Latest / The Other 16 Hours / Episode 6: Interview Tips and Hot Takes

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Episode 6: Interview Tips and Hot Takes · The Other 16 Hours

• Rachel Hawley: Hi everyone, welcome back to another episode of the Other 16 Hours podcast. Hey Morgan. Morgan Paul: Hello, how are we doing today? Rachel Hawley: We're doing well. Halloween weekend, which I feel like you either love it or you hate it. Actually, maybe you don't either love it or you hate it. I feel like I'm pretty in the middle. I will go to a Halloween party if I get invited to one, but if I don't have plans, I am totally fine not, you know, celebrating the holiday, not having to like rally for a costume. Morgan Paul: Same here. I think the biggest barrier for me is honestly a costume. I never want it I need it to be super original, but not high effort, which is just not in the same box or the same area. It's my voice like Rachel Hawley: Yeah. Morgan Paul: why, why? but I'm the same way. I'll go if I get invited, but my costume's gonna be more low effort. Like Rachel Hawley: Yeah, yeah, same. And the costume has to come to me. Like I I'm not that kind of person that thinks of their costume like a month or two months in advance. So Morgan Paul: No. Rachel Hawley: by the time I actually think of something and I'm on Amazon or a costume website, it's like this will come in November. Like this is out of stock. And I'm like, Great. But happens every year. So I should learn my lesson, but never have, never will. Morgan Paul: Yeah, no, same. I'll always bring the topic up of I need a Halloween costume, but I'll never actually do anything Rachel Hawley: Mm-hmm. Morgan Paul: about it. So that's that's always fun. But do we want to tell them what we're gonna be for Halloween since we are both partaking in festivities? Or are we gonna keep it a secret? I guess this Rachel Hawley: Yes, yeah. So Morgan Paul: w will be released in November, technically. So Rachel Hawley: Yeah, this will come out after Halloween, so we can we can share. I'm I'm proud of my costume. It it just came to me. It's not I don't know. I'm curious if a lot of people are gonna be this because the commercials are freaking everywhere. But Jason is going to be Lemo Emo, and I'm gonna be Liberty Bibberty. And I don't know if you've seen this on Instagram, but like my Instagram is all people protesting. Liberty Biberty and videos of Liberty Bibberty dying and people like really want Morgan Paul: What? Rachel Hawley: the Super Bowl people want the Super Bowl commercial for Liberty Mutual to be like Limu Emu punting Liberty Biberty into the sun. Morgan Paul: Wait, that's so funny. I need Rachel Hawley: Ha ha ha Morgan Paul: to none of this is not on my feed at the moment, so I I really need to I'm I'm looking at it. Liberty Biverty is under Rachel Hawley: I'll send you it. Morgan Paul: attack. Rachel Hawley: So when people ask, what are you being for Halloween? I'm like, I can't tell you, but I will tell you that my character is getting a lot of death threats. Morgan Paul: That is so funny. Wait. Then there's like a Jacob Rachel Hawley: So Morgan Paul: State Farm getting involved over here. But he's like not Jake. Rachel Hawley: Yeah, it is a s it is a saga. I did not know I was gonna be such a controversial character. But yeah, I have like a yellow onesie. Morgan Paul: Wait, this is hilarious. Rachel Hawley: I have a onesie, a tutu, my Statue of Liberty crown. I can't remember the last time I had an attractive Halloween costume. Like last year I was one of the guys from Breaking Bad, had a mustache on, a bald cap, like Morgan Paul: That is so funny. no, that's gonna be great. Rachel Hawley: But anyway, we'll see how it goes. Morgan Paul: I feel like I should have gone first because Rachel's is way better than mine. I'm not I don't even have one for the Halloween party I'm going to yet, but I'm gonna gonna conjure up one. Yeah. And then I'm Rachel Hawley: You'll rally. Yeah. Morgan Paul: running a ten K this weekend and I'm going as a princess and my boyfriend is going as my security guard and I'm doing this with another couple, so that will be fun. Rachel Hawley: I love that. What what colour are you wearing? are you channeling a certain princess? Morgan Paul: I was I was trying to, but I just wore blue for my last race. And so I'm like, mm, I can't wear blue. Rachel Hawley: Okay. Morgan Paul: I have to be a pink princess, right? Or a yellow princess. Ooh. Yeah. Rachel Hawley: You could be Rapunzel. You have long hair. I feel like you could be Rapunzel if you have a pink purpley color. Morgan Paul: I mean, I've got a lot of colors of workout set, so I think we'll be good there. I've Rachel Hawley: Yeah, I know. Morgan Paul: I so I just need to decide. Honestly, this is terrible, but I was like looking up some of the TikToks to see like which princess I could impersonate and then go from there. Rachel Hawley: yeah. Morgan Paul: Because I was like, I wanna do a fun transition. I may as well make this fun if I'm gonna do it. Rachel Hawley: I love that. I'm excited to see it. I should Morgan Paul: Yes. Rachel Hawley: start, watching Liberty Bibby commercials to really get my lines down. I'm just g Morgan Paul: Channel Yeah. Rachel Hawley: People are just gonna kick me when they see me. They're gonna like I'm gonna be stoned. Morgan Paul: Honestly. Is this an East Coast thing that I just like have completely missed? It seems like not. It seems like I'm just like not on the boat. Like my for you page is like people running marathons Rachel Hawley: Well let me look up Morgan Paul: and shoes. So Rachel Hawley: No, it's definitely being fed to me through the algorithm. Let me look up where the Liberty Mutual Headquarters are. Okay. yes. So the Liberty Mutual Headquarters are in Boston, Massachusetts. And there was a protest. There was a protest in Boston a couple of days ago. And now that makes sense because it is localized to me. So I'm gonna have to like really protect myself on the streets on Saturday night. Like if people see me, I could be arrested. Morgan Paul: You yeah. Can you imagine wait, that would be great. It like not great that you would get arrested, but that would be hilarious. If like a cop like a guy or someone dressed up as a cop comes to you and starts arresting you, like I would die. Rachel Hawley: my gosh, no, this is this is actually a great idea. This Halloween party is huge. Odds of there being a cop are high. Morgan Paul: yeah. Rachel Hawley: I'll have to try to see if I can get some content too. Morgan Paul: No, you absolutely have to. Rachel Hawley: I'll find Liberty Bibberty needs to be stopped. it'll happen this weekend. So anyway. Happy Halloween. Morgan Paul: my gosh. Okay, well, today we're gonna be talking. Yes, happy Halloween, everybody. I drop your comments or drop your costumes in the comments. We want to know what you wear for Halloween. Or if you hate Halloween, like yes. Apparently we need to plan. Rachel Hawley: Yes. Need inspo for next year. All are welcome. Morgan Paul: okay, but today we are gonna be talking about two different things. First of all, we're gonna talk through Some fellowship interview stuff, as we know that fellowship season is upon us, and most of you are interviewing. And I know that Rachel in particular can shed some light on questions she's getting from individuals. I have just not been monitoring my email box as well as I probably should in terms of responding to fellowship inquiries. So if you guys do have a question, DM me. I will respond fancy. faster I promise. But anyways, Rachel Hawley: It's so hard. Yeah. Yes. I've gotten some so I've been mentoring a couple of students through this process and it's great in that a lot of them are getting a ton of interviews. They're moving on to from first rounds to second rounds. And I feel like there's an important mindset shift that has to happen, especially as you're progressing through. And I feel like your strategy needs to somewhat shift in that at the end of the day, these fellowships Have one position. So they're choosing one fellow. Maybe it's multiple, but oftentimes, it's it's one person. And more so on the candidate side, you have to pick one position in the end two. So I feel like at the beginning it's, you know, it's a this this mindset where I don't know, you want to get as many interviews as possible. You want to like progress forward with as many programs as possible, which I don't disagree with. Like the more options, the better. But At the like you're gonna get to the end and maybe you have multiple final round interviews and you're gonna to make a choice. And if you haven't been asking specific questions or listening just for I don't know, specific pieces about the fellowship program that are really important to, you know, tune into, you could be stuck feeling like, I actually don't know like what I'm going to decide if I have multiple offers in the end. So Just wanted to chat a bit about our strategy with that and different questions that we asked or things that we listened for to try to figure out at the end of the day, where your best fit is and how you can weave that strategy into the fellowship interview process when you're in those second, third, final round interview stages. Morgan Paul: Yeah, absolutely. And so I think the big thing from that is as you're getting into right past the screening round interviews or you're meeting with the panel that is going to be your manager or the team that you work with, right? So I know that one caveat to a lot of these things is a lot of things, at least in my organization, change rather frequently. And so you may like Make sure you're getting to know everybody on that team, not just the fellowship director, right? But there are circumstances where you will join a team like N a therapeutic area and your fellowship director will no longer either be there or they've moved to a different area and or you don't they just they just no longer are your fellowship director. And so you want to make sure that even if you're going from hindsight from my perspective, I really tried to get to know the fellowship director and I didn't do a good enough job of getting to know everybody on the team that was interviewing me. And I know you only have 30 minutes, but make sure you kind of like do your research on all of them because they might not be the person you're like directly reporting to from a day to day perspective as well. I guess did that happen to you during your fellowship? Rachel Hawley: Yeah, I was supposed to have like co-preceptors, and Morgan Paul: Yeah. Rachel Hawley: one of the preceptors ended up like leaving the company before I even started. that was not something that I knew was even an option. But to your point, like now that we're in industry, we understand and we have experienced how much people change companies or change teams. Like layoffs can happen, mergers can happen, like even bigger things can happen than what we've experienced. But I think that's great advice. getting to know the full team. we both were in medical as fellows. So you're interviewing maybe with people that seem more tangential. you're interviewing with someone from training or field medical or medical communications. And you're like, well, this isn't necessarily the like program. they're not on the team that I'm necessarily going to be with. But at the end of the day, you never really know. Like the Morgan Paul: Yes. Rachel Hawley: six months or so that happens between when you're interviewing, get an offer, and then when you start, a lot can change in that amount of time. So I think that's great advice to just really get to know everybody, what their priorities are, what their focus is, more so like their mentorship style, their precepting style, how they Morgan Paul: Yes. Rachel Hawley: give feedback, like what their goals are for fellows, like what they see fellows' long-term trajectory being, how they're gonna help get them from point A to point B is so important to ask everyone, not just who you think is going to be your preceptor or who the preceptor is on the fellowship brochure. Because more often than not, that person may not be the person that you're working with most closely during fellowship. Morgan Paul: Yeah. I think a good point that I wanna call out additionally from that is you're probably thinking, Well, I only have thirty minutes with these people and I have five minutes to ask questions. And so when Rachel mentioned getting to know all these people a little bit deeper, we're talking probably a little bit further down the road, whether it's you're Rachel Hawley: Mm-hmm. Morgan Paul: spending all day at the company and you also have a presentation that you have to give. I know it's very comfortable to get to know the other fellows that are in interviewing, because I think that's more commonly what I did. But if I were to go back, I would probably try and get a few a little bit more one-on-one time with them and not just know about the program itself, but how they are as people and individuals. And so I think if you do get the opportunity to interview in person and or Go to meet the team at mid-year and they take you out to dinner. Or if you go, I don't know, if if they give you opportunities for that like one-on-one time, like make sure you ask those questions. Like, what's your leadership style? Like, how do you give feedback? Because I personally love constructive feedback. And some people don't like that, right? Some people don't, I don't want to say don't value that, but like some people like be told what to do in a different pattern. And coming from pharmacy school, I think the one of the biggest things that we are accustomed to is the preceptor telling us exactly what to do, when to do it, when it's due, how to get it done, and the process that comes behind it. And so industry is definitely a new space where you do have a lot of autonomy to get a bunch of different things done. So you need to understand, doubling down on what Rachel said, their style that they like to lead people with. Rachel Hawley: And to your point, like asking that person directly, I think is, you know, like go to the source. Like you could ask that question to the current fellow, but to your point, like everybody has different ways in which they like to receive feedback. So like your your what your preferred method could be completely different than the current fellow. So, you Morgan Paul: Mm-hmm. Rachel Hawley: know, what they say may work for them, but it may not work for you. So understanding those answers directly from the preceptor or the people that you would be, you know, working with supporting is is definitely ideal. And like you said, these are oftentimes 30 minute interviews. You have five minutes, maybe 10 at the end to ask questions. So just really being strategic and trying to optimize that time as much as possible and like ask those important questions that you need answers to to help inform your decision down the line is great approach, but I honestly think it's a really hard thing to do because you're just in that mindset. I just want a fellowship, gonna make it work regardless. And even similar with like first jobs, you're like, I just want my full-time job. And I feel Morgan Paul: Yes. Rachel Hawley: like as you progress in your career, you start to learn more about what you like, what you don't like, how you operate. And you get more pointed in the questions you ask and try to figure out not only are you a good fit for the team, but is the team a good fit for what you're looking for in your professional growth? And it definitely takes time. Like it's something that I'm still working on, but practicing and building those skills, asking those questions during fellowship interviews is is really important because yeah, I feel like there are some people that end up in these fellowships that are like, actually, I wish I asked questions differently or like would have understood this a little bit better. Because maybe I'd be somewhere else that's a better fit. Morgan Paul: Yeah, absolutely. I think the other point that you brought up earlier that I know we've discussed on a previous episode, but I think this is very apparent to what you just said. That the fellowship can sometimes feel like a game. I think we've like discussed this before, right? Rachel Hawley: Mm. Morgan Paul: Where you at least for Rachel and I as look people we consider I guess high high achievers, we like to gamify these people like me, or I moved on to the next round. And then I unfortunately did this. And so I didn't take the time to zoom out and realize what I wanted more than like just like the idea of like, like I'm getting like another round from this person. Like check versus like, Rachel Hawley: Yeah. Morgan Paul: do I actually like this program? Because I will tell you, unfortunately, I did go to a on-site, and you don't know until you go on site or like go visit. So I think it's still Rachel Hawley: Yeah. Morgan Paul: important to do that. But I was considering taking a fellowship that was very, very interested in me, but I definitely w it was not ranked from when I started the fellowship process at a high level. And I think like the actual work that I would have been doing would not have been something I wanted to do. But because there was such significant interest in me, I was like, well, like I totally should go this is where I should direct myself. And so I think that's very important to stay level headed and realize that like they're trying to recruit you. it's like they're trying to recruit you and they want you to be there. And so of course they're going to like throw out all these like bells and whistles, but at the end of the day, Rachel Hawley: Mm-hmm. Morgan Paul: like is it the right decision for you? Rachel Hawley: Yeah. Yeah. Completely agree. their goal is to get a fellow. And Morgan Paul: Mm-hmm. Rachel Hawley: obviously they want to get a good fellow. They want someone who's hardworking. They want someone who is a good fit. But at the end of the day, it's a spot that they're trying to fill. And they're definitely gonna be like as strategic about it as possible and try to get, best of the best. But it falls on the candidate to s really be strategic and smart and figure out okay where actually is my best fit and Morgan Paul: Mm. Rachel Hawley: how do I ask questions and like observe behaviors to be confident that I'm s accepting an offer from that that place that is the best fit. And I I know students that have like cut ties or you know they're the ones that said I'm gonna pull myself out of this program, because It doesn't align with what they're looking for. And I think that's super admirable. So don't be afraid to Morgan Paul: Would agree. Rachel Hawley: do that. But I know it is a scary thing because you're like, well, what if I don't get anything in the end? And this was the only place that I could have gotten an offer from. So hindsight is also 2020. But if you are getting like red flags or just feel like the connection or you know the program isn't what you're looking for, there's nothing wrong with. respectfully declining a future interview. Morgan Paul: Yeah. And I I think even having been part of one, the recruitment process and then the interview process for our next fellow, because I've been fortunate enough to stay on the same team now, like within where I did my fellowship. So I've been very integrated into the fellowship process. And this happens all the time, where not students necessarily pull out, but we've got our eye on ex candidate and ex candidate exposes to me that they're really not even sure that they want to do this. And so I think Rachel Hawley: Mm-hmm. Morgan Paul: having that emotional intelligence is super important. And I obviously like came from a different lens. I was a fellow, so I sympathize with everything that they're going through. But if you get to the end of the process and you're like, mmm, I don't even know if this is for me. Like I think I think we should try and like for future generations get that moving forward where you really know what you want to do. Yeah, if we Rachel Hawley: Avoid that. Yeah. Morgan Paul: can avoid that, that'd be great. Because I think that just also puts the company in in a tough spot too. Rachel Hawley: So yeah, I think it's important for people to know that when you are a candidate, you are in the power seat. you have a lot more control than you may think you have. And looking back, I was much more stressed as a fellow recruiting a candidate than I was as the candidate. Morgan Paul: so much more stressful. Rachel Hawley: Yeah. I would much rather be the candidate again than be the program that's recruiting. But I could be an N of one. That could be that could be an unpopular opinion. Speaking of Morgan Paul: No, I no, I'm I'm totally with you. Rachel Hawley: Speaking of unpopular opinions, anything else you want to talk Morgan Paul: Mm-hmm. Rachel Hawley: about related to fellowships? Morgan Paul: let's rapid fire off like three or four different questions we would ask an interview panel. I think that would be helpful as we close out this segment and go into our more unpopular opinions. and maybe these questions Rachel Hawley: Love it. Morgan Paul: can lead into being our unpopular questions or unpopular opinions. But I think the first question for me that I wish I would have asked is what is your I think I did ask this in one of them actually, but I wish I would have asked it in every single one. It's like, what is your leadership style? I think that's super important to understand from being a being in the organization what that looks like. Cause you could have a boss that is extremely direct or extremely hands off. And so I think that's important. Rachel Hawley: I I think that's a great question to ask. what is your leadership style? What is your your mentorship style? Morgan Paul: Mm. Rachel Hawley: something to get along the lines of, what will that dynamic be like between the two of you I feel like to to a lot of things. Like are they more direct? Are they more passive? Do they, you know, provide direct feedback? What is the frequency? You don't need to necessarily get that nuanced, but Something along the lines of understanding how they lead and how they, run a team and support their reports. I would also ask something along the lines of just like what is their goal for a fellow? Morgan Paul: Yes. Rachel Hawley: how do they define success in a fellow or in a fellowship program? I think you can leave it open-ended and see how they take it. But ideally. Morgan Paul: Yeah. Rachel Hawley: seeing growth, creating an environment for the fellow to experience a lot of different things, learn Morgan Paul: Mm-hmm. Rachel Hawley: a lot, develop from being more support to being more of a lead, taking ownership of projects. And then like at the end of the day, hopefully they say like the goal if if there's headcount is like retention full time, or just like making sure that the fellow lands a full time position somewhere, I Morgan Paul: Yes. Rachel Hawley: think is important things to listen for. Morgan Paul: Think that's different than asking about the retention rate of the program. And I think that's a very important Rachel Hawley: Mm-hmm. Morgan Paul: call-out that your mentor is going to dictate how well you are able to network throughout the company or whoever's leading your fellowship program, right? And that connection is so much more important than the retention rate of the program. And so I think. Getting like that's a very important, intelligent question to ask is what is your goal for me as a fellow if I were to join? So I love that because you can ask what's your retention rate, but you guys, you can also Rachel Hawley: Yeah. Morgan Paul: look at that. And that's like a fine surface level question to ask to like the fellow or something like that. And so this is like a deeper dive into what I think is super valuable when it comes to actually being retained. The other question I think before we transition, I'll I'll do one more is what is your like what is your thought on cross-functional collaboration or projects? Because I think it depends on who you get, on where they allow you to explore within the organization. And so making sure that you understand that if this program only lets you stay and do medical affairs projects within your therapeutic area, you need to be okay with that. Versus are they going to allow you to do stretch projects with commercial or market access or Rachel Hawley: Yeah. Morgan Paul: the field team is super important. Rachel Hawley: I think that's a good one ask as well. getting a wide range of experiences as a fellow with cross-functional teams, whether, you know, it's it's really important to just understand a 360 view of the company of how teams operate. And you definitely could land in a program where they are like no, like you were hired to be the medical affairs fellow, you're only gonna be focusing on medical affairs. Morgan Paul: Yes. Yes. Rachel Hawley: And if you didn't ask that question, then you would be like, Yeah, you're right. That's true. That's the contract that I signed. Said medical affairs and I signed it. Morgan Paul: Mm-hmm. Yep. Rachel Hawley: Didn't say anything about other things. So getting those feelers I think is a great thing to ask too because it'll just help you as a early career professional and, you know. I've moved around very early on in my career and a lot of that was because I had room to explore and I Morgan Paul: Mm. Rachel Hawley: had like managers that were very supportive of exploration. So definitely great thing to ask early on. I love that. Morgan Paul: Yeah, no. I think I think that's that's a learning experience that I took. I was always interested in multiple functional areas and not always having I think there was flexibility, but there wasn't always the time to explore those options. So having that as a backbone I think is important. But maybe that maybe that's an unpopular opinion and that's where we're gonna shift our our focus. so there's Obviously a lot of hot topics in the world, so we wanted to talk about a few of them. Rachel Hawley: We thought they'd be a fun thing to discuss. And I feel like we can Morgan Paul: Yeah. Rachel Hawley: start with work and career hot takes. Okay, I'll start. Networking is just making friends with a professional agenda. Do you agree or disagree? Morgan Paul: I I don't know if I've heard that, but I I agree. But I also Rachel Hawley: I agree. Morgan Paul: I think it shifts depending on the position you're in. So if we're talking to incoming fellows or those that just started at the company. Networking is like just trying to get to know other people. But a as you progress in your role, I think this becomes extremely true. you make sure you're friends with the right people and if something comes along, you're the first on their list because you're either friends with them or they know you want to go somewhere else. Rachel Hawley: Yeah, I would agree. if I'm setting up a one-on-one with someone right now, it's not because I want to be their friend. It's because I want to start to build that relationship, but I want to understand their career path, ask some very pointed strategic questions that could, help advance my own career. But then I think it like you said, it evolves because if you do really click with someone, then it could totally turn into just a friendship and it's no longer networking, then it's just you have a work friendship but I feel like initially like there's usually some sort of intent behind it and I don't think that is a bad thing at all. Everybody's doing it in my opinion. Morgan Paul: Yeah, no, I agree. This this one is fun. I I feel like this one pertains to the podcast in in in general. Is work life balance is more about boundaries than the number of hours that you work. Rachel Hawley: Yeah. I would agree. I think. I'm trying to understand this one. Morgan Paul: I think the reason I I picked this one is because oftentimes I think there's certain roles within companies that can be understood as like, well this person only works X amount of hours per week versus this person works ten times more hours or ten times less hours than this person. And I think that it's what you make it. So I have a really good mentor that works normal business hours and as soon as those normal business hours are done they are done for the day and that is it Rachel Hawley: Mm-hmm. Morgan Paul: like don't call don't text because I won't answer and so I think that's super super important in finding your own way of what your own work life balance means. And I don't necessarily think that means that you work X amount of hours. Because we're all salaried. We're we're a salary employees. Like Rachel Hawley: Yep, no matter what. Morgan Paul: I think a good example of that is being in the field because you for example, I just worked on the weekend, like all weekend. And then Rachel Hawley: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Morgan Paul: I'm taking calls at like random times of the day based on different time zones. And sometimes you're working dinners. Rachel Hawley: Yeah, and based on customer need. Morgan Paul: Yeah, it's it's it's Rachel Hawley: Yep. Morgan Paul: based on who you serve versus if you're in a headquarters role, you probably work more of a traditional Rachel Hawley: Yeah. So I'd agree with that. Work life balance is more about boundaries. I think work-life balance is so individual and like depending Morgan Paul: So individual. Rachel Hawley: on the environment you work in, it it's something that you decide whether or not you have or if it's something that you need to work on establishing better. Because Morgan Paul: Mm. Rachel Hawley: on the team that I'm on, we talk about it. Like, do you prefer to log in early? do you prefer to log on in the evening once your kids are asleep? Do you mind working on the weekend? Like some people would hear someone working on the weekend, not at a conference, just logging on their computer and getting some work done. And they would think that person has zero work life balance. But maybe to that person, they don't mind. They're like, I don't mind going on my laptop for an hour on a Saturday morning while I'm having my coffee and I have some downtime to knock out some busy work to set myself up for success for the week. So I feel like Morgan Paul: yeah. Rachel Hawley: it's all about how you define and set that boundary. so I would agree, I guess then work-life balance is more about boundaries than the number of hours you work. Morgan Paul: Yep, absolutely. And I I don't even think it's boundaries. so I have two phones for work and I will carry them both. And if someone calls me at six PM, I'm probably gonna answer just because like I have it with me, Unless I'm like doing something that I don't or like if someone sends me an email and it's a quick response, I'll respond. I I don't have a problem with that. But some people would be like, Absolutely not. Blah blah blah. Rachel Hawley: No, you don't have to. It's like not requirements, not the expectation. Some people, yeah, the second five o'clock hits, that phone is going like locked in a drawer somewhere and Morgan Paul: to say Rachel Hawley: they will not see it, will not respond. So Morgan Paul: Yeah, I think it's give and take. Rachel Hawley: Very individual. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Okay, let me try to think of one other one for career. Okay, this one is hot take. Morgan Paul: So Rachel Hawley: you don't need to be passionate about your job. Morgan Paul: I a thousand percent agree, but I think it also depends on what the role you're doing. Rachel Hawley: Yeah. Morgan Paul: What do you think? Rachel Hawley: I don't it's such a hot take. Yeah, I don't think so either. you don't, your job does not need to be your life. For some people, their job is their life's work. Again, it's just very individual. But if you see your job as something that you're good at and it's how you, it's like the means to the end, it's how you make money, it's how you fund your life, your family, whatever. And that's all that it is, that's totally fine. I feel like it probably Morgan Paul: I totally agree with you. Rachel Hawley: it may, it may fit in some. Areas better than others. if you're, I don't know, doing nonprofit work, you probably have have a personality where you are very passionate about your life's work and it is like your mission to do whatever. but for other people, like it's totally fine if it's just like a skill set that you're you're good at, it pays good money, and you don't mind it, you don't have to be passionate about it, in my opinion. Morgan Paul: Yeah. I I one thousand percent agree. I think it's sometimes it's just about the paycheck. Obviously, I think our roles are a little bit a little bit different. I'd like to hope that people that are in this space are a little bit different. But if if you're not like maybe you're really good at Excel spreadsheets and like that's what you do within an organization. I think this is like outside of the pharma world is like, yeah, I'm terrible at spreadsheets. So yeah, I would absolutely hate it, but if I got a paycheck for it. And this w that was my only option, totally fine. Moving on. Rachel Hawley: Yeah. Yep. Agreed. But I do think being passionate about your job, enjoying your job, enjoying the people you work with definitely, helps and just makes it easier. So these are also individualized. Morgan Paul: yeah. It it definitely helps. But I I also I think a another hot take there, to add on to that is you shouldn't make your passion, your enti your job, Rachel Hawley: Mm-hmm. Morgan Paul: your full time thing, because it can turn into something you grow to hate. Rachel Hawley: Yeah, yeah. I think that might be one in another section. Let me find it. Ts. You where is it? Something about not everything needs to be monetized. like not every hobby. Morgan Paul: Not every hobby needs to become a side hustle. Rachel Hawley: yeah, yes, there it is. Not every hobby needs to become a side hustle. Morgan Paul: Yeah, I totally agree. But I'm guilty of doing that. Rachel Hawley: You agree. I was like, this is U to a T which I mad respect. Morgan Paul: how can I make money during all of this? yeah, I totally agree. That's stupid. You don't need to do that. And then I'm like, well well maybe I can do it. Rachel Hawley: Literally again, to each their own. I think like I origin I used to have that mindset, but then I just realized I just don't have time, bandwidth, energy. And at this point, like I just just don't care. But yeah, I would agree with this one. not every hobby needs to become a side hustle. But I do think our personalities are ambitious and we're always like thinking, how can we like take this one step further and like Morgan Paul: Yeah. Rachel Hawley: squeeze a little bit more out of something? Make the most of it. Hence this podcast. Yeah, literally we were like, How could we Morgan Paul: what do you do what do you do at Thursday morning on at seven AM? I record a podcast. Like It's okay, that's a pick me problem. Rachel Hawley: Like let's seriously, like let's just record our conversations and put online for all to hear because Morgan Paul: Because why not? Rachel Hawley: If you want to sponsor us, please reach out. Morgan Paul: Yeah. No, we're not we're not this is what we're gonna not monetize. Just kidding. I'm just kidding, totally Rachel Hawley: Ha ha. Morgan Paul: kidding. Please, please sponsor us if you want to. okay, let's let's stick Rachel Hawley: Okay, you pick another one. Morgan Paul: to the wellness and lifestyle section. hmm. I I like this one a lot. You don't need an elaborate morning routine to be successful. Rachel Hawley: agreed. I think a very simple morning routine that's how I would define success. I feel like I have a very simple routine and it's not stressful. It gets the job done and and I'm not necessarily like married to it. and I Morgan Paul: Mm. Rachel Hawley: actually feel like that's how I would define success is that there's flexibility in it and it's not gonna derail my day if something doesn't go to plan. So Morgan Paul: Yep, I agree. I think elaborate, unnecessary, but routine is necessary. So maybe that's maybe that's a little Rachel Hawley: Yes. Yeah. Morgan Paul: bit of the opposite, but you need a routine Rachel Hawley: Yeah. Morgan Paul: that you can stick to. And if you can't stick to it, then you shouldn't be doing it. Rachel Hawley: Yeah. Like that. Morgan Paul: Love it. Rachel Hawley: I'm curious your thoughts on this one. group fitness classes are worth the money. In my opinion, Morgan Paul: Yeah. Rachel Hawley: they totally are. I love group fitness. I love like the competitive mindset trickles in. Like, I honestly will find somebody who is crushing it, and then I'm like, I need to be better than them. So I love group fitness classes because I do really think they make me push myself one degree more. Curious your thoughts on that one. Morgan Paul: I feel like I have a hot take that that could go both ways. I think yes, for your point, extremely valid. But my hot take is that it depends on what you if you want results or if you have a specific goal. No, I don't think your fitness is for you if you have a specific goal. If you're training for something Rachel Hawley: Mm. Morgan Paul: or if you have an aesthetic goal. You gotta lift weights and that's gotta be your thing. It's gotta be boring, it's gotta be independent. You just gotta do it on your own because of the variability Rachel Hawley: Gotta stick to it. Yeah. Morgan Paul: within the group fitness space, right? So I love it. I love group fitness classes. Like, don't get me wrong, I teach group fitness classes. But if you're going for a certain goal or trying to accomplish something, there's too much variability in what you do. So if you go to Orange Theory one day, you're gonna be rowing and running and then lifting weights, but you could go to another group strength class the next day and you're gonna be you could be doing the exact same muscles and then you're only doing those muscles. Or it's so variable Rachel Hawley: Mm mm. Morgan Paul: that you aren't doing the exact same or that the the muscle patterns don't make sense, right? Muscle works on memory, not on like this activity. So for activity and competitiveness, yes. For a strategic goal. Rachel Hawley: I like that. Yeah. Morgan Paul: Is that a hot take? I think that's a little bit of a hot take. Yeah. Rachel Hawley: I feel like yeah, yeah, and I feel like that intrinsic motivation oftentimes comes more when you're like on your own and you just need to figure out for yourself and you need to hold yourself accountable. I think that goes hand in hand. It is. Morgan Paul: Mm-hmm. But that's so hard. So I get why the group fitness space just pops off. Rachel Hawley: Totally, totally. Just walk in, tell me what to do. Scream at me and I'll do it. Morgan Paul: Yeah, exactly. And then you're done. you gotta go sweating, the endorphins are going, you're moving on with your day. Rachel Hawley: I have one. Morgan Paul: Ooh, okay, yeah, you go and then I have once. Rachel Hawley: Okay. You should be allowed to cancel plans just because you don't feel like going. Morgan Paul: Yes, hands down. Absolutely. What do you think of that? Wait wait, do you tell them that you Rachel Hawley: I I wanna Morgan Paul: you don't feel like going, or are you lying? Rachel Hawley: you'd have to lie. Which is I think you should not be allowed to cancel plans just because you feel you don't feel like going. Which maybe Morgan Paul: Okay. I love that. Rachel Hawley: is a hot take. I feel like if you committed Morgan Paul: Why why do you think that? Rachel Hawley: I don't know. I think you should follow through if you said you were gonna do something and it's not and like your excuse isn't you're sick or some sort of like emergency came up. Morgan Paul: Mm. Rachel Hawley: I feel like you should follow through on the plans. Like thinking of Morgan Paul: Do you think you should be strategic in what you say yes to then? Rachel Hawley: Hundred percent. I totally think you should be strategic about what you say yes to. Like definitely just don't say yes to anything, especially if Morgan Paul: Mm. Rachel Hawley: it doesn't serve you. But like if you've like given someone your word or you've committed to doing something, you should do it. Like as an example, I'm in a garden club in my neighborhood. Sometimes I just really don't feel like going. it's been a long day at work. And I'm just tired. I'd rather just relax. But I'm like, no, I gave these people my word. I said this time and date worked for me. I'm gonna be there because I told them I was going to. I think it's how you like build trust, credibility. relationships, like being there for people. So Morgan Paul: No, I I agree with you. I just wish there was a button that I could be like, no, I actually don't want to go. But you're right. I think the Rachel Hawley: I know. Morgan Paul: when you commit to something you should you should really be you should go. But I just sometimes wish that I'm like, hmm if someone cancels, I'm never Rachel Hawley: Yeah. Morgan Paul: like upset. Rachel Hawley: Yeah, no same. And honestly, and I feel like more often than not, once you're there, you're very happy you got yourself there and you're like, Okay, this wasn't so bad. Morgan Paul: Absolutely. Absolutely. Okay. Rachel Hawley: So okay, what was the one you were gonna say? Morgan Paul: The one I was gonna say is what is a trend you refuse to participate in? I I can go Rachel Hawley: Mm. Morgan Paul: first. So there's this shoe trend Rachel Hawley: Yeah, give me Morgan Paul: that that I'm like I'm wary that I may get myself in trouble by saying this. But they're like these camel toe shoes. They're flats. Yes, Rachel Hawley: yeah, those ballet flats. Yeah. Morgan Paul: they're ballet flats. And I just I can't do it. I can't do it right now. Rachel Hawley: Why can I see you wearing those? I feel like you're so trendy. I feel like I can see you w rocking those. Morgan Paul: Well, I know so that's the problem is I'm like, I they're everywhere on my page. I want to wear them, but I just know I will get roasted for them. So I'm like, nope, I'm not gonna do it. I can't do it. Because then I see them in store and I'm like, these are ugly. Rachel Hawley: yeah. Morgan Paul: These are so ugly. Like, why are we doing this? So that that that's a trend. Rachel Hawley: Yeah. Yeah. I agree with that. I Morgan Paul: I like I can't get myself to do it. Because I know I'm gonna look back and be like, Rachel Hawley: I love that. Morgan Paul: hmm. 'Cause admittedly I tried them on and been Rachel Hawley: What happened? Morgan Paul: like, I'm gonna take these home. And then I don't because Rachel Hawley: Mm-hmm. Morgan Paul: I'm like, I can't. I can't do it. Rachel Hawley: That's a good one. I'm trying to think of fashion things. I feel like I'm so easily Morgan Paul: anything. Rachel Hawley: swayed. Yeah. I know low rise jeans are coming back. I don't think that would be something that I would. I'm fine with a mid-rise, Morgan Paul: Mm no, no, no, no, no. Rachel Hawley: but I I'm not gonna I I can't do a low rise. I'm trying to think of like lifestyle things. I've never done mouth taping. I never will, but maybe that's because I don't have a problem. That I need to solve for. Or another thing lifestyle related is the definitely hot take, but I feel like supplements, like copious amounts of supplements. I mean, maybe you disagree on this one, but I take my vitamin D Morgan Paul: No, no, no, no. Mm-hmm. Rachel Hawley: and I will I have friends that have weekly pill boxes full of supplements. Morgan Paul: gosh. Rachel Hawley: Yeah, I don't think you'll ever find me doing that. Morgan Paul: Yeah, I don't I like to think I know I won't because I'm like, I totally agree with you. And now I'm like, Well, I do take this and take this but I think I can do it on all all Rachel Hawley: You're thinking you're thinking of your bottles. Morgan Paul: five fingers. Creatine, Rachel Hawley: Okay, it's got that. Morgan Paul: fish oil, vitamin D Rachel Hawley: I'm not consistent with creatine. Morgan Paul: That's fair. I feel like most people aren't, but I think there's studies to show that you don't necessarily have to be consistent, consistent with it. Air quotes. Creatine, vitamin D, fish oil, and iron. Rachel Hawley: I feel like those are all reasonable. Morgan Paul: Yeah, okay. But no multivitamins. I don't I don't mess around with multivitamin. You're like, you can get all that stuff in one thing, but I'm like, No, it's not the same. Rachel Hawley: I agree. I'm same exact way. my priority would be to just eat a very diverse diet with fruits, vegetables, whole grains, meat, to try to get all those things just from a quote natural source. But yeah, I feel like that's definitely a something that I will never do. I'd rather spend all that money on good food, high quality food. Morgan Paul: No supplements guys. Except the required ones that you if you don't eat fish like me. Yeah. Rachel Hawley: Unless you're deficient. Yes. Yes. You need your omega threes, you need your iron. You need your D three if you're a woman, especially living in a an environment that has winter lack of sunlight. Morgan Paul: How I would argue that everybody needs vitamin D that lives in the US. Unless you live in Florida. Yeah, we won't exclude them. Rachel Hawley: Yeah, then too. I'm not gonna exclude the then. Yeah, yeah. spending money on convenience is sometimes the smartest financial decision. Morgan Paul: Absolutely. I'm a convenience girly at heart. Rachel Hawley: Yeah. Morgan Paul: Time is money. Rachel Hawley: Can you think of what do you what's something that you spend your money on that makes your life more convenient? Morgan Paul: Grocery delivery, cleaning service. House gets cleaned once Rachel Hawley: Ha ha. Morgan Paul: a week. I got a list. These are all time is money. we sometimes Rachel Hawley: yeah, they love this. Morgan Paul: have a chef come and meal prep our food. Time is money. Rachel Hawley: my gosh, it's bougie. I love that. Morgan Paul: It is bougie, but it's the best thing ever. we get meals for a week, especially when we go away for the weekend. Then we Rachel Hawley: Mm-hmm. Morgan Paul: come home and the food's all ready to go. We get home on Saturday night, Sunday night. We can just eat something and have food for the week. One less dress. Rachel Hawley: I'm like I Morgan Paul: Well by yours Rachel Hawley: agree with this, but I'm trying to think of things that I spend my money on that make it that make my life more convenient. And it's hard to think of anything. I don't really do grocery delivery. I would like to. I just haven't done it. I feel like during pharmacy school I did HelloFresh and those meal delivery boxes were really nice actually. Morgan Paul: Mm-hmm. Rachel Hawley: should hire a house cleaner. I just feel like the cats would Morgan Paul: What about auto pay? I feel like auto pay is free, but that's a time optimization, time is money thing. Rachel Hawley: I have all that stuff automated. I like centralizing things, I guess. I have the Rocket Money app, which I like Morgan Paul: Mm. Rachel Hawley: it houses everything in one place. And I feel like for investing too, I have this app called Betterment and when it comes to money, just like take it away. set up, like auto withdrawal. I Morgan Paul: I don't want to see it. Rachel Hawley: don't wanna see it. Don't show it to me. Morgan Paul: 'Cause then I'm gonna want it. Yeah. Rachel Hawley: automatically do it. I'm not gonna do it on my own time. Just take it, put it away, make it grow and we'll leave it as that. Morgan Paul: Yes. I think those are good you're not necessarily spending money on them. Uber versus walk. Rachel Hawley: And then I guess Morgan Paul: Do you Uber places versus walk them? I feel like you're super good at preserving your money from that perspective. Rachel Hawley: I feel like I'm like I feel like I'm frugal for any, honestly. Yeah. I will maybe I actually disagree with this hot take or I don't practice it. I feel like I if if I can take the subway somewhere and it'll be two dollars versus like a twenty dollar Uber and it takes me ten minutes longer, I might just do the subway for the bit. probably very different from you. Morgan Paul: Yeah, very I it's we're different cities though. Like that's Rachel Hawley: Yeah. Morgan Paul: like a specific hot take. I try and do that, but most of the time I end up losing. Rachel Hawley: maybe I'll have a different opinion in in a couple of months. But for the time being, I feel like actually I'm pretty frugal. But you're giving me inspiration, so Morgan Paul: my gosh. Yeah. My to like I am that was like, I love this one. Groceries, cleaner, cook. And it's not even things I don't wanna do. I just don't feel like I have time for them and I won't prioritize them if I do. Rachel Hawley: let's do one more. I feel like I've changed a lot with some of these. Like we don't need to turn every life milestone into a photo shoot. Not every vacation needs to be documented. I honestly feel like I've gotten a lot worse at documenting things. And I don't necessarily know why. Like in some ways it makes me a little bit sad. I loved creating very elaborate reels to recap something and I love looking back on them. Cause Morgan Paul: Yeah. Rachel Hawley: the music of the time, I feel like puts me back in that place and it's just like a fun way to look back on a memory. But then I also try to be more present and not Morgan Paul: Yeah. Rachel Hawley: maybe document things or I don't know. Morgan Paul: I agree with you. I think let's combine the two. So not every vacation needs to be documented. True, but I miss when I don't document it. Rachel Hawley: Exactly. I feel the same lines. Morgan Paul: The thing about I I think the stigma behind we don't need to turn everything into a photo shoot and you can undocument your vacations has become something from the influencer culture, right? Quotes on the culture Rachel Hawley: Mm-hmm. Morgan Paul: that like everyone has their phone out all the time. I think super appropriate to document, super not appropriate to edit and post within the same time period that you are supposed to be spending. Personal time with people. Rachel Hawley: Ooh, I love that. Morgan Paul: I feel like the and possibly the reason that you may feel that way, right, is your like recaps. Like I loved watching those recaps. I yeah, I haven't seen one in a minute, so we should bring you should bring Rachel Hawley: Mm-hmm. Morgan Paul: those back. But like I feel like there's so much pressure to post in real time, especially from like a I want to show my audience what I'm doing, but if you're doing it Rachel Hawley: Yeah. Morgan Paul: for the sake of like having a recap. Then I think it's fine. take your photos, your see what you like, see what you don't like. If you want to retake them, sure. Right, cause that you want to post them, but don't be annoying about it. Don't then go sit in a corner or sit at dinner and stare at your phone and be like, I have to get this up now. I think that's the most annoying thing on the planet. The problem with that is I do think you lose sight of wanting to get it up and edited. That's the that's the balance you have to try Rachel Hawley: Yes. Morgan Paul: and find. Rachel Hawley: I completely, completely agree. And I think this is something I've seen some people do is they'll like post a dump from a trip like six months later. And I'm like, there's nothing. I'm like, I actually love that. Or like literally a year ago. They like, yeah, I went to Spain. Here's the trip. So Morgan Paul: Mm. Rachel Hawley: I think it's a personal thing that I need to work on. I feel like everything needs to be captured in the moment and posted relatively in the moment because I'll lose momentum. And Morgan Paul: Mm-hmm. Rachel Hawley: it doesn't need to be that way. nobody actually cares. recap posts are great. Like a dump from the summer or here's a trip that I went on. I'm posting it a couple weeks later. It was great. Morgan Paul: Yeah. Rachel Hawley: Like I have a couple Morgan Paul: No, go ahead. Rachel Hawley: of reels that I've made for industry for MD, just like day in the lifes. And now I'm like, well, that was a couple of days ago and I didn't post it, so I probably won't post it. And why just freaking post it? Who cares? Morgan Paul: Yeah, no, I agree. social media is fake in general, right? Like everything is fake. Like it's it's not not fake, but it's fake, right? So Rachel Hawley: It's added it's no, it's so edited, it's so curated. Morgan Paul: Right. I think the the thing with that is there it's like a double Rachel Hawley: my god, we love it. Morgan Paul: edged sword. I feel like we could get into this in a real deep conversation. But then you'll see people out Rachel Hawley: Yeah. Morgan Paul: and be like, I thought you were in blah blah blah or you're not Rachel Hawley: Mm. Morgan Paul: doing that. And I'm like, there's the two caveats. Do you want me to add it in real time? Or would you prefer that I post this at a later time? Because this Rachel Hawley: Yeah. Morgan Paul: is just those are the two eds of the sword. Rachel Hawley: People would be like, I thought you were in Italy. And you're yeah, I was. Not right now. Who cares? So true. Morgan Paul: Six months ago. Yeah. No, I agree. I agree. I think it's it's hard. It's a hard balance for sure. Rachel Hawley: Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Yeah, damned if you post in real Morgan Paul: time. Probably agree. Rachel Hawley: time, damned if you post delayed. Gotta get over that. Okay, I should post a real today. Morgan Paul: Yeah. live on a floating rock. Yep, that this is you this is your story. Rachel Hawley: You're a spec on a floating rock. Do whatever the freak you want to do. Yeah. Morgan Paul: Yeah, like and if people care, let care. If they don't, move on. Rachel Hawley: Yes. Okay. Well that was a fun episode. Captured a lot. Yes. Let us know Morgan Paul: Okay. Well those are our hot takes. This was fun. Rachel Hawley: if you want us to do another episode like this or if you have any hot takes that you'd like us to address. I need to Morgan Paul: Yeah. Rachel Hawley: post a question box for future episodes. I want to do like an advice column. I don't know, just a crowdsource some stuff. I feel like that'll Morgan Paul: Yeah. Rachel Hawley: be fun to get into. Morgan Paul: I think we gotta get a we gotta get a guest on here soon. That'd be fun. Rachel Hawley: Ooh, yes we do. Well thanks everyone for spending some of your sixteen hours with us. Hope you liked this episode. Give us a like, comment, subscribe to keep up to date Morgan Paul: Follow us, subscribe. Rachel Hawley: on new episodes. And we'll see you next time. Happy Halloween. Morgan Paul: Yeah. Rachel Hawley: Hope it wasn't too spooky. Hopefully Liberty Riverty makes it out alive. And good luck with your princess run. Morgan Paul: I want to know what happens. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, talk to you next week. Bye.