Latest / The Curve / RTC80: Let’s get ethical: Putting your money where your morals are.

Transcript

RTC80: Let’s get ethical: Putting your money where your morals are. · The Curve

• 0:00
  So, it's world investor week this week, gosh, that was a bit of a tongue twister.
• 0:05
  So we're partnering with the FMA, which is the financial markets authority to talk about
• 0:09
  investing, and in particular, investing in a way that aligns with your values.
• 0:12
  This has been something that we have always been passionate about, investing is just like
• 0:16
  how you spend your money as a consumer, it can be a form of activism.
• 0:20
  So if being ethical or looking after a planet is important to you, then you can invest
• 0:24
  through an ethical lens, which is very cool.
• 0:27
  Personal is especially when your values are involved.
• 0:29
  So what your friends or your family value might vary from what you actually value,
• 0:34
  and the same goes when fun providers say the word ethical.
• 0:37
  Well, one actually says ethical might be different from another.
• 0:40
  This is your money, you know?
• 0:42
  You've got to make sure that it's actually matching your values.
• 0:45
  It's not always black and white, which is a frustrating part of ethical investing,
• 0:49
  for always used to be like, it's subjective, it's subjective, and I never really got a
• 0:53
  until now, but it's just the idea that what you think is ethical might not be the same as
• 0:58
  your friends, your mum, your colleagues, things like that.
• 1:01
  So make sure you check your investments and make sure they actually reflect your personal values.
• 1:05
  For more information about the FMA or World Investor Week,
• 1:08
  you can head to the link in our show notes or fma.govt.nz forward slash your values.
• 1:16
  Welcome to Raising the Curth, a podcast designed to teach you everything you need to know
• 1:20
  to be better with your money. And the wise words of Amy Schumer
• 1:24
  were slipping carrots into the brownie recipe.
• 1:27
  I don't really get the saying.
• 1:29
  It's kind of like eating vegetables that actually taste good.
• 1:32
  You know, I'm like, still not wearing it.
• 1:34
  Are you on the script?
• 1:36
  It's basically like saying investing in finance can be boring, but it totally doesn't need to be.
• 1:42
  Okay, okay, so we're making it fun by putting the carrot.
• 1:47
  Okay, the vegetables are just good for you.
• 1:48
  It's the brownie recipe.
• 1:50
  Okay, we got there.
• 1:51
  We got there.
• 1:51
  Okay.
• 1:52
  Okay.
• 1:52
  Well, you've really got a finance, right?
• 1:54
  Yeah, one of us has to.
• 1:56
  This is a show.
• 1:57
  Okay, come and learn alongside me from Vick Harris, ex-fun manager.
• 2:00
  Well, I'm going to ask all the questions that you wish you could.
• 2:04
  And I'm going to be eating all the brownie you wish you could.
• 2:06
  No, it's so not the joke, Vick.
• 2:09
  Okay, just come and talk and learn and laugh with us.
• 2:11
  Because together we really can raise the curve.
• 2:15
  Okay, we have thought quite hard about this podcast episode.
• 2:21
  And when I say we, it has actually been we this time.
• 2:25
  Yes.
• 2:26
  It's world investor week.
• 2:28
  And we're partnering with the FMA, the financial markets authority,
• 2:32
  to the police of a distance.
• 2:34
  So like, the fact that they got in touch and wanted us to do something,
• 2:37
  we were like, okay, come.
• 2:38
  Yeah, yeah.
• 2:38
  That's good.
• 2:39
  That's good.
• 2:40
  Yeah, the big dogs.
• 2:41
  They're the big dogs.
• 2:41
  So yeah.
• 2:43
  The whole point of this episode is to talk about how we can be using our money
• 2:49
  in a way that aligns with our values,
• 2:54
  that we're channeling money into companies that we believe in.
• 2:57
  And it's a conversation about ethical investing, ESG investing, whatever we want to call it.
• 3:03
  But we wanted to take a bit of a different spin.
• 3:06
  Because we have talked about this a lot.
• 3:08
  And it is something close to our hearts in terms of the style of investing.
• 3:13
  And there does need to be a lot of education around it.
• 3:16
  Because it is pretty complex.
• 3:18
  But yeah, we wanted to educate in a different way.
• 3:21
  And that's why we had a lot of back and forth.
• 3:22
  Yeah, we've had so many plans.
• 3:24
  Yeah.
• 3:25
  We were going to do, I really wanted to play the game
• 3:28
  to Truths in a lie.
• 3:30
  I was like, oh, that could do this really fun thing.
• 3:32
  We choose three companies.
• 3:34
  And we say, which two are ethical and which is not, you know?
• 3:37
  Two Truths in a lie.
• 3:38
  And it's like, yeah, we can't play that game.
• 3:40
  Because what is ethical to someone is different to the other.
• 3:44
  So there's no right or wrong.
• 3:45
  And you can't really call a company a liar.
• 3:47
  Because then you'll get like put in jail or lawsuits.
• 3:52
  So we went back and forth as like how we can talk about this.
• 3:56
  And I think what's hard for me when it comes to choosing companies to invest in is
• 4:02
  I mean, I don't have heaps of time to go and spend three hours looking at what does.
• 4:08
  No, it's funny.
• 4:09
  Like the amount of like people that just want a quick win.
• 4:13
  Yeah.
• 4:13
  That is not investing.
• 4:15
  But there's a different story.
• 4:16
  But at the same time, we can't expect people to have all this spare time.
• 4:19
  When you work full time, you've already got a job.
• 4:22
  We don't need to say it very well.
• 4:23
  And there's people that are doing this as their full time job.
• 4:26
  Yeah.
• 4:26
  And they still don't get it right.
• 4:28
  Yeah.
• 4:28
  So Vic used to be for anyone who's new to the curve podcast.
• 4:32
  Hi, Vic.
• 4:32
  Hi, I'm Sylvie.
• 4:35
  Vic used to work as a portfolio manager,
• 4:38
  which is a fancy way of saying she was a professional investor.
• 4:41
  And she worked for various different companies across New Zealand,
• 4:45
  Australia, she worked in London, managing people's money.
• 4:49
  And the most recent, why am I introducing you?
• 4:51
  I'm like, this is great.
• 4:53
  Keep going.
• 4:54
  Do you say it all out, people?
• 4:56
  What a nice ego business.
• 4:58
  So her last job, the last professional investor role that she had,
• 5:01
  was for a company that had a specific fund that was investing money.
• 5:08
  Sustainably.
• 5:09
  Or in inverted commas as a style of investing.
• 5:12
  Yes.
• 5:13
  And so that style of investing has been something that Vic has been doing for a long time
• 5:18
  and kind of pitching to the investing world as if it's this great new trend
• 5:22
  with all these old men being like, I just don't get it.
• 5:25
  And I'm not interested.
• 5:27
  Yeah, no, there was like, there was a lot of pushback,
• 5:31
  but I think slowly, oh, not now.
• 5:34
  Surely, if you're not in that job now, it would be different.
• 5:37
  There's always going to be some ex.
• 5:38
  There's always people that just want to make money.
• 5:40
  They don't really care how.
• 5:41
  And I think the younger generation, millennials, us,
• 5:44
  I mean, we are millennials, Gen Z.
• 5:46
  They're clinging on for dear lives, because they're the ones
• 5:49
  that are going to be living in the world that if it's not looked after
• 5:53
  by these big companies, it's going to be shit.
• 5:55
  So they're the ones that are worried.
• 5:56
  But anyway, I think it's really hard to decipher,
• 6:00
  like we were talking about the two truths one lie.
• 6:01
  It's really hard to figure out as a retail investor,
• 6:04
  which is just going to be still at UNI.
• 6:06
  What is a good company?
• 6:08
  And what is a bad company?
• 6:09
  Because I think UNI would have very different views.
• 6:13
  If we took a company and we're like, well,
• 6:14
  do you think it's good?
• 6:15
  Do you think it's, and how do you define what's good and bad?
• 6:18
  I think there's a whole business idea in this.
• 6:19
  It's almost like a brain hurt.
• 6:21
  Yeah, yeah.
• 6:22
  So we basically, we were sitting down.
• 6:23
  So we worked from this place called SoHoWorks,
• 6:25
  which is a part of SoHoHouse.
• 6:27
  And it's this big giant like co-working space
• 6:29
  where most people don't talk.
• 6:31
  Yeah, it's quite silent.
• 6:33
  But Vic and I, yes, I love it.
• 6:35
  I know, whereas like Hader,
• 6:36
  I'm like, someone give me some stimulation.
• 6:39
  Anyway, Vic comes to walk you over there.
• 6:40
  So excited in the kitchen.
• 6:41
  Oh hi, what are you having for lunch?
• 6:42
  I don't really like any time.
• 6:43
  I walked on the other day and she was just standing in the kitchen
• 6:46
  eating her plum or something.
• 6:47
  I was like, are you waiting for the microwave or what?
• 6:50
  No, I was waiting for the coffee machine.
• 6:52
  Oh, okay.
• 6:53
  I got sick.
• 6:54
  That just turnedly judging me.
• 6:55
  Like, what are you doing?
• 6:57
  And then that other person that was chatting
• 6:59
  by the coffee machine.
• 7:01
  And so just last on the other side of the kitchen.
• 7:03
  I just started to feel embarrassing.
• 7:04
  Like the girl that's like trying to pretend
• 7:06
  she's in on the conversation.
• 7:07
  Well, the person that waves is actually the person behind them.
• 7:09
  And you're like, oh,
• 7:10
  could you just not starve me a personal contact?
• 7:12
  No, I don't.
• 7:13
  Like, when you strolled over to me,
• 7:14
  when I was sitting there looking at our planning
• 7:16
  for this episode,
• 7:17
  and VIX draws over to me,
• 7:18
  and I thought, oh, good.
• 7:19
  Oh, good wedding conversation real life.
• 7:21
  Not just on email to that.
• 7:23
  It makes you go straight past me.
• 7:24
  I need to talk about the episode.
• 7:26
  And I was like, same.
• 7:27
  Because what we had planned was not going to work.
• 7:30
  And the reason it wasn't going to work
• 7:31
  is because we were going to choose a company.
• 7:33
  So I chose Google.
• 7:34
  And we were going to do a deep dive into what's a checklist
• 7:37
  that you can go through when you choose a company.
• 7:39
  And you're like, tick, tick, tick.
• 7:41
  Okay, I want to invest in that
• 7:42
  because I feel like it's friendly,
• 7:44
  ethically friendly, or whatever.
• 7:46
  And I was like, cool, I'm choosing Google.
• 7:48
  And I was like, oh, dear gosh.
• 7:49
  I was like, that is one of the, well,
• 7:51
  it's pretty much the biggest,
• 7:52
  one of the biggest companies in the world.
• 7:53
  Yeah, it's just like, cool.
• 7:54
  Can you pick another one?
• 7:55
  And I was like, maybe one of the most simple
• 7:57
  that doesn't have operations
• 7:58
  in a million different countries
• 8:00
  and a million different divisions.
• 8:01
  And I replied and I go, well, look,
• 8:03
  not to be devil's advocate here,
• 8:04
  but if you can't be bothered looking into this,
• 8:07
  no one else is going to either.
• 8:08
  Yeah, yeah.
• 8:08
  And I was like, good point.
• 8:10
  So we'd do anything the whole thing.
• 8:11
  Basically, what we're getting to is
• 8:13
  we've come up with a different way to talk about it.
• 8:15
  So it's world investor week.
• 8:17
  And we're going to talk about what our values are.
• 8:21
  And then we're going to look at a couple of different companies
• 8:23
  and figure out if they're within the scope of what,
• 8:26
  either I or that could be comfortable investing in.
• 8:29
  And because I think that's the thing.
• 8:31
  If you can figure out what your values are,
• 8:33
  then that will determine if you think
• 8:35
  a company is good or bad.
• 8:36
  And yeah, like I said, it's different for everyone.
• 8:38
  But I think the starting point is, okay,
• 8:41
  what are you okay with investing in?
• 8:43
  And what are you not?
• 8:44
  Because money has power in your investments
• 8:47
  can literally change the world.
• 8:49
  So it's really important that you
• 8:52
  invest in alignment with your values.
• 8:54
  But we're going to try and make this as easy as possible.
• 8:56
  And fun.
• 8:57
  And fun.
• 8:58
  Yeah.
• 8:58
  Yeah, if we bought a white board,
• 8:59
  we've just got some random props for us today.
• 9:01
  Because we thought, you know,
• 9:02
  we might feel inspired and this might be hard to communicate.
• 9:05
  So bear with us.
• 9:06
  Yes.
• 9:07
  So humans are unique creatures.
• 9:10
  Oh God.
• 9:11
  These billions of us on the planet Earth.
• 9:14
  Did you write this down?
• 9:15
  This is your intro.
• 9:16
  Fuck sounds like David Edinburgh.
• 9:17
  Humans are unique creatures.
• 9:20
  There are billions of us living on this planet Earth.
• 9:23
  We all have different upbringings,
• 9:25
  privileges, experiences, cultures.
• 9:28
  They're all different.
• 9:30
  Therefore we all hold different things important to us.
• 9:34
  Okay, love it.
• 9:35
  That's a little David Edinburgh.
• 9:36
  Just imagine you like walk through this wild life
• 9:39
  and be so unique.
• 9:42
  It was quite good.
• 9:43
  I hate accents.
• 9:44
  Do you know what this is so funny?
• 9:45
  I was biking.
• 9:46
  I was biking home yesterday on a line,
• 9:48
  you know, like a line by.
• 9:49
  Yes.
• 9:50
  I have seen your transactions.
• 9:51
  I think I'm fully losing the plot.
• 9:53
  Like I spent the entire ride home out loud
• 9:56
  practicing my Irish accent.
• 9:58
  By the end of my bike ride,
• 9:59
  I was selling quite Irish.
• 10:01
  But if I'd passed anyone,
• 10:02
  they would have thought I was so one hand.
• 10:05
  I was just talking to myself in an Irish accent.
• 10:07
  Okay, so back to David Edinburgh.
• 10:10
  So the point of that is that we are all unique creatures.
• 10:13
  So there is no right or wrong
• 10:16
  when it comes to investing.
• 10:17
  Oh.
• 10:17
  But I know it's frustrating and it's like,
• 10:20
  you just want an answer,
• 10:21
  you want something to be like,
• 10:21
  yep, that's good, yep, that's bad.
• 10:23
  But there's always different criteria.
• 10:25
  Like the fun that you met that I worked on,
• 10:26
  you can't be everything to everyone.
• 10:28
  So we set out a certain criteria,
• 10:31
  which is called a mandate,
• 10:32
  which is saying the fund is going to invest in
• 10:34
  within these parameters.
• 10:36
  So it might be,
• 10:37
  we're going to exclude any company that has fossil fuels
• 10:40
  that's more than 20% of it's revenue.
• 10:42
  So if it's below that,
• 10:44
  so if it's got a little bit, that's fine.
• 10:46
  But you don't want it to be over three-child.
• 10:47
  Or you might say,
• 10:49
  we're going to invest in pharmaceutical companies
• 10:51
  that test on animals only for drugs,
• 10:53
  not cosmetics.
• 10:54
  You're not like there's different,
• 10:55
  small print, I guess,
• 10:57
  or parameters that you can set that you're okay with.
• 11:00
  So things like that are what we set the fund at.
• 11:02
  And there are people that wouldn't be happy with it.
• 11:04
  It's like, you know,
• 11:04
  we have to draw the line somewhere.
• 11:06
  And so that's the same with yourself.
• 11:07
  When you're investing,
• 11:08
  you've got to figure out where that line is
• 11:09
  that you are drawing.
• 11:10
  So what we have come up with
• 11:12
  is some of the most common ethics and values
• 11:16
  that will run through.
• 11:17
  And then you can pick your three,
• 11:19
  so if I can pick my three,
• 11:21
  and then we can do a company.
• 11:22
  Okay, I love it.
• 11:22
  So this is essentially how the investing world
• 11:26
  likes to sort of label out.
• 11:28
  It's kind of the most common things
• 11:30
  that people wouldn't be happy with.
• 11:31
  It's a company doing.
• 11:32
  Yeah.
• 11:32
  The most obvious.
• 11:33
  The most obvious.
• 11:34
  Yes.
• 11:35
  And obviously things that are illegal,
• 11:37
  like selling drugs, child pornography,
• 11:38
  they're obviously not on this list
• 11:40
  because they're illegal.
• 11:40
  Yeah.
• 11:43
  So like, they're really bad.
• 11:44
  Like literally illegal is a no-brainer.
• 11:48
  This is like the next lens now.
• 11:50
  Yeah, if a company,
• 11:50
  if a public company was doing something illegal,
• 11:53
  they'd be shut down.
• 11:53
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 11:54
  So this is more the stuff that's,
• 11:56
  I guess not morally 100% okay
• 11:59
  and is kind of on the spectrum.
• 12:01
  Debatable.
• 12:02
  Debatable.
• 12:02
  Yeah.
• 12:03
  So the first one, pretty obvious.
• 12:05
  With this day and age,
• 12:06
  with the amount of natural disasters
• 12:08
  and events that are going on around the world,
• 12:10
  is fossil fuels and environmental damage.
• 12:13
  So a lot of people are like,
• 12:15
  yes, you know, I want my money to
• 12:18
  have a positive impact on the environment
• 12:19
  or I don't want to invest in companies
• 12:20
  that have a negative impact on the environment.
• 12:22
  What does that actually mean?
• 12:24
  Yeah, because I know where the, yeah.
• 12:25
  With this one, it's the exploration,
• 12:28
  production, refining,
• 12:30
  transport, you know,
• 12:31
  of oil, gas, thermal coal
• 12:33
  or power generation company that generates power
• 12:35
  from fossil fuels.
• 12:37
  You know, it's like where do you draw the line?
• 12:38
  You might be okay with power generation,
• 12:40
  but not exploration,
• 12:41
  because we don't need any more oil,
• 12:43
  gas, or thermal coal in the world.
• 12:44
  But then you realize that,
• 12:46
  you know, with renewable energy,
• 12:48
  say we had a really dry year in New Zealand,
• 12:50
  for example,
• 12:51
  and the lakes are really low
• 12:52
  and we couldn't get electricity that way.
• 12:54
  They had no lights and no heating over winter.
• 12:56
  It's a last resort.
• 12:57
  Then people would do anything.
• 12:59
  People would die.
• 12:59
  Yeah, yeah.
• 13:00
  People would end up dying.
• 13:01
  So it's kind of,
• 13:02
  there is flow and effects of not using fossil fuels,
• 13:05
  but takes a country and economy,
• 13:08
  a world to progress.
• 13:09
  But I definitely think they could move a lot faster.
• 13:12
  But so underneath this umbrella,
• 13:15
  there's power generation from fossil fuels.
• 13:18
  Deforestation, using like pesticides on food,
• 13:23
  and like orchards and all of that,
• 13:25
  just general environmental damage.
• 13:26
  They kind of using palm oil,
• 13:28
  all those things.
• 13:29
  It's kind of, what are you okay with
• 13:30
  and what are you not okay with?
• 13:31
  So the giant umbrella of this first value
• 13:35
  is anything to do with the environment.
• 13:37
  Yeah.
• 13:38
  So number one environment.
• 13:39
  Yes.
• 13:40
  And when looking at a company,
• 13:42
  you obviously could go for someone
• 13:44
  that's not extracting,
• 13:45
  in terms of investing.
• 13:47
  You could choose a company that's
• 13:48
  not actively extracting raw materials from the earth.
• 13:52
  Yes.
• 13:52
  You could go for a company
• 13:54
  that has a completely different business model
• 13:57
  and is actually,
• 13:58
  you know,
• 13:59
  regenerating exactly.
• 14:01
  So that's like a pretty,
• 14:02
  I think that's quite easy
• 14:03
  in terms of the overarching
• 14:06
  function, service or product of a company.
• 14:09
  And, you know, from the outside,
• 14:11
  say for example,
• 14:12
  you were to look at Coca-Cola.
• 14:13
  Yeah.
• 14:14
  That's a good example of someone
• 14:15
  that's clearly not
• 14:17
  imp, you know,
• 14:19
  in line with fossil fuels
• 14:20
  and environmental damage.
• 14:21
  Because the main operation is producing beverages
• 14:23
  which in turn are in plastic.
• 14:24
  Yes.
• 14:25
  So that would be a very clear cut,
• 14:27
  obvious one,
• 14:28
  if you're trying to eliminate this.
• 14:30
  Yes.
• 14:31
  But where it might get a little bit tricky
• 14:33
  or sticky is a company
• 14:34
  that may be part of their operations
• 14:37
  are, you know,
• 14:38
  inflicting some kind of damage
• 14:40
  on the environment.
• 14:40
  And so that's kind of where you need to figure out.
• 14:43
  It might be a company that 80%
• 14:44
  of its business operations
• 14:45
  are producing renewable energy
• 14:47
  but it's still got 20%
• 14:48
  that's from gas or thermal coal or, you know,
• 14:51
  so it's still got that small dirty part
• 14:53
  but the majority is good
• 14:56
  in terms of its environmental impact.
• 14:58
  So that's number one.
• 15:00
  Yes.
• 15:00
  So that's number one.
• 15:01
  Number two is weapons.
• 15:03
  So I remember we did a campaign ages ago
• 15:06
  when it was actually a year and a half.
• 15:08
  I heard on the news
• 15:09
  that the new Russia Ukraine war
• 15:10
  has been going on for a year and a half
• 15:11
  which is absolutely crazy.
• 15:13
  What?
• 15:13
  But we did a big campaign around.
• 15:15
  Did you know where your Kiwisave
• 15:17
  is invested in terms of
• 15:18
  is it invested in controversial weapons?
• 15:20
  And for anyone that's missed that
• 15:22
  highly recommend going back to listen
• 15:24
  and the reason this was so fascinating
• 15:26
  I loved this episode.
• 15:27
  I mean, I didn't love it
• 15:28
  because it was actually terrifying
• 15:30
  but learning about where your retirement
• 15:33
  aka your 20-year holiday fund
• 15:35
  a huge amount of your savings and investments.
• 15:38
  I mean, the percentage of Kiwisave providers
• 15:42
  that are funneling money into weapon production
• 15:45
  was shocking.
• 15:46
  I remember when we first found out about this
• 15:47
  I was like, oh, what?
• 15:49
  So raising the curve episode 33
• 15:51
  the best way to put your money where your mouth is
• 15:54
  that was all about how much money is going off shore
• 15:57
  to produce weapons.
• 15:58
  And I think since then I've been
• 16:00
  much more aware of the fact that, you know,
• 16:04
  not all firearms are going to some
• 16:07
  right-winged, weird man in a basement
• 16:12
  living in the states who are political now.
• 16:14
  Sorry.
• 16:15
  Yeah, political pockets.
• 16:17
  What I mean is some random do in America
• 16:19
  only a gun.
• 16:20
  It's not just as simple as
• 16:23
  putting guns in the wrong hands or being misused
• 16:26
  or at fueling walls.
• 16:28
  There's actually firearms that are produced
• 16:30
  for different things.
• 16:31
  Yes.
• 16:31
  Is that right?
• 16:32
  Yeah, well, there's, I mean, there's firearms
• 16:34
  that are going to Ukraine to help them
• 16:36
  but there's also firearms going to Russia.
• 16:38
  So it's, this is the difficult part
• 16:40
  is that you don't know where those
• 16:42
  products are being distributed.
• 16:43
  Yeah, yeah.
• 16:44
  And they're very hard to tell where they were.
• 16:47
  So with this it's almost easy to be like,
• 16:49
  you know what, I don't even want to send my weapons at all.
• 16:51
  There's controversial weapons, which is like
• 16:53
  nuclear weapons, landmines,
• 16:54
  cluster bombs that are used in more.
• 16:56
  And there's like shotguns and stuff
• 16:58
  which are used for more hunter-gathering,
• 17:00
  which is a bit more, I know.
• 17:02
  I still don't like that.
• 17:04
  So number three is human rights.
• 17:06
  So again, very broad, but probably a significant one
• 17:09
  for a lot of people.
• 17:10
  But this is anything that does
• 17:12
  significant harm to society.
• 17:13
  So war and conflict.
• 17:15
  So labor rights violations.
• 17:16
  So someone that's, you know,
• 17:18
  telling you to work your ass off
• 17:19
  and paying you two cents.
• 17:20
  Or paying under minimum wage or all of that.
• 17:22
  Human rights abuses, an example would be,
• 17:26
  remember primark, years ago,
• 17:28
  they had this manufacturing,
• 17:30
  where they created their clothes,
• 17:31
  their factory and Bangladesh and it collapsed
• 17:34
  because the building conditions was so terrible.
• 17:36
  Collapsed and killed over a thousand people.
• 17:38
  So poor working conditions,
• 17:40
  working conditions,
• 17:41
  your public safety issues.
• 17:43
  If you've got a construction site
• 17:45
  and people keep dying,
• 17:46
  like that's terrible.
• 17:47
  That kind of comes under public safety.
• 17:48
  Also, if you put out an iPhone
• 17:50
  and it's sort of blowing up in people's
• 17:52
  faces or something,
• 17:52
  like that's...
• 17:53
  It's essentially the idea of
• 17:55
  what's going to cause harm to a human.
• 17:57
  Yes, yeah, all society.
• 17:59
  Yeah.
• 17:59
  Number four is tobacco.
• 18:01
  This will be illegal so there are hymn.
• 18:02
  There's only a few public companies
• 18:04
  that actually manufactured tobacco,
• 18:05
  but a lot of companies sell it,
• 18:08
  like supermarkets in Australia.
• 18:09
  True.
• 18:10
  You know, you can buy cigarettes at the supermarket
• 18:12
  and it's a huge percentage of their...
• 18:15
  Interest.
• 18:16
  ...will alcohol in tobacco.
• 18:17
  So that could include manufacture,
• 18:19
  distribution,
• 18:20
  and then how far do you go with that?
• 18:22
  Is it the plastic companies that make
• 18:23
  the containers that the cigarettes go in?
• 18:25
  You know, like all of that,
• 18:26
  it's kind of weedied online.
• 18:27
  Anyway, gambling.
• 18:30
  This one I don't like,
• 18:31
  I think gambling is a sucking of society.
• 18:35
  I mean, there's a lot of sucking of society.
• 18:37
  I know.
• 18:38
  But yeah, gambling is a no-brainer.
• 18:39
  I mean, how many companies would you invest in
• 18:41
  that have...
• 18:42
  Well, there's a lot of online gambling
• 18:44
  or like sports betting companies.
• 18:46
  And that's a bit of a...
• 18:48
  Are they public?
• 18:49
  Like Sky City Casino in New Zealand.
• 18:51
  But how many companies would there be
• 18:54
  and say that S&P 500,
• 18:56
  top 500 companies listed in the States?
• 18:58
  There'd be, like, diseases,
• 19:00
  NGM,
• 19:01
  a lot of casinos are public companies.
• 19:02
  Oh, really?
• 19:04
  Yeah, and Australia is...
• 19:05
  Australia, there's heaps, like...
• 19:07
  Oh, yeah, that's a no-brainer for me.
• 19:08
  Yeah.
• 19:08
  Animal Welfare.
• 19:10
  So this is animal testing.
• 19:12
  Animal testing.
• 19:13
  And this is not only for how does mascara lock
• 19:16
  this is for drugs, this is for everything.
• 19:19
  Yeah.
• 19:20
  Yeah, yeah, definitely.
• 19:21
  I think the thing about animal welfare,
• 19:24
  there's so much of it that's behind closed doors.
• 19:26
  There's so much of it that we don't see or know about
• 19:28
  and you just get a product
• 19:30
  and don't even think about it.
• 19:31
  Even just makes me think
• 19:33
  I need to be way more aware of where my money's going
• 19:36
  as a consumer, as an investor,
• 19:38
  because, I mean, like, the makeup that I bought
• 19:40
  and is on my face right now,
• 19:42
  like, was this tested on a...
• 19:43
  Yeah.
• 19:44
  On a rash, like, I would never be able to do that
• 19:46
  harm to an animal myself.
• 19:48
  So I shouldn't be spending money
• 19:50
  because that is essentially condone.
• 19:52
  That's a good way to put it.
• 19:53
  Yeah, it's kind of...
• 19:54
  And it's also...
• 19:55
  Yeah, it does come back to the consumer
• 19:57
  and investor thing.
• 19:58
  They can't be contradictory.
• 19:59
  No.
• 20:00
  You know, you don't want to be buying free range chicken
• 20:03
  and then investing in chicken farms.
• 20:05
  Or, yeah.
• 20:06
  Retailers as well.
• 20:07
  Like luxury retailers that use leather
• 20:09
  and snake skin, for example, crocodile skin
• 20:12
  and their products.
• 20:13
  These are pleather boots, don't I?
• 20:16
  But you used...
• 20:16
  When we were discussing this episode yesterday,
• 20:19
  and this is obviously off-mic,
• 20:20
  but because we were not having an argument,
• 20:22
  but we were...
• 20:23
  Because Vic and I...
• 20:24
  It was a really good discussion.
• 20:25
  I almost think that could have been the podcast.
• 20:27
  Yeah, you used a really good example of a company
• 20:29
  that was kind of borderline
• 20:31
  and some people would have been like,
• 20:32
  I'm okay with that and some people would have said no.
• 20:34
  Yeah, so I was deep in TikTok
• 20:35
  and I saw this video and it was...
• 20:38
  I don't know what country it was,
• 20:39
  but it was...
• 20:40
  There was hunting full crocodile eggs
• 20:42
  and then taking these crocodiles and breeding them
• 20:46
  to then sell to like Birken and Umirs
• 20:48
  to make these handbags.
• 20:50
  And I was sitting there like absolutely appalled.
• 20:52
  But the article was actually a positive one
• 20:56
  and that there's a certain village
• 20:58
  and let's say it's in Africa
• 21:01
  was surviving and the only way it was surviving
• 21:04
  was because of being able to breed
• 21:06
  and sell these crocodiles.
• 21:08
  And I was like, oh my gosh,
• 21:09
  that's such an interesting spin on it.
• 21:12
  Not saying that I can don't it,
• 21:13
  but I was like, oh my gosh, so this village
• 21:14
  would have very little prosperity
• 21:16
  and growth in terms of its income of the village
• 21:20
  and the people wouldn't have jobs, etc.
• 21:22
  If there wasn't demand for these...
• 21:24
  So it's just fascinating when you see
• 21:27
  maybe what you thought was a negative thing
• 21:29
  can actually have a positive outcome
• 21:31
  for different parties.
• 21:32
  I don't know.
• 21:32
  Oh my god.
• 21:33
  I know, it just makes...
• 21:34
  This is what I mean, it's so confusing.
• 21:36
  I think the thing that gets me is
• 21:39
  I want people to have jobs.
• 21:40
  I want people to have prosperity.
• 21:41
  I want people to have, obviously.
• 21:43
  But do I want that?
• 21:45
  If it means that everyone in the world
• 21:46
  is working for an oil company or...
• 21:48
  Yeah.
• 21:48
  No, that's correct.
• 21:49
  ...exploiting animals or, you know,
• 21:51
  I would rather us all have no money
• 21:53
  and just be like eating dirt
• 21:55
  than surviving on dirty companies.
• 21:59
  Yeah.
• 21:59
  Why can't we give that village,
• 22:02
  you know, jobs at a company
• 22:03
  that's actually doing good things in the world?
• 22:05
  And I don't know.
• 22:06
  It was just an interesting article
• 22:07
  because I was looking at it like,
• 22:08
  oh my gosh.
• 22:09
  And then at the end, I was like, wow,
• 22:10
  that article was supposed to be a positive one.
• 22:12
  Like it was just kind of like a bit of a mind, fine.
• 22:15
  Yeah.
• 22:15
  Anyway, okay.
• 22:16
  Number seven is pornography and adult entertainment.
• 22:19
  So this is not child pornography.
• 22:21
  No, this is adult.
• 22:22
  This is production of material
• 22:24
  or, yeah, producing adult entertainment
• 22:26
  or pornography.
• 22:27
  I'm fine with that as long as the people
• 22:29
  who are in it are,
• 22:30
  can don't like getting paid properly,
• 22:32
  they feel.
• 22:33
  And I think that one kind of feeds back
• 22:34
  into human rights, human rights one.
• 22:36
  Like if they're not getting exploited
• 22:38
  and they enjoy their job
• 22:39
  and they're earning great money
• 22:40
  and they feel really good about it.
• 22:41
  You're fine.
• 22:42
  Yeah.
• 22:43
  To me, that's like,
• 22:44
  it's not that it's a low priority.
• 22:45
  Obviously the human rights thing is massive.
• 22:48
  But if someone's a fancy job
• 22:50
  and they make you money from it,
• 22:51
  and it's great,
• 22:52
  then that's not my number one alcohol.
• 22:55
  So this is like the production,
• 22:56
  distribution, or retail.
• 22:58
  Also kind of whatever.
• 22:59
  Like I'm not, I also feel like I drink alcohol
• 23:02
  so I can't be, I'm not going to be.
• 23:03
  No, totally.
• 23:04
  Oh, that's what it is.
• 23:04
  In contradiction, wouldn't I?
• 23:05
  Yeah.
• 23:06
  And then the last one here
• 23:07
  is about diversity and inclusion.
• 23:09
  So this is having bored diversity.
• 23:11
  So not just gender diversity,
• 23:12
  but race, ethnicity, age, diversity,
• 23:15
  all of that experience,
• 23:16
  I think is really, really important
• 23:18
  if you're running a company
• 23:20
  or having oversight of a company
• 23:21
  and you want to have diversity on your board.
• 23:24
  But also like the number of companies
• 23:26
  out there that have,
• 23:26
  oh, we've bet this target,
• 23:28
  and it's just,
• 23:29
  but the target is tiny.
• 23:30
  It's just so frustrating.
• 23:32
  It's like, oh, cool.
• 23:32
  We've got 10% of women on our boards
• 23:34
  and our target was eight.
• 23:36
  So it's like, well, why is it not 50?
• 23:38
  Yeah, anyways.
• 23:39
  I mean, this comes into race, sexuality,
• 23:42
  gender diversity, everything.
• 23:44
  It's a full spectrum.
• 23:46
  Are we representing the world?
• 23:48
  You know, for so long, our whole world
• 23:51
  and the Barbie movie was an interesting take on this,
• 23:54
  the board was all men
• 23:55
  who were creating these products
• 23:57
  and producing them, they were all white men.
• 23:59
  And for so long,
• 24:00
  it was all men who were working in jobs, right?
• 24:04
  So, you know, there was a time
• 24:05
  where women weren't even working.
• 24:06
  So of course, naturally the world
• 24:09
  that we then had reflected back to us
• 24:11
  was that of bias of the people
• 24:13
  who were creating the products,
• 24:15
  the services, et cetera, it makes sense.
• 24:18
  Seeing shows like sex education,
• 24:20
  which is amazing in terms of inclusion.
• 24:23
  You know, they're really trying to showcase
• 24:27
  the diversity of what is in the world on the screen.
• 24:30
  And this is what this point here is
• 24:32
  in terms of in the world.
• 24:35
  It's the same thing.
• 24:36
  If we want having the leaders of those
• 24:37
  of the companies you're investing in,
• 24:39
  representing the car world.
• 24:40
  Different aspects of the world.
• 24:41
  Yeah, and people.
• 24:42
  And I think that that's a massive one.
• 24:44
  So we've gone through all nine.
• 24:46
  I feel like we said they were going to be seven,
• 24:48
  but there was nine.
• 24:49
  So I'm just going to run through it.
• 24:50
  So fossil fuels in the environment,
• 24:52
  weapons, human rights, tobacco, gambling,
• 24:55
  animal welfare,
• 24:56
  pornography, alcohol and diversity inclusion.
• 24:59
  Yeah. So what would be your number three?
• 25:02
  If you were looking for the top three things
• 25:04
  that you wanted to take off before investing in a company,
• 25:06
  what would you be at most important?
• 25:07
  I would be the environment, human rights and diversity.
• 25:10
  Mine would definitely be number one fossil fuels environment.
• 25:15
  Number two would be human rights.
• 25:18
  And then my third one would be probably diversity and inclusion.
• 25:21
  Awesome. We got the same girl.
• 25:24
  Then if I'm wanting to invest in a company, say Google,
• 25:26
  how would I do a quick tech, tech on those three things?
• 25:32
  Yeah. So I think the best thing is to try and think of like a triangle.
• 25:37
  You know, like a food pyramid,
• 25:38
  but make it like the conscious investing pyramid.
• 25:41
  And the biggest thing is to ask the question,
• 25:45
  the company that you're looking at, you know,
• 25:47
  what is their main operation?
• 25:49
  What is their main business?
• 25:51
  What are they doing?
• 25:52
  What are they producing?
• 25:53
  What is their overarching thing that they do?
• 25:55
  So what's the bread and butter?
• 25:57
  Yeah. So for example, you said Coca-Cola,
• 25:58
  producing beverages, sugary beverages,
• 26:01
  and also a lot of plastic.
• 26:03
  So they would probably be...
• 26:05
  They're not passing number one.
• 26:06
  No, no.
• 26:07
  BP, for example, fast fashion companies,
• 26:09
  that will be absolutely not.
• 26:11
  No, no, yeah.
• 26:11
  If your main value is the environment.
• 26:15
  On the other side, it would be like,
• 26:16
  you invest in solar age, which is a solar panel company.
• 26:19
  That would be big green tick, easy done.
• 26:22
  No brainer, because they produce solar panels,
• 26:25
  which is great for the environment.
• 26:26
  Things that might get a bit tricky would be, yes, like a Google.
• 26:31
  That's a tech company with a lot of tentacles
• 26:33
  into different countries, different sectors,
• 26:36
  you know, different business divisions.
• 26:37
  So that's a bit more complex.
• 26:39
  Yeah, as well as things like retailers,
• 26:41
  like a Costco is really, really good in that it provides
• 26:44
  super, super low cost products and food for a lot of people,
• 26:48
  particularly in this environment.
• 26:50
  But then again, it provides a lot of waste.
• 26:53
  Yeah, so I don't know.
• 26:54
  I don't know, and yeah.
• 26:55
  So the first step is essentially,
• 26:58
  is this fundamentally a very obvious no
• 27:02
  in terms of their operations aren't aligned with my values?
• 27:06
  Yeah, particularly positive from an,
• 27:08
  say, for example, for me, in terms of
• 27:09
  if environment, or you, the environment's number one.
• 27:11
  Yeah.
• 27:12
  Coca-Cola, easy.
• 27:13
  Like, it would be easier to go down the roof,
• 27:15
  someone that's actively doing good,
• 27:17
  if you weren't sure,
• 27:19
  because it's a too hard basket to figure out.
• 27:20
  Yeah, the ones that might be marginally good or marginally bad.
• 27:25
  Yeah.
• 27:25
  So then you would take your three key values.
• 27:29
  So environment, human rights, diversity.
• 27:32
  Mm-hmm.
• 27:32
  And you would then go through all the reports
• 27:37
  that Google has presented.
• 27:39
  So this is the second part where it gets a bit more tedious
• 27:44
  or difficult.
• 27:45
  So that's why we've had three really key values.
• 27:48
  It sounds like a bit of a pun, but you could Google
• 27:50
  what's Google's sustainability goals?
• 27:52
  What's Google's carbon emissions targets?
• 27:54
  What does it use in terms of fossil fuels?
• 27:56
  Because I wouldn't even know what Google would use in terms of fossil fuels.
• 28:00
  Yeah, so I mean,
• 28:01
  how is it even a gray area?
• 28:03
  They definitely wouldn't have been a company that I would put
• 28:05
  in the naughty buckets.
• 28:06
  So what are stuff that they...
• 28:07
  Yeah, so I guess in terms of Google,
• 28:10
  they have data centers are massive for them.
• 28:14
  So they are huge energy consumers.
• 28:17
  So where do they get that energy from?
• 28:18
  Is it from 100% renewable sources?
• 28:20
  Or is it from coal?
• 28:22
  Is it from gas?
• 28:24
  Is it, you know, like, how do they get that?
• 28:26
  They are actually...
• 28:27
  They've got one of the most ambitious targets
• 28:29
  in terms of technology companies,
• 28:31
  the large thing, which is really, really good.
• 28:33
  And did you find that out by going into this sustainability report?
• 28:36
  Going control-eth.
• 28:37
  And would you do like fossil fuels emissions?
• 28:40
  Yeah, okay.
• 28:41
  Or just Googling one of their sustainability goals.
• 28:43
  But big companies like this, they need to be the leaders.
• 28:46
  You know, they're so big that a lot of them do...
• 28:48
  I know Apple is really good with it as well.
• 28:50
  They've committed a lot to renewable energy as well.
• 28:53
  The only thing that I guess was kind of a red flag
• 28:58
  or like a maroon flag was...
• 29:02
  Yeah, they're just really big energy consumers.
• 29:04
  And the thing is that they can't really help that.
• 29:07
  So the only thing that they can do is therefore
• 29:10
  focus on getting a lot of the energy from renewable sources.
• 29:14
  And they've actually got...
• 29:15
  They've been carbon neutral since 2007.
• 29:18
  And they're aiming to run their operations
• 29:21
  on carbon-free energy by 2030.
• 29:23
  So that's pretty good targets.
• 29:26
  And so when you say they've been carbon neutral,
• 29:28
  they've been offsetting what they use
• 29:31
  by planting trees.
• 29:32
  By planting trees or...
• 29:33
  Okay.
• 29:34
  Yeah.
• 29:34
  And I mean, they've got so much data
• 29:36
  that they can put to good use in terms of
• 29:38
  figuring out the best approaches
• 29:39
  to be environmentally friendly, which is great.
• 29:43
  Yeah. And I guess that the key thing with Google
• 29:44
  is that because it is so big,
• 29:46
  when it moves the needle a tiny bit
• 29:48
  that has a massive impact on the environment,
• 29:51
  positively and negatively.
• 29:52
  So that's like the beauty of investing
• 29:54
  in these massive companies.
• 29:55
  If they're doing it right,
• 29:57
  it can have a really, really positive impact.
• 29:59
  Second one, human rights.
• 30:01
  And again, I just googled this.
• 30:03
  There's been multiple articles over the last few years
• 30:05
  about their US labor-right law violations.
• 30:09
  Yeah.
• 30:10
  So, and I'm not trying to create excuses,
• 30:12
  but when you have that many staff globally,
• 30:16
  like millions and millions of staff globally,
• 30:18
  I feel like there's always going to be complaints
• 30:20
  for people not happy, not saying that that's
• 30:22
  I'm condoning it at all.
• 30:23
  What sort of stuff came up when you googled it?
• 30:26
  So in terms of people working long hours
• 30:28
  and not paying them enough
• 30:29
  and that kind of stuff, working conditions.
• 30:31
  But I mean, it's the same with Amazon.
• 30:33
  Amazon's had multiple of those as well.
• 30:35
  Well, that's for us.
• 30:36
  Yeah, so it's kind of, I guess,
• 30:38
  part and parcel of running
• 30:40
  as such a massive company,
• 30:41
  not that I'm giving excuses for either.
• 30:43
  And what comes under human rights
• 30:45
  is having visibility on your supply chain.
• 30:47
  So, yeah, this is a massive one, is it?
• 30:49
  Google has over a thousand different suppliers
• 30:52
  having visibility on all of them
• 30:54
  and across all their different divisions.
• 30:56
  It's just like, it would be such a headache,
• 30:59
  but why don't you just sort of have to deal with that?
• 31:02
  I mean, if anyone's going to have the resource
• 31:04
  or the money to pay for the research
• 31:06
  that that would take, that would be Google, right?
• 31:08
  Yeah.
• 31:08
  And so it's almost like the bigger you are,
• 31:10
  the more difficult it is with that visibility,
• 31:12
  but then the more money you have to spend,
• 31:14
  change your own position of power.
• 31:15
  If you were like to one supplier,
• 31:16
  well, if you don't do this, we're going to not use you.
• 31:19
  I'd be like, Google's telling me to do it.
• 31:21
  Exactly, yeah.
• 31:22
  And I also think the great thing about Google is that
• 31:26
  it's just connected so many societies around the world,
• 31:30
  probably ones that were in developing countries
• 31:34
  and all of that and kind of brought them into
• 31:36
  a world that we whenever would have known existed without Google.
• 31:40
  Do you know what I mean? It's kind of, yeah.
• 31:42
  The negative impact that they're having on human rights,
• 31:45
  there's obviously going to be some
• 31:47
  in terms of people that aren't happy,
• 31:48
  but the positive impact is connecting the world with information.
• 31:52
  Totally.
• 31:53
  Yeah, yeah.
• 31:54
  I've been able to research about Google.
• 31:56
  It transforms the way that we love Google.
• 31:59
  I know that's a dramatic way to put it, but it's true.
• 32:01
  In terms of diversity and inclusion,
• 32:03
  it's hit its goal for diversifying its leadership
• 32:06
  three years ahead of schedule, which is great.
• 32:08
  But then you kind of look at the percentages
• 32:11
  and black people make up 5.2% of its leadership,
• 32:15
  which is up from 2.6% in 2020.
• 32:18
  Oh, that's fair.
• 32:19
  And just to put this in comparison,
• 32:21
  18% of the US population is black.
• 32:24
  So yeah, even though it's like, oh my gosh,
• 32:27
  it's gone from 2.6 to 5.2.
• 32:30
  That's still pretty good.
• 32:31
  These need to read beyond the numbers.
• 32:32
  And this is why, yeah, it's kind of, okay,
• 32:35
  well, what's the average in the US?
• 32:37
  And then, yeah, so they should be really leaning
• 32:39
  in this respect.
• 32:41
  Also, the global percentage of women that they employ,
• 32:45
  this is men, is in 23, it was 34%.
• 32:49
  And in 2014, it was 30%.
• 32:51
  So nine years has only gone up 4%.
• 32:54
  I don't know, sometimes I might come on Google.
• 32:55
  You should be leading the pack.
• 32:57
  You've got the most resources to put into support of programs
• 33:00
  to upscale women and ethnic minority groups.
• 33:04
  So I don't know, they probably could be doing better
• 33:05
  in that sense.
• 33:06
  But the thing is also with Google is that they laid off
• 33:09
  a lot of people post COVID,
• 33:11
  because they did a massive hiring spread
• 33:13
  and they cut all this stuff
• 33:14
  and that significantly impacted these minority groups.
• 33:17
  So the diversity inclusion actually kind of went a bit backwards.
• 33:20
  So all of that then goes to the top of the triangle.
• 33:23
  And then you say, does Google get to the top of the triangle?
• 33:25
  So we choose a company, that's step one.
• 33:28
  And then we put it in the bottom of the pyramid.
• 33:30
  And we go, what does that business do?
• 33:34
  Does it actively destroy the planet
• 33:37
  or actively hum humans or actively whatever it is you choose?
• 33:41
  Or somewhere in the middle.
• 33:42
  Or somewhere in the middle.
• 33:43
  Is it yay, nay, or second level of the pyramid?
• 33:48
  I've chosen three of my most important values, values.
• 33:52
  And this is where you have to do a bit more of a deeper dive
• 33:55
  into the company.
• 33:56
  And maybe give yourself an hour,
• 33:59
  even not even there.
• 34:00
  Oh, I reckon you could do it quicker.
• 34:01
  If you don't have time, half an hour, whatever.
• 34:04
  Has Google had any human rights violations?
• 34:07
  Has Google tested on animals?
• 34:10
  Set diversity targets.
• 34:11
  Has Google got any environmental goals?
• 34:15
  And just see if you're happy with it.
• 34:17
  And there'll be a number of articles as well
• 34:19
  that will help you understand and compare
• 34:21
  with other companies and that kind of stuff.
• 34:23
  The other thing is that's actually really good.
• 34:24
  Is that there's ethical ETFs,
• 34:26
  which if you're sitting here going, oh my gosh, this is all
• 34:30
  I can't be bothered.
• 34:31
  Then a quick and clean way of investing ethically
• 34:35
  is to use an ETF.
• 34:36
  But again, that company or person that's created at ETF
• 34:40
  might not have the same values as you.
• 34:43
  So there might be companies in there that you don't like.
• 34:45
  But it's because it technically fits whatever
• 34:47
  the criteria of that ETF is.
• 34:49
  Exactly.
• 34:50
  Yes.
• 34:50
  So it might be a low carbon ETF,
• 34:52
  but there might be companies in there that invest in pornography
• 34:55
  and you're not OK with that.
• 34:56
  Yeah, exactly.
• 34:57
  So and again, you can just Google low carbon ETF,
• 35:00
  clean energy ETF, socially responsible ETF,
• 35:04
  that kind of thing, and some will pop up.
• 35:05
  And don't get to hang up online.
• 35:07
  Is this the right one?
• 35:07
  Is it not?
• 35:08
  An ETF usually, because it is so diversified.
• 35:12
  Is much better than investing in like
• 35:14
  in packing one or two companies that are not doing well.
• 35:18
  Yeah.
• 35:18
  I also think a really important thing to note here.
• 35:21
  And given its world investor week,
• 35:23
  it's probably a great time to remind people
• 35:25
  is that a lot of the companies that are doing
• 35:27
  incredible things for the world, for people, for diversity,
• 35:31
  for all the things that we care about,
• 35:33
  they might not be listed companies.
• 35:35
  Exactly.
• 35:35
  It's actually a really good point.
• 35:37
  And something to think about is that
• 35:39
  if you want to invest through investing in companies
• 35:43
  and you're incredibly known to like anything
• 35:47
  that's affecting humans, planet, whatever,
• 35:50
  then go for the companies that at that first level of the pyramid
• 35:54
  are a blatant yes, like the energy companies.
• 35:57
  Find ones that are easy.
• 35:58
  It might be an ETF that's like saving children in Africa.
• 36:02
  Yeah.
• 36:03
  There's like female empowerment ETFs.
• 36:05
  There's, yeah, there's all sorts.
• 36:06
  All sorts of ETFs.
• 36:08
  There's ones like that if you, yeah.
• 36:10
  So there is very specific ones,
• 36:12
  and there's very broad ones like ESG leaders, ETFs.
• 36:16
  And then it's definitely making me think about stuff
• 36:17
  like I have invested in the S&P for 500.
• 36:20
  Yeah.
• 36:20
  There's oil companies.
• 36:22
  There's oil companies, tobacco companies.
• 36:24
  I mean, I think they have oil companies.
• 36:26
  Yeah, maybe I'm not okay with that.
• 36:27
  Yeah.
• 36:28
  I kind of was just like, oh, S&P 500,
• 36:29
  that's an easy one because it's diversified.
• 36:31
  It's the top companies, but there will be so many bad companies in there.
• 36:35
  So you can get like ESG one, like a ESG leader's kind of S&P 500,
• 36:40
  which picks out the best socially responsible,
• 36:43
  like yes, all sustainable companies from the S&P 500.
• 36:47
  But again, those companies might still be in there.
• 36:49
  So not as black and white in terms of investing.
• 36:53
  But if you're that passionate about it,
• 36:55
  then I guess you kind of just need to put in that extra bit of work,
• 36:58
  unfortunately.
• 36:59
  But we've hopefully made it a bit easier for you
• 37:03
  with a little pyramid diagram.
• 37:05
  And this isn't even evolving space as well.
• 37:07
  So hopefully there will be something where it's like,
• 37:11
  this is good, this is bad.
• 37:12
  But right now, the best way is just to figure out what your values are
• 37:16
  and does this company or ETF align with those values or fund or can we save a provider?
• 37:23
  You know, this can be super broad and you can definitely make sure that
• 37:27
  anything that you invest in, no matter what type of investment it is,
• 37:31
  make sure it aligns with your values.
• 37:33
  If you've got more questions on ethical investing or these things that you think
• 37:36
  would be helpful to make it easier for you to invest ethically, please,
• 37:40
  can you get in touch with us?
• 37:41
  Because we've been talking about this a lot lately, like how
• 37:45
  how do we simplify it?
• 37:46
  How do we simplify this?
• 37:47
  Like is it, do you need like a website that has the top 10,
• 37:52
  you know, cleanest ETFs?
• 37:54
  Is it, you know, like what,
• 37:57
  what information could make this easier?
• 37:58
  Because it's a space we've both really passionate about,
• 38:01
  but it's also really complicated,
• 38:02
  confusing lots going on in space.
• 38:04
  So hopefully this has made it a little bit easier to understand.
• 38:07
  Please get in touch with any questions or ideas.
• 38:09
  Yeah, we'd just like to say thanks so much to the FMA financial markets authority
• 38:13
  for entrusting us with this very important message,
• 38:17
  which is invest cleverly.
• 38:19
  Consciously.
• 38:20
  Invisibly.
• 38:21
  In cool clever companies.
• 38:23
  These were your eyes wide open.
• 38:24
  Yeah, but yeah, thanks so much for listening.
• 38:28
  Thanks.
• 38:29
  Thank you so much for listening to Raising the Curve.
• 38:32
  These conversations are designed to teach you everything that you need to know
• 38:35
  to be better with your money, from saving, to investing,
• 38:38
  to talking to your friends about your salaries.
• 38:41
  And if you'd like to what you heard, we would love it.
• 38:43
  If you could hit subscribe button, please.
• 38:45
  Yes, please.
• 38:45
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• 38:46
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• 38:49
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• 38:51
  Oh, yeah, our month.
• 38:52
  Okay, lots of love.
• 38:53
  See you soon.
• 38:54
  Bye.
• 39:00
  Guess what?
• 39:01
  What?
• 39:01
  That's world investor way.
• 39:03
  World investor way.
• 39:05
  We know.
• 39:05
  Very exciting.
• 39:06
  And we've got some other exciting news.
• 39:08
  We are partnering with the FMA,
• 39:10
  which is the financial markets authority
• 39:12
  to talk to you about investing.
• 39:14
  And in particular, investing in a way that aligns with your values.
• 39:16
  Yes, we're into this.
• 39:17
  Investing is just, it's really similar to the way
• 39:20
  that you spend your money as a consumer.
• 39:22
  You want to be investing in a way that actually aligns with your values
• 39:27
  and how you think of yourself as a person.
• 39:29
  So the fact that you can actually invest
• 39:30
  through an ethical lens is very cool.
• 39:32
  And investing is really personal, especially when your values are involved.
• 39:36
  You know, what your friends or your family might value
• 39:38
  might be quite different to what you value.
• 39:40
  So the same goes also with fund providers.
• 39:44
  This is a hard one as well.
• 39:45
  There's something that VIX often talked about.
• 39:47
  Because a lot of fund providers say the word ethical,
• 39:49
  but one person's or provider's version of ethical
• 39:53
  might be very different to yours.
• 39:54
  And so because this is your money,
• 39:56
  you need to make decisions with your eyes wide open.
• 39:58
  So we want to make sure that when you're investing,
• 40:01
  your investments match your values and your ethics.
• 40:03
  It's not always black and white,
• 40:05
  which is definitely frustrating at times.
• 40:07
  And it's taken me a long time to understand this from VIX.
• 40:10
  She's always like, at subject to it,
• 40:12
  at subject to it, you're like, oh my god,
• 40:14
  please just tell me what's right or wrong.
• 40:15
  But the thing is it's not that simple.
• 40:17
  So you need to know where your investments are
• 40:20
  and what kind of companies they're supporting.
• 40:22
  So make sure you do check your investments
• 40:25
  and make sure that they do really reflect your personal values.
• 40:29
  So for more information about the FMA or World Investor
• 40:32
  where you can head to the link in our show notes
• 40:34
  or if you may dot g o v t dot in z forward slash your values.