Latest / The Breakfast Club / INTERVIEW: Dr. Jessica Clemons Talks Mental Health Advocacy, Postpartum Depression & Psychosis, Parenthood, Lindsay Clancy Trial + More

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INTERVIEW: Dr. Jessica Clemons Talks Mental Health Advocacy, Postpartum Depression & Psychosis, Parenthood, Lindsay Clancy Trial + More · The Breakfast Club

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hold up.
• 0:01
  Speaker 2: Every day I wake up. Wake your ass up. The
• 0:04
  Speaker 2: Breakfast Club. You all finished or you all done?
• 0:08
  Speaker 3: Morning, everybody. It's DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, Charlamagne Tha God.
• 0:12
  Speaker 3: We are The Breakfast Club. Launa Rose is here as well.
• 0:15
  Speaker 3: We got a special guest in the building.
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: Yes, indeed.
• 0:17
  Speaker 3: She's back, ladies and gentlemen, Dr.
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: Jess.
• 0:19
  Speaker 3: Welcome back.
• 0:20
  Speaker 4: Feels good to be here.
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: Very important to say, Dr.
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  Speaker 5: Jessica Clements is a board-certified psychiatrist, okay?
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: All right.
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  Speaker 5: Graduated Cornell University Medical College. Completed your residency training at NYU.
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: Yes. At NYU, okay? Very important to say that.
• 0:36
  Speaker 4: Why?
• 0:36
  Speaker 6: Why?
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: Just want people to know that she really got her
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: certification and qualifications.
• 0:39
  Speaker 3: That's just been up here before.
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: I know, but you know.
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  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: I want to reiterate to the people. All right.
• 0:45
  Speaker 3: Well, how are you feeling, Dr.
• 0:46
  Speaker 4: Jess?
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: She's a real doctor.
• 0:47
  Speaker 4: I'm feeling great. I'm glad you did that for me
• 0:49
  Speaker 4: because I was going to try to find a way
• 0:51
  Speaker 4: to bring that in. Oh my God.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: Do y'all have to do that now?
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: On platform?
• 0:55
  Speaker 4: I really, so before the controversy online, when people were
• 1:00
  Speaker 4: talking about whether, you know, someone is.
• 1:02
  Speaker 3: People with a doctor or not. Yeah.
• 1:04
  Speaker 4: I wouldn't think it's a thing. But now I do
• 1:07
  Speaker 4: think it's important. People really need to know that the
• 1:09
  Speaker 4: information they're getting from so-called doctors, you know, it's trusted.
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  Speaker 4: It's vetted. So, yeah, I feel like it's something that
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  Speaker 4: we do have to say.
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  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
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  Speaker 4: And the last thing is medical doctors, it's easy to
• 1:20
  Speaker 4: look up whether or not we're truly who we say
• 1:23
  Speaker 4: we are. All you have to do is just take
• 1:25
  Speaker 4: our name and the state we're licensed and you can
• 1:27
  Speaker 4: see if the license is active or not.
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  Speaker 2: It's.
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  Speaker 4: You know, it doesn't take much to show your degrees
• 1:33
  Speaker 4: and things like that. They're always on the wall behind me.
• 1:35
  Speaker 3: OK.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 5: And I'm glad you're here because you're also a reproductive psychiatrist.
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: So you treat women with postpartum.
• 1:41
  Speaker 5: And we've been having a lot of conversations about postpartum,
• 1:43
  Speaker 5: especially because of the Lindsay Clancy situation. And I think
• 1:46
  Speaker 5: it's very important because we spend nine months talking about
• 1:50
  Speaker 5: women being pregnant, but never talk about what happens to
• 1:52
  Speaker 5: the mother psychologically after pregnancy.
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  Speaker 4: Absolutely. Yeah, this is a newer area in psychiatry. Mass
• 2:00
  Speaker 4: General is really leading in a lot of the research. Yeah,
• 2:05
  Speaker 4: we don't talk about the hormonal effects, whether it's pregnancy,
• 2:08
  Speaker 4: delivery or even before. Like I take care of a
• 2:10
  Speaker 4: lot of women who talk about, wow, every couple of
• 2:14
  Speaker 4: weeks out of the month before my period starts, I'm
• 2:16
  Speaker 4: just anxious or depressed. But we talk about that and
• 2:20
  Speaker 4: we talk about treatment options that might include therapy or
• 2:23
  Speaker 4: lifestyle modification. but also medication. But when I'm thinking about
• 2:28
  Speaker 4: like postpartum, especially to your point with the case that
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  Speaker 4: we've all kind of watched, I kept a little distance
• 2:34
  Speaker 4: from some of the details there. But yeah, we're talking
• 2:37
  Speaker 4: people are coming in depressed. It affects their ability to
• 2:40
  Speaker 4: bond with the baby, which then also has effects on
• 2:43
  Speaker 4: the infant child, right? If they're not properly bonding with
• 2:46
  Speaker 4: their parent, the mother, that has, you know, some downstream effects.
• 2:50
  Speaker 4: But there could absolutely be a role for medication for
• 2:53
  Speaker 4: some women. It also could be a role for more support,
• 2:57
  Speaker 4: making sure that you have someone there to cover the
• 3:00
  Speaker 4: night shift. I know personally that was just one of
• 3:04
  Speaker 4: the hardest times after having a baby to be up
• 3:06
  Speaker 4: all night and just thinking about what that does to
• 3:08
  Speaker 4: mood and irritability. So it's an area of medicine that's
• 3:12
  Speaker 4: starting to really take the front center now.
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  Speaker 3: Well, let me just break down the Lindsay Clancy case
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  Speaker 3: for somebody that doesn't know. She's a 36-year-old former labor
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: and delivery nurse. She strangled her three children ages five,
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  Speaker 3: three and eight months before attempting suicide by jumping out
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  Speaker 3: of a second story window. She was not prosecuted on
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  Speaker 3: September 24th, 2026. It was a mistrial. The judge declared
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  Speaker 3: a mistrial after seven days of deliberation. And this has
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: been a big conversation of postpartum and all that. I
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: wanted to ask. When I seen your name on the
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: sheet earlier this week, well, last night. I called Charlamagne.
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: I'm like, is that Dr.
• 3:50
  Speaker 4: Jess?
• 3:50
  Speaker 6: Dr. Jess?
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: Because usually we don't see Dr. Jessica Clemens, right? We
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: just see Dr. Jess is coming. And he was like, yeah.
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: I was like, well, where has she been? We haven't
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: seen her in a long time. And she was like, well,
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  Speaker 3: she dealt with postpartum. And I was like, wow. I
• 4:02
  Speaker 3: was like, well, break down what it is. I've had
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: six kids. You know, I have six kids. And thank
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: God my wife didn't deal with it. So what makes
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: somebody deal with having a child, like Charlamagne said, so excited,
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  Speaker 3: nine months, you're excited to have this baby, a baby
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: that you created and you do the nursery and you
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  Speaker 3: build the crib and the family's giving you gifts and
• 4:21
  Speaker 3: you can't wait. And you're picking outfits to look like
• 4:24
  Speaker 3: your outfits and you get so excited. And then you
• 4:26
  Speaker 3: hear a lot of women say when the baby came,
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: they didn't like the baby. They didn't want them. They
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: didn't want the child next to them. They, some women
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: would say, hate the baby. How do you get to that?
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: That's what Mimi said this morning. Our front page news
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  Speaker 2: person said she.
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: She hated her son at first. Oh, wow.
• 4:40
  Speaker 4: Wow.
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: So how do you get there?
• 4:42
  Speaker 4: Yeah. So for, for me, just to make sure people
• 4:46
  Speaker 4: are okay with, um, Part of what I've been focusing on,
• 4:49
  Speaker 4: I mean, answer the question, is really building my private
• 4:51
  Speaker 4: practice and trying to shift away from social media as
• 4:55
  Speaker 4: a primary public space that I engage in. But how
• 5:00
  Speaker 4: we get there. So during pregnancy, there's like big shifts
• 5:03
  Speaker 4: in hormones. you know, estrogen is high and that's why
• 5:06
  Speaker 4: the hair is like herring and the skin is all full.
• 5:09
  Speaker 4: And just, you know, just really people just look great
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  Speaker 4: when estrogen levels are high. But after delivery, that starts
• 5:17
  Speaker 4: to tail off pretty rapidly. And so for some people
• 5:21
  Speaker 4: who are more sensitive, that's the language we kind of
• 5:23
  Speaker 4: use in medicine, meaning one woman may tolerate that estrogen
• 5:27
  Speaker 4: drop off and another woman may not. The one who's
• 5:30
  Speaker 4: more sensitive, the one who doesn't, may begin to have
• 5:33
  Speaker 4: signs of like postpartum blues. In fact, 50 to 85%
• 5:37
  Speaker 4: of women will experience that. That's not like depression where
• 5:41
  Speaker 4: you're down, you really don't want to get out of bed,
• 5:43
  Speaker 4: you're feeling hopeless, maybe even suicidal. It's more of like irritability.
• 5:48
  Speaker 4: There might be some anxiety. You might be just a
• 5:51
  Speaker 4: little like frustrated, unable to connect. maybe some feelings towards
• 5:55
  Speaker 4: the baby, not at all like postpartum psychosis, which I'll
• 5:57
  Speaker 4: go into, but that usually gets better once mom is,
• 6:01
  Speaker 4: you know, properly, she's got the nutrition back, she feels supported,
• 6:06
  Speaker 4: she's focusing on rest. A lot of what I advise
• 6:08
  Speaker 4: women who come in after delivering is like, you got
• 6:11
  Speaker 4: to sleep. Even if you have to stop pumping or
• 6:13
  Speaker 4: prioritizing trying to breastfeed, like let's move on if it's
• 6:16
  Speaker 4: not working for you. But again, part of what happens
• 6:19
  Speaker 4: is the change in estrogen levels affects some women and
• 6:22
  Speaker 4: And then the work. I mean, it's hard taking care
• 6:23
  Speaker 4: of a newborn, especially when it's the first. You have
• 6:26
  Speaker 4: no idea. You're like, to your point, you're getting ready.
• 6:28
  Speaker 4: You're creating the moment. You're getting the room ready. Then
• 6:32
  Speaker 4: the baby arrives, and now this baby has to be
• 6:34
  Speaker 4: fed 24-7. The only communication is through tears. I mean,
• 6:38
  Speaker 4: it's stressful. And then if a lot of women do
• 6:41
  Speaker 4: feel pressure to breastfeed, to pump, that is around the
• 6:46
  Speaker 4: clock too. You can't just stop because you need to sleep.
• 6:49
  Speaker 4: If you don't, you'll stop producing milk. So I think
• 6:52
  Speaker 4: for some women, if they end up not being properly supported,
• 6:55
  Speaker 4: that first couple of days when postpartum blues can show up,
• 7:00
  Speaker 4: that can sort of start to set the stage for
• 7:02
  Speaker 4: postpartum depression, anxiety. I support a lot of women who
• 7:07
  Speaker 4: talk about how overwhelmed they feel. You know, they're worrying
• 7:10
  Speaker 4: about this. Do I have enough for that? So it
• 7:13
  Speaker 4: starts to play into how they feel about themselves and
• 7:16
  Speaker 4: how they feel about their performance. And then even the children,
• 7:18
  Speaker 4: it can be resentment. that builds.
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: Can you help us understand the spectrum?
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  Speaker 5: Like what separates like the normal baby blues from the
• 7:25
  Speaker 5: postpartum depression and the psychosis and the OCD?
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: Like, like, like help us understand the spectrum.
• 7:31
  Speaker 4: Yes. Great question. So we, we look at this as
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  Speaker 4: like a continuum. Okay. Some women, um, before they became pregnant, uh,
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  Speaker 4: may have had a history of depression and anxiety already,
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  Speaker 4: but postpartum, uh, this continuum of blues, depression, and psychosis
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  Speaker 4: can happen in any, any woman, um, Again, part of
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  Speaker 4: it is this like hormonal shift that some people are
• 7:53
  Speaker 4: more sensitive to. But blue shows up about two to
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  Speaker 4: four days into post delivery and it levels off and
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  Speaker 4: you're not depressed to the point where your mood is
• 8:03
  Speaker 4: consistently down. You're sad. Literally, you can say, I feel depressed.
• 8:08
  Speaker 4: You're not dealing with a lot of sleep issues. You're
• 8:10
  Speaker 4: not sleeping great. You're caring for a baby. You could
• 8:12
  Speaker 4: fall asleep. If somebody takes that baby, you're out. Right.
• 8:14
  Speaker 4: You could fall asleep. Postpartum depression would have the opposite.
• 8:18
  Speaker 4: You're having trouble falling asleep. Your appetite's low, stuck to
• 8:21
  Speaker 4: your mattress. You're having a lot of thoughts of guilt.
• 8:23
  Speaker 4: You're not enjoying things. You're hopeless. And some women will
• 8:26
  Speaker 4: develop suicidal thoughts. That occurs maybe in the first couple
• 8:29
  Speaker 4: of weeks. Two to four weeks is when we look
• 8:31
  Speaker 4: for that. But this isn't the one that we're worried
• 8:33
  Speaker 4: about the safety of the baby. Postpartum psychosis is rare.
• 8:37
  Speaker 4: It happens in about one to two deliveries out of
• 8:40
  Speaker 4: a thousand births. So it's rare. Most women are not
• 8:43
  Speaker 4: going to experience postpartum psychosis. But this is the one
• 8:46
  Speaker 4: that was, I guess, kind of at the forefront of
• 8:48
  Speaker 4: this case, which, you know, I don't really know if
• 8:51
  Speaker 4: that's what it was because eight months is not really
• 8:53
  Speaker 4: the window. Postpartum psychosis we're seeing in the first couple
• 8:56
  Speaker 4: of weeks, but really at four weeks, we're not really
• 8:59
  Speaker 4: expecting that to be there if it occurred. And it
• 9:03
  Speaker 4: is a emergency situation. Right. So the person will look disorganized.
• 9:08
  Speaker 4: They might have mood fluctuations. So they're really elevated. They
• 9:12
  Speaker 4: might be up all night, you know, talking and very
• 9:15
  Speaker 4: just have all this energy or they might look depressed.
• 9:18
  Speaker 4: They might be disorganized and like, what are you doing?
• 9:20
  Speaker 4: You're putting the remote in the, you know, fridge. It
• 9:22
  Speaker 4: just something seems odd. But what one of the hallmarks
• 9:25
  Speaker 4: that's scary is if they start to communicate that they're
• 9:27
  Speaker 4: hearing things or. Or they start to believe that something's
• 9:31
  Speaker 4: going on with you with the baby. They don't really
• 9:33
  Speaker 4: want anyone with them. This can put the infant and
• 9:37
  Speaker 4: family at risk of infant side or, you know. So
• 9:42
  Speaker 4: it's an emergency in New York. There are so many resources.
• 9:45
  Speaker 4: There's a mother and baby unit, I think, at Mount Sinai.
• 9:47
  Speaker 4: So it's not unusual if someone does present with this
• 9:50
  Speaker 4: for them to get admitted. You'd have to be admitted,
• 9:52
  Speaker 4: treated with antipsychotics. But they'll keep the baby in the
• 9:56
  Speaker 4: hospital with you. But you're not the primary when caretaking
• 9:59
  Speaker 4: because the risk is that if they're alone, maybe these
• 10:02
  Speaker 4: command auditory hallucinations might tip them into acting on it.
• 10:07
  Speaker 4: But again, very rare. It's an emergency. Depression is probably
• 10:11
  Speaker 4: a bit more common. Blues is incredibly common, but that resolves.
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: And what are your thoughts on paternity leave, right? Because
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: When I first heard about paternity leave, I laughed so loud.
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: I was like, what the hell does a man need
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: to take off, right? But now hearing what you're saying,
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: I guess it would be needed.
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: For support.
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: For support.
• 10:30
  Speaker 4: Absolutely. I don't want to leave the men out, right?
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: I didn't say paternity.
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: Did you?
• 10:35
  Speaker 4: No.
• 10:37
  Speaker 6: But I think things have developed since y'all have had
• 10:39
  Speaker 6: your children. But you said you don't want to leave
• 10:41
  Speaker 6: the men out. You mean that in their mental space
• 10:43
  Speaker 6: as well or just the fact that? So talk a
• 10:45
  Speaker 6: bit about that because I don't ever hear people talk
• 10:47
  Speaker 6: about their side of it as well too. Yeah.
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: So.
• 10:52
  Speaker 4: The first point, yes, support is really why I think
• 10:55
  Speaker 4: men should absolutely advocate for it. You don't want your partner,
• 10:58
  Speaker 4: your spouse, whatever the situation is, at home alone with
• 11:02
  Speaker 4: all of the burden of care. But I think we
• 11:05
  Speaker 4: also don't really talk about the changes that happen to men.
• 11:08
  Speaker 4: This isn't like a hormonal conversation, but more or less
• 11:11
  Speaker 4: just the big role that people are stepping into, right?
• 11:14
  Speaker 4: So if it was just the two of you, that's
• 11:16
  Speaker 4: a very different lifestyle, very different dynamic. Now you might
• 11:20
  Speaker 4: have someone who's like, actually, I really do need you
• 11:22
  Speaker 4: to take the baby when you come home. I don't
• 11:24
  Speaker 4: need you to do your process to decompress. So that
• 11:27
  Speaker 4: can also take a toll on people. Stress is one
• 11:31
  Speaker 4: of the most notorious experience that people don't recognize, but
• 11:35
  Speaker 4: contributes to things like anxiety, which also can have irritability
• 11:39
  Speaker 4: in there. You know, anxiety isn't just this like cute, oh,
• 11:42
  Speaker 4: I'm so worried, but people can be really edgy, snappy, right?
• 11:45
  Speaker 4: It also can bring up feelings of depression, right? whether
• 11:48
  Speaker 4: it's like depressive episode or just the low mood that
• 11:51
  Speaker 4: comes with, maybe you're not connecting with your, you know,
• 11:54
  Speaker 4: your partner anymore. Uh, maybe it's demanding on you too.
• 11:57
  Speaker 4: You worked all day. You want to come home and decompress,
• 12:00
  Speaker 4: but now you have this baby that you have to
• 12:02
  Speaker 4: take care of. Your wife's like this, but you understand,
• 12:05
  Speaker 4: but it still affects you. Right. So, um, paternity leave
• 12:10
  Speaker 4: is important. I wish in the U S it was longer.
• 12:12
  Speaker 4: I think what it's like six weeks, maybe not long enough. Um,
• 12:17
  Speaker 4: That's still like a newborn. That baby is so tiny
• 12:19
  Speaker 4: and developing. So I think if a man is on
• 12:22
  Speaker 4: the fence about it, you just need to take it.
• 12:24
  Speaker 4: Take the time. Bond with the family. Be supportive. Figure
• 12:28
  Speaker 4: out the new role.
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 12:30
  Speaker 4: So that it's not really just one person taking the
• 12:33
  Speaker 4: lead on all the caretaking. Because that does affect the
• 12:35
  Speaker 4: relationship as well. And not pressuring also for sex. That's
• 12:39
  Speaker 4: just something I want to throw in there.
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: Say that again. Expound on that?
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, go ahead. That seems like that's been a... Since
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: you said it like that, it seems like that's been
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: a problem and an issue with.
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: A lot of couples.
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: Because you're supposed to do six weeks after, right?
• 12:48
  Speaker 4: People need a weight, right? Yeah, so the body can heal.
• 12:52
  Speaker 4: But also just realizing that this woman, her body doesn't
• 12:55
  Speaker 4: really even belong to her anymore. Mm-hmm. Right? You've heard
• 12:58
  Speaker 4: about being touched out when moms are talking about like, okay,
• 13:02
  Speaker 4: the kids are all on me. I don't want anybody
• 13:04
  Speaker 4: else to touch me.
• 13:04
  Speaker 6: Oh, like when mom needs to take like an hour,
• 13:07
  Speaker 6: maybe an hour in the car before she walking out
• 13:08
  Speaker 6: the driveway or she hiding in the closet.
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: Because she just needs, she tired.
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: Don't touch me.
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: I know of that, but I didn't know it was
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: called touched out.
• 13:14
  Speaker 4: Touched out. Like, you know, if you're nursing and you
• 13:17
  Speaker 4: got a toddler with you and everybody's just grabbing for mom.
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 13:21
  Speaker 4: At some point it's just like, get off me.
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 13:24
  Speaker 4: Right. So I was kind of being a little tongue-in-cheek
• 13:27
  Speaker 4: here where I was saying men also need to give
• 13:28
  Speaker 4: their women time to not make sex something that you
• 13:31
  Speaker 4: start to also put the pressure on because she's adjusting
• 13:34
  Speaker 4: to her body and the hormones. And if she's lactating,
• 13:37
  Speaker 4: you know, let her get her time to heal, but
• 13:39
  Speaker 4: also for you two to figure out the dynamic now
• 13:41
  Speaker 4: that kids are involved.
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: I wonder at.
• 13:43
  Speaker 5: What point does normal adjustment become an illness? What do
• 13:49
  Speaker 5: you mean? Like when you're looking, you know, the normal,
• 13:51
  Speaker 5: like the baby blues, you see that, but How do
• 13:53
  Speaker 5: we know when there's something actually more going on?
• 13:56
  Speaker 4: Time, right? So if you are experiencing, like I was
• 14:00
  Speaker 4: describing before, for moms, some irritability, maybe there's sadness, overwhelm,
• 14:04
  Speaker 4: you're surprised by how much you're not connecting, give it
• 14:08
  Speaker 4: about a couple of weeks. I actually recently cared for
• 14:10
  Speaker 4: a young woman who that's what we were monitoring. She
• 14:13
  Speaker 4: came in and I thought we were going to talk
• 14:15
  Speaker 4: about her birth story, but she's like, I'm overwhelmed. I'm
• 14:17
  Speaker 4: really surprised by this. It's kind of getting to me.
• 14:21
  Speaker 4: But what I talked about with her is you were
• 14:23
  Speaker 4: advised by your treatment, like the birthing team, not to
• 14:25
  Speaker 4: get out of bed. I don't really agree with that.
• 14:28
  Speaker 4: So now you're like isolated in the bedroom. You know,
• 14:31
  Speaker 4: you were told not to really do anything, let others
• 14:33
  Speaker 4: do things for you. But I think she took it
• 14:35
  Speaker 4: so literally that I'm like, what have you been doing?
• 14:37
  Speaker 4: I've just been in my room. Girl. I need you
• 14:39
  Speaker 4: to get out of bed. I'm sorry that, you know,
• 14:41
  Speaker 4: this is what you think you have to do. But
• 14:44
  Speaker 4: also you need more people to come in and help you.
• 14:46
  Speaker 4: You don't need to just have the baby with you
• 14:48
  Speaker 4: all the time if you're feeling like you're overwhelmed. But
• 14:51
  Speaker 4: to your question, it's the time. So for her, we
• 14:53
  Speaker 4: kept monitoring it and it trailed off. So probably by
• 14:57
  Speaker 4: like the third or fourth week, she was feeling more
• 15:00
  Speaker 4: like herself. She was bright, wasn't so tearful. She was
• 15:03
  Speaker 4: excited again. Show me your baby, you know, on a photo. Um, but,
• 15:07
  Speaker 4: but time two to four weeks, if it's persistently down your,
• 15:11
  Speaker 4: your partner's not getting out of bed, you're trying to
• 15:13
  Speaker 4: help take off some of the load. Now we're looking at,
• 15:16
  Speaker 4: could this be depression? And if they talk about things
• 15:18
  Speaker 4: like I'm hearing things about the baby or I'm, I'm,
• 15:21
  Speaker 4: I feel like, you know, I might harm them. That's
• 15:25
  Speaker 4: an emergency. You know, you don't want to go golfing.
• 15:28
  Speaker 4: You don't want to go step away for a big
• 15:30
  Speaker 4: work trip. You want to get family, get the baby
• 15:32
  Speaker 4: secured and get them in front of a reproductive.
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: Let me ask you one question. You know, I was
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: talking to Charlamagne about this earlier. He said he heard
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: it before, but when I would talk to my mother
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: or my grandmother or my aunts, I've never really heard
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: him mention postpartum, right? Is it something because they didn't
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: talk about it because it wasn't the thing to do
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: or was it because back then more family stepped in, right?
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: I just remember having my first child, Madison, and grandmas
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: were there. They were like, we'll take the baby. You
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: go ahead. You go relax. And maybe we're not hearing
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: that as much now.
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: Is that?
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: Some of the case of why?
• 16:07
  Speaker 4: I think you're onto something. Yeah. We're, we're living so isolated.
• 16:11
  Speaker 4: You know, I had my first baby during the pandemic
• 16:14
  Speaker 4: and it was me and my husband, you know, it
• 16:16
  Speaker 4: was just the two of us doing this thing. So
• 16:18
  Speaker 4: it would have been wonderful for both of us to
• 16:21
  Speaker 4: have a grandparent to come in and, and just take
• 16:24
  Speaker 4: the baby. Literally. I'm not thinking about anything except sleeping
• 16:29
  Speaker 4: and recovering and the two of us kind of bonding again.
• 16:32
  Speaker 4: So I think you're on to something. And even the
• 16:34
  Speaker 4: example I was sharing before about someone I'm working with
• 16:37
  Speaker 4: very similarly didn't really have a lot of support. But
• 16:41
  Speaker 4: then when the grandparents came, she was like, I didn't
• 16:44
  Speaker 4: see my baby for like three days. And I got
• 16:46
  Speaker 4: to like, you know, go and get my nails done.
• 16:49
  Speaker 4: And we went for walks. So I think I think
• 16:52
  Speaker 4: you're on to something. If, you know, I were someone listening,
• 16:56
  Speaker 4: getting ready to have a baby and I'm on the
• 16:58
  Speaker 4: fence about letting family come, you know, if it's a
• 17:00
  Speaker 4: good bond, good dynamic. Let them come. And take the
• 17:04
  Speaker 4: pressure off of trying to make sure you nurse and breastfeed.
• 17:07
  Speaker 4: I think there's a lot of pressure on women for that.
• 17:10
  Speaker 4: Get the formula. A fed baby is a fed baby.
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: You have to breastfeed. It's not the same as the formula.
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: It's this. My mom has always told.
• 17:18
  Speaker 6: Me breastfeeding, yeah, it makes your baby smarter and it
• 17:20
  Speaker 6: helps you lose weight and get your body back faster.
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: So she's always been like, you got to breastfeed.
• 17:25
  Speaker 4: If you can, do it. But if it's causing you
• 17:29
  Speaker 4: unnecessary stress, you can't get enough sleep because you have
• 17:32
  Speaker 4: to pump or feed all through the night. Let it go.
• 17:35
  Speaker 4: And the study that I think people are referring to
• 17:40
  Speaker 4: about how smart babies are, we've kind of looked at
• 17:43
  Speaker 4: it a bit further. There's confounders that can happen when
• 17:47
  Speaker 4: you're putting a study together. And if you aren't careful
• 17:50
  Speaker 4: to separate things out, you start to put, you start
• 17:53
  Speaker 4: to conflate this is the reason that we're seeing that.
• 17:56
  Speaker 4: And so one of the things I think about it
• 17:58
  Speaker 4: when I think about race in this country and just
• 18:00
  Speaker 4: in general in the world, it was a lot more
• 18:02
  Speaker 4: white women who were in the study. Right. And so
• 18:07
  Speaker 4: it's not about race, but it was about things like
• 18:09
  Speaker 4: education levels or right.
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: So your baby's smarter when, when they go to a
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: private school, you know what I mean? And the class
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: size is only 10, but then when it's us, it's
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: class size is 36.
• 18:19
  Speaker 4: Right. So then it's easy to kind of assume, well,
• 18:22
  Speaker 4: these babies were breastfed and that's why they're smarter. It
• 18:26
  Speaker 4: could be the environment. It could be how much time
• 18:28
  Speaker 4: they were able to, you know, develop skills with their child. But, um, Yeah,
• 18:33
  Speaker 4: just focus on yourself and giving the baby the basics
• 18:37
  Speaker 4: of what they need because it's a long call. You're
• 18:40
  Speaker 4: not just in it for the first couple of weeks.
• 18:41
  Speaker 4: You're in it forever. I mean, I still call home.
• 18:45
  Speaker 5: The point that you made earlier, I heard postpartum used
• 18:47
  Speaker 5: so casually my whole life, I just never realized.
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: It was a mental health issue.
• 18:52
  Speaker 5: Because I'm just starting to hear phrases like postpartum depression.
• 18:56
  Speaker 5: I didn't hear postpartum psychosis until the Lindsay Clancy trial.
• 18:59
  Speaker 5: So I feel like we miss a lot by just
• 19:02
  Speaker 5: using it casually, saying, oh, that's just postpartum, but we
• 19:05
  Speaker 5: don't actually know what that entails.
• 19:07
  Speaker 4: Yeah. I think people in the past thought it was
• 19:11
  Speaker 4: just a part of what the experience is, you know?
• 19:15
  Speaker 4: But it's not always. A lot of women do experience it.
• 19:18
  Speaker 4: Like I said before, 50% to 85% of women after
• 19:21
  Speaker 4: delivery will have some mood lability. They may be tearful.
• 19:26
  Speaker 4: They may be irritable. But from my perspective in caring
• 19:28
  Speaker 4: for patients, I wonder how much of that is sleep deprivation,
• 19:32
  Speaker 4: the pressure to perform it perfectly. You know, you've got
• 19:36
  Speaker 4: lactation specialists. The baby's not latching.
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: I got you.
• 19:39
  Speaker 4: It's just so much pressure. So a lot of what
• 19:41
  Speaker 4: I talk about with women, if they want more support,
• 19:44
  Speaker 4: is take the pressure off. Like good enough is good enough.
• 19:47
  Speaker 6: Is there can we talk about like the, is there
• 19:50
  Speaker 6: like a genetic thing where it's like, say if you
• 19:53
  Speaker 6: have all that, right? Like we're talking about things a
• 19:56
  Speaker 6: lot more now. You can plan the nurses, the nannies,
• 19:58
  Speaker 6: the sleep, all that, but then you still get to
• 20:01
  Speaker 6: some of the postpartum things. Is that something that like
• 20:06
  Speaker 6: can be passed down? Like your mom deals with it,
• 20:08
  Speaker 6: so then you dealt with it. So you've done everything
• 20:10
  Speaker 6: to try to fight it, but it still happens anyway.
• 20:12
  Speaker 6: Is that a thing as well?
• 20:13
  Speaker 4: It can be. Yeah, the unfortunate part is we don't
• 20:16
  Speaker 4: know what causes this experience in women. It could be genetic.
• 20:22
  Speaker 4: It definitely, we feel pretty confident that it's the hormonal
• 20:25
  Speaker 4: shift that some people are more sensitive to. But I
• 20:28
  Speaker 4: also think a lot about what's modeled, right? So what
• 20:32
  Speaker 4: am I saying here? If you saw generation after generation of,
• 20:38
  Speaker 4: women take on more than their share and now they're
• 20:41
  Speaker 4: irritable after birth or more tearful. Is this something that's
• 20:46
  Speaker 4: really postpartum blues? Yes, we would diagnose it as such.
• 20:49
  Speaker 4: But is it that you saw women overdo it, not
• 20:53
  Speaker 4: accept support, not expect the men in their lives to
• 20:58
  Speaker 4: step in and take care of the things that they
• 21:01
  Speaker 4: just are doing?
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: OK. Yeah.
• 21:04
  Speaker 4: So I often think like when we're talking genetics, How
• 21:07
  Speaker 4: much of it is really the family system passing on
• 21:10
  Speaker 4: certain behaviors? But for now, we don't know. I want
• 21:15
  Speaker 4: people to know what to look out for.
• 21:17
  Speaker 5: Can somebody experience postpartum psychosis and still have moments where
• 21:21
  Speaker 5: they look completely rational? Like they could be cooking dinner,
• 21:24
  Speaker 5: they're answering texts, taking care of the baby. That's what
• 21:27
  Speaker 5: they were saying in the Clancy case. They said that
• 21:29
  Speaker 5: she was functioning.
• 21:31
  Speaker 6: That's how the movies make it seem like that, too,
• 21:33
  Speaker 6: when they have these characters that have kind of like
• 21:36
  Speaker 6: the Lindsay Clancy case.
• 21:39
  Speaker 4: This is complicated. I'm privileged that I got to actually
• 21:43
  Speaker 4: see people who are ill. A lot of mental health
• 21:47
  Speaker 4: providers are psychiatric nurse practitioners, for example. There are people
• 21:52
  Speaker 4: who trained in psychiatry outside of great institutions like NYU. NYU,
• 21:56
  Speaker 4: by the way, is the VA hospital on First Avenue.
• 22:00
  Speaker 4: Bellevue Hospital.
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: Oh, wow.
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 22:02
  Speaker 4: So we're seeing like everything.
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 22:06
  Speaker 4: And that's where I got to see some of this.
• 22:08
  Speaker 4: And then the hospital next door, Tish.
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: Bellevue is a psychiatric hospital.
• 22:12
  Speaker 4: Yes. Yes. Notorious, right? Long Island, right?
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: It's Long Island.
• 22:17
  Speaker 4: No. So it's right on First Avenue in the city.
• 22:20
  Speaker 4: First and like.
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: Was it always there?
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: They never moved it?
• 22:23
  Speaker 4: Never moved.
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: Nope.
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: And did they close it down and shut it down
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: at one point? And the reason I'm asking is we
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: worked similar down there, down there one time. And I
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: feel like one time.
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: No, that was like a shelter.
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: That was a shelter. Next door.
• 22:36
  Speaker 4: There is a men's shelter next door. But no, Bellevue
• 22:38
  Speaker 4: has been, I mean, just, I could talk about a
• 22:42
  Speaker 4: lot of things I've seen there, but where I was
• 22:44
  Speaker 4: going with this is, If you don't really witness people
• 22:48
  Speaker 4: who are truly in that state, what we would call
• 22:51
  Speaker 4: like psychosis, you can pick up on things because you're
• 22:54
  Speaker 4: making the diagnosis based on what's the DSM, which is
• 22:57
  Speaker 4: like our psychiatric handbook, which is a collection of symptoms
• 23:01
  Speaker 4: that if they meet this collection or meet criteria, then
• 23:05
  Speaker 4: we call it that. So I've even found when I'm
• 23:08
  Speaker 4: working with someone who might be a therapist or a
• 23:12
  Speaker 4: nurse practitioner that that we don't see the symptoms the
• 23:15
  Speaker 4: same way. I don't like to fluff myself here, but
• 23:18
  Speaker 4: I'm also like, I really got to see it. Like
• 23:21
  Speaker 4: Bellevue has Rikers Island. There's a unit in that hospital.
• 23:25
  Speaker 4: So we're seeing people who are truly, truly ill. So no,
• 23:28
  Speaker 4: like people who have postpartum psychosis, from what I've witnessed,
• 23:32
  Speaker 4: they're bizarre. They are muttering to themselves. Part of when
• 23:38
  Speaker 4: someone is psychotic, if they have that experience, They're not
• 23:41
  Speaker 4: really taking good care of themselves. That's a disorganization. So
• 23:44
  Speaker 4: the hygiene might be down. They may be even like
• 23:47
  Speaker 4: styling themselves kind of oddly.
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: Why don't they take the baby away during those times?
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: You do.
• 23:52
  Speaker 4: You should.
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: And not family members. I'm talking about.
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: Doctors like the baby needs to go until she's.
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: Well, the doctor has to know what's happening to the.
• 24:01
  Speaker 4: Doctor has to know it. Also, the states. you know,
• 24:04
  Speaker 4: the state that you are in, their mental health hygiene
• 24:07
  Speaker 4: laws really set the stage for whether or not they
• 24:10
  Speaker 4: can involuntarily admit you. Like I said, New York is,
• 24:13
  Speaker 4: is pretty strong on, I mean, we were admitting people
• 24:17
  Speaker 4: coming in with schizophrenia because they weren't taking care of
• 24:19
  Speaker 4: themselves and that helps the community, but also we get
• 24:22
  Speaker 4: them treated and then we move them down and sort
• 24:24
  Speaker 4: of the level of care to ideally not continue to
• 24:27
  Speaker 4: live on the streets with like severe mental illness. But
• 24:29
  Speaker 4: if you're in like Texas, you know, I don't know
• 24:31
  Speaker 4: their laws. It might be a little bit harder to,
• 24:34
  Speaker 4: for the psychiatrist to actually have the authority to involuntarily
• 24:37
  Speaker 4: admit you. They may not have enough units. So this
• 24:40
  Speaker 4: is also a bit of like an advocacy issue.
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: Too, right?
• 24:43
  Speaker 4: In New York, I mean, you're getting admitted without a doubt.
• 24:48
  Speaker 4: You're getting admitted. That baby is going to have to
• 24:50
  Speaker 4: be with family until we treat you because it's a risk.
• 24:54
  Speaker 4: You could kill that baby. You could kill your baby.
• 24:58
  Speaker 4: In other states, again, I don't know what they have
• 25:00
  Speaker 4: going on, but you'll find that it's state dependent.
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: Got you.
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting, right?
• 25:06
  Speaker 5: Because even with that case and everything you're saying, like
• 25:11
  Speaker 5: they said she did ask for help.
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: Like they said she asked for help.
• 25:13
  Speaker 5: She had a lot of contact with mental health providers before,
• 25:17
  Speaker 5: you know, she did what she did to her kids.
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: Did she do it? Yes, she did it, right? Yes,
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: she did.
• 25:21
  Speaker 4: I think she did it.
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: What does that.
• 25:23
  Speaker 5: Case teach us about the difference between having access to
• 25:26
  Speaker 5: care and actually receiving.
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: The right care?
• 25:28
  Speaker 4: Great question. So this goes to quality, right? The quality
• 25:32
  Speaker 4: of care. So even when I'm like running my private practice,
• 25:35
  Speaker 4: that's a part of the language I communicate is that
• 25:38
  Speaker 4: I'm not just your doctor treating you. You're getting quality care,
• 25:42
  Speaker 4: which goes back to the training. Again, I picked NYU
• 25:46
  Speaker 4: because I knew I would see everything and that would
• 25:49
  Speaker 4: make me more confident in my diagnostic skills and then
• 25:52
  Speaker 4: knowing how to treat. So this is also the sort
• 25:55
  Speaker 4: of unfortunate, ugly side of mental health treatment in this country,
• 26:00
  Speaker 4: which I think is evolving. I'm glad we're talking about it.
• 26:02
  Speaker 4: I'm glad you've been spearheading making this something that our
• 26:05
  Speaker 4: community really focuses on. But it's just going to depend
• 26:08
  Speaker 4: on what you get.
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 26:09
  Speaker 4: You might sit across from someone who where they train.
• 26:12
  Speaker 4: They never saw someone come in with schizophrenia. So they're
• 26:14
  Speaker 4: really relying on the handbook. Right. They may have never
• 26:17
  Speaker 4: seen a woman come in with postpartum psychosis. When you
• 26:20
  Speaker 4: see it, you know it. They may have never seen
• 26:22
  Speaker 4: someone come in with bipolar disorder. So it's harder to
• 26:25
  Speaker 4: call it. They also might not feel comfortable to take
• 26:28
  Speaker 4: away your rights or to say, like, we're going to
• 26:30
  Speaker 4: hospitalize you. So the difference, unfortunately, is where people train,
• 26:35
  Speaker 4: their comfort level in the medication. You know, if you've
• 26:39
  Speaker 4: got a lot of medication going on, that's usually not ideal.
• 26:43
  Speaker 4: From my perspective, that's kind of a red flag. Like,
• 26:45
  Speaker 4: what are we targeting, right? Patients shouldn't be on multiple medications.
• 26:50
  Speaker 4: They should have closer follow-up. So there's not really a
• 26:53
  Speaker 4: standardized way of treatment because also in the U.S., I
• 26:58
  Speaker 4: don't want to sound like I'm bashing nurse practitioners. I
• 27:00
  Speaker 4: know they're going to be in my comments later, but
• 27:03
  Speaker 4: the training is just so limited. Right. And I've worked
• 27:06
  Speaker 4: with people. I'm like, why would you prescribe that for this?
• 27:10
  Speaker 4: And it just, it just tells me that they don't
• 27:11
  Speaker 4: have enough experience and you get to, you get to
• 27:15
  Speaker 4: kind of do your thing.
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: Do you get nervous at all? Like when you, because
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: I'm thinking about some of the people that you have
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: to deal with.
• 27:22
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: And you never know when they're going to, jump, when
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: they're going to attack you, when they're going to have
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: an outbreak, right? When they're going to snap. Like I
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: think about the lady that the NYPD shot a couple
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: of weeks ago, right? The lady that had the two knives,
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: she stabbed two people and you could tell she was
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: having an outbreak. I was wondering, when you meet with
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: these people, do you pat them down? Do they go
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: through security? Like these are all real questions because it's
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: just y'all two in a room and who's to say
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: that somebody doesn't snap?
• 27:50
  Speaker 4: Yeah, great question. So again, where I trained, because there
• 27:53
  Speaker 4: was a lot of just severe mental illness. So we're
• 27:56
  Speaker 4: talking about like schizophrenia, schizoaffective, where people have lost touch
• 28:01
  Speaker 4: with reality.
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: Even women that you said postpartum that could just snap.
• 28:05
  Speaker 4: Yes. We were taught how to position ourselves in the room.
• 28:10
  Speaker 4: We were taught if someone is really appearing like psychotic
• 28:14
  Speaker 4: and not really attached with reality, we don't have to
• 28:16
  Speaker 4: even go in to have a deeper discussion about why
• 28:19
  Speaker 4: you're here. We just move forward with treatment. I have
• 28:23
  Speaker 4: worked a job that I left because I felt like
• 28:26
  Speaker 4: I was like, these people are just coming back to
• 28:28
  Speaker 4: my office. Right. Like what is going on with security here?
• 28:32
  Speaker 4: So it's something to actually consider and think about. But
• 28:36
  Speaker 4: where I was before, there'd be a police officer on
• 28:39
  Speaker 4: the floor. You know, I think a lot about the clerks.
• 28:42
  Speaker 4: They don't necessarily get that barrier because they're the first
• 28:45
  Speaker 4: person meeting. But, yeah, there'd be like a call button
• 28:49
  Speaker 4: in the room if we needed it. You know, you
• 28:51
  Speaker 4: don't position yourself where they're closer to the door. You
• 28:53
  Speaker 4: want to be closer to the door so you can
• 28:55
  Speaker 4: get out of there. Some hospitals do have, you know,
• 29:00
  Speaker 4: you walk through a metal detector, but it's a risk.
• 29:03
  Speaker 4: I think that you take. But again, I just feel
• 29:06
  Speaker 4: so confident in what I've seen that I'm going to
• 29:09
  Speaker 4: be able to clock right away. The like sun is off.
• 29:13
  Speaker 4: People aren't like the movies where they disappear lucid and like.
• 29:16
  Speaker 4: then they attack you. They're usually, you can start to
• 29:19
  Speaker 4: see the signs. They look internally preoccupied, like they're hearing
• 29:22
  Speaker 4: something or they're like delusional in what they talk about
• 29:26
  Speaker 4: or they're starting to talk in this way. We call
• 29:29
  Speaker 4: it like homicidal ideation where they're maybe talking about hurting people.
• 29:33
  Speaker 4: You take that very seriously. At least I do.
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: You know, it's so interesting.
• 29:36
  Speaker 5: I'm glad you said what you said about psychosis because,
• 29:39
  Speaker 5: you know, yeah, I know people who will know that
• 29:42
  Speaker 5: I know what I'm talking about in this particular situation.
• 29:44
  Speaker 5: There's a person I know who knows I'm a mental
• 29:47
  Speaker 5: health advocate, right? And they were allegedly going through psychosis,
• 29:52
  Speaker 5: manic behavior. And I kept telling people, like, I don't
• 29:55
  Speaker 5: think so. I think he know exactly what he's doing
• 29:57
  Speaker 5: and he's manipulating us. And he sent me a text
• 29:59
  Speaker 5: and he said, now that you know that I'm sick,
• 30:02
  Speaker 5: shouldn't you be sticking by me? And I was like,
• 30:04
  Speaker 5: ain't nothing wrong with this motherfucker if you can say
• 30:06
  Speaker 5: some shit like that to me.
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: Didn't I tell you that?
• 30:07
  Speaker 5: I told him, I was like, there's nothing wrong with
• 30:10
  Speaker 5: him if he can say this to me. So I'm
• 30:11
  Speaker 5: glad you said that. Because I got other people telling me, no,
• 30:13
  Speaker 5: he's going through psychosis. I'm like, no, not if you
• 30:15
  Speaker 5: can tell me that.
• 30:16
  Speaker 4: Yeah. You know, just walk around the city. Yes. Right?
• 30:21
  Speaker 6: Yes.
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: We see it every morning.
• 30:22
  Speaker 4: I mean, they don't look like they know you're there. Right? Right. Now,
• 30:26
  Speaker 4: some people can be so consumed by their psychotic experience.
• 30:30
  Speaker 4: They're hearing voices. They're convinced someone's going to get them.
• 30:33
  Speaker 4: You do want to give your space. Like if someone's
• 30:34
  Speaker 4: behaving erratically, they're moving around all weird, they're brandishing something,
• 30:39
  Speaker 4: some sort of weapon. Like that is that's an emergency. But,
• 30:43
  Speaker 4: you know, I think it's it's really subtle and how
• 30:46
  Speaker 4: people cry for help. Right. So I don't know if
• 30:51
  Speaker 4: this person is dealing with something that's more like trauma
• 30:54
  Speaker 4: related or maybe trying to find. support through someone like you,
• 30:58
  Speaker 4: but psychosis is profound. They're in their head. And you
• 31:04
  Speaker 4: could just see it. Like I said, you just walk
• 31:05
  Speaker 4: around the city. Why is the.
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: City so bad? And why does it feel like the government,
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: the state, is not doing anything about it? It seems
• 31:15
  Speaker 3: like it's getting worse, especially in New York City. When
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: I say worse, worse. And this is not just... Quiet.
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: This is loud people yelling and screaming. And yesterday there
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: was a guy that he dropped a woman's purse on
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: the floor.
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: And when women would look down at it, he'd just
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: yell at them.
• 31:31
  Speaker 4: Again, I think it's just a complicated relationship between the
• 31:34
  Speaker 4: mental health hygiene laws. And then we're so accustomed to
• 31:38
  Speaker 4: it in the city. You just kind of like cross
• 31:40
  Speaker 4: the street, get out of the way. But, you know,
• 31:42
  Speaker 4: if someone is really behaving oddly, you can absolutely call. Here,
• 31:46
  Speaker 4: I think they do a better job at police. I mean,
• 31:49
  Speaker 4: I think they do a better job at calling someone
• 31:52
  Speaker 4: like EDP, an emotionally disturbed person. They'll come into Bellevue.
• 31:55
  Speaker 4: That's where we see them. And then sometimes, you know,
• 31:58
  Speaker 4: when we treat, the issue is also people don't want
• 32:00
  Speaker 4: to stay on the medication. Antipsychotics are, they're tough to take.
• 32:05
  Speaker 4: People gain weight. People lose sex drive. Um, some people
• 32:10
  Speaker 4: may lactate some, some of these medications. They may start
• 32:13
  Speaker 4: to also develop diabetes. People might feel a little bit
• 32:16
  Speaker 4: too subdued, drowsy. So it's, it's hard if you have
• 32:20
  Speaker 4: a severe mental illness to continue taking things like antipsychotics.
• 32:24
  Speaker 4: So it's not unusual for these people to kind of revolve.
• 32:27
  Speaker 4: And then with schizophrenia, which is a form of a
• 32:30
  Speaker 4: psychotic illness, there's a downward drift in society. So because
• 32:33
  Speaker 4: they lose, it's called abolition. They like lose the drive, um,
• 32:36
  Speaker 4: to care about the things we care about, like hygiene,
• 32:40
  Speaker 4: finding a relationship, working. So that's why they kind of
• 32:42
  Speaker 4: end up on the streets. So, you know, what do
• 32:47
  Speaker 4: you do with people? We have a lot of shelters
• 32:50
  Speaker 4: throughout the city, and they can get treatment there. They
• 32:52
  Speaker 4: can get access to, like, single-room occupancy. So there's a
• 32:54
  Speaker 4: lot of behind-the-scenes work going. But what I've noticed just
• 32:58
  Speaker 4: getting to work with people is they don't always want
• 33:00
  Speaker 4: the help. Sometimes they're just like, I'm done with these meds.
• 33:03
  Speaker 4: You know, look, they made me have this, like, weird movement.
• 33:05
  Speaker 4: If you see someone, like, lip-smacking— that's a side effect
• 33:09
  Speaker 4: of the medication or their fingers kind of move weird. So,
• 33:11
  Speaker 4: so people, and it's not treatable, it's treatable, but you
• 33:14
  Speaker 4: can't really give remission. So it's just a long road.
• 33:20
  Speaker 4: And the city is a great place to come and
• 33:21
  Speaker 4: kind of cover it up because they're just, there's a
• 33:23
  Speaker 4: lot here, you know.
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: Somebody will ignore you. Yeah.
• 33:27
  Speaker 4: They won't see you. Somebody will hand you food. There's
• 33:29
  Speaker 4: a shelter you can pop into. Whereas if you're in
• 33:31
  Speaker 4: the more rural areas, your family might take you in
• 33:35
  Speaker 4: and you're just kind of that cousin in the back
• 33:36
  Speaker 4: room that's weird.
• 33:38
  Speaker 6: How do you deal with people if they come to you, right?
• 33:40
  Speaker 6: Like if someone gets a mom, like let's say a
• 33:42
  Speaker 6: black mother, right? Because I was reading something that the
• 33:45
  Speaker 6: American Psychological Association did and they talk about how postpartum
• 33:51
  Speaker 6: and a lot of the mental health things, like black
• 33:52
  Speaker 6: women deal with it a lot differently.
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: Than white women. Like we are affected at a larger rate.
• 33:57
  Speaker 6: If someone pushes a mother to come in, say she's
• 33:59
  Speaker 6: a black mother, And she's like, I'm only here because
• 34:02
  Speaker 6: my mom made me come here. And you see that
• 34:04
  Speaker 6: she really needs the help. But she's like, no, I'm good.
• 34:06
  Speaker 6: I don't want the help. Right. Like people on the streets,
• 34:09
  Speaker 6: you see them, you know, they need the help. How
• 34:11
  Speaker 6: do you what do you do if they don't want
• 34:13
  Speaker 6: to do it?
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: Like.
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you can't keep them locked up. You can't like
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: how does that what's the resolve?
• 34:19
  Speaker 4: It's it becomes a long process of really it's hard.
• 34:23
  Speaker 4: Like so what the approach I end up taking once
• 34:26
  Speaker 4: I start to see there's resistance, I'm just here because
• 34:28
  Speaker 4: somebody pushed me to be here. is now I'm like,
• 34:31
  Speaker 4: oh gosh, now I got to focus on building rapport.
• 34:34
  Speaker 4: I got to get them to kind of lock in
• 34:36
  Speaker 4: with us as like, you know, therapeutic doctor-patient relationship. It's
• 34:42
  Speaker 4: going to take time. I've got to get them to
• 34:44
  Speaker 4: talk to me and tell me like what their reservations are.
• 34:46
  Speaker 4: Usually it's stigma. Usually it's, I don't want the medications
• 34:50
  Speaker 4: to affect me or I can do this. So it
• 34:52
  Speaker 4: just becomes a process of trying to like lead them
• 34:55
  Speaker 4: to the water. So I do think it's great for
• 34:57
  Speaker 4: families to really encourage it. go to the appointments. And
• 35:00
  Speaker 4: then the doctor has to have the ability to be
• 35:02
  Speaker 4: patient in the relationship to start to see if they
• 35:06
  Speaker 4: can like, you know, connect enough that now we can
• 35:09
  Speaker 4: say it's time. Why don't you think about it? That's
• 35:12
  Speaker 4: a lot of what I do. Most of what I'm
• 35:13
  Speaker 4: doing is trying to get people to be okay with like,
• 35:17
  Speaker 4: we're okay. I know it's a lot to be here.
• 35:20
  Speaker 4: We'll try the medication. It's a tool. If it doesn't work,
• 35:22
  Speaker 4: we stop it. You're going to be yourself. But look
• 35:25
  Speaker 4: at the effects, right? Now you're not going to be
• 35:27
  Speaker 4: able to go back to work. Or you haven't been
• 35:29
  Speaker 4: able to connect with your baby.
• 35:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 35:30
  Speaker 4: But it takes time.
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: It's such a rolling the dice thing, having a baby.
• 35:34
  Speaker 5: What you just said about connecting with the baby, is
• 35:36
  Speaker 5: the phrase maternal instinct damaging? Because it kind of suggests
• 35:42
  Speaker 5: that a woman should just naturally know how to mother.
• 35:44
  Speaker 5: You should just naturally have a bond. And then if
• 35:47
  Speaker 5: she doesn't, then she probably feels like something.
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: Is wrong with her.
• 35:50
  Speaker 4: I think so. I think any title that puts pressure
• 35:53
  Speaker 4: on us, if you feel the pressure, drop it.
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
• 35:58
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think you're right. Maternal instinct. I mean, if
• 36:00
  Speaker 4: you've never, I, so I never had to care for
• 36:03
  Speaker 4: any body. I didn't have younger siblings. I have a
• 36:06
  Speaker 4: younger sibling, but he was like four years younger. So
• 36:08
  Speaker 4: when I have this baby, I'm like, I don't know
• 36:10
  Speaker 4: what I'm doing. You're leaving me with this, this thing.
• 36:15
  Speaker 4: How do I have no, we're supposed to feed him
• 36:17
  Speaker 4: right now.
• 36:18
  Speaker 5: What?
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 36:20
  Speaker 4: I think that's something that if it's, if it's not
• 36:22
  Speaker 4: helping you drop it, maternal instinct, what does that mean?
• 36:25
  Speaker 4: You know?
• 36:27
  Speaker 6: How do you talk those first time moms through that though? Like,
• 36:30
  Speaker 6: I mean, you have your own experience, but I have
• 36:32
  Speaker 6: a friend who we went out the other day and
• 36:35
  Speaker 6: she was saying to me to just make sure that
• 36:37
  Speaker 6: I'm in the right head space before I have my baby.
• 36:40
  Speaker 6: And I'm like, how do I know what, like, how
• 36:42
  Speaker 6: do I prepare for that? It's not like you go
• 36:44
  Speaker 6: like pregame for it. Like, what do I, like, what
• 36:46
  Speaker 6: is the right head space? Cause she said for her,
• 36:48
  Speaker 6: her life changed so much and she, she didn't, she
• 36:51
  Speaker 6: There was no way that she could have prepared what
• 36:53
  Speaker 6: it did to her mentally because the only way her
• 36:55
  Speaker 6: baby communicates to her is through tears. And she said
• 36:59
  Speaker 6: that there's so much anxiety of, I don't know if
• 37:02
  Speaker 6: I'm even doing the right thing, no matter.
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: Who I call.
• 37:05
  Speaker 6: And her baby's a bit older now, but she still
• 37:08
  Speaker 6: feels that way.
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: How do you prepare for that?
• 37:12
  Speaker 4: I don't really know the best way for people to
• 37:16
  Speaker 4: prepare beyond that. talking to other mothers. Like, you know,
• 37:20
  Speaker 4: it sounds like this friend is giving you some insight.
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: She scared the hell out of me.
• 37:24
  Speaker 4: Birth control is like the best form talking to other mothers. It's,
• 37:28
  Speaker 4: it's really, I think being, being honest about like, this
• 37:30
  Speaker 4: is something I want to do and starting to like
• 37:33
  Speaker 4: communicate with other moms. Like I was similar. I didn't
• 37:35
  Speaker 4: realize what I was getting myself into, so to speak like, Oh,
• 37:38
  Speaker 4: this is a real 24 seven around the clock. These
• 37:41
  Speaker 4: babies have demands. Um, But I wonder when she says
• 37:45
  Speaker 4: the right headspace, it's just like really being aware that
• 37:48
  Speaker 4: it's a night and day transition, right? From just focusing
• 37:51
  Speaker 4: on your own needs, making sure you look good and
• 37:53
  Speaker 4: feel good to a lot of times there's no time
• 37:56
  Speaker 4: for that. I feel like I'm just getting back to
• 37:59
  Speaker 4: like getting to focus on myself because I was really
• 38:01
  Speaker 4: hyper focused on the caretaking and there's a lot of anxiety.
• 38:04
  Speaker 4: I know we didn't really get to touch on that,
• 38:06
  Speaker 4: but anxiety is absolutely a part of what many women
• 38:09
  Speaker 4: develop if they didn't have before. There's so much. The
• 38:13
  Speaker 4: way the pediatrician visits go. They want you to focus
• 38:16
  Speaker 4: on everything. How's the weight? And I find I actually
• 38:19
  Speaker 4: prefer working with a pediatrician who's had their own kids
• 38:22
  Speaker 4: because they tend to be a little bit like, it's fine.
• 38:25
  Speaker 5: When you say anxiety, you're talking about, because I call
• 38:26
  Speaker 5: it parental paranoia, right? It's that anxiety that comes with
• 38:29
  Speaker 5: being a parent. You're talking about something outside of that? This.
• 38:32
  Speaker 4: Yeah, like the parental part of it. But for some people,
• 38:35
  Speaker 4: it tips more into now they're worrying all the time.
• 38:38
  Speaker 4: They can't really turn it off. They're ruminating, which is
• 38:41
  Speaker 4: like the thoughts stuck on the loop. You're like, it's fine.
• 38:44
  Speaker 4: I've got the baby. But they're worried like, you know,
• 38:47
  Speaker 4: their partner may not do it right because they've absorbed
• 38:50
  Speaker 4: being like the perfect mother, the maternal instinct, the pediatrician
• 38:53
  Speaker 4: is saying, make sure that. So if the anxiety is
• 38:57
  Speaker 4: occurring to the degree where you can't shut it off,
• 39:01
  Speaker 4: you can't really sleep, you're feeling nervous on edge, you're
• 39:03
  Speaker 4: having panic attacks, you have to smoke weed now so
• 39:06
  Speaker 4: that you can feel relaxed. That's different than like the
• 39:08
  Speaker 4: parental paranoia, as you described, which is normal. Right. It
• 39:11
  Speaker 4: comes with like, are my kids OK at school? Is
• 39:14
  Speaker 4: it a good school? That sort of thing. But if
• 39:16
  Speaker 4: it's I can't stop thinking about it, we're talking more
• 39:19
  Speaker 4: of like an anxiety disorder.
• 39:21
  Speaker 3: But what do you suggest to those parents?
• 39:23
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 39:23
  Speaker 3: Because it's similar to what you said earlier, because this
• 39:26
  Speaker 3: is how I honestly, truly feel.
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: Right. You said Have you been lying this whole time?
• 39:30
  Speaker 4: No. No.
• 39:31
  Speaker 3: You said that sometimes, you know, you deal with a
• 39:35
  Speaker 3: doctor that does not have the experience that you might have, right?
• 39:38
  Speaker 3: That's the reason why you want to go to NYU,
• 39:40
  Speaker 3: because you see everything from this spectrum, right? From the worst, worst,
• 39:43
  Speaker 3: worst to the light, right? But now you have another
• 39:45
  Speaker 3: doctor that has a practice that lives out in New
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: Jersey and you take your son or your child, a pediatrician,
• 39:50
  Speaker 3: that hasn't seen anything. And now you're expecting this pediatrician
• 39:54
  Speaker 3: to know what's wrong with your child that maybe might
• 39:56
  Speaker 3: not have seen it. So what do they do? They
• 39:58
  Speaker 3: go into their handbook and they say, okay, this is
• 40:00
  Speaker 3: that thing.
• 40:00
  Speaker 4: Here, take a Tylenol.
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: It's trial and error.
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: Not child GPT.
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: No, it's the truth.
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: It'd be trial and error.
• 40:06
  Speaker 3: So what do you do in that situation? Because, yeah,
• 40:08
  Speaker 3: it is paranoia, but maybe that paranoia is needed. And
• 40:12
  Speaker 3: my example is the perfect, right? Took my daughter. My
• 40:15
  Speaker 3: daughter had a seizure one day, right? Had a fever
• 40:20
  Speaker 3: for longer than she should have, right?
• 40:24
  Speaker 4: Febrile seizure.
• 40:24
  Speaker 3: Took her to the doctor, right? Doctor in Jersey. Doctor said, okay, well,
• 40:28
  Speaker 3: there's nothing we can do. Keep giving her the Tylenol
• 40:31
  Speaker 3: and that's.
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: It, right?
• 40:33
  Speaker 3: Next day, still fever. Took her back. Took her back
• 40:35
  Speaker 3: to the pediatrician. Like I'm supposed to as a father
• 40:37
  Speaker 3: who's not a doctor and a mother who's not a doctor.
• 40:39
  Speaker 3: Took her there, same thing. She wound up having a seizure, right?
• 40:44
  Speaker 3: Took her to the hospital. Face blew up. Eyes swollen.
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: Crazy.
• 40:49
  Speaker 3: They did all types of scans. Couldn't break the fever.
• 40:54
  Speaker 3: So they told me that there was something on her
• 40:56
  Speaker 3: brain and she needed brain surgery.
• 40:57
  Speaker 4: Right?
• 41:00
  Speaker 3: I'm one of those people I don't trust nobody. Fuck that.
• 41:03
  Speaker 3: Who's the best doctors? The best doctors that handle this
• 41:05
  Speaker 3: was South Carolina. I called Charlemagne. Charlemagne, get me an
• 41:07
  Speaker 3: appointment with this doctor in South Carolina.
• 41:09
  Speaker 5: Right?
• 41:10
  Speaker 3: Before I did that, I said, let me take her
• 41:12
  Speaker 3: to NYU.
• 41:12
  Speaker 5: NYU.
• 41:14
  Speaker 3: Took her to the hospital at NYU. Doctor came and started,
• 41:17
  Speaker 3: I told the story, started laughing, right? When I took
• 41:19
  Speaker 3: him to NYU, I was like, what's so funny? He
• 41:21
  Speaker 3: was like, your daughter doesn't need brain surgery. She has
• 41:23
  Speaker 3: a sinus infection. But if I would have kept her
• 41:27
  Speaker 3: in Jersey, they would have did brain surgery. NYU, sinus surgery,
• 41:34
  Speaker 3: they sucked out everything, whatever it was, and instantly you
• 41:38
  Speaker 3: could see her eyes going back down. they told me
• 41:41
  Speaker 3: in New Jersey that she's going to have seizures all
• 41:43
  Speaker 3: the time.
• 41:44
  Speaker 4: Oh, Lord.
• 41:45
  Speaker 3: In the city, they said, no, she won't. This seizure
• 41:47
  Speaker 3: happened because of a fever that they should have taken.
• 41:49
  Speaker 4: Care of before.
• 41:50
  Speaker 3: But you see the difference?
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 41:51
  Speaker 3: If I would have kept her in Jersey, she might
• 41:53
  Speaker 3: not be here. But what do you tell a parent
• 41:56
  Speaker 3: in that situation? Because the paranoia that I had made
• 41:59
  Speaker 3: me get another doctor and a second opinion. And this
• 42:02
  Speaker 3: was the ninth inning. This was It was snowing outside.
• 42:06
  Speaker 3: You know, they told me that they would have to
• 42:07
  Speaker 3: check insurance first. So I got to go in the morning.
• 42:09
  Speaker 3: I told them to F off. I'm going to if
• 42:11
  Speaker 3: I don't take it right now, I'm going to put
• 42:12
  Speaker 3: in my car ticket. Like it was a lot towards it.
• 42:15
  Speaker 3: But thank God I did. So what do you tell
• 42:17
  Speaker 3: those parents? Because it's called paranoia. But is it bad?
• 42:21
  Speaker 3: Because if I didn't have that, me and my wife
• 42:23
  Speaker 3: didn't have that paranoia, my baby might not have been here.
• 42:26
  Speaker 4: Trust your gut. Right. The paranoia is is it's more
• 42:30
  Speaker 4: of like now I'm going to get into feelings at
• 42:32
  Speaker 4: therapy site. I don't want to be called a therapist anymore,
• 42:34
  Speaker 4: by the way. I'm like, I'm a psychiatrist. We got
• 42:37
  Speaker 4: it right. Because what you're asking me to do is
• 42:39
  Speaker 4: talk about symptoms. So the paranoia, if we're going like
• 42:43
  Speaker 4: to feelings is anxiety, which is a common feeling. There's
• 42:46
  Speaker 4: really only four. I've said this before. Anger, sadness, fear
• 42:52
  Speaker 4: and joy. OK, so that fear is. is generating the
• 42:56
  Speaker 4: thoughts that something's wrong, I need more. That is different
• 43:00
  Speaker 4: than when we're talking a disorder, an anxiety disorder. You
• 43:04
  Speaker 4: go to your pediatrician, you're not in an emergency, I'm
• 43:06
  Speaker 4: glad your daughter's well, and that you trusted your paranoia,
• 43:09
  Speaker 4: the fear, your gut. But you go to a pediatrician
• 43:13
  Speaker 4: and they're saying, you know, it's fine, you don't need
• 43:15
  Speaker 4: to worry about trying to push more foods on your child,
• 43:18
  Speaker 4: just let them eat what they want to eat. If
• 43:19
  Speaker 4: you can't let that go, right, if you can't think
• 43:23
  Speaker 4: about anything else except is my child eating enough food
• 43:27
  Speaker 4: and you don't see like weight loss or these other signs.
• 43:30
  Speaker 4: The point I'm making here is, is it might be
• 43:32
  Speaker 4: a disorder if you can't drop it. And there's really
• 43:34
  Speaker 4: not this like emergency in front of you. Um, so
• 43:38
  Speaker 4: I think for parents trust the feeling and then with medicine,
• 43:44
  Speaker 4: I mean, sometimes you do need to continue to look
• 43:48
  Speaker 4: for the top hospital. There's a reason it's the top.
• 43:52
  Speaker 3: Um, And it sucks because sometimes insurance won't cover it.
• 43:55
  Speaker 3: It won't cover it. They only cover hospitals that's in
• 43:57
  Speaker 3: a certain area.
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: I used to have to take my.
• 44:00
  Speaker 3: Oh, never mind. I wish I did that. It's a
• 44:02
  Speaker 3: funny game how they play it. You got to go
• 44:04
  Speaker 3: to an emergency room.
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: I wasn't playing.
• 44:06
  Speaker 6: They was not trying to operate on my mom's brain
• 44:08
  Speaker 6: and I knew something was wrong. I'm not leaving this
• 44:10
  Speaker 6: hospital until y'all figure this out. We will leave and
• 44:12
  Speaker 6: come back. But I am not leaving. But they would
• 44:14
  Speaker 6: not do it because they were like, It was insurances.
• 44:17
  Speaker 6: It was all this stuff. You really have to fight through.
• 44:20
  Speaker 6: So it's a weird balance when my mom can tell me.
• 44:23
  Speaker 6: And I've known my mom for 34 years, so I
• 44:25
  Speaker 6: know what's right and what's wrong. But if your baby's
• 44:28
  Speaker 6: brand new, that's what my friend is feeling. She's like, yo,
• 44:30
  Speaker 6: sometimes I know something's wrong with my baby, but it's like,
• 44:34
  Speaker 6: I don't even know what's wrong because the baby can't
• 44:36
  Speaker 6: tell you. And I just met my baby. So now
• 44:38
  Speaker 6: she's going crazy because she's like, if I miss it,
• 44:41
  Speaker 6: my baby might not be here.
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: But am I overthinking it?
• 44:44
  Speaker 6: When she was talking to me, I'm like, girl, I'm
• 44:46
  Speaker 6: just happy you're here for happy hour right now. Because
• 44:48
  Speaker 6: it's like, what do you do?
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: Drink.
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: Drink.
• 44:51
  Speaker 3: Drink, my friend.
• 44:53
  Speaker 4: No.
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: She's coming up out of it. But my point is
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: that she needed a break. She needed a day to
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: just be able to think past all of that. She's
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: in it.
• 45:04
  Speaker 6: Currently, right now, her baby's a newborn. She doesn't get
• 45:06
  Speaker 6: a lot of time outside. Her or my best friend,
• 45:09
  Speaker 6: they don't get a lot of time out.
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: It's tough.
• 45:11
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 45:13
  Speaker 4: I think it's just, again, how long it's happening. Experiences
• 45:17
  Speaker 4: are absolutely going to generate fear. You have to trust it.
• 45:20
  Speaker 4: You have to be persistent in health care. I mean,
• 45:22
  Speaker 4: that's probably a whole other conversation. I'd love to keep
• 45:25
  Speaker 4: coming back and kind of even untangling medicine in general.
• 45:30
  Speaker 4: But yeah, you'll go into a hospital. Maybe it's the top.
• 45:32
  Speaker 4: They don't. Your insurance ain't insurance enough for them and
• 45:35
  Speaker 4: they don't want to let you access the treatment. So
• 45:37
  Speaker 4: you have to advocate. I actually have been an advocate
• 45:40
  Speaker 4: for my family often. I'm like, I need to make
• 45:41
  Speaker 4: this a business where I'm calling and getting the doctor
• 45:46
  Speaker 4: kind of discussion going and saying, no, you need to
• 45:48
  Speaker 4: actually advocate for them to stay. So I might launch that.
• 45:51
  Speaker 4: But what do you do? Trust, be persistent. But now
• 45:55
  Speaker 4: when you're getting in front of a psychiatrist, it's usually
• 45:58
  Speaker 4: because there's just there's way there's way more going on.
• 46:01
  Speaker 4: The breaks aren't helping you to resolve the anxiety. You're
• 46:05
  Speaker 4: getting the reassurance and it's still not helping.
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 46:09
  Speaker 4: It's just a tricky balance between the feeling generating this action,
• 46:14
  Speaker 4: but then when it becomes more of a disorder. And
• 46:18
  Speaker 4: that's usually what I'm helping people to figure out.
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 46:20
  Speaker 4: The best way to manage it in general, though, is
• 46:22
  Speaker 4: keeping stress low. So it's wonderful that you're there for
• 46:25
  Speaker 4: your friend and letting her have some time for you
• 46:28
  Speaker 4: to also reality test when you're like, girl, no, you're
• 46:30
  Speaker 4: a great mom. What can I do to be supportive
• 46:34
  Speaker 4: of you? I got you out. Let's just enjoy the night,
• 46:36
  Speaker 4: have our apps and a couple of drinks. That helps
• 46:39
  Speaker 4: someone also who's really anxious maintain that touch with reality
• 46:43
  Speaker 4: because you're like, no, that sounds like a lot. I
• 46:45
  Speaker 4: think you should actually look for a second opinion. I
• 46:47
  Speaker 4: give second opinions all the time. A lot of people
• 46:50
  Speaker 4: land in my private practice because they want to go
• 46:52
  Speaker 4: over their meds again. They want to just make sure.
• 46:54
  Speaker 4: So you just have to be proactive and advocate and
• 46:58
  Speaker 4: trust your gut.
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: As a doctor, right? I want to go back to
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: the Clancy case.
• 47:05
  Speaker 5: Does it concern you when these type of tragedies become like,
• 47:08
  Speaker 5: the public's primary.
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: Image of postpartum psychosis.
• 47:10
  Speaker 5: Like I said, I never even heard of postpartum psychosis
• 47:13
  Speaker 5: until this case.
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: But is that normal? Like, does this happen more often
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: than we know?
• 47:20
  Speaker 4: So I agree with you that this isn't ideally just, again,
• 47:24
  Speaker 4: looking at the periphery of the case, and I know
• 47:27
  Speaker 4: that I think the prosecution had someone who also, that they,
• 47:30
  Speaker 4: you know, a forensic psychiatrist who thought that the symptoms
• 47:34
  Speaker 4: weren't so consistent. Um, with postpartum, when I look at
• 47:39
  Speaker 4: it and the, you know, the, the youngest is eight months, it's, it's,
• 47:43
  Speaker 4: it doesn't fit the textbook and it doesn't really fit
• 47:46
  Speaker 4: what I've seen, um, where people are coming in early.
• 47:50
  Speaker 4: Like this is still a newborn infant. Um, so I
• 47:55
  Speaker 4: don't like that that becomes the stage for what symptoms
• 47:58
  Speaker 4: would look like, but unfortunately, because mental health is so,
• 48:02
  Speaker 4: it's so damn confusing in general, it's easy for this
• 48:05
  Speaker 4: to become the focus. And I even saw doctors come
• 48:08
  Speaker 4: on shows, which is also why I said, I need
• 48:10
  Speaker 4: to come on here. And I just thought it was
• 48:13
  Speaker 4: so odd that the focus was really just talking about
• 48:15
  Speaker 4: postpartum psychosis rather than even just talking about mental health
• 48:19
  Speaker 4: in general or how we can support moms because it
• 48:22
  Speaker 4: is confusing. Eight months is not typically the window when
• 48:26
  Speaker 4: someone is in a postpartum psychosis. This could be bipolar
• 48:32
  Speaker 4: disorder at this point. This could be a depression with
• 48:34
  Speaker 4: psychotic figures. features, excuse me, but postpartum psychosis, that's a
• 48:41
  Speaker 4: very specific window of time that we're looking at it. And,
• 48:45
  Speaker 4: you know, apparently, you know, the defense has got to
• 48:48
  Speaker 4: come up with a case.
• 48:49
  Speaker 3: That's at the precedent, though, for more cases like that.
• 48:52
  Speaker 3: Now it's like they can look at that case and say, hey,
• 48:57
  Speaker 3: we've seen it happen here.
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: Case study.
• 48:59
  Speaker 3: Case by case.
• 48:59
  Speaker 4: I think it does. That's a central conflict also in psychiatry.
• 49:06
  Speaker 4: If the defense hires you, you're over here making this claim.
• 49:09
  Speaker 4: If the prosecution hires you, you're over here making this claim.
• 49:13
  Speaker 4: I wonder what it would be like if the court
• 49:15
  Speaker 4: appointed someone that's more in the middle and there's no
• 49:18
  Speaker 4: representation from both sides. I don't remember this woman's name.
• 49:23
  Speaker 4: I said I wanted to say it on air. Her
• 49:24
  Speaker 4: children are also dead. But also this case also says
• 49:28
  Speaker 4: a lot about race.
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: The black one?
• 49:30
  Speaker 4: Latasha something. I think she.
• 49:34
  Speaker 3: Was found guilty. She was found guilty. And it was
• 49:36
  Speaker 3: the same.
• 49:38
  Speaker 4: The judge didn't allow her mental health records to be
• 49:40
  Speaker 4: a part of it.
• 49:42
  Speaker 6: That's why I brought up the point about the black
• 49:43
  Speaker 6: mother because a lot of, the fact that she even
• 49:46
  Speaker 6: had records was like, okay, I'm happy she has it
• 49:49
  Speaker 6: to try and show this. But what I was reading
• 49:52
  Speaker 6: was a lot of times with black moms in that state,
• 49:55
  Speaker 6: they don't even have the paper trail leading because they
• 49:58
  Speaker 6: won't stay to get the help or they think it's
• 50:01
  Speaker 6: normal because they're watching their moms just figure it out.
• 50:03
  Speaker 3: They don't have the insurance.
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: Latasha Sanders? Yes. Yeah, Latasha Sanders.
• 50:07
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah. I'm glad we're talking about mental health because
• 50:13
  Speaker 4: it's again, going to help people start to recognize it's real.
• 50:16
  Speaker 4: This is probably one of the only experiences outside of
• 50:19
  Speaker 4: physical health. Although we also don't like to acknowledge when
• 50:22
  Speaker 4: we have high blood pressure. I know a lot of
• 50:23
  Speaker 4: people walk around with.
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: High blood pressure. I got the machine at the house. Okay.
• 50:27
  Speaker 5: Good.
• 50:28
  Speaker 4: But, but there's also like, it's like a health literacy
• 50:30
  Speaker 4: issue where people just don't know. And then there's like
• 50:33
  Speaker 4: a endurance, you know, I can push through it. I
• 50:36
  Speaker 4: could just be stronger. Um, There's also they're running into
• 50:40
  Speaker 4: doctors who may not make them feel validated. Like, don't
• 50:43
  Speaker 4: take the time. Like, I might just because, you know,
• 50:45
  Speaker 4: I want I really want to help people. And they're
• 50:48
  Speaker 4: out the door or they were starting on a medication.
• 50:50
  Speaker 4: The dose was too high. So it's just such a
• 50:52
  Speaker 4: delicate process. But, yes, black people are going to have
• 50:58
  Speaker 4: lower rates of access to care, to quality care. They're
• 51:01
  Speaker 4: going to come in when they're sicker because we're all
• 51:04
  Speaker 4: sort of conditioned to endure and be strong and you
• 51:08
  Speaker 4: can handle it. But all of that contributes to stress
• 51:12
  Speaker 4: and stress absolutely sets people up for mental health triggers, right?
• 51:18
  Speaker 4: For anxiety, for depression. It's just so much. I'm pausing
• 51:24
  Speaker 4: here because I'm like, it's just a big tangled mess.
• 51:26
  Speaker 4: The best thing to do is really to just try
• 51:28
  Speaker 4: to accept when you need support, accept it, and then
• 51:33
  Speaker 4: you got to work to find the right treatment team
• 51:35
  Speaker 4: to help you manage the symptoms.
• 51:38
  Speaker 6: That's even if you're just in the space to receive
• 51:39
  Speaker 6: all that. No, you're right. There's so many people I
• 51:43
  Speaker 6: know that they're living with so much day-to-day that this
• 51:49
  Speaker 6: is not... They're not talking about postpartum and what doctors
• 51:52
  Speaker 6: I'm going to go see or whatever.
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: It's not even a thing for them.
• 51:56
  Speaker 6: They might know about it because they watch it on
• 51:58
  Speaker 6: Breakfast Club.
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: Luckily, you're here. But they don't have the time, the energy.
• 52:01
  Speaker 6: And if they do go to the doctors, it's the
• 52:03
  Speaker 6: one that they can get to across the street from them.
• 52:04
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think I think you all
• 52:07
  Speaker 4: are doing the work and trying to normalize it by
• 52:11
  Speaker 4: making this, you know, an extended conversation. I was thinking
• 52:14
  Speaker 4: we're going to be here for like 10 minutes, you know,
• 52:16
  Speaker 4: go over it. Because what you're doing is letting someone
• 52:19
  Speaker 4: listening in really reflect on their experience and then hearing
• 52:23
  Speaker 4: us talk about it. We look like the way we look. OK,
• 52:26
  Speaker 4: maybe it's OK for me to just take a step.
• 52:30
  Speaker 4: I like people to think about therapy first because they
• 52:34
  Speaker 4: usually are great about picking up when symptoms are here.
• 52:38
  Speaker 4: I get a lot of referrals because someone says, my
• 52:40
  Speaker 4: therapist said, it's probably time to see a psychiatrist so
• 52:44
  Speaker 4: that you can talk about medication because this isn't just
• 52:47
  Speaker 4: a matter of like all the stress. Like you said,
• 52:49
  Speaker 4: they're worrying about finances. They're worrying about the kids. They're
• 52:52
  Speaker 4: worrying about just surviving. That's when I get to step in.
• 52:57
  Speaker 4: And then having the experience, the same cultural background, I
• 53:01
  Speaker 4: can get to the weeds with you, right? Like, I
• 53:02
  Speaker 4: get it. Girl, that dude is driving you crazy. We
• 53:05
  Speaker 4: need to like, maybe talk about how we're going to
• 53:07
  Speaker 4: put that on ice a little bit. And we're going
• 53:09
  Speaker 4: to do some self-care and we're maybe going to talk
• 53:11
  Speaker 4: about medication. So this is, this is, we're, we're ushering in,
• 53:15
  Speaker 4: I think more people thinking about the importance of it.
• 53:19
  Speaker 4: And then I was sharing, I think a few years
• 53:20
  Speaker 4: back with you, the next step is like, how do
• 53:22
  Speaker 4: you find the right team? Right. Um, I love for
• 53:26
  Speaker 4: people to learn more about that, even through some of
• 53:29
  Speaker 4: the public work I'm trying to shift into. Because to
• 53:31
  Speaker 4: your point, you're going to see the doctor across the street,
• 53:34
  Speaker 4: and that might not be the right fit. But there
• 53:37
  Speaker 4: are a lot more people online sharing their work. There's
• 53:39
  Speaker 4: a lot more resources. Treat it like dating. If it
• 53:44
  Speaker 4: ain't fitting, just next.
• 53:47
  Speaker 5: Don't quit.
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: You said you were shifting from therapist to psychologist.
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: Psychiatrist.
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: Psychiatrist, I'm sorry.
• 53:52
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah. Part of it is because I just want
• 53:55
  Speaker 4: to get in my bag a little bit more. I'm
• 53:56
  Speaker 4: like a little annoyed when people say you're a therapist.
• 54:00
  Speaker 4: It's a part of what I do. Shout out to
• 54:02
  Speaker 4: all the therapists in the world. I am one. I am.
• 54:05
  Speaker 4: I am a therapist also. But to become a doctor,
• 54:09
  Speaker 4: it's a it's a long road. OK, it is. There's
• 54:14
  Speaker 4: a lot of tests. There's a lot of standards you
• 54:16
  Speaker 4: have to meet. There's board certification that you have to
• 54:19
  Speaker 4: keep up. There's licensing requirements. There's just a lot more depth.
• 54:25
  Speaker 4: And I think when I was initially sharing my work publicly,
• 54:29
  Speaker 4: it was easier to kind of get people to be
• 54:31
  Speaker 4: OK talking about mental health when they see me as
• 54:33
  Speaker 4: like Dr. Jess, the therapist. But now I'd like to
• 54:36
  Speaker 4: say I think we've evolved. And now people need to
• 54:38
  Speaker 4: know the difference, right? And so when you're seeing a psychiatrist,
• 54:42
  Speaker 4: you're seeing a medical doctor, this is a specialty in medicine.
• 54:45
  Speaker 4: I could have done dermatology if I wanted, if I
• 54:47
  Speaker 4: had the scores. I could have done like OBGYN. We
• 54:50
  Speaker 4: are all physicians. This is just a specialty within it.
• 54:55
  Speaker 4: And I think now that more people are being sort
• 54:57
  Speaker 4: of we're open here talking about symptoms. That's the difference
• 55:01
  Speaker 4: between what a therapist and psychiatrist does. I'm really focused
• 55:04
  Speaker 4: in on the symptoms. How are you sleeping? How's the mood?
• 55:08
  Speaker 4: You know, how are you taking care of yourself? Rather
• 55:11
  Speaker 4: than maybe the emotional experience or some of like what's
• 55:14
  Speaker 4: happening in the world. I weave that in as a psychiatrist. Again,
• 55:17
  Speaker 4: shout out to NYU. They really trained us to do everything.
• 55:21
  Speaker 4: But I just want people to kind of put a
• 55:22
  Speaker 4: little bit more emphasis on knowing the difference.
• 55:26
  Speaker 5: I just got two more questions. And one of them
• 55:28
  Speaker 5: was something you said earlier. So you got off social
• 55:30
  Speaker 5: media and started getting back into your real life practice, right?
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 55:34
  Speaker 5: Was that because some of the mental health professionals online
• 55:37
  Speaker 5: just started to look unserious? Because we talk about that
• 55:40
  Speaker 5: a lot. Like some of the experts be looking very unserious.
• 55:43
  Speaker 5: Like I should know the difference between the experts and
• 55:46
  Speaker 5: the influencers.
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: Yes. And social media blurs the line.
• 55:50
  Speaker 4: You are just helping me not have to put it
• 55:52
  Speaker 4: into words. Thank you. I don't have to be the
• 55:54
  Speaker 4: bad guy.
• 55:55
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 55:56
  Speaker 4: You know, I always joke with my husband. I'm like,
• 55:57
  Speaker 4: I'm not going to be dancing on the internet for
• 56:00
  Speaker 4: my audience. You know, once it shifted to that or
• 56:03
  Speaker 4: the content needs to go even shorter, you know, if
• 56:07
  Speaker 4: I can't make a point in 60 seconds and keep
• 56:09
  Speaker 4: your attention, I'm not going to be dancing. I don't
• 56:12
  Speaker 4: I don't need to go viral. Right. I never really
• 56:14
  Speaker 4: focused on having viral moments. I think that's why it's
• 56:17
  Speaker 4: sustained and why I was getting a lot of opportunities
• 56:19
  Speaker 4: to be an expert. And I still get them.
• 56:21
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 56:22
  Speaker 4: Became unserious. You know, people are just trying to get
• 56:25
  Speaker 4: really niche and really, truly. It's not there's there's the
• 56:29
  Speaker 4: symptoms are what they are. If I'm making you think
• 56:33
  Speaker 4: that you could possibly have this because I'm branding myself
• 56:36
  Speaker 4: as like the ADHD psychiatrist, there's there's something wrong with that.
• 56:42
  Speaker 4: Then you're going to come in convinced. I saw this
• 56:44
  Speaker 4: TikTok that if I, you know, I can't keep up
• 56:46
  Speaker 4: with my keys and I, you know, break down anytime
• 56:51
  Speaker 4: someone frustrates me that I have ADHD. I really have
• 56:54
  Speaker 4: people come in and ask that. And then I have
• 56:55
  Speaker 4: to delicately say. So, yeah, a big part for me was.
• 56:59
  Speaker 3: Just that I can't find my keys.
• 57:01
  Speaker 4: Right. Like, is this ADHD or is this like your
• 57:04
  Speaker 4: house is a mess? You're over attached to your devices.
• 57:07
  Speaker 4: You really don't have any true routine. You need to
• 57:10
  Speaker 4: really get back to the basics. Are you sleeping at night?
• 57:14
  Speaker 4: Are you eating your food? So when I did a
• 57:16
  Speaker 4: soft lunch for a podcast, and that's what I focused on,
• 57:18
  Speaker 4: it's self-care that you need to kind of bring into
• 57:21
  Speaker 4: the forefront. But yeah, social media became a bit unserious.
• 57:25
  Speaker 4: And I am disappointed seeing professionals feel the pressure to
• 57:31
  Speaker 4: maybe go viral when I'm like, have a boring ass page, right?
• 57:35
  Speaker 4: Let someone just trust you. Let them land on your page.
• 57:38
  Speaker 4: You don't need to go viral. Like, what are you
• 57:39
  Speaker 4: trying to do?
• 57:40
  Speaker 5: And my last question, what do you wish the Lindsay
• 57:44
  Speaker 5: Clancy story had taught America before it became.
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: This courtroom story?
• 57:52
  Speaker 4: Well, again, I think keeping it really simple, I would
• 57:56
  Speaker 4: have hoped that it would have started more conversations around
• 58:00
  Speaker 4: properly supporting families, mothers, fathers thinking about the role for community.
• 58:09
  Speaker 4: You know, what I am disappointed to see is it became,
• 58:12
  Speaker 4: like you were saying, more of the symptoms of postpartum,
• 58:18
  Speaker 4: which I think some of us would debate. I think, again,
• 58:23
  Speaker 4: it just should be more of the discussion nationally about
• 58:26
  Speaker 4: how we're going to properly make sure people have what
• 58:28
  Speaker 4: they need. Maybe not even taking on the pressure to
• 58:32
  Speaker 4: build really big families if you feel like One is enough.
• 58:35
  Speaker 4: I'm tired. I mean, shout out to you guys. Six kids.
• 58:38
  Speaker 4: I love it. But everyone can't do that, right? Like
• 58:41
  Speaker 4: everyone may not have the support or they may be
• 58:44
  Speaker 4: more sensitive to stress and they might not be able
• 58:47
  Speaker 4: to tolerate that.
• 58:47
  Speaker 3: My wife is good. My wife is really, I don't
• 58:50
  Speaker 3: even know how she does it, but she's pretty amazing
• 58:53
  Speaker 3: when it comes to the stress and things not bothering
• 58:55
  Speaker 3: her and her being a listening mom. Because I'm sometimes
• 58:58
  Speaker 3: the dad to be like, yeah, just get out of here.
• 59:00
  Speaker 3: But my wife, she'll sit there and she listens and
• 59:02
  Speaker 3: she goes through all the kids' problems and She wakes
• 59:05
  Speaker 3: up in the morning and you forget how difficult it is.
• 59:07
  Speaker 3: Like she just, like, that's why when she went. to
• 59:10
  Speaker 3: like she goes on a girls trip every couple of
• 59:12
  Speaker 3: years the 17 day girls trip and dad has to
• 59:16
  Speaker 3: hold it down and after like the fifth day I'm
• 59:18
  Speaker 3: like nah B I need her back right now because
• 59:20
  Speaker 3: it's a lot and then you're doing it on your
• 59:22
  Speaker 3: own and then I don't know how to do hair
• 59:24
  Speaker 3: so their hair look crazy and then I gotta feed
• 59:26
  Speaker 3: them and then if they have homework I gotta help
• 59:28
  Speaker 3: with homework Dad's not too good at homework.
• 59:30
  Speaker 4: I do everything else.
• 59:31
  Speaker 2: I got to feed him.
• 59:32
  Speaker 3: You got to feed him. But then you got to
• 59:35
  Speaker 3: cook this one because this one wants this to eat.
• 59:37
  Speaker 3: This one wants this to eat. And then my wife prepares.
• 59:39
  Speaker 3: So she prepares and she has it locked up. It's like,
• 59:42
  Speaker 3: all right, it's 6 o'clock. Get your food. You have
• 59:44
  Speaker 3: a break. Now back to dance. And this one has, like,
• 59:46
  Speaker 3: my wife does it. So give her those breaks at
• 59:49
  Speaker 3: times as much as she wants. She runs the house.
• 59:51
  Speaker 2: That's her crib.
• 59:52
  Speaker 3: I just live there.
• 59:53
  Speaker 4: I love a 17-day.
• 59:55
  Speaker 2: I hate us.
• 59:56
  Speaker 4: I love that.
• 59:56
  Speaker 6: I kept saying, she don't miss home. He was like,
• 59:59
  Speaker 6: I don't know. I mean, after hearing all that, she
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 6: need 30. That's amazing.
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 3: Whatever she does.
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 5: I know.
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 6: I'm excited to become a mom, but I'm also a
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 6: bit nervous sometimes because of all these conversations. It makes you,
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 6: because you just don't know what's going to happen.
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 4: Yeah. It's definitely not for the faint of heart. But
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 4: I always tell people, once that string starts pulling- I
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 4: think it's just a strong biological urge for some people.
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 4: I haven't, you know, I think it's hard for people
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 4: to turn, to turn from that if you feel it.
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: What string?
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 4: If you feel like, I want to be a mom,
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 4: I want to be a mom. But if you don't
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 4: feel that.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: Wait, it's a string now too?
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 6: I heard about the spinal cord, but it's another one.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 4: No, no, no, no.
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 4: Just meaning like, just meaning like if you're feeling your
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 4: heart string pull, but you know, I really want it.
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 4: It's hard to, it's hard to suppress it.
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 4: You know, figure it out.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 5: Are you about the, Oh, no, I was making sure
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 5: you wrapped up her point about what does she want
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 5: people to learn from the.
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that's it. I think, you know, that
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 4: we've got to support families. They need resources. You know, doctors,
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 4: I do need, you know, you to do a... You know,
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 4: make sure people are on the right medication and push
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 4: for them to get admitted. I push mine. Like, okay,
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 4: if you aren't getting better, let me tell you the hospital.
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 4: I'm going to send you to.
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 3: Thank you, Dr.
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 4: Jess.
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 2: Dr. Jessica Clemens, man. I would tell him to follow you, but,
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 2: you know.
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 4: You can. I'm there.
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: All right.
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 3: I want to get back in it. Okay, what is it?
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 3: Is it still Ask Dr.
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 4: Jess? It's still Ask Dr.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 6: Jess.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 3: Well, we appreciate you for joining us.
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 4: Thank you so much.
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 3: And hopefully you'll join us more. you vanished you vanished
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 3: from our life like you jumped in I've been.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 6: Trying to did you vanish you took intentionally took the
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 6: time away no.
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 4: She vanished from us yeah but you.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: Said from us like it was just breakfast club I've
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: been trying.
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 5: To get her at the mental wealth expo for years
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 5: I'm like yo this would be now I'm thinking like
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 5: this would be a great year for her just to
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 5: do the whole panel by herself what's this thing called PowerPoint.
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 4: I'm down.
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 2: Word?
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 3: I'm down.
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 4: I'm back out here. I'm back out here. My children
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 4: are a bit older. They can tolerate being away from mom.
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 4: I got to shout them out. I know y'all are watching.
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 4: Y'all better be on your best behavior. But I want
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 4: to because I see this is needed.
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 4: You know? And I have a lot of fun. You
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 4: guys have just been really good to me. I appreciate
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 4: being here.
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 2: Well, Dr.
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 3: Jess, ladies and gentlemen, it's the Breakfast Club. Good morning.
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: Hold up.
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 3: Every day I wake up.
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: Wake your ass up. The Breakfast Club. You all finished
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 2: or you all done?