Latest / The Overland Journal Podcast / Dan Grec of The Road Chose Me (Overlanding Africa)

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Dan Grec of The Road Chose Me (Overlanding Africa) · The Overland Journal Podcast

0:07
Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the first ever Overland Journal podcast.
0:10
Speaker 1: I'm here at the Overland Expo. I'm your host Scott
0:14
Speaker 1: Brady and my co host Matt Scott. How's it going, guys,
0:17
Speaker 1: and we have got a distinguished guests. In fact, this
0:20
Speaker 1: is our first guest, and there's a reason why he
0:22
Speaker 1: is our first guest is because he's one of the
0:24
Speaker 1: most accomplished overland travelers in North America.
0:28
Speaker 2: Welcome Dan Grek. Thanks for being with us today.
0:30
Speaker 3: Thanks very much, guys. It's a pleasure to be here.
0:32
Speaker 1: And being at Overland Expo. This is obviously exciting to
0:37
Speaker 1: see all of the new equipment and all of the
0:39
Speaker 1: new vehicles that generate so much interest in the space.
0:43
Speaker 1: But obviously for Matt and I and I know for
0:45
Speaker 1: you as well, Dan, all of this really does come
0:48
Speaker 1: back to our passion for travel and overlanding really is
0:52
Speaker 1: vehicle based travel. It's nothing other than that. It isn't
0:56
Speaker 1: four wheeling, it isn't camping. It's taking your vehicle and
0:59
Speaker 1: doing something like you've done, which is circumnavigate South America,
1:03
Speaker 1: and then over the last couple of years, I'm nearly
1:06
Speaker 1: circum circumnavigating Africa, so we know, we've got a couple
1:10
Speaker 1: questions for you, Dan, I think that will be helpful
1:13
Speaker 1: for the audience to know kind of who you are,
1:15
Speaker 1: what a little bit of your background. Wy don't you
1:17
Speaker 1: give us the details?
1:18
Speaker 2: Absolutely? Yeah.
1:19
Speaker 3: So I grew up in Australia, relatively normal upbringing. My
1:22
Speaker 3: parents are both teachers, totally middle class. I went to university,
1:26
Speaker 3: studied to be an engineer, and then came across to
1:29
Speaker 3: North America chasing the snow and snowboarding and kind of
1:32
Speaker 3: that whole like after university, what am I going to
1:35
Speaker 3: do type of thing, And that's when I bought my
1:37
Speaker 3: first kind of adventure vehicle. It was an old rusty
1:40
Speaker 3: Jeep XJA Cherokee, and I was going canoeing on the weekends,
1:44
Speaker 3: I was hiking. Then in the winter I was snowboarding
1:47
Speaker 3: and I realized, you know, this vehicle could just take
1:49
Speaker 3: me anywhere. It kind of was limitless, and that really
1:52
Speaker 3: really got me excited. And I hadn't at that point
1:54
Speaker 3: explored much of North America, so it was a great
1:57
Speaker 3: opportunity to get out into the back country. And then
2:00
Speaker 3: kind of plans started growing and growing, and then I
2:03
Speaker 3: ended up driving all the way from Alaska to Argentina
2:06
Speaker 3: over the span of two years in a little two
2:08
Speaker 3: door wrangler.
2:10
Speaker 2: Awesome.
2:11
Speaker 1: And I remember that too. I remember when I first
2:13
Speaker 1: saw the first images coming out. I thought, this guy's me.
2:17
Speaker 1: I thought it was crazy.
2:19
Speaker 3: And it's funny because that was two thousand and nine.
2:21
Speaker 3: I actually didn't know what overlanding was. I'd never heard
2:24
Speaker 3: the word before.
2:25
Speaker 2: Just like, I want to drive there, this is cool, Yeah,
2:28
Speaker 2: I'm going to do it.
2:28
Speaker 3: It wasn't until I got to the border of Belize
2:30
Speaker 3: in Guatemala that I actually bumped into someone else doing
2:33
Speaker 3: the same thing and he said to me like, oh, yeah, man,
2:36
Speaker 3: where overland is? And I was like, oh, I didn't
2:38
Speaker 3: know that's a thing.
2:39
Speaker 2: It's got a name. That's a good name. Okay.
2:41
Speaker 1: Well, and it's interesting. That's one of the questions that
2:44
Speaker 1: that we had. You you have seen this market evolve,
2:48
Speaker 1: You've you've seen it become a market. You've seen it
2:51
Speaker 1: evolve from those of us that were passionate about travel
2:54
Speaker 1: to now an industry. How does that sit with you?
2:58
Speaker 1: I mean, there are obviously some positive things that come
3:00
Speaker 1: along with that, but what do you think the challenges
3:02
Speaker 1: that we have as an industry, as we go forward.
3:06
Speaker 3: Well, I mean to start, I think the positives are
3:08
Speaker 3: that we're just encouraging more people to get out there
3:10
Speaker 3: and do what they love. Whether it's you know, you
3:13
Speaker 3: want to go fishing on the weekend, so you need
3:15
Speaker 3: a vehicle to take you to that great fishing spot.
3:17
Speaker 3: And you know you want to eat well, so you
3:19
Speaker 3: need a fridge, and you want to sleep well, so
3:20
Speaker 3: maybe you need some sort of roof top ten to
3:22
Speaker 3: or similar.
3:23
Speaker 2: So I think that's.
3:24
Speaker 3: Unbelievably positive that and we're including subar us, and we're
3:27
Speaker 3: including you know, non traditional overland vehicles let's say, like
3:31
Speaker 3: a two door a jip, like a two door deep.
3:34
Speaker 3: So I think it's great that we're you know, encouraging
3:37
Speaker 3: more and more people to get out and do what
3:38
Speaker 3: they love.
3:39
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree, And I think that that's the bottom
3:41
Speaker 1: line as an industry we have to come back to,
3:44
Speaker 1: is if we encourage the positive aspects of overlanding, which
3:47
Speaker 1: is experiencing new cultures, experiencing new places, then I think
3:52
Speaker 1: that will continue to be healthy. I think once once
3:55
Speaker 1: people put once, they wrap too many badges around it,
3:58
Speaker 1: where you've got to have a tacoma or you've got
4:01
Speaker 1: to have some highly specialized vehicle to travel, and all
4:04
Speaker 1: three of us know that that's absolutely not true. I
4:08
Speaker 1: think a Tudor soft top Wrangler is a great example
4:10
Speaker 1: of that, or me crossing the Silk Road in the
4:12
Speaker 1: Suzuki Jimney or Matt you know, traveling around Southeast Asian
4:17
Speaker 1: motorcycles secooters.
4:18
Speaker 2: Actually there were forty nine ccs.
4:20
Speaker 1: Let's be honest, right And at the end of the day,
4:24
Speaker 1: for me, the thing that I come away from is
4:26
Speaker 1: the memories that I have is not what I drove.
4:29
Speaker 1: It was the people that I encountered in the experiences
4:31
Speaker 1: that I had. And it's so important, I think for
4:33
Speaker 1: all of us, especially someone in your position, Dan, that
4:36
Speaker 1: is inspiring so many people reminding them that, and you
4:40
Speaker 1: do that. I hear you when you talk to people,
4:42
Speaker 1: you remind them that it just go, don't be afraid,
4:45
Speaker 1: just go right.
4:46
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think it's fascinating. Whenever you meet overlanders
4:49
Speaker 3: around the world, you know, early on, maybe when you
4:51
Speaker 3: don't know each other yet, there's one or two questions
4:54
Speaker 3: about you know, what vehicle do you drive? You know,
4:56
Speaker 3: what mileage does it get, what tires does it have?
4:59
Speaker 3: But that's about the end of it. After that, nobody
5:01
Speaker 3: really cares anymore because you realize it's not about the vehicle,
5:05
Speaker 3: you know, it's more about did you guys get to
5:07
Speaker 3: this cool waterfall?
5:08
Speaker 2: What? How was the border crossing?
5:09
Speaker 3: You know? What did you think of the food in Nigeria.
5:11
Speaker 3: It's it's the experiences that everyone actually cares about, and
5:15
Speaker 3: the vehicle, the vehicle takes us there. So the vehicles,
5:17
Speaker 3: the vehicles great.
5:18
Speaker 4: I think the vehicle's so much less relevant these days.
5:20
Speaker 4: I mean, most vehicles are pretty reliable. Most vehicles are
5:24
Speaker 4: very capable. I mean, look at what we have in
5:27
Speaker 4: North America right now, Like we have a slew of
5:29
Speaker 4: internationally available pickup trucks. Just grab one and drive one.
5:33
Speaker 4: The things that we would have had to do ten
5:35
Speaker 4: years ago you don't really have to do.
5:38
Speaker 2: I think it's great.
5:39
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree one hundred percent that vehicles today are
5:42
Speaker 3: so much more reliable and comfortable.
5:45
Speaker 2: Yeah.
5:45
Speaker 3: Yeah, you can drive, i mean to the end of
5:47
Speaker 3: the planet in pretty much a showroom vehicle and not
5:51
Speaker 3: expect to have any problems.
5:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's no question about that.
5:54
Speaker 1: And I think that even in the conversations that I've
5:56
Speaker 1: had at the show so far, reminding people that if
6:00
Speaker 1: you buy a stock tacoma or a stock for runner,
6:03
Speaker 1: or a stock jeep, any of the above, and you
6:06
Speaker 1: just leave, you're going to be okay. So there's really
6:08
Speaker 1: only highly specialized environments like the polar regions that you
6:12
Speaker 1: have to have something that's so heavily modified. Now, there's
6:16
Speaker 1: obviously the recognition that we do want to get further afield,
6:19
Speaker 1: especially as more people travel or as we become more
6:22
Speaker 1: experienced as travelers ourselves. When you prepared your jeep, what
6:26
Speaker 1: did you think about as far as getting further afield?
6:29
Speaker 1: Did you want to get remote? Was that part of
6:31
Speaker 1: the goal? Absolutely?
6:32
Speaker 3: And the reason I chose Africa was because I wanted
6:35
Speaker 3: to get, you know, further off the map than I'd
6:37
Speaker 3: ever been in the past. And for me, that really
6:39
Speaker 3: revolved around kind of creature comforts. I wanted a better
6:42
Speaker 3: sleeping set up than just a ground tent, and I
6:45
Speaker 3: wanted to eat better food than just sort of ramen
6:47
Speaker 3: noodles and tin beans, and I knew i'd need drinking water,
6:51
Speaker 3: you know, all of the things to help me survive
6:53
Speaker 3: and thrive in those environments rather than just kind of
6:56
Speaker 3: tolerate the trip and then be sick of it and
6:58
Speaker 3: want to give up after six.
7:00
Speaker 1: Well, and that leads me to one of our questions
7:03
Speaker 1: is what's the one thing that you had with you?
7:06
Speaker 1: And it can be the vehicle or something on the
7:08
Speaker 1: vehicle that was it really changed the dynamic of the trip.
7:12
Speaker 1: It made such a leap forward from what you experienced
7:15
Speaker 1: in South America.
7:18
Speaker 3: One piece of equipment, you mean anything, Well, actually, something
7:22
Speaker 3: I have with me. I don't talk about it a
7:23
Speaker 3: lot is I have a little photo album of photos
7:25
Speaker 3: of my family and some photos of adventures I've had
7:28
Speaker 3: around the world, and I have about six or eight
7:30
Speaker 3: of them stuck on the roof of my jeep so
7:32
Speaker 3: I can see them when I'm upstairs asleep. But about
7:35
Speaker 3: every three or six months, I rotate the photos out
7:38
Speaker 3: between ones that are stealing. The album packed away in
7:40
Speaker 3: a box, and every time I do that, I end
7:42
Speaker 3: up sitting down for a couple of hours and flipping
7:44
Speaker 3: through the photo album and remembering all of those amazing
7:47
Speaker 3: times and my family back at home.
7:50
Speaker 1: And do you feel like that's a bit of a
7:52
Speaker 1: grounding exercise for you, Like it reminds you of home,
7:55
Speaker 1: It reminds you of some of those elements and maybe
7:57
Speaker 1: takes you out of that space of being a nomad
8:00
Speaker 1: for a minute, or how do you feel that changes.
8:02
Speaker 3: You exactly right? And it helps me sort of escape
8:05
Speaker 3: from maybe the harsh times or when i'm you know,
8:08
Speaker 3: when I'm lonely and when I'm tired, and when it's
8:10
Speaker 3: pouring rain and there's mosquitos everywhere. It helps me sort
8:13
Speaker 3: of zone out a little bit and remember back to
8:16
Speaker 3: times that I've had with family and adventures that I've had.
8:19
Speaker 4: I think it's so important when you travel you have
8:20
Speaker 4: to have those little luxuries with you, you know, And maybe
8:24
Speaker 4: luxuries is a weird word, but there's non essential things
8:27
Speaker 4: that kind of when you don't have a great day
8:30
Speaker 4: that does kind of keep you.
8:31
Speaker 2: Going exactly right.
8:32
Speaker 3: And that ability to sort of go inside yourself and
8:35
Speaker 3: just have a good evening anyway, even if you just
8:38
Speaker 3: have a peanut butter sandwich for dinner, but then be
8:40
Speaker 3: able to sleep warm and dry and then get up
8:42
Speaker 3: in the morning refreshed and ready to sort of, you know,
8:45
Speaker 3: face the world again.
8:46
Speaker 2: Yeah.
8:46
Speaker 1: For me, that's coffee. Yeah, I think that that's the
8:48
Speaker 1: one luxury I can't really travel.
8:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean for me, it's rose. That's a different story.
8:55
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm totally on the coffee trade now, so it's
8:58
Speaker 3: like a mission in Africa to always find good ground coffee.
9:00
Speaker 4: Like so on the opposite of that, you know, we
9:03
Speaker 4: know what your favorite thing that you had? What was
9:06
Speaker 4: the thing that you've carried around with you that you've
9:08
Speaker 4: never used? Like every time you see it, every time
9:10
Speaker 4: you hit your foot on it, every time you have
9:12
Speaker 4: to move it around, You're like, why do I have
9:14
Speaker 4: this thing with me?
9:16
Speaker 2: What is it? What is it for you?
9:17
Speaker 4: Because I know I have something that I have no
9:19
Speaker 4: idea why I carry I think everybody does, whether they
9:22
Speaker 4: carried a superstition or because somebody down the road so
9:24
Speaker 4: that they'd have to have it.
9:25
Speaker 3: You know, I do have a set of hiking poles
9:27
Speaker 3: in my jeep, you know that you would take to
9:29
Speaker 3: hike on a mountain, because I bought them in the
9:31
Speaker 3: Yukon years ago before I left, and they were really
9:34
Speaker 3: expensive and I just couldn't bring myself to like give
9:37
Speaker 3: them away or get rid of them, and so I
9:39
Speaker 3: kept convincing myself that I'd need them, and so they're
9:41
Speaker 3: in the jeep to this day and I.
9:43
Speaker 2: Used them once in Cameroon.
9:44
Speaker 3: So I did use them out of principle, or well
9:47
Speaker 3: i'd be of both.
9:48
Speaker 2: I didn't need them.
9:49
Speaker 4: One day, I'm going to need these Cameroon exactly exactly.
9:54
Speaker 3: It's just one of those things where I try to
9:56
Speaker 3: be a minimalist, but somehow that one slipped under the radar.
9:59
Speaker 1: And what do you think think brought about that idea
10:01
Speaker 1: of minimalism for you? Is that something that started well
10:04
Speaker 1: before you began traveling in this way or does that
10:07
Speaker 1: really evolved since then.
10:09
Speaker 3: I think I started out as a backpacker Originally. My
10:12
Speaker 3: brother took me out on you know, multi day hiking
10:14
Speaker 3: trips where you have to carry everything on your back,
10:16
Speaker 3: including your stove, including all your food. And from that
10:20
Speaker 3: I love that sense of everything I need is on
10:22
Speaker 3: my back right now. You know, I don't need all
10:24
Speaker 3: of that stuff that's in my house, and I really
10:27
Speaker 3: enjoy that idea of I only need a small amount
10:29
Speaker 3: of stuff, you know, to be happy and content well.
10:32
Speaker 1: And as you've seen in your travels, the when you
10:36
Speaker 1: go to developing countries, people are so much happier because
10:39
Speaker 1: they have so much less stuff. They don't they don't
10:41
Speaker 1: have a mortgage to make, usually they don't have expensive
10:45
Speaker 1: things that are preoccupying all their energies to try to maintain.
10:49
Speaker 1: So I do see that certainly in other people, and
10:52
Speaker 1: I've seen it more and more in travelers.
10:55
Speaker 2: Yeah.
10:55
Speaker 3: Absolutely, in other countries, it feels like they just figured
10:58
Speaker 3: out that happiness you can go to to Italy, whereas
11:01
Speaker 3: we've kind of been tricked into thinking you need money
11:03
Speaker 3: and stuff and that'll somehow lead to happiness in some
11:06
Speaker 3: vague way. But I've saw so many people in Africa
11:09
Speaker 3: who just I don't really have the choice of getting
11:11
Speaker 3: lots of money or stuff, so they just say, oh, well,
11:13
Speaker 3: we'll just go to happiness instead.
11:15
Speaker 2: Yeah.
11:15
Speaker 4: I was going through this little weird but I was
11:17
Speaker 4: going through my Amazon order history, and I realized, when
11:20
Speaker 4: I'm traveling, I have zero orders. I'm not ordering anything,
11:23
Speaker 4: I'm not looking at Amazon. I'm not even considering buying anything.
11:26
Speaker 4: I'm just so content and happy. But when I'm at home,
11:29
Speaker 4: it's like, you know, you're trying to get that little
11:31
Speaker 4: that little head of serotonin or whatever it is that
11:34
Speaker 4: you normally get when you're traveling, and you turn to consumerism.
11:37
Speaker 2: I think it's I think it's true.
11:38
Speaker 1: That it's so true, and it'll sneak up on all
11:40
Speaker 1: of us before you know it.
11:42
Speaker 2: It absolutely has that effect.
11:45
Speaker 1: So beyond this idea of minimalism, which I do see
11:48
Speaker 1: you act out in your life when you travel, one
11:53
Speaker 1: of the ways to travel, obviously is to save a
11:54
Speaker 1: bunch of money and then go off and spend it
11:56
Speaker 1: over a series of years, it seems like you take
11:59
Speaker 1: a little bit different approach. How do you normally fund
12:01
Speaker 1: your adventures?
12:03
Speaker 3: I definitely I did what you just described. For the
12:05
Speaker 3: first adventure, I just purely lived on my savings account.
12:09
Speaker 3: And then for the second adventure, I kind of ran
12:11
Speaker 3: out of money and made some mistakes along the way,
12:13
Speaker 3: and so I realized I was going to have to
12:15
Speaker 3: earn some money as I was traveling, and I really
12:18
Speaker 3: wanted to become a travel writer and photographer, and so
12:20
Speaker 3: I put a lot of energy and focus into that,
12:23
Speaker 3: and I published a book, and I write for a
12:25
Speaker 3: handful of magazines.
12:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, And so that the audience knows how to see
12:30
Speaker 1: more of Dan's work. He has a website road Chose Me,
12:34
Speaker 1: and he has a book related to that first adventure
12:37
Speaker 1: in South America, and he's working currently on completing another
12:40
Speaker 1: book on his adventures through Africa. Tell Us a little
12:44
Speaker 1: bit more about your other project, Wiki Overland.
12:47
Speaker 3: So when I traveled from Alaska to Argentina, I realized
12:50
Speaker 3: that by traveling in that way you gain a lot
12:53
Speaker 3: of information about the border crossings, about insurance requirements per country,
12:57
Speaker 3: you know, gas prices in every country. And at first
13:00
Speaker 3: I thought, you know, this would be a great thing
13:02
Speaker 3: to put in a book, but then I realized it'll
13:04
Speaker 3: go out of date in a month, and so I
13:06
Speaker 3: came up with this idea to have it as a
13:08
Speaker 3: community wiki where anyone can edit it and update it
13:11
Speaker 3: at any time. And so that's the goal of Wiki overland,
13:14
Speaker 3: to have it be the community encyclopedia or of overlanding.
13:17
Speaker 2: I've used it, I've used it. Yeah, it's great resource.
13:20
Speaker 1: I remember coming up to the Peruvian border and a
13:22
Speaker 1: motorcycle and just being like, you know, I probably have
13:24
Speaker 1: done any I've done no research, So I think I
13:28
Speaker 1: got more lucky than good at that border.
13:30
Speaker 4: But yeah, I mean I think whenever as a community
13:34
Speaker 4: we can, we can come together and provide a resource,
13:36
Speaker 4: because that is the daunting thing about overlanding, about traveling
13:40
Speaker 4: is people have anxiety about crossing borders. They have anxiety
13:43
Speaker 4: about where am I going to be able to get
13:44
Speaker 4: fuel what's available and to have a resource. I think
13:48
Speaker 4: I think that's very commendable for you to you know,
13:51
Speaker 4: not selfishly look at, you know, the profits that maybe
13:54
Speaker 4: you would have gotten on a book, and to provide
13:56
Speaker 4: that to the community.
13:56
Speaker 2: I think it's really cool. Thanks. Thanks.
13:58
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it's it's still relatively small, and you know,
14:01
Speaker 3: it doesn't get a lot of traffic. But I'm really
14:03
Speaker 3: happy whenever I see other people going there and updated
14:05
Speaker 3: and you know, gas prices get a tweak and yeah,
14:07
Speaker 3: it makes me makes me smile that there are other
14:09
Speaker 3: people out there doing crossing those borders that I crossed
14:12
Speaker 3: ten years ago.
14:13
Speaker 1: And the reality is is the people that are doing
14:16
Speaker 1: big global travel that's a relatively small fraternity. It doesn't
14:21
Speaker 1: it doesn't mean that there aren't numerous people doing that,
14:24
Speaker 1: but it's not in the tens of thousands. It's in
14:27
Speaker 1: the thousands most likely. Right Whereas there are people who
14:30
Speaker 1: want to go down and have their first Baha experience,
14:34
Speaker 1: and there are people who want to drive to Alaska,
14:36
Speaker 1: there are people who want to fly to Australia and
14:38
Speaker 1: rent a vehicle and drive around, and that is always
14:42
Speaker 1: so exciting to see and them having their own version
14:45
Speaker 1: of an adventure is what will spurn those next.
14:47
Speaker 2: Ideas exactly right.
14:48
Speaker 3: Yeah, and all of those adventures you just mentioned, they're
14:51
Speaker 3: all unbelievably good and valid and fun, and everyone who
14:55
Speaker 3: wants to should you should encourage them to go out
14:57
Speaker 3: and do them well.
14:58
Speaker 1: And that leads me to another question, and like, what
15:00
Speaker 1: was the most fun or hilarious moment that you had
15:04
Speaker 1: in your travels in Africa?
15:08
Speaker 3: It was always really funny. In a lot of countries,
15:11
Speaker 3: you know, the locals kind of treat me differently because
15:13
Speaker 3: of the color of my skin versus their skin. And
15:16
Speaker 3: I think, you know, a lot of white people are
15:18
Speaker 3: sort of on a bit of a pedestal, or they're
15:19
Speaker 3: sort of a little bit superior. And so some of
15:22
Speaker 3: the funnest moments I had was like I'd come across
15:24
Speaker 3: a vehicle that's stuck in the mud, and I would
15:26
Speaker 3: just jump out of my jeep, not wearing any shoes
15:29
Speaker 3: and immediately sink up to my knees in the mud
15:32
Speaker 3: and just watching the way the locals reacted to me.
15:34
Speaker 3: At first, they were kind of horrified and they almost
15:36
Speaker 3: wanted to like pick me up and carry me out
15:38
Speaker 3: of the mud. But then when I kind of waved
15:40
Speaker 3: them off, suddenly they'd be.
15:41
Speaker 2: Like, Oh, this guy's just like us. Oh, this guy's
15:44
Speaker 2: really cool.
15:45
Speaker 3: We should hang out with this guy. And then so
15:47
Speaker 3: they're like a bunch of handshakes and invites, and it
15:49
Speaker 3: just became a really hilarious way to kind of like
15:52
Speaker 3: break down this supposed separation.
15:54
Speaker 2: I'd always I kind of enjoyed doing it.
15:56
Speaker 1: It was fun, oh, of course, and that's when the
15:59
Speaker 1: smiles come out, and that's when the invitations come.
16:01
Speaker 2: And next thing you know, you're you're having food with their.
16:03
Speaker 1: Family, and you know we are we are so similar
16:07
Speaker 1: in Africa being really the birthplace of humanity.
16:11
Speaker 2: So it's it's cool to be.
16:12
Speaker 3: There, absolutely, yeah, And and to really kind of sink
16:15
Speaker 3: in and get like under the scheme of of the
16:17
Speaker 3: way the culture works and the way that yeah, communal
16:19
Speaker 3: eating is such a thing and that family is such
16:22
Speaker 3: a thing, and it's it's really cool to spend enough
16:24
Speaker 3: time to really get to know that.
16:26
Speaker 4: So so that's your best moment. I want I want
16:29
Speaker 4: to know that nitty gritty. I want to know. I
16:31
Speaker 4: want to know what you hated the most, What was
16:33
Speaker 4: your worst day. I'm talking food poisoning, and I'm talking
16:36
Speaker 4: you said earlier I was, I lost a bunch of weeks.
16:39
Speaker 4: I had malaria twice when I was there, And how
16:42
Speaker 4: do you get through that stuff?
16:43
Speaker 5: What?
16:43
Speaker 2: What? What was it for you?
16:46
Speaker 3: Malaria the second time around was really bad?
16:48
Speaker 4: But that actually won't have to be really annoying. You're like,
16:50
Speaker 4: are you kidding me? This is happening again?
16:52
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I mean when you seek, you don't really
16:54
Speaker 3: have a choice. You just have to sold you through it.
16:56
Speaker 3: I mean, it was horrible, and I don't recommend anyone
16:58
Speaker 3: get it, But actually that wasn't the worst day for me.
17:01
Speaker 3: The worst day. Through a series of screw ups on
17:04
Speaker 3: my behalf, the jeep rolled without me in it. It
17:07
Speaker 3: hit a rock wall and then actually pitched over onto
17:10
Speaker 3: its side. It landed on the passenger side in the
17:13
Speaker 3: middle of nowhere in Uganda, and I was standing kind
17:16
Speaker 3: of twenty feet away watching it as this happened. And so,
17:20
Speaker 3: you know, before the trip, I had a lot of people,
17:22
Speaker 3: you know, telling me I was an idiot and I
17:23
Speaker 3: was going to die and all of that. And so
17:26
Speaker 3: to stand there in that moment and see the jeep
17:28
Speaker 3: smash down on its side.
17:29
Speaker 2: I'm idiot, and I'm going to die.
17:30
Speaker 3: Yeah, all of that suddenly, of like all of those
17:33
Speaker 3: naysayers were right, and it was a huge, big emotional
17:36
Speaker 3: kind of wave that came over me. Of like I failed.
17:39
Speaker 3: They told me I was going to fail, and I failed.
17:41
Speaker 4: But your jeep is behind me and I'm looking at it,
17:43
Speaker 4: so everything was okay. I mean, did you break glass?
17:46
Speaker 4: Did you have to replace anything?
17:48
Speaker 5: I mean, amazingly, it's amazing to me that that no
17:52
Speaker 5: broken by I see some for everybody listening, there's some
17:55
Speaker 5: duct tape on his passenger side fender, and otherwise you
17:59
Speaker 5: wouldn't know it had.
17:59
Speaker 3: Wronged, right, And I put that duct taping on Uganda,
18:03
Speaker 3: Like ten minutes after it happened. A bunch of locals
18:05
Speaker 3: pushed on the side and I winched off a tree
18:07
Speaker 3: and it came back up on the wheels just like that.
18:10
Speaker 3: And I mean, I was lucky, there's no doubt about it.
18:13
Speaker 3: But suddenly what I thought was the end of the world,
18:15
Speaker 3: it turned out to be fine. It actually wasn't a
18:17
Speaker 3: big deal at all. And I drove it and I've
18:20
Speaker 3: been driving it ever since.
18:21
Speaker 1: Yeah, so often our fears of what might happen are
18:25
Speaker 1: nothing like what actually the end result ends up being.
18:28
Speaker 1: The borders are almost always easier than we think. The
18:32
Speaker 1: bureaucracies are almost more fluid than we imagine, but we
18:36
Speaker 1: do think about that. I mean, I remember the first
18:39
Speaker 1: time I came to the Russian border, like, it's Russia's Russia.
18:42
Speaker 2: It's heavy.
18:43
Speaker 1: It's like, oh my god, is this like if I
18:44
Speaker 1: actually doing this? And they were it just thought they
18:47
Speaker 1: liked our trucks. They thought it was just like anybody else.
18:50
Speaker 1: But you don't know that, and you in your mind,
18:52
Speaker 1: you think I'm going into Russia, I'm going to get interrogated, right,
18:56
Speaker 1: going into the dark room.
18:57
Speaker 2: Yeah, all the bad things.
18:58
Speaker 1: And of course none of that happened, but you can
19:00
Speaker 1: let your imagination run free for.
19:02
Speaker 2: A little bit.
19:03
Speaker 4: People are good, Governments are bad, Yeah for sure, Yeah
19:06
Speaker 4: for sure.
19:07
Speaker 2: Awesome.
19:08
Speaker 1: Well, tell us a little bit more about the vehicle.
19:12
Speaker 1: Tell us, like, what were the modifications that you did
19:15
Speaker 1: to the jeep that you thought were the most effective
19:18
Speaker 1: for your travel?
19:20
Speaker 3: So I really I spent a long time thinking about
19:22
Speaker 3: it and planning it, and so to be honest, there
19:25
Speaker 3: must be a thousand design hours into that thing. Of
19:27
Speaker 3: different systems and different approaches, and so for me, I
19:30
Speaker 3: have a drinking water tank mounted underneath with a filtration
19:34
Speaker 3: and UV treatment system and that I use five times
19:37
Speaker 3: every single day, and that is easily the most used
19:40
Speaker 3: system on the jeep, and I would say the most
19:42
Speaker 3: critical for Africa. I do have a fridge, jewel, batteries
19:46
Speaker 3: and solar set up, and you know, having cold water
19:48
Speaker 3: when you're in Africa is a wonderful thing. I actually
19:51
Speaker 3: don't want to imagine a trip in Africa without a fridge.
19:53
Speaker 3: I don't think that would be very enjoyable. And then
19:56
Speaker 3: also I do have a pop up roof so I
19:58
Speaker 3: can sleep up up on top of the geep essentially,
20:01
Speaker 3: and just to be able to sleep so well and
20:03
Speaker 3: be warm and dry and out of the mosquitoes. Again,
20:06
Speaker 3: it just it's all of these living modifications that really
20:10
Speaker 3: helped me be like happy every day and be thriving
20:13
Speaker 3: in that environment, even when you know it was torrential
20:16
Speaker 3: downpour or whatever else was going on.
20:18
Speaker 1: So having a place to retreat and relax and maybe
20:21
Speaker 1: even do a little bit of.
20:22
Speaker 3: Work exactly, yeah, read a book, watch a movie on
20:25
Speaker 3: my laptop, and and the more you travel the more
20:27
Speaker 3: you meet Overlanders who talk about this, you know, mythical
20:30
Speaker 3: interior living space thing, it's like, how do I get
20:33
Speaker 3: more interior living space? And I love camping. I love
20:37
Speaker 3: being outside cooking and reading a book, and that's great
20:40
Speaker 3: when the weather cooperates, but there's that one or two
20:42
Speaker 3: days a month when it's just horrible to be outside.
20:46
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I know in our latest Chip build,
20:48
Speaker 4: that was that was our big thing we just wanted. Yeah,
20:51
Speaker 4: we're in Arizona, where you know, that's kind of I
20:53
Speaker 4: guess where we do most of our stuff these days,
20:55
Speaker 4: and Baha and each.
20:57
Speaker 2: Just get cold at night.
20:58
Speaker 4: And to be able to just kind of retreat when
21:00
Speaker 4: you're you know, in Baha for a month and you're
21:03
Speaker 4: covered in salt water and you're sweaty and now you
21:06
Speaker 4: want to kill everybody else around you. If to be
21:08
Speaker 4: able to read a book and retreat, I think that
21:11
Speaker 4: that's a kind of a universal thing that a lot
21:13
Speaker 4: of travelers really are are are moving towards.
21:16
Speaker 2: Yeah.
21:16
Speaker 4: Now, first I think it was the riff tanks, and
21:18
Speaker 4: now it's the vehicle conversions. You know, if you can
21:21
Speaker 4: afford it, I think I think it's a really sweet setup.
21:25
Speaker 2: Yeah, I have to agree.
21:26
Speaker 3: I traveled with a couple from Germany and they had
21:28
Speaker 3: a big sportsmobile kitted out and as we were traveling together,
21:31
Speaker 3: you know, we're on the same roads in the Congo.
21:34
Speaker 3: They had four wheels on the ground, they got similar
21:36
Speaker 3: mileage to me, you know, similar maintenance requirements in terms
21:39
Speaker 3: of oil changes. But their interior living space was maybe
21:42
Speaker 3: four times bigger than mine.
21:43
Speaker 2: Yeah.
21:44
Speaker 3: All three of us could sit in there and cook
21:45
Speaker 3: dinner and be many feet apart. And to me that
21:49
Speaker 3: just blew my mind of like, my jeep is small, yeah,
21:53
Speaker 3: compared to a vehicle that has all that interior.
21:55
Speaker 4: I mean, here we are at over an expo. We're
21:57
Speaker 4: recording this in a sprinter van that's converted into a camper,
22:00
Speaker 4: and we're all relatively comfortable. I could see why people
22:05
Speaker 4: do this absolutely.
22:06
Speaker 3: I mean, there could be two or three more full
22:08
Speaker 3: sized guys in here and we still wouldn't be shoulder
22:10
Speaker 3: the shoulder.
22:10
Speaker 2: Yeah.
22:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, So for your next adventure, where do you think
22:15
Speaker 1: you want to go and what vehicle do you want
22:17
Speaker 1: to bring for that one?
22:19
Speaker 3: You know, I made a couple of promises to myself
22:21
Speaker 3: at some point in Africa. Criteria number one is there
22:24
Speaker 3: has to be no malaria wherever I'm going, and criteria
22:27
Speaker 3: number two hopefully is no humidity. So that kind of
22:31
Speaker 3: limits me a little bit. And I certainly I'm dreaming
22:34
Speaker 3: of Central Asia. I'm dreaming of the Silk Road. Yeah,
22:36
Speaker 3: you know, Mongolia, Nepal, northern India. I've never been and
22:41
Speaker 3: I'm a mountain guy, and so if I could get
22:43
Speaker 3: into that part of the world for a couple of years,
22:45
Speaker 3: I think I'd be extremely happy.
22:47
Speaker 1: Yeah, that would be an incredible trip, going from London
22:50
Speaker 1: to Singapore or something along that, or even just getting
22:53
Speaker 1: into India via Central Asia. I remember doing the Silk Road,
22:58
Speaker 1: and I really enjoyed all.
23:00
Speaker 2: Of those places.
23:01
Speaker 1: I mean, the mountains are incredible and the culture is
23:03
Speaker 1: so different. It's hard to find places in the world
23:07
Speaker 1: where cultures are relatively intact, right, and Central Asia remains
23:13
Speaker 1: one of those places that has bucked some of the
23:16
Speaker 1: Western trending that we see and you can actually have
23:19
Speaker 1: a very original experience with those cultures.
23:22
Speaker 2: Right.
23:23
Speaker 3: I'm so happy to hear that, because I feel like
23:25
Speaker 3: I got a bit spoilt in West Africa when I
23:27
Speaker 3: was in the Congo, when I was in Gabon and
23:29
Speaker 3: it's like going off the edge of the planet, you know,
23:31
Speaker 3: people that have never seen tourists before. And then when
23:34
Speaker 3: I got into more touristed places like Kenya, I was
23:37
Speaker 3: kind of disappointed and I kind of thought, you know, nah.
23:39
Speaker 2: This is crap.
23:40
Speaker 3: There's too many tourists to you. So, yeah, it is
23:42
Speaker 3: a goal of mine to try and go places where
23:44
Speaker 3: there's no tourists.
23:45
Speaker 1: Oh, that would be well, that'll be another great book
23:47
Speaker 1: ford to reading about that.
23:49
Speaker 2: And I think China too is relatively open. Now.
23:52
Speaker 4: I've heard some rumors going around that you can actually
23:55
Speaker 4: self drive without a guide. Now you still need a
23:57
Speaker 4: permit from travel agency, but the travel agencies that have
24:03
Speaker 4: the authorization to this won't. I think that that opens
24:06
Speaker 4: you know that kind of finishing that silk crowd. You
24:09
Speaker 4: used to have to do that in the caravan and
24:10
Speaker 4: that's that's incredibly expensive. And Vietnam now thirty days you
24:14
Speaker 4: can you can go in and enter that.
24:15
Speaker 3: Right and it's no problem to join a caravan to
24:17
Speaker 3: get across my En mar as well, so you can
24:19
Speaker 3: link up.
24:20
Speaker 2: You can go into mr on your own now oh
24:23
Speaker 2: really yeah. Yeah.
24:24
Speaker 4: Ray Hiland of a series one Land rover from London
24:28
Speaker 4: to Singapore with his family, three large boys and his
24:32
Speaker 4: wife in a nineteen fifty eight Series one with a
24:34
Speaker 4: wheelbase of like, I don't know, twelve inches. I don't
24:38
Speaker 4: know how to do that, but he did it all
24:39
Speaker 4: on his own.
24:40
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's amazing.
24:41
Speaker 1: In fact, I was just on a panel with a
24:43
Speaker 1: woman that rode from India. Her name is Candida, and
24:47
Speaker 1: she waited for a group because it was seven thousand
24:50
Speaker 1: dollars to cross Mayomar, and she waited for a group
24:54
Speaker 1: to spread that money out over a larger a larger
24:58
Speaker 1: group of people. But it's pretty amazing how travelers are
25:02
Speaker 1: solving this problem.
25:04
Speaker 2: That's right.
25:04
Speaker 3: And it feels like everywhere in the world that sort
25:06
Speaker 3: of has a block or is a problem, like people
25:09
Speaker 3: are working on solving.
25:10
Speaker 2: It and making it more. World's changing rapidly, rightly.
25:13
Speaker 3: Right when I got to Angola, it was still hard
25:16
Speaker 3: to get the visa. Now Angola has a visa on arrival,
25:18
Speaker 3: so it's become completely open to tourism.
25:21
Speaker 1: Oh, that's amazing. Well, and Southern Africa is just such
25:24
Speaker 1: a special place in the world, so to be able
25:26
Speaker 1: to get up into Angla freely from Namibia especially from
25:30
Speaker 1: the caprevious strip. I mean, what a neat area to
25:32
Speaker 1: get into.
25:33
Speaker 3: Absolutely, and you feel like you've gone back in time
25:35
Speaker 3: fifty years when you do that, right, Yeah, it's amazing.
25:38
Speaker 1: Well, you mentioned traveling with another couple that had a sportsmobile,
25:42
Speaker 1: but that meant that a lot of the other parts
25:44
Speaker 1: of the trip you were traveling alone. How did you
25:47
Speaker 1: enjoy that.
25:49
Speaker 3: I have a love hate relationship with traveling solo. Some
25:53
Speaker 3: days I really revel in it because locals will invite
25:56
Speaker 3: me for food and because you know, it's on me
25:58
Speaker 3: to learn the language, and I kind of enjoy being
26:02
Speaker 3: the master of my own everything. I have to do
26:04
Speaker 3: all the driving, the navigating, the cooking. It's on me,
26:07
Speaker 3: you know, Can I handle this? Am I tough enough?
26:11
Speaker 3: But then definitely on the other side of the coin,
26:13
Speaker 3: I absolutely get lonely and I absolutely start to question,
26:16
Speaker 3: you know, what am I doing? Why am I even
26:18
Speaker 3: here if I don't have anyone to share it with?
26:20
Speaker 3: You know, is what I'm doing even valid? Is it even?
26:23
Speaker 3: Does it have a point? And I think that's part
26:25
Speaker 3: of what has inspired me to start writing and to
26:28
Speaker 3: start documenting my travels, you know, in a better way,
26:31
Speaker 3: because then I can share it even if the people
26:33
Speaker 3: aren't immediately with me, I can share it with people
26:36
Speaker 3: who can then come back and give me feedback and
26:38
Speaker 3: kind of help remind me that it was real.
26:41
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it's important to recognize those emotions while
26:45
Speaker 4: you're traveling, like it. You know, with Instagram and media
26:49
Speaker 4: these days, we only talk about the good things, you know,
26:52
Speaker 4: and there are a lot of not so good things
26:56
Speaker 4: that are involved with travel. But it's all part of
26:57
Speaker 4: the experience and it's nice to hear you recognize that.
27:00
Speaker 4: I mean, I remember when we drove around Australia on
27:04
Speaker 4: like the fourteenth day of fly meltdown.
27:06
Speaker 2: I just I wanted to give up.
27:08
Speaker 4: And you know, everybody I think goes through that, but
27:11
Speaker 4: no one really talks about it. And I mean frankly
27:15
Speaker 4: mean Scott, like as a publisher, like would you ever
27:17
Speaker 4: publish somebody's rants about what they hated about about their experience?
27:21
Speaker 4: Like that's not what you want to portray, but it does,
27:24
Speaker 4: you know. I think it's valid.
27:26
Speaker 1: It is valid, and we have published some really difficult
27:30
Speaker 1: experiences that people have had. I remember one couple actually
27:37
Speaker 1: killed a young man in Africa with their vehicle an accident,
27:41
Speaker 1: and she went into a lot of detail about her
27:45
Speaker 1: own grief and about working through that grief with the family,
27:48
Speaker 1: and about they had several opportunities to pay off officials
27:53
Speaker 1: and get out of the situation, and they decided as
27:56
Speaker 1: a couple that they had an accident a young boy
28:00
Speaker 1: and that they were going to honor his life by
28:02
Speaker 1: taking responsibility for what happened. And it's pretty rare that
28:06
Speaker 1: we'll publish something like that, but it's an important reminder
28:09
Speaker 1: not only that we need to be responsible as as travelers,
28:14
Speaker 1: but also that things don't always go as as well
28:18
Speaker 1: as maybe portrayed in some of the blogs or Instagram
28:23
Speaker 1: feeds that we'll see in social media, but it is
28:26
Speaker 1: a reality.
28:27
Speaker 2: Challenges do occur.
28:29
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, And I've always described traveling as a bit
28:32
Speaker 3: of a roller coaster where some days you're on the
28:34
Speaker 3: top of the world and you have a ten out
28:35
Speaker 3: of ten day, but then the very next day you
28:37
Speaker 3: could have a zero out of ten day, you know,
28:39
Speaker 3: and everything in between, and you never really know what
28:41
Speaker 3: you can get. So, yeah, they definitely have those days
28:44
Speaker 3: where you're really low on the curve and you know
28:46
Speaker 3: you're not necessarily enjoying it. And you start to question,
28:49
Speaker 3: you know, is this a good idea? Do I need
28:51
Speaker 3: to change something or do something else?
28:53
Speaker 1: For a while, you talk a lot about from a
28:57
Speaker 1: very positive perspective about your travels, and you get people
29:00
Speaker 1: very much inspired in person when you get a chance
29:03
Speaker 1: to do that talking with a large audience like this,
29:06
Speaker 1: Like what what are some of the things that you
29:08
Speaker 1: feel are important from a responsibility standpoint? Like as a traveler,
29:14
Speaker 1: what are some of the things that you think about
29:15
Speaker 1: when you go into a new country? How do you
29:17
Speaker 1: how do you behave how do you interact with locals?
29:21
Speaker 1: What do you see as the ethics of overland travel?
29:23
Speaker 1: From Dan Grex's perspective.
29:26
Speaker 3: Yeah, I definitely I feel a responsibility to be an ambassador.
29:30
Speaker 3: You know, I'm from Australia originally, but I kind of
29:33
Speaker 3: associate with Canada and so I feel a responsibility to
29:37
Speaker 3: represent those countries well. And for some of the people
29:40
Speaker 3: I'm meeting, you know, I may well be the very
29:43
Speaker 3: first person from those countries that they've ever had time
29:46
Speaker 3: to sit down and talk with, and so I think
29:48
Speaker 3: it's really important to treat people well and to take
29:51
Speaker 3: the time to ask how they're doing, and you know,
29:54
Speaker 3: even if they're just stamping your passport, it's like.
29:56
Speaker 2: They're a person too.
29:57
Speaker 3: And so I think it's really important to treat everyone
29:59
Speaker 3: we meet as we go along like people. And even
30:02
Speaker 3: you know, when there's no gas and you get a
30:04
Speaker 3: bit frantic and you get a bit sort of stressed
30:06
Speaker 3: about how am I ever going to get out of this.
30:08
Speaker 3: It's like when a guy you know spends his own
30:11
Speaker 3: money to show up in a taxi and he has
30:12
Speaker 3: a container of gas, It's like you should be nice
30:15
Speaker 3: to him, like he's really he's really helping you here.
30:17
Speaker 3: And Yeah, it's stressful and it's hard to remember, but
30:20
Speaker 3: I think it's it's really critical that we leave a
30:23
Speaker 3: good legacy of like, yeah, we roam and we're sort
30:25
Speaker 3: of passing through, but we're leaving sort of happiness or
30:30
Speaker 3: where we're doing it positively rather than just sort of
30:32
Speaker 3: being grumpy.
30:33
Speaker 2: So and so is the whole time.
30:35
Speaker 1: Yeah, and have you noticed that you'll have an experience
30:37
Speaker 1: at a border that goes perfectly smooth. Everybody's having a
30:40
Speaker 1: good time, you're laughing and you're having great memories with
30:43
Speaker 1: these border officials, and you'll talk to some other traveler
30:46
Speaker 1: that's grumpy and they went through the same border and
30:48
Speaker 1: they had a totally different experience.
30:50
Speaker 2: Absolutely, yeah.
30:52
Speaker 3: Yeah, And pretty quickly you see like from their attitude,
30:55
Speaker 3: You're like, oh, if you've been treating people that way.
30:57
Speaker 2: I understand why they treated you that way in return.
31:00
Speaker 4: Yeah.
31:00
Speaker 3: Yeah, And so I've found all along. The greatest sort
31:03
Speaker 3: of skill that I have in my travels is I
31:06
Speaker 3: take off my sunglasses, I hold out my hand and
31:08
Speaker 3: I say, you know, hi, how are.
31:09
Speaker 2: You make a connection? Make a connection? Absolutely, And Matt's
31:13
Speaker 2: what's new with you? What's new with you? Got some
31:16
Speaker 2: gladiator thing out here?
31:17
Speaker 1: Yeah?
31:18
Speaker 2: Yeah, so we we decided to build a gladiator. I was.
31:21
Speaker 4: I was driving one at the press launch a few
31:23
Speaker 4: months ago and loved it so much. I bought one
31:25
Speaker 4: on the spot and I wasn't even back to the
31:28
Speaker 4: hotel that Jeep was putting us up at, and I
31:31
Speaker 4: just have to say, man, that that vehicle is so impressive.
31:35
Speaker 2: You know.
31:35
Speaker 4: I think it's great that you know, you have your
31:37
Speaker 4: you know, your JK Unlimited, and it's cool to see
31:40
Speaker 4: more people driving Jeeps because I think, you know, there's
31:45
Speaker 4: a lot of car companies out there, there's a lot
31:47
Speaker 4: of options, there's a lot of really good options. You know,
31:49
Speaker 4: I think Overlanders kind of pigeonhole themselves and you know,
31:52
Speaker 4: land cruisers or defenders or whatnot. But you know, Jeep
31:55
Speaker 4: as a company is so fantastic. They actually listen to
32:00
Speaker 4: the customers.
32:01
Speaker 2: You know.
32:02
Speaker 4: The the j JL or the JT or whatever you
32:06
Speaker 4: want to call it is the perfect example of that.
32:07
Speaker 4: You know, it has the switches built in for my
32:09
Speaker 4: auxiliary stuff. I can control them through the touch screen.
32:11
Speaker 4: If I want them to be momentary or if I
32:13
Speaker 4: want them to be on all the time, you can
32:15
Speaker 4: put it. You could wire a fridge into it, you know,
32:19
Speaker 4: the lockers, it's They're fantastic vehicles and I'm glad to
32:22
Speaker 4: see that they're getting more traction in the space. You know,
32:26
Speaker 4: we opted to put an at Overland Summit camper on
32:29
Speaker 4: the back. It's only about three hundred and fifty pounds,
32:32
Speaker 4: but it's fully insulated and going back to having that
32:35
Speaker 4: having that space that is your own to retire to
32:38
Speaker 4: at the end of the day. You know, I think
32:40
Speaker 4: for people that are in this for the long haul,
32:42
Speaker 4: they're not They're not just going out for the weekend.
32:44
Speaker 2: This is a lifestyle for them.
32:46
Speaker 4: They've been doing it for man, I've been doing it
32:48
Speaker 4: for almost a decade now, which is as long as
32:50
Speaker 4: you guys have. But you know, it's it's a fair
32:52
Speaker 4: bit and I want to be doing this when I'm
32:54
Speaker 4: sixty or seventy and giving yourself every advantage to be
32:57
Speaker 4: the positive person at.
32:59
Speaker 2: The border, cross you or wherever you are.
33:01
Speaker 4: You know, I think I think that those are luxuries
33:05
Speaker 4: that are that are really valid. You know, at the
33:07
Speaker 4: end of the day, sure you could, you could have
33:09
Speaker 4: a tent or something, but you know.
33:11
Speaker 2: For me, it's it's needs versus wants.
33:14
Speaker 4: If somebody that's building a vehicle says that they need
33:17
Speaker 4: to have thirty sevens or they need to have Dino
33:20
Speaker 4: Trak axles, you know, yeah, those are great, very functional things,
33:23
Speaker 4: but you know you don't need them. I'll tell you
33:26
Speaker 4: a million reasons why you don't need stuff. But you know,
33:28
Speaker 4: when it comes to wanting stuff, I think, uh, I
33:33
Speaker 4: don't think anybody can say anything and yeah they and
33:35
Speaker 4: I want this Gladiator it is. It is fantastic. We
33:39
Speaker 4: just put like three thousand miles on it, coming out
33:42
Speaker 4: from from Arizona to over the next mo east and
33:45
Speaker 4: all around d C. For a wedding and it drives great.
33:48
Speaker 4: Like I it's so cool where we are in vehicles today.
33:52
Speaker 4: How many options, legitimate options Overlanders have, Like we are
33:56
Speaker 4: at the golden.
33:57
Speaker 2: Age of the four wheel drive.
33:58
Speaker 4: I would say so, Like, you know, people will you know,
34:01
Speaker 4: reminisce about Defenders or FJ fortys or whatever, but empirically
34:04
Speaker 4: those vehicles actually sucked. I mean, the Defender could never
34:07
Speaker 4: keep out dust. Like let's just let's just go with that.
34:11
Speaker 4: You know, the f J forty you'd end up, you know,
34:14
Speaker 4: an inch shorter by the time you get out of
34:16
Speaker 4: it from spinal compression. Where now, any any vehicle in
34:20
Speaker 4: North America. I mean we have the Ranger, now that's
34:21
Speaker 4: a global platform. We have the Colorado that's a global platform,
34:25
Speaker 4: and we have the Gladiator.
34:26
Speaker 2: That's going to be a global platform.
34:28
Speaker 4: I mean Fiat Chrysler is I want to say, they're
34:31
Speaker 4: the largest automobile manufacturer.
34:33
Speaker 2: Them were Volkswagen. They're on the largest for sure. I
34:36
Speaker 2: think it's so cool.
34:37
Speaker 3: Yeah, lots of options. I agree so much, And it's great.
34:41
Speaker 3: I love watching you know, what other people are doing
34:44
Speaker 3: and how and because I always think too, there's no
34:46
Speaker 3: such thing as perfect in a vehicle or a build.
34:49
Speaker 2: There's pros and cons to everything, but it's really.
34:51
Speaker 3: Fun to start a new vehicle and a new build
34:53
Speaker 3: and then really enjoy the pros, learn from the cons,
34:57
Speaker 3: and then at some point you might move on again
34:59
Speaker 3: to something else.
35:00
Speaker 2: It's going to have a whole different set of pros
35:01
Speaker 2: and cons.
35:02
Speaker 3: Maybe you know you'll go for more luxury than your
35:04
Speaker 3: last vehicle, but then you know you'll miss the four
35:06
Speaker 3: wheel drive capability, So then your next vehicle after that
35:09
Speaker 3: comes back to more kind of four wheel drive. And
35:12
Speaker 3: I feel like it's just an ongoing process we all
35:14
Speaker 3: go through.
35:15
Speaker 4: I mean, do you think you could see yourself in
35:17
Speaker 4: a gladiator? I know that you've made some comments towards.
35:20
Speaker 2: Me, absolutely.
35:21
Speaker 3: I mean, the things that interest me the most is
35:24
Speaker 3: it has a bigger payload than a Wrangler, and simply
35:27
Speaker 3: because it has a longer frame, that gives me more
35:29
Speaker 3: room for water tanks and gas or diesel tanks, and
35:32
Speaker 3: those actually right now are the things I'm thinking the
35:35
Speaker 3: most about.
35:36
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they're coming out with diesel experience.
35:38
Speaker 3: Yeah, how do I get further from the beaten path
35:41
Speaker 3: on my Wrangler?
35:42
Speaker 2: Right now?
35:42
Speaker 3: I could carry more gas, but it's already over its payloads.
35:46
Speaker 3: It's getting kind of in and out and just bolting
35:48
Speaker 3: stuff on the outside. It would not be ideal to
35:50
Speaker 3: put another twenty or fifty gallons on it.
35:53
Speaker 1: And yeah, that's an interesting challenge we're in though now too,
35:56
Speaker 1: because the new diesel motors do not tolerate most African
36:00
Speaker 1: diesel very.
36:01
Speaker 2: Well, or even Mexico.
36:02
Speaker 4: Mexico's on low sul for diesel outside of their major cities.
36:06
Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's another thing that we have to recognize
36:09
Speaker 1: as travelers. Most of the vehicles that we buy in
36:12
Speaker 1: the United States need to be gas, at least for
36:15
Speaker 1: a period of time. Anyone any of the vehicles with
36:18
Speaker 1: particular filters or catalantic converters on diesel trying to find
36:22
Speaker 1: that diesel exhaust fluid. Yeah, and actually imagine.
36:26
Speaker 3: Yeah, a good German friend of mine, you know, he's
36:28
Speaker 3: had all kinds of diesel land cruises and land rovers
36:30
Speaker 3: and he has the sportsmobile now and he actually is
36:33
Speaker 3: quite adamant that the best overlanding vehicles right now they're gas.
36:37
Speaker 3: They're not diesel because of them, because of the trouble
36:40
Speaker 3: with the new diesel engines, like we're saying, and he
36:42
Speaker 3: knows of too many people who've driven off into you know,
36:45
Speaker 3: Mongolia and the engine blows up because of the bad diesel.
36:48
Speaker 3: But he's like, if you drive a gas it just
36:50
Speaker 3: works well.
36:51
Speaker 1: And not only that, people think that diesel is what's ubiquitous,
36:54
Speaker 1: that it's what you're going to find everywhere in the world. No,
36:57
Speaker 1: you're gonna find gasoline because that's what motorcycles run on.
36:59
Speaker 1: Right First, the first vehicle for anybody in the developing
37:02
Speaker 1: world is going to be a motorcycle.
37:03
Speaker 2: It's not gonna be a car.
37:05
Speaker 1: So motorcycles are everywhere, so you can find gasoline, even
37:08
Speaker 1: if it's on the black market. I remember I was
37:10
Speaker 1: in northern news Beccha, Stan and they the country had
37:13
Speaker 1: no fuel in the northern part, and I went to
37:16
Speaker 1: the black market, and sure enough you could find gasoline
37:19
Speaker 1: because that's what the motorcycles ran on.
37:21
Speaker 4: Yeah, and and and I think the big thing too
37:23
Speaker 4: is this simplicity.
37:24
Speaker 2: You don't have that DPF. You don't have you know.
37:27
Speaker 4: The where they recycle, the exhaust gas recirculation, they're they're simple.
37:33
Speaker 4: I mean I don't I don't, I don't know. I mean,
37:36
Speaker 4: my other vehicle is like the epitome of that. The
37:39
Speaker 4: diesel overland vehicle you want, it's it's a you know,
37:42
Speaker 4: land cruiser. It's diesel. It's completely mechanically injected. It does
37:46
Speaker 4: not need a computer to run.
37:48
Speaker 1: But those are rare. You can't find those anymore. Yeah,
37:51
Speaker 1: but you got to buy.
37:52
Speaker 2: A used vehicle.
37:53
Speaker 4: But they're not the you know, the sunshine and rainbows
37:56
Speaker 4: that everybody thinks that the diesels are there. That it's
37:59
Speaker 4: really you know, I'm thirty five mile an hour uphills
38:02
Speaker 4: and I've spent you know, a fair chunk of change
38:05
Speaker 4: on turbos and inner coolers and all the stuff that
38:08
Speaker 4: the Australians due to those.
38:09
Speaker 2: To reliably get power out of them.
38:12
Speaker 4: And you know, the small diesels that they put in
38:15
Speaker 4: pickup trucks like I feel Americans tend to, you know,
38:19
Speaker 4: since they've never really experienced these vehicles.
38:22
Speaker 2: They they romanticized.
38:24
Speaker 4: Yeah, they're very romantic, but drive a high lux diesel
38:29
Speaker 4: and you're probably going to be disappointed. I mean, remember
38:32
Speaker 4: the J eight we had a while ago, you know,
38:35
Speaker 4: that was the rest of the world spec vehicle, and
38:39
Speaker 4: it was great, but it wasn't It wasn't what people
38:42
Speaker 4: thought it was. You know, the gas engine was faster
38:45
Speaker 4: and this one was even tuned I believe by Mocar.
38:48
Speaker 1: So you know, it's an interesting time that we're in
38:51
Speaker 1: when it comes to vehicles, and it's an exciting time
38:53
Speaker 1: too when you just walk around the aisles of Ogland Expo.
38:56
Speaker 1: Any iteration imaginable.
39:00
Speaker 2: To mind.
39:00
Speaker 1: But you know, I think in as we kind of
39:03
Speaker 1: bring the podcast to to some clothes, is you know,
39:07
Speaker 1: from your perspective now having traveled extensively around two continents
39:12
Speaker 1: plus your time that you've spent in North America as well,
39:15
Speaker 1: so three continents of travel, what are some of the
39:18
Speaker 1: things that you want to share with people? Like You're like,
39:21
Speaker 1: what are the How do you distill all of this
39:23
Speaker 1: down these bite sized nuggets that people can then take
39:27
Speaker 1: their own action towards travel with.
39:30
Speaker 3: It's such a hard thing to do, Scott. You know,
39:32
Speaker 3: it was three years in Africa, and I feel like
39:34
Speaker 3: I owe Africa or responsibility to do a good job
39:37
Speaker 3: of explaining, you know, how happy the people are and
39:40
Speaker 3: how wonderful of a continent it is. And so I
39:44
Speaker 3: feel like for me, I always just try to encourage
39:47
Speaker 3: people to get out whoever they can and and you know,
39:49
Speaker 3: start going out on weekends and enjoy those trips, and
39:52
Speaker 3: then you know, next time you've got a long weekend,
39:54
Speaker 3: go a little further afield and then maybe work on
39:56
Speaker 3: your boss for a couple of years and get the
39:58
Speaker 3: time to go up to Alaska for a summer and
40:01
Speaker 3: just keep sort of exploring and learning and growing as
40:05
Speaker 3: you want to. You know, this whole idea of I'm
40:08
Speaker 3: going overlanding. You know, each person needs to sort of,
40:11
Speaker 3: I think, discover that on their own.
40:12
Speaker 2: What that is for them.
40:14
Speaker 1: Yeah, sure, absolutely, Well what's next after overland? Nextpo you're
40:19
Speaker 1: going to take a few weeks off or what's what
40:20
Speaker 1: are you doing?
40:21
Speaker 3: I've got a couple more shows lined up here on
40:23
Speaker 3: the East Coast, and then going to the Virginia Rooftop
40:26
Speaker 3: tent Rally is next weekend. And then actually I'm speaking
40:29
Speaker 3: at JEEP Homeland, which is a new dealer in Savannah, Georgia.
40:32
Speaker 3: They've built a huge, big off road course. Looks really impressive.
40:35
Speaker 2: That's cool, very cool.
40:36
Speaker 3: And then I'm over to SEEMA, which will be the
40:38
Speaker 3: last show of the summer, and it'll be my first SEAMA,
40:40
Speaker 3: so I'm really excited.
40:42
Speaker 2: And are you going to have the vehicle on display? Oh, definitely,
40:44
Speaker 2: that's great. Yeah, well, you'll enjoy it. Yeah yeah.
40:46
Speaker 3: I mean I've heard that it's automotive madness, which is
40:48
Speaker 3: my kind of madness, which is great.
40:51
Speaker 1: Well, and it's and it's always an interesting confluence of people,
40:55
Speaker 1: right yeah, yeah, and a Seema's worth doing. I think
40:58
Speaker 1: after about fifteen are doing it, I think I'm waning
41:01
Speaker 1: a bit, but I always do find it interesting.
41:03
Speaker 2: It never never has a shortage of being interested.
41:06
Speaker 4: Any excuse that I can find to get out of
41:08
Speaker 4: Sema at this point, it's it's it's good for a
41:10
Speaker 4: day for me.
41:11
Speaker 2: You know, the.
41:13
Speaker 4: Thirtieth f two fifty you see on twenty four inch
41:16
Speaker 4: rims and a fourteen inch left. It gets a little
41:19
Speaker 4: bit challenging. But I think the cool thing, you know,
41:22
Speaker 4: is to have your vehicle there. I mean it is
41:24
Speaker 4: there's a lot of overland and I'm using air quotes
41:27
Speaker 4: here builds at that show. But to have your truck
41:30
Speaker 4: that is so legitimate, I mean, and where can people
41:33
Speaker 4: find it at Sema?
41:33
Speaker 2: Are you in a booth or.
41:35
Speaker 3: It's going to be outside. I think it's right at
41:37
Speaker 3: the entrance of the south hole.
41:39
Speaker 2: Cool. Perfect, Yeah, that's great.
41:41
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I hope people do appreciate you know that
41:42
Speaker 3: it really has been used and yeah it's got rust
41:45
Speaker 3: and it's got dins and scratches from the rollover, but
41:48
Speaker 3: it's it's what it really looks like if you go
41:50
Speaker 3: and use it as it was designed.
41:52
Speaker 2: And built to be used.
41:54
Speaker 1: And Dan, how else can people follow you? What's what's
41:57
Speaker 1: your Instagram? How do they follow you in your travels
42:00
Speaker 1: on Instagram?
42:01
Speaker 3: I am the Road Chose Me and then I've got
42:04
Speaker 3: YouTube videos as well from all across Africa and that
42:06
Speaker 3: is also the Road Chose Me awesome.
42:09
Speaker 1: And then we've of course got we have Matt Scott
42:11
Speaker 1: here and Matt imports the Max Tracks product. He's been
42:15
Speaker 1: a part of the Overland community since its inception in
42:18
Speaker 1: the United States. Matt, how do people follow your adventures?
42:22
Speaker 4: So you can follow my sporadic ramblings on Instagram? Matt's
42:27
Speaker 4: Explore is my handle and that's probably the best way
42:30
Speaker 4: to to find me. You can, you know background, I'm
42:34
Speaker 4: an automotive journalist, so kind of got my start working
42:36
Speaker 4: with Overland Journal and I still write for them. Also
42:39
Speaker 4: do automotive reviews for Outside magazine. So if you happen
42:42
Speaker 4: to read that and read something about a car that
42:45
Speaker 4: you disagree with, you can you know, complain to me
42:47
Speaker 4: on Instagram.
42:48
Speaker 2: So yeah.
42:49
Speaker 1: In fact, Outside has a really great website. It is
42:53
Speaker 1: Outside online dot com and they do have some really comprehensive,
42:57
Speaker 1: thoughtful vehicle reviews. As the Landing segment becomes more and
43:01
Speaker 1: more engaged with the outdoor world.
43:04
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, it's really great. They they're kind of an
43:07
Speaker 4: old school publication. They really put the reader first, and
43:10
Speaker 4: I think that that's something to be said for, something
43:13
Speaker 4: to be said for that these days.
43:14
Speaker 1: Absolutely well, thank you all for listening again. This is
43:17
Speaker 1: our very first podcast brought to you at the Overland
43:20
Speaker 1: Expo East and we will talk to you again next time.
43:23
Speaker 2: See you guys. Thanks guys, thank you,