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Transcript

Hulk Hogan Was America's Greatest Psyop | Under the Docs Documentary Review · Under the Docs

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Cocaine and a hooker and then be like, heydet your vidamins.
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: Under the docks, Yeah, under the docks, very bride your lucks.
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: Could they origin the shots the dogs under the docks?
• 0:24
  Speaker 3: Undon the ducks, Yeah, undon the docks, under the docks.
• 0:51
  Speaker 4: Oho made this is Under the Docks with Paranoid American
• 0:54
  Speaker 4: and Uncle Sean charting through the treacherous ways of documentaries
• 0:57
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  Speaker 1: Got a doc you want us to review?
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  Speaker 4: to like subscribe and share, share the show.
• 1:12
  Speaker 5: And say your prayers and eat your vitamins.
• 1:13
  Speaker 4: Brother, yeah, brother, Today we're doing the film the one
• 1:19
  Speaker 4: of the only Hulk Hogan Real American twenty twenty sixth
• 1:24
  Speaker 4: film just hot off the presses new this year. Well,
• 1:28
  Speaker 4: for us, it was what didn't we watch it the
• 1:31
  Speaker 4: second day or third day after it came out.
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: I didn't realize it was a series at first.
• 1:35
  Speaker 4: I'm starting to come to the realization the streaming services
• 1:38
  Speaker 4: are like, let's do series, not like a one whole documentary,
• 1:43
  Speaker 4: and it's a produced by our boy, Right, Warner Hershog
• 1:49
  Speaker 4: is a big part of this, Like he turns out
• 1:53
  Speaker 4: is a huge wrestling fan, which I didn't even know
• 1:55
  Speaker 4: that like about him, Like he's like idolizes this wrestling.
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: I didn't know that that was not anywhere near.
• 2:03
  Speaker 4: You mentioned it to me, I didn't even know because
• 2:04
  Speaker 4: I was like, oh, yeah, I've seen the whole thing.
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: You're like, hey, do you.
• 2:06
  Speaker 4: Know Werner's like part of it, And I'm like oh,
• 2:09
  Speaker 4: And then like to see that he's like just giant,
• 2:11
  Speaker 4: like hooke a maniac is just crazy to me.
• 2:15
  Speaker 5: He's like I don't even want to know his real
• 2:16
  Speaker 5: name though, And on that note, I thought that it
• 2:20
  Speaker 5: was interesting that as soon as I started watching it,
• 2:23
  Speaker 5: I forgot that Werner Herzog had anything to do with
• 2:26
  Speaker 5: it until the very end of the very last episode
• 2:29
  Speaker 5: and then he's on camera, and then I was like, oh,
• 2:31
  Speaker 5: that's right, he was involved with this. So you don't
• 2:34
  Speaker 5: hear his trademark voice, you don't see him on camera,
• 2:37
  Speaker 5: you don't really see any traces him in directly in
• 2:40
  Speaker 5: the entire series except for that their take, like they
• 2:44
  Speaker 5: actually make it really compelling the watch because sometimes when
• 2:47
  Speaker 5: you see a five or a six part Netflix series.
• 2:51
  Speaker 5: One of my first thoughts is this couldn't have been
• 2:53
  Speaker 5: an hour and a half maybe an hour and forty
• 2:56
  Speaker 5: minutes documentary in this case, no, Like it actually legitimately
• 3:02
  Speaker 5: makes sense that it's multiple, you know, multiple parts that
• 3:04
  Speaker 5: it's like, what is it five or six different episodes?
• 3:07
  Speaker 5: Like I wouldn't have really cut too much from this man,
• 3:10
  Speaker 5: because each one is like a standalone documentary that all
• 3:13
  Speaker 5: work as a cohesive whole, and.
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: It's a true TV documentary.
• 3:17
  Speaker 4: But like on the next it kind of reminded me
• 3:20
  Speaker 4: a little bit like The Last Dance. When we watched
• 3:22
  Speaker 4: The Last Dance, I was kind of like, oh man,
• 3:25
  Speaker 4: this is a lot of episodes. But it it hooks
• 3:27
  Speaker 4: you with the nostalgia and then it gets it sprinkles
• 3:30
  Speaker 4: in some facts. It doesn't do too much, but it
• 3:33
  Speaker 4: gives enough nostalgia where you're like, yeah, I remember that,
• 3:36
  Speaker 4: like you know what I mean, like and it sucks
• 3:38
  Speaker 4: you in. So I think they did a good job
• 3:39
  Speaker 4: on this as well.
• 3:41
  Speaker 5: Do you think that it's possible to watch either Last
• 3:44
  Speaker 5: Dance or I guess this Hulk Hogan series If you
• 3:47
  Speaker 5: don't know about Hulk or didn't care about Hulk or like,
• 3:50
  Speaker 5: you know, you were born after he had already retired
• 3:53
  Speaker 5: or something, or if you're watching this in ten years
• 3:55
  Speaker 5: and you were born after he died, does it hook you?
• 3:58
  Speaker 5: Is there is there a reason you would sit down
• 4:00
  Speaker 5: and watch all five or six of these episodes all
• 4:03
  Speaker 5: got more in this episode of Under the Dogs.
• 4:15
  Speaker 4: Plotting the course this Obviously, the rise and Fall of
• 4:20
  Speaker 4: Hulk Hogan are better known as Terry bo Balaya.
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: I think it's how you say it, Balaya. There you go.
• 4:26
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I don't even say his name, just call him
• 4:27
  Speaker 5: Hulk Hogan.
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: Come on, yeah, fab Yeah you got a k favie.
• 4:33
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: I think this whole thing was pretty cool in general.
• 4:38
  Speaker 4: I think even to your earlier point that like, even
• 4:42
  Speaker 4: if you don't care about wrestling, even if you don't
• 4:44
  Speaker 4: know who Hulk Hogan is, I think it will still
• 4:47
  Speaker 4: suck you in because you see a peek into what
• 4:50
  Speaker 4: life was like in that early eighties, late seventies, the nineties.
• 4:54
  Speaker 4: It brings you to this whole connection of like, oh, look.
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: This was popular.
• 5:01
  Speaker 4: I've heard if you've just heard of it, right, like
• 5:03
  Speaker 4: obviously like someone's parents. I didn't realize how famous Hulk
• 5:07
  Speaker 4: Hogan was like I did and I didn't, right, Like,
• 5:10
  Speaker 4: but watching this you're like, this guy was a megastar.
• 5:13
  Speaker 4: He's probably the most famous wrestler. He says that, and
• 5:15
  Speaker 4: I know he lies a lot, but I'm going to
• 5:17
  Speaker 4: agree with him. He is the most famous wrestler.
• 5:20
  Speaker 5: Well, and I guess too. When you're like five or
• 5:23
  Speaker 5: six years old, you don't really know how much more
• 5:27
  Speaker 5: famous Hulk Cogan is than like the bully at school
• 5:31
  Speaker 5: or just like your favorite you know, new kids on
• 5:33
  Speaker 5: the block or something. If if it's just like the
• 5:35
  Speaker 5: thing that you see. So as you get older and
• 5:37
  Speaker 5: you realize, and especially as you watch this series in retrospect,
• 5:42
  Speaker 5: it was like, damn, this dude was internationally known and
• 5:45
  Speaker 5: he did sort of define what people thought of when
• 5:48
  Speaker 5: you said like America or just hell yeah, brother, he
• 5:51
  Speaker 5: just like said that. The fact that that would conjure
• 5:54
  Speaker 5: up such a very specific image and to learn that
• 5:57
  Speaker 5: it was like heavily curated, like you know, like everything
• 6:00
  Speaker 5: was focused on a character that does that role and
• 6:04
  Speaker 5: like acts that part, which actually makes it even more
• 6:08
  Speaker 5: impressive to me.
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: And the way they build it up is right.
• 6:12
  Speaker 4: They briefly go over what Vince and Vince's father kind
• 6:15
  Speaker 4: of did to kind of put all the wrestling into
• 6:19
  Speaker 4: one building, like it used to be broken up into regions,
• 6:24
  Speaker 4: and from being broken up to regions, it's now he's like,
• 6:27
  Speaker 4: I'm gonna take all these stars. So you said, never
• 6:29
  Speaker 4: if you wrestled in Minnesota or the Midwest, you didn't
• 6:32
  Speaker 4: go down south.
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: You didn't. You just didn't do it unless you jump
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: ship completely.
• 6:37
  Speaker 4: But it was like, these are our wrestlers, we're developing them,
• 6:40
  Speaker 4: these are the characters we're making. And Vince mcdaan was like,
• 6:43
  Speaker 4: I like that what you're doing with those guys. I'm
• 6:46
  Speaker 4: gonna take them and pay them more. And that's kind
• 6:48
  Speaker 4: of how Hogan gets introduced because he talks about like wrestling.
• 6:52
  Speaker 4: He was a big like I guess, into a band
• 6:54
  Speaker 4: and a bass player and he was supposedly touring and
• 6:58
  Speaker 4: doing all this stuff and it don't sound like it
• 7:00
  Speaker 4: was going that great where you're like, all right, I'll
• 7:02
  Speaker 4: get into wrestling. But he's a big dude, so somebody
• 7:04
  Speaker 4: kind of convinces him to get into this and they
• 7:07
  Speaker 4: right away develop him and people are using him like, oh,
• 7:11
  Speaker 4: this guy's being because at that time he's the bad guy.
• 7:13
  Speaker 4: If you don't know, there's heels which are bad guys,
• 7:17
  Speaker 4: and babyfaces, which are good guys. So the whole concept
• 7:20
  Speaker 4: of wrestling is to orchestrate the good guy versus the
• 7:23
  Speaker 4: bad guy. Hence, while we use it in politics a lot,
• 7:26
  Speaker 4: while that professional wrestling in politics go hand in hand.
• 7:29
  Speaker 4: And with Hok Hogan coming through with all this, he
• 7:33
  Speaker 4: now is this bad guy. He starts out as the
• 7:35
  Speaker 4: bad guy because he's going to be mean to the
• 7:39
  Speaker 4: crowd and cheat and do whatever it takes, and he's
• 7:42
  Speaker 4: this big bulky but now that he gets into the WF,
• 7:45
  Speaker 4: his dad kind of sees a different version of him.
• 7:48
  Speaker 4: That he gets the name Hulk Hok Hogan, which is
• 7:51
  Speaker 4: crazy because like, I don't know where the Hogan park come.
• 7:54
  Speaker 4: I get the Hulk right, like he's the incredible Hoak,
• 7:56
  Speaker 4: and I think it's Hogan, like from the Hogan heroes.
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: Like I'm not sure that last part comes.
• 8:01
  Speaker 5: I don't described that. It just sounded good. I mean,
• 8:04
  Speaker 5: and sometimes you can't just discount that someone just hey,
• 8:07
  Speaker 5: it has a nice ring to it and then it
• 8:08
  Speaker 5: just works.
• 8:10
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that it does grow good man, That's perfect analogy
• 8:14
  Speaker 4: of like where you played.
• 8:15
  Speaker 5: He's Italian, right, like he he's Italian, but he's also
• 8:19
  Speaker 5: like a Florida boy with a little bit of a
• 8:21
  Speaker 5: Southern geral if he leans into it, but really he's
• 8:24
  Speaker 5: just like some Florida boy. So to end up being
• 8:27
  Speaker 5: this like all American whole Cogan ye brother character, it's
• 8:31
  Speaker 5: already completely different than like, like you were mentioned, when
• 8:35
  Speaker 5: he started out, that wasn't his character. He was a
• 8:37
  Speaker 5: bad guy and he was just kind of like a brute.
• 8:39
  Speaker 5: He didn't have a personality or a character really like
• 8:43
  Speaker 5: refined yet. And the whole Cogan character as the good
• 8:47
  Speaker 5: guy babyface, it was supposed to be like this all
• 8:50
  Speaker 5: American Americana sort of thing. So that was that was
• 8:54
  Speaker 5: the first time. But they go back in a really
• 8:56
  Speaker 5: interesting way towards the end of this. Like he started
• 8:59
  Speaker 5: as a heel, He started as a bad guy, and
• 9:02
  Speaker 5: it just it didn't work to turn him into this
• 9:04
  Speaker 5: huge brand. It was the good guy thing, and it
• 9:07
  Speaker 5: was a good guy combined with things that were happening politically,
• 9:11
  Speaker 5: which I think is the other good thing that this
• 9:13
  Speaker 5: documentary does is that it doesn't beat you over the
• 9:16
  Speaker 5: head with like and we're talking about politics, you know
• 9:19
  Speaker 5: what I mean, but the way that they show how
• 9:22
  Speaker 5: all this works, and that how they're just experimenting. Oh,
• 9:25
  Speaker 5: let me say this thing, let me yell back at
• 9:27
  Speaker 5: the crowd, let me do something they wouldn't expect me
• 9:30
  Speaker 5: to do. Oh man, they're booing me, they're throwing stuff
• 9:33
  Speaker 5: at me. Okay, that means it's working. Let me lean
• 9:34
  Speaker 5: into this a little bit more to see them explain
• 9:37
  Speaker 5: the thought process behind coming up with these characters and
• 9:40
  Speaker 5: if they're going to be good or bad. That was
• 9:42
  Speaker 5: like one of the coolest parts about seeing just and
• 9:45
  Speaker 5: this is just in the first episode.
• 9:47
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and how they build up they they really they
• 9:49
  Speaker 4: do peel the curtain back right a little bit.
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: I think that's how everybody's doing things like it.
• 9:54
  Speaker 4: Everybody knows that the secrets are out there and they inner,
• 9:56
  Speaker 4: so I think people are trying to run like, hey,
• 9:58
  Speaker 4: we'll tell you first right before you're gonna.
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: If we're anybody's gonna get views off this, it's gonna
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: be us.
• 10:03
  Speaker 4: And they build up how they formulate this, like it's
• 10:06
  Speaker 4: not just like they build up a good guy and
• 10:09
  Speaker 4: bad guy. Their whole point is to get you to
• 10:11
  Speaker 4: have an emotional response, whether it be good they don't
• 10:14
  Speaker 4: care if you're booing or if you're cheering. The part
• 10:16
  Speaker 4: that they don't they do go whoa if no one's
• 10:19
  Speaker 4: saying anything, because that means they're not paying attention to you.
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: You're not making them feel an emotion.
• 10:23
  Speaker 4: So when you watch or kind of like understand what's
• 10:26
  Speaker 4: going on in this everything they're doing is trying to
• 10:28
  Speaker 4: get an emotion out of you. And as to your point,
• 10:31
  Speaker 4: I think it was WrestleMania one where they're like, Okay,
• 10:34
  Speaker 4: we're gonna build this is where the epitome when he
• 10:36
  Speaker 4: come he gets into a little bit of trouble with
• 10:39
  Speaker 4: evincing them because he wants to do the Rocky movie.
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure if this was before WrestleMania one or after.
• 10:44
  Speaker 4: I know it was like part of that little like
• 10:47
  Speaker 4: green area, gray area where he.
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: Was like about like he was still a big star
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: and attracting.
• 10:53
  Speaker 4: But it wasn't until he became the Hoaxter and then
• 10:56
  Speaker 4: he started developing this whole like.
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: Each your Vieian his brother, be good to your mom,
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: you know, USA.
• 11:04
  Speaker 4: Because Vince had seen what was going on in the
• 11:06
  Speaker 4: world and he saw this heavy patriotism going on with
• 11:09
  Speaker 4: after the Cold War, and when you got like the
• 11:12
  Speaker 4: Iran hostage situation, they go, hmm, we got something here,
• 11:16
  Speaker 4: and then they go they go, we're gonna pin huk
• 11:18
  Speaker 4: Hogan against Iron Cheks. So they get Iron Chic to
• 11:22
  Speaker 4: win the title from Bob Becklan, who was Vince McMahon's
• 11:26
  Speaker 4: dad's horse that he was backing, and Vince was taking
• 11:29
  Speaker 4: the red. The one thing they showed through this and
• 11:32
  Speaker 4: a lot of the stuff that we're gonna be watching
• 11:34
  Speaker 4: the next couple episodes is that they show how somebody
• 11:38
  Speaker 4: could take something and when they go, no, we're not
• 11:40
  Speaker 4: doing it that.
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: You know, everybody, you gotta do it this way. It's
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: always run this way.
• 11:44
  Speaker 4: The guy that goes the other way doesn't get maybe
• 11:46
  Speaker 4: the success right away, but he usually gets it because
• 11:48
  Speaker 4: he's doing something different than everybody else. And that's what
• 11:51
  Speaker 4: they were doing because people had the same show. So
• 11:54
  Speaker 4: they get Iron Cheek the belt because the whole point
• 11:57
  Speaker 4: is to get him the belt.
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: So now he's the bad guy.
• 11:59
  Speaker 4: He's leaning into the Iranian stuff like so bad, like
• 12:02
  Speaker 4: where he's telling people like.
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: You know, like yeah, fuck America, like we're the death
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: to America.
• 12:07
  Speaker 4: And then your hero arises right out of nowhere, o'kogan's like, oh,
• 12:11
  Speaker 4: I'm let's get this guy. It builds the two up,
• 12:15
  Speaker 4: the emotion gets together. They have WrestleMania one. He drops it,
• 12:19
  Speaker 4: you know, he and then he even talks about it
• 12:21
  Speaker 4: because he's like, he's like back that, you could tell
• 12:23
  Speaker 4: he's a old timers, so he's like, back then, we
• 12:24
  Speaker 4: didn't rehearse everything right, and he was like, I just
• 12:27
  Speaker 4: ran and attacked him right.
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: We went with what the audience felt, which makes sense.
• 12:31
  Speaker 4: I think a lot of like, uh, not just stand
• 12:34
  Speaker 4: up comedians, but a lot of improv actors would be
• 12:37
  Speaker 4: able to relate to that to where it's like, yeah,
• 12:39
  Speaker 4: let's go with the motion of how the audience is feeling.
• 12:41
  Speaker 4: And then you get the whole moment of him cheering
• 12:44
  Speaker 4: with the crowd, the crowd lifting him up. So that
• 12:46
  Speaker 4: builds this character where they're like, now we're connected with him, he.
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: Needs our help. Let's cheer louder, you know he can
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: hear us.
• 12:52
  Speaker 4: And then boom, leg drop one, two three, He's now
• 12:56
  Speaker 4: the champion, which catapults him to this new level of
• 13:00
  Speaker 4: fame where it's like even wrestling had never seen anything
• 13:03
  Speaker 4: like this before. It's more of an obscure kind of hobbyist, like, hey,
• 13:07
  Speaker 4: you're a wrestling fan.
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: That's weird. And now it's like mainstream MTV, late night
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: TV shows.
• 13:12
  Speaker 5: It's everywhere and the Just to be clear, this series
• 13:16
  Speaker 5: doesn't make in any of these claims, But as I'm
• 13:18
  Speaker 5: watching this, I'm also thinking that if here's this national
• 13:24
  Speaker 5: event and they're promoting America beating Iran and there's like
• 13:28
  Speaker 5: an Iran conscious scandal going on, there's like some political
• 13:31
  Speaker 5: stuff happening with you know, Reagan, and people are questioning
• 13:35
  Speaker 5: how American, even the leaders of America are. So once
• 13:38
  Speaker 5: you've got the attention of the American public and something
• 13:41
  Speaker 5: that's like makes them want to feel patriotic again, there's
• 13:45
  Speaker 5: no reason for the state to not just be like,
• 13:48
  Speaker 5: let's let this, you know, let's let them cook. Let's
• 13:50
  Speaker 5: let this whole coking thing cook a little bit, because
• 13:53
  Speaker 5: it sort of reinjects just like a blind patriotism and
• 13:57
  Speaker 5: it feels great, like I will again. I'm like five
• 14:00
  Speaker 5: verse six at this point when this is all happening,
• 14:02
  Speaker 5: So I got the best version of all this. I
• 14:05
  Speaker 5: didn't know what the hell politics were Iran contract. I
• 14:08
  Speaker 5: just knew there was like some badass beating up Iranian
• 14:11
  Speaker 5: terrorists in the middle of the world stage. And I
• 14:14
  Speaker 5: think at this point too, like I'm not remove it,
• 14:17
  Speaker 5: like I have no idea what a k faber a
• 14:18
  Speaker 5: heel is or scripts or anything. Right, I probably thought
• 14:21
  Speaker 5: Beg's Bunny was like a real character somewhere that I
• 14:24
  Speaker 5: just didn't have access to.
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: Exactly. Like it's fun, right, and you fall into it.
• 14:30
  Speaker 4: You're not even like I mean if I'm saying you
• 14:32
  Speaker 4: say as a little child, like I don't know that
• 14:35
  Speaker 4: I'm being.
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: Programmed to be like, yeah, I'm a patriot, man, I
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: hate these Ranians. I don't know that.
• 14:41
  Speaker 4: I just see Holk Hogan as this he Man, And again,
• 14:44
  Speaker 4: at that time, he Man was a cartoon. Like there's
• 14:47
  Speaker 4: all these things that are meshing together, which does to
• 14:51
  Speaker 4: bring to your point, like I've thought this for a
• 14:53
  Speaker 4: long time, and that's kind of why I like watching
• 14:55
  Speaker 4: these episodes. It tells you into this like scene of
• 14:58
  Speaker 4: where it's like it's not telling the conspiracy, but you
• 15:01
  Speaker 4: can see it right in front of your eyes, because
• 15:02
  Speaker 4: it's like what's dictating this, Like is it the things
• 15:06
  Speaker 4: that are happening in the world, and they're just reviewing
• 15:08
  Speaker 4: it or is it part of this whole like putting
• 15:10
  Speaker 4: this in the ether and it gets people ignited because
• 15:13
  Speaker 4: I see a lot through wrestling that people don't talk
• 15:17
  Speaker 4: about as much. You see it in movies, you see
• 15:19
  Speaker 4: it in like they're like, oh, break down this song.
• 15:21
  Speaker 5: Break.
• 15:21
  Speaker 4: I'm like, wrestling has a lot of occultism, a lot
• 15:24
  Speaker 4: of like propaganda like mixed into it.
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: Now, how that is.
• 15:28
  Speaker 4: Is there some guy like telling them to do that
• 15:29
  Speaker 4: or is it just like them copying society whatever. I
• 15:33
  Speaker 4: thought that you can see that throughout this film because
• 15:35
  Speaker 4: then as you're building up Whuk Cogan and he's this
• 15:38
  Speaker 4: huge American hero and.
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: Obviously it's for profits, right, Like I get that.
• 15:41
  Speaker 4: I'm not saying it's only for this like conspiratorial thing. Yes,
• 15:45
  Speaker 4: for they want to make more money, they want to
• 15:47
  Speaker 4: be the biggest company. And then they get to WrestleMania three,
• 15:50
  Speaker 4: like they go to WrestleMania two, bring more star power,
• 15:53
  Speaker 4: trying to get things going and it doesn't flop, but
• 15:56
  Speaker 4: it's not as big as the first one, and they
• 15:59
  Speaker 4: want to do more.
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: They really want to get.
• 16:00
  Speaker 4: On the map, and they bring out who was just
• 16:03
  Speaker 4: recently retired, Andre the giant like who was kind of
• 16:06
  Speaker 4: the first spectacle in the sport, right Like, he was
• 16:09
  Speaker 4: this huge, giant guy. And you know, we see when
• 16:12
  Speaker 4: I went to you know, we see this big, overweight,
• 16:14
  Speaker 4: like tall like me, mammoth guy.
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: But before he was pretty pretty.
• 16:20
  Speaker 5: That's where like I think that most kids would have
• 16:22
  Speaker 5: known about him in the nineties.
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: It's price. That's a good point, princess and how he looked.
• 16:27
  Speaker 4: But if you go back, he was like huge and
• 16:30
  Speaker 4: not like, oh he was very athletic. He was like
• 16:33
  Speaker 4: the biggest wrestler at the time, not just in size wise,
• 16:36
  Speaker 4: but just like bringing anywhere and he went to all
• 16:38
  Speaker 4: the territories. Everybody would take him because they're like, oh man, Andre,
• 16:41
  Speaker 4: the giants here.
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: Man, we're gonna we're.
• 16:43
  Speaker 5: Gonna travelings like sideshow.
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: We're gonna fill the house tonight.
• 16:49
  Speaker 4: So Hogan and Andre had fought many times, but because
• 16:54
  Speaker 4: WWF at the time, now WWE they had it where
• 16:59
  Speaker 4: they're like when we never did it here, right like,
• 17:02
  Speaker 4: even though they kind of did it here, but it's
• 17:03
  Speaker 4: not on televised it's not Wrestledmania. It also shows you
• 17:06
  Speaker 4: how short people's like attention span. And I'm always wondering
• 17:09
  Speaker 4: if there's like a guy that's like, hey man, I
• 17:11
  Speaker 4: remember they wrestled in seventy eight, like or you know
• 17:13
  Speaker 4: what I mean, Like I remember he already slammed them.
• 17:16
  Speaker 4: But it's to build this character. And these guys do
• 17:19
  Speaker 4: admit it, like, yes, they do think it's real as
• 17:22
  Speaker 4: far as like they really get hurt.
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: There's really injuries.
• 17:25
  Speaker 4: They're they're just they're stunt men, right, like doing things
• 17:28
  Speaker 4: that they have to do to make this entertainment. But
• 17:30
  Speaker 4: they get it that it's just like a movie. To them,
• 17:32
  Speaker 4: it's just a play. It's just something. It's a performance.
• 17:35
  Speaker 4: They're not thinking like in the terms of like yeah, brother,
• 17:38
  Speaker 4: I'm really gonna go out there and smash he said,
• 17:40
  Speaker 4: And they kind of pushed that out here. And when
• 17:43
  Speaker 4: they talk about getting under the giant back but at
• 17:45
  Speaker 4: the time had to get like I think a back
• 17:47
  Speaker 4: surgery and he was just out of cause he is
• 17:50
  Speaker 4: I forgot what his actual diagnosis was, but like he
• 17:55
  Speaker 4: just kept getting taller, his heart getting bigger, like everything
• 17:58
  Speaker 4: in his body was gonna constantly get bigger from his
• 18:01
  Speaker 4: like uh disease or that he suffered from.
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: And that's I think what led to his ultimate death.
• 18:07
  Speaker 4: But they were like, we're gonna have ho Cogan versus
• 18:10
  Speaker 4: this giant and we're gonna have him slam him. You're
• 18:13
  Speaker 4: gonna have this huge, this unmovable object, this irresistible force,
• 18:17
  Speaker 4: like both of these two things collide. I think they
• 18:19
  Speaker 4: even mentioned it in the telecast where like that's how
• 18:21
  Speaker 4: they sell it to you, because you have your broadcasters
• 18:23
  Speaker 4: that are trying to sell this stuff to you, Like
• 18:25
  Speaker 4: in the ring, You're listening on TV and they're telling you, hey,
• 18:29
  Speaker 4: this is what's happening. So this solidifies Hoke Hogan as
• 18:33
  Speaker 4: a character as a mainstream This blew up everywhere. I
• 18:36
  Speaker 4: mean they were on MTV to being on like different shows.
• 18:40
  Speaker 4: I think that I think to trail back a little bit.
• 18:43
  Speaker 4: I think it was in the I'm observer. It was
• 18:44
  Speaker 4: WrestleMania one or WrestleMania two where they were doing that promotion.
• 18:48
  Speaker 4: They're doing a late night show and or one of
• 18:51
  Speaker 4: the talk shows and that guy's like, yeah, wrestling's fake,
• 18:54
  Speaker 4: and the guy Hogan gets him in a headlock and
• 18:57
  Speaker 4: the guy passes out because he's like obviously like skinny,
• 19:02
  Speaker 4: frail dude, and Hogan's this big old dude just like
• 19:05
  Speaker 4: like hold him in like a guillotine type style, and
• 19:07
  Speaker 4: then the guy passes out, hits his head. Now there's
• 19:10
  Speaker 4: a lawsuit, and now things are like, ugh, this is
• 19:13
  Speaker 4: like we're kind of low. So when they try to
• 19:15
  Speaker 4: pick it back up in WrestleMania three, they're like, all right,
• 19:17
  Speaker 4: we're going to the top, and they kind of move
• 19:20
  Speaker 4: to the top and it shows his whole expansion of
• 19:23
  Speaker 4: how I'm taking over. But also, these characters don't last forever,
• 19:28
  Speaker 4: so they're constantly like starting to get to a part
• 19:30
  Speaker 4: where they're like, what are we gonna do with it?
• 19:33
  Speaker 4: Like people are kind of going away with it. In
• 19:35
  Speaker 4: the nineteen ninety one WrestleMania I think nineteen ninety or
• 19:38
  Speaker 4: nineteen ninety one.
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: They go again back into the bag.
• 19:41
  Speaker 4: They're like, all right, well can we do ooh rack
• 19:44
  Speaker 4: wars going on. We got this guy, Sergeant Slaughter, who's
• 19:48
  Speaker 4: like a very fan favorite military guy.
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: Let's have him turn and be all.
• 19:53
  Speaker 5: For I remember when that happened because I was actively
• 19:57
  Speaker 5: watching and it was the most confusing thing the world
• 20:00
  Speaker 5: to me, not because I didn't understand like, oh how
• 20:05
  Speaker 5: did this you know, American Patriots switch to the other side.
• 20:09
  Speaker 5: It was just like, wait a minute, didn't like that
• 20:11
  Speaker 5: guy in that face. Didn't he used to be an
• 20:14
  Speaker 5: American and now he's this other guy Like I didn't.
• 20:16
  Speaker 5: I just didn't get it at all. And it went
• 20:18
  Speaker 5: way over my head at that time, and I'm actually
• 20:21
  Speaker 5: a little bit vindicated to see that. Even now when
• 20:24
  Speaker 5: they look back, they were like, yeah, maybe it didn't
• 20:26
  Speaker 5: really come off that great. And to me, it wasn't
• 20:30
  Speaker 5: even necessarily like they read the room wrong. It was
• 20:34
  Speaker 5: just a weird branding move and it was It's kind
• 20:36
  Speaker 5: of the same thing. I had that same reaction where
• 20:39
  Speaker 5: they're talking about Hulk Hogan body slamming Andre the Giant,
• 20:43
  Speaker 5: like this was gonna be the big moment where it's like,
• 20:45
  Speaker 5: oh man, who's this Hulk guy. I remember seeing that
• 20:48
  Speaker 5: for the first time and it was just like, okay, yeah, body.
• 20:52
  Speaker 5: I mean, I've if you watch wrestling, you see one
• 20:55
  Speaker 5: hundred body slams every single match, and I get the
• 20:59
  Speaker 5: smaller guy lifted bigger guy, but it didn't feel like,
• 21:03
  Speaker 5: oh dude, he just crushed you know. It's not like
• 21:05
  Speaker 5: he did a flying body slam from across the ring
• 21:08
  Speaker 5: and like snap the guy's neck or something. It was
• 21:10
  Speaker 5: just okay, he lifted big guy up and threw big
• 21:13
  Speaker 5: guy on the ground. So I don't I'm not sure
• 21:16
  Speaker 5: if I even identify with that being this defining moment
• 21:19
  Speaker 5: that made Hull Cogan. I kind of believe that what
• 21:22
  Speaker 5: makes Hull Cogan is when he becomes a toy that's
• 21:26
  Speaker 5: on TV being advertised to you, and like the rest
• 21:30
  Speaker 5: of the world is telling you, here's the guy. This
• 21:33
  Speaker 5: guy represents this thing, and he gets a happy Meal
• 21:35
  Speaker 5: toy and he gets all this other stuff. To me,
• 21:38
  Speaker 5: I feel like that's kind of way more impactful than
• 21:41
  Speaker 5: guy slams another body slam guy. Because even as they
• 21:45
  Speaker 5: show a lot of these WrestleManias, they go all the
• 21:47
  Speaker 5: way through like eighteen in this series, but every time
• 21:50
  Speaker 5: they go there's always an interview. It's like, so, you know,
• 21:53
  Speaker 5: have you ever been to a wrestling match, and every
• 21:54
  Speaker 5: single person that they hit up that's usually older, it's like,
• 21:58
  Speaker 5: first one I've ever seen. I don't even really know
• 22:00
  Speaker 5: this was a thing. And that's kind of been the
• 22:01
  Speaker 5: story of wrestling's entire backstory, is that even while they
• 22:06
  Speaker 5: had those independent like regional you know, areas, some people
• 22:10
  Speaker 5: had no idea that this was even a thing. Even
• 22:12
  Speaker 5: after it goes national, even after it gets on TV
• 22:14
  Speaker 5: and they get Cyndey Laupper and they get mister t
• 22:17
  Speaker 5: and like all this MTV involvement, people are still like
• 22:21
  Speaker 5: what what is this? This is a thing. So it's
• 22:23
  Speaker 5: it's always this uphill battle. So I also feel whenever
• 22:27
  Speaker 5: you see these og wrestlers like the Wrestler podcast or experts,
• 22:31
  Speaker 5: they're like, this changed, you know, every single person in America.
• 22:35
  Speaker 5: It's like out of the tiny number of people that
• 22:39
  Speaker 5: were paying attention to the wrestling. But as soon as
• 22:41
  Speaker 5: whole Cogan becomes like a toothpaste and a cookie and
• 22:44
  Speaker 5: a cereal. Like at that point, the character of Hogan
• 22:48
  Speaker 5: and what he represents is bigger than like any of
• 22:51
  Speaker 5: the wrestling that he's actually doing.
• 22:53
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think the part that they leave out is like, yes,
• 22:55
  Speaker 4: it changed wrestling, but not because fans are the common
• 22:59
  Speaker 4: person was more interested in it. It's because boardrooms are like, okay,
• 23:02
  Speaker 4: maybe we could sell this, Like people were like, oh,
• 23:04
  Speaker 4: we can make this into a product. Because then you had,
• 23:06
  Speaker 4: like you said, Hulk Cogan everywhere, not just on like
• 23:08
  Speaker 4: toothpaste and toys and pillows.
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: You got him in cartoons.
• 23:12
  Speaker 4: You know, you had already previously had him in the
• 23:14
  Speaker 4: Rocky movie, which also helped propel WrestleMania. Is because people
• 23:18
  Speaker 4: recognized him from the Rocky movie that had done great numbers,
• 23:23
  Speaker 4: like was already a hit franchise, So they don't they
• 23:27
  Speaker 4: don't give as much credit because I think they're in
• 23:29
  Speaker 4: their own world. They're like, we did a brother, you
• 23:31
  Speaker 4: know what I'm saying, Brother, Like, if I don't pick
• 23:33
  Speaker 4: up Andre the Giant, really there's nothing here, and telling
• 23:37
  Speaker 4: that same bar story over and over and over again
• 23:40
  Speaker 4: that now you believe it right, like.
• 23:42
  Speaker 5: The time I picked up Andre the Giant. Imagine if
• 23:45
  Speaker 5: that was like the pinnacle of Hulk Cogan. And and
• 23:48
  Speaker 5: also they they don't underplay this in the series. So
• 23:52
  Speaker 5: it's worth pointing out too that when Hulk Hogan does
• 23:55
  Speaker 5: the role in Rocky, McMahon's like, if you do this,
• 23:59
  Speaker 5: you're you're never coming back, You're fired, and hulkong Go's like,
• 24:02
  Speaker 5: all right, peace, Like he realized that early on that
• 24:06
  Speaker 5: getting into Hollywood was going to do bigger things for
• 24:09
  Speaker 5: his career than staying with McMahon the whole time. And
• 24:13
  Speaker 5: then you also learn over the course of this that
• 24:16
  Speaker 5: like McMahon's like, you're dead to me, like, he'll hire
• 24:19
  Speaker 5: you back in eighteen months. It's not really that big
• 24:21
  Speaker 5: of a deal.
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, everybody that he has said that to he hires back. Right,
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: He's like, whatever, make money, I don't care.
• 24:28
  Speaker 4: Yeah, And then so this gets played out, right, the
• 24:31
  Speaker 4: patriotism is getting played out. I think like in America
• 24:34
  Speaker 4: with in general, people are just kind of like that.
• 24:37
  Speaker 4: Maybe that's why they needed a big event in two
• 24:39
  Speaker 4: thousand and one. Oh, I don't know, but then they
• 24:42
  Speaker 4: kind of push off. They go, hey, man, Hogan's dead.
• 24:45
  Speaker 4: Hogan's gonna retire. They make a big deal out of it.
• 24:48
  Speaker 4: He's gonna retire, and he's gonna go into acting. And
• 24:51
  Speaker 4: I will say, you know he did mister Nanny. I've
• 24:54
  Speaker 4: so as a kid again as a kid suburban Commando.
• 24:58
  Speaker 4: I thought that was like sick, just so sick man,
• 25:01
  Speaker 4: like you know what I mean. But to this day,
• 25:03
  Speaker 4: it's still funny to me when he goes like when
• 25:06
  Speaker 4: the fat guy walks up to him and like because.
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: He moves there like hot rods and he's.
• 25:10
  Speaker 4: Like, let me guess you're gonna come over here, break
• 25:13
  Speaker 4: my bones, do this and grip my skull off and
• 25:16
  Speaker 4: he goes, nah, man, this is the nineties.
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: We're gonna sue You's always been my favorite line of
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: that movie.
• 25:24
  Speaker 4: But he does this tropic thunder like thing, so he's
• 25:28
  Speaker 4: just in Hollywood supposedly. And then he keeps like, I'm
• 25:30
  Speaker 4: getting the itch for wrestling because you know this acting stuff.
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: No, bro, it sucked.
• 25:35
  Speaker 4: Man, I don't think that they like kind of like
• 25:38
  Speaker 4: really went too deep on it.
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: They let him because he's telling the story predominantly.
• 25:42
  Speaker 4: You're getting a lot of little interviews from everybody throughout this,
• 25:45
  Speaker 4: but he's the main character in it, right, He's getting
• 25:47
  Speaker 4: to dictate and tell.
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: His own story.
• 25:50
  Speaker 4: So he's kind of like, yeah, I was kind of
• 25:51
  Speaker 4: over the acting, you know, I didn't really And I'm like,
• 25:53
  Speaker 4: were you over it?
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: Or there were people like we don't want to help.
• 25:57
  Speaker 5: No. I mean I think that if you can read
• 26:00
  Speaker 5: between the lines as he's talking on this, like as
• 26:02
  Speaker 5: Hulk's talking or Terry or whatever, that he knew that
• 26:06
  Speaker 5: he wasn't a good actor. He was like, Okay, you know,
• 26:09
  Speaker 5: big fish in a small pond is much better than
• 26:12
  Speaker 5: being like just algae sticking to the side of the
• 26:15
  Speaker 5: of the lake. If he get into like a bigger area,
• 26:18
  Speaker 5: so he I think he realized he wasn't really a
• 26:21
  Speaker 5: great actor, and I think that that's a really good
• 26:24
  Speaker 5: like example for most of wrestling because he's the guy.
• 26:28
  Speaker 5: He's like the biggest guy in wrestling, and that's about
• 26:32
  Speaker 5: as far as his acting kind of takes you. There's
• 26:34
  Speaker 5: only been a small handful of people that can jump
• 26:38
  Speaker 5: from wrestling into acting. But even when they're acting, they
• 26:42
  Speaker 5: they're the wrestler, right, It's like they're doing the k
• 26:44
  Speaker 5: fave and they're just kind of continuing it. So again,
• 26:47
  Speaker 5: it's really hard to separate like the nostalgia aspect because
• 26:50
  Speaker 5: a lot of these guys end up being role models,
• 26:53
  Speaker 5: which is also what part of I guess when you
• 26:56
  Speaker 5: get into like halfway through the series, you're like in
• 26:58
  Speaker 5: episode three, they start talking about I mean I was
• 27:02
  Speaker 5: I was this heel, but then turns into this other
• 27:04
  Speaker 5: guy and I start getting popular, and before you know it,
• 27:08
  Speaker 5: there's like chill like dying children that are like the
• 27:12
  Speaker 5: only wish is I want to meet a whole kogin.
• 27:14
  Speaker 5: So now he's spending all his time with like dying
• 27:17
  Speaker 5: kids and make a wish foundation and like doing all
• 27:19
  Speaker 5: this charity work and then on the side he's doing
• 27:22
  Speaker 5: coke and he's getting drunk and he's just like living
• 27:25
  Speaker 5: the absolute lifestyle. But he's describing and how much of
• 27:29
  Speaker 5: a mental like like chaos that introduces when you have
• 27:34
  Speaker 5: to be this perfect, shining role model to children all
• 27:38
  Speaker 5: day long and then after you know, you're back in
• 27:40
  Speaker 5: your limo, you're just doing lines off of like prostitutes.
• 27:44
  Speaker 4: Yeah, cocaine and a hooker and then be like, hey, kids,
• 27:46
  Speaker 4: eat your vitamins. Yeah, and he has this struggle, this
• 27:49
  Speaker 4: switch where he's just like, man, this is is tough.
• 27:52
  Speaker 4: And then WWF's rival WCW, Like I guess supposedly the
• 27:58
  Speaker 4: Eric Bischoff, who was running at the time was in
• 28:01
  Speaker 4: the same studio Asshogan shooting that Tropic Thunder convinces him
• 28:06
  Speaker 4: to go to WCW. It did give him an initial
• 28:10
  Speaker 4: little buzz because people are like, oh, the guy Vince's
• 28:12
  Speaker 4: guys go into this other program that no one really watches,
• 28:15
  Speaker 4: like what's going on over there, and they try to
• 28:18
  Speaker 4: use the same gimmick, the same like hey, brother, reach
• 28:21
  Speaker 4: your vitamins. And it just didn't like at first the nostalgia,
• 28:24
  Speaker 4: like people like it right, they're like, Okay's back, but
• 28:27
  Speaker 4: that only lasts for what a couple months, and then
• 28:29
  Speaker 4: the people are like, all right, I'm over this.
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: And they were already kind of trying to really compete.
• 28:36
  Speaker 4: It's it's really Eric Bischoff Firs Vince mc mann at
• 28:38
  Speaker 4: this point where Eric Bischoff's like, I'm gonna do whatever
• 28:41
  Speaker 4: it takes to be more successful, which, hey man, you
• 28:43
  Speaker 4: gotta do what you gotta do. You gotta make an
• 28:45
  Speaker 4: enemy so you can get to the next level. I
• 28:47
  Speaker 4: guess it does help because then it motivates you to
• 28:50
  Speaker 4: beat this guy and he's trying.
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: To find a different way.
• 28:52
  Speaker 4: At the time, WWF was more or kids for like
• 28:57
  Speaker 4: probably demographic twelve and.
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: Under right, like when your children, Yeah, yes, real children,
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: not teenagers.
• 29:03
  Speaker 4: Where it's more this cookie cutter like superhero type like cartoony.
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: That's what everything was.
• 29:09
  Speaker 4: And it kept getting more and more cartoony as the
• 29:12
  Speaker 4: nineties went on, because they're on in Saturday mornings a lot.
• 29:15
  Speaker 4: They're competing and going on with cartoons. That's the avenue
• 29:19
  Speaker 4: they had. So w CW kind of like was like, well,
• 29:22
  Speaker 4: this is not working because at the time WCW was
• 29:24
  Speaker 4: trying to do the same thing but do cartoony but
• 29:27
  Speaker 4: like more like hillacious things where you're like, okay, but
• 29:30
  Speaker 4: it's kind of lame, like they're trying to do cool stuff.
• 29:33
  Speaker 4: But then they got like RoboCop coming out there, and
• 29:35
  Speaker 4: you're like, where is RoboCop there? They have like a
• 29:38
  Speaker 4: two year old guy, like all these weird characters that
• 29:40
  Speaker 4: you're like, this just doesn't work in wrestling, And then
• 29:43
  Speaker 4: they get two more defectors from WWF later on, Scott
• 29:47
  Speaker 4: Hall and Kevin Nash, where they get an idea to
• 29:49
  Speaker 4: where they're like, whoa, let's really kind of like show
• 29:53
  Speaker 4: like let's break that third wall, right, like, let's see
• 29:55
  Speaker 4: like let's more show realism into wrestling. And they have
• 29:58
  Speaker 4: these two characters that are just walking around the audience
• 30:01
  Speaker 4: going like yeah, man, what.
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: Are these WWF guys? What are they doing out here?
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: Every day?
• 30:05
  Speaker 4: Like slowly kind of building the tension of like the
• 30:08
  Speaker 4: mystery behind it.
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: Nobody knows what they're there.
• 30:12
  Speaker 4: People think that Vince sent them down there to like
• 30:15
  Speaker 4: destroy the boy.
• 30:18
  Speaker 5: There is the one on contract right, like they they
• 30:20
  Speaker 5: worked for WWF and Vince McMahon, but they didn't have
• 30:24
  Speaker 5: any favorable contracts. They were just kind of freelancing that
• 30:26
  Speaker 5: entire time. So so people don't really know. And I
• 30:29
  Speaker 5: want to point out too, there's other important context that
• 30:32
  Speaker 5: it wasn't just that Hulkogan people had gotten tired of
• 30:35
  Speaker 5: the stick, but there was this entire steroid scandal, and
• 30:38
  Speaker 5: the steroid scandal it was. It was so weird, right
• 30:42
  Speaker 5: because at the time it happened, steroids were not illegal.
• 30:46
  Speaker 5: Everyone was doing steroids. It wasn't that anyone inside This
• 30:50
  Speaker 5: is kind of like the story that I get piecing
• 30:52
  Speaker 5: it together, that no one inside of the actual management
• 30:56
  Speaker 5: and many of these wrestling companies were sitting down with
• 30:58
  Speaker 5: wrestlers and be like, hey man, we're need you to
• 31:00
  Speaker 5: do some steroids. It was almost like you knew you
• 31:03
  Speaker 5: had to do that in order to even get to
• 31:05
  Speaker 5: the level that you were out already. So you're not
• 31:08
  Speaker 5: asking anyone, hey should I like, you're already doing them.
• 31:11
  Speaker 5: You've been doing them. It's part of your culture. And
• 31:14
  Speaker 5: again it's not illegal at this point. And then it
• 31:17
  Speaker 5: becomes illegal, like after everyone's already on steroids, and then
• 31:21
  Speaker 5: they start asking all these wrestlers and when they get
• 31:24
  Speaker 5: to hul Cogan and Hole Cogan, supposed to be the
• 31:27
  Speaker 5: role model eat your vitamins, you know, like be nice
• 31:29
  Speaker 5: to your mom. I don't do anything bad. And then
• 31:32
  Speaker 5: he's straight up as like, I've never done steroids in
• 31:35
  Speaker 5: my life. I would never do steroids. I think you know,
• 31:37
  Speaker 5: they're horrible. Like he just flat out lies to anybody
• 31:40
  Speaker 5: to ask them about it. And apparently I didn't realize
• 31:44
  Speaker 5: this is the time because I also got swept up
• 31:47
  Speaker 5: in like, oh hohle Cogan betrayed everybody, Like I didn't
• 31:50
  Speaker 5: know why he had lost his mojo. But that was
• 31:52
  Speaker 5: the reason. Was because now he's a liar. He's not
• 31:56
  Speaker 5: a role model for American kids anymore. But everyone else
• 31:59
  Speaker 5: that's getting interviewed when they ask about that moment when
• 32:02
  Speaker 5: hul Cogan lies about steroids, they're all like, oh, man,
• 32:06
  Speaker 5: Like that was that was the chance to just come
• 32:08
  Speaker 5: out and be like, yeah, of course we do. And
• 32:10
  Speaker 5: if he had just done that thing, then he might
• 32:13
  Speaker 5: not have taken that hit, which then causes him to
• 32:17
  Speaker 5: slowly turn heel spoiler alert, right, But that that was
• 32:21
  Speaker 5: that was one of the main reasons. And it's I
• 32:22
  Speaker 5: don't even think that it was because the fans were like, oh,
• 32:26
  Speaker 5: what do you mean Hulk's doing steroids. Well, I'm gonna
• 32:29
  Speaker 5: find a different wrestler that doesn't do steroids now, like
• 32:32
  Speaker 5: good luck, you know, I think again, this was the
• 32:36
  Speaker 5: media and politics and everything else that would you know
• 32:40
  Speaker 5: tonight at nine is Whole Cogan actually a horrible person
• 32:43
  Speaker 5: and you your kids shouldn't watch it at all? Like
• 32:45
  Speaker 5: all of a sudden, that became this headline. And that's
• 32:48
  Speaker 5: kind of what slowly eroded the Whole Cogan character because
• 32:51
  Speaker 5: at that point the media was probably thinking we can
• 32:54
  Speaker 5: get way more runway out of just bashing this guy
• 32:58
  Speaker 5: as opposed to playing like, oh, he's all American hero.
• 33:01
  Speaker 5: Like they did realize people were a little bit sick
• 33:03
  Speaker 5: of that, but they found a new way to attack.
• 33:05
  Speaker 5: And it's wild how he became the whipping boy for
• 33:09
  Speaker 5: like all of wrestling. Every wrestler on TV was doing
• 33:13
  Speaker 5: the exact same thing, but he becomes the scapegoat for
• 33:16
  Speaker 5: the whole.
• 33:16
  Speaker 4: Thing cause he's the giant star of the megastars, so
• 33:19
  Speaker 4: he kind of absorbs a lot of.
• 33:21
  Speaker 5: That any lied. I mean, he's straight up wide about it,
• 33:24
  Speaker 5: you know. And it was and it was like the
• 33:25
  Speaker 5: easiest thing to be like, come on.
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: Guy and the time started switching.
• 33:32
  Speaker 4: Right, It's like about ninety five ninety six, you got it,
• 33:35
  Speaker 4: like MTV being a lot more out there, having different
• 33:37
  Speaker 4: types of shows.
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: You got like Jerry Springers and stuff like that.
• 33:40
  Speaker 4: Like we're things are elevating in the television world in general,
• 33:45
  Speaker 4: to like this realism where it's like we want to
• 33:47
  Speaker 4: see people fighting, we want to see drama. We want
• 33:50
  Speaker 4: but it make it more real, not just this drama,
• 33:53
  Speaker 4: this cinematic drama, but we want like drama.
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: That feels real. And it's like they they.
• 33:58
  Speaker 4: Saw the opportunity, like, well this star is fading, right,
• 34:01
  Speaker 4: this nostalgia effect that we had is not working.
• 34:04
  Speaker 5: Dude, I don't get that at all. How does taking
• 34:06
  Speaker 5: steroids make wrestling like those muscles are real? Like that
• 34:10
  Speaker 5: dude is actually jacked, Like those steroids are causing a
• 34:14
  Speaker 5: change in physical reality. And some people are like, oh, bro,
• 34:17
  Speaker 5: it's all fake. I mean Barry Bonds was smashing those
• 34:21
  Speaker 5: balls out of the park. Mark McGuire, Right, that's not fake.
• 34:24
  Speaker 5: It might maybe you had like your thumb on the
• 34:26
  Speaker 5: scale according to some people, but that is peak human
• 34:29
  Speaker 5: potential essentially.
• 34:31
  Speaker 4: Also too, what about all the people that do steroids
• 34:33
  Speaker 4: that don't become successful, Like not everybody that. It's not
• 34:36
  Speaker 4: like you just take a steroid and you're like, no,
• 34:38
  Speaker 4: I'm the best. It's like no, you still have to
• 34:40
  Speaker 4: have skill and talent. Like I always thought, like, hey,
• 34:43
  Speaker 4: let them all do steroids.
• 34:44
  Speaker 5: Man, I don't hear like you problems in your later life,
• 34:50
  Speaker 5: which most guys usually do. One of the things they'll
• 34:52
  Speaker 5: do is they'll inject steroids into your back and imagine
• 34:55
  Speaker 5: on the way out, everyone's like, this guy's back would
• 35:00
  Speaker 5: really be working. This is all fake you know, those
• 35:02
  Speaker 5: is you and your fake back, Like I don't know's
• 35:05
  Speaker 5: it's such a weird thing for that to be the
• 35:08
  Speaker 5: big catalyst of everything. But anyways, that's what leads to
• 35:13
  Speaker 5: people not caring about Hulk, which sets up the perfect
• 35:16
  Speaker 5: chance to like have him turn heel.
• 35:19
  Speaker 4: And when he turns here, like he leans into it,
• 35:21
  Speaker 4: and I think that they kind of they, you know,
• 35:23
  Speaker 4: reading between the lines, are like, oh, he was just
• 35:25
  Speaker 4: being his party self, that's all he was doing, Like
• 35:28
  Speaker 4: and then he got it. Seemed like he got in
• 35:31
  Speaker 4: and captivated by it, right, he was stuck in this like, oh,
• 35:34
  Speaker 4: like I'm this bad guy.
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: I could talk shit to.
• 35:36
  Speaker 4: Anybody, I'm gonna have women around, and he really really
• 35:39
  Speaker 4: leaned into it, and I think he was doing it.
• 35:42
  Speaker 4: They kind of allude to it a little bit, but
• 35:44
  Speaker 4: I think he started living his life like that, like
• 35:46
  Speaker 4: his life that he was already had that party life,
• 35:48
  Speaker 4: but now it's like full time. Now he's like, all right,
• 35:50
  Speaker 4: I'm always gonna be out, I'm always gonna be around
• 35:52
  Speaker 4: other women. I'm always gonna be doing blow and hook
• 35:55
  Speaker 4: have hookers around and drinking and my buddies.
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: And they were able to do it on TV.
• 36:00
  Speaker 4: So like this was the peak era of WCW where
• 36:03
  Speaker 4: they had the nWo, which also another symbolistic thing, right,
• 36:07
  Speaker 4: like where it's like in the New World Order.
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: Huh, that's pretty crazy, right.
• 36:11
  Speaker 5: I can pinpoint the exact moment. I was out of
• 36:14
  Speaker 5: wrestling as a kid, and it was like this this point,
• 36:18
  Speaker 5: it was maybe a little bit before Hogan turned heel,
• 36:20
  Speaker 5: but when he actually turned heel, I mean, I'm guessing
• 36:23
  Speaker 5: at numbers, I had to be twelve or thirteen or something.
• 36:26
  Speaker 5: And I remember when he came out with like the
• 36:28
  Speaker 5: painted on black like sideburns and everything. I was like, oh, dude,
• 36:33
  Speaker 5: Like and this was also silly as I heard rumors
• 36:36
  Speaker 5: in the hallways like, hey, bro, did you know wrestling's fake?
• 36:39
  Speaker 5: Did you know that? Like like all the things are
• 36:41
  Speaker 5: actually stage and they're all set and they know who's
• 36:43
  Speaker 5: gonna win wrestle Mania. It's like whatever, bro, a conspiracy theorists,
• 36:47
  Speaker 5: you know what I mean. But like this was the
• 36:50
  Speaker 5: moment when they came out and I was like, oh wow,
• 36:52
  Speaker 5: this legit is. And I remember because it was USA,
• 36:57
  Speaker 5: I think had part of it in teens. He had
• 37:00
  Speaker 5: some of it. And then there was wrestling on at
• 37:02
  Speaker 5: the exact same time. They usually have wrestling opposite of boxing,
• 37:08
  Speaker 5: and I remember there was like an exact moment where
• 37:10
  Speaker 5: I was like, this is fake. I'm gonna go and
• 37:12
  Speaker 5: watch boxing. Little did I know that boxing is also
• 37:15
  Speaker 5: all staged in fake.
• 37:16
  Speaker 4: But whatever wouldubae you got for now you went to
• 37:20
  Speaker 4: the phase the next level.
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: We're like, this is the real stuff.
• 37:24
  Speaker 5: I'm back, Yeah, dude, I'm back on wrestling. I kind
• 37:26
  Speaker 5: of wish I had stuck with it a little bit longer,
• 37:30
  Speaker 5: and if it had been explained that this is fake
• 37:33
  Speaker 5: and this is all k fabe, I think I would
• 37:35
  Speaker 5: have appreciated it more as opposed to because then once
• 37:39
  Speaker 5: in my mind, once you figure out that it's all
• 37:41
  Speaker 5: fake and k fabe and the heel and all that stuff,
• 37:43
  Speaker 5: it's like, okay, it's for babies, and like once you
• 37:46
  Speaker 5: understand that it's fake, then you kind of outgrew it,
• 37:49
  Speaker 5: like Santa Claus. But that's not necessarily true, but that's
• 37:53
  Speaker 5: the way that they'll To your point where if you
• 37:55
  Speaker 5: were to ask Hule Cogan on Live TV, like isn't
• 37:59
  Speaker 5: this a fake? Like, Okay, now he's going to give
• 38:01
  Speaker 5: you a concussion just because he needs to overcompensate for that.
• 38:06
  Speaker 5: You know, this perceived like you're going to try and
• 38:08
  Speaker 5: destroy his career, so now he has the to make
• 38:10
  Speaker 5: you bleed in front of your audience.
• 38:13
  Speaker 4: Which is to your point, like I like what you're
• 38:15
  Speaker 4: talking about you when you're saying about the steroids. So
• 38:17
  Speaker 4: it does affect people's like conscious level of what they
• 38:21
  Speaker 4: feel about wrestling. Was when people are like it's shit's fake, right,
• 38:25
  Speaker 4: it's this whole thing, it's like, well, yes, and it's
• 38:27
  Speaker 4: appreciating like this art form. Doesn't mean you have to
• 38:31
  Speaker 4: like the art form, but it's just like any type
• 38:33
  Speaker 4: of art form that's illustrating, Like what they see is
• 38:35
  Speaker 4: going on in the world, what they think is cinematic,
• 38:38
  Speaker 4: what they think a story. It's a soap opera, right,
• 38:40
  Speaker 4: It's a male soap opera that is kind.
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: Of like using fighting.
• 38:45
  Speaker 4: And I think they would have succeeded faster if they
• 38:47
  Speaker 4: would have leaned into that. But they were so like
• 38:50
  Speaker 4: it was a sacred thing of like, we don't tell
• 38:52
  Speaker 4: people like what we really do.
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: Nobody should know.
• 38:54
  Speaker 5: Me. When you were a kid watching wrestling, did you
• 38:57
  Speaker 5: always know that it was all scripted and it was
• 38:59
  Speaker 5: all fake or did you think it was like legit?
• 39:02
  Speaker 4: Well, I thought it was I'll tell you for a fact.
• 39:04
  Speaker 4: I would think it was like nineteen ninety seven or
• 39:06
  Speaker 4: something like that. And I was like eleven, Like that's why,
• 39:09
  Speaker 4: Like I was still kind of like I was like
• 39:11
  Speaker 4: kind of into the realization of like maybe this shit's bullshit, right,
• 39:14
  Speaker 4: like because I did think it was kind of real,
• 39:16
  Speaker 4: like because I guess I didn't really think about like
• 39:18
  Speaker 4: even my aunt would always come me, it's fake, But
• 39:19
  Speaker 4: I'm like, what do you mean it's fake? Like I
• 39:21
  Speaker 4: couldn't grasp the idea of why it would be fake
• 39:24
  Speaker 4: because they never explained why it's fake.
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: They're just like it's fake. That's some fake stuff.
• 39:28
  Speaker 4: Bro, And I'm like, what do they mean, Like they
• 39:30
  Speaker 4: never told me, like, oh they know that who wins it?
• 39:32
  Speaker 4: So I just would hear fake and I think I
• 39:34
  Speaker 4: would just like go away from it. But I remember distinctly.
• 39:36
  Speaker 4: I think it was ninety seven ninety eight. I don't
• 39:38
  Speaker 4: know exactly what year, but I was like eleven and
• 39:41
  Speaker 4: Undertaker is facing Yokozuna in a casket match, right and
• 39:46
  Speaker 4: and then like yoko Zuna puts him in the casket
• 39:48
  Speaker 4: and then like out of no where, like and I
• 39:52
  Speaker 4: knew it was kind of like this is bullshit, Like yeah,
• 39:55
  Speaker 4: is that?
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: But then it kind of gave me a little eerie feeling.
• 39:57
  Speaker 4: Then they like put they put it on and like
• 39:59
  Speaker 4: he's see him, like he comes alive, and I'm like, hey, man,
• 40:02
  Speaker 4: like what's his freaky shit?
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: Like it kind of threw me into a loop, like
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: it's like weird.
• 40:07
  Speaker 4: It was like the fighting of my brother, like child
• 40:10
  Speaker 4: brain and my becoming a teenage brain.
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: Where it's like I know this isn't real, but I'm
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: kind of scared right now.
• 40:15
  Speaker 5: Like he just yeah, like he just brought somebody back
• 40:19
  Speaker 5: from the dead.
• 40:20
  Speaker 4: Like he's underneath it, and then they go on the
• 40:23
  Speaker 4: JumboTron and then he's just like they show him he's dead,
• 40:25
  Speaker 4: and then he's like his eyes, he's like talking, and
• 40:27
  Speaker 4: then he like like totally like fake. But like at
• 40:31
  Speaker 4: the time, it was it was a moment where like,
• 40:33
  Speaker 4: I don't know, man.
• 40:34
  Speaker 5: That's the one thing that this series doesn't necessarily. I
• 40:37
  Speaker 5: don't think I've seen a lot of wrestling documentaries at
• 40:40
  Speaker 5: all that kind of explore that specific part of Yeah,
• 40:44
  Speaker 5: like we know that kids think this is real, and
• 40:47
  Speaker 5: we have to lean into that, and how do you
• 40:50
  Speaker 5: treat that weird dynamic because it does become if someone
• 40:54
  Speaker 5: accuses you of being fake in public, now it's like,
• 40:57
  Speaker 5: uh oh, now I have to catch a charge, you know,
• 41:00
  Speaker 5: to not you know, like back down, because you can't
• 41:02
  Speaker 5: like you can't break the k fape character even when
• 41:05
  Speaker 5: you're outside of the ring. And they don't they don't
• 41:07
  Speaker 5: go into that as much except for they talk about
• 41:09
  Speaker 5: how Terry or Hulk turns into this nWo character like
• 41:13
  Speaker 5: the bad Hulk and now he's you know, drinking and
• 41:17
  Speaker 5: and philandering around and like being like the bad guy.
• 41:20
  Speaker 5: But I think that this is probably the one part
• 41:23
  Speaker 5: where the characters do bleed, like like behind the scenes,
• 41:27
  Speaker 5: I'm sure a lot of these different wrestlers they know
• 41:29
  Speaker 5: that those punches they were throwing weren't connecting right, and
• 41:32
  Speaker 5: they were like just stomping their foot and everything, but
• 41:34
  Speaker 5: they're maybe not as convinced that they're not this badass.
• 41:38
  Speaker 5: You know, they just won a match and that like
• 41:40
  Speaker 5: I got thousands of you know, millions of fans that
• 41:42
  Speaker 5: love me or whatever. That probably goes to your head.
• 41:45
  Speaker 5: So you're you're able to be like, oh, yeah, no,
• 41:47
  Speaker 5: the punches are fake, but you're like, but I am
• 41:49
  Speaker 5: this badass, you know. So that's kind of what he
• 41:52
  Speaker 5: grows into that role.
• 41:54
  Speaker 4: And sometimes they're not fake though, right like, because then
• 41:57
  Speaker 4: there's like, how like because especially this old wrestling I've
• 42:00
  Speaker 4: watched a lot of wrestling documentaries over the years and
• 42:02
  Speaker 4: and and some of the stuff that they talk about
• 42:05
  Speaker 4: is that like it's called a receipt, right like, So
• 42:07
  Speaker 4: sometimes people are rougher, right because you have to really
• 42:09
  Speaker 4: throw a person, and some people are really green, and
• 42:12
  Speaker 4: they're just like.
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: They're they're like, hey man, you're hurting me.
• 42:15
  Speaker 4: I'm gonna let you know. So what they call it
• 42:16
  Speaker 4: a receipt. So if you hurt them, now, I'm gonna
• 42:18
  Speaker 4: punch you for real in the face and be like
• 42:19
  Speaker 4: hey just they call it a shoot, right, they go
• 42:23
  Speaker 4: you want to shoot? Like because if you really want
• 42:25
  Speaker 4: to fight in here, we could really fight in here.
• 42:27
  Speaker 4: So like there is a lot of egos in involved
• 42:29
  Speaker 4: as well, Like where there is the guys that are
• 42:32
  Speaker 4: like that backstage you're like, you don't mess with him,
• 42:36
  Speaker 4: like you know what I mean. Like there's like howk
• 42:37
  Speaker 4: Hawk two is one of the Samoan guys like everybody
• 42:40
  Speaker 4: that I've ever heard of. They're like, you don't mess
• 42:42
  Speaker 4: with Hok two man, He'll he'll beat it aws up
• 42:45
  Speaker 4: man like like that's how And but to your point,
• 42:48
  Speaker 4: there's also other guys that you would see like these
• 42:50
  Speaker 4: huge and they're like, oh, like leave me a little man,
• 42:52
  Speaker 4: like you know what I mean, Like more scary type of personalities.
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: But there is some really I think that's why they
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: get so.
• 42:58
  Speaker 4: Mad too, cause there is reality to it because people
• 43:01
  Speaker 4: will punch you for real. But then when they're trying
• 43:03
  Speaker 4: to get to this realism because they're fighting against you know,
• 43:06
  Speaker 4: wcwww F they have money night wars, they're going back
• 43:09
  Speaker 4: and forth, and what you see is Hogan's just like
• 43:13
  Speaker 4: holding it up and then it just it starts to
• 43:15
  Speaker 4: flounder again again. These these moments are only for so long,
• 43:18
  Speaker 4: Like you can't be in this spotlight forever.
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: Like there's people are gonna get tired of you.
• 43:22
  Speaker 4: It just happens, whether you're winning sports team, whether you're
• 43:26
  Speaker 4: the biggest rapper, the biggest band.
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: After a while, people get tired of you.
• 43:29
  Speaker 5: And part of people getting tired of Houlge though, it
• 43:33
  Speaker 5: was really interesting how they pointed this out is that
• 43:35
  Speaker 5: they tried to replace him a few times and just
• 43:38
  Speaker 5: none of the replacements took right. First, they tried Ultimate Warrior,
• 43:43
  Speaker 5: and Ultimate Warriors didn't do the job. I remember lik
• 43:47
  Speaker 5: an Ultimate Warrior, but I guess behind the scenes everyone
• 43:50
  Speaker 5: hated him and he kind of didn't have any personality.
• 43:53
  Speaker 5: Just screamed a lot and did meth and like ran
• 43:55
  Speaker 5: around and had like face paint that was like his personality.
• 43:58
  Speaker 5: And then they to pass it to Brett Hart and
• 44:02
  Speaker 5: they show this kid in the audience where hule Cogan
• 44:05
  Speaker 5: loses the Brett Hart and the kids like crying, like
• 44:07
  Speaker 5: he doesn't understand what just happened. He's like what, And
• 44:11
  Speaker 5: that's kind of what they lean into the nWo thing
• 44:13
  Speaker 5: where they also show like all these kids are like
• 44:16
  Speaker 5: crying like they like somebody just told them that, you know,
• 44:19
  Speaker 5: Sanna was the bad guy, like Jesus was Satan or
• 44:22
  Speaker 5: Satan was Jesus, and that's where like it comes out,
• 44:24
  Speaker 5: and then Hule Cogan leans all the way into this
• 44:28
  Speaker 5: new nWo thing and then speaking of the last dance,
• 44:32
  Speaker 5: they also show the clip where it's like Dennis Rodman
• 44:35
  Speaker 5: hanging out and it added so much extra context, right
• 44:39
  Speaker 5: because they really were trying to be the like the
• 44:42
  Speaker 5: bad boys of the sports world, like this isn't this
• 44:45
  Speaker 5: is so real that we got Dennis Rodman actually skipping
• 44:49
  Speaker 5: practice right now catching you know, he's probably gonna catch
• 44:52
  Speaker 5: all sorts of like fines and he's gonna be banned
• 44:54
  Speaker 5: from a game for doing this, but he's too much
• 44:57
  Speaker 5: of a bad boy to care, just like Hule Cogan
• 44:59
  Speaker 5: is just like all these guys.
• 45:01
  Speaker 4: Which is interesting because you know that's what I saw
• 45:04
  Speaker 4: too when I see Dennis Robin and I'm like, oh yeah.
• 45:05
  Speaker 4: And also they were looking for him as team like
• 45:08
  Speaker 4: were he was on hiatus, like where they're like, hey man,
• 45:11
  Speaker 4: we got a big game, bro like and Dennis Robins
• 45:13
  Speaker 4: just doing the same thing with Hope.
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: So that's where they were bringing the reality to it.
• 45:17
  Speaker 4: And then like everything, like you have people like Hulk
• 45:21
  Speaker 4: Hogan and Kevin Nash and Scott Hall that have these
• 45:23
  Speaker 4: contracts because they gave them crazy creative control to get
• 45:27
  Speaker 4: them locked in to get away from Vince that they're like, yeah,
• 45:30
  Speaker 4: we're never gonna not be the top guys. Like you're
• 45:33
  Speaker 4: supposed to develop town to keep it longevity, right, Like
• 45:36
  Speaker 4: you got to get younger talent because you know, hey,
• 45:39
  Speaker 4: my shelf life is gonna happen. There's gonna be a
• 45:41
  Speaker 4: time when people are kind of tired of seeing me.
• 45:42
  Speaker 4: We gotta have a guy that's gonna take over. And
• 45:44
  Speaker 4: they were like, no, we're always gonna be the guys,
• 45:47
  Speaker 4: and that kind of ruins it and they got a
• 45:49
  Speaker 4: little bit too crazy and they call this moment. They
• 45:52
  Speaker 4: call it the Finger of Death, right, like where.
• 45:55
  Speaker 5: They had a machine doom, Yeah.
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: Doom, there you go.
• 45:58
  Speaker 4: Yeah, And it's Kevin Nash Versu Hogan. They're both in
• 46:01
  Speaker 4: the nWo and they're like, you know, friends, and then
• 46:04
  Speaker 4: Hogan just pokes him and he falls on the ground
• 46:07
  Speaker 4: and then oh wow, this is we knew this it
• 46:10
  Speaker 4: was fake, but like it's like, dude, like this is
• 46:13
  Speaker 4: like to another extent and it kind of just killed it.
• 46:16
  Speaker 4: Hogan kind of slowly washed away, like you know, they're
• 46:19
  Speaker 4: still doing it, but then now Vince McMahon and them
• 46:21
  Speaker 4: have taken over. WCW's an afterthought. nWo is kind of
• 46:26
  Speaker 4: like an afterthought. And then again he goes and he
• 46:29
  Speaker 4: gets these like waves if you've noticed through this whole film,
• 46:32
  Speaker 4: he gets ways like where he gets these really really
• 46:34
  Speaker 4: high peaks and then it starts to go really I
• 46:36
  Speaker 4: won't say really low, because he he's still super rich.
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know how lowly he didn't lose.
• 46:41
  Speaker 5: It's like an actor. It's like an actor that gets
• 46:43
  Speaker 5: a good movie and then they're not in movies for
• 46:45
  Speaker 5: a few years, and then they go into a bad one,
• 46:47
  Speaker 5: and then all of a sudden they maybe they get
• 46:49
  Speaker 5: cast in a great movie again, and they float that.
• 46:51
  Speaker 5: It's it's sort of like these same things where they
• 46:53
  Speaker 5: they catch a really good role. And honestly, that's it's
• 46:56
  Speaker 5: a good analogy because a lot of this relies on
• 46:59
  Speaker 5: how small the writing is and like if they can
• 47:01
  Speaker 5: turn this heel into a babyface or vice versa. Like
• 47:05
  Speaker 5: it's the writing that's really doing most of the work,
• 47:08
  Speaker 5: and then they're just like the actor. They're kind of
• 47:10
  Speaker 5: like the hangar that the clothes designer just puts the
• 47:12
  Speaker 5: clothes on, right, just go out there and say the
• 47:15
  Speaker 5: lines and do the thing. And I guess the difference
• 47:18
  Speaker 5: is that sometimes the in og wrestling, the writing was
• 47:21
  Speaker 5: so bad that the wrestlers could just kind of add
• 47:25
  Speaker 5: limit and wing it, and then it turns into an
• 47:28
  Speaker 5: actual art form and they start mentioning that hul Cogan
• 47:32
  Speaker 5: does this with the rock at some point and that
• 47:35
  Speaker 5: this is supposed to be like, oh, it was masterful,
• 47:37
  Speaker 5: and everyone, you know, not a dry eye in the
• 47:39
  Speaker 5: house and Academy awards all the way around. And again
• 47:43
  Speaker 5: you have to step back and you're like, in the
• 47:46
  Speaker 5: context of wrestling, you know what I mean, Like this
• 47:49
  Speaker 5: this wasn't actually that impressive.
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, the acting skills are not on par with
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: what they like, like the chops that they're claiming you
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: have to have.
• 47:58
  Speaker 4: That's why a lot of the wrestlers are not successful
• 48:00
  Speaker 4: in the acting world.
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: Like I think the only real successful one is the rock.
• 48:04
  Speaker 4: He's the only one that has been able to like
• 48:06
  Speaker 4: kind of like really hold this long hit like, yeah,
• 48:08
  Speaker 4: they've been in roles, but usually they're the big guy
• 48:11
  Speaker 4: like you know, like yeah so like or the tough
• 48:14
  Speaker 4: goon or something like that that they don't always really
• 48:16
  Speaker 4: hold well as main characters. And and it's great in
• 48:19
  Speaker 4: an art form, right in their art form. And now
• 48:22
  Speaker 4: he goes downhill and he comes back up. WCW is
• 48:25
  Speaker 4: bought by WWF, and now he's involved in all that, and.
• 48:29
  Speaker 5: He's on his downfall too, where they realize that, okay,
• 48:34
  Speaker 5: maybe this like New World Order thing is starting to
• 48:36
  Speaker 5: run its course. I had no idea this was a
• 48:39
  Speaker 5: thing where they keep showing this viagra match, like they
• 48:43
  Speaker 5: put viagra on a pole, making fun of how old
• 48:46
  Speaker 5: these wrestlers are and just kind of humiliate him. And
• 48:49
  Speaker 5: then if you juxtapose like early whole Cogan American like
• 48:54
  Speaker 5: just be Iron Chico Cogan and all the kids like
• 48:57
  Speaker 5: ran you know, like hell yeah, it's hold Cogan. And
• 48:59
  Speaker 5: then ask forward and it's like here he is fighting
• 49:01
  Speaker 5: over a pill of viagra in the middle of this
• 49:04
  Speaker 5: match with a bunch of like other older wrestlers. It's
• 49:07
  Speaker 5: just such a wild career trajectory.
• 49:10
  Speaker 4: Well, it kind of imploded because it was like the
• 49:13
  Speaker 4: wrestlers versus the riders. Right now, one of the main
• 49:15
  Speaker 4: riders is becoming running the stuff and they just had
• 49:18
  Speaker 4: a huge dispute and they kind of settled it within
• 49:21
  Speaker 4: the television show where they're like, oh, well, I'm gonna
• 49:23
  Speaker 4: make you look stupid, and and they continuously try to
• 49:27
  Speaker 4: poke at each other. And that's why like the Poka
• 49:29
  Speaker 4: Doom and the Viagra match, and then like there's some
• 49:32
  Speaker 4: stuff with blood, like I didn't even know these crazy
• 49:35
  Speaker 4: thing is that, like I'm alive during this time. It's
• 49:37
  Speaker 4: not like something in the past, Like I'm like, I
• 49:39
  Speaker 4: didn't even know that existed.
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: But it is hilarious to having the viagra match.
• 49:44
  Speaker 4: That sounds a lot funnier now than I guess at
• 49:46
  Speaker 4: the time because they it didn't work because I didn't
• 49:48
  Speaker 4: go watch it, right, I was like, but again, I
• 49:50
  Speaker 4: always say, there was a point in time while I'm
• 49:52
  Speaker 4: like wrestling's cool, and then.
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: I was like, then I found about girls, Like.
• 49:56
  Speaker 5: Yeah, honestly around this exact same time, and they don't
• 50:00
  Speaker 5: don't go in this documentary, they don't go into the
• 50:03
  Speaker 5: DX or the Generation X stuff. They just talk about
• 50:07
  Speaker 5: the nWo. But I usually remember around this time when
• 50:10
  Speaker 5: there's kids coming to school wearing the shirts and they're
• 50:13
  Speaker 5: all doing like the X on their crotch and front
• 50:15
  Speaker 5: of the teachers and stuff, and I just didn't get it.
• 50:18
  Speaker 5: Like I knew what it was from, and I knew
• 50:20
  Speaker 5: it was wrestling, but that was probably the point where
• 50:22
  Speaker 5: I was like, but this, you know this is fake guys, right,
• 50:25
  Speaker 5: But yeah, I didn't get it at that point. I
• 50:27
  Speaker 5: would have. I wish I would have gotten it, But
• 50:29
  Speaker 5: I'm also kind of glad I didn't turn into one
• 50:31
  Speaker 5: of those wrestling bros that was always like doing the
• 50:34
  Speaker 5: X on the crotch.
• 50:37
  Speaker 4: I think it was sucky it went well for you,
• 50:41
  Speaker 4: though the value went better than because then you could
• 50:43
  Speaker 4: have been that guy.
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: It's still real to me, damn it.
• 50:49
  Speaker 4: So then he's back at WWTH in like two thousand
• 50:51
  Speaker 4: and two after the merger and he kind of buys
• 50:54
  Speaker 4: it and then after.
• 50:55
  Speaker 5: This wild like he dude, he buys it for pennies
• 50:58
  Speaker 5: on the dollar. Vince McMahon buy is his competition for
• 51:01
  Speaker 5: two and a half million, two and a half million
• 51:04
  Speaker 5: wouldn't have even been a contract with a new like
• 51:07
  Speaker 5: character that he was just trying to develop. So to
• 51:09
  Speaker 5: buy the entire competition for two and a half million,
• 51:13
  Speaker 5: it's it honestly sounded like the easiest business decision Vince
• 51:17
  Speaker 5: McMahon ever had to make in his life.
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and it gave him the monopoly.
• 51:21
  Speaker 4: Like obviously there's still territories and there's still little shows,
• 51:24
  Speaker 4: but it's like there's no he just absorbed his only
• 51:27
  Speaker 4: competition though, because even in the earlier in the film
• 51:30
  Speaker 4: like and I'm not sure if it was this film
• 51:31
  Speaker 4: where one of the other documentaries we watched, but they
• 51:34
  Speaker 4: talk about how they were saying like, yeah, WCW was two,
• 51:38
  Speaker 4: but in comparison, you're talking about one to two hundred,
• 51:41
  Speaker 4: Like that's how far they were, Like there before Hogan
• 51:44
  Speaker 4: and all that stuff. Their distance was like you couldn't
• 51:47
  Speaker 4: even imagine, like it was some backyard like fucking like
• 51:50
  Speaker 4: it you could even see in like how the footage
• 51:52
  Speaker 4: it looked grainy, like it looked like, yeah, this is
• 51:55
  Speaker 4: in some like little studio like and it was always
• 51:57
  Speaker 4: in the same place while WWP is around doing arenas.
• 52:01
  Speaker 4: But as he comes back and like you you pointed out,
• 52:04
  Speaker 4: like we see that Vince McMahon will bring anybody back.
• 52:06
  Speaker 4: He does not care how much if you hate him.
• 52:08
  Speaker 4: He hates you, if you've double cross each other, if
• 52:11
  Speaker 4: there's an opportunity to make money, he's bringing you back.
• 52:14
  Speaker 4: And that's what they kind of seen. They try to
• 52:16
  Speaker 4: milk the rest of that nWo thing to like go
• 52:19
  Speaker 4: with the and hope where they could go against the Rock,
• 52:22
  Speaker 4: these two iconic characters and like they were just like
• 52:24
  Speaker 4: even Hogan talks about like the Rock saying how this
• 52:28
  Speaker 4: was just such a huge moment for him. They even
• 52:30
  Speaker 4: have like a little recording of the Rock kind of
• 52:32
  Speaker 4: like saying but like I mean, Hogan was, you know,
• 52:35
  Speaker 4: leaning into it, and I get it, but like I was, like,
• 52:38
  Speaker 4: of course it is. It's like in the context of wrestling, right,
• 52:41
  Speaker 4: like they.
• 52:41
  Speaker 5: Were in motion. It was poetry in motion.
• 52:46
  Speaker 4: And you're like, no, at that time, he's already having
• 52:48
  Speaker 4: his back problems. He's already having like mobility issues. He's
• 52:53
  Speaker 4: not able to move like he was and not like
• 52:54
  Speaker 4: he was some crazy like you know, jumping off the
• 52:58
  Speaker 4: top rope and like flipping and doing all this.
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: But yeah, he was a big uh.
• 53:02
  Speaker 4: He was able to do more than he was able
• 53:04
  Speaker 4: to do in this match, and I think he spun
• 53:07
  Speaker 4: it from this like after you know, you have the
• 53:09
  Speaker 4: WrestleMania with Rock and around that time, then all of
• 53:11
  Speaker 4: a suddenly we got Hogan those best. We got a
• 53:14
  Speaker 4: reality show in this patch in time when reality stores
• 53:17
  Speaker 4: really started popping up but becoming super popular, because I
• 53:20
  Speaker 4: think a few years before this, The Osbourne's had came
• 53:23
  Speaker 4: out and that was like a cult classic, a hit.
• 53:26
  Speaker 4: Everybody was all about Ozzy Osbourne. You got to see
• 53:29
  Speaker 4: behind the scenes, like what's really going on? And then
• 53:32
  Speaker 4: they chose Hogan's real life with his wife and his
• 53:36
  Speaker 4: son and his daughter. And in this film, I will mention,
• 53:40
  Speaker 4: like I did see a couple of podcasts afterwards, they
• 53:43
  Speaker 4: don't really mention Brook his daughter much at all in
• 53:46
  Speaker 4: this film.
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: It is like kind of like literally what.
• 53:51
  Speaker 5: We find out. I guess before we wrap up this episode,
• 53:54
  Speaker 5: we'll get into like some other extracurricular videos we went
• 53:58
  Speaker 5: out and watched and got some more background. But long
• 54:00
  Speaker 5: story short is that she didn't sign a release to
• 54:03
  Speaker 5: be on camera for any of this, So the only
• 54:04
  Speaker 5: footage that they use of her is because they probably
• 54:08
  Speaker 5: got it through MTV as opposed to having to get
• 54:11
  Speaker 5: Brooks permission for it. But other than this small moment
• 54:14
  Speaker 5: in the five or six part series, you don't really
• 54:17
  Speaker 5: hear anything about or from brook.
• 54:21
  Speaker 4: And I think that when they started like kind of
• 54:23
  Speaker 4: talking into the reality show, this is where it doesn't
• 54:26
  Speaker 4: get too dark, but this is kind of where they
• 54:28
  Speaker 4: kind of like lift back the curtain more and they
• 54:31
  Speaker 4: kind of exploring what was Hokogan doing, what was he around?
• 54:34
  Speaker 4: Like throughout the whole documentary, they do like mention that
• 54:37
  Speaker 4: he was partying. They don't necessarily pinpointing what exactly they
• 54:41
  Speaker 4: were doing all the time, but they were just like,
• 54:43
  Speaker 4: you know, they were partying out.
• 54:47
  Speaker 5: That out of all of Like even if people that
• 54:49
  Speaker 5: are like, oh, this was a hit piece on Hulk
• 54:51
  Speaker 5: or whatever, I mean, I don't really think it was
• 54:52
  Speaker 5: a hit piece at all. I think he basically got
• 54:55
  Speaker 5: to tell the story, but they had to add some
• 54:57
  Speaker 5: critical parts to it. But like, as far as I
• 55:01
  Speaker 5: can tell, he didn't really ever do anything horrible. He
• 55:04
  Speaker 5: cheated on his wife at some point, and then he
• 55:06
  Speaker 5: got hooked on opioids because his body was in constant
• 55:09
  Speaker 5: pain from his you know, life, and then he lied
• 55:13
  Speaker 5: about steroid use in the mid nineties. Other than that, like,
• 55:16
  Speaker 5: there's not a single like fleck, you know, speck on
• 55:19
  Speaker 5: his character that I can tell throughout the entire thing,
• 55:22
  Speaker 5: Like he had family problems, right, and he had all
• 55:25
  Speaker 5: kinds of personality quirks. But when you compare it to
• 55:28
  Speaker 5: some of the things that other wrestlers get in the
• 55:30
  Speaker 5: news for, like bro, he legitimately deserves to have been
• 55:35
  Speaker 5: a role model. Like I don't care if he was
• 55:36
  Speaker 5: doing coke the same time he was telling kids eat
• 55:38
  Speaker 5: their vitamins, Like he was still in better shape than
• 55:41
  Speaker 5: your freaking straight edged dad was even while he's doing coke.
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: So no, I agree with that.
• 55:46
  Speaker 4: And plus two, I think he falls into the category
• 55:49
  Speaker 4: of where you've built this character up and you kind
• 55:51
  Speaker 4: of get lost in it. Same thing happens to like
• 55:53
  Speaker 4: undercover police, same thing happens to rappers and actors, like
• 55:57
  Speaker 4: where people just get lost into these roles because you're
• 56:00
  Speaker 4: trying to live it, and especially with this kfab stuff
• 56:03
  Speaker 4: where you're trying to be like I'm whole Cogan on
• 56:04
  Speaker 4: twenty four to seven. I'm the undertaker of twenty four seven.
• 56:07
  Speaker 4: These old school mentality guys that have been around, Like nowadays.
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: They don't do that. They just live Andy go, hey, man,
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: leave me alone, Like you know what I mean, Like, hey,
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: I'm doing this.
• 56:15
  Speaker 5: Are the fans too? Brother? Like if you weren't to
• 56:17
  Speaker 5: keep up the ca fabe in front of the fans watching,
• 56:20
  Speaker 5: then all of a sudden you lose them too. So
• 56:22
  Speaker 5: it becomes this agreement like all right, I get to
• 56:25
  Speaker 5: be rich and I get to be this person that's
• 56:27
  Speaker 5: his personality, but also I don't get to turn it off.
• 56:30
  Speaker 5: And that's one of your things. This documentary pointed out,
• 56:32
  Speaker 5: which was kind of crazy where they're talking about since
• 56:36
  Speaker 5: whole Cogan is a role model for every kid in America,
• 56:40
  Speaker 5: then his own kids have to share him with every
• 56:44
  Speaker 5: other kid in America, right, so he ends up neglecting
• 56:48
  Speaker 5: his own Like he sees his own kids as much
• 56:50
  Speaker 5: as he would see some make a Wish Foundation kid,
• 56:53
  Speaker 5: you know, spend the afternoon with them, and then you
• 56:55
  Speaker 5: never see him again. That's kind of him with his
• 56:57
  Speaker 5: own kids for a large portion of this.
• 57:00
  Speaker 4: And I think people maybe think it's a cop out,
• 57:02
  Speaker 4: but to me, his real addiction is to that that crowd.
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: Man.
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: I think it's that buzz going into the arena. That's
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: the true addiction.
• 57:09
  Speaker 4: Like it's not like he's not doing steroids to he's
• 57:12
  Speaker 4: doing that so you can watch him more so he
• 57:14
  Speaker 4: can go into that arena and you give him that
• 57:17
  Speaker 4: huge pop and when they're like, oh man, I get
• 57:19
  Speaker 4: because that energy is crazy.
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: I've had like.
• 57:21
  Speaker 4: Little, small, small, small doses, but I haven't had ninety
• 57:24
  Speaker 4: thousand people or sixty thousand people, which is debata boy.
• 57:27
  Speaker 4: I guess like it's a whole thing about it. But
• 57:30
  Speaker 4: I think that's his true addiction. And then he's going
• 57:33
  Speaker 4: through it, and I think, as they're why they're watching
• 57:35
  Speaker 4: the reality show, you he's not in front of the
• 57:37
  Speaker 4: spotlight anymore. He's not the main character. He's he's kind
• 57:41
  Speaker 4: of like in the backdrop and he's there the main
• 57:43
  Speaker 4: character the reality show, but not the main character hop
• 57:46
  Speaker 4: But now he's the main character Terry who's different and
• 57:49
  Speaker 4: you're you're seeing a different light to him. And this
• 57:51
  Speaker 4: is where they kind of roll out like the stuff
• 57:54
  Speaker 4: that happened, like oh, he cheated with Brooks friend like
• 57:58
  Speaker 4: which not trying to defend him too much, but like
• 58:00
  Speaker 4: I'm like, okay, come on now, Like she's a younger girl,
• 58:03
  Speaker 4: that's like, oh this rich oh dude, like my not
• 58:07
  Speaker 4: saying he gets an excuse, but like, come on, man,
• 58:09
  Speaker 4: it's it's getting thrown at it.
• 58:10
  Speaker 5: It's legitimately like the worst thing that he did that
• 58:13
  Speaker 5: and maybe like neglecting his kids, which he clearly had
• 58:17
  Speaker 5: regrets about, but like that, it's all out in the open,
• 58:20
  Speaker 5: which is wild that it seems like his biggest character
• 58:23
  Speaker 5: flaws are you know, well known to the entire world
• 58:26
  Speaker 5: through the course of biographies and him on TV and
• 58:30
  Speaker 5: through this reality show, and that was like a huge
• 58:32
  Speaker 5: transition for him where he didn't really have control over this.
• 58:36
  Speaker 5: But also, I don't know how many hardcore Hulk Hogan
• 58:39
  Speaker 5: wrestling fans are like, oh, I gotta go and tune
• 58:41
  Speaker 5: in to see what Terry Boley is doing tonight. You know,
• 58:44
  Speaker 5: it was like you were breaking the k fabe if
• 58:46
  Speaker 5: you went and watched this show.
• 58:48
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't think that, like maybe like a small
• 58:51
  Speaker 4: small portion of wrestling fans, but yeah, it's just it
• 58:54
  Speaker 4: was reality TV people like people that enjoyed reality TV
• 58:58
  Speaker 4: drama were watching that.
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: I think it was two separate audiences.
• 59:01
  Speaker 4: And that's like where they feel like they start nitpicking
• 59:05
  Speaker 4: everything that he's doing, Like I don't think you get
• 59:07
  Speaker 4: a wrestling crowd, Like, first of all, probably not watching that,
• 59:09
  Speaker 4: but they're probably not gonna care as much. They're gonna
• 59:11
  Speaker 4: care more that like you said that they man, you're
• 59:13
  Speaker 4: breaking the kfe man like that's not Hogan.
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: Stop calling him Terry like that's here would have a problem.
• 59:19
  Speaker 5: I mean, I loved the whole Cogan again up until
• 59:22
  Speaker 5: like the nWo stuff, but like I was all invested
• 59:25
  Speaker 5: as a kid, and I completely forgot that he even
• 59:28
  Speaker 5: had this reality show. And which is even funnier that
• 59:30
  Speaker 5: I forgot about that is because I was living in
• 59:34
  Speaker 5: Orlando at the time that this show was on, and
• 59:37
  Speaker 5: my roommate's little brother was hanging out with Nick Hogan,
• 59:40
  Speaker 5: and I was remembering, like, oh, man, it's crazy you're
• 59:44
  Speaker 5: hanging out with like Nick Hogan. And the studio that
• 59:46
  Speaker 5: I was working at is where Brooke Hogan was recording,
• 59:49
  Speaker 5: and I forgot about that too. I didn't even realize
• 59:52
  Speaker 5: it was at Transcontinental Studios with Lou Pearlman. And it's
• 59:56
  Speaker 5: kind of wild though, is the the reason my roommate's
• 59:59
  Speaker 5: young brother stopped hanging out with Nick Cogan was because
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 5: he got into like a car crash and one of
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 5: his friends like that. That curiously does not come up
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 5: in this, but I guess again it's about Hulk Hogan,
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 5: not necessarily about Nick Cogan.
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 4: Yeah, they don't talk about that at all, because I
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 4: think he did jail time for that too.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: I don't know that.
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 5: I mean, that was a big event in Hulk Hogan's
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 5: life to not have it included in this.
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 4: And they also kind of then get into the the
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 4: racial stuff right where where now this sex taped, his
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 4: leak leaked by his friend who he so okay again
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 4: not like destroying the guy, but yeah, he slept with
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 4: his friend's wife too, not a great like these are
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 4: big character flaws, but not necessarily the character flaws, like
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 4: where people are saying like where it's like he's killing
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 4: people or or destroying things.
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: It's just like a thing that probably just happened.
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 5: But well it was from my understanding through this particular
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 5: documentary because I remember hearing about it through like the
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 5: Gawker Law trials or whatever, but I didn't really know
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 5: any of the comment text. It sounds like his friend
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 5: okayed it and was like, hey, you want to bag
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 5: my wife? Yeah, bag my wife? Whatever, but like deep
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 5: down he was like this mother, you know, like you're
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 5: gonna cook me, Hulk Hogan. So he had recorded it
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 5: and sat on it for who knows how long, and
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 5: it was probably just eating away at him every time
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 5: he thought about it. And then at some point maybe
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 5: Hulk was you know, came over for a steak and
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 5: Hulk was probably like, man, this the steak's a little overdone, brother,
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 5: and he's like, that's it. I'm leaking this sex tape,
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 5: you know what I mean. Like it's been so it
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 5: started out it sounds consensual. This was not like Hulk
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 5: Hogan lured this guy's wife but like seduced her away
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 5: from him and like broke up the marriage. That might
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 5: have been part of it, but it was totally cop
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 5: It was like on board, like like the husband knew
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 5: at the time and was like, oh no, totally cool, bro,
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 5: I won't care, but like secretly really really cared about it.
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: I agree. And that's the problem with it. That's why
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: I don't think it's like, is it bad that he
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: did it to ours his wife? Like cheating in general?
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 5: Fine, but it's not that pro tip even if your
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 5: best friend says, yeah, you can bag my wife, like,
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 5: maybe don't do it, like it might ruin the friendship.
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 5: It's not.
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: It doesn't help with the longevity of the friendship.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 4: And then now and in the sex tape, I guess
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 4: he's you know, he's saying the N word and it's
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 4: really out of context because a lot of the stuff,
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 4: you know, I don't.
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 5: I don't know if he's if he says the N
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 5: word and the sex tape. I think there's there's two
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 5: different events, right, or does he say the N word
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 5: in this, because first there's the sex tape and that
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 5: gets leaked and turns into the Gawker lawsuit, But then
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 5: there was also through the legal proceedings, they find like
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 5: I guess, phone recordings and like voicemails or maybe his
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 5: daughter leaked a voicemail to the press while he's already
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 5: in the press and apparently she was going out with
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 5: the black guy and Hulk Hogan calls her and leaves
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 5: a voicemail and no uncertain terms, is like I don't,
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 5: I don't want you seeing this this black fella. But
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 5: he uses some harshirt. It was like the N word
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 5: with the hard rs at the ends. I think, right,
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 5: he sends that like a few times, and that is
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 5: part of the news.
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 4: It does say too that I think that's part of it,
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 4: what you said, but it does say in the two
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 4: thousand and seven sex tape revealed him repeatedly using the
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 4: N word and making racially offensive marks while discussing his
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 4: daughter's then boyfriend. Okay, so it was prior, so it
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 4: was the whole thing that they're recording, like right, like
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 4: you said, so, I'm I'm thinking that the best friend
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 4: is like bitter and all that, but I think that
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 4: there was like a money scheme to begin with, right,
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 4: like at this time. I'm not sure when the Paris
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 4: Hilton and the Kim Kardashian sex tapes were around, but
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 4: then they're probably like you know what, bro, I bet
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 4: you if we leaked the sex tape, like boom, we're back, bro,
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 4: Like you know what I'm saying, Like you're back in
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 4: the like look how the media is spinning. I feel
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 4: like it was a plot the whole time. But I
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 4: don't know, but yeah, I guess in the in the
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 4: that's part.
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 5: I don't know if anyone's looking for the whole, the
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 5: whole Hogan's sex tape. In his he's in his fifties
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 5: at this point, right, like he's got a bad bath.
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 5: You know, he's kind of got like a forty year
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 5: tan that he's been working on. I don't know if
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 5: that's the necessarily the one that comes out, but I mean,
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 5: and there's also some because they don't have Brooke in here,
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 5: there's some other subcontacts that's lost where I guess they're
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 5: beefing as a family and like him against the daughter
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 5: and like her career is not taken off the way
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 5: that she wants it to. So part of this leaking
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 5: of the self, the cell phone recording the voicemail was
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 5: like up, he's already down, wounded animal, time to go
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 5: in for the kill. There was like a little bit
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 5: of a feeling of that's how it was portrayed a
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 5: little bit. But again you don't get Brook's version of
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 5: this because she didn't agree to be part of the documentary.
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 4: But I will say he did come up after that
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 4: Gawker trial. I think they would he win like one
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 4: hundred and forty, Like was it.
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 5: He went from being broke and not having which I
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 5: don't know what that means, Like how do you how
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 5: do you be Baroke as whole You could just show
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 5: up somewhere and make twenty grand just for showing up
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 5: and like somewhere. So broke is relative. But he goes
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 5: back into and I think that now he's richer than
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 5: he's ever been before in his entire life because he
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 5: won a loss to over the sex tape versus four
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 5: decades of being a professional wrestler. Like, now he's got
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 5: more money than all of that.
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 4: But then it really like tarnished his whole the k
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 4: fab of the character that he's created for both characters,
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 4: right from the original hooka maniac stuff to like now
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 4: this nWo guy. And they brought him back a couple
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 4: of times, but then they show like towards the end
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 4: like where like put it almost feels like poetic. Then
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 4: this is the poetry emotion where it's like six months
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 4: or so before he passes, he's.
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 1: Going to a Monday night raw and he.
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 4: Thinks that you know, he's bringing his like American beer
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 4: because they like the whole thing of like now he's
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 4: backing Trump. I never I never would back up politician
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 4: because you know, which is smart because you're like, yeah,
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 4: like I want to sell tickets to Democrats and Republicans
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 4: can't let them know.
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: I just I run one way, right, like you're gonna
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: ruin it.
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 5: Well, he said it was it was because of the
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 5: assassination attempt that he.
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 4: Had a yeah, he said because of the assassination he
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 4: couldn't hold silent anymore. And he spoke out, and you know,
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 4: he did the whole spiel with Donald Trump one of
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 4: his like uh, I think it was before the election,
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 4: some press or they had or whatever.
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: They're like convention and he's ripping his shirt like the Trump.
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 4: Trump a maniacs And you're like, dang, you're still using
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 4: the same bit, bro, But I guess it works, right, what.
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: Works his works.
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 4: He's selling some American beer or some type of thing
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 4: and he goes out to mind you too. It was
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 4: in La, so La, it's gonna get a different feel.
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 4: I'm sure if you were in Georgia or like a
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 4: more red sort where yeah, he's gonna get a huge
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 4: pot probably right. But he's in La, who already is
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 4: like hates Trump, hates Hogan because of Trump, and he
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 4: just gets booed and he just looks like sad, like
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 4: you know what I mean, He's still trying to do
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 4: the gimmick and it's just not working, Like and he's
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 4: trying to be like that that hey man brother American
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 4: take vitamins, but he's holding beer and it's just it
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 4: just wasn't working. And you could see like it seems
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 4: like that was like the depression moment of his life.
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 5: Well, and they're interviewing him and asking about this whole
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 5: thing about like, hey, you came out as a Trump
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 5: supporter and then people are booing you and like were
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 5: you disappointed? He's like disappointed. No, man, that was even
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 5: better than if they had cheered me, because that really
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 5: means that I made this emotional connect and you can
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 5: see like like you can take the mask off for
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 5: a second here, bro, like put in a fentanyl lollipop
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 5: and just like give us the real feelings on this,
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 5: because clearly you would have wanted to go out on
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 5: everyone chanting USA and Hulk Hogan and all this stuff.
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 5: And it is dude. Is it's sad that like the TDS,
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 5: the the Trump arrangement syndrome extended all the way to
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 5: the point of Pete like the entire audience breaking the CAFA.
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 5: But also I guess he's the one that did it
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 5: by backing like Trump, but also WrestleMania five was at
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 5: Trump Tower and promoted by Hulk Cogan and Donald Trump,
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 5: and that like that was part of the whole make
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 5: America Great like Reagan era slogan. That's where Hulk Cogan
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 5: came from. So it was the most on brand thing
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 5: ever for him to back trunk like that would have
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 5: been part of his original character. It's just it's wild
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 5: though that if you compare what made you a babyface
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 5: in the eighties and nineties to what makes you a
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 5: babyface in twenty twenty. If if Hulk Cogan had come
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 5: out in that last appearance and he was like free Palestine,
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 5: you know what I mean, Like that would have been
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 5: the babyface thing. That would have been him like going
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 5: back onto a new arc. And if he was like
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 5: down with Donald Trump and like, that could have been
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 5: the next version of his sort of trajectory.
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 4: But I think it was that time was up right,
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 4: like time had kind of gone and they actually kind
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 4: of that to me, the real emotional effect, like besides
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 4: this dog like dangn that's crazy.
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 1: I didn't realize this was going on.
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 4: Is you're like they get a moment of Hogan he's like,
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 4: so is that we're done for the day, brother, like
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 4: you know, and they're gonna go do their thing, and
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 4: they're like, yeah, we'll come back in like three months
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 4: or whatever, three to six months.
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 1: And well, you know, if we need anything else.
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 4: Well, and then he ends up passing away, so they
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 4: put that in there like well, like obviously they didn't
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 4: get to come back. And then then they start showing like,
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 4: you know, Nick, his son who like towards the end
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 4: they were working out together every day, and then like
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 4: Nick kind of like you know, now him by himself
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 4: working now. And then they go back to his first
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 4: wife because they put two of his wives because he's
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 4: had three wives, which I didn't even really know. I
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 4: don't really follow the wife things like I know now
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 4: because of the you know, extracurricular activities like the extra
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 4: credit we took for this episode where we watched a
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 4: couple of other things, but there was two different There
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 4: was three wives that major wives in his life and
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 4: this first original that was stuck by together.
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 1: But you're like, you guys went from poor Toda, crazy.
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 5: Rich where the kids are from? Does Linda his first wife? Yes,
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 5: Linda is the one that they like they met while
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 5: they were poor and went through everything, and that's also
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 5: where the kids are from. And then he had two
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 5: other wives after Linda, Yeah, two.
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 4: After and Linda pretty much just like you know, they
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 4: had their time because I don't know how long you
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 4: could stay together. It seems like a long time that
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 4: they did for as much fame as they had, Like.
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 5: Yat thirteen or fourteen years, I think.
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 4: Like that's pretty good for like a Hollywood type of marriage, right,
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 4: Like I would be like, Dan, it's kind of impressive.
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 1: You almost made it twenty years.
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 4: Well, I think they knew each other for over twenty
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 4: years though, like they were like she was there from
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 4: before he was Hulk Hogan, like this huge character to
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 4: like you know where he is now and know that.
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 5: One was messy too though, like that the breakup between
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 5: and they get some of the details on that one.
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 5: But it's like Linda was like, Okay, fine, you want
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 5: to screw you know, like our kids younger like her
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 5: friend or whatever. Like it seemed like she goes out
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 5: and just does every single thing that he did to her.
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 5: She's like, I'm gonna do this to you, and I'm
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 5: gonna do it publicly and I'm going to do it
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 5: in front of you, like would go and get his
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 5: like her boyfriend on Hulk Hogan's yacht and sail by
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 5: Holk Hogan and being like, oh, like you know what
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 5: I mean. Like so there was there was like a
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 5: very messy version of this that you only get like
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 5: a tiny little sampling of. But that's the only thing
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 5: they really get into about after you know, this long
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 5: marriage that it was like a really horrible breakup, and
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 5: it seems like that was also the thing that kind
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 5: of split the kids apart. But it wasn't like the
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 5: kids sited with Linda or anything. It just it it
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 5: destroyed the family, just this entire sequence of events.
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 4: This the plot of the story is Reality TV Ruins Lives.
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 5: And the and the TDS kills Hulk Hogan.
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 4: In Treasures in Overboard Moments, I'm mus just go real quick,
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 4: I'm not gonna go he's super on the hidden Treasures,
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 4: because I think my overboard moments will be more like
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 4: things that like I think should have been involved that
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 4: we're involved. But as far as hidden Treasures, it's the
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 4: whole thing for me, like just a nostalgia of just
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 4: like remembering the times of the eighties and the nineties
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 4: of seeing what was going on, not just with the
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 4: Hulk Cogan, but you can remember and place yourself in
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 4: those points in time.
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 5: And I think this one too, it's an example of
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 5: a documentary where they get unprecedented access to Hulk Cogan's life.
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 5: For I think it's like a year or something that
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 5: they're going around and they're talking to him constantly, so
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 5: as these things are happening in the public world, they're
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 5: then getting his immediate response to it. And it's also
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 5: the last long format interview he did before he died.
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 5: So for those reasons alone, you get some exclusive footage.
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 5: Plus it's being produced in part by Werner Herzog. Plus
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 5: it's got this sort of cloud. This explains the background
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 5: of Americana for at least two decades. And even if
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 5: you don't care about wrestling or Whole Cogan, it gives
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 5: you an insight as to like how you got to this.
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 5: You would say you would like that that comes from
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 5: in part like this Whole Cogan Whulek Meania mentality. And
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 5: I also really appreciate the early parts of it where
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 5: you're getting Hull Cogan's own words, which I'm sure he's
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 5: gotten biographies, and not all biographies, but if you don't
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 5: care enough about him to go and read all these,
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 5: you kind of get the highlights. And one of the
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 5: things that really stuck with me, and it wasn't like
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 5: some deep spiritual connection, but it was like, oh man,
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 5: this this goes to show how much foresight that these
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 5: wrestlers were putting into this, even before Vince McMahon was
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 5: on the scene. And they're talking about how Terry's first
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 5: character wore a mask because everyone knew that, like, this
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 5: guy had star potential. He was tall, and he had
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 5: like blonde hair, like he had to look the handlebar mustache,
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 5: he was jacked, he had to look, but that he
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 5: sucked at wrestling, and that if he went out and
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 5: showed his face and he was just sucking in front
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 5: of a bunch of people, then he'd never be able
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 5: to grow into this next character. So for the first
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 5: stint of his career, he wore a mask the entire
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 5: time because everyone knew, like, we have to protect his
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 5: face from the public seeing this. So like just the
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 5: fact that his very origin story was also all based
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 5: on this big, elaborate sort of theater that it comes
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 5: across in this one really well, but also it kind
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 5: of makes you appreciate it. But at the end of
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 5: the day too, I don't know how to separate my
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 5: nostalgia from watching this is as far as overboard moments. Again,
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 5: they do gloss over some pretty major elements of his life.
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 5: The entire second marriage doesn't even get a mention, the
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 5: daughter doesn't really get a mention of any kind, the
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 5: car crash doesn't really get a mention of any kind.
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 5: And even when they talk about the sex tape and
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 5: the voicemail, they don't really play it for you. You don't
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 5: really hear him say it in his own words, and
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 5: you don't see like the direct transcript. It's all kind
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 5: of so. I mean, I feel like they insinuate at
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 5: the like the I guess the worst public thing that
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 5: happened against him, but they don't go out and actually
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 5: show it. And then then again, I guess they don't
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 5: like show the sex tape. I don't think you need
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 5: to see that to know what exists either, though.
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and I think they should did. Not only that,
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 4: but they didn't explore a lot of stuff with Brookwig. Also,
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 4: it sounds like she didn't want to be part of
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 4: the film, so it's not but they could have explored
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 4: some of that aspect, but also the beef with him
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 4: and Macho Man, like him and Mancho Man had a
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 4: big beef and like, uh where.
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 1: They didn't like it. I mean, Macho Man made a
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: dis song about him.
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 4: Bro, Like, remember he made a rap album and he
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 4: diss How do you not put that in there? Like
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 4: that's hilarious like to me, but I kind of get
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 4: it too, Like even though these are overboard moments for
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 4: means because I want to know more on it. It's
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 4: like how my brain wants to function more. I want
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 4: to hear more of like this controversy. But I also
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 4: feel like because he passes away during the making of this,
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 4: I think that played a factor.
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 1: And then to play a factor, I think that.
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 4: Executive producers of Werner Werner, and he's a big wrestling fan.
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 1: I don't think he wants to make him look that bad.
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 4: Right, Like, and maybe all the other people involved in
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 4: this are also big fans.
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 1: And it's kind of like when we saw.
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 4: The Curt and Courtney right where the guy goes up
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 4: to Courtney Love and he's like, this is your chance
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 4: to interview her and ask her the greer question. He's like, so,
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 4: how's the album. It's kind of the same feel, and
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 4: so I get it.
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 1: I would like more.
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 4: I just think that they could have like talked about
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 4: like the Nick crash, like that was huge. They kind
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 4: of allude, like they don't allude to like how these
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 4: were characters. Right the We watched like an extra podcast
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 4: with Bubba his buddy that leaked the sex tape, and
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 4: Brooke is on there, and there she's talking about how
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 4: the reality show was really spun by her manager who
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 4: was trying to get her music career off the ground,
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 4: so it was really focused more on her. And then
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 4: like Nick kind of fell into this k fab lifestyle
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 4: as well, where they're like, okay, you're the younger brother,
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 4: you just got to do pranks. So he was just
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 4: on the show, always doing pranks for like silly little stuff,
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 4: and I think that kind of led into like this
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 4: dangerous lifestyle that he started living, and you know, driving
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 4: fast cars and killing someone. I don't know if it
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 4: was his friend in the car or if he smashed it.
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 4: I know that someone died and he did some jail time.
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 4: And then they talk more about how Brooke and I
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 4: think his second wife Jennifers, I can't remember exact name,
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 4: that Brooke and her like took care of Hogan for years,
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 4: like they were the ones going back for all the surgeries,
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 4: all the you know, back pain, and the epidemic of
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 4: him like on fucking pain killers.
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 5: Like just like describing the cocktail of drugs that he
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 5: was on, because because in the series they asked him
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 5: about this and he's like, Oh, yeah, I'm taking I
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 5: got a fentanyl patch on my leg. Here, I got
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 5: one on my leg. Here. He shows us that he
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 5: actually had to have this electrical spinal cord stimulate installed
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 5: in his back that he had cook next to like
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 5: a little battery powered device, and it like you know,
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 5: basically sends electrical signals through his spine in order to
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 5: help with someone with this pain management. Like this guy is.
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 5: When you say that he has back problems, it's it
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 5: is the hardest thing to kind of overstate, right, He's
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 5: connecting himself to a robot that shocks him so at
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 5: the time, but he's also doing the fentyl lollipops and
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 5: the fentanyl patches they mentioned, valium, xanax, percocet. He's taken
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 5: three hundred milligram weed gummies like constantly all throughout the day.
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 5: So this is Brooke is describing that he's kind of
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 5: living in this like stupor of drugs, and that they
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 5: go over to his house and he would only sleep
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 5: in these like ten minute increments. He didn't have a
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 5: full nighte of sleep because again because of all the
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 5: pain that he's constantly in. So they wait for him
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 5: to go into one of these ten minute naps and
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 5: they immediately raid the entire house. They take away all
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 5: of his opiates. They take away all the drugs and
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 5: then replace some with like aspirin and ben and drill
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 5: and whatever. And she claims that Hulk tells her, you know,
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 5: Terry is like, oh my god, you guys saved my life.
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 5: Thank you so much. So she's pointing out how it's
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 5: so weird that in the series, you almost don't even
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 5: know Brook exists anymore, Like once the reality show thing
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 5: is over and then it's all about Nick and it's
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 5: like he's my favorite son, and oh man, this is
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 5: like my blood and he's gonna be with me through
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 5: the end, and like the fact that she doesn't get
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 5: any credit. But then It's also like, if you didn't
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 5: sign the release form and you were like, don't use
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 5: me in this, you can't really expect to be surprised
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 5: when you're not in the thing. But I guess that
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 5: might be an overboard moment in the series, is that
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 5: they really do shy away from what seems like some
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 5: pretty huge moments at the end of his life.
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 4: And maybe they also were trying to protect her and him,
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 4: right they said, Hey, you don't.
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 1: Want to be in the film, We're not going to
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 1: use you.
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 4: So I get that aspect of it too, And in
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 4: my point, I'm like, why isn't she just do her
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 4: own film if that's how you feel, if you really
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 4: want to story out of there, I don't know how
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 4: good it will be.
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 5: But she also blamed the fact that her music career didn't,
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 5: you know, take off as part of the drama that
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 5: they're all going through in the divorce and like it
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 5: gets all messy and that, like and then the voicemail
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 5: comes out the other part of this too. And I'm
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 5: not going to judge her music in this case. But
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 5: she was signed to lou Pearlman, who again ran Transcontinental
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 5: Studios in Orlando, who and he's kind of got like
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 5: some Epstein vibes to him. But he got caught on
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 5: tax charges. And what happens is that his tax he
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 5: was tax evasion. He tried to flee the country. When
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 5: that happened, they confiscated his studios and everything. I was
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 5: working there at the time, not like during the raid,
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 5: but I was employed at Transcontinental Studios when this all happens.
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 5: And just like every like the doors are locked, you're
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 5: not going back to work, You're not getting any more paychecks,
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 5: like everything ceases. But also all her masters and all
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 5: the music and then recording the technically Lou Pearlman owned
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 5: now is owned by the state, and I think it
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 5: was maybe like less than ten years ago. They auctioned
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 5: off all of Lou Pearlman's a state to like pay
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 5: for some of his back taxes or whatever. So now
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 5: someone else owns, like all of that music that she
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 5: had been spending all that time recording. Someone else just
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 5: owns it and she's not even allowed to release it anymore.
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 5: So that's part of the I think that would be
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 5: a bigger reason that your music career didn't take off,
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 5: is that all of your masters were confiscated by the
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 5: state in the tax evasion case.
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and I get I guess you're right too, like
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 4: now that I just thought of it, like, I think
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 4: it would be a little bit much just having it around
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 4: there if you're just gonna like I don't, I'm the
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 4: one that I'm the hero, like you know, you you
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 4: were probably there for him, And then she brings up
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 4: the wife. I'm sure that they were, but to bring
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 4: in like all these people are, yes, man, I'm sure
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 4: everybody has some care, like even like Linda, right, like
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 4: she goes towards end like she feels sad and like, oh,
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 4: I realized always obviously.
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 1: You're in love with them. If you don't love somebody,
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 1: you're not trying to be like look at my new boyfriend.
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 1: I'm on your yah. You're just bitter and scorn, so
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 1: you're you're getting back at.
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 5: It understandably so too. I like, honestly, I can't hold
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 5: any judgment against Linda for the things that she did,
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 5: Like clearly it was done out of this like spite,
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 5: but it's not like she's the bad person for new
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 5: like he did it first, right, like like he shot first.
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 4: And I think it was probably beneficial to the film
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 4: too to not get brooke as far as she claims that,
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 4: like she can't get access to the autopsy because she
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 4: also not only did not want to be in the film,
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 4: she told her dad to take her out of the will.
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 1: She wanted to be nothing.
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 4: But they don't give you context of what actually happened,
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 4: so it's kind of like loose in the air, like
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 4: she's not like, well, you know, she's like because of
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 4: this and this happened. She's more like, whoa because they
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 4: weren't listening to me and these bad people around him,
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 4: So I was like, take me off the wheel.
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 1: And you have to take her word on it.
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 5: That's it the way that she explains it though, and
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 5: again this is just from her side of it, but
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 5: it sounds like she calls up in a dramatic fashion
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 5: and it's like, you know, Dad, just take me out
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 5: of the will, and I guess in her mind he's
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 5: waiting for him to be like, oh my god, no, honey,
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 5: I didn't realize it had gotten this bad. Hold on,
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 5: let's talk about this, let's solve whatever problem we're having.
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 5: Clearly this is causing. But instead he was just like okay,
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 5: and then like the next day she's just added the
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 5: will and that was probably she probably realized that that
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 5: was a tactical error early on, you know, like don't
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 5: because otherwise she just would have been in the will,
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 5: maybe been beefing with Pops. But the second she's like,
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 5: take me out of the will, I don't want any
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 5: of your money, He's like okay, And that was the
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 5: only response.
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 1: It's that time sink or swim.
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 5: You know. In that extra interview, Brooke says this one
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 5: line at the very end, and I think it's kind
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 5: of how I feel. She says, it was a really
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 5: good wrestling story, but it wasn't a great personal story.
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 5: And I think I agree with that. I think that
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 5: you get so much detail about Hulk Cogan as the wrestler,
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 5: but it kind of falls apart a little bit when
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 5: it gets into the personal, Like they just dip your
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 5: toe a little bit into the personal stuff, but they
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 5: don't go all the way in. It's just like and
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 5: he was also a real person behind the scenes anyway,
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 5: remember hook Mania that said though, man like I was
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 5: reconnecting with my nine year old and six year old
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 5: self in ways that I couldn't even remember. Like there
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 5: was when Kevin Hart came on the screen, or when
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 5: like Hulk Cogan's manager came on the screen with the
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 5: wild crazy hairing like the pink glasses, Like I hadn't
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 5: seen that image since I was literally wearing like whole
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 5: Cogan pajamas or something, so like as soon as I
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 5: came on the screen, I got hit like I had
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 5: a fentanyl lollipop in my mouth, essentially, That's what it
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 5: felt like. So I can't separate that. I have to
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 5: give it a swim because I also feel that if
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 5: I'm ever feeling down or I'm ever just like in
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 5: a weird funk mood, I can probably put on the
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 5: first two or three episodes of this series and just
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 5: get a dopamine rush from it. So I can't remove
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 5: my bias. So this gets a swim all the way,
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 5: Uh for.
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 4: Me, I think this was a huge puff piece, right,
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 4: Like it does try to like explore a little bit
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 4: of like Hogan's personal stuff. But I think there's when
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 4: you're making a film, you have to decide what are
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 4: you doing with this film? What am I trying to portray?
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 4: Like what am I trying to get across to the audience.
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 4: Am I trying to show.
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 1: All the like not.
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 4: I'm realizing that not every documentary has to be like
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 4: this crazy thing and this crazy what about this happened?
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 1: What about this controversy? It doesn't always have to like.
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 5: That we found the bodies, Yeah, you're.
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 1: Waiting for those moments.
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 4: I think it's just from this the design of how
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 4: documentaries are now.
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 1: And I think they did a very good job.
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 4: Of Hokog and it's called Hoke Hogan, right, So I'm like,
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 4: you know what, you did a great job of showing
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 4: who Hoke Hogan was. And I think that's what they
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 4: were trying to do behind this film, is this is
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 4: who Hoke Hogan was. Terry Bulay is a different person, like, right,
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 4: this is not the same He's even says I think
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 4: in the film he's in court and he's like, Hoke
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 4: Hogan and Terrybula are two different people, right, These are
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 4: totally the ones of character. One's me And I give
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 4: this a swim because I think they dedicated this or
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 4: Hoke Cogan, this is not for Terry Bula. If there's
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 4: a Terrybulay documentary and maybe a little bit more wild
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 4: and may have some of these controversial things that they
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 4: left out but I give it a swim all the way,
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 4: and you know what else gets to swim all the way?
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 4: Quote a paranoid American dot com kill the moockybirds dot
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 4: com or under the Docks dot com and don't forget
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 4: to leave a like, share, subscribe, pass this on to
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 4: somebody else.
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 1: This is another episode of under the Docks. Peace brother
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 1: just suthing.
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 6: Bye from now Americans by karen Ny. You Americ, get.
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 7: Some merch, buy some artaling to cars, say you're back.
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 7: You need that print down your hair, Give consent by
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 7: your comic three your phone.
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 3: Think the start, I want more?
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 7: Buy a sticker from the store.
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 3: I think the start.
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 6: I want more.
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 3: B s.
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 7: Just by shot from hearing no American, just by shot,
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 7: just by shot from parent noid American.
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 8: I screwpled my life away driven the right page. Will
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 8: it in light to break? Give you the flight and
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 8: the plane shape with the highs of blaze.
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 5: Some what of an amazing feel?
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 8: When it's real, the real you will engage in your
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 8: favorite of pause, the lord of an arrangement. I gave
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 8: you the proper results to hit the pavement. If pay
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 8: your emotional hate may be your language. The game how
• 1:28:16
  Speaker 8: they playing it well without lay because evaded them.
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 5: Whatever the costs. They are the shape ship.
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 8: Thanks giving the capetated that it is the apex executional flame.
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 5: You walk, your little bombs distributed.
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 8: It war rather crusome for eyes to see, maxim out,
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 8: and I like my trees flowing off in the face.
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 8: You're despising me for what throat calculated the rather cut
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 8: throat perinoid American must be all the blood smoke for real, Lord,
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 8: give me your day, your way, vacate.
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 5: They wait around that hate.
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 8: Whatever they say, Man, it's not in the least bit
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 8: we have you rotate when a beat hits some things
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 8: because you.
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 1: Were uncle Niggas for rell.
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 3: You welcome.
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 1: They ain't ever had a deal.
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 8: You welcome, man, They lacking a pill.
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 1: You welcome, yet they going with the spell.
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 5: You're welcome.