Latest / Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast / Shell Lake Massacre, Part 1

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Shell Lake Massacre, Part 1 · Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: O, Hey, what's up.
• 0:03
  Speaker 2: My name is Ben and I'm Nicole, and you're listening
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: to Wicked and Grim.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: A true crime podcast morning. The following podcast contains content
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: and material intended for a mature audience listener discretion.
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: Welcome, Hello, gohen, what's up?
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: It feels a little different this time.
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: It feels different. We have like some serious cool shit
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: going on.
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: We're like we probably like, I don't know what was it.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: We're probably at I'm seeing stumbling words. I don't even
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: know what to say. Oh my god, like eighty ish
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: to ninety ish listeners as of last episode, and as
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: of releasing this one, we're at almost six hundred of
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: you guys.
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it actually feels like a little bit. I'm almost
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: a little nervous.
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: Which is I mean, it's weird. I don't know what
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: to say. I don't know how to act. I'm just like,
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: you know, like buttoning up my shirt, making sure proper
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: for everybody. Okay, I don't know, probably not, but we'll
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: give your best.
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: We also probably had like twenty five hundred listens I think, right.
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we just hit twenty five hundred downloads, listens plays,
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: whatever you want to say on the last episode.
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: And and drum roll, please.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: Can I do a drum rollogoo?
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: What are we at now?
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: Ten thousand, ten thousand, two hundred and six, to be exact.
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: That's freaking wild, It's crazy.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: You guys have blown us out of the water this week.
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for your support, and welcome to
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: everyone else who's tuning in. We appreciate you guys. We've
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: got messages comments of people actually binge listening listening days,
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: which makes me like terrified because I can't imagine I
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: should go back and listen to our first episodes.
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: Oh you were going to?
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: I haven't yet, but I can't imagine how we've changed
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: since then.
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: Already, Yeah, probably.
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: Remember those episodes where we had like bloopers left in
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: by accident.
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: There's only been a one, isn't there?
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: I think there's like two, isn't there? And there was
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: just one either way. All the new people went back
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: and just hurt us, like mess up royally.
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: So yeah, oh okay there because there was my my
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: complete shit shows.
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: Fire all the episode five.
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: In the Donals. I apologized about that. Oh that was
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: just a rocky road, a rocky road. Yeah, but no,
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: but honestly, they're binging. People are binging like seventeen episodes
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: in two days, which I was like, or even twenty
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: four hours.
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: I was like, yeah there was.
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: People said you did it in one day, like good work, Yes,
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: like you deserve a medal pat on the.
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: Back at least cheers to you, guys.
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Our dog just loudly sighed she's tired.
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: Of our shit. Yeah, she's like, you guys don't deserve them.
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: Okay. And the other super cool thing, Ben, what are
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: you drinking?
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: I am drinking some juice from Cold Juicery.
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: So we have a discount code to share we do,
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: which is super awesome.
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: Before we get into the discount code though, for anyone
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: who's local, you know, Cold Juicery they make some pretty
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: dope juice.
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: So local as in Northern BC. Yes, yes, that's where
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: we're located in Prince George, BC. So Cold Juicery is
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: up at the Northern Sports Center, so like the UNBC gym. Yeah,
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: and you can just go in there to their juicery.
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: You don't have to be like part of the gym
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: or anything. And they have an awesome shop. And I
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: am legitimately obsessed with Cold Juicery. So the fact that
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: we I'm probably going to be the main one using
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: the fucking discount code.
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: Probably that's the only reason we became affiliates with Cold
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: Juicery is because it's a company that we are already.
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: Like, I think is dope.
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they're cool. We're totally down with supporting them and
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: having that little back and forth with them. So if
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: you order online, you can use Wicked fifteen and get
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: a discount from ordering their juices. Yeah, but again, it
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: is a local court.
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: The month of June.
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: Make sure you're Northern BC. Yes, for the month of June.
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: For the month of June, I'm just gonna say we're
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: drinking the Bold juice, which is actually one of my faves.
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: Apparently Ben is really enjoying it.
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: I kind of want to turn it into like a well, I'm.
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: Surprised that you haven't done that shit yet, orange carrot,
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: apple and lime. So it's like super good. We're boosting
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: our fucking immune systems.
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: Right now, we're being healthy.
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: We all need that shit right now, the healthy choice.
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: It's not bread in a bottle, it's not beer, it's
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: not whiskey.
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: Look at you. Yeah, you're like going up a class here.
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: With this I am sophisticated. I don't know if you
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: noticed when I drank this juice, I had my pinky.
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: In the air, you did. Yeah, So anyway, we'll put
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: a post up about it too. It's Wicked fifteen for
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: the month of June.
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, go hit them up, go support them. They're a
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: great business. Okay, you ready for this?
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: I am so ready because okay, this is like one
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: of the requests. We have probably gotten the most to
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: do this case.
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: Yes, it is. And my mic is like sagging here,
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: so I'm sorry, kind adjust a bit. I got a
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: like actually I have a saggy mic. There's a pill
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: for that.
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: Oh god it I couldn't. I could not let that go.
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: So anyway, we have a on our like highlights in
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: our stories, a place where you can request cases that
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: you think we would cover really well or just sweet cases,
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: And this one like came up constantly, yes, and we're
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: doing it so yeah.
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: Well, and I just want to give you guys that
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: heads up. Like usually we like to tell the story
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: from the perspective of the victims, like as much as
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: possible we can, you know, because we don't want to
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: help promote serial killers.
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: And their ass whole life or an exactly.
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: But the scenario is a little bit different. It's going
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: to be from the other side of things. It is
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: going to be from the killer's perspective. This is the
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: case of Canada's worst random massacre in history. So we're
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: going to look at the events leading up and what
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: took place and like, what's in the account through his eyes?
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: The worst?
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: Did you say it is the most worst random massacre?
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: Random?
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: Yes, this is the story of the Shell Lake massacre. Okay,
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: I don't know if you guys are ready for this,
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: but I don't know. This is a tough one. So
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: take our warning at the beginning of this podcast, very
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: very seriously. Yeah, you consider yourself warned.
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: Okay, you just got really serious. Now, I'm like, do
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: I want to be.
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: Well, it's I mean, of course it is a murder case,
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: the massacre, but there is one specific spot in this
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: where it gets a little extra heavy.
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: Okay, let's do it.
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: So the story begins in a small village called Leask
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: I think that's how you say it, l e A
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: s K. It's just north of Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, and it
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: takes place in nineteen forty six.
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: Oh wow, Okay, I didn't realize this was quite that old.
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it's a while ago. It's a while ago,
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: but it's in the nineteen hundreds at least, so it's
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: not too long ago.
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: That's pretty long ago.
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean we were born like what forty two
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: years after this guy.
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: Was born, which is a long time.
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: So anyways, it starts in nineteen forty six with a
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: young boy named Victor Ernest Hoffman. He grew up in
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: an ordinary family of devout Lutheran Christians. Like other farmers
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: in the district, the Hoffman's practice mixed farming, which is
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: a practice of both growing hay and raising cattle. It's
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: kind of back and forth, right, Okay, there's a lot
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: of that around here too. Right.
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I didn't know there was like a name to it.
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: Well, now you know, you've done did learn something today.
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: So they would follow the seasons, you know, the routine
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: of the season, hanging in certain seasons and moving the
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: cattle and all that sort of stuff. And it included
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: the occasional holiday, just like anyone who works in nine
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: to five, but it would usually revolve around the farm schedule. Right.
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: They worked pretty hard and when the farm allowed then
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: maybe they would take a little holiday if possible.
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: Farming is like a really tough lifestyle.
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: It is. You gotta be you got to be a
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: hard worker and you got to be tough.
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: So now, of course, being religious, they also had Sundays
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: which was the Lord's Day and was primarily used for
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: church and worship. So it's your pretty standard family, especially
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: for in the nineteen forties, you know, Northern Canadian farming
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: family going to church, raising some kids, doing that whole
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: yet to me, yep, it's pretty pretty standard. So everyone
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: in this little district where they grew up in Leask,
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: the village and the surrounding area, they were all like
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: pretty much friends according to mister Hoffman, which.
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: Was it was a small town.
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was considered a village, so it's pretty small.
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: I'm not too sure what a village consists of. I
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: think a village is like under four hundred people or
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: something like that.
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: That's pretty small.
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: So according to Victor's parents, everyone in the area were
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: civil and friends. And there's a quote here actually from
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: the father. We live in a nice district and the
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: people are very nice. We are well known here.
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: Everyone just fucking nice.
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: Everyone knows each other and everyone's just fucking nice. According
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: to Nicole, it's a very tight knit community. Let's put
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: it that way.
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: There you go.
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: So to his parents, Victor was an excellent farmer, hard worker,
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: and a responsible person. He didn't seem very different from
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: and the other kids around his age. He seemed healthy.
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: He was a bit quiet and shy, but he was
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: able to amuse and entertain himself easily, just like any
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: other kid going outside to play sort of thing. Right.
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: He did have one close friend, but he mostly kept
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: to himself. As I mentioned, he was kind of shy. Yeah,
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: so as he grew up, he did drink or smoke,
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: and though he wasn't overly religious, he did occasionally attend church,
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: mostly just to make his parents happy, mostly his dad. Okay,
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: so in grade nine he did begin begin missing school
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: a bit like many of us do, going through that
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: rebalance stage of life. Exactly.
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: I never had that.
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: I skipped school I think twice. Once was to go
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: the new system system of a down came.
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: Remember I knew you then.
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: And the other time was I wanted to go to
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: the dollar store. I don't think you are goodie too, shoes.
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: You're welcome to my parents. Really, I was amazing.
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: We're both pretty good kids.
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: Actually our parents. I feel like we're pretty lucky them.
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: Not like that, like we had the same parents. We
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: do not have the same parents.
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: My parents and your parents are lucky.
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: There you go.
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: You're welcome, mom and dad. Anyways, moving on from that
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: awkward conversation thing.
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: Oh gosh, that was good.
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: So he began missing in school a little bit, and
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: the principal questioned why Victor wasn't coming to school when
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: the odd time when he was missing it. His parents
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: and principal talked, and the principal said, Victor is is
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: no trouble. He's very good in school, or he behaves
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: good in school at least okay, and he had no
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: trouble and he would have no trouble going right up
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: to grade twelve and graduating high school.
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: Nice.
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: But Victor didn't really progress like the principal had expected
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: or his parents had expected. Around grade nine something went
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: wrong and another. There's a lot of quotes through this,
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: just so you.
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: Know, I love that though.
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: So here's a quote from his father. His father said,
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: as far as being smart, he was just as smart
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: as the rest of the boys. He used to work
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: here and fix bicycles for the neighbor boys. In what
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: they couldn't fix, he could.
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: Wow, that's actually like a compliment and a half.
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: It is. So he's he's he's got his head on straight.
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: He's he's a smart kid, and he he can work
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: with his hands. He's a hard worker. He's he's knowing
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: what he's doing. He's very what's the word I'm looking for, competent.
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: So Victor continued to work in the farm and was
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: extremely good at whatever work he would do, and so
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: much so that he would even work on other farms occasionally.
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: Oh okay, he got recruited.
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: He did. He had a knack for figuring out a
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: lot of issues on farms, like how to plant the
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: seeds properly or hay the fields in a certain way,
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: because it's like you got lots of ruts or wet
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: spots and all this sort of thing, So figuring out
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: the lay of the land sort of thing. He had
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: no problem overcoming any obstacles out in the field like that,
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: whereas a lot of people had issues problem solving.
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: I've gone by farms and stuff, it's always really impressive,
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: like you see little patches of like where it's probably
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: too wet, and I'm like, oh, man, like they just
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: know they're feeling so well, that's impressive.
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: And Victor had no problem reading the field like that
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: and was able to figure it out no problem. So
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: he knew what he was doing when it came to
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: the field work. Little did his parents know, though, Victor
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: was struggling. And maybe it was because he was able
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: to hide it well. Or maybe it was because his
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: parents were distracted with the farm, or maybe it was
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: because they had six other kids taking up their time
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: as well.
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: That was wrong.
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: Well, either way, Victor, Victor was suffering alone. Let's put
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: it that way.
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: Mental health, we'll get into it.
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: Okay, we'll definitely get into it. Jumping ahead a little bit.
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: According to medical reports, Victor had actually been suffering here
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: it is from schizophrenic schizophrenia most of his life.
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: Victor recounted an event from his childhood that here you
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: ready for this, that he saw the devil when he
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: was just six years old.
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: Oh boy, holy shit.
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: Can you imagine being six years old face to face
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: with a devil? Oh my parts, Nope, I'm out, I'm sorry.
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: And then on top of it, hiding.
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: That from your parting that for that long and stuff.
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah no, thanks, Well, yeah, like you probably wouldn't feel
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: comfortable saying that, knowing that they were like religious and stuff.
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: Right, Well, I would think, I like, from my perspective,
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: and I mean, I'm not schizophrenic by any idea or anything.
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: Maybe I am, I don't know, maybe you're a figment
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: of my imagination. Shit. Anyways, from my perspective, I would
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: think that like going to my parents or the church
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: or praying or something might be able to help me
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: from the devil.
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, to tell your parents might be helpful. It's actually
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: surprising at that age that he could hide it from them.
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: I remember I would probably like kindergarten grade one, and
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: I like prank called someone and I didn't last like
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: a fuck an hour before I had to tell them,
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: and I was freaking out.
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: The guilt got to you.
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: But I was just like bawling, Oh my gosh, I'm
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: so sorry.
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: So I wouldn't you have to tell us what the
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: prank call involved. I've never heard the story before.
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: Oh it was nothing like I literally just the phone
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: and dialed numbers and then someone was like hello, hello,
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: and then I hung up.
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: That's it.
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: That's not even a prank call. But then I was like,
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: oh my god, I'm a terrible person. Wow. That is yeah, Laine, underwhelming,
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: it's very lame. But I couldn't even hold that in.
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: So there you go. I wouldn't be able to hold
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: in that I saw the devil.
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no kidding. Anyways, let's get back to the story
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: a bit here. I'm going to tell you what the
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: devil actually looked like. Oh, I want to know the
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: creature stood. I'm going to refer to his creature devil
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: back and forth a little bit, depending on how I
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: wrote this. I'm sorry, that's fine. I was tired when
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: I wrote it, so that's fine. The creature or devil
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: stood about six feet tall. He was black as night
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: with a long tail. But this encounter wouldn't be the
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: only encounter with the beast. He would also begin to feel,
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: in the middle of the night, at times of day,
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: random places wherever, that he was being seduced by both
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: Satan and God, being pulled one direction or the other.
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: Oh wow.
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah for a little six year old boy, and as
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: he's grown up to feel this sort of.
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: Shit, well yeah, that's like traumatizing.
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: Rely Oh, it's brutal. Sometimes he would even hear tapping
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: sounds and would wake up at night to a drumming
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: sound that would get faster and faster.
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: And that's the devil.
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: Well, I would most likely think so. Either that or
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: it's just some noisy neighbor with a drum.
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: Set like you. You don't have a drum set, but you
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: can be a noisy well, not even a neighbor to
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: live with you. You're noisy.
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: Thank you. I love you too. Wow, I loved you too.
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: Appreciate it. So, when he was about ten, he began
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: having strange experiences and daily impulses to quote unquote kill
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: at ten at ten years old, okay, he would have
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: impulses to kill strangers, oh, my neighbors and even friends
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: when he would meet them.
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: Holy shit, I that's so little. Yeah, you should be
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: like making my pies.
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: And stuff making.
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: That's very specific, not like being visualized and killing people.
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure ten year olds these days are playing
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: fortnight and.
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: Texting and sit well, ten year old back then wouldn't
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: be doing that.
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no kidding. So, like I said, through all this,
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: he never told his parents about it, not once. He
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: didn't discuss any of his problems, and as far as
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: anyone knew he had, he was a normal child. He
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: had a normal childhood, and he was maybe just a
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: little bit shy.
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: I can't believe he could hold that shit in.
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: Okay, I can't hold in a fart, let alone anything
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: like that.
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: Oh well, maybe he was better at holden in his farts.
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: Maybe maybe, or no, he probably was worse at it.
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: I mean, because he was so good.
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: At this, oh one of the other who knows. Anyways,
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: he's a better man than I am. That's all I know.
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: So throughout all his impulses to kill, he never acted
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: towards them.
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: Well, at ten, I doubt he could even do it.
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: But okay, well, I.
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: Mean you never know. I mean, give a kid a gun,
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: you never know what's going to happen, right, especially a
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: farm kid. Right.
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, he sounds smart and tough and stuff.
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but what he did do is he did direct
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: his impulses against animals.
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: Shit, I should have saw that coming. I have a
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: problem with that.
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah you do.
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: So my reaction was more intense.
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: Book.
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: Oh lord, I don't know if I want to hear
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: any of that.
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: But okay, once he caught a cat in a trap,
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: and he threw the trap and the cat inside a smokehouse. Nice,
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: and he left it there for three weeks.
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: Oh god.
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: Okay, but he did take it out and let it
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: go because he did feel bad.
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: What is a smokehouse? Okay, I thought that he was
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: like smoking it.
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: No, he didn't smoke. He just an inactive smokehouse.
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: A smokehouse, so he's just like holding a captive.
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: For three Yeah, he starved it, Oh my god, in
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: a cage for three weeks. A smokehouse though, basically, picture
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: like a little shed with like racks in it. You
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: can light a little fire inside and like smoke salmon.
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: Or something.
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: No, he didn't smoke the cat, but he did put
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: it in there without an active fire, So he did
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: feel bad for the cat, and he did let it go.
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: Even though he did let this one go though, because
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: he felt bad for the extended torture of the animal,
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: he did continue to kill. He would club cats, he
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: would stomp on them, hurt them in other ways. He
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: killed dogs, several hundred squirrels, and enjoyed hunting wild game.
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: Killing animals just straight up made him happy.
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: I just want to address the hunting thing real quick,
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: because I do know hunting is like a controversial topic
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: for some people. I'm a hunter, I do hunt. I
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: have pulled the trigger on animals. I'm going to say
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: that right now. I do not enjoy killing animals.
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: Well, and it's done in the most humane way possible. Yes,
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: And I'm feeling like he probably well, I don't think
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: he did it that way.
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: Well, he may have done it in the most human
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: way possible. But when you talk to most hunters, and
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: I have had this conversation with hunters in the past,
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: if you talk to a hunter, ninety nine point nine
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: percent of the times, they're a decent human being. They
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: enjoy going out hiking, they enjoy going out camping, they
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: enjoy tracking the animal, calling the animal, the thrill of hunting,
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: the pride even when you do get something. But that
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: moment in having to pull the trigger and actually take
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: the life of an animal is the hardest thing you'll
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: ever have to do. It's not enjoyable. No hunter that
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: I have ever spoken to likes that part. You actually
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: asked me a few years ago how I can pull
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: the trigger on an animal. Do you remember what I said?
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: If I can think if I think about it, I
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: wouldn't be able to do it.
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: Oh okay, I don't remember.
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: It's it's it's not fun.
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So but then okay, but honestly, going to the
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: grocery store and stuff, like those animals still like died
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: right for you to be able to like eat them
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: and like nourish your body and stuff.
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: So it's like, yeah, it's hunting is more like a
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: as far as hunter's perspective. Yeah, it's a more sustainable
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: way of filling your freezer and a more humane way
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: of it.
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: And it's organic as shit because lord knows what.
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: Yes, and like one animal can feed a family for
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: a whole year, yeah, rather than multiple animals dying for
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: a certain parts. Anyways, that's a whole other conversation.
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: Okay, So the hunting, okay, maybe that's fine, but the
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: killing of the cats and the friggin dogs. Uh uh.
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: Well, my point is not that the hunting's fine. It's
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: hunt Like he enjoys killing the animals, so that's why
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: he hunts.
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: That's not tool Okay, that's not cool.
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: Like he enjoys pulling the trigger.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: He enjoys t He's like satisfied by doing that.
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's not a hunter.
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: Okay, I seehere, Okay, I see where we're going with this.
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: So finally, after five minute conversation.
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: Sorry, everyone was along for that ride.
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: Once he did actually beat up a younger boy and
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: he kept beating him like the fight's over, and he
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: kept punching, cap kicking sort of thing, and Victor actually
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: threatened the boy and told him not to tell anyone,
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: and the boy being fearful of the situation, and Victor obliged.
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: He didn't tell anyone about it.
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: Well, like what he went to his parents? And what
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: the hell did he say happened to him?
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I ran into a door.
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: So interesting.
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: So one day, while having breakfast, Victor began to hear voices.
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: He heard the devil calling to him, so he followed
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: the voice, and he followed it out and to that
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: he saw a figure standing before him that was about
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: six foot six tall six foot sixty inches tall, sorry,
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: that weighed about three hundred pounds and looked like a pig,
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: and it had no clothes on. Is that the devil,
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: I would assume. So he's described the devil a little
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: bit differently a few times, but this is a very
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: specific description that I have found. So the first one
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: and this one are two different ways he has described
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: the devil. Oh okay, it's a big pig like figure,
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: basically weird, ugly. Yeah. When he saw the figure, it
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: told him that he would have to that he could
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: make him very rich if he would only just bow
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: to him. Oh boy, like anyone. Though, Victor was reluctant.
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: He didn't bow to the devil, but eventually he did
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: kneel down on one knee, thinking this would make him
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: half as rich and still please the devil.
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: Oh goodness, he.
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: Didn't become rich, of course, maybe because the devil wasn't
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: real or but Victor thought it was because he refused
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: to actually fully bow to the devil. Since then, he
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: saw the devil about a total of twenty times. One time,
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: the devil even helped them pick berries.
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: Actually, oh my gosh, that's so random.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: But the devil wasn't very good at it. I guess I.
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: Wouldn't be very good at picking berry either.
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: No, you wouldn't, oh, not picking. I thought you said
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: you wouldn't want to pick. I thought you were going
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: different way with that. I thought you're gonna say you
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: didn't want to pick berries with the devil. That's gonna
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: be like what it's a nice Sunday afternoon.
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: No, first, I'm not going to at picking berries, and
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't want to pick them the devil.
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: Could you imagine though, just like off in the field
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: picking berries with the devil? Okay, what berries do you
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: picture picking when you think of that. I don't know why,
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: but I just thought blueberries. All of a sudden, I
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: was like blueberries, just picking blueberries with the devil.
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: I think it went like strawberries. That's like really random
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: and weird. It is, anyways, not a memory as a child.
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: Well, if that's not unsettling enough, though, He also saw
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: disembodied cold hands several times. They were floating and they
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: would then feel and touch him on his neck and body.
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: So just floating hands that would just grope him basically cool.
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: I didn't say anything about sexually, but it would like
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: grope him.
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: That's awesome.
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: And not much can beat that. Oh gosh wow. Okay, anyways,
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: Shortly after he saw the devil, when he was young,
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: Victor also began to see what he would call angels.
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: They looked like human beings and they were mostly dressed
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: like women. One angel tried to actually protect him one
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: day and told him many times that he needed to
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: stop killing these animals, but then the devil attacked her,
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: and oh, yeah, it's kind of fucked up and claim
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: and he claims that he suddenly found himself standing there
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: with a sword in his hands. So the devil is
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: wrestling with an angel and Victor's standing there and with
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: a sword in his.
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: Hands, which is random.
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I did, Okay, let's move on.
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: He would somehow probably described that sword somewhere.
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: Well, if there even was one, okay, but whatever it was,
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: if there was anything in his hands or not. He
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: succumbed to the urge to attack another angel that was
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: beside him.
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: Oh he's attacking the angel.
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: The angel he for whatever urge he had. He didn't
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: want to, but that's the urge he had. Yeah. Occasionally,
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: God and angels would tell him that he could not
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: make plans because only God can do this for him.
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: So we're dealing like these are the sort of things
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: that's going through a young man's mind, like starting at
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: the age of six, and he's bill in school at
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: this point, like this.
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: Is He's like, it doesn't have any outlet, outlet to
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: be talking about this ship to anyone.
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: With and like right around now he's he's about the
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: age of fifteen, and he's also like, we're just getting
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: into this, but he's also obsessed with guns. He's getting
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: into guns now.
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: It's perfect combination.
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: So it's it's deep, it's dark, and it's it's.
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: So messy because back then too, like I don't know,
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: I feel like mental health or mountain illnesses is like
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: more of a thing that's like you could openly be
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: about now, yeah, and back then it's probably like even harder. Right, oh, definitely,
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: like not like almost frowned upon or whatever.
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: I'm sure it was your.
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: Shit together or whatever. So it's come a long way, thankfully, thankfully,
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: thankfully for sure.
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: Holy So, like I said, Victor was obsessed with guns
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: at this age, and he actually broke into a local
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: store and stole several guns and ammunitions.
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: Oh boy.
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: He was never actually caught, though he got away with it,
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: but his obsession got the better of him because at
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: the age of seventeen, he broke into that same story
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: again and a neighbor actually found ammunition that he had
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: stole and reported it to the police. He didn't serve
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: very long. He was only in jail for a couple
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: of days he did. It was only like a couple
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: of days of jail though, as far as I could find,
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: so it wasn't very long.
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: But they thought that he just still on ammunition, maybe
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: not guns too. Wait what the guy that reported him
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: did he say that he just stole like bullets and
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: stuff or like guns.
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: No, he found ammunition and reported him to be the thief,
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: and so they like, sorry, I.
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: Was not there. Okay.
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: So throughout this whole time, the devil kept appearing and
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: speaking to Victor, trying to get him to sell his
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: soul and threatening him that if he didn't follow his advice,
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: he would die a million deaths, like this is some
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: dark shit.
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: Well that's pretty terrifying.
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: Well I can't I starting at the age of six,
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: is what now been eleven years of this?
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: Eleven years?
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: Okay? So Victor also heard from like I said, God
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: and angels, and God actually promised him that he would
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: be taken to heaven if he could catch the devil.
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: Oh.
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: Victor tried a few times to catch the devil and
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: managed a few times, but the devil kept getting away.
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: Once he even had the devil, but he had to
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: let it go because apparently the stench was just so
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: bad he couldn't stand it. So he never did end
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: up actually catching that.
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: That's like really interesting.
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so when he was nineteen, he actually tried to
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: shoot the devil and he was also unsuccessful, which is
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: just messed.
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: I'm just like actually feeling like really bad for him.
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: Oh, he's going through so much.
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: Like I feel like really bad, like he needed help
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: that he wasn't getting definitely well.
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: He even said at one of these times, when he
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: tried to catch the devil and the devil escaped, the
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: devil took away Victor's magic from him. Whatever that even means.
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: Well, maybe it's like zest for life or something.
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: I don't know. So anyways, on the morning of May
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: twenty seventh, nineteen sixty seven, his mother heard a shot
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: and then another shot. She went outside to the fields
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: where Victor was and she was about halfway there and
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: she hears him shouting, I shot the devil. She pleaded
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: with him as she got closer. She's tried to get
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: closer and closer to him, like don't shoot, don't shoot,
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: And eventually she did get up to him, and she
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: got the gun away and took Victor back to the house.
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: That day was also a little bit different because he
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: was feeling physically ill from some chemical treatment processes they
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: would do to treating the grain on the farm. He
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: had like some burns and stuff on him, so it
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: could have made him even worse.
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: Who knows, right, Okay, I thought that was going to
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: go down worse, but okay.
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it seems like she could have gotten shot.
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: He was shooting his siblings or something and didn't realize
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: or something.
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: So anyways, a short while after they got back to
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: the house and he took off in a car and
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: just drove away.
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: Oh man, yeah, she needs to stop him.
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: Well she couldn't. Like she'd gone back to the house
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: and he just peeled out.
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: Oh boy.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: So immediately as soon as he was gone, though, his
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: mother and father hid all the guns in the house
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: because something something's not right at this point. Clearly they
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: may have not known things are going wrong before, but
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: now shouting in the middle of a field, I just
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: shot the devil while firing shots off in the middle
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: of the air. Something's fucked up.
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: Something's not quite right here.
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so they hit all the guns, and thankfully they did,
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: because half an hour later Victor returned asking where the
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: guns are, saying, no one's going to get hurt, and
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: they didn't give him the guns. And he left again
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: and then came back again. And when he came back again,
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: he said he wanted to speak to the local pastor.
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: Oh geez, his poor parents are probably just like freaking out.
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: Oh I can't imagine that situation.
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: Oh man, that would be the most stressful shit to
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: deal with.
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: So the pastor came to see Victor that afternoon, amongst
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: all this stress.
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: I guess, well, of course, he probably fren sped his
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: ass there. Well, yeah, like, let's get this down to
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: business here.
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: Well, and just to kind of get a perspective on
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: the parents here, I do have a quote from the
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: father again at this point in time, and he said
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: that poor guy, I guess he called for help. I
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: guess he didn't know which way to turn. So he
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: just the pastor is where he.
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: Was going, right, So he's going the right way at
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: that point, yes, yes, So.
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: While Victor was talking to the pastor, his mom tried
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: to listen, but she couldn't hear much. The only thing
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: she did manage to hear was right at the end
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: of their conversation when the pastor was leaving, and Victor said,
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: and I quote, I'd like to kill mom.
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: Oh wow, that's shit that you don't want to hear
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: from your son.
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: No kidding, that's.
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: Oh, that's terrifying.
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: So the next day Victor was taken to the Saskatchewan
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: Hospital at North Battleford, which is one hundred and twenty
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: seven kilometers away. I mean, I props to them for
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: making it through the night. Yeah, like the next day
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: that I would have been like, yeah, I don't know
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: if I can stand next to my son who wants
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: to shoot me. Yeah. So anyways, they made it there
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: and the psychiatrist had found Victor to be quote unquote
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: schizoid in the state of acute schizophrenic reaction, and that
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: he needed to be hospitalized.
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: Okay, that's good, though Victor.
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: He was only getting worse at this point. He clearly
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: understood his own condition and how bad he was getting
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: because he voluntarily admitted himself, okay, to the clinic on
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: May twenty ninth, nineteen sixty seven.
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: Okay, awesome, that's good. That's a good step.
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: It is definitely is so when he was admitted, his
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: state became clear to psychiatrists quickly. He talked to himself periodically,
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: he laughed when he was alone. He was concerned whether
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: he was a boy or a girl, because he said
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: the devil put another brain in his body as a
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: special kind of punishment for refusing to sell his soul.
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: And the brain was said to belong to a girl
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: named Denise, who now wanted to take over his body
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: in order for her to become herself. Again.
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: Wow, that's wild.
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: He also complained of stomach cramps and burning sensations, and
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: the hospital said he would masturbate daily, which I think
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: that's just a young man's thing. I don't think that's
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: anything to be concerned about. That's normal health, I think.
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: Okay, no comment.
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: Anyways, moving on. So, because of all this though, Victor
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: said he wanted an I quote eternity of death. He
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: just wanted it all to end.
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: Okay, Oh man, the poor thing. Really.
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: Uh it's just crazy what he's going through.
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: I can't that's so young because at this point, okay,
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: is he like seventeen there? M not sure.
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: Well, nineteen sixty seven are.
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: Oh that's older.
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: I think he might be twenty twenty one, somewhere in there.
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: Still quite young. Yes, oh boy, that's like quite the life.
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: It's I don't know if that is a life. Well yeah,
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: frig So he reported his visions and encounters to the doctors,
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: but he was told they weren't real and they were
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: only in his head. But of course, you know, Victor
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: fought that. He's like, no, like I fought the devil
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: one point, I touched the angels and touched the devil
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: like it's real.
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: It feels so real to him.
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: But he quickly came to realize that if he kept
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: saying this, he would never get out of the hospital.
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: Oh no, oh, so maybe they weren't handling this.
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: Right then, Oh, the hospital definitely wasn't handling this right.
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: We're getting into that. Don't worry, don't worry.
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: So he was diagnosed with schizophrenic disorder, chronic with uncontrolled
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: symptoms and severe social handicaps. He was started on a
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: series of twelve ECT twelve etcs, tranquilizers, occupational therapy, and
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: supportive psychotherapy. So to clarify, though, the ECT is electroconclude
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: electroconvulsive therapy also referred to as electro electroshock therapy. What so,
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: I did read up a little bit on electroshock, and
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: it's not as bad as movies portray it to be. Okay,
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: though it still is is not a good thing.
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: It's not what he needed, that's for sure, right.
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: Well, electroshock therapy it's a procedure to use to treat
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: like depression and maybe use for people have symptoms symptoms
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: of delusions, hallucinations, thoughts. It's electrical stimulation which lasts up
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: to eight seconds that produces a short seizure, but because
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: of anesthesia, the seizure actively doesn't like actually cause the convulsions.
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: It's not known exactly how the brain stimulates the treatment
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: like correlates between the two, but apparently it's like supposed
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: to help the brain chemicals or neurotransmitters or something. But
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: it's still it's usually like against people's will.
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: And it's I wonder, I don't.
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: Think so or if it is very rare cases, but
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: it's very controversial treatment. But it doesn't sound as bad
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: as movies make it seem. So sorry, I stumbled through
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: that that was like medical copy and paste.
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: Trying to read that we knew what you were saying
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: there so after.
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: His second etc. Treatment, there was improvement. He was more pleasant,
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: less withdrawn, but still delusional.
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but he's faking it, not.
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: Really, he's just not being as open and honest maybe,
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: but he's definitely not faking anything. So after his fifth treatment,
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: he was more cooperative and social and stated that his
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: ideas of seeing the devil and talking to them were
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: probably just his imagination. But he did say he still
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: had magic powers.
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: Those weren't going away.
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: No, no, ect can't take away the magic.
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: No, definitely magic powers. You're keeping those.
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: Yep. Dance magic dance. Sorry. Anyways, after his ninth treatment,
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: not much would changed, but he did claim like he
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: was his usual self. So his twelfth treatment he was
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: doubtful about all the devil and all the angel and
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: all that stuff. He still believed that at times the
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: Black Devil was with him, and he said that if
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: he was discharged, he would try again to catch and
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: destroy the devil.
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: So that doesn't seem like he's really healed at all.
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: Not really, he's not really at all.
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: Because yeah, that doesn't seem like that's really healed at all. Yea,
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: even remotely.
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: But in Victor's mind, he'd never been more ready to
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: go home and enjoy his life. So her main cooperative, pleasant, sociable,
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: all that sort of stuff. He was a little bit sclusive. Still,
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: they did let him out, let him out. They did
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: let him out.
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: Even though he was still saying that he was seeing
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: the devil.
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: Yes, what okay, so we're a little bit ahead here,
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: let me just catch up O. So killing was however,
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: still in his mind he thought of siblings as being dead,
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: killing his parents, classmates. To be clear, though, all these
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: times that he does want to kill, he doesn't want
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: to kill. It's just an urge to kill. It's not
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: that these people deserve to die or he wants to
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: kill him. It's just this overwhelming like sensation that he
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: needs to kill.
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: That's a lot of serial killers, yes, and murderers and stuff.
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: They'd have this urge, yes, and they act on it.
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: So he just knew he felt the urge to kill someone,
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: but he had no reason too, but it was there.
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: So the psychiatrist told Victor's father he was schizophrenic. Schizophrenic
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: but not too bad.
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: Fuck that yeah, holy frig he asked.
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: He asked the doctor how long until Victor be able
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: to come home? And the doctor said maybe a year
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: or two and he'll be as good as ever. However,
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: July twenty sixth, nineteen sixty seven, only two months after
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: he was admitted, Victor was discharged to his family. Why
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: I don't know, because the doctor's a dick.
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: Two months when at one point he told his father
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: that it was going to be like a year or two. Yep,
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: they probably just didn't want to deal with him anymore.
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: Probably I thought they couldn't do any better or whatever.
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: That's baloney, But this seems like it's a common theme
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: where just people aren't taken seriously, their conditions aren't taken seriously,
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: whether they should be released sooner or later. It seems
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: like just mental illness has never never taken as quite
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: as serious as it should be.
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: Well, especially back back in the day.
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: Oh definitely. So he was released with some medication though,
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: to be clear, to help him recover. You know, just
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: that little little good good in your system, right to go,
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: I'm sure, Oh exactly, a couple little you know, tic.
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: TACs and you're good solid.
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: So when he came home from the hospital, Victor knew
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: something was going to happen to him. Oh, gosh, like
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: right away.
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: Oh gosh, it's already just like a big mistake.
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: In the hospital, a patient even told him that he
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: was going to commit murder three weeks after being discharged.
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: The boy Victor thought must have had visions or something,
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: because Victor had visions and stuff too. Right, yeah, like
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: this this guy knows something. He believed him. He's like,
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: it's reading the future.
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: What's in my head right now? I'm like, how many
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: more cats are going to get.
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: Well, we're not looking at cats.
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: I know where we're done with the cats, but I
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: still can't get over the cats.
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: So he was glad to be home. It was hard
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: to get used to the farming again. You know, he's
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: a little bit weary entire, but he was. He was happy.
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: He started being without his medication about August eighth. Victor
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: felt like he was fine till August eleventh. Okay, and
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: this is only like two weeks after being discharged.
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: Right like that? Did they not say this medication was
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: like life for life?
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't think so. And I'm sure
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: back then they probably didn't even care.
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: No, no, you're good to go. If you feel okay,
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: you're good.
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And around August eleventh, when things didn't quite feel right,
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: Victor knew that something was up. He's like, I'm either
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: going to go to jail or back to that hospital.
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: And he didn't want to go back to that hospital
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: because he didn't like that electric electric shock therapy. So anyways,
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: every day after August eleventh, he would imagine killing someone again.
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: Oh no, he just wanted to kill He wanted to
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: kill his brothers.
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: Oh no, oh no, you know, but he didn't so oh,
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: I was just so, I just need to know who's
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: going to die? Is that too much to ask?
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: It's coming, It's coming. He confessed to his friends that
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: day that he wanted to kill somebody, and you know,
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: his friends are just like, you don't seem like the type.
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: That's it. You don't seem like.
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: The type, okay, but honestly, like, legitimately, your friends would
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: probably never think that. You would, like, if I admitted
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: something like that, I think my friends would be like, no,
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: I mean some leading up ship to it. Yeah, he
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: was in a mental facility.
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: But yeah, he just came out of a mental facility
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: and he's confessing to you he wants to kill someone,
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: and you're like, nah, you're not the type.
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: And yeah, you're just in there for kind of having
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: those urges and seeing the devil and weird shit.
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a little bit. That's a little bit sketch
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: right there. So yeah, Victor couldn't sleep though killing was
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: on his mind, thoughts that maybe he could kill might
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: bring him closer to the devil. Why that thought was there.
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: He didn't want to be closer to the devil, but
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: that thought was there.
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: So he couldn't get rid of it.
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: He couldn't shake it, couldn't shake it. Victor spent the
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: day of August fourteenth on the tractor, and at about
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: nine thirty pm that day, he lay on the couch
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: and fell asleep. His parents woke him up at about
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: nine thirty to go to bed, you know, get off
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: the couch, go to bed. But he couldn't fall asleep again,
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: and he began to imagine things so to keep himself occupied.
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: Instead of imagining these things and laying in bed, he
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: went to the garage and worked in the garage for
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: about an hour. Found he couldn't work anymore, you know,
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: he was too preoccupied in his mind and physically tired.
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: He's still recovering from the hospital. Right. Yeah, I was
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: about to say mental facility. That's not politically correct. My bad.
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: He paced up and down when suddenly he had a
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: strange feeling on the right side of his head. It
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: felt as if his whole body he had been cut
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: in half and something had left him. There was no pain, Wow,
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: it was more pleasure. And there was a very strong
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: impulse to kill.
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: Okay, like even stronger than the shit.
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: He was already dealing with, even stronger than before. With
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: this like, oh my gosh, be cut in half feeling,
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: it just overwhelmed him.
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: Because I'm like, keep working in the garage. That's good,
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: just keep your mind.
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: He didn't keep working in the garage. He gassed up
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: his car, Yeah, loaded up his twenty two caliber rifle,
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: and drove off.
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: Nice love it.
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: As he drove past lots of houses, he felt the
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: urge to stop at each one of them he passed,
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: so those lucky molphos was lucky moos, And every house
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: he passed, urge kept getting stronger. But he kept keeping
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: kept driving.
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: And this is like the night time, in the middle
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: of the night.
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this is about two in the morning.
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: Or see, okay, it's poor people so he ended.
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: Up coming to a farmhouse. Whether urge was particularly strong,
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: and the voice in his head told him, this is it.
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: This is where you have to go and do it.
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: So unlike those other houses, Victor turned into the driveway,
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: stopped his car, got out, picked up his gun, and
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: went inside.
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: I just had to like look away from you. It's
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: like a horror movie that you have to like look away.
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: From You're saying, I'm a horror movie, like a train wreck.
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: You can't look at me than what you're presenting. I'm
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: just like, I can't look. I can't look, even though
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: I need to be covered my ears.
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: So he approached the house of the gun, and when
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: he entered the house, he recognized the kitchen.
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: He recognized the kitchen he had seen it in a dream.
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: Oh weird shit.
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: But that thought was cut short. He was cut short
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: by the sound of a man shouting who is it?
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: Inside the house was the family known as the Peterson's.
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: The man who is speaking was the father, James Peterson.
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: And we're gonna end the episode here. We we're gonna
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: do a second part for this boom. So if you
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: want to hear the second part to this episode, we're
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: gonna drop it. We like tomorrow. We're not gonna make it.
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: Oh no, we can't make them wait a week.
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: That would be mean, to be brutal.
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: That'd be so rude.
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: So that is the whole leading up to the massacre.
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: Drop it on Thursday, Michelle Lake massacre.
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: What we could drop it on Thursday?
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: That's just me. We'll drop it tomorrow. We can do
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: it tomorrow. You really want to make them wait an
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: extra day?
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: Wow, you're making me look like an asshole. You're like one.
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: I mean, I gotta get some Brownie points anyway I can. Right,
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: you need points always. Brownie points are a good thing
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: to collect. Okay, So the next episode will be tomorrow
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: and it'll be the second part to this. And you
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: learned all about the backstory. Now it's into the murder.
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: Wow, shit's gonna go.
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: Dang it is so you guys, Thank you for being here.
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: Thank you for giving us so much support. The ten
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: thousand downloads, the like six hundred of you who are
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: actively listening. You guys are.
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: Insane, amazing people it love it, love it. Appreciate you
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: until Wednesday. Stay wicked. You