Latest / Speak In Flow / CyberSpeak Unleashed: Mastering Communication in the Digital Frontier With Anastasia Durbala

Transcript

CyberSpeak Unleashed: Mastering Communication in the Digital Frontier With Anastasia Durbala · Speak In Flow

0:02
Melinda Lee: Welcome. Today, my guest is Anastasia Dubala. She
0:07
is an expert in the cybersecurity realm with decades
0:11
of experience in the technology industry. I brought her on
0:14
because we have a lot going on in the cybersecurity world, we
0:18
have so much information coming at us. In fact, some big name
0:22
hotels just got security breached. And we also have that
0:28
risk. And so I wanted her to share some expertise with us.
0:33
What can we do to communicate, what can we do to speak up to do
0:37
what we need to do to protect ourselves, as well as she's also
0:41
going to share some information about how to communicate with
0:44
various people, she works on large projects, she goes into
0:47
organisation does assessments, find out where the security
0:51
breaches are and offer different cybersecurity solutions. And
0:55
through that whole process, she has some work with a lot of
0:58
different counterparts, executives, as well as HR
1:02
department heads and consider how to approach them. And so
1:06
she's going to share with us some skills and some experiences
1:10
with us, because a lot of you are doing big projects. And so
1:15
how do we effectively communicate with different
1:17
audiences? So check these, check out this episode, listen for
1:22
these tips. And hope you enjoy. Hello, Anastasia. Hi. Hello,
1:30
glad you're here.
1:31
Anastasia Durbala: Thank you glad to be here.
1:34
Melinda Lee: Thanks for sharing your expertise on the cyber
1:36
realm with us. And I'm excited to hear from your perspective,
1:40
you've been in the industry for many, many years. And so what is
1:44
exciting new in the cybersecurity world that you
1:47
want the audience to hear?
1:49
Anastasia Durbala: Well, one reminder that I want people to
1:51
know is it's been around but it there's been kind of an uptick
1:57
in a specific area, we always hear a lot about phishing and
2:01
getting emails from bad actors or villains. As far as trying to
2:06
get us to click on a link for something bad, big element is
2:11
there trying to get you to click on a link that looks like a
2:14
legitimate website and get your credentials. And if you don't
2:19
have a secure password, including two factor
2:23
authentication, sudden, suddenly they have access to your
2:28
potential account. Now, the what's taken an uptick recently,
2:34
is text messaging this way, this is called smishing. And you may
2:40
have noticed you receive a lot of those. Now some of them are
2:43
similar with the link that they want you to click on, hopefully,
2:47
they're going to capture your credentials. Or again, maybe
2:50
they want you to click on a link and download malware onto your
2:55
phone. My biggest thing is I would just say, you know, take a
2:59
moment and be mindful, these are annoying messages, and they
3:02
bother all of us. But if you're concerned about the topics, or
3:08
the subject of any of them, and it looks or appears to be from a
3:13
legitimate vendor, or one of your clients, rather than
3:17
responding to that message, reach out directly to that
3:20
vendor or that banking institution or that individual
3:23
client and talk to them. You know, sometimes we forget about
3:28
just engaging on a regular, you know, how are you doing talking
3:33
one to one. And so that's really important. And then now you're
3:37
in control, because you know that a phone number that you
3:39
call is legitimate, and then you can get to the bottom of it.
3:44
Otherwise, if someone's really trying to reach you, and they
3:46
keep emailing you and even though it may have seemed rushed
3:49
or not quite their normal style, they'll eventually pick up the
3:54
phone call you if it becomes urgent enough. So that's just
3:57
kind of one area that I'd like everyone to continue to remain
4:03
vigilant and, you know, open and mindful about. Yeah,
4:08
Melinda Lee: I mean, I completely agree. We're
4:09
bombarded with so much information, so many tech, so
4:13
many emails. And then for me I would I tend to start to avoid
4:17
it. I avoid it all I avoid at all. And I don't think that
4:20
that's like what you're saying is the best solution because
4:23
what what actually ended up happening to me one time is my
4:26
power did get shut off because it was actually peih Gee and me
4:29
trying to email me and I just ended up avoiding it all. And
4:33
that's not the solution. That's not the way to interact. I think
4:38
with all of these, this information that's coming at us
4:41
and so what you're saying is, Hey, be mindful. Let's take a
4:45
step. Take us take a break. Be mindful what's happening. You
4:48
can take a look at the message and then it does seem legitimate
4:53
and you're still not sure then you're saying to go go on the
4:56
website, go on their actual website, get the actual phone
4:59
number reverses whatever number that they're giving you. Because
5:02
sometimes we'll call that number to find out if they're correct
5:06
or not. And that's don't do that. So take a moment to go on
5:10
their website, look for the actual number, or go on to the
5:13
website and log into your account to see if your your,
5:16
your, your statement or your bills are paid. And then make a
5:21
phone call to verify.
5:23
Anastasia Durbala: Yeah, and a lot of different accounts that
5:25
you have, if it's a personal account, you can look on and see
5:28
what the login history is, if it's a business account,
5:31
certainly you can reach out to your IT department, and they can
5:34
determine different logins and determine if something is awry
5:40
with one of your accounts.
5:43
Melinda Lee: So you do this you offer cybersecurity solutions to
5:48
organisations, large organisations, and you supported
5:51
them and help them to find out where the gaps in some of their
5:54
cybersecurity protocols. So you will Yeah.
5:59
Anastasia Durbala: Yeah, I've worked. I've worked a lot with
6:02
the financial industry, that reportable to the SEC. But
6:10
basically, why go in and I assess and see where are the
6:13
holes are the gaps in security in an organisation and there
6:17
would, as it has to do with information security? And then,
6:22
you know, and that involves working with a bunch of
6:25
different departments interviewing different
6:27
departments getting a sense of, does everyone know where their
6:30
data is? How are they protecting it? And who has access to it?
6:35
And then are the different departments communicating
6:38
together so that they all stay informed? And as a whole, the
6:42
organisation really has a solid handle on what's going on with
6:47
their with their data?
6:49
Melinda Lee: And are you finding that organisations are good at
6:51
communicating as a whole?
6:54
Anastasia Durbala: Ah, I would say they try very hard. And,
6:58
yeah, as a whole, I think they do pretty good. I think the fact
7:01
that they reach out to request assessments speaks a lot to that
7:06
they understand the gravity of understanding where different
7:10
holes are, sometimes where communication might be a little
7:15
tricky, from my point of view is, you know, maybe a particular
7:21
department is a little nervous, because now someone's coming in,
7:25
or a team of folks are coming in and interviewing them asking a
7:29
lot of questions. And so I really like to reassure folks
7:34
that my job isn't to assess them or, you know, break down, we're
7:41
not trying to find holes with that we're basically trying to
7:44
get gather all the information so that it's clear if for your
7:49
department, do you have a sense of where the data is? And then,
7:53
you know, how are you communicating with the other
7:55
teams. And so, you know, as we work through that process, that
7:59
gets easier as we go along. And, and that that really helps is
8:05
just keeping the communication and talking through the process
8:09
with folks. And engaging them because sometimes while I'm
8:13
assessing and finding gaps, certain departments, they may,
8:18
you know, have an idea of what a solution might be. And so I
8:22
think that that's even better, because then they're more likely
8:25
to adapt, if I, you know, agree or have some input on on
8:31
different options for whatever solution we're discussing.
8:36
Melinda Lee: So you go into the department, and you probably
8:39
have some ideas and some solutions to offer. At the same
8:44
time, you also want to collaborate with your client,
8:48
the person that's there, and and so just like some of the
8:51
managers in the audience, there, they just like you have, you're
8:55
the consultant you you're the you know, the solution. And so
8:59
when you go in to talk to the client, how do you know like,
9:02
what nonverbal verbal behaviours? Can you recall that
9:06
they do when you sense that, hey, I don't trust this person.
9:10
I don't know what she's doing here. What do you notice?
9:14
Anastasia Durbala: A lot of times if someone is resistant or
9:18
isn't sure of the situation, perhaps you get a lot of yes,
9:22
no, not elaboration on not elaborating on answers. And so I
9:30
really want to encourage folks to talk to sort of tell me, walk
9:38
me through their process walk me through what they do. Just
9:43
however, I can try to help them feel more at ease.
9:48
Melinda Lee: And what if they just show you a little bit and
9:50
they don't show you more?
9:53
Anastasia Durbala: It depends on what the area is, but a lot of
9:56
times, it may be I might press a little bit to say okay, That's
10:00
great. Can we click on that if we're doing an over the shoulder
10:04
looking at a system together? Or it may be a request to ask for a
10:10
report. But I would say overall, even if there's some resistance
10:14
at the beginning, for the most part, people turn around when
10:18
they realise, you know, I'm not from an agency, I'm not from an
10:22
organisation that is a is a true threat. I'm really just trying
10:27
to help the organisation up their security posture.
10:33
Melinda Lee: Do you? And then so by you reminding them, do you
10:37
remind them somehow, that
10:40
Anastasia Durbala: yeah, I just remind them that we need that,
10:43
you know, their organisation needs to work together as a
10:46
team, and everyone plays a key role. And how are ways that we
10:51
can help? Say, if they're from the IT department? What are ways
10:57
in which we can help encourage the end users to say, use best
11:03
password practices? Are there security measures we can put in
11:07
place for that? To try to help them strengthen their position?
11:14
Melinda Lee: Awesome, and then they'll they'll eventually start
11:16
to open up and get more calm? Yeah,
11:18
Anastasia Durbala: yeah. Yeah. Do you think you're just letting
11:22
them have an opportunity to speak openly and freely?
11:26
Melinda Lee: Right, right. So allowing them to choose Yes,
11:29
say, what is their concern open and freely and that you're not
11:32
going to do anything to Yeah, to jeopardise what they're doing?
11:37
They probably can feel sometimes, oh, maybe she's
11:39
taking my job.
11:41
Anastasia Durbala: Right? Or is it? What's the end goal? Is it
11:45
to replace hoax or restructure? And? And for my that's not what
11:52
my consultant role is?
11:55
Melinda Lee: And how do you build that? How do you
11:57
incorporate pieces like that? So to reassure them? Have you do
12:00
that?
12:02
Anastasia Durbala: Oh, you just, you know, state plainly why, why
12:06
I'm here, I'm just trying to get a sense of my focus is on the
12:11
data. And where is the you know, where it is, you would have to
12:16
report to an agency or, you know, investors, if that's how
12:21
you're set up? where your data is, and then how are you
12:26
protecting it? And who has access to it? You know, a lot of
12:30
the word breach scares people. And you hear a lot of those
12:35
regularly in the news of data being stolen. And then, folks,
12:39
Nene needed to be notified about that. Well, no one wants to be
12:44
on the, you know, the company that got breached. And so, you
12:51
know, that is really key, is it really having a handle on your
12:55
data? And if you have a lot of different systems, either in a
12:59
bunch of different cloud systems, how much control do you
13:02
have over securing that? And do you have a sense of where all
13:07
the data is so that if there is an incident, can you quickly
13:10
identify? And so just kind of talking them through that and
13:15
why it's important to know that because in the long run, it
13:18
just, it just helps them address issues quickly.
13:22
Melinda Lee: Right? Reminding, they could actually, they could
13:24
take your data, or the company's data, and then the downtime for
13:28
that or stress around that or loss of money around that can be
13:35
enough to be like, okay, Anastasia, what can you do to
13:38
help me?
13:39
Anastasia Durbala: Right, exactly. So just understanding
13:42
the big picture.
13:43
Melinda Lee: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. talking to them about the big
13:47
picture shared vision of what the company wants, and is there?
13:51
Has there been a time where there are people in the
13:55
executive level that do not agree on the way to go about
13:58
this? Or if it's not enough time?
14:02
Anastasia Durbala: Ah, sometimes they haven't. Prior to the full
14:08
assessment. They've heard you know, whispers or discussion of
14:15
things in the past from say it of areas that they need to work
14:20
on. But what what my team likes to do is come in and try to help
14:27
the executive level if they weren't understanding that
14:29
before, what does it mean for them bottom line, because
14:33
there's only so much money the company has and so they do have
14:36
to allocate budgets. And so, you know, one of the things is, can
14:42
the report we provide, help them with their budgeting process,
14:46
you know, kind of prioritise? Are these things we need to fix
14:51
this quarter or these things we need to fix in this year is this
14:54
sort of a three to five year project and what is what is the
14:59
risk factor along the way, you know, because because sometimes
15:04
a cyber incident has more than just, oh, you can't access the
15:09
data. I mean, does it mean your whole company's down for a day?
15:13
What does that mean bottom line? For your production? Are you?
15:18
Are you a company that produces a product and your, your product
15:24
that you produce is the key element to another industry? And
15:28
if you're down for a day or two, does that actually affect a
15:31
completely different industry because they can't get the
15:34
supply? Issue, you know that now they suddenly have a supply
15:39
chain issue, because you're not able to produce the product that
15:42
they need. So sometimes it's bigger than just us and our
15:46
company. You know, what, what does downtime with us mean, in
15:53
our business, and also in relation to either our customers
15:56
or associates? That kind of thing?
15:58
Melinda Lee: Hmm, okay, got it. So the they've got to think
16:01
bigger to in turn, yeah, yeah, you're pitching to them, Hey,
16:06
this is going to affect your bottom line. So you're speaking
16:09
their language, in terms of bottom line, but then you're
16:12
also expanding their perspective is not just about you, but it's
16:17
also your potential partners and potential affiliates, and all
16:20
those other people that are also going to be affected by and add
16:24
to their bottom line. When
16:25
Anastasia Durbala: Correct? Yeah, you're kind of your
16:27
business continuity, it plays into that. Right. Right. Right.
16:31
Melinda Lee: And do you think that have you found that the
16:35
bottom line? And is that the only thing that they that
16:39
resonates with them? Like you said, it's also the continuity?
16:43
What else have you found that also resonates with these execs,
16:47
and what communication
16:51
Anastasia Durbala: their responsibility to their clients,
16:56
their investors, the, you know, they also have proprietary data
17:02
that they want to protect? What makes them unique from
17:05
competitors, they need to be concerned about protecting that.
17:10
So there's a lot of factors that are important, I would say, it's
17:14
not just one element. And you know, it's even their employees,
17:19
you know, some some firms, especially smaller firms,
17:23
they're very engaged with other employees, and no, all of them
17:27
on a personal basis. And so, you know, it's, it's just different
17:32
priorities for for businesses, they have a variety of of
17:37
priorities that all need to be addressed. And so how do they
17:40
balance that?
17:44
Melinda Lee: Awesome. So it sounds like you so you work with
17:47
both the departments, the individuals in the department,
17:52
and also the executives who have brought you in?
17:56
Anastasia Durbala: Yeah, yeah, correct. Yeah, a lot of times,
17:59
it just starts with, if I'm doing an assessment, setting up
18:04
an interview schedule, where I'll interview folks from all
18:08
different levels in the company in different departments, you
18:11
know, there's varieties of data that are important in a company,
18:16
certainly the client data, or product data, depending on the
18:21
business model is very important. But also in the
18:24
accounting department that financial information is super
18:27
important. That's also a very key area where folks are trying
18:31
to always attack is they want to know who the CFO is, or the
18:35
bookkeeper. And then HR is very important to that's, that's a
18:38
lot of secure, personally identifying information
18:42
associated with the employees. And so that's, that's important
18:48
to protect that as well.
18:52
Melinda Lee: Wow. And have you noticed that you needed to adapt
18:56
to the different personalities or departments? Your
19:01
communication style?
19:04
Anastasia Durbala: Yeah, it just depends on more, I wouldn't say
19:07
there was. particular departments have particular
19:10
personalities, I think it's a individual basis. And so, you
19:16
know, after a while, you just kind of get used to you can tell
19:21
if someone feels more open, or if they are hesitant, maybe
19:27
they're not giving you full open answers. And so you just try to
19:30
help encourage them to talk so that you can really get an idea
19:37
of the of the picture of the of the department and learn more
19:41
about where the data is and how they're how they're protecting
19:45
it.
19:45
Melinda Lee: And so earlier we talked about when you notice
19:48
someone is not open there, they're short answers, or they
19:52
might just show you a little bit here and there and then and you
19:55
have to take a little bit more time to ask them questions to
19:58
reassure them that you're not a threat. How can you tell if
20:01
someone is open?
20:04
Anastasia Durbala: They're very forthcoming with the
20:06
information, you don't really have additional questions, it's
20:12
very clear what they're presenting. And you know, it's
20:19
pretty, it's straightforward in the sense of, you're getting a
20:23
clearer picture from them, what where the data is? And what is
20:28
going on with their role and everything?
20:32
Melinda Lee: What about any body language? Do you notice the
20:34
difference?
20:36
Anastasia Durbala: Well, I think there's their standard. If I
20:40
mean, it's a little harder on, you know, we've all had to pivot
20:44
to zoom. So sometimes people aren't on camera, that's a
20:49
little trickier. If they are on camera, are they constantly
20:53
distracted, you know, sometimes interview might be extended,
21:01
whereas if we could just focus for, you know, 510 minutes, we
21:05
can get this through this faster, and you can move on to
21:08
your next meeting, I understand folks are busy on different
21:12
levels. And so you really don't want to waste their time. But
21:15
it's it. That would be you know, sometimes body language,
21:19
somebody might seem a little distracted. But I would say
21:21
that's pretty rare. For the most part, where we come in, people
21:26
have been briefed a little bit, I just remind them why I'm
21:29
there. And, you know, we just kind of try to get to the, to
21:34
the meat of it. And so it's really just having them tell me
21:39
a little bit about their background, and they kind of
21:41
dive into what they do on a daily basis, and then follow up
21:44
with some specific questions. I think that style tends to put
21:50
people a little more at ease, then. Where is this? What is
21:54
this? Yeah, that whole thing. Whereas if they're driving the
22:00
conversation a little bit more it, I think it helps put folks
22:05
at ease. Right. And then if I if I can, that way, if I'm
22:09
listening to that I can also pick up on, you know, where do I
22:12
need follow up?
22:14
Melinda Lee: Yeah, cuz we can easily if we want the
22:16
information, I mean, we just want it now we're like, where's
22:18
this can we get Give me this. And then suddenly, people will
22:22
feel a little bit. Yeah, micromanage or overshadows or
22:27
looking over my shoulder bombarded, it's just a little
22:30
too intense. Yeah, and then, but for, um, for us, we need to get
22:35
things done. And that's just a direct way of getting the
22:38
information. But then sometimes we need to take a break or take
22:41
a step back and think about the other person, especially if
22:45
they're not accustomed to someone coming in asking you for
22:48
information. And so you want to be sensitive, and look at it
22:51
from there, and then give them more of the, even though it's
22:54
going to take you or us some time, as a consultant, you want
22:59
to be wary about where they're at, and give them the power to,
23:03
to give you the information or take the time and ask them the
23:06
questions versus tell them asking questions about what this
23:12
could mean, or what is what is this doing? Or what is, you
23:16
know, how is this impacting, you know, type of thing? Questions
23:20
like that. And so, yeah, and,
23:22
Anastasia Durbala: and also asking questions, like, what
23:25
keeps you awake at night? You know, because sometimes that's a
23:29
really, that's very insightful, you know, that we can talk about
23:35
that, you know, what, why, why do you suppose that is, or it
23:40
also reinforces, you know, a note that I took earlier, it's
23:45
like, oh, okay, I see why they have that as something that
23:48
concerns them. So I think that that's good, too.
23:52
Melinda Lee: And so yeah, like asking them what keeps you up at
23:55
night? That's like, everybody's gonna go on.
23:57
Anastasia Durbala: And we all have we all have something. So I
23:59
do have to say information security, but
24:05
Melinda Lee: Right, right. That's awesome. I love your your
24:09
insight and expertise on how to communicate as a consultant with
24:14
solutions. But how do you even with as a consultant with
24:17
solutions, how do you guide people? guide people along the
24:23
path to one path, like the people that are in the
24:26
department is even up to all the executive levels and you're
24:30
using different approaches and different communication?
24:35
Anastasia Durbala: Yeah, I mean, typically, I like to have you
24:40
know, once we've finished an assessment, we have a report
24:43
with findings. It's important to review those findings with the
24:47
client. Clarify, you know, before we finalise a report, we
24:52
want to make sure did we miss here something perhaps something
24:55
that we identified as an issue really isn't an issue or is has
25:00
been addressed since we spoke to the, to the that department or
25:03
the a couple of different people that the issue came up. And so
25:07
that's important, it gives them an opportunity to kind of give
25:11
some feedback on that. And then also just answer questions along
25:16
the way. And if there is and help them prioritise, like, what
25:21
does it mean, if there's a finding in this area? What does
25:25
that mean of the big picture of the company or of the potential
25:29
risk or threat to you? What does it mean, if you, you know, take
25:35
a particular action? Does it address two of these risks
25:40
listed? Or does it identify one? And then, you know, you can
25:45
figure out the client, the managers can figure out from
25:50
their standpoint, you know, what can they afford? Do they do they
25:54
need to plan it, again, more of a strategic budgeting approach?
26:00
Or is there certain elements that can take care of in the
26:04
shorter term, and some things may be important enough that
26:10
they should be addressed on the shorter term, but maybe they
26:14
just, they, it's just not a choice they can make at the
26:16
moment. So they also have an option to have assumed risks.
26:20
And every business has elements of assumed risk. And so that's,
26:26
that's always an option as well. But just trying to really help
26:32
the client understand what, what different choices could be.
26:36
Right? Yeah. And then they're very comfortable with, you know,
26:40
their decisions that they make.
26:42
Melinda Lee: Right, right. Yeah, being mindful. So you're helping
26:45
these organisational leaders just hey, this is what's here.
26:48
This is an assessment that we add, even with the assessment,
26:50
you got all the data from the assessment even with that, you
26:53
want to clarify with them? Is this correct? Is this still
26:56
valid? Did we get this correctly? So ensuring that the
27:01
data that you got is still valid still correct? Do they agree? Do
27:04
they disagree? Are there things that we need to change? And then
27:07
even after that, then there's more questions about once they
27:11
get this data, what do we want to do with this data? And asking
27:14
all the right questions about potential risk. And I love how
27:17
you said potential risk, a potential risk B. And then there
27:22
may be even a C and then even if there might be something that
27:26
they need to do now, but at least you help them to ask all
27:29
the right questions to help them to be clear about the risks and
27:34
assume risks, and at least they're clear about it versus
27:38
that's what you would do. I mean, that versus not even know
27:40
anything, right? But like for me, I have all this, the the
27:45
potential risks, and then therefore what happens, right,
27:47
someone needed to come into my world and say, Hey, there's some
27:50
risk here. And then if you don't, if you don't address it,
27:52
this is what's going to happen. And so this is what you do for
27:55
organisations. Better to take a look at it, even if it's
27:59
uncomfortable, to take a look at it and not avoid it. And the net
28:05
Yeah,
28:05
Anastasia Durbala: I mean, better to understand or be open
28:08
to, you only know what you know, only as good as the information
28:12
you receive.
28:14
Melinda Lee: Right, right. Right. Right. Right. And not
28:17
avoid it and talk to someone like you to to take a look at
28:21
what is really here, the reality of it all. And then what can we
28:24
do about it? And how much is yes. Awesome. Thank you so much.
28:31
This is so valuable and informative, I think for all
28:35
project managers, who even if it's not cybersecurity, but I
28:39
think that the key takeaway was just managing different people
28:44
and communicating with different people being more of a question,
28:48
curiosity, asking questions versus tell people what to do. I
28:53
think in all projects, I think those are some key things that
28:57
people can take away and sorry, yeah. Is there anything that
29:01
you'd like to leave the audience one thing?
29:05
Anastasia Durbala: I don't think so. Well, going back to your
29:07
mindfulness comment, just every we're always bombarded with so
29:12
many different things during the day. You know, there's social
29:17
media, there's TV, there's news, and just take a break, take a
29:25
breather, you know, get up, take a walk, get away from your
29:29
computer for a moment, come back. Take a deep breath before
29:33
you dive in and address your emails and in sometimes that
29:38
just helps you not be sucked in to say a potential phishing, or
29:46
email scam, that kind of thing. Huh?
29:49
Melinda Lee: So by taking a break you you believe that it
29:52
could give us more clarity and not get sucked into some of the
29:57
it can be just a physical emotional response because we're
29:59
taught Tired,
30:01
Anastasia Durbala: right? Or we haven't had our morning coffee?
30:03
Oh, no, there's a, there's a crisis in the account and an
30:07
accounting department. And so, you know, maybe if we just take
30:14
a deep breath, and All right, we're ready to address the issue
30:19
that had we remember, okay, I don't have to respond
30:23
immediately to this email, I can instead reach out in a different
30:26
way, just to confirm that the issue is really real.
30:30
Melinda Lee: It's happened it is real when people and employees
30:34
get these emails for the or for the organisation, or they're
30:37
asking money from the organ to you know, you, if you especially
30:41
you're in finance, you can direct or Tony, you can direct
30:43
wire transfer. It's and then the money's gone.
30:47
Anastasia Durbala: Yeah, everything is the stakes are
30:49
always high. And with the incidents happen, they've tried
30:53
to raise the stakes even higher. And so that's why it's important
30:58
for us to remember to just take a pause.
31:03
Melinda Lee: Yeah, I agree. Because we're over. Everyone's
31:06
tired. We're tired. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, because we're
31:09
overworked. And so taking the pause and then resetting and
31:13
then looking at it with fresh eyes, and then communicating
31:17
what you need. With the people. The Right, exactly. Yeah,
31:22
exactly. That's awesome. Thank you so much, Anastasia. It was a
31:27
pleasure. Welcome. It's
31:28
Anastasia Durbala: a pleasure speaking with you, Melinda. Love
31:31
being in
31:31
Melinda Lee: the cyber world. It's so fascinating, especially
31:34
with all that's happening, and there's constant change. So it's
31:36
great to get all the latest information from you and what we
31:39
could do about it.
31:41
Anastasia Durbala: Great. Excellent.
31:42
Melinda Lee: Thank you so much. Take care. All right. Bye bye.