Latest / Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo / Jay Seegert: When ‘Go Fly A Kite’ Makes Sense

Transcript

Jay Seegert: When ‘Go Fly A Kite’ Makes Sense · Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo

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Welcome to World View Matters, discussing controversial issues, discerning current events,
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defending biblical Christianity.
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No topic, off limits.
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And now, here's your host, David Fierrozzo.
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Welcome, friends, family and Christ.
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Thank you so much for tuning in for watching, listening, sharing.
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We've got our brother and Christ, Jay Seeger back with us, the website, vstartingpointproject.com.
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There it is, vstartingpointproject.com, understanding and defending the Christian world view.
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Let's get an update from our brother who is in studio today, Jay, welcome.
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Hey, it's always a great to opportunity to be here with you and today's going to be
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a fun program because it includes a surprise for you.
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Yeah, surprise for me.
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Yeah, I'm taking his word for this one, but thanks for making the drive.
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That was fun.
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So what's been happening?
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You said you've been flying how many times this year already?
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Well, I don't normally count planes, but last year I happened to look at my calendar.
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I wondered how many planes that involved, and it was 72.
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And I was like, oh my word, I've got to slow things down.
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So this year I counted 84, it'll be at the end of the year, 84 planes.
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So, but I am, I do have plans for slowing my schedule down for next year.
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So, wait a minute, how's that work?
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You slowing things down is increasing the amount of trips you're taking.
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More trips, but a few less actual presentations.
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Okay.
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So, I've got seven Grand Canyon tours and a Yellowstone Jackson Hole tour.
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I'll talk about the authority scripture, you can trust the Genesis flood and other counts
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in the Bible.
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So, it's keeping me busy, but slowing it down so I can produce other resources and maybe
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start mentoring someone else to take my place when I get about 120 years older.
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So, yeah, 120, that's a good age, isn't that's biblical, too?
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Yeah.
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So, you're probably booked up for this year for the Grand Canyon tours and everything.
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So, what do you have coming up in the early part of maybe next year?
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When is the first trip you can take out there?
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We have.
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Actually, it's a little different this year.
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We're primarily focusing on groups, people who come to us, they've got a group of people,
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they'd love to go on a Grand Canyon tour, and so we've been giving them dates.
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If they don't fill the bus, then we'll advertise some of those extra spots for miscellaneous
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people from around the country as I travel and speak, see people say, oh, I really want
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to go.
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They'll probably have to wait to see if one of the tours doesn't fill up and then they'll
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be able to go.
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We haven't decided to put a generic date out there yet.
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Might happen, but we have probably about 15 groups who would like to go and I can only
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do maybe four or five tours, I'd like to do more, but people around me telling me I got
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to slow it down.
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Yeah, yeah.
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People?
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Say, it's your wife.
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Well, my wife and my daughter who works for me full time.
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We just actually finished a little over a week ago tour, Calvary Chapel Pastors and
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their spouses.
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Oh, nice.
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Bus full of pastors and spouses, that was awesome.
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We want to do that every year, I'd love to do two of those a year because it's basically
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training the trainers to help them be better positioned to minister to their congregations.
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Wow.
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So wasn't planning on asking this because the topic is a little bit different, but I was
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just thinking, you know, giving pastors that tour, a very important tour.
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Well, Calvary Chapel is a different entity, maybe, or animal than the typical pastor that
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might come out of seminary or maybe got trained somewhere else that didn't get the very
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solid, detailed genesis teaching on creation and arguments to defend the faith.
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Yet you still are teaching them a lot of things that they're not able, or they didn't
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know coming in, right?
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These are pastors.
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Sure.
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I mean, I told them right up front, I'm not assuming that they don't know any of this.
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I said, some of it you probably will know, but some of it you probably won't and it'll
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just bolster your faith.
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It'll give you different ways to phrase things.
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It'll give you different examples that are very tangible for your congregation to understand.
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So they were just blown away by the tour because we don't just talk about the canyon,
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to be whole on the ground and the flood.
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We talk about the authority of Scripture.
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We start out, you know, how do we know that God exists?
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Not just like some reasons why He probably exists.
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How do we know for sure God exists?
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How do we know the genesis creation account is scientifically valid?
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How do we know that there really was a worldwide flood?
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How do we know Jesus is a son of God?
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How do we know the Bible is inspired where to go at very powerful, tangible evidence is
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for that?
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How do we mentor our children and grandchildren and then how do we very graciously reach out
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to skeptics?
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So I cover, in addition to the canyon stuff, I've got a list of about 45 bullet points
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that just, so they were just loving it every second of the tour.
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That's, you know, to take pastors on these tours.
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That's how long have you been doing that?
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Doing tours for a little over 10 years, I think at the end of this year, I'll have been
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there 37 times with pastors.
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This was the first one, we would kick in the tires, testing it out, and so we want to
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do another one next year.
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It was really easy with Calvary Chapel because they're so closely knit in all the churches
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and pastors.
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I'd like to do it for other churches as well, it's just a little bit harder to coordinate
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with different denominations to get them, not that they wouldn't be on the same bus
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together, but it's just how do you coordinate with various miscellaneous pastors versus
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telling you a few people, people from Calvary Chapel, and having the word good old.
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That's a great idea, my goodness, teaching the trainer so that they can, or teaching
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the pastors, training the pastors so they can equip the saints.
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Okay, so Jay and I were talking about what to cover today in the topic and, you know,
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actually it does come back to the authority of Scripture and how do we know God's word
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is true and how do we use that in evangelism.
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But it starts off by just with some encouraging verses that remind us that we weren't promised
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an easy life, the Christian life or any other life, and there will be problems in this world.
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And many of you know that, we go through very hard times, but we have a God who is unshakable,
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who is totally sovereign over those times.
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And one of the verses is 1 Peter 4, 12 and 13 that says, beloved, do not be surprised
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at the fiery trial when it comes upon you to test you as though some strange thing
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were happening to you, but rejoice in so far as you share Christ's sufferings that you
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may also rejoice and be glad when his glory is revealed.
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And I think of Romans 8, 18 that the problems of this life are not worth comparing to the
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glory that's going to be revealed to us.
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Oh yeah, it's not an easy life.
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We know they're going to be issues, but God gives us everything we need to do, everything
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he wants us to do.
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And you know, two of the verses, John 16, 33, Jesus talking, he said, I have said these
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things to you that in me, you may have peace in the world.
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You will have tribulation.
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There's a promise.
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But take heart, I have overcome the world.
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And then James 1, 2 through 4, counted all joy.
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My brother is when you meet trials of various kinds where you know that the testing of your
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faith produces steadfastness and let steadfastness have its full effect that you may be perfect
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and complete lacking nothing.
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So again, we're equipped with everything we need to do for the task that God has put
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before us.
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Peter said, we've been given everything we need for life and for godliness.
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I just read that the James, I mean, going through the New Testament, I was just in James
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this morning, but I want to go back to the John 16, 33 verse.
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I just loved the contrast, peace and tribulation.
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When you love that, when Jesus said, you're going to have tribulation in this world.
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But in me, you can have peace, true peace, because people who try to do all kinds of different
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things to try to find peace, to try to create peace, but it's not true peace, right?
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Right.
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I remember watching a video, I think it was David Jeremiah sitting on two bar stools.
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He was being interviewed kind of casually.
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He was talking about end time events and the analogy he gave, actually not even analogy,
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but from scripture about the end times when all the nations come against Israel to wipe
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them out.
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Christ shows up and he just goes with his breath, he just wipes them out.
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That's power and that's the one who just said in those verses that he's overcome the
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world.
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So we can have great comforts in that.
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Okay.
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One more thing.
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In the gospels, I think it was the gospel, John, there's another verse where when the
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guards came in the garden of Guessene, they asked him, who's, where's Jesus now?
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Who are you?
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He said, I am he.
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And when he said that, they all drew back and fell to the ground, just a little bit of
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power there, just in his response, I am he.
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So that's very interesting that you mentioned when all these countries will come against Israel.
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So you mentioned some kind of stone there, Jay, when we were talking before the podcast
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here, I explained this.
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Yeah.
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Well, when we talked briefly or communicated briefly about the show, I put some thoughts
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together and they seem very cryptic.
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And so the idea of the Rosetta Stone that I mentioned, the show is not about the Rosetta
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Stone, the Rosetta Stone.
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It was something I think from 196 BC and it ended up containing three languages, one
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was hieroglyphics, which we didn't understand, but because of the other two languages we
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didn't know, it interpreted the hieroglyphics.
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So it was a key historical finding that illuminated other things for us.
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And what my point is going to be is that the Bible is our Rosetta Stone in a sense when
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we understand God's Word, it makes sense of this crazy world that we're living in.
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And all the trials that are coming our ways, not only to understand the trials, but to
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know how should we respond and the only true valid effective response is going to be
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using Scripture, going to what God has told us in His Word.
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I think of the rock, a solid rock on which we stand, Jesus Christ, and He is the chief
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cornerstone.
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Speaking of stone, chief cornerstone.
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Yeah.
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So I remembered Rosetta Stone, I remember it being a learning tool, but I didn't remember
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the three different languages.
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True.
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And it was an actual stone that was going back to 196 BC.
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So Jay's helped me remember what I used to know.
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All right.
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Or once learned.
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And what I want to do next, and I even warned you at a time, it's not only going to be
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a surprise and fun for the audience, it's going to be fun for you because you don't know
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what you're into.
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Uh-oh.
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Next.
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It's short, but it's kind of fun.
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It's something that I ran into years ago and it affected me so greatly.
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I wanted to use it with some spiritual applications in my ministry.
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And so what I'm going to have you do, I'm going to have you read for the audience a paragraph.
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And what I want for you and for the audience is to not pull a muscle and you're doing it.
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Just read it, relax, don't overthink it, just read through it calmly.
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And then when you're done, we'll take it to the next step.
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So go ahead and give it a shot.
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Okay, this is what Jay Seagard of the starting point project gave me to read.
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Here we go.
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A newspaper is better than a magazine.
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A seashore is a better place than the street.
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At first it is better to run than to walk.
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You may have to try several times.
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It takes some skill, but it is easy to learn.
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Even young children can enjoy it.
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Children's successful complications are minimal.
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Birds seldom get too close.
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Rain however, soaks in very fast.
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Too many people doing the same thing can also cause problems.
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One needs lots of room.
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If there are no complications, it can be very peaceful.
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A rock will serve as an anchor.
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If things break loose from it, however, you will not get a second chance.
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Okay.
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I have no idea what I just read.
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Which is the expected reaction in the same thing with the audience?
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There are probably what in the world is that all about?
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You understood every sentence, but they didn't cohere.
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They didn't go to random statements.
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Okay.
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Believe it or not, I am going to have you read it one more time.
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The exact same thing except what you are going to do this time in the audience.
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I want you to picture in your mind a kite.
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So picture a kite and I will reread the paragraph.
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Picture a kite.
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A kite.
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You fly around a kite.
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Okay.
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Think about a kite and reread the same thing.
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Okay.
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A newspaper is better than a magazine.
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A seashore is a better place than the street.
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At first it is better to run than to walk.
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You may have to try several times.
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It takes some skill, but it's easy to learn.
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Even young children can enjoy it.
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Once successful, complications are minimal.
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Birds seldom get too close.
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Even however, soaks in very fast.
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Too many people doing the same thing can also cause problems.
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One needs lots of room.
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If there are no complications, it can be very peaceful.
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A rock will serve as an anchor.
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If things break loose from it, however, you will not get a second chance.
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Oh my goodness.
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Is that fun?
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That is.
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I said you can only do that once.
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Now you know, but you can share that with others.
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Wow.
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So the point is something that at first made no sense whatsoever.
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Makes perfect sense when you have the right thing in mind.
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Well, I believe the Bible is our kite.
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So the world is crazy.
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We don't know what's going on.
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What's happening next?
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Where is this all headed?
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It doesn't make sense.
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But when you look at it in light of the Bible,
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we understand it and we actually expect it.
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And then we also learn how to respond to it.
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So I think we're going to get some emails, Jay,
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that people are going to want this.
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Do you have this on your website?
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It's not on the website.
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It's in one of my talk sets for you.
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Video talk is free, but I could also just email it to him.
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OK, so what is your, I know you have a contact page
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at the startingpointproject.com.
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If people wanted to get that, what have we just read?
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They could just go to the website and use a contact page
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and make the request and I'll send it off.
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All right, but what's not written in there is a kite.
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Yeah, that's the solution.
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It's about a kite.
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That's that is fascinating.
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Yeah, that's what it is.
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So that's why I wanted to lead into basically the whole point
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is that we always need to reference the Bible
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when we're dealing with an issue.
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There's a lot of issues coming our way right now.
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We're not taking the time when the show to go through them,
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but you know, all the transgender stuff and gay marriage
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and and wokeism and cancel culture.
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All those things, there's a myriad of issues.
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Anytime anyone brings up those issues,
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it should never ever be our philosophy versus theirs.
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Who are we that the whole world should care at all what we think?
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If someone brings one of those up,
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we should say fascinating topic.
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Let me see what the Bible has to say about that.
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And if they have a problem with what you're sharing at that point,
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the problem isn't with you, the problem is with God's words, right?
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It's just up to us to very graciously help them understand
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what did God say about all these things.
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And I thought of a kind of a somewhat of a crude analogy
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a while back, picture a hypodermic needle.
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And I'll picture trying to use that to eat rocky road ice cream.
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That would not go well at all.
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Would you get mad at the manufacture of the needle
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because you can't eat rocky road ice cream?
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It wasn't made to eat ice cream.
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It wasn't that wasn't their intention when they designed it.
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So it's the same thing with all these issues we're dealing with today.
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It's not how God intended things to be.
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So we want people to understand that,
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not so much as a judgment against them,
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but just say, hey, this is God's world.
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He designed it a certain way.
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You're going out of bounds.
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And that's where they're going to be issues.
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And I care about you so I want you to understand this.
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And really, another quick analogy, just one of the issues,
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the whole abortion thing, pro-life pro-choice.
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You got a debate going back and forth between a Christian
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and a pro-choice person.
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And then the pro-choice, or the Christian at one point,
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says, well, the Bible says.
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And then the skeptic jumps in right away,
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oh, you got to leave your religion out of this.
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What they really mean is you got to leave the Bible out of this.
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And at that point, way too many Christians,
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count on them, well, OK, I suppose it's not fair for me
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to bring in my religious views.
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If we do that, we are toast.
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We are done.
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And here's why.
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We believe the Bible is the inspired word of God.
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They believe it's not.
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They want us to give up our starting point, our foundation,
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while they keep theirs.
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How is that fair in any sense?
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It's not.
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What we should do is say, yes, I do believe
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the Bible is the inspired word of God.
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You don't let's admit that and go from there.
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Because the pro-choice person might be the first to admit,
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if the Bible is the inspired word of God,
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case closed, abortions wrong.
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But they'll be quick to say, but I don't believe
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the Bible is the inspired word of God.
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And then I say, and that's the real issue.
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The issue isn't really abortion or transgenderism
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or anything else.
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It's that they don't believe the Bible is the inspired word of God.
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Of course, they're going to come to different conclusions
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on these issues.
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So we need to keep it to God's word,
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which is our only source, really of truth or hope
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to change lives.
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And then we need to be able to go further
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to give them evidence why the Bible is the inspired word of God
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and not just our religious book of choice.
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And we've talked a lot with you on past podcasts,
17:25
the fact that science is just knowledge.
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And there's a lot of knowledge in the Bible.
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So science backs up the Bible if you want to put it that way.
17:37
But we have to take a brief pause with Jay Seger
17:39
at the starting point project.
17:40
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But if you want to find past episodes with your favorite guests,
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such as Mr. Jay Seger, just go to worldviewmatters.tv
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and the search function is up top.
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Just type in the person's name at the top of the page.
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See that magnifying glass there?
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I think they're gonna do that.
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Oh, look at that.
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I didn't even do that and all these episodes come up
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with Mr. Jay Seger.
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Look at that.
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So any guest, your favorite guest,
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you can type that in at the search worldviewmatters.tv.
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No restrictions apply.
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So Jay, good stuff here.
18:57
The next couple things I really appreciate about standards
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and which makes more sense.
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Go ahead and share on that.
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True.
19:07
I like to refine the way I approach skeptics.
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I always do it with a very sympathetic heart
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because it's a spiritual issue.
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So I'll ask the skeptic, which makes more sense
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if you were to die and stand before God.
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And I say that because if we're talking to an atheist,
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I don't believe that God exists.
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So I'm not saying do you believe, I'm just saying if,
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if you were to die and end up standing before God,
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what would make more sense that God would end up judging you
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based on whatever standard you made up
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or would he judge you on his own standard?
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Every single skeptic I've talked to so far,
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they say logically it makes more sense
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that God would use his own standards.
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So they get that.
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Yeah, and I say I agree with that logic.
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I said then logically it's probably pretty important
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to figure out what his standard is
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if he's going to judge us with his standard
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and they would agree that that makes sense so far.
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And then I'd say, okay, with God we have three options.
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One option would be that God created everything,
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including us, but he doesn't care.
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He has no standards, we can be kind to each other
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or we can kill each other, he doesn't care.
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That, that option doesn't make sense to anyone out there
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that he would create all this and not care.
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Second option is he created everything including us,
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he does have standards, he just never bothered
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to tell us what they are.
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So we're going to die, we're going to stand before God
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and he's going to say I would let you into heaven,
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but what you had to do while you're on earth,
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you had to sit on a green park bench in the rain
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for three and a half hours in between a slinky
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and a statue of Beethoven.
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And then you would have gotten into heaven.
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We'd be like, I didn't know that,
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he goes, yeah, I know you didn't know that,
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but sorry, too bad to my standard.
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That option makes no sense to anyone.
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The third option is he did create everything,
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including us, he cares, he has standards
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and he told us what they are.
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The Bible makes that claim that they are God's standards.
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Now, I can write a book tonight making all those claims.
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I just couldn't back it up.
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I couldn't give you evidence that what I wrote
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actually is from God, but the Bible gives us a way
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to defend that it truly is what it claims
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to be the inspired word of God, cover to cover.
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Good stuff.
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What about the objection?
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I'm, we've talked about this before,
21:15
but I just think about that when you're talking about standards
21:17
and it is God's word, he did tell us what his standards are
21:21
and that the Bible is his word that men just,
21:25
just Bible is just written, a book written by men.
21:27
So it's not inspired.
21:28
Yeah, a claim they made all the time, I'd say, okay,
21:31
tell me more about that.
21:32
Apparently you've heard that what's the actual evidence
21:35
that it was just written by man.
21:38
The vast majority skeptics kind of will be stumped
21:40
at that point.
21:41
They don't know they're repeating something they heard
21:42
from someone else who didn't really know who repeated it
21:44
from someone else and on down the line.
21:47
If they ever do throw something on it too,
21:48
if you don't have an answer right away,
21:50
then you want to qualify them.
21:51
So okay, that's interesting.
21:52
I have some thoughts.
21:53
I want to do a little more research, but I have a question.
21:55
Is this one of your biggest reasons why you reject God,
21:58
Jesus, the Bible, whatever it is?
22:01
If they say no, say okay, can we table that temporarily
22:04
and you tell me your top three?
22:06
Objective.
22:07
If this is one of the biggies,
22:09
I'm going to do some research and get back to you,
22:10
but if I can get back to you with a reasonable response
22:14
to that issue you're bringing up,
22:15
would you be willing to hear more about Jesus?
22:17
If they say no, they're not being serious.
22:19
If they say yes, you get your homework cut out for you.
22:21
So you want to qualify them to make sure
22:23
they're not just throwing up a smoke screen.
22:25
That's an excellent point that a lot of people
22:28
just heard the objections and they're not their own.
22:32
They're not because of some conviction
22:35
or something they've researched, studied,
22:37
and looked for and believed.
22:38
No, they just heard the objections that are easy to say.
22:41
Yeah, most people protesting something,
22:43
you see streets lined up with people in signs,
22:45
most people don't know what they're objecting to.
22:48
They just give it a sign.
22:49
They like being part of the crowd and screaming and whatever,
22:52
but they don't really know they're just,
22:54
they're safety in the crowd.
22:55
You pull them out individually, start asking any questions
22:57
and they will melt pretty quick.
22:59
Most of them, and so it's the same thing with skeptics.
23:02
They don't want the Bible to be true.
23:03
They've heard some things that they like
23:05
and they just repeat them.
23:06
And unfortunately too many Christians
23:08
don't have an appropriate response.
23:10
So it works.
23:11
I call it the Trump card nut.
23:12
President Trump, but they just pull out of their back pocket
23:15
and it works and their Christian runs away screaming
23:17
and fright.
23:18
They put it back in their pocket
23:19
and tell they pull it out amongst a Christian
23:22
who does know something and also
23:23
and it's not working anymore now, what do I do?
23:25
So I'm going back decades now.
23:27
I remember this response when people ask you,
23:32
where do you get that or why do you believe that?
23:34
Well, it's like, what is it?
23:38
God said it, I believe it, that settles it.
23:42
So in other words, you don't need to explain yourself,
23:44
defend your position, that just settles it.
23:46
Yeah, that's anti-biblical because God commands us.
23:49
He didn't say if we get a chance to look into these things,
23:50
he commands us to have reasons for the hope that we have.
23:53
Jesus Christ.
23:53
Second Peter 315, we know first Peter 315.
23:57
First Peter 315, I was testing you.
23:59
There you go, good test, thank you.
24:01
So I love what you said here, James,
24:03
we're now into three and a half minutes.
24:05
We don't go around trying to get people
24:08
to live like Christians.
24:10
It's hard enough for Christians to live like Christians.
24:13
So I like this because I love looking at all this research
24:16
on declining biblical morality,
24:18
declining biblical worldview,
24:20
and standards of morality in America, declining truth,
24:24
absolute moral absolutes.
24:25
And we can't expect people who have no faith,
24:29
don't believe in God, probably have not read the Bible
24:32
to be moral people, but sometimes we do, right?
24:36
We, yeah, I heard this phrase,
24:37
I don't know if it's a build board or something,
24:39
but it said don't be upset with people
24:41
because they sin differently than you do.
24:43
It's like, wow, that puts things at perspective.
24:46
But we're so focused, hyper focused on people's behaviors,
24:50
which those are symptoms of the actual problem.
24:52
So if you try to get someone to not be transgender
24:55
or to not do this or not do that, it's a band-aid,
24:58
it'll probably fall off, it's not effective.
25:00
So we don't change behavior, we introduce them to Jesus Christ
25:04
to transform their lives from the inside,
25:06
and then the Holy Spirit can help them with things
25:08
that probably need to change.
25:09
Those issues we are trying to put band-aid on.
25:11
So in the last, I think we're gonna try to wrap it up here,
25:15
but there are four things that you've left
25:18
as far as the notes here.
25:19
What if God did write a book?
25:21
What if he did write the Bible?
25:23
How would we be able to tell?
25:24
And you've got these four points.
25:27
Can you briefly touch on that?
25:28
Yeah, super quick.
25:29
People say, there's no evidence that God wrote the Bible.
25:31
I say, okay, let's forget the Bible for a second.
25:33
Let's say God wrote a book.
25:34
Some book out there, God wrote, how would you know?
25:38
And their silence, they never thought through that.
25:40
How would they know?
25:41
Well, and this is my short answer.
25:43
If God actually wrote a book, sit in somewhere,
25:45
I would expect it to be these four things,
25:47
internally consistent, historically accurate,
25:50
prophetically accurate, and scientifically accurate.
25:52
And when you apply those tests to the Bible,
25:54
it passes everyone, but you apply the same test
25:56
to other books they fail, they all fall by the wayside.
25:59
That is excellent.
26:00
So one more time people, you gotta get this,
26:03
rewind this and write this down if you miss that,
26:06
internal consistency, historical accuracy,
26:10
prophetic accuracy, scientific accuracy.
26:14
Let's talk about history, world history.
26:16
You can get so much more from the Bible
26:18
than almost any other book, as far as world history.
26:20
But prophetic accuracy, there are numbers.
26:23
I mean, who could have fulfilled all the prophecies,
26:27
predictions that Jesus did, for example?
26:30
All the fulfilled prophecy, who could do that?
26:33
But God, tell the future and then say, okay,
26:35
and then it happens, and it's written down in the book.
26:39
27% of the Bible's prophetic in nature,
26:41
that's over 8,000 passages.
26:43
How many passages?
26:44
Over 8,000 passages.
26:46
What's 700 topics?
26:47
I know what we're talking about,
26:48
was it Peter Stoner, the numbers,
26:50
it's astronomical, the odds of one man fulfilling,
26:54
just was it eight prophecies?
26:56
Yeah, just a handful, 48 of the 300 that he fulfilled,
27:00
a Rubik's Cube, really quick, the chances
27:03
of solving it blindfolded by random,
27:05
you're just spinning it randomly,
27:06
one chance in 10 million trillion,
27:08
I get a new Rubik's Cube, right?
27:09
Jesus, just doing 48 prophecies,
27:11
is like solving that Rubik's Cube,
27:12
blindfolded randomly, eight times in a row,
27:14
getting it right every single time.
27:16
Okay, grasp that as well as we leave you on this podcast.
27:20
But Jay, see you at thestartingpointproject.com,
27:23
brother, always good to see you and have you in studio.
27:26
Thanks for being on the game.
27:27
I appreciate the opportunity to come anytime you want.
27:29
All right, blessings on your ministry, brother.
27:30
All right, friends, we appreciate you as well.
27:33
God bless you and as always,
27:35
keep speaking the truth about things that matter.