Latest / Honey Badger Radio / The Triumphant Return of Jonathan Taylor of Title IX for All and His New Project | Fireside Chat 253

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The Triumphant Return of Jonathan Taylor of Title IX for All and His New Project | Fireside Chat 253 · Honey Badger Radio

• 0:57
  Speaker 1: Three e ski.
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: Oh, let's begin.
• 1:16
  Speaker 3: Indeed, Hello everybody, and welcome to Honey Badger Radio. My
• 1:31
  Speaker 3: name is Brian and this is the Fireside Chat and
• 1:34
  Speaker 3: I am here with returning guests Jonathan Taylor.
• 1:38
  Speaker 4: Uh.
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: It's been like since twenty nineteen. Actually, well the last
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: time I saw you you were at the ICMI. Yeah,
• 1:44
  Speaker 3: twenty nineteen, So welcome back, Welcome back to the show.
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Man, it feels like a blast in the past.
• 1:50
  Speaker 5: It's just nice to reconnect with you, with you guys
• 1:53
  Speaker 5: and see how everyone's been doing and what you guys
• 1:56
  Speaker 5: are up to, and just a lot has changed in
• 1:59
  Speaker 5: the world.
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: Absolutely. Yeah.
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: You know it's funny, is that, Like I actually was
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: legitimately looking at calling up a bunch of the people
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: that we used to have on and bring them back
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: on to like, you know, do follow ups like we
• 2:14
  Speaker 3: just did meet up recently, which we haven't done in
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: years since try nineteen actually, and you know, I, you know,
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: I've been emailing out to guys from NCFM and stuff
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: like that, so then and I was like, oh, I
• 2:26
  Speaker 3: should reach out to Jonathan Taylor.
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: And then it was like that.
• 2:29
  Speaker 3: Week you put out a video on your channel which
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: is like a you know, like a new project you're doing,
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: and I thought, oh, I've loved to get them on
• 2:39
  Speaker 3: to talk about that.
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: So it's just weird, man.
• 2:42
  Speaker 5: Yeah, it's amazing how you know, it's it's a big
• 2:46
  Speaker 5: world and yet it's kind of a small world at
• 2:48
  Speaker 5: the same time.
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: You know, in that just stuff tends to click, you know,
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: at once.
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: Serendipity, Yeah, for sure, or is that the word for it,
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: or is a synchronous city?
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: I don't know, but.
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: It feels like the right word.
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: It feels like the right word exactly.
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: So before you used to run a channel and a
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: website that was I remember when it was called Justice
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: for Men and Boys in Education.
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: I think was that what it was called?
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: Oh you are close.
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: I'm really close. What was Yeah?
• 3:22
  Speaker 5: I apologize to the viewers for me changing the name
• 3:26
  Speaker 5: of the organization several times. So, way back in days
• 3:30
  Speaker 5: of Yr twenty thirteen, I ran a YouTube channel that
• 3:34
  Speaker 5: eventually became a website. Back in twenty thirteen, it was
• 3:36
  Speaker 5: called A Voice for Male Students.
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's right, A Voice for Mail Students.
• 3:40
  Speaker 5: And then like in twenty fifteen, I temporarily changed it
• 3:43
  Speaker 5: to Boys and Men in Education and then I'm like,
• 3:46
  Speaker 5: this is not working. We're going to change to a
• 3:48
  Speaker 5: different format. And so now it's called titleline for All,
• 3:52
  Speaker 5: and a lot of stuff went into that change. I
• 3:55
  Speaker 5: apologize to everyone who's been following my work or trying
• 3:59
  Speaker 5: to for the confusion, but yeah, now it's called Title
• 4:02
  Speaker 5: nine for all, and it's it's a very different format
• 4:04
  Speaker 5: which we can get into if.
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, for sure, I got I got a couple
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: things mixed up, but yes, that's right.
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: It was toil Night for all.
• 4:13
  Speaker 3: I know that because I remember when you were at
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: the ICMI twenty nineteen. Yeah, you know, you spoke there
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: and that was like what the organization was called at
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: that time, and you put out a new video, a
• 4:26
  Speaker 3: very short one, and you were going to be going
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: in another direction, and I believe that the channel is
• 4:32
  Speaker 3: called the common Man, right yeah, yeah, yeah, And that
• 4:36
  Speaker 3: was just the last week and a half or something. Yeah, yeah,
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: the last week and a half. Hopefully this is what
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: it is for a while.
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: You're trying to change it again on us.
• 4:43
  Speaker 5: Right, Yeah, no anticipation of doing that, but yeah, there
• 4:47
  Speaker 5: is this one I hope has a little bit more
• 4:50
  Speaker 5: of a deliberate strategy. I've been wanting to get back
• 4:52
  Speaker 5: into YouTube for a long time, for years actually, because
• 4:57
  Speaker 5: there's just so much value in reaching out to people
• 5:00
  Speaker 5: on YouTube, because that's for a lot of people who
• 5:04
  Speaker 5: are under thirty, like that's the new Google. You know,
• 5:07
  Speaker 5: They're not necessarily looking for a quick answer or even
• 5:11
  Speaker 5: an AI answer. They're looking for a conversation, and they're
• 5:15
  Speaker 5: looking for someone they can no like and trust, you know,
• 5:18
  Speaker 5: especially since I think, you know, we live in the
• 5:21
  Speaker 5: golden age of scams, especially with AI now that I
• 5:25
  Speaker 5: think authenticity is increasingly becoming one of the most valued
• 5:28
  Speaker 5: currencies in social matters, and I think that YouTube really
• 5:33
  Speaker 5: helps deliver on that authenticity. So yeah, that's one of
• 5:38
  Speaker 5: the reasons why I mean planning on increasing going back
• 5:41
  Speaker 5: back into YouTube.
• 5:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, for sure. You know, it's funny you mentioned authenticity.
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: I was. I remember having a lunch with Paul Elam
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: and he said exactly that. He said that you know
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: what people want right now more than anything is authenticity
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: because of how sort of you know, digital everything is
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: and disconnected everybody is, and I feel like for.
• 6:04
  Speaker 5: A good reason that they cannot trust their institutions and
• 6:08
  Speaker 5: many other things similar to that.
• 6:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure, So what's changed? What like,
• 6:16
  Speaker 3: what what have you been doing in the last five yuys?
• 6:19
  Speaker 5: Kind of what hasn't changed? I like it all right,
• 6:24
  Speaker 5: I'm sorry. How far back do you want me to go?
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: Twenty?
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: I guess like the last time I saw you was
• 6:30
  Speaker 3: in twenty nineteen. Yeah, so that was when we did
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: the ic mind that was like August. So I don't know,
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: like I know that you know, we got we got hit. Well,
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: there are some experiences that we have to share.
• 6:41
  Speaker 5: Right right, Yeah, I got smacked with COVID or COVID
• 6:45
  Speaker 5: the consequences of COVID at some point.
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, how does that affect you?
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: Uh so I was I miraculously did not get COVID.
• 6:58
  Speaker 5: To my knowledge, there are some people who tested it
• 7:00
  Speaker 5: and found that they had the antibodies for it, but
• 7:03
  Speaker 5: they never felt the symptoms. I did get a vaccine
• 7:06
  Speaker 5: and a follow up vaccine, and I did not get it.
• 7:11
  Speaker 5: Some people who are close to me did get it.
• 7:14
  Speaker 5: So I feel lucky or blessed. But then again, I'm
• 7:17
  Speaker 5: not in the highest risk or even a high risk demographic.
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: The high you know, it's really the.
• 7:21
  Speaker 5: Sixty five age plus people who are really in the
• 7:25
  Speaker 5: high risk for it should should they contract it? So
• 7:29
  Speaker 5: and I've always been at least moderately active, which helps
• 7:34
  Speaker 5: keep me me somewhat moat healthy and I guess resistant
• 7:38
  Speaker 5: to some of it. But yeah, I've been rather blessed
• 7:42
  Speaker 5: in that regard for me. That the consequences have been
• 7:46
  Speaker 5: more to society that you know, a lot of things
• 7:48
  Speaker 5: have been shut down. The economy was you know, essentially
• 7:52
  Speaker 5: put on life support and then kind of you know,
• 7:55
  Speaker 5: they tried to resuscitate it and things like that. That's
• 8:00
  Speaker 5: those have been more of the issues that I've been
• 8:01
  Speaker 5: dealing with. But other than that, COVID I wasn't a
• 8:05
  Speaker 5: major thing for me personally. But yeah, what about about.
• 8:10
  Speaker 3: What about the well, I mean me personally, I think
• 8:15
  Speaker 3: I think that my wife had it. My wife and
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: I had it and then it was gone, Like we
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: didn't uh you know, we didn't get the JAB or anything.
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: We just let her up because like you, like you said,
• 8:26
  Speaker 3: like I'm not in the higher risk group.
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: My wife wasn't in a high risk group. So it
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: was just like a flu and then and it was gone.
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: But what about the let's set aside the actual like
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: you know, virus or whatever. But what about like the
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: the other sort of you know, reactions to it, let's say,
• 8:45
  Speaker 3: the government reactions to it, things like that, like did
• 8:48
  Speaker 3: that make your life different or challenging in any way?
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: So it did in a sense.
• 8:54
  Speaker 5: My work involves assisting students who are accused of misconduct
• 8:58
  Speaker 5: on campus that tends to be men and boys, and
• 9:02
  Speaker 5: you know, between twenty eleven and twenty twenty, there was
• 9:05
  Speaker 5: this huge ramp of campus kangaroo courts, you know, like
• 9:09
  Speaker 5: these sham proceedings in which students would be accused and
• 9:12
  Speaker 5: then expelled, often without due process, without fair notice, without
• 9:17
  Speaker 5: you know, people having without having their witnesses interviewed, you know,
• 9:22
  Speaker 5: sometimes without even knowing the charges against them, or seeing
• 9:25
  Speaker 5: the evidence presented against them, or being able to respond
• 9:28
  Speaker 5: to it, that kind of stuff. A lot of that
• 9:31
  Speaker 5: happened between twenty eleven and twenty twenty. One of the
• 9:34
  Speaker 5: consequences of COVID was that a lot of classes moved
• 9:38
  Speaker 5: off campus. There were fewer students mingling together, and because
• 9:42
  Speaker 5: of that, there were I think COVID impacted this. There
• 9:46
  Speaker 5: hasn't been a kind of study for this, but I
• 9:49
  Speaker 5: do think COVID impacted the amount of opportunities students had
• 9:54
  Speaker 5: to mingle with each other and by extension, any kind
• 9:57
  Speaker 5: of misconduct or allegations of misconduct that could arise from
• 10:00
  Speaker 5: those interactions. So yeah, I say, that's how that is. Now,
• 10:07
  Speaker 5: that is one of the reasons why there has been
• 10:09
  Speaker 5: kind of a decline in these cases, which it's now
• 10:12
  Speaker 5: coming back up just recently with the Biden administration.
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: But I want to come back to, like, yeah, the
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: timing of these things, because I do think that's interesting.
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: But go ahead, you said that they're.
• 10:24
  Speaker 5: Yeah, so that's that's really how it impacted me more
• 10:27
  Speaker 5: than anything. Because one of the things is that I
• 10:31
  Speaker 5: run a database service, and these are databases for students
• 10:36
  Speaker 5: who are accused of misconduct or attorneys that are helping them,
• 10:40
  Speaker 5: or or the advocacy groups that are assisting them.
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: And these databases have things like.
• 10:45
  Speaker 5: Lawsuits and government investigation files and long long lists of
• 10:51
  Speaker 5: thousands of attorneys that have worked on these cases and
• 10:53
  Speaker 5: all of these statistics, and and we run it as
• 10:55
  Speaker 5: a service, and that how we stay afloat that.
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: That's how we uh.
• 11:02
  Speaker 5: It's a subscription service, but we try to keep it
• 11:05
  Speaker 5: affordable because we are very sympathetic to the issues and
• 11:09
  Speaker 5: so that has been something that has really helped our
• 11:13
  Speaker 5: organization stay afloat. Now with the decline of misconduct cases
• 11:17
  Speaker 5: has come a decline of miss you know, investigations and
• 11:21
  Speaker 5: lawsuits that result from that, and so so we have
• 11:24
  Speaker 5: taken a hit. We did take a hit because of that.
• 11:28
  Speaker 5: But I think we have we we have been so conservative,
• 11:33
  Speaker 5: if you will, in preparing for the future, or rather
• 11:35
  Speaker 5: not conservative conservative in using our finance at school's really conservative.
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 11:41
  Speaker 5: Yeah, and uh that that that did not put us asunder,
• 11:46
  Speaker 5: although it certainly did for many other many other organizations
• 11:50
  Speaker 5: and businesses.
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, So I want to go back to something you
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: said that around there was like this this ramping up
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: of cases, right, and allegations or whatever, allegations of his conduct,
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: and then it led it sort of declined because of
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: COVID and everything.
• 12:13
  Speaker 5: It's the opportunities work was one of the factors, really,
• 12:16
  Speaker 5: the biggest of them. Really, the biggest factor was the
• 12:19
  Speaker 5: Trump administration came in, rewrote the rules and said that
• 12:23
  Speaker 5: they got say, they said the jig is up. Campus
• 12:26
  Speaker 5: administrators were no longer going to be enabling these show trials.
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: That was the biggest thing. But I do believe COVID
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: was a significant factor as well.
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so that's okay, that's good to point it out,
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: because I remember in twenty sixteen, Betsy de Vos was
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: that her name was put in charge of the education,
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: that she removed the dear colleague letter. Is that like
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: a big part of what changed this?
• 12:48
  Speaker 5: You think, yeah, that's the effect part of it, But
• 12:50
  Speaker 5: really I think the biggest part of it was just
• 12:54
  Speaker 5: her coming in removing the or revoking rescinding the that
• 12:59
  Speaker 5: near colleague left, uh, and and promising a new rule
• 13:03
  Speaker 5: making session whereby the administration would flesh out the rights
• 13:07
  Speaker 5: of the accusers and the accused or the complainants and respondents.
• 13:11
  Speaker 5: And that was essentially signal to campus administrators that the
• 13:13
  Speaker 5: jig is up now. Also, campus administrators knew that that's
• 13:21
  Speaker 5: the the Trump administration would not be as bloodthirsty is
• 13:27
  Speaker 5: probably a good term in just cracking down on these cases,
• 13:31
  Speaker 5: you know, regardless of the guilt or innocence of the.
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: Accused and things like that.
• 13:35
  Speaker 5: Uh, the the Biden administration and the Obama administration, or
• 13:38
  Speaker 5: excuse me, the Obama administration did a lot to foster
• 13:42
  Speaker 5: fear and panic among schools. Uh. They put their names
• 13:46
  Speaker 5: on government websites saying that they were being being investigated.
• 13:51
  Speaker 5: Of course, that in turn got advocate you know, feminist
• 13:54
  Speaker 5: groups and other survivor groups to put them on blast.
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: And you know, the schools really value the repute haiti UH.
• 14:01
  Speaker 5: The the government, by the Obama administration UH threatened schools
• 14:06
  Speaker 5: with the nuclear option of pulling all of their federal
• 14:09
  Speaker 5: funding if they failed to comply with guidance documents, which
• 14:13
  Speaker 5: which was technically an illegitimate act by the administration. These
• 14:17
  Speaker 5: these sub regulatory guidance documents did not have the force
• 14:21
  Speaker 5: of law, but they wielded them as though they did,
• 14:24
  Speaker 5: and they threatened universities with failures with with with consequences
• 14:28
  Speaker 5: for failures to to comply with them.
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: And that's in you know, can I just your computer
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: is doing something? Is it? Okay? Yes? Your computer make
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: a sound?
• 14:40
  Speaker 5: Yeah, that's an email coming in. Oh yekay, okay, I'll
• 14:42
  Speaker 5: close my I'll close my outlook. Yah, sorry, it's okay,
• 14:44
  Speaker 5: it's okay, no problem. I just didn't want your computer
• 14:47
  Speaker 5: to be like shutting down.
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: It's not.
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: It's not booting up a video game or something like that.
• 14:53
  Speaker 3: So no, what I was going to say is as
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: interesting you bring this up, because I did. It seems
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: this might be similar, and I want just one to
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: get your you know, instincts on this because you've been
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: working in this with this for so long. So I've
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: done a series of interviews with former military personnel who
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: are going through their own version of this kind of
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: you know, kangaroo courts and stuff where and they give
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: me horror stories of guys that have been you know,
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: accused of things and they they're dishonorably discharged.
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: But where where it comes from?
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: And it's sort of like also was happening during the
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: Obama administration, which is why I thought it was interesting because.
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: They brought this up.
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: It's it's that there was in the military, there were
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: people of you know, significant rank that were being informed
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: by by experts or academics in the subject of this
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: kind of you know, these rape culture theories I don't
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: know how to supply.
• 15:48
  Speaker 5: And probably trauma informed and methods of investigating.
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: Right, And they were basically yeah, but the but what
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: was the real thing that stood out was they said, well,
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: here is a statistic that you know, one in for
• 16:02
  Speaker 3: one in three women whatever and if or that this
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: number of allegations. It's this very small number of allegations
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: that are actually considered false like these they throw these
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: statistics and they say, your you know, conviction rate is
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: not matching the data, so yeah, you should be you
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: should be having more convictions.
• 16:22
  Speaker 5: And these quotas of like you know, get me my scalps,
• 16:25
  Speaker 5: you know, kind of kind of mentality.
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: And it's yes, it's happening in the military too, Yeah
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: for sure.
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 16:32
  Speaker 5: I talked with the guy named Arvis Owens. He he
• 16:35
  Speaker 5: used to be Owens.
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: I had him on my show. Yeah, yeah, when you
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: talk to him, Yeah.
• 16:41
  Speaker 5: He's I got a text message from him, just just
• 16:44
  Speaker 5: I think today about uh, since we have the election
• 16:47
  Speaker 5: yesterday here in the United States, you know, and yeah,
• 16:50
  Speaker 5: and oh, by the way, I thank you for the
• 16:53
  Speaker 5: privilege of giving me this this prime real estate time
• 16:56
  Speaker 5: the day after the election.
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, of all all the all the scrubs on the
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: internet you could.
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: Have will you welcome you you are you are among
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: us scrubs of the event.
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: We're all we're all part of that.
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: But no, but I mean it was good timing because
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: I know that of if anything, what's happening with the
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: and I don't want to talk about the election too much,
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: but we can talk about in the after show. But
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: but what is like what happened before with Betsy Devaz
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: and the you know, the removal or the revoking of
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: the Dear Colleague letter and all of the other changes
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: and then the the sort of like you know, leading
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: up to this election, there was a lot of discussion
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: about like what has to change in education, what has
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: to change in the military, And I saw I think
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: that there is a lot of excitement around this, so
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: it does make make sense.
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: But it's it's very cool that.
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: You spoke to Arvis as well, and shout out to
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: Arvis Owens if you're watching, they.
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: Probably let him know. He's a he's a he's a
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: go geter man. Like he lives.
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: He lives near me too, he's agin.
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I haven't met with him yet, but I'm
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: hoping to at some point.
• 18:03
  Speaker 5: So yeah, like I can tell he's former military just
• 18:07
  Speaker 5: by talking to him, Like he's got that confidence and
• 18:09
  Speaker 5: determination and all that stuff and just very very direct,
• 18:13
  Speaker 5: you know, kind.
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: Of very Yeah, he's very he's a pro for sure.
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: But okay, anyway, we're digressing a bit. So the other
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: thing I wanted to ask, is I think this is
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: also the case with the military and also things that
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: I've seen in the business world. So I've spoken to
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: people that work in various fields who have also been
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: pushed out, and it all kind of started happening around
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: the same time. So you mentioned that, you know, allegations
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: were really ramping up, and I want to get and
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: this was around what time was this happening.
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: Between allegations against students.
• 18:49
  Speaker 5: Yes, yeah, that was they really ramped up around between
• 18:53
  Speaker 5: twenty eleven and twenty to the end of the Obama administration.
• 18:58
  Speaker 5: Was really the the wild West sixteen. Yeah, twenty sixteen,
• 19:04
  Speaker 5: that was when the era of kangaroo courts began on
• 19:07
  Speaker 5: campus and schools had almost no pushback really until now
• 19:16
  Speaker 5: in twenty thirteen. Twenty thirteen is when I think the
• 19:18
  Speaker 5: litigation movement really began for a Q students because at
• 19:22
  Speaker 5: that time, for the first time in US history, lawsuits
• 19:25
  Speaker 5: by ACCUS students broke into the double digits.
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: Students were alleging that the rights were violated in these proceedings.
• 19:31
  Speaker 5: In twenty fourteen, the number of lawsuits by those students
• 19:34
  Speaker 5: against their schools doubled, and then the year After that,
• 19:37
  Speaker 5: the number of lawsuits doubled again from that one year
• 19:40
  Speaker 5: prior and then in twenty seventeen twenty eighteen. By twenty
• 19:44
  Speaker 5: eighteen we had one hundred and twenty six lawsuits against
• 19:47
  Speaker 5: higher education institutions just by students, not including teachers, and.
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: A lot of them were successful.
• 19:59
  Speaker 5: One of the leading compliance organizations higher ed compliance organizations
• 20:05
  Speaker 5: called ATIXA, the Association of TITLELNE Administrators. They issued this
• 20:09
  Speaker 5: white paper to their clients, who are Title nine administrators,
• 20:13
  Speaker 5: and they were saying, look, guys, the field is being
• 20:15
  Speaker 5: just hammered with litigation, and for the first time ever
• 20:19
  Speaker 5: in history, higher ed is losing more cases than they're winning.
• 20:22
  Speaker 5: And you know you are going too far. You're gonna spark,
• 20:27
  Speaker 5: you know, account this counter swing, if you will, and
• 20:31
  Speaker 5: it's going to end up hurting the cause of you know,
• 20:34
  Speaker 5: policing the sex crimes which rightfully belong in court.
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: I think yeah, I would think so, yeah, and so.
• 20:44
  Speaker 5: But by that point it was too late, because the
• 20:48
  Speaker 5: lawsuits had already ramped up. Betsy Devas had already been
• 20:51
  Speaker 5: brought in, and they were they were already deliberating on
• 20:56
  Speaker 5: rule making procedures and things like that.
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: That was in twenty seventeen.
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: That, yeah, a lot of it started return in time.
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I know that a lot of that stuff was
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: happening and in all different uh you know, areas of
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: public and private life, like in the private sector as
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: well as the public sector.
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: So very very weird. So okay, so let's get to
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: the new thing that you're doing now.
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: I assume that you still do the work titled nine
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: for All, but you also you're just adding this is
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: like an extension of that or or something separate, right.
• 21:31
  Speaker 5: Well, sort of it's like joined at the hip, is
• 21:33
  Speaker 5: how I would phrase it. So it's it's funded by
• 21:36
  Speaker 5: title line for All. So that's that's where it is.
• 21:41
  Speaker 5: And the idea is that we need to reach young
• 21:45
  Speaker 5: men where they are at, and where they are at
• 21:48
  Speaker 5: is on YouTube.
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: Young men don't.
• 21:51
  Speaker 5: Really go to the blogosphere, you know, like you know,
• 21:55
  Speaker 5: the whole thing. Like ten years ago or fourteen years ago,
• 21:59
  Speaker 5: we're in a very different place, right, Like you had,
• 22:03
  Speaker 5: like a Voice for Men was this huge dominant flagship blog,
• 22:07
  Speaker 5: right and it had a ton of activity. And this
• 22:10
  Speaker 5: is not to knock a Voice for Men, by the
• 22:11
  Speaker 5: way that that trends have changed. It's just that the
• 22:14
  Speaker 5: world has moved away from the blogosphere and a lot
• 22:17
  Speaker 5: of blogs. Around twenty fourteen twenty fifteen, they just saw
• 22:20
  Speaker 5: massive decline as the adoption of social media just just
• 22:25
  Speaker 5: radically increased. You know, by twenty twelve, most people had smartphones,
• 22:31
  Speaker 5: they were you know, you had Twitter, you know, YouTube,
• 22:34
  Speaker 5: all that kind of stuff, and yeah, more and more
• 22:38
  Speaker 5: people were getting on social media. The blog, the great
• 22:41
  Speaker 5: blogging age of the early Internet was increasingly in decline.
• 22:46
  Speaker 5: And of course youth today have a few shorter attention
• 22:49
  Speaker 5: spans than.
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and the generation, yes, for sure.
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: So they naturally kind of lean into social media. And
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: so where was I going with this?
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: Well, we were talking about like it's okay, you're you're
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: talking about Okay, let let's back up. So what we're
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: talking about is your new channel slash series called The
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: Common Man, and that you're and that you're going to
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: try and meet men where they're at.
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: And yes, it's true. This is like you can look.
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: At the rise of a lot of like people on
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: the Internet that men men particularly watch or consume like
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: they're you know, Joe Rogan is very popular with men.
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: Tucker Carls is very popular with men, history podcasts got
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: manisphere guys, you know, like the whatever podcast, et cetera.
• 23:37
  Speaker 5: And even so in the term manisphere has changed I
• 23:40
  Speaker 5: think significant for sure, significantly, Like the old Manisphere was
• 23:45
  Speaker 5: more like just two groups or three uh migtaw men's
• 23:49
  Speaker 5: rights and then you had some a few is on
• 23:53
  Speaker 5: the side over there. But now there's now it seems
• 23:56
  Speaker 5: like the dating.
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: Cult.
• 23:59
  Speaker 5: The dating conversation is now front and center, whereas before
• 24:03
  Speaker 5: it had been kind of on the sidelines. And it's
• 24:06
  Speaker 5: no longer so much a conversation about rights and and
• 24:09
  Speaker 5: things like that, which there's some good and bad there,
• 24:14
  Speaker 5: you know, but I'm sure we could get into that first.
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: I agree, I know what you mean.
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well that's the thing too though, because if the
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: audience has changed as well, so like some of the
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: guys that were on there that've gotten older probably have
• 24:28
  Speaker 3: sort of like you know, I think the manisphere served them.
• 24:33
  Speaker 3: There its purpose in the old manisphere, especially the men's
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: rights part of it, you know, because if you either
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: way I measure this is when I got involved with this.
• 24:44
  Speaker 3: My my primary goal was just to like get the
• 24:46
  Speaker 3: conversation out into the world so that people are talking
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: about the things we talk about in their in their
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: living rooms, in their schools, et cetera. And I think
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: that that's happening. You can see, like, for example, the
• 24:58
  Speaker 3: word missonry you to be one that nobody heard of
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: and now you see it everywhere.
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: Y So yeah, sorry, go ahead.
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: I know.
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: I was just saying that that, like that was always
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: my goal, and I think that we're doing that. But
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: a lot of the people who are on or sort
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: of like you know, in these manisterer spaces now, they're
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: younger guys, so they obviously have girls on the brain
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: and they're like, oh, I want to learn how to
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: pick girls up, date.
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: Them, attract them, et cetera.
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: But the part about like you know, child custody and
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: father's rights and all that, that's not quite They're not
• 25:31
  Speaker 3: at that point yet, but they should be, you know,
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: I think they should be made aware of it. So
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: I see how Maybe what I'm getting at is that
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: if the manisphere has changed, a lot of it has
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: to do with the fact that the audience has changed,
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: Like it's a different group of people and they're younger,
• 25:46
  Speaker 3: and they're you know, they have different things on their mind.
• 25:49
  Speaker 5: So yeah, I mean, I think there is value in
• 25:52
  Speaker 5: addressing social strategies for young men. I think one of
• 25:57
  Speaker 5: the I and just teaching them a certain level of
• 26:01
  Speaker 5: self respect and teaching them to walk away from abusive relationships.
• 26:08
  Speaker 5: I think one of one of men's great underutilized powers
• 26:11
  Speaker 5: is simply walking away. A lot of the traditional men's
• 26:16
  Speaker 5: role has has been sort of a compulsion to do
• 26:20
  Speaker 5: certain things in behalf of women and when in reality,
• 26:26
  Speaker 5: you know, I think if you were going to say
• 26:29
  Speaker 5: that some women do deserve that, it's probably the ones
• 26:33
  Speaker 5: you're most connected to, the ones you're most invested in,
• 26:35
  Speaker 5: your your family, your your you know, your wife, your
• 26:39
  Speaker 5: your wife and your daughter, things like that, you know,
• 26:42
  Speaker 5: things like you know, protecting them and you know that
• 26:44
  Speaker 5: kind of thing. But the idea that men are obligated
• 26:48
  Speaker 5: to just you know, like say, provide for or protect
• 26:51
  Speaker 5: all women everywhere just for you know, because they have vagina.
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: Just yeah, for example, the you know, do you know
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: about the Daniel Penny case, to know about Daniel Penny
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: on the oh yeah, yeah, he stepped in right on
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: the New York subway and now you know he's looking
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: at like manslaughter, and you know it was because he
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: was he thought he was like you said, serving, you know,
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: doing the right thing, which we normally in a healthy society,
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: we would see that for what it is.
• 27:21
  Speaker 5: But yeah, he was protecting the community really, And it's
• 27:25
  Speaker 5: like whenever, whenever the authorities don't do their job, you
• 27:29
  Speaker 5: need occasionally you need good men to stand up or
• 27:33
  Speaker 5: or good people to stand up, and usually it's going
• 27:36
  Speaker 5: to be a guy.
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: I got to say, when when there's when there's.
• 27:39
  Speaker 5: The prospect of violence involved, and that's that's one of
• 27:42
  Speaker 5: the you know, like violence is characterized as this negative
• 27:45
  Speaker 5: among men, but but in very specific situations, you know,
• 27:51
  Speaker 5: that can also be a good thing, you know, when
• 27:54
  Speaker 5: you're defending other people, that kind of thing.
• 27:57
  Speaker 3: That's so yeah anyway, yeah, so okay, so what do
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: you want to do with the common man?
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: What do you because I want to get like a
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: sense of what the goals of that channel is going
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: to be.
• 28:11
  Speaker 5: One of the things that I want to introduce a
• 28:13
  Speaker 5: little bit of a different conversation to the online men's
• 28:18
  Speaker 5: issues discussion, because I gotta say, some of the men's
• 28:23
  Speaker 5: issues discussion.
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: Online and I'm not talking about Honey Badger Radio.
• 28:26
  Speaker 5: I'm talking about like the I'm talking about some other
• 28:29
  Speaker 5: you know there are there are, for example, Men's Issues
• 28:31
  Speaker 5: channels out there that do nothing but just bash on
• 28:34
  Speaker 5: single moms all day. And I see those channels and
• 28:38
  Speaker 5: I'm like, you know what, I just don't think this
• 28:41
  Speaker 5: is productive. I got to be perfectly honest. Now, there
• 28:44
  Speaker 5: are some women who have, by their own poor choices,
• 28:47
  Speaker 5: gotten themselves into this situation, of course, and of course
• 28:51
  Speaker 5: I think there's there's some value in drawing attention to
• 28:53
  Speaker 5: those poor choices and how other people might avoid those choices.
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: But there are some channels out there that.
• 28:57
  Speaker 5: For example, just bash on single moms all day, no
• 29:01
  Speaker 5: matter their their origin story, if you will, And that
• 29:05
  Speaker 5: that's just one example of many of how I feel
• 29:07
  Speaker 5: like in some cases the conversation is has been kind
• 29:10
  Speaker 5: of lopsided, and I want to get have more of
• 29:14
  Speaker 5: a balanced conversation where it's not explicitly right wing, it's
• 29:17
  Speaker 5: not explicitly left wing, and it's not just bashing on
• 29:22
  Speaker 5: women like some do, because some really do that, and
• 29:26
  Speaker 5: I feel like that could hurt the cause if there
• 29:30
  Speaker 5: are not people who are Now that doesn't mean don't
• 29:32
  Speaker 5: critique the darker aspects of of you know, female behavior,
• 29:37
  Speaker 5: but it doesn't mean just to balance it out with
• 29:39
  Speaker 5: you know, not you know that kind of thing. So
• 29:41
  Speaker 5: that's one thing, And I think that we need more
• 29:46
  Speaker 5: men's advocates on YouTube, I think who are discussing things
• 29:49
  Speaker 5: in a more philosophical way, trying to relate that to
• 29:53
  Speaker 5: people's lives, promote solutions, that kind of thing.
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: And that's that's really one of my goal.
• 30:00
  Speaker 5: Another one is that I want to inform people about
• 30:03
  Speaker 5: the things that I am most educated on and most
• 30:06
  Speaker 5: practiced in, which is the actual world of you know,
• 30:10
  Speaker 5: accused students and and the process of a Title nine
• 30:14
  Speaker 5: investigation and how they can help themselves. Yeah, that kind
• 30:19
  Speaker 5: of thing, you know, if they're wrongly accused, so because
• 30:23
  Speaker 5: you know, because their future is at stake. So so
• 30:27
  Speaker 5: those are some of the goals with with the channel.
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: And when you say it's like a conversation, is it
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: just is it just going to be you or are
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: you going to be like talking with people?
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: Or might bring or.
• 30:38
  Speaker 5: I could I could invite people that We'll have to
• 30:40
  Speaker 5: see how it goes. You know, there are all sorts
• 30:42
  Speaker 5: of ways I could take it. I could set up
• 30:45
  Speaker 5: a Patreon like thing at some point, I could bring
• 30:49
  Speaker 5: on people. I might bring my wife in because my
• 30:52
  Speaker 5: wife has been very helpful to me in some of
• 30:55
  Speaker 5: the some of the back end work with our database
• 31:00
  Speaker 5: is she's she's helped me with some of the some
• 31:03
  Speaker 5: of the marketing and branding and stuff like that. She
• 31:06
  Speaker 5: she really helps be kind of a counterbalance to me
• 31:09
  Speaker 5: or or an assistant gut check if you will, on
• 31:14
  Speaker 5: some of the stuff. And and back there, I don't
• 31:16
  Speaker 5: know if you can see her.
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: That's my cat.
• 31:18
  Speaker 5: That's our our chief morale office there back there. Uh,
• 31:22
  Speaker 5: I'm here in our our spare bedroom slash office.
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 31:27
  Speaker 5: So so our organization is is really is really me
• 31:31
  Speaker 5: and my wife. My wife is is really a silent
• 31:35
  Speaker 5: help to me. She she doesn't like to be so
• 31:37
  Speaker 5: much in the spotlight, and she's not as as practiced
• 31:43
  Speaker 5: on very technical matters regarding you know, the law or
• 31:48
  Speaker 5: things like that. But but in terms of social matters,
• 31:52
  Speaker 5: she has a very good sense, and she has a
• 31:54
  Speaker 5: lot of integrity and character and intelligence, and and she's
• 31:58
  Speaker 5: also very conversational.
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: So I'd like.
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: It have on.
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: As well at some point. So the idea is, you know,
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: it could go any which way.
• 32:08
  Speaker 5: I think I have to have some kind of basic plan,
• 32:10
  Speaker 5: but have room to adapt and just kind of sense
• 32:14
  Speaker 5: what gets the most traction and follow that as reasonably
• 32:18
  Speaker 5: far as I can.
• 32:20
  Speaker 4: Yeah, Yeah, I was going to say, so basically what
• 32:32
  Speaker 4: you're saying is.
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: There's a couple of ways you can approach creating.
• 32:37
  Speaker 3: Content with regards to how this conversation around what I
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: think is the most important conversation we should be having,
• 32:44
  Speaker 3: which is trying to bridge this sort of gap between
• 32:47
  Speaker 3: men and women.
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: And part of that because like when we talk about
• 32:52
  Speaker 3: men's issues that are legal issues or legislative issues or
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: political issues, it's hard to get people to want to
• 32:59
  Speaker 3: listen because we are already men operate as sort of
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: like a deficit in terms of like compassion for them. Yeah,
• 33:07
  Speaker 3: and that has to do with a lot of things,
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: the way we're socialized and the way that we you know,
• 33:12
  Speaker 3: sort of like give examples of men, you know, like
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: what like what they mean to us or don't mean
• 33:17
  Speaker 3: to us. And there's a lot of negative propaganda against
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: men out there. So we got to work on like
• 33:26
  Speaker 3: basically getting making its where men are more loved by women,
• 33:33
  Speaker 3: but also that they love themselves and and you know
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: that they're that the value in them is it becomes
• 33:41
  Speaker 3: sort of a given, whereas right now it's sort of
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: taken for granted. You know, there's a lot of people
• 33:45
  Speaker 3: will say, well, we don't need men for anything while
• 33:47
  Speaker 3: they're on the internet, you know, using electricity, drinking water
• 33:51
  Speaker 3: and all of that.
• 33:53
  Speaker 5: I really do think you touch on a very important
• 33:55
  Speaker 5: point because men and women are different, right, Like, they
• 33:58
  Speaker 5: contribute to the world in distinctive ways, and I feel
• 34:02
  Speaker 5: like we need to highlight that, you know, And and
• 34:07
  Speaker 5: a lot of there's a lot of you know, chest
• 34:10
  Speaker 5: something out there about oh, if if men were all vanished,
• 34:15
  Speaker 5: you know, and we would be we would live in
• 34:18
  Speaker 5: the paradise, you know, and and and you know, so
• 34:22
  Speaker 5: it's it's just kind of nonsensical, but it's I feel
• 34:27
  Speaker 5: like there's there's so much tribalism nowadays, like you.
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: Like you have to.
• 34:33
  Speaker 5: Go with you know, and and and the dominant narrative
• 34:37
  Speaker 5: on gender is that you have to be tribal in
• 34:39
  Speaker 5: favor of women otherwise, you know, like otherwise them or
• 34:45
  Speaker 5: something right, and even the mere attempted balance is seen
• 34:50
  Speaker 5: is misconstrued as as some kind of bias against women,
• 34:54
  Speaker 5: which so yeah.
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: For sure, for sure, So I I go, okay, so
• 35:01
  Speaker 3: I'm saying that this. So this is what I think
• 35:03
  Speaker 3: the most important thing is. And I think that there
• 35:05
  Speaker 3: has been some progress in the conversation. Like I said,
• 35:09
  Speaker 3: men are acknowledging their pain. They see that it's real,
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: it has a name, you know, and that's good.
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: But I also think there is something.
• 35:18
  Speaker 3: To be said for the importance of talking about things
• 35:22
  Speaker 3: that you are for rather than things that you are against.
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 35:25
  Speaker 3: Absolutely, you see, like defining your goals based on like
• 35:28
  Speaker 3: what you want so you know, or what what can
• 35:32
  Speaker 3: we do because we can, certainly, let's say, highlight bad
• 35:37
  Speaker 3: actors and use them as example, say okay, this is
• 35:40
  Speaker 3: what you should avoid. Here are the reasons, right, yeah,
• 35:43
  Speaker 3: and all of that, and I think that there's a
• 35:45
  Speaker 3: lot of use in that also, you know, poking the
• 35:47
  Speaker 3: holes in our current paradigm, which is the feminist paradigm,
• 35:51
  Speaker 3: to say, well, here's why the world we all operate under,
• 35:55
  Speaker 3: you know, this is what's wrong with it. And the
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: reason for this is not simply to you know, just
• 36:01
  Speaker 3: like take a dump on feminism, but it's also it's
• 36:03
  Speaker 3: it's mainly to tell people the way that you are
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: living and thinking and viewing things is not the way
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: it has to be here, here are other options, and
• 36:12
  Speaker 3: I think that is firstly, I think it's very freeing
• 36:14
  Speaker 3: for people.
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: And secondly, then they.
• 36:16
  Speaker 3: Will have the space to say, what do what can
• 36:19
  Speaker 3: I do that is positive for myself or for you know,
• 36:24
  Speaker 3: the people in my community or whatever. I think that
• 36:27
  Speaker 3: one of the things that I've been I've been advocating
• 36:29
  Speaker 3: for for a very long time is that men need
• 36:31
  Speaker 3: their own spaces so that they can like work together
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: on things, projects, you know whatever, learn to to be
• 36:40
  Speaker 3: in a cooperative space.
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 36:42
  Speaker 3: This is like I think that it's the way that
• 36:44
  Speaker 3: men heal that's different from the way women heal. Like
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: women like to you know, they go to therapy, they
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: talk about their problems, they work it out in that
• 36:51
  Speaker 3: way or with their girlfriends. But men they maybe they go,
• 36:55
  Speaker 3: you know, do something together, Like they literally work out,
• 36:58
  Speaker 3: they literally work out in the whatever, or they go.
• 37:01
  Speaker 5: To martial arts classes and just beat each other up
• 37:04
  Speaker 5: with you know, boxing gloves and stuff like that.
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
• 37:07
  Speaker 3: But but they have their space where they go and
• 37:10
  Speaker 3: I think, you know, because I think that then men
• 37:14
  Speaker 3: can put a focus on the good that they can
• 37:18
  Speaker 3: do or the or the things that they can like
• 37:21
  Speaker 3: celebrate or encourage in each other. And I think that
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: is a better long term, you know, solution for them,
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: so because otherwise they will fall into nihilism.
• 37:32
  Speaker 5: Yeah, and I think I think fundamental to that that
• 37:35
  Speaker 5: strategy would be just recognizing, yeah, that men and women
• 37:38
  Speaker 5: are different. They're going to respond to different stimuli, right,
• 37:42
  Speaker 5: and and what works for women doesn't necessarily work for men.
• 37:45
  Speaker 5: And we can't just view men as defective women when
• 37:48
  Speaker 5: they don't respond in the same way that women respond
• 37:51
  Speaker 5: to certain stimuli that kind of thing, you know.
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: So yep, Yeah, totally truly on board with what you're saying.
• 38:00
  Speaker 3: So well, how like, how often do you want to
• 38:05
  Speaker 3: make content? Like?
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: I don't know, what do you do? You still? Are
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: you still working out like the format and all these
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: other things?
• 38:11
  Speaker 5: So I want to I'd love to make at least
• 38:14
  Speaker 5: I'd love to make two videos a month.
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: We'll see where it goes.
• 38:19
  Speaker 5: I understand that if I don't post at least one
• 38:21
  Speaker 5: video a month, then I'm not going to have enough
• 38:23
  Speaker 5: content to really keep people regularly engage that kind of
• 38:27
  Speaker 5: thing I do.
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: I have done a lot of blogging on my website.
• 38:35
  Speaker 5: One of my ideas is just to take a lot
• 38:37
  Speaker 5: of the content that I already have there and just
• 38:40
  Speaker 5: to to relate it in a more conversational way.
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: Through a video.
• 38:44
  Speaker 5: And I think that I think that that will really
• 38:47
  Speaker 5: help help people understand the issues. Yeah, so, I so
• 38:52
  Speaker 5: the idea is kind of to do maybe either fifty
• 38:56
  Speaker 5: to fifty a title line issue versus a general men's issue,
• 39:00
  Speaker 5: or maybe one third two thirds where it's like one
• 39:03
  Speaker 5: third Title nine issue and two.
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: Thirds general men's issues.
• 39:07
  Speaker 5: That kind of thing, Because the idea is, I want,
• 39:11
  Speaker 5: I do want to get people interested in the title
• 39:13
  Speaker 5: line aspect, but if you start talking to people without
• 39:16
  Speaker 5: Title nine, then I'll understand what it is. A lot
• 39:18
  Speaker 5: of people nowadays think it's about transgender stuff, and it
• 39:21
  Speaker 5: is to a certain extent, but there's so much more
• 39:25
  Speaker 5: to it.
• 39:27
  Speaker 3: Well it was it was a thing that we should
• 39:29
  Speaker 3: have been talking about way before the trans thing became
• 39:31
  Speaker 3: an issue, because the trans thing is a very recent phenomenon,
• 39:35
  Speaker 3: right where So but now everyone's like, oh, we got
• 39:38
  Speaker 3: to do something about Title nine all of a sudden,
• 39:40
  Speaker 3: theybody knows because the women are being affected. But but yeah,
• 39:44
  Speaker 3: I think that's a good idea. What are what are
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: some men general men's issues that you want to talk
• 39:52
  Speaker 3: about when you do this.
• 39:53
  Speaker 5: Yeah, so I think that I think we already touched
• 39:56
  Speaker 5: on one of them, is that what would what would
• 39:59
  Speaker 5: you One of my video ideas is like, make one
• 40:02
  Speaker 5: video about what would happen if men, all men disappeared
• 40:04
  Speaker 5: for a day, you know, what would happen, and then
• 40:07
  Speaker 5: just go down the list of all of the industries
• 40:09
  Speaker 5: that men dominate, you know, like I'll maintain the infrastructure,
• 40:14
  Speaker 5: and just I think it would be kind of an entertaining.
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: Video about how you know, like within.
• 40:18
  Speaker 5: This amount of hours, this would fail, and then that
• 40:20
  Speaker 5: would fail, and that would fail, and you would get
• 40:22
  Speaker 5: maybe two hours of peace before all the roadways were
• 40:25
  Speaker 5: shut down and you know, water treatment plants stopped treating water,
• 40:29
  Speaker 5: and and your electric electricity went out, and that kind
• 40:32
  Speaker 5: of thing, you know, like on day one, this is
• 40:34
  Speaker 5: what it would look like on day two, and then
• 40:36
  Speaker 5: you I can make another video about what if all
• 40:38
  Speaker 5: the women disappeared from the world, and that kind of thing,
• 40:40
  Speaker 5: just kind of make it balance that way, and in
• 40:43
  Speaker 5: that way, I would kind of maybe troll some of
• 40:45
  Speaker 5: the people as well who maybe got a little bit
• 40:48
  Speaker 5: too much on their high horses with like favoring one
• 40:52
  Speaker 5: sex or the other and maybe help establish.
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: Some balance there. Yeah.
• 40:57
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I think there is a certain level of kind
• 40:59
  Speaker 5: of if you want to some of the entertaining value.
• 41:02
  Speaker 5: You want to have some entertaining value, I think absolutely.
• 41:06
  Speaker 5: And some of it is.
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: May involve trolling your own your own fears, so there
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: is that.
• 41:13
  Speaker 5: But yeah, and I think I do think and I
• 41:16
  Speaker 5: have to be careful with YouTube here about their content
• 41:19
  Speaker 5: guidelines or requirements, but I do think we need to
• 41:22
  Speaker 5: address the uh, the dark side and the light side,
• 41:26
  Speaker 5: if you will, of both men and women, because the
• 41:32
  Speaker 5: the way I was brought up and the way a
• 41:34
  Speaker 5: lot of men have been brought up, is they were
• 41:37
  Speaker 5: taught to you know, if like when I went over
• 41:40
  Speaker 5: to my first girlfriend's house and I met her dad
• 41:42
  Speaker 5: for the first time.
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: He was he was like a traditional.
• 41:46
  Speaker 5: Southern dad, Like he walked me over to his gun
• 41:49
  Speaker 5: cabinet and he made he was very clear that if
• 41:53
  Speaker 5: anything happened to his little girl, he would know how
• 41:55
  Speaker 5: to use them right.
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: And you know, we teach young.
• 41:59
  Speaker 5: Women about about how to stay safe and things like that,
• 42:04
  Speaker 5: but we don't teach young men how to stay safe.
• 42:06
  Speaker 5: We don't teach them to identify redless figures.
• 42:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we assume that young men are basically grown adults.
• 42:14
  Speaker 3: Like that's why we you know, we sort of normalize
• 42:17
  Speaker 3: this idea of the you know, the dates dad showing
• 42:20
  Speaker 3: them the guns because there's like it's like it's like
• 42:22
  Speaker 3: giving them hyper agency, right, uh to to like teenage
• 42:26
  Speaker 3: men or young men who are maybe it's their first
• 42:29
  Speaker 3: date ever. Maybe you know, sure their hormones are running
• 42:32
  Speaker 3: wild and they got you know, sex on their mind.
• 42:34
  Speaker 3: But that doesn't necessarily make it okay to terrify them
• 42:38
  Speaker 3: like that, you know, So there should be I think
• 42:40
  Speaker 3: that there should be more balance. And for sure, like
• 42:42
  Speaker 3: we said, men, men can be victimized by their female
• 42:45
  Speaker 3: dates as well.
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: This happens.
• 42:47
  Speaker 3: We didn't even want to call it, you know, rape
• 42:50
  Speaker 3: for like the longest time until pretty recently.
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: So yeah, I think that, uh, that's a good one.
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 42:56
  Speaker 5: And it's it's not about saying like, you know, men
• 42:58
  Speaker 5: are all good, women are all bad, you know. It's
• 43:01
  Speaker 5: it's really just saying, look, there's there's complexity here. There's
• 43:05
  Speaker 5: you know, men do have elements of their behavior that
• 43:08
  Speaker 5: that are distinctively good and distinctively bad, and same thing
• 43:12
  Speaker 5: with women. But the conversation is on that dominates the
• 43:16
  Speaker 5: discussion on gender equality is just all, well, you know,
• 43:19
  Speaker 5: toxic masculinity and the woman is a victim and blah
• 43:22
  Speaker 5: blah blah. And I find that, you know, people have
• 43:26
  Speaker 5: really a political or an ideological incentive to to just
• 43:29
  Speaker 5: deny any kind of.
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: Any kind of harmful.
• 43:34
  Speaker 5: Behavior that is distinctively performed by women, because it's it's
• 43:39
  Speaker 5: immediately you know, if you go if you go far
• 43:42
  Speaker 5: left on the ideological spectrum, they tend to write it
• 43:44
  Speaker 5: off as some kind of well, that's a stereotype, and therefore,
• 43:48
  Speaker 5: because it's a stereotype, and because it's unflattering, that must
• 43:51
  Speaker 5: make it untrue, and that must make it MisOr or
• 43:54
  Speaker 5: it doesn't matter whether it's true or not, because you're
• 43:57
  Speaker 5: you're not flattering, you're being unflattering to the group, you know,
• 44:00
  Speaker 5: things like that, whereas they have absolutely no no problem
• 44:07
  Speaker 5: being unflattering to men. But the reality is that stereotypes
• 44:12
  Speaker 5: often are often true, and it's and it's it's not
• 44:15
  Speaker 5: a matter of just denying those stereotypes. Some stereotypes are
• 44:18
  Speaker 5: definitely false because they're the product of propaganda or biases
• 44:21
  Speaker 5: and things like that, but it's it's not you can't
• 44:25
  Speaker 5: do a wholesale denial of one or the other. You know,
• 44:29
  Speaker 5: we do have to navigate that responsibly, and you know,
• 44:34
  Speaker 5: there has to be someone out there who's willing to
• 44:37
  Speaker 5: do that, and there's just very few who are.
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: I hate to say it, No, it's true.
• 44:43
  Speaker 3: Although there's something else too, because another consequence of or
• 44:48
  Speaker 3: a weird side effect of this thing that we're talking
• 44:51
  Speaker 3: about is that, you know, these these men who have
• 44:55
  Speaker 3: these these what do you call it, the dark triad traits,
• 45:00
  Speaker 3: like the you know, the the bad boy men, but
• 45:04
  Speaker 3: they have the dark triad traits. These are the ones
• 45:06
  Speaker 3: that are the most attractive to women, and they're the
• 45:09
  Speaker 3: ones that usually put women in a situation where they
• 45:12
  Speaker 3: end up being a single mother. So there's so like
• 45:15
  Speaker 3: and then of course, you know, so I think what's
• 45:18
  Speaker 3: what's what is.
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: A real challenge there?
• 45:20
  Speaker 3: Just as an aside, is that what has to happen
• 45:23
  Speaker 3: if we want that to sort of correct itself in
• 45:26
  Speaker 3: some way, which I think we want, Like if I
• 45:28
  Speaker 3: don't think that single moms want to be single moms, yeah,
• 45:33
  Speaker 3: any more than you know, men want to be like
• 45:36
  Speaker 3: end up raising children that aren't theres or something like that.
• 45:39
  Speaker 3: So what we need is a bit more honesty and
• 45:41
  Speaker 3: transparency about like what you know are It's not just
• 45:46
  Speaker 3: that are men behaving badly, because there are men who
• 45:49
  Speaker 3: behave badly, But the problem is is that if women
• 45:52
  Speaker 3: reward that behavior, then there's going to be more of
• 45:55
  Speaker 3: that behavior.
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: So there has to be a.
• 45:57
  Speaker 3: Conversation about like what what behaviors do we incentivize and
• 46:01
  Speaker 3: which ones do we disincentivize, and can we do that
• 46:04
  Speaker 3: without really worrying about you know, what the plumbing is
• 46:08
  Speaker 3: of the person that's engaging in it.
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure.
• 46:13
  Speaker 3: So so in the last what would you say? This
• 46:18
  Speaker 3: is a question I like to ask people that haven't
• 46:20
  Speaker 3: been on in a while, in what ways do you
• 46:23
  Speaker 3: think you have changed in like the last since twenty nineteen?
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: Have you since twenty nineteen?
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 46:30
  Speaker 3: Since the way we last had you had talked to
• 46:32
  Speaker 3: you like this is that the ic of I I know,
• 46:34
  Speaker 3: Coche changed people in some ways, but like, are there
• 46:37
  Speaker 3: anything like any ways that you're you know, maybe your
• 46:40
  Speaker 3: views have changed maybe or you've learned some things that
• 46:44
  Speaker 3: you didn't know.
• 46:45
  Speaker 5: Before, or yeah, I have changed in a few ways.
• 46:49
  Speaker 5: I do think that I do think that there is
• 46:55
  Speaker 5: a very real danger that there are there are like
• 47:01
  Speaker 5: the Andrew Tits of the world are going to cause
• 47:04
  Speaker 5: damage not only to to innocent people, but also to
• 47:10
  Speaker 5: to the cause of just paying attention.
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: And empathizing with men and boys.
• 47:15
  Speaker 5: I do think there is a certain amount of that,
• 47:17
  Speaker 5: and so I think the more balanced and positive voices
• 47:20
  Speaker 5: we have out there that are not that are you know,
• 47:24
  Speaker 5: just speaking with authenticity. You know, they're not afraid to
• 47:26
  Speaker 5: tell it what it is, so they've got that. That
• 47:29
  Speaker 5: is one positive of Andrew Tate, right Like you you
• 47:32
  Speaker 5: get the feeling that he's very blunt, he's very direct
• 47:34
  Speaker 5: and all that kind of stuff, and perhaps he's just
• 47:36
  Speaker 5: a big show man or whatever, but but he presents
• 47:40
  Speaker 5: that feeling well, I think in in his published content,
• 47:45
  Speaker 5: and I think I think people people gravitate towards that,
• 47:50
  Speaker 5: and they need that kind of no nonsense, you know, No,
• 47:53
  Speaker 5: they need that feeling of authenticity, and I think that
• 47:58
  Speaker 5: needs to come from more people who are speaking a
• 48:00
  Speaker 5: better message and things like that.
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: So that in that sense, I have changed. I do
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: have to say.
• 48:07
  Speaker 3: About you didn't feel like what did you feel about
• 48:10
  Speaker 3: that before, were.
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: You kind of indifferent?
• 48:12
  Speaker 5: Well, I feel like before it was a lot more overblown,
• 48:15
  Speaker 5: because between like twenty ten, twenty eleven or whatever, a
• 48:20
  Speaker 5: lot of the criticisms of people who talked in behalf
• 48:24
  Speaker 5: of Men were disingenuous. I oh yeah, sure, just absolute
• 48:30
  Speaker 5: belligerent propaganda by people who knew they could get away
• 48:33
  Speaker 5: with it, right, And and you know, there were some
• 48:38
  Speaker 5: things that honestly I would have done well hindsight twenty twenty,
• 48:43
  Speaker 5: I would have done better if I were other people.
• 48:45
  Speaker 5: I'm not trying to knock too many other people in
• 48:48
  Speaker 5: the movement that much, but there were. But I do
• 48:52
  Speaker 5: feel like the ratio of how fairly or un fairly
• 49:00
  Speaker 5: rather people were portrayed was very different ten years ago
• 49:04
  Speaker 5: than compared to, like say, some of the extreme people today.
• 49:08
  Speaker 5: I feel like, I feel like finally they found you know,
• 49:13
  Speaker 5: finally mainstream media or whatever has finally found a legitimate
• 49:16
  Speaker 5: bad actor, you know that they can latch onto and
• 49:19
  Speaker 5: things like that. So whereas back then a lot of
• 49:22
  Speaker 5: the criticisms were.
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: Disingenerous, I see.
• 49:26
  Speaker 5: And another way that I've changed is that I've started
• 49:30
  Speaker 5: to I have started to look at these issues in
• 49:33
  Speaker 5: a little bit more of a balanced way. I do
• 49:36
  Speaker 5: want to say, there is so much complexity to what
• 49:40
  Speaker 5: we do in the world of Title nine, for example,
• 49:44
  Speaker 5: And if you are a traditional I'll just say the
• 49:50
  Speaker 5: me of twenty thirteen or even twenty fifteen would not
• 49:56
  Speaker 5: have been able, would not have been equal to the
• 49:58
  Speaker 5: task that is before me today. And I do feel
• 50:03
  Speaker 5: like I have changed in that regard, because one of
• 50:07
  Speaker 5: the things that you'll learn whenever you're advising AC students
• 50:11
  Speaker 5: is that you cannot always attribute every unfavorable or frustrating
• 50:18
  Speaker 5: outcome to bias on behalf of administrators or the institution,
• 50:22
  Speaker 5: et cetera. Sometimes people are just poorly trained. Sometimes people
• 50:26
  Speaker 5: just get busy. It is true that and if you
• 50:29
  Speaker 5: if you just come in pounding on the table and
• 50:33
  Speaker 5: accusing people of being biased and things like that, you're
• 50:37
  Speaker 5: you're going to have a hard time trying to get
• 50:41
  Speaker 5: them to help you in areas where you do have
• 50:43
  Speaker 5: where they do have a lot of discretion, and they
• 50:45
  Speaker 5: do have a lot of discretion in these areas, so
• 50:49
  Speaker 5: you really have to work on your salesmanship with these people.
• 50:53
  Speaker 5: It's not just a matter of you know, a lot
• 50:56
  Speaker 5: of I think a lot of act people who identify
• 50:59
  Speaker 5: as act activists, they see activism as shouting their opinions
• 51:03
  Speaker 5: at people online, but you just can't do that here.
• 51:07
  Speaker 5: And it's really a lot of it is about knowing
• 51:10
  Speaker 5: when to be silent and really erring on the side
• 51:14
  Speaker 5: of saying.
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: Less if anything.
• 51:17
  Speaker 5: And that back ten years ago, when I was mainly
• 51:21
  Speaker 5: running a blog, is that mainly existed as a defiant
• 51:25
  Speaker 5: critique of our institutions, and I still do that to
• 51:28
  Speaker 5: a certain degree. I would say I was less disciplined
• 51:32
  Speaker 5: than than I am today. So in that sense, I
• 51:37
  Speaker 5: have changed, and I do think that seeing more of
• 51:41
  Speaker 5: the side of in my research, I've also seen more
• 51:43
  Speaker 5: of the side of women's issues as well, and there
• 51:46
  Speaker 5: are some legitimate, you know, women's issues.
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: It's not as much an issue of legal rights as
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: it is enforcement of those rights that are already guaranteed.
• 51:56
  Speaker 5: And I do think that that helps me in my
• 52:00
  Speaker 5: own advocacy and assisting a huge students as well.
• 52:04
  Speaker 3: Mm hmmmm.
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: I think that the.
• 52:09
  Speaker 3: That is a healthy way to operate, because you know,
• 52:15
  Speaker 3: I can understand I have a focus on, you know,
• 52:18
  Speaker 3: obviously talking about men's issues, but I do understand for
• 52:23
  Speaker 3: a few reasons, one of them being the fact that
• 52:25
  Speaker 3: men and women are different. So when they experience something,
• 52:29
  Speaker 3: the way that women internalize it is different, even if
• 52:35
  Speaker 3: it's even if they're the same, you know, in every
• 52:38
  Speaker 3: other metric, So you have to like talk to them
• 52:40
  Speaker 3: in that way so that they, you know what I mean,
• 52:43
  Speaker 3: I don't know if you it makes sense. Like, for example,
• 52:46
  Speaker 3: there was a very famous feminist academic named Naomi Wolf,
• 52:50
  Speaker 3: and she wrote many books, and she debated Karen in
• 52:54
  Speaker 3: the past and I and then when the COVID thing happened,
• 53:00
  Speaker 3: she kind of like changed her entire focus. Now, this
• 53:03
  Speaker 3: was also shortly after she was disgraced for some like
• 53:07
  Speaker 3: really awful statistic that she had in a book that
• 53:10
  Speaker 3: basically discredited her a lot. Yeah, but she ended up
• 53:13
  Speaker 3: changing gears and talking a lot about stuff dealing with,
• 53:17
  Speaker 3: you know, the vaccines and COVID, et cetera, and the
• 53:19
  Speaker 3: and the government response and the Internet censorship, et cetera.
• 53:23
  Speaker 3: And then as a result of that, because I was
• 53:26
  Speaker 3: kind of like, I wasn't watching closely, but I was
• 53:28
  Speaker 3: noticing her sort of popping up, you know, in my
• 53:33
  Speaker 3: I don't know, in my mentions in my space. Occasionally
• 53:35
  Speaker 3: i'll see something about her. And she got interviewed by
• 53:38
  Speaker 3: Jordan B. Peterson and he he did a talk with
• 53:42
  Speaker 3: someone else later and said that, you know, Naomi Wolf
• 53:46
  Speaker 3: had this really she became a feminist partly because she
• 53:50
  Speaker 3: had this really bad experience with a man. And I
• 53:53
  Speaker 3: know this seems like kind of a cliche thing, you know,
• 53:56
  Speaker 3: have bad experience, become an active as as a result.
• 53:59
  Speaker 3: And I know it doesn't excuse like any of the
• 54:01
  Speaker 3: really like wrong or you know, untrue things she may
• 54:05
  Speaker 3: have said, or the way it affects her bias. But
• 54:08
  Speaker 3: I think that because she is a woman, on some level,
• 54:11
  Speaker 3: I have to be like, Okay, I get it, you know,
• 54:14
  Speaker 3: and it doesn't doesn't really affect my views on anything
• 54:19
  Speaker 3: that I can see as objective, but it does, I think,
• 54:22
  Speaker 3: make me a little bit more careful about how I
• 54:26
  Speaker 3: talk to these people because you don't want to, you know,
• 54:29
  Speaker 3: I don't know, like, you don't want to be as
• 54:32
  Speaker 3: cruel as maybe they have been to you, because I
• 54:34
  Speaker 3: think that that's another thing that you run the risk of. Right.
• 54:37
  Speaker 5: So yeah, it's that's the classic tale of advocacy, right,
• 54:41
  Speaker 5: Like you peer into the void, and the.
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: Void peers back at you, right, and you you try
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: not to become the thing that that you hate.
• 54:49
  Speaker 5: And yeah, there there is the real risk of that, right,
• 54:54
  Speaker 5: like with with the with any kind of philosophical or
• 54:59
  Speaker 5: social movement, you know.
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: So I think that, and I think this election.
• 55:05
  Speaker 2: Is and that is how it gets tribal.
• 55:08
  Speaker 3: That is like how it gets tribal, right, because as
• 55:10
  Speaker 3: soon as you stop, like even like I know that,
• 55:14
  Speaker 3: you know, there are people who aren't on the feminist
• 55:17
  Speaker 3: side or whatever that would at least say they don't
• 55:21
  Speaker 3: care if I, like, you know, drop dead tomorrow or whatever.
• 55:25
  Speaker 3: I've got my haters, but it's fine, Like I don't,
• 55:30
  Speaker 3: I don't wish anything on them, and I just kind
• 55:32
  Speaker 3: of carry on and I and I usually don't.
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: I'm not vocal about like.
• 55:36
  Speaker 3: What I really like believe about things if if it's
• 55:40
  Speaker 3: not necessary, but I sort of let things play out,
• 55:43
  Speaker 3: you know. So, like you're gonna mention this election, So
• 55:46
  Speaker 3: what were you going to say about that?
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: Oh?
• 55:48
  Speaker 5: I was just gonna say, I think this election is
• 55:52
  Speaker 5: as much was as much a referendum on issues like
• 55:55
  Speaker 5: the economy and in certain campaign strategies as it was
• 55:58
  Speaker 5: on bibilistic social policies like.
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: You know, wokeness or whatever you want to call it.
• 56:03
  Speaker 5: This this kind of view that you know, like that
• 56:09
  Speaker 5: you have to yeah, this kind of sex and race tribalism,
• 56:13
  Speaker 5: that that has really taken over a lot of identity politics.
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: And what what I.
• 56:18
  Speaker 5: See far too much in a lot of the identity
• 56:23
  Speaker 5: politics that have dominated the last thirty years is there's
• 56:26
  Speaker 5: there has been you know, there's been a huge problem
• 56:29
  Speaker 5: in not in a focus a focus on not ending
• 56:32
  Speaker 5: discrimination or hatred, but rather on redistributing those those evils
• 56:38
  Speaker 5: onto other groups. And and one of the things I
• 56:41
  Speaker 5: really like to say is that everyone in their own mind,
• 56:46
  Speaker 5: everyone who discriminates, in their own mind, believes that they
• 56:51
  Speaker 5: do so for a good cause.
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: And that's that's true no matter what movement you look
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: at that discriminates.
• 56:57
  Speaker 5: And you know, in the last thirty years, there are
• 57:00
  Speaker 5: been a lot of policy proposals and things put into
• 57:03
  Speaker 5: law that that do discriminate on the basis of sex
• 57:07
  Speaker 5: and race. And and at this I think that that
• 57:11
  Speaker 5: is not that should not be the bar, right, Like
• 57:14
  Speaker 5: we what we need to have the bar to be
• 57:16
  Speaker 5: is we're not discriminating against anyone on the basis of
• 57:19
  Speaker 5: sex and race. Because as soon as you lower the
• 57:22
  Speaker 5: bar and say, okay, it's okay to discriminate, but we're
• 57:26
  Speaker 5: not going to call it discrimination because it's for a
• 57:29
  Speaker 5: good cause that makes us feel good. Well, now you've
• 57:32
  Speaker 5: just lowered the bar to we have to haggle on
• 57:35
  Speaker 5: what discrimination is acceptable. And once you're once you're on
• 57:39
  Speaker 5: that Once you have lowered to that point, now you're
• 57:41
  Speaker 5: now you run the risk of other people advocating discrimination
• 57:45
  Speaker 5: that you may not necessarily agree with, but they, in
• 57:49
  Speaker 5: their own minds believe it is for a good cause.
• 57:52
  Speaker 5: And so long is enough people agree that it's for
• 57:55
  Speaker 5: a good cause, Well, if you've already agreed to that model,
• 57:58
  Speaker 5: how can you really complain or how much can you
• 58:01
  Speaker 5: really complain? And so I think that we really need
• 58:04
  Speaker 5: to raise the bar. And the bar has definitely been
• 58:06
  Speaker 5: lowered up and you know, over the past thirty years,
• 58:10
  Speaker 5: and I think this election is an indicator that we
• 58:13
  Speaker 5: are moving away from from that lowered bar and raising
• 58:17
  Speaker 5: it back up.
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 58:19
  Speaker 3: And I think that this last election, I've said this,
• 58:23
  Speaker 3: it's kind of the it's the ultimate culmination of a
• 58:28
  Speaker 3: forced gender war where you know, a good word, Yeah,
• 58:34
  Speaker 3: it was forced it was forced by you know, the cathedral,
• 58:37
  Speaker 3: the institutions. It was basically pushing women on men and
• 58:41
  Speaker 3: against men, and men for the for the most part,
• 58:44
  Speaker 3: was trying to stay out of it, or they just
• 58:46
  Speaker 3: sort of like kept their head down. And then when
• 58:48
  Speaker 3: election I came, they all just kind of said, Okay,
• 58:50
  Speaker 3: we're gonna Because I, again, I don't have the absolute
• 58:53
  Speaker 3: proof of this, but I was hearing from Elon Musk
• 58:57
  Speaker 3: that men were going out and voting in record numbers yesterday.
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: So I don't have the statistics on that. That would
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: definitely be interested.
• 59:06
  Speaker 3: I would find it really interesting too, do I do too,
• 59:09
  Speaker 3: because generally men are less likely to go vote than women.
• 59:12
  Speaker 3: But Elon said that, and I tried to look into
• 59:17
  Speaker 3: it and have a lot of time.
• 59:18
  Speaker 2: But I think it's really interesting because.
• 59:20
  Speaker 3: You know, I spoke to a libertarian candidate for Prime
• 59:23
  Speaker 3: Minister of Canada, I don't know, a few years ago,
• 59:26
  Speaker 3: Tim Mowen, and I was trying to help him understand
• 59:30
  Speaker 3: that the dynamic that we're operating under is not actually
• 59:33
  Speaker 3: a left right dynamic.
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: It's a male and female one.
• 59:36
  Speaker 3: And because men and women are different and have different
• 59:38
  Speaker 3: things that they value, and that's where And it's not
• 59:42
  Speaker 3: like it's always been that way, but that's where what
• 59:44
  Speaker 3: it has become, where we've essentially put women's issues as
• 59:48
  Speaker 3: specifically this kind of you know group, and men's issues
• 59:52
  Speaker 3: is basically everything else or it's just sort of left
• 59:54
  Speaker 3: out on the side, and this is why it doesn't
• 59:56
  Speaker 3: get a lot of attention. But I think that's changing
• 59:59
  Speaker 3: because I saw doctor Warren Ferrell did an appearance on
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 3: Megan Kelly's show very recently. It was like the video
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 3: was uploaded like this morning. I didn't get a chance
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 3: to watch it, but I thought it was great, and uh,
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 3: you know because I and that's what I'm saying, Like,
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 3: my my whole goal the whole time was just to
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 3: get people talking about it that normally don't and that's
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 3: happening more and more all the time. So I'm, you know,
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 3: it's pretty exciting. That pretty exciting time in my in
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 3: my opinion.
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 5: Yeah, And I usually, unfortunately, because we live we have
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 5: a two party system, a lot of people do not
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 5: learn from, do not take the opportunity to learn the
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 5: lessons of failed elections. And I just hope that I
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 5: hope that this is enough of a loss or rather
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 5: I hope that this is that that's probably not the
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 5: right way to say. I hope that the impact of
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 5: this election has has really helped people think that, like,
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 5: you know, we have to start looking at things a
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 5: different way, because because I do think a lot of
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 5: people who identify as progressive they ironically live in the
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 5: past just.
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: As much or more than conservatives do.
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 5: Like they they do act as though and speak as
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 5: though we are still living in the nineteen fifties, or
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 5: you know, we're one step away from from a you know,
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 5: the inmates tale from a theocracy or whatever. And there
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 5: are certainly disturbing elements right every now and then, but
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 5: the id but it's very much overblown and and oh
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 5: my god, I think that we have to get to
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 5: a point where we no longer.
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: Where we really are inclusive.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 5: We're not just you know, oh we're these these groups
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 5: have been favored, so now we're going to totally ignore
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 5: them and favor these other groups to make up for it.
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: We can't be like that going forward.
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 5: You know, like we have to say, you know, look
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 5: like men have issues, women have issues, and it's okay
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 5: for there to be advocates for both issues, and that's fine.
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: You know, and we need to have people who understand that.
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: And of course each.
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 5: Movement needs a certain amount of you know, it needs
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 5: quality control and stuff.
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: Like that, and I think that's where the conversation needs
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: to be, you.
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 3: Know, yeah, yeah, for sure. Well we're going to end
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 3: it here. We're going to go into the Patron Show
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 3: and talk to the patrons. So stick around, don't go,
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 3: because I want to talk a little bit about what
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 3: your thoughts are on education reform and these other things
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 3: that have been.
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: Discussed speaking of the election.
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 3: But anyway, so I want to thank you guys for
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 3: joining me on the show, and thank you Jonathan Taylor.
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 2: It was good seeing you again.
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 3: It's been a long time, so it's good though, and
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 3: thank you.
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 3: So with that said, if you guys like this video,
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 3: please like subscribe if you're not already subscribe to the bellflalifications.
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 3: Leave it the comment let's know you guys think about
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 3: what we discussed on the show today. You could find
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 3: linked to Jonathan Taylor's YouTube channel, The common Man in
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 3: the description More to Come there, as well as his
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 3: website title nine for All I Think And your Twitter?
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah do you still use your Twitter?
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: Yah?
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 3: Okay, okay, yeah, so you can yeah follow him on
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 3: form Twitter formally Twitter. Yeah, and please please please share
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 3: this video because sharing is caring. Thank you so much
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 3: for coming on today's episode of The Fireside Chat, and
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 3: we'll talk to you guys in the next video.
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: Are machines, dude, Okay, they are literal machines. They are
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: talking point machines.
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 5: They are impossible to deal with, especially if you have,
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 5: like especially if you have like a couple of dudes
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 5: who have good memory.
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 2: On top of that, too, holy shit, you're fucked.