Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Simon Hart & Frazer Gregory about their choice of Genesis of the Daleks (5/6)

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Talks to Simon Hart & Frazer Gregory about their choice of Genesis of the Daleks (5/6) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:33
  I'm so drunk. Welcome back to a handsome of
• 0:41
  blunt. Penknife the Doctor Who
• 0:43
  commentaries podcast sigh. I have a question for you.
• 0:50
  Go on. If you are created an opinion on
• 0:53
  your podcast, something witty and intelligent, they're
• 0:56
  convinced on contact and opinion that would destroy all other
• 1:01
  points of views. Would you allow its use?
• 1:05
  It is an interesting conjecture but would you do it?
• 1:09
  Only thing in fandom a microscopic a microscopic
• 1:15
  opinion reigning Supreme. What a fascinating idea but
• 1:20
  would you do it? Yes.
• 1:24
  Yes to hold in my hand. A podcast that contains such
• 1:29
  power to know that right and wrong.
• 1:32
  On such a scale was my choice to know that the tiny pressure of
• 1:38
  my voice enough to reach the microphone would change
• 1:43
  everything. Yes, I would do it.
• 1:49
  That power would set me up above the gods and fro this hamster.
• 1:54
  I shall have that power stop. It honestly these Librarians you
• 2:01
  let them out the bookcases for Five minutes, never mind some
• 2:05
  corrective surgery on his brain, will remove these impulses, but
• 2:09
  still let us make you so pissed. Tales of Youth now where were
• 2:13
  we? Ah, yes, davros is a dictator
• 2:16
  first in a scientist second. Oh, no, he isn't.
• 2:23
  I could barely keep your acting is amazing.
• 2:30
  You think that's acting? Who says he was up?
• 2:38
  It's always the ones you least expect first off is your intro,
• 2:42
  technically. So if you go Welcome back,
• 2:46
  everybody. Thank you for joining us for
• 2:48
  episode 5 of the greatest Doctor, Who story ever made
• 2:52
  Genesis of the Daleks after opinions are available.
• 2:56
  Do you reckon? This is the not according to
• 2:59
  you. Oh youyou said just the best
• 3:03
  story ever. He's he's got the cups, you
• 3:07
  will. Is this okay?
• 3:09
  In terms of dialogue and interchanges?
• 3:12
  Is this the best scripted single episode of Doctor Who?
• 3:20
  I think it might be the greatest conversation between the doctor
• 3:25
  and davros and it's pretty much the first and this is the this
• 3:33
  is what the serious is always aiming for from this point
• 3:36
  onwards with the doctor and davros together that you want
• 3:40
  this This interchange between two huge intellects.
• 3:45
  And I think The story that does it best after this is davros,
• 3:52
  the big finish Adventure. Yeah, it is is magnificent and
• 3:56
  when you've got Colin and Terry Malloy against each other and
• 4:00
  it's superbly written, it's brilliant.
• 4:05
  So yeah, I think that is the closest doctor whoever comes to
• 4:10
  recapturing. The magic that was my other
• 4:15
  question is, how much of that interchange Do you imagine was
• 4:18
  written by Terry Nation? I think I think it's very close
• 4:24
  to donation. I think if you think he's yeah
• 4:27
  no not absolutely because at the same time as this Terry nation
• 4:34
  is just has just written and on TV, the first series of
• 4:40
  survivors which is very much concerned with the same kind of
• 4:45
  idea of I know it's basically a Battery Nation plagued story but
• 4:50
  his writing in And that's has Echoes of what he's doing here
• 4:56
  and I think this is, I think that exchange between the doctor
• 4:59
  and a brass about the virus is is pure Terry Nation.
• 5:04
  I think he is, he is on it. I think we never give him enough
• 5:08
  credit for what he's doing. I'm I think Robert Holmes
• 5:13
  probably gave it a pulse over, but I think the basic concept
• 5:16
  comes from from Rob. From Terry nation is not another
• 5:21
  piece of Terry Nation script that is as crafted as
• 5:24
  intelligent as I exchanged. I don't know that I can recall,
• 5:29
  not top of my head. The other thing is what happens
• 5:31
  when you push them. When you see it you know go on.
• 5:35
  Give it another go. Get another live up to your your
• 5:38
  Legend. Terry.
• 5:39
  Come on. So This boy is capable of when
• 5:42
  he's really trying as he just been hacking away from the last
• 5:46
  good because because he's a, yeah, he himself would say he
• 5:49
  was a TV writing hack and he would take the easy way out.
• 5:54
  If he could, he would rewrite the same plot.
• 5:56
  If he could get away with it, if someone's going to pay him to do
• 6:00
  the same thing and he's he's he's done that without anyone
• 6:04
  finding out. Then he's going to do that,
• 6:06
  isn't he? But here you've got two
• 6:09
  different production teams. In him to do something something
• 6:13
  different and I think he's just really inspired by creating
• 6:18
  davros and telling the story of how the Daleks developed for the
• 6:22
  first time. I think this is really sort of
• 6:25
  made him think and he's come up with these great Concepts.
• 6:28
  I mean, termination has come up with davros, he's come up with
• 6:32
  that. Ross is looking sadly, your fake
• 6:35
  rubber hoses hand is in there in a massive way.
• 6:39
  I don't want to distribute. I want to believe that
• 6:42
  termination is capable of rising this good.
• 6:44
  I don't know if I'm convinced. What should we go and have a
• 6:51
  listen to it? Okay, let's do it.
• 6:54
  It's going to come on, sit or phrases.
• 6:57
  Turn saw in part 5, 4, 3 2, 1 play outside.
• 7:05
  We had some disagreement on this thing.
• 7:07
  We've been agree with a child for last 55 minutes.
• 7:09
  Oh no. All right.
• 7:11
  People have come to expect this much in our bit of contention.
• 7:16
  Well, perhaps we'll just have to throw out to listeners and ask
• 7:18
  them what they think is this, Robert Holmes, or is this Terry
• 7:22
  nation. And how much is coming from?
• 7:25
  Where Because I you know I mind you rubber hose took a pass on
• 7:31
  the Android Invasion and the yeah look at that sees between
• 7:35
  the doctrine sticker on our hardly.
• 7:38
  It's not the same really. Is it what you imagined those
• 7:42
  devices do as it is it kind of in day, creating every torment
• 7:45
  and Agony ever known. Oh my God.
• 7:48
  So it's like listening to speeches by Priti Patel What
• 7:57
  would that be? What would be like your worst
• 7:59
  storm in? Now come on, let's get deep for
• 8:02
  a sec. Okay, you tickled under my
• 8:04
  armpits. Oh, God, absolutely torment,
• 8:10
  slated, or fault. That's my weak spot now.
• 8:14
  Hypes about you Fraser. Oh, I don't know.
• 8:18
  That's a good question, isn't it?
• 8:26
  I'm tempted to say something. Very glib about Priti Patel
• 8:29
  butt. I think for me, it would be, I
• 8:35
  don't know. Actualizing that inner self
• 8:37
  sabotaging voice, you know? Oh God.
• 8:40
  That would be, that would be awful.
• 8:42
  Sorry, we're getting very deep down.
• 8:44
  Becoming a therapy session. Yeah.
• 8:45
  So this bit with the tips I remember watching this and
• 8:48
  thinking is this actual stories? Well I'm not well yes because it
• 8:54
  starts off with almost the Dalek invasion of Earth a bit although
• 8:59
  the time and everything else I want to see the story where a
• 9:03
  featured role Rockets comes from the planet hype overall.
• 9:06
  I'm surprised big finish. Ain't made that one.
• 9:09
  No, yeah, well exactly the same three times.
• 9:11
  No one said it three times under the BFI the other day, when
• 9:15
  those what were then, reveals the spread, Peter Cushing
• 9:19
  script. And then the very next day, big
• 9:21
  finish of social media going, should we make it?
• 9:25
  It's like they're there and ready to go.
• 9:29
  And this is your question earlier in the commentary about
• 9:35
  an extended dialogue scene, and, and children, having the
• 9:37
  patience to watch it because this isn't really what we've
• 9:42
  come to expect from Doctor. Who is it?
• 9:44
  No, and it's different from the Pertwee era.
• 9:49
  A white different. Yeah.
• 9:52
  So but they do, I think. It's because of that for us.
• 9:58
  I think that it works what? Because he's so like frightening
• 10:03
  some nightmare. Yeah, I think so.
• 10:05
  And I want to see what how the doctor reacts to him, when in to
• 10:10
  know this doctor is well always yeah, exactly.
• 10:12
  So and I think this is the story that early on defines him.
• 10:21
  I'm trying to think of like scenes elsewhere that would do
• 10:25
  it. She adornment of indomitable
• 10:27
  seen, is that it? That is the first one that
• 10:30
  really cements Tom Baker's doctor but he's talking to
• 10:34
  himself. Yeah.
• 10:36
  And then and then I'd say it's this one and then it's the yeah.
• 10:39
  The do I have the right? I think those are the his free
• 10:42
  big Powerhouse moments and so forth from this.
• 10:45
  Yeah. But I was trying to think it is
• 10:47
  there like a doctor villain? Asia.
• 10:50
  That's as you don't think. I'm no sure there has been to
• 10:55
  this point in the show. I don't even think liking like
• 10:59
  Pierre is a Marzano, the seams between the doctor and Sue Tech
• 11:02
  are very popular, but Sue, took is so much more powerful than
• 11:07
  the doctor that they're not talking as equals and this is
• 11:11
  what makes down for us and, and defines the doctor, because it's
• 11:18
  that moment. We're divorced, turns the charm
• 11:21
  on almost as says, let us talk not as prisoner and capita but
• 11:24
  of men and men of Science. And so they're talking like
• 11:29
  they're on an equal level and that defines that Ross instantly
• 11:34
  as the doctors archenemy in the way the master is the thought of
• 11:40
  davros being Charming honestly. Yeah, well it's true but the
• 11:45
  doctor is is there and he's willing to debate with him.
• 11:49
  Do you think it's interesting that they don't ever really
• 11:55
  focus on davros is disability? I think that's a really good
• 11:59
  thing. I think that is that's it just
• 12:04
  is I can't think of a way in the 70s that that would be done with
• 12:08
  any great Sophie and and even by the time of Peter Capaldi, it's
• 12:15
  not done with any great subtlety or any.
• 12:19
  Kind of that is all for you. Talk about that something very
• 12:22
  calm down in the wheelchair and of the most awful misjudged
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  appalling scenes. At least I was like a comedy
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  scene as well. And it's that's yeah, it's not
• 12:32
  good. I can't imagine.
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  And it's to be fair when he comes back in Destiny of the
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  Daleks, the doctors, shoving him around, like he's, you know,
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  pushing the dodgem in it and it's with comedy music and
• 12:42
  things. I like it's in a bit misjudge
• 12:44
  there as well. Where are the night?
• 12:48
  I just think. Yeah, just leaving.
• 12:52
  We don't find out. Why is in the wheelchair?
• 12:55
  No, no. And it isn't really holding him
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  back because, no, that's true. What?
• 13:07
  Well, that's the Johnson and really be something.
• 13:12
  Yeah. Are you baby maybe that's why
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  he's aside? Mmm, maybe he's responsible.
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  I mean, what the fuck could cause a face like that?
• 13:23
  Sorry, I don't mean to be rude, but this see here we are.
• 13:30
  In one of the great Doctor Who scenes on way it is.
• 13:35
  And I said, it seems the doctor is managing to persuade davros
• 13:39
  in some way. Do you think there is that the
• 13:42
  there is the chance that the doctor could talk him round?
• 13:46
  No, I don't think there's any chance that, you know, don't
• 13:50
  trust can be taught around at any point.
• 13:53
  I think he's trying though. I think he's trying to find a
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  way to communicate. The idea that the Daleks will be
• 13:59
  this terrible Force if you unleash them.
• 14:02
  I don't, I don't think he is at this point, I think is no at the
• 14:04
  point of just Trainer. You know, probe a bit of about
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  davros, you know, he's disease more curious as to Davos as
• 14:13
  answer to this question rather than using this question.
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  As a as a tool to convince diverse.
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  Not to develop the Daleks. I think he's just more really.
• 14:23
  Would you be? You know how helping Allah your
• 14:26
  dad was. He has a scenario for you one
• 14:29
  with us. So the only way you could he can
• 14:31
  win is to turned a force off. And again because there's no
• 14:35
  motive prescribed we don't we you can read five readings into
• 14:40
  yeah. Skin ever asked that question.
• 14:42
  And what's interesting is we can then debate it for the next
• 14:45
  however, many years 42 47 years. Yeah.
• 14:49
  Do you see this bit here? The way he plays it, where the
• 14:52
  life-support thing gets turned off and he starts, sort of
• 14:55
  drooping, like a flower rate is active, and again, we've got
• 15:00
  another great bit of Dudley some, some music that is Is
• 15:04
  working this scene. So the fall I all of this could
• 15:10
  have been really mistrust, all of it.
• 15:14
  This performance his mask, they could have got the design wrong.
• 15:18
  They could have, they could have got Rodney Bennett in the best
• 15:26
  will in the world is not David Maloney.
• 15:30
  You know? And all of these things is just
• 15:34
  Alchemy. Sometimes that the right people
• 15:36
  are in the right place. All the right story, but I don't
• 15:40
  think there's a single actor in this isn't convinced that this
• 15:44
  isn't really happening, you know, like within their
• 15:46
  performance, you know. From the extras up.
• 15:51
  Yeah, even the extras are being directed beautifully.
• 15:56
  Here we go. The dissidence.
• 15:59
  There's a movement growing. Hmm.
• 16:02
  Thank you. Worry, he'll sort it out.
• 16:04
  There's a fabulous seen in other.
• 16:05
  I'm not sure of his in episode 6 or an episode 5 where you hear a
• 16:09
  rattle of gunfire. So it's the distance.
• 16:11
  They've got arms at this point and he's just there tap it is
• 16:15
  chair in the silence. I waiting to make his move in
• 16:19
  the dark villains in Doctor Who do not get Quiet Moments in the
• 16:22
  dark like that, you know? That's want to make him as
• 16:27
  impactful as possible. Fraser Joe is that Ross?
• 16:35
  Your favorite dogs who villain? That's a good question and
• 16:39
  probably not because I do think you get overused after this.
• 16:43
  I think you know I love them in this.
• 16:45
  I think is fantastic in this. But then when you get towards,
• 16:49
  you know, remembrance of the Daleks ways popping out his
• 16:51
  bread bin is kind of like what love that.
• 16:55
  It's a role on mum in it but it's kind of like you know, it
• 17:00
  gets to that point where or On this man here.
• 17:04
  Hey who's got the best death? Hey doesn't it in a very strange
• 17:08
  everything? Yeah.
• 17:09
  Drops every single part, you know he is.
• 17:11
  He is earning his extra money that isn't he M?
• 17:15
  No. No.
• 17:15
  I do think that Frost gets overused so I think someone like
• 17:21
  shiraz Jack is a really good didn't because the other common,
• 17:26
  the goal, the do, the bitten, you know, good don't have the
• 17:30
  opportunity to then Have a poor story with them in whereas would
• 17:34
  do unfortunately with others. It doesn't quite have the
• 17:39
  presence of Saudi does. He who does old?
• 17:45
  I will, in Time. Lush.
• 17:46
  And that's it. Look behind.
• 17:48
  The stove has really sad when he died.
• 17:52
  He was anything in it. Did you see the dogs a second
• 17:57
  ago? It was all Smoky.
• 17:58
  They were kind of in silhouette. They just look so good.
• 18:02
  Imitating mr. B in episode 4 where they're in
• 18:06
  the foot of the sun Boggs and the dollar Glides across the bar
• 18:10
  above the top of your hand, with the great, big purple
• 18:13
  background. It's is gorgeous splosions and
• 18:16
  fire in the background. And I'm going to ask you guys a
• 18:21
  bit of an unfair question, and I'm not even sure if you can
• 18:24
  answer it because you're so entrenched in this thing.
• 18:27
  I don't mean Genesis of the Daleks.
• 18:28
  I mean Doctor Who that I'm not sure any one of us.
• 18:31
  Us can give a reasonable answer to this question, but are we so
• 18:37
  indoctrinated by Doctor Who and the sort of iconic nature of the
• 18:41
  Daleks? But we essentially a non-fan
• 18:45
  would look at them and think they absolutely fucking absurd
• 18:48
  the plunger the egg whisk. You know, like we see a darling
• 18:52
  and we get Shivers, you know, and excited and but we
• 18:58
  completely lost like that. They actually a bit silly
• 19:01
  looking. But I think they are just so
• 19:07
  wound up in our culture that everyone just pops out of the
• 19:12
  womb knowing what a Dalek is now that it's just so it's just
• 19:17
  there, everyone knows, you could show it to anyone in the UK and
• 19:23
  they would know it was a Dalek. Yeah.
• 19:25
  And they know they're a force for evil there.
• 19:30
  It's almost like everyone knows that.
• 19:31
  A backstory and are taken in by it the same way that we were as
• 19:36
  children. And I think that is, that's
• 19:38
  carried on from the 60s. I think that's down to the
• 19:41
  perfect. Voice design stories, that grip
• 19:48
  the imagination of a generation who then passed onto the Next
• 19:52
  Generation and the Next Generation, and they became
• 19:54
  almost like the ultimate British bogeyman.
• 19:58
  I mean, the one in the back of the bus, weren't there for the
• 20:00
  Platinum Jubilee? Yeah, it was a whole, yeah, a
• 20:03
  whole Fleet of Daleks out action scene.
• 20:06
  Action scenes. So, is there like a kind of
• 20:08
  alchemy then that we've been told for so long that the Daleks
• 20:11
  are on screen get behind the sofa. but everybody that you
• 20:14
  just do it because it happens in 2005, Yeah, and when Dalek came
• 20:24
  on suddenly the Next Generation who hadn't grown up with this
• 20:30
  silly show in the 60s 70s and 80s.
• 20:33
  And in repeats in the 90s suddenly they were as Charmed by
• 20:39
  the Daleks as all of, we were. So there's something about it
• 20:42
  that just works. Oh, I think he was scared.
• 20:44
  I think there was a really strong reactions that Dalek,
• 20:47
  it's 1 in the first story and I think the the very smart thing
• 20:51
  Not only was the redesign which was inspired but also by making
• 20:58
  that one single Dalek, the most powerful, Dalek we have ever
• 21:01
  seen, massacres a whole ton of people in that story.
• 21:06
  But why I'm convinced pray sir? No because that leads to
• 21:10
  problems later. Don down the line.
• 21:12
  Well it does because that one door look that is, you know,
• 21:15
  it's to Magician's Apprentice and the Witch's familiar, it
• 21:18
  doesn't it leads to pain. Another way is where you have a
• 21:23
  billion Daleks million dollars or whatever who are all as
• 21:27
  indestructible as that Dalek. So how do you then defeat?
• 21:33
  Your enemies are 10,000, awesome or million, whatever Daleks who
• 21:37
  will have ridiculous things like quarter of a million dollars to
• 21:40
  suck everything in and yeah sewers coming up you know you
• 21:43
  have ridiculous things happening because they all power and
• 21:46
  sometimes you just want a little, Dalek task force who
• 21:49
  were easily defeated. It's a fun story.
• 21:52
  I'm Fraser. Oh, our first Doctor Who stories
• 21:55
  were darling stories. Yeah.
• 21:57
  So different darling stories, but, but obviously, there was
• 22:03
  something when we were small that We were just say, entranced
• 22:09
  by the Daleks greatly. Absolutely.
• 22:11
  And I mean, you know, my was scared, we are ya scared of
• 22:15
  Daleks coming upstairs but, you know, these Daleks were scary,
• 22:19
  but the would not sort of indestructible.
• 22:21
  No, they could be destroyed by an anti-tank rocket in the
• 22:25
  eyepiece. Over baseball, but that's been
• 22:26
  Stellar manipulated or and you know, that, that sort of thing.
• 22:31
  So that is firstly, the big floor for the new series for me,
• 22:35
  and it does lead to more So of things in like, which is
• 22:40
  familiar, which is Steven Moffat being a bit bored of the Daleks
• 22:44
  and think I need to make up some new stuff about them to keep
• 22:47
  them interesting. Where is Chris?
• 22:48
  Chibnall really did really Nails it because Chris boils down to
• 22:54
  the fact that they're just killing machine first
• 22:56
  principles. Yes, gives us 1 garlic which is
• 23:00
  defeated by microwave in the end.
• 23:02
  What is your original? Yeah, but is A threatening force
• 23:10
  can take claim on people's box and take them over like spiders
• 23:13
  and and that sort of stuff which is really scary.
• 23:16
  Really terrifying. But ultimately like I said can
• 23:19
  be defeated by your microwave. So that's that's getting it
• 23:22
  ready for me. That's doing something
• 23:23
  interesting with the Dalek story not by throwing a quarter of a
• 23:26
  million dollars on the screen or, you know, throwing Daft
• 23:30
  ideas, like Daleks don't have any work for Mercy or whatever,
• 23:34
  silly thing he's coming up with it's about Bringing them back to
• 23:38
  the basics, which is what the story's don't bring them back to
• 23:41
  that, basic exactly, you know, where's that?
• 23:44
  They have to work in Manhattan and evolution of the Daleks.
• 23:49
  There's only three dialects in that.
• 23:51
  It's true. Three or four Daleks, I think
• 23:54
  one of the most of super and speaking of Suits, we've just
• 24:00
  had a scene where they work out. They've got a continuity problem
• 24:04
  with the next story, where someone is designed, Sarah, Jane
• 24:06
  and news. So it's just a find it in the
• 24:10
  locker and look at it in Delight.
• 24:13
  As I say that that's probably my size.
• 24:15
  There are no other women in the bunker.
• 24:17
  But these all these cubes will fit me.
• 24:19
  It's the sort of thing where terrorists a Skyfall will fix it
• 24:22
  with a line. You know, the docs could just
• 24:25
  hand her a story. I mean, that explains that, but
• 24:29
  where does the doctor get his coat from?
• 24:32
  Well, I'd yes. Well, this is a big problem that
• 24:34
  his coat and his hat reappear and He loses it by the time he
• 24:39
  goes. Yeah, it's a mystery.
• 24:43
  Hey, you love here. The Garmin is flattering davros
• 24:47
  and saying, you know, all you've done.
• 24:49
  Many of great achievements over the years and I've just cut them
• 24:52
  down. And says, you didn't bring me
• 24:53
  here to flatter me, you are your demands davros is so-and-so to
• 24:57
  the point and where we were talking last last episode about
• 25:04
  almost garmin's naivety. He It's a bloodless Revolution.
• 25:09
  We've had that line there. He doesn't want any killing but
• 25:14
  this is a world that is based on killing.
• 25:17
  Yeah, because it's the only way you can get it.
• 25:20
  He he is massively naive in this world.
• 25:26
  Massively. But he's a good man trying to
• 25:29
  do. I'll let you play by the rules
• 25:33
  of this world and so he dies. He's who he say, we're gonna
• 25:36
  have a democratically elected new leader.
• 25:40
  He is the price. Yeah.
• 25:42
  From which six people in the bunkers, where, what was your
• 25:48
  the man called covel Carville? Yeah, Carville.
• 25:52
  You know, comes up and he says the coming over to our side and
• 25:54
  drove For 80% on the side yards, that's that's about whom the
• 25:58
  sphere where he's coming in and putting a bit of world-building.
• 26:01
  Yeah. And say, well actually, we are
• 26:03
  just seeing one dorm where someone rooms, you know, would
• 26:08
  just wait. It.
• 26:08
  We're seeing like this one dorm is this entire race.
• 26:11
  Probably. But actually, in this bunker
• 26:13
  let's just flesh it out a bit and let us, you know, we'll have
• 26:17
  we'll do the things like the gun fire in the background which
• 26:20
  suggests there's more people than just the six actual named.
• 26:25
  Members that we've got here. I like the little details.
• 26:27
  I give though. There's a, there's a sequence in
• 26:29
  the next episode, where he says, about the thing that keeps his
• 26:31
  heart going after that hard, It is dorabella, you know, for
• 26:59
  an improvised Cliffhanger in a bit.
• 27:00
  I think this is that Ross benefit said, that just gave Tom
• 27:04
  Baker, a piece of plastic kits do it.
• 27:09
  It was, it was one of my favorite bits on on the audio
• 27:12
  version. I used to listen to that bit,
• 27:14
  and then rewind it, because it was so dramatic in the music is
• 27:17
  so brilliant. And Sarah is, and Sarah and
• 27:21
  hairier. Making noise in the background.
• 27:23
  And Tom's got As a child hearing a, an adult panicked scared
• 27:31
  angry with any very much Matt Cliff Hanger.
• 27:33
  Really frightens me as a kid. Yeah, I was terrified.
• 27:38
  Oh, this is not a ghost from now.
• 27:40
  You're going to accede to their demands.
• 27:42
  They they had one nothing. It's just waiting to make his
• 27:48
  move democracy. Don't you think this works first
• 27:53
  little playing it out over two episodes like yeah, I've been
• 27:58
  ramping up the tension because again, we we know where this is
• 28:03
  going. The audience knows where this is
• 28:05
  going. This is going with.
• 28:06
  The Daleks are going to come into ascendancy, but you don't
• 28:10
  know how will the doctor talk Devils round?
• 28:13
  Will davros be defeated by the men, last members of his own
• 28:16
  race will bet and blow it up. I think, like the let you see
• 28:22
  the climax has a foregone conclusion, so it should be very
• 28:26
  disappointing. And it's not because we should
• 28:29
  just run. But actually, the big twist,
• 28:31
  which were obviously talked about, episode 6, where they
• 28:33
  turn on him is such a great move.
• 28:37
  That's the climbers. There it is not.
• 28:41
  So basically the story is davros is it isn't the story of the
• 28:43
  day, I think it is. And again, if it just been this
• 28:49
  story and then that for This was killed by his own race and his
• 28:52
  own race went on that would. That's absolutely perfect.
• 28:59
  Yeah. And I'm sure it was actually
• 29:01
  designed that way. It's horrible bubbling Vats of
• 29:06
  wonderful, isn't it? She's viscous liquids described
• 29:11
  on the cassette across the floor towards me.
• 29:15
  It's like changing constantly goes to show how much things
• 29:19
  have changed because back in. In the day in the 60s, they
• 29:22
  wouldn't show them, you know, and, and still in the 70s.
• 29:25
  You wouldn't see what was inside, Dalek.
• 29:27
  It wasn't until the five doctors, and that was because it
• 29:30
  was a special moment. Yeah, here we go.
• 29:33
  I look at this instance, music is rising.
• 29:37
  It looks like the cameras right in there, as well as giving it
• 29:42
  everything with that, tiny piece of foam and plastic.
• 29:47
  It's wonderful. He's sales it compare that.
• 29:50
  If Ben Pertwee. Oh God, it would have been over
• 29:54
  like the end of spearhead from space.
• 29:58
  When that telephone y goes around doing the.
• 30:01
  Oh yeah, we good. So we going.
• 30:04
  Yeah, we've even troughton would have had a bit of a gun on that,
• 30:07
  wouldn't he? Uh-huh.
• 30:10
  Frasier, I've got a question for you.
• 30:12
  This will warm you when the three of us, watched the
• 30:16
  Armageddon Factor as PSI reliably informs us was one year
• 30:20
  ago today, Chad, but I remember sort of as we got 2 episode 5 of
• 30:29
  the Armageddon Factor as much as you were enjoying the commentary
• 30:33
  and we were laughing about the ridiculous parts of it.
• 30:36
  You were kind of like oh this is run out of, it's become a
• 30:38
  different story. It's not where it's It you had
• 30:41
  some complaints but you don't feel that way.
• 30:43
  It's all about this or know. I think like I said, the plot
• 30:49
  essentially, the story is done at this point.
• 30:51
  We're just waiting for the doctor to find the time ring,
• 30:54
  but we're just enjoying now what's happening with the cards
• 30:58
  with davros, you know, doing what he's doing, the, the
• 31:04
  machine Nations behind keeping power and losing power and in at
• 31:09
  just, Finding out how devious years is very much, the David
• 31:12
  washer now, very much. You know what, Stavros going to
• 31:16
  do next. What's how's it going to be
• 31:19
  incident? Now, rather than plot isn't it?
• 31:21
  What kind of will come into this bit where we're going to say,
• 31:25
  you know, well how does it end because, you know, is he going
• 31:28
  to destroy the Daleks all the Daleks going to be no more in
• 31:31
  Doctor? Who is he going to change their
• 31:34
  development? Whatever.
• 31:35
  And we asked our fans who watch this after the broadcast know
• 31:39
  that. Doesn't happen.
• 31:41
  But, you know, you can you can imagine someone sitting in, in
• 31:45
  the broadcasting and armor. What how is this?
• 31:49
  How we're going to get out of this?
• 31:50
  So that's where that's the journey were called kind of
• 31:53
  coming towards and, but it's a really good journey to get to
• 31:56
  because we'll have these fantastic scenes.
• 31:58
  We have, you know, the dr. Knotts not even squaring off
• 32:02
  with David Ross, sitting down and having a chat with Douglas.
• 32:05
  Just we said get a normal Boat Boat.
• 32:08
  He's enemy as it were. We have, you know, Garmin who
• 32:12
  is, you know, come from episode one.
• 32:14
  Who was now the the chief driving force behind the
• 32:17
  rebellion and, you know, quite principal character who know
• 32:22
  we're seeing what's happening with him.
• 32:24
  We've got thals in the background about would do some
• 32:26
  for things but they're, you know, not really as significant
• 32:31
  as what's going on in the bunker.
• 32:32
  It's just, it's fascinating, it's what it is.
• 32:35
  So as this is a question of both it in, as the scope of the
• 32:39
  store. Gets smaller and homes in on bad
• 32:45
  for offs. Is Michael Wisher, then the MVP
• 32:49
  of this story. Yes.
• 32:54
  Yes, along with a male's because, you know, if you just
• 33:03
  had Dave Ross, it would not nearly be as effective as
• 33:06
  haven't Davos and naida. It's having that question that I
• 33:09
  keep coming back to what Snyder getting out of this, you know,
• 33:14
  whatever. Kind of analysis.
• 33:15
  I question, you know, I'm gonna have an answer.
• 33:17
  I'm going to have seven answers him.
• 33:20
  You know what I mean? Which one is most likely,
• 33:22
  exactly. But what I'm Have is you know
• 33:26
  that classic thing with the Bob, Holmes, double act davros and
• 33:32
  Ada. It's very interesting because it
• 33:36
  works really well but they don't really ever do it again.
• 33:40
  No. Now they want it's that level of
• 33:43
  course has allies or people that he's manipulating like Chasm
• 33:47
  Beaker or a lot of things that he takes over in Resurrection of
• 33:53
  the Daleks. X but he hasn't got a friend
• 33:57
  because his friend it's just best buds forever because you
• 34:05
  know neither Get Zapped five no not even five minutes.
• 34:09
  Later Davos gets up but then wakes up in Destiny and he's
• 34:11
  just a writer. No.
• 34:14
  Never heard of mm-hmm. You know how soon they forget
• 34:17
  exactly. So you know what is You know
• 34:22
  looking at that relationship on the other side then what you
• 34:25
  know is davros just using Nida as a tool you know is he just
• 34:29
  another tassin bigger that actually happens to to be
• 34:34
  because I'm gonna stick around but I don't think so because
• 34:38
  they do have exchanges and they do have not necessarily Frank
• 34:47
  conversations between the two of them but they have exchanges
• 34:50
  where neither can voice. Almost a dissenting voice.
• 34:54
  Almost not quite. And they can talk about it.
• 34:59
  So I think there is a kind of respect.
• 35:01
  I think that Ross has a respect for Nida and what he does
• 35:06
  because he's part of this world and maybe absolutely not.
• 35:09
  This wasn't easy that night is gonna do what he says.
• 35:13
  Yeah, he is he has to trust Nader because you know if you
• 35:18
  take night away from Davos then as its Point it out in the next
• 35:23
  episode. You can't even reach a safe to
• 35:25
  put something in. Without, you know, he is someone
• 35:29
  that you can trust completely to be able to do things like that.
• 35:34
  You know, I never thought about it in This Much Death Before.
• 35:36
  I might be the know me, but I know will bring great
• 35:39
  relationship questions that no one has ever really thought
• 35:44
  about. We're the we're pioneering here.
• 35:49
  We get you say that. Everyone else is just sitting
• 35:50
  there to open our mouths, shut up about nadir, don't you?
• 35:55
  Roll your eyes on me but I'll still reckon.
• 35:56
  They were fucking back in the day.
• 35:57
  All right, now they have an actual relationship, all right.