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Katie Woolf spoke with Opposition Leader Lia Finocchiaro · 360 with Katie Woolf

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Meanwhile, the underground car park at State Square was also
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: focused on yesterday during those parliamentary estimates, and rightly so.
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  Speaker 1: Now when I talk about that underground car park, I
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  Speaker 1: know it's the one that the opposition likes to refer
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  Speaker 1: to as the underground above ground car park.
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  Speaker 2: I think you know that what I'm talking about.
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  Speaker 1: Anyway, Apparently the cost blew out more than seven million dollars,
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  Speaker 1: that's what's being reported on the ABC. It was tended
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  Speaker 1: at nineteen million but ended up costing more than twenty
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  Speaker 1: six point seven million dollars. Now, the Minister Evil Lawless
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  Speaker 1: said the issue was due to a Spestos mediation, and
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  Speaker 1: a spokesperson from the department had had said the same.
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  Speaker 1: It does make me wonder, though, how much are we
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  Speaker 1: going to see that playground at Miley Point blowout.
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  Speaker 2: I know that we're all.
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  Speaker 1: Waiting to sort of see things get going along there.
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  Speaker 1: I had been told that there'd been delays due to
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  Speaker 1: asbestos on that site, so I'm really interested to see
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  Speaker 1: if we end up with another cost blowout, because seven
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  Speaker 1: million dollars of taxpayers dollars is a.
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  Speaker 2: Huge amount to blow out on a project.
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  Speaker 1: I know that we have got issues around the Northern
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  Speaker 1: territory with asbestos re mediation, aspestos removal.
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  Speaker 2: But you know what point do we.
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  Speaker 1: Sort of factor these in when we go through that
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  Speaker 1: tendering process to avoid these kind of cost blowouts happening.
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  Speaker 1: And I would think that you'd always have a little
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  Speaker 1: bit of a buffer there, but seven million dollars seems
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  Speaker 1: like a huge amount to go over. Also this morning,
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  Speaker 1: though we are going to be crossing to Luke Gosling
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  Speaker 1: in Canberra. We'll cover off on the big issues as well.
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  Speaker 1: Damien Hale and Dave Tolna will join us in the studio.
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  Speaker 2: Let's get straight into it though. We have got such
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  Speaker 2: a busy morning lined.
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  Speaker 1: Up for you as always, and as I said, Parliamentary
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  Speaker 1: estimates continued today. Yesterday was one of those more interesting
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  Speaker 1: days with the police portfolio in focus. It was a
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  Speaker 1: timely day I think for the Opposition to be asking
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  Speaker 1: questions about crime, following on from the incidents which unfolded
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  Speaker 1: in the last twenty four hours, specifically the teenage boys
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: allegedly insulting people and damaging property at the supermarket in the.
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  Speaker 2: City on Monday.
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  Speaker 1: Now joining me on the line to talk further about
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  Speaker 1: this is the opposition leader leafanocchi Airo.
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  Speaker 3: Good morning, Good morning Katie, and good morning to your listeners.
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  Speaker 1: Now, Lea, you've been asking for weeks now about repeat
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  Speaker 1: offending and bail and the impact of the government's youth
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  Speaker 1: justice changes. Did you get the answers to any of
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  Speaker 1: the questions that well, you, me and the public have
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  Speaker 1: been asking for some time.
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  Speaker 3: Oh it's a Paul and Katie, No, I haven't. So
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  Speaker 3: you know, I asked a series of questions in parliament
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  Speaker 3: about how many youths have been arrested, how many were
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  Speaker 3: then bailed, how many were then arrested while on bail,
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  Speaker 3: All questions that are in the public interest, All questions
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  Speaker 3: that territories want to know answers for. I then followed
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  Speaker 3: that up on several occasions, giving notice to government that
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  Speaker 3: I would be asking these questions in parliament in estimates,
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  Speaker 3: and the Police Minister came empty handed yesterday. So those
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  Speaker 3: questions have now been taken on notice and I won't
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  Speaker 3: be receiving a risky to those until late January next year,
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  Speaker 3: which is appalling.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, really to sort of to lay this out
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  Speaker 1: and bear for our listeners, why is it important that
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  Speaker 1: we get this information lea because some people might be thinking, well,
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  Speaker 1: is it even going to make any difference if we not,
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  Speaker 1: It makes a.
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  Speaker 3: Huge difference, because what we've got is a government trying
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  Speaker 3: to spin its way out of the crime crisis that
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  Speaker 3: is plaguing the territory, and a government in denial about
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  Speaker 3: the impacts of its use justice and bail laws that
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  Speaker 3: it brought in two years ago which watered down consequences
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  Speaker 3: and erode bail. And so what I'm trying to get
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  Speaker 3: to the bottom of love is understanding that repeat offending
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  Speaker 3: and understanding what that revolving door of bail looks like
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  Speaker 3: and show it with the data. So it's critical that
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  Speaker 3: the governments start looking at numbers that matter. At the moment,
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  Speaker 3: we've got government talking about the number of prosecution files
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  Speaker 3: and all these other types of data, which in and
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  Speaker 3: of themselves don't give territories any clarity around what is
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  Speaker 3: happening to someone within the justice system. So we will
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  Speaker 3: continue to ask these questions that are important to territories,
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  Speaker 3: and we will continue to shine a light on what
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  Speaker 3: is going on with the government's changes and whether or
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  Speaker 3: not in fact they're contributing to these continuous breaches of
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  Speaker 3: bail and this increasing in offending.
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  Speaker 1: Leah, were you able to ascertain exactly what those prosecution
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  Speaker 1: files meant following the release of that information last week
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  Speaker 1: around Alice Springs.
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  Speaker 3: Yes, so the Police Commissioner explained that really well, which
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  Speaker 3: is good to know, and essentially its files put to
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  Speaker 3: police prosecution for charge. But of course that's police doing
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  Speaker 3: a fantastic job, and of cause our police are out
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  Speaker 3: there every day working so hard to keep us safe
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  Speaker 3: in challenging situation. Obviously COVID's just exacerbated everything. But the
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  Speaker 3: prosecution file is police providing that I guess evidence to
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  Speaker 3: the police prosecutor to then charge. But of course what
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  Speaker 3: we don't know from talking about secution files is what
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  Speaker 3: then happens. Where does it then fall down? Is it
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  Speaker 3: with the courts, is it with the legislation not being
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  Speaker 3: able to you know, because it's geared so much in
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  Speaker 3: favor of the youth. So it doesn't really tell us anything.
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  Speaker 3: What it tells us is that our police work really
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  Speaker 3: hard and we know that and no one's ever thought otherwise.
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  Speaker 3: But what it doesn't show us is where the law
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  Speaker 3: itself breaks down and doesn't support the work of police.
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  Speaker 3: And that's what I want to get to the bottom
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  Speaker 3: of Lea.
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  Speaker 2: What do you think is happening?
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  Speaker 1: Where do you think this is all breaking down and
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  Speaker 1: the community is being let down.
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  Speaker 3: I think the government's approach to law and order has
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  Speaker 3: been permissive, and I think over the four or five years,
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  Speaker 3: offenders have become more brazen because they know nothing is
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  Speaker 3: going to happen to them. They know they have to
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  Speaker 3: be a very severe offender before some sort of meaningful
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  Speaker 3: consequences is delivered to them. I think the fact that
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  Speaker 3: we've removed breach of bowel condition as offense sends a
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  Speaker 3: signal like, you know nothing is going to happen to
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  Speaker 3: me if I breach my bail. Bail has been watered
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  Speaker 3: down to be largely meaningless. I think, you know, the
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  Speaker 3: youth justice reform has been terrible. I think territory families
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  Speaker 3: being in control of use justice is an experiment that
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  Speaker 3: has failed and failed territorians, and I think territory families
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  Speaker 3: had a lot to answer for and a big role
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  Speaker 3: to play in this crime crisis. Very experiencing well Lea.
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  Speaker 1: Yesterday we spoke with the Police Association President Paul mcew
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  Speaker 1: on the show about those bail amendments and if there
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  Speaker 1: needs to be change in this space. Now, hopefully this
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  Speaker 1: plays properly. Take a listen.
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  Speaker 4: Whilst you know the minister's saying there was wholehearted support
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  Speaker 4: for that, I'm not sure that's actually the case. And
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  Speaker 4: I know the feedback we're getting from members on the
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  Speaker 4: ground is you know it needs to be looked at
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  Speaker 4: again because it's just not working right now, Leah.
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  Speaker 1: From your perspective, why does this need to be reviewed?
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  Speaker 1: I mean it was a recommendation of the Royal Commission.
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  Speaker 3: Because it's not working. And I just can't understand why
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  Speaker 3: the government is continuing to push ahead when it goes
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  Speaker 3: around the territory, when it sees the impact crime is
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  Speaker 3: having having on territorians, when it sees this sort of
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  Speaker 3: increase in severe offending, why it's not looking at the
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  Speaker 3: things it's done which may have contributed to it. And
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  Speaker 3: I think removing the charge of breach of our condition
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  Speaker 3: as an offense is a very bad deterrent. I think
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  Speaker 3: it's just removed a deterrent. It's removed an opportunity for
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  Speaker 3: police to be able to lay extra charges and send
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  Speaker 3: a message to that young person doing the wrong thing
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  Speaker 3: that if they're caught, you know they're going to be
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  Speaker 3: charged for it. It's just it's just so offender focus.
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  Speaker 3: This government has been so offender focused, but it has
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  Speaker 3: not put in the wrap around supports to these offenders
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  Speaker 3: to be able to stop them from offending. And so
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  Speaker 3: you know, their processes are at cross purposes and it's
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  Speaker 3: doing a disservice to our community.
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  Speaker 2: Leah.
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  Speaker 1: One of the other questions that I've beve you did
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  Speaker 1: ask yesterday is what is considered a prescribed offense, because
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  Speaker 1: my understanding is that if you were charged with the
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  Speaker 1: prescribed defense, that then you're.
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  Speaker 2: Not able to get bailed.
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  Speaker 1: But please correct me if I'm wrong based on the
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  Speaker 1: information that you were given yesterday.
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  Speaker 3: No, you can still so use virtually a bailed or
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  Speaker 3: they have a presumption in favor of VAO, so bail
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  Speaker 3: is a preferred outcome. I suppose you could call it
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  Speaker 3: for offenses that are to prescribe defense, which is most
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  Speaker 3: offenses then there are prescribed defenses, which means I think
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  Speaker 3: it's the presumption's neutral. So it's not that they do
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  Speaker 3: they're not bailed, it's not that at all. It's just
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  Speaker 3: they don't have that positive affirmation of getting bail. So
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  Speaker 3: prescribed defenses are very very serious types of offenses. They're
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  Speaker 3: like terrorism, murder. The Police Commissioner did outline a couple
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  Speaker 3: of other offenses which fall into that category, but again
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  Speaker 3: that's something that we think needs to be looked at with,
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  Speaker 3: which is why I asked the question around how many
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  Speaker 3: people have been arrested for prescribed and non prescribed defenses,
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  Speaker 3: because perhaps we need to be pulling that threshold lower
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  Speaker 3: so that more crimes are actually prescribed defenses.
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  Speaker 1: I'll tell you what, I'm quite confused by all the information.
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  Speaker 1: I'm sure that a lot of our listeners are as well.
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  Speaker 1: I know that you know you've been trying to get
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  Speaker 1: this detail from the Police Minister. What was the reasoning
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  Speaker 1: behind not being able to give you the statistics and
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  Speaker 1: the answers to the questions that you put to her yesterday.
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  Speaker 3: Or she didn't give a reason at all. It's just laziness.
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  Speaker 3: I mean, on Monday we saw incompetence from the Chief Minister,
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  Speaker 3: and yesterday we saw laziness from the Police Minister. They
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  Speaker 3: know these questions are important to territory and they know
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  Speaker 3: these questions are important to unlocking what is really going on.
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  Speaker 3: And they're not interested in providing that going forward because
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  Speaker 3: they are not a government that is keen to review
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  Speaker 3: its own policies. They're not a government to look at
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  Speaker 3: what they've done and try and see if they can
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  Speaker 3: improve and make it better into the future. They are
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  Speaker 3: a set and forget government and they're just happy to
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  Speaker 3: ride this out and hope that their talk of generational
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  Speaker 3: change in twenty years is going to make some difference.
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  Speaker 1: Now, well, look, you know, I think at the moment
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  Speaker 1: Territorians are hurting at the moment, and there's no doubt
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  Speaker 1: about that, and I think that's you know, realistically, I'm
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  Speaker 1: certainly hearing what you're saying. You know, I've heard what
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  Speaker 1: the government has had to say in this space, and
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  Speaker 1: I think that at some point, I don't know how
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  Speaker 1: I can communicate this to the government and to all
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  Speaker 1: of our politicians, but you know, we've got to try
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  Speaker 1: in some way to put politics aside and try our
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  Speaker 1: best to sort this issue so that we do not
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  Speaker 1: lose good Territorians who are going to move away because
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  Speaker 1: they're fed up with the way that we're dealing with
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  Speaker 1: things when it comes to youth crime.
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  Speaker 3: That's exactly right, Katie, and we have put up so
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  Speaker 3: many solutions. We have tried so hard to get the
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  Speaker 3: information and the government is it's just not getting through
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  Speaker 3: to them. They have to have the political will to
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  Speaker 3: want to deal with this issue, and there has been
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  Speaker 3: no indication so far that they do. I mean, it's
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  Speaker 3: just pure laziness not to come to estimates with the answers.
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  Speaker 3: The Police Minister had to take twenty four questions on
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  Speaker 3: notice yesterday. Again, we won't get them back to January,
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  Speaker 3: but I can assure you, Katie, when they come back,
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  Speaker 3: we will be talking here.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, and look, I'll be keen to hear exactly what
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  Speaker 1: comes through.
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  Speaker 2: I do want to ask you, Leah.
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  Speaker 1: Obviously we spoke yesterday about that situation that unfolded at
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  Speaker 1: the Woolworths CBD. We found out that the seventeen year
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  Speaker 1: old one seventeen year old was obviously apprehended by the
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  Speaker 1: Northern Territory Police. That youth was then released without being interviewed,
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  Speaker 1: to be interviewed at a later date.
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  Speaker 2: What was your reaction upon hearing that?
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  Speaker 3: You know what, I wasn't surprised at all because that's
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  Speaker 3: the way the law is geared. This is not police's fault.
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  Speaker 3: It's the way the legislation is structured, and that was
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  Speaker 3: a horrific incident that I think people are just starting
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  Speaker 3: to wonder what on earth is going on and is
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  Speaker 3: this going to get worth over the school holiday period.
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  Speaker 3: I mean, for that to happen in broad daylight, just
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  Speaker 3: you know, a few meters away from police headquarters, you know,
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  Speaker 3: it's just astonishing, and that that brazenness of this offending
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  Speaker 3: and the violent nature of it is making a lot
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  Speaker 3: of people wonder when is the government going to take
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  Speaker 3: action and start dealing with this seriously.
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  Speaker 1: Now, Leah, I know that there has been plenty to
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  Speaker 1: focus on obviously in parliamentary estimates, and it is really
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  Speaker 1: the opportunity for the opposition and the Independence to get
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  Speaker 1: the information all hopefully or at least try and get
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  Speaker 1: the information that you're chasing. But look, I do know
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  Speaker 1: that it's being reported by the ABC News that the
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  Speaker 1: underground car park at State Square, I know you like
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  Speaker 1: to call it the underground above ground car park. It
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  Speaker 1: was a focus yesterday and the cost of that car
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  Speaker 1: park actually blew out more than seven million dollars, is
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  Speaker 1: what's they're reporting now. It was tended at nineteen million
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  Speaker 1: dollars but ended up costing more than twenty six So
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  Speaker 1: it's seven million dollars. Lea, are there ways in which
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  Speaker 1: we can actually when a tender is you know, put out,
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  Speaker 1: Are there ways in which we can mitigate this from happening?
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  Speaker 2: I mean, we all understand.
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  Speaker 1: That there are issues with asbestos in the territory, but
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  Speaker 1: seven million dollars seems like a phenomenal amount of money.
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  Speaker 3: It is a phenomenal amount of money. And what's worse
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  Speaker 3: is that that site was guaranteed to have his best
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: dis in it. Katie. It used to be a dumping
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  Speaker 3: site after Cyclone Tracy. So the fact that that has
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: come as a surprise just shows the work wasn't done
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  Speaker 3: up front and the government just wanted to push ahead
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  Speaker 3: and get this done. I mean, I'd love to know
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  Speaker 3: of that seven million, how much of that is attributed
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: to the landscaping plans they had to change because of course,
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: originally that was meant to be an above ground car pike,
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: not an above ground underground car park. You know, it
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  Speaker 3: was meant to be under the ground with grass flat
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  Speaker 3: on the top. And of course now we've got a
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  Speaker 3: lovely feature mountain in the middle. Of our CBD. It's
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  Speaker 3: a total joke. It shows this government incapacity to manage
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: the books. They don't even care about that blowout. We've
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: been asking questions about this car part for months, if
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: not years, and a seven million dollar blowout is not
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  Speaker 3: just something we can accept as oh, well, that's the
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: cost of doing business. It's about preparation.
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  Speaker 1: What about the Miley Point playground. We were going to
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: have a playground built there. We've already been told that
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: there are some delays, as I understand, due to with Beesto.
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: So are you concerned about how much that's going to
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: eventually cost?
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: Absolutely? Absolutely, I mean that project has been delayed. We've
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: all seen the fencing up there for a very very
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: long time. Again, a well known site that would certainly
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: almost certainly have as bestess in it. So if the
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: government wants to push ahead in developing these sites, they've
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: got to be better prepared for the true cost of
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: those proposals. I think that original playground was going to
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: be about three million dollars, which by any standard is
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: a lot of money for a playground. You know, it'd
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: be very interesting to see what the final wash up
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: dollar figure is.
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  Speaker 1: Well Leafanocchi Aio opposition leader. We are going to have
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: to leave it there, but we'll have you in on Friday,
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: as I understand it, for the week.
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  Speaker 2: That was perfect. All right, well, we'll see you Friday.
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  Speaker 2: Thank you, Leader Friday.
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  Speaker 3: Take care.
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: That's Leaf and Occuiaro there, the opposition leader.