Latest / Voddie Baucham Sermons / Voddie Baucham - TS&TT Make Disciples Obeying God's Mandate

Transcript

Voddie Baucham - TS&TT Make Disciples Obeying God's Mandate · Voddie Baucham Sermons

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Thank you for joining us for this episode of The
• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Sword and the Trial today. Today, Pastor Tom and Dr.
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Bodie Bachman and I talk about our upcoming conference taking
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: place in January of this next year. It's on making disciples,
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: the dominion mandate and the great commission.
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: It's a good conversation.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: It's been helpful for me and clarifying for me and
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: how these two different mandates and commissions relate to one
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: another for us in Christ in the church. Take a listen.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: Welcome to The Sword in the Trowel. The Sword in
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: the Trowel is a podcast of Founders Ministries, and Founders
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: exists for the recovery of the gospel and the reformation
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: of local churches. I'm Graham Gundin.
• 0:35
  Speaker 3: I'm Tom Askell.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: And today, this episode is brought to you by the
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: Miller's Grove Soap Company and Lake Yale Baptist Conference Center. Today,
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: Pastor Tom and I have on with us our dear friend,
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: Votie Bauckham. Welcome, Votie, to the podcast. And today, we
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: want to talk about the upcoming conference in January, and
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: specifically the theme of the conference, which is Make Disciples,
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: God's Mandate from the Home to the Ends of the Earth.
• 1:00
  Speaker 3: January 22 through 24, 2026, right here in sunny southwest Florida.
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: I say that every year.
• 1:06
  Speaker 3: In the last couple of years, it's rained, but it's
• 1:08
  Speaker 3: still better than being in Pennsylvania or New York or
• 1:11
  Speaker 3: something like that in January. Yeah, this is a big theme,
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: and it's a theme, I think, that's made a lot
• 1:16
  Speaker 3: of people nervous. In fact, whenever we released the first
• 1:19
  Speaker 3: little– trailer on it, you know, good guys are saying, oh,
• 1:23
  Speaker 3: wait a minute, wait a minute, you know, don't be
• 1:25
  Speaker 3: talking about bringing in the kingdom of God by fulfilling
• 1:28
  Speaker 3: the cultural mandate. So, buddy, you've spent a lot of
• 1:31
  Speaker 3: time thinking about these things. You've been involved in cultural
• 1:34
  Speaker 3: apologetics for years. So are you nervous about this theme?
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: No, no, not at all. I wrote a whole trilogy
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: of books on, you know, this theme. I think it's
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: incredibly important. And I think it's where the rubber meets
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: the road. When you start talking about what's happening out
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: there in culture and where the culture is going, where
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: the world is going, I find it ironic that the
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: people who are nervous about the idea of us working
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: for cultural influence are not nervous about the idea of
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: the culture working its influence on us. I mean, because
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: essentially influence is going to happen. And so we have
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: to decide, are we going to live within this culture
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: that is actively working to impart a worldview on us
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: and the coming generations and simply be passive about it?
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: Or are we going to make sure that we do
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: our job to impart a biblical worldview on us and
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: coming generations and do it intentionally in a way that
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: that makes them aware of and opposed to the worldview
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: that the culture is trying to impart. To me, I
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: can't comprehend why that would make anyone nervous.
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I think some people are nervous about, oh no,
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: if we give vent to what some have taken, or
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: at least some have emphasized in the cultural mandate, that
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: it's just building, it's bringing in the kingdom of God
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: through our efforts. And if we get enough Christian businesses
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: and the right kind of politics and the right kind
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: of education, then this is going to bring in the
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: kingdom of God. And so I get that. But I
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: don't know if I know anybody who's actually saying that.
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: I think some people hear that whenever folks talk about, hey,
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: we need to be involved in politics and culture. And
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: the fact that we are Christian and that we're called
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: to make disciples is not an afterthought and it's not
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: set aside in trying to take seriously what God said
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: to Adam in the Garden of Eden. And I'm preaching
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: through Genesis, and so I spent a lot of time
• 3:48
  Speaker 3: in Genesis 1 and 2 recently over the last few months.
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: And it was helpful for me to try to wrap
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: my mind around it. And I don't know, I'm not
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: finished with this, but what would it look like? What
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: would it look like if Adam had successfully done what
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: God commissioned him to do in Genesis 1, 26 through 28?
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: So do the earth. and exercise dominion over every living thing.
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: What would that have looked like? Well, it wouldn't have
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: been a sterile kind of operation in the world. It
• 4:24
  Speaker 3: would have been a garden. It would have been a temple,
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: making the world a temple, I think, which would include
• 4:31
  Speaker 3: the internal realities of being rightly related to God, which
• 4:34
  Speaker 3: he was before sin.
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: Being a priest.
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah. So that's been, I think if we can get
• 4:39
  Speaker 3: clear in our mind, what was it that God did?
• 4:42
  Speaker 3: had in mind for Adam in giving him that original
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: mandate and then take that and carefully identify what it
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: is Jesus said in the great commission that maybe we
• 4:55
  Speaker 3: can have a meeting of the minds and not talk
• 4:56
  Speaker 3: past one another.
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I think the other thing too is a lot
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: of people act like, you know, you either live as though, um,
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: the fall happened and then all bets were off. Um,
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: Jesus came so that he could save us, but just
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: keep us from going to hell so that one day,
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: one day, you know, we could see his rule and
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: his reign, right? And that we shouldn't do anything in
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: the here and the now in order to prepare for that,
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: in order to act as though we really believe that,
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: in order to act as though it is important. It's
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: what we yearn for. It's what we long for. If
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: that's what we yearn for and what we long for,
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: then we live like it. That doesn't mean that we
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: believe we're ushering in the totality of it in the
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: here and the now, right? It's that already not yet tension.
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: And I think the other thing is people are not
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: giving us credit. There are different camps out there eschatologically
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: that lead to different views of this. And there is
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: that sort of theonomic post-millennial reconstructionist ideology, that's not us.
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: We're more in the Amil camp, you know, optimistic. Speak
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: for yourself. That more optimistic Amil, you know, maybe historic pre-mill.
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: But we're in that camp. And so it's always interesting
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: to me is that, you know, whenever you start talking
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: about anything in this regard, people take all the assumptions, right,
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: of this– You know, one particular idea. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: You say one word that exists in a Gary North book,
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: and all of a sudden, that's what you're trying to do.
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: But that's no more true than us believing that, you know,
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: God has called us to, you know, raise up and
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: disciple our children somehow makes us... Paedo-Baptist, right? That's right.
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: We're Baptist. We hold on to those convictions even when
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: we start talking about our children and our future and
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: so on and so forth. So I think people are,
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: they're not being gracious, right? They're not being gracious enough
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: to say, these guys have told us who they are.
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: If they're doing this conference, they're doing it.
• 7:23
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: Consistent with who they are. So it would be foolish
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: to think that what they're doing is something that they're not. Yeah. Amen.
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: So I think the two things here that the conference
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: is focusing on then, you know, the title is Make Disciples.
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: And so one would think, okay, this is a conference
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: on missions. And it is a conference on missions. It's
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: a conference on the Great Commission, but it's also a
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: conference on the cultural or the dominion mandate. So Genesis 1,
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: Matthew 28, and seeing these things together. Not that they're
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: exactly the same thing, but that Christians in the New
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: Covenant have to really see them as two different mandates
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: for us, the cultural mandate and the Great Commission. And
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: one of the things that's helpful for me as I
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: think through this is we're commanded by Christ to go
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: and to disciple the nations. What does it look like
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: for a nation to be discipled? If we think about
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: missions as fulfilling the Great Commission in discipling the nations,
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: we often think of going into a foreign field, And
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: proclaiming the gospel where the gospel has not been proclaimed,
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: planting churches where the churches have not been planted. And
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: yes and amen, we want to see that. We want
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: to work to support that. We want to be involved
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: in that ourselves. But is that the entirety of, you know,
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: if there's a church planted in an unreached language group,
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: has the Great Commission then been fulfilled for that people?
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: I would say that, you know, even just ask the question.
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: Is our people group discipled? Is our nation discipled?
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: And I like to put the question this way, right?
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: Having participated in cross-cultural ministry in a setting like that. Okay,
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: so we go from here to there and we do
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: the work of missions and we plant churches among people
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: where there hasn't been a church. Here's the question I
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: like to ask people. Then what do they do?
• 9:13
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: What do they do? Do they continue to live exactly
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: as they did before the gospel got there? Do they
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: continue to live their lives in their pagan culture with
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: their pagan worldview? Do they continue to practice their polygamy
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: or child sacrifice or anything? Like, what do they do?
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: And if your answer is anything other than they begin
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: to allow the truth of the gospel, the presence of
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: the Holy Spirit in their lives, the power of Christ
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: and the word of God, to then transform them and
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: transform the way that they live? If your answer's anything
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: other than that, I'm worried about your concept of missions.
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: There are few mercies greater than sacred spaces set apart
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: for the soul's refreshment. At Lake Yale Baptist Conference Center,
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: pastors find rest through sabbaticals, youth and children grow through camps,
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: and churches gather for ministry events that strengthen the body
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: of Christ. In a world full of noise, Lake Yale
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: creates space to connect with God, with others, and with
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: the mission. Lake Yale Baptist Conference Center.
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: Connect here.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: Learn more at lybcc.com. That's lybcc.com.
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: I want to invite you to join us here in
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: Southwest Florida, January 22nd through 24th, 2026, as we host
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: our annual Founders Conference. This year, the theme will be
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: Make Disciples God's Mandate from the Home to the Ends
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: of the Earth. This is an important topic, and we've
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: got wonderful speakers coming in to address this theme from
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: various angles. And the cost of the conference will increase.
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: The price of the tickets go up at the end
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: of September. So if you're thinking about coming, I encourage
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: you to go ahead and make your reservations and join us.
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: We do anticipate the conference selling out as well. If
• 10:59
  Speaker 3: you'd like more information, you go to founders.org and just
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: look under the events there and learn more about it.
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: And it has to, it has to transform their culture.
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: Has to.
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: There's no, if it's not transforming their culture, then it's
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: not real for them.
• 11:15
  Speaker 3: You know, I'm working on an article and also preparing
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: for my talk in January at the conference. And there's
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: someone I'm probably going to quote. He's a well-known guy
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: in kind of our broader circles who says, you can't
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: transform culture because you can't transform something that's dead. And,
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: you know, it's a clever little statement. I think there's
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: so many assumptions in it that are just won't hold
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: up to biblical examination. Because there seems to me to
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: be this disjointed reading of the Bible. And so, yeah,
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: you've got the cultural mandate over here, but you've got
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: the Great Commission over here. You've got the Great Commandment
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: and the Second Great Commandment. And they all have their
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: place and people have like they champion one or the
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: other of them. You can't do that. You can't do that.
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: I mean, did God give Adam a mission? Absolutely he did.
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: What was that mission? That's what we need to focus on.
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: And then what What does it look like, as you said,
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: what does it look like to disciple the nations? You know,
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: there's a, I don't have finished thoughts on this. God willing,
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: by January, I'll have clearer thoughts on it. But the
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: phrase that became popularized with John Piper, and he was
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: following Ralph Winter, I think, in this, of what does
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: ponte ta ethne, all the nations, what does that mean? Well,
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: now we've assumed, and he's popularized that, It means people groups,
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: you know, linguistic, cultural, distinctive people groups. And I'm not
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: sure that that's the way we ought to be thinking
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: about it. I'm not sure that's the way it is
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: used in the New Testament. And again, I'm in the
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: middle of this. I'm not finished my thinking on it.
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: But when you see the way Jesus used it, the
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: way the apostles used it, there seems to be this
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: greater understanding of that which is not Israel.
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: You know, the other that is not Israel, the Ephesians 2.
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: The barrier has been broken down between the Jew and Gentile.
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: And if that's the case, then the more comprehensive nature
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: of the commission fits easier than just, hey, we've got
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: 10 people from this unreached people group that are converted.
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: Let's go to the next one.
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: Let's go to the next one, which has informed a
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: lot of missiology over the last 40 years, 50 years.
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: We've got the Bible in this language. We've got somebody
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: who knows how to read it. Let's go. That's right.
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: And so, you know, the church planning movements, you know,
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: all of this disciple making movements have been fueled by
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: that thinking. Now, again, I'm not saying there's nothing to it,
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: but I believe we need to be more careful and
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: diligent in trying to really sort out in a biblical
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: theological way. What was God's vision for Adam? What did
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: he want Adam to understand when he gave him his mission?
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: And what does that, how does that fit into what
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: Jesus wants his disciples to understand when he gives us
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: the great commission? How does that relate to the great commandment?
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: How does that relate to everything we see going on
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: from old to new Testament today?
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: I think if you look at it from like a
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: macro level for Adam, you know, all that God had
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: commanded Adam, you know, be fruitful, multiply, take dominion, fill
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: the earth. What Adam was to do, he was to
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: expand the borders of Eden, expand the borders of the
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: temple of Eden to the whole globe and to fill that,
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: that temple then with priests, his own descendants, Adam failed
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: in that. And, Everything that Adam fails in, Christ succeeds in.
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: And so Christ will one day transform the earth into
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: the new heavens and the new earth.
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: It will be a new Jerusalem.
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: It will be a temple full of a royal priesthood
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: who are worshiping God in the earth in a very
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: physical temporal way too in the new heavens and the
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: new earth. Um, so do we then fulfill what Adam
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: was given? No, we can't, we didn't have ourselves can't
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: do that. Only Christ can do that. But that doesn't
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: mean that there's nothing there in the dominion mandate or
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: in the cultural mandate that is for us. I mean,
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: we see it restated again in somewhat different terms in
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: Genesis nine, as God gives Noah, basically again, the, the mandate,
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: the dominion mandate, the cultural mandate to be fruitful and
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: multiply the fear of the beasts. That's the means by
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: which you will take dominion. And even in Genesis 9,
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: God assumes things from that cultural mandate given to Adam
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: that continues to be true for Noah. He says, as
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: I already gave you dominion over every plant. Speaking to Noah,
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: I already gave it to you. When did God give
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: it to Noah? He gave it to Noah in Adam.
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: And so as Noah still has that same kind of
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: cultural dominion mandate through Adam, so then also all of us,
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: all we descendants of Adam and Noah have that same thing. Now,
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: can we perfectly fulfill it? Absolutely not. Christ can fulfill it.
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: But Christ works to fulfill that in some sense in
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: his people, in his church. Christ, our head, through his body,
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: works in this world in bringing his dominion and building culture.
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: And as long as God's people are committed to being
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: his disciples, it's going to affect culture. Whether you want
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: it to be the intentional or the priority or whatever
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: it is, it's got to happen. As you say, you
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: look at other cultures, and when the gospel comes to
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: those cultures, it radically transforms those cultures.
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And all of the cultures that we now look
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: at in terms of the developed world, in terms of
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: what we refer to as the West, these are cultures
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: that have been impacted and transformed by the gospel and
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: by the Reformation, right? You know, that's the difference between
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: the developed world and the undeveloped world. It's the fruit
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: of the gospel. But I was thinking, as you were
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: talking about that, we can't even pray rightly. I talked
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: about this at a missions conference recently. When Jesus teaches
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: us to pray, right? And you look at, you know,
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: the catechism, especially when it comes to the petitions and
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: the Lord's Prayer. Well, what's the first petition? You know,
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: our Father in heaven, right? Our Father, not my Father.
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: Jesus didn't teach me to pray my Father in heaven.
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: He taught me to pray our Father in heaven. That's expansive, right?
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: I don't want to just proclaim God to be my Father.
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: I don't want God to just be my Father. I
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: want to acknowledge that God is our Father, and I
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: want all people to acknowledge God as their Father. Our
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: Father in heaven, hallowed be your name. I want his
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: name to be hallowed, not just from my lips and
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: in my life, but all people's lives, all people's lives, right?
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: And then what do we pray? Your kingdom come, your
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Now,
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: if people are nervous about us, they ought to be
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: nervous about that, right? If they're nervous about us, you know,
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: sort of pointing this thing in a kind of direction,
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: and there's this, you know, impact out there, what do
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: those people do with the Lord's prayer? Because those first
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: three petitions are kingdom-minded and expansive, right? You can't even
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: pray the way the Lord taught you without being kingdom-minded
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: and expansive. My desire is that Christ would have the
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: fullness of the reward for which he died.
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: Amen.
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: Right? Amen. And so I don't... I don't limit that.
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: I'm not afraid that there might be too much Christian influence.
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: I'm not afraid that there might be too much lordship
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: of Christ, right, in my life, in my family, in
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: my community. I'm not afraid that I'll get to a
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: point and I'll go, wait a minute, this is looking
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: too influenced by Jesus here. You know, let's dial it
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: back some. I'm not worried about that.
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: So the question is then, I mean, the way that
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: we conduct business, the way that we go about educating
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: our children, the way that we govern ourselves politically, the
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: way that we produce fine arts or even common arts,
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: are those things then, does the kingdom of God have
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: something to say about those things? Are those things then,
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: as Christians, and we're seeking God's will to be done
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: in the way that I do my business, in the
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: way that we govern ourselves politically, Does the kingdom of
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: God then shine through those things as God's people are
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: engaged in those things?
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: It has to. It has to. I mean, what area
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: of life would we say, no, God wouldn't be interested
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: in that, right? We're just, no, there's not that, you know?
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: And even when you talk about education. And for me,
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: this has always been a big piece of this puzzle.
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: I remember when it just kind of just dawned on me.
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: It's Luke 640. A pupil is not above his teacher,
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: but everyone when he's fully trained will be like his teacher.
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: The Bible says nothing about education. The Bible says much
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: about it. discipleship, right? It's always been understood that we
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: have a responsibility to disciple the next generation. The way
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: we think about education is informed by a model of
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: education that is government oriented, right?
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: It's the commercialization of discipleship. We're still committed to this
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: idea that children come into this world and they have
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: to be shaped, they have to be formed, they have
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: to be molded. We've just gone from the idea that
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: God gives us primarily families and churches that are doing
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: this shaping and this molding to now the idea that
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: God primarily gives us government institutions to do this molding, right?
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: And then we look back on the scriptures and we
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: read that in, which is why people get uncomfortable when
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: we talk about things like Christian education or when we
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: talk about the problems that we have with government education.
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: I mean, people get really nervous when you start talking
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: about that, right? But it has to do with this
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: sort of upside down reading of the world the way
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: that God gave it to us.
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: Are you looking for healthy bath and body products that
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: are made by a family who unashamedly fears the Lord
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: and seeks to build the kingdom? Well, Miller's Grove soap
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: makes handcrafted soaps and balms.
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: For the whole family.
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: They only use quality oils and butters and grass-fed beef tallow,
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: essential oils, and other good gifts from God's good creation
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: in their luxurious bath products. So stop using harmful products
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: from godless corporations and be a good steward of the
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: body that God has given you. Visit themillersgrove.com today and
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: see their spectacular lineup of soap and other products.
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: That's millersgrove.com.
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: Listeners to The Sword and Trial, can use code FOUNDERS
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: at checkout for a 10% discount on your first purchase. Remember,
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: life is short, fear God, build his kingdom, and use
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: the good soap, which is Miller's Grove Soap.
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: I'm excited to introduce to you our newest children's resource.
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: It's the 1689 in rhyme, Old Truth for Young Hearts,
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: by our very own Carrie Regnier. Children can understand more
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: than we often think that they can, and that's why
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: it's important to teach them early and often the basic
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: truths of the faith. Kerry has produced a wonderful tool
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: to help parents and grandparents to do just that. His rhymes,
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: or raps if you prefer, are great for both young
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: and old to internalize, memorize, and meditate on the truths
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: of our great Baptist confession. He has helpfully summarized each chapter,
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: maintaining the rich theology in each, yet he has also
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: simplified each chapter in ways that even a three-year-old can grasp.
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: Plant timeless truths in young minds. Grab your copy of
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: the 1689 in rhyme today at press.founders.org.
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: You know, you think about the Lord's Prayer and 1
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: Timothy 2, prayer for kings, those in authority, that we
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: might live quiet, peaceful lives with dignity and reverence. If
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: we pray for something, should we not try to use
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: whatever God's put in our hands to work for that
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: as well? I mean, it just seems like sometimes this
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: misguided notion of piety says, no, no, it's hands off
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: over there. Let's pray for kings and those in authority.
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: But let's don't try to become kings and those in authority.
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah. You know, not to date this, but didn't we
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: just see that debate with the school shooting in Minnesota? Absolutely.
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: With the people who are like, yeah, thoughts and prayers.
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: You know, you guys want thoughts and prayers. And what
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: we want is we want actions. That's that same idea, right?
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: That somehow saying that we're committed to praying about something
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: is tantamount to saying we're committed to not acting on something, right?
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: To just sitting there passively and waiting and hoping that,
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: you know, that something happens. That's not biblical.
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: No, it's not. And, you know, you see in that too,
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: everybody runs to their gods in crisis.
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: And so... the godless run to the government.
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: We need to do something. We need laws.
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: We need legislators to do something. Stop your little prayers
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: over there. Christians can't be duped by that.
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: You know what? I was thinking about this as well.
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: I think that's part of our problem also with the
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: people who get nervous about this. Go back to the
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: education thing, right? Education, that's a function of the government.
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: Everything is a function of the government. So if your
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: kingdom is the government, right, If the government is responsible
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: for morality, if the government is responsible for, you know,
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: fill in the blank, right? All of that stuff. Well,
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: then anytime Christians start talking about having an impact in
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: any way, your assumption is always going to be that
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: they are trying to take over the levers of government.
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: Right. If government is the only means by which we
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: believe that these things happen and people start talking about
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: doing ABC and XYZ, then what they have to mean
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: is taking over the levers of power in the government. Well,
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: that's that's. That's actually, you know, you're deflecting there. I mean,
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: you're projecting, actually. That's projection, you know? No, you believe
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: that the government has all power and all authority, which
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: is why you believe anytime we want to talk about
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: any of these things, we have to be trying to
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: take the government and make it do it for us.
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: We don't believe that. We don't believe that the government
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: has all power and all authority. Therefore, we do not
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: believe that having... Impact in a culture requires that we
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: take over the levers of power in the government.
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: But I'll take it.
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: And here's a question that has made people nervous as well,
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: is do you believe that governors, kings, presidents have an
• 25:59
  Speaker 3: obligation to do Jesus's will on earth?
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: Oh, no, no, no.
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: They're thinking exactly the same way there. No, absolutely they do.
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: They absolutely do. It's just Jesus' will for the king
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: is different than Jesus' will for the church. And you
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: just understand that. They've got a lane, and Jesus calls
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: the governors to stay in their lane to do their
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: job as one that has been given authority by him
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: to do it.
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, these things are— Sphere sovereignty, man. Sphere sovereignty.
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: And to go back to the educational issue, this has
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: been my thing— You know, for decades, there's a sphere
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: sovereignty problem. When you look at the spheres and then
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: you look at what education is, we've got the wrong
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: sphere being sovereign over education. That's right. Right? The one
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: sphere that education wasn't given to is the sphere that's
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: not exercising sovereignty over education. Yeah. That's upside down. You know,
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: it's interesting.
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: I think of a, okay, a nation that is discipled.
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: I don't think there's any nation going to be completely
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: discipled before the return of Christ, but let's just say,
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: you know, a discipled nation, what would that look like?
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: I think in a discipled nation, there is a symbiosis
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: and a, um, a way in which both the civil
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: magistrate and the church work together. Both of them are
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: under the Lordship of Christ. Both of them have two different, um,
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: roles to play to different, um, but they work.
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: Together in honoring the Lord.
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: Many of the reformers citing Isaiah talked about the civil
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: magistrate or the government being like a nursing father to
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: the church. And that doesn't mean that the state is
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: out there to excommunicate people or control the worship of
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: the church or anything like that. But even so, there's
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: kind of a symbiosis there in a discipled nation where
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: the gospel has really taken root where You see it
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: not only in the church, but then also in people
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: as they go about their days, and then also the
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: way in which people organize together in governmental bodies. Yeah,
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: I mean, you would want to see that in a government,
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: a Christian nation.
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: And we have seen that in the West.
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: We have seen that.
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: One of the things I find fascinating is to compare
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: North America to South America. Same kind of resources. You
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: could argue South America has far greater natural resources than
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: North America. Why the difference? Why so many third world
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: kinds of cultures in South America? Because Roman Catholicism went
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: to South America. Protestants came to North America.
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: Northern Europe, Southern Europe. Same thing. Western Europe, Eastern Europe.
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: With Northern Europe and Southern Europe, you got Roman Catholicism
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: in the South and the Protestant Reformation in the North.
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: Western Europe, Protestant Reformation, Eastern Europe, Communism. Yeah. And there's
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: a huge difference, you know, even in those cultures. Um,
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: This is going to be controversial. I've said it before
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: and I'll say it again. One of the things that
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: was just mind boggling to me living in Africa for
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: a decade was the majority of Africans that I ran
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: into were absolutely convinced of the superiority of white people
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: and would argue you down. They would look at you
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: like you were crazy if you didn't believe that white
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: people were superior to black people. And they say things like, well,
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: just look at the world. You know, just look at
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: the world. Look at where black people are. Look at
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: where white people are. And what are you talking about?
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: You know, and oftentimes with our students, we would have
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: these discussions with our students. And one of the things
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: that sort of helped them, you would see the aha
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: moment when you would go Western Europe, Eastern Europe, Northern Europe,
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: Southern Europe. What's the common denominator, right? Like you just
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: did North American side. What's the common denominator? And their
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: eyes would just get like saucers and they'd be like,
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: wait a minute. Wait a minute. It's worldview. It's the
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: Protestant Reformation. It's the fruit of... This movement of God.
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: That's the ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. And here's why
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: it was so liberating. Because if it's a black and
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: white thing, there's no hope. But if it's a worldview
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: thing and a kingdom advancement thing, then these people absolutely
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: have access to the same thing that bore fruit there. Absolutely.
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: And, you know, you see it with some of our
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: Baptist heroes. I think about Adoniram Judson, William Carey.
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: What happened?
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: What happened in India when William Carey went there to Serampore?
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: He preached the gospel, took seven years for the first convert,
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: established a church. Other churches came. But he translated the
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: scriptures into multiple dialects and languages. Adoniram Judson, same thing
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: in Burma. And the culture changed. people change, which are
• 30:45
  Speaker 3: going to, if we fulfill the Great Commission, it's going
• 30:47
  Speaker 3: to happen because we teach them to observe all the
• 30:50
  Speaker 3: things that Christ has commanded us.
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: Are you a single Christian looking for a Christian spouse? Well,
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: look no further. Founders Ministries is holding our second annual
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: singles event at the Founders National Conference. I know many
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: of you have had not the greatest, I won't say luck,
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: maybe not the greatest providence in maybe your local churches
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: or on Christian dating sites. But the Founders National Conference
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: is a great place to come and see where there
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: are other Christian singles and get to know them. And
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: so that's why we're doing this event. And we're going
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: to continue to do this event, give you an opportunity
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: to meet some of these Christian singles. The event is
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: during the Founders Conference on January 22nd. You can go
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: to the Founders Ministries page, go to founders.org slash conference
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: to register for this event. And if you're interested in registering,
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: make sure you do sooner rather than later. Last year
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: we sold out. We sold out very quickly, and we
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: had lots of people reaching out to us, wishing that
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: they could register, but there was no room. So please,
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: if you intend to come to this event, register as
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: soon as the page is live, and we would love
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: to see you there.
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: We are well underway in our first semester at Founders Seminary,
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: and we couldn't be more delighted and thankful to the
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: Lord for all that He has done. Under the leadership
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: of Dr. Votie Bauckham and his presidency, And with the
• 32:10
  Speaker 3: wonderful input and guidance of Dr. Peter Sammons, we are
• 32:14
  Speaker 3: seeing men trained with sharp minds, warm hearts, and steel spines.
• 32:18
  Speaker 3: Registration is now open. Applications are now being accepted for
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: the spring 2026 semesters. Let me encourage you to go
• 32:26
  Speaker 3: to foundersseminary.org and apply today for training here at Founders Seminary.
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: That reminds me, what's the book, The Book That Created
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: Your World? Is that the title? Oh, yeah, by the Indian. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: You know, less people think that, you know, this is
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: somehow something that we're just making up or we're only
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: talking about it from a Western perspective or whatever. You know,
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: you've got, I wish I could remember the author's name
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: right now. But I was incredibly encouraged by that because
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: it's the same point, right? That he's driving home there,
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: that it's worldview. It's worldview, and it makes a difference.
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: And I think one of the sinister things about what
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: we've seen with all of this talk about white supremacy
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: and all of this woke era that we've just come
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: through is that it's reduced everything to race and ethnicity.
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: And if you reduce everything to race and ethnicity, then
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: you don't get to the bottom of things like we're
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: talking about here.
• 33:29
  Speaker 3: That's right.
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: Right? Right. And there's actually no hope.
• 33:33
  Speaker 3: No, that's right.
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: You keep people divided.
• 33:34
  Speaker 3: You keep people stirred up because.
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: There is no hope. Yeah.
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: So the subtitle to this conference is God's Mandate from
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: the Home to the Ends of the Earth. So, I mean,
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: what does the home have to do with the Great Commission?
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: What does the home have to do with the cultural mandate?
• 33:51
  Speaker 3: Again, it's all connected because God had a purpose. Jonathan
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: Edwards' book is a fascinating book, The End for Which
• 33:59
  Speaker 3: God Created the World. I think that fits in here.
• 34:01
  Speaker 3: That could be like an overlay of the theme of
• 34:03
  Speaker 3: this conference is that God had and has a telos
• 34:07
  Speaker 3: in mind when he created the world, when he commissioned Adam,
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: and when he sent Christ to fulfill everything that Adam
• 34:14
  Speaker 3: did not fulfill. It's not like God's changed his mind.
• 34:17
  Speaker 3: It's not like we're on plan B. No, it's going
• 34:19
  Speaker 3: to happen. And it's going to happen now because God
• 34:23
  Speaker 3: himself has undertaken to do it. And he has provided
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: everything necessary. And we receive it. We benefit from it.
• 34:28
  Speaker 3: but we participate in it and we bear witness to it.
• 34:31
  Speaker 3: I mean, our transformed lives bear witness to it. And
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: then as we love God and love our neighbor, we're
• 34:37
  Speaker 3: putting on display the very power of this mandate given
• 34:44
  Speaker 3: to make disciples of the whole world. We say we
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: are disciples of the Lord Jesus and look at how
• 34:49
  Speaker 3: we seek to fulfill his will, seek to have his
• 34:52
  Speaker 3: kingdom come and things being done here as it is
• 34:54
  Speaker 3: in heaven.
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: So, you know, there's an indispensable part of the family
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: when it comes to both of these mandates.
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: When it comes to the Great Commission, when it comes
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: to the cultural mandate, these things don't happen without families. And,
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: you know, Tom, you and I were talking about the
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: Westminster Confession in Chapter 24. The Second London Baptist Confession
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: is different. It takes this part out. And I think
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: rightly so. I don't disagree with that choice at all.
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: But at the same time, the part that it takes out,
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't have been upset had they left it in.
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: So I'm going to read it, and I want you
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: to know I'm not a paedo-baptist, okay? But this is
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: chapter 24. Here we go. Chapter 24, paragraph 2 on marriage.
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: It says, So marriage is ordained for the church, for
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: the increase of the church with the holy seat. Now,
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: I agree with that statement. I don't agree with it
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: in the way that a paedo-baptist means it. The paedo-baptist
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: means that any children of believers is.
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: The church is comprised of believers and their company of children.
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: So I don't agree with that. But at the same time,
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: one of the most ordinary, most common ways in which
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: Christ adds to his people is through the children of believers,
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: converting the children of believers. Children who have grown up
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: in the home and have been discipled and have been
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: evangelized grow up and they enter into the church.
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: North of 80% of all Christians... heard the gospel and
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: faith through the influence of their family. I mean, it's just, yeah.
• 36:34
  Speaker 3: It's 1 Corinthians 7, 14. Doesn't mean what our Paedo-Baptist
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: friends try to make it mean.
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: It means something. You know, it's in the Bible.
• 36:40
  Speaker 3: And so you can't be embarrassed by that language.
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: So there's, I mean, you cannot obviously fulfill the dominion
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: mandate without children, without the home, because that's part of
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: what the dominion mandate is to be fruitful and multiply.
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: And this is given again in Genesis 9 to Noah.
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: But there's also a sense in which the Great Commission
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: can't be fulfilled, or at least ordinarily is not fulfilled
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: without the family as well.
• 37:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you take away the cultural mandate for a generation.
• 37:07
  Speaker 3: If you just did away with it completely for a generation,
• 37:10
  Speaker 3: it's over. It's over.
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: It wouldn't happen. Even just from a logistical standpoint, if
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: you're going to go, let's go back to that unreached
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: people group again, right? If we want to go to
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: this unreached people group, and effectively reach this unreached people
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: group logistically, strategically, we're going to work through families. Because
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: if we connect with this guy, then we connect to
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: everybody who's connected to this guy, right? We connect to
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: him and to his household, and then we connect to
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: this guy. We connect to everybody who's connected. It just works.
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: It makes sense just from a logistical standpoint. Yeah, and
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: even John 4, what happens? The Galilean official, he believes,
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: and then what does the text say? His whole household
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: believes with him. And you see this in the household
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: baptisms of Acts. Again, our paedo-baptist brothers want to say, well,
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: just because the head of the home was baptized, that
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: means necessarily all the rest had to be baptized. No,
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: I think.
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: John 4 gives us precedent to say, well, because the
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: head of the household believed, all the rest of the
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: household believed along with him. Again, that is the ordinary
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: means by which God saves people is through the proclamation
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: of the gospel, coming to families and the family together,
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: grasping the gospel.
• 38:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well, this is going to be a very important conference.
• 38:25
  Speaker 3: I think the requirements that will go into all the
• 38:29
  Speaker 3: speakers preparing to address this issue will bear fruit in
• 38:33
  Speaker 3: the folks that gather. And we hope to advance the
• 38:37
  Speaker 3: conversation and to maybe uncover some things that have been
• 38:40
  Speaker 3: covered up over the last couple of generations, especially among Baptists.
• 38:43
  Speaker 3: We need to catch up on some of this, and
• 38:45
  Speaker 3: we need to avoid some of the detours that our
• 38:47
  Speaker 3: Pato Baptist friends, some of them, have gone down in
• 38:50
  Speaker 3: order to try to understand and apply rightly what the
• 38:54
  Speaker 3: Bible says about our purpose, the purpose for which we
• 38:57
  Speaker 3: are in this world. By the way, the conference registration,
• 39:01
  Speaker 3: I think there's still a discount going on until the
• 39:04
  Speaker 3: end of September. And so if you have an opportunity,
• 39:06
  Speaker 3: we encourage you to come and register for this and
• 39:09
  Speaker 3: take advantage of the discount before the end of September.
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: And speaking of Papato Baptist friends, one of the speakers
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: at the conference is going to be Joel Beeky. So
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: maybe we can help each other out.
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: That's right. Yeah.
• 39:19
  Speaker 3: Joel has a lot to teach me.
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: I'll just say that.
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: That's right. But you two men will be speaking at
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: the conference. Joel Beeky will be there, David Schrock, Alex Kokman,
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: Dusty Devers, and then also our friend Butch Wilmore, who
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: was lost in space for what, nine months?
• 39:35
  Speaker 3: Nine months, yeah.
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: So a great person to speak, especially on the Dominion mandate,
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: one who has taken Dominion even out into outer space.
• 39:42
  Speaker 3: That's right. Yeah, that's right.
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: So it's going to be a wonderful time. Make sure
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: you get onto the website, founders.org slash conferences to register
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: for that. I'm looking forward to sunny Southwest Florida.
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: In January.
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: In January, as we say every year and Lord willing,
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: he will grant our prayer here as well. But thank
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: you all for joining us for this conversation today. If
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: it's been a helpful conversation for you, like and subscribe
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: and share on all the different platforms that you listen
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: to or watch your podcasts. And we will see you
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: all next week.