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Martian Timekeeping: Synchronizing Clocks, Eccentric Orbits & Space Gum Discoveries | Space... · Space News Today

• 0:00
  Hello there. Thanks for joining us on
• 0:02
  Space Nuts, where we talk astronomy and
• 0:05
  space science and sometimes canines. And
• 0:09
  coming up, coming up in this episode,
• 0:12
  uh, does anybody really know what time
• 0:15
  it is on Mars? Well, apparently they've
• 0:18
  worked out a way and it's really
• 0:19
  fascinating and there's a good reason
• 0:21
  for it, too. Uh, we're also going to
• 0:23
  talk about the weird orbit of TOI 3884b.
• 0:29
  I was only there last week. And chewing
• 0:31
  gum on asteroids, it's a thing. That's
• 0:34
  all coming up on this episode of Space
• 0:37
  Nuts.
• 0:38
  >> 15 seconds. Guidance is internal. 10 9
• 0:42
  Ignition sequence start.
• 0:44
  >> Space Nuts.
• 0:45
  >> 5 4 3 2
• 0:48
  >> 1 2 3 4 5 5 4 3 2 1
• 0:50
  >> Space Nuts.
• 0:51
  >> Astronauts report. It feels good.
• 0:54
  >> And he's back again for more. Here is
• 0:56
  Professor Fred Watson, an astronomer at
• 0:58
  large. Hello, Fred.
• 0:59
  >> Hello, Andrew. Complete with a dog.
• 1:02
  >> Yes. Yes. Um, good old Jordy. He's uh
• 1:04
  he's great value. I I still laugh at the
• 1:07
  the way he greeted us when we went to
• 1:09
  your place a month or so back and
• 1:11
  >> Yeah.
• 1:12
  >> came tearing down the stairs.
• 1:15
  >> That's right. That's
• 1:16
  >> But that's his um
• 1:18
  >> modus operandi.
• 1:19
  >> Yes, it is. And it's not it's not
• 1:21
  aggressive. It's just um excit how are
• 1:24
  you? But it's he just goes beside
• 1:26
  himself when
• 1:28
  Yeah. Anyway, he's already had a session
• 1:30
  this morning standing at the bottom of
• 1:31
  our stairs yelling at something and I'
• 1:33
  have no idea what it was. Probably a
• 1:35
  blade of grass that got blown in the
• 1:37
  weed.
• 1:37
  >> Yeah. Yeah. That's that's the level at
• 1:40
  which he gets excited. Absolutely. Oh,
• 1:42
  blade of grass. Well,
• 1:43
  >> yeah.
• 1:44
  >> Yeah. I love it. Okay. Uh we have got uh
• 1:48
  some really interesting topics today.
• 1:50
  We've always got interesting topics, but
• 1:51
  this is a really great combination. Uh
• 1:54
  we're talking time, weird orbits, and
• 1:56
  chewing gum. Let's uh let's start on
• 1:59
  Mars. Uh and to quote the famous song,
• 2:02
  does anybody really know what time it
• 2:04
  is? Uh Mars is a bit bit of a problem
• 2:07
  when it comes to time and and so is the
• 2:09
  moon to a certain degree because time
• 2:13
  doesn't run the same way in those places
• 2:15
  as it does on Earth. And going forward
• 2:17
  that could become an issue because we're
• 2:19
  going to ultimately spend time on Mars
• 2:24
  uh wandering around growing potatoes.
• 2:26
  But um we need to be able to get the
• 2:29
  time right.
• 2:31
  We do. Um and I mean there are some s
• 2:34
  sort of basic facts before you get into
• 2:36
  the nitty-gritty which is which include
• 2:39
  the fact that the a day on Mars is 40
• 2:42
  minutes longer than a day on Earth. is
• 2:45
  uh 24 about 24 hours and 40 minutes. And
• 2:48
  of course the year on Mars is longer
• 2:50
  too. It's uh 600 and something days of
• 2:53
  our days. 687
• 2:56
  uh is the length of time a Martian year
• 2:59
  takes. So those those are they're the
• 3:01
  easy bits. They're the the givens. But
• 3:04
  if you're trying to synchronize your
• 3:07
  clocks uh between Earth and Mars and
• 3:11
  this is kind of already happening with
• 3:14
  you know with the rovers uh the fact
• 3:16
  that the the rovers are actually
• 3:17
  controlled from Earth but uh because of
• 3:20
  the time delay for signals to get to
• 3:21
  Mars they they they actually there's a
• 3:24
  degree of autonomy in all the rovers
• 3:26
  that are roving on Mars. That's not the
• 3:28
  issue at the moment. The issue is how
• 3:30
  you make your clocks on Earth uh agree
• 3:33
  with clocks on Mars. And there's two uh
• 3:36
  subtleties that come into this. And I
• 3:38
  should um credit the organization that's
• 3:40
  done the work on this, which is the
• 3:42
  United States National Institute of
• 3:44
  Standards and Technology or NIST. Uh
• 3:47
  they've um actually done detailed
• 3:50
  calculations uh about uh exactly how
• 3:54
  time varies on Mars. And so you've got
• 3:57
  two things, Andrew, when you're trying
• 3:59
  to synchronize with clocks on Earth,
• 4:00
  apart from the the time, you know, the
• 4:03
  time delay with signals going to Mars.
• 4:06
  Um, the two things that come into being
• 4:09
  both are to do with Einstein's theories
• 4:12
  of relativity. Uh, and we've talked
• 4:15
  about these infinitum. We've gone on
• 4:18
  about them a lot for a long time. uh and
• 4:21
  you from that will know that uh when you
• 4:24
  put a clock into a gravitational field
• 4:26
  it runs slower uh and that's the time
• 4:28
  dilation effect of general relativity.
• 4:31
  So we know that uh clocks on the surface
• 4:34
  of the earth run slightly slower than
• 4:37
  clocks either in space or even in the
• 4:39
  air. We've now got clocks that are so
• 4:41
  accurate, you can tell the difference
• 4:43
  between time ticking away on a jet plane
• 4:46
  at 10 kilometers high and time ticking
• 4:48
  away on the surface of the Earth. But
• 4:51
  Mars of course also has a gravitational
• 4:53
  field. It's got a gravitational pull,
• 4:55
  but it's only a sixth or thereabouts of
• 4:58
  what we have here on our planet. So that
• 5:01
  means because the gravity is lower, the
• 5:04
  clock runs faster on the surface of
• 5:07
  Mars.
• 5:08
  uh if you're on Mars, your clock is
• 5:10
  ticking away at the same rate. But to an
• 5:12
  outside observer, it runs it runs uh
• 5:16
  slower and to an observer on the Earth
• 5:18
  whose clocks are running even slower, it
• 5:21
  seems to be running faster. And the
• 5:23
  calculation has been that from the NIST,
• 5:26
  the National Institute of Standards and
• 5:28
  Technology, a clock on Mars would run
• 5:31
  477
• 5:32
  microsconds faster per day compared with
• 5:36
  a clock on the Earth. So 477 millionth
• 5:39
  of a second doesn't actually sound much
• 5:42
  except that when you've got
• 5:44
  communications
• 5:46
  uh like the 5G network, you're working
• 5:48
  to, you know, the internal clocks work
• 5:50
  to better than a millionth of a second.
• 5:53
  Um and so 477 of those millionth of a
• 5:56
  second is is yeah
• 6:00
  messy indeed. But it actually gets
• 6:02
  messier because um as you know, we've
• 6:06
  talked about this too. Uh the special
• 6:08
  theory of relativity says that um if you
• 6:12
  have a clock on a moving object and you
• 6:14
  observe it from not a moving object, uh
• 6:18
  then you will also get time dilation.
• 6:20
  That clock will look as though it's
• 6:22
  going slower. Even though it's ticking
• 6:23
  away at the same rate to the person
• 6:25
  who's on the moving object, to an
• 6:27
  outside observer who's stationary, it
• 6:29
  looks as though it's going slower. And
• 6:31
  so we've got an effect because of the
• 6:34
  motion of Mars relative to the motion of
• 6:37
  Earth. Now, Mars is in an orbit around
• 6:40
  the sun just like we are, but it's
• 6:41
  actually quite uh an eccentric orbit. In
• 6:44
  other words, it's rather elongated, more
• 6:46
  so than Earth's orbit is. And so that
• 6:48
  means it's it's it's always got a motion
• 6:51
  towards or away from the earth. And that
• 6:53
  adds another uncertainty. Uh and which
• 6:57
  can go either way because if it's coming
• 6:59
  towards us then you get a different
• 7:00
  effect. Um uh it's 226 microsconds
• 7:06
  uh the daily offset uh in the course of
• 7:10
  a Martian year. uh the difference
• 7:12
  between us and uh and there and um that
• 7:17
  uh I just said something that I want to
• 7:20
  correct there because um it's the thing
• 7:22
  is always the same sign. It doesn't
• 7:24
  matter whether it's going towards us or
• 7:26
  away from us. Uh you've still got the
• 7:28
  the offset in terms of the gravit the um
• 7:31
  relativistic time dilation. Uh which is
• 7:34
  not what I said so I'm correcting that
• 7:36
  now. Uh the um but yeah so you've got
• 7:39
  this additional 226 microsconds. So 477
• 7:43
  microsconds
• 7:44
  uh with up to 226 microsconds added to
• 7:48
  that it means you've got actually quite
• 7:50
  a messy difference in uh in time. It's
• 7:53
  almost a thousandth of a second.
• 7:55
  >> Yeah. This this relates to a time where
• 7:58
  we've got long-term uh human presence on
• 8:01
  Mars and we need to and the technology
• 8:05
  doesn't exist exist yet but we need to
• 8:06
  be able to communicate with Earth in
• 8:09
  real time. Technically, they they're
• 8:11
  going to um uh probably develop ways of
• 8:15
  setting up communication systems so that
• 8:17
  the the the radio signal issue doesn't
• 8:21
  um impinge on that communication because
• 8:24
  at the moment it's like
• 8:25
  >> what 24 minutes to send in.
• 8:28
  >> I think at maximum it can be. Yeah. And
• 8:30
  it's you're not going to be able to get
• 8:32
  away from that. But you can build that
• 8:34
  in because you know Mars's distance very
• 8:36
  precisely. Yeah.
• 8:37
  >> So you can build in a time delay. So
• 8:40
  this is more about working out a a a
• 8:44
  time system that is in sync with earth.
• 8:47
  It's not does that mean we have to
• 8:49
  invent a new kind of clock to use on
• 8:53
  Mars so that it's
• 8:55
  >> I think I think what it mean it's it's
• 8:57
  really about the you know the internal
• 8:59
  consistency of time signals on Mars. So,
• 9:03
  um, you you've got, uh, you're
• 9:07
  absolutely right. You know, the
• 9:09
  synchronization with Earth comes into
• 9:11
  into play here, but you also want to
• 9:15
  make sure that your communications
• 9:17
  actually on Mars, which will be vital,
• 9:20
  uh, are all right. And that's in a way
• 9:24
  okay because the relativistic effects
• 9:26
  don't come in there because you're all
• 9:29
  in the same gravity and you're all
• 9:31
  basically moving uh on a planet at the
• 9:33
  same speed. It's like it's like we don't
• 9:35
  have to take these effects into
• 9:37
  consideration when we're talking between
• 9:39
  ourselves on the surface of the earth.
• 9:41
  But only when you're talking up to
• 9:42
  satellites above the earth uh which we
• 9:45
  do through GPS and through
• 9:47
  communications then you need to take
• 9:48
  those minute time differences into
• 9:51
  account and in a sense that's what this
• 9:54
  is all about. So you know you've got the
• 9:56
  basic property that you can't get away
• 9:58
  from the speed of light 300,000
• 10:00
  kilometers/s. That's the speed at which
• 10:02
  radio signals go to and from Mars that
• 10:05
  you can deal with because we know the
• 10:07
  distance. But then on top of that,
• 10:09
  you've got this added tweak in in terms
• 10:12
  of synchronizing our clocks with the
• 10:14
  clocks on Mars, which makes for a very
• 10:17
  interesting, you know, a very
• 10:19
  interesting uh scenario.
• 10:20
  >> Yeah. Well, here's a dumb question. Why
• 10:22
  can't we just do what we do on Earth
• 10:25
  across the entire solar system and use
• 10:29
  Zulu time? Would Would that not work?
• 10:33
  Um um
• 10:36
  >> it's it's it just Zulu time on Earth
• 10:40
  basically means it's the same time
• 10:42
  everywhere on the planet.
• 10:43
  >> That's an expression I haven't heard
• 10:45
  before actually.
• 10:45
  >> Oh, it's it's a real thing.
• 10:47
  >> Is it
• 10:47
  >> Zulu time? Yeah, it's used by the
• 10:50
  military specifically. But
• 10:51
  >> yeah, that might be why um why I haven't
• 10:52
  heard of it.
• 10:53
  >> I'll look it up. Um cuz right now it
• 10:55
  it's set on Greenwich Men time, but um
• 10:58
  you know, Zulu time applies across the
• 11:01
  entire planet. So, but that's what we
• 11:04
  would call universal time in the world
• 11:06
  of astronomy.
• 11:06
  >> Yeah.
• 11:07
  >> So, why why can't we do that?
• 11:09
  >> Uh, well, we do. I mean, you know, we do
• 11:12
  in space, but but you that's fine. That
• 11:15
  gives you a a time base, but you've got
• 11:17
  to you've got to tweak it for all these
• 11:20
  relativistic differences.
• 11:21
  >> So, you got the time slip problem
• 11:23
  regardless of how you run the clock.
• 11:25
  >> It doesn't matter how you run the clock.
• 11:26
  Yeah. So, so on, you know, if you if
• 11:28
  you're on a one of the moons of Uranus,
• 11:31
  then you you'd have you probably still
• 11:34
  work on universal time or Zulu time. Um,
• 11:37
  and um but you but it when you
• 11:40
  synchronize that with Earth, you've got
• 11:41
  to take all these things into
• 11:42
  consideration. That's the bottom line.
• 11:44
  >> Okay, I get it. Gosh, it's so
• 11:46
  complicated. And yet, you know, Mars is
• 11:49
  as close to Earth as you're probably
• 11:51
  going to find in another planet. the uh
• 11:53
  the the daytime difference is only 40
• 11:56
  minutes. But when we actually set up uh
• 12:01
  long-term stays on Mars, that in itself
• 12:04
  is going to be a problem for humans
• 12:05
  because we are tuned to our own
• 12:08
  environment.
• 12:09
  >> Having an extra 40 minutes a day is
• 12:12
  going to throw everything into a
• 12:14
  >> into a sphere. And I think we talked
• 12:15
  about this some time ago and then the
• 12:17
  only way around it would be um you'd
• 12:20
  have to have a daytime snooze.
• 12:23
  Well, we we kind of know about this
• 12:26
  already because uh and again, we've
• 12:28
  talked about this before that the the
• 12:29
  people who actually operate Perseverance
• 12:31
  and Curiosity and all the other rovers
• 12:34
  that are on Mars um the the ones that
• 12:37
  the only other one that's operational is
• 12:39
  the Chinese one that uh they the people
• 12:42
  who operate those actually change onto a
• 12:45
  24 hours and 40minut schedule. M
• 12:48
  >> so they they're isolated in a sense from
• 12:51
  their from their community and I think
• 12:53
  they quickly quite quickly adapt. I
• 12:55
  think it's a bit rough for the first few
• 12:57
  days. It's a bit like jet lag. Um but
• 13:00
  they I think they quite quickly adapt to
• 13:01
  that longer day Martian day.
• 13:04
  >> So if you start work at 9:00 on a
• 13:06
  Monday, you start at 9:40 on Tuesday. Is
• 13:08
  that
• 13:08
  >> Yeah, that's right.
• 13:10
  >> Follow me. By by the end of the week,
• 13:12
  you
• 13:13
  >> Yeah. So um actually it's the other way
• 13:15
  around, isn't it? You'd
• 13:16
  >> Yeah. Would it be? Yeah, you'd have to
• 13:18
  start earlier
• 13:19
  >> by by the by Monday. Well,
• 13:21
  >> see, it's the same as trying to figure
• 13:23
  out daylight saving, isn't it? Just am I
• 13:25
  going to be early or late?
• 13:28
  >> Oh, imagine trying to do that every day.
• 13:30
  Gosh. No, it's fascinating. And uh so
• 13:33
  yeah, the and the bottom line is that
• 13:35
  this this team has um has more or less
• 13:39
  figured it all out and worked out what
• 13:41
  we have to do to make the time right
• 13:43
  when we get to Mars.
• 13:45
  >> You're right. And you you were right
• 13:46
  actually you would start so to everybody
• 13:49
  else your day you'd be starting 40
• 13:52
  minutes late Tuesday.
• 13:54
  >> Um uh but you're still starting at
• 13:58
  midnight or you know whatever time you
• 14:00
  you you started 9:00 in fact
• 14:04
  >> 9:00 Martian time.
• 14:06
  >> Yeah. Yeah. It's just a bit crazy isn't
• 14:08
  it? But um yeah it's a fascinating
• 14:10
  story. Or if you'd like to read about
• 14:11
  it, it's on the website Scitec Daily, or
• 14:14
  you can read the paper that's been
• 14:16
  published in the Astronomical Journal.
• 14:19
  This is Space Nuts with Andrew Dunley
• 14:21
  and Professor Fred Watson.
• 14:25
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  notes.
• 16:01
  >> And I feel
• 16:02
  >> space nuts.
• 16:03
  >> All right, we're um going to uh focus on
• 16:06
  a target of interest. Now, I only just
• 16:09
  figured out what that means. TOI 3884b.
• 16:13
  This is a planet orbiting a star. And at
• 16:16
  this point in time, they've only found
• 16:18
  this one planet. But the weird thing is
• 16:21
  its orbit is just so out of kilter with
• 16:24
  what we would consider normal and they
• 16:27
  don't know why.
• 16:28
  >> They don't. So you're absolutely right.
• 16:31
  We're talking about an object by the
• 16:33
  name of TI384B.
• 16:36
  Um
• 16:38
  I was just talking to uh a radio
• 16:40
  presenter uh in uh actually in Coffs
• 16:44
  Harour in uh uh northern uh what's it
• 16:47
  called? The Mid North Coast.
• 16:48
  >> Mid North Coast. Yeah.
• 16:49
  >> New South Wales. Um about this very
• 16:52
  topic. Uh and he wants to rename it the
• 16:55
  hula hoop.
• 16:56
  >> That's a good idea.
• 16:57
  >> Yeah. Because um as he said um with hula
• 17:01
  hoops, the problem is always keeping the
• 17:03
  hula hoop at the same angle to your
• 17:05
  waistline.
• 17:06
  Uh he said it tends to wander off and
• 17:08
  that's exactly what's happened with this
• 17:10
  planet. So um Luke Ryan, this is one for
• 17:12
  you.
• 17:13
  >> Cool.
• 17:14
  >> It's the hula hoop the hula hoop planet.
• 17:17
  Um so what's the story? Well, this is a
• 17:19
  planet going around a red dwarf star.
• 17:22
  Uh, it's one of the is it 7,000 odd now?
• 17:24
  Um, exoplanets that we know about. Uh,
• 17:27
  it's at a distance of something like
• 17:31
  130 light years from Earth. Uh, this red
• 17:35
  dwarf is pretty un um, you know, un
• 17:40
  unspectacular
• 17:41
  in that it's just a typical red dwarf
• 17:44
  star, but it's got uh, spots on it. Now,
• 17:48
  a lot of stars we know have spots on it.
• 17:50
  And actually here in Australia, we've
• 17:51
  got a group who I work with quite often
• 17:54
  up in the University of Southern
• 17:56
  Queensland whose specialtity is star
• 17:58
  spots and understanding how we can learn
• 18:00
  about them. And they do they they some
• 18:03
  you know I've seen some of the papers
• 18:04
  that they've written and sometimes these
• 18:06
  star spots uh you know they're almost a
• 18:09
  a quarter of the size of the disc of the
• 18:11
  star itself unlike the sunspots that we
• 18:14
  see which are yes bigger than earth many
• 18:16
  of them but the earth's 100 times
• 18:18
  smaller than the sun. So our sunspots
• 18:20
  are quite tiny compared with some of the
• 18:23
  star spots that we know exist on other
• 18:25
  stars. And this particular uh red dwarf
• 18:28
  has at least one big spot uh which are
• 18:31
  cool. They're cooler than uh the rest of
• 18:34
  the atmosphere. They're cool spots and
• 18:35
  that's why they look darker. Uh and it's
• 18:38
  because of that even though you can't
• 18:40
  see the spot directly, what you can see
• 18:42
  is the way the light from that star
• 18:45
  changes as the star rotates. Uh bringing
• 18:49
  the spot towards us and then on the
• 18:51
  other side of the star. Uh and when the
• 18:53
  spot's towards us, it's a little bit
• 18:54
  dimmer. And so what they've done is um
• 18:58
  uh these scientists uh and I should
• 19:00
  acknowledge uh where they are. I'll come
• 19:02
  to that in a minute. Uh they they have
• 19:06
  uh figured out uh first of all from that
• 19:10
  spot uh rotation uh they figured out
• 19:13
  that this planet sorry this star itself
• 19:17
  rotates every 11 days uh which is uh of
• 19:22
  course um shorter than the sun. is kind
• 19:25
  of half the the sun's rotation. But that
• 19:27
  11 days is the key uh to understanding
• 19:31
  how the star itself rotates. Now enter
• 19:34
  the planet into this. The planet itself
• 19:38
  goes round in something like 4 days. Uh
• 19:41
  so it sort of whizzes around the parent
• 19:43
  star. Um but what the the scientists
• 19:47
  have done is used some very very careful
• 19:51
  measurements and a phenomenon which is
• 19:54
  called the Rosita McGloin effect uh
• 19:57
  which is to do with the way um the uh
• 20:02
  appearance of a stars spectrum changes
• 20:05
  as a planet rotates around the star or
• 20:09
  evolves around the star and using that
• 20:12
  effect they have um basically discovered
• 20:17
  that this planet orbits the star at an
• 20:21
  angle of 62°
• 20:25
  to the stars equator.
• 20:28
  Um and and contrast that with the solar
• 20:30
  system where the planets all orbit more
• 20:32
  or less in the same plane. Mercury is
• 20:34
  the outlier in that it's tilted. Uh but
• 20:38
  uh the that plane is more or less the
• 20:41
  same as the as the equator of the sun.
• 20:44
  >> Yeah. If you if you compare it to Earth,
• 20:47
  uh that that planet's 40° off. We're
• 20:50
  23.44 and they're 60 whatever you said.
• 20:53
  Uh that's a heck of a tilt.
• 20:55
  >> No, it's a different tilt you're talking
• 20:57
  about there.
• 20:59
  >> Uh that's the tilt of the Earth's
• 21:00
  >> Oh, that's the axis.
• 21:01
  >> Rotation axis. Yeah.
• 21:03
  >> Right. Right. But the tilt of the
• 21:05
  earth's orbit to the sun uh to the sun's
• 21:08
  equator is effectively zero.
• 21:10
  >> Right. Gotcha.
• 21:11
  >> As as most of the planets are with the
• 21:13
  exception.
• 21:14
  >> So it's not the tilt. It's the actual
• 21:15
  orbit itself is
• 21:16
  >> Yep. That's right. It's the orbit
• 21:18
  itself.
• 21:18
  >> That's even we not not the rotation of
• 21:20
  the planet. That's right. Good to good
• 21:22
  to clarify that. Thanks Andrew. Um so
• 21:25
  yeah and that's peculiar because you
• 21:27
  know we we conventionally understand
• 21:29
  that the way planets form is in a in a
• 21:33
  um what we call a a protolanetary disc
• 21:36
  which surrounds the infant star and
• 21:39
  because this that both the star and the
• 21:41
  planets have come from a collapsing
• 21:43
  cloud of dust and gas which is itself
• 21:46
  rotating and it's that sort of
• 21:47
  fossilized rotation that we've uh that
• 21:50
  we see in the rotation of the planets or
• 21:52
  the revolution of the planets around the
• 21:54
  sun and the rotation of the sun and
• 21:56
  they're all in the same plane. This
• 21:58
  one's not. So, how has that happened?
• 22:01
  >> And the the the suggestion is
• 22:04
  >> Oh, I know. I know.
• 22:06
  >> Theo did it.
• 22:08
  >> Well, yeah, that's it could be a the
• 22:11
  effect, something that's actually
• 22:13
  collided
• 22:15
  >> with this object. But there's apparently
• 22:17
  um as you pointed out right at the
• 22:19
  beginning, there's no there there isn't
• 22:21
  another there isn't another there's no
• 22:24
  other objects known to be in orbit
• 22:27
  around this star. It seems to be a
• 22:29
  single planet. That's not to say that
• 22:31
  there wasn't something that collided
• 22:32
  with it and moved its orbit. But but
• 22:35
  even, you know, something like Thea
• 22:37
  hitting the Earth, which is how we think
• 22:38
  the moon was formed, that didn't push
• 22:40
  the Earth out of its orbit and tilt the
• 22:42
  orbit. It's a very peculiar effect. I
• 22:45
  mean, it may be that this star has had
• 22:48
  an interaction gravitationally at some
• 22:50
  time in the past and shifted shifted the
• 22:53
  orbit of the planet by the gravitational
• 22:56
  inter interference of something else
• 22:58
  going past. But that's, you know, that's
• 23:01
  just conjecture. Uh, and the bottom line
• 23:04
  is for a a single planet going around a
• 23:06
  star, this is the most peculiar one
• 23:09
  we've ever found. It's because of this
• 23:11
  tilt in its orbit. And that's that's
• 23:13
  what we keep seeing. Every time we find
• 23:15
  something new in another solar system,
• 23:18
  we find not every time, but we are
• 23:21
  starting to find something new and
• 23:23
  different and unexplainable and um yeah,
• 23:27
  nothing's normal really when it comes to
• 23:29
  all these new discoveries.
• 23:31
  >> That's correct. That's right. Uh it's,
• 23:34
  you know, it's just a it's a it's a
• 23:37
  universe out there that's full of
• 23:39
  diversity. That's probably the best way
• 23:41
  to put it.
• 23:42
  >> Yeah. Um and quite a strange place. Do
• 23:45
  we know what kind of planet it is?
• 23:48
  >> Uh yeah, it's a it's a super Earth. I
• 23:50
  think it's got a mass of 39 Earths. So
• 23:52
  it's um something less than Jupiter. Uh
• 23:56
  but it but I think it's um not as big
• 23:58
  not as big in diameter as Jupiter is. I
• 24:00
  think that's right. But you know, it
• 24:02
  probably means it's a hot Jupiter
• 24:04
  basically or a hot subjupiter. Perhaps
• 24:05
  that's the best way to put it.
• 24:07
  >> Right. Okay. Well, uh, it's another
• 24:09
  interesting find. Um, I'm sure they'll
• 24:12
  keep looking at it to try and figure out
• 24:14
  how it ended up where it is and why. Um,
• 24:18
  but yeah, it sounds log logic. If you
• 24:21
  tear it all down, you go with the most
• 24:23
  obvious answer, it's probably been hit
• 24:26
  by something. Probably Steve Smith's
• 24:28
  cricket bat would be my theory.
• 24:32
  >> I think you've probably just baffled uh
• 24:34
  twothirds of our listeners. is probably
• 24:36
  look up Steve Smith cricketer and you'll
• 24:39
  know what I'm talking about. Um, been
• 24:41
  having a great season. Absolutely
• 24:44
  wonderful season. But I I won't gloat
• 24:46
  because I know we're heard in England
• 24:48
  and I I don't want to, you know, it's
• 24:50
  not over yet. Um, so if you would like
• 24:53
  to read up on that story, uh, you can do
• 24:55
  so at the daily galaxy.com website or
• 24:58
  you can read the paper in the
• 25:01
  astronomical journal, I think it is. Let
• 25:03
  me just double check that. Yes,
• 25:05
  >> the astronomical journal.
• 25:06
  >> Yeah,
• 25:07
  >> this is Space Nuts with Andrew Dunley
• 25:09
  and Professor Fred Watson.
• 25:12
  >> Now, let's take a break from the show to
• 25:14
  tell you about our sponsor, NordVPN.
• 25:16
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• 26:37
  >> You're sir here.
• 26:39
  >> Spacenuts. Our last story is about one
• 26:43
  of my favorite things and that is
• 26:45
  chewing gum. Uh, I grew up on that
• 26:47
  stuff. I didn't eat food. I just chewed
• 26:48
  gum
• 26:50
  at infin item. I I I used to stick it on
• 26:54
  the bed post when I went to sleep and
• 26:56
  start again as soon as I woke up. I just
• 26:58
  I was addicted to the stuff, especially
• 27:00
  the stuff we had called Big Charlie. I
• 27:02
  don't know if anyone remembers Big
• 27:04
  Charlie, but it came in a stick about
• 27:06
  one foot long
• 27:08
  and good.
• 27:09
  >> It was amazing. Anyway, can't find that
• 27:12
  anymore. Um, the point I'm trying to
• 27:15
  make is that this is all about a
• 27:17
  discovery that's been made on the
• 27:19
  samples of the Beno Bennu asteroid that
• 27:22
  were returned to Earth in the deserts of
• 27:25
  Utah a couple of years ago and they've
• 27:27
  been sort of looking at it ever since
• 27:29
  and they have found something unusual.
• 27:33
  It's not chewing gum, but it is like
• 27:34
  chewing gum because it's um it's a it's
• 27:38
  a kind of a polymer.
• 27:41
  Yeah, I'm still grappling with you and
• 27:43
  your um your chewing gum on the on the
• 27:46
  bed post. Um if I remember rightly, it
• 27:48
  was Lonnie Donnigan who in the 1950s had
• 27:52
  a big hit with does your chewing gum
• 27:54
  lose its flavor in the bed post
• 27:56
  overnight?
• 27:57
  >> The answer is yes. Um
• 28:00
  >> yeah.
• 28:01
  >> So straight from there to Asteroid Benu.
• 28:06
  Um I think it was Lonnie Donigan anyway.
• 28:09
  Uh yeah, I can't remember, but I know
• 28:11
  >> great skiffl artist of the 1950s.
• 28:14
  Um he
• 28:16
  >> there's a photo of Big Charlie. I don't
• 28:19
  know if you can see that. No, you can't.
• 28:20
  >> I can't. No, it's just disappearing cuz
• 28:22
  you all I can see now is the moon.
• 28:24
  >> Yeah.
• 28:25
  >> Anyway,
• 28:26
  >> a big Charlie.
• 28:31
  >> Yeah, it was a monster packeted like you
• 28:34
  know, you couldn't put it in your
• 28:36
  pocket. you poking my ear.
• 28:42
  >> Well, I have to say uh it's something
• 28:45
  not at all like that that we're talking
• 28:48
  about with asteroid Bennu because all
• 28:50
  these observations have made been made
• 28:52
  with an electron microscope which you
• 28:54
  probably didn't need for a big Charlie.
• 28:57
  Um but the what what's it all about?
• 29:00
  It's uh what's been found in the dust uh
• 29:06
  which was returned by the Osiris Rex
• 29:08
  spacecraft uh I think in 2023 if I
• 29:12
  remember rightly samples from asteroid
• 29:14
  Bennu. It's a NASA project. Um what has
• 29:17
  been found in there is what the
• 29:19
  scientists call nitrogenrich polymer
• 29:22
  sheets.
• 29:24
  Uh which you and I would call gum. Uh
• 29:27
  it's a polymer basically. Uh, and
• 29:30
  polymers are are materials where you've
• 29:33
  got these long chains of molecules that
• 29:36
  give them that sort of flexible and
• 29:38
  sticky sticky flavor or not flavor but
• 29:42
  uh demeanor, let me put it that way. Uh,
• 29:45
  so it's yeah, it's got um it's got uh
• 29:49
  these longchain molecules on it and so
• 29:52
  the the scientists are calling it space
• 29:54
  gum. Uh it's not gum as we would know
• 29:57
  it, but what they've done is they've um
• 29:59
  they've found uh sort of almost like
• 30:02
  shards of this stuff within the dust
• 30:05
  samples from Bennu. And in order to
• 30:09
  analyze it, they've actually had to coat
• 30:11
  it with a a layer of uh I think it's
• 30:15
  platinum um uh that they've they've
• 30:19
  reinforced it with so that they can take
• 30:21
  samples from it uh with a tungsten micro
• 30:25
  needle. Uh and you see pictures of all
• 30:27
  this stuff going on on the web. Universe
• 30:29
  Today's got a nice story about it. Um
• 30:32
  and uh then with the micro needle then
• 30:36
  you can take the samples and you know
• 30:38
  analyze them with all the various pieces
• 30:40
  of kit that we we use to make these
• 30:43
  analyses. Uh and it turns out yeah
• 30:46
  there's um there's gum there. Uh I think
• 30:48
  the puzzle is how it got there. uh
• 30:52
  because well in let me just um since
• 30:56
  we're mentioning universe today and the
• 30:59
  lovely article uh by Andy Thomas Stwick
• 31:02
  I think is his name might not be how you
• 31:04
  pronounce it but uh what uh he says is
• 31:07
  one question remains one question
• 31:09
  remains how exactly did the space gum
• 31:12
  survive on Bennu for so long we know
• 31:14
  that Bennu was part of a larger asteroid
• 31:16
  that had hydrothermal vents
• 31:19
  meaning the asteroid itself was
• 31:20
  subjected to water. Complex organic
• 31:23
  molecules like the space gum usually
• 31:26
  either dissolve or break up when
• 31:28
  subjected to hot water. So, how had this
• 31:31
  particular sample uh avoided that fate?
• 31:34
  And what they're saying then is that
• 31:37
  perhaps the sample might have formed uh
• 31:42
  basically during a phase when Bennu was
• 31:46
  cold before it actually got hot enough
• 31:48
  for nuclear processes to heat it up. Um
• 31:51
  and they're saying that that these
• 31:53
  samples actually date from that time. Uh
• 31:56
  and that basically um uh what they say
• 31:59
  is uh by the time radioactive elements
• 32:02
  inside the asteroid and this again is
• 32:05
  quoted from Universe Today. By the time
• 32:07
  the radioactive elements inside the
• 32:09
  asteroid had heated up enough to create
• 32:11
  the water, the plastic in inverted
• 32:13
  commas, sheets of polymer were already
• 32:15
  formed and were in fact water resistant,
• 32:18
  thereby getting trapped by the rocks on
• 32:20
  the asteroid surface where they were
• 32:22
  eventually picked up by an intrepid
• 32:24
  space probe, namely uh a Sirius Rex. So
• 32:28
  yeah, and and here's the really
• 32:30
  interesting bit. Um we've got other
• 32:32
  asteroid samples, as you know, Andrew,
• 32:35
  from
• 32:36
  >> Yes. uh the two Japanese spacecraft that
• 32:38
  have brought back asteroid samples. Um
• 32:41
  and neither of those have polymers in
• 32:44
  them.
• 32:45
  >> Uh so uh Bennu is different. It's a
• 32:48
  different uh body. It's still a rubble
• 32:51
  pile asteroid as far as we know, but
• 32:54
  different in its chemical makeup.
• 32:55
  >> So I suppose that throws up questions
• 32:57
  about asteroid formation and why this is
• 33:01
  different or is it is it normal and the
• 33:03
  other two were different? You don't
• 33:05
  know, do you? Yeah, that's right. That's
• 33:06
  the thing. Yes.
• 33:08
  >> Yeah. Very interesting indeed. If you'd
• 33:10
  like to read about it, universetoday.com
• 33:13
  has that great article that uh Fred was
• 33:15
  talking about and uh yeah, we'll we'll
• 33:18
  probably learn more and more as they
• 33:19
  keep going through those samples from
• 33:21
  Benu. Um Fred, we're uh we're all done.
• 33:25
  Thank you so much. That was quick.
• 33:27
  >> It was, wasn't it? Um and they were they
• 33:30
  were quite complex stories as well.
• 33:33
  >> Yeah. probably why we didn't spend much
• 33:34
  time on them.
• 33:36
  >> Our brains neither of us understands
• 33:38
  them either.
• 33:40
  >> Yeah. All right. Thanks, Fred. We'll
• 33:42
  catch you shortly um for our final
• 33:45
  program of the year officially. So,
• 33:48
  we'll we'll see you then. Thanks, Fred.
• 33:50
  >> Sounds great. Well done, Andrew.
• 33:52
  >> And um thanks to Hugh in the studio who
• 33:54
  couldn't be with us today because of a
• 33:56
  weird uh object that uh he's gone to see
• 33:59
  the doctor about. Uh, and don't forget
• 34:01
  to visit us online and uh, you can do
• 34:04
  that at spacenutspodcast.com or
• 34:06
  spacenuts.io
• 34:09
  and uh, check it all out there. You can
• 34:11
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• 34:14
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• 34:16
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• 34:18
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• 34:19
  Or you can send questions in via the AMA
• 34:22
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• 34:24
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• 34:26
  up. Don't forget to visit the Space Nuts
• 34:28
  shop. Uh, it's all at spaceodcast.com.
• 34:32
  And from me, Andrew Dunley, thanks for
• 34:34
  your company. We will see you again on
• 34:36
  the next episode real soon.
• 34:38
  >> Space, you've been listening to the
• 34:40
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• 34:43
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