Latest / Networking Unleashed: Building Profitable Connections / Networking Unleashed: S1E89 An Interview with Dennis Meador and Michael A Forman, Public Speaker

Transcript

Networking Unleashed: S1E89 An Interview with Dennis Meador and Michael A Forman, Public Speaker · Networking Unleashed: Building Profitable Connections

0:14
Welcome back to Networking Unleashed, Building
0:17
Profitable Connections, the show where we break
0:20
down the art and science of building relationships
0:23
that drive real results. I'm your host, Michael
0:27
Foreman, and today we're diving deep into what
0:30
really takes to build something from the ground
0:33
up, not just the strategy, but the mindset, the
0:37
grit, and the bold choices that make it possible.
0:41
My guest today is someone who didn't inherit
0:45
a roadmap. He created one. His journey about
0:48
creating, about starting with nothing but a vision,
0:52
using resilience, emotional intelligence, and
0:56
purpose to turn connections into a lifeline.
0:59
If you've ever wondered how to network when you
1:02
feel like an underdog or how to lead with value
1:06
when you have nothing but ambition, this episode
1:09
is for you. I'd like to welcome Dennis. Dennis,
1:12
welcome to the podcast. And listen, why don't
1:16
you give us a little bit about your background
1:18
as well? Sure. I am a lifelong entrepreneur.
1:22
Started into this whole foray at about 14 years
1:26
old. Discovered very quickly that you can have
1:30
a lot more success by enabling others to have
1:32
success than necessarily seeking success solely
1:36
for yourself. Did that through my early teen
1:39
years, 14, 15, 16. Then in my late teens, early
1:43
20s, started another company that actually took
1:45
off very well. And I was able to retire into
1:48
Romania for about four or five years. I'd run
1:50
the company a little bit. I had a partner. He
1:53
ran it the day -to -day, and I did the 50 ,000
1:55
-foot overview. But I ran it from phone cards
1:58
and dial -up internet in the early 2000s. So
2:01
I'm one of the first remote workers, I like to
2:03
jokingly say, because I did that for a series
2:06
of a few years. That's been my whole career.
2:08
I discovered shortly after actually that project,
2:11
I liked working with attorneys, although I have
2:13
worked with a number of different types of businesses
2:15
throughout my career in marketing and branding
2:17
and that sort of thing. And that brings us to
2:19
our current project. About a year and a half
2:22
ago, my former partner exercised the option to
2:25
buy me out. Fine. That's something I've never
2:28
been scared of is being out on my own, starting
2:30
over. That's status quo. And started this company,
2:34
The Legal Podcast Network. The launch date was
2:37
May of 24. Started with myself and my VA, no
2:40
clients. We now have roughly 150 clients, about
2:43
40 people on the team. And we're actually holding
2:46
back our growth while we're working on some internal
2:48
SOPs and things like that. Once those get done.
2:52
It's really off to the races for us. Then we're
2:54
going to really hit the gas on this thing. So
2:56
that brings me to today. I live on an island
2:58
in Belize with my wife. We got married a little
3:01
over a year ago. We travel a lot. I run the business
3:04
from my laptop, have my relationships all over
3:06
the world via my laptop, via my phone, all of
3:09
that. So that's what brought me to today. It
3:13
sounds wonderful. It sounds great. And it really
3:16
sounds like you have the eyes and ears of a true
3:20
networking individual because you're doing it
3:24
remotely, first of all. But you started out with
3:28
what's called a giver's gain. You look to help
3:31
before you receive. And that, I think, is the
3:35
most important part emotionally regarding networking
3:39
itself. Be internally with what we do. We have
3:44
a kind of a rule internally for every, so we
3:47
use it, we break it up in five. For every five
3:49
things that you do, three of them should be 100
3:52
% value with who you're doing them for. One of
3:55
them can be 50 -50 and one of them can be more
3:58
self -serving than the other two categories.
4:01
And so we always say 3 -1 -1 is what we say internally.
4:06
Give 60, really 75 % value and 20, 25 % just
4:11
remind them, hey, this is what I do. This is
4:13
how I could help you. But always seeking value
4:15
first. That seems like a great equation for anybody
4:21
to have for them to be successful in business.
4:24
So if you just keep as a general rule, you can
4:27
never go wrong. Okay, let's start out. When you
4:31
were just starting out. How did you build your
4:33
first meaningful connection and what did it lead
4:37
to? When I first, are you talking about back
4:41
when I was a teenager or when you first started
4:44
out, you were 14, 15, 16. Let's bring it to that.
4:50
Yeah, I would say the first meaningful relationship
4:53
that I built was actually the older lady whose
4:56
door I knocked on that kind of helped me come
4:58
to that realization that I didn't want to shovel.
5:01
I wanted to get the jobs and my brother and his
5:03
friends wanted to shovel because they didn't
5:04
want to get the jobs. And I remember going up
5:06
to her. She was just a sweet lady. And I remember
5:09
she handed me a 10 and two fives and said for
5:11
$20 shoveled this and this. And I went back every
5:15
time we, every time it snowed, every time it,
5:18
there was leaves for the summer for her lawn.
5:21
And I be, I just knew, and she was, she was up
5:23
a block down a couple of blocks and up about
5:25
half a block. And I remember it. She, as soon
5:29
as I was coming up the walk, she'd be like, oh,
5:30
I'm so glad you're here. And then she recommended
5:32
me to a few other ladies that she knew in the
5:35
neighborhood that needed help with somebody mowing
5:37
their lawn, that sort of thing. So that was probably
5:39
one of my first, if you would call it networking
5:41
connections. I didn't see it as that at the time.
5:44
It was just a nice lady who introduced me to
5:46
more nice people that needed yard work done.
5:48
But I would say that very first person that.
5:51
It wasn't our first job, but it was the first
5:53
one where I realized, wait a minute, if I get
5:55
the jobs and have the relationships with people,
5:57
then my team can do the work and they don't have
6:01
to have what's uncomfortable for them, which
6:03
is interacting with people. So I'd say, honestly,
6:05
that was probably my first. One, the second one
6:08
I would say that would be more business was I
6:11
took a paper route. The guy loved me. And then
6:14
I said, how many paper routes do we have around
6:16
here? And he said, you can only do so many paper
6:18
routes in a day. And I said, yeah, I know some
6:19
other kids are like me. And so he started every
6:22
time a paper route, somebody would complain or
6:24
he'd want to. He wasn't afraid to fire anybody
6:26
within walking distance because I knew I would
6:29
get a phone call or he would stop by and he'd
6:31
say, hey, I got this route. Here's the map. And
6:33
I go find somebody. They do that route. I'd collect
6:35
it. We'd move on. So that was probably my first
6:38
networking between those two. It conjured up
6:42
so many memories for me with my paper routes
6:46
to begin with. But it's funny because you figured
6:49
out building the relationship before the client,
6:54
before the customer base. And listen, most people
6:58
didn't recognize that really until the pandemic,
7:01
because it wasn't until after the pandemic when
7:04
people realized that, oh, let me. I have a deep
7:07
dive. Let me gain this relationship over them
7:10
just being a customer. So you did this 30 years
7:15
ago when it wasn't popular. So you really had
7:19
a step above it, really, because it shows your
7:23
entrepreneurship, but it showed your mindset
7:26
as well, that you're putting the person first
7:29
above and beyond any work. And you have a great
7:35
work ethic as well. So it all came together very
7:38
well. Okay. What role has networking played in
7:43
moments when you felt the most uncertain or lost
7:46
in your journey? I have a lot of what I call
7:50
business friends. I'll give you an illustration
7:52
of a business friend. Back in early 2000s, now
7:57
it's been 20 plus years ago, after I was kind
8:01
of looking for the next thing to do, I got recruited
8:03
by a company that sold to attorneys. This is
8:05
how I got into it. Made friends with the guy
8:07
who was the VP of recruiting or whatever it was,
8:10
but he's the one who recruited me in. He and
8:12
I became friends 22 years ago. We're still friends
8:17
to this day. As a matter of fact, we've worked
8:19
together. We've worked for each other. We've
8:21
had businesses together. And now he's one of
8:23
my salespeople. Although I've never met him except
8:27
for one time in real life. He came to my house
8:29
again, almost 20, about 20 years ago. He came
8:33
to my house. We shot pool. We talked. But this
8:36
is a guy that for almost 20 something years,
8:38
especially in different fits and spurts, we talked
8:41
every day. And so we'd bounce ideas, discouragements,
8:44
mind frame and go off. So I think you have to
8:48
have that network of people that understand what
8:51
you're going through. Because when I go to my
8:53
wife and I'm like, oh, this happened in the business,
8:55
this happened in the business. And it's just
8:57
like, when you're on the outside looking in.
8:59
especially if this is how you know is a big way
9:02
to take care of your family, sometimes I can
9:04
put more on the people. I could put more on the
9:06
people around me, like my wife, children, family,
9:10
or even my people that are working for me. But
9:13
if I have people that... are experiencing and
9:16
are in the same type of position that I am being
9:19
able to have that person that understands and
9:22
can give some insight whether it's just hey dude
9:24
I know what it's like I've been through it or
9:27
it could be when I went through something like
9:28
that this is how I handled it and it really helped
9:30
me so that's been the biggest advantage during
9:33
those tough times is having those what I call
9:36
business friendships a number of them that I've
9:38
had for years and I keep connected with that
9:41
maybe we make money together maybe we don't but
9:44
we still try to be an encouragement to one another.
9:47
And that's great. You always want to surround
9:50
yourself, whether it be virtually or not, with
9:53
people like that. You don't want to surround
9:55
yourself with yes men, right? Because that doesn't
9:58
get you anywhere. That just pats you on the back
10:00
whenever you want, and that's fine. But it doesn't
10:03
get you where you want to go. When you have somebody
10:06
say, I had that same problem, but I did it this
10:10
way. And it makes you think. You may not take...
10:13
their criticism like a hundred percent, but you
10:16
take a good part of it and say, oh, okay, you
10:17
know what? I'm not going to make that mistake.
10:19
So I can see how that all comes in. Okay. So
10:24
let's talk resilience. How do you stay connected
10:27
to people when things aren't going well? How
10:33
do I stay connected to people when things aren't
10:35
going well? I think that when things aren't going
10:38
well, and it depends on really obviously this
10:40
specific definition, but I think that for me,
10:44
it's text, it's FaceTime. I live digitally. I've
10:48
been all in on the internet since 2003, so 22
10:51
years. Almost every business I've built since
10:55
that time has revolved around the internet in
10:57
some way. And so I communicate digitally. So
11:01
it could be Facebook. It could be FaceTime. It's
11:05
any number of these tools. But that's what I
11:08
do during those times is stay connected with
11:10
different people. And learning their digital
11:13
language and the people that you interact with
11:15
is extremely important as well, especially when
11:18
you have a lot of business or what I also call
11:20
virtual friends. Because everybody has a preferred
11:24
form of communication. And I always like to use
11:27
this illustration. Most of us know somebody who
11:30
we might text them, we get no answer. Then one
11:33
day we go on Facebook and we inbox them on Facebook
11:36
and they instantly respond. And you're like,
11:38
you couldn't have answered. I've texted you eight
11:40
times in the last two months. But that's because
11:43
you now went into their realm and spoke their
11:45
digital language. And so. Being able to know
11:49
like different people, I'll be like, oh, that's
11:50
one of my Instagram friends. That's one of my
11:52
LinkedIn friends. That's one of, because I have
11:54
to remind myself, like you might say, that's
11:56
my friend from Texas. That's my friend from Ohio.
11:59
I identify them by their digital language that
12:02
they are most comfortable in. And then I can
12:06
reach out to those people and gather them together
12:09
from really across the world now that I've been
12:11
doing this for so long. And I've had people that
12:13
have worked with me, for me, alongside of me.
12:16
all over the globe my entire career. What do
12:20
you prefer as a way to digitally stay connected?
12:25
Right now? Business -wise, I would say it's probably
12:29
going to be LinkedIn. LinkedIn has become a place
12:32
where professionals live and talk and network.
12:35
It's really become a huge networking event. And
12:38
there's pluses and minuses to that, just like
12:40
any sort of event. But it's like a virtual, ongoing
12:43
networking event that constantly happens. That's
12:47
a place that I live. Personally, friends and
12:50
family, I prefer text. And then I can text back
12:52
when I'm not busy. And I try to explain to people.
12:55
Listen, just because my text doesn't bounce back
12:58
as non -deliverable doesn't mean I'm available
13:00
immediately that moment. I'll set down my phone
13:03
for sometimes a day, sometimes six hours, things
13:06
like that. And I like the non -friction ability
13:09
to be able to text back and forth with people.
13:12
Take a few hours here and you can still hold
13:15
a conversation and say, I don't like voice notes.
13:18
Because once it's said, it's gone and you can't
13:20
continue the conversation. And I always tell
13:23
people, they'll send me voice notes. I'm like,
13:24
stop sending me voice notes. I only want you
13:27
to text me. Why? Voice notes are easier. In the
13:30
moment, they're easier for you. In the long term,
13:33
they're harder for both of us because we have
13:35
no way to reference back our conversation about
13:37
this. So those are my preferred forms. Exactly
13:41
my feelings as well. Okay. Did you ever make
13:45
a bold move in networking, like reaching out
13:48
to someone way outside your league? And what
13:52
happened? Just recently, actually, and I don't
13:55
know if it's outside my league, but TEDx is doing
13:58
a series in Roatan, which I'm in, like I said
14:01
earlier, Belize. So it's just the next country
14:03
down in Honduras or Roatan. And so I was like,
14:07
you know what, let's let's try to get on the
14:08
stage for this. I wanted to I'd set a goal to
14:11
be on stage three times next year, 26. And so
14:13
I thought this could be a huge jump towards that,
14:16
especially if I could say as seen on TEDx. Now,
14:18
what happened was they actually ended up rescheduling
14:21
the event to the spring. But in the meantime,
14:25
they invited me. They're launching a podcast
14:27
and they've invited me to come on the podcast
14:30
and teach about podcasting and remote work and
14:32
remote work culture and all of those things.
14:35
So I fell short of my goal. I'm one of those
14:38
people. I firmly believe this. I put goals beyond
14:41
what I know are possible because if I'm always
14:45
looking at something that's impossible, I will
14:47
fail and reach the improbable. If I set my goal
14:53
as something that's highly possible, I'll reach
14:56
my goal and stop there. So I would rather go
14:59
beyond possible to improbable and fall short
15:02
of impossible. And that's the way that I set
15:04
my goals. And that's why I do that. So I didn't
15:07
get on the stage at TEDx, but I got on the podcast.
15:11
And so that's improbable. It's not as likely,
15:14
but. Not being on the stage, but I think it puts
15:17
me in that universe and hopefully eventually
15:19
gives me that opportunity to either do a talk
15:21
or at least be on an X stage. No, you're definitely
15:25
on your way there. I'm scheduled to do two TEDx
15:30
talks in two different states. Being on that
15:33
podcast is like a middle way and you're actually
15:36
on their radar. So that puts you in a very good
15:40
position. Okay, how did you build trust? When
15:45
you had no track record or brand. And I've started
15:51
several companies, so I think that's a very good
15:53
question. I think what I try to do in the way
15:56
that I build trust is when I approach because
16:00
sales process development and digital marketing
16:03
or marketing product development, that's my like
16:04
core specialty. I could do other things as an
16:08
entrepreneur. Most people can. But the thing
16:10
that like I'm best at, I know, hey, I feel like
16:13
I'm in a in whatever percentage you want to say
16:16
top five, top one percent in that sort of arena.
16:20
So typically what I do in order to build trust
16:22
for a new brand or a new company is very quickly
16:26
I try to show what it is that we're doing. For
16:30
example, when I launched this company, I have
16:33
a buddy here on the island who is also a divorce
16:35
attorney out of Miami, and he'll fly back and
16:37
forth when he needs to. He's got a partner who's
16:40
a very well -known criminal defense attorney.
16:42
Matter of fact, I think he has like his own show
16:45
on one of the major news networks or something
16:47
like that, right? So what I did is I went to
16:50
him and said, hey, I'm launching this company.
16:52
It's a podcast company for lawyers. You know,
16:54
you're going to have a host. You just sit down.
16:56
It takes about a half hour. You answer questions.
16:58
Very simple. But what I want to do is have some
17:00
examples of what we're doing, a finished product,
17:04
so that I'm not selling a concept. I'm selling
17:07
them something they can see. Now, you can sell
17:09
concepts. I've sold concepts off and on my whole
17:12
career. But if you can actually have something
17:14
to show them, now they're like, and a lot of
17:18
them, Would be like in the beginning. Oh, I've
17:20
seen that guy. I know who that guy is. The guy
17:21
who has his own television show. And so there
17:24
was just that. built -in opportunity. So what
17:27
I try to do is very quickly build out the product
17:29
as what I envision it to be to show clients.
17:32
And then I actually go myself and I try to sell
17:35
for the first year, six months, 100 clients,
17:38
whatever it is. And I develop the process and
17:41
listen to clients. And what is it that they doubt?
17:43
If I hear a couple of times, yeah, I saw your
17:46
website. I'm not interested. I go, I look at
17:48
my website. I have people look at my website.
17:49
What is on my website that is causing people
17:52
to have doubts and have Oh, I think it's this
17:55
phrase right here. And then we'll tweak it and
17:56
try it. And then I stop hearing that and I fix
17:59
it. So that's what I do is I. build slowly. I
18:03
lead by doing. And then that allows me to very
18:06
quickly take a product. For example, the legal
18:09
podcast network, we launched it a year ago, no
18:11
clients from what I can see. And now again, don't
18:15
quote me on this, but I only know of three or
18:16
four quote unquote competitors. And only in that
18:19
they do podcasts for lawyers as well. Their total
18:22
marketing offering is different. Their pricing
18:24
structure is well above mine. But in one year,
18:28
we went from not existing to being the largest
18:30
attorney podcast network that exists. And again,
18:36
that was just so now I don't have to build credibility
18:38
just a year into it. They know who we are. They
18:42
probably know somebody who's our client. And
18:44
we can show them a ton of work and testimonials
18:46
and everything else. But in the beginning, that's
18:49
what I did is I was the one there. I could answer
18:52
the questions. I could overcome the issues. That
18:54
also let me know what. I needed to build in order
18:57
to be able to hand off the sales process? What
19:00
is it that people aren't seeing that I'm talking
19:02
them over, but I can put in place to enable and
19:05
empower a new person to come in and sell my product?
19:09
So that's great. So really you're... You went
19:12
out and you saw what people didn't like. You
19:15
fixed it. You went a little bit further and you
19:17
saw what those people didn't like. You fixed
19:20
it. And this is all so you can hand it off to
19:22
another salesperson to go out and sell. But they're
19:27
getting the final, the finished product. So you
19:31
did all the grunt work the first year. So they've
19:35
got the finished product. They've got the script
19:37
of what to say. They've got the whole sales process.
19:39
They've got the outline. They've got the follow
19:42
-up cadences. They've got everything they need.
19:45
They literally just plug and play. If you're
19:47
a good salesperson, I can plug you into my system
19:50
and you can go. Sounds fantastic. Really does.
19:54
Okay. Have you ever built a relationship that
19:58
didn't seem useful at first, but later turned
20:02
out to be a game changer? I think we all have
20:06
tons of relationships like that. I'm the guy
20:08
that's sitting at the coffee shop and I'm on
20:10
an island with a lot of tourists. Every person
20:12
that sits down next to me, are you visiting or
20:14
are you on the island? Now, I've been here long
20:16
enough. I usually know if they're on the island,
20:18
but I'm the guy that strikes up a conversation
20:20
with anybody. So that enables me to be able to
20:24
take and... Can you give me the way the question
20:27
was worded again? I just want to make sure that
20:28
I'm... Have you ever built a relationship that
20:32
didn't seem useful at first, but later turned
20:35
into a game changer? So I have so many relationships.
20:40
I have Instagram relationships, hundreds of them,
20:42
hundreds of Instagram relationships. I have Facebook
20:45
relationships. And what I mean by that, these
20:47
are people that I stay in contact with on a regular
20:49
basis. And so when you have that much out there,
20:52
anytime I say, hey. The fruition of having such
20:57
a large network over LinkedIn, over my phone,
21:00
over Instagram, over Facebook, where I literally
21:04
probably have, if you counted them all up, probably
21:07
conservatively a thousand people that I stay
21:09
in contact with at least quarterly, some weekly,
21:12
some monthly, some daily, more of my own family
21:16
and a few friends. But being able to have those
21:19
relationships, anytime I put something out there,
21:22
there's help. There's an answer. There's a person.
21:26
And it's usually, like you said, somebody I didn't
21:28
expect. I build no relationships with hopes of
21:31
what will happen with it and zero expectation.
21:36
And that way, when any of my relationships come
21:38
to fruition, it's a bonus in my life instead
21:40
of an expected outcome. And the only reason I
21:44
do it that way is because that way. I don't monetize
21:48
internally my own relationships. I don't wanna
21:50
meet somebody and be like, how can they help
21:52
me? And listen, that's the one thing. I meet
21:55
people who network and you can feel it when they
21:58
have that sort of mind frame of, I'm meeting
22:01
you because I'm hoping you can help me somehow
22:02
versus the mind frame of somebody that's like,
22:05
I'm meeting you because you're a person and I
22:06
want to get to know about you and that's it.
22:09
And if something comes out of it, great, but
22:11
if not, I'm okay as well. I am a firm believer.
22:15
I said at the beginning, a giver's gain. But
22:18
after I have a whole system of a networking event
22:22
at a table and active listening and all that,
22:25
but when the person that I'm speaking to is finished
22:29
or almost finished, I say, I like you and I like
22:32
what you do and how you do it. How can I make
22:35
you more successful? How can I be a good referral
22:38
source for you? And this releases. Any pressure
22:43
that's on my back to perform or anything else,
22:46
I'm just there for you. And how can I make you
22:49
more successful? So by doing so, that releases
22:54
all the pressure. And as you said, it's what
22:58
you can do for the other person, not have to
23:01
worry about it. The sooner you can do that, the
23:03
higher caliber of individual that you can interact
23:06
with. So about a few weeks ago, we had Simone
23:10
Biles. here on the island she's half belizean
23:12
and she happened to be at this little bar right
23:15
across the street from where i live with her
23:17
football player i don't know if he's her husband
23:20
or i can't remember but anyway i i go in i sit
23:23
down and everyone's like simone biles is here
23:25
and i was like why isn't anybody like saying
23:28
hi to her or anything and they're all like we
23:29
want to be respectful and i'm like yeah but if
23:32
you don't interact with somebody socially that's
23:35
you're just making him feel even more awkward.
23:37
Can you imagine you're sitting in the middle
23:39
of the bar and no one's sitting here, no one's
23:41
sitting on the other side of him and everyone
23:42
around you. And so I just went up to her and
23:44
I said, I said, hello. I said, I hope you don't
23:47
mind. I said, I'd like to just introduce myself.
23:50
I said, I live here on the island. And I asked
23:52
her first, I said, and if you'd be open to it,
23:54
if not, I wouldn't be offended, but I'd love
23:56
to take a picture with you. And she said, we
23:57
don't really take pictures on vacation. What?
24:00
Just sit and chat for a minute and let's have
24:02
a shot. And we got shots. She bought shots. And
24:05
then when we go to do shots, she goes, put your
24:07
camera right there and turn on the video. And
24:09
me and you will be in the camera and the video
24:10
taking shots together and high -fiving or whatever.
24:13
And I was like, okay. Although I did make them
24:17
like had I not said anything about asking for
24:19
a picture, I did make that mistake. But you don't
24:21
know how long you have and you don't know how
24:23
long they're going to give you. But when she
24:24
said instead of saying, sure, take a picture
24:27
and use me as a prop of your life and move on,
24:29
she said no. Whether she cognizantly acknowledged
24:33
this, she said, no, sit down, talk to me like
24:35
I'm a human and let's see what happens. And I
24:37
think we do that. We walk up to somebody, we're
24:40
like, can I take a selfie? And they're like,
24:42
why don't you get to know me first? And I think
24:45
when we lead with them and what they need, it
24:49
allows us to connect to people because I've connected.
24:52
And listen, I'm not saying me and Simone Biles
24:54
are friends on Facebook and she's coming over
24:57
for Thanksgiving. Don't get me wrong. But it
25:00
does allow you to make connections with people
25:02
who normally. have an aversion to that when you
25:05
approach them with, hi, I want this from you.
25:08
They're much more likely when you come in as
25:10
just normal or even a way to help them. Absolutely.
25:15
Absolutely. Okay. So what do you think most people
25:19
get wrong about networking and what's helped
25:22
you do it differently? I think the thing that.
25:27
people get wrong about networking is saying i'm
25:30
networking and i'm a networker and i use networking
25:33
and then they go around and network and so everyone
25:35
feels they're part of their little network harem
25:37
that they're trying to build up in their mind
25:39
instead of just walking around being natural
25:42
and being people being people and connecting
25:44
instead of doing something they saw in a book
25:47
that says ask this question and then send them
25:49
two emails it says this and like i think networking
25:53
is the last forum of marketing that belongs 100
25:58
% to humanity in that those who are the most
26:02
human are the most successful at it. I agree
26:07
a thousand percent. I just got into a discussion
26:10
with somebody beforehand about AI and how it
26:14
works with networking. And I said, AI is great.
26:19
It's a wonderful tool, but that's all it is,
26:22
a tool. You can't remove the human aspect of
26:26
meeting somebody, even through Zoom, because
26:29
you're a person, I'm a person, you still have
26:33
to interact. So AI can't take away that. We got
26:38
a whole big discussion about it, but it's true
26:41
because I don't ever want to remove the humanality
26:45
of the situation and give it to something foreign,
26:49
whether it's AI or something else. AI is a tool
26:52
and we can use it, but much rather this. Exactly.
26:58
Exactly. And we're a very AI forward company.
27:01
I spend several hours a week looking at AI. I
27:04
have a full -time young man who learns and integrates
27:06
and tests out different AI stuff. And so while
27:09
I 100 % believe that AI is a tool. The people
27:15
that harness the tools are the one the most effectively
27:18
are the ones that are going to be most successful
27:20
in the future. Just like when it used to be.
27:22
Think about when like the mechanic industry,
27:25
they had their their wrenches and they had a
27:27
certain way they had to do things. And then all
27:29
of a sudden someone walked in and was like, and
27:31
they've got this like power tool. It's like some
27:34
of them at first are probably like, nah, man,
27:37
I didn't build up this muscle over the years
27:39
in order to use some sort of machine for it.
27:42
But yet the ones who are like. If it takes me
27:45
three minutes to do a whole car instead of 15,
27:48
one by one, then let's do it. And just going
27:52
through the whole car like that. And it's the
27:54
same, like we don't see AI as what, like what
27:57
you said is it's a tool to make us better. It's
28:00
not a tool to replace us. And it never will.
28:02
If we spot soulless humans, there's no way we
28:06
won't be able to continue to spot soulless machines.
28:10
Right? Absolutely. Absolutely. There are so many
28:15
different areas which I can go off on that, but
28:17
I'm going to try to keep it general. So am I.
28:21
So am I. Okay. How do you stay intentional with
28:25
your connections as your world grows bigger and
28:29
bigger? I think that is really probably one of
28:35
the biggest challenges for people. And so I think
28:39
with every connection, it has to eventually become
28:42
a two -sided connection. Because if I have a
28:48
connection, whereas if I fall off and they just
28:52
never make any effort, it's like any sort of
28:55
relationship. If one person is the only one that's
28:58
giving always ever, and I'm not saying initially
29:01
beginning to bring the walls down so you can
29:03
connect, but just all they ever want is taking
29:06
or they'll never take their own time, then maybe
29:10
it's okay to let some. of those sort of fade
29:12
away. The people that keep my eye and keep my
29:15
heart and keep my attention are the people that
29:18
are just like, oh, haven't heard from you in
29:20
a while. Everything good over there? You didn't
29:22
get eaten by a shark, did you? I think networking's
29:25
a two -way street. And when people, and I think
29:28
that's why I talked about a networker versus
29:30
a real person, that person that just keeps sending
29:33
me stuff and sending me stuff and I'm trying
29:35
to politely by my non -action say, Maybe this
29:39
isn't the connection you're hoping because I
29:41
don't see real advantage in my end. And so sure,
29:44
I'll be friendly to you, but we didn't connect
29:48
in a way where I feel like we need to be best
29:49
friends. I think for me, I think the biggest
29:54
example of this is real estate agents. And again,
29:58
I'm using a generality. I'm not saying every
30:00
single one of them. But do you know how many
30:02
times me and my wife have been on this island
30:04
and we meet somebody and they're just like, oh,
30:06
I live here too. And we can usually tell within
30:10
about 10 minutes of interacting with that person
30:12
if they're a real, not even if they tell us,
30:15
they don't tell us, but we can just tell the
30:18
way they're just, oh, there's just like, it's
30:19
like just above who they are. There's like a
30:22
surface level. And so I think that that's the
30:26
kind of thing that allows you to show your genuineness
30:30
over time. I agree. I'm bringing it to real estate
30:35
agents because that's the direction you went.
30:37
But real estate agents always are in sell mode.
30:42
They always do a house or are you looking for
30:45
a house or can I help you get a house or can
30:48
I help you refinance? They're always in sell
30:50
mode. I have a few acquaintances here in Georgia
30:54
where they're real estate agents and they've
30:58
learned how to. not use that at all. They're
31:02
really going to the other person and are seeing
31:05
what the other person is about. They're not trying
31:07
to, I have a house, you have a house, that type
31:11
of thing. So it's a very small percentage of
31:13
real estate agents or companies like real estate
31:17
agents where the person can't. can't break through
31:22
that barrier. You have to break through that
31:25
barrier and kind of leave that and just see where
31:28
the conversation goes. And if it never enters
31:30
into the realm of selling or buying or anything
31:34
else like that, you leave it. You leave it. When
31:37
you stay in contact with them, whether through
31:39
LinkedIn or something else, you're always adding
31:43
an attachment of something in the housing market
31:46
or something. You're bringing value to that relationship
31:49
without asking for anything. Exactly. That's
31:53
what I do. Looking back, how did your network
31:57
support not just your goals, but also your purpose
32:01
or personal evolution? So I'll talk about a different
32:06
network that I had. I was in the church scene
32:09
for about 20 years, about 16 to 36. Taught in
32:14
church, youth pastor, evangelist, missionary,
32:17
while having my own businesses. And that network
32:21
obviously was very supportive. They supported
32:24
me. They helped me. That's a mind frame of the
32:27
whole sort of everything with church stuff, right?
32:30
It's just like helping people and things like
32:31
that. So I would say that having that relationship
32:35
or those relationships for those years. Now,
32:37
unfortunately. A lot of times when you have a
32:41
network that is very insular, sometimes what
32:45
can happen is when you make big moves in life
32:47
and you switch things up, me transitioning out
32:51
of being in church life the way that I was, what
32:54
can happen is if those connections aren't beyond
32:57
just the thing that you're connected about, then
33:01
when you separate, then there's just no more
33:04
connection anymore. So I think one of the biggest
33:07
ways to have meaningful connections is to make
33:10
sure that you're not just connected because of
33:13
one thing. Oh, you like this. I like this. We're
33:15
friends now, but you've got to find those. I
33:18
think they call them invisible strings and things
33:20
like that, that basically connect you in so many
33:23
ways that. If something happens where that primary
33:27
thing, you were in a networking group together,
33:29
right? And then that networking group disbands.
33:32
That person was just there to network and not
33:34
make real connections. They fade off from you.
33:36
So that's how I would answer that. You're 100
33:41
% correct. Because when you're building those
33:43
relationships, you're not building it on a church
33:47
or networking group or something. You're finding
33:50
something outside that realm. That you can connect
33:54
with. I use something called F -O -R -M, family,
33:57
occupation, recreation, and a message. And I
34:01
always have that in the back of my mind because
34:04
I don't want to talk business. So I'm either
34:08
going to talk about your husband, wife, sister,
34:10
brother, son, daughter, whatever. Not the occupation,
34:13
but the recreation part of it. Oh, you like to
34:17
ski or you like to boat or you like to play baseball
34:20
or something else like that. And we'll talk on
34:22
that level. way before we talk business. Where
34:26
you have gotten to today, you're a successful
34:29
person, but I'm sure you've made mistakes along
34:33
the way. So you're laughing. So just give me
34:38
one of your bigger mistakes and how did you get
34:41
out of it? Give me a moment to narrow it down
34:45
a little bit. You're like a true entrepreneur.
34:47
Yeah, exactly. I think there's... I think honestly,
34:52
and this is going to sound harsh, weird, whatever,
34:55
because I'm a very trusting person. And I've
34:59
had a couple of business partners that have ripped
35:00
me off. And I've had a couple of people that
35:03
have worked for me that have ripped me off. And
35:05
so my biggest mistake has been either not balancing
35:10
or finding a person that balances out that kind
35:14
of side of me that because I'm a. I tend to be
35:17
a little more forgiving and a little more tenderhearted
35:19
towards people. And especially if they have things
35:21
going on, I have been in situations where I know
35:26
I've been taken advantage of. So I wish I could
35:29
have that sort of just how much money are you
35:31
going to make me? Like just a little bit, like
35:34
3 % to where I didn't find myself in situations
35:38
where I'm like, I'm looking here in the last
35:41
two weeks, you've had me pay you for 80 hours
35:43
of work, but I can find no more than... 80 seconds.
35:46
So that's probably one of the things I wish that
35:50
I could go back and just slap myself and be like,
35:53
don't trust them. Trust but verify, whatever.
35:56
What you don't expect, what you don't inspect,
35:59
and all of those principles that I've learned
36:01
through the years is just being trusting people,
36:04
just offering things that had value. And I shouldn't
36:09
have maybe given it to them that quickly because
36:11
then they just took it and ran with it. So again,
36:14
just Just being transparent here, my biggest
36:17
mistake throughout my career has been trust.
36:20
Trusting people that I shouldn't have to the
36:23
point of not having accountability for them.
36:26
Now that I have this business, I have five directors.
36:28
They each direct each group of people. They bring
36:31
the reports to me and their reports. I see all
36:34
the client reports. So it's a very different
36:36
dynamic. And each of those five directors has
36:39
ownership of those five areas of the business.
36:41
And then I just manage my five directors. And
36:44
that's become a much easier way for me to insulate
36:48
myself from. to do those things where I could
36:51
be taken advantage of. Absolutely. I learned
36:56
a long time ago, when you go into business, you
36:58
go into a business with your friend, which I
37:01
would advise never to do. But one thing you do
37:04
is you write a contract. And even though you
37:07
don't refer to it ever again, or nothing, you
37:11
take that contract, you put it in a safe, and
37:14
you put it away, just in case. In a year, two
37:18
years, five years, 10 years, where things tend
37:21
to go a little awry, you can always refer back
37:24
to the contract. Exactly. That's what I've learned.
37:27
Okay, so let's bring this podcast full circle.
37:30
What advice would you give to someone who feels
37:34
like they have nothing to offer when networking?
37:38
I would say, first of all, that's just a perception.
37:41
Because sometimes the greatest thing you can
37:45
offer a person is just, a chance to smile and
37:48
chuckle a little bit. And so I think so many
37:51
people think I have to be like dropping golden
37:54
nuggets of wisdom in order to be of any value
37:57
to people, but sometimes just coming in contact
38:00
with a pleasant person who genuinely listens
38:03
to you and makes you laugh a little bit and has
38:06
a little bit of a story that brings, that makes
38:09
your day. That changes the dynamic of your mindset
38:12
to where throughout the rest of the day. So what
38:15
I would say is don't focus on what you can or
38:17
can't bring. Just focus on being somebody who
38:22
is present, who is there. And I think the moments
38:27
will tell you what you can bring versus when
38:31
we have something predetermined in our mind that's
38:33
going to happen, typically it happens. But when
38:36
you don't try to predetermine in your mind the
38:39
way a conversation is going to go or the way
38:41
whatever interaction is going to go, you can
38:44
have much bigger, better results and come away
38:48
with something much greater than your initial
38:51
desire was to have. Could be a new best friend.
38:54
Could be a new partnership. Could be a new connection
38:57
that helps your business. You didn't come into
39:01
it wanting. You came into it saying, I'm going
39:03
to be here. I'm going to be present for this
39:05
person. I'm going to listen to them. I'm going
39:08
to offer what I can and see what happens. The
39:11
people that have pierced through the clutter
39:14
with me are not the people that said the smartest
39:17
things. They're the people that said the most
39:19
sincere things. And I like to take that it's
39:24
the whole thought of networking, the word networking
39:28
per se. I take them out of there because I say
39:32
you network wherever you go, whether it's a department
39:34
store, grocery store, anything else. I was like,
39:37
how do you act when you're in a department store
39:40
or grocery store as when you are in a networking
39:44
event? It really shouldn't be any different.
39:47
You have to be yourself. And once you are that
39:50
way, once you listen to the other person, then
39:53
the whole world opens up. It's an amazing thing.
39:56
Once you understand that, that whole concept.
40:00
So the most impactful people are the people that
40:03
make us feel like they cared about us. Yes. And
40:07
people don't like, that's such a hack. It's such
40:10
a hack. People don't realize it because they
40:13
want to share their thing. I do this and here's
40:15
this and here's that. And here's a story and
40:16
here's this. And listen, I'm as guilty of it
40:18
as the next person. But when I purposely say,
40:22
wait a minute, I'm just going to be quiet and
40:23
listen and ask questions and learn about that
40:26
person. I've noticed that the people that I.
40:29
Because that's not my nature that I connect with
40:31
in that way. That connection is much deeper initially
40:34
than the ones who listen to my stories and laugh.
40:37
And again, there was a little bit laughter and
40:39
things like this. But when I sit and listen to
40:41
them, then they recognize me as somebody who
40:44
cares in the future. And somebody who cares versus
40:47
I don't want to go talk. He's going to tell me
40:48
a bunch of stories. You think you got a three
40:52
minute combo and you're there 25 minutes later.
40:54
That's the guy or girl that you don't want to
40:57
be. Absolutely. Very good. Dennis, I feel that
41:01
I can talk to you for the next two hours because
41:04
we are so much on the same wavelength. But if
41:08
somebody wanted to get hold of you, what's the
41:11
best way that they can get hold of you? The easiest
41:15
way is LinkedIn. Just go onto LinkedIn, type
41:17
in my name, Dennis, D -E -N -N -I -S, and then
41:20
last name Metter. I'm sure it'll be in the show
41:22
notes. Maybe this link as well, because it's
41:24
linkedin .com slash in slash Dennis Metter. So
41:28
LinkedIn's the easiest way. If they want to see
41:30
what I do and what my clients think about it
41:33
and the business side of me. go to thelegalpodcastnetwork
41:38
.com, which is my company. And so you can see
41:41
the two sides of me more like with LinkedIn,
41:45
it's more I do videos and content. And it's not
41:48
just about podcasting, although there's quite
41:49
a bit in there or branding. I talk about all
41:52
kinds of different things and just try to share
41:53
what I think could be valuable to the type of
41:55
people that I know are, at least I'm in their
41:58
feed. I don't know how much they listen to me,
42:00
but I'm in their feed. You never know. You never
42:03
know. What I found with LinkedIn, they may not
42:06
like or comment on what you've posted, but they
42:09
see it because in a month, two months, three
42:12
months, they're going to respond to you about,
42:16
say, I didn't even know you saw that post. Oh,
42:19
no, I saw it. I didn't comment or like it, but
42:22
I saw it. So you could be seeing from where everybody
42:27
goes, but you can see that. you're actually being
42:32
paid attention to. Because again, it's not your
42:35
network of people that you're talking to. It's
42:39
your network of people, the network of the network.
42:41
So you're reaching out to many more people than
42:45
what you're used to. But anyway, Dennis, I want
42:49
to tell you, I want to thank you so much for
42:51
coming on the podcast. And I hope to speak with
42:54
you soon. Absolutely. Thank you for having me
42:56
on, Michael. Hold on, folks. Don't go anywhere.
43:03
Let's hear from our sponsors. David Neal, co
43:06
-founder Revved Up Kids. Revved Up Kids is on
43:10
a mission to protect children and teens from
43:13
sexual abuse, exploitation, and trafficking.
43:16
They provide prevention training programs for
43:19
children, teens, and adults. To learn more, go
43:23
to revvedupkids .org. Henry Kaplan, Century 21.
43:27
When it comes to making the biggest financial
43:30
decision of your life, leave it in the hands
43:33
of a proven professional, Henry Kaplan. Henry
43:36
is a global real estate agent with Century 21,
43:39
celebrating his 41st year in business. No matter
43:43
where you're moving, Henry has the right connections
43:46
for you. You can contact Henry at 561 -427 -4888.
43:54
All right, folks. A huge thank you to our guests
43:58
for sharing such incredible insights today. And
44:01
of course, a big shout out to you, our amazing
44:04
listeners, for tuning in and spending your time
44:07
with us. If you're interested in my digital courses,
44:10
being coached or having me come and talk to your
44:13
company, just go to Michael and fill out the
44:17
request form. Remember, networking isn't about
44:20
being perfect. It's about being present. So take
44:24
what you've learned today. get out there, and
44:26
make some meaningful connections. If you've enjoyed
44:29
this episode, please don't forget to subscribe,
44:32
leave us a review, and share it with someone
44:35
who could use a little networking inspiration.
44:38
Let's keep the conversation going. You can find
44:41
me on Apple, Spotify, Pandora, YouTube, or my
44:45
website, foreman .com slash podcasts.