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Remembering Shireen Abu Akleh · Obnoxiously Pleasant

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Hanan.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Lena.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: And this is the Obnoxiously Pleasant Podcast.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: We're back.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you everybody for being so patient with us.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: We were supposed to come back right after Eid.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: And then we had like an unexpected delay, but we're back and in person again.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we were supposed to just take one week off, but we took like three.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_02: Some things happened.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we took some we lots of things happened.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I always say like life gets in the way, but that's not an excuse.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: But we are back.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: So we took a like Lena was saying, we took a brief delay.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you guys follow us on Instagram or TikTok.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um if you don't, uh, you will have seen that we took a brief delay, schedules got busy.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, Lena got the cocoa.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: I was to say.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: I did.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: So that was issue number one was Lena got the cocoa.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: But uh I'm cocoa free now.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, obviously.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: We won't be doing it in person if she wasn't COVID-free.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then second, if you guys were watching our videos, you will see that um it's been about a week now, right?
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's been a week, a little over a week.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, Lena lost a dear friend and colleague, um uh senior, uh senior and seasoned Al Jazeera reporter Sharina Buakla, who was killed by IDF forces um in uh Janine last week.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: Was it last Tuesday or last Wednesday?
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: It was last Wednesday.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: Last Wednesday morning.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, so it's been just like a whirlwind.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: If you watched the news and saw that, amazing.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: If you haven't, we'll just spend a little bit of time talking about that today because that's an issue that matters to the both of us.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_02: It does matter, yeah.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it was it was pretty it was pretty hard.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I'm still like in the grieving process um because she wasn't just this veteran journalist that was very well respected and and and liked, she was also a a close friend, like you mentioned.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_02: She was a dear friend of mine, and it hit me hard.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_02: It really did.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um because and I think I mentioned this to you before, for us Palestinians, like her her murder, yeah, this is what I'm gonna call it.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_02: It is a murder.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um I agree.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because you know, she and you mentioned this in your TikTok video uh that you posted.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_02: She was clearly wearing a press vest and she was uh wearing her helmet and she was still killed.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um it's really hard.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_02: I agree.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_02: So for and I and like I said, going back to my original thought, um, like I mentioned to you before, as a Palestinian, you know, and as a journalist, this hit me.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_02: There's so many different layers of layers to this.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um, the first thing obviously is oh my god, I lost a good friend of mine.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_02: And and what's crazy is you know, I get notifications because I am I am a journalist, so I get these notifications on my phone before anybody else gets them.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_02: And the first thing I I saw, like I was sitting, it was late at night, it was maybe like 12 a.m., 11:50, something like that.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I get a notification, it says, uh Al Jazeera Al Jazeera journalist, um, shot and wounded.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because I think the initial reports just said Al Jazeera journalist.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_02: It didn't mention anything.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_02: Shah and wounded in the West Bank or Janine.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_02: And so I was like, what?
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my god.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_02: So because I know the people in the Ramallah office, like I know a lot of them, like, oh my god, this is not like hopefully, hopefully, they're just injured.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_02: You know?
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_02: And then what's so horror horrifying is that I click on the link, it takes me to a Twitter account, and this person had posted a really graphic video, and then when I find out it's Shireen, I'm like, no, no, this is not good.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_02: Because if you see, like, and I'm I was so upset because people needed, like, I was so upset that people were sharing that video because it was just so disrespectful.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_02: Like, and I get it, like the initial response people are posting this, but I did not want to see her like that.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, of course.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, of course, and I knew as soon as I saw her, and then there was another video of her in the car, uh, trying to, they're trying to rush her to the hospital.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_02: I knew immediately, I'm like, this is not good.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_02: She does not look good.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so this is not it's not gonna, it's not a good thing, you know.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_02: So anyway, I was like, this can't be true.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_02: This can't be true.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_02: So obviously, I try not algezira.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and they're talking about it, and the bureau chief, Walid al-Aumari, he's on his way to the hospital, and I'm like, okay, this is good.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_02: This maybe, maybe there's a there's a way, maybe there's a way, you know.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_02: And that was my initial um response to it.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_02: I just I was hoping and praying that she's gonna make it somehow.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_02: And then literally 10 minutes later, they come on and they say, No, she was killed and she died, and she's no longer with us.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I I lost it, you know, like the the initial the initial thing for me, the initial response was, Oh my god, my friend just was killed by the Israeli army, and then later on, like after a couple of days, you're like, Why is this happening?
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_02: Why does this continue to happen to us Palestinians?
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think that that's like that's honestly, like that's one of the things I wanted us to focus on today was it's not so much, you know, yes, and this happens everywhere, right?
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I I understand that journalists die while they're doing their work.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: I understand that they pick these jobs, I understand that it's difficult, but I think it's you know, I me personally, I like to look at like the human aspect of everything, right?
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like this is just an example, another example of transgression, uh, you know, a transgression by the the IDF against just civilians.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, she is a civilian.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, she's wearing a press fest.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, she chose to be there, but she did not choose to get shot in the head in an area under her helmet where you know that's not covered.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: And and for me, the way I look at it is like, you know, I have my my best friend is a journalist.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: My husband, my husband's a former journalist, right?
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: And in his past life, as I like to say, he was a journalist.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: I have lots of friends who do this job.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: I have lots of friends who do this job in very tough and difficult places, and I'm forever grateful for them for sharing stories, for bringing the truth to light.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: I have lots of friends who did this in all different parts of the world.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: And you feel this sadness that there is just this overarching force that just wants to like quiet the truth.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I think for me, like that's what bothers me the most is like this is an this is an overt like action to silence somebody trying to show the truth of what's happening on the ground.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: And whether it's in Palestine, whether it happens in Iraq, it happens in Syria, it happens in Ukraine, happens wherever, like I would have the same, my, my, like the, the, the level, I think, of anger that I have about this would be exactly the same.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: That I think I know.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: If this happened to anybody, anyone.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, I wanted to mention, because you said, you know, she's a civilian, she got shot.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, I just want to also mention that she was a veteran journalist who knew her way around Janine, who knew Janine very well, because she covered Janine in the second and tafada.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_02: Uh but the thing is, she's not gonna put herself in harm's way intentionally.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_02: So she she, I can I can eat But that's what the eyewitnesses were saying.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_02: They said that they thought it would be safe to crown.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly, because she's been doing this for quite some time.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_02: Since 1997, she's with she was with Al Jazeera, and then she was, I think, with uh a radio station in Palestine.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_02: But the point is she's not gonna put herself, she's not gonna be irresponsible to put her herself in a situation or her team.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_02: And and the reason she got shot is she was going to help her colleague who was also shot in the back, you know.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_02: So it's it's it's not like she was, you know, um uh irresponsible or like uncau.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_02: She was very cautious.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: So honestly, honestly, I think it's yes, she knew, and I think it was targeted.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: At the same time, a huge part of me, obviously, like I'm a very um well, you guys haven't figured out by now.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: I I'm Muslim.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: Shocker.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: So a huge part of me believes that it was her time, obviously.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: This is this is we all, you know, it's what we call Mektub.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's like written, right?
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: Your whole life story is like written from from birth until until you die.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: So, like a huge part of me understands that this was the way that God chose for her to to die.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but I think there's a re and I think there's a reason, of course.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, of course.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: There is, there is like, how do you the the best way to uncover or expose something is by picking somebody like that is so high profile and showing that even that person, as as like Lena's saying, as veteran as she was, she knew her way around, she knew what she was doing, she was still she she still became a victim of of these daily transgressions that happen against the Palestinian people in the occupied territories.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and and and had it not been her, she probably would have been there reporting on the other journalists who died.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and that that's why, you know, for for like she was the one, and you mentioned this also in your video, she was the one covering these stories that nobody wanted to cover, and no story was too little for her.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and and the reason you saw the outpouring uh that's why people love her, exactly, because she loved her.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_02: She, you know, as a journalist, she was down to earth, but also like when you meet her, when you get to know her, you're kind of shocked at how humble she was and how down to earth she was, and just so loving and so sweet and so kind.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_02: And and and like I said, for me, the there's different, like, and I'm still like you know dealing with this, but like the initial reaction is like, oh my god, Shireen, my friend, is gone.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, and then the anger kind of sets up because as a Palestinian, I get like I'm we're tired.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_02: We're tired of having to deal with this.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_02: And and you know, like I you think it's shocking, but no, it's not shocking.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I'm not shocked, I'm shocked that I lost a friend.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_02: That's the shock factor for me.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_02: But it's not shocking that this government, the Israeli government and the Israeli military continue, they do this on a daily basis.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: And like before before we continue talking about it, and I know we usually like come here and it's a place to disconnect and it's a place to be fun, but it's it was very important for the both of us that we talk about this.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like this is um, this is, and it's not about, you know, it's not about um being empathetic, sympathetic, whatever.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's just about talking about something that matters to both of us, yeah, right?
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not making this a political issue, I'm not making this a religious issue, but this is something that matters wholly and totally for the both of us.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: So it was very important for us to come on here and say that what happened to this woman was not right.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: And and I like had again, had this happened anywhere else, and I understand there, you know, there may be some feedback of saying, like, well, um, it's only because she's, you know, Arab American or it's only because she's Palestinian and because you guys are Arab American.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: No, no.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: What matters to me the most is because she's a human and she's a journalist.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I would feel this way if anybody doing their job to shed light on the truth and on what's actually happening and to share human stories died this way, I would be just as like sympathetic towards this situation.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so for me, it's um it matters because this woman was she she did something honestly that a lot of people were not capable of doing.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: She freaking humanized Palestinians for 20 plus years.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, on Arabic-speaking television, I get it, right?
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: But that is still very important.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: She never talked about, you know, for her, she she had an like an issue that she believed in, and she kept pushing and covering that issue literally until her last dying day.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I have nothing but utter respect for somebody like that.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, definitely.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, and then to add insult to injury, the Israeli uh police decided to attack the funeral.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I just I I honestly, as like you know how I said I wasn't shocked, but that was still shocking to me as a Palestinian, and I don't I don't live in Palestine, right?
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_02: I live here, but I have firsthand experience of the crap that Palestinians have to deal with the oppression and you know unjust policies by this Israeli government against them.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_02: I I I've experienced by the only democracy in the Middle East, the so-called only democracy, yeah, whatever.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_02: So I I know like I something like 90% of the things that are reported out of Palestine aren't shocking to me.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_02: But I was still shocked because I'm like, do you guys not care?
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_02: The whole world is watching, and you still, you still had the nerve to attack the pallbearers.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: Who does that?
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: I was, but I will tell you something.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's I was one, um I it's not so much that it's shocking because you're like it at you kind of expected it.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know what I mean?
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I yeah, as terrible as it sounds, like yeah, as terrible as that.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_01: I was very happy, however, that somebody had the idea to like lock the coffin, because that would have been horrendous with all the shaking and the throwing and like it's just such a desecration of this woman's like it's her final moments before they lay her to rest.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_02: They killed her and they wouldn't even let her have a damn funeral.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_02: They literally desecrated that moment.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you you can't, you're not letting Palestinians live in peace, and you're not even letting them die in peace.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: Can you imagine if the the somebody hadn't had the bright idea to lock that coffin with all the craziness that was happening?
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: And like literally, people it's like this.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: But why, but why?
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_02: Why are you you're already, you know, you're you're already disgusting.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sorry, you're disgusting.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_02: So you're gonna add, like, the whole world is watching and you're gonna do this.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_02: Like how, how, I don't even know how to describe it.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but you know, I will say, like, the the nicest thing of this uh to what watching this whole experience, like, or this whole situation happen.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: I think the nicest thing for me to experience was seeing like how much this brought people together, yeah, right, regardless of like what your religion was and what your I mean you had, you know, Muslims, Christians, Jews, anybody who knew that what happened was was wrong and was a transgression against like a an innocent woman's life was out there to show support.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I I love that.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: I love that so much because it shows me like it doesn't leave me jaded.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know about you, but it for me it shows me that there is still like good in people.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_02: No, there's still good in people, but what good does it do if nothing changes?
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_02: Like, this is this is as a Palestinian, I'm just so frustrated.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_02: I'm I'm done, and my people are done.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_02: Like, can we can someone like please for the love of God?
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I know, like, listen, the thing is most people you meet know what's up, especially in today's world with you know the inform like like social media and everything, a lot more people are educated, of course, and they're very understanding, but like that doesn't change anything on the ground.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_02: No, there is no accountability for for Israel, no one has held Israel accountable for any of their actions, and then they they were gonna invest it.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_02: What are you gonna investigate?
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_02: You killed her, but they decided they're not gonna investigate it.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, yeah, yesterday the news came out that they're not gonna okay, good, because you know what?
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_02: As a Palestinian, as a journalist, I don't need these investigations.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_02: I don't need you.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_02: You're you are the murderer.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_02: You killed this person, okay, doing her job, and who wasn't a threat to you.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_02: So they decided that what, that like they needed the bullet to conduct the investigation.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, whatever.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's it's so ridiculous.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_02: Like anyone who has just spends 15 minutes reading up or doing a little research on this story would realize that their entire like PR campaign was a disaster.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_02: To claim that Palestinian gunman shot her, and I don't want to get into the politics.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_02: I don't.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_02: But like it's I'm just tired of it.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_02: I'm tired of the.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: So now we all know that Lena's tired.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_02: No, I am tired of the world knowing that we are under a uh brutal occupation, and this is an apartheid regime, and no one does anything about it.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: So here's the thing, right?
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I know we're not gonna like we're not gonna have this discussion about who's gonna do something, we're not gonna do something.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: No, but like, because we're never gonna solve this today, right?
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like I said, it's not about politics.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_02: I'm honestly not trying to turn this into a political discussion because, like you said, usually this podcast is a little bit of a problem.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_02: It's a it's a place for for us and for you guys to disconnect with us.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_02: I'm trying to explain to you how Palestinians are this is where why I'm saying this, because you guys need to understand that we are tired of getting killed.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_02: We are tired of Trust me, sister, you're preaching to the choir.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I know.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_02: Like I know, but it's just it's I just want this to end.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_02: I want this occupation.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: And it's and it's hard because honestly, like um, when I think about this, for for me, this today's episode was really important because one, if you don't know, you know, that this was like the the killing of this journalist was wrong, that like now you know what happened.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like that was very important for both.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: And it's important because, you know, like I said, for me, it's um I have a lot of friends, including Lena, including my husband, like I said, formerly, who do this for a living.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: And it matters so much when you have someone good who does this for a living.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um she was a great journalist.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: She was, she was.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: And it's and it's sad too because like I for me, this was very difficult because I think of, oh my God, like what if this happened to Lena?
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what if this happened to my husband?
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: What if this happened to any of my friends?
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like, this would be it would be horrible, horrible.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I like I said, I understand that a lot of people are living under oppression.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: I am not talking about other oppression.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: I am not talking about I'm talking about this specific incident.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: That this specific incident is wrong.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: Because when you wear that press fest, it's an it's an armor of sorts.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: And you don't go into these types of spaces or these a war zone, essentially, without letting both sides know press is there, press is going to cover this.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: So it was such a difficult thing to swallow because like the IDF knew they were there.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's not like this was a surprise.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: You have to get like clearance to show up.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: You don't just show up like with cameras and you know, your mics and all that stuff and just walk in to cover it.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: No, they know that you're there.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: You need to get like a clearance path.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_01: It was a message, it was a message, you know.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: The best, you know, you're trying to you like you understand what I'm saying, right?
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: No, you have to get like approval before you go to these.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_02: It's not just that, like, like I said, she's not gonna put herself or her team in a situation where she thinks it's gonna be dangerous.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, she survived the the first the massacre in Janine, for God's sakes, where I think I don't know, over 50 people were killed.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, okay.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_02: So like she was there, like she survived that, and I don't know how many days that lasted.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_02: It lasted like a while.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_02: So, like, she's not she wasn't born yesterday, she didn't just start this job, like she knew her way around.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_02: I know, you know.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I mean, I don't know.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just I don't know, man.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_02: I I for me what kills me and still like kills me now is I'll know I'll never hear her say her sign-off.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and it gets me emotional.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I think this is a wonderful place for us to you know to end our episode.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: But this is exactly what I'm talking about.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like why like why this matters, right?
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like why it's important to whether it's her or and for us, like I said, this story was really important because she was such a dear friend for Lena and for a lot of the you know, the the the Al Jazina colleagues, like the place where they work.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's when you work with people for this amount of time, even if you never, you know, even if you don't spend every day together, you become this little family.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: So it's very hard, like when you lose a family member.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, it is very, very difficult.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, for us it was very important to, you know, before we moved on and we do any of our funny content, or I like to say like just our our our our our standard episodes or discussion topics, it was very important for us to address this because this is something that, you know, matters to Lena a lot, it matters to me a lot.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, and it should matter to everybody because she was just a human being.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like she was a woman who loved to chat with friends, she loved to shop, she loved to go dancing, she was a person, you know.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so, and I get like, and I and I, like I said, I think it's very important to humanize her.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: She wasn't just somebody out there doing a job and got accidentally, you know, like shot or killed in a crossfire.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: This was very intentional.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: Whether or not, you know, the Israelis say yes or no, that's besides the point.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: What matters is that she was a woman doing her job and she shouldn't have been killed this way.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_02: No, and you know, I thought I was okay and I had the crying under control, but like I said, every time I remember that, I'm like, I have to get a tissue hold on.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, I'm I've kind of composed myself a little bit.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I just wanted to say that I I thought that I had enough time to come on and not get emotional.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_02: But like certain things I remember and then it gets me started again.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_02: Of course, you know?
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_02: So I mean, I I'm never gonna forget forget her.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_02: Of course.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I'm not gonna forgive the people that killed her.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but inshallah, she's in a better place.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: And honestly, like um her even if we don't, like, I truly believe, like, even if we don't, there's no closure, quote unquote.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like, we don't know who did this, and there's no her death will not be in vain.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: Because if anything, she did exactly what she aimed to do with her body of work her whole career, yeah, which is to humanize Palestinians and to raise awareness on their daily struggle.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: And even in her dying moment, yeah, she did that.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: She did that.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: So she literally, she I couldn't, and I know this doesn't make things better, but I couldn't think of a better way for her to to go.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: She she she died doing one, the things that she loves the most, right?
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: Which was her work.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: Two, she died in a way that continued every single aspect of her life's work, which is to make sure that people understood what her cause was.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: And so not only did she die for her, she literally died for her cause, which I couldn't think of like a more noble death.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: You know, really.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: Couldn't think of a more noble death, right?
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but in addition to that, um she even in her even in her death, she is still, people are still talking.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: About what she wanted people to talk about.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I I I truly, I, I really think that that's like like full circle.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: If you could ever do something full circle in in a career, like after your death, like posthumously, like she did it.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and and just a final thought from from me.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um I think for for us in in a like this is a way for us to honor her.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_02: And it shouldn't just be this.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, obviously, we're probably not gonna discuss this again.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe we will in the future, but I think everybody out there, whether you're Palestinian or not Palestinian, anybody who cares about humanity, I don't know, I'm not even gonna, this has nothing to do with anything else, humanity, just to keep her alive, you know, like to keep to keep remembering her, to keep talking about her, to talk about the plight of the Palestinian people, because you know why?
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_02: This is what she wanted.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I think for me, I will, I mean, I've always done that, but I'm gonna continue to do so, and I will always remember her and I will always think of her.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I think we need to um continue with that.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and that's a way for us to honor her.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, I agree.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: That's all I have.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: All right, thank you.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: We will see you guys next week, inshallah.