Latest / Skin Anarchy / The Landscape Of “Luxury” Indie Beauty Ft. Lorne Lucree, MBA of Atelier By Voyant Beauty

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The Landscape Of “Luxury” Indie Beauty Ft. Lorne Lucree, MBA of Atelier By Voyant Beauty · Skin Anarchy

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• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: This episode is brought to you by KPMG.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: At KPMG, innovation is the go-to state of mind.
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  SPEAKER_02: To explore their thinking, go to KPMG.us, and I have a wonderful guest today.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so excited to be speaking with him.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_02: It is really, really rare for me to get to interview people who can tell me more about like just how indie beauty is growing and just understanding, you know, what is this landscape all about.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_02: So without further ado, I want to introduce you guys to Lauren Lucree, who is the chief innovation officer at Voyant Beauty, which is the largest beauty and personal care contract manufacturer in North America.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_02: So without further ado, uh welcome.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_02: Lauren, I'm so excited.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much for having me, Act.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_03: I'm so excited.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_03: You're this is my first podcast ever that I've spoken.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_03: But I've been listening to you for ages.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_03: So it's really, it's great to be it's sweet to be invited.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_02: Oh no, it's it's such an honor to host you.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_02: I'm really excited to learn all about you and really what you do and um you know, for you to educate me about the this landscape, like I was t you know, saying in the intro.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_02: So to get started, can you give us a little background on yourself and your career and just how everything kind of landed with Voyant Beauty and um just you know where it all began?
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, totally.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_03: So uh I actually originally began my career in uh out of school working in advertising uh on toilet paper, actually on Charmin.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_03: So we've all got to start somewhere.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_03: Uh but that really was like uh that to me was like, you know, for me, like really piqued my interest in consumer behavior because you know, if you can find interesting insights with toilet paper, I think you can find interesting insights with anything.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_03: And so that to me was like super exciting.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_03: It was like, you know, I mean, you've never sat in a focus group until you've sat in a toilet paper focus group.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_03: It was amazing.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_03: So uh I went back to business school uh because I wanted to get closer to kind of the brand piece of it.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_03: So I went back to NYU.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_03: Uh and from there, actually was recruited uh by L'Oreal.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_03: Uh so I've always been kind of a beauty junkie.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_03: And um, I remember meeting a recruiter for L'Oreal.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_03: We were like talking at you know at length about our skincare, hair care routine, et cetera.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_03: And it was like, you know, this felt like just a really natural fit.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_03: And so I joined L'Oreal uh working in DMI, so in global marketing.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_03: So doing a lot of the you know, the white space analysis, et cetera, working with RD.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_03: Really loved that piece of it, the product ideation, inception, kind of the technical, marrying the technical with the consumer and the marketing.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_03: Um and so from there jumped over to Clink, actually working in in RI.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so in product development, working uh on, you know, and Clink is a is you know a machine uh working there, uh really exciting, you know, to understand really the technical piece of it, and then kind of made a complete switch, took everything I learned at the big beauty companies uh from an RI and global marketing perspective, and joined Luxury Brand Partners, which at the time was one of the first early stage beauty incubators.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_03: So these were the founded by the guys who founded Bumble and Bumble and sold that to Lauder.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_03: I joined when Orve, which is a you know prestige hair care line, had just launched.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_03: So I uh was at the ground floor of creating uh RNCO, which is a salon hair care line, uh, creating all the you know product ideas, working with the founders, IGK, which is a Sephora, and now Ulta Line, um uh in common, which is uh with Nikki Lee and Rihanna, uh the 901 girls.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_03: And then actually my last project was working with Patrick Starr on one size.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_03: So developing the launch color platform for that line.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_03: Um and what I loved about that was working with contra manufacturers.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, as sometimes unsexy, but it was really for me actually the most interesting thing because you had this like virtual lab that you could make anything you wanted.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_03: Um uh uh whatever you whatever you came up with, and if you're a product junkie was amazing, and uh chose uh about three years ago to jump over to Voyant, which at the time was kind of rather new result of acquisition uh to lead all of our research and development and innovation.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_03: And now most recently, um our you know, our foray into independent beauty brands, which we can talk about, which has been really exciting to see.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_03: So now working with a ton of Sephora, Ulta, B2C, Blue Chip, CPG, et cetera, all kind of working with them individually on developing innovation and formulation.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, that's so cool.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_02: I love that you have such a um like like diverse background.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like that really helps with that aerial view, you know, in terms of when you're with anything, right?
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_02: Not just um RI, like you said, with just understanding brands and understanding what people want.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_02: That's you know, that's so crucial, I feel like now more than ever, because people don't really have that.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_02: I've been noticing that, you know, I I think we all get so locked into our careers that we have this trajectory.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_02: And then um, you know, it's hard to see this everything from an aerial view.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_02: So that's why I say that.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I see a lot of brands doing kind of like redundant things, and I'm like, I need you guys to hire someone who can like look from, you know what I mean, a broader perspective and understand where you're lacking.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_02: And and I think that, you know, that's really, really unique.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_02: I I I like that you have that.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_02: Now, I want to ask you though, because really for me, indie beauty has become this like it's so much more than indie beauty, right?
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_02: So, like from your perspective, how do you see it as as it's growing?
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you know that every day we have a new brand launch, you know, every day there's something new, and someone's investing in something, you know, and a brand automatically goes from zero to a hundred.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_02: So, how do you view that?
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, just looking at the industry and seeing how um, you know, like in terms of just consumer engagement, like, do people want that?
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like what is your uh just opinion?
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you're like doing what um well it's it's so it's so funny.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_03: It's like at most a year ago, I was asking myself the same question because I mean I came from Indie Beauty, and it's like, you know, whenever you talk to people, it's always like it's it's this like enigma, like, you know, it's like this thing that's hard to figure out, and it's like what sticks and what doesn't, and how do you how do you predict success and why are things successful and this whole thing?
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, there's gotta be, you know, a data, uh there's gotta be data or a way, like a logical way to approach this.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_03: And actually, so like a year ago, actually, I started kicked off this kind of my like passion project, which was really trying to marry all this data together to be able to piece together kind of some sort of semblance of understanding of the indie beauty industry of like nuts and bolts, like what makes it tick at the end of the day in 2022, right?
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_03: 2023, not you know, 2014 at the inception when things were blowing up.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_03: And so to do this, you know, I'm one person.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_03: So I basically was like, I need to talk to people.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_03: And so I engaged uh, you know, I set up uh engaged a service that actually sets up these like blind interviews.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and so you know, and I could tell them whoever I wanted to talk to.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_03: And so I I gave them a list of like these brands, you know, you you're a beauty junkie, you know, these brands that you would love to talk to the people behind the brands, right?
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_03: Of you know, the COO or or head of product development.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_03: So these brands that are at all different stages of funding and growth in Sephora, Ulta, D2C, but also then uh the private equity piece and venture capital, like you spoke to it of who, you know, investing.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_03: And that's if you think about it, that's that's what's what's fueling this market is that is that influx of cash that allowing these brands to grow so rapidly and really kind of innovate, take risks, except scale.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_03: And so talk to a bunch of folks there.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_03: So everything from early stage VC to you know to uh private equity, late stage private equity, uh final uh acquirers, et cetera, board members, et cetera, and kind of basically spent like it was over 50 hours of research of me just sitting and asking questions.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_03: And essentially what I walked away with was a couple different learnings is one funding enables brands to make decisions uh that uh normally they wouldn't be able to make.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_03: And so that's that's kind of this new world, and that funding is happening earlier than ever.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_03: And so typically, you know, it's the days of the drunk elephant acquisitions at you know,$845, you know, you know, million dollars, things like that are gone.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_03: Like it's happening, the investments are happening earlier, they're less, they're happening earlier, lower risk to help these brands kind of grow and see how they how they uh how they uh mature.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_03: But that funding happening earlier is really interesting because it's it's also meaning that kind of these bigger players are getting involved earlier and kind of placing their stakes.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_03: And so these brands are having to mature and grow up a lot quicker, and so it can't be the wild, wild west for for forever.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_03: The other interesting insight was you know the level, the the type of evaluation at at every stage of fundings, you know, early stage, it's really that founder story of you know, as predictive of success, right?
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_03: So you you came from you're a cosmetic chemist, you're an expert, you know, we're seeing that trend right now.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_03: So like that, that's okay, that feels good, you know, you you have a great idea, things like that.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_03: Moving into then, you know, uh middle stage, which you consider maybe series B, series C funded, you know, minority investment, and that would be really like who are your retailer partners and have you proved out your market product market fit.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_03: And then lastly, your acquisition piece of it, which is really that like, you know, again, how are you scaling your financials, your uh, you know, your your supply chain, all those.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_03: So what we found was that there's a way to think about it.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_03: And I took the viewpoint of like, if you if you follow the money, that's how you're gonna be able to understand this market because that's really what's fueling it.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_03: And so if you think about it as via a segmentation model based on funding, that's truly how you can make sense of this this kind of this wild west.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_03: And then you marry that with social media, because then that's that layers in the real dynamic around what's really happening with these brands.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_03: And so that's kind of the the overlay across all of this of what are the conversations happening, how is this resonating?
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_03: Are what are consumers talking about?
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_03: How are the brands talking to their community, etc.?
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_03: And are you seeing that organic, consistent social media growth happening?
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, and then it's and then the rest is the rest is just diligence at the end of the day.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_02: I love what you like.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_02: I've just been like literally like geeking hearing you speak about this because I love how you broke that down.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_02: That is so easy to understand because you're right, it is about follow the money because that's what I see every day on LinkedIn.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_02: Every day I'm like, okay, what's gonna be the brand of the day?
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_02: Who's gonna be funding who today?
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_02: Because the and and you know what's crazy, Lauren, is like I'll see that.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_02: And one week later, this brand is like everywhere.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_02: They're in Sephora, they're in Ulta, they're in like freaking like the universe's retail, you know?
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_02: It's ridiculous.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, okay, I think that's cool.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_02: Don't get me wrong, I am a huge supporter of indie brands.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_02: I think that we need more innovation, we need more ideas for sure, but there shouldn't be this cookie cutter formula.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_02: You see what I'm saying?
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like we shouldn't be, we shouldn't be striving as like a brand founder to be like, okay, well, what can I do to get a VC's attention so that they give me money and then I can just spam do the formula.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_02: I'm out, I sell my brand, I make my money and I get out.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_02: That's not, that is not what I want to see more of, you know, personally speaking.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_02: And so when I do see that, it it makes sense, you know, what you said.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_02: It's like if you have the money, you can do the social media, you can do the outreach, you can do the organic growth because that everything takes money.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_02: And that's where um, that's really the the foundation of why I even brought that up.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_02: Because, you know, right now we're in this place where I go on a TikTok and I still see consumers who are like, no, well, I want to dupe to this product, right?
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_02: They're like, well, this is this works great, but it's$80.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm gonna find the product that works just like this product.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_02: So really I, you know, it makes me wonder, is Indie Beauty Indie Beauty anymore?
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_02: Because really the indie beauty I'm seeing is on Amazon, you know, like it's all the dupes.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's just it's coming into it's coming into this weird, like almost like a cycle.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's like the cycle is repeating itself as it did with luxury brands, where it was like, oh, the La Mer Cream.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, let me make a dupe for the La Mer cream, sell it everywhere on Amazon, and everybody's gonna hop on that wagon.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what Indie Beauty is going through again.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_02: So that's why I wrote a paper actually, not a paper, an article, a couple of weeks ago.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_02: And I was saying Indie Beauty are the they're the indie elite.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_02: They're the new luxury brands because for the exact reason that you just mentioned, they've got the money behind them, they've got the support behind them, and now they're also being mocked, like, you know, um, not mocked, uh replicated by other small, you know.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_02: So with that, with understanding that it really makes me think, like, you know, where does all this come in when we really look at, you know, what brands are truly unique?
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_02: You know, how do you really like sort through that is my question.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, how do you, what are the criteria?
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_02: Because at this point, I don't even see anything, you know, any kind of like real criteria.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_02: What's your opinion on that?
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean, I think that's it's so interesting.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, we were talking in the landscape.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_03: I was at Beauty, Beauty Connect, which used was previously Beauty and Money, you know, and that was, you know, really centered on that kind of you know early mid-stage funding.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and this was back in November uh in Los Angeles, and it was like a ton of you know, early stage VC and private equity there and speaking with a ton of folks.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_03: And we were talking to one who's like, you know, one of the best, you know, one of the, I mean, the best in class at that really early stage VC.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, and you know, he was mentioning that like, you know, I think his stat was like he talked to, you know, he spoke to like 1,100 brands and he did 10 deals.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, that's crazy as a ratio of like, you know, that because it's getting, it's to your point, the proliferation proliferation of ND brands, it's it's like, you know, it's explosive.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_03: But the true authenticity, the true innovation, the true, the true uniqueness, it still is rare.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, at the end of the day, because it is this perfect storm of like, I truly believe it's it's founder, you know, it's it's somebody with, you know, and it doesn't, you know, it's it's it's somebody with a really unique story, uh plus uh a great, you know, uh great high performing products and a and most of all, a really, a really engaged community.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_03: And that's and that's how you strike success.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, you know, with all the you know, the Hiram and the Addison Ray stuff that broke, you know, last week, it's like that goes to show it's like you can't you can't place your bets on you know one facet of this.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_03: It ha all has to balance and you have to have it all working in tandem to for for that longevity and that success.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_03: It's um it's uh yeah, yeah, it's yeah, 1000%.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, 1000%.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_02: I think you you're absolutely right.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, and just to add to what you said, like I think one of the really unique things I've noticed, and this is me after I've really kind of taken a deep dive into TikTok, which is really where everybody is right now, and you know, really try to understand like what is it that consumers are looking for?
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_02: Like you, you know, and for example, you know, I'll just start with an example, like you know, vitamin C, right?
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_02: Like everybody was going so crazy over stabilization of vitamin C.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_02: And that was unique.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_02: That was genuinely something to go and bonkers over, you know.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_02: But like now we see things like, okay, well, I'm stabilizing vitamin C again.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, I'm restabilizing it, okay, I'm doing it again, I'm adding gold to it.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like I get so irritated because I'm like, no, we've already done that, you know.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_02: And so when I look at it as a scientist, my science brain goes, okay, people on TikTok are noticing the same thing.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_02: They're noticing that X, Y, Z brands all have the same thing going on, they're have the same claims, even though they might be indie brands, right?
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_02: Even though that that feeling is there from the consumer side where they want to support new and emerging brands, but they're still now there's people are starting to take a step back and be like, wait a minute, stabilized vitamin C was a thing a year ago.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_02: Why are you now talking about that?
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_03: You know, yeah, you uh 100%.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_03: And I mean you see that as like, you know, I'm old and so I've been around for a while, right?
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_03: And you like you, I mean, I remember when the product launch cycle was like you maybe launched one or two products a year.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_03: If you look at these brands, how they're sustaining their growth as they're launching every other month.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, and to your point, it's because I don't know if it's you know, if it's you know, uh uh, you know, because you know, filling gaps, but that's also fueling their growth of like, you know, and there's there's not enough out there, you know, again at the end of the day to be able to be the most it crazy, groundbreaking, innovative product for everything you launch.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, you know, so you're gonna start to see that replication exactly as you described of you know, this this repetitiveness of stabilized vitamin C, like hyaluronic acid, how many weights do you need, like all those different things, you know, like continuing to be talked about uh as new, you know, uh, but just to get, you know, again, those sales bumps and and and and and uh you know continue to keep your community community engaged.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_02: No, I and you know the thing is I almost and I hate to say this because I know that like you know in the VC world and like the funding world, people are very intelligent, you know, they're the brightest of the bright, you know, and and I understand that.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_02: But at the end of the day, I think there's a little bit of disconnect, you know, between people who are giving this money out and the people who are actually buying products.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's like you have to realize like people are not dumb, consumers are not dumb.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_02: The science and the the real chemistry behind products is now becoming a norm to understand.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_02: You know, people are no longer saying, oh, this word on the back of the bottle, it's too long.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not even gonna take time to understand it.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_02: No, now everyone's looking up those words, you know, everyone's looking this stuff up.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_02: So at the end of the day, my thing with brands now is like, okay, what do you do that's different?
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't want to hear anything about, you know, we put collagen in this, we put scraline, you should be doing that automatically.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_02: And so, really, you know, my coming to the real point is that I think that now we can say as an industry, especially with this, like you said, the proliferation of indie brands and the way it's going and the trajectory that's going in, we can say that now there needs to be a benchmark, right?
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_02: In terms of like, this is what you must do, no matter what.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_02: In the sense of this is where your chemistry must be up to point, up to par at this level.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_02: Your, you know, understanding of the consumers must be up to par.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_02: You have to be able to prove these things.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's something that we should require, you know, before we give money out.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_02: Because a lot of times there's a lot of redundancy still.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it's because there's still that out of touch feeling between VCs and people who are funding and consumers.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_02: So I really think that we need to like, I don't know if it's going to be a certification or what, but somebody needs to step in and say, hey, this is the bottom line, guys.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_03: I don't want to, yeah.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_03: So And I think you're naturally I think you're naturally seeing that a little bit of that happen because I mean, they think about it, it's like I brought, you know, like Drunk Elephant, for example, you know, if you look at that, I think that just only because that was the last brand that was acquired at this kind of crazy price tag, you know.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_03: And if I map out like their trajectory of kind of they did a great job of training, you know, they were what you know out of the gate around cocktailing and you know their smoothies and the whole thing, and you know, really focused on a you know, uh uh, you know, a hero ingredient pursue and this whole kind of training, you know, where the acquisition happened was if you I, you know, I'm drawing this out visually now, but like I feel like now in hindsight, it was like probably as on the decline, right, at the end of the day of like, you know, in sales, because I think it was all the excitement had been created, the bar had been kind of raised a little bit to your point of like this benchmark, right?
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_03: Had been raised around kind of again what you need to bring to the table.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_03: And then by the time it acquired, I think the bar had actually been raised again.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_03: And it was kind of almost like, I mean, old news at the end of the day, or kind of like to your point, like it just wasn't, you know.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_03: So you're seeing this, and I think that's where this investment is happening earlier because they're trying to capture that like that inception or that excitement, that that quick growth trajectory, fund it so it can, you know, act on that, you know, uh uh not exploit is the right word, but really exploit that kind of that trend or that what that growth quickly, you know.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_03: You look at um, you know, Julie Schott's brand, the, you know, the the her new the slugging line that they just launched, you know.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_03: I think that that to me is interesting because who knows, they might do have done one run of 10,000 units and that's it.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_03: They're just kind of acting on the trend and and we'll leave it behind.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_03: But it's interesting to see that kind of, you know, again, you know, not placing too many bets, but a lower risk.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_03: But again, speaking to that, you know, the consumer receptivity in a s in a really speed-to-market way, uh without building an entire brand and the whole thing around it.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_03: It's just as uh I don't know.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_03: It's I thought it was an interesting launch.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_02: That is interesting, and I think that's more uh logical, to be honest, because honestly, like trends change every day, you know, things change like you made a great point about the bar because the bar always shifts.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, going back to the drunk elephant analogy, I love that you talked about drunk elephant because people were hating on this brand for so long, and I think this was around the time when they were acquired and they were giving so much hate.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_02: But it's like um, you know, at the end of the day, drunk elephant did a lot of firsts, you know.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_02: I still see them and I look at them and I'm like, that was an innovative brand.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_02: That is an innovative brand because you know, those little even from the packaging, you know, standpoint, the little pump packaging where you had airless packaging.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_02: Now we're seeing those containers being sold on Amazon.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_02: Anyone could put any cream in that container and it's gonna look like drunk elephants, you know what I mean?
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_02: Like lala moisturizer.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_02: So it's it's just so interesting to see that, you know, brands who are truly innovative, they don't get duped.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_02: They get like, you know, things come out of them, you know what I mean?
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_02: In the sense of like new products and little bits and pieces of what they did become trends, you know.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_02: So that uh container, for example, is now a thing on.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: Amazon, you know, it's like everyone's buying it.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_02: And that came from Dunk Alfin, you know?
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like I'm like, you know, I I really think that that's where the innovation side of it really blows my mind because innovation is not a word that just means, okay, you have to have science, uh, you know, papers and that's it.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_02: No, it can be in packaging, it can be in the formula, it can be in the way you approach consumers, you know.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_02: So I want you to speak a little bit on that, Lauren, is this idea of innovation.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what should we be thinking as just people that like, you know, go shopping and just consumers.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_02: When you when you think of innovation, what comes to your mind like as something that qualifies as being innovative?
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_03: Consumers, what you just said.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, that's like to me, that's where it's all like the the uh it's it it's truly this this this world is no longer, you know.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_03: When I was at L'Oreal in twenty two thousand eight, god bless, like, you know, the whole thing was this, you know, trickle-down innovation strategy.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_03: And so things started in prestige, you know, a formula launched in prestige, it then trickled down to you know to mass, and you would tweak it, you know, you know, uh make it more cost-effective, etc.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_03: And but you know, and tweak the messaging slightly.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_03: But like, you know, it was this very uh, you know, uh uh uh it was this very uh pushed, I guess, innovation model of like, we developed this, you're gonna like it, you need it, here it is, like buy it, right?
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_03: And so I look at now and I'm like, you know, I I wouldn't even think about a product idea until I went to TikTok, until I double checked on social media, my social media tools that I used as kind of like as, you know, uh, you know, because I have a toolbox that I use from a from a social media monitoring, et cetera.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_03: And so I that's where I start, and then I back out from that of like, okay, this is okay, these are the ingredients being talked about, these are the brands being talked about, these are, you know, what's you know, appearance concerns, benefits, et cetera.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_03: Like all of it's coming from there, and it's all being backed out from there.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, for me, I think that that's where, you know, if I think about the innovation piece of it, it's now this like balance of like science and and uh and emotion.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_03: Like it's this emotional IQ of brands that they that they've that they've needed to grow to be able to really understand their their specific consumer, what they want, what they're needing, how to how to how to service them and how to continue to speak to them.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I think Glow Recipe is a really great example of that of like how they've how they have continued to grow and even grow beyond just one SKU into a whole holistic brand, global launch, et cetera, and how they you know, tweaking the position to be clinical because they saw that happening in the marketplace of people wanting to have you know percentages before's and afters, etc., like really growing and growing with their community versus staying stagnant and saying, listen, this is this is what we have, you're gonna take it.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_03: Um and using that.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_03: So to me, it's a you know, if I was a consumer and said, Okay, what's innovation?
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_03: I would say, listen, it's something it's a brand that continues to speak to me.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_03: And like I I couldn't even tell you what it is, but I'm like, I I continue to love everything I use from them and they're and they're hitting all my sweet spots, right?
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_03: And I don't even I don't even know it, right?
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_03: So that's that's that's the level of engagement and emotional connect connectivity you have to have now.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_03: Because I think back to our previous discussion of like, you know, the amount of dupes, the amount of the amount of newness happening, like my God, like it's like ADD out there of like beauty products, and every, you know, I'm uh, you know, I'm uh my god, my Sephora build, God bless, is like, you know, because there's newness happening every week.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_03: It's like it's nuts.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_03: So when you find that to stick with it.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_03: So I think to me, innovation then again is is I just like I feel like this brand is like just gets me at the end of the day.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_03: And without me even having to do anything, it just is like everything about everything they launch, I'm excited about and I can't wait to try.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I love that you said that because that's so true.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_02: That's exactly how I am as well.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_02: It's like if it's working, I'm not gonna fix it, you know what I mean, or try to fix it because it's a brand that's working.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I think a great example for me is Straptia Skin.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I love their approach because they started from social media, and I really like that.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_02: You know, when I interviewed their founder, I was like blown away that she started on Reddit and now they're all over TikTok.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_02: People are still raving about them, you know what I mean?
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_02: They're lowering their prices rather than increasing them.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_02: Like, that's to me a great example of a brand as well, you know, that's doing things that are really for the consumer.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I and I feel like with brands that are, I know there's a lot of hype for new founders, right?
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_02: It's like you go into this market and you all of a sudden you have this brand and it's beautiful and the packaging looks great.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_02: And oh my God, some money came in.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_02: So it's easy to lose lose sight of your vision as a founder.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I can see that definitely from a psychological, you know, standpoint.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_02: But like my, I think the message I will really want new brand founders to kind of like buckle down and adhere to is that don't ever be like basic, you know, for lack of a better term.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like don't just do things because you're checking off a box, you know, to get more funding or to do whatever.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_02: Go figure out what's not on Amazon, what's not everywhere, and do that because people are gonna catch on to that.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_02: They're gonna be like, okay, this is what I needed in my life, you know.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_02: I needed a brand that wasn't selling me too much product that I'm wasting half of it at the end of the day, you know, or I'm I'm into the brand that's in it that has the better packaging because my products don't go bad or whatever that is.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_02: Like just take time to figure it out.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_02: Don't just don't think, don't assume, don't assume because you know, 90% of the time consumers are ahead of the game, you know, they know what they're doing and they know what they want.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that that's really a learning lesson for a lot of indie brands.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_02: You know, there's a there's a new one every day, like I said.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_02: So there's a lot to learn from, and there's a lot of really great examples to reference when you're really kind of uh building out your whole brand strategy.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but Lauren, I want to actually kind of you know discuss more about um voyant, you know, really tell me a little bit more about voyant beauty and and what the the goal is.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so so yeah, so voyant is is we're the largest beauty and personal care contract manufacturer in North America.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_03: So what we you know what that means is you know, we are you know, we formulate, we you know have a team of chemists or almost 80 chemists and technicians that formulate everything across skin care, body care, hair care, SPF OTC, sexual wellness, uh pet, air care, you know, body, bath and body, etc.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_03: Everything you can imagine, except for color cosmetics.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_03: Actually, we we we formulate and make.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_03: Uh and Phil.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_03: Uh and uh we just launched uh a new business unit, which is kind of my passion project, which is you know, which is it which is called Atelier by Voyant Beauty, which is a specifically focused on it was based on the research that I referenced earlier around really understanding what indie brands in 2022, 2023 need to be successful.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_03: If you, you know, it's so funny when you and I don't know if you've ever been to a contract manufacturer.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_03: Like when I was on the brand side, I always thought it was so funny because you'd go and visit these contract manufacturers, and they're you know, they look like factories, right?
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_03: You're like, this is a little scary of like, where am I?
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_03: What's going on?
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_03: What's going on?
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_03: It's like big building in the middle door.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_03: Then and then you walk in and you look at the you know, the the display shelves, and that's typically where you just you know, where these, you know, contract manufacturers will display all the products that they make.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_03: And it's like, oh my god, you make this, you make that, you make this, you make that.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_03: It's like, who knew?
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_03: And it's like it's so wild that you know, because you know, contract manufacturer really I mean, I have to say, really enabled this whole indie beauty market to to proliferate because you know, you don't have to be a L'Oreal to have a team of chemists, you can work with your own and develop and scale and manufacture.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_03: So uh Telier is really built around again, focused on servicing those brands that are actually really focused on high growth.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_03: So the brands that we partner the best with are brands that are actually getting funding that that need that scale.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_03: Um, because you know, if you wanted to start ECTA's hair care line tomorrow, you know, you would start, you probably start D to C, you'd probably sign with maybe, you know, I don't know, Sephora, you'd get in, and that it of course it would be successful, right?
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_03: And you would hit and then all of a sudden in your you know, you're you would sign this Ulta, you would sign with Douglas in in Europe, you would sign with Mecca in Australia, and you would need to like, you know, your quantities would triple, double or triple, quadruple, et cetera, which is all great problem to have, but you need a partner that can actually scale with you.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_03: And what we find is that part, you know, brands, brands that are typically early stage really partner with folks that really focus on early stage and can kind of cap out with a capacity perspective.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_03: So anyway, so we're great.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, the other, the other, I think, really interesting thing that we bring to the table, which is my own.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_03: If you want to geek out, we can geek out on this.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_03: I can show it to you at a at a later date.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_03: But I mentioned this toolbox that I have, and it's like it's all the data tools that I always wished I had when I was at Luxury Brand Partners, and even actually Lauder and Laura and L'Oreal, of like, so it's this kind of it's there's like six tools that are evolving, but it's it marries everything up from like channel sales to like everything from prestige to mass sales to ratings and reviews.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_03: So any product that's sold at Amazon Target, Sephora or Ulta, like at a glance, I can understand what's driving positive and negative ratings and reviews.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, I have a social media listening tool, which is kind of this collective intelligence tool, which it tracks every conversation that's happening on TikTok, Reddit, in Instagram.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_03: So I could I could look at Ectis Hair Care Line, I could look at your followers, the demographic breakdown of your followers.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_03: I could then understand what other brands they're talking about.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_03: So if you wanted to go into skincare, I could say, listen, these are the skincare brands that your followers are engaged with.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_03: Get inspired, like this is how I would do it, you know, or what ingredients they're talking about, or I could plug your over-index demographic in to really understand again what concerns are, you know, what what uh appearance uh benefits they want, etc.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_03: Like it the science is nuts, but then you marry that with intuition, and and I'm sure as you can tell, I get really passionate about this of like just love of beauty.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_03: And so it's like it becomes this kind of like explosion of like ideas and and uh and fun at the end of the day.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_03: So innovation.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_03: That's innovation.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_03: That is innovation, correct?
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, yeah.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my gosh, the fun part.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_02: That's so cool.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_02: That's that is so cool to be able to track that.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh, like, and also, you know what?
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_02: We need people to be doing that more because you're right, like you need to know like what are the ingredients being talked about?
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_02: What is it that's really working, you know what I mean?
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_02: On the nitty-gritty level, and where are people really gravitating towards?
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_02: That's amazing.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_02: I love that you have that.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, I'm by the way, I'm always game to geek out over the back track.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_02: But that's really cool stuff.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_02: That's really cool stuff.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I always wondered that, you know, in the in the um realm of manufacturing, like how that works, because you know, as a new brand, you don't have a lot of you know, consumers that are buying your stuff.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_02: So, how does that work?
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_02: You know, in terms of like growing, I always wondered that, you know, like increasing sales and all that.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_02: So that's interesting to me what you mentioned.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_03: It's a now it's a like yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_03: Go ahead, go ahead.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_03: I'm sorry.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_03: No, no, I was gonna say is I it spoke to what you said earlier around the like of kind of like brands being authentic and how they launch.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_03: And what I find is actually some founders, and it's it's the exact opposite of what you think, is like they get really anxious about their product, their MPD pipeline, right?
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_03: So it's like because it's like the more success you have, the more pressure.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_03: And so it's like, well, oh sh, I don't, you know, like is this right?
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_03: Like, how do you and you can actually like I've seen it happen where you like overanalyze to death and you you you have 600 iterations of a formula that you could have done with 20, you know, because you're just like so, so anxious.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_03: And so what I find is actually that data, it's it's not I would never use that data alone, but when you marry it with a founder's intuition, that's where the magic happens.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_03: And that actually helps them to make say, like, listen, actually, yeah, hair care, I would absolutely let's expand into hair care.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_03: That sounds good.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I my followers want it.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_03: I think that, you know, like so it helps to kind of I guess grease the wheels of innovation, if it may, but also helps to kind of give the founders a really a certain level of like comfort of like, ah, okay, this makes a lot of sense.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you know, another thing, and I'm glad you brought this up because this is actually a very relevant topic right now, especially because I actually um the other day I was diving into ingredients, right?
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_02: And being a work individual.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_02: And um I looked into saccharide, I saccharide isomerate, and I was talking about I made a little video and I was like, you know, saccharide isomerate isn't a a really great humectant, and we should be putting it in hair care.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_02: So by the way, and I wanted to also say this the ECTA hair care line is gonna happen now because you had to put that out there, make it out in the world now.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_02: No, but like you're talking about hair care.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_02: This is an ingredient that came from skincare lines.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_02: I you know, uh I it's a wonderful humectant, it's working in skincare.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_02: So for a brand to see something like that and then expand it into something like hair care and to really look at the the body and realize like, okay, scallop is also skin.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_02: You know, what are the problems with the scallop?
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_02: I can still apply the same technology and make it for another part of the body because I understand, you know, it's like that level of just, I think, like you said, brand, founder intuition, you know, how much are you investing in the real nitty-gritty of what consumers need and less on the anxiety part, you know?
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_02: Don't worry so much, just innovate, just innovate.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_03: You know, like that's what they're that's that's so they're best at.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, that's the magic.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, that's why they're successful.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_03: I have the utmost respect for founders.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_03: Like it just is like it's so magic to me to see them work.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_03: And so, like, that's the piece of it of like when that aha moment happens and they put their final twist on it, like that's always when you have these hero products that happen because it's like that's the magic.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_03: It's like, you know, it's like it's it's it's just as it's wild.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and also, you know, just to mention, like, because we are talking about founders, like people really do gravitate towards like a founder story, you know, like they really care.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_02: Like, if you like, and and this is for all the founders out there that might think that, oh, you know, my brand's doing well enough now.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_02: No, like you should go on, go on a podcast, go on social media, go somewhere and talk about how you're doing now.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_02: Because trust me, consumers want to know.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_02: They don't care, like they know that you started off like this, but where are you now?
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_02: Where's your journey at now?
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_02: I think putting that kind of information, even though it's qualitative data, it's important to put out there, especially on social media, because that's how you connect with your consumers and people are craving that, you know.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_02: The more I look into TikTok, the more I'm like seeing comments and people saying to chemists, like, well, I want to know what the brand's doing now.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_02: I know they were great in you know, 2008, but what about now?
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and so it's like even though the brand might have been coming out with great innovations and great technologies, the consumers don't know what you did.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_02: They don't know because you haven't been talking to them, like physically talking to them.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that's you know what I mean?
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_02: Like you got to put in that time and you gotta educate your audience.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_02: And so I really think that it's such a it's such a multi-layered, you know, um, I think area of of us, you know, business and beauty.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_02: So it's interesting.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_03: Because for for folks like us, I mean, I the perfect examples, there's um, there's a Mario, a makeup by Mario product, uh, the soft sculpt um uh enhancer that's like, you know, and I had uh had a con I had a friend that was working there and was like essentially because I was like, this is amazing.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_03: Because I to for me, straight bronzers often I'm super pale and it often reads really fake.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_03: This looked amazing.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, what's the difference?
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_03: And she's like, he took a bronzer and added concealer to the bronzer in the in the in the palette and mixed it together, and that's the product.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, that's awesome.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my god.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, that's amazing.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_03: But I I didn't see that anywhere in the marketing materials.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_03: But that's the kind of story where I'm like, You're a genius.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_03: How did you even think of that?
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_03: But yes, you know what's funny?
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_02: You know what's funny when he came on my show, he I literally asked him about the metallics palette, and he was like, Ecta, this was all science.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, What?
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_02: You put that on the label, Mario! Thank you, yes, and he was like, No, I made all the colors, um, the same colors that are found in the human body, like they're exactly the same shade.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, bro, you're a genius, and you're not telling anybody that you're a genius.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_02: Like, why are you?
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so I hear you, I hear you.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_02: And that's the thing is like, you know, people are like, Oh, I'm falling in love with Mario products.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_02: Why are you falling in love?
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_02: Let's ask that question.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe because he's doing it right, you know what I mean?
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_02: Like he's so yeah, I I think that, you know, the more you tell the world what you're doing, there's nothing wrong with that.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a huge believer in self-promotion, by the way.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_02: I have no, like, I have zero shame at this point because you know what?
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_02: You are you're the best advocate for yourself, right?
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you're your brand.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, exactly.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely, absolutely.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I just I feel like founders need to just take that power and be like, listen, this is what we're doing, this is why we're doing it, and you know, just really, you know, kind of invest in themselves also, you know, that's important.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_02: And and put your vision out there.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_02: Your vision is just as important.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_02: So I I love this conversation, Lauren.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_02: This was so much fun, and I would love to have you back anytime.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like we're kindered spirits here, you know.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_02: So we're like, And by the way, the character line is coming.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm dying.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, I can't wait.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_02: Awesome.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_02: Well, everyone tuning in, please leave your thoughts, your comments, um, your feedback about this episode.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um, what wherever you're tuning in from, I would love to hear more from you guys.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_02: And also today's the launch of Eugen, our magazine.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm very excited that Lauren came on the show and we were able to have this wonderful conversation because that's really that.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_02: Congratulations.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_03: Exciting.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_03: So excited for you.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_03: Congratulations.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, I'm so excited as well.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I want everybody out there, I can't wait for you guys to see it.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but yeah, you know, Lauren, thank you again.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_02: This has been so great.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_03: Super fun.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much, Ecta.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_03: I appreciate it.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_02: Hey guys, so I hope you love that episode.
• 39:22
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• 39:27
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• 39:30
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• 40:22
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• 40:27
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.