Latest / Vox Novus with Victor Fuhrman / Caroline Dowd-Higgins

Transcript

Caroline Dowd-Higgins · Vox Novus with Victor Fuhrman

0:05
Speaker 1: Vox Novus, The New Voice, Vox Novus, the New Dimension,
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Speaker 1: Vox Novus thought and movement leaders who will share from
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Speaker 1: their experience and offer tools to help us navigate our
0:23
Speaker 1: rapidly changing world. My name is Victor Furman. Welcome to
0:28
Speaker 1: vox Novus The New Voice. What would it mean to
0:41
Speaker 1: have a professional career coach in an easy to follow
0:45
Speaker 1: and wisdom pack book. My guest this week on vox Novus,
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Speaker 1: Caroline Dowd Higgins, provides invaluable insights on advancing your career
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Speaker 1: and seizing your power, dealing with challenging bosses or colleagues,
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Speaker 1: tackling common career obstacles like overwhelm, exhaustion and burnout, and
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Speaker 1: overcoming imposter syndrome, and building lasting self confidence. Caroline is
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Speaker 1: a career and executive coach, consultant, and speaker who's passionate
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Speaker 1: about helping individuals and organizations navigate change and thrive. She's
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Speaker 1: a certified Leader Shape trans Personal Executive Coach, a Marshall
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Speaker 1: Goldsmith Stakeholder Centered Executive Coach, and a Gallop Strengths Coach.
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Speaker 1: Caroline hosts the award winning podcast Your Working Life and
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Speaker 1: is known for her inspiring ted ex women talk on
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Speaker 1: reframing failure. Her website is Caroline Doowd Higgins dot com
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Speaker 1: and she joins me this week to share her groundbreaking book,
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Speaker 1: Your Career Advantage Overcome Challenges to achieve a rewarding work life.
1:57
Speaker 1: Please join me in welcoming to Vox Novus, Caroline Dowd Higgins.
2:03
Speaker 1: Welcome Caroline.
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Speaker 2: Well, it's lovely to be here, Victor. I'm glad to
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Speaker 2: be with you.
2:07
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us today and taking
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Speaker 1: part in this interview. Caroline. In the preface to your book,
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Speaker 1: you describe your many roles and accomplishments and end the
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Speaker 1: paragraph by saying that you are a recovering workaholic. Please
2:22
Speaker 1: share with our listeners your early path, how it led
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Speaker 1: to your numerous achievements and that ultimate realization.
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Speaker 2: Well, Victor, thank you. I'm delighted to be able to
2:32
Speaker 2: share this story with your lovely audience. So it's important
2:35
Speaker 2: for this audience to know that I started my career
2:38
Speaker 2: as a professional opera singer, and that was actually a
2:41
Speaker 2: great passion of mine ever since I was a young child.
2:44
Speaker 2: I began singing and then I trained and had a
2:47
Speaker 2: wonderful experience traveling Europe singing and also doing some work
2:51
Speaker 2: in the United States, and it was really my dream
2:54
Speaker 2: career until it wasn't. And I say that with sincerity
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Speaker 2: and vulnerability, because things change. And while I loved the
3:03
Speaker 2: work while I had it, the feast to famine existence
3:07
Speaker 2: of a performing artist was really frustrating for me, not
3:11
Speaker 2: having that consistency in work and really not earning where
3:15
Speaker 2: I wanted to be. So I pivoted and I actually
3:19
Speaker 2: worked with a career coach, which helped me find my
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Speaker 2: second act career. And here I am now as a
3:26
Speaker 2: certified executive coach, a speaker, an author, and a podcaster myself.
3:33
Speaker 1: And that realization about being a workaholic.
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Speaker 2: Yes, well, Victor, I am hardwired to work hard, and
3:40
Speaker 2: I'm really proud of that. There is nothing wrong with that.
3:44
Speaker 2: I have a tremendous work ethic. I come from a
3:48
Speaker 2: family who has instilled in me that incredible work ethic.
3:52
Speaker 2: I have immigrated grandparents who came to this country to
3:55
Speaker 2: find the American dream, and it was very much a
3:57
Speaker 2: part of my DNA to work hard. However, I have
4:01
Speaker 2: since learned that there is a difference in being a
4:04
Speaker 2: high achiever and being an over achiever, and unfortunately, my
4:10
Speaker 2: work became a bit of a work addiction. And when
4:13
Speaker 2: you think about it, we really discourage people from being
4:17
Speaker 2: addicted to anything, whether it's gambling or substance abuse or
4:21
Speaker 2: you know, perpetual spending. We try to help those folks
4:24
Speaker 2: and give them a lifeline. But sadly, in the world
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Speaker 2: of work, we often celebrate over work. She's burning the
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Speaker 2: candle at both ends. She's a workhorse, she has this
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Speaker 2: tremendous focus and commitment to her work. I heard that
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Speaker 2: a lot, and I adopted it as a badge of honor.
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Speaker 2: And that's where things got tricky, because I burned out.
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Speaker 1: Absolutely in my forty four year professional career. In the
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Speaker 1: day job, in the workplace, I never had an employer
4:55
Speaker 1: say to me, why don't you go home, you're working
4:57
Speaker 1: too never heard those words exactly.
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Speaker 2: And Victor, I don't know if this is relatable to you,
5:03
Speaker 2: but and I'm certainly not blaming or shaming anyone else.
5:06
Speaker 2: I take full responsibility for my workaholism. It was something
5:10
Speaker 2: that I ignored for a very long time, and I
5:12
Speaker 2: own that the accountability is mine. But I will say
5:15
Speaker 2: there's a vulnerability for people like me who rise to
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Speaker 2: the challenge and love the work so much that often
5:24
Speaker 2: we can be exploited in the world of work. You know.
5:26
Speaker 2: I remember a former boss used to say, I've got
5:29
Speaker 2: a challenge for you, and like a Pavlovian dog, you know,
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Speaker 2: my heart would race and I would get excited and
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Speaker 2: I would say, yes, bring it on. And again, I
5:39
Speaker 2: am responsible for my own actions. But there's no doubt
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Speaker 2: that in the world of work, across industries, we celebrate
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Speaker 2: over work and often we think that is just a
5:50
Speaker 2: wonderful thing that more people should do.
5:53
Speaker 1: And you have the pusher in a suit and tie.
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Speaker 2: Yes, exactly right, exactly right.
5:58
Speaker 1: In your book Your Career Advantage, you address various career challenges.
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Speaker 1: What motivated you to write this book and how can
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Speaker 1: it help professionals overcome these challenges?
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Speaker 2: Yeah, Victor, this book is my third book, and it's
6:13
Speaker 2: such a labor of love because it came during a
6:16
Speaker 2: very interesting time that we all experienced during the global pandemic.
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Speaker 2: In my scenario, I was lucky enough to be in
6:25
Speaker 2: the knowledge industry where I had the luxury of working
6:27
Speaker 2: from home, and I want to honor all of our
6:29
Speaker 2: frontline workers who didn't always have that ability, but I
6:33
Speaker 2: will tell you so many of us had to pivot
6:36
Speaker 2: out of necessity to work from home, and it was
6:39
Speaker 2: a difficult time for so many reasons. And of course
6:43
Speaker 2: the pandemic itself was traumatic in so many ways. But
6:46
Speaker 2: I was watching from afar virtually digitally people that were
6:51
Speaker 2: really struggling, myself included with so many things. And I'm
6:55
Speaker 2: an avid writer and I certainly love LinkedIn as a
7:00
Speaker 2: vehicle to share content and learn, and I was watching
7:04
Speaker 2: people really spiraling and struggling during the pandemic, and I
7:08
Speaker 2: created a LinkedIn newsletter and it really exploded. And I
7:13
Speaker 2: say that with humility. It was a wonderful opportunity for
7:16
Speaker 2: me as an executive coach to reach out and help
7:20
Speaker 2: people solve these scenarios that were very familiar and very common.
7:24
Speaker 2: So your career advantage was birthed from many of these
7:29
Speaker 2: essays and articles that I started writing during the pandemic
7:33
Speaker 2: as a response to people who were struggling. So it
7:36
Speaker 2: was a wonderful solution for scenarios that so many of
7:40
Speaker 2: us experienced.
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Speaker 1: Doctor Marshall Goldsmith, a top executive coach, endorsed your book.
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Speaker 1: Can you share some key takeaways from his endorsement.
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Speaker 2: Yes, I love Marshall. He has been such an influencer
7:53
Speaker 2: in my life. I went through his executive Coach training,
7:57
Speaker 2: among many other trainings that I have certifications in, and
8:00
Speaker 2: Marshall has been a mentor to me and just hundreds
8:03
Speaker 2: of others around the world. But I've learned so much
8:06
Speaker 2: from him, and I think one of the most important
8:08
Speaker 2: messages that really sticks with me is have a vibrant
8:11
Speaker 2: life as well as a career. I have an incredible
8:15
Speaker 2: work ethic, but I learned that I needed a life
8:18
Speaker 2: ethic and Marshall is certainly a proponent of that. And
8:22
Speaker 2: another little anecdote, Victor Marshall talks about how we give
8:26
Speaker 2: feedback and we think about historically what has gone wrong.
8:30
Speaker 2: So he has reframed that word to call it feed forward.
8:34
Speaker 2: How can we look at what we have done in
8:36
Speaker 2: the past and reframe it and redesign it to think
8:41
Speaker 2: about how we will do it differently and better moving forward.
8:44
Speaker 2: So I tend to use the word feed forward in
8:48
Speaker 2: honor of Marshall.
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Speaker 1: Wonderful a very positive approach too. That's something that you
8:52
Speaker 1: rarely hears. Yeah, absolutely, you've touched upon this. How do
8:57
Speaker 1: you balance the need for careers access with the importance
9:01
Speaker 1: of a fulfilling personal life, and how does your book
9:05
Speaker 1: guide readers in the balance?
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Speaker 2: Yes, you know, Victor, it is a fine line and
9:09
Speaker 2: everybody's different. And I'll be the first to tell you
9:12
Speaker 2: I'm incredibly ambitious and even though I'm a recovering workaholic,
9:16
Speaker 2: I am enjoying life as well as career. I can't
9:19
Speaker 2: tell you how many vacations I've gone on. And I
9:21
Speaker 2: know we're audio only today on the podcast, so you
9:24
Speaker 2: can't see my air quotes, but vacation for me was
9:28
Speaker 2: another place to do my work, which is not a
9:31
Speaker 2: vacation at all. So I finally come to terms with
9:34
Speaker 2: the fact that we need rest, we need pause, we
9:38
Speaker 2: need time to play, and we also need during our
9:42
Speaker 2: work day or work evening, whatever that looks like for
9:45
Speaker 2: the individuals listening, to have time to do the work.
9:49
Speaker 2: So I think it's a beautiful hybrid of working hard
9:52
Speaker 2: but also enjoying your life, because what is it all for.
9:56
Speaker 2: And I've seen so many people debilitate to the point
9:59
Speaker 2: that they became very sick or had emotional distress because
10:04
Speaker 2: of the overwhelm at work. And I really think this
10:08
Speaker 2: American phenomenon needs to be changed or our world of
10:12
Speaker 2: work will not be successful in the future.
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Speaker 1: I'm at the meeting with you, and I'm going to
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Speaker 1: raise my hand and say hello, my name is Victor,
10:20
Speaker 1: and I'm a recovered workaholic, which is true. By the way,
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Speaker 1: what would you share with others who are now dealing
10:26
Speaker 1: with this.
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Speaker 2: Well, thank you for admitting that that means a lot.
10:30
Speaker 2: I think we all have to come out of the
10:31
Speaker 2: proverbial closet to say yes, I'm recovered or I'm in progress.
10:36
Speaker 2: And I don't mean that in a hyperbolic way. And
10:38
Speaker 2: it really does take time because we build muscle memory
10:42
Speaker 2: and we do so many things and they become ingrained
10:44
Speaker 2: in us. But I'll give you an example, Victor, which
10:49
Speaker 2: may be relatable to many of our listeners. You know,
10:53
Speaker 2: I'm not a sportsperson. I'm a theater and an arts person.
10:57
Speaker 2: But I think of elite athletes, whether they're at the
10:59
Speaker 2: LA Olympic level or they're competing professionally, they honor their
11:03
Speaker 2: bodies with rest time so they can be at their
11:07
Speaker 2: physical peak and at their best. And by the way,
11:10
Speaker 2: they've been using coaches for generations. And I'm so delighted
11:14
Speaker 2: to see that coaching is now deeply ensconced in the
11:17
Speaker 2: world of work. But any smart athlete and their coach
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Speaker 2: will say that rest and recovery time will empower you
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Speaker 2: to be your very best when it comes time for
11:29
Speaker 2: competition or competitive play. And we need to infuse that
11:33
Speaker 2: philosophy in the world of work as well. Rest is
11:37
Speaker 2: not a weakness, it's a way to really honor your mind,
11:40
Speaker 2: body and spirit so you can be at your very best.
11:44
Speaker 2: And I also believe that we should be enjoying our lives.
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Speaker 2: Our lives. Excuse me, and I will say when I
11:51
Speaker 2: was at the peak of my burnout, as much as
11:53
Speaker 2: I love to work, I wasn't enjoying it in the
11:56
Speaker 2: same way.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, and how about the affairs workoholism on personal relationships?
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Speaker 2: Oh, it's terrible. You know, my beloved husband is so
12:06
Speaker 2: incredibly patient, and gosh, if I was him, I would
12:09
Speaker 2: have been absolutely furious if you know, I was responding
12:12
Speaker 2: to me who was constantly working. It's not fair to
12:16
Speaker 2: those we love. It's absolutely not And here's what I've learned, Victor.
12:20
Speaker 2: It's not necessary. You know, I look at my sister,
12:23
Speaker 2: who is an incredible executive in her organization, and she
12:27
Speaker 2: has a wonderful work ethic, but she also knows boundaries,
12:31
Speaker 2: and she has earned promotions and bonuses and continued to
12:35
Speaker 2: rise in her organization while still setting boundaries. So I
12:40
Speaker 2: think the fallacy that I had for so many years
12:43
Speaker 2: was if I don't overwork, I'm not going to be
12:47
Speaker 2: seen as dispensable or indispensable rather or as a value
12:51
Speaker 2: add And I don't believe that's true anymore. We can
12:54
Speaker 2: still do extraordinary work and go home and have an
12:58
Speaker 2: extraordinary life. It doesn't have to be one or the other.
13:01
Speaker 1: Absolutely. I wrote a poem called the Healing Power of No,
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Speaker 1: and the word no, when used properly and with dignity
13:09
Speaker 1: and respect, is a very powerful word.
13:12
Speaker 2: I agree, and I'll add to that victor. It's also
13:15
Speaker 2: a complete sentence with punctuation, whether it's a mat or
13:18
Speaker 2: an exclamation point. And I think often we apologize our
13:22
Speaker 2: way to knows and give excuses about why we're saying no.
13:26
Speaker 2: And I encourage everyone listening. No can be a complete sentence.
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Speaker 1: Absolutely. Impostor syndrome is a common issue. Please define this
13:38
Speaker 1: and what strategies can professionals employ to overcome it? And
13:42
Speaker 1: gain self confidence.
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Speaker 2: Victor. I work with a lot of women in my
13:47
Speaker 2: executive coaching practice. I certainly work with men as well,
13:49
Speaker 2: but I find that imposter syndrome is more prominent with women,
13:55
Speaker 2: and there's some interesting data to back that up. But
13:58
Speaker 2: the data also tells us that eighty percent of people
14:01
Speaker 2: experience imposter syndrome. Now they might not all recognize it
14:05
Speaker 2: or admit it, but they're experiencing it, and very simplistically,
14:09
Speaker 2: it's self doubt or feeling like we're not ready or
14:12
Speaker 2: prepared to do something. And the truth is self doubt
14:15
Speaker 2: is normal, there's nothing wrong with that, but the impost
14:19
Speaker 2: syndrome can be gnawing and debilitating, and it can often
14:22
Speaker 2: prevent us from doing things or from taking on a
14:25
Speaker 2: new risk or an opportunity because we don't think that
14:28
Speaker 2: we're one hundred percent ready. But I really believe, and
14:32
Speaker 2: my thinking has shifted a bit since writing the book,
14:36
Speaker 2: that the media is giving too much airtime to imposter syndrome.
14:40
Speaker 2: It's become such a household term that I think people
14:44
Speaker 2: are obsessed with this term. I think we need to
14:48
Speaker 2: have the confidence to say we can learn, we can improve,
14:52
Speaker 2: so I might not be ready yet and yet is
14:55
Speaker 2: the operative word for this new opportunity. And I can learn,
15:00
Speaker 2: I can try, I can grow. So giving yourself permission
15:05
Speaker 2: to say I can figure this out. I might not
15:09
Speaker 2: know it now, and I'm ready to put in the
15:12
Speaker 2: time to figure out how to do this is the
15:15
Speaker 2: best way to combat imposter syndrome.
15:18
Speaker 1: What would the proper supervisor say to someone who is
15:21
Speaker 1: manifesting imposter syndrome?
15:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would acknowledge them and say thank you for
15:26
Speaker 2: your honesty. Let's work through this. Let's first of all,
15:31
Speaker 2: think about things that you do well to validate and
15:34
Speaker 2: honor your success. And again that's not hyperbolic. Let's look
15:38
Speaker 2: at the facts. Let's look at the things that you've
15:40
Speaker 2: done extraordinarily well, so you can take stock of that
15:43
Speaker 2: and re engage with your self confidence. And if there's
15:47
Speaker 2: something that you were concerned about, let's power through it.
15:51
Speaker 2: How can you learn? How can you gain the resources
15:54
Speaker 2: and the knowledge and the experience so you feel confident
15:57
Speaker 2: to pursue that. I truly believe that we can all fail,
16:02
Speaker 2: but we can fail forward and learn from those mistakes
16:06
Speaker 2: or those hiccups. You know, there's that famous quote, you
16:09
Speaker 2: miss all the shots that you don't take, and imposter
16:13
Speaker 2: syndrome can often prevent us from taking those shots that
16:16
Speaker 2: we don't think that we're completely ready for, and I
16:20
Speaker 2: think that's really sad. It's worth taking the shot, even
16:23
Speaker 2: if you don't make the basket. I'm not sure why
16:25
Speaker 2: I'm in the sports metaphor today, but there we are.
16:30
Speaker 1: And to that point, you share that we should honor
16:33
Speaker 1: our strengths. How may we embody this?
16:36
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, Victor, this is where I get really
16:39
Speaker 2: nerdy and geeky, and I absolutely love it. You know,
16:41
Speaker 2: there's something so gratifying for me as a coach working
16:44
Speaker 2: with individuals and teams to empower them to help discover
16:49
Speaker 2: or unleash their strengths, which really unleashes their potential. And
16:54
Speaker 2: one of the tools that I used. I'm a certified
16:56
Speaker 2: Gallop Strengths coach, and I find that tool Strengths, the
17:00
Speaker 2: clipt and Strengths so empowering because it focuses on what
17:04
Speaker 2: we already do well, what we innately do well, and
17:08
Speaker 2: then it's our opportunity to take that to the next
17:11
Speaker 2: level and make it expert or superpower. And every single
17:15
Speaker 2: one of us have innate strengths and talents and recognizing
17:20
Speaker 2: that and building upon that is such a smart strategy. So,
17:24
Speaker 2: for example, Victor, if you or I or others listening
17:27
Speaker 2: have ever been in a role where we were constantly
17:30
Speaker 2: getting feedback, you need to improve upon this. This is
17:33
Speaker 2: a weakness. You're not doing this well. I believe that
17:37
Speaker 2: you or me may have been in the wrong role.
17:41
Speaker 2: And I always encourage people find roles that allow you
17:44
Speaker 2: to play to your strengths and of course provide opportunity
17:48
Speaker 2: for growth. But if you're constantly asked to fix things
17:52
Speaker 2: and improve upon a weakness, chances are you're not in
17:56
Speaker 2: the right role.
17:58
Speaker 1: Absolutely. One of the things that I to do in business,
18:01
Speaker 1: I would work with salespeople and I would give them
18:04
Speaker 1: an example and say, a customer comes to you, for example,
18:07
Speaker 1: and asks you for a drill bit. What does the
18:09
Speaker 1: customer really want? And they'd look at me and you know,
18:12
Speaker 1: question it, and I'd say, they want to make a hole.
18:14
Speaker 1: And I said, if they want to make a whole,
18:16
Speaker 1: what other things do they need? They need a lubricant,
18:18
Speaker 1: they need eye protection, they need gloves, all of these
18:21
Speaker 1: things that could build the sale and so on. And
18:24
Speaker 1: then I'd say to the salespeople, what do you really want?
18:26
Speaker 1: And they would look with ridicule at me, like what
18:29
Speaker 1: are you asking me? And I say, what do you
18:31
Speaker 1: really want? If you didn't work in this position that
18:33
Speaker 1: you're in right now, what would you really like to do?
18:35
Speaker 1: And I think that's the question we often have to
18:37
Speaker 1: ask ourselves when we're in a position that doesn't satisfy us.
18:41
Speaker 2: I agree, and Victor, I'll take that a step further.
18:44
Speaker 2: You know, the busyness of life can be so overwhelming.
18:49
Speaker 2: I know there are parents out there, there are folks
18:51
Speaker 2: taking care of elderly parents or loved ones who have
18:55
Speaker 2: difficult circumstances. Stress is real for everybody, But we say badly,
19:00
Speaker 2: don't give ourselves the pause, the reflection time on a
19:05
Speaker 2: regular cadence to really think, Am I happy? Am I
19:08
Speaker 2: doing what I love? Do I have what I need?
19:11
Speaker 2: And I encourage people to think about a periodic time
19:14
Speaker 2: and maybe it's just a few minutes every few weeks
19:17
Speaker 2: or every few months, where you can give yourself that
19:20
Speaker 2: reflection time to really consider, am I doing what I
19:24
Speaker 2: need to be doing? Am I in the right place,
19:27
Speaker 2: Am I in the right role? And if not, what's missing?
19:31
Speaker 2: So that pause that reflection, whether it's journaling or working
19:35
Speaker 2: with a mentor or a coach or someone that you trust,
19:38
Speaker 2: is so important. Otherwise, the momentum of life just carries
19:42
Speaker 2: us away and before you know it, you look up
19:45
Speaker 2: in years have gone by.
19:47
Speaker 1: And let's put the glove. On the other hand, you
19:49
Speaker 1: have the effective manager or supervisor who recognizes that someone
19:54
Speaker 1: working for them is not honoring their strength. How do
19:57
Speaker 1: you address that person?
19:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I think it's a really savvy manager and
20:01
Speaker 2: leader and supervisor that is keenly aware of the individual's talents,
20:07
Speaker 2: and I would encourage them, whether you're using a formal
20:09
Speaker 2: assessant like Clift and Strengths, or you're having those conversations
20:13
Speaker 2: to learn what that individual self identifies as their strength.
20:17
Speaker 2: Having those regular check ins, I think it's really important.
20:21
Speaker 2: You know. Sadly, in the world of work, we often
20:23
Speaker 2: rely on those performance evaluations that come once a year
20:26
Speaker 2: if we're lucky. So many times I've worked in organizations
20:29
Speaker 2: where they didn't do a performance evaluation at all. So
20:32
Speaker 2: my hope is that the leaders and the managers listening
20:36
Speaker 2: have more regular check ins to have those conversations what's working,
20:41
Speaker 2: what's not, and what's next, And certainly part of that
20:46
Speaker 2: revolves around strengths.
20:47
Speaker 1: And you have that leader who is wonderful and a
20:51
Speaker 1: truly an observant person and someone who really cares about
20:54
Speaker 1: the people that work for him, recognizes that a person's
20:57
Speaker 1: strengths really don't fit into that department. But else, what
21:00
Speaker 1: do you do?
21:01
Speaker 2: Yeah, well that's brilliant. You know. I'd like to think
21:03
Speaker 2: of it as the company puzzle, and the puzzle piece
21:06
Speaker 2: might not fit on this team. But if this is
21:09
Speaker 2: an extraordinarily talented person with a great attitude and someone
21:13
Speaker 2: that you want to retain, absolutely see where you can
21:16
Speaker 2: plug them in. And you can start with some job
21:20
Speaker 2: shadowing on other teams or networking with other people. It
21:24
Speaker 2: doesn't have to be difficult, right give them an opportunity
21:28
Speaker 2: to investigate where else they might be a good fit.
21:31
Speaker 2: That's the best case scenario in retaining that talent. And
21:34
Speaker 2: if not, why be free. You know, let them have
21:37
Speaker 2: an opportunity to leave with a great reference. And I'm
21:41
Speaker 2: not saying you can you should fire them necessarily, but
21:44
Speaker 2: have that honest conversation about where they can do their
21:47
Speaker 2: best work that honors their strengths. I think that kind
21:51
Speaker 2: of a mutually beneficial conversation is good for everybody, and
21:56
Speaker 2: it's certainly boost morale and confidence and trust.
22:00
Speaker 1: Absolutely. We had talked about the power of the word no,
22:04
Speaker 1: and that no was a complete sentence, and I had
22:06
Speaker 1: mentioned I had written a poem about that. May I
22:08
Speaker 1: share that with you?
22:09
Speaker 2: Please? Please?
22:10
Speaker 1: It's called the healing power of No. A time comes
22:14
Speaker 1: for choosing rather than losing, the essence that makes us
22:18
Speaker 1: so and in the bestowing. There's power in knowing the
22:22
Speaker 1: freedom that comes with no, when said with compassion, not angry,
22:27
Speaker 1: in fashion and letting the self love flow. There's a
22:31
Speaker 1: sense of renewing and a deep soul imbuing the awareness
22:35
Speaker 1: that comes with no. So with gentle voice and the
22:39
Speaker 1: power of choice and the courage to make it so,
22:43
Speaker 1: I'm still here, my friends. There's no means in this end,
22:47
Speaker 1: just the healing that comes with no.
22:50
Speaker 2: Oh that's beautiful, Victor, thank you.
22:53
Speaker 1: Thank you very much. My guest Caroline Dowd Higgins. Her book,
22:57
Speaker 1: Your Career Advantage Overcome Challenge is to achieve a rewarding
23:01
Speaker 1: work life. Caroline, please share with our listeners where they
23:04
Speaker 1: can get all of your books, find out more about
23:06
Speaker 1: you and your website.
23:08
Speaker 2: Thank you, Victor. The mothership is my website, which is
23:11
Speaker 2: Carolindowd Higgins dot com all smushed together, so my last
23:16
Speaker 2: name is hyphenated, but Caroline Dowd Higgins dot com is not,
23:20
Speaker 2: and you would find all of my information about my books,
23:24
Speaker 2: my speaking, my consulting work, my coaching, and my podcast.
23:28
Speaker 2: So that's the best place to find me. And of
23:30
Speaker 2: course I'm very active on LinkedIn as well.
23:33
Speaker 1: Tell us more about your podcast, Oh.
23:35
Speaker 2: My goodness, my podcast is called Your Working Life, And
23:39
Speaker 2: like you, it's a great joy to talk with experts
23:41
Speaker 2: around the world who have interesting information and vital information
23:46
Speaker 2: to share with my global audience. I believe that it's
23:49
Speaker 2: a great honor and a joy for me to share
23:52
Speaker 2: resources with other people as they navigate the world of
23:56
Speaker 2: work and their lives.
23:58
Speaker 1: And we'll be back with more of Caroline after these words.
24:01
Speaker 1: On the own Times Radio.
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Speaker 3: Network, the best of the holistic, spiritual and conscious world
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26:05
Speaker 1: Council back on Vox Novus. My guest this week Caroline
26:11
Speaker 1: Dowd Higgins her book Your Career Advantage Overcome Challenges to
26:17
Speaker 1: achieve a rewarding work life. Caroline, can you share an
26:21
Speaker 1: example of a success story from someone who applied the
26:25
Speaker 1: principles from your book to their career.
26:28
Speaker 2: Yes, Oh, my goodness, it's such a joy to hear
26:32
Speaker 2: or to actually experience these success stories. So, you know,
26:36
Speaker 2: a lot of my focus right now is to help
26:37
Speaker 2: people navigate the burnout treadmill and get off of it safely,
26:42
Speaker 2: and certainly I have a personal stake in that game
26:46
Speaker 2: as well. So yes, one of my clients. I'll change
26:49
Speaker 2: her name to honor her privacy. Let's call her Sue
26:52
Speaker 2: for this lovely conversation. Has been overworking for many, many years,
26:59
Speaker 2: and her health really started to debilitate, and sadly, Sue
27:03
Speaker 2: had a cardiac episode. It was a mild heart attack. Thankfully,
27:08
Speaker 2: she is alive today. She has a pacemaker and is
27:12
Speaker 2: really focusing on her life and her career. But she
27:17
Speaker 2: had a very frank conversation with her boss and she said,
27:20
Speaker 2: this role is literally impacting my health and it could
27:25
Speaker 2: kill me if I keep over working. And to our
27:28
Speaker 2: great delight, her boss, who is the CEO of the organization,
27:33
Speaker 2: really responded to her with respect and dignity and said,
27:37
Speaker 2: let's do whatever we can to make this work for you.
27:41
Speaker 2: I want you to be healthy, I want you to
27:43
Speaker 2: be successful, and I don't want you to leave. So
27:47
Speaker 2: it was a mutually beneficial opportunity for them to design
27:50
Speaker 2: a work schedule that honored productivity and not overwork and burnout.
27:56
Speaker 2: But the happy ending victor is that Sue is thriving
28:00
Speaker 2: in life and career. She's working forty hours a week
28:04
Speaker 2: and she's taking breaks and she's taking her PTO and
28:07
Speaker 2: these are actual vacations, she's not tethered to a phone
28:10
Speaker 2: or a laptop. But her courage has actually inspired other
28:15
Speaker 2: over workers in the organization, including the CEO, to take
28:19
Speaker 2: different measures to ensure her health and well being. So
28:24
Speaker 2: I'm so grateful for the ripple effect there and the
28:27
Speaker 2: courage that Sue had, and sadly the wake up call
28:31
Speaker 2: of the cardiac scenario that really helped her understand this
28:36
Speaker 2: is a matter of life and death.
28:40
Speaker 1: Many professionals struggle with challenging bosses or colleagues. What advice
28:46
Speaker 1: do you offer for effectively navigating these situations.
28:49
Speaker 2: Yeah, you've probably heard the adage that people don't leave organizations,
28:53
Speaker 2: they leave bad bosses, and that's very true in many
28:56
Speaker 2: many situations. So communication is almost always the rub with
29:01
Speaker 2: a bad boss. Now, let me be the first to say,
29:03
Speaker 2: if your boss is treating you inappropriately, if there's egregious
29:09
Speaker 2: behavior or harassment, get out right, get out quickly. Do
29:13
Speaker 2: not ever put yourself in an unsafe environment. Report to
29:17
Speaker 2: the authorities, go to HR, do whatever you can that's imperative.
29:21
Speaker 2: But if your boss is just a tricky, complicated person
29:24
Speaker 2: who's mean or doesn't listen or is a very difficult personality,
29:29
Speaker 2: there may be things to consider to improve that relationship.
29:33
Speaker 2: And I would say the first thing is to have
29:35
Speaker 2: a conversation, get to know each other and have a
29:38
Speaker 2: very frank conversation. And I often start with four very
29:42
Speaker 2: simple questions that I call the best of me, and
29:46
Speaker 2: I will sit down with that boss and say, here's
29:49
Speaker 2: what I need from you. You get the best of
29:52
Speaker 2: me when dot dot dot, and I will share what
29:55
Speaker 2: that looks like for me. But I will also ask
29:58
Speaker 2: the boss, what does that mean to you? So we
30:01
Speaker 2: have a two way street of conversation because we can't
30:05
Speaker 2: mind read and often bosses and direct reports don't communicate well.
30:10
Speaker 2: The second question is you get the worst of me
30:13
Speaker 2: or a statement I should say, And that's important too.
30:16
Speaker 2: You know, I had a boss that would often do
30:19
Speaker 2: what I called the drive buys. Now it wasn't literal.
30:21
Speaker 2: He would just, you know, come by my office on foot.
30:25
Speaker 2: He wasn't driving, but he would dump this brain dump
30:29
Speaker 2: of ideation and brainstorm on me and I wouldn't know
30:33
Speaker 2: should I act on this or is he just wanting
30:36
Speaker 2: a sounding board. So once we could come to terms
30:39
Speaker 2: with the fact of He just loved to share ideas
30:42
Speaker 2: and not all of them were directives for me. We
30:45
Speaker 2: had a much better relationship. The third question is here's
30:49
Speaker 2: what I need from you, And it might be I
30:52
Speaker 2: need preparation time, I need scheduled appointments, or I need
30:55
Speaker 2: more one on one time. And again it's not one
30:59
Speaker 2: way your boss need from you. And then the fourth
31:02
Speaker 2: statement is how can I help you be successful in
31:07
Speaker 2: this role? And I think it's very important for your
31:09
Speaker 2: listeners victor to understand that is a question for both.
31:13
Speaker 2: So I would ask the boss that, and the boss
31:16
Speaker 2: can ask the direct report. Because our job for our
31:21
Speaker 2: direct reports and for our leaders is to help them
31:24
Speaker 2: do their very best work.
31:26
Speaker 1: And we have those who are intimidated by those challenging
31:30
Speaker 1: bosses or colleagues. How may we speak truthfully and respectfully
31:35
Speaker 1: to supervisors and senior managers.
31:38
Speaker 2: That's tough. I mean, there's no doubt about it. It
31:40
Speaker 2: sounds simple to have that open line of communication, but
31:43
Speaker 2: intimidation and retaliation are real. I would crowdsource a little
31:48
Speaker 2: bit and find out what other people have been successful
31:51
Speaker 2: at when communicating. And I often say it takes time
31:55
Speaker 2: to learn how to speak your bosses language. You know,
31:58
Speaker 2: they have a certain personality traits, they have idiosyncrasies, they
32:02
Speaker 2: have tics. We all do. We're human, So learning what
32:06
Speaker 2: their signals are. But I also think the power of asking. So,
32:10
Speaker 2: for example, is your boss a phone talker or does
32:14
Speaker 2: she prefer a text or a Slack message? Does she
32:18
Speaker 2: prefer email or in person communication? You know, we can't
32:22
Speaker 2: mind read these. And the more you learn to speak
32:25
Speaker 2: her language in this hypothetical situation, the better.
32:29
Speaker 1: And what do you say to the person who says,
32:31
Speaker 1: I may not always be right, but I'm never wrong.
32:35
Speaker 2: Well, I think we all need a dose of humanity.
32:38
Speaker 2: I think we all can be wrong, and I get it.
32:40
Speaker 2: There are big egos out there, and part of that
32:43
Speaker 2: is learning how to own your power. So there is
32:46
Speaker 2: not an uneven power dynamic. And I'll say, very candidly, Victor,
32:51
Speaker 2: if the boss direct report relationship is so bad that
32:56
Speaker 2: it doesn't allow you to do your best work, it's
32:59
Speaker 2: worth considering is this a place where I really want
33:02
Speaker 2: to be? Now, not every boss lasts long term, so
33:06
Speaker 2: you really need to suss out the scenario and figure
33:09
Speaker 2: out is this boss here for a good long time
33:12
Speaker 2: or are they you know, somebody that's not going to
33:15
Speaker 2: stick around. But I'll tell you learning how to communicate
33:18
Speaker 2: with your boss is essential. But if that boss is
33:21
Speaker 2: giving you stress that is debilitating, you really need to
33:25
Speaker 2: question again, is this a place where I can do
33:28
Speaker 2: my best work.
33:30
Speaker 1: One of the techniques that you share in your career
33:33
Speaker 1: advantage is to interview your prospective boss. What questions should
33:39
Speaker 1: be asked in this regard and how does this determine
33:41
Speaker 1: you should so to speak hire the boss?
33:44
Speaker 2: Oh, I'm so glad you asked this. You know so
33:46
Speaker 2: often people go through the interview process and they're only
33:49
Speaker 2: thinking one way. How can I impress this organization. It's
33:53
Speaker 2: your interview as well as the candidate. And when you
33:56
Speaker 2: get to a point where an offer is imminent or
33:59
Speaker 2: you have an offer, I always encourage every candidate with
34:03
Speaker 2: whom I work to have a one on one with
34:06
Speaker 2: their prospective boss. Sometimes you don't get much airtime with
34:10
Speaker 2: that individual, especially in the executive levels, because they're so
34:14
Speaker 2: overscheduled and doing so much, But it's imperative. Is this
34:18
Speaker 2: a person that I can relate to? And I have
34:20
Speaker 2: a whole series of questions in the book asking about
34:24
Speaker 2: their training style, their coaching, style, their communication style and
34:29
Speaker 2: what you need to be a successful partnership. And I
34:33
Speaker 2: can't stress enough how important it is for you to
34:36
Speaker 2: determine is this the person that I can do my
34:40
Speaker 2: best work with? And if that is not a question
34:44
Speaker 2: you can answer in the affirmative, I would be very
34:47
Speaker 2: discerning about whether or not that's the right role for you.
34:51
Speaker 1: And in my experience I can relate to you that
34:54
Speaker 1: in the process of me hiring people to work for
34:56
Speaker 1: the company that I was working for, I was very
34:59
Speaker 1: impressed when I was asked questions of that nature.
35:01
Speaker 2: Absolutely, you know, and people don't do it enough. And
35:04
Speaker 2: I think, why would you ever go into an organization
35:07
Speaker 2: blind without having that airtime with your boss? Again, such
35:13
Speaker 2: a simple thing, And as you were, most of those
35:16
Speaker 2: bosses are incredibly impressed that you're asking.
35:19
Speaker 1: I worked for an organization for many years where my
35:23
Speaker 1: initial employer was the founder of the company and many
35:27
Speaker 1: years later his son succeeded him. Without going into details,
35:31
Speaker 1: there was a vast difference between the father and the son,
35:34
Speaker 1: leading me to eventually leave the company. How do we
35:37
Speaker 1: cope with generational changes in the leadership?
35:40
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it's so interesting because we've got five
35:43
Speaker 2: generations in the workforce right so our youngest, our Gen
35:48
Speaker 2: Z professionals, and the college graduates. They're the late teens
35:53
Speaker 2: and early twenties. Then, of course we've got our millennials
35:56
Speaker 2: who are approaching their forties right now, many of them
35:59
Speaker 2: are in their forties. I'm squarely in Gen X. And
36:02
Speaker 2: then our baby boomers, some of them are still working.
36:04
Speaker 2: And there are some folks in the Great Generation older
36:07
Speaker 2: than our Baby boomers who are in an advisory capacity.
36:11
Speaker 2: And our Gen Alpha and the Betas, who are just
36:15
Speaker 2: babies right now are coming along and growing and will
36:20
Speaker 2: enter the workforce in about a decade or so. So
36:23
Speaker 2: we will always have a multi generational workforce. And I
36:26
Speaker 2: think we need to learn. You know, it's so easy
36:29
Speaker 2: to say, gosh, those young folks, you know, they've got
36:32
Speaker 2: such a different set of values and ideas. Yes, they do,
36:35
Speaker 2: and I think we need to learn how to work
36:37
Speaker 2: harmoniously together. So I'll give you an example. As a
36:41
Speaker 2: Gen xer, I never really thought about work life balance
36:44
Speaker 2: because my role models were baby boomers. And I'm not
36:47
Speaker 2: saying anything negative about them. They were grooming me and
36:51
Speaker 2: developing me. And I'm deeply grateful for that, but work
36:54
Speaker 2: ethic was very different, and happily, the younger generations are
36:59
Speaker 2: really stressing work life integration. They want to have a
37:03
Speaker 2: life and a career and for that, I'm grateful that
37:06
Speaker 2: helped me get off the workaholic treadmill. So I believe
37:11
Speaker 2: we can coexist. We need to listen more and talk
37:14
Speaker 2: less and learn about our colleagues.
37:18
Speaker 1: When do you know that it's time to go?
37:21
Speaker 2: M Yeah, so I often talk about the Sunday night blues. Right,
37:25
Speaker 2: we are recording this on a Sunday afternoon, and many
37:29
Speaker 2: people maybe getting that pit in the bottom of their stomach,
37:32
Speaker 2: thinking Tomorrow's Monday, Tomorrow's a workday. If you perpetually have
37:37
Speaker 2: that pit in your stomach on Sunday night, not just
37:40
Speaker 2: because you're tired, you're sad to see the weekend come
37:42
Speaker 2: to a close, but because you dread work, then you
37:45
Speaker 2: really need to think is this where I want to
37:47
Speaker 2: spend my time? I mean, think Victor about how much
37:51
Speaker 2: time in our lives we spend at work. Is it fulfilling?
37:55
Speaker 2: Is it gratifying? Is it challenging? Is it stimulating? Am
37:59
Speaker 2: I earning but I deserve with compensation and benefits? So
38:04
Speaker 2: we need to do some serious self reflection. I have
38:06
Speaker 2: a phrase that I coined in my TEDx talk the suckiness,
38:11
Speaker 2: and that's a term I created is real in the
38:14
Speaker 2: world of work, but the suffering is optional. So if
38:19
Speaker 2: you are constantly suffering in your organization for whatever reason,
38:23
Speaker 2: that's a good question and an opportunity for you to
38:26
Speaker 2: determine is this the place where I want to be?
38:31
Speaker 1: And how do you prepare to make that departure?
38:34
Speaker 2: Well, I believe that this work world, that the marketplace
38:40
Speaker 2: is robust enough that most people will find another role
38:44
Speaker 2: before they leave. It connects them financially, keeps their benefits intact.
38:49
Speaker 2: But as I said earlier, if you're in a scenario
38:51
Speaker 2: where you're experiencing egregious behavior, or maybe you have the
38:55
Speaker 2: unfortunate downsizing or layoffs that are ubiquitous in this world
39:00
Speaker 2: world of work, mergers, acquisitions, and you find yourself out
39:03
Speaker 2: of work on a schedule that really didn't meet you
39:07
Speaker 2: where you need it to be, that's okay. It's important
39:10
Speaker 2: to roll up your sleeves and get back into the
39:14
Speaker 2: hunt if you will. But I think it gives you
39:16
Speaker 2: a chance to pause and really reevaluate what do I
39:19
Speaker 2: want next, so I don't just wash rints and repeat
39:23
Speaker 2: the same scenario.
39:25
Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting I had shared that generational change
39:28
Speaker 1: which led me to leave the company that I was
39:30
Speaker 1: working for. A few moments after I left, the former
39:36
Speaker 1: employer sent an email out to others in the comparable
39:39
Speaker 1: industry notifying them that I had left the company, wishing me,
39:42
Speaker 1: thanking me for my efforts, and wishing me well in
39:44
Speaker 1: the future. Within two hours, I had three offers and
39:47
Speaker 1: they were substantially better with companies that I really had
39:50
Speaker 1: a lot of respect for. So it's not a bad
39:52
Speaker 1: thing to do as long as you are prepared.
39:55
Speaker 2: I agree, And you know, I believe in the concept
39:58
Speaker 2: of networking before you need it. You know, so many
40:01
Speaker 2: people when they lose a job or they leave a job, think, okay,
40:04
Speaker 2: now I have to rally the network. And we need
40:07
Speaker 2: to honor our network and nurture it and steward it
40:10
Speaker 2: all the time and be grateful for it. These individuals
40:14
Speaker 2: with whom we connect. It's not just about gimme, gimme
40:17
Speaker 2: I need your help. I think it's really important to
40:21
Speaker 2: maintain those relationships very generously always, and then you when
40:27
Speaker 2: the time comes where you do need help, people are
40:29
Speaker 2: much more willing to lend a hand, and I believe
40:32
Speaker 2: in the art of paying it forward to help others
40:34
Speaker 2: in need as well.
40:36
Speaker 1: And an expression that my wife used to use, which
40:38
Speaker 1: I thought was very wise, she said, whenever you leave
40:41
Speaker 1: an organization or any place that you work, walk out backwards,
40:45
Speaker 1: meaning do not leave on bad terms. Leave with a
40:48
Speaker 1: smile on your face, leaving open the opportunity to come
40:52
Speaker 1: back and rejoin that organization should the opportunity present itself.
40:56
Speaker 2: Beautifully said and Victor, there's an interesting term. We call
40:59
Speaker 2: them boom rang talent. So many organizations individuals leave because
41:04
Speaker 2: perhaps they've capped out, they've hit a ceiling in their
41:07
Speaker 2: certain department. And I believe it can be great to
41:10
Speaker 2: go someplace else and gain experience, have a new role,
41:15
Speaker 2: perhaps think about a promotion or an advancement, and then
41:19
Speaker 2: the company that you left might just knock back on
41:21
Speaker 2: your door and say, hey, we are delighted to see
41:24
Speaker 2: how you've grown. Might you come back and work for
41:27
Speaker 2: us in the future. So I agree with your wife wholeheartedly.
41:30
Speaker 1: My guest Caroline Bowed Higgins her book Your Career Advantage
41:35
Speaker 1: Overcome Challenges to Achieve a rewarding work life. We'll be
41:39
Speaker 1: back with more after these words on the own Times
41:42
Speaker 1: Radio network.
41:43
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Speaker 8: Healing dot org. Humanity Healing is where your Heart is.
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43:22
Speaker 1: Back on Box Novus. My guest this week Caroline Dowd
43:26
Speaker 1: Higgins her book Your Career Advantage Overcome Challenges to achieve
43:31
Speaker 1: a rewarding work life. Caroline, As a supervisor, what tips
43:36
Speaker 1: do you offer for retaining high performers.
43:40
Speaker 2: Yeah, Victor, that's such an important question. I'm delighted that
43:43
Speaker 2: you asked as a supervisor, as a manager, as a
43:47
Speaker 2: leader of people, we need to get to know our
43:50
Speaker 2: direct reports well and really be empathetic. I said earlier
43:54
Speaker 2: this phrase listen more, talk less. I think it's important
43:59
Speaker 2: to give people a safe space, to create a space
44:02
Speaker 2: of psychological safety where they don't fear retribution. You heard
44:06
Speaker 2: me share earlier. I believe in the concept of failing forward.
44:09
Speaker 2: Now it's not just failing to fail, but we all
44:12
Speaker 2: make mistakes, and not punishing people for those mistakes, but
44:15
Speaker 2: helping them grow through it. There is a phrase that
44:19
Speaker 2: Daniel Pink wrote about many many years ago, and he said,
44:23
Speaker 2: people are happy in their careers if they can achieve autonomy, mastery,
44:29
Speaker 2: and purpose. And I agree with him very much, and
44:32
Speaker 2: I'll unpack that autonomy something that we own at work,
44:35
Speaker 2: a project or a workstream, something that we can take
44:40
Speaker 2: great pride in that we can call our own and
44:43
Speaker 2: our ability to work on that. Of course, you've got
44:46
Speaker 2: other collaborators and people that are weighing in, but the
44:50
Speaker 2: micromanager is not helpful when you're looking for autonomy, mastery,
44:55
Speaker 2: How do we become an expert at something? How do
44:58
Speaker 2: we continue to upscale and learn new things? And purpose?
45:03
Speaker 2: Finding meaning and purpose and belonging at work really impacts
45:07
Speaker 2: engagement and longevity in the organization. And my goodness, we're
45:11
Speaker 2: seeing a revolving door of talent right now. So retention
45:15
Speaker 2: is an issue.
45:17
Speaker 1: Absolutely. I had a wonderful spiritual teacher who used to
45:20
Speaker 1: say there should be an eleventh commandment, thou shalt have purpose?
45:24
Speaker 1: Do you agree with that?
45:25
Speaker 2: I do? That's lovely. Yes, And you know, some people
45:28
Speaker 2: find their purpose at work, some find it in life,
45:31
Speaker 2: some find it in a hybrid mix of both. But yes,
45:34
Speaker 2: I think meaning and purpose is so important. And I
45:37
Speaker 2: see this a lot with people who retire who were
45:40
Speaker 2: so wrapped up in their careers that was their entire identity.
45:43
Speaker 2: My father, who passed away years ago, was one of
45:46
Speaker 2: those folks. I mean, he absolutely loved his career so
45:49
Speaker 2: much that he had a really hard time in retirement
45:52
Speaker 2: trying to find other things that gave him meaning and purpose.
45:56
Speaker 2: So I'm not criticizing him, but I encourage all of
45:59
Speaker 2: us to think about what is meaningful and purposeful in
46:04
Speaker 2: life and career.
46:06
Speaker 1: Absolutely, and our listeners, many of our listeners know that
46:10
Speaker 1: when I retired from my forty four year industrial career
46:14
Speaker 1: that my purpose, my retirement is not part of my vocabulary.
46:17
Speaker 1: I shouldn't say retirement when I left that position, and
46:21
Speaker 1: I had so many other things in my life, and
46:23
Speaker 1: I'm grateful for the fact that every day I wake
46:25
Speaker 1: up and I have a full, purposeful day in front
46:28
Speaker 1: of me. So I'm really grateful for that.
46:30
Speaker 2: Absolutely, And you know, it stimulates our mind, our body,
46:33
Speaker 2: or spirit all the things. It's good for our health
46:35
Speaker 2: and well being as well.
46:36
Speaker 1: Absolutely, burnout is a growing concern in the modern workplace.
46:41
Speaker 1: We had touched upon this a little bit earlier. What
46:43
Speaker 1: steps can readers take to prevent or recover from burnout?
46:48
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, let me preface this by saying burnout is
46:51
Speaker 2: a workplace issue. It's not a self care issue. So
46:55
Speaker 2: a dear friend of mine, Paula Davis, who is the
46:59
Speaker 2: president of this Stress and Resilience Institute, has a wonderful
47:03
Speaker 2: quote that I always attribute to her, and she says,
47:05
Speaker 2: you can't yoga your way out of burnout. And I
47:09
Speaker 2: love that because it reminds us, Look, this isn't about relaxation,
47:15
Speaker 2: It's about overwork and overwhelm. So part of that is
47:19
Speaker 2: again realistically figuring out does my role have too much
47:24
Speaker 2: responsibility for one person and having that frank conversation with
47:28
Speaker 2: your leader. And I find that many organizations do expect
47:33
Speaker 2: unrealistic things from their employees. So having that conversation to
47:38
Speaker 2: ascertain is this workload manageable? And I can't emphasize enough
47:43
Speaker 2: Victor the importance of taking breaks. I firmly believe in
47:47
Speaker 2: the time off and the time away to recharge and rejuvenate.
47:50
Speaker 2: But I also think work breaks during the work day,
47:54
Speaker 2: and I like to follow my circadian rhythm and think
47:57
Speaker 2: about how every ninety minutes I'll get up and strych
48:00
Speaker 2: or walk around or you know, do something, maybe pet
48:04
Speaker 2: the dog, right just to reboot my brain. I work
48:07
Speaker 2: from home, so I have that luxury. But I will
48:10
Speaker 2: say people that are working NonStop for twelve hours, for example,
48:16
Speaker 2: are not productive and they're not doing their best work
48:19
Speaker 2: because their brains aren't sharp. It's not a weakness to
48:23
Speaker 2: take a break and have a realistic work duration.
48:28
Speaker 1: As a follow up, how may we create a work
48:31
Speaker 1: life balance that also keeps us physically and emotionally healthy.
48:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it's so interesting because the word balance
48:39
Speaker 2: had got so much blowback for so many years. But
48:41
Speaker 2: I do think I would redefine it or reframe it
48:45
Speaker 2: and talk about work life fit or work life integration
48:49
Speaker 2: only because the word balance makes it sound like it's
48:51
Speaker 2: just glorious all the time. And the truth is, we
48:54
Speaker 2: have deadlines, we have goal lives, we have budget times right,
48:59
Speaker 2: we have big projects, we have events. Life and career
49:03
Speaker 2: is a roller coaster and there are ups and downs,
49:06
Speaker 2: and we need to navigate that knowing that there are
49:08
Speaker 2: crunch times and then relax into the downtimes and think
49:13
Speaker 2: of it as professional recuperation. So I liken this to
49:17
Speaker 2: an elite athlete, and I talked about this earlier about
49:20
Speaker 2: how athletes for generations have used coaches they also rest.
49:25
Speaker 2: We just came off the twenty twenty four Olympics in
49:28
Speaker 2: Paris this summer. Every one of those athletes knows how
49:32
Speaker 2: important that downtime is for their muscles to heal and
49:37
Speaker 2: regenerate and recuperate. So if we can think about that
49:41
Speaker 2: in our work lives, we are going to either mitigate
49:45
Speaker 2: or vanish burn out all together if we can honor
49:49
Speaker 2: the downtime.
49:50
Speaker 1: As we discussed in the first segment, the pandemic led
49:53
Speaker 1: many to the remote workplace. That was followed by a
49:57
Speaker 1: hybrid situation, and last year many employe as mandated physical presence.
50:02
Speaker 1: How have these changes affected the work situation?
50:05
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it's very interesting. There are a lot
50:08
Speaker 2: of studies that are coming to light right now that
50:11
Speaker 2: show flexibility is ranked even higher than salary for so
50:15
Speaker 2: many when thinking about what kind of work they're taking.
50:18
Speaker 2: And I firmly believe that this is going to backfire,
50:22
Speaker 2: and I think it's really short sighted of these organizations
50:25
Speaker 2: and the leaders that run them to call everybody back flexibility.
50:29
Speaker 2: And I understand in some scenarios it was exploited inappropriately.
50:34
Speaker 2: So we need to have guardrails and make sure that
50:37
Speaker 2: people are high producing and effective when they're working hybrid
50:42
Speaker 2: or remote or any combination thereof. But this flexibility gives
50:47
Speaker 2: people peace of mind. It helps them with kids, or
50:50
Speaker 2: taking care of elderly parents, or dealing with health issues. Heck,
50:54
Speaker 2: even a dentist appointment right, Having that flexibility to do
50:57
Speaker 2: that during your work day can really change things. So
51:02
Speaker 2: I think we need to revisit this. I'm seeing a
51:05
Speaker 2: lot of pushback and it leads to disengagement, it leads
51:10
Speaker 2: to lack of trust, and it's really got a lot
51:14
Speaker 2: of negative repercussions. And I think that in a few years,
51:18
Speaker 2: I hope shorter, we are going to realize that remote
51:22
Speaker 2: work is here to stay.
51:24
Speaker 1: What are some of the practical tools and resources you
51:27
Speaker 1: provide in your career advantage to help individuals and organizations
51:32
Speaker 1: thrive in a competitive career marketplace.
51:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, I designed a book in such a way that
51:37
Speaker 2: I really wanted it to be actionable. So at the
51:39
Speaker 2: end of every chapter, and every chapter is short, you know,
51:43
Speaker 2: I get it. People don't even have time to read anymore.
51:45
Speaker 2: The book is also on audiobooks, so you can listen
51:48
Speaker 2: to it. But at the end of each chapter is
51:50
Speaker 2: a list of pro tips, very succinct things that you
51:53
Speaker 2: can put into practice today. Most of them, if not
51:58
Speaker 2: all of them, don't cost any money. There are mindset shifts,
52:01
Speaker 2: and these are things to really empower you for success.
52:04
Speaker 2: And the way the book is designed is that you
52:08
Speaker 2: can look at the table of contents and scan it.
52:10
Speaker 2: It might be, Gosh, I'm having a really tough time
52:12
Speaker 2: with my boss, Well there's a chapter for that. You
52:15
Speaker 2: mentioned imposter syndrome, there's a chapter for that. Or I'm
52:19
Speaker 2: seeking a promotion, there's a chapter for that. So it's
52:22
Speaker 2: a playbook and it's very very much designed to be
52:26
Speaker 2: a solution provider for the common scenarios that so many
52:29
Speaker 2: of us experience.
52:31
Speaker 1: What would you like readers to take away from your
52:33
Speaker 1: career advantage?
52:35
Speaker 2: You know, the bottom line, Victor, is that we all
52:38
Speaker 2: have power and that we need to use it. So
52:40
Speaker 2: whether you're mid career or you're a c Sueek professional.
52:44
Speaker 2: You deserve to live your best life and your best career,
52:49
Speaker 2: but you need to take the power back. There's a phrase,
52:52
Speaker 2: power is not given, it's taken. We all have that
52:55
Speaker 2: power and we need to be vocal. We need to
52:58
Speaker 2: have that reflection time to really consider what do we
53:01
Speaker 2: need and want to be successful in life and career,
53:04
Speaker 2: and we need to have the courage to be able
53:07
Speaker 2: to ask for what we need as well.
53:09
Speaker 1: And what's next for you in your career and your
53:12
Speaker 1: mission to help individuals unlock their full potential.
53:16
Speaker 2: Well, thank you for asking, Victor. You know, I believe
53:19
Speaker 2: that my career is in service of other people, whether
53:22
Speaker 2: I am on a podcast or Delightful today to be
53:26
Speaker 2: a guest of yours on your incredible podcast. So I
53:30
Speaker 2: am doing a lot of consulting work with organizations to
53:33
Speaker 2: help them create sustainable cultures of well being so people
53:37
Speaker 2: can do their best work. And of course I am
53:40
Speaker 2: coaching many individuals around the world. But something that I
53:43
Speaker 2: absolutely love and it's a way for me to meet
53:47
Speaker 2: with larger audiences, is serving as a public speaker to
53:51
Speaker 2: bring these ideas to light and help people think about
53:54
Speaker 2: how they can make positive change in their lives and careers.
53:58
Speaker 1: My guest is Caroline Higgins her book Your Career Advantage
54:03
Speaker 1: Overcome Challenges to Achieve a Rewarding Work Life. Caroline, before
54:07
Speaker 1: we ask you to give us your website and where
54:09
Speaker 1: people can get your books. What other books have you
54:11
Speaker 1: written before this one?
54:13
Speaker 2: Yes, So the first book that I wrote is called
54:15
Speaker 2: This Is Not the Career I Ordered, and it has
54:18
Speaker 2: two specific editions, and the second edition is almost an
54:22
Speaker 2: entirely new book because I chronicled the journey of many
54:26
Speaker 2: women who have experienced a career reinvention. I think you
54:30
Speaker 2: know my first career was as an opera singer, as
54:33
Speaker 2: I mentioned at the top of the show. So I
54:35
Speaker 2: myself have gone through a very dramatic career reinvention and
54:39
Speaker 2: it's a beautiful opportunity for people to think about how
54:42
Speaker 2: they can navigate career change.
54:46
Speaker 1: And your most recent book.
54:49
Speaker 2: Yes, the new book is Your Career Advantage Overcome Challenges
54:53
Speaker 2: to Achieve a Rewarding Work Life and Victor. If I may,
54:56
Speaker 2: I'll also share with your audience that I'm very proud
54:59
Speaker 2: of my podcast. I've been doing it for over a decade.
55:02
Speaker 2: It's called Your Working Life, and I feature luminaries and
55:06
Speaker 2: thought leaders in the career field, and it's a great
55:09
Speaker 2: joy to be able to bring those conversations to a
55:12
Speaker 2: global audience. We have listeners in thirty four countries.
55:16
Speaker 1: Caroline, please share with our listeners where they can get
55:18
Speaker 1: all of your books and find out more about you
55:20
Speaker 1: and your wonderful work.
55:21
Speaker 2: Well, Victor, thank you. So the best place is to
55:24
Speaker 2: find me on my website, carolindout Higgins dot com. I'm
55:28
Speaker 2: very active on LinkedIn. I would be delighted to connect
55:32
Speaker 2: with any of your listeners, and of course my podcast
55:35
Speaker 2: is on all podcast platforms, and as I mentioned, it
55:39
Speaker 2: is heard in thirty four countries, so I would be
55:41
Speaker 2: delighted to add some new listeners to that as well.
55:44
Speaker 2: And I am on the speaking circuit out in the world,
55:47
Speaker 2: so I would be delighted to connect with your listeners
55:49
Speaker 2: at the events where I'm speaking.
55:51
Speaker 1: And those events are listed on your website, correct they are, yes, Caroline,
55:55
Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us today and sharing
55:57
Speaker 1: this really important information for people are in the workplace
56:01
Speaker 1: looking to make changes in their life and live their
56:03
Speaker 1: best possible life.
56:05
Speaker 2: Victor, It's been an honor at a pleasure, and I'm
56:07
Speaker 2: grateful for you.
56:08
Speaker 1: And thank you for joining us on Vox Novus. I'm Victor,
56:11
Speaker 1: the voice Firman. Have a wonderful week.