Latest / Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast / When the Parent Wants It More Than The Dancer

Transcript

When the Parent Wants It More Than The Dancer · Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast

• 0:07
  SPEAKER_02: Have you ever wondered what goes on behind the table at a dance competition?
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly what are the judges looking for anyway?
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_02: This is Making the Impact, a dance competition podcast.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_02: Each week we'll cover a different topic related to the world of competitive dance from the perspective of the judges behind the table.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_02: Poetical pressure can ruin a young person's dance experience.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_02: And unfortunately, it happens more than you think.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_02: On today's episode of Making the Impact, IDA judges and dance educators Kimberly Stoll and Kevin Grant discuss what happens when a dance parent wants it more than the dancer.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: Dance World, welcome to this week's episode of Making the Impact.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Courtney Ortiz, and I'm here with my co-host, Leslie Mailer.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_02: Courtney, it is officially our birth month.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_02: It is my birthday this weekend.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_02: It is your birthday soon, so happy early birthday.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_02: Happy early birthday to us.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yay, February babies.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yay! Yeah, hopefully we can uh have some nice celebrations and it won't be snowing or icing or doing something very February.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I'm sure it'll be absolutely freezing here in New York City on our birthdays.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: I already know.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I wanted to do something exciting for my birthday this year because I'm turning 35.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, I don't think anything exciting is gonna happen, unfortunately, because it is happening right smack dab in the middle of my insane February, which is filled with nothing but convention weekend after convention weekend.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and it just, you know, the holidays, and then it's the new year, and then all of a sudden it's competition season, and like our birthdays just come up really quickly.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_02: So I am gonna be home in Georgia celebrating my dad's 70th birthday, my 39th birthday, and my brother-in-law's 38th birthday.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, we got a lot of February birthdays in my family.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, but I'm excited for today's episode.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_02: Uh speaking of parents, because we've got a little bit of uh a parent-specific episode for y'all today.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: We do.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: So to all the dance parents out there, we know you listen.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: You are one of our primary listeners on Making the Impact.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: We love you.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: Shout out to you all.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: But this one is an episode all about you.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: So get ready, get mentally prepared for that.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you'll hear some things that you agree with, maybe you hear some things that you don't really love, but we're going there in this one, and uh, we have some great guests who are joining us.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: But before we jump into this episode, let's hear from our sponsors.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: Under the co-artistic direction of Francisco Gella and Usha Marie's Rosano, Zeitgeist Dance Theater is a summer season professional dance company based in Santa Fe, New Mexico.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: From the German word Zeit meaning time and geist meaning spirit, known as the spirit of the times, Zeitgeist Dance Theater reflects the now, the essence, and spirit of the age in which we presently live.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: Zeitgeist Dance Theater discusses topics that are difficult as if topics are not discussed, change will not come.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: A core company value is understanding what is going on in the daily atmosphere and having a response for the future.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: The company also offers a trainee experience, providing emerging professional artists from ages 17 to 24 with a taste of professional company life.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_00: The company's trainees are selected annually through an audition process to participate in a three-week integrated company experience during the summer, culminating in a performance at the New Century Dance Project Festival.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: Applications for the trainee experience are due by February 19th, 2024.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: Learn more about Zeitgeist Dance Theater and their trainee experience by visiting their website at ZeitgeistDanceTheater.org.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_02: Do you ever wish your socks could give you a foot massage while you dance?
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_02: With Apolish Shocks, consider it done.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_02: Snag a pair of their Dance Compression socks now, and use our exclusive podcast promo code Impact10 in all caps in the promo box at checkout for 10% off.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_02: Your feet will feel like they're on Cloud9.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, and PS, they have a satisfaction guarantee with free returns and exchanges.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_02: So you have nothing to lose, but everything to gain.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_02: Visit ApolloPerformance.com to order yours now.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_02: That's A-P-O-L-L-A-Performance.com.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: Alright, danceworld.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: We are jumping into this week's episode, and it's a hot one, not gonna lie.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's for all the parents out there.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you should be given a listen right now.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: Listen hard because we're gonna be diving deep into some sensitive topics that you might not love, but you gotta hear it, y'all.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: You have to hear it.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: It is an important one.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: We all have dance parents that are taking the dancers to the studios, and there's a lot of dancers who love the dance, but there's might be some parents who love this dance world more than the dancer.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: Might be them their heart might not be in it, but the parent's heart is in it.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: Or maybe the parent is living through their child and because they didn't have the chance to have dance in their life when they were young, or whatever the case may be.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna cover all of these topics and chat with two IDA judges and special guests who are joining us on this chat.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: The first guest I'm excited to welcome back to our podcast is an IDA judge who has been on our roster for many, many years.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: She is a former studio owner and an active teacher in the New England area.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: And you may remember her all the way back from season two, episode 31, making the most out of your classes in studio and online.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you remember, back then it was the pandemic.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: So we were doing a lot of online dancing back then.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm excited to welcome Kimberly Soul to the podcast.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome, Kimberly.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for having me.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: You're so welcome.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: And it's actually really interesting.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: I listened to that episode.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: I decided to randomly just pick an episode and listen to like a few months ago.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I picked that one and I was that's smart.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: I kind of just wanted to like hear what we sounded like in season two, which we've come a long way.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: But I wanted to hear like what we talked about in that chat because I think it's important, like the things we covered in that episode was were really important, even just about like etiquette in the classroom, which I think we need to do another one.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: But then the whole like online side of it, I was like, what did we talk about?
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: I have to know.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: So, and it's still relevant because people are still taking class online.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's true.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: So so happy to have you back on the pod, Kim.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: Happy to be here.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: Well, if you wouldn't mind since it's been a minute, could you tell the world a little bit more about you, where you're based, where you grew up, what your dance training was like, and what you're working on.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I am based in New England.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, this is actually my 20th year teaching.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my goodness.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um for 10 of those years, I actually owned a studio in Massachusetts.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: I sold that studio in 2019, which turned out to be for the best.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: I was pregnant with my first and needed to commit to that.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: Now I have two amazing little boys ages four and two, so they keep me on my toes.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I teach at an incredible studio in Massachusetts, as well as work with a local theater choreographing a lot of their productions and appearing in a lot of their productions.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: And then I also work with a couple of private schools choreographing their musicals.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: Love it.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: You are busy busy.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: A little.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: And then judging all season long as well.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yay, judging season.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's I love it.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm excited to hear your perspective on this because, as you said, for as a former studio owner, I'm sure that you've dealt with this situation many times throughout your your time as a studio owner and possibly currently as an active teacher.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: So oh yes.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: Well, can't wait to chat with you.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for being here.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: All right, and our next special guest is an IDA judge, and he's brand new on our roster as of this season.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: We're so excited to have him.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: And he's also the owner of the Grant training program, which he's about to tell you all about.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'm excited to welcome Kevin Grant to our podcast.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome, Kevin.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for having me.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, everyone.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I'm so happy that you are here with us today.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm so excited that you're on the IDA roster this season.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_04: Me too.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yay.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Kevin, could you tell us a little bit more about you, where you're where you grew up, where you're based, what you're working on now, any professional credits, and a little bit more about the grant training program.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, sure, absolutely.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm from Fort Wayne, Indiana.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_04: I grew up here and I went to a magnet arts school.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_04: So they introduced the arts to you very early, starting in kindergarten.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_04: So through that, I decided that I I really enjoyed ballet.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_04: So I enrolled through school at first and then I danced at Fort Wayne Ballet, which is now a professional company and school here in town at the time.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_04: It was just a school.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_04: Through that, I went through various summer intensives and uh then I went to Butler University here in Indiana for a year.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_04: I uh came back and decided that I wanted to just start trying to decide what I wanted to do.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_04: I wasn't quite sure yet.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_04: So there was this local school here that I was like their male dancer and did their male dancer parts, and through that I started teaching and I realized that I just really had a passion for it.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_04: And then I danced semi-professionally.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_04: I did a tour in Malaysia and Australia, New Zealand.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_04: But my passion always really lied with students.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_04: So then I ended up teaching for that school for 10 years, became the assistant director.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_04: Through that, we had kids that um got accepted to all the major programs: SAB, PNB, um, a student dance for New York City, Ballet, Ballet Austin, all different types of companies.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and then I just decided that I wanted to do something different.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_04: So I decided to start teaching for competitive studios.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_04: So I started teaching for a studio called Tiffany and Company Studio of Dance, which I still teach for.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_04: I'm the ballet director.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_04: And it just opened my eyes.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_04: I started going to conventions.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_04: My very first convention was actually Monsters of Hip Hop.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_04: And it just Oh wow.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it was crazy and I loved it.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_04: I loved the energy, and I just realized that these kids wanted to have good ballet training, but they just didn't have access to it because a lot of the ballet schools were saying it's either us or them, you know, and so they didn't really want to work with them.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_04: And so I realized, you know, like, hey, there's a place for that.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_04: So it's kind of a niche market, and so I created my program.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_04: And so all of my students dance at all other studios, so they go to various studios and they come to me for their ballet training because it's just a training-based program and not a performance-based program.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_04: So they're just literally coming here to get really good training, but we're not, I'm not requiring them to do a nutcracker or a summer intensive or anything.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_04: I'm just simply making them better for what they want to do.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_04: And so that in that way, I don't feel any ownership over the students or over their training.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_04: And then the studio owners feel really comfortable because they know I'm not trying to take their students.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_04: And I go to all this, you know, studios recitals and I go to all the conventions and competitions that I can go to because I sort of feel like I'm just an ambassador for the art and I don't have any ownership over anybody else.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_04: So through that, I like to guest teach and I judge and everything.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_04: So yeah, I'm in my fifth year of having my program, and so far, so good.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_02: That's so smart.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_02: Really love that.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_02: And like you said, it's that's so refreshing because nobody feels like you're coaching anyone.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_02: You're just trying to help where some of the other studios may not have the time, the resources, the et cetera, like you do.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_02: So what how nice is that?
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_02: That's amazing.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, thank you very much.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm really inspired by that.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: That is so smart and so fantastic.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: I wish that more studios would be on board with these types of opportunities.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: And if that does exist in your in your area, like take advantage of it, studios, because we always talk about how we need more ballet, ballet, ballet all the time.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: Ballet, ballet, ballet, technique, technique.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: And you're doing some at the studios, but there's only so much time even in the studio schedule.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe there's dancers that want more, but the studio can't provide it, or they're like taking dancing down and not at their level, or whatever the reason is.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that's so smart of what that what you created.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: So congrats on that.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you very much.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: All right, y'all.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: Let's jump into this very hot topic.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_02: Whew, yes.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_02: I was saying before we started that, you know, this is a little people want to tiptoe around this because it's not a comfortable thing to talk about, you know, it there's it's a very vulnerable conversation, you know, when you're talking about that a parent that might be pushing their dancer farther than they want to go themselves.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_02: But like I said, and I was very pleased with myself about this, we're gonna just bust through this topic like the Kool-Aid man through a wall because we have to talk about it.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_02: I think people need to hear some of the thoughts that we all have, especially from our two studio owner perspectives, uh, program, you know, director perspective and former studio owner, because you know, y'all are the ones that have really dealt firsthand with parents and placement and conversations about things.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_02: So I guess have you either either of you experienced this before in your in your years teaching and and directing and owning things?
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I'm experience it right now, actually.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_04: I think I I offer privates, a lot of privates, every week.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_04: And I think sometimes parents think quantity equals quality.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_04: And I have to explain to them often that, you know, I'm only gonna give your child one private a week.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_04: And I really would like to see more progress in their group classes.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_04: Because if they can only work one-on-one, how are they gonna really prepare themselves to work in the greater dance world, no matter what genre you're doing?
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_04: You know, and I think sometimes they think because they have the resources to pay for it, and so they're just throw, throw, throw.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm like, we're not really doing anything of substance in these privates because they're not able to retain because it's they're not passionate about it, you know.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_04: But I think sometimes parents aren't ready to receive that, and that's you know, like where it gets tricky sometimes.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_04: It's not like I want to push you out of the door, you know.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_04: But at the same time, I'm also trying to say, like, hey, like maybe we need to rethink this whole 20 privates a week thing.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that exists.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: People do that.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, yeah.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, there's some people, I mean, I think there's some people that use training, just use private lessons as a method of training.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_04: So that way they don't have to be attached to a studio, you know.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_04: So like when you see like an independent student, lots of times they literally only train privately and they're not attached to a studio.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_04: That's and it's really prevalent in the ballet world, especially, but it's definitely in the I've found it more and more common in the convention and competition world as well.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, I literally had no idea.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: I had no idea that someone's taking 20 privates a week.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like that is out of control.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: We also did a private lessons episode, and I think it's really smart that you brought that up right away because I do feel like that is when the parent, because it's it's that, it's um that extra supplemental training that isn't required.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: The privates probably aren't required.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's probably you can afford to to offer this to your child, so you are, and maybe your child doesn't want to be in privates 20 times a week.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's crazy to me.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: Anything to add, Kimberly?
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I absolutely have encountered this many, many, many times.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: Thankfully, the studio I'm at right now, we don't really have this issue for the most part.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: But when I ran my studio, I did have a lot of parents who wanted it desperately.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: And the the student didn't necessarily match that passion, and it definitely became an issue in the long run.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think in in those instances that you can remember was like what's the root of it?
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_02: Is it because the parent didn't have the opportunity?
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_02: Is it because they want to see their child succeed at something and this is what they've picked?
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like, where does it come from, do you think?
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's it's kind of a case-by-case basis.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: For some of the parents, it's because they never had that in their childhood and they really wanted to have that opportunity.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: For others, when I was running my studio, dance moms was like a big deal.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: So we were apparently trying to match that like dance mom energy.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: Oh gosh.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: Which yikes wasn't my favorite thing in the entire world.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: Nope.
• 16:20
  unknown: Yeah.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's definitely a case-by-case basis for every parent.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: Wouldn't you think the dance moms would like watch that show and be like, I don't want to be like that?
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: And it's it's not, it's not supposed to be inspiration for them to act like the crazy dance moms on the television show.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: It should be an eye-opening, rude awakening, like, oh gosh, is this really how dance parents act?
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: I am never gonna act like that, but I'm not sure if it really fixed the problem.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_02: No, sadly, I don't think it did.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_02: I think dance moms didn't fix a lot of things.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, contributed to a lot of problems.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: That's true.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: If it was me, if you one shoe.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: Oh god.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yes.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: Oh god, so many things.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: I that is that is a big question, Leslie, as far as like where why does this happen and where does it come from?
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: And and kind of like what you were saying, and I I really think it does come back to the opportunity.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe the parent didn't have that when they were young.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe they danced, but maybe they weren't good.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe they saw see potential in their kid and see that their kid is good and they could do this and they want to push them because they wanted that's what their dream was when they were young.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: Or maybe their their parents didn't have the funds to be able to invest into the proper training or the quality training or the accessibility of it at the time, like kind of living that dream out through their kid is what comes to mind for me when I see.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm even gonna go, I'm not in a studio regularly, so I don't feel like I see this.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: But let's be real, we can kind of tell, even when I'm at dance conventions, I can kind of tell the parents that are sitting around the perimeter of the room and who's really invested in it and who's just kind of like enjoying the time and letting their kid do their thing.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: But like, there are so many times where I see like little tiny baby seven-year-olds come out on stage in the most blinged-out costume I've ever seen in my life.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: That costume probably costs like$800, at least a minimum.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: Kid is not excited to be on stage at all.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: At all, like could not care less about being on stage.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just you can read it, you can feel it in their body language.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: You can tell that like they're uncomfortable, they're not excited, they're not prepared, they're not ready to do this.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: And to me, when I see that and it's primarily like the blinged out costume, it feels forced and pressured because we could have put any costume on there and we could have just let them go and do some whatever on stage, just spin around and have a good time with a smile on their face.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: But everything feels really forced at that point.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: And it makes me sad for the dancer because I'm like, I think that they would rather just be hanging out with their friends in the dressing room and watching TV right now, but instead we put them in this costume and shoved them up on stage.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm just kind of like, why?
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we got we like I think like the parents have to kind of read that a little bit.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: And even the studios, like obviously the studios are probably like, well, you know, mom wanted the kid to have the solo, so I guess we'll give her the solo, but I don't even think the kid wants to do the solo.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there has to be some, I don't know.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: Did you have you ever dealt with that, Kimberly?
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: Because like I feel like if I was a studio owner, I would be like, I want like that's great.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: You your kid wants a solo, but number one, they're not ready, they're not, they they don't focus in class, like whatever the reasoning is, there it shouldn't just be like everyone gets one.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: That's just my perspective correct.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: So when I ran my studio, solos were earned.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't just something you could pay for.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I've kind of made it a point, now that I don't own my studio, to work for studios who have that same mindset because that whole like pay-to-play situation creates a lot of problems.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: And it does create those children who are being forced up on stage in these crazy outfits, and they're really not.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: It looks traumatic to me, to be honest.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: As a judge, my heart breaks, and as a mom, my heart breaks even more because yes, as a parent, I want to give my child every opportunity I possibly can, but I also want to make sure that my child is healthy and happy and comfortable in their own skin and you know, prepared.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_02: And it's just well, and you just you said something that I think is important to point out.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_02: You want to give your child every opportunity that you can.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_02: But I think the caveat to that is that they also want.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like here, horseback riding, ice skating, you know, jujitsu, whatever.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I don't want all those things, mom.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_02: I want this thing.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think that's like for parents to understand, like, yeah, even though you can, you don't have to, you shouldn't, you know, find the thing they really love.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_02: And if that's not dance, you know, give give it a year or two.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_02: And if it's really not that, then move on, you know.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_02: It's I'm curious to know from Kevin, since you're not in your program, it's not necessarily a competitive environment, a performance-based environment.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_02: But what does that energy, that like pressury dance mom energy, do to the environment in the studio?
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_02: Because you can already, we can already sort of tell what happens in a competitive environment.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you you get even more of that sort of pressure amongst the kids.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_02: But how do you feel that way in the studio and your training program?
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_04: I don't necessarily feel that in my because I try to combat that in the studio.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_04: You know, I think a big thing about my program is that I always say, like, all these kids that normally wouldn't have spoken to each other have now become best friends.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_04: And that's what's really important to me because I'm building those relationships now.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_04: So I see studio owners talk to other studio owners.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_04: I see those parents talk to other parents because I don't tolerate that with and with my own program.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_04: And so I kind of feel like it starts at the head.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_04: So if they know that that's not who I am.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_04: Am as at my core, and that's not how I'm gonna have my program, and that's not the type of students that I want, then you know, then it just doesn't even infiltrate my atmosphere.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_04: You know what I mean?
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_04: Because I've had to, since I'm the only teacher, my program is so small.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_04: So I've had students that I have said no to because of their parents, because I know that that will create a toxic environment in the studio.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_04: And that's not what I want because I want all those kids to support each other.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_04: I want them to all be clapping for each other, I want them to all be happy for each other.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_04: So, you know, as far as for me and my program, I just don't tolerate it at all.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_04: So it doesn't even exist.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: Hey dancers, if you're looking for that extra edge, let me introduce you to Apollo Shocks.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: They've got scientific proof to back up their cushioning capabilities, helping you feel more secure and comfortable with every step or a leap.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: And you know me, I wouldn't recommend anything I haven't tried myself.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: I wear my Apollo Shocks all the time, especially when teaching and dancing at convention.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: They offer such great art support and compression for quick post-class recovery.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I highly recommend all dancers having a pair in their dance bag.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: Use the code Impact10 in all caps in the promo box at checkout for 10% off your order of your new pair of Apollo Shock compression dance socks.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: Plus, they offer free returns and exchanges.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: Learn more and view all of their sock variations now at ApolloPerformance.com.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: That's APOLA Performance.com.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: And now let's get back to the episode.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_02: How do you?
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so curious, like what does that actually look like?
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_02: Like when you've had to say no to somebody who wants to be training with you and you just get a vibe or you get the feeling or whatever.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_02: Like, how do you think that's a good idea?
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I'm just very professional and I just say, you know, I don't at this time, I don't think my program is a great fit.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_04: I would recommend this program, this program, and that program.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_04: Please let me know if I can be of service best, Kevin Grove.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_04: Perfect.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_04: You know, because I think sometimes the more you explain yourself, yeah, the more then you have to explain yourself again, you know.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_04: So if I just kind of like, this isn't this is the answer to your question, and you know, and move it on, but not in a rude way or a demeaning way.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_04: And still when I see those parents or those students, I'm still very happy and you know, clap for them and talk to them and stuff.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_04: It just is, I mean, I think they get the point, you know.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's a part of doing business, I think.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: And it's it's it's a tough thing when we are business owners and we choose who we want to do business with and who we don't want to do business with.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: And that's okay.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: We are allowed to say no, we are allowed to turn down customers because it needs to fit into what our expectations are to run our business successfully.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I think I'm sure all of us have gone through that exact thing.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I have many, many times with, and I'm gonna be transparent with different competition companies that I want to bring on with IDA.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_00: If we don't align in what our expectations are out of this service, out of this agreement, it's not gonna go well.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not even worth the business.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's not worth my time, energy, frustration to put time into that.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: If it's just gonna be more work than it's worth.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_00: And creating those safe studio environments are so crucial to the success of your dancers.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: So for you to be able to be strong enough, because there's a lot, I'm sure there are a lot of studio owners out there who are like, man, I wish, I wish I could do that.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: I wish I could, you know, say no or put my foot down or let go of this parent who's toxic in the environment.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm sure that exists everywhere.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: But I do, I do think that those types of things need to be squashed immediately.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: And uh this just it's not good for the rest of your clients as well.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: 100%.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: So what about the dancers themselves?
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: So we've talked a little bit about, you know, what we what we see and what we feel and the vibe we get from the parents, but what about what do you see from those dancers?
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: Is there like just within the classroom setting?
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: Is there a lack of motivation from these particular dancers?
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: Do you do you feel like they uh can't take corrections or don't apply the corrections if they're given to them?
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: Or are they hyper-focused and so so on their game?
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: And is that because they want to get better, or is that because of the pressure of their parent and wanting to please their parent?
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's so many ways.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm sure you can't get into the mind of a of your student right now, but I'm sure you've kind of seen that energy from certain students who have particular parents who are like this.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: So anything come to mind?
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: Honestly, I see the kids who have the overbearing parents are usually highly anxious.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like they're trying to please everybody.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like they're gonna have many, many years of therapy ahead of them to learn the coping mechanisms that just didn't happen when they were a kid because they were forced into all of this.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_01: And it again, it breaks my heart because it's just it's not necessary.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the good point.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I think for the kids, I see lots of times those particular ones are focused about the wrong things.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_04: Like they're the ones that are constantly looking to see if I'm looking at them in the room.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_04: They're the ones that are like never really know the combination because they're always watching someone else or they're looking out of the window, you know, and they'd rather be somewhere else.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_03: Well, you'd rather be out there.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_04: And I try to explain that, you know, sometimes, but it's hard because again, it goes back to like if the parent is ready to receive what it is that I'm saying, you know, because I'm not gonna be blunt, you know.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_04: So that's I, you know, I'm I'm trying to be sensitive to their feelings and to the kid and stuff, but sometimes it just is like, man, this parent just really isn't hearing me, you know, because again, I I also don't want to, especially if I'm working for another studio or something, you know, I'm not well, you know, I want them to keep retain the student and retain the customer and stuff.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_04: But you do see that sometimes where it's like, you know, the parent will say, How is you know Susie doing?
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_04: And I say, Oh, you know, I would just like for her to be a little bit more focused, you know, but and you know, and then she asks me again in a couple of weeks, and it's still the same answer.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm thinking to myself, well, like it's you know, when I say that, you don't even ask me for to explain it any further because I'd be happy to like what I mean by that is actually, you know, like, have you tried something else?
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_04: You know, because this has been her third year and this has been the tenth time that you've asked me this, and I've had the same answer.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_04: So maybe, you know, we should rethink this.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and then you wonder, like, okay, so you your answer was, I would like to see her be more focused.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_02: Well, then what does the parent turn around and go do with to the k to with the kid?
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_02: Like, is she is the mom saying, You need to be more focused.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_02: But may I wonder the question doesn't seem to be from parent to child is, are you having fun?
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_02: Are you do you still like doing this?
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_02: Because if you don't like doing this, we don't have to do this anymore.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_02: But like that doesn't seem to be the conversation because she keeps coming back and getting the same feedback from you, right?
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_02: Right, absolutely.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_04: Well, because I think at that point, then it's more about the parent because they are waiting for me to tell her that Susie is doing a good job so she can tell her friend that's my Susie is doing a great job and dance, you know, because the pressure of social media now, even the parents, like they want everyone else to know that their kid is successful because they're an extension of themselves.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_04: So it doesn't matter if it's a class or if it's a convention, they need to have something from that to validate that.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_04: So they just, I think you know, lots of times they're not even necessarily really concerned if Susie is doing well.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_04: They're concerned if I'm gonna tell them that she's doing well so they can have bragging right about it.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and we just talked about this in our awards ceremony chat.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_02: Like Susie got first place.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that sounds great to somebody who doesn't understand that there's 25 first places.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_02: But like you said, the the power of social media and the comparison game, even among parents, I think so much more now, maybe than even when we were growing up, is just insane because you want to post your kid with the first place.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_02: You want to post your kid got a solo.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like, my kid's special, uh, therefore I'm special.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_02: I created that, therefore I am special too.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_02: Like, and I don't have kids, but you know, one can only imagine that that's something that goes through somebody's head.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: Because there's the extra pressure of every kid needs to, like, if you are a competitive, successful dancer, you're supposed to have an Instagram attached to that to show off your accolades and show off your awards and show off the training that you're doing and all of the things.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like parents feel obligated to like essentially like become marketing experts and branding their kids on social media at such a young age.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_00: And if they don't have anything to talk about on that page, then they're gonna feel like they aren't succeeding.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_00: And it is an extra layer of crazy pressure.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's so interesting that we're talking about it from the parent side because I didn't even think about that.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: I always just think about social media and the and the actual dancer themselves, the actual kid who is seeing the societal pressure of what is success um through the lens of social media.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_00: And now it's the parent is also seeing that.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like two people for one, you know.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: For me, I've only known social media as an adult.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like that wasn't really, you know, like if you remember my space that came out like, you know, when I was in high school.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: So like I was almost an adult.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I got a little taste of that as in the teenage years.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_00: But like the real deal of what we know as Instagram and TikTok and everything didn't really come within, you know, since the past 10 years.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: So like I can't imagine what that's like growing up with it as a young child, but then also having mom lingering over saying, make sure you get this action shot and post this.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_00: And oh, we got to make sure we get a photo with your scholarship this weekend from convention to post it.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, oh my gosh, can't we just like let the kids just train and have fun and love dance and not feel like it always has to be broadcasted 24-7?
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_04: 100%.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_02: There's like there's a little meme that goes around around graduation time every year.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_02: It's usually on Facebook because it's text-based, but it says something about, you know, like, make sure you congratulate the kid who doesn't have the the the banners and the ribbons and the scholarships and the they they graduated from high school.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_02: That is something.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_02: You don't have like all these other things are awesome too, but that kid did something as well.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that needs to translate into dance too, even almost even more because it is extracurricular.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_02: And we are, if you're able to pay for that extra thing, that in itself is an achievement and something special and exciting.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_02: So why does it have to be the next step of, oh, we have to get a scholarship, we have to, you know, have a solo, all this stuff?
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_02: Like, isn't it enough?
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_02: Can't it be enough that Sally just takes dance and she loves it?
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_02: That should just be enough.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to speak on like the teachers' end of this discussion for a split second because I do think it's really important what you just said, Leslie, that she that they love it.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_00: That they love it.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_00: It has to be something that they love.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_00: Let's be real.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: And we're and we're a competitive dance podcast, so we're kind of talking about that.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_00: But competitive dance is not a cheap hobby.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: They need to like to do this.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_00: They they they should be excited to go to the studio.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, sometimes it feels repetitive.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, there's going to be days that you're like, I don't want to go to the studio today.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to train today.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_00: Can I just stay home?
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, we all feel that.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_00: We feel as adults, we feel that with work.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's a normal feeling to feel that.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_00: But you should be excited when it's competition weekend.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_00: You should be excited to have that final dress rehearsal and put your costume up for the first time.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: You should be excited to get together with your friends and learn a group routine at choreography camp.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like if there is not excitement and it's and it's just like grudge and I don't want to do this and mom, why are you making me go?
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're getting that type of pushback from your kid, I don't know if it's the right fit for them.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_00: It shouldn't, it shouldn't be pressure.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_00: Just because you as a parent have invested however much money you chose to invest in this, doesn't mean that they need to continue to do this.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I that's the other part of it that I think is really tough is the money aspect because it isn't cheap.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I can I can only imagine as a parent, like, oh, all of a sudden now my kid wants to stop when I've already put probably$20,000,$30,000 into their training and competition fees.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_00: That's gotta be a hard pill to swallow on the parent end.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_00: And we say all the time, it's okay if dancers don't want to go on to pursue professional careers.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: But if a dancer quits before they've graduated, then it's an issue.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's just confuse, it's just interesting to me, you know, where we choose to put the money in in something like that might just be a hobby, but it needs to be a hobby they love to do.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_00: And on the teacher's end, it is so extremely hard.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm letting you know we are all talented teachers here on this podcast.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_00: It is the hardest job in the world to motivate a dancer who doesn't want to be in that room.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: It is like pulling teeth.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: It is so hard.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_00: I cannot describe it.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like, even I'm sure teachers at school deal with that because everyone learns differently and a lot of kids don't want to be there and they have to be there.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I get it.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_00: And our job is to educate them and inspire them and teach them.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_00: But there's only at a point, there's only so much that you can do when that kid is just wants nothing to do with it in the room.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_00: But the mom is like, oh, they look so great, they're doing so well.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yet it's, you know, and it's like, no, they're not, they're not focused.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_00: They don't want to be here.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: I have to correct them 24-7.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_00: They're disrupting class.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it is it is a hard thing for teachers to handle.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_04: For sure.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_04: But I think, you know, it goes back because I just I just went to the first convention of the season.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_04: And I think sometimes it's because those moms like the socialization of it all.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_04: You know, they like being with their friends, they like putting their kids in their Lululemon with their Stanley cups, they like sitting with their designer purses and like, you know, being like, which hotel are we going to next weekend?
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_04: When are we going out for drinks?
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with that, but sometimes I like, wouldn't it be get better for you guys just to get together in your own hometown and like have fun and have a girl's night at your house versus like dragging your kids to be up every morning at 5 a.m.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_04: and you're arguing with them to get their hair ready and picking out outfits and doing all this if they don't want to be there, you know?
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_04: And I, you know, I'll look at a convention room and sometimes it'll be like, I mean, 50% of those kids, you can tell that they're just like their mom made them come because they have to come, and they're just the ones that's standing in the back, and they're like, Oh, my group got called again to go out to the center.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_04: And it just is so sad because you know, I mean, yeah, their parents spent$500 for them to go there that weekend, and they're like just chilling in the back with the ponytail, you know, and it's it's sad.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_04: Doing costs and yeah, and I always say the the one thing I can't teach a kid is energy.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_04: So if like they don't have any energy because they don't want to be there, I don't know what you want me to do.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_02: That's internal.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_02: You can't motivate that into somebody who just doesn't have it, doesn't work that way.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_01: Part of me understands where those moms are coming from because being a mother can be extremely isolating and you crave those adult interactions, but there's healthier ways of finding that adult interaction, like join a playgroup or something, but you don't need your social interaction, does not need to be directly connected to what your child is doing all the time.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_02: And even if even if it is, even if that's the easiest thing to do, like again, if it's not dance, it might be something else.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_02: Go find the soccer moms, go find the the book club moms.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_02: There's so many uh activities out there.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_02: There's a mom there.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_02: She's probably cool.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_02: You could go hang out with her and get your glass of wine while, you know, after the soccer game or whatever.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_02: And that's that's just kind of what I wonder too.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_02: Like you said, uh Kevin at at the conventions, like and and I I do love to see a a like dance mom group who are like great friends and people who you know have been friends for life because their kids have been friends for life.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_02: But those those groups make it to high school graduation because all those kids really want to be there.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, I I wonder, Kevin, how old are is your youngest like private student at your at your school?
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_02: I would say eight years old is the youngest I'll do a private with.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_02: So what like I'm just wondering how often do you see this dance mom energy kid doesn't want to be there in the later years of dance?
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_02: Because hope, I mean, I'm hoping that maybe by 10, 11, we've all figured out, hey, Sally doesn't love this.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe I'm gonna check myself as my as the mom and say, you know what, if you want to stop, let's stop.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_02: Let's find something else.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_02: But like, I'm sure those poor kids pit her into high school and are still being pushed to do this.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_02: Like, do you happen to see that with any of your older kids?
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_02: Or by by the time they get to you, do you think that's gone away or they filter themselves out?
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_04: I always say 13 is the telling age because that's when they start to, you know, things change internally, physically.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_04: And then that's sometimes when I can tell, you know, that there's been a shift because they either they're interested in other things and activities.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_04: And then that's normally when I try to have a conversation with parents, if it's appropriate, to just be like, you know, is this really what we want to still be doing?
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_04: Is this the track that you still want them to be on?
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_04: Especially if they're because all of my students are also going to another studio.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_04: So this is on top of that, so it's an increased cost.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_04: So, you know, I like to be very upfront with them of like if you know they just want to take like one rec jazz class at their studio and not have to be dancing six days a week, like maybe we need to have that conversation, you know.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_04: And normally I would say that it happens about at age 13, and then it'll be like that whole year they kind of figured it out, and then the next year they're either back to being super committed or they've just decided that that's not what they want to do anymore.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_04: So normally for me, it's about 13.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I've experienced it at all ages, to be honest, and some of the worst cases were students that were 15, 16, 17, 18.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_02: And it's and that is just heartbreaking.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, I I don't know what I I worry for that the 18-year-old who doesn't actually know what she wants to do or loves to do because she's never been given the opportunity.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I and I think a lot of times too, once you get to that age, if you've if you've gotten to that point in your life and you've been forced to do something that you don't love, you're probably also not very good at it.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_02: I I don't often see, you know, if if you've gotten to 18, most of the time you love this and you're probably good at it because you've done it for so long.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_02: But like I think you said, there's there's these like moments where sometimes you're at competition and you're like, okay, how did we get here?
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_02: Because you're 18, you're you're not as technically advanced as I would expect, and you don't look very happy.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's that that is where I can you can almost pinpoint, okay, somebody made you do this, your mom made you do this.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't know, it just it does break my heart because you know, every you have such a hard time as a young adult anyway, even if you do already know what you want to do and love and got got to do it with no outside pressure.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's still really hard to be 18, 19.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_02: Like, but then you have that scenario where you know, you just have never been able to do what you really want to do and you don't even know what that is.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_02: That sucks.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's a that's a tough feeling to feel because I feel like looking back on my life growing up, I always loved dance.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_00: I was it's crazy for me to even watch some of these old videos of like these home videos my mom randomly sends me of me just like dancing in my living room.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_00: I've always been dancing.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_00: It was like apparent that this is what I'm supposed to do.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_00: I loved doing it when I was at not at the studio, I was dancing.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_02: Just axles across your room, just multiple axles at 10 years old.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, like it's and I see that, and like I don't remember that, but like I see that and I'm like, wow, maybe this really was my calling.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's why we put our kids in dance, not because you think they should be a dancer, because they were act maybe bouncing around in the living room and they were two years old and they got rhythm or whatever the reason may be.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that's why we put our kids in dance.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_00: So if they love it, it's very noticeable for us, even like you said, Leslie, as a like as a senior level dancer, I should it shouldn't feel fake and forced at that point.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_00: It should be coming from somewhere deeper.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_00: You have lived some life experiences.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_00: You maybe have gotten your heart broken by then.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_00: We can dig deep and find those emotions at 17, 18 in the senior division and perform with real emotions.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_00: And we can tell if it's like slapped on, pressured, fake acting performance, or this is real, I believe you, I can tell you love this wow.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the dancer that's gonna probably get first overall over the other dancer that's over-rehearsed and has a generic smile on their face.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like you said, you kind of have to love it by that point.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_00: If you're not loving it by 17, 18, what are we doing?
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_00: Wasting money, wasting time.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_00: You could have been learning a new skill, you could have been finding something else that you're really excited about.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that when the those dancers get pressured to dance for that long, it makes them fall out of love of dance.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe they did have that passion when they were younger.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_00: And then maybe there was that shift.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe the mom or dad didn't get the hint and wouldn't lay off on how intense they were behind the scenes or, you know, at home when it comes to the ex.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: Their expectation of this dancer.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you have to make sure you're doing this.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_00: Why aren't you doing that?
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_00: Have you thought about this?
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you have to make sure you're in training every single day.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like that pressure, I can only imagine a dancer is probably like, gosh, I really hate this.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_00: Is this what I'm signing up for?
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_00: Is this what you really is?
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_00: Should I actually make a career out of this?
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to do this.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that's absolutely what's going on in a teenager's head.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_00: Because, like you said, Kevin, 13 is that year where they're kind of about to go into high school and they're figuring themselves out and what they like.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_00: And then parent is just like on them about dance 24-7.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's gotta be a lot to take in as a kid.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_04: Absolutely.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_04: And then I mean you add that like on top of college and their homework and stuff, you know, especially like junior year where it gets really hard and they're already, you know, their parents are saying, you know, you gotta do this and you gotta do that.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_04: What school are you applying to?
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_04: And then if you're adding that on top of an activity that you're doing daily that you don't really enjoy, you know, I would I that's the perfect, you know, recipe for an unhappy teenager right there, you know.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_04: And I always say too, you know, that those people are gonna be the people that come to watch shows later on that are gonna keep dance in the forefront.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_04: And so we need to make sure that also too, that their mental health is happy for dance because when they have children, we want them to put them in dance class, right?
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_04: We want them to go to the dance movies and to go see Taylor Swift and Beyonce and the ballet and stuff.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_04: But if they have a bad connection with dance, because whether it's the teacher, the studio, or the parent pressuring them, later on in life they're gonna have trauma associated with that.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_04: And then where are we gonna be, you know, as far as dance educators?
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_00: Zeitgeist Dance Theater, co-directed by Francisco Gella and Usha Marie Zorzano, is a professional dance company located in Santa Fe, New Mexico.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_00: In addition to its professional company, Zeitgeist Dance Theater offers a training experience for emerging artists ages 17 to 24.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_00: This immersive program provides a glimpse into professional company life, including both training and performance opportunities that play a significant role in preparing trainees for a future professional performance career.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_00: The trainee schedule runs parallel to that of a professional company dancer and their apprentices, rounding out the week experience in a performance at the New Century Dance Project Festival.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_00: To apply for the training experience, aspiring dancers must audition and submit their application by February 19th, 2024.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_00: For additional information about Zeitgeist Dance Theater and its trainee experience, visit their website at zeitgeist dance theater.org.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and I also think too that like I feel like there's also a stigma of dancers, and maybe this happens with athletes too.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_02: I don't really know.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_02: But like quitting something feels like it has a stigma.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_02: It feels like a negative thing.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I danced for 10 years, but I quit.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_02: You know, that doesn't there's a stigma.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't, it's like, oh, you couldn't follow through.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_02: Why didn't you keep going?
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_02: You were so good.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_02: What if they were really good and they just also didn't love it?
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_02: That that happens too.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_02: But so I think there maybe needs to be some like grace applied to the parent and the student when it becomes apparent that the student just doesn't like it anymore.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_02: The parent, you know, first of all, needs to realize that and understand it, but give grace to themselves and to the child that like people quit things all the time.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_02: And it doesn't mean you're a bad person.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't mean that you didn't at one point love it.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_02: And people change, life changes, and like that's okay.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_02: And because there's just so many other awesome things out there to do.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_02: And if you are dancing 24-7 with 20 privates a week and you're at your studio, there's no time to explore those things.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and like you said, I Kevin, I really love what you said that like those those kids that drop hopefully are dropping still with like a appreciation of what they just did for 10 years, so that in 10 years, they're gonna buy the ticket when Alvin Ailey comes to town.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like you have to have those people who said, Oh yeah, I used to dance.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_02: I really loved that.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe they'll go to the adult ballet class after the societal, you know, the parent pressure's gone.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_02: Who knows?
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_04: With your point with stigma, I would say, you know, I think that really starts with the leaders at the studio too.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_04: You know, when the kid says that they don't want to dance anymore, you know, as long as the studio is still like really supportive of that and um this especially the studio owner.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_04: So the next year when auditions happen, you know, it's not like, oh, Susie, you know, she couldn't make it or she couldn't make the cut, you know.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_04: You know, I think sometimes we have to be make sure making sure that we're responsible with our word choices because those kids all still go to school together, you know.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_04: So we don't want them to make Susie now feel different because you know, she decided that she wanted to invest in a different activity.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_04: So, you know, I think that really has to do sometimes with the studio owners or the directors too, just having a positive mentality about it.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's a trickle-down effect.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_01: As a studio owner, you set the tone for your program.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_01: And even with expectations for parents, like sit down with those parents at the beginning of the year and tell them what you expect out of them, what's acceptable, what's not acceptable, and go from there so that you're setting that bar.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like let it all trickle down because it'll it's gonna work in your favor in the long run.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_00: That's great advice.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I was just sitting here thinking about how hard it has to be to be a parent in general.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_00: But then, um, because I'm obviously not a parent, but I'm just thinking about like a dancer who learned choreography in rehearsal and then came back the next week and didn't know the choreography.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_00: You know, whose fault is that?
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_00: Is the teacher blaming the child?
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_00: Is the teacher blaming the parent?
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_00: Because the parent was supposed should have said, hey, make sure that you practice your choreography.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_00: But should the parent even have to say that in the off hours of training?
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_00: Because it could come across as being a pressuring parent that is loving this more than the kid.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_00: And how, and like that's just like parenting in general, I feel like is you know, how to prepare your kid.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_00: And and the parent doesn't want to be embarrassed that their kid doesn't know the dance when they come back because that's a poor reflection of them.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like if I feel like it's a very fine line to figure out as a parent how do I support my kid and make sure that they're going to class prepared and make sure they are retaining the corrections and make sure they are progressing without being, you know, obsessive over it or pushing the kid too much, where it could be a fine, a fine line of tiptoeing around that sticky situation.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_00: Because, you know, as a parent, I don't want, I wouldn't want my kid to fall out of love.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_00: I just want to make sure they're going to class prepared, you know, just like you have to do your homework for school.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, did you do your homework tonight?
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like, same type of thing.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_00: And but if it's like, oh, well, sorry, we got to go run and go do this private lesson and we gotta go do this and we gotta go do that for other things in dance, then there's not enough time to come prepared for the next one.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_00: They didn't have time to think about their choreography because mom was cramming too many things into the kids' schedule for other dance-related activities.
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_00: So it's I can't imagine what it's like to be a parent.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_00: So shout out to all the parents out there.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_00: We love you.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_00: We do love you.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_00: Y'all are rock stars.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's just like finding that that balance to make sure that you're not overbearing and too intense with your kid.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_00: I I remember at my studio growing up, I mean, mom, I love you, but you're you're I love you, but you're crazy sometimes.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_00: And they're all the and she's always listening.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_00: But like, she wasn't really like a crazy dance mom.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_00: She kind of let me do my thing and I really respect that.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's why I turned out the way that I did where I wanted to pursue this and I was able to.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_00: But like looking back on some of the other dance moms that existed at my studio, like there, they were a lot.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_00: There were some of them that were like, you know, pro like drilling their kids' routines with them backstage at competition when they're not even a dance teacher.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I and the kid just is like so frustrated and doesn't want anything to do with it.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like stuff like that, where I'm like, know your place, know your role, let the teachers do their job, trust your dancer that they're gonna do it well.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_00: Don't like take take the reins like that and think that you're making progress with your dancer, you're actually making it worse.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_00: And like some of those dancers that I look back that had moms that were a lot never pursued it, didn't want to, don't don't love dance anymore.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you you know, maybe they have bad thoughts about, like you said.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's it's a fine line.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_00: I think that as parents, it's it's hard to navigate, and especially with all the pressure of winning in scholarships and photos and trophies and all those things, which existed when we were young, but not on the promotional level now that it exists now.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_01: Being a parent is like the entire your entire life is fine lines.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like are you are is your child getting in enough social interaction, but not too much social interaction that they're exposed to things that they shouldn't be exposed to?
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_01: Are they, you know, are they participating in the right activities?
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_01: Are they learning their letters?
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like I have a toddler right now who is, you know, figuring out the ABCs and the one, two, threes, and you get the progress report back and you go, oh my gosh, like he doesn't know this letter, this letter, and this letter.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_01: Is that my fault?
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_01: Do I need to like pressure him to learn these things?
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_01: And it's it messes with your mind in such a deep, crazy way.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I highly recommend therapy for all the parents out there.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yes, therapy.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_02: For everyone, even if you're not a parent.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_02: You had a parent, so you should be in therapy.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, exactly.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_01: But it's a it's all fine lines.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's so hard.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_02: Well, can I imagine on that note?
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_02: Like remembering, and again, I'm not a parent, so this is just me coming from having been in 10 years of therapy.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_02: Hello, Stephanie.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_02: You just have to can, I think, continually check in with your child and be willing to hear an answer you don't want to hear.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_02: You know, if the question is, Sally, do you still love dance?
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_02: It's okay if the answer is no.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_02: It always has to be okay if the answer is no.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_02: Because sometimes the answer is going to be no.
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_02: And that shouldn't be this life-altering ending disaster.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you have to be able to go with the flow and and find a plan B, you know, and it doesn't even have to be a plan B necessarily.
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's the better plan A that we didn't look at first because we just did dance first, you know.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_01: But I also being connected to your child enough to know if that the answer that they are giving you is true.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like my four-year-old does kick and scream sometimes when he goes to dance class and does say sometimes, you know, I don't want to dance right now, but I also know that he's four years old and doesn't always say yes to things he should say yes to or say no to things he should say no to.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I do sometimes have to like push him in the door and make them go.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_01: And it's it's you have to know your child that deeply that you can know when to push and know when to not.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 55:11
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 55:11
  SPEAKER_01: What a chat, y'all.
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_00: I'm here for it.
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_00: I've learned a lot, I've also reminisced a bit, and I still can't believe that there are dancers that take 20 privates a week.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_04: Out of everything, that's what you'll remember.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, it's crazy to be.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_02: Also, can I have some of that money?
• 55:29
  SPEAKER_02: You know, maybe you could like take that five privates away and you could donate it to the Leslie, you know, wants a new kitchen floor fund because it's a lot of money.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_00: It is.
• 55:39
  SPEAKER_00: And like you said, Kimberly, like pay to play.
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_00: That I think that it's uh it's a lot, that's a that's a big topic of conversation in the dance world.
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_00: And to be completely honest, it exists everywhere in the world.
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I see it often as a professional dancer.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_00: I see like the dancers who are successful in a professional career are the ones who were able to pay to play their entire lives, and maybe they didn't have to pay for rent while they were pursuing auditioning because they had the funds and the support and the finances from whoever that could support them.
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_00: And then that meant that they could apply that other money to training more, or that meant that they were more available for more auditions, so they had more opportunities than others.
• 56:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like that type of that exists very much in our dance world in and in and in the life world, regular life.
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_00: So it is really interesting to hear that perspective because I think that a lot of it is coming down to going back to the 20 privates.
• 56:37
  SPEAKER_00: You have to have money to be able to do 20 privates a week on top of your regular studio training or how or however you're doing it.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_00: You have to have a lot of money to go to all these dance conventions.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_00: If you're one of the convention hoppers that goes every single weekend, you it's not like we're budgeting this out.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's probably just like, sure, whatever, let's go to another dance convention.
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_00: Sure, let's add another private to the equation.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_00: That's crazy to me, you know.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I get it.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_00: Some people are financially, they have more finances than others, and that's great.
• 57:05
  SPEAKER_00: But we also have to make sure that you understand how much money you're investing into a hobby for your child, and your child needs to really understand how much you your parents are investing.
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_00: I say that all the time too, because there are kids at convention that I can tell don't want to be there.
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, y'all need to make sure that you are giving your 110% because your parents paid a lot of money for you to be in this room right now.
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_00: You need to respect your family and your parents and the sacrifices that they're making for you to do what you quote unquote love.
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you if you're not being respectful to that, the parent, the kids, not the kids need to know it's about money, you know, they don't need to know about the parents' finances, but they need to understand that what they're doing, it there are sacrifices that are being made by your the entire family and potentially your siblings, mom and dad, extra workload, like whatever it is.
• 57:53
  SPEAKER_00: Because I can tell it is based on as a convention teacher body language, I can tell that they don't want to be there.
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_00: And like we've already talked about, it's hard for the teacher, but then it just breaks my heart for the parents because I'm like, wow, you guys spent a lot of money for your kids to not want to be here right now.
• 58:06
  SPEAKER_00: And that is that is a tough, tough thing to think about.
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, we covered a lot today on this chat, and I'm so grateful to have both our fabulous IDA judges, Kevin and Kimberly, here, joining us.
• 58:18
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for such an important discussion, a hot topic, and y'all really brought some great perspective to this.
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, thank you so much.
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, and how we always have our guests lead us out on making the impact is with one final thoughts on the topic.
• 58:33
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 58:33
  SPEAKER_00: Think about it for a minute if you need to.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_00: And it can be to whoever you want to talk to.
• 58:39
  SPEAKER_00: You can give advice to other studio owners, you can give advice to the parents, you can speak to whoever you'd like when it comes to when a dance parent wants it more than the dancer.
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_04: Well, I'll just say that it just goes back to comparison is the thief of joy.
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_04: So you just have to ask yourself like, are you doing this for your kid or are you doing this for yourself?
• 59:00
  SPEAKER_04: And one good way to look at that is are you constantly comparing what you're doing in your household to what someone else is doing in their household?
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_04: If so, you may not always be doing it for the right reasons, you know, because what works for you and what works for your family and for your kid is going to be different than what works for Susie and her kid.
• 59:19
  SPEAKER_04: And if you're constantly worried about what Susie is doing, how are you gonna really support your own child?
• 59:23
  SPEAKER_04: So it's really just important to really make sure that like you can be curious so you can support others, but don't compare what someone else is doing to what you're doing or what your kid is doing.
• 59:34
  SPEAKER_01: I agree.
• 59:35
  SPEAKER_01: My final note goes out to studio owners.
• 59:39
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's really, really important that you understand that your studio culture comes from you and you set the expectations, you set the bar, you allow things to happen within your studio.
• 59:55
  SPEAKER_01: And yes, I understand like bottom line, bottom dollar is like the most important in running a business.
• 1:00:01
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe that's why I don't run a studio anymore.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_01: But it's you have to be okay with setting those expectations and holding people to those expectations and being willing to sit down with people and have those hard conversations and say, hey, this might not be the best option for you, or you're not aligning with our philosophy by holding your child to these crazy standards.
• 1:00:25
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe you should go elsewhere.
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a hard thing to do, but you got to do it in order to maintain your peace and your sanity and to create the best learning environment for all of the kids and all of the families that are part of your studio family.
• 1:00:44
  SPEAKER_00: We hope you enjoyed this week's episode, all about when a parent wants it more than the dancer.
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_00: Be sure to follow our special guest, IDA Digits, on social media.
• 1:00:53
  SPEAKER_00: You can find Kimberly at Kimba2484 and Kevin at Kate Grant623.
• 1:01:00
  SPEAKER_00: Also, don't forget to follow Kevin's Grant Training Program, an exclusive program for dancers from different studios to come together for high quality ballet training.
• 1:01:08
  SPEAKER_00: Follow them on Instagram at Grant Training Program and learn more on their website at Grant Training Program.com.
• 1:01:15
  SPEAKER_02: Don't forget to follow Making the Impact on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Podcasts, and pretty much everywhere you listen to podcasts.
• 1:01:22
  SPEAKER_02: And if you want more exclusive episodes, support our podcast by joining our Platinum Premium membership for only$5 a month.
• 1:01:29
  SPEAKER_02: Subscribers receive free Making the Impact stickers, shout-outs live on the air, ad-free listening, and exclusive access to our QA episodes for members only.
• 1:01:37
  SPEAKER_02: Join now at Impact Dance Adjudicators.com slash Platinum Premium or click the link in our show notes.
• 1:01:44
  SPEAKER_00: Be sure to check out IDA affiliated competition Gems Dance Competition.
• 1:01:49
  SPEAKER_00: Gems Dance Competition is a fresh dance event created by studios for studios with the intent of changing the norm.
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_00: Their competitions are designed to be a positive experience for you, your staff, your students, and your entire dance family.
• 1:02:04
  SPEAKER_00: At GEMS, you're always guaranteed an encouraging educational, professional, and fun environment at each location.
• 1:02:11
  SPEAKER_00: With full panels of IDA judges at every event and locations throughout the Midwest, we highly recommend adding GEMS Dance Competition to your 2024 competition schedule.
• 1:02:21
  SPEAKER_00: To learn more about GEMS and register for an upcoming event, head to their website at dancems.com and come show your sparkle at Gems Dance Competition.
• 1:02:32
  SPEAKER_02: We've got some awesome episodes coming up in the next few weeks, including 10 things your backstage manager wants you to know, homeschooling and dance, and perfecting the pirouette.
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_00: Stay tuned for more episodes launching next week and every Thursday throughout the dance season.
• 1:02:48
  SPEAKER_00: Until then, keep dancing.