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Meet the Guy Who Decides What Your Home is Worth · Workplace Confessions: Behind Closed Doors

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Workplace Confessions Behind Closed Doors.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Elsa Barby.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm Don Andrews.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_01: We have been friends since sixth grade.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: Somewhere between a car wash job, a few questionable boy choices, and 40 years of friendship, we became the kind of people who always want to know what was really going on, including at work.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_02: Don spent 25 years as an employment lawyer, digging into workplace drama from the inside out.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_02: I built a long career in the beauty industry as a brand educator with a few TV cameos sprinkled in for fun.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: We came up in very different industries, but we have the same passion.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: Meeting new people and asking how they got their jobs, what they love, what they can't stand, and what happens behind closed doors.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_02: Every episode we talk to a new guest about their lived experience in the world of work.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_02: And because our guests stay anonymous, they can spill the truth without the fallout.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: We get into the choices they made, the tiny cruelties, the surprise kindnesses, and some of the moments that never make it into human resources reports.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_02: Equal parts informative and tiddly.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_02: This show serves up all the tea while honoring the incredible, complicated, often messy work people are doing across the industries and across the map.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to Workplace Confessions Behind Closed Doors.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_02: Let's get into it.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for joining us today on Workplace Confessions Behind Closed Doors.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_02: As with every guest, you should know by now that first question is What was your first paying job?
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: My first paying job was at Taco Bell, which we affectionately call Taco Hell back in the 80s when I was a sophomore.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_02: And how long did you have that job for?
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: I worked that job until I graduated.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: And it was very interesting because at that time, that was when the gang and color wars were at its peak.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: And there were different times that I would send someone to clean, because I was one of the like student managers or whatever.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I would send someone out to sweep up the lot outside.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: And there were times that they would actually sweep up crack cocaine.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: We swept it up real quick and got rid of it before someone came back to reclaim it.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_02: Now tell us what do you do today?
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: I am a certified residential real estate appraiser.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I've been doing this since my daughter was born, which what about 23 years?
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_02: Tell us how you got from working at Taco Bell to being an appraiser.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, really secured this route.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: So I graduated from high school, decided I didn't want to work in fast food anymore.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I went to UC San Diego, got in, thankfully, and my first job on campus was at the Ravel Food Commons.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I wasn't serving fast food, we were serving all the meals to the students and stuff like that.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: I studied communications, graduated from there, went into radio television and worked for one of the local sports radio stations for a while, and worked at one of the local television stations for a while as well.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: And different times I would go out with reporters, and there would be women like groupies out there trying to meet the reporters and stuff like that.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: One in particular, we went to go interview a young guy who said he was interested in hockey.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: So as we're showing up, we see the little boy and we see the mom.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: And honestly, the mom looked like she was ready to go to a club.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: The girl, the girls were out.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: And so the reporter said, Can you go talk to the son real quick?
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I pulled the son aside.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: I said, Hey, how are you doing?
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: I said, How long have you been interested in hockey?
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: He said, I don't know anything about hockey.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: My mom just wanted to meet the reporter.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I started to question whether or not I had the personality as a young married man to deal with that.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: Not saying that I'm some suave debonair person.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: People tend to glorify people that are on television or on radio.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: The last straw for me was when the weather anchor, the lead investigative anchor, and the night main newsreader, they pulled me aside and they said, We hear you're a young married guy and you're working in this industry.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: Guess how many families the each of us supporting?
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I was confused.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, What why?
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: They're like, we just want to give you an understanding of what happens in this industry.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, Two.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: They said, no, three, no, four, no, five.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: Each of those guys had been married five times, and I was floored.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, I'm just, I'm a I like to think that I'm emotionally intelligent, but I know my limits for my emotion.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I figured, you know what?
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm probably not gonna do well in this industry.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I tapped out and I found a job listing for an appraisal management company, started working there, and it was pretty nice and everything.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: One of the one of the gentlemen invited me to lunch, and he said, Hey, have you ever thought about becoming an appraiser?
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, No, what is that?
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: He said, You go, you look at houses, you take photos, and you write up a report for the lender to let them know how much a home is valued.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's like a risk management.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: We we help out the lenders and stuff like that.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, Well, I've never heard of it.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: He said, I've been doing this since I graduated from San Diego State, and I only do it part-time, and I make over six figures.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: I said, you know what?
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: Let's yeah, let's talk.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: Let's talk.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_02: Let's order dessert.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_02: Let's order dessert.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, okay, I'm interested.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I talked to my wife about it, and so I took all the courses.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: I already have my degree, took the courses and passed all my certifications, and uh just been working for me for 20 plus years.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: What is the certification process for that?
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: I've heard it's really rigorous.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: I think the the most rigorous part is finding someone who will mentor you because it's it's a dog eat dog world.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: There have been times, too many times, where you will train someone and then they go on their own and become your competition.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: Just the whole process is now after the the downturn in the market several years ago, you have to have a college degree.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: And then you you take, I forgot exactly how many courses, but you take the basic real estate appraisal evaluation courses.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: You after you take the courses, you apply to take the state exam.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: Once you pass that exam, you become a trainee.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: And then that's when that's what that's the hardest part, where you try to find someone who will train you or mentor you so you can pick up hours and they want you to work 2,000 hours as a trainee or a full year full time.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're working as a trainee, you it's a coin flip whether or not you're going to be paid enough to actually continue to pursue the the career.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I was fortunate the guy who invited me to learn about it, he employed me, and then I found a job with another company and they finished training me.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: So after you get your training, you take the state exam to become a full appraisal to get your license.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: Once you pass that, then you have to work a certain amount of hours, and then you can apply to take the certification exam.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: And once you pass the certification exam, then you get your license to be certified.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: There's also another level where, so as a certified appraiser, I can appraise any residential home or any small residential income, two to four properties, regardless of how high the value is.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: There's appraisers that can appraise anything, they can appraise commercial space, businesses, stuff like that.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: That's those are certified general appraisers.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: They look at a lot of the income generation of companies and they provide values for banks and stuff like that.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: That's another level.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: I've not yet reached that level.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_02: When you say not reach that level, is that something that all appraisers strive to attain?
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: No, no.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of the a lot of the people who become certified generals, a lot of them majored in either business, econ, or finance in college.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: I did not.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm right where I need to be.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like I said, it's been a good career.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: It does fluctuate depending on what's happening in the economy, especially the interest rates.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: When COVID hit, when they took the interest rates down to what, like zero or something like that.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: I hardly slept.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I made a ton of money and it it encroached upon family time and stuff like that, and dates and stuff like that.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: But once I received the largest check I've ever received, and uh showed it to my wife, she's like, okay, keep doing what you're doing.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_02: Get back out there.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, get me back out there.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: It got us out of debt, it got us purchasing things, just cash and stuff like that, which we hadn't done.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's been a good gig for me.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: How do you find clients?
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: How do you find clients?
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I've mostly worked for appraisal management companies.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: They manage the appraisal process for lenders.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I found most of my clientele from them.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: I do have some connections with a few lawyers that have sorry, that's not me get in trouble.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: That's somebody I like where you have they were coming from me.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: I live in Mir Mesa.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: We don't normally have those things going on around here unless there's a fire in the canyon.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: But so I've mostly worked for appraisal management companies, and they send a lot of what you what we call lender work or lender clientele.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: I've done, um right now I'm doing a private appraisal for someone who they want a retrospective valuation for a house because the their mother passed, and I guess they need it for the trust, something dealing with the taxes and stuff like that.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I really enjoy doing those because you get paid and you don't really have to argue with an underwriter or lender or an agent about value because you guys know.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: If I come if I come to your house and you believe that your house is worth a million dollars, and then I appraise it for 900,000, it's like me calling your baby ugly.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I'm saying?
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: So most of the work that I've done is for lenders.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, excellent.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_02: And you work predominantly alone?
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's a very independent career.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: I don't go into an office, I wake up, take my son to school, and then I come back home and type all day.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: Or I'll go do two or three or four inspections and then I'll come home and I'll type all day or all night.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: Most of the interaction that I have is when I go do my inspections.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I did decide, I made this decision because I think I needed it for my mental health.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: Whenever they have a cute dog or cat, I will take a photo with the animal and share it with my wife and my son to let them know that I'm enjoying myself out there.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: So cute.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_02: That's sweet.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_02: Walk us through, just for our listeners who maybe don't own a house or never had to hire an appraiser to come in.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_02: Walk us through what a day looks like when you're on the job.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: A day for me, like I said, so today I dropped my son off to school, had a medical appointment, and then I did an inspection over in Tierra Santa, two-story home, four bedrooms, two and a half bathrooms.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'll show up, I'll take photos of the residential street that she lives on to show the location to the bank because there are different things that can impact the value of your home.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: If there's a large utility pole in front of your home, most people don't like that.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: Most buyers don't want that.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I show that to the lender, I make comments about it.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes they care, often they care, sometimes it doesn't matter because some residents, some residential areas have a lot of power lines, so it's like a common thing.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: I'll measure the home, the exterior, and I have my little laser thing, and I'll just measure all around the perimeter of the home.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: And then I go inside of the residence and I take pictures of every room: the living room, dining, kitchen, any room, kit, all the bedrooms and bathrooms, and I'll take photos of the safety mechanisms, the smoke detector, the carbon monoxide monitor, the water heater, and the laundry, just to let them know that everything is functional in the house.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: After that, and like I said, this lady, she was very nice.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: She retired from her law practice of 30 years.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: She was telling me about her son who graduated from UCSD, where I went to school, showed me his picture.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: I try to have friendly banter and encourage people.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: And after that, I just I left and now I'm typing the report at home.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, that's cool.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_02: What's the best part about your job?
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: The best part about my job is the flexibility.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like I do work for a company now, but when I'm like not feeling 100%, or if say if I need to take a nap, I can just take a nap.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: Or if I want to go take a walk, or I want to go to the gym, as long as I meet my deadline or meet the lender deadline, I just go and do it.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: Now, my wife at times will she because I love her, she'll just text me and say, Hey, are you gonna be in this area?
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, no, but what do what do you need?
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: And she's like, Oh, I need this and this.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll do some honeydews in the meantime.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: But it gives me a lot of flexibility.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: It leaves me an opportunity to go, I have to take my son to do an MRI today.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I can do that.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: I don't have to necessarily tell my boss I need to take some sick time to go do that for my son.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: So the flexibility is excellent.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: But if you are a person that likes to work in an office, being an independent appraiser remotely probably is not going to work.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: You would probably have to work in like uh an office environment that does have appraisers there.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: But you they're hard to find though, because most appraisers don't, they don't, they became an appraiser because they didn't want to deal with office politics.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_02: And of course, the next question is what's the worst part about your job?
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: The worst part about the job is when someone decides that you you've not been fair in your valuation.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of times people don't they don't really understand.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: I went to a home up in Escondido, and it was mostly original, but I'm not tall, but when I open the door, I just raise my hand and I can touch the ceiling.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: That's a problem, you know.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: I'm saying, unless you have some Smurfs living there or something, or that it'll be good enough for them.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: But I had to let the lender know this is going to be a problem.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: So that basically scuttled that transaction.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: When that happens, all the people who associated with that transaction are upset because they're not going to make their money because of me.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I'm saying?
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: So those are the purchases, but then it's even worse when someone is trying to refinance their home and an agent or broker has called them and says, Your home is worth$2 million.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: And then the bank calls me and they're like, Can you go take a look at this property?
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, okay, I'll take a look at it.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: And just for an example, if you if you have a house in La Jolla, right?
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: One is beachfront, one is on the other side of the of the street, not on beachfront.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: But the one on the side of the not on the beachfront, they think their house is worth more than the one on the on the beach.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: That's not how it normally works.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I'm saying?
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: So I have to be strong enough to tell the bank this is the actual risk that you're taking.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes they'll go ahead and they'll go ahead and do the loan, but that's the hardest part for me is disappointing people who they're really relying on a higher value in order to refinance their homes.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: Now, the private people, a lot of times when taxes are involved, they don't want a higher value.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I've had someone say, hey, you know what, can you consider this property?
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: And depending on the property, I may consider it.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: But for the most part, appraisers are very, I don't know, maybe stubborn is the term, because we do a lot of research and we try to figure it out as best that we can as we can, and we try to be fair.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: I never go in with the prejudice of where I'm appraising the type of neighborhood or property or whatever.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: I've I have one in Rancho Santa Fe that I just scheduled.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure it's going to be very nice, but I have the same attitude going there as I did one in City Heights last week.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: So you have to be as balanced and fair as you can, or you may end up on the news.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_02: Which we all know you don't want to be on the news.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: No, not at all.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: Not at all.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: I try to be as inconspicuous as possible.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_02: So just for our listeners, I'm sure we have plenty of homeowners who might be remodeling their homes or anything like that.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_02: Based on your experience, what are the key factors when remodeling a home that will drive the value of your house up?
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: Your kitchen is number one.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: When people walk into a house, a lot of times they like to see the kitchen.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: So if the kitchen is very nice, that is going to sell your home.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: You want your home to be as bright as possible to allow lots of light, and you can mess with whatever colors you want, but nicely lit.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: And then your flooring, you want your flooring to be very nice.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_00: Carpet is just like old, older carpet is not really the thing.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: If you can get custom carpet or the luxury vinyl, that's the flooring that most people will do if they're not doing high quality tile or travertine or Italian tile stuff like that.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: The first thing it would be your kitchen, for sure.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_02: So let's just zoom out a little bit on the industry of appraisers.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_02: Because this is a new territory from I'm sure.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: Myself and I don't know about D, but if you could wave a magic wand and change one thing about your industry, what would it be?
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: I would change the ability for management, appraisal management companies taking such a sizable fee or cut from the appraisers.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: Because the appraisers, we we're in the firing line.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: If something goes wrong with the appraisal, they don't go and sue the management company, they sue the appraiser.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: So we're at risk.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: So we should be compensated for that risk.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I think there has to be a better way for people to break into the industry because at the last I'm I'm a member of the local appraisal institute.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: At the last meeting that we went to, every I would say the majority of us either had very white hair or no hair like me.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: Unless they were a woman.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: Again, they had very white hair.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: Younger people are not getting into this industry now.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: And if that doesn't, if that doesn't change, a lot of people are going to die off in this.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: Hopefully the industry doesn't die with them.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: But we have to figure out a way to pass this industry along and help people to understand that you can have a decent career, a very good career, valuing valuing homes, residential and commercial.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think people know what an appraiser is until they need one.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'll call someone up and they're like, oh, they I thought you were just going to drive by.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, no, the lender actually wants me to see the actual interior.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: And some people are freaked out about that, but others they're like, oh, well, I didn't know.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: So most people don't know what appraisers do.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: And since people don't know what appraisers do, they don't know how much money an appraiser can make.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like I said, if that guy hadn't told me that, like he said, he'll go do a couple of inspections and he'll just go surfing for the rest of the day.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: And he was making bank, and I'm like, I gotta do something like that.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: I don't surf, I can do some fun stuff and go do a couple of assignments here and there and support my family.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_02: What kind of degree would somebody earn in college?
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_02: You earned yours in communication, but in order to go right into the appraisal.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: Any any degree is acceptable.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: It depends.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: Now, if you want, if you think that you would be really interested in numbers and commercial business, finance, that that is very important.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: If you're good, if you're good with geometry, if you're good with sketching and stuff like that, and you basically have common sense.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_00: And when you can compare property to property and quality to quality, you it doesn't really matter what degree you get, you just have to have common sense and ability to be ethical.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_00: Was it 2008, the you know, the the Great Recession, they called it?
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: That was blamed on unethical appraisers.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: So what you had, and there were rumors, even local appraisers that that I had met at that time a broker would call you, call an appraiser, and say, Hey, I need you to find this value for this house.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: And the appraiser would just do it.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: That's what they did.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: And the chickens came home to roost when the market turned down, and the banks, they're like, Hey, hold on, we're not getting these payments on time.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: And once those, once that happens, then that's when they call me and they're like, I need you to go give me the right value for this house.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm doing several of those right now.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: So there may be something, there may be something brewing in the industry right now.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: I've been getting a lot of short sale and pre-foreclosures, and the house may be listed for, or the I did a condo.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: The condo's listed for almost six six hundred thousand dollars.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: I praised it for a lot lower than that.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I'm saying?
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: So the lenders like, you can't do that, or we're not gonna, we're not gonna back that loan.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: We're not gonna do that.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_00: If you're an ethical person and you have enough stubbornness about you to be ethical, this is a good industry.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_02: All right, so now for the juicy part.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_02: The wildest, weirdest, or most unforgettable thing that you've ever witnessed at work.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: I got this assignment.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_00: I forget exactly where, but it's very memorable.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'll never forget it.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_00: I show up to this house and I meet this really nice, sweet lady, and she's telling me about her house and how she's she's a like an artist and stuff like that.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: She likes to take photos and that type of artistry.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I measure the outside of the house, and I go inside the house, and I see her art, and I was I was very nervous because it was art of her.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, and very intimate art of her.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm like, all sorts of positions, and I'm like, and granted, I have to take pictures to sit to send to the lender.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I have to figure out how am I gonna take this picture and let them know I'm actually working, I'm not at some sort of club getting these photos.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: So that that made me extremely nervous.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: There was another one that I did several years later near near Hillcrest, and small apartment, really nice guy.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: He invited me in and he was chatty, he was so chatty, and he started telling me about all of these parties that he and his partner would throw in the area, and I'm like, this this guy's really nice, but I don't I didn't know if he was inviting me to participate in the parties, and then he went and he started showing me these different moles that he had made, and I don't know if you threw catching my drift, so he they were making moles of men's genitalia, and again, I'm like, how am I gonna take these pictures for the lender and not get all of these moles and these phalluses in in the photo?
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: Every now and then we'll have that type of home to appraise, but the people are very nice, the people are very even the eccentric ones, they're so nice, and you leave and you laugh, and you're like, wow, they're living a different life than I'm living.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_01: Clearly.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: Have you ever found have you ever found a squatter in any of the homes that you've been appraising?
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: Not yet.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_00: Thankful.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'm very thankful for that.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_00: No, I haven't found any squatters.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, what about secret rooms, like hidden rooms?
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I got this story for you.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's not a hit, you know what?
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_00: It was a hidden room.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: It was in Pacific Beach.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_00: This little old lady, just like a little grandma.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: I go in and I'm taking all these photos and everything, and I open this door, and she comes running.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_00: She's like, No, don't take any pictures in there.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, why?
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_00: She's like, I don't want them to know that I'm growing marijuana.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, but you're like a little grandma.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't know if she was a former hippie or she was in her hippie stage, but she was such a sweet lady.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: I all I could do is laugh.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, wow, she's she's like Snoop Dogg over here.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_02: Do you ever get clients that you know as soon as you walk in, they're just super chatty and trying to butter you up so they can get the most highest value for their house?
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: I've had people offer me food, gift cards.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: I've had people offer me lots of different things.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_00: Most of the time, though, it happens with the agents when they're trying to get their get their deal done, and they're like, oh, person, I need to meet you there and I need to show you some things.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_00: And so they're always trying to work it.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: But I've had people pretty much lie to me and say, oh man, I put$500,000, excuse me,$500,000 in into the home.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, what is it that you did?
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_00: And they can't really tell me.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_00: I would love to be able to document that.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_00: So if you can email me a list and itemize it, put that in my report, and I'll make sure to put that in my value.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_00: Often that they have not been able to produce that.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_00: But most of the times, most of the times they're not able to produce it if they're not telling the truth.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: But the the ones who really did it, you can see it.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: When you walk in the house, you you see the quality that they've added.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: Plus, most of the times you you go to what we call the multiple listing service, and it'll have photos of the house when it was purchased.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_00: And you can see all of those photos, and you see the difference when you get there, you're like, oh, okay, now I see why they think the value is much higher.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_00: And oftentimes the result will be a much higher value.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_01: Nice.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_01: Have you ever found come into a place and it's infested with bugs or vermin or a hoarder lives there?
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_00: Or okay.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, a couple of situations.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: And this is really sad.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_00: Down in Lemon Grove area.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_00: I went to this former teacher's house, and I could hardly walk around because there was there were papers and debris all over the floor, things from fast food, stuff like that.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_00: It was really tough.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_00: And he just started sharing with me.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, you know what?
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_00: I used to be a teacher, but I had to stop teaching because we had a school shooting and we lost a bunch of kids, and it really messed him up.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_00: So I did the very best that I could with the appraisal.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: When I left, I called my manager.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: This is when I was working at an appraisal management company as one of their appraisers here in San Diego.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, you know what?
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_00: I want to do this appraisal, but this guy, the home is basically filled with trash.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_00: And the reason why is because he experienced such trauma seeing students die because of a school shooting.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_00: And unfortunately, the lender decided not to proceed with the loan.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_00: So that was, I think that was the saddest one that I've ever been to.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, there there have been some there have been some places where sometimes people say, I don't want you to wear shoes.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, you know what?
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_00: No, I'm not taking my shoes off.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna wear my shoes in this house.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_02: It's all right.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_00: But I if I can share, I think I've appraised some really nice properties in Windensea.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_00: I did one last month that was right right on the cliff.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_00: It was beautiful, and it's like a vacation rental, but it was just phenomenal, just beautiful home.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I've appraised those type of homes over there.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: I've gone over to East County.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_00: They also have some breathtaking views over there.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: I did one on top of a mountain, and literally the guy can see 360 degrees, and that was a very hard appraisal because his was the only home up there.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_00: So, how am I gonna find something to compare it to?
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: For me, it I get fulfillment when I know that the value that I'm giving, like older people with reverse mortgage or FHA, they're too old to work, so they're using their home as their collateral to survive.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I go in and the value is strong and it's supportable, and there's no pushback.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_00: I feel good about that.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I've and I've actually had some people call me back and thank me for the appraisal.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_00: That's very rare.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: But when it happens, I feel like I have actually done my job.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_02: Do you receive context of the homeowner who's selling or buying?
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_02: Do you get any context of that person prior to going into their property?
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_00: Contact information?
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_02: Context as far as are they selling it?
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_02: Are they selling it for this type of reason?
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_02: This is where they're buying.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, do you?
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes, yes.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes they're motivated, they're they have to move out of town, or it's a pre-foreclosure.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_00: Those are difficult when it's pre-foreclosure, especially if they're still in the property, or tenants are in the property and they don't want to leave.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_00: So most of the times when I get the purchase agreement, I'll just ask whoever sent me the assignment, what are we dealing with here?
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_00: Or if it's dicey, they're like, hey, you know what?
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: Just be careful.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, if I really have to be careful, I don't know if I can if I can complete that assignment.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_00: When I first started, and I would go anywhere in the county, I learned my lesson when I went to a remote place up in Ramona, and I drove down this driveway, and I was going to take a quick photo of the property that I was using as a comparison.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_00: And as I'm turning around, the homeowner came out of his house and had a rifle.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_00: And he's like, Hey, why'd you drive down my driveway and take a picture?
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I'm an appraiser.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_00: I said, Would you like to see a card?
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_00: He said, Yes.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_00: So I gave him my business card and he let me leave.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_00: So when I got home, I said, hey, to my supervisor, don't send me to any places like that because I will not accept those assignments.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_00: Because I value my life over any sort of money I can make.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_02: What kind of skill set does somebody have to have?
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_00: You need to have pretty good math skills.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_00: You need to be able to good skills of geometry, because you have to do lots and lots of different sketches and lots of creative.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of creative designers of properties.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes that can be very frustrating.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_00: I think the the one, I'm gonna get back to your question, but two properties that I did, one up in Escondido, I did the sketch, and after I finished sketching it, I looked at it and it looked like a pistol.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_00: Seriously, the house was like it was like a pistol.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_00: And then I did this penthouse apartment in downtown San Diego, and the resident was a minister, which made me upset.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_00: Why should a minister have a penthouse apartment anywhere?
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_00: But I did the sketch, and it was like the layout of California.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_00: You you have to have good ability to sketch, to just to be reasonable and like I said, ethical, good math skills, and I think good, decent people's skills.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's the one skill that you have to have.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_00: You have to know what you can say, what you cannot say, what you shouldn't say.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes you will have to turn down an assignment, no matter how much money they want you to take.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's you have to be safe.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_00: You really do have to be safe.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_00: So I've turned down some very high fee assignments because I value my life and I value my health, people skills, and whatever that intuition is, you have to have that.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_01: Do you use AI at all in your work?
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I do.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_00: I do now.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_00: If I just want to find out little different things about a property, sometimes AI can go and search some archives, which I don't have.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_00: Or if I want, if I just want to write up a nicer little thing about a property, I'll just I'll give some of the qualities of this home.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_00: Help me to write a little thing on this property, and here's what the home has, this and this, and it'll help me write that.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_01: Nice.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_02: You touched on it for a second, and you don't have to answer this, but I'm really curious.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_02: Speaking of the penthouse and the minister own the penthouse, have you ever come across situations like that where you've just found it really hard to be fair?
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_00: Really hard to be fair.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I don't want to get in trouble.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_00: Mean people are my kryptonite.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_00: I mean you win you what they say, you catch more flies with honey or sugar or whatever you call it.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_00: People that are really surly and mean make it more difficult to just to be fair, but I'm fair all the time.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_00: But we're human, right?
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_00: We have this thing called a universal standards of professional appraiser practice use PAP.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_00: And if something that we do is not consistent with that, then we can be written up in the California Bureau of Appraisers.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_00: They receive complaints on appraisers all the time.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_00: Thankfully, the last time I looked, I wasn't on that page.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_02: What's the physical aspect of your job?
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_00: So that's most of the times I don't have to get into crawl spaces because that's a home inspector.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_00: Home inspectors will crawl in the crawl space, crawl, get up and crawl in the attic or walk around in your attic and stuff like that.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_00: The most that I would have to do, I'll take a photo of your crawl space.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_00: So if you have the some have the nice screens or whatever, and if I can move that out of the way, I'll just take a photo of it.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_00: But I don't have to go inside.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_00: And on FHA appraisals, I'll take photos of the crawl space, I'll take photos of the attic.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll take my step ladder and I'll move the little thing and I'll just take four photos.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_00: And what they want, what the lender wants or FHA, what they want to make sure there's no vermin, there's no infestation, you know what I'm saying?
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_00: And thankfully, I haven't seen any eyes looking back at me when I've taken those photos.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_00: But the the most physical aspect that you have is just walking around.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_00: I have my Fitbit on and count my steps, and it's a lot of it's a lot of fun just walking around and doing the appraisal.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_00: Now the heat wave has been rough.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I've been sweating through a lot of hats.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_00: And when El Nino comes, as they say El Nino is going to happen, then I'll I'll have my rain gear.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_00: So you have to be ready for the change of seasons, which isn't much here in San Diego, but when it does happen, you have to be ready for that.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_00: I we're hoping and we're waiting to see how much AI is going to be taking over the industry because some lenders they're using AVMs, automatic valuation models more than appraisers because they don't want to pay appraisers a fair wage.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you everybody for listening to another episode of Workplace Confessions Behind Closed Doors.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_02: And you've officially joined the ranks of the brave and the bold.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_01: That's it for this week's confession.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_01: We've laughed, cringed, and maybe questioned our own career choices.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_02: Big thanks to our anonymous guests for keeping it real and reminding us that behind every job title is a story worth telling.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_02: If you've got a workplace confession of your own over all years, hit us up at our email address.
• 44:29
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• 44:32
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• 44:35
  SPEAKER_01: Until next time, keep your badge cliff, your coffee's drunk, and your stories wild.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_01: This is Workplace Confession behind closed doors.