Latest / Adventure Sports Podcast / Ep. 1141 - How Mountaineering Changes Lives with Lisa Thompson

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Ep. 1141 - How Mountaineering Changes Lives with Lisa Thompson · Adventure Sports Podcast

0:06
[SPEAKER_00]: You're listening to the Adventure Sports podcast.
0:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for adventuring with us, as we discover what incredible athletes and outdoor enthusiasts are doing all over the world.
0:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Now here's your host, Kurt Linville.
0:20
[SPEAKER_02]: Hey friends, thank you for listening to the Adventure Sports podcast today.
0:23
[SPEAKER_02]: I am so excited about today's episode for multiple reasons.
0:27
[SPEAKER_02]: One is because of our amazing guest, Lisa Thompson.
0:32
[SPEAKER_02]: And Lisa is a world-man-hound mountaineer.
0:35
[SPEAKER_02]: She has done the seven summits.
0:37
[SPEAKER_02]: She has even climbed K2.
0:38
[SPEAKER_02]: She owns two businesses to help other people do likewise.
0:43
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's just going to be fantastic to hear from her and to hear how mountaineering literally.
0:49
[SPEAKER_02]: changed the whole direction of her life.
0:52
[SPEAKER_02]: But before we go there, it is finally time for the announcement that I've been hinting about or promising for months now.
1:02
[SPEAKER_02]: You may recall that I've been saying this is an opportunity for the Adventure Sports podcast family to make a very real and significant difference in the world.
1:13
[SPEAKER_02]: Let me explain a little bit.
1:15
[SPEAKER_02]: Back in 1993,
1:17
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I know, many of you weren't born yet.
1:20
[SPEAKER_02]: Back in 1993, I went to Africa.
1:23
[SPEAKER_02]: We took on second jobs, we saved our pennies, we bought airplane tickets, and we went to Kenya.
1:30
[SPEAKER_02]: And while we were there, we built a school.
1:33
[SPEAKER_02]: And we met the most amazing people and saw the most amazing landscapes.
1:39
[SPEAKER_02]: I fell in love with the land, the people, and even the wildlife.
1:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Africa is a magical, wonderful place, and if you ever get the opportunity or make the opportunity, no matter how hard it is to get there, get off the beaten path and see what the real Africa is about, man, I highly, highly recommend it.
2:01
[SPEAKER_02]: One way that we got off the beaten path, as we found a man who had a batata to, which was essentially a van that he could use as a taxi cab, and he agreed to drive us around for five weeks while we were there.
2:14
[SPEAKER_02]: His name is Joseph Kamani, ended up being a dear friend.
2:18
[SPEAKER_02]: What was wonderful about it is that his English was very good, of course he also spoke Kakuyu, and he spoke Swahili.
2:26
[SPEAKER_02]: So not only did he drive us around in his van, but he interpreted for us.
2:31
[SPEAKER_02]: We were working on building a school, but in addition to that we toured all over Kenya, we went as far north west as Homa Bay on Lake Victoria.
2:41
[SPEAKER_02]: We went as far south east as Mambasa and Dianni Beach, where we got to see the Indian Ocean, and we went as far south as Masaimara and got to see some of the wildlife there.
2:54
[SPEAKER_02]: But while we were there on the southern border of Kenya, I got to see towering, often the distance, over the plains, the Serengetia of Tanzania, Kilimanjaro.
3:07
[SPEAKER_02]: Kilimanjaro is one of the seven summits, and it's the highest peak, of course, on the African continent.
3:14
[SPEAKER_02]: And I looked at it, and it wasn't in the cards for me to go further south, but I said someday I'll be back.
3:21
[SPEAKER_02]: Someday I want to climb you.
3:23
[SPEAKER_02]: But we met such amazing, delightful people, and I remember we were near Kisi, and at an acquaintance of ours there had invited a huge group of people to come and visit with us, and there was actually a line going out the hut and across the field of people that wanted to come to us, and they were asking us for things.
3:43
[SPEAKER_02]: they were asking for things that we generally couldn't provide, and it was kind of an awkward situation to be candid, but a man walked in and he had two young boys with him, and he held his sons and his arms with tears rolling down his face.
4:00
[SPEAKER_02]: and he pleaded with us to take his sons with us back to America, because he just felt like there wasn't any opportunity for them there.
4:09
[SPEAKER_02]: It was heartbreaking to have to say no that we couldn't that we didn't have a way to do that, but it planted a seed in my heart.
4:18
[SPEAKER_02]: There were many children all over Kenya who needed assistance in so many different ways.
4:24
[SPEAKER_02]: And since then, often matters
4:28
[SPEAKER_02]: the AIDS epidemic ended up killing both parents of many many families, and many children found themselves living on the streets alone.
4:37
[SPEAKER_02]: Also the conflicts in Sudan drove many children south in the Kenya and into other countries, because the children were being constricted into the armies where they were forced to commit atrocities in war.
4:52
[SPEAKER_02]: And so they escaped other countries
4:57
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, every child living on the streets, starving, struggling, every child has his or her own story to tell.
5:05
[SPEAKER_02]: They all have their reason, they all have the background, but it doesn't change the fact of where they are and what they need.
5:11
[SPEAKER_02]: And I recently found out about an organization that decided to do something about this in a big way.
5:19
[SPEAKER_02]: And the organization is called We See Hope.
5:22
[SPEAKER_02]: It is a humanitarian organization, originally out of the UK, but now they're also in the United States, and what they have done for many years now is raise money and go work with the local people in various African countries.
5:39
[SPEAKER_02]: And this organization finds these kids living on the streets, rescues them, they close them, they feed them, they educate them, and they give them entrepreneurial skills, skills that they can use to start companies and have real jobs.
5:56
[SPEAKER_02]: And believe it or not, this organization, we see hope, has already worked with over 800,000 people in Africa.
6:07
[SPEAKER_02]: It's an amazing thing that they've done rescuing children off the streets.
6:12
[SPEAKER_02]: And when I heard this story, I thought back to that father with tears rolling down his face.
6:17
[SPEAKER_02]: You could tell he loved his sons, but he also just didn't feel like he had a way to raise them where he was.
6:25
[SPEAKER_02]: That father that begged us to take his sons back with us, which was something we couldn't do.
6:31
[SPEAKER_02]: But we see hope is doing something better.
6:34
[SPEAKER_02]: We see hope is finding these kids and giving them a future.
6:39
[SPEAKER_02]: Now the founder of we see hope is Phil Wall.
6:45
[SPEAKER_02]: And I have hiked with Phil, and he's the real thing.
6:48
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm telling you, this man is genuine.
6:50
[SPEAKER_02]: His heart is as big as you can imagine.
6:54
[SPEAKER_02]: And his love for these children all across Africa is simply amazing.
6:59
[SPEAKER_02]: And he's also a big adventure in his own right.
7:02
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I...
7:03
[SPEAKER_02]: He did an expedition to the North Pole, among other things, and I'm going to have feel on the Adventure Sports podcast in the near future.
7:11
[SPEAKER_02]: And we're going to talk about all of his various adventures, but we're also going to talk about what he is doing with we see hope in Africa.
7:21
[SPEAKER_02]: So I've been saying the Adventure Sports podcast family has an opportunity to make a real
7:32
[SPEAKER_02]: A group of men have decided to climb Kilimanjaro and their calling this climbing for change 2026 and their each raising approximately $1 per foot of elevation and Kilimanjaro is
7:48
[SPEAKER_02]: That's $19,300 feet, but we're calling it $20,000, so each and every person going on this hike is raising $20,000, and the goal is for 15 of us to reach the summit, which
8:09
[SPEAKER_02]: and the goal is to reach more than 100,000 youth that are struggling to get by in five different African countries so that they have a chance at a healthy and positive outcome.
8:25
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think I need to tell you the horror stories of what happens to children that are living on the streets in the cities around Africa.
8:34
[SPEAKER_02]: Children without parents, children without protection.
8:37
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think I need to go there, but to know that Phil and Weecy hope is rescuing these kids mind blowing to me what they have accomplished and what they hope to continue to accomplish.
8:51
[SPEAKER_02]: So the big announcement is that after over 30 years of past, since I first saw Kiliman Jarrow and decided to climb it and said, I'll be back.
9:01
[SPEAKER_02]: I am going on this expedition, climbing for change, 2026, and yes, I'm raising $20,000 for the children in Africa.
9:12
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, $20,000, it's a big number to me, but it's also not that big of a number, why should we stop at 20?
9:20
[SPEAKER_02]: Why not?
9:21
[SPEAKER_02]: Why not 50?
9:22
[SPEAKER_02]: Why not 60?
9:23
[SPEAKER_02]: Here's the deal.
9:25
[SPEAKER_02]: There are thousands and thousands of us that are in the Adventure Sports podcast family.
9:30
[SPEAKER_02]: And I constantly say chase your dreams, chase your adventures, but do it in a way that makes a positive difference for the world.
9:39
[SPEAKER_02]: That's what this is about.
9:41
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, I'm not going to sit here and ask you to give money to me.
9:45
[SPEAKER_02]: That's not what this is about.
9:46
[SPEAKER_02]: Matter of fact, everyone is going to kill a manjaro on this climb as pain their own way.
9:51
[SPEAKER_02]: And all the money that's donated 100% of it goes to we see hope to help the kids.
9:57
[SPEAKER_02]: So this is about people that have decided to raise $20,000 each by climbing Kilimanjaro to draw attention to we see hope and I know that there are people out there in the audience who have a heart for this and they've been looking for the right opportunity.
10:15
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not going to sit here and ask you for money but I am going to say if you've been looking for a way to make a positive
10:26
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to put the link in the show notes so that you can click it and do what your heart guides you to do.
10:33
[SPEAKER_02]: But the link in case you're listening and you can't get to the show notes right now is charity.pledget.org slash.
10:44
[SPEAKER_02]: climbing for change.
10:46
[SPEAKER_02]: Let me say that again, charity.pledget.org slash climbing for change.
10:53
[SPEAKER_02]: When you get to the website, if you scroll down to the bottom, there will be a list of climbers that are going on the trip, and my name should be there too, and you can just click on
11:07
[SPEAKER_02]: And that way, the Adventure Sports Podcast family gets the credit for this.
11:11
[SPEAKER_02]: And of course, it's a tax deductible donation for you or for your company, however you decide to do that.
11:16
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I said, spend some time thinking about this.
11:19
[SPEAKER_02]: If you want to be a part of the Adventure Sports Podcast family who is making this difference in the world, then I'm going to say thank you to an advance.
11:27
[SPEAKER_02]: The trip is actually mid-January of 2026, so it's only a couple of months out now.
11:36
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think it would just be so amazing if the Adventure Sports podcast family raised not only $20,000, but why not $40,50, $60,000 to make it difference for these kids in Africa.
11:50
[SPEAKER_02]: We see hope is doing an amazing thing there, helping these children.
11:56
[SPEAKER_02]: And I am so pleased that I can be a part of it.
12:00
[SPEAKER_02]: So once again, the URL, the link is charity.pledget.org slash climbing for change that will be in the show notes.
12:11
[SPEAKER_02]: That's the big announcement I'm going to Kilimanjaro after 30 years of dreaming about it.
12:17
[SPEAKER_02]: But more importantly, I'm doing it to help these kids in Africa that I met there when I was there over 30 years ago.
12:26
[SPEAKER_02]: There's one more aspect of this that I think is kind of interesting.
12:30
[SPEAKER_02]: I said over 30 years ago, there are no spring chickens going on this trip.
12:35
[SPEAKER_02]: The men that are going to climb Kilimanjaro are, well, hovering around 60 and above.
12:41
[SPEAKER_02]: The youngest going on the trip is I believe 45, the oldest is in his early 70s, most of the crew are in their late 50s, 60s, so it's never too late to go chase your adventure, and it's never too late to make a big difference for the world.
12:59
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to take a recorder with me so of course I can interview all these guys as we climb and give you a bit of a play by play on what it's like to actually be there climbing Kilimanjaro and I'll make an episode out of that so I can in effect take you with me on the climb and you'll get to know the gentleman who are doing this climb.
13:19
[SPEAKER_02]: And as you may have guessed, we all have our own unique set of challenges.
13:25
[SPEAKER_02]: And when you get to be in your 60s, it's not as easy as it was in your 20s.
13:30
[SPEAKER_02]: So for instance, I have a injured foot that I've been going to a physical therapist for for the last few months, trying to get the foot strong enough to actually make it up the mountain.
13:42
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I think there's going to be a lot of guys helping guys get there one way or another.
13:48
[SPEAKER_02]: There's going to be a little bit of, I'll just call it old guy drama, but that's all a part of it.
13:53
[SPEAKER_02]: These are men who decided some of them against the odds to go for it and try to make a difference.
14:02
[SPEAKER_02]: I have Lisa Thompson with us, and Lisa's a remarkable woman.
14:07
[SPEAKER_02]: She was a corporate executive, but in 2009, she summited Rainier, and it seems like that was a bit of a turning point in her life, and she became just an avid mountain near at that point.
14:18
[SPEAKER_02]: She's done the seven summits on the seven continents, which we're going to talk about, but she is also an advocate for inclusivity in big mountain climbing or in mountaineering in general.
14:29
[SPEAKER_02]: trying to get greater variety and diversity of people involved, and we're going to talk about that.
14:34
[SPEAKER_02]: She also is the founder of Alpine Athletics, which helps to train people to be mountaineers, and she recently purchased a company called Mountain Madness, which is a guiding company.
14:46
[SPEAKER_02]: So she's the owner of that.
14:48
[SPEAKER_02]: Lisa, welcome to the program.
14:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks, Curtis, great to be here.
14:53
[SPEAKER_02]: I just barely hit a couple of highlights.
14:55
[SPEAKER_02]: Can you maybe give us the elevator version of Hulisa Thompson is with all of this stuff?
15:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I will definitely try.
15:02
[SPEAKER_01]: So I, you know, my passion is mountaineering and sharing the mountains and wild places with other people that has been very transformative for me.
15:12
[SPEAKER_01]: But I didn't grow up.
15:14
[SPEAKER_01]: dreaming about mountaineering.
15:16
[SPEAKER_01]: I wasn't even really very athletic.
15:18
[SPEAKER_01]: I grew up in Illinois in the middle of the country and my family, you know, wasn't very adventurous and it wasn't until I moved to Seattle for work in 2005 that I started to be aware of the mountains.
15:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Of course, you know, here the cascades and the Olympics are all around us and climbing and
15:41
[SPEAKER_01]: I would just say adventuring in general as a big part of the culture in Seattle.
15:45
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, you know, I, from the Midwest, walk into the office in Seattle and all of my peers would often climb on the weekends and they never asked me to go with them.
15:59
[SPEAKER_01]: And not that they were intentionally excluding me, but I think it just didn't occur to them that this girl from the Midwest would want to go climbing on the weekend.
16:09
[SPEAKER_02]: That's right.
16:10
[SPEAKER_01]: And so that of course frustrated me and at that point, you know, in my late 20s, I didn't have the courage to say to them like, hey, how about I join you some weekend?
16:23
[SPEAKER_01]: So I just got mad about it.
16:25
[SPEAKER_01]: And I decided I would go climb my own mountains.
16:29
[SPEAKER_01]: I have no idea, of course, with that meant.
16:32
[SPEAKER_01]: the highest point in my home state is a hundred feet above sea level.
16:36
[SPEAKER_01]: So I had no point in reference.
16:39
[SPEAKER_01]: And started hiking in the cascades, and I remember the first time I like went on a significant hike, which was called Mount Pilchak.
16:49
[SPEAKER_01]: I called my father in Illinois, and I was like, to had I just climbed a mountain.
16:53
[SPEAKER_01]: And of course it's like a two-hour hike or something, you know,
17:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Shortly after that, I climbed bringing air and, you know, there was something, I mean, you're exactly right, Kurt that that was a very pivotal point.
17:11
[SPEAKER_01]: in my life, because there was something about being on that climb that really just resonated with me.
17:17
[SPEAKER_01]: I loved the fact that I could work hard and accomplish something that at the beginning, I thought, there's no way I can do this.
17:26
[SPEAKER_01]: It took me two attempts to summit Rainier, and there was just something about this combination
17:39
[SPEAKER_01]: that really, really spoke to me and I knew I wanted to do more of it.
17:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, no idea that it would become my vocation and how I spent 90% of my time.
17:51
[SPEAKER_01]: But I remember descending rainier after somebody and, you know, of course, just full of excitement and, you know, adrenaline and I spoke to the guide and I said, like, what do I, what do I, what do I do, you know?
18:05
[SPEAKER_01]: And she said, well, there's this thing called the seven summits and I was like, great, I'll do it.
18:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Of course, I didn't know what that meant.
18:13
[SPEAKER_01]: I knew nothing about it.
18:15
[SPEAKER_01]: I had no friends that were mountaineers at that point, but very slowly started to just climb more in the cascades.
18:23
[SPEAKER_01]: I hired a coach and it became projects for me every year to start climbing.
18:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Of course, we'll get into where that led, but that was really the genesis of me starting to build my life around the mountains and adventuring.
18:38
[SPEAKER_02]: that's fascinating.
18:40
[SPEAKER_02]: To go from, okay, I climb my first 14er, I would assume, right?
18:45
[SPEAKER_02]: I climb my first 14er now.
18:46
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to do the seven summits.
18:49
[SPEAKER_01]: It was nice.
18:50
[SPEAKER_01]: I was just naive.
18:51
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, that's awesome.
18:54
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think part of that was born out of I had no point of reference.
18:58
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, I didn't, I was so new to this whole idea.
19:01
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't even know that I should pursue stepping stones on my way to doing that.
19:07
[SPEAKER_01]: I just was like, all in.
19:09
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, you know what?
19:10
[SPEAKER_02]: We probably have some new listeners out there who may not know what the seven summits are.
19:14
[SPEAKER_02]: So let's explain that.
19:16
[SPEAKER_02]: It would fill us in.
19:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so the seven summits?
19:20
[SPEAKER_01]: refer to the highest point on every continent.
19:24
[SPEAKER_01]: And in the 80s, a couple of mountainers thought it would be really cool to climb all of them.
19:30
[SPEAKER_01]: And so that just became this sort of goal or conquest for mountaineers to summon all of them.
19:37
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a little bit of controversy about what the definition of a continent.
19:42
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's actually eight of them, one in Australia, and one in Papua New Guinea, that people often
19:49
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, there's nothing, of course, that includes Everest, which I think is sort of the big, like, you know, when I go to dinner parties, people want to know if I've climbed Everest, not, and it's interesting me because there are so many mountains that are more difficult to climb, but there's obviously a lot of cachet associated with climbing the highest peak on earth.
20:09
[SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.
20:10
[SPEAKER_02]: And I tell you what impresses me far more even though Everest is impressive.
20:15
[SPEAKER_02]: You climbed K2.
20:17
[SPEAKER_02]: That's right.
20:17
[SPEAKER_02]: The bad boy.
20:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, which is why I want to say to that dinner party person when they're like, did you climb ever some like how did I climb this other mountain?
20:24
[SPEAKER_01]: It was like way more difficult.
20:26
[SPEAKER_01]: And they're like, yeah, but can you see any dead bodies on Everest?
20:28
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, okay.
20:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, just we'll go with this.
20:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, it does have, you know, the reputation.
20:35
[SPEAKER_02]: Everyone knows about Everest.
20:36
[SPEAKER_02]: And now it's been climbed enough times.
20:38
[SPEAKER_02]: It's, it's, it's, it's own social meme.
20:41
[SPEAKER_02]: So, but really, when you bring up K2, a lot of people know that K2, they've heard of it.
20:45
[SPEAKER_02]: There is a movie, K2, you know, we've had, we've had some exposure, but a lot of people don't realize what K2 is all about.
20:53
[SPEAKER_02]: So, tell us what is K2 all about.
20:56
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, to put it in perspective, you know, Everest is like high school football and K2 is like the Super Bowl.
21:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Like that's, you know, sort of to explain it in very layman's terms.
21:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Everest has of course been climbed for decades and it's become very commercial for right or wrong.
21:18
[SPEAKER_01]: That's, you know, sort of how most people approach that mountain.
21:22
[SPEAKER_01]: With that, commercialism comes also safety and a lot of knowledge, and that is made that mountain very accessible for people, price tag aside, but just considering the climbing itself, we figured out how to climb Everest pretty safely, and the success rate has continued to increase, and the number of fatalities has continued to decrease.
21:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Whereas K2, which is the second highest mountain in the world, is in Pakistan, it's on the border between Pakistan and China.
21:54
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's 28,251 feet, so just slightly shorter than Everest.
22:00
[SPEAKER_01]: For a long time, that difference in height led my family, again from the Midwest, to believe that that meant K2 was easier than Everest.
22:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yes.
22:09
[SPEAKER_01]: The highest mountain with the most difficulty.
22:15
[SPEAKER_01]: But K2, you know, where it is geographically is challenging.
22:20
[SPEAKER_01]: It's much more remote.
22:22
[SPEAKER_01]: There are commercial helicopter operations on Everest that will pick you up from very high on the mountain and whisk you off to safety that doesn't exist in Pakistan if, you know, you're
22:36
[SPEAKER_01]: the farthest you'll probably ever be from definitive health care if you need it, those helicopters are operated by the Pakistani Army.
22:44
[SPEAKER_01]: It's also just there's so much more objective hazard, so things like rock fall and avalanches on K2 than on Everest.
22:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, this year in particular because it was very dry in the care of corn range that K2 was in.
23:00
[SPEAKER_01]: There was just so much rock fall on me that the mountain very, very hazardous and it's all very few summits.
23:07
[SPEAKER_01]: So, it's all of those things combined to make K2 much more dangerous than climbing Everest.
23:16
[SPEAKER_02]: Wow.
23:16
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, Lisa, it's interesting.
23:18
[SPEAKER_02]: I remember I don't want to age myself because I'm only 23.
23:21
[SPEAKER_02]: It was over 30 years ago, but I remember, um, the statistic that was popular at the time was that if you try to climb Everest, then a lot of people didn't succeed, but those that summited a third of them died on the way down.
23:36
[SPEAKER_02]: That's whatever it used to be, but like you said, it's been figured out.
23:43
[SPEAKER_02]: right exactly right it's been figured out and it's much not that it any mountain like that is safe but it's it's much more doable than it once was but k2 just doesn't have that yet right it doesn't have that yet and
23:55
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, there's a part of me that doesn't want it to ever get to that level of really being tamed.
24:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
24:01
[SPEAKER_01]: I want it to remain wild and really challenging.
24:04
[SPEAKER_01]: It has gotten more popular in recent years and, you know, there've been some fatalities and, you know, very like well-publicized fatalities on that mountain.
24:16
[SPEAKER_01]: a lot more people are guiding it commercially than used to.
24:21
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it has changed in the past five years, certainly since I climbed it in 2018.
24:27
[SPEAKER_01]: But I don't know that it will ever be sort of as accessible as Everest and my vote would be that we still keep it sort of wild and austere and difficult.
24:38
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, this is a silly example.
24:40
[SPEAKER_02]: But one of the four teenagers in Colorado is beer stock.
24:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I've done that one.
24:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, congratulations.
24:47
[SPEAKER_02]: When I climbed beer stock the first time, it was a wild mountain.
24:52
[SPEAKER_02]: And there's the, I don't know how far it is.
24:54
[SPEAKER_02]: It feels like forever, probably a couple of miles of willow thickets that you had to find your way through.
25:00
[SPEAKER_02]: And there was no established trail.
25:02
[SPEAKER_02]: And it was easy to twist an ankle, stepping a hole up to your hip.
25:05
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, that kind of thing.
25:06
[SPEAKER_02]: It was wet.
25:08
[SPEAKER_02]: Matter of fact, people would carry two pairs of boots.
25:10
[SPEAKER_02]: One to get through the willows and then the other to put on so they could
25:14
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's not a difficult 14er, but everyone knew it because of the willows.
25:18
[SPEAKER_02]: And they felt like they accomplished something besides just climbing a tall mountain.
25:22
[SPEAKER_02]: And then the last time I saw it, they've created a boardwalk.
25:27
[SPEAKER_02]: So now you can just...
25:28
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, yeah, when I played.
25:31
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, years ago that's how it was.
25:33
[SPEAKER_02]: it's it's just like a river walk you can just get along on the boards and you're above the willows and and I thought oh wait a minute it's not it's not it's not really is interesting anymore but it probably is environmentally a little a little better right to keep people from trampling a thousand different paths but
25:53
[SPEAKER_02]: That does happen when a mountain is tamed, and a lot of the 14ers in Colorado have been tamed, and it's one of the reasons why I started climbing 13ers, because no one's there, and they are untamed.
26:06
[SPEAKER_02]: The other thing that's fascinating, and this is off topic, we'll be right back, folks.
26:09
[SPEAKER_02]: 58-14ers if you count them that way, but there are over 700 peaks above 13,000 feet.
26:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Ow!
26:19
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, climbing the 58-14ers is a definite accomplishment.
26:23
[SPEAKER_02]: But if you start doing the 13ers, they just go on and on and on.
26:27
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's kind of like you just illustrated.
26:29
[SPEAKER_02]: So we have Everest at 29 and some change.
26:31
[SPEAKER_02]: And we have K2 at 28 and some change.
26:34
[SPEAKER_02]: Talk about 1,000 feet.
26:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
26:36
[SPEAKER_02]: Not a real difference.
26:37
[SPEAKER_02]: When you climb a 13 or a lot of them are 39, I mean, they're the same experience.
26:43
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
26:44
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know why I'm pushing this.
26:46
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe it's to spread out the crowds a little bit.
26:49
[SPEAKER_02]: But I love the 13ers.
26:51
[SPEAKER_02]: But you need to know mountaineering because you're going to be finding your own route on a lot of them.
26:56
[SPEAKER_02]: They're they're often more precipitous because they've been weathered more.
27:00
[SPEAKER_02]: That's why they're shorter.
27:02
[SPEAKER_02]: and but they're amazing amazing peaks and anyway so that's kind of a paradigm to talk about you know you've been you've been doing climbs to 8,000 meter peaks and others and it seems like you've started moving towards some of the ones that aren't climbed as often.
27:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I definitely enjoy climbing sort of follow that analogy with 13ers versus 14ers a couple of years ago.
27:29
[SPEAKER_01]: I organized an expedition to climb Chalazzi in Nepal, which is just over 20,000 feet.
27:36
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's like it's a mountain no one is probably heard of, but it's a beautiful ridge line.
27:42
[SPEAKER_01]: It's maybe climbed two or three by two or three parties a season.
27:46
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, my team and I had to organize the logistics and the rope fixing and the transportation everything was on us together and we of course partnered with Nepalese outfitters to provide that support, but it was much different than just clicking book now on a website and sending a check-in.
28:05
[SPEAKER_01]: And that to me made it, that part of it was exciting, and also one of the reasons I love the mountains is because they've taught me so much.
28:14
[SPEAKER_01]: It really pushed me to understand how to organize an expedition, what goes into it, and all the little pieces that need to come together.
28:22
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the climbing itself, you know, we just, as we were descending into base camp, which is in a beautiful valley, one party was leaving.
28:35
[SPEAKER_01]: literally no one else was on it and we could look across the valley and see I'm gonna blow him in Everest and you know all these other very well known people think like there's hundreds of people on those peaks right now and we're you know this group of four sitting on this gorgeous ridge overlooking everything and that that will always be one of my favorite climbs I think because it was off the beaten path
29:03
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I think that that's where we kind of end up.
29:06
[SPEAKER_02]: My first 14er was Pike's Peak.
29:09
[SPEAKER_02]: The one that has a train to the top and a gift shop when you get up there.
29:14
[SPEAKER_02]: But from that early beginning, right?
29:18
[SPEAKER_02]: I started looking for more and more remote.
29:20
[SPEAKER_02]: And the funny thing, Lisa, I, I, this sounds bad, but this just me, it's my, my hang up.
29:26
[SPEAKER_02]: When I get to the top of a 14er and someone walks up to me and says, well, how many of you done?
29:31
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, I don't care.
29:33
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't even keep count.
29:36
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I finally the other day someone asked and I actually went to and check things off and I realized, well, I've summited more of the 14ers than there are 14ers, but I still not climbed them all, but the point of all of that is that it, okay, some people like to check lists, check boxes, they like to keep the numbers in the scores and I say more power to you, but that's not me.
29:57
[SPEAKER_02]: I am there for the experience.
29:59
[SPEAKER_02]: Like you just described, sitting on the peak for people.
30:03
[SPEAKER_02]: You have it all to yourself.
30:05
[SPEAKER_02]: You're looking at Everest and all of it to bomb and I'm like,
30:09
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
30:10
[SPEAKER_02]: So that, and here's the beautiful thing for people listening, you can choose it.
30:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Totally.
30:16
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's your to choose, and you can have your own motivations and do what you want to do, but mountaineering is such a wonderful sport.
30:27
[SPEAKER_02]: And for you, even a vocation.
30:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's amazing how that has happened.
30:32
[SPEAKER_01]: I remember, you know, I had a corporate job for a few decades, and,
30:38
[SPEAKER_01]: I remember even early on in my career thinking, like, this just isn't really me.
30:43
[SPEAKER_01]: But you know, I just sort of didn't know anything else.
30:46
[SPEAKER_01]: I put my nose down and kept working.
30:48
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, getting promoted, having more and more responsibility.
30:51
[SPEAKER_01]: The more responsibility I had, the less it felt like the right fit for me.
30:56
[SPEAKER_01]: And when I was preparing to climb in the Himalayas for the first time, I hired a mountaineering coach to help me get ready.
31:03
[SPEAKER_01]: And I remember thinking, man, his job is just so cool.
31:07
[SPEAKER_01]: He gets to work from anywhere and just help people get ready and talk about mountains all day.
31:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And so,
31:16
[SPEAKER_01]: When I was at K2 Base Camp in 2018, I sat down, I still had a corporate job, sat down with a notebook and a purple pen and rode out the idea for starting my own company to coach mountaineers.
31:30
[SPEAKER_01]: And so that company still is around today, called Alpine Athletics, and eventually I transitioned from that corporate environment to coaching full time.
31:40
[SPEAKER_01]: And what I didn't, I was drawn to it by,
31:45
[SPEAKER_01]: a couple of things.
31:46
[SPEAKER_01]: I love anatomy and physiology and sports and that stuff really resonated with me.
31:52
[SPEAKER_01]: But I also just liked the idea of working within the realm of mountaineering all the time.
32:00
[SPEAKER_01]: What I didn't realize in the beginning was how...
32:02
[SPEAKER_01]: much satisfaction I would get from working with someone who at the onset let's say they attempt in rainier and it didn't go well and they you know it's important for them to climb that peak to show their children what they're capable of and then working with them to understand what went wrong the first time why that mountain is important to them and then developing a plan to
32:30
[SPEAKER_01]: and seeing them, you know, give it their all and hopefully some it, that brings somewhere satisfaction to me to know that I play a role in helping someone achieve a goal that they will certainly remember forever and that
32:44
[SPEAKER_01]: probably change their life in some positive way.
32:47
[SPEAKER_01]: And so coaching has just been a very special thing for me and allows me to get to do that and unfortunate that Alpine athletics has grown.
32:56
[SPEAKER_01]: And I have a team of other coaches that get to do that.
33:00
[SPEAKER_01]: And that really led me to being able to buy mountain madness, the guiding company that you mentioned in the intro, which is just
33:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Even today, I've only owned the company for a couple of months now, and so it still hasn't fully sunk in that I've owned this iconic company that was started by Scott Fisher in 1984.
33:25
[SPEAKER_01]: sort of interesting process to get to this point.
33:31
[SPEAKER_01]: So in about 20, 20, I was, you know, still focused very heavily on growing alpine athletics, the coaching company.
33:40
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was driving in my neighborhood and I saw them out in Bandace office, which coincidentally is two miles from my house.
33:49
[SPEAKER_01]: And I thought, I should reach out to them, like, you know, I was really trying to network a lot and grow my business and I just kept putting it off because I didn't know anybody at Mountain Madness and I thought, like, if they don't take me seriously or, you know, I just put it off.
34:06
[SPEAKER_01]: And finally one night I sat down and just sent this email to the general inbox.
34:10
[SPEAKER_01]: and Mark the previous owner emailed me back right away.
34:14
[SPEAKER_01]: It was super gracious and excited to work together.
34:18
[SPEAKER_01]: And so a few weeks later I walked into the office.
34:21
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was sort of awkward because it was still COVID and like the chairs were in weird traces.
34:28
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, I thought chair looks too close to Mark and this chair's like too far away from him.
34:32
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I just sat down and the only thought in my mind was someday you're gonna own this company.
34:39
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was just like, that doesn't even make sense to be right now, and I just like put it to the side.
34:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I was like, I don't want to own a mountain guy company, that's just crazy.
34:49
[SPEAKER_01]: But I kept working with Mark.
34:52
[SPEAKER_01]: We had got to know each other well.
34:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Great working relationship.
34:56
[SPEAKER_01]: We would, you know, share clients and collaborate on different events.
35:00
[SPEAKER_01]: And eventually he was ready to retire.
35:02
[SPEAKER_01]: And I...
35:05
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, thought, there's no way I can buy this company.
35:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, that's just, you know, I have to get a big loan, and no one's gonna give me that much money.
35:13
[SPEAKER_01]: And I would even broker conversations with Mark to meet with other people who could potentially buy the company.
35:20
[SPEAKER_01]: And I eventually started to get really upset about those conversations.
35:24
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, I guess I want to do this.
35:28
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, you know, fast forward nine months later, we figured out how to make it work.
35:35
[SPEAKER_01]: It just feels like a very natural progression going back to what really gave me a lot of joy out of coaching and part of that is accessibility and just making the mountains more open to other people.
35:51
[SPEAKER_01]: And now through mountain madness, I get to do that on an even bigger scale with this company that has an incredible legacy.
36:01
[SPEAKER_01]: So, I...
36:02
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, going back to that climb on Rainier in 2005, sorry, 2009, there was, I would have laughed if someone would have said this is the path that your life is going to take.
36:13
[SPEAKER_01]: And now I can't imagine it being in the other way.
36:16
[SPEAKER_02]: Wow, I love that story.
36:19
[SPEAKER_02]: And here's why it just really strikes me.
36:23
[SPEAKER_02]: We don't know where the road will go when we start traveling down it often, but if you don't start, you never find out.
36:30
[SPEAKER_02]: So true.
36:32
[SPEAKER_02]: If you continue to do tomorrow, what you're doing today, then you know what your future's going to be.
36:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely, right.
36:39
[SPEAKER_02]: And for some people that's fantastic, they're like, well, I'm completely satisfied.
36:43
[SPEAKER_02]: I love that.
36:44
[SPEAKER_02]: That's beautiful.
36:45
[SPEAKER_02]: But for other people, they need to take the step.
36:48
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's crazy what you just said, you know, 2009, I submitted Rainier.
36:52
[SPEAKER_02]: I had no idea.
36:53
[SPEAKER_02]: I would end up owning Mountain Madness and coaching all of these people and have a guiding company and having done this seven summits.
37:00
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah.
37:01
[SPEAKER_02]: how cool you took the first step.
37:04
[SPEAKER_02]: No, you're a cancer survivor.
37:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
37:07
[SPEAKER_02]: So there's another challenge.
37:08
[SPEAKER_02]: Did that play into this?
37:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it did really in a big way.
37:12
[SPEAKER_01]: I think when I love to look back on my life and look for pivotal moments or points where dots were connected and you didn't realize it in the moment.
37:22
[SPEAKER_01]: And so cancer, I was 42 when I was diagnosed with cancer.
37:28
[SPEAKER_01]: It's been 10 years now.
37:30
[SPEAKER_01]: A cancer diagnosis was the last thing I thought at that stage of my life that I would have to deal with.
37:39
[SPEAKER_01]: I was, you know, consider myself an athlete and healthy and like you just don't even think that that could happen to you.
37:46
[SPEAKER_01]: And of course, at the time I was just confused and mad and devastated and all those emotions that anyone who's ever been diagnosed with cancer has felt.
37:57
[SPEAKER_01]: and I'm very fortunate to have, you know, caught it early and had exceptional health care and access to that health care.
38:05
[SPEAKER_01]: And shortly after being diagnosed in finishing treatment, I realized just how fragile our lives are and
38:16
[SPEAKER_01]: that I didn't want to spend another moment doing something that wasn't fulfilling to me, that wasn't involving people that I thought were uplifting and positive and added something to my life.
38:33
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I ended the marriage that I was in, I quit my job,
38:40
[SPEAKER_01]: not suggesting all those things, which is the list there's but this was the path I took and I really made a commitment to just focus on living a life that was very authentic and that and I knew that having, you know, the mountains and nature be a part of that was key to me and to being happy and I, you know,
39:05
[SPEAKER_01]: We had another corporate job temporarily and reconfirred that that's not the right place for me.
39:10
[SPEAKER_01]: But today when I look back on cancer and I know this sounds crazy, especially if someone's going through cancer right now.
39:20
[SPEAKER_01]: But I just have so much gratitude for that experience in my life because it's
39:26
[SPEAKER_01]: It helped me really stay true to who I am and what's important to me.
39:31
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think if I hadn't had that sort of like gut check that I probably would have continued you know in a corporate job for me, which for me was pretty miserable.
39:42
[SPEAKER_01]: And that my life would have been much less fulfilling.
39:46
[SPEAKER_01]: So I love to look back on things that seem
39:49
[SPEAKER_01]: horrible in the moment and then when you have some perspective and you can see a little more runway after that bad experience to say like oh actually this was the right thing for me I just needed some time to see it such wisdom like that soak for a minute
40:06
[SPEAKER_02]: I love the idea of good coming from challenges or from even from bad experiences, the good that can grow out of that and I've met so many people, Lisa, who just have had really, really rough struggles, really major challenges in life that overcame it and now their powerhouses amazing, amazing people because instead of taking on the victim mentality, they decided to go make something.
40:32
[SPEAKER_02]: of life.
40:33
[SPEAKER_02]: And they pursued it and they learned the lessons and now they're just so strong and congratulations.
40:40
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you know, ten years.
40:42
[SPEAKER_01]: That's fantastic.
40:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's hard to believe it's been that long.
40:46
[SPEAKER_01]: And also, I'm just grateful for the opportunity that created for me, the perspective that cancer created for me because I really think my life would have been much
41:01
[SPEAKER_01]: a lot just a new copy.
41:02
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, that would be great.
41:04
[SPEAKER_02]: It's called finding elevation and it is about K2, but it also I think includes some of this cancer story, right?
41:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I really talks about, you know, my matriculation as a fledgling mountaineer as a, you know, woman from the Midwest and how mountains became more and more important to me and how that was really challenged by cancer.
41:26
[SPEAKER_01]: I really felt like, you know, mountains at that point had become part of my identity and I felt like cancer threatened to take that away from me.
41:34
[SPEAKER_01]: And I also, in the beginning, would climb to prove things.
41:40
[SPEAKER_01]: If someone doubted me, or said I shouldn't do something, that was a really big motivation for me to prove them wrong.
41:47
[SPEAKER_01]: And early on, mountains were very demonstrative, right?
41:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I did this.
41:54
[SPEAKER_01]: People can look at that peak and look at you, and like, you can't take that away from me that I accomplished standing on top of there, and I'm proud of how I climbed,
42:04
[SPEAKER_01]: and eventually, and this coincided with having cancer, I really took a look at everything that mountains in nature had taught me and realized that it wasn't about proving anything anymore, that it was about the lessons and the growth and the, you know, personal understanding that came from challenging myself in the mountains.
42:28
[SPEAKER_01]: And
42:29
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't really gain that perspective until after I climbed K2 and was fortunate to go back to Pakistan in 2019 and not with an intention to climb anything but just to look at K2 and be grateful for everything that that mountain really had.
42:46
[SPEAKER_01]: not only given me, but taking away from me like this need to have to be perfect and prove something all.
42:52
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I was going to ask you what your why is.
42:55
[SPEAKER_02]: You just told us what your why was and how it changed, so you kind of answered the question, but I love it.
43:02
[SPEAKER_02]: And I've talked to a lot of people with that question who say in the beginning they were trying to prove something to themselves or to someone else or I wanted to be tough enough want to be big enough.
43:11
[SPEAKER_02]: But what happens often is people transition, right?
43:15
[SPEAKER_02]: And it turns into know there's a deeper reason that is my why now.
43:20
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think about my own life, I've not done any of the amazing mountains that you've done or anything like that.
43:26
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, but I remember
43:28
[SPEAKER_02]: And I got to the top and I was sick and helped the dude sickness and I was exhausted and and I said, well, I never have to do this again.
43:40
[SPEAKER_02]: so typical right right it's exactly it and of course six months later found me climbing more mountains and um I lived in Oklahoma at the time so it was a little hard to just keep going but all of that said I I ended up loving it so much that I I can no longer even name all the mountains that I've climbed and when I did them and when they used to be a big event now it's like hey you want to do this tomorrow let's go.
44:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Totally
44:05
[SPEAKER_02]: It just turns into a lifestyle that is so rewarding, but do you have a current why?
44:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I totally agree with you, Kurt, that my why and probably everyone's why has changed.
44:17
[SPEAKER_01]: It was early on wanting to prove people wrong, and then it was, you know, I want to prove to myself that I'm still strong after cancer.
44:24
[SPEAKER_01]: And now it's really about making the mountains more accessible to other people.
44:30
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, my biggest focus now in that regard is towards, you know, creating opportunities for women to climb and creating beginner or, you know, easy, early pathways for people to start to explore the mountains as well as, like, putting together all women's expeditions to climb on the blob.
44:49
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, the satisfaction that I get out of that is just incredibly rewarding to like, you know, the summer I think I climbed four or five peaks in the cascades as part of all women's groups and to see, you know, a woman who and many of the women who join me are cancer survivors.
45:13
[SPEAKER_01]: So to see them, you know, finishing treatment.
45:16
[SPEAKER_01]: and standing on the top of Mount Saint Helen's or Mount Adams in the cascades and just so totally overwhelmed with their accomplishment is just an incredible feeling.
45:28
[SPEAKER_01]: very often the women's exhibitions that I put together have some sort of philanthropic emphasis as well and so supporting other cancer survivors through our climbs or supporting women's education in Nepal and seeing what for me, you know, mountaineering
45:48
[SPEAKER_01]: can be, I think, rightly so, a very selfish pursuit, and so to turn that into something that is benefiting someone else, especially women in Nepal or Tanzania, is just
46:01
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's incredible and that for me, you know, is why I keep going back and why I keep doing it.
46:07
[SPEAKER_02]: That's beautiful.
46:08
[SPEAKER_02]: It's interesting.
46:09
[SPEAKER_02]: I've questioned, so you and I before we hit record, we talked a little bit about this.
46:13
[SPEAKER_02]: On top of the 14ers, I've seen a lot of women.
46:18
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not 50, 50, but there are a lot of women.
46:21
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
46:22
[SPEAKER_02]: I, of course, it seems like they're more men for some reason.
46:25
[SPEAKER_02]: And I've questioned, well, I don't really understand why.
46:28
[SPEAKER_02]: No one's saying you can't climb, but maybe it's a, there's a perception perhaps that this is a man's sport and I'm trying to do the man's sport and I don't think that's necessary.
46:39
[SPEAKER_02]: That's kind of a ridiculous way to look at it.
46:43
[SPEAKER_02]: But give us some perspective on that as an amazing astounding world class female climber.
46:51
[SPEAKER_02]: Can you open the door for other women a little bit here?
46:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think, and I've thought about this a lot and I've thought about how can I make it easier, how can I, you know, make the jump to climbing any mountain easier for people, and more accessible and easier to learn.
47:10
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that, you know, when we all want to be around people who we think understand us, we think get us.
47:17
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what makes us feel like we're part of
47:23
[SPEAKER_01]: environment or any group.
47:25
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think when you, you know, watch a climbing movie or go to a meet up at your local mountaineering club and you see a bunch of white guys and you're a, you know, an Asian woman, you're like, I don't think they're going to understand me and that's a totally fair assessment and it, and I have often let that create some like,
47:48
[SPEAKER_01]: angst or pressure for me, and I've made a lot of assumptions from the perspective of being the only woman about like, you know, those guys are going to give me a hard time or they don't want me to be here.
47:59
[SPEAKER_01]: And I've also learned that that's sometimes true, but that's the exception that very often people do want to understand and welcome.
48:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think making,
48:11
[SPEAKER_01]: the on-ramp to that easier and simpler for people is part of my next goal in life.
48:21
[SPEAKER_01]: I also think that it's important to create spaces where people feel safe to be themselves.
48:28
[SPEAKER_01]: And I've been on expeditions before as the only woman where it just the comments, the jokes, the photos that were being passed around didn't make me feel
48:40
[SPEAKER_01]: calling that out.
48:41
[SPEAKER_01]: I think is also important and saying like, hey, like we're all on this team together and, you know, what's going on right now is not really comfortable for me.
48:51
[SPEAKER_01]: And it took me a long time to have enough courage and of being a voice to say that.
49:00
[SPEAKER_01]: And my hope is that, you know, people realize that
49:04
[SPEAKER_01]: the sort of vibe we're putting out in a group setting and how that might come across to other people and work to make it inclusive for everybody else.
49:14
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I want, as an aside, just to address the physical differences a little bit because I've had the pleasure of interviewing so many female climbers and especially technical rock climbers.
49:25
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah.
49:26
[SPEAKER_02]: And people like to say, well, women aren't as strong.
49:29
[SPEAKER_02]: No, that's not true.
49:31
[SPEAKER_02]: That is so ridiculous.
49:33
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, the strength to wait ratio of these female clients.
49:36
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
49:37
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, man.
49:38
[SPEAKER_02]: Amazing.
49:40
[SPEAKER_02]: Amazing.
49:41
[SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, you don't have to be six feet tall to do amazing things.
49:45
[SPEAKER_02]: No.
49:46
[SPEAKER_02]: It's such a misnomer.
49:47
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know where that stuff comes from.
49:49
[SPEAKER_02]: I just want to say for all the ladies out there, um, you might even have an advantage.
49:54
[SPEAKER_02]: You might even have an advantage.
49:55
[SPEAKER_02]: You can do it, but you had a company that trained people so that they could do it better Yes, I and I was curious about that I must forgot to ask the question if someone says I could never do that or you kidding me, right?
50:08
[SPEAKER_02]: What is your response to that?
50:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh my gosh, so I love digging into this question with people because I really want to know where that comes from, like, where does that belief that you can't do something right?
50:21
[SPEAKER_01]: What's the genesis of that?
50:22
[SPEAKER_01]: And really working with people on that level to understand, like, why do you believe you can't?
50:29
[SPEAKER_01]: And often it's because they haven't seen other people who they, you know, align with doing something and so being able to show like,
50:37
[SPEAKER_01]: there are incredible women or people with disabilities or people of color doing these things and you know I just the thought that you can't do something like I want to eradicate that from people's beliefs because it's so it's not true and I think often we just haven't been shown the way we haven't been guided or we haven't really analyzed why that is and why we believe that
51:03
[SPEAKER_01]: and being able to overcome that is just, it unlocks so many things for people's lives.
51:08
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, another, this is kind of a parallel thought to what you just said.
51:12
[SPEAKER_02]: I've been so blessed to talk to so many amazing people like you.
51:16
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just been really, really fun for me.
51:19
[SPEAKER_02]: But one thing that I've gathered is that sometimes people need an audacious goal.
51:25
[SPEAKER_02]: to get out of the hole that they are in, you know, and it has to be one of these, I don't think I could do that goals.
51:33
[SPEAKER_02]: And visited with cancer survivors, especially, it's like, well, I'm trying to beat cancer.
51:38
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, now you're just thinking about having cancer all the time.
51:40
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's sometimes you need a bigger goal.
51:42
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, yeah, I'm going to be cancer, but I'm going to go climb.
51:47
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to go track.
51:48
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to go do the thing that I never thought I could do.
51:54
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's
51:55
[SPEAKER_02]: And having that dream, you know, gives you something to hope for it's everything and I just really want to encourage people out there to dream a bigger dream.
52:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
52:07
[SPEAKER_01]: I was fortunate to coach a woman who summoned an Everest when she was 17.
52:11
[SPEAKER_01]: And when I started coaching when she was 15 and I thought, oh, I don't know how this is going to go.
52:19
[SPEAKER_01]: I remember when I was 15.
52:21
[SPEAKER_01]: And she, she of course is incredibly articulate and focused and driven.
52:26
[SPEAKER_01]: And
52:26
[SPEAKER_01]: And kind, and I was talking to her after she summoned Everest, and she said, someone else had told her this, but I'll attribute the quote to her, that if your goal isn't scary, it's not big enough.
52:40
[SPEAKER_01]: And I thought, wow, she's this girl who's 17, I'm 52, telling me something that, like it's so true in life, that we need something, it doesn't have to be climbing Everest.
52:56
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, showing up in a mountaineering club or like.
52:59
[SPEAKER_01]: just exploring nature in a part of the world that you're curious about.
53:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, any of those things, if they're big goals, they can get us through like you said, Kurt, those difficult times in our life, but also they're so broadening and expanding and just teach us so much about what we're capable of, that I find we keep like, what's in this can be bad too, but what's the next thing, right?
53:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I just learned so much about when I'm capable of
53:28
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was so much more than I thought, how do I keep that going so that I keep growing and expanding?
53:34
[SPEAKER_02]: Hmm, what would you say to the person?
53:38
[SPEAKER_02]: Excuse me, what would you say to the person who they have a fitness challenge?
53:42
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll just put it that way.
53:43
[SPEAKER_02]: And they think, well, this sounds great, but you know, and I think what can happen, Lisa, is they hear about someone who's doing the amazing big thing and it seems so far out of reach.
53:58
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think maybe choosing an appropriate goal that's just as much of a challenge for wherever you are in life, it takes you to that next level and then you can choose the next goal, but since you have helped people train for all of these things, what recommendations do you have?
54:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so my advice is to pick something that's challenging that scares you just a little bit, and if that feels like,
54:25
[SPEAKER_01]: a multi-year goal, a multi-step goal, then think about what are the skills or experiences or mindset shifts that I need for that big audacious goal and how can I start to develop those skills or work on those things with something that's a little bit smaller and never losing sight like I will put a picture I put a picture of K2 years before I climbed it on the treadmill
54:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, what I need some experience on really unstable rock.
54:59
[SPEAKER_01]: How am I going to get that?
55:00
[SPEAKER_01]: And it, and I, you know, need to go on an expedition and all these things I need to work on to be ready for that big goal.
55:08
[SPEAKER_01]: And as I was doing those other little things, yes, those became stepping stones, but I was doing them so I could sum it K2.
55:16
[SPEAKER_01]: And I looked at it as one continuous project, not as these separate, you know, this is a mountain I'm gonna climb and then I'm gonna go climb this mountain.
55:27
[SPEAKER_01]: I was climbing all those mountains so that someday I could climb K2.
55:31
[SPEAKER_01]: So never losing sight of that big goal that scares you just a little bit.
55:36
[SPEAKER_02]: Wow.
55:37
[SPEAKER_02]: I love it.
55:37
[SPEAKER_02]: I love it.
55:38
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm going to throw on top of that.
55:40
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe compare yourself to others a little less.
55:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
55:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for saying that.
55:45
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's so.
55:47
[SPEAKER_01]: true and, you know, we, you know, take a typical commercial climb or expedition, right?
55:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
55:56
[SPEAKER_01]: All human nature, we meet the team for the first time, we're sizing each other up, we're thinking, this person's going to be, we, this person looks strong, this person is whatever, and it's not about that.
56:09
[SPEAKER_01]: as hard as it is to try to not think that way, it's really about you and that goal, or you and that mountain, or you and that trail.
56:18
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not about what anyone else is doing.
56:20
[SPEAKER_01]: And I've seen so many people get caught up on competing or trying to prove something to other people.
56:27
[SPEAKER_01]: And at the end of the day that doesn't matter, you're not gonna come home and be like, yeah, but I made it to camp too faster than my teammates.
56:36
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not who cares.
56:40
[SPEAKER_01]: What you're going to remember is the experience you had along the way and what you learned about yourself and other people and just being in these beautiful natural places.
56:50
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, and I've interviewed a lot of people as well, who they want to do something in a way that no one's ever done it before, so they can be a first or they want to do it faster, or they want to do it, and I am not opposed to that at all, sometimes it's really fun, but at the end of the day, as soon as you do it a new way, someone's going to come along and do it that way faster than you did, and I mean, it
57:10
[SPEAKER_02]: If your goal is to be the best, well, that's fantastic.
57:15
[SPEAKER_02]: You just understand someone else is going to replace that very quickly.
57:18
[SPEAKER_02]: And those goals can be motivating, but especially for people who are just getting started.
57:25
[SPEAKER_02]: I want to say,
57:26
[SPEAKER_02]: when you reach a goal, a personal challenge, that for other people who've been doing it for years and years and years, you know, if you start comparing yourself to them, then you'll get down yourself about your accomplishment.
57:39
[SPEAKER_02]: But that's not the way to think of it.
57:41
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, no, I did this.
57:43
[SPEAKER_02]: This is my thing, that was hard, and I didn't think I could, and I did it.
57:48
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, and if you lean into that and celebrate all those little accomplishments along the way, then it'll get easier to do bigger and bigger things, but you don't even have to.
58:00
[SPEAKER_02]: I just enjoy it.
58:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and the reward I think is so much greater when it's something that you're doing for you as opposed to trying to beat someone else or do something for the first time.
58:16
[SPEAKER_01]: The reward is so much sweeter when it's something that's important to me.
58:20
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to shift gears just a little bit.
58:22
[SPEAKER_02]: We haven't told a lot of stories.
58:23
[SPEAKER_02]: We gave a lot of information about how and why and, you know, tell us stories about climbing.
58:30
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll let you choose the peak and the experience, but something that stood out to you.
58:35
[SPEAKER_02]: And I used to ask this question, tell us when something didn't go as planned, when something really bad happened, but I'll let you decide, maybe it's something glorious that happened.
58:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I will, this summer I had, I'll say the fortune, but it was a pretty big suffer fest of climbing Rainier in one push, and it was something that I tried to do many times and just didn't come together for it.
58:59
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, whatever reason.
59:01
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, um, the first time I submitted Raynear, I remember getting to like 12,500 feet and the guide coming over to me and saying, like, he could sort of wind down the line of people.
59:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, you know, you need to turn around or you need to take better care of yourself.
59:19
[SPEAKER_01]: He had some little bit of advice and some of it wasn't great.
59:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, there were people he'd like sent back down.
59:24
[SPEAKER_01]: And he came to me and, of course, I'm like, oh my god, he's gonna turn me around.
59:28
[SPEAKER_01]: He's gonna turn me around.
59:29
[SPEAKER_01]: and he was like, you're going to the top and I was like, and it was one of the first times that I really felt capable that I really felt like seeing and understood and that I had really accomplished something.
59:45
[SPEAKER_01]: And so then this summer being able to go back, gosh, almost 20 years later, and summit that mountain in one push as a 52 year old woman, I will also say with a 25 year old guy, so like someone had my age.
1:00:04
[SPEAKER_01]: It was super, super rewarding.
1:00:06
[SPEAKER_01]: And to think about it, it was a very full circle moment, this summer because I just thought about the first time I'd even,
1:00:15
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, for those of you not familiar with Matt Rainier, there's a sort of a popular point on the mountain called Camp Meir, named after John Meir, and above that, you have to have a permit to climb.
1:00:27
[SPEAKER_01]: And so many people go to Camp Meir just as a day outing.
1:00:31
[SPEAKER_01]: And so to think about everything that I had learned in the past 18 years about climbing from like, that first,
1:00:40
[SPEAKER_01]: climb I had this ridiculously heavy purple backpack.
1:00:44
[SPEAKER_01]: I probably had like a full jar of peanut butter in it.
1:00:48
[SPEAKER_01]: You know like just a hair dryer like dumb thing.
1:00:53
[SPEAKER_01]: I had no idea.
1:00:55
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you know now to get up there and you know half the time and then have the strength and energy and knowledge
1:01:10
[SPEAKER_01]: rewarding full kind of connecting all the dots experience for me and it's important I think to do that.
1:01:18
[SPEAKER_01]: I had another moment like that on K2 where you know in 2018 I didn't know for sure that I was going to sum it of course.
1:01:30
[SPEAKER_01]: I wasn't confident when I left my house and
1:01:34
[SPEAKER_01]: that I had what it took, that goal still felt very big and very scary.
1:01:39
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I remember going to the airport to fly to Pakistan and telling myself that I was just going to do my best and I wasn't going to climb above my ability.
1:01:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Like those were the two things and whatever else happened,
1:01:56
[SPEAKER_01]: was fine.
1:01:57
[SPEAKER_01]: But as long as I stayed true to those two promises to myself, I would be happy with whatever outcome.
1:02:03
[SPEAKER_01]: And of course I was, you know, incredibly fortunate that things worked out and the weather was good and the team was strong and we made the right decisions and we summed it and came back down safely.
1:02:13
[SPEAKER_01]: And the next summer I was asked to guide some women to cater to base camp.
1:02:21
[SPEAKER_01]: So instantly you said yes because I was happy to be going back to the caracorum and there's a moment on the track where you get to a place called concordia and you you turn to the left
1:02:33
[SPEAKER_01]: and you see K2 for the first time.
1:02:35
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, you're sort of in this like amphitheater of big mountains for most of that track.
1:02:44
[SPEAKER_01]: And you're like, how these are huge stunning pristine peaks.
1:02:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Then you turn, you're like, holy shit.
1:02:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Hey, okay, I'm gonna walk from here to there and back in no way.
1:02:56
[SPEAKER_01]: And I remember that moment in 2019 the year after I submitted, and I was fortunate to be with some of the Pakistanis and the Nepalese climbers that I had summoned in with and standing there and just looking at that mountain and being so overwhelmed and grateful for not just the fact that everything was safe, but like everything that I had learned.
1:03:21
[SPEAKER_01]: in the past year and getting ready to climb K2.
1:03:25
[SPEAKER_01]: And so those full circle moments are really special for me.
1:03:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Mmm, very important.
1:03:33
[SPEAKER_02]: That's neat.
1:03:33
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I think you're the first person to answer that type of question that way.
1:03:38
[SPEAKER_02]: It's the full circle moments.
1:03:40
[SPEAKER_02]: I love that.
1:03:41
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
1:03:41
[SPEAKER_02]: And I can see that too.
1:03:43
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that matters.
1:03:45
[SPEAKER_02]: So in your own life, I mean, you're very, very accomplished now.
1:03:48
[SPEAKER_02]: How did it change you as a person and even your own perception of yourself to have done these things?
1:03:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's still sometimes, you know, when I speak often in corporate settings and when someone comes up to me after and they say, you're so inspiring, I feel like, like, no, I'm just me.
1:04:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and so I'm still not 100% comfortable with that because it feels very weird, but I'm also
1:04:25
[SPEAKER_01]: to show people what's possible.
1:04:27
[SPEAKER_01]: And what I will say to people is that we all have that opportunity.
1:04:32
[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't just come with writing a book or standing on a stage or a climbing a really difficult mountain, like in our circles, in our, you know, work life, interactions with children, whatever it is, like we all have that capability.
1:04:48
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think
1:04:50
[SPEAKER_01]: I forget that sometimes, and I'm sure we all do, from time to time, we get bogged down in our own stuff, and we forget that we have this opportunity to positively impact and inspire other people.
1:05:01
[SPEAKER_02]: I love that.
1:05:02
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that's a perfect place to wrap up, too.
1:05:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Perfect.
1:05:06
[SPEAKER_02]: That was wonderful.
1:05:06
[SPEAKER_02]: Lisa, thank you so much for your time, and for sharing all of this, and my pleasure.
1:05:11
[SPEAKER_02]: But let's go over all the, how to find you.
1:05:14
[SPEAKER_02]: So the book is Finding Elevation.
1:05:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Amazon?
1:05:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the book is my website.
1:05:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, any place where you buy a book.
1:05:22
[SPEAKER_02]: And you have multiple websites.
1:05:24
[SPEAKER_02]: We have Lisa Climes.com, and you have Alpine Athletics.net, and then what about mountain medins?
1:05:32
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it's mountainmanus.com.
1:05:34
[SPEAKER_02]: .com, okay, and what did I miss?
1:05:37
[SPEAKER_01]: That's it, that's enough website.
1:05:40
[SPEAKER_01]: You can also keep track of me on Instagram, which is Lisa Climes.
1:05:43
[SPEAKER_01]: It's basically those same name, Lisa Climes, Mount Madness, and I'll find out about it.
1:05:49
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, that's great.
1:05:49
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, thank you very much for inspiring us.
1:05:53
[SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, there's so many, it almost gets tried.
1:05:56
[SPEAKER_02]: There's so many paradigms about climbing mountains, but I just want to say, I think you would agree with this.
1:06:01
[SPEAKER_02]: It's the real deal.
1:06:02
[SPEAKER_02]: When you've done a couple, you're like, no, it's not tried.
1:06:06
[SPEAKER_02]: It changes you, and it's worth it.
1:06:09
[SPEAKER_01]: It does.
1:06:09
[SPEAKER_01]: There's so, you're right, there's a million parallels, but it is so worth getting out there and experiencing it and just seeing what happened.
1:06:17
[SPEAKER_02]: fantastic.
1:06:18
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, thanks again and for all the listeners out there.
1:06:21
[SPEAKER_02]: I love this.
1:06:21
[SPEAKER_02]: I love Mount Nearing, of course, but I find your own mountain and it may not even be a mountain, but whatever it is, get out there and have some fun.