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Top Villains · Movie Meltdown

• 0:09
  Speaker 1: Hi, this is Scott Wilson.
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: I played Herschel Green on The Walking Dead, and this
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: is Movie Meltdown.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: Stay tuned.
• 0:24
  Speaker 3: The following feature has been rated R by the Motion
• 0:26
  Speaker 3: Picture Association of America.
• 0:28
  Speaker 4: It is intended for mature audiences and parental discretion is advised.
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: It's showtime, folks. Enjoy the show.
• 0:48
  Speaker 5: Our nuclear reactor, pumping out 1 million kilowatts of power.
• 1:18
  Speaker 5: provide more cooling in the containment chambers.
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: To your sentinels, we have Movie Mountain. You either die
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: become the villain.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: What's up, and welcome to Movie Mountain. I'm Brian.
• 1:38
  Speaker 6: I'm Beau.
• 1:39
  Speaker 7: I'm Lucy.
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: I'm Dave.
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: And we are coming to you live via digital recording
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: from the collection of collections. Isn't that how you just
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: referred to this place? It's Beau's collection of collections. Which
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: there are many. Lucy's still in awe.
• 1:56
  Speaker 8: I haven't gotten my tour yet, so... I'm just in
• 1:59
  Speaker 8: awe at the foyer.
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: Oh, well, thank you.
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: We told you, once you get to the Dick Tracy room,
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: there's no return.
• 2:04
  Speaker 7: Yeah, the Dick Tracy Museum is... That's the scary one.
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: That's when you just get thrown into the.
• 2:11
  Speaker 7: That's when suddenly you walk into the Dick Tracy room
• 2:14
  Speaker 7: and you start backing out.
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: Well, I gotta go... How many Dick Tracy cast members
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: are dead, and how many do you have in that room?
• 2:26
  Speaker 7: In the way of major players, not that many. And
• 2:32
  Speaker 7: I won't confirm nor deny if I have the body
• 2:35
  Speaker 7: of R.G.
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: Armstrong in there.
• 2:38
  Speaker 7: Favorite character actor, and I guess popular for playing minor
• 2:43
  Speaker 7: villains as sort of a segue into what we're going
• 2:46
  Speaker 7: to be talking about.
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this week we actually return to the grind. Which
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: we have not done anything topic based in quite a while.
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: So that's another reason I kind of like this one
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: being thrown out there.
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: So.
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: You're free to write in and give us other topics,
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: but this week is provided by Bo, who sent it
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: over and went, hey, this is a thing, and we
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: should talk about it. So do we want to address
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: the original post that you saw first and then get rolling?
• 3:27
  Speaker 7: Sure, I think so. The post that I saw, it
• 3:30
  Speaker 7: was put up on the website Taste of Cinema. You know,
• 3:36
  Speaker 7: they do a lot of lists, sometimes just for the
• 3:39
  Speaker 7: sake of lists.
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: That's the internet.
• 3:41
  Speaker 7: Yeah, I know what it is. And a lot of
• 3:44
  Speaker 7: the time I'm not a fan of the topics that
• 3:46
  Speaker 7: they'll pick because they'll pick like, you know, top ten
• 3:50
  Speaker 7: worst movies to win best picture and stuff along that line.
• 3:53
  Speaker 7: I'm like, man, if you're starting off with something negative
• 3:56
  Speaker 7: as a discussion point, I'm not really a fan because
• 3:59
  Speaker 7: it's– if you're going to be a site that's supposed
• 4:02
  Speaker 7: to be about the love of cinema, I don't really
• 4:04
  Speaker 7: see the purpose in having topics where all you're doing
• 4:06
  Speaker 7: is you're dumping.
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: On the films. I can't hate the internet.
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: People just like trashing things on the internet.
• 4:13
  Speaker 7: Yeah, but this was a list they posted on February 7th,
• 4:18
  Speaker 7: and it was called the 10 most underrated movie villains
• 4:23
  Speaker 7: of all time. And so, I mean, this is just
• 4:27
  Speaker 7: one person's opinion, but I thought it was an interesting
• 4:31
  Speaker 7: topic to bring up because, you know, the writer does
• 4:35
  Speaker 7: point out early on that most of the time when
• 4:37
  Speaker 7: you see these lists of villains, either online or even
• 4:41
  Speaker 7: going back to AFI did one and I guess it
• 4:44
  Speaker 7: was like 97 or something like that. It's always the
• 4:48
  Speaker 7: same predictable villains. They just put on Nurse Ratched and
• 4:54
  Speaker 7: Norman Bates and even more modern ones like Heath Ledger's
• 4:58
  Speaker 7: Joker or Anton Sugar from No Country for Old Men.
• 5:01
  Speaker 7: So this list, he tried to focus on just minor
• 5:06
  Speaker 7: villains that a lot of the time don't get decent
• 5:10
  Speaker 7: recognition within film. So, you know, we kind of suggested
• 5:16
  Speaker 7: as a topic that each of us here kind of
• 5:18
  Speaker 7: come up with at least 10 villains that we thought were,
• 5:23
  Speaker 7: you know, underrated, underrecognized. Though I think we were talking
• 5:26
  Speaker 7: before we even got started that we probably all have
• 5:31
  Speaker 7: well over 10. So we got like our 10 and
• 5:32
  Speaker 7: then like a bunch of quote unquote honorable mentions.
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: That was, yeah, that was my was trying to... And
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: we were discussing this, too. It's like we kind of
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: numbered them. But with mine, I'm like, I hate. That's
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: why I hate non-movie people who are like, oh, what's
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: your favorite? I'm like, I don't know. What minute is it? Like,
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: I'm not even what day. Like, within the day, my
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: favorite movie might change. So same thing with like, this
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: is the best one of these or the worst. I'm like,
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I just list things for the sake of,
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: you know, these are ones that occurred to me and
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: I went with them. So I have them. With numbers
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: next to them, but it really doesn't mean anything. And, again,
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: there's ten other ones I put on the side just
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: to get to these ten.
• 6:12
  Speaker 7: It's the same here. I've got names next to ten,
• 6:14
  Speaker 7: but then there's a bunch of scribbles or arrows indicating
• 6:17
  Speaker 7: this maybe belongs here. You can't really rank that sort
• 6:20
  Speaker 7: of stuff. And I look over at Lucy's list, and
• 6:22
  Speaker 7: it's the same thing. There's a lot of, like, scribbles. Like, well,
• 6:25
  Speaker 7: I don't know if I can rank that person over that. So,
• 6:27
  Speaker 7: I mean, I guess it'll almost be probably of an
• 6:30
  Speaker 7: informal just listing ten, which... This article does too. They
• 6:34
  Speaker 7: say in no particular order on theirs.
• 6:37
  Speaker 8: I also had a tricky time with underrated because I
• 6:39
  Speaker 8: know who I'm talking to today. And I felt like
• 6:42
  Speaker 8: everything I was going to say was going to be
• 6:43
  Speaker 8: like much more mainstream, even though it was not even
• 6:45
  Speaker 8: remotely mainstream.
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: Not necessarily. Cause there was one or two that I
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: was like, I feel like that's not massively underrated for
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: movie geeks, but for regular people, like they're going to
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: go with way more conventional. So there's one or two
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: that I was like, I'm just throwing this in. Cause this,
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: person needs to be represented one way or another. So I, yeah,
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: I think that's questionable. Less underrated and more just under-recognized.
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: Under-recognized or even sometimes not even recognized in the context
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: of being a villain. You know, you've got people that
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: are pretty gray that I think are very interesting characters.
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: And I ran into a scenario and I was telling
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: you this earlier, I ran into a loophole and I
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: was like, well, I'm going to allow it because even
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: in the one we're referencing, they do, they do, um,
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: but it's like, and his gang. They throw a whole
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: group of people together. Because I kept running into duos
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: that specifically only work as a pair, really. So the
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: more I went into it, I was like, okay, well,
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: you kind of need that one. And I'm like, oh, well,
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: that kind of works for that, too. So I've got
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: a couple that are like, I'm not even counting it
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: as one and two. I'm like, they're their own entity.
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: They're their own villainous duo that only works as a
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: duo together. So I'm just kind of throwing it in
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: there as one thing.
• 8:00
  Speaker 7: So I guess before we get rolling, should I go
• 8:04
  Speaker 7: down the quick list of.
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: Um, yes, please. Okay.
• 8:08
  Speaker 7: Uh, the 10 that the individual had listed and I'm
• 8:11
  Speaker 7: looking for the author's name by Jack Hawkins. Um, it's
• 8:15
  Speaker 7: most of these just tend to be movie fans that,
• 8:18
  Speaker 7: you know, it's almost like a blog for those unfamiliar. Um,
• 8:23
  Speaker 7: They list it as their ten. One, Ray, which is
• 8:26
  Speaker 7: the Ray Winstone character from the film.
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: Kneel by Mouth.
• 8:31
  Speaker 6: Which is frightening.
• 8:32
  Speaker 7: Second, we've got Robert De Niro's Dwight Hansen from This
• 8:36
  Speaker 7: Boy's Life.
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: It's just sort of underseen as a movie, really.
• 8:40
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: I've almost forgotten most.
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: Of that movie.
• 8:43
  Speaker 7: Percy Wetmore, played by Doug Hutchinson in The Green Mile,
• 8:47
  Speaker 7: who is just like such a slimy, disreputable character.
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: Snivelly gore, yeah.
• 8:53
  Speaker 7: Thor was the only one I kind of had questions about.
• 8:55
  Speaker 7: They listed Quint.
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: I have major problems with that. Super major problems. He
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: is definitely self-destructive.
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: He's obsessive and dangerous, but he's a protagonist just like
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: the others.
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: He's just way more committed to the point of causing
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: himself and the people around him to possible death.
• 9:15
  Speaker 7: Yeah, he is. I mean, he's collaborating with the other two.
• 9:19
  Speaker 7: It's not like there's... this antagonistic relationship between them so yeah.
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: I just thought that was the one that was off
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: screen and on.
• 9:28
  Speaker 8: Screen unless you see the shark as the hero putting
• 9:32
  Speaker 8: it out there.
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: These three bastards keep following me around stop shoving barrels
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: into my back I'm just hungry just doing what I
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: do which I want.
• 9:41
  Speaker 7: To get back to that in a minute but finish
• 9:42
  Speaker 7: the list Matthew McConaughey is Joe Cooper from Killer Joe
• 9:48
  Speaker 7: and let's see here Scorpio from dirty Harry, who is
• 9:53
  Speaker 7: a really fun terrifying.
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: Previous guest on Movie Mountain. That guy was very cool.
• 10:00
  Speaker 7: One that actually I was so happy to see on
• 10:02
  Speaker 7: this list was Michael Gambon's character from The Cook, The Thief,
• 10:06
  Speaker 7: his wife and her lover, Albert. Just because that's one
• 10:10
  Speaker 7: we were talking about before the show began. I love
• 10:13
  Speaker 7: how his character... For the first hour or so, you're like,
• 10:16
  Speaker 7: why is everybody like, why has this guy got a gang?
• 10:18
  Speaker 7: He just seems like an utter dunce. But like that,
• 10:20
  Speaker 7: the terror in his character starts building to the point
• 10:23
  Speaker 7: to where, you know, when it's getting closer to him
• 10:27
  Speaker 7: catching his wife in the affair, it's just you cringe
• 10:30
  Speaker 7: every time he comes on screen. And then we got
• 10:33
  Speaker 7: Clarence Boddicker. And then it's like, and his crew.
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: And his gang.
• 10:38
  Speaker 7: From RoboCop. God bless you, Kurtwood Smith. Here they've got
• 10:43
  Speaker 7: a duo. They've got Paul and Peter from Funny Games.
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there are. And again, those two only work. So
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: that's the scenario I kept hitting was like, you can't
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: have one because the whole scenario is built around these
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: two people.
• 10:55
  Speaker 7: Krug Stillo from Last House on the Left. Though, you know,
• 10:59
  Speaker 7: I could argue that it's like, well, it's not just
• 11:01
  Speaker 7: him in Last House on the.
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: Left, too.
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: That's a horrible group of people all together. So it
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: only kind of, you don't get that whole scenario without
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: them overpowering them and breaking in, so. My question was,
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: are we, well, I guess I just wanted to throw
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: it out there and see if everybody was on the
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: same page. We're sticking with villain as in human, not
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: monstrous villain, because we could almost do a best monsters.
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: Because I feel like it, because you could easily say, again,
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: my knee jerk for any horrible creature, like the alien
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: from any of the aliens franchises is an amazing creature
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: to be, you know, dealing with, fighting, whatever. But, To me,
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: that's not really a villain because it's animalistic. It's just
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: doing what it does. So, I mean, that's kind of
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: my take on it. Unless it's conniving against you.
• 11:52
  Speaker 7: I think you could count that as villain, but I
• 11:54
  Speaker 7: don't know if any of us did because we all
• 11:55
  Speaker 7: started thinking about.
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: People.
• 11:58
  Speaker 7: Individuals that just have sort of like... as Dave was
• 12:01
  Speaker 7: saying before the show, just sort of like an interesting pathos.
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: Pathos is the big point with me. I've got one
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: that kind of maybe transcends that into being a monster,
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: but the only one.
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: Well, that was kind of my other one to go
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: to on any horror occasion is the thing. And I'm like, well,
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: that's just a monster. I was like, well, no. Actually,
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: he's plotting against you more than most villains, actually, and
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: really good at it, being sneaky. So that one becomes
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: a weird gray area, so maybe we'll return for best
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: monsters list. All right, where do we want to begin
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: with our individuals? Although we should probably put a spoiler
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: in right here at the beginning because we're about to
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: ruin all these movies we're talking about, so fair warning.
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: Are we going to just go around and do one
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: apiece and keep rotating?
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: Sure, that works.
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: I can go if we want. All right, so my
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: first one, and it's because it is the first one
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: that occurred to me when we were just villains, and again,
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: this one almost doesn't really fit The plotting part of it,
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: but then because it's one of the first duos, it does.
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: It's Dr. Hans Reinhardt and or Maximilian. Because my first
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: thought was Maximilian is one badass villain. Now, granted, he's
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: a robot. But as we get into it. They're a duo,
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: and at some point, almost, they're the same entity, depending
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: on how you view the end. So, I don't know.
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: I thought that's what Maximilian Schell and... I like that we're.
• 13:31
  Speaker 7: Just starting off with the black hole. Out of all
• 13:33
  Speaker 7: the movies we could have started with, it's a Disney movie.
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: I love the black hole. I don't care. I have
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: had many people tell me I'm wrong and or stupid.
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: I don't care. I still... There's just part of me
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: that loves the black hole. And I think that performance
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: is great. I think there's several really good performances in there.
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: For some people, it does not hold up. It is
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: definitely a slow movie. But I love Maximilian so much.
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: And to be paired with the Doctor, I don't know.
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: I think those two are really fun together. And he becomes, again,
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: I was sort of watching parts of it this weekend
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: trying to come up with all these. He's like Jason by.
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: The end of it.
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: He's just smashing through walls coming after Vincent. He's just
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: a killing machine at that point, literally. So I don't know.
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: I just loved him as a villain sort of separate,
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: but he only works because he's doing nothing but the
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: bidding of.
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: The other character. Well, it's kind of like the relationship
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: in Saturn 3 with Harvey Keitel and that robot. And
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: that robot. They're very symbiotic.
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: Which is another nice sort of forgotten killer robot.
• 14:35
  Speaker 7: It's also another sort of classic. I mean, that's sort
• 14:38
  Speaker 7: of the sci-fi trope of Doctors. Like, you know, he
• 14:40
  Speaker 7: always kind of reminded me a bit of Dr. Morbius
• 14:42
  Speaker 7: from Forbidden Planet 2. Or it's just, you know, the
• 14:45
  Speaker 7: rest of the crew are very dispensable when it comes
• 14:48
  Speaker 7: to his ends and his goals.
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: But the robots are always important.
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 14:53
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 14:53
  Speaker 7: The robot in Forbidden Planet doesn't have that relationship with Morbius.
• 14:58
  Speaker 7: Robbie actually has a conscience, it seems.
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: Maximilian does not. And does not care who he spins
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: his blades into.
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: So, I don't know.
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: That was my initial knee-jerk reaction was, ooh, Maximilian.
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 15:12
  Speaker 7: I guess we're rotating this way. For me, with a
• 15:17
  Speaker 7: lot of... when I thought of like underrated villains, if
• 15:21
  Speaker 7: I feel like a lot of villains in David Lynch
• 15:23
  Speaker 7: films are, are both terrifying, but also kind of funny.
• 15:27
  Speaker 7: And that was something I kind of thought about is
• 15:29
  Speaker 7: villains to where every time they come on screen, even
• 15:31
  Speaker 7: if I've seen the movie multiple times, you know, do
• 15:34
  Speaker 7: I cringe? But at the same time, it's like, I
• 15:37
  Speaker 7: think about kind of, are they quotable too? And, you know,
• 15:41
  Speaker 7: I wanted to only kind of keep it to one. So,
• 15:43
  Speaker 7: you know, I, I toyed over, um, Robert Blake's character
• 15:47
  Speaker 7: from Lost Highway. I think he's just called the Stranger.
• 15:49
  Speaker 7: Because that's so terrifying when he comes up and does
• 15:52
  Speaker 7: the whole phone gag.
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: The phone stick is great.
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: It's disturbing to this day.
• 15:56
  Speaker 7: Even though I'm not a huge fan of Mulholland Drive,
• 15:59
  Speaker 7: the cowboy is such a strange villain. But I think
• 16:05
  Speaker 7: the granddaddy of all David Lynch villains would have to
• 16:09
  Speaker 7: be Frank Booth. Just because Dennis Hopper's character... It's funny,
• 16:13
  Speaker 7: anytime people... put these lists, I'm surprised that he just
• 16:16
  Speaker 7: never seems to make it on there. He almost borders
• 16:20
  Speaker 7: on being a monster monster, because we were talking about
• 16:23
  Speaker 7: that before, whether a monster could be like a creature.
• 16:27
  Speaker 7: But it's so weird that when I also think about
• 16:31
  Speaker 7: Blue Velvet, nobody makes me laugh more than Frank Booth, too.
• 16:37
  Speaker 7: And it's such a weird... You only get that little
• 16:42
  Speaker 7: surface of what his world is like. The closest you
• 16:46
  Speaker 7: ever get to understanding what Frank's world is like is
• 16:49
  Speaker 7: when you go to Ben's house and you see Dean
• 16:52
  Speaker 7: Stockwell in drag and all this weird stuff going on.
• 16:55
  Speaker 7: It's like, my God, you'd want to hang out with
• 16:59
  Speaker 7: him just because you're curious, but you're terrified, too, at
• 17:02
  Speaker 7: any moment.
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: He's a smooth motherfucker.
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 17:06
  Speaker 7: So, I don't know.
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: Suave. Suave.
• 17:11
  Speaker 7: And just seeing Dennis Hopper just tearing up the scenery
• 17:15
  Speaker 7: as Frank, you can tell.
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and that was really kind of Dennis' return. He'd
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: been kind of lost out there in the wilderness for
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: a long time, and then he came back really forceful
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: as that character. I loved him. But I would still
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: find myself shrinking down in the theater seat when he'd
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: pop into the scene and say, oh, my God, there
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: he is.
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: He is disturbingly.
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: He's amazing.
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he is disturbingly. frightening because he's so unhinged that
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: you really don't know what he's going to do from
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: moment to moment. There are plenty of villains that have
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: some sort of overarching plan, and as long as it
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: falls within what gets them to their end result, they'll
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: do something semi-logical.
• 17:54
  Speaker 7: You do not have that problem with Frankfurt. And David
• 17:57
  Speaker 7: Lynch is really good at making villains like that within
• 18:00
  Speaker 7: his films, because I would even say, I can't think
• 18:03
  Speaker 7: of his name, Robert Laggia's character in Lost Highway. At first, he's...
• 18:08
  Speaker 7: He's entertaining, but then, you know, you're like, okay, this
• 18:12
  Speaker 7: guy's fun. Let's hang out with him on.
• 18:13
  Speaker 8: A car ride.
• 18:13
  Speaker 7: And then he just runs the guy off the road.
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: He's like, Jesus.
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: I'll use my turn signal next time, I swear.
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: But that actually, that was one I almost put on
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: my list.
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: Mr. Durant. That was his name. It took me a minute.
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I wasn't sure if Frank Booth was. Again,
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: I felt like maybe that ends up on everybody's list.
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: I feel like it should.
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: It should, but I think it is forgotten.
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: I feel like it should, but yeah.
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: He's amazing.
• 18:37
  Speaker 8: And that, I'm sure you all know this, but David
• 18:39
  Speaker 8: Lynch originally wanted Harry D. Stanton to play that role.
• 18:41
  Speaker 8: And I can't imagine that in my head. Although I
• 18:45
  Speaker 8: wonder if David Lynch knew something we don't know and
• 18:47
  Speaker 8: could have tapped into some deep, dark, evil Harry.
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't get that intensity.
• 18:52
  Speaker 8: Yeah, it doesn't make sense to me either.
• 18:54
  Speaker 7: Yeah, I read that apparently Dennis Hopper read the role
• 18:59
  Speaker 7: and told... told David Lynch it's like I am Frank
• 19:04
  Speaker 7: Booth it's like how he he promoted it he's like
• 19:07
  Speaker 7: you have to cast me because I am Frank Booth.
• 19:09
  Speaker 8: That would make me not want to work with somebody
• 19:12
  Speaker 8: that could have gone either way I'm glad that you
• 19:14
  Speaker 8: mentioned those villains though because Willem Dafoe in Wild at
• 19:17
  Speaker 8: Heart was one that almost made my list Bobby Peru
• 19:20
  Speaker 8: is one as well and laughable but until it's really not.
• 19:24
  Speaker 7: Bobby Peru's gum line on his teeth is just terrifying is.
• 19:30
  Speaker 8: It my turn? sure I went with, well, I don't know.
• 19:34
  Speaker 8: I don't know how to order these. I guess 10,
• 19:36
  Speaker 8: I'll go with Eric Boghossian's character Neville in Larry Cohen's
• 19:40
  Speaker 8: Special Effects, which was not a movie that I'd seen
• 19:43
  Speaker 8: until a couple of years ago. They actually did a
• 19:46
  Speaker 8: Larry Cohen retrospective at the American Cinematheque, which I feel
• 19:49
  Speaker 8: like was much overdue and have you as everybody seen
• 19:54
  Speaker 8: the movie I'm not it's I won't say much about it.
• 19:58
  Speaker 8: It's Hitchcockian. There's a double. There's a damsel. There's a very,
• 20:04
  Speaker 8: very seedy Eric Boghossian playing a movie director whose career
• 20:08
  Speaker 8: has gone south, so he realizes that maybe a snuff
• 20:12
  Speaker 8: film is the way to go.
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: And it is haunting. 80-ish. Somewhere.
• 20:18
  Speaker 8: I cannot give you a year.
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: That was the bulk of his crazy stuff, but still.
• 20:23
  Speaker 8: Yeah, I don't know if it was pre- or post-talk radio,
• 20:24
  Speaker 8: but it was right around there somewhere.
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: Interesting. Well, this kind of ties in all the way
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: back to what you were talking about, a monster in
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: his creation or his emissary, and also somebody who's comical,
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: yet terrifying. And I thought of Don Logan, played by
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: Ben Kingsley in Sexy Beast.
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that was a great one. On a short list.
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: And his boss, Teddy Bass, who was Ian McShane. Yeah.
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: So you've got these... Ian's the boss, and Don is
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: the emissary.
• 20:57
  Speaker 7: Yeah, and Don is.
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: Ian McShane is one of the great, cool, calm, snake-like villains.
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: He's terrific. I love the man. And then you've got
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: Ben Kingsley completely turning it around, playing someone as rabid
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: as Don Logan, who is unpredictable and dangerous, but funny.
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: You laugh at just how far this guy goes. And
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: I love both those guys in Sexy Beast. Things get
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: pretty shocking and perverse with both of them, which I
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: really liked. It's a movie I really, really enjoy.
• 21:27
  Speaker 7: Yeah, I remember the first time I saw Sexy Beast,
• 21:30
  Speaker 7: there was just a point to where I was sitting
• 21:31
  Speaker 7: there and it's like I'd lost count of how many times,
• 21:35
  Speaker 7: you know, Kingsley had just yelled, fuck it. And you're
• 21:38
  Speaker 7: just like, ah, this is the man who played Gandhi.
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: What a sweet language.
• 21:43
  Speaker 7: Yeah, complete opposite end of the spectrum for him.
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: He's just, you know, you're riveted to him. Yeah. I
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: love the scene on the plane where he's just like smoking.
• 21:53
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: You know how things are going to go. And just
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: everything about him is terrific.
• 21:59
  Speaker 7: Now, that's one that almost ended up on my list
• 22:02
  Speaker 7: just because, yeah, I just love that character.
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: It occurred to me.
• 22:05
  Speaker 7: And he does. He falls into that realm of someone
• 22:07
  Speaker 7: who's both terrifying, but yet he also gives you probably
• 22:11
  Speaker 7: the most laughs within the movie, too. But they're like
• 22:13
  Speaker 7: that uncomfortable sort of, you know, you're laughing almost out
• 22:17
  Speaker 7: of fright at some of the stuff that he does,
• 22:19
  Speaker 7: at least the first time that you see him.
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: And, you know, in kind of an audacious move, he
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: ends up getting murdered. And then the movie keeps going.
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: And then you have to encounter Ian McShane, who's got
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: those cold, cold, cold eyes.
• 22:33
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: And you don't know how things are going to go
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: with him ever. So I always enjoy watching him. Just
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: saw him again. Well, he was the other night. He's
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: in John Wick 2. One or two? Two. Two looks
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: pretty fun. And he was wonderful as always.
• 22:49
  Speaker 5: Nice.
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: He's found a good ride playing those kind of characters. Yeah,
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: I like him a lot.
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: Well, next up for mine is probably the most normal
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: and mainstream. It is one that I would guess would
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: end up on lists somewhere, but I don't know. And
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: this is almost like an Oscar version of like, just
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: for the body of work around this time, he's a
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: hell of a villain. So the one I picked was
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: Stansfield from The Professional. and Gary Oldman being an insane person.
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: Because my, again, my initial reaction was, oh, Drexel from
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: True Romance. Drexel has, and I went back and watched it,
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: maybe four minutes on screen. Like, it is so, but
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: to me, like, that's the first thing I think of
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: in True Romance, is that performance. And like, there's a
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: lot of crazy performance. They have Dennis Hopper and Christopher
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: Walken being probably the other scene. The leads don't ever
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: get thought of initially as that.
• 23:47
  Speaker 7: No, because Drexel stands out so much more just because
• 23:50
  Speaker 7: in that little.
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: It is.
• 23:51
  Speaker 7: It's only one scene that Gary Oldman's character's in, but
• 23:54
  Speaker 7: it's just like... He's so... He's got the dead eye.
• 23:57
  Speaker 7: He's got the dreadlocks. He's just chowing down on Chinese
• 24:01
  Speaker 7: food and offering it.
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: And he does that weird... he does that weird thing
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: with his voice. Like he, he's mixing together so many
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: different bastardized ways of speaking that I'm just like, I
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: don't even know where he's supposed to be from or
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: what he's supposed to be. He's just being, you know,
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: in charge, obviously. So that one was kind of my initial,
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: but I'm like, that's barely even a cameo. Like it's
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: so minor, but I'm like, that was that time. And
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: that's when I started thinking, I was like, that was
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: that time. Like, I love Gary Oldman in the 90s,
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: and he's still turning in solid work now. But I'm like,
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: that was the point. Like, coming in probably from Dracula on,
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: I'm like.
• 24:39
  Speaker 7: Yeah, he did Zorg. He did the.
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: I can't think of his name.
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: Hannibal.
• 24:46
  Speaker 7: The fellow who.
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
• 24:49
  Speaker 7: Yeah, Mason.
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: Well, then Fifth Element. Like, again, there's another one I
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: could throw him in. Yeah, it's just... Oh, my God.
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: But then, yeah, even like his... Beethoven at the time
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: is weird. I don't even dislike him as Dr.
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: Smith.
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: And that movie's a nightmare. But I'm like, his performance
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: is pretty good.
• 25:07
  Speaker 7: Even in the movie The Contender, he's an antagonizing politician
• 25:13
  Speaker 7: or judge. It's been a while. It was just like
• 25:17
  Speaker 7: he was your go-to villain for so much in the
• 25:21
  Speaker 7: late 90s all the way through.
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: The early 2000s.
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: And that was the ones I started thinking of was
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: right in that early 90s era and like 94 is
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: the professional. And again, going back and watching, I'm like,
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: talk about unhinged. I mean, there is like, on screen,
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: he is so over the top and insane to the
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: point that I'm like, I don't think you could still
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: hold down a job as a cop. Yeah. I think
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: you would have probably gotten fired by now because I mean,
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: he's just wandering around the hallways of a place that
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: he just shot several people in broad daylight talking about
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: composers and being pissed at this guy for like ruining
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: his suit in the middle of the blood bath. So
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: I'm like, it's just, it's insanity. And, He makes it work, though. Again,
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: I'm like, this would be laughable if it were a
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: lesser actor, but he's so good that I'm like, no,
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: I kind of buy him just screaming at people because
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: he pulls it off. Like, it's almost to the point
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: of ridiculous how over the top his character is, but
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: yet in those scenes, I'm like, he's so damn intense
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: it works. So that was the one I just centered on,
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: but I'm like, everything he did in the 90s was
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: pretty damn impressive.
• 26:33
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: But yeah, just the professional. He's an insane person.
• 26:36
  Speaker 7: He might have got away with that just because everyone
• 26:38
  Speaker 7: at the police station might have been too terrified.
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: Well, probably.
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: Everybody he was working with was corrupt anyway, so maybe
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: they were all just like, ah, he punches in every.
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: Once in a while. Don't worry about it. Yeah.
• 26:51
  Speaker 7: Rotating over to me, we were talking about punching Nazis earlier,
• 26:54
  Speaker 7: so I'll go with my favorite Nazi, and that would
• 26:57
  Speaker 7: be Tote from Raiders of the Lost Ark.
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 26:59
  Speaker 7: Just because he is such a memorable... sidekick villain that
• 27:05
  Speaker 7: a lot of people can't even remember like you know
• 27:07
  Speaker 7: the name of the main villain you know that it's
• 27:09
  Speaker 7: renee belloc but um yeah but to me tote is
• 27:16
  Speaker 7: this character less is more with him um you know
• 27:19
  Speaker 7: his dialogue is minimal um but you just kind of
• 27:23
  Speaker 7: take it as he is like this right hand almost
• 27:25
  Speaker 7: to hitler that just is reaching into the.
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: Film and he also comes off more and violent than
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: he ever really is. Like, in the fight, he kind
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: of gets his ass kicked. Later on, you assume he's
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: going to, like, beat the hell out of our people
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: that need to be interrogated. And instead, he hangs his cloak. So,
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: I mean, like, as you get to those scenes, it's
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: like he's sort of coasting on the Nazi vibe so
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: much that I'm like, you ever really do anything in
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: the movie?
• 27:52
  Speaker 7: What's terrifying about him is just how calm and collected
• 27:55
  Speaker 7: he is amidst all of this. You know, when he
• 27:58
  Speaker 7: first comes into the bar and just, he tries to
• 28:01
  Speaker 7: get Marion to cooperate and she's like, no, I'm not interested.
• 28:04
  Speaker 7: And so instantly he's just going to torture her. He's
• 28:06
  Speaker 7: just like, all right, well, on to this then. But,
• 28:10
  Speaker 7: and of course he's just responsible for one of my favorite,
• 28:14
  Speaker 7: you know, plot devices in any film and that is
• 28:16
  Speaker 7: just the fact that the Nazis are digging in the
• 28:18
  Speaker 7: wrong place because.
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: Because of the impression in his hand.
• 28:20
  Speaker 7: The impression on his hand was only one side and
• 28:22
  Speaker 7: I'm like, that's such a damned clever... It is. component
• 28:27
  Speaker 7: to that storyline. But no, I mean, he's just... Out
• 28:32
  Speaker 7: of all the Indiana Jones villains, I'd say he has
• 28:35
  Speaker 7: to be probably my favorite and it is just one
• 28:37
  Speaker 7: where you don't know that much about him and that's
• 28:40
  Speaker 7: what always kind of intrigued me, you know, about that character.
• 28:43
  Speaker 5: So....
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: It's on to Lucy.
• 28:46
  Speaker 8: I'm not sure that my number nine qualifies as being
• 28:50
  Speaker 8: underrated because it's probably one of the most overrated actors
• 28:52
  Speaker 8: of all time.
• 28:53
  Speaker 7: I'm skipping around already, so I won't lie.
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: But he's, I think.
• 28:59
  Speaker 8: Often plays a hero and is very miscast in that role.
• 29:01
  Speaker 8: He's much better when he plays an idiot or a villain.
• 29:05
  Speaker 8: And that's Nicolas Cage in Bad Lieutenant 2, Court of Call,
• 29:08
  Speaker 8: New Orleans.
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: Nice.
• 29:11
  Speaker 8: Which is one of the most brilliant performances of all time.
• 29:13
  Speaker 8: And I don't know if it made anybody else's list.
• 29:15
  Speaker 8: I was afraid that it would make everyone's list because
• 29:17
  Speaker 8: it's a genius performance.
• 29:18
  Speaker 7: I don't think about that, but just because, yeah.
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: I've mentioned on the show lately, it's become an ongoing thing.
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: almost a hobby at this point, to turn on Netflix
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: and blindly pick a Nicolas Cage movie I've never heard of.
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: And there are a lot of them. I'm like, I
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: know you've got nine houses to pay for, but good God,
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: he put out a lot of movies that I don't
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: think ever saw theatrical run like it just ended up
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: on netflix i watched one a couple of weeks ago
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: and every once in a while there's one that i'm
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: like oh this is insane good for you and then
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: i'll hit ones where he's kind of boring i'm like
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: he can do great And then he can just phone
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: it in because he's got bills to pay.
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: Depends on his level of vested interest.
• 29:58
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: I think obviously working with Herzog, he definitely had it.
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: Both that and I even thought of the original Bad
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: Lieutenant with Harvey because Harvey's just a monster in that too.
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: But both of those, yeah, really qualify. Going back to Nazis,
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: and this is my first dip deep into cinema because
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: I'm old. Peter Lorre as Beckert in M. Yeah.
• 30:21
  Speaker 7: Excellent which peter loring he was one i just i
• 30:24
  Speaker 7: chewed over so much because i'm like he is a
• 30:26
  Speaker 7: villain but he's also your you know the main yeah
• 30:31
  Speaker 7: m was just one i kept waffling on i'm.
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: Like well it's it's that whole pathos thing yeah where
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: he's as bad as it gets he's a child murderer
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: he's as bad as it gets yet at points you
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: find yourself almost feeling empathy for him yeah Especially when
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: he has to kind of sit there and plead his case. And,
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: you know, you know how it's going to go for
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: him until, you know, another force arrives. But to be
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: at the mercy of both the underworld and the law
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: enforcement establishment, he doesn't have a chance.
• 31:01
  Speaker 7: And he's just, like, begging. He's like, I can't, like,
• 31:03
  Speaker 7: help me.
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: Help me with this.
• 31:05
  Speaker 7: I can't help myself.
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: Compulsion, yeah.
• 31:07
  Speaker 7: He's like, I don't want to do this.
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: As far back as that film goes, it's a pretty
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: unique characterization. You don't see that kind of. look taking
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: it a villain even years later very often but yeah
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: especially when it comes to someone who was a serial
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: killer essentially but yeah.
• 31:20
  Speaker 7: Early 30s that was yeah you know it was incredibly
• 31:24
  Speaker 7: dark for its time even you know the the closing
• 31:28
  Speaker 7: scene to where you know the you know you heard
• 31:31
  Speaker 7: they're like debating everything within the court trialist you know
• 31:34
  Speaker 7: what should we do with him and you just see
• 31:37
  Speaker 7: the the women from the village outside of the courtroom
• 31:40
  Speaker 7: just talking it's like Do you think they're going to
• 31:42
  Speaker 7: hang him or not? It's just like, we'll bring back
• 31:45
  Speaker 7: our kids. That's what it ends on. That's so dark.
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: It's a first. Police procedural elements in that, too. I
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: never saw things like that in a film prior to that.
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: So it's very unique. And Laurie, of course, was terrific
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: at just about everything. But that's still his darkest role. Yeah.
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: I'm a big fan of that. All right. So this one.
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: Again, this one I feel like would turn up on
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: a lot of people's regular lists, but I'm going a
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: different direction. I'm going with Buddy Ackerman from Swimming with Sharks,
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: played by Kevin Spacey. Everybody's going to go John Doe.
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: You're going to have some people. I mean, Verbal, by
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: the end of the story, is certainly a villain. But yeah,
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: I was just kind of going through my accumulation of movies,
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: and I'm looking at them going, people that just that
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: performance sort of makes the movie. And it's like, that
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: movie doesn't exist without Kevin Spacey showing up with all
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: of his Kevin Spacey-ness and just being a horrible human being.
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: And again, going back and looking at it, I'm like,
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: it's not just that he does horrible things. He takes
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: joy in how much he torments our main character. And
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: everything he does, there's just this glee to being able
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: to put it on someone else. And you get further
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: into him and you realize there are reasons he is
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: the way he is. And he certainly, you know, fought
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: his way to get this point in his career and
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: sacrificed to get there. And he's like, screw you, it's
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: your turn, buddy. But again, there's something weird about him
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: that like, even when he is being held hostage and
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: being tortured, he will still find a way in a
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: scene to turn the tables just verbally and be like,
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: kind of put him in his place because he can,
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: because he's that damn evil. Like even as he's being tortured,
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: he can still kind of turn him and be like,
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: just sort of shut down everything he's trying to use
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: as his attack on him because he's just that devious
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: and mean.
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: I thought, yeah, that one's kind of a movie that's
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: been forgotten at this point, but it's a hell of
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: a performance. If you can tolerate that for an hour
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: and a half.
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 34:02
  Speaker 7: Now that I'm, Because I kind of keep skipping around
• 34:05
  Speaker 7: based on just where the rotation ends up. So to
• 34:09
  Speaker 7: kind of lead off of that in the way of
• 34:11
  Speaker 7: characters that are incredibly manipulative, and they almost make the
• 34:15
  Speaker 7: movie hard to watch just because of their personality and
• 34:20
  Speaker 7: their motivation, and also in the way of movies that
• 34:23
  Speaker 7: have kind of gotten forgotten, I have Chad from In
• 34:27
  Speaker 7: the Company of Men.
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: That, yeah, that kind of occurred to me as I
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: was doing this one. I was like, this is a
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: similar card.
• 34:34
  Speaker 7: Just because, you know, within like the opening premise, you're
• 34:38
  Speaker 7: just like, well, let's just hurt somebody. And, you know,
• 34:41
  Speaker 7: they pick the sweetest, most vulnerable girl at their work,
• 34:46
  Speaker 7: you know, so that way they could have this, you know,
• 34:48
  Speaker 7: horrendous plot of just, well, let's both date her. And
• 34:52
  Speaker 7: so she thinks she's the most popular girl at work.
• 34:54
  Speaker 7: And then we're just going to dump her at the
• 34:56
  Speaker 7: same time just to hurt her. It's like, From the get-go,
• 35:00
  Speaker 7: you know, that's all you're going to watch for the
• 35:01
  Speaker 7: next hour and a half, and it just, there are
• 35:05
  Speaker 7: points to where you almost get lost in the romance,
• 35:10
  Speaker 7: to where you keep stepping back and remind yourself, no,
• 35:13
  Speaker 7: this is all them manipulating her for their own warped
• 35:16
  Speaker 7: sense of humor, and then the fact that it goes
• 35:18
  Speaker 7: even further, because I can't remember the name of the
• 35:22
  Speaker 7: second character that is working with him, but he has
• 35:26
  Speaker 7: basically a conscience and afterwards he is going to Chad
• 35:29
  Speaker 7: and he's just like, man, I feel horrible about all this.
• 35:32
  Speaker 7: We've got to, you know, I don't, I don't know
• 35:33
  Speaker 7: what to do.
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: And, and Aaron.
• 35:35
  Speaker 7: Eckhart's character just sort of walks him into the bedroom
• 35:39
  Speaker 7: and shows him where his wife is asleep. And he's like,
• 35:42
  Speaker 7: what did your wife come back? He's like, no, she
• 35:44
  Speaker 7: never left. Cause the whole, the whole way he kind
• 35:47
  Speaker 7: of talked him into it is he's like, well, let's
• 35:49
  Speaker 7: get back at women. Cause my wife, you know, is
• 35:52
  Speaker 7: screwing me over. And, At that point, you know, the
• 35:55
  Speaker 7: NFL's like, wait, that.
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: Was the case.
• 35:59
  Speaker 7: Why would you do that to me? And he just goes, well,
• 36:01
  Speaker 7: because I could. And, like, it is just this cold,
• 36:05
  Speaker 7: cold moment. And, you know, as this guy is just, like,
• 36:10
  Speaker 7: in tears and he wanders off, Eckhart just goes back
• 36:14
  Speaker 7: to the bed and his wife's just like, I love you.
• 36:16
  Speaker 7: And he's just smiling in bed smugly. Like, it's just
• 36:18
  Speaker 7: this horrible, horrible human being that, You know, with a
• 36:23
  Speaker 7: lot of these villains we're talking about, they're very unrealistic.
• 36:26
  Speaker 7: To me, it's frightening to imagine that someone like that
• 36:30
  Speaker 7: could exist because that is, you know, just a human
• 36:33
  Speaker 7: being that just has absolutely no morals whatsoever about just
• 36:38
  Speaker 7: the way he lives his life. So he's one where
• 36:42
  Speaker 7: it's following him makes the movie almost unwatchable just because
• 36:46
  Speaker 7: of what he's doing.
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: Not a lot of fun rewatches on there.
• 36:49
  Speaker 8: I wish I thought of that one. That's a really
• 36:50
  Speaker 8: good one. In terms of sociopaths, if we're sticking with
• 36:54
  Speaker 8: the theme, I'm going to go with Bill Paxton's character
• 36:57
  Speaker 8: Chet from Weird Science. Simply because he just makes that movie.
• 37:04
  Speaker 8: And it's the best Bill Paxton performance there is. And
• 37:06
  Speaker 8: there's many great Bill Paxton performances. But nothing, nothing comes
• 37:09
  Speaker 8: close to Chet.
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: Game over, man.
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: This whole thing's over now. Just put her in charge.
• 37:15
  Speaker 8: Literally all I have to say about that.
• 37:16
  Speaker 7: Paxton can be frightening. I mean, frailty.
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I was just thinking frailty. I'm like, he can
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: be a good actor.
• 37:23
  Speaker 8: Did he direct frailty too?
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: Yes, he did.
• 37:25
  Speaker 7: Yeah, I forgot he did.
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: Even in Near Dark, he's the most gleeful of the vampires.
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: He dances around cutting people's throats with his spurs. He's immortal.
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: Nothing's going to stop him. So he can play that
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: kind of character very, very well. I prefer him playing
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: that kind of character. I couldn't buy him in Titanic.
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: He was just too smarmy. Too sweet. But no, that's
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: just terrific. And he ends up being, I think in
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: Weird Science, he can turn into some sort of blob monster.
• 37:58
  Speaker 8: Oh sure, he gets his.
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: His comeuppance, if you will.
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: I guess I'm going to dive into David Cronenberg. Because
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: he's always rich with Really odd people. A lot of
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: his characters obviously may start out as protagonists and end
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: up becoming villains like, you know, on the fly. But
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: I recently finally saw Maps to the Stars. So I
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: would nominate the entire Weiss family from that. But I
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: think my favorite villain in his films is Barry Convex
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: in Videodrome.
• 38:36
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: If you look at it now, he's like the birth
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: of the alt-right. He's going to hijack this technology to
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: clean up things. The whole philosophy expressed throughout that film
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: that he is embodying, he has a philosophy that is dangerous.
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: The idea that North America is getting very, very soft
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: while the rest of the world is getting very, very tough.
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: He's going to utilize this technology to clean out what
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: he thinks are the lesser individuals. And he's, you know,
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: corporate chill. He's this smarmy eyeglass salesman. But he also,
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: as he says in the film, he says, well, we
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: make eyeglasses available to third world countries and missile guidance
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: systems for NATO. I think he's just a great, great character.
• 39:28
  Speaker 7: And he's another one where it is that less is more.
• 39:31
  Speaker 7: He only appears in a few scenes.
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: But when he's there, you're like, wow.
• 39:35
  Speaker 7: And you want to know more instantly about his character,
• 39:38
  Speaker 7: but it's just you only get that little taste of him.
• 39:40
  Speaker 7: And then you then go back into some odd hallucination sequence.
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: And even in that, you've got a protagonist like Max Wren,
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: who's not such a nice guy. And his position in
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: all this is still extremely gray at the end. You
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: don't know what's going to happen. You don't know what
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: side he falls on. And neither does he. I guess
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: that's still my favorite of Cronenberg's movies. I'm a big
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: fan of Videodrome. Which I first saw at the Kentucky.
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: Because they wouldn't show it in Louisville.
• 40:11
  Speaker 5: Really?
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: No. It was part of that big push in 82,
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: the summer of 82 with Universal. They put big ads
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: out about all these great films they're going to put out,
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: like Dark Crystal and The Thing, and Videodrome was on
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: that list. And the poster was up at Showcase, and
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: then the poster was down at Showcase. And then I
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: asked the manager, what's up? He said, they think we're
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: too stupid here. Nice. And it was almost a year
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: before it played, and it played in Lexington at the Kentucky,
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: which was my first trip down there. Drove all the
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: way down for midnight.
• 40:41
  Speaker 8: I love that.
• 40:42
  Speaker 9: Yeah.
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: And it was a surreal evening. Drive all the way
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: down to this beautiful theater, which I always loved, to
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: see Videodrome in there with about 15 people. But that
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: was it. Yeah, yeah. This was back when the speed
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: of media was so much slower than it is now.
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: There had already been books published which talked about Videodrome
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: before I'd even seen it. Books had already come out.
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: It holds a special place for me.
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: I don't think you can explain that world to people now.
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: No, they don't understand.
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: If you didn't live it, well, why didn't you just
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: stream it?
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: Cable was there, but that was six months to a
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: year later.
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: And they had six movies that they played over and over.
• 41:27
  Speaker 7: And I suppose Cronenberg was still building an audience, too,
• 41:31
  Speaker 7: at that point.
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: Scanners had been, what, the year before? And scanners had
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: been big. And this was his, well, let me get
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: my hands back on what I want to do.
• 41:41
  Speaker 7: It's just too weird for Universal.
• 41:44
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 41:44
  Speaker 7: Revik is a good villain as well.
• 41:46
  Speaker 8: Oh, yeah.
• 41:46
  Speaker 7: In the Cronenberg universe. Actually, I'm almost wondering, like, are we,
• 41:50
  Speaker 7: how many of us have Michael Ironside on our list?
• 41:52
  Speaker 5: Oh, yeah.
• 41:53
  Speaker 7: Because he was another one, like, Oldman, where he played
• 41:56
  Speaker 7: villains all the time. Though he was more 80s than
• 41:58
  Speaker 7: Oldman's 90s.
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: He was a lot of straight-to-BHS.
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: There's so many times I'd be like, and he's in
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: this too?
• 42:04
  Speaker 7: Though I hadn't even thought about that in the way
• 42:07
  Speaker 7: it's a newer film, but his character in Turbo Kid... Oh, yeah.
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: He's playing on his character in everything else in the 80s,
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: so it works perfectly. Well, from the twisted world of
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: Cronenberg to the twisted world of the Bible, I went with... Again,
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: this only works as the... And it was another one
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: of the very first things I thought of. Caiaphas and
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: Annis from Jesus Christ Superstar. The most conniving duo. Oh,
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: there's something about... Well, again, I've never... considered myself overly
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: religious and now it's gotten less and less as time's
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: gone on so now if there's like a box you
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: have to fill out religion I'm just Jesus Christ superstar
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: like that's nothing else that goes along with that religion
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: just that movie alone is about all I have to
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: work with now but the two of them because again
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: and that's kind of why I like that movie's take
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: on it so much because we've seen this story plenty
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: of times and that one in particular and maybe was
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: the first time it's like pilot's not the villain Like,
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: Violet wants to help him as much as he can.
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: He's like, I'm forced into this position. I'm here because
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: it's my job. I'll do my job because it's what
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: I have to do to save face in front of people.
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: But he's like, I don't have any problem with you.
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: You're insane. But, you know, it's like he's never.
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: I just love that performance from pilot and it only
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: works because you've got these two. It's like King Herod's
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: an idiot in every performance ever. So it's like, you've
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: got these two that from the very beginning of the
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: movie are just planning and using every little angle they
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: can to, and again, it's a perfect little way to,
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: to use a nice example of religion being used to
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: force their hand in politics and just to get their
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: way so that they get more followers and more money.
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: And like, it's just such a nice little window into
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: the early version of like greed and corruption in organized
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: religion from these two in weird hats, singing and dancing
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: on a big structure out in the desert. I.
• 44:12
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: I've just loved those two actors in those two roles
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: since the first time I saw it. So the evils
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: of the Bible.
• 44:21
  Speaker 7: Uh, I was debating earlier as to whether I was
• 44:25
  Speaker 7: going to branch off of you or Dave. And now
• 44:27
  Speaker 7: I'm going to go back to branching off of Dave.
• 44:31
  Speaker 7: He mentioned M, and you have this main character to
• 44:34
  Speaker 7: where there's a tremendous amount of pathos behind him. And
• 44:38
  Speaker 7: throughout most of the film, you were following this character.
• 44:42
  Speaker 7: With M, though, his motivations are a little bit clearer.
• 44:45
  Speaker 7: He can't control himself. But I don't know if anyone
• 44:48
  Speaker 7: is familiar with the movie Mademoiselle. Tony Richardson did it
• 44:52
  Speaker 7: the year after he did The Loved One. And it's
• 44:56
  Speaker 7: a French film starring Jean Moreau, who was in Elevator
• 45:01
  Speaker 7: to the Gallows and Jules and Jim. But the film
• 45:05
  Speaker 7: opens up with this very prim and proper woman in
• 45:09
  Speaker 7: like this 19th century French village. And she just goes
• 45:13
  Speaker 7: up to the dam and just tears it open. And
• 45:15
  Speaker 7: it comes down and it floods the fields and you
• 45:18
  Speaker 7: have all these animals that are drowning. And it's within
• 45:20
  Speaker 7: the first few minutes. And then you start learning that
• 45:23
  Speaker 7: basically someone has been tormenting this lovely little town and
• 45:29
  Speaker 7: no one knows who. Somebody's been poisoning the water in
• 45:33
  Speaker 7: the wells. Somebody has been setting fire to houses. And
• 45:38
  Speaker 7: everyone is just going crazy, almost on a witch hunt
• 45:41
  Speaker 7: trying to figure out who. And she just happens to
• 45:43
  Speaker 7: be the school teacher for the town. And she's like
• 45:46
  Speaker 7: this beloved woman to where everyone likes her. And the
• 45:50
  Speaker 7: entire film, you just watch her be very nice to everyone.
• 45:53
  Speaker 7: And then when she's alone, she goes and she commits
• 45:55
  Speaker 7: these atrocities. And you're never really sure why she's doing
• 46:01
  Speaker 7: any of this. It's almost like she... There's something dark
• 46:05
  Speaker 7: within her that loves the very fact that no one
• 46:09
  Speaker 7: does suspect her. And that is the entire film is
• 46:13
  Speaker 7: just watching her go through it. A lot of people
• 46:15
  Speaker 7: suspect this woodsman that's come in from out of town.
• 46:18
  Speaker 7: They're like, oh, he's a stranger to the town, so
• 46:20
  Speaker 7: he probably did it. And she is the only person
• 46:22
  Speaker 7: who's coming to his defense. He could be her out,
• 46:26
  Speaker 7: but she's coming to his defense like, no, no, no, please,
• 46:28
  Speaker 7: just be accepting of strangers in town. And she's very
• 46:32
  Speaker 7: nice to him and she shows him compassion. And there's
• 46:35
  Speaker 7: even like a love affair between them. And then afterwards
• 46:39
  Speaker 7: she was like, oh, when we were together, yeah, he
• 46:43
  Speaker 7: was admitting that he's behind some of this. So the
• 46:44
  Speaker 7: villagers cut him up with axes and tools. And she's
• 46:48
  Speaker 7: just watching just calmly and it just keeps going on
• 46:51
  Speaker 7: about her affairs. And it's like it's an incredibly subtle
• 46:55
  Speaker 7: film in a lot of ways because you never know.
• 46:57
  Speaker 7: But it is it's really, really dark for the time, too.
• 47:01
  Speaker 7: So that was one where I tried to think of, okay,
• 47:05
  Speaker 7: some villains to where it is in that same vein
• 47:08
  Speaker 7: as M, to where there's a tremendous amount of pathos
• 47:11
  Speaker 7: behind this character. You don't know what's driving her to
• 47:14
  Speaker 7: do what she does, other than she just seems to
• 47:16
  Speaker 7: like the fact that everyone holds her up on sort
• 47:19
  Speaker 7: of a pedestal as like this wonderfully nice, polite, just
• 47:22
  Speaker 7: a nice person in the town.
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 47:25
  Speaker 7: And whenever she's got a chance, it's like, oh, I'm
• 47:27
  Speaker 7: going to burn this family's house down. That's just how
• 47:30
  Speaker 7: she's operating.
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: So, no.
• 47:33
  Speaker 7: That was at least one I wanted to throw in there.
• 47:34
  Speaker 8: That sounds incredible. I'm very interested in watching that movie now.
• 47:38
  Speaker 7: It's one where I read about it. I can't remember
• 47:41
  Speaker 7: where I read about it, but I toss it on. And, like,
• 47:42
  Speaker 7: within the first ten minutes, she's already, like, destroying the town.
• 47:45
  Speaker 7: And you're just instantly hooked. Because, I mean, it opens
• 47:48
  Speaker 7: up with that, with her just walking up and just
• 47:50
  Speaker 7: destroying the dam.
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: And just going back. It's like, I don't know.
• 47:54
  Speaker 8: Well, I will shuffle mine to provide a segue with
• 47:58
  Speaker 8: another villainess with inscrutable motives, and that's Millie Perkins' character,
• 48:03
  Speaker 8: The Woman, in Monty Hellman's The Shooting, who also starts
• 48:08
  Speaker 8: off the film by just shooting her perfectly healthy horse
• 48:11
  Speaker 8: to make it look like she's been stranded next to
• 48:14
  Speaker 8: this camp where she is going to enlist the help
• 48:17
  Speaker 8: of a couple of ill-fated gentlemen to go on a
• 48:20
  Speaker 8: mission with her that we don't know what it is.
• 48:22
  Speaker 8: And then there's another, and she's just incredibly cruel to
• 48:25
  Speaker 8: them the entire time and, um, beautifully so. And then
• 48:29
  Speaker 8: I think it's another sort of duo where Jack Nicholson's
• 48:33
  Speaker 8: character is sort of part of it. Um, and he's
• 48:36
  Speaker 8: also fantastic, but, uh, but yeah, Millie Perkins and Jack
• 48:40
  Speaker 8: Nicholson in the shooting.
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: Well, I had a, I had a lady in my
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: list too. Coming up next. This is the one that
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: transcends slightly into the realm of maybe being a monster.
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: This is Simone Simon as Irena in Cat People, the
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: original version, because she starts out very much as a
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: romantic lead. This really exotic, beautiful, quiet, mysterious, artistic girl
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: who you're not sure what's happening, if what's happening to
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: her is psychological or if it is physical. but she
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: comes to believe that if she becomes intimate with the
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: man she's in love with, she will become a panther.
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: She will transform into a cat and kill. And she does.
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: And she fights it, and she fights it, and she
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: fights it, and eventually she surrenders to her darker nature.
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: And it's interesting because it puts you in an odd
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: position as a viewer, especially in the 1940s where you're
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: rooting for her. You don't want her to get caught.
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: You don't want her to get caught. This is something
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: that usually comes along a little later in cinema. Even
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: though you know she's responsible for certain things, you don't
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: want these things to happen to her. Yet they do.
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: And I was just talking earlier, both that movie and
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: Curse of the Cat People, it's an interesting pair of
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: films because these films are where the protagonists are kind
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: of these bland, waspy... people who don't really get a
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: clue when it comes to people who are a little
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: more borderline. They want a nice, quiet, happy life and
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: he happens to marry Irena and it doesn't go that way.
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: And it's the same with Curse because they've got this
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: strange child whose imagination is taking her to odd places
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: and he doesn't want to make the effort to understand it.
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: And I think that's something that Val Luton did in
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: his movies a lot. He played off the normal world
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: against the abnormal world. And you weren't really sure who
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: were the good guys here. And, uh, I think it
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: was most effective in, uh, in cat people.
• 50:44
  Speaker 7: And something I feel like that almost sort of pairs
• 50:46
  Speaker 7: of that too, even though they aren't by Val Ludin is, um, Kureneko,
• 50:50
  Speaker 7: which I think you've seen, um, Japanese film. It translates
• 50:54
  Speaker 7: to black cat, but it, um, basically you've, it's set
• 50:59
  Speaker 7: in feudal Japan to where you, it opens up with, um,
• 51:04
  Speaker 7: A woman, a mother of a soldier and her daughter-in-law.
• 51:09
  Speaker 7: And then this group of samurai just come through. And
• 51:14
  Speaker 7: within the first five minutes, you watch them get raped, killed,
• 51:18
  Speaker 7: house burned down, crops destroyed, everything. And so they turn
• 51:24
  Speaker 7: into angry spirits.
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: And at night.
• 51:28
  Speaker 7: You know, they appear as beautiful women on the road
• 51:30
  Speaker 7: leading to the nearby castle, and they seduce all of
• 51:33
  Speaker 7: these samurai. And when they bring them back and seduce them,
• 51:36
  Speaker 7: they turn into these weird cat-like creatures and claw their
• 51:39
  Speaker 7: throats out. And so it's a fun one to where
• 51:43
  Speaker 7: the premise of that film is there is a samurai
• 51:46
  Speaker 7: who's considered to be this great warrior of the plains,
• 51:48
  Speaker 7: and he's brought in. They're like, all right, this guy's
• 51:50
  Speaker 7: a great samurai. He'll take care of them. Well, it
• 51:52
  Speaker 7: turns out that it's the one woman's son and the
• 51:55
  Speaker 7: other's husband.
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: And in so.
• 51:58
  Speaker 7: Now it's like they're committed to the afterworld to kill samurai.
• 52:03
  Speaker 7: And he's committed to the local magistrate or whatever to
• 52:08
  Speaker 7: destroy these ghosts. But yet you've got that conflict. So
• 52:12
  Speaker 7: it's just kind of in that same vein.
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, very similar. I think they were inspired probably by Luton.
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: It's a little bit like only Baba.
• 52:26
  Speaker 7: Yeah, Onibaba and Kuroneko were both the same director. Shindo,
• 52:33
  Speaker 7: I think, is his last name. I can't remember his
• 52:35
  Speaker 7: first name.
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: I was trying to think of more recent stuff, and
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: I was like, this, to me, was one of those that,
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: to me, it's the sign of a good villain.
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: If even in the face of a not-so-great movie, they
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: come through and are solid as the villain, I went
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: with Kruger from Elysium, which was Sholto Copley. I think
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: he is so phenomenal in that movie. Elysium has its...
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: I still think it's a cool concept. It's got some
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: really great sci-fi ideas thrown out there that they don't
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: totally examine in the right way, but midway in he
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: comes in to like you know take care of our
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: hero and he is just vicious like he is a
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: villain through and through to the point you're like oh
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: my god how are you gonna stop this guy and
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: it comes to a point in the story and because
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: it's sci-fi you're like oh well okay i guess they
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: stopped him no wait he's so evil he's back again
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: and to the point that There's no way he could, oh, nope,
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: there he is. I'll be damned. So he's so, like,
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: vicious that he can't even be stopped by death, essentially. Because,
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: I don't know, it's just one of those, like, that
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: performance was surprising. Like, I've seen him in other stuff,
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: and he's good. Like, District 9, he's great in. But, again,
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: he's such a weaselly little character. Like, he's kind of
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: the villain in the beginning, and then he becomes our hero.
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: And you start to side with him, you know, the
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: way that he starts to see the world differently and
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: better and better. in our opinion, and even stuff like
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: I didn't hate him in Oldboy. I thought he was
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: a great addition. I know people don't like the fact
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: that they remade it at all, but I'm like, as
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: its own movie, I think it stands on its own
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: different take on that story, and he, I felt like,
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: did a great job coming through at the end with
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: having a weird, twisted villain, but this one, I think
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: it's so interesting because he is a, Kruger is just
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: He doesn't have any stakes in anything, really. He is
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: a mercenary. He is a man for hire. My job
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: is to take care of this guy and to cause
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: destruction wherever they say I need to. And that's the
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: only thing he's concerned about. He has no personal feelings
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: on anything. He is just a heartless bastard who is
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: there to do his job. And that's how he sees it.
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: And he's just horrible.
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: Like, I don't know.
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: That's one of those I left and I was just like, well,
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: it was worth it just for him. Like, that performance
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: makes it worth watching the movie as a whole.
• 55:09
  Speaker 7: You just gave me the perfect segue. Because as soon
• 55:12
  Speaker 7: as you said more modern villain, I'm like, who is
• 55:14
  Speaker 7: the most modern villain I've got on my list over here?
• 55:18
  Speaker 7: Lee Woo-jin, who actually is, who he ended up playing
• 55:21
  Speaker 7: in the remake of Oldboy. So to me, I thought, okay,
• 55:26
  Speaker 7: in the way of just villainous plots, that has to
• 55:32
  Speaker 7: be the most long-running villain convoluted, but also, for lack
• 55:37
  Speaker 7: of a better phrase, fucked up plot that hardly any,
• 55:41
  Speaker 7: you know, most screen villains have come up with, to
• 55:43
  Speaker 7: where he's designed this, you know, plot that lasts 15
• 55:47
  Speaker 7: years for the sole purpose of getting this guy to
• 55:52
  Speaker 7: accidentally sleep with his own daughter. And it's like, well,
• 55:55
  Speaker 7: why did he do it? And it just turns out, oh, well,
• 55:57
  Speaker 7: you were running your mouth about my sister back when
• 55:59
  Speaker 7: we were in school.
• 56:00
  Speaker 2: It's like, that's it.
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: Like, that's it.
• 56:03
  Speaker 7: It's like he's used all of his wealth and all
• 56:05
  Speaker 7: of his time and power to get back at a
• 56:08
  Speaker 7: guy for that.
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: See, that's kind of why I like the remake. I
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: think the remake adjusts the story to the point that
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, there are stakes now. And the way
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: it wraps up is totally different, too. It changes the
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: rules in that second half of that movie that I
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: kind of liked, actually.
• 56:25
  Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean, for me, what I think I liked
• 56:27
  Speaker 7: about the fact that he was bound and determined to
• 56:30
  Speaker 7: do that as a villain is his mantra throughout all
• 56:32
  Speaker 7: of it is he keeps saying, whether a grain of
• 56:35
  Speaker 7: sand or a rock, both sink the same in water.
• 56:38
  Speaker 7: And it just, to him... It doesn't matter that it
• 56:41
  Speaker 7: was a very minor wrong. All that matters to him
• 56:44
  Speaker 7: is you committed a wrong.
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: You have wronged me.
• 56:46
  Speaker 7: And that is that is it. And, you know, it's
• 56:50
  Speaker 7: also just an incredibly tragic character as well. It's a
• 56:54
  Speaker 7: very sort of Shakespearean villain in that sense, just to
• 56:59
  Speaker 7: where he goes between just smugly grinning about what he's
• 57:03
  Speaker 7: doing to just like weeping about just. the overall pain
• 57:07
  Speaker 7: that all of this is causing him to even exact
• 57:09
  Speaker 7: this plan, even though it's what it's been, he's been
• 57:11
  Speaker 7: living towards. And then after he finally, you know, exacts
• 57:15
  Speaker 7: it and it's like, all right, I brought him to
• 57:16
  Speaker 7: his knees. He's just like, well, that's it. Just blows
• 57:19
  Speaker 7: his brains out.
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: Mission accomplished.
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 57:22
  Speaker 8: I have no segue from that.
• 57:25
  Speaker 5: Evil.
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: Evil is our segue.
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 57:30
  Speaker 8: No, nothing. So I'm going to reel it back in
• 57:33
  Speaker 8: a little and go with... This is just a domestic
• 57:37
  Speaker 8: villain in a really micro level, but I think as
• 57:43
  Speaker 8: evil as anybody we've really discussed. John Cassavetes' character Jim
• 57:47
  Speaker 8: in Minnie and Moskowitz, who is the married man with
• 57:49
  Speaker 8: whom Minnie had been having the affair.
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: whose.
• 57:51
  Speaker 8: Sole purpose seemingly is to destroy all of the women
• 57:54
  Speaker 8: that he comes into any contact with whatsoever. Um, My
• 57:58
  Speaker 8: favorite scene... Oh, my God, there's so many good scenes
• 58:01
  Speaker 8: in the movie. My favorite scene that doesn't involve Val
• 58:03
  Speaker 8: Avery or Tim Carey is the scene where John Cassavetes'
• 58:08
  Speaker 8: wife knows about the affair and has tried to kill
• 58:10
  Speaker 8: herself or tried to make it look like she's tried
• 58:12
  Speaker 8: to kill herself. And she's told him that he has
• 58:14
  Speaker 8: to go and end the affair. And so he decides
• 58:17
  Speaker 8: to bring their oldest son to witness his father be
• 58:20
  Speaker 8: a man. And Minnie, who loves this man very much,
• 58:23
  Speaker 8: despite the fact that he abuses her frequently... sees him
• 58:27
  Speaker 8: coming to the museum gets excited that he's there sees
• 58:29
  Speaker 8: the reason he's there sees that his son is there
• 58:31
  Speaker 8: watching him break up with her and she the best
• 58:34
  Speaker 8: delivery of any line ever she just looks at him
• 58:37
  Speaker 8: and she goes are you kidding me and anytime anything
• 58:41
  Speaker 8: has happened during the trump administration i just hear her
• 58:43
  Speaker 8: delivering the line just that way so yeah domestic villain
• 58:51
  Speaker 8: john cassavetes yeah there.
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: Are many of those in the world cinema or otherwise.
• 58:57
  Speaker 2: Well, it kind of feeds in a little bit. I
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: was going to talk about Rosemary's Baby.
• 59:01
  Speaker 7: Ah.
• 59:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 59:02
  Speaker 3: That's epic.
• 59:02
  Speaker 7: I even thought about his character in Rosemary's Baby, which
• 59:05
  Speaker 7: is pretty reprehensible.
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: Here's a man who's just going to sell his soul
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: for success.
• 59:10
  Speaker 7: Sell out his wife.
• 59:11
  Speaker 2: And that nice couple, the cast of Vets, particularly Ruth Gordon,
• 59:17
  Speaker 2: who's wonderful, his mini. So that ties in pretty well.
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: Just devil movies in general. I was going to lead
• 59:26
  Speaker 2: in with that, saying I just have a whole minor
• 59:28
  Speaker 2: list of people who played the devil that I really like.
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: As we all do, you know.
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: I'm a big fan of Laird Craigor, who turns up
• 59:41
  Speaker 2: on another one of my picks. Hefty, heavy actor from
• 59:46
  Speaker 2: the 40s. who plays the devil wonderfully in the original
• 59:51
  Speaker 2: Heaven Can Wait. It's kind of a minor role, but
• 59:53
  Speaker 2: he's very, very charming and very, very funny. And just
• 59:56
  Speaker 2: sort of laughs a lot at the foibles of everybody else.
• 59:59
  Speaker 2: He was terrific. Walter Houston in The Devil and Daniel Webster,
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 2: who's probably my favorite portrayal of Satan, his old scratch,
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: the rustic.
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 7: And largely because it's Walter Houston.
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's amazing. And Viggo Mortensen. who played Satan in
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: The Prophecy, which I really liked that first film. I
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 2: know they've made like five sequels.
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 7: I didn't realize it was popular enough to have all
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 7: the sequels that it does too, which is.
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: I don't know about the rest of them, but I
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 2: really liked that first film quite a bit. And he
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 2: plays a very interesting Lucifer in that he's just kind
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 2: of a lonely guy who wants things to be like
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: they were and gets drunk on blood in a great scene.
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 2: And so he's terrific. So a pile of a bunch
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: of people in there together.
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: And, of course, George Burns.
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, which I never saw. You know, oh, God, you devil,
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 2: I never saw that. But those guys in particular.
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: He plays it just like the other version. He plays
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: one character, George Burns. But he's lovable all the time.
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: So those are guys that I'm fond of. Any time
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: you've got a, well, you know, Pacino was good, I thought.
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 2: So it's always a ripe roll for those guys. It's okay.
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 2: What can you do with it?
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: For Satan to chew up the scenery.
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 2: It's all right. But I'm really fond of Laird Craig
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: or Satan because he's kind of a good guy in
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 2: a way. He really wants to stick it to the
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 2: people who deserve it, but the rest, he's willing to
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 2: turn his eye. I'll be getting back to him later. Tease.
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 3: Tease.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 4: Oh, yeah. Running with the devil. Running with the devil.
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 4: I found the simple life.
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 2: It's so simple. It's coming. Here it comes. It's intermission time.
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 5: Time to visit our concession stand.
• 1:02:17
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• 1:03:19
  Speaker 9: The Old West, where the women were shy.
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 8: Do you mind taking hold of these, please?
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 9: The Indians were restless. And the villains were the heroes
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 9: of the day. Kirk Douglas, Anne Margaret, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Foster Brooks,
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 9: Mel Tillis, Ruth Buzzy, and Paul Leight in the villain-rated PG.
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 2: One minute till showtime.
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 5: Satisfy yourself with a thirst quenching drink. Your favorite beverage
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 5: awaits you at our refreshment stand.
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Pat Healy and you're listening to Movie Meltdown.
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: again I came up with another uh another recent one
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: and um it's it's one of the more twisted stories
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: I remember hearing period and then once you got into
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: and I had it on my list and then went
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: oh yeah and he's been on the show before like
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: and that wasn't why I picked it I was just
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: like oh yeah I've sat and talked to him um
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: Pat Healy's performance in Compliance. Have any of you seen Compliance?
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 2: Wait.
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: Officer Daniels who calls on the phone to handle this
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: situation in a fast food restaurant.
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: Evil in a weird way that you've never seen before
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 1: and you don't even fully understand.
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 8: That's a good one.
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: Should I even... Because I feel like not enough people
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 1: have seen it. So should I even throw out the premise?
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 8: I don't... I think so.
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like it works better going in blind
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: and you're just like, wait, what is happening?
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 7: You've already got me intrigued, though. Is this something that's
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 7: on Netflix?
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: I haven't checked lately. I own it because I was
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: that thrilled with it. When did it come out? I
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: was just like, 2013.
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: So it's, yeah, it's... I talked to him after I'd
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: seen it that first time and I asked him, I
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: was like, you have gone a couple of different super
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: dark places, but that one in particular... just like, how
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: do you climb back out of that? I mean, that
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: is a pit trying to get into this, the mindset
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 1: of this character. Then I'm like, it's just, and again,
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: I think it's the twistedness of it that like, you
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 1: don't even fully understand what this character is getting out
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: of how evil and horrible his actions are. And that's
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: the part that you're just like, that is the twist
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: that you don't understand is like, why is this person
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: doing this?
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 8: And, Is my memory correct in that it was based
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 8: on a real story?
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: That's the really scary part. I didn't know if I
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 1: needed to throw that out there, too. But as you
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: get into this, watch the movie. I won't even spoil
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 1: the plot. But you're like, midway in, you're going to
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: be like, this is ridiculous. This would never happen. And
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: then keep in mind, this is based on not just
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 1: a true story, multiple versions of this, that this one
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: character out there did to different places, different, again, it
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: was almost always like a restaurant or a small business.
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: And different times he pulled off the same maneuver that
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: he does. And it worked over and over.
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 2: And it's disturbing.
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 1: One of them was not far from us, actually.
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 2: You got me intrigued.
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: As I found out.
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 2: You got me intrigued in that story.
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 2: So I won't ruin it.
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 1: Just go watch Compliance.
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 2: Oh, wait.
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 8: Is this?
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: Pat Healy's a genius.
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 7: Yes, probably.
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 7: I think I know what this is now referring to.
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 7: Because I remember hearing about it when it came out
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 7: and- it was one that I wanted us to get
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 7: it at Baxter, but that was back when we were
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 7: too cool to get independent or small.
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 8: I saw it at the village eight.
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 7: I know, I know what you're talking about now.
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: It's, it's, yeah, it's an amazing story and his performance
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 1: is disturbing.
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 7: Well, um, in the way of both modern and disturbing characters,
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 7: you know, um, A lot of my villains that I've
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 7: sort of mentioned, you know, when they walk on screen,
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 7: you cringe, but you also get some laughs out of them.
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 7: This is one where there is nothing funny about this
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 7: character whatsoever, and it's one of the more reprehensible villains
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 7: I can think of in modern cinema, like in the
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 7: past 10 years, but nobody talks about him, and that
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 7: is Captain Vidal from Pan's Labyrinth. Just because... Here is
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 7: a guy... The moment that you see him, Ophelia, when
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 7: she meets him and her mother introduces, you know, it's like,
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 7: this is going to be your new dad. And she
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 7: reaches out her hand. He's like, you shake with your right,
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 7: not your left. Like she held out the wrong hand.
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 7: And it's just this intimidation. And already you're like, okay,
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 7: this guy's a little unsettling. But that first night that
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 7: they're there, that's when they capture these two men that
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 7: they think are maybe spies for the revolution. And so,
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 7: you know, they're both like, no, no, no, we're not spies.
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 7: My dad is a rabbit hunter. And, you know, he's
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 7: just like, stop talking. And then the guy says something else.
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 7: He just takes the bottle of a wine bottle and
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 7: just bashes the guy's face in with the base of
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 7: this bottle.
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 7: And then just shoots the son.
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 2: And you're just like, Jesus Christ.
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 7: And then afterwards he just digs and he finds rabbits.
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 2: He's like, oh.
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 7: Next time, please search them before you get me out
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 7: of bed. And that introduces that sets the tone for
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 7: him and everything throughout all of that. um you know
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 7: the fact that um his wife ends up dying but
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 7: he doesn't really care because he's like make sure you
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 7: save the son and the reason that the doctor wasn't
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 7: there to begin with is because the doctor was trying
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 7: to help some people with medicine so he just shot
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 7: him in the back you know it's just like it's
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 7: the body count throughout that film is primarily um him
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 7: and of course you know him committing the the final
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 7: sort of heinous act and that is he shoots ophelia
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 7: and that's what ultimately kills her the the main um
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 7: lead as well so i mean he's a character to
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 7: where there's nothing funny about him there's nothing redeeming about
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 7: him he's just terrifying yes you know that the mental
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 7: image to where he's like swigging alcohol and sewing his
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 7: his mouth shut.
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 2: You're It's a movie that I consider to be an
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 2: Il Toro's masterpiece, but I cannot watch it. Having a
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 2: daughter in that particular scene with the bottle, it gets
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 2: to me very deeply. I can recognize its greatness and
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 2: I have it on my shelf, but I do not
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 2: pull it off very often.
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 7: Because he is one where he is just an amazing villain. Genuinely,
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 7: genuinely terrifying.
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 8: So I can segue with another one about parental surrogates,
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 8: and that's the film Sunny Boy. Has anybody, everybody seen
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 8: Sunny Boy?
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 2: No.
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 8: Oh, well, you're in for a treat.
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 7: I also like this, too, because we're getting recommendations for
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 7: each other.
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 8: Sunny Boy, I want to say it's the early 90s,
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 8: but I'm not super sure on the time frame.
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 1: But Paul L.
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 8: Smith plays Slew, and it's about a small-town crime boss.
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 1: You've already hooked me.
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 2: I love Paul L. Smith.
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 8: Well, he's incredible in it. It's about a small-town crime
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 8: boss and his lackeys steal a car for him without
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 8: realizing there's a child in it, a baby, an infant.
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 8: So they bring the baby to the crime boss, and
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 8: he decides to sell it on the black market. But
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 8: his spouse, a transgender David Carradine, yes, decides that no,
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 8: they shouldn't sell the baby. They need to raise the baby.
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 8: So they raise this baby and wind up cutting out
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 8: his tongue and trying to train him to be an assassin.
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 8: Brad Durff, by the way, is one of the lackeys
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 8: who brings in the baby, of course. He'll show up
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 8: later in my list. And it is incredible. It's an
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 8: incredible film because.
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 7: This sounds less like a watch it and more like
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 7: just buy it.
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I did. You're going to need this.
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 8: Because I want to say it finally came out on Blu-ray.
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 8: It just jumped right to Blu-ray and that's when I
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 8: picked it up. If it's not out there anymore, I'll
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 8: be happy to lend it. But it's an incredible film.
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 8: It's basically a Frankenstein story.
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 1: And it.
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 8: His character, the slew character, seems to be pure evil.
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 8: I mean, he's taken this child and cut out his
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 8: tongue and is raising it to be an assassin. He
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 8: tortures him endlessly and to that end. But ultimately, you
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 8: realize that he is... really working by a code which
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 8: i guess a lot of our villains are and that
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 8: he thinks you know his dad brought him up to
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 8: be tough and he has to bring this kid up
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 8: to be tough and ultimately it kind.
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 1: Of weirdly works to the child's.
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 8: Advantage in some way that i won't get into you
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 8: just need to see the movie he named.
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 1: Him sue i think that's how that works.
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 2: I mean i It's taking a really dark turn. Lots
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 2: of maiming.
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 1: Mine's not so dark. Heading back to the light.
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 2: I'm looking for something to lighten the mood. It's hard
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 2: right now. Maybe a little. This movie can be considered
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 2: very black comedy. Griffin Mill in The Player. I don't
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 2: know about that.
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 1: Tim Robbins I was trying to come up with because
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 1: I love the player but I was like well there
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 1: isn't really a villain other than himself like he gets
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 1: himself into every problem that he has.
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 2: And he digs deeper and deeper and you know the
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 2: initial crime it's an accident you know things go too
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 2: far and Vincent D'Onofrio falls in a puddle and drowns
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 2: but it's all the effort to cover it up that
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 2: just spirals and spirals and snowballs and snowballs until you're
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 2: put into the position of hoping once again that Tim
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 2: doesn't get caught mhm But he's guilty. Yeah. But then
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 2: it's like he starts to embrace that dark nature again.
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 2: And by the end, you have that really omen-like situation.
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 2: The baby is coming. You've got the la-la-la on the soundtrack.
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 2: But it's just a great send-up of how people have
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 2: to sell their souls in Hollywood.
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 7: Yeah, that's what I was going to say. His character's unscrupulous,
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 7: but it is that social commentary on just Hollywood in general.
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 2: What does it take to succeed? It takes compromise and
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 2: compromise and compromise. Because you've got that whole side story
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 2: going on with the film that they're going to make.
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 1: With Susan Sarandon.
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 2: The director's fighting so hard to keep it dark and realistic,
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 2: and they keep trying to push Bruce Willis and Julia
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 2: Roberts saw him. There they are. Yeah.
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 1: Did you see the test?
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 2: At the end.
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 1: The test numbers were horrible.
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 2: But I love that movie. And like I said, Griffin
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 2: is ultimately an evil, evil man.
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 7: I'm glad it recently got a restoration.
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I grabbed that as soon as it came out.
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 1: Well, my next one, it's fun for you guys at
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 1: home because you don't see the room we're sitting in
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 1: right now.
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 5: But.
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 1: And I wasn't sure I was even going to get
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 1: to this one before Beau stole it. My next one
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 1: is The Pin and Tug, who are from Brick, which
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 1: if you aren't sitting in this room we are right now,
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 1: there are five different Brick one sheets hanging up right now.
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 1: I didn't know when I walked in that was going
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 1: to be the scenario.
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 7: I just change out the posters periodically. And if anything,
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 7: I'm irritated that I couldn't find. I thought I had
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 7: the sixth one.
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 2: Bastards.
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 7: Someone stole it. For those wondering what they are, there's
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 7: a teaser set of five, one for each of the
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 7: main characters. It's a really cool teaser set.
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 1: It is cool.
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 7: The picture or the image of the individual is torn out,
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 7: and you just got to quote by them. But no,
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 7: Brick's a great sort of modern neo-noir film.
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 1: I liked picking that one because the thing I think
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 1: that is so brilliant about Brick is it's not– large
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 1: stakes at all so all these other you know we've
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 1: got huge villains with giant plans and just evil beyond
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 1: compare but this is such a small story that even
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 1: as like noir stories go it's like sized down just
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 1: to be mostly about the high school like to the
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 1: point of like the high school and kids wandering around
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 1: the outskirts of the high school selling drugs so for
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: the most part like it is so small but I
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 1: was thinking of like a memorable moment Just oddball villains.
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 1: The pen is a weird, weird character to be thrown
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 1: in one of these stories. And he's super memorable. But
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 1: I was like, again, by himself, is he a great villain?
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 5: No.
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 1: He's an interesting character.
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 7: He lives with his mom.
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 1: But he's dealing this massive empire in his mind out
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 1: of his basement with super low ceilings, by the way.
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 1: especially for as tall as Lucas Haas is. But it's
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 1: weird because without Tug, he is not a force to
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 1: be reckoned with at all. He is the dorkiest dork ever,
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 1: but Tug is just a loose cannon. Tug goes through
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 1: these scenes where he will punch you without even seeing
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 1: him come. There's the one specific one where he's just,
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 1: he moves and the main character is punched and he's
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 1: back sitting down before he even comes to as to
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 1: what just happened. because he is just constantly on edge.
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 7: And it's why he's smoking a joint, too.
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 7: Tug is that angry.
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 1: When he's high. Yeah, that's his laid back version of it.
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 1: So it's like, yeah, watching him just the first time,
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 1: and again, this is sort of the breakthrough role for
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 1: Joseph Gordon-Levitt, that I'm not a dorky TV kid anymore.
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 1: This is the first real lead that I'm like, oh no,
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 1: this guy's got potential. He can carry this movie with
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: all of its weird dialogue and all these crazy scenarios,
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 1: you know, he's, he's definitely got a future and obviously
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 1: he does, but watching that first interaction where he's just like,
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 1: I want to meet the pin. I need to talk
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 1: to the pit. And like, he just, just beats the
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 1: hell out of him. So, I mean, tug is the,
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 1: the muscle tug is the only way that this villain
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 1: scenario works. And I think the most interesting thing watching
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 1: it again recently was just like, you also assume that
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 1: he's just going to be like, like, a mongoloid. He's
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 1: just nothing. And then later he's suddenly having a very
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 1: civil conversation. Now we're at my parents' house. He has
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 1: a life. He's such a weird force that I didn't
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 1: assume he had any humanity to him.
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 2: But he does.
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 7: And actually what's neat about Tug is when you first
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 7: meet the pin and Tug, you figure, okay, Tug is
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 7: just the brainless muscle.
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 7: And then the pin is like the clever personal orchestrator
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 7: and all this, which he is, but You realize that
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 7: basically Tug has a story arc. The pen doesn't.
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 7: The pen is.
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 1: He's just there to be a gimmick almost.
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 7: Whereas Tug actually has like some redemption and he's trying
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 7: to make relations. Like he's trying to get out from...
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 7: this position that he's in underneath the pin, whereas the
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 7: pin just doesn't change.
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 2: He stays as is.
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 1: And Tug is the one that has, by the end,
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 1: there is like a weird power play. And between the two,
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 1: Tug is definitely the villain of the bunch, even though
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 1: the one that looks like you're like, if you're going
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 1: with a very silly old school Hollywood, like him with
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 1: the cape and the cane. And like, it's just such
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 1: a fun scenario that they go to all these, theatrics
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 1: that the pin puts on. But between the two, Tug
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 1: is the villain.
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 7: And Tug's the only one that's actually like, you see
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 7: him shooting people. you know, it's just, he's very terrifying
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 7: for just basically a teenager.
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 1: The pin just eats a cookie.
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 7: Yeah. For me, you know, I don't want to, like,
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 7: go on the theme of just child cruelty. As fun
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 7: as that is. But that does factor into this character,
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 7: because this character I always kind of considered a classic character. villain,
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 7: even though you don't see him turning up on lists
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 7: and really not getting talked about as much as he should,
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 7: given that I will contend he has the best entrance
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 7: of any villain in any movie, and that is Frank,
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 7: Henry Fonda's character from Once Upon a Time in the West.
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 7: Just because it is.
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 2: Such.
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 7: It still gives me chills to see the entire scene
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 7: to where you have this family getting ready for you know,
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 7: a picnic out behind their house, just getting ready for dinner.
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 7: And just out of nowhere, all of them get gunned down,
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 7: except for then suddenly this kid had gone back in.
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 7: I can't remember what he went back in for, but
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 7: some sort of food or something. He comes running back
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 7: out like it's a little 10 year old kid. And
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 7: here comes, you know, Henry Fonda and all these men
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 7: flanked by him. And it's such a powerful shot within that,
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 7: you know, that Leone did. I mean, Tarantino recreated it
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 7: for Kill Bill Volume 2. The whole scene where Bill
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 7: and his men go into the, or his women go
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 7: into the chapel. And so there's just that moment where
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 7: he's staring down the kid and they're just like, well,
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 7: what should we do? And I can't remember the exact exchange,
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 7: but basically Vonda just stares at the kid and just
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 7: shoots him in the face. Because he realizes this kid
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 7: can't survive because he'll talk. And, you know, he has
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 7: like a little bit... It's like he just stares him
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 7: down and there's like this little bit of a grin
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 7: the moment before he does it. And it's also got
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 7: one of my favorite villainous lines, too, to where when
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 7: his boss fusses at him for killing the family, he's like,
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 7: I told you just to scare them, not to kill them.
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 7: He's like, people scare better when they're done. It's just like.
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 1: And that's really... just interesting casting, bringing Fonda into it.
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 1: Like that's so.
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 2: The shock was Fonda playing that kind of character.
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 7: But, but he also goes from just being a hired
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 7: gun to, you know, he, he's actually wanting to sort
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 7: of take over this business from, I can't remember what the,
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 7: the real character's name is, but they just refer to
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 7: him as Mr. Choo Choo, you know, the rail Baron, um,
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 7: whom he ends up betraying. So, I mean, he's, He's
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 7: got a larger story arc that just goes throughout all this,
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 7: whereas the villain he works for, it's kind of like
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 7: the same with Tug and the pen, to where at
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 7: first he's just hired muscle, but then you realize, no,
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 7: this guy kind of actually rises above who he's working for.
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 1: Working his own game, yeah.
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 8: Yeah, I have one that's not a Hollywood classic whatsoever.
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 8: This movie is a completely throwaway film from 1998. I
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 8: saw it in the theater for reasons I don't fully understand.
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 1: Because you see a lot of things in the theater.
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 1: Because I see everything that comes out of the theater.
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 1: That's fair. That's fair.
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 8: I saw it in the theater and it should have
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 8: just been a popcorn movie. Well, it was just a
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 8: popcorn movie that came and went. But for whatever reason,
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 8: this actor's performance has stuck with me and I think
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 8: about it.
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 2: All the time.
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 8: Which is Fallen with Denzel Washington and Elias Koteas. And
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 8: Elias Koteas' performance as Edgar Reese, and specifically any time
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 8: he sings that Rolling Stones song. but especially when he
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 8: sings it in the gas chamber. Incredible, incredible.
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 1: He's one of those that's kind of underrated in general.
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 2: I can show you.
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 1: He's, again, to beat Casey Jones, which is still the
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 1: way I think of him most of the time, but
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 1: he's turned up in so many Amangoya movies and all
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 1: this really impressive stuff and done some great performances. And yet, really,
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 1: most people don't know anything about him.
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 2: He was in that first Prophecy film. He was in Crash,
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 2: which I considered talking about him in Crash because he's
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 2: an interesting man. My favorite part.
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 7: I even was re-watching Zodiac the other day, and I'd
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 7: forgotten how large of a role he has in that.
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 2: He's a great actor.
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 1: He is a great actor.
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 2: The presence, yeah, is always terrific.
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 8: I always conflate him with Christopher Maloney, though. I have
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 8: a really hard time telling those two people apart. So
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 8: there may be Christopher Maloney performances that I've attributed to
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 8: Elias Cateas, but either way, together, their body of work
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 8: is tremendous.
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 2: I'm almost sure this is on Bo's list. I can't
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 2: see how it isn't on Bo's list, but I'll go
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 2: ahead and throw the title out. Felicia's Journey. Joseph Hilditch. Yeah.
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 2: Bob Hoskins.
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 7: Definitely, that is by far my favorite Bob Hoskins role.
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 7: I mean, just because he is genuinely terrifying in that.
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 2: He seems so benign at first.
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 7: He's another one, like I mentioned with Mademoiselle earlier, when
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 7: you see him early on, like within the first little
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 7: bit of the movie, there's that scene to where the
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 7: food vendor is He's like, oh, we've got these machines
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 7: where people just put in money and it brings up
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 7: their dishes however they want it. He's just like, well,
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 7: then I would lose my staff. He's like, people need
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 7: to be fed by human hands. It's what makes us
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 7: feel loved. And you see him delivering food to people
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 7: in the factory that can't get away from their job
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 7: long enough. He makes special meals for everybody.
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 2: What a nice guy.
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 7: And then it's just, as the layers start peeling back,
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 7: you start realizing, oh, there's some deep disturbed elements to
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 7: this character.
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we've got to see it. It's a film that
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 2: bypassed a lot of people by virtue of how it
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 2: was advertised.
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 7: And you mentioned Adam McGoyan, too.
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that was one of the.
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 2: You remember the ads? We were running the trailers at Baxter,
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 2: and it looks like kind of a difficult romance. Yeah.
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 2: You've got a pregnant girl looking for the soldier that's
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 2: her boyfriend, and It seems that Hoskins is trying to
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 2: bring them together, and they never tip the hat at all. No,
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 2: not in the trailers. You don't know, watching the trailer,
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 2: what this movie's going to be about.
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 7: And I still think that probably, like, if you were
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 7: to rank the top ten movies that people walked out
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 7: of at Baxter, that's definitely one of them.
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they were not expecting that.
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 7: Because, I mean, you don't start seeing dark aspects of
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 7: Hoskins' character until about 45 minutes in. And then from there,
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 7: it's just like this weird... rollercoaster ride to where basically
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 7: you realize, oh, he just is helping her so he
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 7: can get close to her so that way he can
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 7: kill her, you know, because he starts having all these.
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 7: You see him go home and I think it's after
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 7: one of the very first talks with her. He's like, oh, yeah,
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 7: I'll give you a ride, you know, to help you out.
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 7: And he's helping her try to find her boyfriend. And
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 7: then when he gets home, you hear like the conversation
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 7: they had earlier and you're like, okay, is he thinking
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 7: it back over in his head? And you realize... No,
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 7: he taped the conversation, and then he just puts a
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 7: little label on it, and then he puts it in
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 7: a stack with dozens of other tapes.
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 2: And there's others, yeah.
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 7: And you're like, oh, that's where this is going.
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 2: It's a scary movie. I'm really a big fan of
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 2: that film. Yeah.
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 7: Bob Hoskins, yeah, genuinely terrifying in that. I think it
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 7: only— I think the only other movie that I think
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 7: I was that scared of Bob Hoskins would be The
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 7: Long Beach Friday.
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 2: That's it. That's the first time I ever saw him.
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 2: And I was like, well, he kind of cycled back
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 2: to being that kind of a character, but in a
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 2: much quieter way. But I look at him in Roger
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 2: Rabbit and I just kind of cry. He's been so
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 2: wasted in this film. He's so good at being bad.
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 2: Eddie's got a dark past, man. Come on.
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 1: Lost his brother.
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 8: Well.
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 2: my next one.
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 1: And this came about cause I've recently rewatched this film,
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 1: but I, it's also interesting because he's so normal and
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 1: you kind of, you kind of don't see it coming,
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 1: but again, it's like, I think it's a little, that
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 1: creative casting too. This is a captain Dudley Smith from
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 1: LA confidential.
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah. Oh yeah.
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 1: James Cromwell is like weird casting because you go in
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 1: and you're just so like, Oh yeah, he's the captain.
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 1: He used to, you know, he's worked with all these
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 1: guys for years and then like it, It just, the
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 1: onion continues to unpeel. And you're like, oh, well, he's
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 1: kind of a dirty cop. But then, you know, okay,
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 1: he's still like, no, no, he's involved in that too.
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 2: Huh.
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 1: Okay, well, no, he's just a horrible, horrible human being
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 1: who's gone out of his way to screw over everyone
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 1: he knows. Kill many of them right in front of us. Like,
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 1: it just continues to get worse. And you're like, well,
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 1: he's not really the... No, he's just the.
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 2: He's the black heart of the movie.
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he's the Svengali of all this nonsense we've been
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 1: watching going on. And it's such a good movie anyway,
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 1: just revisiting it. I forgot just how solid most of
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 1: that stuff is. But to put him, that just seemed
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 1: like such an unlikely move to be like, huh, okay.
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 1: And again, maybe that's just... casting versus dealing from what
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 1: they were in the book.
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 7: It's that great jump reveal, too, to where Spacey's character
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 7: is almost getting redeemed. Instead of just being this showcase cop,
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 7: he's actually investigating something real.
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 1: I want to be a real cop again.
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 7: And he's just sitting down and talking with him, and
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 7: he's just like, man, I think this is actually something.
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 7: That whole conversation they have in the kitchen, and Cromwell
• 1:28:32
  Speaker 7: just turns around and shoots him. You're like, Jesus!
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 1: That just heartlessly reaches in, pulls the gun out.
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 7: There's no way you can just, the first time you're
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 7: watching that, you see that conversation.
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 1: You just don't.
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 2: I remember we screened that. I think we had a
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 2: late night show at Baxter. And that's one of the
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 2: only movies I emerged from just kind of shaking. Yeah.
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 2: From so much power in that. And I'll watch other scenes. Yeah.
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 2: And it's also one of the weirdest adaptations ever. of
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 2: a novel ever done because the book, L.A. Confidential, cannot
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 2: be filmed. It is this phantasmagoria where everyone is evil,
• 1:29:08
  Speaker 2: including Walt Disney, whose son is a serial killer. There's
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 2: so much going on in that book that no one
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 2: thought it could ever be made. They just pull some
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 2: threads out of it.
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 1: See, that's impressive.
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 6: And what would have been.
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 2: This amazing movie?
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 1: Because it's so solid.
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 2: And the author was like, you did a great job.
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 2: But one of the biggest key elements, the whole Rolo
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 2: Tomasi thing, it's not even in the book. Yeah. It's
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 2: not even there. That is.
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's the most impressive part of it is
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 1: you get into that story and that little key thing
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 1: that goes on.
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 2: Because there are no redeeming people in the book, really.
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 2: Not even the ones that are, not even Bud, you know.
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 2: They're just... Awful.
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 1: Well, and that is fun, too, because we do watch
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 1: all these people sort of changing their ways. You see, like,
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 1: what the hell's the other dude's name?
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 2: Guy Pearce.
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 7: Yeah, Guy Pearce.
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 2: I can't remember his name.
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 1: But yeah. He totally goes in with this squeaky clean.
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 1: It's all cut and dry. There are no gray areas.
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 1: And he realizes you kind of have to get your
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 1: hands dirty, especially in this world, to be able to
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 1: do any good. And then Bud is the other way.
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 1: Bud is just... does not care who the hell he
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 1: has to beat to get his way. And then by
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 1: the end, he's like, well, no, because I really do
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 1: kind of want to do good in the world.
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 2: They kind of switch roles, yeah.
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, they meet in the middle somewhere, and then
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 1: you see, like, well, as gray an area as this
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 1: has become and how evil some of the actions they've
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 1: participated in are, James Cromwell, like, trumps everyone in this.
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 1: So it was just, yeah, you so much don't see
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 1: him coming as the mastermind of all that stuff.
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 7: And betrays everyone along the way. Well, I'm going to
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 7: go with a shock betrayal character as well, sort of
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 7: going off that, as well as sort of a film
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 7: noir in a modern era, and that is Lauren Visser,
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 7: which is Emmett Walsh's character in Blood Symbol, the Coen
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 7: Brothers film. Just because the Coen Brothers are another duo
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 7: that are really, kind of like I mentioned earlier with Lynch,
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 7: and even we kind of talked about with Cronenberg too,
• 1:31:10
  Speaker 7: to where they're good at making villains that kind of
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 7: make you laugh, but they're also very reprehensible too, at
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 7: least when they're doing serious. I mean, I know people
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 7: love Brother Where Art Thou, and I enjoy it too,
• 1:31:24
  Speaker 7: and Big Lebowski, but I tend to like the Coen
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 7: brothers a little bit better when they're being serious. And,
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 7: you know, typically Anton Sugar, we mentioned him earlier from
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 7: No Country for Old Men, he shows up on a
• 1:31:36
  Speaker 7: lot of these lists. I'm like, man, Lauren Visser is
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 7: just like sweaty and nasty. It was utterly disgusting. And
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 7: I even like, I can't remember Dan Hedaya's character in that,
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 7: but the two of them together, just very frightening. But
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 7: Visser becomes essentially by the end of the movie, like
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 7: a boogeyman for, for this couple, because no matter where
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 7: they go, he's constantly following them, can find them the
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 7: entire scene at the end. Has everyone seen it? Yes,
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 7: so like the entire scene at the end of the
• 1:32:10
  Speaker 7: film to where.
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 8: Maybe not at home.
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 8: There's so many spoilers in this episode.
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah. It's like he can't be killed at the end.
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 7: He is like Michael Myers at the end of Halloween. Like,
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 7: she stabs his hand, and he takes a bullet and
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 7: all this sort of stuff, and he just is still going,
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 7: and I just love at the end where she still
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 7: thought that it was her husband, and he's just laughing.
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 2: He's just like, no, no, no. It's just.
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 7: And all he cared about was, I don't even think
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 7: it was like a lot of money either that he got.
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 7: It was like, what, $ 10, 000? It was like some very
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 7: small sort of pilling amount of money, and he's just
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 7: killing off these people based on, well, he thinks that
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 7: they know that he killed Hadeus, but he didn't. So
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 7: it's just, I don't know. Out of all the characters
• 1:32:59
  Speaker 7: that Coen Brothers have worked into their films, and in
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 7: a movie to where basically you've got four characters, and
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 7: no one in that movie really has a tremendous amount
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 7: of redeeming qualities, he is the one that is just,
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 7: like I said earlier, just the most reprehensible. Just utterly unlikable,
• 1:33:16
  Speaker 7: and just all of his gross wheezing jokes that he's
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 7: telling and all this sort of stuff. I just like
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 7: that character a lot, and just to think this guy
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 7: has made a living being the way he is.
• 1:33:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, pretty much.
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 1: That's his thing too.
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 2: It's his whole life.
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 8: I'm not sure that this entry, I really messed up
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 8: my whole order of things because this shouldn't be number three.
• 1:33:40
  Speaker 8: This doesn't make any sense as number three. And also
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 8: I wanted to have more women represented in my list
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 8: and I needed a camp entry. And also I want
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 8: to somehow bring this movie into every discussion we have
• 1:33:51
  Speaker 8: from now on. And that is the movie of the week,
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 8: The Devil's Daughter and Shelley Winters.
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 1: This does seem to pop up with you. I think
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 1: it's deep rooted in your brain. It really is.
• 1:34:01
  Speaker 8: It was an important part of my childhood. Anyway, she
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 8: plays a woman who takes a young girl under her
• 1:34:09
  Speaker 8: arm out of the kindness of her heart, but not
• 1:34:12
  Speaker 8: really because she's helping Satan.
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 1: That's all. Speaking of Satan.
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 8: So it's great because she's very sweet when she's very
• 1:34:21
  Speaker 8: sweet and she's very evil when she's very evil.
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 2: When was that on? I'm trying to remember. What?
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 1: What?
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 2: When was that actually broadcast?
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 8: I want to say 73.
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 2: It was mid to early 70s.
• 1:34:31
  Speaker 8: Yeah, I'm not sure.
• 1:34:31
  Speaker 2: Kind of a golden era of the.
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 7: Made-for-TV movies.
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 2: Made-for-TV movies, yeah.
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 1: That were easily as disturbing as anything in the theater.
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 7: Gargoyles and the Night of the Scarecrow.
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 2: And an enormous number of those. Well, I'm glad you
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 2: brought up TV because I was going to... We were
• 1:34:46
  Speaker 2: going to restrict ourselves to film, but television now, of course.
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 1: It's a weird, continually graying area now.
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 2: The television series Fargo. Yeah. It ties into Coen's first season.
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 2: You've got a couple of amazing villains going on. You've
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 2: got Billy Bob just being as black as can be,
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 2: yet funny. Being Billy Bob. But then you've got this
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 2: whole trajectory of Martin Freeman's character, who goes from being
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 2: just a little wimpy, bullied character to being a monster.
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 2: A complete monster. And you're just like, you don't know
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 2: how to feel about it. He kills two of his wives.
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 2: he just he's so empowered by all of this it's
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 2: just this osmosis thing with Billy Bob it's amazing to
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 2: watch yeah and just it's a terrific series that I
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 2: haven't seen the second season but that one in particular just.
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 7: Wow yeah I'd even debate it on TV myself because
• 1:35:45
  Speaker 7: I'm like well you've got Mr. Palmer from Twin Peaks
• 1:35:49
  Speaker 7: Ray Wise's character which I just I love you know
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 7: and again that's another one to where.
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 1: It's like it's just he's batshit crazy see I almost
• 1:35:57
  Speaker 1: went with Bob Because he is the embodiment of evil.
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 2: He's evil.
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 1: He's pure evil.
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 7: But I feel like Mr. Palmer, he gives you, there's
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 7: a lot more, as we were going back to the pathos,
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 7: there's a lot more to his character. Bob's just evil.
• 1:36:13
  Speaker 1: Well, that's the thing. I still don't really think of
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 1: Leland as a villain, really. He's just someone being used. Yeah,
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 1: he's just a normal dad for half the run, and
• 1:36:23
  Speaker 1: then he's just this vessel the other half that's just
• 1:36:26
  Speaker 1: evil because he happened to be there. Yeah, I don't
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 1: ever really think of Leland as that. Again, that performance
• 1:36:33
  Speaker 1: is just so amazing.
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 7: Just him crying and dancing with his daughter's framed picture alone.
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 2: He's phenomenal.
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 1: Well, mine, I was just going to throw in, and again,
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 1: this was just sort of going with my, some of
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 1: my more gut reactions. And I was trying to come
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 1: up with a just standard horror classic kind of a villain.
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 1: And for me, classics go all the way back to
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 1: the 80s. Jerry Dandridge from the original Fright Night.
• 1:36:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, that.
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 1: Portrayal by chris sarandon is so perfect for that type
• 1:37:07
  Speaker 1: of movie and he plays again it is almost a
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 1: throwback to the old movies that they're showing on the
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 1: tv show or whatever so he he also kind of
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 1: fits an old school horror villain but it's you know
• 1:37:20
  Speaker 1: infused with weird modern and by modern i mean 1986
• 1:37:23
  Speaker 1: versions of you know like the the updated version of
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 1: that and and his like cool persona that he brings
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 1: with it. So it's, it is interesting that like, he
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 1: kind of works on both levels. Like he is the
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 1: ultimate old school vampire kind of a villain, but at
• 1:37:40
  Speaker 1: the same time, I totally buy him as an eighties
• 1:37:44
  Speaker 1: modernized kind of a guy. And he's got his like
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 1: cool look and he's the cool neighbor that moves in.
• 1:37:49
  Speaker 1: And like, I don't know that everybody, even, even trying
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 1: to remake it. Like, I don't think they pinpointed that, but,
• 1:37:55
  Speaker 1: quite as well as, as what Sarandon does. Like he's just,
• 1:37:59
  Speaker 1: he works on both levels as being a suave motherfucker.
• 1:38:02
  Speaker 1: But then when it comes time to be evil, like
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 1: he turns that, he turns that corner and it's just like, he's,
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 1: he's old school classic horror villain. So I, I, yeah,
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 1: the Jerry Dandridge, I always loved that before.
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 2: No, he's, he's very good at that kind of thing.
• 1:38:17
  Speaker 2: He's always been very good vocally with that kind of
• 1:38:19
  Speaker 2: a thing. He'll change how he pronounces words. Yeah.
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 1: Now, Well, even my honorable mention was Princess Bride.
• 1:38:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:38:27
  Speaker 1: To be a villain and yet the most weaselly. non-threatening
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 1: character in the world, but to still be evil through
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 1: and through. Like, he's been able to do that over
• 1:38:36
  Speaker 1: the years.
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 7: I don't know if in Princess Bride you'd count him
• 1:38:39
  Speaker 7: or count Ruger more as the villain.
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 2: He's good, too. They're both, yeah.
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 1: But I feel like he's almost just there to balance
• 1:38:45
  Speaker 1: out the other half of that side story. But, like, yeah.
• 1:38:48
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 1: He's... he's there to kind of push the whole plot
• 1:38:52
  Speaker 1: and to mess up everything with the wedding. And so
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 1: I still kind of think of him as the villain,
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 1: but again, not a classic movie villain in any way.
• 1:39:02
  Speaker 7: And, and I guess to kind of branch off of
• 1:39:05
  Speaker 7: that with, um, classic, um, horror villains and also going
• 1:39:10
  Speaker 7: in the way to what you mentioned on your last one,
• 1:39:13
  Speaker 7: in the way of, um, just females that are incredibly
• 1:39:16
  Speaker 7: manipulative I'd have to go with Cleopatra from Todd Browning's
• 1:39:20
  Speaker 7: Freaks oh yeah oh great one just cause um I
• 1:39:26
  Speaker 7: mean early on you know that this love is a
• 1:39:31
  Speaker 7: sham this whole marriage that they're gonna have is a
• 1:39:33
  Speaker 7: sham that she just wants his money and all that
• 1:39:35
  Speaker 7: and just the very fact though I think that what
• 1:39:39
  Speaker 7: makes it so sad and so tragic is that Hans
• 1:39:42
  Speaker 7: is the only one that can't see it like at
• 1:39:43
  Speaker 7: the wedding when she's basically berating her husband and just
• 1:39:47
  Speaker 7: making fun of him and, like, she's drunk and Hercules
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 7: is drunk. You can almost kind of consider Hercules as
• 1:39:52
  Speaker 7: the other part of that pair. And just that she's
• 1:39:57
  Speaker 7: going to, you know, poison and kill this incredibly innocent
• 1:40:01
  Speaker 7: human being. You know, all these, you know, sad little
• 1:40:05
  Speaker 7: innocents that, you know, it's like instead of everybody at
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 7: the circus sticking together, instead it's like there's even this
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 7: pecking order within it. And, I don't know, it's just
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 7: every single time I see her interacting with him when
• 1:40:18
  Speaker 7: I watch that movie, it just, it kills my heart.
• 1:40:20
  Speaker 7: It's just like, oh, this is just beyond low for
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 7: any character to try and pull. Because there's plenty of
• 1:40:28
  Speaker 7: movies to where we could pull out, it's like, okay,
• 1:40:31
  Speaker 7: this is a story to where you have a villainess
• 1:40:34
  Speaker 7: that is marrying a man just for the money and
• 1:40:36
  Speaker 7: they plan to kill him. Like, that's a classic movie trope.
• 1:40:39
  Speaker 7: But it's like, I don't think there are any that really...
• 1:40:43
  Speaker 7: crush my soul more than just seeing that relationship between
• 1:40:48
  Speaker 7: the two.
• 1:40:48
  Speaker 2: Of them in that film she does get a good
• 1:40:50
  Speaker 2: comeuppance oh yeah very much so yeah.
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 8: Well, I promised some Brad Dourif, and here it is.
• 1:40:58
  Speaker 8: There are so many performances from which to choose with
• 1:41:01
  Speaker 8: Brad Dourif, so many so that actually when he was
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 8: at Harry Dean Stanton Fest last year, that was my plug,
• 1:41:06
  Speaker 8: when he was at Harry Dean Stanton Fest last year,
• 1:41:09
  Speaker 8: he said that he wasn't going to play any more villains.
• 1:41:10
  Speaker 8: He said he's put his kids through college and he
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 8: doesn't have to, and he's simply not going there anymore
• 1:41:15
  Speaker 8: because he just felt like a hired assassin and he
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 8: didn't like where his brain was. But my favorite ever
• 1:41:21
  Speaker 8: was a movie that I saw at Turfland Mall when
• 1:41:23
  Speaker 8: I was 14 years old, On a date with my
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 8: first boyfriend and it terrified me so much so that
• 1:41:28
  Speaker 8: I refused to watch this movie again until two years
• 1:41:31
  Speaker 8: ago when it held up as terrifying. And that is
• 1:41:34
  Speaker 8: The Exorcist 3 where he plays the Gemini killer and
• 1:41:37
  Speaker 8: it is brilliant. I don't know how much you need
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 8: to go into it, but yeah.
• 1:41:43
  Speaker 1: An underrated movie in general because everybody sort of wrote
• 1:41:46
  Speaker 1: it off.
• 1:41:47
  Speaker 7: After Exorcist 2.
• 1:41:48
  Speaker 8: Which I honestly think is underrated as well. I kind
• 1:41:51
  Speaker 8: of loved Exorcist 2.
• 1:41:52
  Speaker 1: Again, it was a sequel.
• 1:41:54
  Speaker 2: That far in. Exorcist 3 is the legitimate sequel to
• 1:41:57
  Speaker 2: The Exorcist. And William Peter Blatty directing it. I haven't
• 1:42:02
  Speaker 2: sat down and watched the director's cut that just came out.
• 1:42:06
  Speaker 8: I didn't even know that was a thing.
• 1:42:08
  Speaker 2: It just came out back in the fall. Things have
• 1:42:12
  Speaker 2: been turned around. But there's a lot of varying quality
• 1:42:15
  Speaker 2: in the video, but still, you've got to see it.
• 1:42:17
  Speaker 2: But yeah, Dourif was terrific because just even the filmmaking
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 2: that they used to switch those characters around within a
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 2: scene was terrific. And he's wonderful in that. But yeah,
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 2: check out the new one. What are we down to?
• 1:42:35
  Speaker 8: I think this is our two, right?
• 1:42:36
  Speaker 1: Are we down to two?
• 1:42:37
  Speaker 2: And I don't know.
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 7: I haven't been counting them in any order. I'm just
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 7: picking what connects to what we just talked about.
• 1:42:42
  Speaker 1: I think mine is the next round of finales. I've
• 1:42:45
  Speaker 1: got one more, basically.
• 1:42:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I've got to get my guys in. I think
• 1:42:50
  Speaker 2: I've got three, so I'll have to do a double feature.
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 1: I still have one of those.
• 1:42:56
  Speaker 2: The one I brought as a guest, there's a signed
• 1:42:58
  Speaker 2: picture over there of Conrad Veidt, one of my favorite actors.
• 1:43:03
  Speaker 2: And one of my favorite films is The Thief of Baghdad, 1940,
• 1:43:06
  Speaker 2: where he plays Jafar. And he's brilliant in it, and
• 1:43:11
  Speaker 2: it's a gorgeous, you know, technicolor production.
• 1:43:14
  Speaker 7: And really... Pushing the boundary visuals and special.
• 1:43:18
  Speaker 2: Effects for the era, too. Yeah, just a dazzling, dazzling picture.
• 1:43:21
  Speaker 2: Very inspirational to Ray Harryhausen. I was lucky enough to
• 1:43:24
  Speaker 2: be there for the Criterion interview with Ray. We were
• 1:43:27
  Speaker 2: all hanging out at his agent's house that day. Ray
• 1:43:30
  Speaker 2: got to talk about the influences of Thief of Baghdad,
• 1:43:33
  Speaker 2: which you can see in a lot of his films.
• 1:43:34
  Speaker 2: But that performance is amazing because he is Jafar, and
• 1:43:39
  Speaker 2: he is this utterly... black and dangerous magician, but he
• 1:43:43
  Speaker 2: is full of pathos because he's in love with the
• 1:43:46
  Speaker 2: same princess as the thief. And he's torn by this.
• 1:43:50
  Speaker 2: You can see it in every scene he's with her.
• 1:43:53
  Speaker 2: And he will do whatever she bids him to do,
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 2: even though it goes against his orders. So it's a
• 1:43:58
  Speaker 2: very interesting villain. And I look at that, it was
• 1:44:02
  Speaker 2: made during the war in Europe, so it was very
• 1:44:04
  Speaker 2: difficult to get finished. I look at Conrad Veidt's life
• 1:44:09
  Speaker 2: at that period. It was very difficult. because, of course,
• 1:44:11
  Speaker 2: he came up as a great silent actor, all the
• 1:44:14
  Speaker 2: way back to Cabinet of Dr. Caligari. He played Cesar,
• 1:44:18
  Speaker 2: the somnambulist, the man who laughs, because he got out
• 1:44:21
  Speaker 2: of Germany, got to America, got into these universal pictures,
• 1:44:25
  Speaker 2: but his English wasn't so good, so he found himself
• 1:44:28
  Speaker 2: going back to Germany all during the 30s. And then
• 1:44:32
  Speaker 2: Hitler's rise, and he was a truly heroic actor in
• 1:44:36
  Speaker 2: that he helped fund a lot of resistance, a lot
• 1:44:38
  Speaker 2: of his money went to England to help fund resistance
• 1:44:41
  Speaker 2: and he got out of Germany I believe in 41
• 1:44:47
  Speaker 2: and only lived a couple more years and in the
• 1:44:50
  Speaker 2: time that he was back in Hollywood of course he
• 1:44:54
  Speaker 2: was forced to play Nazis so this could not have
• 1:44:57
  Speaker 2: been much fun so I think he channeled some of
• 1:44:59
  Speaker 2: that into those roles Of course, he's most well-known as
• 1:45:02
  Speaker 2: Major Strasser from Casablanca. He played Nazis, Nazi spies, all
• 1:45:07
  Speaker 2: these various characters. And he's an amazing, just great villainous actor,
• 1:45:10
  Speaker 2: but apparently just a brilliant, beautiful man. But I find
• 1:45:14
  Speaker 2: that role in particular to be one of the most appealing.
• 1:45:17
  Speaker 2: I'm a real big fan of that film and that role.
• 1:45:20
  Speaker 2: He's amazing. Check it out. Check out The Criterion.
• 1:45:24
  Speaker 7: Yeah, I've got it, but I don't have it on Criterion.
• 1:45:27
  Speaker 7: I've just got the I guess it was MGM release.
• 1:45:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. It was an MGM release. All right.
• 1:45:34
  Speaker 1: So to start the final round here, um, this is one, again, I,
• 1:45:39
  Speaker 1: I had watched years ago and, and was totally suckered
• 1:45:42
  Speaker 1: in as, you know, the kid trying to find some
• 1:45:47
  Speaker 1: cool classic movies that I wanted to watch. And I
• 1:45:49
  Speaker 1: watched it years and years ago and haven't revisited it
• 1:45:51
  Speaker 1: until recently. And then watching it, I was like, kind
• 1:45:55
  Speaker 1: of blown away again. This is, um, Perry and Dick
• 1:45:59
  Speaker 1: from In Cold Blood.
• 1:46:00
  Speaker 2: Ah.
• 1:46:02
  Speaker 1: Played by Robert Blake. And, again, I already had it
• 1:46:07
  Speaker 1: on the list and went, oh, yeah, I've talked to
• 1:46:08
  Speaker 1: Scott Wilson on the show.
• 1:46:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:46:10
  Speaker 1: Recently renewed popular character actor Scott.
• 1:46:14
  Speaker 2: Wilson, who... Also in Exorcist 3.
• 1:46:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And the 9th Configured. Part 2 and 3 of
• 1:46:21
  Speaker 1: the Bloody Trilogy there. But, yeah, he's... And that is
• 1:46:26
  Speaker 1: the takeaway. It's like, I think I remember at the time,
• 1:46:29
  Speaker 1: you know, everybody kind of made a bigger deal about
• 1:46:31
  Speaker 1: Robert Blake because he has sort of the more dramatic performance.
• 1:46:35
  Speaker 8: Also real life killer.
• 1:46:37
  Speaker 1: Not at the time. Like the first time I saw it,
• 1:46:39
  Speaker 1: I still remember being sort of taken in by that,
• 1:46:42
  Speaker 1: the big finale scene there when he's waiting to go
• 1:46:45
  Speaker 1: to the gallows, basically. So it's like, he's still, I
• 1:46:49
  Speaker 1: have a follow up on that, by the way. So,
• 1:46:52
  Speaker 1: but yeah, I feel like he got a little more
• 1:46:54
  Speaker 1: of the attention in the classic cinema part of it.
• 1:46:58
  Speaker 1: And then going back and watching it now, it's like
• 1:47:00
  Speaker 1: Scott Wilson's character is heartless. Like as far as like
• 1:47:06
  Speaker 1: just being so casual about everything they do. They're both
• 1:47:10
  Speaker 1: kind of a little too relaxed about it, especially after
• 1:47:13
  Speaker 1: the fact, because it's told in the weird scattered flashback
• 1:47:17
  Speaker 1: kind of a way. So it's like, as we're going through,
• 1:47:20
  Speaker 1: It's like the murder's already taken place. We haven't seen
• 1:47:23
  Speaker 1: any of that yet. We're just seeing them driving around afterwards.
• 1:47:26
  Speaker 1: And they're both kind of very casual about it to
• 1:47:30
  Speaker 1: the point that like Robert Blake at one point goes,
• 1:47:32
  Speaker 1: we gotta be pretty messed up to do what we did.
• 1:47:35
  Speaker 1: But still relatively casual as he says that. But he's
• 1:47:38
  Speaker 1: at least self-aware. So by the end of it, you
• 1:47:41
  Speaker 1: really start to kind of feel sympathetic for Robert Blake's character,
• 1:47:46
  Speaker 1: for Perry. But Dick is always a jackass. Like, I mean,
• 1:47:52
  Speaker 1: he's just always going out of his way to, to like,
• 1:47:56
  Speaker 1: not only like show that he could care less about
• 1:47:59
  Speaker 1: the victims, but by the end of the story, he's
• 1:48:03
  Speaker 1: even like belittling his partner and like, just kind of
• 1:48:06
  Speaker 1: going out of his way to be a jerk to him.
• 1:48:08
  Speaker 1: So it is weird, like watching these two performances. And
• 1:48:11
  Speaker 1: then as you get to the flashbacks, it's like, it's
• 1:48:13
  Speaker 1: even more interesting as it unfolds because he's still like,
• 1:48:17
  Speaker 1: you know, Perry is, is, the reason they get themselves
• 1:48:21
  Speaker 1: in all this kind of but Dick is pushing it
• 1:48:24
  Speaker 1: the whole thing wouldn't have happened if Scott Wilson's character
• 1:48:27
  Speaker 1: hadn't been there pushing it the whole way through so
• 1:48:30
  Speaker 1: it's again it's one of those you cannot have one
• 1:48:33
  Speaker 1: or the other as a villain because they don't work
• 1:48:35
  Speaker 1: separately the whole thing would not have come together without
• 1:48:39
  Speaker 1: both of them being there to do their weird parts.
• 1:48:41
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 1:48:44
  Speaker 1: It's such an amazing movie. I don't think I realized
• 1:48:47
  Speaker 1: it's a pretty damn long movie. Like it's like a
• 1:48:49
  Speaker 1: good two and a half, close to three hours. And
• 1:48:52
  Speaker 1: it's like this take on so many other things. Like
• 1:48:55
  Speaker 1: I remembered it being more about just the murder and,
• 1:48:57
  Speaker 1: you know, everything in the house. I think I forgot
• 1:48:59
  Speaker 1: how broken up the order is. And then like the
• 1:49:03
  Speaker 1: last half of it becomes this, like, look at the
• 1:49:05
  Speaker 1: judicial system thing. And all the weird stuff that goes
• 1:49:09
  Speaker 1: on once you're on death row, it really takes almost
• 1:49:12
  Speaker 1: a documentary look at it. It really does kind of
• 1:49:17
  Speaker 1: break down the weird stuff that was going on at
• 1:49:19
  Speaker 1: the time and probably isn't much different now once you
• 1:49:21
  Speaker 1: get on death row. So it also has this weird
• 1:49:24
  Speaker 1: take on the judicial system when they're doing the trial.
• 1:49:27
  Speaker 1: It has this kind of calling to the media into it.
• 1:49:32
  Speaker 1: He does a very specific address of how the press
• 1:49:36
  Speaker 1: treats the cops going into the situation and how they
• 1:49:39
  Speaker 1: will kind of work their angle at every turn from the,
• 1:49:43
  Speaker 1: from when the murder happens all the way until the,
• 1:49:45
  Speaker 1: the hanging. So it's like, it addresses so many different things,
• 1:49:50
  Speaker 1: but so much of it hinges on these two performances.
• 1:49:53
  Speaker 1: And as good as everybody else is, those two are
• 1:49:56
  Speaker 1: amazing to watch. And my real world tie in is, um,
• 1:50:00
  Speaker 1: one of our last little run-ins going to the, the
• 1:50:03
  Speaker 1: flea market, We're digging through stuff, and Stig goes, hey, look,
• 1:50:07
  Speaker 1: here's this magazine. And it's got Robert.
• 1:50:09
  Speaker 2: Blake on it.
• 1:50:10
  Speaker 1: It's an old film magazine. And like old in maybe early,
• 1:50:15
  Speaker 1: it might have been late 70s. Late 70s, maybe really
• 1:50:18
  Speaker 1: early 80s. And I flipped it open, and inside is
• 1:50:21
  Speaker 1: a picture of Robert at home, palling around with the
• 1:50:24
  Speaker 1: old lady. And I'm just like, oh. Yeah, I'm buying this.
• 1:50:28
  Speaker 1: This is dark and twisted in a way I wasn't
• 1:50:31
  Speaker 1: even ready for. Well, I didn't know how long that
• 1:50:33
  Speaker 1: particular relationship was, so I'm not sure.
• 1:50:36
  Speaker 2: Was it the same old lady? I think it was. Okay.
• 1:50:38
  Speaker 1: I will go back and double check.
• 1:50:39
  Speaker 2: She had a long history of, you know, getting involved.
• 1:50:43
  Speaker 8: Jerry Lee Lewis.
• 1:50:45
  Speaker 7: Another killer.
• 1:50:45
  Speaker 8: Different kind of killer.
• 1:50:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, maybe. Same kind, really.
• 1:50:49
  Speaker 1: Same kind.
• 1:50:50
  Speaker 2: Who knows?
• 1:50:51
  Speaker 5: No.
• 1:50:52
  Speaker 2: Maybe.
• 1:50:53
  Speaker 8: Have you heard that story of that relationship with the
• 1:50:56
  Speaker 8: way the sister tells it?
• 1:50:57
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure if I've heard everything.
• 1:50:59
  Speaker 8: I guess Jerry Lee's sister was living with him, and
• 1:51:02
  Speaker 8: she was just the one that would screen women that
• 1:51:04
  Speaker 8: would come to the door who were just there to
• 1:51:06
  Speaker 8: have sex with Jerry Lee Lewis. And one day this
• 1:51:08
  Speaker 8: woman shows up, and she goes upstairs, and Jerry Lee says,
• 1:51:12
  Speaker 8: you know, is she attractive? And he says, yeah, she's
• 1:51:14
  Speaker 8: pretty pretty, and sends her on up. And that's how
• 1:51:17
  Speaker 8: they met. It became an item.
• 1:51:19
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:51:19
  Speaker 8: Great romance.
• 1:51:21
  Speaker 2: That's a very interesting universe. Because I wasn't paying a
• 1:51:25
  Speaker 2: lot of attention to it back during the trial. But
• 1:51:27
  Speaker 2: then I started looking into the past and all of that.
• 1:51:30
  Speaker 2: I was like, wow.
• 1:51:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:51:31
  Speaker 8: I think she dated Christian Brando, too.
• 1:51:33
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:51:33
  Speaker 2: A lot of people. A lot of people in the wake.
• 1:51:35
  Speaker 8: A lot of questionable characters.
• 1:51:38
  Speaker 2: And weird associations.
• 1:51:40
  Speaker 1: This was Robert's wife?
• 1:51:42
  Speaker 8: Bonnie Lee Blakely?
• 1:51:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Okay. Yeah. She was a serial dater.
• 1:51:48
  Speaker 1: Of famous people or just general?
• 1:51:50
  Speaker 2: Celebrities. She liked celebrities. She liked to try to get
• 1:51:52
  Speaker 2: as much as she could out of them, you know?
• 1:51:54
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of people like that, I'm assuming, hanging
• 1:51:56
  Speaker 1: around Hollywood.
• 1:51:57
  Speaker 2: Did she do that? Sure. Did Robert kill her? Sure.
• 1:51:59
  Speaker 2: No question.
• 1:52:02
  Speaker 1: But yeah, that only adds another weird level to that
• 1:52:06
  Speaker 1: performance because that's what makes it so weird. Because it's
• 1:52:10
  Speaker 1: like you can watch him in Lost Highway and just
• 1:52:13
  Speaker 1: be creeped out for all reasons. Like, yeah, he really
• 1:52:16
  Speaker 1: is a creepy dude. But in this one, he's still
• 1:52:19
  Speaker 1: relatively young, and his character is so.
• 1:52:21
  Speaker 2: He's a good actor.
• 1:52:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he's a great actor, specifically in that role. And
• 1:52:25
  Speaker 1: those scenes, like, they give you so much reason to
• 1:52:29
  Speaker 1: feel for him. Where, again, you don't get anything from
• 1:52:31
  Speaker 1: Scott Lawson's character.
• 1:52:33
  Speaker 2: He's just.
• 1:52:33
  Speaker 1: He even has parents. Like, that's the only humanity he has,
• 1:52:37
  Speaker 1: is he's like, oh, I'm leaving behind my parents. You know,
• 1:52:39
  Speaker 1: you don't have anybody.
• 1:52:40
  Speaker 2: You're an orphan.
• 1:52:40
  Speaker 1: So it's like the whole, like, you know, losing his
• 1:52:44
  Speaker 1: parents and... Not really. He grew up in an orphanage,
• 1:52:47
  Speaker 1: but then they still have the dad scenario that comes
• 1:52:50
  Speaker 1: back into play. So everything about his story just makes
• 1:52:53
  Speaker 1: it more and more sad and gives you more and
• 1:52:55
  Speaker 1: more reason to understand that like he is mentally damaged.
• 1:52:59
  Speaker 1: And like even he was aware of that, which again
• 1:53:02
  Speaker 1: brings almost like a weird mental health issue that they
• 1:53:05
  Speaker 1: bring up too. Like it addresses all this stuff, but
• 1:53:07
  Speaker 1: super subtly. Well, some of them are get a little
• 1:53:10
  Speaker 1: heavy handed at the end, but like the mental health
• 1:53:11
  Speaker 1: one is like, you know, he's talking to the psychiatrist
• 1:53:15
  Speaker 1: towards the end when he's about to, you know, go
• 1:53:18
  Speaker 1: up and be hung. And he's like, yeah, I knew,
• 1:53:20
  Speaker 1: I tried to tell you, you wouldn't listen that I
• 1:53:23
  Speaker 1: was not ready to go back out into the world.
• 1:53:25
  Speaker 1: And it makes you kind of like, of all the
• 1:53:27
  Speaker 1: weird stuff that goes on, it's like his character is
• 1:53:30
  Speaker 1: the one they always come back and make you feel
• 1:53:32
  Speaker 1: sorry for. And it's like, that's really weird now knowing
• 1:53:35
  Speaker 1: what a weird creepy dude he was in the real
• 1:53:37
  Speaker 1: world that you're like, but I want to like this guy, but,
• 1:53:41
  Speaker 1: He killed people too. So I don't know what to do.
• 1:53:43
  Speaker 1: This is confusing. So that was my last duo.
• 1:53:49
  Speaker 7: You know, I was kind of torn on like, okay,
• 1:53:51
  Speaker 7: we're getting down to some last ones. I like have
• 1:53:53
  Speaker 7: just another list of.
• 1:53:55
  Speaker 1: Um, again, if we need to roll this over into
• 1:53:58
  Speaker 1: a part two, we can do that at a later date.
• 1:54:01
  Speaker 1: Cause we've come up with quite.
• 1:54:02
  Speaker 7: A few, but I guess the last one I'll mention
• 1:54:05
  Speaker 7: for today and I'll just go with it just because, um,
• 1:54:09
  Speaker 7: If anything, I suppose that it becomes topical in this
• 1:54:15
  Speaker 7: current environment. One of the characters from the movie V
• 1:54:19
  Speaker 7: for Vendetta, which has become almost eerily, I don't want
• 1:54:25
  Speaker 7: to say prophetic yet, knock on wood. But out of
• 1:54:29
  Speaker 7: all the characters in that, I would have to go
• 1:54:31
  Speaker 7: with Mr. Creedy, who's like the right-hand man character. to
• 1:54:36
  Speaker 7: the Supreme Chancellor, because the Chancellor, played by John Hurt, always...
• 1:54:40
  Speaker 7: I love him in that role. I mean, John Hurt's
• 1:54:42
  Speaker 7: great in anything. He's totally just ham-ended up. But you're
• 1:54:47
  Speaker 7: never really scared of him. He's never, like, a major threat,
• 1:54:50
  Speaker 7: because he's always just behind the screen, and he's got
• 1:54:52
  Speaker 7: all these men doing stuff for him. But when you
• 1:54:56
  Speaker 7: first meet, like, all of his, you know, like, his
• 1:55:00
  Speaker 7: main five, I think in the original... comic book they're
• 1:55:03
  Speaker 7: referred to as like you know the eye of england
• 1:55:06
  Speaker 7: and the the ear like they're all parts of the
• 1:55:08
  Speaker 7: body that work for him mr creedy is the finger
• 1:55:11
  Speaker 7: he's got the fingermen that go out and um out
• 1:55:15
  Speaker 7: of everybody like when the chancellor will go off on
• 1:55:18
  Speaker 7: these rants they just seem sort of confused at times
• 1:55:20
  Speaker 7: or uncomfortable they're like you can tell that they're in
• 1:55:24
  Speaker 7: it for the job but they don't necessarily buy into
• 1:55:26
  Speaker 7: the politics whereas creedy is this character who absolutely, you
• 1:55:31
  Speaker 7: can tell, just relishes being as evil as he can
• 1:55:35
  Speaker 7: for the state. And on top of that, he's also
• 1:55:37
  Speaker 7: the one who's basically waiting for the moment right, or
• 1:55:41
  Speaker 7: where the moment is right, so that way he can
• 1:55:42
  Speaker 7: take over from the Chancellor. You know, he's got a
• 1:55:45
  Speaker 7: bunch of his men who are close to him, so
• 1:55:47
  Speaker 7: that way, when the day comes, as does happen in
• 1:55:50
  Speaker 7: the final act, it's like, he can just move on in.
• 1:55:54
  Speaker 7: So it's like he's gotten close just so that way
• 1:55:56
  Speaker 7: he can get that power. And, I don't know, I mean, just...
• 1:56:00
  Speaker 7: I don't want to draw any allegories to current political figures,
• 1:56:04
  Speaker 7: but I think.
• 1:56:04
  Speaker 2: People haven't all shown their hands yet.
• 1:56:06
  Speaker 7: Yeah, exactly. But, um, I don't know. I, in a
• 1:56:10
  Speaker 7: movie to where it's, it kind of gives you chills
• 1:56:12
  Speaker 7: just seeing, you know, how dark, um, you know, you
• 1:56:16
  Speaker 7: can have this sort of weird 1984, you know, type realm. Um,
• 1:56:20
  Speaker 7: I'd say he's probably the one that is, um, the
• 1:56:24
  Speaker 7: coldest of all the politicians involved.
• 1:56:27
  Speaker 1: Well politician it was funny as you said that i
• 1:56:29
  Speaker 1: was like truthfully i guess i don't.
• 1:56:31
  Speaker 7: Know if i call him a politician but basically the
• 1:56:33
  Speaker 7: the members of the state i guess.
• 1:56:35
  Speaker 10: Well i was gonna say it's arguable that you could
• 1:56:38
  Speaker 10: put v in that category i mean just for what
• 1:56:41
  Speaker 10: he does to her alone it's pretty sick and twisted yeah.
• 1:56:45
  Speaker 1: And then the fact that like again depending on what
• 1:56:48
  Speaker 1: side of the story you're on he's just a He
• 1:56:51
  Speaker 1: is just a terrorist, basically. So, granted, we think the other,
• 1:56:55
  Speaker 1: you know, the main body of power is corrupt and,
• 1:56:59
  Speaker 1: you know, horrible anyway. But, again, I rewatched it a
• 1:57:03
  Speaker 1: couple years ago, and I was like, I had a
• 1:57:05
  Speaker 1: very different take on, like, everything that was going on
• 1:57:07
  Speaker 1: and all the stuff from both sides. I'm like, it's
• 1:57:10
  Speaker 1: a weird, really complicated story that, like, I still applaud
• 1:57:15
  Speaker 1: them for making it, but it's a weird.
• 1:57:16
  Speaker 2: It's pretty daring.
• 1:57:18
  Speaker 1: Take to have from all angles, really.
• 1:57:21
  Speaker 7: Yeah, when it first came out, I watched it, and
• 1:57:23
  Speaker 7: I'm like, eh, it was sort of fun.
• 1:57:25
  Speaker 1: I saw it in the theater, I was like, yeah, okay.
• 1:57:27
  Speaker 7: But as time went on and I re-watched it, I'm like,
• 1:57:29
  Speaker 7: this is a whole lot, there's a lot more going
• 1:57:31
  Speaker 7: on than I gave it credit the first time I
• 1:57:33
  Speaker 7: watched it. And I also realized that bringing up Guy
• 1:57:37
  Speaker 7: Fawkes potentially leads into one of your last ones, Dave.
• 1:57:39
  Speaker 2: Yes, we'll get to that.
• 1:57:41
  Speaker 8: Well my number one is truly and legitimately my number
• 1:57:44
  Speaker 8: one because I think it's an underrated performance but I
• 1:57:46
  Speaker 8: also think it's one of the most underrated films and
• 1:57:49
  Speaker 8: it's an underrated performance by what I consider to be
• 1:57:51
  Speaker 8: one of the most underrated actors in a very famous
• 1:57:53
  Speaker 8: Hollywood dynasty and that is Danny Houston in The Proposition
• 1:57:57
  Speaker 8: playing Arthur Burns. To me one of the most terrifying
• 1:58:02
  Speaker 8: characters maybe ever because he pretends to have a code
• 1:58:05
  Speaker 8: which is family first but that's not really part of
• 1:58:08
  Speaker 8: it at all. He's just a psychotic sociopathic monster and
• 1:58:13
  Speaker 8: the scene where Ray Winstone and Emily Watson are putting
• 1:58:16
  Speaker 8: together their Christmas dinner knowing very well that he is
• 1:58:18
  Speaker 8: on his way and that something horrible is going to
• 1:58:20
  Speaker 8: happen the dread knowing what an insane monster he is
• 1:58:25
  Speaker 8: and what in God's name he could do to these
• 1:58:27
  Speaker 8: people I think is incredible I love that movie very
• 1:58:30
  Speaker 8: much I.
• 1:58:31
  Speaker 2: Do too yeah that's on my top ten list of
• 1:58:34
  Speaker 2: unpleasant Christmas really it's like.
• 1:58:38
  Speaker 1: Oh pleasant Christmas experiences real life and cinematic.
• 1:58:41
  Speaker 2: Alright yeah I said I'd get back to Laird Kreger
• 1:58:46
  Speaker 2: and Guy Fawkes and I will but I gotta say
• 1:58:52
  Speaker 2: my favorite cinematic villain of all time is Julian Carswell
• 1:58:55
  Speaker 2: in Curse of the Demon yeah Neil McGuinness, who is
• 1:59:00
  Speaker 2: a very pathos-ridden villain. Essentially Aleister Crowley, with a bit
• 1:59:06
  Speaker 2: of a conscience. Who brings about all this horrific death
• 1:59:11
  Speaker 2: and destruction, but realizes if it doesn't happen to them,
• 1:59:14
  Speaker 2: it's going to happen to him. And it's revealed very
• 1:59:19
  Speaker 2: cleverly in the film. That's my number one, but I'll
• 1:59:23
  Speaker 2: get back to Laird. Hangover Square. Very interesting movie. Larry
• 1:59:32
  Speaker 2: Craig was a very interesting actor. Very often compared to
• 1:59:37
  Speaker 2: Vincent Price. Better. Better actor. Wanted to be a leading man,
• 1:59:43
  Speaker 2: but he was huge. He was this massive... man and.
• 1:59:46
  Speaker 7: He was almost sort of like a Victor Buono sort of.
• 1:59:48
  Speaker 2: Buono meets Price and he's just amazing to watch and
• 1:59:52
  Speaker 2: he played the Ripper in the Lodger and then a
• 1:59:56
  Speaker 2: year or two later for Fox they did Hangover Square
• 2:00:00
  Speaker 2: he bought the novel and wanted to make this which
• 2:00:01
  Speaker 2: is George Harvey Bone he's a composer of music and
• 2:00:07
  Speaker 2: he's frustrated he has blackouts and then you realize when
• 2:00:10
  Speaker 2: he has blackouts he kills and you don't want this
• 2:00:13
  Speaker 2: to be true you don't want any of this to
• 2:00:15
  Speaker 2: be true but he does these things and just a
• 2:00:19
  Speaker 2: magnificent tortured performance and his experience while making the film
• 2:00:23
  Speaker 2: was torturous because he wanted to be this matinee idol character.
• 2:00:26
  Speaker 7: So he went on this crash diet it was like
• 2:00:30
  Speaker 7: 200 pounds he lost he lost like 200 pounds within
• 2:00:32
  Speaker 7: the course of.
• 2:00:33
  Speaker 2: Like a year they had to shoot the film in
• 2:00:34
  Speaker 2: sequence because they wanted to show the deterioration yeah which
• 2:00:39
  Speaker 2: drove the director mad they didn't get along but they
• 2:00:43
  Speaker 2: shot it in sequence so you could see him literally
• 2:00:45
  Speaker 2: It's changing. And amphetamines prescribed by the studio doc. And
• 2:00:54
  Speaker 2: George Sanders is also in it, a wonderful bad guy
• 2:00:57
  Speaker 2: who apparently had a fist fight. Nobody got along very
• 2:00:59
  Speaker 2: well in this film.
• 2:01:00
  Speaker 7: And George Sanders is also with him in the lodger too.
• 2:01:04
  Speaker 2: But a magnificent scene where he's killed this woman and
• 2:01:06
  Speaker 2: he's carrying her body. It's Guy Fawkes and he's carrying
• 2:01:09
  Speaker 2: her body wrapped up. Through the streets.
• 2:01:11
  Speaker 7: As a Guy Fawkes dummy.
• 2:01:13
  Speaker 6: As a dummy.
• 2:01:13
  Speaker 7: They're making a big bonfire.
• 2:01:14
  Speaker 2: He's going to put her on the bonfire. And he does.
• 2:01:16
  Speaker 2: He puts her on the bonfire and exposes the body.
• 2:01:18
  Speaker 2: With this incredible ending where he's sitting there playing his
• 2:01:23
  Speaker 2: concerto as the house burns down around him. Everything's just
• 2:01:26
  Speaker 2: collapsing and falling. He's just playing madly. Brilliant. And he
• 2:01:29
  Speaker 2: died before the film was released. So it's a movie that,
• 2:01:32
  Speaker 2: you know, it killed him. Yeah. And he channeled all
• 2:01:34
  Speaker 2: that into that villain. So that's about as... close in
• 2:01:39
  Speaker 2: association as you can get with an actor in a role.
• 2:01:42
  Speaker 7: It's a dark Hollywood death. And even Sanders, George Sanders,
• 2:01:47
  Speaker 7: committed suicide. He'd always said, he's like, I'll commit suicide
• 2:01:52
  Speaker 7: when I just kind of get tired of acting. And
• 2:01:57
  Speaker 7: that's what Sanders wrote in his suicide note. It's like,
• 2:02:01
  Speaker 7: I'm incredibly bored with all this.
• 2:02:02
  Speaker 2: I think this is right after he did Psychomania.
• 2:02:08
  Speaker 7: I can't remember.
• 2:02:09
  Speaker 2: Which I love. Great movie. But he played the butler
• 2:02:11
  Speaker 2: in Psychomania. Went long after that. He decided, well, this
• 2:02:14
  Speaker 2: is it.
• 2:02:16
  Speaker 7: To go back to Carswell, though, I love the... There's
• 2:02:19
  Speaker 7: such a wonderful... I mean, there's a lot of wonderful
• 2:02:21
  Speaker 7: moments in that movie, but I think that I love
• 2:02:25
  Speaker 7: the scene where he's entertaining the children at this birthday party,
• 2:02:30
  Speaker 7: and he's dressed as a clown. And so, you know,
• 2:02:32
  Speaker 7: he's doing all this sort of, like, you know, play magic,
• 2:02:35
  Speaker 7: and the kids are very entertained.
• 2:02:36
  Speaker 2: And, you know, he then.
• 2:02:38
  Speaker 7: moments later like a couple minutes later when he's talking
• 2:02:41
  Speaker 7: about how magic is this very real thing and he's
• 2:02:43
  Speaker 7: still got the clown makeup on um uh i can't
• 2:02:48
  Speaker 7: remember the name of the um dana andrew i can't
• 2:02:51
  Speaker 7: remember dana andrew's character yeah i can't remember his name
• 2:02:53
  Speaker 7: but basically he just doesn't buy him and it's you
• 2:02:56
  Speaker 7: know it's almost like when it's very similar to when
• 2:03:01
  Speaker 7: you know you read biblical stories about um uh, Jesus
• 2:03:05
  Speaker 7: interacting with the devil. It's like, you know, they're each
• 2:03:07
  Speaker 7: one's like, we'll prove who you are. And so like
• 2:03:09
  Speaker 7: Carswell just stands there and smiles. And this, you know,
• 2:03:13
  Speaker 7: hurricane like wind just kicks up and all the kids
• 2:03:16
  Speaker 7: go back into the house and he's just smiling in
• 2:03:18
  Speaker 7: the wind and it just dies down. And Andrew's like,
• 2:03:21
  Speaker 7: he can't determine whether it just happened or whether he
• 2:03:23
  Speaker 7: did it. And, you know, it's just this, he's having
• 2:03:27
  Speaker 7: so much fun playing with him.
• 2:03:30
  Speaker 2: Yes. They have that great discussion right before that. He's like,
• 2:03:33
  Speaker 2: you know, What is this twilight between darkness and the imagination?
• 2:03:39
  Speaker 2: Where does it end? Where does one begin and the
• 2:03:41
  Speaker 2: other end? And the film kind of holds its cards
• 2:03:47
  Speaker 2: pretty close for a long time. But that's one of
• 2:03:48
  Speaker 2: the scenes where it breaks out. You realize he's done this.
• 2:03:51
  Speaker 2: He's caused this storm to come up. And famously, they
• 2:03:54
  Speaker 2: didn't originally want to show the demon. And they insisted
• 2:03:57
  Speaker 2: on showing the monster. And I think the monster looks
• 2:03:59
  Speaker 2: just fine for a 1950s movie. Originally, he was just
• 2:04:02
  Speaker 2: going to be in their mind, following them around. But
• 2:04:06
  Speaker 2: he's desperate at the end not to be consumed by this.
• 2:04:08
  Speaker 2: He has conversations with his mom. She's a real sweet lady, Mrs. Carswell.
• 2:04:13
  Speaker 2: Trying to explain, well, you know, we have all this
• 2:04:15
  Speaker 2: because of my followers who follow me out of fear.
• 2:04:21
  Speaker 2: She's kind of daffy and never quite picks up on it,
• 2:04:23
  Speaker 2: but it's a great movie.
• 2:04:26
  Speaker 6: Well, you can hear the.
• 2:04:27
  Speaker 1: Closing theme playing behind us as this episode crashes around.
• 2:04:33
  Speaker 1: I did want to say I've thought of at least
• 2:04:35
  Speaker 1: two while we're doing this that weren't on my list
• 2:04:38
  Speaker 1: along with my alternates. So we could easily come back
• 2:04:41
  Speaker 1: and return to this category if you would like. So
• 2:04:44
  Speaker 1: you guys, if you enjoyed this, let us know. We'll
• 2:04:46
  Speaker 1: do another round of it.
• 2:04:47
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 2:04:49
  Speaker 1: Otherwise, I think that about does it. We will return
• 2:04:51
  Speaker 1: next time. Same Geek Feed.
• 2:04:53
  Speaker 7: Thanks for listening.
• 2:04:55
  Speaker 2: We'll be right back.
• 2:05:12
  Speaker 3: All day, all night, I've been thinking why feeling wrong
• 2:05:17
  Speaker 3: feels so right. And I know, yeah, I've tried to
• 2:05:21
  Speaker 3: turn myself around, but I know what I like. I
• 2:05:25
  Speaker 3: ain't nice, no, I'm quite a dick. I'm the bad
• 2:05:28
  Speaker 3: guy who's making you sick. It's easy for me, I've
• 2:05:32
  Speaker 3: got no shame.
• 2:05:33
  Speaker 5: I'm in it for the money.
• 2:05:41
  Speaker 4: See you next time.
• 2:06:26
  Speaker 3: We'll see you next time.
• 2:07:22
  Speaker 7: So we fill in the water and I'm like, oh wait,
• 2:07:24
  Speaker 7: there's actually Anne Ramsey's goodies. Paul Sorvino from The Rocketeer.
• 2:07:31
  Speaker 1: You're just going to pick all your favorites from your refrigerator.
• 2:07:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:07:35
  Speaker 6: This episode is a production of Movie Meltdown, produced and
• 2:07:38
  Speaker 6: edited by The Oddity Studios, with opening music performed by
• 2:07:41
  Speaker 6: The Empires. For more on how to sponsor or support
• 2:07:44
  Speaker 6: the show, Email producer at moviemeltdown.com.
• 2:07:47
  Speaker 5: Talk hard!