Latest / The Christian Reeve Podcast / MJDorian | The Christian Reeve Podcast | #128 |

Transcript

MJDorian | The Christian Reeve Podcast | #128 | · The Christian Reeve Podcast

0:01
Hello and welcome to another episode of the Christian Reef
0:03
podcast. Today's guest is a podcast
0:06
creator of visual artists and award-winning composer all the
0:09
way from New York City. His name is MJ Dorian, welcome
0:13
to the show. How you doing?
0:15
Hey, good morning. Good afternoon question pleasure
0:18
to be here. Thank you for having me.
0:20
Thank you. Thank you, thank you.
0:22
I've been looking forward to this one for a while and for
0:26
those who don't know, I plan all this stuff way in advance.
0:29
So when I So went through my research notes again, I was like
0:33
oh yeah I remember this. This is going to be good.
0:35
This is going to be good. I mean no I mean to be fair like
0:39
every episode for me is always good in so much as like it's
0:43
always different and I don't know, but I guess I always try
0:47
to aim as much as possible to get my guests feeling
0:51
comfortable enough to have a discussion you know, and it's
0:54
like I was talking to a guest recently perspective guest and I
1:00
Reached out to them and said, hey, I'd love to have you on the
1:01
show, but I'm a well and the first thing he turned around to
1:05
me and said, oh oh, I'd be boring though.
1:08
And I was like, this is nonsense.
1:10
Everyone has a story to tell stories to tell, and I think
1:17
largely, in what we do is, as, you know, creative Endeavors.
1:22
That's just a way of exploring that and kind of figuring out
1:25
the best ways to share those stories, or experiences, or The
1:30
case may be, you know, and when you first begin doing these
1:34
things, you know, it's a bit ropey when I first started doing
1:38
podcasting and videos and stuff like that, I wasn't confident
1:42
right at all. It was a mess.
1:44
But here we are years later. And it's much more, you know
1:48
where it needs to be. But yeah, let's just dive right
1:53
into it. Is there a story behind your
1:56
name? Because I know this is kind of I
1:57
don't a quick look at that stage name but It's the main.
2:00
Yeah, I online. But is there a story behind?
2:04
It's an alias if you will. Yeah, it was one of those
2:11
things. I think I picked it up as a
2:12
teenager like a little moniker because early on I always had
2:17
the interest in performing specifically writing music and
2:23
it was called Always I was balancing between those two
2:26
lines of sticking with my incredibly 110%, polish birth
2:32
name, which no one ever pronounced correctly, and always
2:37
misspelled to potentially entertaining, the idea of an
2:41
alias or moniker. And it kind of came from that,
2:45
you know, MJ Dorian. Those are mjo the two initials
2:48
of my first name and Dorian, is the name of a musical scale that
2:52
I happen to be grooving with at the time.
2:55
And there's also interesting associations, you know, the
2:58
Dorian Gray, whatever, whatever, you know, So all those other
3:01
interesting kind of like subtle hints of mystery associations,
3:04
so I ran with it, and to this day, you know, since I've been
3:08
using it for a number of years people, I know who have become
3:11
friends with me after I started using it in projects.
3:14
Call me Dorian. And I'm justifying, that's fine.
3:17
I'll take it. That's a cool name.
3:19
I always love to ask my guests the musicians this because it's,
3:23
I don't know. I feel like they're, you know,
3:26
it's like the old adage, you know, what's in a name?
3:28
Well, there's a lot in the name, I think.
3:30
Type. Sometimes it can be just all.
3:31
We just pick this out of nowhere, but I feel like a lot
3:33
of the time there is a story and I like, how the stories are
3:39
often either outlandish, or they can be something as simple as
3:43
what you outlined. But there's like, I don't know,
3:46
it's like clever like this, there's a little How can I put
3:50
this? It's like an expression of that
3:54
person, like, a little personal reflection of that person kept
3:57
within that because there's a musician or.
3:59
Yes, oh God, please no. Yeah, sorry to interrupt you.
4:03
I just get excited. Sometimes, the idea of the idea
4:08
of an alias, also, it came about as like I'll stick to this one
4:13
because I really like the idea of having, I guess, a Persona in
4:19
the sense, you know, you have your some of the psychology have
4:22
your Actual Persona that you have you walk around with.
4:25
But then there's also this this Persona, this character, this
4:28
thing, you can create, then give it to the world and also behaved
4:32
through it and create through it.
4:35
And that is always fascinated me.
4:37
So, there was no doubt that, you know, if I was doing things that
4:40
were going to be in the public eye in the public sphere, that
4:43
was an attractive idea to me, because it would allow me to
4:46
pursue, like, there's art, I do or music, I do that's really
4:49
dark and strange and, you know, on the side, my my Job is my day
4:54
job is teaching like everyone from kids to adults, you know
4:56
music. And if I'm if there's like some
4:59
parent that looks my name up and they see me doing some kind of
5:02
like borderline erotica are like I don't want this pervert
5:05
teaching my kids, you know Is this, you know, this, this point
5:10
you raised is interested. I've been thinking about this
5:12
recently as well. Like I said to someone recently,
5:16
I've received a lot of comments, sort of regarding or just
5:20
general feedback from people, you know, fans people
5:22
appreciating, whatever the case may be.
5:25
And I remember I responded by saying, well, this isn't real
5:28
life. This is online life, this is,
5:31
and as you kind of highlighted there, It's like two different
5:35
lives, like for me, creativity and everything that we do online
5:41
is one life and then there's the life of you the individual,
5:45
like, you know, you the father, you the husband Etc.
5:48
Like, it's a different person. It's still an extension of you,
5:51
but it's like two very distinct personalities, which are both
5:55
part of a whole, But ultimately are distinct.
5:59
And I think, like, every one of us has that, you know,
6:01
obviously, kind of stating the obvious here but, As roles, you
6:04
know, the teacher, the manager, father, whatever.
6:09
Like it's and with each of those cons certain expectations, and
6:15
it's like, for example, you as a teacher, right?
6:19
They'll always be like, professional boundaries that you
6:21
know, that, you know, you can't get too friendly with someone
6:24
because of that professional boundary.
6:26
And, you know, I've been in that situation many many times where
6:29
I always keep it, strictly professional, I sort of, I never
6:33
get too friendly. People in the workplace because
6:35
I don't feel it's appropriate. And I also believe in that
6:38
concept of maintaining professional relations with
6:41
people. Because as soon as you get
6:43
personal feelings involved, or even a sort of Rapport where
6:48
you're just friends, it almost eliminates the role that you
6:52
have an extended everything, you know, like being a father, like
6:56
you've got a always kind of maintain the same level that you
7:01
can't. Cuddle up break down in front of
7:05
your kid kind of thing. You know you know as hard as
7:07
that sounds. I know it's easier said than
7:08
done but like oh no you know, you certainly can I've seen it.
7:11
Yeah, ditto for 100% you know, when I was growing up like my
7:16
mom had like difficult times as well and we got through it
7:19
together but like I was amazed at like how many things that she
7:22
kept from me? That I had no idea.
7:23
Sure. Yeah.
7:24
And I was like yeah. That that speaks a lot to
7:27
maintaining the role successfully I guess right?
7:33
Yes. Well as as creatives, like you
7:36
and I are and also as zero experience in acting, I'm sure
7:40
reaffirms we become especially as soon to seeing those roles
7:45
and seeing that everybody is performing right in almost every
7:51
facet of their life, except when the door is closed and they're
7:55
in their Solitude and they're at their computer, or whatever
7:59
they're doing, kind of, let's something else.
8:03
Out. But then there's also the
8:04
question of, you know, what is that?
8:06
But definitely I think as creatives we see the not not,
8:11
not like that, that is false or anything, but we see the
8:14
function of that that serves, right?
8:16
And that there is there is there's an air of performance to
8:19
it. I completely agree.
8:22
Yeah. You what you're saying about how
8:24
its It's almost folks like I think about myself doing a
8:29
podcast, doing a livestream, doing the video like and I've
8:33
said this to my audience like I'm very transparent, I try to
8:36
be as authentic as I possibly can but I can never really truly
8:40
show the exactly how I am for two reasons.
8:43
One, it would be boring because you get what?
8:47
I know. But, you know what I mean?
8:48
Like, you Jen. Okay.
8:49
You want to Stage talking about your work is not the same as you
8:53
at the dinner table. Just chilling.
8:56
Into your family. It's a different, it's different
8:59
and it's very difficult to show that element of you.
9:05
Unless, I guess maybe you do look a documentary about your
9:08
life, but even there, like, you want to show you the best, you
9:10
don't want to show the worst, you know, difficult to show like
9:15
the real you and also just sort of reiterating what we were
9:20
saying before. As you said, like it's you're
9:22
always performing like Shakespeare said, you know, the
9:24
world stage and It's true. Like it's almost an expectation
9:29
from society that you have to be like that and if you don't sort
9:32
of work within those frames of reference or how to put this
9:37
exactly. If you don't perform that role
9:39
properly, then you get judged for that or your or your, I
9:43
don't know fired. If you're doing a job or
9:45
whatever the case may be like its it has to fit within that
9:48
role or otherwise you're not doing it properly, kind of
9:50
thing. Yeah, yeah.
9:51
Like that reminds me. It's it relates to YouTube since
9:54
we're talking so Your media stuff but it reminds me of this
9:59
video. I'm so probably a year or two
10:01
ago there was this YouTuber who kind of was like all YouTubers
10:06
trying to be famous. She was running this some kind
10:08
of like dog training Channel or something and she uploaded a
10:12
video before she fully completed editing, it must have been
10:15
rushing it or something. And there was a portion of her
10:18
like showing how she you know, straining this because a
10:21
Doberman Pinscher something and towards the end there was B that
10:25
she had an edited It out and it was her like borderline abusing
10:30
the animal like yelling at it. I remember sitting at its face
10:33
and like like hitting it or something and then she exploded
10:38
like that's what she wanted, she wanted the fame.
10:40
The goal was the same but I think the reason that people
10:44
became so I mean I watched it like a few times because I think
10:48
what you're engaged by there is something what we're talking
10:50
about which is this painful contrast between the real person
10:54
and the person at their Right. Hmm.
10:57
To to, you know, you're right? Yeah, I mean, that's, that's the
11:00
extreme example from the other side.
11:02
So the real you coming out and then you sort of everyone
11:06
discovers, oh, actually, this person's bit of an asshole.
11:08
Like, I don't want to support this.
11:10
That's almost worse. I think it's one thing to be
11:14
Prince barin and say, hey, you're never going to see
11:16
everything of me. You're going to see right
11:19
everything I show you but I'll always be transparent and
11:21
honest. That's one thing versus yeah,
11:24
you discovers I mean, It's Tricky, isn't it?
11:27
There's people that live their entire lives in the professional
11:31
spheres, and you think they're one way, but then there are
11:33
totally different. And then, there's the argument
11:35
of which, I think I'd love to get your thoughts on this.
11:40
Being able to separate the art from the artist.
11:44
This is so, you know what I mean?
11:46
Like to give an example, the professional wrestler, Chris
11:51
Benoit, he, you know, had a complete body of work in
11:55
professional wrestling with Very, very passionate about his
11:57
work. And you know many, many would
12:01
argue that he sacrificed his life for his art, not as in the
12:08
end. But in general, like, throughout
12:09
his life, you know, wrestling came first and everything else
12:12
comes second anyway, I won't go into details but his life ended
12:17
horribly and writes tragic. Yeah, I think it's a suicide,
12:20
right? You don't like suicide homicide.
12:22
Double murder suicide. Was the official Airline and
12:26
and, Many people still not support him per se, but I like,
12:33
you know, appreciative is obvious work and want to
12:35
remember the good times and I understand, but, you know, I
12:38
remember being 14 years old, 15 years old, when I heard the news
12:44
and I was disgusted are confused.
12:50
I remember ripping up the T-shirt I had Oh, really?
12:54
Yeah, burning it. I was so angry and as I just
12:58
didn't understand how someone could do something so cruel.
13:02
Yeah. But then I had people say to me
13:04
just going back to the point. Well can't you separate the art
13:07
from the artist? Because I know some people can
13:09
and it makes me wonder because I don't judge people that still
13:12
listen to those things. I mean there's people that still
13:15
listen to Gary Glitter for fuck sake.
13:17
Like think his song is like trending on Tick-Tock and I'm
13:22
like, what this But that's the thing, like the art is a thing,
13:29
whereas the person performing it is obviously always up for
13:35
scrutiny and judgment excetera but like if you just look at the
13:40
body of work and nothing else, like I suppose it can still be
13:43
appreciated but it's like I supposed to be the problem is
13:46
you don't want to support them that you want to enjoy the art
13:50
and Revere the art but you don't want to by doing.
13:52
So it's almost like you're inadvertently supporting the
13:55
artist and that's kind of what I think where the Dilemma is
13:57
sometimes, right? Yeah.
14:00
I mean, I think there's a definitely a lot to unpack
14:02
there. Like you said, I think part of
14:05
the delineation is actually whether the viewer, the audience
14:10
member is technically proficient, in the thing that
14:15
they're they're engaging with or interacting.
14:18
So like if I'm idolizing For lack of a better example.
14:24
If I'm idolizing Marilyn Manson or something right?
14:27
And which I was a teenager, I certainly listen to him in such
14:31
he's been in recent controversies and rightfully so
14:33
those things should come out but I guess public life private.
14:37
So if I'm idolizing Marilyn Manson and I'm not a musician,
14:41
I'm just, I'm engaged by the spectacle, right?
14:46
That's one thing. I'm engaged by the the tone of
14:48
the music, the lyrics, the lyrics, and the topic And
14:51
subject matter and the crazy videos.
14:54
And then I think I'm projecting things onto him as well.
14:57
Like, you know, there's there's a dark aspect that not many
15:00
other musicians are focusing on. And so I dig that and then I
15:07
then I do want to know about his private life, right?
15:09
Because then then it's like you've I guessed grabbed all you
15:14
can from what they're giving you and then you want to also be
15:18
able to see it in the context of who they are.
15:22
Like if I'm studying Vincent van Gogh you know I would I knew
15:26
Vincent Van Gogh's paintings you know going through high school I
15:28
went to an Arts High School in Arkansas.
15:30
Did art history class not stuff. I knew you know I saw his
15:33
paintings let's say in the Metropolitan Museum of Art when
15:35
I would visit is it in such because they have a they have a
15:37
steady permanent collection there and I was like okay you
15:41
know those one in one of his paintings.
15:42
I really enjoyed but beyond that his other ones meant nothing to
15:45
me aesthetically. I could appreciate them but also
15:49
they just wasn't my favorite artists.
15:51
And then recently within this last year, I did a series about
15:55
Vincent van Gogh is like a four-episode long series of the
15:57
biggest one I've ever done. It's like five hours of, you
16:00
know, content and months of research.
16:02
And all of that research was really understanding where he
16:04
came from was personal life. Was, you know what a story is?
16:08
And now I visit a Vincent van Gogh painting in the
16:12
Metropolitan Museum of Art, and I cry, I stand before and I cry
16:17
and that emotional reaction is because of all that extra
16:23
information, I have about him, right?
16:25
It's those connections, that I make that, I see this work of
16:27
art, I know that, you know, he was in the mental Asylum while
16:31
he was painting this during a break that he was allowed to
16:34
have in the garden. And I know that within a year,
16:38
he's going to shoot himself. And without that context, the
16:41
art is is just a static, I can appreciate it.
16:44
I think as an artist whose painted and I can say, you know,
16:47
that is, that's a very clever thing he did with the colors,
16:50
but then all at under information in riches my
16:52
experience. Yeah, no, I totally agree with
16:55
that point, actually. I mean, it's this applies to all
16:58
different art, especially music. If you know the concept of how
17:01
and when a song was created and what that person was going
17:04
through and stuff like, Occasionally people ask me that
17:07
about the music that I write and a lot of the time I'm just like
17:11
why does it matter? Like it's just the song but
17:13
then, yeah. I mean, I don't begrudge them
17:16
that I think there is a lot of Truth to that and you know, I
17:18
wasn't going to mention him but yeah, you brought him up man and
17:20
man's. I think that's a really good
17:22
example because not only did he create music.
17:26
That was sort of very let's say generation-defining at one point
17:32
and don't get me wrong, he wasn't the only person in that
17:35
sort of industrial. Kind of movement, but he was
17:37
definitely arguably, like a spearhead in it.
17:42
And with that, what a lot of what he did was was Art, is in
17:48
as much as like the, you know, the stage presence and the
17:54
costumes. And I think, I think, in a way
17:58
he did a lot for like, lgbtq as well.
18:02
Hmm. So the only for people who self,
18:06
As the local freaks of their fans.
18:08
Yeah, yeah. Like he was he was very much
18:10
speaking to that and it's it's difficult, then with all this
18:13
information that's come out in recent years because we now live
18:19
in an age where Like people kind of get buried for the and they
18:24
could be wrong with someone like that.
18:25
I understand, you know, I don't think it's right to support them
18:29
anymore when you find out this these facts about their lives
18:32
that you don't want to, you know, keep supporting them
18:37
financially. And even if you're still
18:40
listening to them and consuming their art, you could, you can
18:42
make a case for like all this is still supporting them.
18:44
Maybe it's not right and stuff. But then I go back to our
18:47
previous point about separating art from the artists, like, does
18:51
it? You deserve to be completely
18:52
eradicated. I don't know how you can make
18:57
Arguments for and against on that, but In this in this age,
19:04
like sometimes I wonder about say, cancel culture is an
19:07
example. I hear.
19:11
Things about all sorts of different artists classic
19:14
artists that 20th century artists.
19:16
And I wonder like, well, none of us are perfect though, you know,
19:20
like it's different if you're talking about essay and stuff, I
19:23
get that but like We all make mistakes and we can all and we
19:28
all have to own up to them and take responsibility for them.
19:32
I mean, that's adult life, that's what being an adult is,
19:35
you know, and you but you move on, but a lot of what is going
19:38
on now is that you people held being held accountable for
19:41
things they did or said many, many, many years ago in a
19:44
different Lifetime, and it's like you change a lot in 5
19:47
years, 10 years, 15 years. You're not the same.
19:50
Some people do some people, don't ya?
19:52
Some people do. Some people don't have the
19:53
problem, right? Yeah.
19:54
This is no. Oh, you're a hundred percent,
19:56
right? But it's it's difficult for me
19:58
like take the James Gunn thing where he made a tweet in 2010 or
20:04
something and you know, he held his hand up.
20:07
He said, hey, I'm sorry, this was wrong, I was a different
20:11
person, then excetera and a lot of people called for him to be
20:14
fired and everything and he was, and then he was reinstated.
20:18
And then it was brought back, it took a while, but was reinstated
20:21
and I Look to that in two ways I looked at it.
20:25
Like should a person be held accountable for what they've
20:27
done in the past? Yes.
20:30
But should they be punished forever?
20:32
Like completely like their career destroyed everything?
20:36
I don't know. I maybe it depends on what
20:38
they've done. I don't know, none of this
20:41
really seems like and why there's so many shitty very and
20:45
yeah, I know, it's a beautiful gray area that as artists.
20:48
I think we really really enjoyed those gray areas but like, I
20:52
think, It calls to mind in my mind, the, the symbol of Justice
20:57
specifically, the scales of Justice, right?
21:00
So it's basically an ear, ancient symbol of those
21:04
traditional scales. And I think what even in this
21:08
context, when somebody when something is revealed about
21:11
someone, that's incredibly distasteful and borderline, you
21:13
know, criminal suddenly those scales group and were like,
21:18
whoa, like it's an, it's an imperceptible unconscious thing.
21:22
We expect that. Well, now, this balance has to
21:25
somehow be righted, right? We have to do, they have a debt
21:28
to pay us back, or it's a basis, Aya tea bag because they've
21:32
broken the functional rules that we all abide by, right?
21:36
So as a group, okay, you know what other course of action do
21:39
we have? And I'm not saying that
21:41
canceling, someone for life is the course of action that works.
21:45
I'm just like, I think that that there's something really
21:48
interesting there. I think happening.
21:50
Universally in our psychology which is like, okay, something
21:55
has to happen. Because they just broke the
21:57
rules that all of us abide by, right?
21:59
And and that imbalance, I think that's very interesting that we
22:03
don't, we don't agree on it. Just happens to all of us, you
22:06
know, when I found out about the fucking sorry to curse about
22:09
like what Bill Cosby was up to all those years in my mind, I
22:14
was like, what the hell? Like New York.
22:16
He'll never be able to play anything and she'll G's
22:19
ostracized from society. Forever.
22:21
Because that's the price yesterday, right?
22:23
No, I agree. And there's a couple of things.
22:25
I just wanted to dress like the changing of perception of
22:29
someone completely agree. I mean, I wasn't big on pill
22:33
Cosby's career because he's a bit before my time, but I
22:36
remember he was he played a real beloved character in a beloved
22:39
film that I enjoyed as a kid called Jack to Robin Williams.
22:43
Come, and he plays like a teacher in it or something and
22:47
he's like it's incredible acting and everything.
22:51
And now I just can't watch it in the same way like it just feels
22:55
icky kind of, you know, it's difficult.
22:58
And also one thing I want to say about cancel culture, just on
23:02
topic, like I almost get the impression that with cancel
23:07
culture. It's like if you apologize. a
23:12
lot of the time your apology is not sort of forgiving like
23:16
you're as you said before ostracized for life and it's
23:20
like, I do kind of Billy. I do believe in second chances.
23:25
I do believe that like, you should be forgiven for making
23:27
mistakes because that's we're emotional beings that we're not
23:32
perfect. We make these mistakes.
23:33
And, you know, I've made some mistakes in my life in recently
23:38
in the last couple of weeks last month, and it caused me to
23:41
re-evaluate myself and where I thought I was at and, you know,
23:45
made me realize probably the biggest thing that I have a lot
23:49
of learning to do and a lot of growing up.
23:52
Maturity, you know, and I was so sure, like, oh, I've really made
23:56
so much progress, and, and I have, but right the journey
23:59
never ends it keeps going and you should always be
24:02
introspective and looking at yourself and seeing like, how
24:05
can I improve myself? How can I be better?
24:07
How can I be better than what I am?
24:09
Like, I almost I almost, I must always be better than I am.
24:14
Yeah. Yeah.
24:15
But you people you need to be afforded to make mistakes and I
24:18
think that's something else that's dangerous.
24:20
Would cancel culture is almost kind of implies that you just
24:25
you just can't be forgiven for anything, right?
24:28
I mean. Yeah, I think I think the way
24:31
forward that that I'm seeing happening now just based on like
24:36
the continued existence of certain figures, like comedians
24:39
who are in some controversy, a year or two ago and such and
24:41
we're kind of making a comeback I think.
24:45
The whole cancer culture thing started during a point where
24:48
that was the first time that was really happening in society and
24:50
no one really knew what the rules of this thing work.
24:53
And I think at that time, there was no such thing as a Road to
24:57
Redemption. You know, Redemptive Arc for for
24:59
somebody who's going through rightfully.
25:02
So, some, some balancing of the scales, I think, part of part of
25:06
what happens. Now, in the way forward is one,
25:10
if you're already a public figure, you have a certain fan
25:12
base and the Certain percentage of that fan base is going to be
25:16
like your true fans. You know that quote that term
25:19
and if you're going through some of this hot water balancing of
25:23
the scales, your true fans are probably going to stick with
25:26
you. They're going to stick it out
25:28
because they support you they've supported you from the beginning
25:30
or whatever. You know what not and and
25:32
they're they're like okay well let's give this guy a chance.
25:34
So those are the ones that are on your side.
25:36
So you know in this court of public opinion and then there's
25:40
those that are your casual fans that are like you know, no
25:43
justice. You know, forget this guy and
25:46
then there's probably some people in the middle who maybe
25:48
we'll check in on you every once in a while because they enjoyed
25:51
whatever, you know, content or thing.
25:53
They experienced, you gave him something meaningful, you know,
25:55
in their lives and I think the truth hands, you're fine with.
26:00
But it's the, the ones that are in the middle ground in the
26:02
Casual that. They'll, you have a Road to
26:05
Redemption. If they probably see that
26:08
you're, you're taking it seriously.
26:10
You're acknowledging the wrongs, and that you're, you're on, Some
26:14
kind of path to writing those things.
26:17
Like, they're the Comedian Chris D'Elia, just because it was
26:20
recently, my mind, he kind of was in a lot of hot water about
26:24
the year. It's probably most two years ago
26:26
about, you know, potentially soliciting.
26:30
Underage girls to come, hang out with him, like, or see his shows
26:35
and stuff. I don't know if he ever did
26:36
anything, but the idea was that that he was doing these things
26:40
that were very questionable, very gray area.
26:42
And then since then, if he took about, Your break his truth and
26:45
stuck with him, you know, they get to kept checking in on him
26:48
seeing if he is, putting a new videos, he posted some new
26:50
videos, probably about a year later and he came clean in that
26:55
first video. The first video he posted, he
26:56
just talked about what happened. There was no humor in it and
26:59
then he said that he's been in rehab for sex addiction for the
27:03
last year and that he's felt guilty about you know, that he
27:06
has a wife and the son now. And and he I think this that's
27:10
the best way I've seen it. Handled so far is just One.
27:14
He disappeared from the public eye.
27:16
He actually seems to have taken it seriously because he went
27:18
into rehab apparently. And so his truth hands
27:22
immediately jump back on the bandwagon.
27:24
I do a very happy to see him and and so on and so forth it and
27:27
probably within another year or so kill.
27:30
She'll be in the Media public eye again.
27:34
Like he's starting to perform here and there now.
27:36
But he'll be in the media public eye in the sense of like
27:38
somebody will offer them a park somewhere, you know, on a show
27:41
or on a on something and then the Casual fans will look at,
27:47
you know, what has he been up to and then they'll make a choice
27:49
whether you know to support him or not based on those scales,
27:52
right? No, no, you're right actually,
27:54
especially from an industry standpoint as well.
27:56
Like people won't touch you if you're, you know hot like oh
28:01
that's the One way of putting it, if there's heat on you, you
28:03
know, you're, you got bad press that because they don't want to
28:06
be associated with the bad press, but then, as soon as like
28:08
someone takes a risk on you after some time and it pays off
28:11
and people, open their eyes open.
28:13
They're like, oh yeah, we can work with this person again,
28:17
you're right. I think.
28:18
Yeah, a lot of time has to pass. And I mean I kind of made it
28:21
black and white before that, there are people examples of
28:24
people who've been forgiven seemingly.
28:27
Like I remember there was this one guy who was a Wrestling
28:31
YouTuber. I don't know how else to put it,
28:34
and it became apparent that it gives really popular.
28:37
And he was very, it's a very creative guy, very interesting
28:41
guy and his name is Adam Bomb PO for anyone that's interested.
28:45
And I remember, I can't remember exactly what he did.
28:49
It was something like he was messaging girls being a bit
28:53
manipulative, getting them to send him photos or something.
28:57
Use your basically abusing his position as like.
29:00
Like online content creator or whatever.
29:04
And as soon as it was found out, he quit the company that he was
29:08
working for. And he immediately said, hey I'm
29:11
going to go into rehab and do this and I think he donated to a
29:14
charity and then you just didn't see him for ages and he was away
29:19
dealing with it and then he sort of came back stayed away.
29:21
Well, away from the resting stuff.
29:25
Like seemingly that retired from that and plan never to come
29:28
back. And then he did make a bit of a
29:30
con A year or two ago, maybe two years ago now and seemingly.
29:36
All is forgotten, you know, and people welcomed him back and I
29:38
think it's the same thing as what you said.
29:41
Like if you take action, you know you don't just give some
29:45
crappy apology but you actually like mean it, make some action
29:48
get you know, take whatever measures you need to do to kind
29:52
of Rectify and then you move forward, you will I think
29:55
generally be forgiven by most people and anyone that you're
29:59
not forgiven by it's just Probably not worth your time
30:02
because it's like, if you can't forgive people, then you just
30:05
gonna have a hard time in my life, to be honest.
30:07
This time this is to carry around that resentment because
30:13
that resentment ultimate run just hurts.
30:15
You doesn't hurt anyone else? Yeah anyway yeah let's shift
30:21
topics. I like they were talking about
30:25
something. We both have absolutely no like
30:28
hands in fists as our other That we do is like, completely went
30:32
off to a good tangent, though. It's a good important.
30:35
Those kinds of things. People should talk about more
30:37
often in some kind of public venues.
30:38
So I'm all for it. Now, you mentioned earlier that
30:42
you study likes of creative Geniuses and your lifelong
30:45
passion as in your own words, is to study the inner workings of
30:49
creative Geniuses and you achieve this regularly through
30:52
your podcast. Creative codex.
30:55
Is that right? Yeah.
30:58
And so what can you tell us about this?
31:00
Cast and what you sort of already have discovered about
31:04
creative Geniuses. Oh boy, yeah that's that's a
31:08
lot. I mean I'll start by just
31:09
describing what the ethos is of the show basically.
31:16
Through the podcast creative codex.
31:19
I'm trying to tell the story of creativity which is obviously a
31:24
very very broad stroke a way of saying that I'm investigating
31:29
and exploring the way that creativity as just like this.
31:34
This human, this is passing of the human Spirit has threaded
31:38
self through the lives of Kruger, the greatest creative
31:41
Geniuses of human history. And through the to Seeing these
31:46
lives of these creative figures. I feel that we often learn so
31:50
much more through just seeing how they lived, how they created
31:53
their work, what the work meant to the culture.
31:56
At the time, we learn so much more about what art is, we learn
31:58
so much more about what creativity is than just reading.
32:01
Like, just the cold hard textbook or the recent release
32:04
of, you know, the the psychological research on
32:07
creativity, which is very valuable, and I read it myself.
32:11
But there's just so much to learn about humans about What
32:16
artists and creative Geniuses are, and what they do and what
32:18
it means. When you just study these lives,
32:21
these really fascinating and compelling lives, you know,
32:25
based on what the people that you saw, because I mean, a lot
32:28
of the people that you've studied, you know, it's like
32:30
1,800 1,700 20th century like you know, it's different
32:33
different eras in history. What can you tell us in a brief
32:37
sense about the history of creativity.
32:39
Like how has that developed up to this point?
32:46
Just in general, the the history of creativity.
32:48
I mean, creativity, I would say is one of the defining features
32:54
of humans. And it's been one of the things
32:59
that the behaviors or functions that human human civilization
33:05
has individually and also on a large scale.
33:08
That separates us. A lot of times from the Animal
33:11
Kingdom and other species. And if you look back at, you
33:16
know, the earliest indications of art, it takes us all the way
33:20
40,000 years ago to cave paintings and you can argue What
33:26
are these cave paintings? What do they mean to the person
33:28
creating them but when you also factor in these cave, paintings
33:33
exist before written language, these cave paintings exist, just
33:37
before cities before agriculture.
33:41
They just around the same time as music which is very
33:44
interesting because people have found to archaeologists.
33:46
Find bone flutes in these caves and such as well and so there's
33:50
no there's no separating humans from creativity and In terms of
33:56
the history of creativity, I wouldn't say that there was any
34:00
point where it was, you know, up or down, or better or worse.
34:04
It's just that we've lost the evidence of it.
34:06
You know, you can say, was there more creativity in ancient Egypt
34:10
than there was today is because today we everybody is pursuing
34:13
it participating it and it's like well what what do we have
34:17
that? We've lost from ancient Egypt.
34:19
Do we have their stories? You know what was a mother doing
34:23
with the stories of ancient Egypt and of the Send them, it's
34:26
but they had. And how was she changing them?
34:31
And what kind of Ingenuity was going on there?
34:33
What was going on with their fabrics?
34:35
And, you know, the the Pursuits that were more manual, that
34:42
we've lost. So anyway, just to say that
34:46
Humanity, creativity and in hand and it's never been more or
34:50
less, it's it's always been consistently there with us, you
34:54
know? What would you say?
34:57
Are the key attributes of a creative?
35:00
Genius. Yeah, I know that's a big one.
35:04
I mean there's a field of study of psychology specifically
35:08
dedicated to creativity and I would say one of the main ones
35:14
which doesn't guarantee that someone will be considered a
35:18
creative genius, but it's something that they all have, is
35:22
something that you'll sometimes see in Psychology terms being a
35:25
high creative. So this isn't just somebody who,
35:29
you know, occasionally the something novel Velour pursues
35:32
painting on a Sunday or something.
35:34
So a high creative is someone who is very similar to the last
35:40
show? You had, you know, about about
35:42
Polly messy and multi potentiality similar to that.
35:46
But even more, so that their life satisfaction basically
35:52
depends on having that time to pursue creative work, and that
35:57
could be personal creative work. That could be paid creative work
36:01
either way. This person was high, creative
36:03
is happy because there's something in that act of
36:08
creation and having these novel discoveries and sharing them.
36:13
That is enough, it feeds them and it's very meaningful to them
36:17
and up so that whether they're being paid for it or not,
36:19
they're going to pursue it off. Often.
36:20
I that I think of this as like a litmus test.
36:23
If someone's a high creative it's like, well, that task that
36:29
Medium that you work in. Would you still I'll do that.
36:33
If you were on a desert island, you know, and you could take
36:36
maybe like five things, like, would you and nobody was there
36:40
to appreciate your work or your heart, or your music?
36:42
Would you still do it? If you say yes that's more
36:46
likely that you're in that territory because you just need
36:49
to do it. It's like something that's a
36:50
function of yours, you know? That's an amazing Point.
36:53
Yeah, I completely agree with you, the especially with
36:58
everything that's gone on line for me.
37:01
The past 34 years of me, pursuing all my live streams and
37:05
goals. Whenever I've had low moments
37:09
people, in my community have said things like, well, you
37:12
know, why are you doing this? If your goal is just to reach a
37:16
bunch of people and get people to notice you, I mean that's the
37:19
wrong reasons or you know, to make money or whatever.
37:21
And that's the thing we all have different motivations.
37:24
I think for me, it's as you described, like, I feel the need
37:29
to just get it out like I Get a song out, it's like therapeutic.
37:34
It's, you know, you get this stuff out, you do it and then
37:36
you feel better. But at the same time, you do
37:38
want to be noticed. You know, I've said this in
37:43
previous podcasts with guests have had on like you know, we do
37:47
want to be noticed, we do want other people to appreciate it
37:49
and we'd be lying if we turn around and said that, you know,
37:52
don't mind if no one sees her cause she bite, you know, you
37:55
sure. Come on because we need that
37:57
validation. Yeah, the other thing.
37:58
Yeah, this happens is very low. Name is a very nice sense of
38:03
self-worth. Like my work is so much better
38:05
than that POS down the street, but since my work doesn't
38:10
deserve to be in them. Big Museum.
38:11
Sits like who I don't deserve to be paid anything for this work
38:14
was like, I'm so much better than all these other celebs.
38:18
Yeah. That's, that's the frustrating
38:19
thing, isn't it? When you see someone who's,
38:21
like, the top of their game in the industry, but maybe like
38:25
from your perspective, they like the work doesn't seem that good
38:29
or something. Like, I don't know, like
38:31
Sometimes, I look at that. You said list celebrities and it
38:38
doesn't aggravate me too much. I mean, I think it's just like
38:40
how Society is now, you know? But to me, like, hundreds of
38:44
years ago, you know, being celebrity, being famous was
38:48
like, Be being respected being revered for your work.
38:53
Like that's the one thing about me pursuing.
38:58
My goals is that I don't want fame just so that I can be like,
39:01
Oh, I'm famous, check me out that I don't care about that.
39:04
What I care about is being respected, for the work that I
39:07
do, it's very easy to become famous.
39:10
You can become famous for anything, like being a meme, or
39:13
going on a crappy reality TV show, whatever like that.
39:17
But that doesn't mean anything that's that's like someone.
39:20
Then if I read this somewhere or someone said it, but like
39:23
ultimately it comes down to like your contribution to humanity.
39:28
When you contract things, you want to look back and be like,
39:31
I've contributed in a positive way.
39:34
Something that people can appreciate use learn from
39:37
something like that, right? And I think that should be the
39:41
goal, you know, I mean versus just being famous.
39:44
I mean, examine Fame, right? I know, again, talking about
39:48
something that I know nothing about, but I mean, I look, I
39:52
look at people that like a famous like everywhere, all over
39:55
the TV for like six months and then you just don't hear
39:57
anything for them for years. And sometimes there's genuine
40:00
reasons for that life reasons or just, you know, they are still
40:04
doing things but, you know, they're just not in the public
40:06
eye but that's when it clicked for me.
40:08
The idea of the whole 50 minutes of fames thing, it's like to
40:11
stay at the top and constantly be in the public eye.
40:15
You've got to be like constantly featured by the media.
40:20
You know, and it's that that I think that's difficult, isn't it
40:23
to maintain a continual presence in the public Consciousness in?
40:29
And I mean, like it's more likely you're going to have like
40:32
ins and outs of like, you know. Yeah waves.
40:36
Yeah. Or maybe just, you know, like
40:38
for instance, one of my favorite musicians, Justin Hawkins from
40:41
the darkness, he recently set up like a YouTube channel where he
40:45
sort of like critique and music is brilliant.
40:47
By the way, I really encourage everyone to go check it out.
40:51
Because it is good because it's funny, because it's like, mean
40:53
worthy. And he's really harsh, but fair,
40:55
but also because he's clearly a very well-educated musician.
40:59
So, you get like that kind of insight, but he commented,
41:02
recently got some hate comments and he decided to turn into
41:05
content and one of the things that you said, which I thought
41:07
was interesting, was this guy was I go, you guys haven't been
41:10
relevant since 2003 or something these like, why are you annoyed
41:16
like, you know, for me I still get to be a rock star still.
41:19
So of getting getting to do tours and playing fairly well
41:23
sized venues, and he's clearly enjoying life and still having
41:27
fun. And it doesn't matter that he's
41:30
not, you know, on the other hand, fucking John from Russia
41:33
every week or whatever. Like it's, I think that speaks a
41:37
lot to his sense of priorities as far as his art, and I think
41:42
that's kind of key. Like, for me, if I become sexual
41:46
successful, or if I don't for me, it will always be About
41:50
working and producing and putting stuff out there and just
41:54
continually creating because it's, as you said before, like,
41:57
I think it's an inner need for many of us.
42:00
Creatives to feel sane to kind of put our feelings out into the
42:07
world, what we perceive of the world, there's this Pub that.
42:11
So the final tangent as this Pub, that I get so nervous in it
42:16
where I live and there's a guy that comes in, who's next You
42:19
know, artist really really cool artist and he often draws with
42:28
like felt pens or often he'll use chalk, which I thought was
42:31
really cool and he'll draw you how he perceives you which is I
42:38
think is really cool. Like I've there's a image he
42:41
drew of me, when I was performing some live music, a
42:44
couple of weeks back and he's very cool guy because he kind of
42:48
that comes over and just Present City.
42:50
Doesn't say anything. It's like here you go.
42:53
Oh yeah. Oh okay.
42:55
But he's cool guys is I really respected but I love that that
42:59
idea of like this is how he perceives the world through his
43:03
eyes and that really speaks to me.
43:05
Is this idea of your art is how you perceive the world, then
43:09
it's amazing, right? Right?
43:11
Yeah. It just to riff off of the
43:13
earlier time on On what a know what an artist, what a creative
43:18
actually wants. And I think it's once as a
43:21
creative because we all, we all are many of us have these
43:24
delusions of grandeur or like these fantasies, you know, of
43:27
Fame and how nice that is. Whatever.
43:29
Because that's really what our culture is built around,
43:32
especially currently, but I think once as a creative, we get
43:36
over that, that fantasy of Fame. Think the next thing that we're
43:40
just looking for, is just the feeling that our work is, When
43:45
shil, mmm, whether it has a million followers weather has
43:49
just five followers, right? Whether have five people paying
43:52
attention, when you feel that you're producing, something that
43:56
is Meaningful to someone, you know, when I get like an email
43:59
from someone or a message on Instagram that like they listen
44:03
to. So and so episode, they are
44:05
Vincent van Gogh or whatever, and that I could tell it really
44:10
meant something like it connected like that's enough for
44:13
me for that day. Like At least for now it is.
44:16
I don't know if I'm going to get jaded, but it's enough for me,
44:19
like just to know that I do. This is one person that
44:21
something I made reached or some art I made in, like, oh, I don't
44:26
see anything else like this. Oh my God, you know, this is
44:28
what I needed, whatever, whatever.
44:30
And that really keeps you going and so that, that kind of tells
44:34
me that Even if it's not even validation, it's just feeling
44:39
like there's something consequential to what you're
44:41
putting out, right? No, no, I completely agree.
44:44
I always make a point of thanking my little Community for
44:49
supporting me, and the kind words they say and stuff,
44:51
because I get comments like that, every once in a while, and
44:54
it's absolutely blows my mind. I'm like, sitting there going,
44:56
you know what this is silly to even sit there thinking, oh,
44:59
well, I don't know, have more views and more attention because
45:01
this one person right here. Listen this this episode or
45:06
watch this. Thing, or like this song and
45:09
that in that moment, made them feel better, or gave them
45:13
something. And that is always going to be
45:16
more valuable than anything else, I think.
45:19
Yeah. Yeah.
45:20
And even riffing off of that. Just thought of it.
45:24
When we were talking, like, the thing that's still mystified
45:28
finds me, I'm still trying to figure it out myself.
45:31
It is this idea that, you know, when you look at the animal,
45:36
Kingdoms and you look even look at insects like let's say yeah I
45:40
was I was recently at Liberty Science Center.
45:43
It's a type of Museum space regarding science here in New
45:47
York City. I was there with my daughter and
45:49
stuff and I saw this one area that was an ant colony and I had
45:53
set it up to ants. Could just do do what they do
45:56
with it. And then you end up seeing this,
45:59
this really clear obvious display that the ants are
46:04
functioning and very specific. Rolls like and the Ant that's
46:09
like the worker and is not going to trespass into the role of the
46:14
ant. It's like the Harvester ant
46:16
that's like basically does farming they farm and then they
46:19
have the ants that carry the waist to the waist areas and and
46:23
all the very few roles, but the rules are very clearly defined
46:28
and it's a really clear purpose in the community.
46:31
And so then I get to thinking, you know, many of us have these
46:34
roles we assume you know, mother Or whatever.
46:36
But but then clearly the role of a creative Loosely called artist
46:43
is serving some purpose within Society, within the community
46:47
that they existed. And that question of what is the
46:51
purpose what is the role that ant that artists and is serving?
46:55
It's still mystifies me. Like what is that clearly, it's
46:58
valuable right? And clearly it's necessary
47:02
because there have been Wars, they've been authoritarian
47:04
regimes that have tried to get rid of.
47:06
And they continue doing their stuff behind closed doors.
47:09
You know, there's been the rolling forward of history and
47:13
technology and everything and artists and creatives.
47:16
They're just as needed today and still around and I feel like we
47:20
haven't figured that out yet. Like this artist, Aunt, what's
47:23
he up to? It's true.
47:26
I think we're slowly getting there as far as appreciating,
47:30
these these fields, but it's funny, you mention that because,
47:33
again, I was talking to that artist.
47:34
I told you about the other day, Pub.
47:36
And so I said, I wasn't Pub. Anyway.
47:40
He was kind of talking about that have the education system
47:43
released in the UK. Still kind of doesn't really
47:49
fully Revere artists in the same way that it does.
47:55
People that want to be scientists or mathematicians or
47:58
lawyers or doctors or whatever. And I understand that those
48:01
things are essential in in life, like they're very sought after
48:06
valuable career paths. We need people to do those those
48:11
positions, but then is Art not as well equally as valuable.
48:15
I mean, we all need entertainment, you know, we
48:19
don't think about this doing that movies and music.
48:22
I music, it can be the soundtrack of life and movies.
48:25
Can Define feelings or Captivate our minds and ways.
48:31
We might not have envisioned before and I'm sure scuse me
48:35
that we've all got a song or a piece of art or a movie or
48:38
something that speaks to us in a deep way that maybe we can't
48:43
even put into words how it makes us feel but we understand its.
48:47
It connects to us on a deep level that moves us some sort of
48:52
make some motivates us to do. Things within our lives, you
48:56
know? Yeah, you know, it absolutely
49:00
creative work. Whatever it may be it, it
49:04
engages Us in deeply meaningful ways and it basically adds the
49:08
color to life. I mean, that's the way I see it.
49:10
And if one imagines a world devoid of creative work like
49:17
what is it like if there's no, there's no snow shows to watch
49:21
new movies to attend. No concerts to listen to know No
49:25
favorite bands. You know, the the children
49:27
aren't drawing new rainbows and trees in class.
49:31
I mean, it just you just draining the color out of the
49:34
world. That's hell, that's how tell,
49:36
that's what it is. You know, you're right.
49:39
That's, that's a concentration camp is what it is.
49:41
It's, it's being forced to live just as just this unit, just as
49:46
number, right? And that's what, that's what
49:49
concentration camps are. And were they still happen
49:52
around the world in different countries.
49:54
But but The draining way of life.
49:56
And I think there's something to to Art, like, what you were
50:00
saying, where the value of it is in a sense, unquantifiable,
50:05
which is partially, maybe why these these societal structures
50:11
aren't saying, hey, you know, maybe we should have these funds
50:13
for artists so that they don't have to fucking starve just to
50:17
create interesting and meaningful work that then we,
50:20
you know, it gets so much meaning of meaning out of, let
50:24
me treat. So you just completely changing
50:27
the subject but on the topic of your polish Heritage, so you
50:32
were born in Poland and you came to the state's age like five.
50:37
Yeah, early on. Yeah yeah.
50:38
So your parents is that first generation right?
50:42
Or yeah. Yeah, I wasn't I wasn't even
50:44
born here. So my parents are furious and I
50:46
traveled in as an immigrant's young.
50:48
Yeah. So I'm intrigued to cut because
50:51
obviously they would have taught you you know, everything like
50:53
the language and your history and Like that.
50:56
But did you find somewhat maybe of a disconnect when you were
51:00
learning about history at school in America versus maybe what
51:06
your parents had taught you and love, was there a disconnect
51:09
there or conflict of interest or something like that?
51:12
Like, I'm interested to get your perspective because you're very
51:15
much a man that's in Two Worlds. In that sense, anyone that has a
51:19
Heritage Beyond like one country will know that you know, you are
51:25
the product of many places and that's all going to be part of
51:28
you in different. It's going to shape how you see
51:31
the world, how you interact with the world, how you think about
51:34
things, Etc? Yeah, no, thank you.
51:38
That's, it was a really brilliant.
51:39
Thoughtful question. I would say that when I was
51:44
younger, I thought that the idea of being split between these two
51:49
countries and identities was a weakness, but as an artist now,
51:54
you know, as an adult that I see it's an Incredible strength or
51:58
an Incredible point of growth for me as an artist because as
52:04
artists, we actually thrive in these no spaces in these gray
52:09
areas, right more than any other.
52:13
And in society, the artist and thrives in the liminal spaces in
52:19
places where the answers aren't clear in places where things
52:22
overlap in strange and interesting ways.
52:25
And so what at first, I initially thought of as a
52:27
weakness because I had to learn a completely new language, you
52:30
know? We came here.
52:30
I didn't know English as a kid and that was certainly was a
52:33
challenge and feeling like the outside immigrant kid.
52:36
The accent as a kid. And with the weird name that
52:39
people would instead call me meatloaf.
52:41
And I mean, these are trivial things.
52:42
You know, people will certainly get picked on for worse but but
52:46
just in the context of eventually accepting my role as
52:50
an artist as a creative. That actually was an interesting
52:53
point of growth for that, in terms of like history in terms
52:57
of class or anything like that. I mean, largely from a neighbor
53:01
call, you know, going through grade school.
53:03
It was largely American. Her with some world history and
53:08
then whether because of that or not, I only became interested in
53:13
my roots in the history of, you know, Eastern Europe and the
53:17
Slavic countries in such as I became an adult past college and
53:22
stuff because probably as you grow older you want to connect
53:25
with those things more. And so that became a, it still
53:29
is a personal interest as a human being if you don't mind
53:33
me, took going down this route a little bit more.
53:36
I love it. Yeah, it's awesome.
53:37
Awesome movie growing up in New York city, so just sort the
53:42
center of the universe as far as America is concerned in many
53:45
ways, when you, when you do return to Poland to see family
53:51
or to just be there like is it also home?
53:55
Is it a different kind of hook? Like, how do you feel in both
53:57
places? Because obviously, generally
54:00
speaking, when one goes up in one particular place, they'll
54:03
typically feel that that's home because of Of memories style
54:07
July whatever, you know. But that sometimes it's not the
54:10
case. You know, there's people people
54:12
who I've even spoken to who yes they might be born in one place
54:16
and live their life but they feel more connected to other
54:19
places that they're they're connected to like what?
54:23
Exactly but you'll feelings and connections like when it comes
54:28
to both America and Poland, Yeah, I mean I was there maybe
54:35
about three years ago. I we visit every few years this
54:39
time. It was the first time I had
54:40
brought my brought our daughter there.
54:42
Wow. Yeah.
54:44
It was a big deal for. She really enjoyed it.
54:45
She she also knows how to she knows how to speak Polish but
54:49
she refuses to, she's only seven, she's amazing, but it's
54:53
reason. Yeah.
54:56
But I mean it's hard to answer because it's one of those things
54:59
that You know, world as I'm there I feel at home and when I
55:05
come back home I feel at home. Yep, but if I was in Paris or
55:10
something, I wouldn't feel at home and so it's maybe something
55:15
that's more imperceptible. I mean, it could be completely a
55:21
by a cultural bias or something. But there are people who say
55:26
that when you go somewhere, Where your DNA is from there?
55:31
Like you, you feel it? It's not conscious.
55:34
It's like, biological like you're there and like, your
55:36
body's like, oh, I know this climate, like this is, this is
55:40
the climate, that if the DNA is, like an organism that has, you
55:43
know, been keeping itself surviving for Generations
55:48
Generations. Your DNA is like, oh you know,
55:50
we know this place, this place is our place and you just feel
55:53
it. People have said, you know when
55:55
they go to certain countries they like Kurt Cobain I was
55:57
recently Listening to an interview.
56:00
He didn't know what his roots were.
56:01
He didn't know too much about his Heritage and then he only
56:06
later found out that the Cobain name is has Irish Roots, but he
56:11
said that that immediately struck him like a bolt of
56:13
lightning, because he remembered when they were touring in
56:16
Ireland, there was one specific place.
56:17
They went to and he said that that day.
56:20
He walked around in a daze because he just felt at home and
56:22
he didn't know why and it kind of makes me think of that, you
56:25
know, there's like the something there, I feel.
56:28
Exactly the same about Europe. Hmm.
56:33
I don't know a lot about my family heritage and on my mom's
56:36
side seemingly, we just didn't never went anywhere.
56:40
Yeah, I don't know. That's what she's still come
56:44
back to me and she's like, 200 years of history and stingo.
56:47
Anyone stuck in one. What's the one place that they
56:50
stuck in the same same rough area in the suburbs of London
56:55
and come on, guys. But to be fair like we we don't
57:00
know for sure but I know My dad's side distantly there's at
57:06
least French and Irish blood and apparently more, he did a DNA
57:09
test recently, you know the one where they tell you that all the
57:12
places you're supposedly from. Yeah, but I got to say like, you
57:15
know, like I lived in this country called Estonia for three
57:18
years and fell sort of somewhat of a spiritual connection there,
57:27
every country that I visited in Europe, I've always kind of felt
57:30
a bit more connected to this interesting because I feel A
57:36
deep connection to the UK as well.
57:38
But in a very different way around.
57:41
It's like a connect more with you Europe, and European people
57:44
and culture and I I think I'm more that way leaning but I
57:50
don't forget my roots over and I'm you know, for instance when
57:53
I was away from the UK, I know for the first time in my life, I
57:57
got homesick after a couple of years now.
57:59
Yeah. I was like, oh, this is weird.
58:01
I never and it was it was a strange feeling because it
58:03
wasn't so much like missing the place it was almost like missing
58:08
a part of myself. Interesting.
58:11
Yeah, it was that was the thing. And when I came back I it was
58:15
like reconnecting with an old friend and I think being away
58:21
from the UK actually made me appreciate it more.
58:26
And I love this Tony, I still do.
58:27
It's like a second home to me, but it's just different.
58:31
And I think there's always going to be like a deep link with you
58:35
with your Homeland, like your Homeland As you say, maybe it's
58:39
a biological thing, maybe it's a spiritual thing.
58:40
I don't know. But when I'm away from you.
58:43
Okay. I do feel it, it's interesting.
58:47
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well I like what you said about
58:50
missing a part of yourself. Think that's interesting way.
58:53
Also to make sense of it because it's like I sometimes think
58:58
about what, what are we doing when we get used to an
59:02
environment and it's some form of like, mapping out everything
59:07
neurologically. And also, when we're having a
59:09
conversation, technically, it's like traveling on terrain and
59:11
we're mapping it out and a lot of things that we do, I think
59:15
our neurology wants to map it out, and in a sense it becomes
59:19
that pattern. And when we get used to an
59:23
environment, we've mapped ourselves out into it.
59:26
It. And so our association with it
59:29
is their Association of how we function in that environment and
59:33
what it gives us and what we give it in the back and forth,
59:35
right? And so like, when you're
59:37
returning home, you're returning to that neural map, that map of
59:42
that place, what it gives you what you've given it, and it's
59:47
this territory. That that is really literally a
59:50
part of yourself. And when you're not there you
59:51
don't really have access to it except as memories, right?
59:54
But then once you're back, your kind of functioning within this
59:56
map that Very used to traveling, the terrain of and it feels
1:00:01
familiar, right? There's a comfort in it.
1:00:03
Absolutely, let's switch up again.
1:00:09
How has being a father changed, not only our perception of life
1:00:14
but how you approach art like has it kind of maybe because
1:00:19
it's change of perspective, it's then kind of influenced those
1:00:22
fields or is it not really any different?
1:00:26
so interesting and so specifically about art, Huh.
1:00:31
And it can be life in general, you know, but I just I mean yeah
1:00:34
it's definitely changed life in general.
1:00:37
I mean I'm not really the way I perceive life though.
1:00:40
Specifically like how you viewed.
1:00:43
So before you were a father like was it like a shit that
1:00:46
immediate shift or because some people say you know I can't
1:00:50
relate but some people say when they first You know, their child
1:00:54
is born and they hold their child in their hands for the
1:00:56
first time. Like then they know what love
1:00:59
truly is and excetera. That's what you hear but like
1:01:02
three I know that's BS. Okay.
1:01:07
I can only say that because I'm a parent but it comes in waves
1:01:11
like that that initial like whoa Life is Beautiful.
1:01:15
Like it's it's they're certainly like my first thought when I was
1:01:18
holding our daughter in the hospital I was like what I'm
1:01:23
supposed to. Take care of this little living
1:01:25
thing now. Like I don't know how to take
1:01:27
care of this thing. Huh, why am I being interested
1:01:30
to it? It was more, it was more slight
1:01:32
Panic than it was like Beauty life is beautiful.
1:01:35
But but the love thing, it's weird because it's the way the
1:01:40
brain works. As we get further from an event
1:01:44
or an experienced. We project backward onto it, our
1:01:48
emotions. And so right now, when I think
1:01:52
about, when was the first time I held My daughter must have been
1:01:55
a feeling of such love, you know, could because I think
1:01:58
about the way I feel when I hold her.
1:01:59
Now you know that the love is cumulative it builds as you as
1:02:04
you build those experiences with the child.
1:02:07
And so we naturally assume like when we held them we would think
1:02:10
of, you know how we feel now. But but certainly it was waves
1:02:15
of these points of realization and shifts.
1:02:19
I mean, there's in the initial shift of having a child where
1:02:22
you now feel You're part of the club, which is just the parent
1:02:26
club, like, where you've never thought there was a club until
1:02:31
you and are now in charge of this little living thing.
1:02:34
And then you're like, oh, so now I have something in common with
1:02:38
every single person that's apparent and we can immediately
1:02:41
start a conversation and that's a really interesting thing
1:02:43
because you don't realize that's a thing until you're there.
1:02:47
And then there's other, you know, their shifts as we absorb
1:02:49
realizations. And there's of course the one,
1:02:51
you know, it's commonly said that now Do you feel like you're
1:02:54
living for someone rather than for yourself even if you had a
1:02:58
partner or significant other? You may or may not have been
1:03:02
more or less selfish, you know, with the time you spent with
1:03:05
them but with a child you know there's there's a required in
1:03:12
the sense or Duty there but also like an emotional need to spend
1:03:18
time with them. And, you know, even if you don't
1:03:20
see them for half a day, you miss them.
1:03:23
Because there's just there's a different connection there.
1:03:25
So, so there's different shifts. That's, you know, there's a few
1:03:28
of the shifts, another shift that maybe is more in line with
1:03:32
what you were saying earlier on the question.
1:03:35
Was that as a parent, I feel more As teal part of the fabric
1:03:44
of humanity, a little more than I was when I was in a parrot.
1:03:49
Like, I don't know if that makes sense like that, that Humanity
1:03:53
has like a mission and and some of the tasks that Humanity does
1:03:57
is, is raising children. So that Humanity continues, so
1:04:01
unconsciously as a parent, I feel like, oh, I'm more in the
1:04:04
fabric of this thing then when I was single, like it's just, it
1:04:09
just feels like I'm more connected to it in a It bonds me
1:04:12
a little more, you know that make sense.
1:04:16
Thanks for sharing, man. I appreciate it.
1:04:19
So you're an award-winning composer specifically film
1:04:24
composer. And I just real quickly about
1:04:28
which award did you actually win for your composing?
1:04:32
Yeah. It was a festival Film Festival
1:04:35
over here. New York City Vision.
1:04:37
Fest also does 2011 or something.
1:04:41
But it was for a feature film. I'd done music forums, like this
1:04:45
really weird interesting experimental feature film that
1:04:48
was called ontological and it was wall-to-wall.
1:04:51
Music is like, 90 minutes of Music had to be done for this
1:04:54
thing and it was really great experience.
1:04:57
It was incredibly fulfilling, very low paid for the amount of
1:05:03
it, but it's like that's that's the balance like the projects.
1:05:07
You get paid least for usually you do them because you know,
1:05:10
there's so meaningful to You and they end up paying you back in
1:05:14
other ways, you know what would you say are some of your kind of
1:05:18
favorite experiences or the biggest things that stand out
1:05:21
for you, over the years of being a film composer or a composer.
1:05:24
Just in general, I've had experiences where usually the
1:05:30
most meaningful ones. The ones that kind of feed my
1:05:35
soul are the ones where I created something and then I was
1:05:41
in in front of the musicians as they performed it.
1:05:45
There's this Justice isn't vibration in the air when
1:05:50
there's live music. In front of you, especially
1:05:51
something like a string section, you know, cellos violins, violas
1:05:55
double bass and stuff stuff. And so I specifically always
1:05:59
come back to this moment where I was working on this film and I
1:06:02
was an orchestrator for this composer.
1:06:04
Paul cancel on, we were working on something called think they
1:06:08
change the name to conviction is originally differently, but I
1:06:12
was, he orchestrated. So I was pretty crazy. will be
1:06:15
involved with writing the string Parts, like actually writing
1:06:18
Melodies and such not just, like, trying to copy Paul's
1:06:21
piano part and so in the process of that, you know, at the end,
1:06:25
we go to the studio and we have this 20-person String orchestra
1:06:30
and I was also conducting them and just just a vibration in the
1:06:35
room and feeling that this is my music and it's like it's a it's
1:06:42
a basically a spiritual experience because the It's it's
1:06:45
vibrating your cells of your body and it's very, very
1:06:49
life-affirming. So it that takes me back a lot
1:06:51
to those kinds of moments where it's performers with their
1:06:57
Consciousness trying to express the thing that you brought into
1:07:01
the world in front of you, it's very interesting Loop and yeah,
1:07:05
I would say something like that. Awesome, thanks again for
1:07:09
Sharon. Thank you.
1:07:11
This is my favorite question to ask my guests.
1:07:14
What's the biggest life lesson you've learned so far?
1:07:19
Hmm. The biggest life lesson.
1:07:23
I mean, I'm still learning my life lessons.
1:07:27
I would say I would say kindness.
1:07:33
I would say, yeah, yeah. Kindness is the most important,
1:07:40
life lesson. In a sense, it's the one
1:07:47
principle of action that is always the correct answer in all
1:07:54
situations. Because it helps you understand
1:07:57
everyone else's perspective. And even if that person has
1:08:02
wronged you in some way, and retribution needs to happen, at
1:08:08
least the understanding of their perspective.
1:08:13
Guarantees that the what you'll Dole out is appropriate to what
1:08:16
they've done and not to something that you'll do that
1:08:19
because, you know, your ego says, you know, it'll getting
1:08:22
gain satisfaction from it. So you know, kindness towards
1:08:27
even animals and towards yourself and that's an important
1:08:31
lesson that you know, many of us still find difficult to do.
1:08:35
So yeah, as far as like something as broad as life
1:08:40
lessons, that's what I would say.
1:08:43
So that as we draw things to a close today, do you have any
1:08:47
upcoming projects or maybe some final thoughts that you'd like
1:08:49
to share with our listeners? Oh yeah.
1:08:54
Did you just check out creative codex C, 0 DX, in your podcast
1:08:57
players on Spotify, it's everywhere.
1:09:00
You can visit my site, which is my name.com am J, b0 R IA n.com.
1:09:06
I routinely update that for whatever new art music or
1:09:09
podcast episodes of doing and releasing.
1:09:12
And yeah, file check me out on Instagram.
1:09:13
Same MJ Dorian. And it'll be fun.
1:09:18
But I do stuff. Excellent.
1:09:20
Well listeners. It's been an absolute pleasure
1:09:22
having you Show, just want to say a massive, thank you for
1:09:25
being on the show and sharing your experiences.
1:09:29
And just, yeah, let's learn a little bit about you.
1:09:31
It's gonna, it's been a fun. Thank you.
1:09:33
Yeah, I really very much enjoyed it.
1:09:34
Thank you for inviting me on, despite any technical logistical
1:09:40
things that may have been my issue at times and I appreciate
1:09:43
it. We had a lot of fun and
1:09:45
hopefully we can get to do it again.
1:09:46
Sometime, I would absolutely love that and that's all of my
1:09:49
listeners of the Christian read podcast as always be safe.
1:09:53
Safe be well. Thank you very much for
1:09:54
listening and I'll see you in the next one.