Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Martin Parsons about his choice of Image of the Fendhal (2/4)

Transcript

Talks to Martin Parsons about his choice of Image of the Fendhal (2/4) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:33
  Hamster with a blunt. Pen knife for doing quicker.
• 0:37
  Quicker hamster with a blunt pen knife.
• 0:40
  Little podcast commenter for Doctor Who EC Martin Parsons A
• 0:45
  Havoc Mossey not hot Joe Ford. Hello, Joe.
• 0:54
  That's all. I know.
• 1:04
  Sorry. I think it is really.
• 1:05
  I think so, yeah. But again, I don't know where.
• 1:08
  I don't know who watched it as that.
• 1:10
  I don't know if it's ever been like released as that.
• 1:12
  I don't know. There are translations of all
• 1:14
  the story titles and if any French people are listening I
• 1:17
  apologise for my accent but I. Mean, to be honest with you, I
• 1:21
  thought it was getting a bit hot in here when you were saying all
• 1:23
  of that. It's just something so hot about
• 1:25
  the French accent. Oh, it is as a little behind the
• 1:29
  scenes. Like mine sent through a a first
• 1:31
  line for the hamster book club theme and it came through in
• 1:35
  French and I said I don't give a shit what he's saying.
• 1:37
  That is so horny. Oh my.
• 1:39
  God just made it up. Goodnight, yeah.
• 1:41
  You could have said anything. Junk 4's a total cunt and I'd
• 1:44
  have been like, oh boy, you know, image of the Fender?
• 1:49
  You're right, you mentioned it in the first episode.
• 1:51
  It's a great title, isn't it? It's great.
• 1:53
  And what does it, it's one of those titles.
• 1:55
  It's like I remember also the other cover I would always see
• 1:58
  and I didn't see it for quite a long time was Logopolis or or,
• 2:03
  or Logopolis as I thought it was called, because I was like, it
• 2:05
  was that. But it's just I think we like, I
• 2:07
  don't know what that is. Sounds fascinating.
• 2:09
  And then from the cover you like, don't know what that is,
• 2:11
  looks fascinating. And the same thing for image of
• 2:13
  the Fender. It's like, what is?
• 2:14
  What is Offendo? Yeah.
• 2:15
  What's it? Why are we?
• 2:17
  Why are we talking about this image?
• 2:18
  And what's this skull about? It's moved on from more sort of
• 2:21
  specific titles. The Face of Evil.
• 2:24
  The robots. Robots of Dev.
• 2:27
  In which you fucking? Dull.
• 2:29
  Yes. As long as it's something of
• 2:30
  something, it's fine. It doesn't matter.
• 2:32
  Like whatever, just throw in some words.
• 2:33
  And I really like as well. I mean, I know we we get
• 2:36
  monsters by the end of the story and Jesus, we get a
• 2:40
  manifestation of death itself. Terrifying, but I like the fact
• 2:45
  that for most of the story it is conceptual horror.
• 2:48
  Yeah, and I think that for me is one of the like as much though I
• 2:51
  said I think there's something really brilliant about the
• 2:54
  Phenterline design, but I just think it's the kind of thing
• 2:57
  they they can't do it in a way that's going to be, you know,
• 2:59
  100% effective. I think what when I was trying
• 3:03
  to think about what I would have done instead.
• 3:05
  I mean, there is the thing of the first episode is brilliant
• 3:08
  with having nothing, just that force that presence.
• 3:12
  I also think that something that could potentially have worked
• 3:15
  would have been, and I feel like you might not be such a fan of
• 3:18
  this. I was going to say compared to
• 3:21
  Planet of Evil, where I've got oh, do you OK, OK, I can never
• 3:26
  remember who likes it and who doesn't.
• 3:27
  So. I heart doesn't like it.
• 3:28
  It's strange, yeah, I but it's that is very similar in some
• 3:33
  ways because you've got the same this this dark force that a lot
• 3:35
  of the time you don't see and it makes bodies decompose and it's
• 3:39
  sort of the antithesis of life. But then when you get the
• 3:42
  monster, well, when you get some of the monsters, not the kind of
• 3:44
  werewolf monsters, but when you get the the fringing monsters,
• 3:48
  it's great because it's not something we've seen before,
• 3:51
  excepting Forbidden Planet, but it's something that you haven't
• 3:53
  really seen that often. And that sort of thing
• 3:57
  potentially could have when they're like, oh, something's
• 4:00
  coming round the corner. If what came round the corner
• 4:03
  was a sort of shape of CSO fringing, I, I feel like that
• 4:07
  could potentially have worked. Maybe they should.
• 4:09
  Have just gone with like a shadow like a a shadow nurse or.
• 4:12
  Something, yeah, or, or when you, when you watch the Stone
• 4:14
  Tape, you'll see, I mean it, it divides opinion because when you
• 4:17
  see the sort of monster at the end, it's done as basically
• 4:22
  like, I don't know if it's CSO cartoon, it's something, but
• 4:25
  it's basically just shapes. And some of them don't work, but
• 4:28
  some of them really do. There's these just sort of
• 4:30
  amorphous green blobs, but they with the sound design, they're
• 4:34
  just so creepy. And that's in assignment 2 of
• 4:38
  sapphire and steel, don't they? It's just it's just lighting
• 4:41
  effect. Yeah, yeah.
• 4:42
  Oh, it's, it's gorgeous. Yeah, that's that as well.
• 4:45
  That kind of thing I think could have worked really, really well.
• 4:47
  But obviously, you know, there is that thing of it's Doctor
• 4:49
  Who, you gotta stick a monster in there, OK?
• 4:52
  And I do think the design of the Fendoline is.
• 4:54
  Is the photographs. Are brilliant and I and I
• 4:58
  remember there's a guy called Richard Wells who did art design
• 5:02
  on quite a few Doctor Who and Sarah Jane Adventures and things
• 5:05
  and he does lino print woodcut pictures.
• 5:09
  And he did me one of or he did 1 and I bought 1 of Bach, which
• 5:13
  was really nice. But I said to him you should do
• 5:15
  a fendoline as like a wood print because I think it would look
• 5:19
  great because it looks like a creature from mythology.
• 5:21
  It looks brilliant when it's yeah, like you say in a still
• 5:25
  image, it looks great when it's not wriggling along the
• 5:28
  corridor. It looks really really good.
• 5:29
  I'm going to make you eat those words by the end of this Co-op
• 5:32
  summon Offendoline that's all behind you is going to open
• 5:35
  right and the lights are going to go out and an 8 foot snake
• 5:40
  with 10 drools and slime is going to come inch and into your
• 5:42
  room. But I mean.
• 5:43
  It's funny that you mentioned dot and bubble because even in
• 5:45
  dot and bubble where obviously, you know, you're much bigger
• 5:47
  budget and stuff, and even then I was like terrible, yeah, I was
• 5:50
  like these slits, the slit. We haven't got slit, slitherey
• 5:53
  slug yet, still have no. We're not.
• 5:56
  Even with £20 million per episode or whatever it is, we
• 6:01
  still can't do it. Not working I.
• 6:03
  Think we're back to about £45 per episode now Back.
• 6:08
  To nothing. Just yeah.
• 6:10
  Well, look, shall I count us into Episode 2?
• 6:12
  Yes, and we'll see just what on earth Tom Baker was so shocked
• 6:16
  to confront at the end of the first episode.
• 6:20
  Are you ready? Yes.
• 6:21
  OK, we'll go in then. In 321, off we go.
• 6:29
  Oh, look at these titles. They they are wonderful.
• 6:33
  I mean, this is the things you can do with some plucky bags and
• 6:36
  a couple of a couple of little cutouts of it.
• 6:38
  I won't tell you what I say. I think it normally looks like.
• 6:42
  Have you seen sort of a camera going up somebody's asshole?
• 6:47
  Yeah, it does. Look a little bit like that.
• 6:49
  Yeah, it's like what's going on here?
• 6:51
  Yeah, there there is some I do really like.
• 6:54
  There's the there's an episode. Have you seen, have you ever
• 6:56
  seen like the Family Guy Star Wars Spooks When when they're
• 7:00
  like, oh, every time we go into hyperspace, it looks really
• 7:03
  weird. And that just comes out with the
• 7:04
  title sequence. Like, yes, they they, yeah,
• 7:07
  look, look at this shot. I mean, this is brilliant.
• 7:09
  This is just looks incredibly creepy.
• 7:12
  And and the shots outside the house, everything's just so well
• 7:14
  lit. The lighting is brilliant.
• 7:16
  It's it's. Almost sort of like every horror
• 7:18
  trope, right? He's, I mean, in the previous
• 7:22
  episode, you saw a cultist walk past her in a robe.
• 7:27
  You see now that there's tarot cards all over the table in a
• 7:30
  minute. It's just like every visual
• 7:33
  horror clue you could possibly have on the screen.
• 7:36
  And it is, I think, and I think this is lots of people have
• 7:39
  commented on this, but this is kind of the last gasp of that
• 7:42
  sort of gothic key. And we don't get it again until
• 7:45
  really Sylvester McCoy. I mean, you get the start of the
• 7:49
  visitation where they're sort of like playing with it, but not
• 7:51
  really. And then it's too, well, it's
• 7:53
  too bright, not the lighting doesn't work.
• 7:56
  They yeah, they just don't go here in the 80s, are they?
• 7:59
  Till what? Cursor Fenrick.
• 8:01
  I was going to say this summer Ghost Light.
• 8:03
  Yeah, yeah. And the and the awakening has
• 8:05
  its own the awakening that's sort of the one that's like a
• 8:08
  little bit. Did you ever read the BBC book
• 8:12
  Grave Matter starring the 6th Doctor and Perry?
• 8:15
  No, I have because I saw you mention it and it's it's on a
• 8:19
  pile of books that's on my sort of to read at some point pile.
• 8:24
  The ultimate past doctor. God, I wish they'd made that in
• 8:27
  there. Yes, because they could have
• 8:28
  done it. And it is all of this zombies,
• 8:30
  and I mean misty villages. That in that into that kind of
• 8:34
  thing, I am very easy to please in terms of like, give me some
• 8:37
  mist, give me some, some mysterious.
• 8:40
  Yeah, I'll remember that. OK, well, it's like, but it's
• 8:42
  like, give me a remote research station in the fog.
• 8:47
  Is that all you need in a day? Oh, my research station.
• 8:50
  It's absolutely already. Somewhere misty.
• 8:53
  Somewhere misty, but you know, or lighthouse things like have
• 8:56
  you have you ever seen the nightmare man, the TV?
• 9:00
  Terrifying. Yeah, I mean that it's just
• 9:03
  like, you know, people in the lighthouse or whatever it is and
• 9:05
  you're like, fuck, there's this is this is brilliant.
• 9:07
  It's absolutely blood chilling. I mean, and what was the other
• 9:11
  one that really scared me? I'm going to say you'll laugh
• 9:13
  your head off. It was the one with Gareth
• 9:15
  Thomas, Children of the Stones. Oh.
• 9:18
  Brilliant. Fantastic.
• 9:19
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely brilliant.
• 9:21
  And I mean, there is that whole folk hora thing, you know, it's
• 9:23
  very, it is very similar. I was going to say Ian
• 9:27
  Cuthbertson again, like Rebus operation, like stone tape as
• 9:30
  well crop stuff everywhere. Do you think you know?
• 9:32
  I do think it is a shame that we lost the horror completely.
• 9:36
  I am pleased that we've moved on from horror pastiches into that
• 9:42
  sort of literate fantasy science fiction that you get in the
• 9:46
  latter day Williams. I think it was time for
• 9:48
  something new. Oh yeah, definitely.
• 9:50
  And, and there are, there are one or two.
• 9:52
  I think the problem is that with this and Fang Rock, you're still
• 9:55
  straddling 2 worlds a little bit.
• 9:57
  And there are a bit. Both homes.
• 9:59
  Yeah, and I think I think fan rock works better.
• 10:01
  There's a bit at the end of this where I was a bit like
• 10:06
  Hinchcliffe would have had the cultists burning corpses falling
• 10:10
  to peace and I wasn't. I kind of wanted that a little
• 10:13
  bit. It's one of those where it's
• 10:14
  sort of a little bit unsure as to what it needs to be.
• 10:16
  But yeah, I think like you say it was, it was time to move on.
• 10:20
  But I am glad that in the McCoy era, they were like, actually,
• 10:23
  horror is valid as well. It's it's something we could do
• 10:26
  really well. What's?
• 10:27
  So weird, right? Is it's this The Sun Makers
• 10:30
  back-to-back. So this is obviously script
• 10:31
  edited by Robert Holmes and that's written by Robert Holmes.
• 10:34
  This is a horror, but it's actually quite funny.
• 10:38
  There are eccentric characters in the witty lines like it is
• 10:42
  very entertaining. Mal Tyler, as we say here, that
• 10:45
  beat the way to make a fruitcake.
• 10:46
  You know, all that stuff. And yet The Sun Makers, which is
• 10:50
  supposedly a comedy, It's so dark for some makers.
• 10:54
  Incredibly dark. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 10:56
  Every time I rewatch The Sun Makers, I'm like, it's just when
• 10:59
  it's like, it starts with him going to commit suicide and
• 11:02
  you're just like, whoa, OK, this is this is, yeah, really, really
• 11:05
  bleak from the very beginning. Oh, look at this, Martin.
• 11:08
  She's sort of covered in Little Willies now, and she is actually
• 11:12
  really funny. It does raise that question of
• 11:14
  like, what is a Fendoline? What do they do?
• 11:18
  What is the blister on the back of the neck?
• 11:20
  All this stuff where you're kind of like what is actually
• 11:22
  happening are. They like the deaf eaters, you
• 11:24
  know, Aren't they supposed to sort of consume?
• 11:26
  Yeah, but like, what are they? Because the whole thing is it's
• 11:29
  the Fendale supposed to be the one life form that survived.
• 11:32
  So are the fenderly part of the sort of composite creature or
• 11:37
  are they just other sluggy? I don't they seem I mean it's.
• 11:40
  Supposed to be just a Lovecraftian horror.
• 11:42
  I think that's what they're going.
• 11:44
  For does it have a Cara pace and that's why it can survive?
• 11:48
  Yeah, but I quite like the, I like the stuff about.
• 11:51
  What I do really appreciate is the way they, the things they do
• 11:56
  in State of Decay, where they add a bit of, they add a little
• 12:00
  bit of texture to the, to the Gallifrey legend and, and the
• 12:05
  way he reacts to the, the, what happens to the planet later on.
• 12:08
  And he's like, oh, they shouldn't do that, But they
• 12:10
  don't go into it in any detail. They're just like the Time Lords
• 12:12
  have done something which is they shouldn't have done.
• 12:16
  It's a kind of dark thing they've done and it's in the
• 12:18
  past, the distant past. And I I like that we.
• 12:21
  Do it again in Underworld this year, don't we?
• 12:24
  There is a very there's a a mission statement, I think, to
• 12:28
  make the Time Lords less cosy. Yeah, and I think the that I, I
• 12:33
  always appreciate it. It's like how they did with the
• 12:37
  the time War in the new series where you got when it was just
• 12:40
  done in sort of broad strokes of like this really dark thing
• 12:44
  happened and whatever. I love that stuff.
• 12:46
  And then when it becomes, it's just people shooting each other,
• 12:48
  I didn't like. *. Wars.
• 12:50
  It's just Star Wars. I didn't like that quite so
• 12:52
  less. Of a budget, yeah.
• 12:54
  Less of a budget, you know it's. So weird, right?
• 12:56
  I just, I've only just realised this is because Episode 1 spent
• 13:00
  so much time doing that wonderful work setting up all of
• 13:03
  these characters. So we spent so much time with
• 13:05
  the guest characters. The Doctor didn't enter the
• 13:08
  story itself until then when he walked into that room.
• 13:13
  And. Then he's got every single
• 13:15
  answer. He hasn't done any
• 13:16
  investigation. He's gone, oh, that's the
• 13:18
  phenoline right now. I'm going to tell you all about
• 13:20
  them. And now I'm going to get bunged
• 13:22
  in a cupboard. It's so his role in this is so
• 13:25
  strange and. I think the thing that is I,
• 13:28
  there's a lot of things in this that I, I am totally OK with it.
• 13:32
  And I see that other people are maybe not quite so OK with it.
• 13:34
  Like you said, it's like the doctor just sort of floats
• 13:37
  around and knows everything and doesn't need to look into
• 13:40
  anything. And the, the, the fact that it's
• 13:43
  all a bit of a kind of Deus Ex machina now at the end, it's how
• 13:46
  we, you know, we just run away and blow things up.
• 13:48
  And it's like, but I, I love the process of it all happening.
• 13:52
  The trade off means we get the love triangle between Colby's
• 13:56
  Thea and Style. This is this is no exactly and
• 14:00
  all the brilliant characterisation just and
• 14:02
  because we haven't talked about Jack Tyler as well, who just the
• 14:07
  relationship between Jack and his grandma is brilliant.
• 14:10
  Like it's just so well drawn and.
• 14:14
  It's a real respect for her, isn't?
• 14:18
  It lovely and and he sort of realises everyone kind of
• 14:20
  realises that she does have something about her he maybe
• 14:24
  doesn't quite believe that it's magic, but he realises that
• 14:27
  she's a formidable sort of personality that.
• 14:30
  She's a good old girl, but she was brought up on the old ways.
• 14:34
  You see? The old ways.
• 14:36
  Oh, OK. Call her mother Tyler.
• 14:39
  And that ain't because he likes her.
• 14:41
  Sorry, I'm doing a terrible. No, no, but all of that.
• 14:44
  But I think also he it's a really well judged performance
• 14:46
  as well from what's to say Henslef, Jeffrey Henslef is it
• 14:50
  who's he's he's really he's just really good as well.
• 14:53
  Everyone gets it. I think everyone is really
• 14:56
  they're getting what the writing is is intending for the
• 14:59
  characters. Yeah, did you ever watch him as
• 15:02
  Don Brennan in Corrie? No, he.
• 15:05
  Was terrifying breakdown in Corrie.
• 15:09
  Yeah. And he was very, very scary.
• 15:12
  Apparently, when they were trying to pull together, Toby
• 15:14
  was saying they were trying to pull together actors to do a
• 15:16
  commentary on this one he just had no interest in because he's
• 15:20
  a nightmare of Eden as well as well.
• 15:21
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Excise Men.
• 15:23
  And he just was like, I can't really remember anything about
• 15:25
  it. I've done a lot of work since
• 15:27
  then. I've got nothing to say.
• 15:29
  It is I do, I have sort of I respect that when people, and
• 15:34
  I've interviewed some people, people in the past who've been I
• 15:36
  interviewed a lovely actress, but she was in quite a few
• 15:38
  Hammer horror films, but as a young girl and she was just
• 15:41
  saying like these aren't really my memories.
• 15:43
  I know this because people have told me like she's like, I have
• 15:46
  vague memories of being on set, but like actually the things I
• 15:49
  actually know, I don't remember them.
• 15:51
  I've been told them and now, now I can repeat them, mate.
• 15:53
  Which obviously we know from when you compare 80s interviews
• 15:56
  with Doctor Who actors to their. Convention.
• 15:58
  Why? I'm Miss Barry.
• 15:59
  Lex. You know, he had so much
• 16:01
  integrity. He would go.
• 16:03
  Katie, Are you sure that's not what you said two years ago, You
• 16:08
  know? Like, yeah, I mean, I, yeah, I
• 16:10
  think also Barry Letts was just always his approach, his
• 16:13
  perspective. I went to a fascinating
• 16:15
  conference that was on religion in Doctor Who that Barry Letts
• 16:18
  spoke at, and he hung around just chatting to everyone
• 16:21
  afterwards. And I was like, oh, let's talk
• 16:23
  about ghosts and end space. But it was but but he was his
• 16:27
  perspective on everything was just so fascinating.
• 16:30
  And like, it was really nice just to hear whenever he spoke
• 16:32
  about anything. I thought it was really
• 16:33
  interesting. It's just so honest.
• 16:36
  That's what I love about it. But you know, they all just vamp
• 16:39
  at these conventions now. And I'm like.
• 16:41
  Come on. Well, I've not I've not ever
• 16:43
  really been to a conventional we did I.
• 16:45
  Thought you looked quite sane. Well, what what they did, what
• 16:49
  was nice is that Galaxy 4, the the Doctor shop in Sheffield
• 16:52
  used to organise just one person afternoons.
• 16:56
  So I saw Colin Baker, Elizabeth Sladen and Anthony Ailey.
• 17:01
  That was particularly nice where just doing a 11 afternoon, just
• 17:05
  them being interviewed. So I've done those sort of
• 17:08
  things, but I've never actually gone to a sort of conventiony
• 17:11
  convention, I'll be honest. With you, Martin, the only thing
• 17:13
  you're going to get from a Doctor Who convention is
• 17:16
  terrible anecdotes and possibly an STD, so I would avoid them
• 17:20
  all together. What's the one that's done at
• 17:22
  the place where the film Spearhead from space?
• 17:25
  What's that one? You see, I've never been to
• 17:27
  that. One, yeah, I always kind of
• 17:29
  think it looks nice just to go to the building, but beyond that
• 17:32
  I don't really. Have to go, you know you and me
• 17:33
  and play soldiers. We get dressed up.
• 17:36
  And do that one, you know, stalk around the woods.
• 17:38
  Big guns out, Oh my God and be like men for a day.
• 17:42
  I think it's they be like we're making a probe film just.
• 17:45
  What are you talking about the BBV pro films?
• 17:49
  Run around. Run around in the cheap woods
• 17:51
  without. You'd be more convincing than
• 17:53
  Hazel Burroughs, as Lee. Sure, I'm telling you now, this
• 17:57
  shows that a sex change and I'm our assistant.
• 18:00
  Hello. Oh, I love this, he goes.
• 18:04
  You're mad, Fenderman, You're mad.
• 18:08
  I love, I love fenderman's reaction where he's like, well,
• 18:10
  then why are you talking to me like this?
• 18:12
  I've got a gun. And that's that's great because
• 18:14
  it's, it's also like a very, you would react like this.
• 18:17
  You'd just be like, well, if I'm mad, stop, I've got a gun.
• 18:19
  Stop talking to me like that. It's very human.
• 18:22
  That's what I. Say to all my guests, you know,
• 18:24
  I should be, I should be human. Surely, Surely.
• 18:27
  I should be given but but I think again, it just goes back
• 18:30
  to that thing. If they've got this relationship
• 18:31
  and and Fendleman's kind of yeah, he's not serious.
• 18:35
  Like he's he's, he's just playing along because he sees
• 18:38
  that Colby's like reacting in this way and he's like, well,
• 18:40
  you know, but let's talk this through.
• 18:43
  And Thea's there obviously been a bit like, not sure how much of
• 18:46
  this I believe. The idea of it as well of it
• 18:49
  coming through his bloodline, that's so interesting.
• 18:52
  So good and that's what I think you get his little breakdown
• 18:56
  when he's like mankind has been used.
• 18:58
  But like then I. Wanted.
• 19:00
  Something else up beyond that. And they do it in the yeah, the
• 19:05
  Big Finish sort of follow up where it's that thing of the
• 19:08
  family and it's like, yeah, so I feel like people felt the same
• 19:12
  as me. Like it's missing a little
• 19:14
  element of like what what happens then?
• 19:16
  Like is he the one that gets to like blow up the house?
• 19:19
  Is does he get to do something to kind of so?
• 19:22
  They called Fendelman's Island or something.
• 19:24
  It's called. Come on.
• 19:25
  Doctor, will you catch up, please?
• 19:28
  Yeah. Oh, and this, this stuff with
• 19:32
  Martina is is brilliant. I think it's really when.
• 19:35
  Leela looks after her as well, and it's.
• 19:37
  I won't let anything harm you. And it's genuinely, yeah,
• 19:41
  because Leela has that respect of she knows what a shaman is
• 19:44
  like. She knows that she she respects
• 19:46
  her in that way. But also, I think it's just
• 19:48
  very, very creepy that way of there's something that's kind of
• 19:54
  eating at you, this darkness that's getting your soul.
• 19:58
  But again, so we haven't seen, well, we have seen the fenderly
• 20:00
  now, but we don't know what that thing looks like.
• 20:03
  It's just an elemental force, which is terrifying.
• 20:06
  That the on the commentary, I think it's I swear it's Louise
• 20:10
  and wonders on there as well and they're both going they're both
• 20:14
  really fancied Adam Colby, the guy who and Louise goes.
• 20:18
  I was determined. I know it's our character, but I
• 20:20
  was determined I was going to kiss him.
• 20:22
  And she does. And she.
• 20:23
  Does she does. I love that kiss.
• 20:25
  That's great. That's yeah.
• 20:27
  Yeah, well, Badger just gets Lila though, doesn't he?
• 20:30
  He invented Lila. Yeah, he was.
• 20:32
  Going to say, yeah, she, she, she's, she's, she's his like.
• 20:34
  And and because of that one too, because of the face of evil
• 20:36
  robots of death, he just built her, constructed that character
• 20:39
  so, so well. And I love as well this is it's
• 20:44
  all done through dialogue, all this stuff and all, all of the
• 20:47
  explanation of the horror of the science, all of it.
• 20:51
  You, you have to focus on this story.
• 20:53
  It's not just a string of set pieces.
• 20:56
  No. And it comes through you.
• 20:58
  They express genuine kind of dread just through dialogue,
• 21:04
  which is that thing what we talked about earlier on about
• 21:06
  fear being like, you know, you haven't asked me whose planet
• 21:08
  is, it's really creepy. And Fenderman breaking down and
• 21:12
  being like, he asked me about my name and what that meant.
• 21:14
  And it's all. But yeah, you say it's all done
• 21:17
  through dialogue. And again.
• 21:18
  In there, via the scanner, I've traced a moment of death of the
• 21:22
  alien traveler all those years ago.
• 21:24
  Yeah, it's very clear. It's very clear though.
• 21:27
  That is a point though, Joe, for you to answer this question.
• 21:30
  What, what is the time scan? What is it?
• 21:34
  What are we expecting to see on the time scanner?
• 21:37
  Because Fendelman says, almost as if a picture is going to
• 21:40
  appear, he's like, we'll see. And is that so?
• 21:43
  Are we expecting like a, a genuine picture?
• 21:45
  What would the time scanner be doing?
• 21:48
  Well, I'm glad you are. So that's my PhD was in time
• 21:52
  scanners. OK, so I I'm perfectly in a
• 21:54
  position to explain to you a time scanner.
• 21:56
  You see, it scans time and yes, yes, yes.
• 22:00
  And then it will, it will literally pinpoint a moment of
• 22:03
  extinction for a specific creature.
• 22:06
  Yeah. And then give you a visual
• 22:08
  representation of the moment of their death.
• 22:11
  That's why they've got all those TV screens, but just in a series
• 22:14
  of sort of wibbly lines. Just wibbly lines.
• 22:16
  That's it. Yeah, right.
• 22:17
  Because there are points in the dialogue where they say it
• 22:20
  sounds like you're almost expecting.
• 22:21
  I kind of thought, I think the first time I watched it, I
• 22:24
  thought that it would show an image and that would be the
• 22:27
  image of the Fender. I thought that was kind of what
• 22:29
  we were getting to, but then like you say, it's just wibbly
• 22:32
  lines, which is fine. I've.
• 22:34
  Got an important question for you as well.
• 22:36
  Right. So, well, if mankind has been
• 22:38
  used. Yeah, by the fendile, OK And in
• 22:41
  mankais has been prodded by the demons and it's been poked,
• 22:46
  poked by the Jagger off. And, you know, we've been pushed
• 22:50
  along by all of these. I mean, have we achieved
• 22:53
  anything? No, it's funny that when you put
• 22:56
  those things together, the only bit of this is totally separate,
• 23:01
  but it's the only bit of Torchwood Miracle Day that I
• 23:04
  think I like is that you get at the very, very end.
• 23:08
  You get Gwen and Jack and Gwen's like Jack, what is the the
• 23:11
  secret of this giant hole we're staring into?
• 23:14
  And Jack's like is. That what you're calling it?
• 23:17
  Oh, yes. Oh yeah, yeah, the rectum of
• 23:20
  death, whatever it was. But then he's sort of like, oh,
• 23:22
  well, they say that potentially it's like silorian energy from
• 23:25
  the something, and he does this steel of like, and then Gwen's
• 23:27
  just like, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about,
• 23:29
  do you? He's like, no, I was like, yes,
• 23:31
  thank you. That's like the only bit that I
• 23:33
  was like, good you. Know my favorite bit of miracle
• 23:35
  day was when Doctor Veer was burned to death in that furnace.
• 23:40
  I mean, she was my favorite character and the whole thing,
• 23:42
  but I absolutely shocked me. I said that to her.
• 23:46
  I said that to Dylan. Actually, I said it.
• 23:48
  I remember watching him being like, oh, you know what would
• 23:49
  have been cool would have been if this character was Grace
• 23:52
  Holloway. And then they burned her and I
• 23:54
  was like, oh, that's. Doctor, it's getting hard in
• 23:59
  here. I thought.
• 24:03
  Now look at this for an actress come in and sort of roll
• 24:06
  straight, staring straight down the camera.
• 24:08
  He was hungry for my soul. That's all of that stuff about
• 24:12
  like the yeah, the the the sort of encroaching darkness of of
• 24:17
  the thing and it's so good just to it was they were hungry for
• 24:22
  my soul. Like that's brilliant.
• 24:24
  That's just one. The star the pentagram on the
• 24:29
  skull as well. And that is such a great image
• 24:32
  because they use that again in there's the book, isn't there,
• 24:34
  the taking of Planet 5 that that's essentially like the
• 24:37
  cover does. That make any sense to you that?
• 24:40
  No, but I mean, again, I felt like they were trying to plug
• 24:42
  gaps. Oh, I just have to say, I think
• 24:44
  the this scene is one of the best lit.
• 24:49
  It's it isn't it incredible? The framing, it's just such a
• 24:54
  that just taking like a screenshot of this scene is just
• 24:56
  brilliant. I think you'll find you know on
• 24:59
  my doc OH reviews. I did use a screenshot.
• 25:03
  On this. To to highlight the story.
• 25:05
  It's because of the lights coming off the.
• 25:08
  X-ray yeah, that's it. It's it's so, so good.
• 25:11
  And just the the intensity of it in this this sort of thing in
• 25:15
  kind of close up. And I said and like I say,
• 25:17
  Dennis Lille, what I think is a real shame.
• 25:20
  We're talking earlier about big Finnish survivors.
• 25:22
  I think it's a shame. I assume they tried to get him
• 25:24
  and he didn't want to do it, I assume.
• 25:26
  But I think it is a pity that he sort of disappeared off.
• 25:31
  I think he's still around now. I think he is, but I don't
• 25:34
  think. That Big Finish Survivors is so
• 25:36
  terrifying. I've always to listen to three
• 25:39
  seasons I. I think it's brilliant, but my
• 25:41
  God, it's bleak. Sometimes you get to the like,
• 25:44
  Chuck it out. At 1:00, where they're out in
• 25:46
  the woods and they pretend there was wolf attacks to lure people
• 25:50
  out and murder them. Oh my God.
• 25:52
  He goes, let's listen to it in the dark.
• 25:54
  I was like, no, please I'll. Take it I quite like as well in
• 25:58
  the first series they did is whether they stuck, they would
• 26:01
  get actors in just to do Cat because they don't have in the
• 26:04
  first series, they don't have Caroline Seymour.
• 26:05
  She just does one cameo. Yeah.
• 26:06
  And you're not expecting it and that's really nice.
• 26:08
  And they do that in the first Dark Shadows, where there's an
• 26:11
  actress who they. You don't care though.
• 26:13
  Chase Masterson. Chase Masterson, come.
• 26:17
  On back in Vienna. But to be honest, I'm still a
• 26:20
  bit gutted that they kind of left that hanging.
• 26:21
  The Chase Masterson stuff in that in in the audience.
• 26:24
  Doesn't she go off to America? We never hear from her again.
• 26:27
  You. Never hear from her again.
• 26:28
  Yeah, as far as I'm aware. And let's think to be in that
• 26:29
  follow up, Dave. I don't.
• 26:30
  Know. Yeah, the boat sank.
• 26:32
  Fuck. I mean, I said to Chase at a
• 26:35
  convention. I was like, you know, it's
• 26:37
  astonishing. You've got such acting talent
• 26:39
  and great tits. I mean, it's you've.
• 26:41
  Got the. Come on.
• 26:42
  Vienna series one. It was her face come Vienna
• 26:45
  Series 3 when the sales were down.
• 26:47
  You've seen that cover, right? They're cropping it upwards, but
• 26:53
  this again, the light box just looks great.
• 26:55
  But all this stuff with Thea and she gets I, I don't want to be,
• 26:59
  what's the word unfair Like in I think this the ending for Thea
• 27:03
  isn't great, but she she is great all the way through.
• 27:06
  And I think these this stuff, the superimposed is, is great.
• 27:11
  I think also the way she's it's genuinely upsetting the way Thea
• 27:14
  gets treated and gets sort of exploited and the when she's
• 27:18
  like asking for help and doesn't get help, she goes looking for
• 27:22
  the doctor and doesn't get help. And I know that that was who let
• 27:25
  the doctors. Who let the doctors?
• 27:26
  Exactly what I was going to. Say I thought it was her.
• 27:31
  On my rewatch preparing for this, I think it was Max because
• 27:35
  he wanted him gone so he let him out so that he can go like
• 27:40
  because God. He's.
• 27:41
  So creepy. So creepy.
• 27:43
  What are you doing here? The only slight another slight
• 27:46
  problem I think is that in the first episode, OK, he's
• 27:48
  obviously pretending, but he genuinely seems a bit surprised
• 27:51
  in the first episode by events and then suddenly here he's full
• 27:54
  on evil and you're like, were you not?
• 27:56
  Like what was what was going on before?
• 27:58
  He was having a great time pretending, that's what it.
• 28:00
  Was yeah, that's well, it's also at the end when he's like, he
• 28:03
  does his twisted thing of like, this isn't the way it should be,
• 28:05
  but it's like. But Max, you literally say said
• 28:07
  we must save a place for the one who kills.
• 28:10
  And So what were you expecting was going to happen when she
• 28:12
  started killing everyone? You're like, yeah.
• 28:15
  I have to think in episode 1, you know he walked out of the
• 28:17
  rooms and did an evil laugh every time he walked out You.
• 28:19
  Know we didn't hear it, but I mean what what Scott Frederick?
• 28:24
  I mean he's great in in Blake 7. He's also great as the same
• 28:29
  character in the Kaldor City follow-ups that then does link
• 28:32
  to Fendal as well. What's the day of the Daleks?
• 28:37
  Is he one of the terrorists? I think he.
• 28:40
  Is that's one of those where I'm like, oh fuck yeah.
• 28:44
  Yeah, he's there with Anna Barry, you know, smoking the
• 28:46
  cigarettes. I've had that a lot recently
• 28:48
  where it's that you know the other performance of a person.
• 28:51
  And it always surprises me. Toby Haddock usually mentions it
• 28:55
  and I go, really? Yeah, I mean the the biggest, it
• 28:58
  was the one when it was Alex Linstead where you're like.
• 29:00
  Oh, that, that revelation. Yeah, you're really like, no.
• 29:04
  Come on. I mean, we would say this is one
• 29:06
  of the Benton's best, but then we all remember Faroon from time
• 29:09
  and the round, so, you know, yeah, when she's crying for all
• 29:14
  that make up yet another victim. Wonderful, but I mean wonder
• 29:18
  then she she does she she floats above the material a lot of the
• 29:23
  time. But in this I think no, it's
• 29:25
  evenly matched. She's got good writings, she's
• 29:27
  doing well, but it's things like what's that film she's in with
• 29:30
  Peter Cushing, the blood beast terror.
• 29:32
  You ever seen that? It's not a good.
• 29:34
  Sound amazing? It's not.
• 29:37
  It's blood beast. It's terrible.
• 29:39
  It's a very bad film, but she is just in it looks brilliant, like
• 29:43
  she's just great in the role. But, and I won't tell you what
• 29:47
  came to mind when I thought of the blood beast terror, you
• 29:51
  don't want to know now, people, right on this cliffhanger.
• 29:55
  The reason I quite like it is because the Doctor's so flippant
• 29:58
  about, oh, he goes, oh, it's great.
• 30:00
  Skull I think the build up is. Brilliant.
• 30:02
  And then it just suddenly lashes out.
• 30:04
  Him doesn't. It Yeah, and Tom does pain I
• 30:08
  mean the the 4th doctor in pain is great love it right that
• 30:11
  that's sort of I mean. If you just took a picture now
• 30:14
  of that image. That's great.
• 30:16
  It's great. And I love the way, you know,
• 30:18
  that thing of the the objects glowing from within doesn't
• 30:21
  always work that well. But I think that look, the skull
• 30:24
  looks great. What I think Spenton Foster does
• 30:27
  really well, he's not the most dynamic of directors, but he's
• 30:30
  not given two of the most dynamic of stories.
• 30:33
  He's given rebos. And this one's a character tale
• 30:36
  and one's a character tale, you know, like, OK, once sort of it
• 30:39
  is a heist, but that's only part of the story.
• 30:42
  But he sort of moves in with the camera slowly and he builds up
• 30:47
  scenes slowly. And I think there's a place for
• 30:50
  that in 70s Doctor Who, because this isn't fast moving
• 30:53
  television. It never was in the 70s.
• 30:55
  No, and I think it's what if you get a director that understands
• 30:59
  the script that's so important because it there's so many times
• 31:02
  it doesn't happen and in both you've.
• 31:05
  Met Pennant Roberts. But in so many cases, Stanley
• 31:10
  Foster, like he, he just gets it.
• 31:11
  Every character you think Rebus operation, everyone's brilliant,
• 31:14
  like it. I don't think there's not.
• 31:16
  There's not a weak link in that either.
• 31:17
  It's the same. It's like everyone's understood
• 31:20
  the brief for their character, for what they need to be doing,
• 31:23
  and it works fantastically. I mean, the fact that this joke
• 31:27
  lands after a very sad death. Was that Bimro?
• 31:30
  Was it charming fellow, the little saw of him?
• 31:35
  Also because, yeah, I mean, Ian Cuthbertson is just an excellent
• 31:38
  actor as well. It's one of those where you, it
• 31:40
  must be a dream if you're the director and you get him and
• 31:43
  you're like, OK, like we could, you can do whatever you need to
• 31:45
  do. Sorry, I'm talking about another
• 31:48
  story now. What's he going?
• 31:50
  It was an Arab or something. Sydney Arbor for $50 million.
• 31:55
  He came after me with a machine gun.
• 31:57
  He's not. But it's, it's the, it's when
• 32:00
  he's doing his smarmy sails and when he's like the grade three
• 32:03
  planet, Oh, he's like, and, and then, and then he just switches
• 32:08
  and it's great. All of that stuff is brilliant.
• 32:10
  Oh boy, we may have to look at that one day, you and.
• 32:13
  Me. Imagine the.
• 32:14
  Fun. We went out watching Oh, but.
• 32:15
  It is. It's just absolutely.
• 32:17
  You'd have to put up with me going the bones.
• 32:19
  The bones, the one you seek, is here.
• 32:22
  And even that, I mean, there's bits of it where the sort of
• 32:26
  sticking on Rebus for a minute, but the the way the seeker gets
• 32:30
  killed is horrible. Like it's really upsetting.
• 32:33
  And she gets shot in the face. Yeah, it's just like and and
• 32:36
  it's and it's like cuz she's just like he's just like, Oh
• 32:39
  well, why is it She's like, oh, but one of us doomed to die.
• 32:41
  And he's like, well, you first or whatever.
• 32:43
  And she's like and it's very it's brutal and it's and it is
• 32:46
  well directed. I sort of yeah, I'm I feel he is
• 32:51
  unfairly maligned as a as a director.
• 32:53
  I think he does a really good job with what he's given.
• 32:56
  I could see people imagine, imagine Ben and Roberts doing
• 32:59
  Rebus operation. Like, no, don't, I mean, but
• 33:01
  like, you know, you get sometimes you're like
• 33:03
  terrifying. Someone could have absolutely.
• 33:06
  This could be an absolute dog and it's not.
• 33:09
  I mean, I know not everyone loves it, but I think it's AI
• 33:11
  think Rebus is a 5 out of five absolute banger.
• 33:14
  I think it's fantastic. Yeah, beautiful.
• 33:16
  Yeah, and I think some people would not have done that as well
• 33:19
  as he did. So I think, you know, massive
• 33:21
  respect for him. And I was looking at his sort of
• 33:23
  career and I haven't, apart from the Blake 7 stuff.
• 33:26
  I don't he didn't do much really.
• 33:29
  I you know, I and I felt and going by the notes on the DVD
• 33:33
  again, it sounded like, well, he came back for Rebos, so I assume
• 33:36
  it can't have been that bad. But it sounds like this maybe
• 33:38
  wasn't a great experience with Tom being Tom.
• 33:43
  And he didn't have a great experience on Blake 7 either
• 33:45
  because he he favoured certain actors over others and some of
• 33:48
  the cast didn't like him. And he reminds me a bit of
• 33:52
  Terrorist Dudley. He sort of pissed off all the
• 33:54
  wrong people all. The wrong people, yeah.
• 33:56
  You know, look what he put on the screen.
• 33:57
  So. This is it.
• 33:59
  And I think this is like I say again when you ask me which
• 34:02
  stories I'd like to do. I can't remember all the ones I
• 34:05
  said, but it was ones that I feel there's so much about them
• 34:08
  that I don't think obviously, you know, it's a classic Doctor
• 34:11
  Who. It's all been talked about at
• 34:12
  length by many people, but I. By us, though, Mike.
• 34:15
  No, and I did that's it. But like you say, you've done
• 34:18
  1000 episodes and no one did image of the Fender and that's a
• 34:20
  real. Shame.
• 34:22
  Wrong with people. But because I remember, I think
• 34:24
  one of the ones I said was enlightenment.
• 34:26
  And then you did that recently and I and I, but again, it's one
• 34:30
  of those again where I think some people sort of, it gets
• 34:32
  unfairly overlooked. Well, I think.
• 34:34
  Don't you worry Mike, we could talk about that.
• 34:36
  We didn't even talk about enlightenment once for the whole
• 34:38
  2 hours. So.
• 34:40
  It's still there, right for the picking.
• 34:41
  That one picking, we'll come back to it, yeah.
• 34:44
  You know, I feel as if I should end this episode with a Rebus
• 34:46
  style jogo. What was that prophecy, Martin?
• 34:50
  All but one episode to end. Well, end now.
• 34:58
  I'll end it.