Latest / Recovering Out Loud / From Homeless Addict to Treatment Center Director: The Redemption Story of Allen Kharlip

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From Homeless Addict to Treatment Center Director: The Redemption Story of Allen Kharlip · Recovering Out Loud

0:23
How's it going, brother? How's it going?
0:25
Thanks so much for coming down, man.
0:27
I know you're a busy guy and consumes your life.
0:29
So right now you're you're a counselor at treatment center in
0:34
Toronto, a rehab center, right? What's that like?
0:37
Well, I'm actually the clinical supervisor.
0:39
Oh. OK.
0:40
Yeah, I'm a clinical supervisor. Yeah, the facility.
0:42
So what's that like? I mean, it's, it can be chaotic
0:47
at times. You know, it's definitely an
0:50
environment where, you know, it's great because, you know,
0:54
organically, you know, you see the transition and, and people
0:58
that come in, you know, so broken, hopeless, don't really
1:03
know where to, where to start, where to begin and, and just
1:07
come in there and, and you know, and to be able to sort of be a
1:10
part of that whole process for, for an individual, you know,
1:14
there's, there's, there's nothing like it, right?
1:16
You know, to see somebody get to a place of feeling, well, you
1:19
know, to start building their self esteem back up, you know,
1:22
feeling like they have some sense of purpose in their life,
1:26
feeling like, you know, this, this comes back, you know,
1:30
because drugs and alcohol RIP this out, right, no matter what,
1:34
right. So that, you know, that process
1:37
is, is really, really amazing to see.
1:40
So, you know, I, I get to see that on a daily basis.
1:43
You know, obviously I, I manage the clinical team and the
1:46
nursing team and the sales team. So I have my hand in a lot of
1:50
different, you know, avenues. But I'm grateful, you know, for
1:55
that, for that opportunity because seven years ago I, I
2:00
remember saying that I wish for this right?
2:03
And when I think about, you know, how sometimes how hard
2:08
days are and how, how I look at responsibility today as a
2:12
privilege, not a burden, and think back like, yeah, you know,
2:16
I I really, I really wish for this seven years ago.
2:19
And and I, you know, I didn't have a responsible bone in my
2:23
body back in, in addiction and and alcoholism, right?
2:26
There was no such thing as responsibility.
2:28
I didn't show up for anybody. You know, you know, what's funny
2:31
is I just assumed your job title.
2:34
I do that a lot with people. And I'm like, you know, yeah,
2:37
you're this because I don't know, I just had this.
2:39
Nobody even told me that, right? I just preconceived notion.
2:42
But instead of me telling your story and telling you who you
2:44
are, why don't you, why don't you kick us off with, I mean,
2:47
that was beautiful what you said.
2:48
I love, I love hearing that side because there's a lot of
2:50
darkness in addiction too, right?
2:52
So it's nice that you get to be a part of of the beautiful side
2:54
of it too, right. So tell us a little bit about
2:56
yourself, what it was like, what happened, what you're like now.
2:58
Yeah, absolutely. The old, the old story.
3:01
So I struggled for a lot of years.
3:04
You know, I, I, I talk about this often more than not.
3:07
You know, drugs and alcohol were exposed to me at a very, very
3:12
early age and, you know, family dynamic.
3:15
It was a big piece. And you know, I, you know, I
3:20
grew up in in Toronto and you know, over the course of my
3:24
young life, I saw a lot of things that, you know, no, no
3:28
kids should really see growing up.
3:30
And you know, that dynamic of chaos, you know, that's, that's
3:39
really the the word. I can, I can see it because if
3:42
you looked on thing, if you looked at things from the
3:44
outside, you know, I was, I was born in a very, very privileged
3:48
home. Pragmatically, all my needs were
3:51
taken care of. You know, I was fortunate that
3:54
my mom and dad were very well off as I got older and, you
3:59
know, so I, I had everything that I needed.
4:01
But, you know, addiction runs in my family and, you know, my
4:06
brother was, you know, off to the races at at a very early
4:09
age. So, you know, I think social
4:12
crowds played a big part and, you know, I, I really wanted to
4:17
sort of emulate that for some reason growing up, you know, my
4:19
mom and dad weren't around too much.
4:21
They were travelling or working. My dad was never really around.
4:24
He was gone 3 weeks out of the month and come back for a week
4:27
and, and go. And I didn't really have that
4:31
strong of a relationship with him.
4:32
He, he was more, you know, close with my, with my brother who
4:36
would go with him and travel. And you know, my dad tried to
4:38
help him for so, so many years, right.
4:40
So, you know, but on paper everything was good, checked
4:46
out, everything checked out right, checking the boxes.
4:49
So, you know, and at that time, I don't think, you know, even
4:53
though I had these like thoughts of like never feeling good
4:56
enough and, you know, not really feeling like I was adequate, you
5:00
know, maybe because I wasn't really focused on too, too much.
5:03
It was a lot of the, you know, situations or a lot of the focus
5:07
was on, you know, my brother and his addiction, right?
5:09
And boy, did I use that excuse when that people asked me why I
5:12
wanted to use, right. I used every excuse in the book.
5:14
But anyways, things, things, you know, growing up were, were,
5:18
were chaotic at times, right? So, you know, I got through
5:21
elementary school made, you know, was very social.
5:24
I started to really feel confident in that component
5:27
anyways. And then I went to high school
5:29
and I was one of those kids that I couldn't get into the high
5:32
school that I wanted to because my grades weren't as good.
5:35
So I was one of those kids that was, I guess you can say,
5:38
fortunate or unfortunately, I went to grade 9.
5:41
So when I went to grade 9, they just started the high school.
5:44
So it was the first year of the actual high school.
5:46
So there wasn't too, too many people there.
5:48
And that that was kind of a weird experience for me.
5:50
I don't know. I didn't really like the people
5:52
that I was with. So that was a really tough year
5:54
for me socially. But then I ended up going to a
5:56
new school in grade 10. And, you know, I remember going
5:59
there and kind of feeling like an outcast because everybody
6:01
kind of knew each other already. Like, nobody goes to high school
6:04
in grade 10. Everyone comes from another
6:06
grade 9 or they come up from the elementary side of things,
6:08
right? So it was kind of, I didn't
6:09
really fit in too, too well until, until I was in grade 12.
6:13
And, you know, that's when, you know, alcohol started to play a
6:16
little bit of of a factor because I wanted to, you know,
6:18
fit in with some of the social crowd and the crew.
6:21
And it wasn't until so I did well in in high school, but it
6:24
wasn't until university where, you know, I was able to sort of
6:27
be on my own, right. Because, you know, my parents,
6:30
even though they weren't around, they were very involved in how I
6:33
was doing in school. You know, they from afar, right?
6:35
I didn't see them a lot physically, but you know,
6:37
financially they were there and, you know, they would always call
6:40
and ask like how things are going.
6:41
So, you know, there was a, there was a little bit of like a
6:44
micromanaging component there, right?
6:45
So when I went to university, I mean, I was all alone and I was
6:49
with some of my buddies. And that's when, you know,
6:51
things started to really come into motion, right?
6:54
It was alcohol for a while, then, you know, sort of became
6:57
cocaine. And I was doing it
6:58
recreationally every maybe couple months here and there,
7:01
you know, just kind of enjoying my time, right?
7:03
And I remember when I first hit that cocaine line I bought, you
7:07
know, I want to feel like this for the rest of my life.
7:09
Same. I want to feel like this for the
7:11
rest of my my life and everything that I, you know, had
7:15
a distorted sort of thought or like slack of confidence, it all
7:19
just went away. The anxiety went away, the
7:22
feeling, you know, inadequate, the inadequacy went away.
7:26
You know, when I felt like I was like myself, right?
7:28
And I thought to myself at that time, I don't understand why
7:30
people have a problem with this. This is great.
7:32
This is the best thing because I always associated hardcore drugs
7:35
with like, you know what you see people in the street and just
7:38
where it takes you, right? The guy under the bridge, right?
7:40
And you know, so when I did that, I was like, wow, like this
7:44
is this is amazing, right? So, you know, my first couple
7:47
years of university, I, I did extremely well, very good grades
7:51
and then I was introduced to the party scene and learning how to,
7:55
you know, plan events and be a promoter, right?
7:58
I started a bunch of parties there with a couple guys and,
8:01
you know, we started booking DJs and getting people into the into
8:04
golf, really making the town like a good atmosphere because
8:07
that's what we wanted to do, right?
8:08
And that's when I really started to enthrall myself in the scene
8:14
of things, right? So, you know, I always tell
8:17
people like, you know, what my sense or realm of normalcy is
8:21
could be different from you, but at some point we start to adapt
8:27
to that normalcy. So if I'm put in a situation
8:29
where things are really, really uncomfortable, but there's I
8:32
don't have an option or I don't think I have an option at that
8:36
time to make a change, I'm going to adapt.
8:39
And it's starting to become a normal thing.
8:41
So going out and partying and hosting events and making
8:44
everybody feel like they're having an amazing time was
8:47
normal for me. My baseline, right?
8:50
And that was what was important to me, right?
8:51
That's where my values lined up with at that time because I
8:54
wanted people to recognize and know what you know, know who I
8:57
am and know who I could be and everything that I thought that I
9:01
wanted to be, you know, and you know, so that, you know, that
9:04
really, really took off for me. And you know, I, I finished
9:07
school, I got a girlfriend out there.
9:09
So even though when I was done and I went back to Toronto and
9:13
went back to my parents house, that reality, I just wanted to
9:17
keep that, that, that, that lifestyle, you know, So I would
9:20
go back and forth all the time. And, you know, and I really
9:23
started to do the same thing that I was doing out there and
9:26
in the Toronto scene and got connected with some my, my, me
9:29
and my best friend. We started promoting business
9:31
and we started hosting events and working with, you know,
9:35
other guys in the industry. And that really became my, my
9:38
sense of normalcy. So, you know, it was basically
9:40
like, you know, I love to party, I'm good at it.
9:44
And here's some money to do it, you know, and, and here's some
9:47
drugs that are all around you all the time at that point or
9:51
that age, it's like I'm, I'm living, I'm living the life
9:55
here, you know, or so I thought. And so, you know, I did that for
9:59
a bunch of years. And you can see over that time,
10:02
the progression of my drug and alcohol use became really,
10:07
really bad, especially the cocaine.
10:10
And but again, adaptation, normalcy, that was normal for me
10:16
because I was surrounded by people that were doing it too.
10:19
And that became my normal, right?
10:22
So when you enter this like this, this world or like this
10:26
vision and you're like so enthralled at it, it's like
10:28
everything seems to be OK, right?
10:31
If you're in a, you know, abusive relationship with
10:33
somebody and you and you stick around for so long, your brain
10:37
starts to adapt to it and then you think that this is normal.
10:40
You don't know anything else, right?
10:41
So going back to that, so I started, I started doing, doing
10:47
the, the club scene and, and partying and got big and you
10:49
know, with that and did that for a while.
10:51
And, you know, my drug use started to become really, really
10:53
bad. And when I was 25 years old,
10:56
kind of on the cusp of, of, of that whole scene, my brother
11:02
died of an overdose and, and my dad found him, you know, at the
11:09
house. And, you know, my dad was, so I
11:11
thought the poor man, like he, he, you know, was worked so, so
11:15
hard at his in his life to become who he, he became a very
11:18
successful person, immigrated from Russia, you know, didn't
11:21
have a $1212.00 in his pocket when he came.
11:24
And, you know, he became so successful at his work and he
11:27
just wanted to do anything he could to, you know, to help him.
11:30
And, you know, was a losing battle for him, unfortunately.
11:33
And, and that was a tough pill to swallow.
11:35
And you know, so I know at this point, you know, I still like
11:41
what I'm doing, but I know it's, it's, it's, you know, seeing
11:45
that it not that it, it shook me because he was into other
11:50
things, other substances, but I never thought I was going to
11:53
take, take myself there, right. And, you know, so I remember at
11:57
his funeral, you know, my mom going to me like, hey, like, you
12:01
know, I really hope you, you, you, you don't go down that same
12:04
path. And I look to stray in the face
12:05
and I, and I said, I already know I'm down that path, but I
12:08
won't, you know, and it was a bold faced lie, you know, but
12:12
still in my mind, I'm justifying that I'm OK and I'm OK.
12:17
So anyway, so I, you know, going to my first stint to treatment
12:20
when I'm 27 because I start to realize I got a problem here.
12:23
And, you know, things in my life start becoming unmanageable.
12:26
And it was a slow sort of the slow burn, the slow burn, right?
12:29
And I, I go to treatment and we're like not waste wasting my
12:40
time, but just, I wasn't ready, you know, and I wasn't ready.
12:43
And what do I do? I, I come out of treatment and
12:47
I'm throwing a boat cruise that night with, with a bunch of
12:50
friends. We got out, we got, I can't
12:51
remember who the DJ was, but we had some DJ from from Europe
12:55
coming to do this party. And I miss the whole planning of
12:59
it become a rehab. So I come out two days later,
13:03
I'm back, back to doing what I'm doing right away, right?
13:05
Instantaneous. Because you see, I associated
13:08
knowledge and theoretical concepts with what recovery is.
13:12
If I can just understand what they're saying to me and
13:14
delivering that message, I'm good.
13:17
I can figure it out. I can use successfully, right?
13:20
You know, the, the, the, the tale and the story that we tell
13:22
ourselves over and over, right? And boy, was I wrong.
13:25
But, you know, anyway, in that mindset, that's, that's where I
13:28
was. So yeah, you know, I struggled
13:30
for, for a couple years and, you know, I, I meet, I meet a girl,
13:35
I should say, you know, when I was 25 and we start, you know,
13:37
dating. And, you know, I, I, I sell her
13:40
this like real good perspective on who I am, like version of you
13:44
version of me. Do you know who do you know who
13:46
do you know who I think I am, right.
13:48
And I'm really, really selling it because I can sell, you know,
13:51
I'm a good talker. I'm a good, I'm a good, you
13:52
know, and show people things are always good, right?
13:56
Crack a smile on my face, deflect with humor, all of the
13:59
masks and all of the facets that we sort of uncover and carry on
14:02
and carry through, right? So I meet her, you know, we
14:05
start dating, we're together for a couple years.
14:07
And, you know, throughout that time, she really, really voices
14:11
a concern about my, my, my drug use because I'm out all night
14:14
partying and not coming back till the next day or being with
14:18
her leaving my room and going across the street at like 5:00
14:21
in the morning and, you know, continuing on.
14:23
So she, she raises concern and she's like, like, I can't be
14:26
with somebody like this, you know, and you know, again, like
14:29
in my most vulnerable state, I guess, you know, when you're,
14:33
when you're coming down, you know, you're selling, you're
14:36
selling yourself, you're selling yourself on the version of who
14:38
you're going to be. And please, I promise I'm not
14:41
going to do it again. And all of those things, right?
14:43
So, you know, when I look back on this now, I, I think to
14:46
myself, that's, that's, that's powerlessness right there,
14:49
right? Because even though every single
14:52
fiber of my intention is, is believing what I'm saying, my
14:56
actions can't back it up, right? We're judged by our, by our
15:01
actions, not our intentions. So, you know, here I am trying
15:04
to sell her on this, this idea and this version of who I am.
15:08
So she gets pregnant and you know, I tell myself that time
15:14
like that, that's it. Like this is a sign from God and
15:18
and This is why I was meant to be clean and sober, but I can't,
15:22
I don't really understand or conceptually and execute like
15:28
like action wise understand what it is that I'm what I have to do
15:32
here, right? I think I can just moderate or I
15:34
think I can just go to rehab again, you know, and, and I and
15:38
I can figure out a way to just balance this and, and and drink
15:42
and use like a normal person, right?
15:43
Like this is kind of like shortcut almost.
15:45
It's a shortcut I love. I love the.
15:47
I love the shortcut. Me too.
15:49
I love the shortcut, you know, whatever it is, just I'll do
15:53
anything but what you're presenting to me, right?
15:55
So anyway, so you know, I go to treatment a couple more times
15:58
and you know, you know, I come back and you know, she gives
16:01
birth and to to our daughter, She was born on July 30th, 2013,
16:06
right? I'm 27 at the time.
16:08
And I think I mentioned this when I spoke last week.
16:11
It was like, you know, she's born and you know, the first
16:15
thing that I go do after she's born as I hold her and then and
16:18
I tell him, like my daughter's mom, that I'm going to go to
16:20
sleep because I'm tired and I go pick up right away.
16:24
And that's my first day of being a father.
16:27
What that's what that was, was, was was using in in a condo by
16:31
myself, supposed to be the fucking best day of my life, you
16:35
know, and being there for somebody.
16:36
But you know, self centeredness, selfishness, instant
16:39
gratification, entitlement, it's all about me, right?
16:42
And so she's born and you know, and you know, I'm going through
16:47
the battles and you know, we're fighting a lot and you know, it
16:50
just, it doesn't end up working out.
16:51
So I, I go to treatment a couple years later and, and she breaks
16:54
up with me and, you know, I again, you know, just not
16:59
willing or ready to, to stop because I'm so, so used to this
17:06
crutch that I think thought that I was needed, you know, because
17:11
as bad as the consequences were becoming, I was comfortable in
17:19
that chaos. I was comfortable in the
17:22
familiarity of the wreckage and I'm not comfortable in the
17:28
unfamiliarity, even though people are like, hey, like, you
17:32
know, come, come to this side of things way better.
17:34
It's way better, you know, like you got a good life ahead of
17:37
you. You just don't know it.
17:38
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I, I, I, I see what you're
17:41
saying, but I'm, I'm just going to stay over here in this
17:44
corner, right? And keep suffering, right.
17:46
And, you know, so you know, I, I ended up, you know, getting
17:51
addicted to, to opiates, you know, because the, the cocaine
17:55
and was, was putting him into some crazy levels of psychosis
17:59
and you know, all of those things.
18:01
So I, you know, one day I do some, some Percocets.
18:05
I don't know if I can talk about some sort of Percocets.
18:08
And, you know, Percocet turned into oxys and, you know, turn
18:10
into other things. And, you know, before you know
18:13
it, a couple years down the road and here I am, you know, using
18:16
opiates every day and I'm, you know, waking up and can't
18:19
function normal without them. And man, whatever what a
18:23
powerless feeling that is, you know, where it's like I have to,
18:29
you know, maintain. It's not even getting high
18:31
anymore. It's maintaining.
18:33
It's just it's existing. It's existing, not living,
18:38
right. And you know, so, you know, my
18:42
parents and she obviously raises concerns.
18:45
She tells them and my parents find out and I'm back going back
18:49
and forth and you know, recovery, not recovery, going to
18:52
meetings, not going to meetings, going to rehab, you know, doing
18:55
really, I always did well because again, I knew what was
18:59
expected of me and anything that I did, I was very compliant,
19:03
right, And not, not surrendering.
19:05
There's a big difference between compliance and surrender, right?
19:08
And you know, I was, I call it, you know what I call it, I call
19:11
it conditional surrender. I will do this if I will do
19:16
this, if I see this happening, right?
19:19
Conditional surrender. It's not, it's not.
19:21
It's not surrender. Like surrendering on my terms.
19:23
It's surrendering on my terms and my will.
19:25
You know what I'm saying? So, so you know, here is here is
19:28
the plan. So I'm going to do these things
19:31
and, and, and this is what I'm going to get out of it, right?
19:34
And it's just, it's a recipe for exhausters because, you know,
19:37
they always say it in, in, in, you know, the fellowship, like
19:40
having expectations is like premeditated resentment, right?
19:44
So, so again, this is what I'm doing.
19:46
And you know, finally, I, you know, they've, everybody's had
19:50
enough of me. They've had enough of me.
19:53
And I go out to Vancouver Island and, and go to go treatment.
19:57
I think it's like my my 4th or 5th time.
20:00
And treatment. And, you know, I'm there for,
20:03
you know, I think 5 months, six months.
20:06
And they tell me, hey, like you, you shouldn't go back to
20:09
Toronto. You should live out here for a
20:11
while, get some foundation under your belt.
20:13
But I'm like, yeah, like, I guess, but I'm, I'm fighting it.
20:16
And you know, my mom and dad, my dad's like, you have to stay out
20:19
there. There's no, you have no choice.
20:21
So I say OK, like, I guess, you know, I'm going to stay out
20:23
there. But I think that was really the
20:25
first time that I really, really, really tried and did
20:29
everything that was asked of me in the way, even though I felt
20:32
uncomfortable doing it and I didn't want to do it because I
20:35
know, I, I really was like, I, I feel like I, I, this is just not
20:38
going to go down the right path. And, you know, the last thing I
20:40
want to do is, you know, have my parents have no kids, right?
20:43
And you know, it's sad, it's sad, right?
20:46
But you know, so I, so I go, I do well, you know, I start
20:52
working out there and I'm living out there and I take a year.
20:57
Amazing thinking you're right. And you know, I, I thought that
21:02
my program was, was OK, you know, but again,
21:06
compartmentalization, right? It's like, it's like I was like,
21:12
you know, picture, picture you driving a car, brand new car,
21:16
shiny. It's beautiful.
21:19
It's got everything, all the bells and whistles and and
21:22
there's a crack in your windshield and someone's saying
21:25
to you, hey, there's a crack in your windshield.
21:28
Yeah, Look at my nice big ass car, black, you know, exterior
21:32
rims, everything. Yeah, but you got a crack in
21:34
your windshield. Yeah.
21:34
I just filled up the the car with gas.
21:36
It's got 24 inch rims on the tires.
21:39
It's got a surround sound system.
21:42
Yeah, but but your windshield's cracked, right.
21:44
So that compartmentalization. So I'm doing everything that I
21:48
need to be doing except I get into a relationship.
21:52
I get into a relationship with somebody that I was warned and
21:56
told not to because we're too new, too fragile, and we have
21:59
this, you know, connection. So I, I do it and something's
22:09
happened with, with, with that. And I, I relapse.
22:12
I relapse because of the pain of, of losing the connection
22:16
with this person that I think is like everything to me at the
22:19
time, because I got an extreme black and white thinking, you
22:23
know, I don't have it anymore. And, and my first sort of
22:27
solution is to go pick up. So, so where's my recovery?
22:31
Where's my foundation at? You know, I think that's great,
22:35
but it's not because there's cracks in it, right?
22:37
That compartmentalization to on that decision leads to that.
22:43
So obviously it wasn't my foundation wasn't, wasn't good,
22:47
right? So I relapse, you know, I, I go
22:50
back in for a couple weeks and I get the girl back and again,
22:56
please don't do it. Please don't do it.
22:57
But I got to listen. I got to learn the hard way.
22:59
So, you know, anyways, it ended up becoming a mess and I relapse
23:03
again. And then I'm out and about for
23:06
about four months on the streets in Vancouver, in on Vancouver
23:09
Island, on the streets, OK, nowhere to live.
23:13
My parents are done with me living with drug dealers, just
23:20
just not where I envisioned my life to be.
23:22
If you, you know, saw me my, my early years, I think in high
23:26
school and even a couple, first couple years at university.
23:28
But that's what ended up happening to me.
23:31
And you know, I had, I had a coat recovery coach out there
23:35
that, you know, God, God bless him, save my life.
23:38
And you know, after about 4-4 months of, of, of doing this,
23:44
this addiction thing, I was like, my, my, it was 150 lbs
23:50
scabbs all over my body. I look, I look brutal.
23:53
And this guy pulls me out and says, you're going to Vancouver
23:59
and go to the streaming center because it's different from all
24:01
the other ones. And it's not like the ones that
24:04
you've been to. And, you know, my willingness at
24:09
the time was, I mean, I just, I just wanted to die so broken, so
24:14
broken. So I get there, I'm doing the 10
24:18
day intro and I don't know, man, I, I go out there and I, and I
24:24
just as soon as I walked into that door, I'm like, something's
24:29
got to change here. You know, when it's like, OK,
24:32
like, you know, people have been leading the horse to water, but
24:37
I can't drink it now. It's time to drink it, you know,
24:42
and I get there and I don't know what it was, man.
24:45
It was, it was the energy and the culture and the people that
24:52
really, really saved me. And I was willing, I was
24:56
willing. So I, I, I complete there and
25:00
they tell me, they say, you know, at one point I thought,
25:04
OK, I'm going to do the 10 days and go back to Toronto.
25:06
But they're like, no chance of doing that.
25:08
Like you need to do this program fully, right?
25:10
So I go do it. It takes me 3 months.
25:13
It's a long term program. And in those three months
25:16
though, you, you know, you start going back to the fellowship and
25:20
you start going to, you know, meetings and you really build
25:22
connections with people and you really, you know, understand the
25:26
essence of what it means to help somebody, you know, help
25:29
somebody through their journey. Even when you're in the state
25:31
of, of, of shatterness and, and despair and vulnerability.
25:36
It's like, yeah, I don't care, Go help somebody else, go help
25:38
somebody else, go help somebody else, go help somebody else,
25:40
right? And that's what I did.
25:43
And I complete there. And, you know, they tell me,
25:45
well, where's your willingness? And I said, I'm willing to do
25:48
whatever it takes. Like, OK, well, you're going to
25:49
stay around here and you start volunteering your time here
25:52
because I think that you got a good story and a good message
25:55
and, you know, you've been through it.
25:56
So if you volunteer and you like it, maybe there's a job you're
26:00
opening for you. And you know, the first thought
26:02
I thought I said, yeah, I'm willing.
26:03
But again, conditional surrender, I'm not making, you
26:07
know, $14.00 an hour to, to, to do this like and try to counsel
26:11
people just got nothing to do with me.
26:13
I want to go back to, you know, what I was doing, right?
26:16
And where's your recovery at? Where's your willingness at
26:19
what? What did that stuff ever do for
26:22
you? Right?
26:23
It just got you back to the same places over and over again.
26:28
So I said, OK, I'll do it. And you know, slowly every time
26:32
I ended up getting a job and I start working with youth
26:36
initially, that was my first, my first real shot at right this
26:39
field. And you know, in that time, and
26:43
if I wasn't working, I was going to meetings every day.
26:48
They said get a service position.
26:49
I got a service position, say get a Home group, I got a Home
26:52
group. They said, you know, get a
26:53
sponsor that will will take you through it.
26:56
And that's what I did. And then when I got onto my step
26:59
9, I started sponsoring other guys.
27:03
And that's all I really did for the first couple years was work
27:06
and do recovery, because that's all I, I knew in that moment and
27:10
that's all I needed to do because that's what somebody
27:12
told me, right? So I started really building the
27:14
trust and the essence of purpose and just seeing other people and
27:18
their story and that where they came from and how well they did
27:21
and, you know, start going to medallions and, and, and all
27:24
these things, you know, 20 years, 25 years.
27:27
You know, I remember my, my, my third or fourth meeting, you
27:32
know, I'm, I'm, I'm hurting really, really bad.
27:34
I'm on ORTS and I'm there and some in the sky winds up
27:40
becoming one of my mentors and the guy that runs or, or started
27:44
the, the treatment center that I was at takes 40 years, takes 40
27:49
year. And I'm thinking to myself, I
27:52
had 40 years. I can't even get 40 minutes.
27:57
So you know, I'm there and I'm listening and you know, I come
28:00
up to him after and I say, like, how did you do this?
28:05
Like this is this is crazy. I can't believe that this this
28:10
you're 40 years sober. He says to me, he says, well,
28:14
it's simple. He's like, I live by two
28:16
principles. Don't make decisions based on
28:19
bad feelings and don't do things you can't talk about.
28:22
You do those two things, you're going to be OK.
28:25
And it's in that moment or in that sort of sequence, it seems
28:28
very, very, you know, simple. Obviously, as I, you know,
28:34
continue the recovery. Sometimes that's a difficult
28:36
thing to do right for, you know, but I did the best I could to
28:40
execute that. And I started working there and,
28:44
you know, all of all of this throughout this time, you know,
28:46
I, I look back on it and I'm in Vancouver and Vancouver Island
28:50
for about 6 years. And I'm going back and forth and
28:52
trying to be a dad for my, for my daughter the best way I
28:55
could. And even though it's so
28:56
difficult, you know, not to be around her or to be with her,
29:01
this was like my, my sacrifice that I needed to do because I'd
29:04
rather be someone that's there for her later in life than never
29:08
be there at all, you know? And you know, Jill's
29:12
institution's death, right? And it was hard.
29:16
So, you know, I started working there, I became a counselor
29:19
there and I actually, funny enough, started running the Co
29:22
parenting group there for guys that wanted to rebuild the
29:24
relationships with their kids and, and their spouses.
29:27
And you know, I over, over my time there was like, you know, I
29:31
saw a lot of families and a lot of people reconnect with, with
29:35
with their kids. And I was so happy for them
29:38
because I learned how to be happy for somebody else rather
29:40
than think about myself in the moment.
29:43
And I learned that from there. And, you know, they'd help me
29:48
really be a good dad and a good person and, and a present person
29:53
for when I came back here. So, you know, I got clean and
29:56
sober. I, you know, worked in, like I
29:58
said, for several six years and I went to meetings and
30:00
everything like that. And, you know, I eventually
30:02
ended up coming back here in May 2023 and, you know, connected
30:06
with Eric and he said, hey, you know, I got a job at my
30:10
treatment center. Do you want to be a part of it?
30:13
I said, yeah, absolutely. And I remember we spoke probably
30:16
whenever before. And I kept saying I'm moving
30:18
back. I'm moving back because even
30:20
though I felt really comfortable there again, like I do really
30:24
well-being comfortable in comfortability, right?
30:27
Like I always, always say to myself, like, I'll dazzle you
30:31
with my mediocrity because I'm. I'm OK, just like, you know,
30:38
having my head, my, my, my head above the water a little bit.
30:41
That's it. It's all I really need, right?
30:43
So I'm comfortable with that, right.
30:44
So, you know, that that opportunity and that, that job
30:47
in that field, like it opened up so much for me.
30:50
But, you know, I could have, I could have stayed there for
30:53
longer and been comfortable and all of that.
30:55
But I knew like in my heart, you know, after making an amends to,
30:59
to not not actually an physical amends to my daughter, but you
31:04
know, writing a letter and, and, and doing all those things that
31:06
I needed to be there for her. And I, I made the move.
31:10
I was in a three-year relationship with somebody.
31:13
You know, she was supposed to come and move back with me, but
31:16
she never ended up doing that because it was just too
31:18
difficult for her. And I understand, but you know,
31:21
I knew that that's what I had to do and where I had to be.
31:24
So I made the move back in May 2023.
31:29
And you know, the rest is really history.
31:31
The rest is really history, right?
31:33
And, you know, along the ways, I, I was able to really, you
31:36
know, meet so many, so many great people, so many good,
31:40
good, wholesome people that were, were broken, you know,
31:45
and, and you know, they were, they were really good people.
31:48
And, you know, some of them did really, really well and, and got
31:52
their lives back and, and a lot of them didn't.
31:54
And, you know, it's really hard to see and it's difficult to
31:56
see. And, you know, I think the thing
32:00
a lot of times the, the thing that sometimes we, we miss
32:03
within our, you know, actions is, you know, the impact that it
32:07
has on our family. And, you know, so when somebody
32:11
starts doing well and getting their life back, you know, the
32:14
family gets well and gets their life back too, you know, and
32:19
it's this like overall like organic, like changing and, and,
32:28
and I guess you can call it transformation.
32:32
Yeah, it's almost like a ripple effect.
32:34
Right. It's a ripple effect, yeah.
32:35
Your recovery kind of just starts to affect everybody, but
32:37
not at first, in my experience. It takes time, you know, it
32:40
takes time. You heal faster than than they
32:42
do. They have their own healing to
32:44
do. I remember like I was at a
32:45
somebody is a 2 year medallion and you know, the dad gets up
32:49
and he goes, hey, I trust you now.
32:54
Two years trust you coming in my house and, and, and, and, you
32:59
know, watering the the plants. I trust you coming inside my
33:03
house and having the keys to it, right.
33:05
It's a big deal. It is it's a big deal, right?
33:08
We don't, we don't, we don't think or look, look at those
33:10
things in retrospect because, you know, in retrospect it's
33:14
just like, oh, it's my family. They they should trust me.
33:16
They should give me the keys. They should I'm.
33:18
Doing better I'm. Doing better now, right?
33:20
And even when you're like in, in that, in that grips and that
33:23
cycle of addiction, like, you know, you think, you think
33:26
things are old, old to you, right?
33:28
Well, at least I did, right, you know, and, and that was my
33:30
perception, right? And it wasn't until everybody in
33:34
my life was gone where I couldn't blame anybody else
33:38
besides me, right? So when I, when I say like, you
33:42
know, seven years ago, I, I remember, I wish for this.
33:46
I, I did and I do. And man, my life today is, is,
33:50
is, it's hectic, but it's, it's great.
33:53
And you know, I, I, I definitely do a lot of things for myself
33:57
that I need to do it in order to keep that maintaining and
34:01
maintenance. But you know, if I, if I sat
34:03
here and I told you, you know, that my, my recovery has been
34:07
linear throughout my, my seven years and that I've been like,
34:11
you know, tapped in, I'm a liar. I'd be lying to you.
34:15
You know, I've struggled over the years and you know, today
34:19
my, my solution obviously is not drugs and alcohol, but my first
34:23
real like response to things is not drugs and alcohol.
34:27
The obsession is gone. But there's always other things
34:31
that can creep up, you know, whether whatever that is, right?
34:35
And, you know, you know, for me, I'm, I'm an all or nothing guy,
34:38
real, real hardcore type 3. If there was a type 4, that
34:41
would be me, you know, and you know, I, I got to watch myself
34:45
with, with other things, you know, like, because I have
34:48
struggled, you know, with gambling and I've struggled
34:51
with, you know, shopping and spending too much money.
34:53
And you know, again, like the, the, the, the perception of
34:58
like, I need to look good and beat this good, this person that
35:02
people can respect me, right? Like that, that, that, that
35:04
thinking can sometimes come back, right?
35:07
And depending on where I'm at spiritually and where my
35:09
condition is at, some days I look at that and weigh on that
35:12
more heavy than other rain. And I know that when that starts
35:15
to become more heavy and a sort of a more dominant perspective
35:19
in my life, that's when I know, OK, I got to tap back in.
35:22
I'm not in trouble yet, but I will be, you know, And you know,
35:27
the, the biggest thing I think I've learned over my time is,
35:31
you know, if it's not a big deal, I don't want it to become
35:34
a big deal, right? Because I don't want a little
35:37
thing to become a bigger thing. You know what I mean?
35:40
Yeah, 'cause it always starts as a little thing, right?
35:43
It's always not a big deal. And then it.
35:46
Yeah, I like that a lot, man. I, I resonated with a lot of
35:48
that. Thank you for sharing.
35:50
Yeah, that the first line thing. I hadn't thought about that in a
35:53
while. You know, that first line 'cause
35:55
I, you always, you come in and depending on, you know, who you
35:57
hang out with, what fellowship you go to, you hear a lot of
35:59
people, like, talk about that first drink and they fell in
36:02
love it. And that wasn't my experience
36:03
with alcohol, right? I was, you know, alcohol was
36:06
always there. It's a problem.
36:08
I don't drink today. I can't drink today.
36:09
I can't drink, but I choose not to.
36:11
But I can't just have one. But that was never my
36:14
experience. I had the experience with the
36:15
the stimulants where it was like, OK, you and you said it
36:18
allowed you to be you, right? And that was that.
36:22
My false perception too was like this first line, Oh, I'm finally
36:26
this guy. I want to be.
36:27
People are laughing at my jokes. I'm the center of attention.
36:30
You know, I can talk to girls. And you said too, it's I loved
36:33
it. It's like all these thoughts and
36:35
any anxieties and worries and tomorrow it just disappeared
36:38
right, right away. I can relate to that too.
36:40
It was a it was a good solution for a while for a bit, right
36:43
until it wasn't. How did you know you were ready
36:46
to come back to Toronto? That's I'm wondering that like,
36:48
how did you know? People.
36:51
Yeah, people, people that knew me for a while, people that were
36:56
had strong recovery, Yeah. Yeah, those people you could
36:59
count on and they they weren't, they weren't yes men or yes
37:02
women. Yeah, of course, because here's
37:04
the thing, man. Like, you know, when the
37:05
beginning of of this last run around with with recovery, like
37:10
my faith wasn't there and I really truly had to learn that
37:17
God works to other people. And that was like my higher
37:19
power, a collective group of people that have no object or no
37:24
subjective or emotional sort of, you know, hindsight thinking in
37:29
my decisions, right? I needed that, right.
37:32
So that was, that was what it was, right?
37:35
It was just, it was learning to trust what other people thought
37:38
and how other people, you know, perceive things, right.
37:41
And I obviously, you know, I did some writing around it and you
37:44
know, I would, you know, I was big into, like I was really big
37:47
into, into writing and doing, doing some written work to, to
37:50
really discover what like the solution was, right, like
37:52
journaling and, you know, just doing like 123 exercises in your
37:56
head. Stuff. 1 something like I, I had
37:58
to, I had to actually visually put it on paper because I could
38:01
see and, and, and, and also too, it was a healthy way of
38:05
processing how I'm feeling, you know, and being able to put it
38:07
out on paper. But you know, other people
38:11
really, you know, because I was scared.
38:14
I was scared because I was never able to, you know, collectively
38:18
put any, any sobriety time in Toronto.
38:21
And you know, every, everybody, you know, I'm gone for six years
38:24
and you know, every, everybody that I know back then is other,
38:28
you know, has families or doing other things or not around
38:32
anymore. You know, so when I came back, I
38:35
really, really like I was, I had a lot of fear.
38:38
You know, how was I going to like who, who am I going to hang
38:40
out with? Because I built such a strong
38:42
community of people out there, you know, that we're all in
38:46
recovery, like every single person I knew there was, was,
38:49
was in recovery. So I, when I came back here,
38:51
like I got like, you know, 4-4 friends of mine that I grew up
38:56
with since I was a kid, you know, that are, that are not in
38:59
recovery. You know, you know, some of them
39:02
still, you know, smoke weed here and there.
39:03
And, but you know, most of them, they're successful guys, right?
39:06
And you know, it, it was hard. It's it's hard to like, you
39:10
know, sometimes, you know, when I, when I'm, and even when I'm
39:13
with them, it's like, you know, I always go back sometimes to
39:16
like the what if, you know what, the what if, if I just would
39:18
have kept my head straight and where I would have been.
39:22
But I'll tell you, Anthony, like, you know, I'm so, so
39:26
grateful that I am an addict to a certain degree, if that makes
39:31
any sense, Of course, because you know, the, the journey and
39:35
being able to, you know, appreciate the journey along the
39:40
way. When I think about, you know,
39:41
when I, when I was telling that story about going into treatment
39:44
and volunteering, like in the moment, I'm like that.
39:47
I, what am I doing? What am I doing?
39:49
But, but I look back and I'm like, I'm so appreciative that I
39:52
just was willing to listen, right.
39:54
So I took that, that rationale with me everywhere I went.
39:59
So when it was time to go back and be a father in close
40:04
proximity and be a son, you know, to my mom and dad who are
40:08
getting old and. You know, we're just being
40:10
around for them more, you know? That's when I knew I was ready.
40:14
When you're not willing to wanting to leave, that's when
40:17
you know you're ready. You know, right?
40:21
So yeah, I got emotional when you were talking about going
40:25
into that last treatment center because I hadn't thought about
40:28
it. I hadn't had somebody kind of
40:30
explain it. I had that exact same experience
40:33
this last time, my third treatment center where I was so
40:36
broke into and, and I, I had the tools, you know, because I had
40:39
to put together some time. I knew what I had to do.
40:42
But I always say this, getting back into recovery is the
40:46
hardest thing for me. Staying out here is so much
40:49
easier than getting back in for me, for this addict and
40:52
alcoholic. I, you know, that's not
40:53
everybody's story, but it was so hard, man, to get back in here.
40:57
And when I went to that last streaming center, you know, I
40:59
always say this, there's a guy, Dave, Dave W, you know, 20 years
41:03
of sobriety. And all I remember about my
41:05
intake was he just looked at me. He said, son, welcome back to
41:08
recovery, you know, and I just started crying.
41:10
I was like, fuck, I made the right decision.
41:12
Thank God, Like finally, you know, it was, you know, luckily
41:16
only 5 or 6, probably a year of on and off, right, a year of
41:20
suffering, right? Because when you're in and out,
41:22
it's almost worse than just being out sometimes because you
41:24
know how good it could be. I don't know, it's kind of this
41:26
weird thing that happens. And so, you know, you brought me
41:31
back to that moment where I just walked in and I was like, fuck,
41:35
I, I looked at my, my wife dropped me off, I looked at her
41:37
and I'm just, I felt so bad, like I couldn't even feel
41:40
anything in the moment. But you know, those first couple
41:42
days when you start to get your feelings back, I don't know, I
41:44
don't know if you remember this now because it's, it's been a
41:46
while, but I remember it's pretty fresh for me.
41:49
There was like, I'd say probably 2 weeks in, you know, your brain
41:52
starts to clear up and you, you see it, you see it, right?
41:54
So you see it in the clients. All these emotions start to come
41:58
back and all the shit you put people through comes back 10
42:01
times stronger, you know? And I just felt so bad.
42:04
I was like, Oh my God, I can't believe I put these.
42:06
My mom, my dad, my wife, my sister.
42:09
I put them through it again. And I can't believe I did this
42:11
to myself again. Almost like you're on autopilot
42:14
and you don't really see what you're doing you're just kind of
42:16
doing it, you know, and then you're right.
42:18
Like feelings start to come back and it's like, I don't want to
42:23
feel this right now. I don't want to experience this
42:26
right now. This sucks, you know, I'm, I'm
42:29
doing everything I can to, to run away from it, you know, but
42:32
that's what I'm good at, you know, So when you're right, when
42:36
it starts to come back, it's like, you know, and then, and,
42:39
but that's also dangerous. And that's dangerous because we
42:42
want to try to fix everything. I want to try to fix everything
42:45
as quick as possible. I got to get back to work.
42:48
I got to make, I got to make up for lost time.
42:50
I got to be a good dad, you know, but how I don't, I don't
42:53
know how to do any of these things.
42:54
I've been stuck too busy using for the last 15 years, right?
43:00
But my thinking is so skewed that, you know, I'm trying to,
43:04
you know, I call it, I call it, you know, jump jumping off kilt
43:08
or, you know, something like that, where it's like I'm, I got
43:11
to, I got to remove an abstain from, from the guilt.
43:13
So I need to do these other things, right.
43:15
But in that process, I'm only making things worse because I'm
43:18
not learning about, you know, tolerance or patience or
43:22
trusting the process or appreciating the journey or, you
43:25
know, hearing anybody else. I'm just, I'm, I'm listening to,
43:30
to react and respond rather than to understand, right.
43:37
And I always say feelings won't kill you.
43:43
Drugs and alcohol. Well, I love that, you know, so
43:46
I, I, I hear you, right. So you know that experience for
43:50
you too, like, you know, multiple treatment centers and
43:54
you know, you have all of these good things in your in your
43:56
life, but it's like, why is it not enough, right?
44:01
And you can take every good thing in my life and put it in
44:06
front of me and you can show me like, you know, I'm going to
44:11
lose all of these things. But if I'm not good internally,
44:18
no matter how much I love those people, it's not enough.
44:24
And people, and I feel like that's something that people
44:27
have a hard time understanding because logically, if the people
44:32
on that love you and care about you, it makes sense.
44:36
But you know, emotionally, internally, it's like it's, it's
44:41
not enough, right? So, you know, that's where you
44:44
really got to do the work on yourself on a consistent basis
44:47
to to get there, you know, and then when you appreciate the
44:50
journey and you're in that process, you start to
44:53
understand. Yeah, the UPS and the downs,
44:56
right. You're kind of appreciating the
44:57
downs as being a lesson. You know, this doesn't make
45:00
sense to me right now, but one day it will.
45:02
One day this will make sense. You know, you mentioned cross
45:05
addictions, which which I'm, you know, I think the for me right
45:09
now, the phone is, is probably the big one, right?
45:11
The computer, the phone, yeah. And I, I, you know, gambling is
45:16
a, is a tough one for, for people.
45:18
Are you seeing a lot of people come in with gambling problems
45:21
yet 'cause I know they just recently legalized it in Ontario
45:24
not too long ago, about a year. Do you, are you starting?
45:27
I feel like a lot of people come into rehab maybe for something
45:30
else and then you have to kind of do the work that, oh, there's
45:33
this porn addiction here. Oh, there's this gambling thing,
45:35
right? Well, I'll tell you this.
45:38
I mean, if people are coming in with, with gambling additions,
45:41
they're they're not really disclosing it, right?
45:44
Because again, here's something that's provided or presented as,
45:48
as a normal thing to do Now, you know, you're, you're watching
45:51
us, it's on TV, it's on TV and it's, it's become part of the
45:56
game. It's become part of the
45:57
experience. I guess you wouldn't like to
45:59
call it, right? You don't just look at a
46:00
sporting event or you know, and say, Oh, this is just a game.
46:04
It's an experience, right? And and, and betting and
46:06
gambling as become a big, big piece of it, right.
46:09
So to answer your question, you know, I don't see it off that
46:15
too, too much. I mean, if we've had some cases,
46:17
but I, I feel like, you know, as as we go, continue, it's coming,
46:22
it's coming. And it's probably the scariest
46:30
addiction, I think, because money is the drug and it's not
46:36
about winning or losing. So the same sort of feelings
46:39
that you try to chase with drugs and alcohol, there's chasing
46:43
with gambling and chasing with losing money or winning money,
46:46
right? It's it's that why am I escaping
46:50
by doing this? But you know, you lose all your
46:54
money then what, you know, So it's very scary.
46:59
And I'm sure, you know, as we continue to move along, you're
47:04
going to start to see it becoming more and more
47:06
prevalent. I agree with you and I I think I
47:08
know this. This has hit personally to me
47:10
too but I think like the rates of suicide, especially with men
47:14
in that have gambling addictions are starting to go up.
47:16
I read that summer. It's a high suicide rate of
47:19
addiction. So it is true then?
47:20
Yeah, Yeah. So when you actually gamble
47:22
you're the same dopamine levels as cocaine, it releases the same
47:27
dopamine levels in your ad, right.
47:29
So that's the two are, are associated with each other.
47:32
And yeah, it's, it's pretty, it's, it's scary.
47:35
It's scary. And even like casinos, you know,
47:39
people just are so much, it's so much, it's so readily available,
47:44
inaccessible, right. And, you know, you know what
47:47
they say like accessibility can be, you know, the, the devil's
47:51
playground for a person, right? Because it's right there in
47:54
front of you, right? So, you know, when people are
47:57
these days, you know, everybody's on the phone and
47:59
people playing online slots and blackjack and you know, it's
48:03
it's it's becoming, it's becoming like, I guess you call
48:08
it a pet like a pandemic, almost like not a pandemic, but what's
48:11
the word epidemic? Epidemic.
48:12
Yeah, it is. Yeah.
48:13
Yeah. So you, you talked a little bit
48:17
about your kind of, you know, your mental health and how
48:20
important it is to kind of do your own thing because you're,
48:22
you're really busy with work And I find that, you know, I, I can
48:27
get lost in helping other people.
48:28
I was mentoring for a bit and I've entered a lot of guys.
48:31
Luckily, one of the best parts of this, this whole thing by
48:34
far, by far, like bar none, you know, it's changed my life,
48:38
right? And I can't wait to get back
48:39
into it. What do your daily habits look
48:41
like to kind of take care of your own recovery?
48:44
So I pray in the morning. Sometimes I'll meditate, but I
48:48
pray in the morning. So I read, I read the just for
48:51
the day every day. Because again, I never know
48:53
when, whenever it is, I read something, you know, when it,
48:56
when it's going to hit, you know, and it kind of set me
48:59
straight, right? Because again, I need to be
49:01
reminded of certain things when I'm in, when I'm in extreme
49:04
thinking, when I'm in, you know, there's days when I wake up and
49:07
I don't want to, I don't want to adult, you know, I want to, I
49:10
want, I want to, I want to be, I want to be like a little kid,
49:14
you know, and I look at responsibility sometimes as a
49:17
burden rather than a privilege, right.
49:18
So, you know, reading the just for today, which is something
49:22
that I was true and near and dear to me in my early recovery,
49:27
you know, I do that and then, you know, I get to work and, you
49:32
know, I would like to say that, you know, I go to a lot of
49:34
meetings, but I but I don't. And you know, that's something
49:36
that I definitely need to continue to work on.
49:38
But I have a sponsor. I'm going through a book again,
49:43
you know, and I got a couple people reaching out, then I'm
49:45
going to take through the book, too.
49:46
And you know, when stuff sort of slows down for me.
49:49
But you know, for me, man, like, like, physical exercise is so
49:53
important. You know, playing sports is so
49:56
important, tennis or, you know, baseball, I play in, you know,
50:00
Baseball League too. And I, I should mention that
50:03
like, you know, recovery, softball was such a big and an
50:05
instrumental piece to my, to my recovery when I was out there
50:08
too. Like it really was good to help
50:10
me bond and, and form relationships with other people
50:13
and meet other people, right? And so it was so cool to do
50:16
that. That was, that was, that was
50:17
like a really, really great time for me, right.
50:19
So, you know, just just those things and, and reminding myself
50:23
that I that I need to have balance in my life and, and, and
50:28
understanding that like, you know, as long as I know I do my
50:31
best everyday, it's enough. Not much more I can do, you
50:37
know, So that and, you know, you know, even working in the in
50:42
this field, like, you know, people always say, OK, well, I
50:44
work in this field. That's my no way working in an
50:50
environment like that has a has a mental big time, big time and
50:58
you got you got to have maintenance for yourself.
51:01
Yeah, you really do. So that's that's kind of what.
51:05
Yeah, I mean like if you if even if you just look at the stats
51:08
and the numbers, right. Like this, they did the stats
51:10
and numbers do not favor us, right.
51:12
So you put that in the treatment center environment.
51:15
How many clients do you get? You know, thousands, right?
51:18
In, in a month, I'm sure, or in a couple of months.
51:21
It's a big treatment center. You're going to see more people
51:23
unfortunately failed and succeed, right?
51:25
And I don't like the word fail because relapse is not failure.
51:28
I've learned that failure is the wrong word, but relapse and kind
51:31
of stumble a bit, right? Why do you think people relapse
51:37
like today? I know that that's kind of a
51:39
multifaceted answer, right? There's a lot of reasons, but
51:42
just like today, why do you think what are you seeing?
51:47
I think time, I think, you know, people when I really get it in
51:56
such a quick time and, and, and they sort of let go of the the
52:00
gas. I think people, you know, how
52:04
willing are they right? And, and I don't know, like,
52:07
like for me, man, like, and, and from the people that I've, you
52:11
know, gone and cleaned and sober with this, just to talk to some
52:13
of the people that I went through treatment with.
52:15
And we were, we were willing to do whatever it took, right?
52:18
And I think sometimes people just have a lack of willingness.
52:20
And I don't mean to say that in like a rude or disrespectful
52:24
way. I'm just, it's, it's what it is.
52:27
But I think time, I think, I think people look at how quickly
52:32
or, you know, in a short period of time, I want to get
52:34
everything back right. And I I think that they sort of
52:37
just they fall off because of that, you know, they don't take
52:42
it as seriously or they don't they're not the desperation goes
52:47
away. You know, they start feeling
52:49
good, putting a little bit of weight back in some color in the
52:52
face, families talking to them. And then it's like, OK, see you
52:58
later, guys. I got everything I needed from
53:01
you. I don't need to be around here
53:03
anymore. Thank you.
53:05
But here I go. I'm going to go.
53:06
I got some catching up to do Deuces, right.
53:09
And I, I think though that's a big reason, but I also think
53:12
like, you know, communities is huge lack of community for
53:18
people connection like me. And you're having a conversation
53:22
right now and we can relate to each other.
53:24
And it makes me feel like I'm more normal just by talking to
53:28
you, right? Like if you're left to your own
53:31
devices and, and you're, and you're surrounding yourself with
53:34
people that don't understand the struggle of what you're going
53:37
through, what you've been through, you know, you're going
53:40
to feel alone again. So what, you have some sobriety
53:43
under your belt. And sometimes I always tell
53:47
people, like, if you don't have a good program or you don't have
53:49
connections with people or, you know, you're not talking to
53:52
somebody, you're not doing what you need to do.
53:54
Like being sober is not enough either, because you start
53:57
feeling miserable again, right? And it's like, yeah, of course
54:00
people are going to go back to, you know, the, the, the thing
54:04
that's they're comfortable and that coping mechanism, you know,
54:07
because they know it's familiar, It's there, right?
54:09
So I think those factors play a huge.
54:11
Part too. No, that's a good answer.
54:13
And yeah, you mentioned community, you know, today I was
54:15
having one of those days where I was in my head and I was alone
54:18
and I, I'm grateful to be an addict too.
54:20
I want to say that too, because I, I truly am like I would never
54:23
have I would never have discovered these tools that I
54:26
have today to tackle life and anything that life throws at me
54:29
if I didn't, you know, get some sort of rock bottom, you know,
54:34
so I'm, I'm grateful too because yeah, there's a beautiful
54:40
there's you know, you mentioned mediocrity, but it's it's I kind
54:44
of I like that that idea of I have a purpose in a purpose in
54:51
my life today and it's not going to be everything I want, but
54:56
it's going to be everything I need and then I'm going to find
54:58
out and it says this in the literature, right?
55:00
I'm going to find out that all along, it's what I wanted
55:03
anyways, right? All the stuff that I needed is
55:05
what I wanted. And I didn't really want the
55:07
car. I didn't want the control, I
55:08
didn't want the, you know, whatever.
55:10
Is is your car gonna hug you and tell you it loves you every
55:15
night? No, but two cars might, two cars
55:18
might, and then three. Is is money gonna fucking kiss
55:21
you on the on the cheek and say I'm proud of you and you know,
55:24
like I hope you have a good night.
55:25
Like, no, like people, man, like, you know, and all that
55:28
other stuff is just helps you provide some sense of comfort in
55:32
these. But it's not a sustainable
55:34
solution. Yeah, right.
55:36
And I have to learn that the hard way.
55:39
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, we're, we're,
55:42
we're stubborn people, a lot of us, right.
55:44
Yeah. Let's let's end with this.
55:47
I know at least on my on this podcast, I get a lot of messages
55:50
from from family members. And I'm sure you deal a lot with
55:53
family reaching out to you before the addict, right?
55:56
If you could say something to, you know, a wife struggling with
55:59
her husband or or husband struggling with her wife with
56:02
his wife going through this or a mom and the kid that's, you
56:05
know, just doesn't know what to do anymore.
56:08
What? What would you say to that loved
56:10
one? I would, I would, I would say
56:13
like don't give up, you know, keep trying to, you know, fight
56:20
the best way that you can for that loved one and, and, and
56:23
don't give up hope because if I can stay sober and you can stay
56:29
sober and you already can really stay, you know, anyone can get
56:33
this right. And I really think, I really
56:35
truly believe that, you know, you just can't give up hope and
56:39
do everything you can, you know, to, to help and just be there
56:44
for, you know, be there for them the best way that you can and
56:47
doing it in a way that's like supportive, but there is a lot
56:50
of help along the way. I mean, you know, our
56:53
organization is, you know, big and saving lives, reuniting
56:57
families, right? That's what Addiction Rehab
56:59
Toronto stands for. But you know, just don't give
57:02
up. Don't give up hope.
57:05
You'll be amazed, you know, that miracles do come true.
57:09
And I always tell people like, stay in your shoes and don't
57:12
leave before the miracle happens and don't give up, right?
57:16
Stay a little longer, try a little harder, you know, and you
57:21
know, I always tell families like I aligned with this.
57:25
I always say like, don't worry, you know, your son or your
57:27
husband or your daughter in good hands, you know, because you
57:33
know there there's nothing can teach you.
57:36
Live the experience, nothing, right?
57:39
And just don't give up hope. Love it.
57:45
Thanks so much for coming down I.
57:46
Appreciate it, man. Thank you.
57:48
Yeah, Thank you for having me. Thanks for listening.
57:51
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57:57
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58:00
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58:03
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58:07
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58:10
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