Latest / Every Church Flourishing by the Great Commission Association / Episode 39: Uncensored Insider's View of Church Renewal - How to Confront and Help Heal Church Problems and Failures + Throwback Vietnamese Sarsaparilla Soda Review.

Transcript

Episode 39: Uncensored Insider's View of Church Renewal - How to Confront and Help Heal Church Problems and Failures + Throwback Vietnamese Sarsaparilla Soda Review. · Every Church Flourishing by the Great Commission Association

0:00
Speaker3: Young leaders, if you've listened to this show for a while, you know that we
0:04
Speaker3: at the Every Church Flourishing podcast often harp on the importance of churches
0:09
Speaker3: developing the next generation of leaders.
0:13
Speaker3: To be sustainable, churches need to constantly prioritize getting younger people
0:19
Speaker3: involved in leadership.
0:21
Speaker3: I know it's not simple, but one of our guests today, Tammy Smarinski,
0:25
Speaker3: is going to talk to us about what happens when churches don't make that a priority.
0:31
Speaker0: When the people leading the church are, I don't want to say old,
0:34
Speaker0: but they're elderly and there's not like that next generation coming.
0:37
Speaker0: There's not like two or three generations below them coming.
0:40
Speaker0: I mean, there's a problem. Shouldn't be a surprise, right? So,
0:43
Speaker0: and even when they asked me to do stuff, to be honest, I feel like I'm already
0:47
Speaker0: in the latter generation. I'm like, well, I can do it now, but we got to get
0:51
Speaker0: people younger than me involved and we don't have them. So...
1:14
Speaker2: Resources that work together to build up your local fellowship and the broader kingdom of God.
1:18
Speaker2: Join hosts, Pastor Chris Cole and Dr. Chase Thompson from the Great Commission
1:23
Speaker2: Association, led by Dr. Mike Stewart, as they explore the frontiers of ministry
1:27
Speaker2: and aim for the goal of making every church flourish.
1:30
Speaker3: Hello, everybody, and welcome into episode number 39 of the Every Church Flourishing Podcast.
1:37
Speaker3: We are brought to you by the Great Commission Association of Churches,
1:41
Speaker3: And our website is gcasbc.org.
1:46
Speaker3: And today we're talking about church renewal, church replanting,
1:50
Speaker3: and we're going to take an entirely different perspective on that.
1:54
Speaker3: In fact, I don't think I've heard another podcast take this perspective.
1:58
Speaker3: And we're going to interview members of churches that are in that process of revitalization.
2:06
Speaker3: And we're going to talk to them about what it looks like from an insider's point
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Speaker3: of view. So today we've got Tammy Smierenski and Samuel Kamu.
2:14
Speaker3: Samuel is at Calvary Baptist Church, which is right there in Santa Clara in Silicon Valley.
2:22
Speaker3: It is a church that began in 1959 with a group of 14 people that was gathering
2:30
Speaker3: just for a time of prayer.
2:32
Speaker3: It had explosive growth early on, reaching well over 200 members by 1966.
2:39
Speaker3: It has, over the years, supported international missions, conducted backyard
2:44
Speaker3: Bible schools and vacation Bible schools, gone on mission trips.
2:49
Speaker3: It's hosted a Korean congregation in its building and then later a Persian congregation.
2:55
Speaker3: And in 1997, the year that Dr.
2:58
Speaker3: Michael Stewart came to the GCA, the Great Commission Association,
3:02
Speaker3: they had him there for their anniversary church celebration.
3:06
Speaker3: And Tammy is at Oak Grove Baptist Church, very nearby, also in Silicon Valley, in San Jose,
3:13
Speaker3: It is also founded at roughly the same time, 1966. It was a plant or a mission
3:21
Speaker3: of Foxworthy Baptist Church.
3:23
Speaker3: It originally was called Downer Avenue Baptist Church and later became Oak Grove
3:29
Speaker3: Baptist Church, which I think is a significant improvement name-wise.
3:33
Speaker3: It's currently celebrating its 60th anniversary. It's part of the SBC.
3:38
Speaker3: And we have a deep connection as the GCA with Oak Grove because we've had an
3:44
Speaker3: administrator with the GCA, Bob Bailey, who is also an administrator in the church.
3:49
Speaker3: And I think Bob Bailey has been with the GCA for about the last four or five
3:53
Speaker3: centuries. So long term roots there.
3:57
Speaker2: Well, I am so glad we get to have this conversation with two people I am proud to call friends.
4:03
Speaker2: I have gotten to know both of them much, much better over the last couple of
4:08
Speaker2: years, and together we have prayed, and we have even perhaps argued a little
4:15
Speaker2: bit, maybe with both of these guests today.
4:18
Speaker2: They've contended well with me and pointed out the flaws in my thinking,
4:25
Speaker2: and I am grateful for their refinement of my soul and their refinement of my ministry. and
4:33
Speaker2: What's exciting to me about both of these people is the heart that God has given
4:38
Speaker2: them to lead as lay people within the local congregation.
4:43
Speaker2: Now, I'm going to try and tell you little bits of things about them that they
4:47
Speaker2: don't know that I'm going to share.
4:48
Speaker2: Well, Tammy will try to tell you that, you know, her chief activities in life
4:54
Speaker2: are things like worship hula dancing, which is I'm not making that up.
4:59
Speaker2: That's actually really true.
5:01
Speaker2: And in fact, she's got an upcoming worship hula night, I think,
5:05
Speaker2: happening at Oak Grove. Oh, it was. It just happened.
5:08
Speaker2: Just happened. And she'll tell you that she's a substitute school teacher.
5:12
Speaker2: What she doesn't tell you is that she had a long career in various types of
5:21
Speaker2: high-end tech corporation investment and board oversight.
5:25
Speaker2: And she teaches board oversight and engagement programs.
5:30
Speaker2: For Fortune 500 companies. She is very, very smart. She's worked on Wall Street.
5:35
Speaker2: A lot of people would just kind of make that their upfront resume.
5:41
Speaker2: Tammy leads in worship in her church, and she will contend mightily if she thinks
5:48
Speaker2: you are wrong, but she loves deeply, and I am deeply grateful for her.
5:53
Speaker2: Samuel Komu, what a wonderful brother in Christ.
5:57
Speaker2: He is the only person I know who not only plays the piano, but will do it while
6:03
Speaker2: sitting on top of a slap top that he will do and provide
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Speaker2: percussion for his congregation while leading in worship as well.
6:14
Speaker2: Samuel has been a wonderful deacon and servant of the church there at Calvary
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Speaker2: Baptist, and he is a brilliant man.
6:25
Speaker2: He works in the tech world. He has raised these amazing sons who are just godly young men.
6:34
Speaker2: And his wife, Meany, is a great joy to be around as well.
6:40
Speaker2: And they just serve their church in so many different ways.
6:44
Speaker2: It's hard to explain how much his family is invested in the life and health
6:50
Speaker2: and flourishing of the church.
6:52
Speaker2: So I'm grateful that we get to have these two leaders with us today on the Every
6:58
Speaker2: Church Flourishing podcast. Thank you for joining us.
7:01
Speaker2: Today, and we'll probably learn more about you guys along the way.
7:05
Speaker2: But before we talk about church renewal, church replanting, church revitalization,
7:12
Speaker2: and anything else that needs to change in your church, tell us something
7:17
Speaker2: that you guys love about your church.
7:22
Speaker2: And so, Tammy, how about we start with you?
7:26
Speaker2: What do you love about Oak Grove, and what has it meant to you personally?
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Speaker0: I've been at Oak Grove Baptist Church for six years.
7:34
Speaker0: And so even when I read that question, I had to really sort of pause for a minute
7:37
Speaker0: because the whole story about how I got there and why I'm still there,
7:41
Speaker0: it's not because I grew up there and spent decades and kind of loved that church.
7:47
Speaker0: It's kind of where God placed me. What I really like about it has been that
7:51
Speaker0: I felt like, especially like during the lockdown with COVID,
7:55
Speaker0: I felt like it was a good family, a good small community, right?
7:58
Speaker0: And I enjoyed the fellowship and the people.
8:01
Speaker0: Everybody there is just really kind and loving.
8:03
Speaker0: We've had special needs adults. We've had people with serious health issues.
8:08
Speaker0: And I just feel like the people that go there really love on each other.
8:11
Speaker0: So I really love that and appreciate it. But sort of beyond that,
8:15
Speaker0: I think that's part of why we're here is to talk about the church itself and
8:18
Speaker0: how is it functioning and is it healthy.
8:21
Speaker0: That's been the tougher part, but I feel like this is where God has placed me.
8:24
Speaker2: Thank you. Samuel, at Calvary Baptist Church, what do you love about it,
8:28
Speaker2: and what has it meant to you and to your family?
8:31
Speaker1: We've been here about 10 years. So, again, not decades like some of the folks who have been here.
8:38
Speaker1: But the thing is, as Tammy was saying, we feel God placed us here,
8:43
Speaker1: especially at a point when the kids back then, like, I mean,
8:46
Speaker1: they were under 10 maybe, right?
8:49
Speaker1: You were saying the kids are so involved in the church, right?
8:51
Speaker1: The truth is, you know, the church has invested a lot into their lives over the last 10 years.
8:58
Speaker1: At every stage, right, I was just thinking, Shalom, like they started,
9:04
Speaker1: the church started encouraging him and supporting him, even when he was 16,
9:08
Speaker1: to actually help with the pulpit supply.
9:11
Speaker1: When we started thinking about Treniv, one of the older gentlemen basically
9:16
Speaker1: said, maybe I shouldn't say older gentlemen, please, Pastor Chase, cut it out. No,
9:25
Speaker1: But why is there folks, right?
9:29
Speaker1: His suggestion was immediately, he was not even 18. His suggestion was Shalom
9:34
Speaker1: needs to know this, Shalom needs to understand this, so he needs to be part of this, right?
9:39
Speaker1: And it's the same thing with Nathaniel. He is 15 and we have folks asking him
9:45
Speaker1: to start looking at the finances and start providing his inputs on that.
9:51
Speaker1: As a 15 year old for youth and things like that so to me this aspect of calvary
9:57
Speaker1: is is the piece that we love the most because our kids are for us they're precious
10:03
Speaker1: and to see a family come together and invest so much into them we love that
10:08
Speaker1: and of course like for us personally to calvary
10:12
Speaker1: Calvary has got our back. So we love being part of that, being growing together.
10:18
Speaker3: Okay, great. You know, just listening to you guys, I could tell you care for
10:21
Speaker3: your churches, and that's obviously crucial and important.
10:26
Speaker3: But since we're in the renew process, that does mean that some changes are necessary.
10:33
Speaker3: So I'm going to ask you this first, Tammy.
10:35
Speaker3: At what point did you personally begin to realize that things in the church
10:42
Speaker3: needed to change, maybe even a radical amount of change?
10:47
Speaker3: Was there like a moment or was it something you more gradually began to realize
10:53
Speaker3: that we're going a direction we need to change to a different direction?
10:58
Speaker0: So before I even came to the church, because my mom and stepfather started going,
11:02
Speaker0: I think, around 2014, I already knew there was a lot of drama going on at the church.
11:07
Speaker0: So I already was aware of that. And I've always been a big churchist.
11:10
Speaker0: I mean, I grew up as part of a Catholic church. It was a big church.
11:14
Speaker0: And then when I became born again
11:16
Speaker0: Christian, or sort of left the Catholic church, I was at big churches.
11:19
Speaker0: So Oak Grove was really, from my first experience, with a smaller church.
11:23
Speaker0: And I didn't really know what was normal.
11:27
Speaker0: And I would hear about things sort of before I got there. I actually started
11:31
Speaker0: attending Oak Grove on the day after the lockdown of the churches,
11:34
Speaker0: Because once that sort of happened, I wanted to be with my mom and my stepfather,
11:39
Speaker0: and we would watch the services together.
11:41
Speaker0: And eventually we started going to the churches together. So I kind of went with them.
11:46
Speaker0: And I was just kind of attending and not really sort of even understanding what.
11:52
Speaker0: It seemed odd to me, but I wasn't really paying attention.
11:56
Speaker0: But when the pastor that we had left, there was no plan and it seemed to catch
12:02
Speaker0: everybody by surprise and they were asking me to step up.
12:06
Speaker0: That's kind of when I was like, wait a minute, this is way more dysfunctional
12:09
Speaker0: than I realized. And obviously once I started getting more and more engaged
12:14
Speaker0: and involved, I started sort of asking a lot of questions and started just realizing
12:19
Speaker0: that just a lot of things.
12:21
Speaker0: And there's nobody to blame.
12:23
Speaker0: The church had shrunk to such a size that there was no real support infrastructure.
12:29
Speaker0: It was a couple of people sort of carrying all the weight.
12:32
Speaker0: And I just didn't know. I just wasn't really paying attention.
12:35
Speaker0: But once the pastor left and I was asked to step in, that's when I started realizing,
12:39
Speaker0: hey, we've got big problems. And the fact that people don't fully appreciate
12:44
Speaker0: how big these problems are, that's a problem. Yeah.
12:47
Speaker0: When the people leading the church are, I don't want to say old,
12:50
Speaker0: but they're elderly and there's not like that next generation coming.
12:53
Speaker0: There's not like two or three generations below them coming.
12:57
Speaker0: I mean, there's a problem. Shouldn't be a surprise.
12:59
Speaker0: Right. So, and even when they asked me to do stuff, to be honest,
13:02
Speaker0: I feel like I'm already in the latter generation. I'm like, well,
13:06
Speaker0: I can do it now, but we, we got to get people younger than me involved and we
13:09
Speaker0: don't have them. So yeah.
13:11
Speaker0: Like, that's kind of the way I was looking at it. So that's,
13:13
Speaker0: so really when the pastor left and they asked me to step up.
13:15
Speaker3: Okay. That's, that's tough. I'll tell you before I asked Samuel the same question,
13:20
Speaker3: my first run as a pastor, I wasn't ready for it. I was in my mid twenties.
13:25
Speaker3: I was at a church with an extremely popular pastor. I was the youth minister
13:29
Speaker3: there and he was kind of mentoring me and a couple of other young guys.
13:32
Speaker3: And all of the sudden he, out of the blue, at least as far as me and the rest
13:38
Speaker3: of the church was concerned, he announced he was leaving.
13:41
Speaker3: And within a week of announcing that, he had left. He left me in charge as the
13:45
Speaker3: pastor, and he took a big chunk of the church's money.
13:49
Speaker3: And that went about as well as you would think it would.
13:53
Speaker3: So I guess if you're a pastor listening to this, I would just say,
13:57
Speaker3: be good to your church and don't suddenly leave if you can help it,
14:02
Speaker3: because it can really leave things in shambles when you do that.
14:07
Speaker0: I'm not completely sure that it was a sudden decision.
14:12
Speaker0: It was presented that way to the congregation, but he had just retired.
14:16
Speaker0: You know, the pastor was a part-time pastor and he had retired from his job. He was older.
14:23
Speaker0: So it's not like people shouldn't have been assuming at some point he might
14:27
Speaker0: retire, you know, or whatever.
14:29
Speaker0: We live in Silicon Valley. People move out of the Bay Area once they retire.
14:33
Speaker0: So I guess my only point would be that like, I don't want to characterize it
14:37
Speaker0: as like, I don't want to put this all on the pastor's shoulders that he just
14:39
Speaker0: kind of got up and left us.
14:41
Speaker0: Then we were shocked, but it was a, it was a surprise to me because I wasn't
14:44
Speaker0: involved in the worrying about the operations of the church.
14:49
Speaker0: So just to clarify that, sorry.
14:50
Speaker3: Well, it sounds like communications issue there. And I think that communications
14:53
Speaker3: was an issue in my situation too, all the way back in the late nineties,
14:58
Speaker3: because this is probably not a snap decision he reached.
15:01
Speaker3: It's just a snap decision that it seemed like that from our perspective,
15:06
Speaker3: because I think he was holding his own counsel and not telling anybody.
15:10
Speaker3: So, Samuel, from your perspective on the inside of a church you've been at for
15:15
Speaker3: 10 years, going through renewal, when did you realize that things need to change at Calvary?
15:22
Speaker3: How did that work? Was it a sudden realization or was it gradual?
15:26
Speaker1: Pastor Chase, before I respond to that, Tammy touched on something that is very close to my heart.
15:32
Speaker1: Just want to make one comment on that. And then the thing is,
15:36
Speaker1: time and again, I think we see pastors for churches where the churches are fortunate
15:43
Speaker1: enough to have pastors for a long term.
15:46
Speaker1: Don't engage in building leaders in that church.
15:50
Speaker1: And when suddenly that pastor leaves, at least in Pastor Chase's case,
15:54
Speaker1: at least there was some training going on, but in most cases,
15:58
Speaker1: there's no training at all.
15:59
Speaker1: And suddenly it's like, okay, what do we do next, right? Like no one knows where
16:03
Speaker1: the records are or any of that stuff.
16:05
Speaker1: And I think that's a sad state. Okay, going to our church, Tammy, like...
16:12
Speaker1: In the last 10 years, we had four pastors at least.
16:16
Speaker1: Okay. And every time somebody leaves, it's kind of like it has a huge impact,
16:21
Speaker1: right? And almost every single one of us, I mean, every single one of those
16:26
Speaker1: pastors kind of almost left suddenly.
16:29
Speaker1: And for us, it's kind of interesting because we, what I've observed with Calvary
16:36
Speaker1: is we reach out to GCF for help almost immediately. immediately,
16:40
Speaker1: I think, the same Sunday or the moment we hear the news.
16:43
Speaker1: And we've been fortunate to actually receive that support to,
16:47
Speaker1: at least in the last 10 years that I've seen, right, we've constantly received support from GCA.
16:53
Speaker1: But the thing is, how come we are in this critical situation all the time, right?
16:58
Speaker1: And so that's the piece that we started kind of examining ourselves and kind
17:03
Speaker1: of started thinking, hey, what can we be doing differently?
17:08
Speaker1: What should change here, right? So I would say it's a gradual realization because when we join
17:16
Speaker1: our church with around, let's say, 50 people or so, but then every time a pastor
17:21
Speaker1: leaves, it keeps dropping significantly.
17:25
Speaker1: Not so much for the last two pastors, but that's not good news.
17:29
Speaker1: It's simply because we are almost at the core of the church that loves the church.
17:33
Speaker1: So it doesn't have that much impact on the church. But the truth is,
17:37
Speaker1: we are down to the core of the church.
17:40
Speaker1: Yeah.
17:41
Speaker2: And, you know, at that moment, when you guys reach those places,
17:46
Speaker2: that place of realizing something needs to change can lead a church to either a place of paralysis,
17:56
Speaker2: A very, very common thing, or sort of sheltering in, turning inward, siloing, as we call it.
18:03
Speaker2: You either get frozen or you turn very, very inward. We see churches do this
18:08
Speaker2: all the way down to where they've got two, three people left,
18:12
Speaker2: and they've got completely bent inward upon themselves.
18:16
Speaker2: Other churches will try to just throw a giant jump ball up in the air.
18:19
Speaker2: They don't like, we don't know what's going to happen. You know,
18:21
Speaker2: sort of like the act of wisdom is to throw everything to the wind and see if
18:26
Speaker2: someone, some rescuer will come in and save them.
18:30
Speaker2: None of those are particularly great strategies, by the way.
18:33
Speaker2: And they're not ones that we actively encourage for church renewal.
18:38
Speaker2: And so just about six years ago, GCA created a strategic process of renewal that we now call Renew.
18:47
Speaker2: And I think I was part of the early conversations with both of you about whether
18:53
Speaker2: or not Renew might be a good fit for your particular church.
18:58
Speaker2: And you guys had a series of conversations with us, informal and formal presentations
19:06
Speaker2: about what this might look like.
19:09
Speaker2: We want to ask you guys today, as church members, and you could be honest,
19:14
Speaker2: What was your immediate reaction when you began really,
19:20
Speaker2: maybe not just the first time you heard about Renew, but as you began to think
19:25
Speaker2: about whether or not Renew was a good fit for your church,
19:30
Speaker2: what was your immediate instinct? Was it was it hope?
19:34
Speaker2: Was it fear? Was it skepticism?
19:38
Speaker2: Maybe a sense of relief, maybe a mixture of all of those. Or you just said that
19:43
Speaker2: bald guy is very confusing and I don't understand a single word he just said.
19:49
Speaker2: But I'll tolerate him for yet another conversation. Let's start with you, Samuel.
19:54
Speaker2: What was that like for you?
19:56
Speaker1: So, just taking a step back, right, I've looked, or rather, let me put it this
20:03
Speaker1: way, right, like, I've had multiple interactions in the past with Dr.
20:08
Speaker1: Mike Stewart, so much so that to me, GCA is Dr. Mike Stewart.
20:14
Speaker1: Okay later of course i learned a lot more after this gcdi training all this
20:18
Speaker1: a lot more to gca right but those interactions of course it's almost like every
20:25
Speaker1: interaction with dr mike stewart it either means
20:28
Speaker1: i'm the troublemaker or there is some serious trouble
20:33
Speaker1: and which one is true it depends on who you talk to right so so dr mike has over the years
20:42
Speaker1: Has been this pillar of support and encouragement.
20:46
Speaker1: And in one of the most vulnerable times spiritually in my life,
20:51
Speaker1: he just started praying because, wow,
20:55
Speaker1: I don't know how I would react the way I was breaking down, but he just started
21:00
Speaker1: praying. He just started encouraging. He just started giving me wisdom on what
21:04
Speaker1: to do next and how to go about it and all that.
21:08
Speaker1: So to me personally, when Dr. Mike suggested, hey, your church needs to take
21:13
Speaker1: a look at this venue, right?
21:15
Speaker1: There's no further question or things like, okay, is this right or something, right?
21:21
Speaker1: Because I knew we needed help. And I knew by experience that there's a lot of
21:27
Speaker1: wisdom that is coming from this, from Dr. Mike and GCA.
21:31
Speaker1: And that is true for the church, too. In general, like, I mean,
21:34
Speaker1: there are maybe, like in every church, I think there would be one or two who disagree, right?
21:40
Speaker1: But in general, the church has had a really good experience with GCA.
21:44
Speaker1: I mean, just looking at the 10 years of support that we got from GCA just when I'm here, right?
21:51
Speaker1: So given all of that for Calvary, yeah, our initial response was that hopeful
21:59
Speaker1: and yes, there are options that we can look at that are different that probably would help us.
22:06
Speaker1: Even though we did not like being told your church is dying.
22:11
Speaker1: And you can cut the talk faster, Chase.
22:14
Speaker3: No, I think that's very valid. Nobody likes to hear that.
22:19
Speaker2: Yeah, as I recall, Samuel, in that interaction, there was a dislike for the
22:25
Speaker2: fact that I compared you to
22:27
Speaker2: a prominent cyclist who had the appearance of great physical health,
22:34
Speaker2: but was actually cancer ridden.
22:37
Speaker2: And that was not an analogy that was well received by all the congregants.
22:47
Speaker2: So Tammy how did you guys feel at Oak Grove how did you feel you are there you're a leader
22:55
Speaker2: the pastor's gone as you described and now you guys are trying to figure out
23:00
Speaker2: something and you you had started actually
23:04
Speaker2: the beginning of a pastor search process as I recall and you're trying to figure
23:08
Speaker2: out what your next steps are so what's your immediate reaction are you are you
23:12
Speaker2: there when you hear about Renew?
23:13
Speaker2: Are you skeptical? Are you like curious?
23:17
Speaker2: You're like, no, we don't really need help. Or what were your thoughts?
23:23
Speaker0: So at the point that the pastor left, I was a couple of months away from leaving
23:28
Speaker0: a job that I had been in for 24 years.
23:30
Speaker0: And so I knew my life was changing. And that's when they asked me to step up
23:35
Speaker0: and participate in helping the church.
23:37
Speaker0: And to be honest, I don't know how to search for a pastor. I've never searched
23:42
Speaker0: for a pastor. I've never thought about it, right?
23:44
Speaker0: So when the deacon brought forward this concept of the Renew program,
23:48
Speaker0: I was just curious. Like, what is this? What is it all about?
23:51
Speaker0: And honestly, I didn't really even know what GCA was.
23:54
Speaker0: Like, I just really did not know. I wasn't paying attention.
23:57
Speaker0: So all of a sudden now I had to pay attention. I had to start listening.
24:01
Speaker0: The irony of all ironies is that The more I became convinced we needed to do
24:05
Speaker0: this, the more some of the people that have been around a long time were not
24:10
Speaker0: convinced or becoming less convinced.
24:13
Speaker0: And I think because they started realizing they were going to have to start
24:15
Speaker0: giving up certain types of control that they didn't want to give up.
24:18
Speaker0: So and I think as you remember, Pastor Chris, we had people who were like,
24:23
Speaker0: who's the GCA and why are they coming in and telling us what to do?
24:26
Speaker0: So we had to do a lot of education for people in our church.
24:30
Speaker0: We had church members leave. And we I mean, there was a lot of turbulence kind
24:35
Speaker0: of going through getting to actually.
24:38
Speaker0: Sorry, let me back up a second. People stuck around while we were going through
24:41
Speaker0: what I call the initial part of the process where we were trying to decide whether
24:44
Speaker0: we were going to do like a replant or just hire, you know, a bi-vocational pastor, all that.
24:49
Speaker0: So during that year, people were stuck around, lots of discussions,
24:54
Speaker0: lots of, you know, we did a lot of, you know, information gathering and thinking
24:58
Speaker0: about the health of the church.
24:59
Speaker0: But then once we made a decision to do the replant process, that's where we
25:04
Speaker0: had a lot of dissension and certain people left the church.
25:08
Speaker0: But I don't regret, I have,
25:11
Speaker0: no idea how to hire a pastor or honestly, what's this?
25:15
Speaker0: I never took any classes on this stuff. So I wanted help. And after I got to
25:20
Speaker0: know Pastor Chris and I better understood the process, I was like,
25:23
Speaker0: I mean, I just think it was the right thing to do. And I still think it's the right thing to do.
25:28
Speaker0: We're not out of the woods yet. We got a lot of work to do, but I just like,
25:33
Speaker0: you know, otherwise it'd be like running around the dark.
25:35
Speaker0: And we put together a pastor profile, Well, not because we were trying to circumvent
25:41
Speaker0: or run around the process. I actually thought as part of the renew process, I misunderstood.
25:46
Speaker0: I thought that we would need that for the initial part of the renew process.
25:51
Speaker0: And you had to clarify that, no, during this initial part of the process,
25:55
Speaker0: there is no pastor search. And I was like, oh, I just didn't understand.
25:59
Speaker0: I just didn't understand.
26:01
Speaker0: And then unfortunately, because I put together a profile, people got upset.
26:05
Speaker0: They did get upset about that because they felt like, hey, we were getting ready
26:08
Speaker0: to start looking for a pastor and now you're saying we can't look for anybody?
26:11
Speaker0: Why is that? You know, and so that was kind of a little bit my kind of faux
26:15
Speaker0: pas in the process, not understanding how the process worked.
26:19
Speaker2: Well, right. And that was, yeah, and that was good for us to make sure we always
26:25
Speaker2: want to be clarifying that because I think sometimes people think of Renew as
26:31
Speaker2: sort of just like an enhanced pastor search process. Right.
26:34
Speaker2: And while we do want to get to the place of helping assist with a pastor search,
26:41
Speaker2: The goal of our renewed discovery phase, as we call it, is to really help the
26:46
Speaker2: church know themselves before they go looking for the pastor.
26:50
Speaker2: Think of it like working. You know, I sometimes have used the analogy,
26:54
Speaker2: hey, before you start wanting to go out there and finding that perfect spouse,
26:59
Speaker2: take a look at who you are really, really well. And so you understand yourself.
27:05
Speaker2: So you know what the kind of person you actually need to be with.
27:08
Speaker2: Pastor Chase, pick up the story from here.
27:11
Speaker3: Yeah. So let's go over back over to you, Samuel.
27:14
Speaker3: Kind of tell us how long this Renew process has been going on for Calvary and
27:21
Speaker3: tell us where you guys are in the process. What is the water that's under the bridge?
27:27
Speaker3: What are you looking forward to in the future at this point?
27:31
Speaker1: It's almost been a year now since we started on this journey and we just signed the
27:39
Speaker1: second phase of Renew, which is the actual work phase, I would say,
27:43
Speaker1: versus so far what we've been doing is investigating and discovery and self-analysis and so on.
27:54
Speaker1: I think some of the things that I feel have changed, this I'm kind of attributing
28:01
Speaker1: to Renew, right, is take, for example, a simple thing like pulpit supply.
28:07
Speaker1: The person who manages the pulpit supply for us is just surprising that we didn't
28:11
Speaker1: call 911 yet because sometimes it's Sunday morning.
28:16
Speaker1: That has changed so much. Abundance of, you know, help as far as pulpit supply is concerned, right?
28:24
Speaker1: And then in terms of, you know, just being able to kind of recognize who we
28:29
Speaker1: are at, and some of that was not very surprising.
28:33
Speaker1: But some of that, like when we look closer, like for example,
28:37
Speaker1: things like discipleship, while it happens kind of organically in the church,
28:41
Speaker1: it's not a systematic thing.
28:43
Speaker1: Being able to see those, you know, where the gaps are, where we could improve,
28:49
Speaker1: has been a really good journey so far. Now, I think, I mean,
28:52
Speaker1: we're kind of done with the diagnosis, I guess, in some ways.
28:56
Speaker1: There's probably more to go, like in future.
28:59
Speaker1: But we are at a phase where we are starting to kind of start looking at,
29:03
Speaker1: like, how do we fix this and where do we go from here?
29:07
Speaker3: So, Tammy, same question to you. Where are you guys at Oak Grove in the process?
29:13
Speaker3: What's happened so far and what are you looking forward to in the very near future?
29:18
Speaker0: So it actually sounds like we're almost identical spot that Samuel and his church
29:23
Speaker0: are in, in that we went through about a year long discovery.
29:26
Speaker0: And we signed the agreement that we're going to do a replant process and we have our new board.
29:32
Speaker0: We've had one board meeting and we're starting to try to get things in place.
29:36
Speaker0: During the discovery process, we did put together some of the documents that
29:39
Speaker0: we're going to need for kickstarting a pastor search.
29:44
Speaker0: We also are like this week, I'll be meeting with our finance people.
29:50
Speaker0: We have external finance people because we've been having a really hard time like getting the data
29:54
Speaker0: in a way that makes like that's easy to understand and has as clear as clear
29:58
Speaker0: it's not it's not that the information is not there it's just not bucketed in
30:01
Speaker0: a way that's easily digestible so i'm need to with them so we're.
30:05
Speaker0: We're just kind of doing all the blocking and tackling stuff like that we,
30:09
Speaker0: thought we might have a path toward considering an interim pastor but i think
30:14
Speaker0: right now pastor chris kreskin if i'm wrong right now that's that path has kind
30:19
Speaker0: of i don't want to say dried up but we're, we don't have anybody yet that we're considering.
30:23
Speaker0: So we would, we would consider having an interim
30:26
Speaker0: pastor, but with very clear that it's interim, because I think that was one
30:30
Speaker0: of the problems too, is that several times we brought people in as interim pastors
30:34
Speaker0: or in the past history, and then they made them full-time pastors,
30:37
Speaker0: but they weren't really people who were going to lead the church, right?
30:40
Speaker0: They, they were people that liked to preach, but they, and they might've even
30:43
Speaker0: liked to go to, you know, a hospital to visit with people, but they weren't
30:46
Speaker0: really about strategizing and how to kind of grow the church.
30:49
Speaker0: And I don't think this was mentioned, on my church, but it was very much like Samuel's in that
30:54
Speaker0: you know there was a point where the church had over 200 congregants had a youth ministry
30:59
Speaker0: did all those things we don't have any of that now like we are a tiny tiny church
31:03
Speaker0: right so so we all know there's we have a nice piece of land and we know we
31:07
Speaker0: have potential to be more and so
31:10
Speaker0: i'm really hoping that now that we've got this board in place and we're kind
31:13
Speaker0: of starting to methodically try to go through things and it's going to take
31:17
Speaker0: a while that we'll get on a path to you know, doing things better.
31:21
Speaker0: The other thing that I like about the renewed process is that,
31:24
Speaker0: and Pastor Chris and I have talked about this, is that, you know,
31:26
Speaker0: in the past we had a board of trustees, but to be honest, the way the board
31:29
Speaker0: of trustees was treated was like a rubber stamp, not really directing the church.
31:33
Speaker0: And I feel like with this particular board, that I think it's going to be helpful
31:39
Speaker0: to drive that so that when we get a good pastor in, I think it's going to function
31:44
Speaker0: better. I think it's going to work better.
31:46
Speaker3: Yeah, that's great. You know, the thing about humans, I guess one of our big
31:50
Speaker3: weaknesses, and I know this is personally a weakness of myself, is I want a quick fix.
31:56
Speaker3: Even for a complex problem, I want a quick fix.
32:00
Speaker3: And the fact of the matter is the church is a complex organism and it's filled
32:06
Speaker3: with multiple people and quick fixes are generally,
32:11
Speaker3: you know, you might get a flash in the pan kind of result that might encourage
32:15
Speaker3: everybody for a week or two, but I think we're all learning in this process.
32:19
Speaker3: And I've learned it before and seeing church health take a long time,
32:24
Speaker3: that quick fixes probably are not going to put you where you need to be a year,
32:29
Speaker3: five years or 10 years down the road.
32:31
Speaker3: So I appreciate this process that you guys are going through,
32:34
Speaker3: even though I'm from the outside looking in, because it's designed to build
32:39
Speaker3: not a quick month turnaround result. It's designed to put a church
32:46
Speaker3: on the right track for decades and maybe even centuries.
32:50
Speaker2: Yeah, and that is one of our big goals. But we start that journey in an odd
32:56
Speaker2: place, and both of you guys might remember this, that
32:59
Speaker2: early on after we walked through a couple of basic principles,
33:02
Speaker2: we really invite you guys to start looking backwards at
33:07
Speaker2: your church, to look at what has been, what we call the remember phase of the
33:13
Speaker2: discovery process, right?
33:15
Speaker2: We're not just looking at even immediately who you are, but what has come before,
33:19
Speaker2: because all churches have a spiritual and pragmatic DNA.
33:26
Speaker2: We've got a journey that has come before us.
33:30
Speaker2: We were inviting you guys to begin looking back and to say, hey,
33:34
Speaker2: what were the good things that have happened here that should be preserved?
33:40
Speaker2: And then what were some of the ugly parts of your story?
33:44
Speaker2: You remember we did the timeline work, and we did work through those timeline pieces
33:52
Speaker2: on a curve, and you guys were identifying places and different significant events
33:57
Speaker2: there because you were looking at, hey, what are the good things that happened
34:00
Speaker2: that we want to celebrate that God has done?
34:02
Speaker2: And then what perhaps were some of the things that we looked back and realized
34:07
Speaker2: those were either moments of brokenness or sin or
34:12
Speaker2: you know, an attack from the evil one, things like that. So I'm curious,
34:16
Speaker2: we'll start with you, Tammy, this time. So what did looking backward teach you
34:21
Speaker2: about Oak Grove, what that should be preserved?
34:26
Speaker2: And you've alluded maybe to some of that. And then what perhaps you look back
34:30
Speaker2: at and you go, yeah, we shouldn't do that again.
34:32
Speaker0: So again, since I've only been at the church less since, I guess,
34:36
Speaker0: around six years, I didn't really know the full history. So,
34:39
Speaker0: and we have people who've been at the church for like over 40 years still at the church.
34:44
Speaker0: So it was very interesting to go through this process so that we could hear what the history was,
34:50
Speaker0: And it actually kind of broke my heart a little bit to hear that the church
34:53
Speaker0: had been over 200 people, that they had a children's ministry,
34:56
Speaker0: and that now we were where we were. I was like, what happened?
35:00
Speaker0: Like, you know, what happened, right?
35:01
Speaker0: So I was actually grateful that we did that. And then, and I mean,
35:05
Speaker0: the things, like I said earlier, that I, you know, that I feel like we obviously
35:09
Speaker0: want to keep going is that just the friendliness, the care, the
35:14
Speaker0: openness we are to people, but that we do all want the gospel to be preached that we we
35:20
Speaker0: we want to learn we want to know god we want to draw closer to god
35:24
Speaker0: and that we want to be able to you know we do want fellowship and you know to
35:29
Speaker0: be able to do things together but there's just a lot of other things about how
35:33
Speaker0: things got done you know there were attempts at mergers and stuff like that that
35:37
Speaker0: just really created so much disruption and not being thoughtful about the fact
35:42
Speaker0: that pastors come and go right that we need to kind of have thoughts,
35:45
Speaker0: like you need to be growing up the next group anyways.
35:49
Speaker2: Samuel, how about you guys at Calvary? As you guys began the journey of looking
35:54
Speaker2: backwards, what did that teach you guys about what you felt should be preserved?
36:01
Speaker2: And what were some of those things that you identified and said,
36:03
Speaker2: hey, we realized that this is not a pattern or a type of decision or the kind
36:11
Speaker2: of thing we want to continue with going forward?
36:14
Speaker1: So, since we've been only here a decade now, right? I can actually say decade and not ten years.
36:21
Speaker1: It was good to actually learn the history, which we never thought of before, as part of this process.
36:28
Speaker1: And one of the things that was really encouraging was in a time of financial
36:33
Speaker1: difficulty, I think Calvary made the decision to basically say,
36:37
Speaker1: hey, you know what, we're going to prioritize missions above everything else.
36:40
Speaker1: And that continues to be the trend today. And to me, I think there are parts
36:47
Speaker1: to Calvary, this culture as part of the program with Renewed,
36:51
Speaker1: as we were going through different surveys.
36:54
Speaker1: And these surveys are like, you know, we have some folks have been here for
36:58
Speaker1: like, you know, decades.
37:01
Speaker1: And then there are some folks who have been here just a few years,
37:04
Speaker1: right? Like even younger than us in terms of how long they stayed at Calvary.
37:09
Speaker1: But across the board, some of the things from a culture point of view in terms
37:14
Speaker1: of being loving towards each other and things like that really came through.
37:19
Speaker1: And I think we would love to preserve those.
37:23
Speaker1: On the other hand, I don't know whether I want to call it as,
37:26
Speaker1: you know, things that we don't want to preserve versus things that we want to change.
37:30
Speaker1: Because some of the things are like, I think we are, I don't know whether the
37:36
Speaker1: term is creatures of habit or something. So we do something and we just continue
37:40
Speaker1: doing it, whether not considering, hey, is this still relevant?
37:45
Speaker1: Is this still something that we want to be involved in?
37:48
Speaker1: Do we have the resources to actually do this? Right.
37:53
Speaker1: And then worry that it's not being done or whatever, right?
37:57
Speaker1: So those kind of things are some things that, especially even last Sunday during
38:03
Speaker1: the year, going through experiencing God's work and we were discussing God's will.
38:09
Speaker1: And that was one of the things that came out. Like, you know,
38:12
Speaker1: we should be praying for God's will
38:14
Speaker1: in every single aspect and then decide whether we want to do it, right?
38:19
Speaker1: And even more concretely, some of the things that we know for sure have not
38:26
Speaker1: worked out is how we went about with the pastor search and how
38:32
Speaker1: when we have trouble, it is like
38:34
Speaker1: really one of the things that comes up is where is the accountability?
38:39
Speaker1: And we need to reach out of the church, we need to reach out to GCA and other
38:45
Speaker1: folks to kind of figure that piece out because there's nothing in the church policies
38:53
Speaker1: that has a solid accountability embedded within it.
38:57
Speaker1: So there are things like that, which thanks to the discovery phase of Renew,
39:02
Speaker1: these were some of the things that came up and also we've experienced it And
39:07
Speaker1: those are some things that we absolutely need to change and we need to be educated.
39:11
Speaker1: Right now, these are all ignorant mistakes.
39:14
Speaker1: We want to learn and know how we can do things differently and better.
39:19
Speaker2: I remember rather awkward, I think that's probably a fair word,
39:23
Speaker2: an awkward hallway conversation with a number of Calvary leaders as we were
39:29
Speaker2: discussing the past pastoral history.
39:33
Speaker2: And so I kind of rather bluntly asked this question. I said,
39:38
Speaker2: and how has the last four pastor searches turned out for you?
39:43
Speaker2: And there was a lot of looking down at the ground and looking around because
39:49
Speaker2: it hadn't gone well relationally.
39:53
Speaker2: It's not a disparagement of those individual men. I don't want anyone to hear that.
39:59
Speaker2: But the connections, the accountability, the healthy relational dynamics that
40:03
Speaker2: Samuel was talking about had just not been there.
40:06
Speaker2: Which, by the way, as part of our renew process, when we bring you to the end
40:11
Speaker2: of your pastor search process through this next phase, as you look for your
40:15
Speaker2: replanner or your revitalizer,
40:17
Speaker2: we will help the church develop a pastoral covenant that provides accountability
40:23
Speaker2: and oversight and helps build that into your structure.
40:27
Speaker2: And then we help you practice it before we just walk away as well.
40:31
Speaker2: So that's part of that process.
40:33
Speaker3: And with that, I think we've hit a good place to take a break on our main interview
40:38
Speaker3: and transition to some soda drinking. Pastor Christopher, you ready?
40:44
Speaker2: Well, Pastor Chase, I am very excited about our next soda from Vietnam.
40:50
Speaker2: From Vietnam. It's got some...
40:53
Speaker2: Are you okay? You seem a little down. You love soda tastings.
40:59
Speaker3: Well, look, I guess I'll just be transparent and vulnerable because that's a
41:03
Speaker3: big part of what the Every Church Flourishing podcast is about.
41:07
Speaker3: I'll let our listeners know that during our recording today, and here's how it works.
41:13
Speaker3: We do our soda reviews in clumps. We do a few of them at a time.
41:17
Speaker2: Clumps is a good word for it.
41:18
Speaker3: Yeah. I don't know if that's a trade secret or not, but we were in between sodas
41:24
Speaker3: and I went out of my office, the recording studio, and I saw my wife for the
41:29
Speaker3: first time today and she said, hi, what are you wearing?
41:33
Speaker3: And so, yeah, I know.
41:36
Speaker3: Dude, what are you wearing? What are you wearing?
41:39
Speaker2: Chase, what are you wearing? I...
41:41
Speaker2: We only see you from the waist up,
41:43
Speaker3: But I'm concerned. Apparently not the right thing. I'm wearing khaki linen pants
41:49
Speaker3: and a black vest and a black t-shirt. I thought it looked fine.
41:53
Speaker3: But here's the thing, Pastor Christopher.
41:56
Speaker3: I do not claim to know fashion very well as evidenced by what just happened.
42:02
Speaker3: And it would be really, I don't know if hypocritical is the right word,
42:07
Speaker3: but it would be really problematic if this show reviewed clothes and outfits
42:12
Speaker3: because that's not my jam. I'm going to tell you something I know.
42:15
Speaker3: I know cereal and I know soda. And so if you like soda, you're in the right
42:20
Speaker3: place for some expert opinions on what we have today, which,
42:27
Speaker3: Pastor Christopher, I don't know Vietnamese also or fashion,
42:30
Speaker3: but this is apparently Saxe Chong Dong Soda.
42:36
Speaker3: And what can you tell us about that?
42:38
Speaker2: Well, this was famously called Tiger Soda.
42:43
Speaker3: Oh, I like that.
42:44
Speaker2: Tiger Soda. It was from the French BGI group who built the Usain Belgique beverage
42:52
Speaker2: plant in 1952 in Vietnam.
42:56
Speaker2: So this beverage dates back to 1952 and it is Vietnam's take on a sarsaparilla soda.
43:04
Speaker2: So something similar to American root beer, but it's supposed to have its own
43:11
Speaker2: herbal character, specifically maybe some cinnamon and anise.
43:17
Speaker3: I love cinnamon and anise, and I love sarsaparilla.
43:21
Speaker3: And we actually have a friend of the podcast, Amy Zubiotti, who sent us a case
43:25
Speaker3: of sarsaparilla soda to review on an upcoming episode.
43:29
Speaker3: And I need to get some of that to you because it looks amazing,
43:32
Speaker3: it looks delicious, but strangely enough our sarsaparilla adventures are going to begin
43:39
Speaker3: with a Vietnamese beverage that says, Som Ye Kung Sa Chi at the top of it.
43:45
Speaker3: And I hope it doesn't just say, let's go to war Vietnam or anything like that.
43:49
Speaker2: No, no, let's not do that. We don't know that. I am concerned a little bit.
43:56
Speaker2: I have not seen the words hotline put on the back of a soda can before. Whoa.
44:04
Speaker2: And the word hotline is on here, including a phone number.
44:08
Speaker2: And that concerns me just a little bit, Pastor Chase, because I don't know that
44:15
Speaker2: after I drink this, I want to have to call a hotline.
44:19
Speaker3: That's a good, good catch. And that's a little 1-900 number.
44:26
Speaker3: I don't think we're supposed to call those. Right.
44:29
Speaker2: Not in America.
44:30
Speaker3: Yeah. If I could read these ingredients, I would know if we were in danger.
44:35
Speaker3: But unfortunately, they're in quantum physics microscopic font in my old person
44:41
Speaker3: eyes just have no idea. So
44:43
Speaker3: This could contain, you know, all sorts of sodium penthalate,
44:49
Speaker3: hexalate, poison, arsenic, chemlock, and we would know it and we will have to call the hotline.
44:56
Speaker3: And I don't think that's a free hotline from America.
44:59
Speaker2: Probably not. However, however, I will point out that this particular soda won
45:06
Speaker2: the International Taste Institute Superior Taste Award in Brussels,
45:12
Speaker2: Belgium in 2024, Pastor Chase. 2024.
45:16
Speaker3: Well, if the International Taste Institute says it's good, you know it's going to be great.
45:22
Speaker2: And there's a happy family riding the bottle.
45:25
Speaker3: I love that picture. It's so cool.
45:28
Speaker2: Do you think most people, like when they leave church, this describes how they feel?
45:36
Speaker2: How many families do you see leaving church like this on a Sunday morning,
45:43
Speaker2: super excited to ride their soda bottle away?
45:49
Speaker3: It's pretty rare, but I will say you've been pastoring for a long time, Pastor Christopher.
45:54
Speaker3: I know that one of the most difficult times for families is going to church on Sunday morning.
46:00
Speaker3: I hear of more stress and difficulties. and spiritual warfare.
46:06
Speaker3: Yeah, dude, it's a tough time.
46:08
Speaker2: It's legit.
46:09
Speaker3: Right. Yeah.
46:10
Speaker2: I agree.
46:11
Speaker3: These people are not heading to church, we can tell by the picture.
46:15
Speaker2: Or they're heading home from church.
46:16
Speaker3: Maybe they're like, whoa, that was a terrible sermon, but we're free now. Free at last.
46:21
Speaker2: Or they heard the gospel well presented and were well encouraged, Pastor Chase.
46:26
Speaker3: That's a far better interpretation than mine. Yeah.
46:31
Speaker2: All right.
46:31
Speaker3: They're rejoicing in their salvation.
46:33
Speaker2: I think we should drink some Saxe.
46:37
Speaker1: Oh, okay.
46:38
Speaker2: You know. PG rating?
46:39
Speaker3: Drink some Saxe. That sounds a little- Drink some Saxe. Suspicious, but I'm down.
46:44
Speaker2: All right, let's do it.
46:45
Speaker3: Whoa, smell it. It's a great smell. It's a weird smell, but it's great smell.
46:52
Speaker2: Oh, I like that.
46:54
Speaker3: I do too. I love it. It's like real root beer smell.
46:58
Speaker2: This is very interesting. Liporish. Because this is like got a 1950s to 1970s kind of smell to it.
47:07
Speaker3: Yeah.
47:09
Speaker2: I feel like this is like a classic right here. Like we're drinking.
47:12
Speaker2: This was once like one of the most dominant sodas in Vietnam.
47:17
Speaker2: And they had a competitor. Competitor.
47:19
Speaker2: This was originally the tiger version. And apparently their rival was the deer.
47:25
Speaker3: Well, the tiger won out very clearly. Look, I could totally see Butch Cassidy
47:30
Speaker3: and his boy, the Sundance kid, going into a bar in El Paso whenever they lived.
47:36
Speaker3: If they lived, are they real people?
47:38
Speaker2: Yes, they were.
47:39
Speaker3: Okay. I can see them ordering this.
47:44
Speaker2: They looked exactly like Paul Newman and Robert Redford,
47:46
Speaker3: By the way. Absolutely. They would have had to. They did.
47:49
Speaker2: They did.
47:50
Speaker3: Yeah. Okay. Well, let's give it a shot.
47:52
Speaker2: Okay, I'm going to say on my first taste, while you're still pouring,
47:58
Speaker2: this is very complex and not in a bad way.
48:02
Speaker2: I taste the root beer, but I'm also definitely getting some flavors that are
48:07
Speaker2: not typically in an American root beer.
48:09
Speaker3: Oh, yeah.
48:10
Speaker2: I'm getting some cinnamon. I'm getting that anise flavor that we were talking
48:15
Speaker2: about, that sort of licorice flavor for those of you. Right, yeah.
48:19
Speaker3: By the way, I looked up Butch Cassidy. He does not look anything like I thought
48:23
Speaker3: he would. Looks like a blonde haired frat guy.
48:27
Speaker2: So he looked like Robert Redford.
48:28
Speaker3: A little bit. I mean, Robert Redford's obviously handsome, but Robert Leroy
48:33
Speaker3: Parker, better known as Butch Cassidy.
48:36
Speaker2: I can't remember in that film with that fantastic soundtrack from B.J.
48:41
Speaker2: Thomas. Raindrops keep falling on my head.
48:45
Speaker2: Yep. The number one hit that year, if I recall correctly, or one of the top hits of the year.
48:50
Speaker2: We're dating ourselves here by our knowledge. Yeah.
48:53
Speaker2: But I can't remember, was it Newman or Redford that played Butch?
48:58
Speaker2: And which one played Butch? Which one played Sundance? I don't know that.
49:02
Speaker3: That's a great question. And I don't know. But I do know that growing up,
49:07
Speaker3: Butch Cassidy was a member of the LBS church. How about that?
49:11
Speaker2: I did not know that.
49:13
Speaker3: Neither. Neither member of the wild bunch in the old West.
49:17
Speaker3: This beverage really takes me back to my days riding in the Beaver,
49:23
Speaker3: Utah territory with my guy, Robert Leroy Parker.
49:28
Speaker2: I don't know that it takes you back that far, but I could definitely see myself
49:34
Speaker2: sitting in a cafe in Saigon in 19...
49:40
Speaker2: 55 and pouring this over a glass of ice and just really enjoying it, Pastor Chase.
49:48
Speaker2: I, I, and, and in 2026, if I were to go to Saigon and pass by this in a cooler
49:57
Speaker2: and I'm looking for that refreshing beverage to
50:03
Speaker2: sort of hold off the humidity, I think I would reach for some Sashi.
50:08
Speaker3: I totally would. I would...
50:11
Speaker3: In my earlier days as a cattle rustler out in the West, I would turn to this
50:18
Speaker3: beverage every hour or two to refresh my
50:24
Speaker3: thirst and body and equip me to rustle some more cattle.
50:30
Speaker2: I have no idea why we are making that analogy, but I will say that I don't think
50:38
Speaker2: I need to call the hotline.
50:40
Speaker3: No, no, I think I'm good. I'm good.
50:43
Speaker2: I think this is not needed here on this can, unless it's for us just to say,
50:51
Speaker2: hey, we really enjoy this. This is very nice. This is very, it's very refreshing.
50:56
Speaker2: It's not heavy on the tongue. There's no aftertaste.
51:00
Speaker2: So if you are looking for something very original, unique, this Sashi Soda from Vietnam, I,
51:10
Speaker2: hey, I'm just going to go ahead and give this, I'm going to give it a 4.25 Spurge.
51:15
Speaker3: Oh, that's strong. Wow.
51:17
Speaker2: Yeah. I'm really enjoying this.
51:19
Speaker3: Yeah, this is good. If you are a former cattle wrestler like me or contemplating
51:25
Speaker3: a future in cattle wrestling, The thing about this drink is it puts you in the mood to
51:31
Speaker3: have a gunfight at the OK Corral or to rustle some cattle or ride a horse or
51:37
Speaker3: to saddle up to a small group Bible study and get some coffee.
51:42
Speaker3: I'm not going to say it puts you in the mood to saddle up to a bar because this
51:46
Speaker3: is a Baptist Christian podcast. But, man, this really makes me want to go watch
51:51
Speaker3: Tombstone or something like that.
51:53
Speaker3: This is a good throwback. I'm going to give four Spurgeons out of five.
51:56
Speaker3: Wow. Okay. I appreciate the nostalgia and the complexities of the taste.
52:02
Speaker2: Nice.
52:03
Speaker3: Saddle up.
52:04
Speaker2: Let's go.
52:07
Speaker3: All right, before we head out to do some cattle wrestling, I do want to point
52:11
Speaker3: you to our website, gcasbc.org.
52:16
Speaker3: And I want to give a shout out to all the new subscribers to the podcast that
52:21
Speaker3: we met this week at the annual GCA Missions Conference, which was in Seaside,
52:27
Speaker3: California, and it was awesome.
52:30
Speaker3: I want to ask you guys to pray for the upcoming Great Commission Association
52:35
Speaker3: Romania mission trip, which is at the end of this month, October 29th through November 11th.
52:42
Speaker3: Previous guests, Dr. Kathy Smith and Dr.
52:46
Speaker3: Chris Smith will be going, as well as several other GCA pastors.
52:51
Speaker3: Pray for them. Pray for a great trip. and we will be back next week with more
52:56
Speaker3: discussion about church renewal and church revitalization from the inside.
53:01
Speaker3: Thanks for listening. Good day to you and God's