Latest / UNFIT FOR RADIO with JAYKERS / “That Escalated Quickly”

Transcript

“That Escalated Quickly” · UNFIT FOR RADIO with JAYKERS

0:00
SPEAKER_05: Welcome to Unfit for Radio with Jakers.
0:02
SPEAKER_05: That's me.
0:03
SPEAKER_05: Also, currently the only person in the room lacking melanin.
0:07
SPEAKER_05: Melanin.
0:07
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
0:08
SPEAKER_05: Melanin?
0:09
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, that word.
0:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you're lacking it and the ability to say it.
0:12
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I don't I don't even I don't even have a pro permission to say that word.
0:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's probably the widest thing you did right there.
0:19
SPEAKER_01: And the funny thing is you're married to someone brown.
0:22
SPEAKER_03: The only one that doesn't have melanin in his clothes.
0:25
SPEAKER_03: That's hilarious.
0:27
SPEAKER_03: Probably on the block, too.
0:29
SPEAKER_01: That's true.
0:30
SPEAKER_01: You're the only one without melanin in the house.
0:32
SPEAKER_01: That's the truth.
0:33
SPEAKER_05: This is season three, episode two, but somehow episode 38 overall.
0:39
SPEAKER_05: And let's go.
0:42
SPEAKER_05: Today's episode is something special, and trust me.
0:45
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
0:46
SPEAKER_05: It's going to be a lot of fun.
0:48
SPEAKER_05: We uh we got some familiar faces and recognizable voices returning to the madness.
0:53
SPEAKER_05: These are some of my absolute favorite people I've had on the show.
0:57
SPEAKER_05: Real talk.
0:58
SPEAKER_05: First up, uh returning from the highly rated episode number six, where she shares some of her absolutely outrageous human resources stories and plenty of other workplace chaos.
1:12
SPEAKER_05: Please welcome back the one and only Mrs.
1:15
SPEAKER_05: Christine.
1:16
SPEAKER_01: Hi, everyone.
1:17
SPEAKER_01: I'm back.
1:18
SPEAKER_01: More stories to come.
1:19
SPEAKER_05: Thanks for joining us again.
1:21
SPEAKER_05: And you've been missed.
1:22
SPEAKER_05: How have you been?
1:23
SPEAKER_01: You know, it's been a journey the last few months since I've seen you, Jake, but it's good to be back.
1:28
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, we've had some we've had some highs and lows for sure, but we always land on our feet.
1:32
SPEAKER_01: Or something.
1:34
SPEAKER_05: We land on.
1:38
SPEAKER_05: And next up, giggling in the background, you can already hear uh is my brother from another mother with uh more melanin.
1:46
SPEAKER_05: What's that word?
1:47
SPEAKER_01: Melanin.
1:47
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, see, that one.
1:49
SPEAKER_05: He uh he first appeared back in episode eight and nine with some wild R.
1:53
SPEAKER_05: Kelly stories and all kinds of other forgettable conversations.
1:58
SPEAKER_05: Uh he's returning in episode 42, also called Reminiscing, so stay tuned for that one.
2:03
SPEAKER_05: Please welcome back Mr.
2:04
SPEAKER_05: Reggie Holmes.
2:06
SPEAKER_05: Hello, Reggie.
2:08
SPEAKER_05: Thanks for being here.
2:09
SPEAKER_05: Thanks for being my big brother.
2:11
SPEAKER_05: You've been missed.
2:12
SPEAKER_05: Anything new?
2:13
SPEAKER_05: I don't live in Arizona anymore.
2:17
SPEAKER_05: You abandoned us.
2:18
SPEAKER_05: I did.
2:20
SPEAKER_05: That's hurtful.
2:21
SPEAKER_03: What's funny is I think the last time we did an episode, we're the same color.
2:25
SPEAKER_03: We're definitely not now.
2:26
SPEAKER_03: No, you got some sun.
2:27
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, unfortunately.
2:32
SPEAKER_05: That's funny.
2:33
SPEAKER_05: You go to Texas to get some sun.
2:34
SPEAKER_05: We're in the desert.
2:35
SPEAKER_05: You didn't get no sun.
2:36
SPEAKER_05: Christine, you can laugh on the mic over here.
2:39
SPEAKER_03: We broke Christine.
2:40
SPEAKER_03: I didn't think that was possible.
2:42
SPEAKER_05: We broke her when she came in the door.
2:43
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
2:44
SPEAKER_03: I definitely broke her.
2:45
SPEAKER_01: Well, I was definitely left speechless, that's for sure.
2:49
SPEAKER_03: I didn't think that was possible to break Christine.
2:52
SPEAKER_01: You know, it it doesn't happen often.
2:54
SPEAKER_01: Like I said, usually I'm ready for foolery, but I got caught off guard today.
2:58
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
2:59
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
3:00
SPEAKER_05: Add that to my resume.
3:01
SPEAKER_01: Well.
3:03
SPEAKER_05: This episode is going to be about.
3:06
SPEAKER_05: What's it gonna be about?
3:08
SPEAKER_05: This episode is gonna be about church life in general, the highs, the lows, the different styles of churches, and everything in between, pretty much.
3:15
SPEAKER_05: Is that what we're talking about?
3:16
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, and we can also do other stuff.
3:18
SPEAKER_05: Uh yeah, we we we were covering, we were covering some off-topic things beforehand, but we can go back into that too.
3:24
SPEAKER_05: Noelle, let's not.
3:27
SPEAKER_01: Not all of it anyway.
3:29
SPEAKER_05: I don't know.
3:30
SPEAKER_05: Uh Reggie was being a fashion judge over here.
3:33
SPEAKER_01: You know what?
3:34
SPEAKER_01: In the age of technology, everything does not need to be known by everyone.
3:38
SPEAKER_03: She had the Coke.
3:39
SPEAKER_03: I just wanted the smile.
3:41
SPEAKER_05: The coke.
3:42
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
3:42
SPEAKER_01: Details.
3:43
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
3:45
SPEAKER_05: Coca-Cola.
3:46
SPEAKER_05: They don't make it like they used to.
3:49
SPEAKER_00: You're right, they don't.
3:50
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't taste the same.
3:51
SPEAKER_01: They messed up the formula.
3:55
SPEAKER_05: Where are we moving on to?
3:56
SPEAKER_01: So I have no idea.
3:58
SPEAKER_05: Reg, are you comfortable over there?
4:02
SPEAKER_01: Weren't we talking about me being broken a minute ago?
4:04
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
4:05
SPEAKER_01: Okay, just checking.
4:06
SPEAKER_05: Oh, that escalated quickly.
4:07
SPEAKER_01: Yes, it did.
4:08
SPEAKER_01: Hence the title.
4:09
SPEAKER_05: Okay, so uh Reg, you still uh you still work in church?
4:14
SPEAKER_03: Not in the orthodox fashion.
4:15
SPEAKER_03: I'll say that.
4:16
SPEAKER_03: I don't work for a church.
4:17
SPEAKER_03: We're always in ministry.
4:19
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
4:19
SPEAKER_03: Um and to turn from laughter to serious, um, I don't mind sharing this.
4:25
SPEAKER_03: Um my sister and I, we have pretty in-depth conversations with some level of frequency.
4:30
SPEAKER_03: And I like it because we are very good accountability people for each other.
4:35
SPEAKER_03: Um we just had one not too long ago.
4:37
SPEAKER_03: It was very, very insightful for both of us.
4:40
SPEAKER_03: And she was the one that that really, really got me.
4:45
SPEAKER_03: Uh, and she was like, hey, hey, hey, hey, stop not calling yourself pastor.
4:49
SPEAKER_03: You took vows, you wear that mantle.
4:51
SPEAKER_03: You don't get to just take that mantle off just because it's not attached to the specific ministry that gave you the mantle.
4:58
SPEAKER_03: You are a pastor.
4:59
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and she convicted me.
5:01
SPEAKER_03: And so, um uh it was very, very life-changing in the moment.
5:05
SPEAKER_03: I will say that.
5:06
SPEAKER_03: Like in all seriousness, that was very, very life-changing in the moment.
5:10
SPEAKER_03: And so um that's why I say no, I'm not operating in the orthodox fashion of ministry, like working on staff at a church.
5:18
SPEAKER_03: And I don't know if I will for a while.
5:21
SPEAKER_03: Um, but ministry happens all the time.
5:23
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
5:24
SPEAKER_05: We're still a part of the body of Christ, even in our natural lives.
5:27
SPEAKER_05: I mean, we don't have to really represent uh establishment to do so.
5:31
SPEAKER_03: Oh no, no.
5:31
SPEAKER_03: I I mean I prayed for a waitress at Crackerborough today.
5:34
SPEAKER_03: So like it happens.
5:37
SPEAKER_03: Only because I don't know.
5:39
SPEAKER_05: I'm just I'm white and I'm afraid to go there.
5:41
SPEAKER_05: Just because the name.
5:42
SPEAKER_05: I'm weird.
5:45
SPEAKER_05: I know I don't want to be in the barrel.
5:52
SPEAKER_05: And plus, you know all those I don't think they still have any more because they went through a remodeling phase, but they used to have some controversial things on the walls.
6:00
SPEAKER_05: They did.
6:00
SPEAKER_01: They started with some of the locations, but they did not finish.
6:03
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, they're not done back.
6:04
SPEAKER_05: So does this make me blacker than you guys?
6:06
SPEAKER_01: No.
6:06
SPEAKER_03: No, I'm just playing.
6:08
SPEAKER_03: I mean, once upon a time, before I start refereeing and being in the sun 12 hours a day, you were blacker than me.
6:13
SPEAKER_03: Anyway, um, no, I was at Cracker Barrel because they have this um this campfire situation, like this beef and potatoes and corn and stuff.
6:22
SPEAKER_03: No way.
6:23
SPEAKER_03: And then they have it's a beef and a chicken, and they put it in that like industrial grade prison uh foil, like the heavy stuff that you can't just tear.
6:30
SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah, the heavy-duty stuff.
6:31
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you know the you know the regular foil, you pick it up and it falls through.
6:34
SPEAKER_03: No, this is that industrial.
6:35
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
6:35
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
6:35
SPEAKER_01: I most people call that restaurant quality foil, but you said prison foil.
6:39
SPEAKER_01: So that's interesting that you went to prison.
6:42
SPEAKER_01: Anyway, um, uh you can continue your story.
6:45
SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry.
6:46
SPEAKER_05: That was so fascinating to her.
6:48
SPEAKER_01: It was.
6:49
SPEAKER_01: Usually when people think of thick foil, they say restaurant grade.
6:52
SPEAKER_01: That is the first time I heard someone saying that prison grade.
6:54
SPEAKER_05: Um that's some more complex things.
6:56
SPEAKER_01: I was about to go, Jake.
6:57
SPEAKER_01: Do you need to add some more questions to this podcast?
7:00
SPEAKER_05: I didn't do a background check beforehand.
7:01
SPEAKER_05: I should have.
7:02
SPEAKER_03: I mean, you don't need to.
7:03
SPEAKER_03: I'm FBI cleared four different ways.
7:06
SPEAKER_03: Uh, I mean, I work in schools.
7:07
SPEAKER_05: You played for President what, Zalinsky?
7:11
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
7:11
SPEAKER_03: Oh, that was fun.
7:12
SPEAKER_03: I forgot about that.
7:13
SPEAKER_03: You told me about this Christmas and eggnog.
7:16
SPEAKER_03: I did.
7:16
SPEAKER_03: I forgot about that.
7:18
SPEAKER_03: I prayed for uh played.
7:20
SPEAKER_03: You should pray for it too.
7:21
SPEAKER_03: No, I I prayed on the way there.
7:23
SPEAKER_03: I didn't know.
7:24
SPEAKER_03: Not to get political, but I definitely prayed on the way there.
7:26
SPEAKER_03: I forgot I played at his house uh for Christmas.
7:29
SPEAKER_05: You got in the car with like four Rambos and the Yes Green.
7:32
SPEAKER_05: Right.
7:32
SPEAKER_03: I have never seen so many bullets in my entire adult life.
7:36
SPEAKER_03: I was the most secure person on earth for like 30 minutes.
7:40
SPEAKER_03: Um yeah, that's funny.
7:42
SPEAKER_03: No, it's uh they have this campfire situation and the food's really good.
7:47
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
7:47
SPEAKER_03: Those two dishes.
7:48
SPEAKER_03: I'll have to check out their food.
7:49
SPEAKER_01: Their food is really good.
7:50
SPEAKER_01: Actually, I was just there a couple weeks ago when I was in Georgia with my sisters.
7:53
SPEAKER_01: So their choice of restaurant.
7:55
SPEAKER_05: So my mom goes there to get Christmas decorations sometimes.
7:58
SPEAKER_05: Like apparently they have That's fair.
8:00
SPEAKER_01: Oh, you mean the store?
8:02
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
8:02
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, she went there.
8:03
SPEAKER_05: I think she got the snowman that was walking up a ladder last year or something like that.
8:06
SPEAKER_05: It was pretty cool or something like that.
8:07
SPEAKER_01: They have a Santa that does that too.
8:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I don't buy any of their things.
8:11
SPEAKER_01: She's so bougie.
8:12
SPEAKER_01: What?
8:12
SPEAKER_05: My mom or Christine?
8:14
SPEAKER_05: Christine.
8:15
SPEAKER_05: She's so bougie.
8:16
SPEAKER_01: Duh.
8:17
SPEAKER_03: Anyway.
8:17
SPEAKER_03: She was shop there.
8:18
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, she don't buy things off the shelf.
8:21
SPEAKER_03: No.
8:22
SPEAKER_03: Or as they say, on the rack.
8:23
SPEAKER_03: She's never heard of Timu.
8:25
SPEAKER_01: I most certainly have heard of Timu.
8:28
SPEAKER_03: She's heard of it.
8:29
SPEAKER_03: We've all heard of it.
8:30
SPEAKER_01: I've most certainly heard of Timu.
8:32
SPEAKER_03: Hey, I mean, to be fair, I ain't never ordered anything from there either.
8:35
SPEAKER_01: I was about to say you ain't either, but you still know what it is.
8:37
SPEAKER_01: I've never ordered anything from Sheen.
8:40
SPEAKER_05: How do you order stuff from there?
8:41
SPEAKER_05: Because by the time you get through something, they're trying to pop up this and pop up that and this coupon and that coupon.
8:46
SPEAKER_05: Like, I don't know about that.
8:47
SPEAKER_05: Oh, I've never been through the promise.
8:49
SPEAKER_05: Seems like a condemnation.
8:50
SPEAKER_01: I looked at the website once and he's right.
8:52
SPEAKER_01: It's like you click and they've got things to spin.
8:53
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, oh child.
8:54
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
8:55
SPEAKER_01: Because I just wanted to see, but I got exhausted just going to the website.
8:59
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I don't have that patience.
9:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you're right.
9:00
SPEAKER_01: That's what I'm saying.
9:01
SPEAKER_01: The ads popped up and I went, Chow, and went back to what I was doing on Pinterest.
9:04
SPEAKER_01: I ain't got time for all that.
9:05
SPEAKER_05: Like Amazon doesn't do that.
9:06
SPEAKER_05: It doesn't make me do a game before I'm looking for.
9:08
SPEAKER_05: Right.
9:08
SPEAKER_05: Like, why we got activities?
9:09
SPEAKER_01: It's great.
9:10
SPEAKER_01: I don't I don't need activities.
9:12
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I don't have any.
9:12
SPEAKER_01: What are you warming up my brain to buy, you know, six gross or something for 25 cents that'll take nine weeks to get here?
9:18
SPEAKER_01: Right.
9:18
SPEAKER_02: Broken when it gets here.
9:19
SPEAKER_01: Right.
9:19
SPEAKER_01: Like I'm I'm good.
9:20
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I'm aware of it.
9:22
SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm aware of she, and I've never bought anything from them either.
9:25
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I've hear enough.
9:27
SPEAKER_03: My daughter got a dress from there and she put it on.
9:29
SPEAKER_03: I was like, nope.
9:31
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
9:31
SPEAKER_01: Those are the reels I see.
9:35
SPEAKER_01: What I ordered, what I got.
9:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's usually not the same thing.
9:39
unknown: Like, okay, click.
9:40
SPEAKER_03: So you don't know this.
9:42
SPEAKER_03: Most people don't know this.
9:43
SPEAKER_03: We have this back and forth every time we're together.
9:46
SPEAKER_03: Um, it's this bougie contest.
9:48
SPEAKER_03: I typically start it.
9:49
SPEAKER_03: I'd say 90% of the time I start.
9:52
SPEAKER_03: It's not all the time because she's got me a couple times.
9:55
SPEAKER_03: Um, but I typically start.
9:56
SPEAKER_03: I will totally admit that.
9:58
SPEAKER_03: I typically start it, and then she reminds me, you are no less bougie than I am.
10:03
SPEAKER_01: So I wouldn't consider it a contest because that would be that would imply that we were competing.
10:09
SPEAKER_03: That's true.
10:10
SPEAKER_01: I'm not competing with anybody.
10:11
SPEAKER_01: I'm just I just do what I do and pick up what I think.
10:17
SPEAKER_05: So you guys must be telling this to the other.
10:19
SPEAKER_05: We are.
10:19
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we're I'm talking to the audience.
10:21
SPEAKER_05: Because it's the level of detail you're talking to.
10:25
SPEAKER_05: I know you do.
10:27
SPEAKER_01: It's the level of detail he pays to some things that just it cracks me up.
10:31
SPEAKER_01: Like no one else, even if they noticed it wouldn't say anything.
10:35
SPEAKER_01: But you know, in true regime.
10:39
SPEAKER_05: The detail right, but yeah, that's he judged you down to the T when you walked in here.
10:48
SPEAKER_01: That's how, you know, and now I know he he was completely focused on the wrong thing because he didn't see the Hermes shoes, which was focused on the wheel.
10:56
SPEAKER_05: He just overlooked them.
10:58
SPEAKER_01: But normally it's you know, most people if they saw something wouldn't say anything, but this one will say something and call it out.
11:03
SPEAKER_01: So it's just kind of become a thing.
11:05
SPEAKER_01: And yeah, you're right.
11:06
SPEAKER_01: You start it, and then I go, wait a minute.
11:08
SPEAKER_01: If you have on such and such and your watch when the when the light hits it just right, I hear like heavenly sounds.
11:18
SPEAKER_01: Right.
11:19
SPEAKER_03: To be fair, today I did notice the shoes, but I'm used to the shoes.
11:23
SPEAKER_03: I'll leave it at that.
11:25
SPEAKER_01: Shoes and purses are my problem.
11:27
SPEAKER_01: Like any other.
11:28
SPEAKER_03: I'm used to.
11:28
SPEAKER_03: I wasn't used to this.
11:30
SPEAKER_01: Okay, we're moving.
11:30
SPEAKER_01: I'm done.
11:31
SPEAKER_01: We're moving on.
11:32
SPEAKER_05: So, what about this watch?
11:33
SPEAKER_05: Does he have like a Rolex with two R's?
11:36
SPEAKER_01: No, it's a real one.
11:37
SPEAKER_05: Oh, okay.
11:38
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
11:39
SPEAKER_03: You almost made me say something off.
11:42
SPEAKER_01: Right, that's why I jumped in.
11:43
SPEAKER_01: I saw your face like we'll talk about what he was about to say to you off mic.
11:49
SPEAKER_01: Because I know what he was gonna say.
11:50
SPEAKER_01: I know the face.
11:51
SPEAKER_01: And I'm gonna tell you exactly which words they were, but not right now.
11:55
SPEAKER_01: You would probably be right in the order.
11:57
SPEAKER_01: Right.
11:57
SPEAKER_01: I know what you've been saying.
11:59
SPEAKER_01: No, it isn't, no, it's a real one, you know, with with you know, it's a little diamond encrusted and all that.
12:05
SPEAKER_01: So when the need so when the lights hit it at church just right, when he got his mic up going to worship and it goes cling, and I'm like, don't talk about nothing.
12:12
SPEAKER_01: I come in.
12:14
SPEAKER_01: What is that?
12:15
SPEAKER_01: What is that?
12:16
SPEAKER_03: What is that?
12:17
SPEAKER_03: That's the birth of the conversation.
12:21
SPEAKER_03: Right.
12:21
SPEAKER_01: Because I'm like, you can't be talking to me.
12:22
SPEAKER_01: I saw your stuff, I just didn't say nothing.
12:24
SPEAKER_01: But since you're gonna talk about mine, yeah, I'm gonna talk about yours.
12:28
SPEAKER_01: So that's kind of how all that started.
12:30
SPEAKER_01: But I'm okay with being bougie.
12:32
SPEAKER_01: At this age, you just own it.
12:35
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
12:36
SPEAKER_03: We talked about that once.
12:39
SPEAKER_03: Now I have to, when I talk to you uh on the phone, I have to remember where I was.
12:45
SPEAKER_03: That helps me understand the conversation.
12:46
SPEAKER_03: So this was when I was in Jersey.
12:49
SPEAKER_03: Last time I talked to you, I was in New Mexico.
12:50
SPEAKER_03: I was in Jersey.
12:52
SPEAKER_03: We had that conversation because we were both laughing, like, as hard as we both work for as long as we have both worked, why would I apologize for how I live now?
13:04
SPEAKER_03: You know, it's real.
13:05
SPEAKER_03: Yes, it's real.
13:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm not gonna apologize for that because people will will make you second guess some things.
13:11
SPEAKER_01: And to tie in the whole church conversation, that that's where some of this comes up.
13:16
SPEAKER_01: Um having to be aware of and I and I don't I don't think musicians ha get hit like this as much as singers do.
13:28
SPEAKER_01: Um because I watch every to cross-pollinate here, watch you know, the the podcast you've done with other musicians and talking about the struggles that musicians have, there are some things that are very singer specific.
13:42
SPEAKER_01: And uh some of that is dress code.
13:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
13:44
SPEAKER_01: Um a lot of times musicians do not have dress codes.
13:47
SPEAKER_01: No.
13:47
SPEAKER_01: Um we have dress codes.
13:49
SPEAKER_06: For the singers, yeah.
13:50
SPEAKER_06: For the singers.
13:51
SPEAKER_01: And they're very aware of what you're wearing and what clothes you have on, and they make you very aware of it.
13:58
SPEAKER_01: And so if it's if it looks too expensive, if it's a little too designer, if it's a you know, they you know, there's there's some comment made.
14:06
SPEAKER_01: I've even seen pastors now starting, you know, thanks to preacher sneakers and getting called out on Instagram.
14:12
SPEAKER_01: Um, even a lot of pastors have kind of backed off.
14:15
SPEAKER_01: They're going more if it is designer anyway, what they call quiet luxury.
14:19
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
14:20
SPEAKER_01: So only if you know would you know.
14:22
SPEAKER_01: Um which usually I because the aforementioned bougie, I know what they're doing.
14:27
SPEAKER_05: They dress down on stage.
14:28
SPEAKER_01: They dress they either dress down or it's quiet luxury.
14:30
SPEAKER_01: So it's expensive stuff with no logos.
14:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
14:32
SPEAKER_01: So unless you know, you know I know, which you know, then I decide to be petty and call them on it.
14:37
SPEAKER_01: Um, or sometimes we've walked by and we're all wearing the same perfume slash cologne.
14:43
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, so they do it that way so that you don't know.
14:46
SPEAKER_01: But, you know, that's kind of how this conversation started is you know, you are on a platform because I don't use the word stage, you're on a platform.
14:55
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
14:56
SPEAKER_01: Churches platforms.
14:57
SPEAKER_01: Right.
14:58
SPEAKER_01: Um, and people are looking at you, and you will get the occasional stray about what you wear and what you're doing and what it is, and you know, it just at some point you have to go look.
15:12
SPEAKER_05: You're being judged at all times.
15:14
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
15:15
SPEAKER_01: So so I am more aware of, you know, what I'm wearing.
15:18
SPEAKER_01: And you know, I've I've done the the the quiet stuff myself, but you know, accessory-wise and purse-wise, look, if you in the room and you saw my Chanel purse, you'll live.
15:30
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
15:30
SPEAKER_05: It's not like you take your bag on stage.
15:33
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
15:33
SPEAKER_03: That's very true.
15:34
SPEAKER_03: Like on stage, very modest.
15:37
SPEAKER_03: What a probably the better way to to word the beginning of the conversation.
15:41
SPEAKER_03: On stage, very modest.
15:42
SPEAKER_03: Over in the corner where her belongings, there was a story.
15:46
SPEAKER_01: Right.
15:46
SPEAKER_03: You too, though.
15:47
SPEAKER_03: I mean, us all.
15:48
SPEAKER_01: Us all, right?
15:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
15:50
SPEAKER_01: And just because you're not seen on a platform doesn't mean the people in the room don't judge you for that, too.
15:55
SPEAKER_01: Um, because I've gotten some comments about that too.
15:57
SPEAKER_01: But it's like I am 51 years old.
16:01
SPEAKER_01: I've been working since I was 15.
16:04
SPEAKER_01: There are three degrees and four professional certifications and a whole lot of work behind this first and last name.
16:10
SPEAKER_01: I earned this.
16:11
SPEAKER_05: And not only that, but I think judging is different.
16:14
SPEAKER_05: And for one, you shouldn't judge people like that.
16:17
SPEAKER_05: But if you're going to, I mean, it'd be one thing to judge Christine because she is an employee of the church and all of her money comes from the church.
16:25
SPEAKER_05: And how is she able to afford something like that?
16:27
SPEAKER_05: But if they don't understand that you're up there volunteering for free and you have a well-paying job, why can't you?
16:36
SPEAKER_05: You know, life is short and treat yourself.
16:38
SPEAKER_05: You can do whatever you want with your money.
16:40
SPEAKER_01: Right.
16:40
SPEAKER_01: But even with church.
16:42
SPEAKER_05: If you want to wear your money, if you don't want to wear that's the freedom.
16:45
SPEAKER_01: Right.
16:45
SPEAKER_01: But even with people on staff, though, a lot of people on church on church staffs have second jobs.
16:51
SPEAKER_03: Right.
16:51
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
16:51
SPEAKER_01: Because churches don't pay like that.
16:55
SPEAKER_03: She knew.
16:55
SPEAKER_03: She knew.
16:56
SPEAKER_03: She saw my face.
16:56
SPEAKER_03: She knew I was gonna see my eyes lit up.
16:59
SPEAKER_03: Yes, a lot of us we're bi tri quad vocational.
17:02
SPEAKER_03: Right.
17:02
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
17:02
SPEAKER_03: And that happened at my last church where I wore something when I and someone was like, Well, hold on, like, if he can wear this brand shirt while he's preaching, and we pay and I was like, Do you want to do that?
17:12
SPEAKER_03: I don't need to pay tithe.
17:13
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no, you just didn't want to pay tithes to begin with.
17:16
SPEAKER_03: Because like, I have a few jobs outside of this that pay way more than for that reason.
17:23
SPEAKER_03: Churches don't pay no money unless you're anyway.
17:26
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, they just show up on you know a Sunday and get an hour of the experience and you know, just go to town sometimes with uh their thoughts.
17:36
SPEAKER_05: That was deep.
17:38
SPEAKER_05: What?
17:38
SPEAKER_05: That was deep.
17:39
SPEAKER_05: A little bit.
17:40
SPEAKER_03: I mean, the the bottom line, since we're talking about church, is that people will always find ever more inventive reasons to justify their perspective for whatever action that they had intended on doing to begin with.
17:54
SPEAKER_03: And so it's like, I don't want to pay tithes.
17:56
SPEAKER_03: So now let me find whatever validation for that.
17:59
SPEAKER_03: It's because the pastor drives this car or the worship guy wears this clothes or whatever it is that.
18:05
SPEAKER_03: But the bottom line is you don't want to pay tithes to begin with.
18:07
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
18:07
SPEAKER_03: Period.
18:08
SPEAKER_06: That's how the enemy works.
18:09
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you just want to validate it.
18:10
SPEAKER_03: That's all.
18:12
SPEAKER_05: Deep.
18:14
SPEAKER_05: Um, what else we got?
18:16
SPEAKER_05: Christine used to work in church.
18:17
SPEAKER_01: I never worked in a church.
18:20
SPEAKER_01: Why not?
18:23
SPEAKER_05: Have you been offered and declined?
18:25
SPEAKER_01: Yes, several times.
18:27
SPEAKER_05: I heard.
18:28
SPEAKER_05: What happened?
18:28
SPEAKER_05: I said no.
18:30
SPEAKER_05: They couldn't afford you, I heard.
18:32
SPEAKER_03: That was most of it.
18:34
SPEAKER_03: Ever do a teaser.
18:35
SPEAKER_03: It has to be that sound bite right there.
18:40
SPEAKER_03: Definitely.
18:41
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no.
18:42
SPEAKER_02: As soon as you said in my face, oh God.
18:46
SPEAKER_01: Look, no, yeah, I've been offered in in two uh two different areas and declined in both.
18:53
SPEAKER_01: Um But why not?
18:55
SPEAKER_05: But why not?
18:56
SPEAKER_05: Well, professionally speaking.
18:58
SPEAKER_05: It's such a great place.
18:59
SPEAKER_01: No, um, no, unfortunately, I have known enough people who work on church staffs to know that that is not the ideal spot for me for either position.
19:08
SPEAKER_01: One, the first one that it came up in was uh to do what I do professionally anyway, which is human resources.
19:14
SPEAKER_01: Um, there is a distinct difference between staff allocation and resource in a church and in a corporate environment.
19:22
SPEAKER_01: And spending the majority of my career in corporate environment, I don't believe I possess uh some skill sets needed to do that in a church environment.
19:33
SPEAKER_01: And I have sat with executives and administrators that work in churches and talked about staff allocation and right size um hiring and you know, some of the ones that really did that came out of corporate into church spaces.
19:46
SPEAKER_01: And they kind of validated my thought process that the way churches move about with their employees um is very different than corporate America.
19:55
SPEAKER_01: Um and what we do is a lot more cutthroat.
19:57
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
19:58
SPEAKER_01: And so I don't think I possess the skill set to do that in a manner in a church.
20:02
SPEAKER_01: Um, I think churches sometimes for the same reason they ask me about it.
20:07
SPEAKER_01: They like someone, it's someone that's um serving in the church in other areas and they want to put them in a position They're not necessarily qualified, they're not necessarily qualified for it, but they like the person.
20:17
SPEAKER_01: And so that's kind of I think where that offer came from.
20:21
SPEAKER_01: Um, but I knew enough about me to know that I'm not a good fit, and so I declined.
20:26
SPEAKER_01: Um, and then it's come up a couple of times in other other churches for um worship.
20:32
SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm not qualified for that either.
20:35
SPEAKER_05: Um I also is that you're brutally honest or what what makes you that you feel that you're not qualified?
20:41
SPEAKER_01: You mean HR or either?
20:44
SPEAKER_05: For church.
20:44
SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, I think my directness is would be a little hard to take.
20:50
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
20:50
SPEAKER_05: Um some people respect it though, because they don't want you to beat around the bush.
20:53
SPEAKER_05: Just tell me what I'm doing wrong so I can figure out.
20:55
SPEAKER_01: Some but not enough.
20:56
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
20:56
SPEAKER_01: Um, maybe some of it depends on the the the layers we're talking about.
21:00
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
21:01
SPEAKER_01: Um I've sat on committees in churches and had conversations about things going on in the church with business leaders that were sitting on those committees um and found that uh, especially in certain denominations, um, being female indirect isn't always a benefit.
21:16
SPEAKER_06: No, they don't want to necessarily hear from you.
21:17
SPEAKER_01: No.
21:18
SPEAKER_01: Um especially in the direct manner with which I speak as a peer.
21:23
SPEAKER_01: Um, I think they're used to women communicating in in uh a more softer, subtle tone, and that's not how I move because I'm your peer in this conversation.
21:34
SPEAKER_01: In this space, we're sitting on a committee because we're business leaders in various businesses.
21:39
SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm your peer.
21:40
SPEAKER_01: So I'm going to have to be in that position.
21:41
SPEAKER_01: Right.
21:41
SPEAKER_01: So I'm going to say it the same way that you would say it.
21:44
SPEAKER_01: Um so I just I I am a little too direct.
21:48
SPEAKER_01: Um, I think some of the changes that I see from the outside and partially inside, um, would be a major shift in how a church would move.
21:59
SPEAKER_01: Um And I don't know that a lot of senior leaders in churches could handle it.
22:05
SPEAKER_01: It depends on their knowledge and what their experience looks like.
22:09
SPEAKER_01: I've talked to enough pastors that go through seminary to find out that they don't get a lot of instruction in business.
22:15
SPEAKER_01: They don't get a lot of instruction in HR.
22:17
SPEAKER_01: They don't get a lot of instruction in finance, if at all.
22:19
SPEAKER_01: Oh wow.
22:20
SPEAKER_01: So they are dependent on hiring leaders that know what they're doing, but they don't know how to hold them accountable either.
22:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
22:26
SPEAKER_01: Um, some of that knowledge is gained through time.
22:29
SPEAKER_01: As a senior pastor, you, you know, step in it enough to figure out some things, but they don't really get um course study in a lot of those things.
22:38
SPEAKER_01: And so they're dependent on the staff they hire to know what they're doing.
22:42
SPEAKER_01: Um Corporate America doesn't necessarily work that way.
22:45
SPEAKER_01: But the further up you go, you really have to have some sort of outer knowledge or general understanding of what you're doing.
22:51
SPEAKER_01: And your core study, if you stay in that field, is pretty pretty extensive.
22:56
SPEAKER_01: So having some of those conversations about what I see and what I don't see a lot of times falls on deaf ears because they have no idea what I'm talking about.
23:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
23:05
SPEAKER_01: Um and then in a couple of cases where I have spoken with people, you know, who happen to be on a church staff that came out of corporate America, they know exactly what I'm talking about.
23:14
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, they see it.
23:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they see it.
23:16
SPEAKER_01: Um, unfortunately, they don't usually last either because again, they're making shifts and changes that sometimes can be hard for a church to do.
23:24
SPEAKER_01: They don't want to hurt feelings.
23:26
SPEAKER_01: They don't want to, okay, but you put someone in a role that they're actually not fit for because you liked them.
23:32
SPEAKER_01: We're not saying fire them.
23:34
SPEAKER_01: We're just saying maybe they should do something else.
23:37
SPEAKER_01: Or let's have the conversation about what they are doing versus what they should be doing and let's help move them into what they should be doing.
23:44
SPEAKER_01: You know, it's you know, processing procedures, having something documented, um you know, actually training your volunteers and being around when they have questions.
23:54
SPEAKER_01: Like it just, you know, things that are much more prevalent in corporate America that you just don't see in churches.
24:00
SPEAKER_01: And I am not in a space right now um in my career or period where I want to feel like I'm in a startup, where I'm having to create it from the ground up.
24:09
SPEAKER_01: And I feel like in a church environment, that's what you're doing.
24:12
SPEAKER_01: It's a startup situation.
24:14
SPEAKER_01: And I don't wanna if if you're not ready to completely turn the system on its head, then I'm not a good fit for you.
24:21
SPEAKER_01: Because I can already tell by looking at it, there's some things that would have to be completely inverted from the way they're being done right now.
24:28
SPEAKER_03: So you guys uh Reggie has There's There's another element that she's not going to tell you that that's where I come in.
24:37
SPEAKER_03: Um because uh Christine comes from that corporate background and has already discussed uh qualifications uh for a job, she has in her mind um like a set criteria for uh the type of person who should be in a worship position.
24:57
SPEAKER_03: And from her own assessment of herself, she just does not feel like she is qualified.
25:03
SPEAKER_03: And I get that.
25:04
SPEAKER_05: Um I think she's qualified.
25:06
SPEAKER_05: I do.
25:07
SPEAKER_03: No, I totally do.
25:07
SPEAKER_03: But here's here's the thing.
25:09
SPEAKER_03: Um, I get that because when you have a standard of excellence and you surround yourself with people of excellence, it gives you a more realistic perception of yourself.
25:20
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I'll say this a lot of people think I can play, but I grew up with the Buddy Strong's of the world, so like and the Ronnie Joneses of the world.
25:30
SPEAKER_03: So, yeah, you think I can play, but I know people who can play play.
25:34
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
25:35
SPEAKER_03: And so when you set yourself um up to a universal standard of excellence and not this hand picked or cherry-picked standard of excellence, that's where that conversation comes from.
25:46
SPEAKER_03: You just said it.
25:46
SPEAKER_03: Like I think she's qualified.
25:48
SPEAKER_03: Totally is.
25:49
SPEAKER_03: But she's been around some very, very, very talented people who are qualified for that position.
25:54
SPEAKER_03: And when you measure up to that standard, that's where that comes from.
25:57
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
25:58
SPEAKER_03: And I love that because um what it does is it makes you a realist, but it also puts you in this perpetual state of wanting to improve.
26:07
SPEAKER_03: Because if you are constantly chasing someone else who has arrived, then you will never have arrived yourself.
26:14
SPEAKER_06: Like we were talking earlier.
26:15
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, iron sharpened with iron.
26:16
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
26:17
SPEAKER_03: Right.
26:17
SPEAKER_03: You will never get to the point where I am all that because there's always someone else that you will aspire to.
26:22
SPEAKER_03: And as they're constantly improving, so are you.
26:25
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
26:26
SPEAKER_03: That's why you surround yourself with greatness.
26:28
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
26:28
SPEAKER_05: You don't want somebody to just blow smoke and be like, oh yeah, you're the greatest thing.
26:32
SPEAKER_03: Bingo.
26:33
SPEAKER_01: You're awesome.
26:33
SPEAKER_01: Right.
26:34
SPEAKER_01: What did you just say a minute ago?
26:35
SPEAKER_01: Some people want to hear the truth.
26:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
26:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
26:37
SPEAKER_05: Brutally honest.
26:38
SPEAKER_01: Same.
26:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
26:39
SPEAKER_01: I give it that way because that's the expectation.
26:41
SPEAKER_03: So bingo.
26:43
SPEAKER_03: Bingo.
26:44
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
26:45
SPEAKER_03: Accountability comes.
26:46
SPEAKER_03: And a lot of people don't get that.
26:48
SPEAKER_03: And the reason why we're so hard on other people, I'm sorry, let me change that.
26:52
SPEAKER_03: The reason why it's perceived that we're hard on other people is because that's the expectation within our own village, our own circles.
26:59
SPEAKER_05: That's how we were raised, yeah.
27:00
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
27:00
SPEAKER_03: Like I literally just preached that.
27:01
SPEAKER_03: Like, if you I know you just saw that.
27:04
SPEAKER_03: If you walk out the house and you don't tell me that I'm looking busted, I'm going to cuss you out.
27:10
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
27:11
SPEAKER_03: It's your responsibility to tell me what I don't see.
27:15
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
27:15
SPEAKER_03: And if you allow me to look at the paper.
27:17
SPEAKER_05: I have Walmart telling me I got toilet paper on my shoes.
27:19
SPEAKER_05: You can't.
27:21
SPEAKER_03: I literally use that example in my last sermon.
27:23
SPEAKER_03: I literally used that example.
27:25
SPEAKER_03: Yep.
27:25
SPEAKER_03: I did.
27:26
SPEAKER_03: I was like, I've walked around this restaurant three times.
27:29
SPEAKER_03: I've gone up to the buffet three times, and the waitress had to tell me that the toilet paper is stuck to my shoe, and you saw me leave the house like this.
27:36
SPEAKER_03: I'm cussing you out.
27:37
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, that's messed up.
27:38
SPEAKER_03: You're not my friend.
27:39
SPEAKER_05: You don't got my back.
27:40
SPEAKER_03: You don't.
27:40
SPEAKER_05: What were you looking at while I was walking out the door?
27:42
SPEAKER_03: Right.
27:43
SPEAKER_03: And so because of that.
27:45
SPEAKER_05: My Coca-Cola shirt.
27:47
SPEAKER_03: He looks camo.
27:48
SPEAKER_03: That's really cool.
27:49
SPEAKER_05: You are so distracted.
27:50
SPEAKER_03: Right.
27:51
SPEAKER_03: Both of us have not paid attention to this at all because that's the truth.
27:57
SPEAKER_03: Like when you surround yourself, and this is one of the reasons why Christine and I are so close, because we have found a way to hold each other accountable in a way that's not perceived, offensive, which gives us green light to approach each other in a manner that's unfiltered.
28:11
SPEAKER_03: When you have those sensitive people that like you want to tell them the truth, but you're always concerned about how they're going to uh perceive it, eventually it's just gonna make you not want to tell them.
28:22
SPEAKER_03: No, yeah.
28:22
SPEAKER_03: Or you have to find this really strategic way to bring it to their attention.
28:26
SPEAKER_03: The reason why I love Christine so much is because for both of us, we can call each other and say, this is what it is.
28:33
SPEAKER_03: But we know from the time the phone gets answered, like whatever proceeds out of my mouth, it's not intended to be uh offensive.
28:40
SPEAKER_03: And I know you're not gonna take it that way.
28:41
SPEAKER_03: I'm telling you what I tell you because I love you.
28:44
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
28:44
SPEAKER_03: Period.
28:45
SPEAKER_03: And for that reason, I've known you for seven, eight, nine, how many years?
28:51
SPEAKER_03: It's been long.
28:51
SPEAKER_03: Nine, nine years.
28:52
SPEAKER_03: And there's not been one contentious iota of a conversation.
28:58
SPEAKER_03: We have cussed to each other by other people several times.
29:03
SPEAKER_03: But I've never once had like one like molecular contentious conversation with Christine for that reason.
29:11
SPEAKER_05: That's sweet.
29:12
SPEAKER_03: You surround yourself with people that you trust to uphold you.
29:16
SPEAKER_03: Like you said, iron sharpened iron.
29:18
SPEAKER_03: But see, the thing is, in order for iron to sharpen iron, iron has to recognize the other iron and sharpen it.
29:24
SPEAKER_05: Dang, you're right.
29:26
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
29:26
SPEAKER_03: And if I don't recognize you as being iron, then you're dead in the water.
29:31
SPEAKER_03: You can say that, but you can't.
29:33
SPEAKER_01: Right.
29:33
SPEAKER_01: Right.
29:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
29:34
SPEAKER_05: You gotta be the iron.
29:35
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
29:36
SPEAKER_01: Right.
29:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you have to recognize it.
29:37
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
29:38
SPEAKER_01: That that person's the iron or recognize iron at all.
29:41
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I feel I run into people who just aren't self-aware enough that they would see iron whether it was theirs or not.
29:46
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it's it's yeah, it's being aware of who you're talking to and knowing the the intention of where it's coming from.
29:55
SPEAKER_03: Bingo.
29:56
SPEAKER_01: And that that and that can be hard.
29:58
SPEAKER_01: It is.
29:58
SPEAKER_01: If you're talking to people and you you have an honest conversation and they're not clear of your intention, that should tell you about the depth of the relationship in the first place.
30:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
30:06
SPEAKER_01: Either it wasn't there and you jump the gun, or this is someone that can't handle it.
30:10
SPEAKER_01: So you may need to take a step back and look at that.
30:13
SPEAKER_03: And your actions are always going to speak volumes.
30:16
SPEAKER_03: I'll give you two very quick examples of why our relationship is so solid.
30:20
SPEAKER_03: Because through all of the smoke blowing that you talked about earlier, the actions persist like this.
30:26
SPEAKER_03: Uh, when I got that opportunity at the last church, one of the first phone calls I made for help was to Christine.
30:32
SPEAKER_03: And I know in the back of her mind, it's like, why is he calling me?
30:35
SPEAKER_03: She's gotten calls from me too.
30:36
SPEAKER_01: It was the front of the mind, but yeah.
30:39
SPEAKER_03: It's like, why?
30:40
SPEAKER_03: And so it was like, I recognize your ability.
30:43
SPEAKER_03: And so this is me doing that and not saying it.
30:48
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
30:48
SPEAKER_03: And so later on, um, throughout some other tumultuous parts of uh of our life separate of each other, um, I've never told you this, Christine.
30:58
SPEAKER_03: I've never told you this.
31:00
SPEAKER_03: This is it, this might actually make you emotional.
31:04
SPEAKER_03: Um I was going through a very, very tumultuous time in my own life.
31:08
SPEAKER_03: And then we we did a separate podcast um with Rob Miller, yeah, and we went through it.
31:13
SPEAKER_03: And one thing I know and love about Christine is like if I'm doing something, it's gonna be 48 hours before she supports it, whether I put it out there or not.
31:21
SPEAKER_03: Period.
31:21
SPEAKER_03: I know that.
31:22
SPEAKER_03: And so um she reached out to me after she watched the podcast and she said something, it was very subliminal, but she was like, This is the first time like I saw the human side of you, like I saw you emotionally struggling.
31:37
SPEAKER_03: And the way she put it was almost like, I'm in awe of your talent.
31:42
SPEAKER_03: We don't say it very often because we always we do that by action.
31:46
SPEAKER_03: I'm in awe of her talent by utilizing her, yeah, by working with her all the time, yeah.
31:50
SPEAKER_03: Like, and she knows I don't work with just anybody.
31:52
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so I'm in awe of your talent by pushing you forward and utilizing you.
31:57
SPEAKER_03: And she basically said it without saying, I'm in awe of your talent, but I saw the human side of you, and now I see my brother, not the the worship pastor, not the musician, not the guy that I recognize is very talented.
32:08
SPEAKER_03: My brother is suffering, and that hurt me.
32:10
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it did hurt me.
32:12
SPEAKER_01: I actually cried during that podcast because it did hurt me.
32:15
SPEAKER_05: She saw another layer that she's never seen.
32:18
SPEAKER_01: I mean, he's so together all the time.
32:21
SPEAKER_01: All the time.
32:22
SPEAKER_05: And professional.
32:23
SPEAKER_01: And you know, hey, I got it.
32:24
SPEAKER_01: You know, and even in his own suffering can offer you what you need at the moment.
32:29
SPEAKER_01: That to see him take a moment and say, you know what, no, this actually did hurt.
32:34
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
32:34
SPEAKER_01: Don't, don't, don't misunderstand this conversation.
32:37
SPEAKER_01: Yes, I have processed and moved beyond it in in some areas, but that doesn't mean it didn't hurt.
32:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
32:43
SPEAKER_01: But I don't know that I'd ever heard him say out loud that it had hurt.
32:47
SPEAKER_01: And not only to say it out loud in front of people, but on a podcast with video.
32:54
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, cameras.
32:55
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
32:55
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, there's cameras.
32:56
SPEAKER_01: So you're saying it, people can see all the expressions and feel the emotion through.
33:01
SPEAKER_01: You can hear it vocally, but you could see him.
33:03
SPEAKER_01: Like he chose to, in front of a camera and a microphone, say, This actually hurt.
33:08
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, share that scar.
33:09
SPEAKER_01: And I've never seen him do that.
33:11
SPEAKER_01: And it was a and that's a pretty scary space to do that.
33:14
SPEAKER_01: And I don't know that I could have done that with a camera in my face.
33:16
SPEAKER_01: No.
33:17
SPEAKER_01: Um you know I say that, but a couple of times I have gotten emotional with a camera in my face in the last two years.
33:22
SPEAKER_01: Never mind.
33:23
SPEAKER_01: Um, those those were worship spaces, that's a different time.
33:25
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, no, I do.
33:26
SPEAKER_01: Different kind of emotion.
33:27
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
33:28
SPEAKER_01: But I remember saying that because I sat back, I I was sitting on the couch watching it, and I remember sitting back going, Whoa, like he just gave us vulnerability.
33:39
SPEAKER_06: That's amazing.
33:40
SPEAKER_01: And a mic on camera for anybody and their mother to see.
33:44
SPEAKER_01: Like this was a vulnerable space.
33:45
SPEAKER_01: And if I've known you for almost 10 years and I've never seen that, yeah, you don't do it often.
33:50
SPEAKER_01: And you chose to instead of holding it back in a space where there's a camera in your face, to be honest and say, look, I know what my resume sounded like when Rob introed me and this, that, and the third, and we've talked about this and my experience and who I've played with, but this still hurts.
34:06
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
34:07
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, that was huge for me.
34:09
SPEAKER_01: I cried at the time.
34:10
SPEAKER_01: So when I text, I'm like, Whoa, because you it it caught me off guard.
34:15
SPEAKER_01: I expected the Reg J always thing.
34:18
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, the tough brother, yeah.
34:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I got I I got it.
34:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was it was a little messed up, but you know.
34:22
SPEAKER_05: But to be vulnerable in that moment and to share it.
34:26
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
34:26
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
34:26
SPEAKER_03: And when she texted me, I cried.
34:29
SPEAKER_03: Wow.
34:30
SPEAKER_03: I did.
34:30
SPEAKER_03: I'm getting ready to cry now.
34:32
SPEAKER_03: Like I I cried.
34:33
SPEAKER_03: Um because Christine and I have a uh a very, very healthy relationship.
34:40
SPEAKER_03: I I I I DM'd Charles, I think, a month ago, and I thanked him for um for not being that guy.
34:49
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, I know what you mean.
34:51
SPEAKER_03: Get you get it?
34:51
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
34:52
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
34:52
SPEAKER_05: Being jealous and being like, right, right, right.
34:54
SPEAKER_05: Why are you talking to my wife so much?
34:55
SPEAKER_05: Right, right, right.
34:56
SPEAKER_03: No, I get it.
34:57
SPEAKER_03: And on the surface, uh insecure people would have that type of issue.
35:01
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, like what are you doing?
35:03
SPEAKER_03: Right.
35:03
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
35:03
SPEAKER_03: Right.
35:04
SPEAKER_03: And um it's so funny because we have our own conversations and then we have a group.
35:09
SPEAKER_01: We have a group chat with all three of us in it.
35:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
35:11
SPEAKER_03: Equally unhealthy.
35:13
SPEAKER_03: Unhealthy.
35:15
SPEAKER_03: That should never see the light of day.
35:17
SPEAKER_03: Wow.
35:17
SPEAKER_07: No, it shouldn't.
35:19
SPEAKER_03: Right.
35:20
SPEAKER_03: If that ever gets happy.
35:21
SPEAKER_01: And it's the beauty of the person I married.
35:23
SPEAKER_01: And honestly, it it we had to get through, we had to go through that early in our relationship, too, because a lot of his friends were women.
35:32
SPEAKER_01: Um, that's why it doesn't bother him.
35:34
SPEAKER_01: Because he understands, you know, it's a mutual thing.
35:38
SPEAKER_01: It's a mutual thing.
35:38
SPEAKER_01: Like it's not, most of my friends have always been men.
35:42
SPEAKER_01: Um, because I'm a little too direct, not girly enough for a lot of the girls.
35:48
SPEAKER_03: Um I'm surprised at that because as honest as you are, I'm surprised that a lot of men probably haven't stepped back from you either.
35:56
SPEAKER_03: Because a lot of guys, like, yeah, I can't handle her.
35:58
SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah.
36:00
SPEAKER_01: There have been a couple of those, but there have been more women who made that statement than men.
36:04
SPEAKER_01: I get it.
36:04
SPEAKER_01: Um, outwardly.
36:05
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, outwardly.
36:06
SPEAKER_01: Okay, fair enough.
36:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they didn't want to admit they couldn't do it.
36:08
SPEAKER_01: They just stuck around and got cut, which I could see it on their face, but you know, your choice, not mine.
36:13
SPEAKER_03: Um totally get free.
36:15
SPEAKER_01: Like going to Christ's free will.
36:16
SPEAKER_01: You can always walk away.
36:18
SPEAKER_01: Anyway.
36:20
SPEAKER_03: But yeah, I mean, that that's it in itself.
36:22
SPEAKER_03: Uh, yeah, when she reached out, um, I did.
36:26
SPEAKER_03: I got emotional, I cried because most of our conversations are like this.
36:31
SPEAKER_03: They are intertwined with comedic moments, um, ministry moments.
36:35
SPEAKER_03: There's um there's a lot of insight, there's a lot of laughter, a lot of reminiscing too.
36:40
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
36:40
SPEAKER_03: Um, and and so in that moment, uh, it was the first time that I looked at my sister.
36:49
SPEAKER_03: I hate to use this word, but just so you guys can understand, I looked at my sister as a fan.
36:57
SPEAKER_05: Like a supporter, yeah.
36:58
SPEAKER_05: Yes.
36:59
SPEAKER_03: And I don't want to use supporter, I'm using fan uh uh for a specific reason.
37:02
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
37:02
SPEAKER_01: Okay, I'm intrigued.
37:03
SPEAKER_01: Why are you using that word?
37:05
SPEAKER_01: He'll get to it.
37:06
SPEAKER_03: Um because when you look at support, support can many times can be construed as obligatory.
37:17
SPEAKER_03: Ooh.
37:18
SPEAKER_03: Family, church, you know, you expect support from uh surrounding you.
37:24
SPEAKER_03: The reason why I'm choosing to use the word fan is because of that word.
37:28
SPEAKER_03: You don't have to.
37:29
SPEAKER_03: Right.
37:30
SPEAKER_03: Like that was the first time that I looked at my sister as someone who saw the talent in me by choice and not by proximity, if that makes sense.
37:43
SPEAKER_03: It's like this is someone who actually really, really, really looks up to me from a musical perspective.
37:50
SPEAKER_03: I've always considered us to be somewhat mutual.
37:53
SPEAKER_03: And here's why.
37:54
SPEAKER_03: Uh, not to get super deep.
37:56
SPEAKER_03: And she chuckled, and I'm so glad she had that visceral reaction while we're talking.
38:00
SPEAKER_03: Here's why.
38:00
SPEAKER_03: Because you're so naughty.
38:02
SPEAKER_03: Right.
38:03
SPEAKER_03: Sometimes I can expect the response from her.
38:06
SPEAKER_03: This is gonna be the best episode ever.
38:08
SPEAKER_03: Um, because one of the reasons why we are as tight as we are uh on the foundation is because when we got really cool at the church we worked at was because I'm a musician, I'm also a vocalist, and the beginning of our conversations came from the perspective of I understand the disparity from the vocalist side of ministry, how they don't get paid.
38:32
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
38:33
SPEAKER_03: You just mentioned it earlier, how the standard for dress and everything else and the work put in, it is not the same.
38:40
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
38:41
SPEAKER_03: And so typically you can't go to a musician with those types of observations, pseudo-complaints, and expect them to be like, I get it.
38:51
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
38:52
SPEAKER_03: Because they don't get it because they're not.
38:53
SPEAKER_03: Right.
38:53
SPEAKER_03: Because the musicians they benefit from that.
38:55
SPEAKER_03: Right.
38:55
SPEAKER_03: They benefit from the disparity.
38:57
SPEAKER_03: Right.
38:57
SPEAKER_03: But she came to me and was like, oh no, I totally get it.
39:00
SPEAKER_03: Because I'm a vocalist too.
39:02
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
39:02
SPEAKER_06: So you share that ground.
39:04
SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
39:04
SPEAKER_03: And I see the disparity.
39:06
SPEAKER_03: Just like when Rob and I were talking about the whole musician versus pastor thing.
39:09
SPEAKER_03: He was like, man, you in a tricky spot because you're a pastor and a musician.
39:12
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
39:13
SPEAKER_03: And you're siding with the musicians, but you're part of the clergy.
39:15
SPEAKER_03: He called me the suits.
39:16
SPEAKER_03: He's like, You're part of the clergy that has contributed to this.
39:18
SPEAKER_03: I'm like, yes, I identify because I understand the community.
39:22
SPEAKER_03: I'm a part of the community.
39:23
SPEAKER_03: I understand the disparity with the vocalists, because I'm a part of the musicians who get paid when the vocalists don't.
39:27
SPEAKER_05: Right.
39:28
SPEAKER_05: Well, that's also part of coming up and not just starting in a position where if you worked all those places coming up, you respect those positions.
39:36
SPEAKER_05: But if you just walked in and all of a sudden you're the senior pastor and you don't even know how the doors get unlocked and you don't know how the lights get turned on.
39:43
SPEAKER_05: You don't know anything.
39:45
SPEAKER_05: I'm not mentioning anybody's names.
39:47
SPEAKER_05: I mean, but uh certainly there's some people out there.
39:49
SPEAKER_03: I was about to say we can feel it in your eyes.
39:51
SPEAKER_03: Right.
39:51
SPEAKER_03: No, the dynamic itself is dangerous.
39:53
SPEAKER_03: I love it.
39:54
SPEAKER_03: I'll speak it.
39:55
SPEAKER_03: You know me.
39:56
SPEAKER_03: But that's it.
39:56
SPEAKER_03: And that that's because, and you know my story.
39:58
SPEAKER_03: I started out as a vocalist who turned into a musician.
40:02
SPEAKER_03: I played out of habit and out of hobby.
40:07
SPEAKER_03: I was never intending for the musicianship side to take off.
40:12
SPEAKER_03: I was always just a singer.
40:13
SPEAKER_03: Yeah somewhere along the line, that that flipped and it became more of the dominant side of like my musical culture.
40:22
SPEAKER_03: But because of it, I totally understood where it was coming from.
40:25
SPEAKER_03: And that's the foundation of how and why we got close.
40:28
SPEAKER_03: Because we were able to put the stigmas aside and just talk and agree about the toxicity.
40:35
SPEAKER_01: Right.
40:35
SPEAKER_01: Because there is an invisible wall between singers and musicians that exists.
40:40
SPEAKER_01: And there were some conversations about that, you know, previously.
40:44
SPEAKER_01: Um I even found some singers that were defending musicians.
40:49
SPEAKER_01: Well, I mean, you know, they have to, you know, pay for their equipment.
40:52
SPEAKER_01: And yeah, your equipment's in your body.
40:55
SPEAKER_01: A musician can pay and get can play and get paid even when they don't feel well.
40:59
SPEAKER_05: If they break a string, they can go and buy a$2 string.
41:03
SPEAKER_05: If they have a headache or you're done.
41:04
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
41:05
SPEAKER_01: If you have a headache or you don't feel great, you can still go thug it out and go home.
41:09
SPEAKER_03: She's so right.
41:09
SPEAKER_03: Because I've played with a migraine.
41:11
SPEAKER_03: I have not sung with one.
41:12
SPEAKER_01: Right.
41:12
SPEAKER_01: You can't do that.
41:13
SPEAKER_01: Your instrument is your body.
41:15
SPEAKER_01: And it also requires sacrifice that musicians don't have to make because it's in your body.
41:23
SPEAKER_01: We talk about and grumble about as singers, especially if you sing in a church on a Sunday morning.
41:27
SPEAKER_01: Saturday night, you can't be in some game yelling, you're gonna have a voice tomorrow.
41:31
SPEAKER_05: No, you gotta save your voice.
41:32
SPEAKER_05: Right.
41:32
SPEAKER_05: Even for the podcast, I've noticed that there's certain things I have to say by voice.
41:35
SPEAKER_05: Otherwise, the next day it's like I'm I'm blown and I say.
41:38
SPEAKER_01: Exactly, because it's in your body.
41:40
SPEAKER_01: So you have to take care of the full self just to do any of this, to volunteer or whatever.
41:46
SPEAKER_01: And so there's sacrifices that we make that musicians don't have to make just to do this and not get paid for any of that work or talent that's associated with that.
41:56
SPEAKER_01: She's absolutely right.
41:56
SPEAKER_01: I feel like churches feel like vocalists are a dime a dozen.
41:59
SPEAKER_01: You can find them anywhere.
42:00
SPEAKER_01: Well, if you could, and this is gonna sound awful, but if you could find really good vocalists at a dime a dozen, I wouldn't be able to jump around churches right now.
42:11
SPEAKER_03: For those who are listening, because there's no cameras, the mic has just dropped.
42:16
SPEAKER_03: She's absolutely right.
42:18
SPEAKER_03: The preparation that goes into any type of musical production, uh, whether it's church, whether it's secular, um everyone has to learn the material.
42:28
SPEAKER_03: But the day of the preparation to execute is way different for vocalists.
42:34
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
42:35
SPEAKER_03: I can play scales to get my dexterity up if I choose to.
42:39
SPEAKER_03: But I promise you, I promise you, 98% of musicians sit down and play.
42:45
SPEAKER_03: Period.
42:46
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
42:46
SPEAKER_03: You might find one who will stretch a drummer who stretches his forearms.
42:49
SPEAKER_03: He's probably over 40 and has carpal tunnel.
42:52
SPEAKER_03: Um that's messed up.
42:53
SPEAKER_03: It's the truth.
42:56
SPEAKER_03: Pick up the phone right now and call 10 musicians and ask them what they do before they walk in to play.
43:02
SPEAKER_03: And I promise you, all 10 of them will be like, what do you mean?
43:04
SPEAKER_03: I lock the I lock my car door.
43:06
SPEAKER_03: Right.
43:06
SPEAKER_01: No.
43:07
SPEAKER_01: We're up early and vocal steaming and warmups in the shower.
43:10
SPEAKER_01: Singing on the way in the car.
43:12
SPEAKER_01: Singing on the way in the car to make sure you have your parts right in cough drops and this and throat coats.
43:18
SPEAKER_05: Yep.
43:19
SPEAKER_05: Throat coat only do that.
43:20
SPEAKER_01: Throat coat if you are you only do throat coat in emergency situations.
43:23
SPEAKER_01: Um, you only ever saw me do throat coat in December, and that was after I'd had two other concerts, two other churches, and I'm ro rolling in North Phoenix, the middle of December, and I don't know my first name.
43:32
SPEAKER_01: That's usually when throat coat came up.
43:34
SPEAKER_01: But vocal steaming and warming up will help that in the most important.
43:37
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, but that, yeah, but that requires getting up earlier and being aware and waking that up because a lot of times you hit a church at 6 30, 7 o'clock in the morning to sing.
43:49
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
43:49
SPEAKER_01: And so you can't just do that cold.
43:51
SPEAKER_01: There's there's prep work to do that.
43:53
SPEAKER_01: And musicians get the option of having their music right in front of them, but we don't.
43:58
SPEAKER_01: You get some words on the screen.
44:00
SPEAKER_01: Back there.
44:00
SPEAKER_01: You better know your notes though.
44:02
SPEAKER_05: Hopefully somebody's pushing the buttons on time.
44:04
SPEAKER_01: Right, hope with pushing the buttons on time.
44:05
SPEAKER_01: You better memorize it a little bit because that could, you know, go sour on you.
44:09
SPEAKER_01: She's right.
44:09
SPEAKER_01: And you don't, and you better know your notes because there's there's nothing there.
44:13
SPEAKER_03: Although music, scales, numbers.
44:15
SPEAKER_01: I I I hate to say a lot of singers read music anyway now, so it doesn't matter.
44:19
SPEAKER_01: But if you had something to give you a guide, that would be great.
44:23
SPEAKER_01: But you don't have any of that.
44:24
SPEAKER_01: You're just you're just out there.
44:26
SPEAKER_01: Your outfit better be right.
44:28
SPEAKER_01: Yo, your hair better be right.
44:30
SPEAKER_05: You better know your notes.
44:31
SPEAKER_05: Well, I've also seen where it's like the the musicians on the weekend, they know that no matter what the songs are gonna be played, it's gonna be these three, these four, whatever songs are gonna be played, that's gonna be.
44:42
SPEAKER_05: Majority of the time, unless something drastic changes, that's gonna be.
44:46
SPEAKER_05: The singers, they they they work up to those parts, but then when they get there, if so-and-so on soprano or so-and-so on tenor didn't show up, now they have to sub, now they have to practice and sing and manage other areas.
45:00
SPEAKER_05: That works like if the drummer didn't show up, you're just gonna get a new drummer.
45:03
SPEAKER_05: The whole entire band didn't have to suffer and work extra because of that guy.
45:07
SPEAKER_05: Or you could throw it back in tracks.
45:08
SPEAKER_05: Where the singers, yeah, the singers have a whole different type of area where even if they can practice Friday, Saturday and show up Sunday, Sunday, the whole ball game might change.
45:18
SPEAKER_05: They're gonna be a good one.
45:19
SPEAKER_05: And it has.
45:20
SPEAKER_01: And the the the struggle I see and some and some experiences I've had lately, I feel like a lot of times worship pastors don't set us up for success in spaces like that.
45:28
SPEAKER_01: I know what they want us to do.
45:33
SPEAKER_05: It was literally the red sea.
45:36
SPEAKER_05: Sorry.
45:36
SPEAKER_01: If you saw his outfit, that would be really funny.
45:39
SPEAKER_01: Okay, anyway, moving right along.
45:42
SPEAKER_03: Here's another point though.
45:44
SPEAKER_03: Because I will argue, you know, if a musician is well, if certain instruments are missing, it will change the complexity.
45:50
SPEAKER_01: Keys.
45:50
SPEAKER_03: I play keys.
45:51
SPEAKER_03: If I'm gone, yeah, that's messed up.
45:54
SPEAKER_03: We got issues.
45:54
SPEAKER_01: We need track, we need we need heavy track, and they better have keys in the track.
45:59
SPEAKER_01: Because that's the only that's the only instrument that's really playing in any continuity, and usually what singers use as their cues to come in.
46:07
SPEAKER_01: For timing.
46:08
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for timing and spontaneity, drums and keys.
46:10
SPEAKER_03: Spontaneity, you know, those those places aren't tracked.
46:13
SPEAKER_01: It's not every instrument is is very true.
46:17
SPEAKER_03: Um, but even having an MD, like MDs don't give.
46:21
SPEAKER_03: I'm an exception.
46:22
SPEAKER_03: I know this is gonna sound arrogant, it is what it is.
46:24
SPEAKER_03: Um, because I'm a singer, and she knows this because we work together at multiple churches, as an MD, I will definitely give some cues to singers quite a bit when it comes to my MDing, but a lot of times.
46:38
SPEAKER_03: Off the record.
46:39
SPEAKER_05: Or on the record, you are one of the best MDs I've ever seen.
46:43
SPEAKER_03: Bless you.
46:44
SPEAKER_03: That comes from the multiple background.
46:46
SPEAKER_03: Um, I know she's gonna tell the Werby Parker commercial story one day.
46:50
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
46:51
SPEAKER_03: Um, yeah, yeah.
46:52
SPEAKER_03: You're we're talking about this.
46:54
SPEAKER_05: But we were talking about this.
46:55
SPEAKER_03: When it comes to here, I'll give you this other story and instead.
46:58
SPEAKER_03: Uh, and this comes from that place.
47:00
SPEAKER_03: We'll go back to that though.
47:01
SPEAKER_03: Right, I know.
47:02
SPEAKER_03: Um, the multi-tax.
47:03
SPEAKER_03: Most MDs, 90, 100% of their cues are all instrumentation.
47:08
SPEAKER_03: Go to the four.
47:10
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
47:10
SPEAKER_03: Build.
47:11
SPEAKER_03: It's always they're talking to the band.
47:13
SPEAKER_03: And so even then, I once I played a whole concert for very prominent artists having never heard his catalog at all.
47:25
SPEAKER_03: No way.
47:26
SPEAKER_03: Leland.
47:27
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
47:28
SPEAKER_03: The first time I played for him was because Dante Bo was supposed to be here at ASU.
47:32
SPEAKER_03: Not gonna get into why he wasn't here.
47:34
SPEAKER_03: Doesn't matter.
47:35
SPEAKER_03: They brought in Leland the same day.
47:38
SPEAKER_03: I was flying in from Austin, got a phone call.
47:41
SPEAKER_03: The only reason I took that gig was because I was at Sky Harbor, and it was like, all right, go to ASU, which is 10 minutes away, or sit on 10 for an hour to get home.
47:50
SPEAKER_03: I was like, okay, well, fine, I'll just go to ASU.
47:52
SPEAKER_03: And I didn't know his catalog at all.
47:56
SPEAKER_03: So there was an MD, and he was like, Don't worry about it, Reg, I'll give you the numbers.
48:01
SPEAKER_03: And we played a whole concert for songs that I did not know.
48:07
SPEAKER_03: Songs I had never heard before.
48:09
SPEAKER_03: Some songs I was playing for the first time.
48:12
SPEAKER_05: How is how's that happened?
48:13
SPEAKER_03: Because you can do that with musicians when you say go to the four.
48:17
SPEAKER_03: You cannot do that with vocalists.
48:19
SPEAKER_03: You're right.
48:20
SPEAKER_03: Even if they have lyrics and they have uh the back wall that's a big thing.
48:24
SPEAKER_03: There's not that technology for that.
48:26
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you can't say sing these notes, sing this melody.
48:30
SPEAKER_03: You can't do that.
48:31
SPEAKER_03: No.
48:31
SPEAKER_03: I can play a whole concert having never heard the song before.
48:34
SPEAKER_03: I've done it before.
48:35
SPEAKER_03: You're gonna do it this week.
48:36
SPEAKER_05: That's amazing.
48:37
SPEAKER_05: That is really amazing.
48:38
SPEAKER_05: So I got you can't do that with vocalists.
48:40
SPEAKER_05: So I got a piano joke for you.
48:41
SPEAKER_05: You want to hear it?
48:42
unknown: Oh boy.
48:43
SPEAKER_05: Sure.
48:44
SPEAKER_05: So I used to, you know me, I used to play the piano by ear.
48:48
SPEAKER_05: Now I just use my hands.
48:54
SPEAKER_03: I used to play for a Spanish church.
48:56
SPEAKER_03: I played in C.
49:00
SPEAKER_01: I got you.
49:02
SPEAKER_01: See?
49:03
SPEAKER_01: When dad jokes are on a podcast.
49:05
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
49:07
unknown: Wow.
49:08
SPEAKER_05: That's all I got.
49:09
SPEAKER_05: So church is great.
49:10
SPEAKER_05: I don't want anybody to think that we're just here at a bad mouth church.
49:12
SPEAKER_05: Church is great.
49:13
SPEAKER_01: No, we're not.
49:15
SPEAKER_01: Um, no, that I mean part of this is about, you know, some of the hurts this that are associated.
49:22
SPEAKER_01: And so that's what we're discussing.
49:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
49:25
SPEAKER_01: Right.
49:26
SPEAKER_01: And that's and that's, you know, part of some of the things that that that hurt.
49:30
SPEAKER_01: Um is just some of those things that are involved in the in the process and the industry itself that just make it sometimes frustrating.
49:42
SPEAKER_01: And like I said, I've seen some podcasts and discussions with musicians about, you know, some of the things they go through and the experiences they've had in churches where they are they are treated like, you know, gig musicians and not invested in or bought into or you know, taken care of in that sense.
49:58
SPEAKER_01: And I feel like um they think singers are more, and maybe in some ways we are invested more into, but I feel like the motivation is wrong for us.
50:08
SPEAKER_01: They they invest in us because they want a certain look from us.
50:12
SPEAKER_01: I don't know how um concerned they are about our real relationship with Christ.
50:20
SPEAKER_01: There are some churches that are starting to push more towards that, but then again, when they do have those conversations in in a music standpoint, they're really only coming at the vocalists, right?
50:30
SPEAKER_01: They're not really just saw an email uh a couple weeks ago from a church saying um we really want the singers to be members, we're strongly encouraging the musicians.
50:42
SPEAKER_01: What?
50:42
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, what?
50:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, why are they encouraged, but we're required?
50:47
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, why is there different politics for different people?
50:50
SPEAKER_01: Right.
50:50
SPEAKER_01: So you look at that from the outside and you might think, okay, well, you know, they they're clearly more invested in the singers than yeah, but why would that be a requirement only for singers?
50:58
SPEAKER_01: And if it if we're really concerned about people's souls for Christ, why don't we do that?
51:02
SPEAKER_05: Why do we care about all the people's?
51:03
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
51:04
SPEAKER_01: So clearly, just in the verbiage itself, there's something weird about it.
51:07
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
51:08
SPEAKER_01: Um that can sometimes create, you know, a weird wall that I don't I don't know that churches pay enough attention to.
51:15
SPEAKER_01: And I see enough reels out there with worship pastors and worship people talking about, you know, their core foundation and understanding of what they want worship teams to look like, and it's about this and about that.
51:25
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, that all sounds great.
51:27
SPEAKER_01: You're telling me what I need to do and what I need to give up and where my ego needs to be to be a part of this team.
51:34
SPEAKER_01: But what are you doing?
51:35
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
51:35
SPEAKER_01: You're telling me I need to, you're telling me it's okay for you to send me a change in music on a Saturday afternoon at four o'clock for a Sunday rehearsal.
51:44
SPEAKER_01: But if I say something, I'm the one with the wrong attitude.
51:47
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
51:47
SPEAKER_01: You're setting me up for failure.
51:49
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
51:50
SPEAKER_01: And if you want the level of musicianship from your vocalists, yeah, that they can pivot like that.
51:56
SPEAKER_01: I'm not arguing the expectation, but are you auditioning and getting singers of that caliber that can do that?
52:03
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
52:04
SPEAKER_01: And most of the time the answer is no.
52:06
SPEAKER_01: So you have an expectation that people can't make.
52:08
SPEAKER_01: And then you wonder why people will sing for a little bit and then they quit and you got to find more.
52:14
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
52:14
SPEAKER_05: The turnover is so big there, nobody knows why.
52:17
SPEAKER_05: But you're having an attrition problem.
52:20
SPEAKER_05: You're having an attrition problem.
52:21
SPEAKER_05: Can the NDA allow you to tell you?
52:24
SPEAKER_05: Because uh last I checked, Jesus never had any of the disciples sign an NDA.
52:30
SPEAKER_05: And if we're supposed to be like Jesus, then why can't we share what's going on and have some real accountability?
52:36
SPEAKER_05: Oh my goodness.
52:37
SPEAKER_05: Wow.
52:37
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
52:38
SPEAKER_05: Sorry, I've been sitting on that.
52:39
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
52:39
SPEAKER_01: Yes, we could tell.
52:40
SPEAKER_05: Wow.
52:41
SPEAKER_05: And then uh Reg and I, Christine, you weren't here for this, but Reg and I were talking earlier about how churches invest in things very strangely, we've noticed recently.
52:50
SPEAKER_05: Um, they get you the free donuts, the free coffee, all of this stuff, they get you in the in the door.
52:56
SPEAKER_05: They they want you to hurry up and and do this and hurry up and do that, join our membership and and hurry up and get baptized.
53:02
SPEAKER_05: And once you do that and and start sitting in that seat for a couple of weeks, you need any type of real help, you get ghosted.
53:09
SPEAKER_05: Unless you're on the real leadership ship team or you know somebody or so on, nobody really helps you.
53:16
SPEAKER_05: You're just another member in their notch and they're off to the to the next one.
53:20
SPEAKER_05: And they're trying to get more and more and more people in the door.
53:23
SPEAKER_05: And if they lose a couple in between, that's okay because you know they got new faces next week.
53:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, 80-20.
53:29
SPEAKER_05: So we were talking earlier about how churches really should just invest in what they got instead of always trying to get the whole community there.
53:37
SPEAKER_05: And then when the whole community there is there and you know wants to leave, they want to find new faces.
53:42
SPEAKER_05: It's like, well, you just had you just had everybody in the state through your door and you didn't treat them right.
53:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I struggle with I grew up in a very small church in the South.
53:57
SPEAKER_01: Um and while there are benefits to that, there are things I didn't like about it, i.e., everybody opened your business.
54:03
SPEAKER_01: Um but I feel like the polar opposite is the mega church design.
54:09
SPEAKER_01: Um and when you are a little too concerned about how many butts you have in seats and not what you're giving the hearts in those seats, is where you you run into a problem.
54:20
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
54:20
SPEAKER_01: Um churches get too big.
54:23
SPEAKER_01: Um and a lot of it's a staff allocation problem.
54:27
SPEAKER_01: People don't want to work for churches.
54:28
SPEAKER_01: What did we just talk about in here at the beginning of this podcast?
54:32
SPEAKER_01: It's not the ideal place to go because people know they don't pay well.
54:36
SPEAKER_05: Um when you go to a business, you know that the janitor is getting paid, the CEO's getting paid, and everybody in between is getting paid.
54:43
SPEAKER_05: When you go to a church, the janitor might be getting paid, the CEOs are definitely getting paid, and you don't know which department qualifies for a paycheck.
54:51
SPEAKER_05: Right.
54:52
SPEAKER_05: And it's like, well, that right there puts some hurt because, like, well, if I'm supposed to, you know, I was throwing some Bible verses that, you know, I'm supposed to give all of my talents away for free because this is what the Bible says.
55:04
SPEAKER_05: Why doesn't that apply to the the senior pastor?
55:07
SPEAKER_01: And yeah, exactly.
55:08
SPEAKER_01: And and and and that's a lot of the and yeah, you're right.
55:10
SPEAKER_01: But what about contributes to that?
55:11
SPEAKER_05: And what about Jesus saying, you know, you're you're worthy of your talents?
55:14
SPEAKER_05: Right.
55:14
SPEAKER_05: And the Bible clearly says that you're worthy of your talents.
55:17
SPEAKER_05: So if the janitor can get paid for cleaning toilets and the pastor can get prayed, or the not only the pastor, let's go, let's go with the guest speaker.
55:26
SPEAKER_05: The guest speaker who's not even a member on staff gets a check of thousands of dollars just for showing up.
55:34
SPEAKER_05: Sure did say that.
55:35
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, that went double viral.
55:37
SPEAKER_05: Thousands of dollars for just showing up at a church that isn't even his own.
55:42
SPEAKER_03: We're laughing because uh I said that on another podcast.
55:45
SPEAKER_03: The exact same sentence.
55:46
SPEAKER_01: And it went viral, the exact same sentence.
55:48
SPEAKER_03: And then someone like clipped it and reposted it and then blew it up viral again.
55:54
SPEAKER_03: Yep, it blew up.
55:55
SPEAKER_01: And it was the exact same sentence.
55:57
SPEAKER_01: But it's just truth.
55:57
SPEAKER_05: I'm I'm not doing it for click but I'm just saying truth because it's a stuff that I've witnessed firsthand.
56:03
SPEAKER_05: Firsthand.
56:03
SPEAKER_05: We all have.
56:04
SPEAKER_01: We all we've all witnessed it.
56:05
SPEAKER_01: So, and you're right, that stuff contributes to a lack of interest to take your talents into a church.
56:13
SPEAKER_01: Because even if you are paid, it's undermarket.
56:16
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
56:16
SPEAKER_01: Um, a lot of times they end up with multiple roles that they don't get additional compensation for doing because we can't keep people in the other roles.
56:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
56:26
SPEAKER_01: And so you have a very large church with a lot of individual needs, with and you don't have the staff properly allocated or even the, you know, the the money to do to pull them in to take care of all these people.
56:39
SPEAKER_01: So I think we we're too focused on what our pictures look like on Instagram and Facebook to make the room look fun.
56:48
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, those reels look beautiful.
56:49
SPEAKER_01: They look beautiful, but you've got broken hearts and souls because you don't have the people to minister to them.
56:56
SPEAKER_05: Beautiful, beautiful reels with broken souls.
57:01
SPEAKER_05: That's a title.
57:03
SPEAKER_03: Beautiful reels of broken souls, and it's the truth.
57:06
SPEAKER_03: It's the honest of God's truth.
57:08
SPEAKER_01: Well, I like we've all experienced it and I've lived it.
57:10
SPEAKER_01: You know, I've I've I've had people say to me the same thing that you said to me, you know, reached out and didn't get what they needed.
57:19
SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I could go find somebody, but that's because I knew who was responsible for that.
57:25
SPEAKER_01: That's just being in the same space for a long period of time.
57:29
SPEAKER_01: But and saying to them, hey, somebody reached out and didn't get, you know, but I shouldn't have to do that.
57:35
SPEAKER_01: Um but we we're we're on this this train of getting in numbers and having very large buildings and very fancy things to attract people.
57:45
SPEAKER_01: And we just don't they don't have the staff to support those things well.
57:51
SPEAKER_01: And corporate America has these same struggles, you know, do more with do more with less.
57:55
SPEAKER_01: And I feel like churches have started to pick up, unfortunately, a very corporate mindset and how they move around uh the country in some things.
58:04
SPEAKER_01: They do they try to do more with less.
58:06
SPEAKER_05: They want to be corporate, but they're not really doing it like corporate.
58:09
SPEAKER_01: Oh no, they're not.
58:10
SPEAKER_05: No.
58:10
SPEAKER_05: Um they wanna be.
58:11
SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna I'm gonna leave that where it is.
58:12
SPEAKER_01: Um again, being in corporate for so many years, I can tell you that yeah, they are not successful at it.
58:17
SPEAKER_01: Um, but but that's what they're using, right?
58:20
SPEAKER_01: It's it's a distorted model of that and coming at it with the do more with less and throwing in the statement that you made, you know, before, throwing in a little guilt to make you feel like, well, if you want to actually be compensated for this, you don't, you're not a real Christian.
58:35
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
58:35
SPEAKER_05: They they they try to tarnish your um your relationship with Goddess.
58:41
SPEAKER_05: Like, I shouldn't have an unhealthy servitude when I'm trying to serve my church.
58:45
SPEAKER_05: Like there's something wrong with that.
58:46
SPEAKER_03: Well, they say your rewards in heaven.
58:48
SPEAKER_03: Well, my light bill is here on earth.
58:49
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
58:50
SPEAKER_03: So it's plain and telling me.
58:51
SPEAKER_05: And it took gas play to get here and there.
58:53
SPEAKER_05: Like, I mean, nothing.
58:55
SPEAKER_05: You guys want me to come five times a week and I'm not picking on one church individual.
58:59
SPEAKER_05: I've worked in church all my life, many churches.
59:01
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
59:01
SPEAKER_05: And I love church.
59:02
SPEAKER_05: So I'm not, I don't want somebody to say, oh, this was the last church he was at, so he must be talking about that.
59:07
SPEAKER_01: No, I mean to clarify everyone sitting in this room.
59:11
SPEAKER_01: Part of what made this discussion what it is, is because we have multiple experiences in churches.
59:16
SPEAKER_01: So there's not one specific church we're looking at.
59:20
SPEAKER_01: The the statements are made in generalities and by three people who have a multitude of years of experiences.
59:26
SPEAKER_05: Oh, we have a hundred years of church in here, I'm sure.
59:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
59:29
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, that this is not specific to one thing in general at all.
59:32
SPEAKER_01: This is a conversation of experience where we've seen consistent patterns across the board.
59:36
SPEAKER_01: But we've got to be.
1:00:01
SPEAKER_03: This is hopefully someone who hears this understands.
1:00:05
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, the more with less, it's it's the toxicity that's driving your church down.
1:00:10
SPEAKER_03: And sometimes it is uh because of the reasons that Christine has just mentioned, but sometimes it's because your budget is allocated to spend so much on your senior pastor's salary that you can't afford to hire someone else.
1:00:27
SPEAKER_03: So now your children's pastor also has to clean toilets and pull double duty.
1:00:34
SPEAKER_03: I've seen that for that reason.
1:00:38
SPEAKER_05: I've seen that.
1:00:39
SPEAKER_03: And then there's the other thing where they they not only disparage your vertical relationship, but they also come back and remind you of the nepotism or the favoritism that got you the position, and they remind you that you're not necessarily qualified.
1:00:54
SPEAKER_03: And so they'll say, Well, hey, if you were at this particular competence level, then we would pay you this much.
1:01:02
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:01:02
SPEAKER_03: Which is the most offensive thing that you could say in that position because you literally just said, I hired you to check off a box out of necessity.
1:01:11
SPEAKER_03: And when it came time for you to express your value, then all of a sudden, I'm good enough to be in this position for this reason, but not good enough to be paid, like you said, market value.
1:01:21
SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
1:01:23
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I th I think we need, I think there needs to be a clear understanding between volunteers and employees.
1:01:29
SPEAKER_01: And I think sometimes within the church environment, the lines get crossed.
1:01:34
SPEAKER_01: Um, I I made a statement earlier about, you know, volunteers not being um supported, and that's kind of what I was leaning into.
1:01:42
SPEAKER_01: Um, when someone is volunteering their time at a church, um, that should have a certain expectation of criteria for them.
1:01:50
SPEAKER_01: And that should be clear from from the get-go.
1:01:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:01:52
SPEAKER_01: And it shouldn't modify or you shouldn't expand on that unless you are going to start to compensate them um exactly in in some fashion or form that they agree upon.
1:02:05
SPEAKER_05: The volunteers shouldn't be there longer than the staff.
1:02:08
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
1:02:08
SPEAKER_01: That that that that in itself is a problem.
1:02:11
SPEAKER_05: I've seen that.
1:02:12
SPEAKER_01: Um, you you really need to staff volunteers well, and and I'm coming at this thought process not so much just from my church experience, um, but as we talked about earlier being, you know, multi- and tri-vocational, um, I somehow for the past five or six years have stumbled into a space where I manage volunteers for um classical concerts for two groups in the valley.
1:02:36
SPEAKER_01: And so I am compensated for managing those volunteers.
1:02:40
SPEAKER_01: So I'm not speaking just from watching it happen in a church perspective, but actually being responsible for volunteers, training them, and making sure we understand the criteria.
1:02:51
SPEAKER_01: Now, they are not paid because they're volunteers.
1:02:54
SPEAKER_01: Their benefit is they get to sit in this concert that usually has a$50 ticket for free.
1:02:59
SPEAKER_05: Okay.
1:02:59
SPEAKER_01: But their tasks do not change.
1:03:02
unknown: Okay.
1:03:02
SPEAKER_01: They are given the tasks at the beginning of the season.
1:03:05
SPEAKER_01: This is what you will be expected to do.
1:03:07
SPEAKER_03: Bang.
1:03:08
SPEAKER_01: Everything else outside of that is my responsibility because I am the paid employee of the organization.
1:03:15
SPEAKER_01: And so my goal is to make their work as seamless as possible.
1:03:19
SPEAKER_01: Because really, what they're there to be is the front door to all of our patrons.
1:03:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:03:25
SPEAKER_01: So you don't need to be there as late as I am.
1:03:27
SPEAKER_01: I should be, you should be gone long before I'm out of there.
1:03:29
SPEAKER_07: Exactly.
1:03:30
SPEAKER_01: If I see you struggling with something, I'm going to walk over and say, you know what, let me take care of this patron.
1:03:34
SPEAKER_01: This is not, because you don't get paid to deal with that.
1:03:36
SPEAKER_01: I get paid to deal with that.
1:03:38
SPEAKER_01: And so that's more or less where my head is as far as volunteerism is concerned.
1:03:44
SPEAKER_01: Because I always saw that there was, you know, some line crossing with that.
1:03:49
SPEAKER_01: But then when I actually became responsible for managing volunteers and I really got a better understanding of, okay, this is where the line is crossing specifically, is that we start expanding on the roles of volunteers because there's a need, but that was never the intent for that role.
1:04:05
SPEAKER_01: Volunteers need to have something a very clear, yeah, very simple, very defined.
1:04:10
SPEAKER_06: Not a stressful work environment.
1:04:11
SPEAKER_01: It should not be, well, you shouldn't even call it a work.
1:04:13
SPEAKER_01: If you're calling it a work environment, that's already a problem.
1:04:16
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
1:04:16
SPEAKER_01: Right?
1:04:16
SPEAKER_01: That they need to be paid.
1:04:18
SPEAKER_01: If it's become a work environment, that you need to be paid.
1:04:21
SPEAKER_01: Volunteerism is supposed to be something you do because you enjoy doing it enough to not be paid for it.
1:04:26
SPEAKER_01: The minute you start thinking I need a check for this, you're doing too much work.
1:04:30
SPEAKER_01: Volunteerism is supposed to be fun.
1:04:32
SPEAKER_01: I agree with that.
1:04:34
SPEAKER_01: Because I volunteer, there are things I volunteer at.
1:04:36
SPEAKER_01: I don't need a check for that because that's how much I love to do that.
1:04:40
SPEAKER_01: The minute it starts to feel like, you know what, y'all need to give somebody a check for this.
1:04:43
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:04:44
SPEAKER_01: That's not you can't.
1:04:45
SPEAKER_01: It's supposed to be a joyous gift, not a painful gift.
1:04:47
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
1:04:49
SPEAKER_03: And it should be exactly what it is.
1:04:51
SPEAKER_03: Volunteer.
1:04:53
SPEAKER_03: Which means I should have the option to do when I am free to do.
1:04:58
SPEAKER_03: Here's the biggest thing.
1:04:59
SPEAKER_03: Just say no.
1:05:00
SPEAKER_01: And say no.
1:05:00
SPEAKER_03: That part right there.
1:05:02
SPEAKER_01: And and when you're managing it well, you have enough volunteers to carry that.
1:05:06
SPEAKER_03: That part.
1:05:06
SPEAKER_03: So here's the problem.
1:05:08
SPEAKER_03: The reason why we ride volunteers, churches in general, is because they are usually not prepared for a contingency plan, and there's an over-reliance on that said volunteer.
1:05:24
SPEAKER_03: So rather than say, okay, well, we have 10 people for six slots, we have four people for six slots, and then one of them calls out six, it's oh, well, we need you because we're not prepared.
1:05:35
SPEAKER_03: Here's the problem with that, though, when it comes to that whole concept.
1:05:39
SPEAKER_03: As volunteer, you do not have the right to hold my time accountable as if I am compensated on a role.
1:05:48
SPEAKER_03: Because my time is literally that.
1:05:50
SPEAKER_03: It's volunteered, which means if I have a vacation or a recital, do not pressure me as if it is my obligation to be here.
1:05:59
SPEAKER_03: To be here.
1:06:00
SPEAKER_01: Not yours, yeah.
1:06:01
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
1:06:01
unknown: Yeah.
1:06:02
SPEAKER_01: That's exactly what volunteerism should look like.
1:06:04
SPEAKER_01: I we are my I the volunteers I have for the organizations I do that for are staffed appropriately.
1:06:11
SPEAKER_01: If someone tells me they can't, okay, we have four people that night for that concert, but we really only need three.
1:06:18
SPEAKER_01: Four is nice, three is totally doable.
1:06:21
SPEAKER_01: Wow you go right ahead.
1:06:22
SPEAKER_01: I'm so sorry your husband's sick.
1:06:23
SPEAKER_01: We will see you at the next concert.
1:06:25
SPEAKER_01: They have concerts across three or four nights.
1:06:27
SPEAKER_01: I don't have the same people all three nights.
1:06:29
SPEAKER_01: That's three different sets of people.
1:06:30
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
1:06:31
SPEAKER_01: If you want to volunteer for multiple nights, you are welcome to do so.
1:06:34
SPEAKER_01: But you are only asked one night.
1:06:37
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:06:38
SPEAKER_03: You know who gets that right?
1:06:39
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:06:40
SPEAKER_03: True volunteer organizations when you have baked sales or when you go visit people in the hospitals and stuff like that.
1:06:48
SPEAKER_03: It's because that is exactly the concept of it.
1:06:52
SPEAKER_03: It's people free will giving of their time, their space, their resources, their energy to be here.
1:06:58
SPEAKER_03: Meaning, if we get 50, then cool.
1:07:02
SPEAKER_03: If we get five, then that's fine because the expectation of that said donated time, effort, resources, everything is just that.
1:07:12
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:07:13
SPEAKER_03: It's donated, it's volunteered.
1:07:15
SPEAKER_03: So you never hear, like you said, the Red Cross, or you never hear the PTA, well, maybe not now, but um of certain organizations that are strictly volunteer, you never hear them pressuring, like, hey, this is gonna fail if you don't show up.
1:07:32
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:07:32
SPEAKER_03: I've never heard the children's hospital say, if you don't show up, this whole thing, we're just gonna have to cancel the event.
1:07:40
SPEAKER_03: They never say that.
1:07:41
SPEAKER_03: No.
1:07:42
SPEAKER_03: They've never said with St.
1:07:44
SPEAKER_03: Jews.
1:07:44
SPEAKER_03: If you don't give your money, these kids gonna die.
1:07:47
SPEAKER_03: They've never said that.
1:07:51
SPEAKER_05: They should, they get more money.
1:07:54
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
1:07:54
SPEAKER_01: That that might shut people down.
1:07:56
SPEAKER_01: Right.
1:07:57
SPEAKER_01: Don't threaten me.
1:07:58
SPEAKER_01: Don't threaten me.
1:07:59
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'd be concerned that people would get offended by that.
1:08:01
SPEAKER_01: But no, he's right.
1:08:02
SPEAKER_01: It that you know, back to kind of what we both said.
1:08:04
SPEAKER_01: It it's your time and resources.
1:08:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:08:07
SPEAKER_01: And it should be joyous, not painful.
1:08:09
SPEAKER_01: The minute you start thinking you might need a check for this, there's probably an issue there.
1:08:14
SPEAKER_01: That sounds like there's time for a conversation to say, look, this is too much.
1:08:18
SPEAKER_01: Because volunteerism should never feel like that.
1:08:20
SPEAKER_01: I've had the same 15 people volunteering for one of these organizations for 10 years.
1:08:25
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
1:08:26
SPEAKER_01: And we talked about it last year because they're switching executive directors, and he asked them if they were gonna stay.
1:08:32
SPEAKER_01: He's like, all 15 of them said, Well, we'll stay as long as Christine is managing it because she doesn't abuse us.
1:08:39
SPEAKER_01: Right.
1:08:39
SPEAKER_05: They're your biggest fans.
1:08:41
SPEAKER_05: That's sweet.
1:08:42
SPEAKER_01: Volunteers.
1:08:43
SPEAKER_01: It's understanding what that word means.
1:08:45
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, when I when I say what I'm saying, it's not just coming from a church perspective, it's actually being in a space where I get paid to manage volunteers and understanding what that should look like.
1:08:56
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
1:08:56
SPEAKER_01: And I just that model can move into anything.
1:08:59
SPEAKER_01: If it can be the Red Cross, if it could be, you know, a children's hospital, if it could be a classical music organization, a church can do the same.
1:09:08
SPEAKER_01: We just don't allocate for that.
1:09:09
SPEAKER_01: And I get it, you know, people are flaky.
1:09:11
SPEAKER_01: That's why you need so many.
1:09:12
SPEAKER_01: Because people will say, Yeah, I want to do that, and then not show up.
1:09:15
SPEAKER_05: I thought it was just the free labor.
1:09:17
SPEAKER_01: Uh, well, that that is an added benefit.
1:09:20
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's a good idea.
1:09:20
SPEAKER_03: But that's the approach that the church takes, which is why it doesn't work out.
1:09:23
SPEAKER_03: Right.
1:09:24
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, they just want the free labor, not the volunteering.
1:09:26
SPEAKER_05: They want free labor.
1:09:27
SPEAKER_03: Well, because in every other situation, the volunteerism, the benefit is implied.
1:09:34
SPEAKER_03: With the church, the benefit is not implied.
1:09:37
SPEAKER_03: So that that's why they have to reinforce it.
1:09:41
SPEAKER_03: Some people will call that brow beating, but they have to reinforce it, which is again why in all these corporate situations, these all these other analogies, you will see they never tell you why you have to be here.
1:09:54
SPEAKER_03: It's implied.
1:09:55
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, they don't make you feel bad about it either.
1:09:57
SPEAKER_03: Like church is the only thing.
1:09:59
SPEAKER_05: Like if you have all these gifts from God, you have to give them back.
1:10:02
SPEAKER_05: And and if you're not you're not a real Christian, okay, then why is everybody else making money here but me?
1:10:07
SPEAKER_05: Right.
1:10:08
SPEAKER_03: Because that is the model of the church.
1:10:10
SPEAKER_03: You see that in every part of the volunteerism concept of the church.
1:10:15
SPEAKER_03: It's not just with the actual volunteers uh with the different auxiliary ministries.
1:10:20
SPEAKER_03: I mean, even the the tithing concept, Uncle Sam takes his money.
1:10:24
SPEAKER_03: You have to give your money to Jesus.
1:10:26
SPEAKER_03: Well, that's and there's a lack of trust there.
1:10:27
SPEAKER_05: God wants a cheerful giver.
1:10:29
SPEAKER_05: It's the truth, right?
1:10:30
SPEAKER_03: But there's a lack of trust in that because Uncle Sam takes his money and you don't have an option in most cases, but you do have the option in church.
1:10:38
SPEAKER_03: And because the option is there, the lack of trust, it it perpetuates us to brow beat and say, if you don't give, these are the consequences.
1:10:49
SPEAKER_03: Wow, that's cheap.
1:10:51
SPEAKER_03: And so that bleeds into every other part of ministry.
1:10:54
SPEAKER_03: If you don't show up, these are the consequences.
1:10:57
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
1:10:58
SPEAKER_03: If you don't volunteer for the Easter program, ain't gonna be one.
1:11:02
SPEAKER_03: As if Jesus' resurrection will be any less celebrated because you don't have an Easter program.
1:11:08
SPEAKER_01: Because your six-year-old, Jesus is born on Easter.
1:11:11
SPEAKER_03: You got 16 of them.
1:11:12
SPEAKER_03: You don't need 17.
1:11:14
SPEAKER_01: I don't need 17.
1:11:15
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
1:11:16
SPEAKER_03: But there's a lot of narcissism that gets embedded in these auxiliary ministries.
1:11:21
SPEAKER_03: We come be we become party planners and we start to look and get this vision, not his, but our vision of how things are supposed to look.
1:11:29
SPEAKER_03: And that's where we start to really, really hammer people's donated time, effort, resources, ability to pull things off.
1:11:38
SPEAKER_03: Abuse it.
1:11:38
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:11:38
SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna say something a little controversial.
1:11:40
SPEAKER_03: I was talking to a friend of mine earlier.
1:11:42
SPEAKER_03: Right.
1:11:42
SPEAKER_03: Sorry, Levy.
1:11:43
SPEAKER_03: Really, I really do.
1:11:45
SPEAKER_03: Like one of my closest friends.
1:11:46
SPEAKER_03: That's not a lie.
1:11:47
SPEAKER_03: Um she really is.
1:11:49
SPEAKER_00: Um, you look at his face, you wouldn't believe any of that.
1:11:52
SPEAKER_03: Your face says otherwise.
1:11:54
SPEAKER_03: That was part of the selling point.
1:11:55
SPEAKER_03: I wouldn't see what I've got.
1:11:57
SPEAKER_05: Why were you looking the other direction?
1:11:58
SPEAKER_03: You couldn't even look at her when you said.
1:11:59
SPEAKER_01: That's what I got was bombastic side eye, is what I got.
1:12:02
unknown: Jesus.
1:12:03
SPEAKER_05: Like, don't look at me when I say this.
1:12:06
SPEAKER_03: Christine knows that I love her, and she's like one of my closest friends.
1:12:08
SPEAKER_03: She's one of the few people that I talk to with like regularity.
1:12:11
SPEAKER_03: No, I think we feel it on this program.
1:12:13
SPEAKER_03: You don't have to, like, we know you guys are close.
1:12:16
SPEAKER_03: Um, but I was talking to a friend of mine, super controversial, but it is what it is.
1:12:20
SPEAKER_03: Um, I was talking to a friend of mine earlier today, and I had this take about a very prominent actress who was in a movie where she won an Academy Award after being in a lot of films for the one time that she took her clothes off.
1:12:37
SPEAKER_00: Got it.
1:12:38
SPEAKER_00: Got it.
1:12:39
SPEAKER_03: And so my point was this.
1:12:42
SPEAKER_03: My point was the point of the scene of that movie was specifically to drive up viewership and sales.
1:12:52
SPEAKER_03: Because if you extract that scene from that movie, the plot does not change at all.
1:12:59
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:13:00
SPEAKER_03: Period.
1:13:01
SPEAKER_03: They could be sitting on the couch, they could kiss and fade to black, and the movie goes on just like it would have.
1:13:09
SPEAKER_01: Knew it.
1:13:11
SPEAKER_03: But they had to put that in there.
1:13:13
SPEAKER_03: Because the vision of that movie was for a completely different purpose than to actually invoke emotion for the subject matter of that movie.
1:13:24
SPEAKER_03: You can say that, you can talk about racism and dark.
1:13:27
SPEAKER_03: No, you wanted to sell tickets by having that person exposed in that movie.
1:13:33
SPEAKER_05: Ouch.
1:13:34
SPEAKER_05: That was just their that was just their vehicle to do it.
1:13:37
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
1:13:37
SPEAKER_03: That was it.
1:13:39
SPEAKER_03: And so when it can, when it comes to getting back to ministry, when it comes to that vision, like you take the vision from God.
1:13:45
SPEAKER_03: We, I'll say we, we take the vision from God.
1:13:48
SPEAKER_03: We invoke our own personal aspirations because we want a hybrid with God.
1:13:53
SPEAKER_03: We want to say, well, God, isn't there a way where you can get what you want?
1:13:55
SPEAKER_03: And I can get what I want too.
1:13:56
SPEAKER_03: And God's like, are you kidding me?
1:13:58
SPEAKER_03: Are you are you serious right now?
1:14:00
SPEAKER_03: Like, why is it that you don't love me enough to just do what I've told you to do?
1:14:04
SPEAKER_03: Why is it that you feel like you have to get something out of?
1:14:08
SPEAKER_03: Why isn't not being with me, serving me, doing what I've asked you to do, why is that not enough for you?
1:14:13
SPEAKER_03: But we don't ask those questions in ministry.
1:14:16
SPEAKER_03: We don't ask them when it comes to our music ministry, we don't ask when it comes to our volunteers.
1:14:20
SPEAKER_03: Why is not volunteering enough?
1:14:22
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
1:14:23
SPEAKER_03: Why is it not attending enough?
1:14:25
SPEAKER_03: Why is it not serving enough?
1:14:27
SPEAKER_03: Why is it that whatever I contribute monetarily to the church, why is it not enough?
1:14:32
SPEAKER_03: Why is it that we have to have the thermometer on the side of the wall?
1:14:35
SPEAKER_03: Why is it that reaching in my pockets is the only way that we can get a new building?
1:14:38
SPEAKER_03: Why is it that there can't be some financial program that we can check with the government?
1:14:43
SPEAKER_03: Why can't some mysterious donor who needs to get a tax write-up?
1:14:46
SPEAKER_03: Why can't there not be another avenue?
1:14:48
SPEAKER_03: Why does it have to be this way?
1:14:50
SPEAKER_03: Why?
1:14:50
SPEAKER_03: Because you want to do you and you want to do God at the same time.
1:14:54
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:14:54
SPEAKER_03: Just like that man, he wanted to have this dark movie with all these emotions, but he wanted to sell tickets.
1:15:00
SPEAKER_05: Ouch.
1:15:01
SPEAKER_05: Do you think some of that has to do with uh like in nowadays compared to 20 years ago, more churches are uh in the business of trying to compete and they have 20,000 followers, and we need to get to 25 by summertime.
1:15:13
SPEAKER_05: And you know, churches are competing more nowadays than they ever have.
1:15:17
SPEAKER_03: A thousand percent.
1:15:18
SPEAKER_03: Because why else would you publish on your website how many people go to your church?
1:15:23
SPEAKER_03: Ouch.
1:15:23
SPEAKER_03: Why is that anybody's business?
1:15:25
SPEAKER_01: Right.
1:15:25
SPEAKER_01: Why does that matter?
1:15:26
SPEAKER_01: I mean, churches are full of human beings.
1:15:30
SPEAKER_01: Um, so they succumb to the same pressures that everyone else has felt with social media to compete.
1:15:38
SPEAKER_01: The minute we were all there, there are some benefits to social media.
1:15:41
SPEAKER_01: I don't want to be that person.
1:15:43
SPEAKER_01: But but the downside was that it gave us access and viewership to other areas, other churches, the ways other things are done, um, in spaces that maybe we wouldn't have been aware of and could have our own vision instead of having something fed into us.
1:16:00
SPEAKER_01: Um, and these are human beings sitting in a building, you know.
1:16:03
SPEAKER_01: I you work for a church, it doesn't mean you're not a person.
1:16:07
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't mean that what happens in the world does not affect you.
1:16:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:16:11
SPEAKER_01: Um, so I would wholeheartedly agree that social media and that information has infiltrated that as well.
1:16:17
SPEAKER_01: And so, yeah, there is competition.
1:16:19
SPEAKER_01: There are staff members and church leaders.
1:16:23
SPEAKER_01: You know, maybe your Instagram reels are all from Christian-based organizations.
1:16:28
SPEAKER_01: But if it's a bigger organization than yours and they're doing something and you're thinking, wow, I wish we could do that, and you go back into a leadership meeting and have that conversation, well, here we are.
1:16:36
SPEAKER_01: Right?
1:16:37
SPEAKER_01: And there's no guarantee that if you hadn't seen that, you would have gone that way.
1:16:41
SPEAKER_01: Maybe there's something that's more specific to your church that would be better.
1:16:46
SPEAKER_01: So I feel like we, yeah, that makes perfect sense.
1:16:49
SPEAKER_01: Everyone is starting to look the same.
1:16:52
SPEAKER_01: You know, we're all doing the same thing, wearing the same clothes, got the same beige couch.
1:16:56
SPEAKER_01: You know, you see the impact of influencing across social media platforms that would be no different in a church.
1:17:05
SPEAKER_01: You don't call it that, but you walk into a lot of churches and the lobby looks the same.
1:17:10
SPEAKER_01: It's the same green stuff on the wall with the little sparkly neon sign and the same welcome sign and the same font, just different colors.
1:17:20
SPEAKER_01: Right.
1:17:20
SPEAKER_01: So we're all starting to copy each other.
1:17:23
SPEAKER_01: And so that's what I was gonna say is what like whoever's at the top of the food chain, so to speak, based on numbers, um, money, um uh public platform, whether or not their worship team has an album, um, that church becomes the one to copy.
1:17:39
SPEAKER_01: And so then everyone starts to look the same.
1:17:42
SPEAKER_01: It's the same stuff that's happening with just normal everyday people on social media.
1:17:46
SPEAKER_01: So why would that not happen in a church setting?
1:17:49
SPEAKER_05: So, in that context, wouldn't that also like paint with a very broad brush that churches are seeming to follow churches instead of Christ?
1:18:03
SPEAKER_03: Well, we're here now.
1:18:04
SPEAKER_03: Um I know where you're about to say uh that's why when you watch any church's video stream or rebroadcast, you will see the logo of the church before you see the symbol of Christ.
1:18:19
SPEAKER_03: Oh my gosh, the branding.
1:18:22
SPEAKER_05: Branding.
1:18:23
SPEAKER_05: Oh Lord.
1:18:26
SPEAKER_05: Which Jesus is that?
1:18:28
SPEAKER_03: It's it's it's the church's at the West Side Jesus or the South Side Jesus.
1:18:32
SPEAKER_01: You will see the church's logo either in the church or on the screen or on the t-shirts of the people there before you will see the symbolism of the go to some of the church websites and look at their staff, their teams, their staff, and see how many people are under discipleship versus social media and marketing.
1:18:49
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, that's where a lot of focus is.
1:18:55
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
1:18:56
SPEAKER_01: It's usually one person with an assistant if they can get one.
1:19:00
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, if that you guys can do your own researches on that.
1:19:04
SPEAKER_05: That's crazy.
1:19:07
SPEAKER_03: It's the truth.
1:19:08
SPEAKER_03: We've have now entered into a process where um our theology is not good enough.
1:19:17
SPEAKER_03: Um and so competition is inherent because success is defined by numbers.
1:19:25
SPEAKER_03: I mean, if you want to get to the molecular level, it's the same Bible.
1:19:30
SPEAKER_03: It's the same teaching.
1:19:32
SPEAKER_03: So the competition is what can we do to entice this person to come here versus any other place because the message in theory is the same.
1:19:42
SPEAKER_03: The concept is the same.
1:19:43
SPEAKER_01: I'm glad you said in theory because sometimes the message is not the same.
1:19:47
SPEAKER_03: Right.
1:19:47
SPEAKER_03: That's why I said in theory.
1:19:48
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:19:48
SPEAKER_01: I said I appreciate that you added the prepositional phrase because the Bible is the same.
1:19:53
SPEAKER_03: How we're projecting it is way different.
1:19:57
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, like how can we make our Jesus more entertaining than their Jesus?
1:20:01
SPEAKER_05: And draw more people.
1:20:02
SPEAKER_05: That's it.
1:20:04
SPEAKER_03: It's the experience because you can't, I mean, the the Bible says it.
1:20:09
SPEAKER_03: Like nothing can be added, nothing can be taken away.
1:20:12
SPEAKER_03: Like the plagues, yeah.
1:20:13
SPEAKER_03: Right.
1:20:13
SPEAKER_03: So now we have to talk about the experience.
1:20:17
SPEAKER_03: How is our experience going to get a leg up on the place that sometimes is next door across the street uh within driving distance?
1:20:28
SPEAKER_03: It's it's the experience.
1:20:30
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:20:30
SPEAKER_03: You know, um, is our music catering to you better?
1:20:34
SPEAKER_03: Um is our messaging approach catering to you better?
1:20:38
SPEAKER_03: Is our food better?
1:20:39
SPEAKER_03: Is our coffee better?
1:20:40
SPEAKER_03: That's something you brought up the coffee and donuts earlier.
1:20:42
SPEAKER_01: So to connect to that, yeah.
1:20:43
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, like everything.
1:20:47
SPEAKER_03: That was something I never knew until I got to the CCM world.
1:20:50
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I've never seen that growing up in my school.
1:20:52
SPEAKER_05: Me either.
1:20:53
SPEAKER_05: Me either.
1:20:54
SPEAKER_03: That's because in in black church, you don't walk in the church with anything other than a peppermint.
1:20:58
SPEAKER_03: A Bible, a peppermint.
1:21:00
SPEAKER_05: And a Bible.
1:21:01
SPEAKER_05: That's fuzzy.
1:21:02
SPEAKER_05: You're supposed to carry the battle.
1:21:03
SPEAKER_03: That's fuzzy if it's in your grandmama's purse.
1:21:05
SPEAKER_03: It's got lint on it.
1:21:07
SPEAKER_03: See, I always depending on what side of town.
1:21:09
SPEAKER_03: It was either it was either a butterscotch or a peppermint.
1:21:13
SPEAKER_05: What about them strawberry ones with the Yes, the red pepper.
1:21:16
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, those were weird, or they had the caramel.
1:21:18
SPEAKER_05: The caramels.
1:21:20
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, we had a bunch of old ladies in our church.
1:21:23
SPEAKER_05: But that was Mamas, we called them.
1:21:25
SPEAKER_05: Mama, Mama Jones, Mama Deals, Mama This, Mama Cobert.
1:21:29
SPEAKER_01: Yes, my mother and grandmother were part of that.
1:21:32
SPEAKER_03: And the other concept is uh our lack of obedience comes from an inherent lack of patience because we don't want to reconcile vertically with God who has told us specifically that we're not ready for what it is that we want to get from him.
1:21:51
SPEAKER_03: And so when you look at a lot of churches, and this is very true in our own community as well, you'll see a church, it'll be let's just call it first Baptist Church, right?
1:22:01
SPEAKER_03: You'll have a first Baptist church, and then you'll have a second, and then you'll have a greater first Baptist church, then you'll have a new greater first Baptist church.
1:22:10
SPEAKER_03: And I guarantee you, all five of those churches have the same congregation who one day woke up and said, either I disagree with the guy who's in charge or he's stayed, he's overstayed his life.
1:22:22
SPEAKER_03: He's welcome.
1:22:23
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's time for him to step down because God has told me that this is my church.
1:22:27
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:22:27
SPEAKER_03: And so if you're not gonna do it organically, then I'm gonna go do it on my own.
1:22:32
SPEAKER_03: And the funny thing is, when you get to uh congregation harvesting, the funny thing is they have the nerve to get territorial when the very foundation of their own church was predicated on separating from a pre-existing church.
1:22:51
SPEAKER_03: And so now it's like they want to, they want I'm laughing.
1:22:55
SPEAKER_03: Christine knows why.
1:22:56
SPEAKER_03: Uh they want to tell you who you can and can't play for, where you can and can't go.
1:23:01
SPEAKER_03: That's why I'm proud of you.
1:23:02
SPEAKER_03: They want to govern.
1:23:03
SPEAKER_01: Woo yes.
1:23:04
SPEAKER_03: Right.
1:23:05
SPEAKER_03: That's why I knew I knew she was gonna get a kick out of it.
1:23:07
SPEAKER_03: Especially vocalists.
1:23:08
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:23:08
SPEAKER_03: Where you can't.
1:23:08
SPEAKER_01: That's something else where musicians can sometimes get away with that and we can't.
1:23:12
SPEAKER_01: They will look at us like we are betraying them because we have the nerve to sing someplace else.
1:23:18
SPEAKER_01: When musician, when they know a musician they have today is filling, you know, filling in for someone comes from another church.
1:23:24
SPEAKER_01: So grateful that day.
1:23:26
SPEAKER_01: So grateful to have them, but then you get the the snide undertone remarks about singing someplace else.
1:23:35
SPEAKER_03: I'm so sorry.
1:23:36
SPEAKER_03: I'm laughing.
1:23:37
SPEAKER_03: I should not.
1:23:39
SPEAKER_03: I'm laughing.
1:23:41
SPEAKER_03: I did.
1:23:41
SPEAKER_03: I'm laughing, and you know why.
1:23:43
SPEAKER_03: I'm laughing because the church that we all came from, there was a moment where that pastor specifically said that at the beginning of a message on video.
1:23:52
SPEAKER_03: He was like, We're so grateful to have him because he's everywhere.
1:23:55
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and he's not always here.
1:23:56
SPEAKER_03: Yep.
1:23:57
SPEAKER_03: He literally said that.
1:23:59
SPEAKER_03: We're blessed to have him because he goes all over the place.
1:24:02
SPEAKER_03: And we're just glad that when he's here, he's here.
1:24:04
SPEAKER_03: Right.
1:24:04
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:24:04
SPEAKER_03: And she's right.
1:24:05
SPEAKER_03: That's what you never say that about vocalists.
1:24:08
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that that has been said on the platform, where it's also been said to me on the platform, you know, almost identical words but a completely different tone.
1:24:18
SPEAKER_01: Well, glad you could make it and be here.
1:24:21
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:24:21
SPEAKER_03: Sarcastically.
1:24:22
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:24:22
SPEAKER_01: And it's like, well, now I know I'm gonna be gone next week because you're dripping.
1:24:26
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, if you play for somebody great, we're gonna celebrate that.
1:24:29
SPEAKER_05: But if you sing, you know, talentedly, it's like, okay, so what?
1:24:32
SPEAKER_05: You're coming back next week, right?
1:24:34
SPEAKER_01: Or you went someplace else with that?
1:24:37
unknown: Yeah.
1:24:37
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
1:24:38
SPEAKER_05: Oh.
1:24:38
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:24:38
SPEAKER_03: Because you're the only one that can hear.
1:24:40
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:24:41
SPEAKER_03: Share your gifts or your secrets and allow another ministry to prosper.
1:24:48
SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
1:24:49
SPEAKER_01: I have gotten the look of, oh, like I said, he gets the we're so glad he's here because he's everywhere.
1:24:55
SPEAKER_03: Right.
1:24:55
SPEAKER_01: I get the well, glad you could be here since you everywhere.
1:24:59
SPEAKER_01: Right.
1:25:00
SPEAKER_01: The tone is completely different.
1:25:01
SPEAKER_06: Ouch.
1:25:02
SPEAKER_03: And the reason why we're close is because there are several musicians who would take offense to that and we would not be close at all.
1:25:10
SPEAKER_03: But I understand the dynamic.
1:25:12
SPEAKER_03: And I wouldn't say I'm an apologetic, but we we do have the conversations.
1:25:15
SPEAKER_03: It isn't right.
1:25:16
SPEAKER_05: No.
1:25:17
SPEAKER_03: A lot of musicians are like, suck it up.
1:25:19
SPEAKER_03: I'm getting paid to you not.
1:25:20
SPEAKER_03: Suck it up.
1:25:20
SPEAKER_05: There's different boundaries, even in production.
1:25:22
SPEAKER_05: I mean, people get treated.
1:25:23
SPEAKER_05: Oh my god, yeah.
1:25:24
SPEAKER_01: Right, absolutely.
1:25:25
SPEAKER_05: Oh, yeah.
1:25:26
SPEAKER_05: So there's a lot of different people get treated differently.
1:25:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because y'all have to come in four hours earlier and stay three hours later than any of the other groups.
1:25:34
SPEAKER_01: Don't think we don't know y'all in at 4 a.m.
1:25:36
SPEAKER_05: And still get spit on.
1:25:37
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because that's foolery.
1:25:39
SPEAKER_01: We come in grumbling about 6 30 and y'all look at us like, yeah, we've been here since phone.
1:25:43
SPEAKER_01: You'll be all right.
1:25:44
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
1:25:45
SPEAKER_01: We understand.
1:25:46
SPEAKER_03: And so going back to like the foundation of our relationship, that's what it is.
1:25:50
SPEAKER_03: See, love is in action.
1:25:51
SPEAKER_05: See, because a lot of other, you know, people like say, you know, musicians or singers, they would not be that self-aware on, well, I have to do this, but what about them?
1:26:02
SPEAKER_03: Until you're missing.
1:26:03
SPEAKER_03: Until you're missing.
1:26:03
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:26:04
SPEAKER_03: And I can't get my ears right.
1:26:05
SPEAKER_03: Yep.
1:26:06
SPEAKER_03: Then all of a sudden it's like, oh my God.
1:26:08
SPEAKER_01: And my microphone's dirty.
1:26:10
SPEAKER_05: It stinks.
1:26:12
SPEAKER_01: I I heard it stinks.
1:26:13
SPEAKER_01: And then and the names aren't assigned correctly.
1:26:16
SPEAKER_01: Anyway.
1:26:17
SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, they don't notice until then.
1:26:20
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, no, I'm I'm aware that when I get there at six o'clock with that look on my face, you've already been there for two hours.
1:26:25
SPEAKER_01: Like, girl, please.
1:26:26
SPEAKER_05: Sometimes I've even been like, good afternoon.
1:26:28
SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
1:26:29
SPEAKER_05: Just playing around because I know I can do that with Christine.
1:26:32
SPEAKER_05: Right.
1:26:32
SPEAKER_05: But I can't do that with, you know, some eggshell that just walked in.
1:26:37
SPEAKER_05: No.
1:26:37
SPEAKER_05: I'm not trying to make omelets that early.
1:26:40
SPEAKER_03: I mean, but that's the truth.
1:26:41
SPEAKER_03: Like you have to, you have to really be in a position to recognize the sacrifice of others.
1:26:49
SPEAKER_03: And when you have a platform to do something about it.
1:26:53
SPEAKER_03: Remember, we talked about in in our other podcast.
1:26:55
SPEAKER_03: Like, you can't just recognize a problem and then walk away from it.
1:27:00
SPEAKER_03: No.
1:27:01
SPEAKER_03: Like you have to recognize the problem and fix it.
1:27:03
SPEAKER_03: And so, like, with us, we're close because I recognize the problem.
1:27:07
SPEAKER_03: And so the disparity was there.
1:27:09
SPEAKER_03: You know what I did when I got my own platform?
1:27:10
SPEAKER_03: I brought over an apater.
1:27:15
SPEAKER_03: Nice.
1:27:17
SPEAKER_03: Because that's what you're supposed to do.
1:27:19
SPEAKER_01: And then treated as a partner in the process.
1:27:23
SPEAKER_01: Right.
1:27:23
SPEAKER_01: Not just here saying this.
1:27:25
SPEAKER_01: Um, this is what the pastor is speaking on that Sunday.
1:27:29
SPEAKER_01: What are your thoughts?
1:27:30
SPEAKER_01: What do you feel works with this?
1:27:32
SPEAKER_01: What do you collaboration?
1:27:34
SPEAKER_01: Imagine that.
1:27:35
SPEAKER_05: Input.
1:27:37
SPEAKER_05: Wow.
1:27:38
SPEAKER_05: Real freedom to actually help make the process better.
1:27:42
SPEAKER_01: There's the word.
1:27:43
SPEAKER_01: Freedom.
1:27:44
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
1:27:45
SPEAKER_05: And not just here, you do this, you do this.
1:27:47
SPEAKER_05: And if it changes, I'll tell you.
1:27:48
SPEAKER_01: I'll tell you.
1:27:49
SPEAKER_01: And you gotta do it within this window.
1:27:50
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
1:27:50
SPEAKER_05: Right.
1:27:51
SPEAKER_01: No, no room for spontaneity, no room for ideas.
1:27:55
SPEAKER_05: So have a good heart.
1:27:56
SPEAKER_05: Right.
1:27:57
SPEAKER_05: Smile.
1:27:57
SPEAKER_03: You have you you're you're a volunteer.
1:27:59
SPEAKER_03: That part.
1:27:59
SPEAKER_03: Right.
1:28:00
SPEAKER_01: Right.
1:28:00
SPEAKER_03: And here's the crazy thing that I probably shouldn't say on here, but here's the crazy thing.
1:28:05
SPEAKER_03: Because of our relationship, she would come over for free.
1:28:09
SPEAKER_03: I'm confident in that.
1:28:12
SPEAKER_05: I would too, but I was you know me.
1:28:15
SPEAKER_05: I try to be loyal, and if I sign myself up for something, I try not to be like, oh, I found something better, you know.
1:28:20
SPEAKER_05: I I still suck it up.
1:28:22
SPEAKER_05: That's funny.
1:28:23
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I d same.
1:28:24
SPEAKER_01: And he's right.
1:28:26
SPEAKER_01: I mean, honestly, every church I've had the pleasure of doing this in, I never even ask about money.
1:28:33
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
1:28:35
SPEAKER_01: He offered, I didn't ask.
1:28:37
SPEAKER_05: It should be a benefit.
1:28:38
SPEAKER_01: The very first church that this happened with, I never even it never even the sad thing is because it was back in 2020 when we were all in shutdown mode.
1:28:46
SPEAKER_01: And so I had friends that had moved on to other churches and they were like, hey, you know, here's an idea.
1:28:51
SPEAKER_01: How about you record yourself singing something and then we can just digitally put it because that's what everybody was doing anyway.
1:28:55
SPEAKER_02: We're all at home.
1:28:56
SPEAKER_02: Ooh, I miss them days.
1:28:58
SPEAKER_01: That just sounded like fun to me.
1:29:00
SPEAKER_01: Um, I forgot how much I hate hearing myself sing, so the editing part was a tad bit painful, but that's fine.
1:29:04
SPEAKER_01: Um but it was a chance to still do it, and I just sent the files and a check showed up in the mail.
1:29:12
SPEAKER_01: I never asked about it.
1:29:13
SPEAKER_01: But it was someone who valued my time and your talent to do that.
1:29:18
SPEAKER_01: But I've never asked.
1:29:20
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
1:29:20
SPEAKER_01: I've never asked.
1:29:21
SPEAKER_01: I'm sitting at a worship conference this this next week for a couple of days.
1:29:25
SPEAKER_01: I have no idea.
1:29:27
SPEAKER_01: I'm assuming there's compensation because I did it two years before and there was compensation, but we didn't talk about money then either.
1:29:33
SPEAKER_01: And then a check just showed up.
1:29:35
SPEAKER_03: That's also why she's blessed.
1:29:37
SPEAKER_03: There are so many people who lead with that, uh, where the conversation just goes south.
1:29:43
SPEAKER_00: Right.
1:29:43
SPEAKER_03: It's just like even if you're concerned about it and it's not a contingency, when you communicate that up front, you make it seem as if it's a contingency.
1:29:52
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:29:52
SPEAKER_03: It's like, all right, cool, wait, how much does this pay?
1:29:55
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
1:29:57
SPEAKER_01: My thing is this if I have to ask you well, first of all, no, not really.
1:30:02
SPEAKER_01: Because the only people who call me are people I have those kinds of relationships with who it would be for free in the first place.
1:30:09
SPEAKER_01: I don't know that I've ever had a phone call from someone that I didn't have years attached to that relationship.
1:30:15
SPEAKER_01: Like this one's nine.
1:30:17
SPEAKER_01: The first person, it's 13 years.
1:30:23
SPEAKER_01: And then the person I'm leading worship with at this conference is 19 years.
1:30:28
SPEAKER_01: So there's not a single person, and the other one is 14 years.
1:30:32
SPEAKER_01: So there's not a single person in this circle that I trust like this that I haven't had years of worship experience with.
1:30:39
SPEAKER_01: So I think that makes the difference too.
1:30:41
SPEAKER_01: I own I only do this in spaces that people already trust.
1:30:45
SPEAKER_01: Because I'm not out here with a VistaPrint business card saying, hey, you need a worship leader.
1:30:49
SPEAKER_05: This is not crazy work.
1:30:50
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, you're not supposed to advertise like that.
1:30:52
SPEAKER_01: Whatever.
1:30:52
SPEAKER_05: This is not that's old.
1:30:56
SPEAKER_01: Because I'm old.
1:30:57
SPEAKER_01: Anyway, this is I'm not out here, I'm not out here selling myself as a worship pastor, right?
1:31:04
SPEAKER_01: These are people that I have the relationship with, that I have served with who have reached back.
1:31:11
SPEAKER_01: So I haven't worried about what that look looks like or sounds like because these are people they've already proven to me in other areas over multiple years of time that I can trust them.
1:31:22
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
1:31:22
SPEAKER_01: I'm I I'm not out here jumping around gigs.
1:31:24
SPEAKER_01: That's the thing that I think people don't understand when they hear or see what I'm doing.
1:31:29
SPEAKER_01: They think I'm the vocal version of a musician, that I'm just hopping around in gigs.
1:31:35
SPEAKER_05: No.
1:31:35
SPEAKER_01: No.
1:31:36
SPEAKER_05: Your your uh connections are well established.
1:31:40
SPEAKER_01: Right.
1:31:40
SPEAKER_01: And I didn't see this coming at all.
1:31:43
SPEAKER_01: Again, it started in 2020 with just me recording myself and people putting it in digitally into their worship services.
1:31:50
SPEAKER_01: That's how this started.
1:31:52
SPEAKER_01: Sometimes me too, not all the times, but sometimes.
1:31:54
SPEAKER_02: I was playing for like 17 churches during COVID.
1:31:57
SPEAKER_01: Well, that and that's the fun part of it.
1:31:58
SPEAKER_01: There were Sundays where I would literally see myself three times in three different churches because we were digitally moving all those parts.
1:32:05
SPEAKER_01: But that's how all this started.
1:32:06
SPEAKER_01: And then when the doors opened, they came back and said, Well, since you did that, you know, but that's how it started.
1:32:11
SPEAKER_01: I wasn't out here, and I'm still not out here selling myself as anyone's worship leader.
1:32:16
SPEAKER_01: I can't stand that verb.
1:32:18
SPEAKER_01: It's just saying it now, my eye just itched.
1:32:21
SPEAKER_01: I'm not, this is not my thankful.
1:32:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, this is not my this is not a profession.
1:32:26
SPEAKER_01: This is something I love and choose to do.
1:32:28
SPEAKER_01: So I don't, I think why I haven't had conversations that have gone south is because I don't get in conversations like that with people I don't already have an established relationship with.
1:32:39
SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
1:32:40
SPEAKER_03: So she said something very, very telling.
1:32:43
SPEAKER_03: She said, This is not a profession.
1:32:47
SPEAKER_03: That is what distinguishes the toxicity, I've used that word a couple times, um, from the healthy.
1:32:54
SPEAKER_03: Because when you do have those hockey players skating around without a stick, those mercenaries, those hired guns, um, those are the ones who do ask up front because unfortunately, the and I'm not knocking them, but their lifestyle is predicated on this as income for stability.
1:33:17
SPEAKER_03: But here's the freedom when you're not like that.
1:33:20
SPEAKER_03: You can dangle that carrot in front of me all day long.
1:33:23
SPEAKER_03: But if I don't need the money, then I am not going to compromise my integrity to be at your beck and call for whatever it is that you need.
1:33:33
SPEAKER_03: Right.
1:33:34
SPEAKER_03: Up into including the day of.
1:33:37
SPEAKER_03: Because if you screw me, I will get up and walk out mid-service and I've done it before.
1:33:42
SPEAKER_03: Sure have.
1:33:43
SPEAKER_03: Wow.
1:33:45
SPEAKER_03: I don't need this check.
1:33:47
SPEAKER_02: No.
1:33:49
SPEAKER_03: And see, the the worst part about it is if you think that you can dangle this check in front of me to entice me to do what you want, then that moment that went viral is to me, it's justified.
1:34:02
SPEAKER_03: So for those who are listening that don't know what I I said something on another podcast that it went viral twice.
1:34:08
SPEAKER_03: I said that the only difference when it comes to church musicians and prostitution is that they leave$200 on a keyboard instead of a nightstand.
1:34:15
SPEAKER_03: And it went crazy.
1:34:16
SPEAKER_03: And people had their opinions.
1:34:18
SPEAKER_03: And the point I was trying to make is that it's a tr it's a transactional relationship.
1:34:23
SPEAKER_03: Period.
1:34:24
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:34:24
SPEAKER_03: You you pay someone for a service that provides euphoria.
1:34:27
SPEAKER_03: What that euphoria is, you guys can debate that in the interwebs.
1:34:30
SPEAKER_03: I don't care anymore.
1:34:31
SPEAKER_03: But the point I'm trying to make is that by beginning that transaction on either side on the compensation, you're now telling me that this is all this relationship is ever going to be.
1:34:44
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
1:34:45
SPEAKER_03: And so at that point, I'm going to adjust my expectations.
1:34:48
SPEAKER_03: The problem is, at my age now, I don't need any more transactional relationships.
1:34:52
SPEAKER_03: If you're not building something where I can both contribute to and receive from, then I don't want it.
1:34:58
SPEAKER_03: You mean that$100 a week isn't paying your bills?
1:35:01
SPEAKER_03: Oh no.
1:35:02
SPEAKER_05: $100 a week ain't putting gas in my car to get to the church.
1:35:04
SPEAKER_05: Well, you should be so much more grateful that, you know, this big, huge mega church has given you this$100 a week, Reg.
1:35:12
SPEAKER_03: When you get to the point, bro.
1:35:14
SPEAKER_05: That should cover everything in your life.
1:35:16
SPEAKER_05: The gas, the food, the diaper, the power.
1:35:20
SPEAKER_05: That$100 a week goes so far, Richard.
1:35:23
SPEAKER_03: I'm well past diapers.
1:35:26
SPEAKER_03: Uh-uh.
1:35:27
SPEAKER_03: The devil is$100 a week got me in debt.
1:35:30
SPEAKER_05: That's what that$100 a week did part, right?
1:35:33
SPEAKER_05: Like that's the honesty.
1:35:35
SPEAKER_05: But that was the honesty.
1:35:36
SPEAKER_03: Jake's mad right now.
1:35:38
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I don't know that he's mad.
1:35:42
SPEAKER_05: I'm not mad.
1:35:42
SPEAKER_05: I'm hurt.
1:35:43
SPEAKER_05: He's hurt.
1:35:43
SPEAKER_05: That's true.
1:35:45
SPEAKER_05: And I'm a human too.
1:35:46
SPEAKER_01: And I don't know that the thought process is even that it's the$100 should take care of all of your needs.
1:35:53
SPEAKER_01: It is, well, if you were doing this for the right reasons, the$100 should feel like extra to you.
1:36:00
SPEAKER_01: So why are you complaining?
1:36:02
SPEAKER_01: They're not, they're not looking at it as deep as you just said.
1:36:06
SPEAKER_01: They're not looking at$100 and what it takes to live anymore.
1:36:10
SPEAKER_01: That that's not even part of the conversation.
1:36:14
SPEAKER_01: And at that time it was like six bucks a gallon.
1:36:16
SPEAKER_01: Right.
1:36:17
SPEAKER_01: So it's more their br in their brain, it's, you know, well, if you were doing this for, you know, for the right reasons, then whatever money we give you is just that should just be an extra blessing to you because you wanted to be here anyway, right?
1:36:29
SPEAKER_03: Until you put a monetary value on the investment of your service, meaning LeBron James gets 40-something million as a basketball player.
1:36:40
SPEAKER_03: People argue that he shouldn't be paid that much.
1:36:43
SPEAKER_03: No, the team that he plays for is net valued at like 10 billion.
1:36:49
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:36:49
SPEAKER_03: Meaning when he goes to play in other arenas, they raise the ticket prices.
1:36:54
SPEAKER_01: Which we're seeing that now.
1:36:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:36:56
SPEAKER_03: Because of the commodity.
1:36:57
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:36:58
SPEAKER_03: So if he is earning everyone in the league more money more money, you need to pay him more money.
1:37:05
SPEAKER_03: Yep.
1:37:05
SPEAKER_03: If what I contribute to the experience, I'm air quoting for those who can't see me, to the experience of this church, which garnishes you more money, then you need to pay me more money.
1:37:18
SPEAKER_03: It's just that simple.
1:37:20
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
1:37:20
SPEAKER_03: Period.
1:37:21
SPEAKER_03: If I have personally, and I know it sounds arrogant, it doesn't matter.
1:37:25
SPEAKER_03: If I have contributed to the increase in giving, the increase in attendance, the increase in congregation, which has increased the net value, then yes, you need to pay me more.
1:37:36
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
1:37:37
SPEAKER_03: Because that is the construct of everything else in life.
1:37:41
SPEAKER_03: Period.
1:37:42
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:37:42
SPEAKER_05: If everybody can pay their light bill, then why can't I?
1:37:48
SPEAKER_02: That's it.
1:37:50
SPEAKER_01: Profound thought.
1:37:52
SPEAKER_02: He said light bill twice.
1:37:53
SPEAKER_02: Do we need to cash app you now?
1:37:56
SPEAKER_02: No.
1:37:57
SPEAKER_05: No, that's a donation part at the end.
1:37:59
SPEAKER_05: Okay.
1:37:59
SPEAKER_02: That's it, AJ.
1:38:00
SPEAKER_02: Where's the empower box?
1:38:01
SPEAKER_05: I just play with you.
1:38:03
SPEAKER_05: I was one of the first people to have an empower box.
1:38:05
SPEAKER_05: You know this.
1:38:06
SPEAKER_05: I was on I was on the test program.
1:38:08
SPEAKER_05: I like that.
1:38:08
SPEAKER_05: That pre-powered.
1:38:10
SPEAKER_03: Funny.
1:38:11
SPEAKER_03: That's funny.
1:38:12
SPEAKER_03: I mean, that's a true statement.
1:38:14
SPEAKER_03: And it does work in ministry too.
1:38:16
SPEAKER_03: And you see it in other successful ministries like Elevation and I won't say the other ones.
1:38:23
SPEAKER_03: But when the pastor has a recognizable following outside of the church, when his ministry, his or her ministry, has a recognizable following outside the church, I guarantee you that the salary for most of them that comes from the church, unless they turn it down, is significantly larger than everyone else that goes that works for the church.
1:38:47
SPEAKER_05: No, I thought it was just from the books that they'd be selling, Rich.
1:38:51
SPEAKER_03: Like I said, unless you turn it down.
1:38:53
SPEAKER_03: There are some pastors have that have turned down their salaries or they are like 90-10 or whatever.
1:38:57
SPEAKER_05: And yeah, I've seen those churches.
1:38:59
SPEAKER_05: Right.
1:38:59
SPEAKER_05: Some of those churches actually run very, very, very well.
1:39:03
SPEAKER_03: Imagine that.
1:39:06
SPEAKER_03: But yeah, I mean, when you walk into this thinking that for some reason, the deity that we preach about, there's no known documentation of him pursuing prosperity at any way, shape, or form.
1:39:19
SPEAKER_03: And it's never clicked on you that for some reason you should pursue that too, because you're being quote unquote obedient to your calling.
1:39:28
SPEAKER_03: The disconnect is it's subconscious and you've missed it from the beginning.
1:39:33
SPEAKER_03: Anytime you think that you can get rich off of ministry, when that's the last thing that Jesus ever documented being doing, then you've got a problem from jump.
1:39:42
SPEAKER_03: Jesus himself didn't get rich doing.
1:39:44
SPEAKER_03: Never.
1:39:44
SPEAKER_03: Right, but then he should have, but he never did.
1:39:47
SPEAKER_01: But that's the problem.
1:39:48
SPEAKER_01: That's the problem now.
1:39:50
SPEAKER_01: There is money in ministry.
1:39:52
SPEAKER_01: If you go back and look at, you know, the the CC Wynans and the families that have been doing gospel music for 30, 40 years that made the choice to do it when there was no money in it.
1:40:03
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:40:04
SPEAKER_01: They have a much different investment than the groups you see now because they didn't get in it for money.
1:40:09
SPEAKER_01: The problem is there is money now.
1:40:11
SPEAKER_01: The first time I saw a couple of you know big Christian groups and the kind of money they were pulling in ticket sales and brand deals, and I went, uh-oh.
1:40:23
SPEAKER_01: Um, because I knew this was going to be a problem.
1:40:25
SPEAKER_01: And it's and it and the impact is all the way down to the local church.
1:40:28
SPEAKER_01: It's why you do see people jumping on platforms to sing who really should not, or try to play who really should not.
1:40:37
SPEAKER_05: My grandma said I could sing.
1:40:39
SPEAKER_05: Please don't get me excited on that.
1:40:40
SPEAKER_01: That and, you know, singing, singing to certain music in the car and thinking, ooh, that's what I want to do, and not understanding that there's work involved.
1:40:49
SPEAKER_05: I sound the best in the shower.
1:40:50
SPEAKER_05: Like some of the kind of concept.
1:40:52
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
1:40:52
SPEAKER_01: It's the American auto concept, and it's now moved to the church.
1:40:56
SPEAKER_01: You're not seeing that some of these groups that are blowing up now have been writing music for 15 years that nobody heard.
1:41:02
SPEAKER_04: Right.
1:41:02
SPEAKER_01: Um, that they chose to get in this before there was money.
1:41:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:41:06
SPEAKER_01: But now you see a lot of people in it because now there is a lot of money.
1:41:10
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:41:11
SPEAKER_03: But there's a reason why that.
1:41:13
SPEAKER_03: Um, and the reason why is because for the deity itself, for our theology, we have to remain, to your word, competitive.
1:41:22
SPEAKER_03: And the only way now we can entice these artists to stay true to ministry versus using their gift to go secular, we gotta pay them the same.
1:41:30
SPEAKER_03: Because if not, what are they gonna do?
1:41:33
SPEAKER_03: They're gonna go pursue secular music because they know there's money in it.
1:41:36
SPEAKER_03: We know that.
1:41:36
SPEAKER_03: Everyone knows secular artists get paid way more than gossip.
1:41:39
SPEAKER_05: Way more.
1:41:40
SPEAKER_03: And so now, instead of just doing it for the sake of the love of the craft, like she said, writing for 15 years and not getting paid for it, ghostwriting and stuff like that.
1:41:48
SPEAKER_03: Like I've ghostwritten on many albums, never got a check.
1:41:50
SPEAKER_03: There was no sync licensing and stuff in that.
1:41:53
SPEAKER_03: I ghostwriter, I'm not, yeah, I ain't gonna put him on blast, but there are some prominent artists.
1:41:56
SPEAKER_03: Those songs, those are my songs.
1:41:59
SPEAKER_03: Right.
1:42:02
SPEAKER_03: But back in the day, that that that whole copyright code shared sync licensing thing wasn't a thing.
1:42:08
SPEAKER_03: So you wrote a song for a friend because he was a friend.
1:42:10
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it was and all of a sudden, yeah, the the the song or the the album goes multi-platinum, and it's like, hey, well, you know, I just I wrote a song, but now everyone, what's in it for me is the the prominent concept, and it's bled into the church.
1:42:24
SPEAKER_03: Like I said, we have this thing with God now.
1:42:26
SPEAKER_03: Go do this.
1:42:27
SPEAKER_03: Well, what's in it for me?
1:42:28
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
1:42:29
SPEAKER_03: Who are you talking to?
1:42:31
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
1:42:31
SPEAKER_05: And the church is that in the Bible, it says it's describes the church as the bride of Christ.
1:42:36
SPEAKER_05: And so again, I don't want people to think that we are just talking about Christ's bride.
1:42:40
SPEAKER_05: We're talking about the people who is operating it, not necessarily what God, you know, is doing in church.
1:42:45
SPEAKER_05: Well, our our perspective from this program is what man has been doing to the church, right?
1:42:50
SPEAKER_01: So, um and given that we've been talking about a lot of hurt in here, I guess the next question is what are we doing to heal it?
1:42:58
SPEAKER_05: Oh, I know that we all still love Jesus.
1:43:01
SPEAKER_05: Yes.
1:43:01
SPEAKER_05: And we all are still church-minded folks, and the the hurt that people do to us isn't necessarily gonna keep us out of the body of Christ.
1:43:10
SPEAKER_05: We're still gonna always, you know, want to be in that, but it does have us think twice about, you know, at least from my perspective, serving or, you know, taking next steps in that direction, at least for a little while.
1:43:22
SPEAKER_05: I mean, until God puts it on my heart or makes different opportunities.
1:43:26
SPEAKER_05: That's not that's not where I'm supposed to be at this moment.
1:43:30
SPEAKER_03: But that's gonna be a step, like even this podcast, it's a step for healing.
1:43:34
SPEAKER_03: Because, like right now, I'm interviewing for a church in Texas right at this moment.
1:43:38
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:43:39
SPEAKER_03: Well, not right this moment, but as we as we're in this season.
1:43:43
SPEAKER_03: And the funny thing is, they wanted to expedite the process.
1:43:46
SPEAKER_03: And I was the one like, no, I need to talk to your pastor first.
1:43:49
SPEAKER_06: Wow.
1:43:49
SPEAKER_06: Okay.
1:43:50
SPEAKER_03: Why?
1:43:50
SPEAKER_03: Because these things happen.
1:43:52
SPEAKER_03: I just educated them.
1:43:53
SPEAKER_03: So even if they don't hire me, I hope that they would think twice about whoever they hire next.
1:43:59
SPEAKER_03: You need to have deeper conversations with people because right now the hurt churches cannot find the hurt musicians that are both good entities and good people.
1:44:10
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
1:44:11
SPEAKER_03: No, the churches that have done the hurting have found the musicians and the vocalists that have done the hurting, and there's this cyclical pattern where they're they're hurting and leaving each other to go find more innocent people to hurt even more.
1:44:24
SPEAKER_05: It's a nice recycle program.
1:44:26
SPEAKER_03: Let's be honest.
1:44:26
SPEAKER_03: Like, there are good churches that have had toxic people too that have torn the church up.
1:44:31
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
1:44:31
SPEAKER_03: There are the musicians that have slept their way through half the church.
1:44:34
SPEAKER_03: Woo! That's a slippery slope.
1:44:39
SPEAKER_03: That's the truth.
1:44:42
SPEAKER_03: The reason why some of the churches are already squeamish about their music programs is because some idiot has gone in there and blown the program up.
1:44:50
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
1:44:51
SPEAKER_03: I get it.
1:44:52
SPEAKER_03: Just don't take it out on me.
1:44:53
SPEAKER_03: The reason why you can't identify is because you threw him or her on the mic or on the keyboard before having the conversation.
1:44:59
SPEAKER_03: Right.
1:44:59
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
1:45:00
SPEAKER_03: It does not take a long time to examine somebody's character in a conversation.
1:45:05
SPEAKER_03: It does not take a long time to examine whether or not they're a good fit within a conversation.
1:45:09
SPEAKER_03: I know that sounds hypocritical because I just left the church that I was there for almost three years and didn't realize it.
1:45:14
SPEAKER_03: But if I look back now and if I honestly say there weren't red flags, I'd be lying to myself.
1:45:19
SPEAKER_06: Wow.
1:45:20
SPEAKER_06: Okay.
1:45:20
SPEAKER_03: But sometimes when you get embedded and invested in, just like we were talking about with politics, then you start to compromise your integrity.
1:45:28
SPEAKER_03: It's like, well, now shoot, I done got a year into this.
1:45:31
SPEAKER_03: I ain't just gonna walk away now.
1:45:32
SPEAKER_03: And it's not just the money.
1:45:33
SPEAKER_03: Sometimes it's like, well, this is where I am.
1:45:36
SPEAKER_03: And you start to make excuses for people that you call fans.
1:45:38
SPEAKER_03: Well, God had me here.
1:45:39
SPEAKER_03: And you know, you know, nobody's perfect.
1:45:42
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you're right, nobody's perfect.
1:45:44
SPEAKER_03: But sometimes those imperfections are not something you need to be exposed to.
1:45:47
SPEAKER_05: Exactly.
1:45:48
SPEAKER_05: That's not, yeah, that's not something that I should have to walk through and cause an unhealthy servitude, you know, with a relationship between, you know, God and I.
1:45:56
SPEAKER_03: Or justify it.
1:45:57
SPEAKER_07: Justify it, yeah.
1:45:58
SPEAKER_04: Exactly.
1:45:59
unknown: Yeah.
1:45:59
SPEAKER_03: And that's the thing.
1:46:00
SPEAKER_03: We've been justifying the imperfections because of our own conditions.
1:46:04
SPEAKER_03: Because this is my check, this is my livelihood, this is where I am.
1:46:08
SPEAKER_03: I don't have a place to go.
1:46:09
SPEAKER_03: My mama told me I had to be in church on Sunday.
1:46:11
SPEAKER_03: And so I'm not gonna sit here and go through another six months.
1:46:14
SPEAKER_03: Right.
1:46:14
SPEAKER_03: I'm not gonna go through another six months trying to find another church because now in my mind, all churches are bad.
1:46:19
SPEAKER_03: So that uh the devil you know is better than the devil you don't.
1:46:22
SPEAKER_03: We've all said that before.
1:46:23
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
1:46:24
SPEAKER_03: And so now we're in this cyclical pattern where the hurt churches have the hurt musicians and the healthy churches and the healthy musicians and uh musicians can't find each other because we're not having these conversations enough.
1:46:40
SPEAKER_03: So I will never apologize for having these conversations publicly because people need to know that not every musician acts this way, not every church behaves in this manner.
1:46:50
SPEAKER_03: There are healthy churches, there are healthy musicians, there are healthy vocalists, there are um some chinks in the armor, there are double standards in the doctrine.
1:46:58
SPEAKER_03: And until we identify that, like we discussed, you can't just identify the leaky faucet and walk away.
1:47:04
SPEAKER_03: You gotta fix it.
1:47:04
SPEAKER_03: Well, I put a bucket underneath it.
1:47:06
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
1:47:06
SPEAKER_03: Well, that bucket's gonna overflow.
1:47:08
SPEAKER_03: The bucket will overflow.
1:47:09
SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
1:47:10
SPEAKER_05: You gotta think of a long-term thing.
1:47:11
SPEAKER_03: And here's the problem that we don't understand in ministry.
1:47:14
SPEAKER_03: When that bucket overflows and it floods the house, it's not just you that suffers.
1:47:19
SPEAKER_03: Everyone in your house now has to make adjustments.
1:47:23
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:47:23
SPEAKER_03: There was once, speaking of, it was a recent church I was a part of.
1:47:27
SPEAKER_03: And unfortunately, um, during a storm, the church flooded, and it came back to some bad decision that they made when they first built the church years ago.
1:47:35
SPEAKER_03: And this happened.
1:47:36
SPEAKER_03: And you know what happened?
1:47:37
SPEAKER_03: They had to cancel service that weekend.
1:47:40
SPEAKER_03: Oh.
1:47:40
SPEAKER_03: It wasn't their fault.
1:47:41
SPEAKER_03: Well, it was their fault, but like, but here's the thing that I'm They built the house on sand and not on a rock.
1:47:46
SPEAKER_03: Here's the issue with that.
1:47:47
SPEAKER_03: Here's the issue because you know me, I'm always ministry-minded when it comes to stuff like this.
1:47:50
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, here's the issue with that.
1:47:52
SPEAKER_03: Now, the first-time visitor, the depressed, the suicidal, the divorced, the addict who was planning to go there that Sunday and meet Jesus now has to make a contingency plan or nothing at all because this has happened.
1:48:05
SPEAKER_05: Bro, I just saw something on Facebook last week.
1:48:10
SPEAKER_05: A smaller, I don't want to get too much into it.
1:48:14
SPEAKER_05: A smaller church that I know on Facebook made a post one hour.
1:48:21
SPEAKER_05: So they start service, let's just say, at 11 o'clock.
1:48:25
SPEAKER_05: They made a post at 10 a.m.
1:48:28
SPEAKER_05: saying too many members out of town this week.
1:48:32
SPEAKER_05: We're not having service this Sunday.
1:48:37
SPEAKER_05: For one, that only applies to the people that is following you on Facebook that sees that message.
1:48:46
SPEAKER_05: For two, again, like you just said, what if God's been putting that church right there across the street from my house on my mind for a while?
1:48:53
SPEAKER_05: I'm waiting for Sunday morning so they can show up, so I can, you know, meet my maker and and you know, give my thoughts to him.
1:49:00
SPEAKER_05: Sunday morning comes around, they didn't even open their doors.
1:49:04
SPEAKER_03: And what am I gonna do as a contingency plan?
1:49:08
SPEAKER_03: Some people, it's the truth.
1:49:09
SPEAKER_03: Some people they walk in and say, God, if you don't do something in this service, I will take matters into my own hands.
1:49:16
SPEAKER_05: Oh, we've seen it.
1:49:17
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
1:49:18
SPEAKER_05: I've I've shared a story in a previous podcast with you about something of that nature.
1:49:23
SPEAKER_05: So uh before we uh clean up and wrap things up, I heard Christine has a very nice, famous story.
1:49:30
SPEAKER_01: I do, yeah.
1:49:32
SPEAKER_05: Reg, you want to help prompt her on it?
1:49:34
SPEAKER_01: Are we talking about Warby Parker?
1:49:35
SPEAKER_05: Oh my lord.
1:49:36
unknown: Yes.
1:49:37
SPEAKER_01: Oh my lord.
1:49:38
SPEAKER_01: So this was the Sunday that he took out the entire praise team, including lots of people you know.
1:49:43
SPEAKER_01: That would be Reggie.
1:49:46
SPEAKER_01: So yes, and I I remember it distinctly because we all got messed up.
1:49:52
SPEAKER_01: Um, and it almost was a hot mess.
1:49:54
SPEAKER_01: So we are we've stepped back.
1:49:57
SPEAKER_01: It's one of those, you know, that they're playing a video.
1:50:00
SPEAKER_07: Oh yeah.
1:50:01
SPEAKER_01: And it was for uh a a women's ministry thing.
1:50:05
SPEAKER_01: And so they're flashing up various people.
1:50:08
SPEAKER_01: And I guess they all had a very similar look to them as far as their eyewear that no one else had really picked up on.
1:50:15
SPEAKER_01: And this is when we mistakenly had, you know, Reggie with the mic over the being the MD.
1:50:19
SPEAKER_01: Because sometimes he would come out with stuff, and I always heard the inappropriate, and he would mess me up.
1:50:24
SPEAKER_01: But at this time, because there was a video playing, there was nothing else.
1:50:28
SPEAKER_01: He wasn't giving notes to anyone else.
1:50:29
SPEAKER_01: There was nothing, there was no track.
1:50:30
SPEAKER_01: So you could all you could hear was the video.
1:50:32
SPEAKER_05: Singers would be walking out and you'd hear Reg say, Do better, do better next time.
1:50:35
SPEAKER_05: I know you can do better.
1:50:36
SPEAKER_05: Do better.
1:50:37
SPEAKER_05: Five, four, three.
1:50:39
SPEAKER_05: I was just gonna say that.
1:50:41
SPEAKER_01: That was gonna be my next thing.
1:50:43
SPEAKER_01: Because he would just look, he'd just say your name, you'd look at it and go.
1:50:46
SPEAKER_05: Forget you, and uh do better next time.
1:50:49
SPEAKER_05: Yep five, four, three.
1:50:50
SPEAKER_01: Next time, oh, we never got was do better.
1:50:53
SPEAKER_01: Oh, we never got was do better.
1:50:54
SPEAKER_01: Two words.
1:50:55
SPEAKER_01: But um, I was gonna make bring that up later too.
1:50:59
SPEAKER_01: You forgot about that.
1:51:00
SPEAKER_01: No, I just said it to somebody the other day.
1:51:01
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, well, you know, like Reggie says, do better.
1:51:03
SPEAKER_01: Do better.
1:51:03
SPEAKER_01: Because I think my husband was there, and so he got the reference.
1:51:05
SPEAKER_01: Anyway, so I guess they all had a very similar look in their eyewear.
1:51:10
SPEAKER_03: And the white background.
1:51:12
SPEAKER_01: Yes, on a white background.
1:51:13
SPEAKER_01: And so out of nowhere, he gets on the mic and says, Why does this video look like a Warby Parker commercial?
1:51:20
SPEAKER_01: Out of nowhere, and everyone can hear him.
1:51:24
SPEAKER_01: So both sides of because you know the praise team is split.
1:51:27
SPEAKER_04: Oh yeah.
1:51:28
SPEAKER_01: We look at each other and lose it, not realizing that his timing, we have about 14 seconds before this video is.
1:51:36
SPEAKER_01: Right.
1:51:36
SPEAKER_01: So that starts.
1:51:38
SPEAKER_01: We're supposed to be walking.
1:51:39
SPEAKER_01: So we're stumbling over ourselves and laughing, going, pull the tailbone, the lights come up, pull the tailbone, the lights come up.
1:51:47
SPEAKER_01: So after the service, we were like, bruh.
1:51:52
SPEAKER_01: You almost destroyed us.
1:51:54
SPEAKER_01: Like you can't.
1:51:55
SPEAKER_01: And it wasn't something where like one person was gonna be leading.
1:51:58
SPEAKER_01: That's we were all coming in at the same time, and we were all messed up.
1:52:01
SPEAKER_01: Like some some words got messed up at the beginning, and and no one really, I don't think a lot of people noticed it.
1:52:08
SPEAKER_05: But we were raggedy.
1:52:09
SPEAKER_05: That's a behind-the-scenes thing, but we're we were raggedy through that whole song.
1:52:13
SPEAKER_01: We got done, we were like, you know what, we're gonna have to have a conversation with Reginald.
1:52:16
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that conversation was had that day.
1:52:17
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's like look, the worship pastor.
1:52:19
SPEAKER_03: He, I think he walked right over to me.
1:52:20
SPEAKER_03: He was like, dude.
1:52:22
SPEAKER_03: And in my defense, it was not intentional.
1:52:25
SPEAKER_03: It was because I was messing with the the multi-tracks to get it lined up for the third song.
1:52:31
SPEAKER_03: And I wasn't paying attention to the video because that's where my attention was.
1:52:34
SPEAKER_05: So it was like the first time you actually saw it?
1:52:36
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:52:36
SPEAKER_03: And so when I looked up, I saw it, and it was just the first thought that came to my mind.
1:52:40
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:52:40
SPEAKER_05: So you had to share it, yeah.
1:52:41
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:52:41
SPEAKER_03: And so, right.
1:52:42
SPEAKER_03: I had yeah, because I share.
1:52:44
SPEAKER_03: Clearly, I share with someone.
1:52:46
SPEAKER_01: Why does that video like a Warpy Parker commercial?
1:52:48
SPEAKER_03: I was like, first thing I looked up.
1:52:51
SPEAKER_03: I could have said it probably two minutes into the video if I was paying attention, but I wasn't.
1:52:55
SPEAKER_01: I was that would have given us some time to pull ourselves together.
1:52:57
SPEAKER_01: Because what one, it was the comment itself, but two, it was the timing.
1:53:01
SPEAKER_01: We did not have enough time to pull it together.
1:53:03
SPEAKER_01: We were still laughing and we heard intro to it.
1:53:06
SPEAKER_01: Two, three.
1:53:07
SPEAKER_01: So we had to haul to get up there, and it was like, oh Lord.
1:53:12
SPEAKER_03: It was an innocent comment because I was.
1:53:14
SPEAKER_03: I was fooling with Ableton trying to get everything, and you know where we were, yeah, the lighting cues and everything were all embedded in the Ableton track.
1:53:21
SPEAKER_03: So I had to get it lined up, and I just wasn't paying attention to the live video.
1:53:25
SPEAKER_03: I looked up, I was like, hey.
1:53:27
SPEAKER_03: And uh I I paid no attention to the fact that it would have impact on the team as they were walking.
1:53:35
SPEAKER_01: He wasted the entire prize team.
1:53:37
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
1:53:37
SPEAKER_03: I broke the team.
1:53:38
SPEAKER_01: Everybody.
1:53:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was hilarious.
1:53:41
SPEAKER_01: And and some of the people that were up there are not the types that would respond to things like that.
1:53:45
SPEAKER_01: And they were that's true.
1:53:47
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, they gotta have it all perfect and cookies.
1:53:50
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, and even they lost it.
1:53:52
SPEAKER_01: Even this the one person I'm thinking about, I'll say the name offline.
1:53:56
SPEAKER_01: Um she lost it.
1:53:59
SPEAKER_06: That's nuts.
1:54:00
SPEAKER_01: He yeah, he he messed up.
1:54:02
SPEAKER_05: You gotta have it together though.
1:54:03
SPEAKER_03: You're supposed to be instant in season and out of season, so I think after that moment, um, whoever got on the team was instantly told, when he's here, be prepared.
1:54:15
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:54:16
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, because shenanigans will ensue.
1:54:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that was me and a couple of other leaders.
1:54:22
SPEAKER_01: A couple other volunteer leaders were like, okay, look, but this one, like it'll get done, you will get the cues you're not used to having.
1:54:29
SPEAKER_01: So, because some people used to tune.
1:54:31
SPEAKER_01: No, no, I mean the good stuff.
1:54:33
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, exactly.
1:54:34
SPEAKER_01: I mean, because a lot of people who are used to singing, being a vocalist, are used to tuning out the MD because they only give band notes.
1:54:42
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:54:42
SPEAKER_01: So it's like you need to pay attention because he actually will give you what you need.
1:54:46
SPEAKER_01: I will have you right.
1:54:47
SPEAKER_01: If you're worried, he did.
1:54:48
SPEAKER_01: But the downside is you will also hear some shenanigans.
1:54:51
SPEAKER_01: So if you're the type that easily giggles, right, he's not going to help.
1:54:55
SPEAKER_01: So just prepare because he's gonna this some foolery is coming.
1:54:58
SPEAKER_01: I think the word I use is foolery.
1:54:59
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, some foolery is coming.
1:55:01
SPEAKER_01: So just just be prepared.
1:55:03
SPEAKER_01: And yes, le there uh yeah, volunteer leaders used to make the teams aware when I'm okay.
1:55:08
SPEAKER_01: Look, this right here is gonna be some foolery.
1:55:11
SPEAKER_01: You're gonna get the notes you need, it'll be great.
1:55:14
SPEAKER_01: But you're also gonna hear something that's gonna make you laugh.
1:55:17
SPEAKER_01: You're gonna you're gonna get a little something extra you can pay for.
1:55:20
SPEAKER_01: A little entertainment for your trouble.
1:55:22
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
1:55:22
SPEAKER_01: Which is fair.
1:55:22
SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know.
1:55:23
SPEAKER_05: No, he's not doing that.
1:55:24
SPEAKER_05: He's playing like Jurassic Park or Spider-Man or something under underneath the keys.
1:55:27
SPEAKER_05: Oh my god, the amount of time to you to find out what it is.
1:55:30
SPEAKER_01: Oh my god, the amount of times me and someone else would make the look like, did he just is that the Lion King?
1:55:36
SPEAKER_05: And pastor's praying.
1:55:38
SPEAKER_05: I think he did that one time.
1:55:39
SPEAKER_05: He did.
1:55:40
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
1:55:41
SPEAKER_01: It was the Jurassic Park, though, that all the time.
1:55:43
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's that the pastor caught.
1:55:45
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's he's like, well, this sounded good, but because he walked up going, is that?
1:55:50
SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
1:55:50
SPEAKER_01: That's what he did.
1:55:51
SPEAKER_01: That's your friend.
1:55:52
SPEAKER_01: Go over there and talk to him.
1:55:53
SPEAKER_01: Don't come over here.
1:55:54
SPEAKER_03: The pastor of the church we was at, I he did bust me once.
1:55:57
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, he busted me.
1:55:57
SPEAKER_03: He was like, Is that Usher?
1:55:59
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
1:55:59
SPEAKER_01: I was like, Whoops.
1:56:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, if it's some RB, he's gonna know that.
1:56:03
SPEAKER_05: How's the pastor know that?
1:56:06
SPEAKER_01: He had a before Jesus time channel.
1:56:08
SPEAKER_03: He said it though.
1:56:09
SPEAKER_03: He was like, Don't sit here and judge me like y'all got uh like just Christian music on your raid.
1:56:14
SPEAKER_03: He's like, if I go to your car right now, what's playing on your raid?
1:56:16
SPEAKER_03: It got real quiet.
1:56:17
SPEAKER_03: Right.
1:56:17
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
1:56:18
SPEAKER_05: No, that's true.
1:56:19
SPEAKER_05: That's true stuff.
1:56:20
SPEAKER_05: Before we uh go, uh, did we uh did we cover everything?
1:56:24
SPEAKER_05: Does anybody have anything they want to hit before we take on out of here?
1:56:28
SPEAKER_05: Dive on out, drive out of this place?
1:56:30
SPEAKER_01: No, I think we we ran the gamut of the conversation, um, and then some.
1:56:36
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it was a good good discussion about church hurt, disparity.
1:56:44
SPEAKER_01: But then also it came back to because I don't know that I thought about that when we all sat down.
1:56:50
SPEAKER_01: Because while we do all kind of crossover into each other's groups, we do in a sense represent three different groups on the same in the same program.
1:56:59
SPEAKER_01: We have a vocalist and a musician, a vocalist, and then um an engineer.
1:57:04
SPEAKER_01: So I think I didn't think about that until we started.
1:57:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that part too.
1:57:08
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:57:09
SPEAKER_01: Um I call him pastor all the time, but I forgot about that.
1:57:12
SPEAKER_01: Past.
1:57:13
SPEAKER_01: But you know, we have all these different roles sitting in this room, and so it's not bishop.
1:57:17
SPEAKER_01: I feel like we used to call him that, and then he gave that to my spouse for some reason.
1:57:22
SPEAKER_01: Um called him that first.
1:57:25
SPEAKER_01: No, it was you.
1:57:26
SPEAKER_01: Oh it was absolutely you.
1:57:27
SPEAKER_01: I would have never called him that.
1:57:29
SPEAKER_01: Um but it's stuck, and now it's stuck.
1:57:31
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, so I just I love the idea of all those roles being represented in this space.
1:57:36
SPEAKER_01: And I don't know that I thought about that until we started talking.
1:57:38
SPEAKER_01: Um, so the perspective was broad.
1:57:40
SPEAKER_01: I kind of like that.
1:57:41
SPEAKER_05: Oh, definitely.
1:57:42
SPEAKER_05: It wasn't just three singers just airing it out, yeah.
1:57:44
SPEAKER_01: A little bit of everything.
1:57:46
SPEAKER_05: All right.
1:57:47
SPEAKER_01: So thank you both.
1:57:48
SPEAKER_05: Reg, we're gonna miss you.
1:57:49
SPEAKER_05: You're you're taking off to Texas.
1:57:51
SPEAKER_05: I hope you represent Arizona very well over there.
1:57:54
SPEAKER_05: I'm in denial.
1:57:55
SPEAKER_05: Don't forget about us.
1:57:57
SPEAKER_05: We're gonna be following you on the IGs.
1:57:59
SPEAKER_05: Whenever you come to Phoenix, don't ghost us like you know, them them other people.
1:58:04
SPEAKER_05: No, you guys alike.
1:58:06
SPEAKER_05: Sweet.
1:58:07
SPEAKER_05: We're gonna have a big party next week.
1:58:10
SPEAKER_05: Oh yeah.
1:58:11
SPEAKER_05: You rented out the whole arena.
1:58:13
SPEAKER_05: Like, I've never been to a going-away party at an arena before.
1:58:16
SPEAKER_03: That's funny.
1:58:17
SPEAKER_03: I don't really know the details, if I'm honest.
1:58:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, if you can see that that's not from him.
1:58:21
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I know.
1:58:22
SPEAKER_05: He's not even the planner.
1:58:23
SPEAKER_05: He just has to show up.
1:58:24
SPEAKER_01: Well, he shouldn't be.
1:58:25
SPEAKER_01: Well, one, he shouldn't be the planner, and then you know, if he showed up, he's still gonna be 20 minutes late.
1:58:31
SPEAKER_01: Probably.
1:58:32
SPEAKER_03: I will if my wife's involved, it's gonna be way later than that.
1:58:36
SPEAKER_03: Wow.
1:58:36
SPEAKER_03: He was actually on time today.
1:58:39
SPEAKER_03: I was.
1:58:39
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:58:40
SPEAKER_00: Look at you.
1:58:41
SPEAKER_03: I was actually early.
1:58:42
SPEAKER_03: Um when I got here early, I went to the liquor store on the corner.
1:58:45
SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay.
1:58:46
SPEAKER_03: What we do at the liquor store before the podcast.
1:58:48
SPEAKER_03: I got Fritos.
1:58:49
SPEAKER_01: He got some chili chili Fritos.
1:58:50
SPEAKER_01: I see them right here.
1:58:51
SPEAKER_04: Okay, okay.
1:58:52
SPEAKER_04: I just didn't know.
1:58:53
SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, you should have said the convenience store.
1:58:55
SPEAKER_05: I was just thinking that.
1:58:56
SPEAKER_05: I didn't know what kind of celebration podcast we're having.
1:58:59
SPEAKER_05: Like, sorry.
1:59:00
SPEAKER_05: I should have prepared better.
1:59:03
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I you really just said the look us go after we called to a pastor not five minutes ago.
1:59:07
SPEAKER_01: Anyway, no one's perfect.
1:59:08
SPEAKER_01: Keep moving.
1:59:09
SPEAKER_05: It's the area we're in.
1:59:13
SPEAKER_05: Fair enough.
1:59:14
SPEAKER_05: Well, folks, that's a wrap on episode 38.
1:59:17
SPEAKER_05: That escalated quickly.
1:59:19
SPEAKER_05: I sure did.
1:59:21
SPEAKER_05: Big thanks to Christine over there.
1:59:24
SPEAKER_05: Hi.
1:59:25
SPEAKER_05: Reg for joining us.
1:59:27
SPEAKER_05: Don't forget.
1:59:29
SPEAKER_05: What am I supposed to say?
1:59:33
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, good luck reading Red with it.
1:59:34
SPEAKER_05: Don't forget, Reg will be back for episode 42 this September, so stay tuned.
1:59:40
SPEAKER_05: Oh, you got Unread now.
1:59:44
SPEAKER_05: Thanks.
1:59:45
SPEAKER_05: You can find Unfit for Radio with Jake on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, and wherever you get your podcast.
1:59:54
SPEAKER_05: If you're enjoying the show, please leave a review.
1:59:56
SPEAKER_05: It helps other people find the podcast.
2:00:04
SPEAKER_05: If you like to help support the show, visit unfitforradio.busbroute.com and click the donation link.
2:00:10
SPEAKER_05: See, I told you guys it'd be there.
2:00:13
SPEAKER_05: Got a question, comment, suggestion, or a guest recommendation.
2:00:16
SPEAKER_05: Email us at unfitforradio show at gmail.com or text six zero two seven six seven.
2:00:22
SPEAKER_05: See find it there.
2:00:23
SPEAKER_05: 3390.
2:00:25
SPEAKER_05: And we may feature it on a future episode.
2:00:30
SPEAKER_05: Follow the show on Instagram, Unfit for Radio Credits of this episode belong to executive producer Jakers, recorded by Jakers producers.
2:00:38
SPEAKER_05: Reggie Holmes and Christine.
2:00:41
SPEAKER_05: Unfit uh Unfit for Wicked Music and Masteries by Ronel Jones on Instagram at Ronnie Cash Life.
2:00:48
SPEAKER_05: Remember, if you can't find the good, then be the good.
2:00:50
SPEAKER_05: Reg, ready to go! Peace! Shiny battery!
2:01:01
SPEAKER_01: Bathroom! Yes! You should leave that! Oh my god, if you can hear that, please leave it.