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The Catcher in the Rye Ch. 19: The Loneliest Kid at the Bar | Banned Books Comedy · Banned Camp: Banned Books, Comedy, and Free Speech vs. Censorship

Welcome to Band Camp.
I'm Jennifer.
And I'm Dan, and this is the podcast where we read band books and try to figure out why they were banned in the first place.
This season we're reading The Catcher in the Rye by JD Salinger.
And you should consider this a quick spoiler warning because Jennifer's about to start reading from the book out.
Loud word for word.
But here's the thing, if you're new, you're totally fine.
Starting out here.
We're gonna get you oriented real quick, and if you get confused, there's a very good chance, in fact there's we, it's almost a guaranteed chance that we are gonna be confused too.
Why? Because we've never read the book either.
It's one of the things that makes our podcast special.
I like to look at it as special.
We come in completely clueless, but.
Don't worry about it because if you do get confused, we have a secret weapon for you and we're gonna bring him in right now.
Robot, come on in here.
Look at this guy.
We have ourselves a fact checking robot and he's gonna fill us in on where we left off last time in the catcher in the rye, beepboop.
Previously on Band Camp Holden sat through a movie so bad.
He described the entire pod just to prove how bad it was.
It was a real stinker.
We're talking Gilligan's Island level.
Dan got mad at me because he said I didn't give them enough context about the book at the beginning of the season.
He wanted to start over at chapter one to then I publicly apologize to Dan.
Dan, I am sorry your little brain can't keep up.
I'm sure Jennifer is thrilled.
We are not starting over and are about to begin chapter 19.
Humans spend considerable energy, despising qualities, and others that they themselves possess.
What I find harder to explain is when they do it on purpose, take it away, Jennifer.
Thank you Robot.
And with that being said, scary book people.
Let's begin Chapter 19 of JD Salinger's, the Catcher in the Rye, in case you don't live in New York, the Wicker Bar is in the sort of swanky hotel, the Seton Hotel.
I used to go there quite a bit, but I don't anymore.
I gradually cut it out.
Wait, he used to go to the swanky bar, the wicker bar.
Of course, the 16-year-old used to go to the, uh, wicker bar a lot.
YEah.
When he hit 13, Jennifer, he thought, I gotta, I gotta back off the sauce a You just gradually, it's one of those places that are supposed to be very sophisticated and all, and the phonies are coming in the window.
Has there ever been a place where Holden went in this book so far where the place is not full of phonies? yeah.
the, the kid's skating rink or the playground or the museum? I think Holden is like setting himself up.
I think he has a future opening a daycare center or maybe a preschool.
Why doesn't he open a Waldorf? It would be a wonderful life for him.
He really should.
They used to have these two French babes, Tina and Janine come out and play the piano and sing about three times every night.
One of them played the piano strictly lousy, and the other one sang.
Most of the songs were either pretty dirty or in French.
The one that sang old Janine was always whispering into the goddamn microphone before she sang, she'd say, And now we like to give you our impression of VV Franze.
It is the story of little French girl who comes to a big city just like New York and falls in love.
Wes, a little boy from Brooklyn.
We hope you like eat.
Oh, that's good, Jennifer.
Now could you do Melania's script from her movie? Here we go again.
That sounded very Wisconsin, Norwegian.
Can you imagine Trump getting a mail order bride from Wisconsin? Like he picks out a girl from Sheboygan or Manitowoc or something? Oh, yeah.
I'm ready to move to Washington DC and take a dump in your big gold toilet over there.
Oh, for dare, Then when she was all done whispering and being cute as hell, she'd sing some dopey song, half in English and half in French, and drive all the phonies in the place mad with joy.
If you sat around there long enough and heard all the phonies applauding and all, you got to hate everybody in the world.
I swear you did.
The bartender was a Laos too.
He was a big snob.
Everyone's so snobby.
He is just got an inferiority complex.
Right.
He didn't talk to you at all hardly unless you were a big shot or a celebrity or something.
If you were a big shot or a celebrity, then he was even more nauseating.
He'd go up to you and say, with this big, charming smile, like he was a hell of a swell guy if you knew him.
Well, how's Connecticut? Or how's Florida? It was a terrible place.
I'm not kidding.
I cut out going there entirely, gradually again, when was this? When you're 16 punk, it was pretty early when I got there.
I sat down at the bar, it was pretty crowded and had a couple of scotch and sodas before Old loose even showed up.
I stood up when I ordered them so they could see how tall I was and not think I was a goddamn minor.
Then I watched the phonies for a while.
Some guy next to me was snowing hell out of the babe he was with.
He kept telling her she had aristocratic hands that killed me.
The other end of the bar was full of flits.
I don't know what that means, but It, sounds derogatory.
doesn't sound good.
Jennifer, what's a flit robot? Blitz is 1950s slang for gay men derogatory.
Obviously, Holden uses it the way most people in 1950s New York would have casually without thinking twice.
This is one of those words that tells you more about the era than the character.
Although knowing Holden, he's about to have opinions about it that are more complicated than the word suggests.
All right.
Thank you, robot.
I knew it was derogatory.
Alright, then they weren't, oh God.
They weren't too flitty looking.
I mean, they didn't have their hair too long or anything, but you could tell Why does he have to keep saying the word over and over again? Flitty isn't like the N word though.
It's still bad, it's like fruity.
Is it really.
I, I think so.
Is is flitty like fruity, but.
This is unreal.
Yes, FL and fruity and swishy and Liberace are similar.
My God, you too waste so much of my precious time and talent.
I have a mind to roll my sweet bucket out of here.
Old loose.
What a guy.
He was supposed to be my student advisor when I was at Wooten.
The only thing he ever did though was give these sex talks late at night when there was a bunch of guys in his room.
He knew quite a bit about sex, especially perverts and all.
He was always telling us about a lot of creepy guys that go around having affairs with sheep.
Guys that go around with girls' pants sewed in the lining of their hats and all.
No.
These are things I never thought of.
Like, who does this? Old Loose knew every flit and lesbian in the United States.
All you had to do was mention somebody.
Anybody and old loose would tell you if he was a flit or not.
Sometimes it was hard to believe the people he said were FLS and lesbians and all even some movie actors...
Some of the ones he said, were fls, were even married for God's sake.
You keep saying to him, you mean Joe blows a FL Joe Blow, that big tough guy that plays gangsters and cowboys all the time.
And old loose would say certainly, he was always saying, certainly, he said it didn't matter if a guy was married or not.
He said half the married guys in the world were flits and didn't even know it.
he said you could turn into one practically overnight if you had all the traits.
He used to scare the hell out of us.
I kept waiting to turn into a flit or something.
The funny thing about old Loose, I used to think he was sort of flitty himself in a way.
Well, I don't know, maybe.
he's not really passing judgment on gay people.
He's just saying this is a guy who seems to understand gay yeah, he could also just be talking about how people pretend, cause people still pretend, right? maybe he's actually making a point that you should be free to just be.
Gay.
Right? Like, maybe it's like people pretend, you know, they get married and everything and not that it's their fault, like they're living in a society that forces them maybe this is one of his points where society shouldn't force people to be any which way, Wow, that's such a good point.
Because according to Holden, the world is already full of phonies He was always saying, try this for size, and then he'd goose the hell out of you while you were going down the corridor and whenever he went to the can, he always left the goddamn door open and talked to you while you were brushing your teeth or something.
That's just bad manners.
That stuff's sort of flitty.
It really is.
I've known quite a few real flits at schools and all, and they're always doing stuff like that and that's why I always had my doubts about Old Loose.
He was a pretty intelligent guy though.
He really was.
He never said hello or anything.
When he met you.
The first thing he said when he sat down was that he could only stay a couple of minutes.
He said he had a date.
Then he ordered a dry martini.
He told the bartender to make it very dry.
No olive.
Hey, I got a flip for you.
I told him at the end of the bar, don't look now.
I've been saving him for you.
Very funny.
He said, yes.
Ridiculous.
Same old Caulfield.
When are you going to grow up? I bored him a lot.
I really did, but he amused me.
He was one of those guys that sort of amused me a lot.
How's your sex life? I asked him, he hated you to ask him stuff like that.
Relax.
He said, just sit back and relax for Christ's sake.
I am relaxed.
I said, how's Columbia? You like it? Certainly I like it.
If I didn't like it, I wouldn't have gone there.
He said he could be pretty boring himself sometimes.
What are you majoring in? I asked him perverts.
I was only horsing around.
What are you trying to be funny? No, I'm only kidding.
I said.
Listen loose.
You're one of those intellectual guys.
I need your advice.
I am in a terrific, he let out this big groan on me.
Listen ca field, if you wanna sit here and have a quiet, peaceful drink and a quiet, peaceful converse.
All right, I'll write.
I said, relax.
You could tell he didn't like discussing anything serious with me.
That's the trouble with these intellectual guys.
They never wanna discuss anything serious unless they feel like it.
So all I did was I started discussing topics in general with him.
No kidding.
How's your sex life? I asked him.
You still going around with that same babe you used to at Wooten? The one with the terrific good God No.
He said how come what happened to her? I haven't the faintest idea.
For all I know, since you ask.
She's probably the horror of New Hampshire by this time.
That isn't nice.
If she was decent enough to let you get sexy with her all the time, you at least shouldn't talk about her that way.
Oh, God.
Lou said, is this going to be a typical call field conversation? it's bad when your reputation precedes you.
When you have.
This gonna be a typical Jennifer call.
Ugh.
that's just really insulting.
Like why is he putting up with that? Like, why does he wanna talk to this guy? Holden never wants to be alone.
But I, I feel like he's never been close to anyone in his life, so he's like, he's always craving closeness, but he never laid down the groundwork to make that be a thing, Well, because he doesn't like, he doesn't like anyone.
it's kind of like you have to like people, does he just like people that don't like him? you know what I tell my dog, Foxy when I take him for a walk.
'cause it is always barking.
do you tell Foxy? I have never been any place walking Foxy where other dogs don't appear and Foxy just starts barking.
So I will reason with him and I will go.
Foxy, the world is a lonely place if you bark at everyone.
That's what I wanna tell Holden.
Holden start being nicer to people.
The world is a lonely place if you're being, uh, Holden about everything Is this going to be a typical call field conversation? I want to know right now.
No.
I said, but it isn't nice anyway.
If she was decent and nice enough to let you must we pursue this horrible trend of thought.
I didn't say anything else.
I was sort of afraid he'd get up and leave on me if I didn't shut up.
So all I did was I ordered another drink.
I felt like getting stinking drunk.
Who are you going around with now? I asked him what's like the third time he asked Why does he wanna talk about this? Right.
Just change the subject, Holden.
Do you feel like telling me.
Nobody, you know? Yeah, but who I might know.
Her girl lives in the village sculpts, if you must know.
Yeah.
No kidding.
How old is she? I've never asked her for God's sake.
Well, around how old? I should imagine.
She's in her late thirties, old Lou said in her late thirties.
Yeah.
You like that? I asked him.
Holden, you're turning into Ley.
Quit asking him questions.
This is like, do you remember when you were trying to read your book in peace and then old Ley came in and started asking you questions over, where'd you get your hat? New York, how much was it? You paid a dollar.
Remember that this is what you are doing to old.
Loose.
Loose.
Came down to the bar.
Wants to see an old friend.
Be cool.
Have a cool chit chat, couple drinks, and then hit the road.
You're driving him crazy? it's like a little kid pestering him.
why do you care how old his girlfriend is? He doesn't even care.
in her late thirties.
Yeah.
You like that? I asked him.
You like him that old? The reason I was asking was because he really knew quite a bit about sex and all.
He was one of the few guys I knew that did, he lost his virginity when he was only 14 in Nantucket.
He really did.
I like a mature person, if that's what you mean.
Certainly.
You do.
Why? No kidding.
They better for sex and all.
Listen, let's get one thing straight.
I refuse to answer any typical call field questions tonight.
When in hell are you going to grow up? I didn't say anything for a while.
I let it drop Then old loose, ordered another martini and told the bartender to make it a lot drier.
Listen, how long you've been going around with her? This sculpture paper I asked him.
I was really interested.
Did you know her when you were at Wooten? Hardly.
She just arrived in this country a few months ago.
She did.
Where she from? Sheboygan Manitowoc.
Oh, what's happening over here in this bar now? What did they call this one? Ooh, to wicker bar over here oncet.
She happens to be from Shanghai.
No kidding.
She Chinese for Christ's sake, obviously.
No kidding.
Do you like that? Her being Chinese Thank you for your time, Holden.
I gotta hit the road.
7:00 AM Comes around real fast in the morning.
Gotta go by.
Just gone.
Do you like that? Her being Chinese? Well, obviously why? I'd be interested to know.
I really would.
I simply happen to find Eastern philosophy more satisfactory than Western.
Since you ask you do, what do you mean philosophy? You mean sex and all? You mean it's better in China? That what you mean? God.
Hal, you dumbed down.
Not necessarily in China, for god's sake.
The East.
I said, must we go on with this inane conversation? Listen.
I'm serious.
I said, no kidding.
Why is it better in the east? It's too involved to go into, for God's sake.
Old Lou said they simply happen to regard sex as both a physical and a spiritual experience.
If you think I am, so do I.
So do I regard it as a, what do you call it, a physical and spiritual experience and all? I really do, but it depends on who the hell I'm doing it with.
If I'm doing it with somebody, I don't even.
Not so loud for God's sake.
Caulfield, if you can't manage to keep your voice down, let's drop the hole.
Alright? But listen, I said I was getting excited and I was talking a little too loud sometimes.
I'm a little bit loud when I get excited.
This is what I mean though.
I said, I know it's supposed to be physical and spiritual and artistic and all, but what I mean is you can't do it with everybody, every girl you neck with and all, and make it come out that way.
Can you, let's drop it.
Old Lou said, do you mind? All right.
But listen, he's not gonna drop it, said, yeah.
He just said, all right, we'll drop it, but first Alright, but listen, take you in this Chinese babe.
What's so good about you two? Drop it.
He said I was getting a little too personal.
I realized that, but that was one of the annoying things about Loose when we were at Wooten.
He'd make you describe the most personal stuff that happened to you, but if you started asking him questions about himself, he got angry.
Now I understand he wants to pick the scab a little bit.
He's literally asking him all these questions because it knows.
It makes him uncomfortable.
That's why he's doing it.
Oh, wow, I hadn't thought of that.
These intellectual guys don't like to have an intellectual conversation with you unless they're running the whole thing.
They always want you to shut up when they shut up and go back to your room.
When they go back to their room.
When I was at Wooten, old Loose, used to hate it, you really could tell he did.
When after he was finished giving his sex talk to a bunch of us in his room, we stuck around and chewed the fat by ourselves for a while.
I mean, the other guys in myself, in somebody else's room, old, loose, hated that he always wanted everybody to go back to their own room and shut up when he was finished being the big shot.
Yeah.
Old, loose needs to be the center of attention and everyone else is like just a little satellite.
Yeah.
The thing he was afraid of, he was afraid.
Somebody'd say something smarter than he had.
That's the pin right there.
Like he has to be the top.
He really amused me.
maybe I'll go to China.
My sex life is lousy.
I said naturally your mind is immature.
It is.
It really is.
I know it.
I said, You know what the trouble with me is? I can never really get sexy.
I mean really sexy with a girl.
I don't like a lot.
I mean, I have to like her a lot.
If I don't, I sort of lose my goddamn desire for her and all.
Boy, it really screws up my sex life, something awful.
My sex life stinks.
Naturally it does for God's sake.
I told you the last time I saw you what you need.
You mean to go to a psychoanalyst and all? I said, that's what he told me I ought to do.
his father was a psychoanalyst and all.
It's up to you for God's sake.
It's none of my goddamn business what you do with your life.
I didn't say anything for a while.
I was thinking.
Supposing I went to your father and had him psychoanalyze me and all.
I said, what would he do to me? I mean, what would he do to me? Boy, if that was me, Jennifer, I would hate it because you know how I don't like crossing and mixing groups of friends and family and everything.
If my dad was a psychoanalyst and then like one of my buddies from school say, Hey, I, I am gonna go see your dad.
I want him to psychoanalyze me.
I'd be like, no, no, no, no.
My dad is, no, you don't go to my dad because I think my dad then would listen to you and he'd put two and two together and figure out what's going on with me.
I think you should go to a psychoanalyst, but I think you gotta open up the phone book and find one that isn't named Dr.
Schultz.
You understand what I'm saying? Old loose.
Like what the heck's going on? It's a little weird.
It really is.
It really It really is.
And all.
he wouldn't do a goddamn thing to you.
He'd simply talk to you and you'd talk to him for God's sake.
For one thing, he'd help you recognize the patterns of your mind.
The what? The patterns of your mind.
Your mind runs in.
Listen, I'm not giving an elementary course in psychoanalysis.
If you're interested, I'll call him up and make an appointment if you're not, I don't.
I couldn't care less frankly.
I put my hand on his shoulder.
Boy, he amused me.
You're a real friendly bastard.
I told him, you know, that he was looking at his wristwatch.
I have to tear, he said, and stood up.
Nice seeing you.
He got the bartender and told him to bring him his check.
Hey.
I said, just before he beat it, did your father ever psychoanalyze you? Me? Why do you ask? No reason Did he though? Has he not exactly.
He's helped me to adjust myself to a certain extent, but an extensive analysis hasn't been necessary.
Why do you ask? No reason.
I was just wondering.
Well take it easy.
He said he was leaving his tip and all, and he was starting to go have just one more drink.
I told him, please, I'm lonesome as hell.
No kidding.
He said he couldn't do it though.
He said he was late now and then he left.
Old, loose.
He was strictly a pain in the ass, but he certainly had a good vocabulary.
He had the largest vocabulary of any boy at Wooten when I was there.
They gave us a test end of chapter.
Oh, Holden.
Holden.
Holden.
Holden, yeah.
Three guesses as to why you're so goddamn lonely.
You're trying too hard and you're being annoying to people.
Nobody wants that scary book people.
Have you ever been the annoying one in a conversation and didn't realize it until it was too late? What happened? Most embarrassing answers make the show easiest way to answer is a Spotify comment or bandcamp podcast.com/sound
off.
Woo.
It's time for PPP Problematic Points to Ponder.
What, if anything, would be considered ban worthy in this chapter? okay.
Well for PPP, there was an awful lot of gay talk and, you know, clearly, uh, that whole banning crew does not like gay talk Yeah.
of any kind.
Right.
I don't know, it seemed a little bit derogatory.
They're kind of making fun of the gay people.
So you think maybe they'd be into that? Hmm.
Who knows? I, I really don't know.
I don't understand.
That's a thing you can't put on your comfortable walking shoes and go down Crazy lane every time these guys show up and wanna ban a book for this stuff.
I don't think there was anything band worthy in there, I don't either.
And I know we usually return to the same thing every other chapter or so, but Holden, why don't you just go home? Like why are you wasting time? Like you just wasted this entire chapter Yeah.
something that was really uneventful and not moving the story forward.
get your ass home, hang out with your sister, hang out with your family.
Or you make an appointment with old Lucy's dad.
Robots log, thoughts on phonies, bad questions, and the worst kind of loneliness there is.
Carl Luce used to hold cord in dorm rooms at night, told boys about perverts, and Flits demanded they share the most personal things they had.
Then when anyone asked him a question back, he shut the door.
Holden recognized it and then sat across from him at a bar and did the exact same thing.
Dan compared Holden to his dog.
Foxy, the world is a lonely place if you bark at everyone.
He was describing Holden perfectly.
He did not notice, but Jennifer caught something sharper.
She said Maybe Salinger's.
Real point about the gay men in the bar wasn't judgment.
It was that society forces people into being phony.
That the cruelest thing a culture can do is make someone pretend to be who they're not, and then punish them for being fake.
Although I find humans are usually more wrong than right.
Jennifer caught something I didn't, and it turned out to be one of the most important observations anyone has made on this podcast in 10 seasons.
That last line though, makes a robot think I'm lonesome as hell.
No kidding.
Said to a guy who was already putting on his coat.
Standing by for today's new segment with Beowulf Rocklin.
It is time for Band Camp News.
Truth Seeker.
News Speaker Wolf Rocklin.
It's a weird name, but he's got good news because you can't ban the truth, babe.
He's broadcasting live from the good news for Lefty Studios buried deep inside his socialist safe house hidden somewhere deep in the Oregon woods.
He is Bay Wolf Rocklin, because you can't be.
Hello, Jen.
Hello Dan.
Hello.
Gary Book people.
I bring good news, and this is from the federal level.
So let me explain.
On April 6th, a federal court granted the Trump administration's request to withdraw its appeal of a federal judge's earlier ruling that struck down the administration's dismantling of the Institute of Museum and Library Services.
What is that? You may ask? The only federal agency dedicated to providing funding for the nation's libraries.
Trump tried to destroy it, don't need it, and the courts ruled against him and now they're saying, eh, well just nevermind.
We're not gonna try to do this anyway.
They're beating.
A hasty retreat.
And it's a victory.
It's a victory for people who love libraries, who like to read books, who want libraries and books funded.
And this is, this is just a fantastic thing.
The dismissal brings to an end, a lawsuit filed by the attorneys general of 21 State.
And by the way, I have to mention here because in the era of Trump on my podcast and now on your podcast.
I have used the term Attorney General a lot.
However, the plural of Attorney General is not Attorney Generals.
It is in fact attorneys general.
I have been corrected on this by listeners before very scrupulously review my verbiage, so, so I have to stay on top of that.
Good for you.
Good for everyone for knowing now.
Yes, exactly.
Trump has probably been schooled on it too, and he's like, these people are dumb.
Have you ever heard such a thing? Attorneys general anyway.
There are 21 of them representing 21 states who were involved in this decision.
And last November, the federal district court for the District of Rhode Island nullified the administration's actions to dismantle the IMLS and permanently barred the administration from taking further steps to eliminate the agency.
And now they're running away with their tail between their legs.
And I'm just all excited about that.
I think that's fantastic.
Good.
Yeah.
Tough lesson.
Tough lesson for our president.
Our president.
Moronic.
Yeah.
Our president.
Yes.
Well, if JD Vance somehow gets in there, I guess we'll have like the plural version.
I guess we can count George W.
Bush and Trump together as president's.
Moronic that would kind of Right.
As long as they're cool for sure.
JD Vance, the guy's killing it.
Can't lose.
See? Yes.
You see the recent news it's coming up and he goes and he tries to negotiate with Iran and it doesn't work out so well, and he tries to help the president of Hungary and it doesn't work out.
So well kind of think Trump is gonna say, eh, I don't know.
Why don't you just kind of s.
Stay overseas because your efforts are not being very successful.
Right.
And then, gosh, we know that Trump is successful.
Always.
It's so weird because he's obviously, obviously not, and yet he is so focused on success that if he's not, he has to constantly lie about it.
Trump in retreat.
Tail between his legs.
He can't eliminate the administration that helps fund libraries in the United States.
The Institute of Museum and Library Services stands strong and it's a victory for readers.
It's a victory for Americans and.
Hallelujah.
Mm-hmm.
Great job, president Trump.
Thanks again for failing and helping libraries.
Everybody go find good news for lefties wherever you listen to podcasts.
You can hear this man spread stories like these.
Oh so much guys.
All right.
We've caused enough literary chaos for one day.
Scary book people.
If you want the fun to keep going, follow us on Blue Sky.
Just head on over to bandcamp podcast.com/bluesky.
And remember, that's banned with two ends.
And look just like the Trump administration, we're not exactly above bribing you to get what we want.
So follow us there, drop your handle on that page, and we'll send you a little something something.
I think you'll like it.
Yes.
Little quid pro quo.
Bandcamp is produced and hosted by Dan Schultz and me, Jennifer Davis.
All media used in this episode falls under the protection of fair use, and finally, America isn't what it used to be.
So be careful out there and resist when it matters.