Latest / The Art of Costume Podcast / American Primeval with Costume Designer, Virginia B. Johnson

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American Primeval with Costume Designer, Virginia B. Johnson · The Art of Costume Podcast

0:06
Hello, and welcome to the Art of Costume podcast.
0:08
I'm your host, Spencer Williams, and thank you for joining me for
0:12
yet again another bonus episode. Hey costume nerds, Emmy season
0:18
continues over here at the podcast and I have another
0:21
exciting interview for you all as today I talked to costume
0:26
designer Virginia B Johnson, a new friend of mine who designed
0:30
the costumes for American Primeval.
0:32
You will know Virginia from quite a bit.
0:35
Some of her notable work includes The Man from Toronto,
0:38
The New Mutants, Surrogates, Hillbilly Elegy and Salem's Lot,
0:44
which is a film that came out recently which I.
0:46
Absolutely. Loved and did not know that
0:48
Virginia worked on the show when they interviewed her, so missed
0:51
opportunity on my part. And of course, Virginia B
0:55
Johnson was nominated for an Emmy in Outstanding period
0:58
costumes. This.
0:59
Season for her work. On American Primeval.
1:03
I love the show. It was devastating.
1:06
I was obsessed with. The realism of it?
1:08
How just to the point and how it didn't really sugarcoat any
1:13
aspect of this time period in Utah.
1:17
I learned a lot. Some things maybe I didn't want
1:20
to know and some things I'm very happy that were brought onto
1:26
screen. So and of course, I was blown
1:29
away by the costumes. I really, truly am in love with
1:33
the aging and dying in a breakdown.
1:35
We solve all these costumes with that.
1:37
Before I go on and on about the costumes and how much I adored
1:40
them, why don't we take a break? And when we come back, we'll be
1:44
joined by costume designer Virginia B Johnson.
1:47
And don't forget, coming out actually tomorrow, another
1:51
regular. Episode of the art.
1:53
Of Costume podcast. Where Elizabeth?
1:54
Will be with me and we'll be talking about the costumes of of
1:59
Elizabeth from 1998 as we'll be wrapping up our historical Hot
2:05
Girls summer series before we get into our adventure films and
2:10
of. Course the moment we've.
2:12
All been waiting for our spooky season, Now let's.
2:15
Get to the break. I am so thrilled to be here with
2:23
my new friend, costume designer Virginia B Johnson.
2:27
Hey Virginia, it's so nice to finally meet you.
2:30
I can't even tell you how excited I am, Spencer.
2:34
Like, see you like, like moving around in the flesh on my
2:38
computer screen as a as like a big fan of the pod and yeah, and
2:43
listener and viewer. It's just really exciting to be
2:46
here. Oh, that is, that is so, so
2:48
sweet. Well, I just really started to
2:50
get to know you recently with your work on American Primeval,
2:53
and I'm such a fan. It is such a great show.
2:56
And, you know, I'm a big fan of costume breakdown and textiles
3:01
and very much ruggedness and authenticity, which you very
3:05
much brought to the show. So I'm so excited to get into
3:08
it. But before we do, I don't want
3:10
to let you go without talking about your recent Emmy
3:12
nomination. Huge congratulations to you and
3:15
the crew. Outstanding period costumes.
3:19
Tell me about that moment. I mean, what was it like?
3:21
Where were you all jumping up and down?
3:23
I haven't. Do you believe it?
3:24
What's going on? I was literally sitting in a
3:29
Pilates class when I found out and freaking out that I hadn't
3:33
managed to close my exercise ring even though I'd been there
3:36
for a solid 45 minutes and was sweating.
3:40
And then finally, as we were like resetting our equipment, I
3:44
glanced at my watch and saw Congrats.
3:48
And I just hit the question mark and say the person like who
3:52
wrote back Emmy, Emmy, Emmy. And then I like, screamed and
3:57
ran away from my equipment to grab my phone.
4:01
And then like, had to go outside the studio to like, look at all
4:05
my text messages. But my phone wouldn't like
4:09
accept phone calls like so I only could communicate with
4:13
people via text. But I honestly was not.
4:17
I just didn't. I just wasn't expecting it.
4:19
So it was like really, really thrilling.
4:23
And it's just a testament to the work of the entire costume
4:28
department. Just so many hands.
4:30
Everything went and was touched by so many different people.
4:34
And I'm just really, I mean, it sounds a little trite, but it's
4:40
just such an honor to have that work recognized.
4:44
And I'm just so proud of my entire team that everything they
4:49
did over the course of those eight months was actually seen,
4:53
you know, like people saw it and really loved what the work they
4:57
did. So really excited about it.
5:00
Yeah, you all should be so proud.
5:01
I mean, it's truly such a fantastic show.
5:04
And I just, I can't wait to get into the costumes with you.
5:09
So let's talk about the series. American Primeval is a raw,
5:12
unflinching look at the violent collision between native tribes,
5:16
pioneers, Mormon soldiers, U.S. government, all in 1857, which,
5:21
you know, it's not exactly a fun time in Utah at the moment.
5:25
The show is grounded in realism and historical authenticity.
5:29
So I was going to ask you what initially drew you to this
5:33
project and tell me about working with director and
5:35
executive producer Pete Berg. Do I was in Hawaii working on
5:43
vacation friends and when I received a phone call from Pete
5:49
telling me a little bit about the project and seeing if I
5:52
would be interested in in chatting more.
5:56
And when he told me what the actual scope of the work was and
6:03
the fact that we would represent so many different native nations
6:10
on screen and how it was important to him and Markel
6:15
Smith to really make that feel very real.
6:19
And I was immediately struck with how few opportunities we
6:26
got to put various significant cultural representations of
6:33
dress on the screen for a large scale audience.
6:37
I come from the world of docudramas.
6:40
Some of my first work was actually for PBS and we would
6:45
dive deep into the research of it.
6:47
But you know, that is like they were just like a little
6:50
snapshots of what people wore. Never like seeing how people
6:54
truly exist from dawn to dusk in what they were wearing and how
6:59
and how they decorated themselves.
7:01
So that was really exciting to me and this idea that, you know,
7:06
when you were settling the lands that are already, you know,
7:12
settled what what do you bring with you and what are you
7:17
prepared for and what aren't you prepared for?
7:20
And that was also, it's like, you know, something that
7:23
fascinates me about action movies too, Like how do you get
7:28
from point A to point B in what you're wearing and what is what
7:32
happens to what you wear through through that actual journey?
7:37
I think that I have. I've done 4 projects with Pete
7:43
in the past, the first being Patriots Day, which once again
7:47
it was like a research heavy. We wanted to really honor the
7:53
people who experienced that really horrific moment in
7:59
Boston's history and the marathon.
8:02
And, you know, I've really wanted to be respectful and true
8:10
to, you know, the people that I consider my neighbors.
8:13
I live in Greater Boston, and I was here for that event.
8:18
And it really did kind of like change the city in ways that,
8:22
you know, no one was really talking about.
8:26
So I think I had proven that I am super committed to, like,
8:31
digging in deep but also not making another documentary.
8:36
I want to really think about those choices and what
8:41
everyone's wearing as a way to further enhance the character
8:46
and further visually tell the story of where we are and what's
8:50
happening. So I think those experiences
8:54
really helped me continued doing that kind of work for American
8:59
Primeval. Sure.
9:01
So with that, you know, I'm really fascinated to hear about
9:04
your research process for this project.
9:07
So I understand you worked with our mutual friend Julie O'Keefe,
9:10
who served as Indigenous cultural consultant, project
9:13
advisor, who have gone to interview and work with her a
9:15
few times. I'm curious to hear like what
9:18
kinds of what kinds of research resources did you rely on?
9:22
What were some of the most meaningful things you learned
9:24
during that research phase? So I always start by digging
9:30
deep into the art and the literature of that era of
9:36
anything like like currently, you know, I'm looking into 2010
9:40
and I want to know like what were the icons and what was
9:44
everyday life like? And so that's where I started
9:46
with Primeval. I know it's like centered on
9:50
settling the Utah Territory, but and who and in the end owns
9:55
Utah. And, but I was also looking at
10:01
who are the bodies of people that are settling West and where
10:07
are they from? Where do they shop and all of
10:12
that kind of stuff. And, you know, we had a great
10:16
consultant, Dudley Gardner, who is out of Wyoming and knows so
10:20
much about Fort Bridger and just so much about the Mormon
10:25
militia, all of that kind of stuff.
10:27
And he was like able to send like photos from museums of like
10:30
an actual beehive button. And just like what an amazing
10:35
resource like to men be like, wow, somebody's going to think
10:39
this is really cool. So in my mind, I'm like, I need
10:43
to make some beehive buttons. But also, just like there is
10:48
this amazing costume historian who passed away in 2015 and she
10:57
was out of Wisconsin. Yeah.
10:59
Wisconsin state's Historical Society.
11:02
Joan El Severa. It's pardon the Severa family if
11:07
I'm saying your last name wrong, but she has to one really
11:11
popular book that's dressed for the photographer everyday
11:16
Americans from 1840 to 1890. Her lesser known title, which
11:23
was one I leaned on really hard, was my likeness taken and it's
11:29
Daguerreian portraits from 1840 to I think 1860, something like
11:36
that. And what she does is it's not
11:41
just like this daguerreotype that's you know, in the in the
11:45
book. She then does like a deep and
11:48
that analysis into everything on the body, everything they're
11:53
wearing, their hairstyle, the accessories.
11:56
And through reading the text, you learn so much about, you
12:01
know, she's looking at the the details of a pleat or Princess
12:06
theme to tell you that this is actually a garment that's
12:10
probably been recycled from 1830 to fit into an 1840s fashion.
12:18
And the reason that is she's making this this analysis is
12:21
because of a certain way the person's wearing their hair or
12:25
the way they have suddenly added an accessory.
12:28
So going through that really gave me a sense of what everyday
12:32
people who might have been settling West, you know, how
12:36
they dressed and what were the prints and all those interesting
12:40
things that you don't get if you're just looking at a costume
12:43
history book. And what's really important to
12:48
me and understanding like, 'cause we still, there were
12:52
still manufactured clothing. We like to think that everything
12:55
is like handmade. It's still like the 19th
12:58
century, but we were still manufactured like manufactured
13:02
ready to wear did exist. And there's also this steamship
13:06
that sank the Arabia and it was carrying a bunch of dry goods
13:15
West. And you can go to this like
13:19
museum and see the footwear, the hairpins and all like in the
13:26
accessories and garments that like were like somehow preserved
13:31
in the mud. And then they were able to
13:33
excavate and they were like, yeah, it's totally nuts.
13:36
So I. Gotta get there.
13:38
Yeah, I. Know I was like can I like?
13:41
Bucking in on the side. But there's like great
13:47
photographs from that, those exhibits where I was like, this
13:51
is how a pair of pants would have been if you were like to
13:54
buy them from a trading post, you know.
13:57
So that kind of information like goes, I think a step further
14:01
than just seeing what you know is available in our mainstream
14:05
museums, which are often garments that were worn by
14:08
people who made maybe didn't wear their clothes all the time.
14:11
And what we needed to see are the clothes that have been
14:14
handed down and worn all the time and have undergone like a
14:20
long, long journey for like the native things, though, you know,
14:24
I did, I reached out to Julie because of Killers of the Flower
14:29
Moon and our connection to Jacqueline West and wanting more
14:36
resources. And like, our first
14:38
conversations were about how do we make contact with
14:44
craftspeople and storytellers from these nations, from
14:51
Shoshone Paiute and Ute so that we aren't just creating these
14:59
clothes and accessories in a vacuum.
15:02
Just based on maybe what I'm finding at the National Museum
15:07
of the American Indian. Like I really wanted the
15:12
feedback and the actual craftsmanship of, of people
15:18
whose like stories are often told through somebody else's
15:22
lens. So like to give that opportunity
15:26
for them to have hand in what is going to be projected was key to
15:33
me. And Julie was great at like
15:35
putting me in contact and helping facilitate
15:39
conversations. And like, literally, I'd be
15:41
like, here is the dress we've made and I'm painting in where I
15:46
think the the dye would be would have been painted.
15:49
And then like she like we texted in a group chat and he would be
15:53
like, no, it should be a little bit smaller, a little bit, you
15:56
know, and it was great to get like that immediate feedback.
15:59
I don't, I don't want that feedback after we put it up.
16:02
You know, I wanted the feedback while we were making it, but,
16:07
you know, like, this community in Oklahoma, like made all of
16:13
the moccasins and yeah, like an elder out of the Eastern
16:22
Shoshone, like made the breastplate that red Feather
16:25
wore. And it's like all of those
16:27
elements that then also help the actor know that this is not a
16:33
costume. This is literally made by the
16:37
hands of the ancestors of the people we're representing.
16:41
Sure. So much storytelling is like
16:43
sitting on, you know, the backs of these garments as well too.
16:46
So you're carrying a lot of that through the storytelling and
16:49
some of these very heavy, intense scenes.
16:52
So actually wanted to talk about some of these characters as
16:56
well, particularly Red Feather. And winter bird their.
16:59
Costumes obviously stood out to me for their textiles and
17:03
material choices, so how essential were textiles to your
17:06
approach and designing for the Shoshone?
17:09
So there is like a, like a story about how we really wanted to
17:16
use like, authentic real Leathers because after sampling
17:21
like faux or vegan Leathers, it just didn't have the same kind
17:25
of drape. It didn't age the same.
17:28
And, you know, in conversations with Curtis Barney, who is a
17:33
elder in the Eastern Shoshone Nation, you know, was like
17:38
really adamant that it would have been made from brain tanned
17:42
hide. And that, you know, if we could
17:45
do that, even if it's artificial brain tan, we then we would have
17:49
like at least chosen the right material for the clothing.
17:54
And in my conversations with our production designer, Renee was
18:00
like, how do we make it visually clear the various nations, like
18:07
the natives, people that live around Fort Bridger, like who
18:12
are like trading with Fort Bridger, who work there.
18:16
Suddenly you see them with like kind of like what we call the
18:20
Eurocentric textile, wool, cottons, linens.
18:25
And then you see the Ute who are scavenging from all of these
18:30
raids and you see that infiltration of they're still
18:34
wearing a lot of deer hide and Buffalo.
18:38
But you see some elements from the the raids.
18:43
You know, maybe somebody is wearing like Eurocentric style
18:47
sack coat. And then we get to winter bird
18:51
and the Shoshone, which is like like purist.
18:55
We don't see that the the European cut coats, we don't see
19:05
European boots. What we are seeing is like true
19:09
all hides, furs, feathers, all of these things found through
19:19
living in in the land, living in their communities.
19:23
For like Winter Bird, we had these artificial replicas of elk
19:31
teeth made because the elk teeth on your garment signified that
19:37
you had a great hunter in your family.
19:40
So the more elk teeth, the more stature you had.
19:44
So there was a dress in the Wyoming Historical Society's
19:51
collection that had like all these beautiful elk teeth
19:54
stitched on the front of the hide.
19:56
And, you know, I showed that to Irene.
19:59
And she was really, she loved it, loved this idea that she
20:02
would have more elk teeth than anyone else.
20:05
And that was a way of showing her position in the in the
20:08
community. And then in one of the scenes
20:13
she also has this rabbit. Fur, cloak and those are all
20:19
individual Rapids that you know, are all stitched together in the
20:25
very traditional manner they would have been done.
20:28
And again, another way of showing stature where is like
20:33
red feather it once again in hide, but also like a little
20:39
more intensely decorated in a little more aged to show that
20:45
they are not in like the stable community.
20:47
They're always on the move. But again, all brain tanned gear
20:52
hide. Wow, that's I mean, I'm sure you
20:56
learned so much on this. I'm speaking to you.
20:58
You. Know, like, there's like, states
21:00
in my brain where I was like, did I lose childhood memories?
21:03
Yeah. When, when the show ended, I
21:07
mean, were you still feeling like you're in that world a
21:09
little bit too and still seeing research come about?
21:12
Oh God, it's really hard to like, let go of all that
21:18
information. Plus like we filmed in like
21:21
these wild rough locations in New Mexico that like the first
21:26
time I took out my blunt stone boots, like in winter, I was
21:31
like, that is like New Mexico mud.
21:33
Like it's just it's never coming off.
21:36
Same with like my winter coat. I was just like, I am just my
21:41
clothes look like I tried to settle in the Wild West, you
21:44
know, like it's just nuts. Well, that brings me to where
21:48
where I want to go next, switching to our traveling group
21:51
with of Isaac, Sarah, Devin and two moons.
21:55
These characters, unlike most of the characters in this series,
21:59
endure extreme environments and physical challenges throughout
22:02
the series. There's dirt, there's snow,
22:05
there's blood, lots of blood, lots of dirt.
22:10
So how did the landscape and climate shape your design
22:13
process? I imagine the costume breakdown
22:15
process for American Primeval was quite significant, so I
22:19
would love to hear all about it. Yeah, I mean, two of the
22:24
characters that were probably the most challenging to actually
22:27
design were Isaac and two Moons. Because two moons having lived
22:32
in Fort Bridger, like figuring out what she did there, how she
22:36
existed. How do we like note that she is
22:40
from a native community, but also is like working in on the
22:48
Fort And then like to do that. Like we realized that in those
22:55
lighter weight garments, the cotton and linen, like why when
22:59
they head into winter, like it's like, oh, like you wouldn't have
23:03
survived. Like, you know, you're like, we
23:06
have made some some decisions here that aren't necessarily
23:11
great for running. So it was like, you know, Mark
23:17
and Pete like already had like all these beats built in where
23:21
we were going to come across these stampeded settlers and
23:27
they were going to forage and find warmer garments.
23:31
And so those then raised other opportunities to add to the
23:35
clothing because you're not necessarily losing clothing you
23:39
needed more as we headed up the mountain and.
23:43
They weren't traveling with suitcases either, so.
23:45
I know. Like, they don't even, like,
23:47
sometimes they had horses, sometimes they didn't.
23:51
Yeah. Like they're really being forced
23:54
to like just use whatever they come across to, to stay warm.
23:58
And I'm still mobile. Like they couldn't slow down.
24:02
That was like kind of the that part, that beating drum of the
24:06
series, Like you have to keep moving because there's always
24:09
someone hunting them. But what I also love about those
24:14
4 characters is like this idea of what will we do to care for
24:22
others. And like, I don't know if people
24:24
noticed, but it was really important to me that as the
24:30
weather changed and the terrain changed that we like made all of
24:36
like the hand wraps and scarves and everything, the things to
24:43
like wrap Devin, we're all part of Sarah's costume.
24:48
So like it's her petticoat wrapped around his hands.
24:53
It's part of her skirt that is wrapped around 2 Moon's body.
24:58
And like, we use those same fabrics and like totally broke
25:01
them down to show that they've been drug through the terrain,
25:07
but that this here's a person who is willing to sacrifice
25:11
everything for her child and to help this other child keep
25:16
going, you know, and that was the key to like building that
25:23
character for me. Like, if anyone noticed, great.
25:26
But to me, and in my conversations with Benny it, it
25:31
was important that you know, whatever you can do to keep your
25:35
kid warm is is important. Right.
25:38
And I mean, and a little notes like that to help, like you
25:41
said, like these these actors feel like the character really
25:45
get into the mindset of these people from the 1850s.
25:48
And I think. Someone who really speaks to
25:50
that is Betty Gilpin, who plays is Sarah, who really acts as a
25:53
powerful anchor throughout this story, going through this
25:58
journey with the audience. So what is your approach to
26:01
designing Sarah's look and what was it like working with Betty
26:05
to help shape that character through costume?
26:07
And I also would love to hear about your thoughts and
26:10
representing the specific challenges faced by women in
26:13
1857 because she really carries a lot of that on her as well.
26:17
Yeah, I mean, that element of like this woman surviving
26:25
domestic violence, not having access to your own money, all of
26:29
these things that, like, force you away from the comforts of
26:34
home and how important it is to like raise and provide for your
26:39
child. Another reason that I was drawn
26:42
to the story and in those early conversations with Betty, like
26:48
it's understanding that in the 1850s, though, there's not a
26:54
hotline you call and you, you know, need to not stand out like
27:00
as you're moving West and there is like this desire when
27:07
somebody is like breaking free that.
27:10
And then I heard this from males all the time.
27:12
Why isn't she wearing pants? And I go back to some, once
27:19
again, the research where women were literally being arrested
27:24
for wearing pants in public. Like you could be fined.
27:29
So for her to have run away, one that's like, you know, possibly
27:35
for murder. You know, you're not going to
27:38
put on pants. You are, you're going to do as
27:44
much as possible to blend in. So a woman needs to wear the
27:48
dress, wear the corset, put on the big coat.
27:51
You know, like you're suddenly weighed down by your position in
27:55
the world, which is like been dictated by fashion.
28:00
That's how we know you're a woman in this world and where
28:03
you fall in the world. And then, you know, arriving to
28:09
Fort Bridger, you know, she looks as like together and prim
28:14
and proper, even using strength and like knowing what she wants
28:20
full heartedly sometimes knowing what where she needs to be next.
28:24
But she does that in a way that everybody else who understands
28:29
women in the world, because we already have this idea in the
28:33
1850s of what maybe a widow looks like or what an upper
28:40
middle class, lower upper class woman looks like.
28:44
Already she's giving off those clues.
28:46
So people take her seriously. People are like willing to like
28:50
be hired or you know what a robber, like all that kind of
28:55
stuff. You know, we've laid the
28:57
groundwork for that because that's what it meant to be a
29:01
woman alone in the world in the 1850s.
29:04
We didn't, I was like, I'm not this isn't a fairy tale.
29:07
If we're going to be true and honor what it meant to be, you
29:11
know, Brigham Young or Jim Bridger, we need to do the same
29:14
for this fictional woman on her own and why it's so dangerous to
29:19
be on her own. She also like, you know, when we
29:26
like start traveling and we're on the run.
29:29
It was like also like a feat of like, how does a woman do that
29:32
when you have like 3 petticoats on and a big wool skirt, you
29:37
know? And we had made a conscious
29:39
decision as part of the character not to put her in like
29:42
a dress where the bodice and the skirt are attached.
29:46
We went with what's called the Basque bodice.
29:49
So it's more like a jacket. It has like a little peplum.
29:53
If we did it out of like something that felt smart and
29:58
that like was dark. So because she's traveling, we
30:02
don't want there to be a lot of dirt showing up.
30:05
It has to be resilient. But like doing that jacket
30:09
versus a dress then would allow to like lose layers.
30:13
Eventually, she did end up in pants.
30:18
She was probably very thankful. By that point, though, she did
30:22
say that it was really warm. Like when we got up into the
30:26
mountains and you're in the skirts and the layers, it's much
30:30
warmer than a pair of pants. Let me tell you.
30:34
She's like, oh, the skirts were warmer.
30:37
Oh well. Oh geez.
30:40
Well, before we go, I really want to actually use Fort
30:44
Bridger as an example because I really think it's a great moment
30:47
to show just how well, how many costumes and actors there were
30:51
on set. Sometimes there were huge crowd
30:53
scenes. Of course, we have the massacre
30:54
scene as well, some battle scenes or even Brigham Young and
30:59
the Mormons game together for their sermons.
31:01
So I really want to use that opportunity to talk about your
31:04
crew. What?
31:06
Tell me about the people that you worked with and how you all
31:09
were able to rely on each other to help create some of these
31:12
huge crowd scenes. Yeah, I mean, Fort Bridger was a
31:17
beast when we got there. Like I threw like a little
31:21
weekend BBQ. There's like, we arrived at Fort
31:24
Bridger like we had really been marching towards that moment.
31:29
And like many period shows, but specifically period shows where
31:34
you have a lot of action, everything is made like yes,
31:41
some of our background we were able to pull and rent from
31:46
United American Costumes, which you know, is known for their
31:50
like stock of 1800s, you know, in that world of the Western.
31:55
But we are pre Western, so it needed to feel a little more
31:59
dated. So that was like a wonderful
32:02
resource. And Diana Foster, like, was so
32:05
kind and generous with us to help us get those big crowds of
32:11
people and, you know, really understood the aesthetic and
32:15
like that we didn't want things that felt precious.
32:17
They had to feel dirty and rugged.
32:19
And so that was a fantastic resource for all of us.
32:24
And we actually started our prep at United America and we used a
32:28
workroom there and had once again an amazing, amazing
32:33
leather like sample maker and then ended up doing most of our
32:40
principles, Sarah Huff and Sarah or Sarah.
32:46
And they once again like leggings and the breech clothes
32:52
and the war shirts, like did those initial pieces for us and
32:59
then came and helped establish all of that and built like
33:02
winter birds dress, built the big Buffalo coach that Isaac
33:07
wears and like with that took 2 Buffalo hides.
33:11
Like, so like, you know, we had that prep period in early 20 in,
33:16
I guess the holidays of 2022. And then, you know, on the
33:22
ground, we are great, you know, fantastically organized.
33:27
Savvy costume supervisor Tanya Barrett was like on the ground
33:33
in New Mexico getting everything set up and trying to find this
33:38
massive team of people to make it all happen.
33:42
Because we knew that action would be so hefty that we were
33:46
going to have to build the militia, build all of our like,
33:53
Native nations, because also those nations hadn't been
33:59
represented in the past. So to do them true, like
34:02
authentic, honorable justice was to actually make them from
34:07
scratch. All of like the Cutter gang,
34:10
that's all built, you know, they're just like this
34:13
hodgepodge of wool and leather and linen.
34:18
And then, yeah, so that gigantic team, there were days where I
34:23
was like, there's like 75 people that I am trying to like, touch
34:29
base with. And there were times where I was
34:31
like, oh, who are you? You know, like you're like, Oh
34:35
my God, did you just fit like 30 background?
34:38
And so it was just a feat of really trying to find really
34:46
good key people to kind of manage the micro departments so
34:52
that we could all stay on the same page.
34:55
And we definitely had to divide and conquer the work.
34:58
But we were on this like former college campus in Santa Fe.
35:04
And so we had like some of us were in the theater, like
35:08
literally like in the theater building.
35:11
And so we had the costume shop and like the leather was
35:14
backstage of the actual theater and they would like set up.
35:18
They just have like boxes of different hides and shelves of
35:21
different animal hides. Like on the stage.
35:24
It was like so surreal. And they were literally like in
35:28
the scene shop of what that theater had been.
35:30
And then we had this really long hallway and in the lobby was
35:34
where we had like what we call everybody joke that I had like
35:38
built this fabric store in the lobby because we just had all
35:41
these giant rolls of fabric. Because unlike other shows where
35:45
maybe you're building a coat, like we'd be like, oh, we got to
35:48
build him a coat and a stuntman a coat.
35:50
Oh, and then they're going to like get all blood.
35:53
So we need to build 6 coats. So we would buy like these like
35:56
30 to 40, you know, yard pulse fabric and they were just all in
36:02
there and you'd walk in and it was like super weird.
36:05
And then and then all the racks of the clothes, like in the
36:10
actual like red carpeted lobby, there was just like racks and
36:15
racks of clothes. But then you would cross the
36:17
campus to age die and they had a whole like dorm like mommy.
36:24
And that was where all of that was set up.
36:27
And yeah, you would like walk across campus.
36:30
So people really got their steps in and yeah, we, we did all of
36:37
our fittings and like consultations and the meetings
36:40
and everything in what had been like a dance studio, like in the
36:44
whole thing was this huge just. And the fact that it's.
36:48
Like a factory. I know.
36:50
And people were able to like you had to get up.
36:55
You had to get up and leave your space to like make sure that
36:58
clothes got from one part of the campus to the next so that it
37:03
went through all of the processes.
37:05
And then we have this great key, Joanna, who like made sure then
37:10
that everything was bagged and tagged and sent to the right
37:12
truck because we had two trucks. So there's just like a logistics
37:16
element to it that was would not have been possible with all
37:20
those people being very transparent about the work and
37:25
really asking for what they needed and when they would need
37:28
it. Because sometimes we just are
37:29
like, oh, that's the due date I can get.
37:31
You know, we, we really had to have sometimes really
37:34
challenging conversations about what is possible.
37:38
Can we do this? Do we have what we need to do
37:41
this? Well, you all worked in such
37:43
great Symphony, obviously it looked incredible on screen with
37:46
all you know, your big olfactory and all.
37:48
It all came together and you also just be so proud.
37:52
So Virginia, as we wrap up, I just want to ask you, what has
37:55
this series meant to you personally and what do you hope
37:58
audiences take away from? Watching American Primeval.
38:01
Well, I think that one of the things that is really important
38:07
to me as someone who doesn't like design in anyone genre, I
38:11
really just hope that these stories, these people, real and
38:16
fictional, encourage folks to just think a little bit about
38:22
whose stories are missing. Whose stories do we not hear
38:27
enough of and why is that? And can we enthusiastically want
38:34
to hear more? And I definitely see that in the
38:38
native communities as they rallied around red feather and
38:44
winter bird stories and this they want to know more about the
38:50
nations that, you know, you know, attempted to survive
38:56
American expansionism. And yeah, so I just, I hope it
39:00
makes people want eagerly want to hear more of those missing
39:06
stories in the like, what we see, what's available and that
39:11
we've put so much effort and money into creating in this
39:16
instance that, you know, makes it all the more, I mean,
39:22
valuable to like the larger storytelling ethos, I guess the
39:27
universe. You know, we just added a new
39:31
chapter to how we understand the people that made this country.
39:38
Sure. Well, costume designer Virginia
39:40
B Johnson, thank you so much for talking to me.
39:42
I'm so glad I got to meet you. This has been so fun and so
39:46
enlightening. I feel like I've learned so much
39:48
from you and I look forward to the next time we get to do this.
39:52
Spencer It was a joy. I love getting to nerd out about
39:57
all the history. Behind everything we could go
39:59
all day I. Know, and I just I so appreciate
40:04
this podcast and you know all that you do to like shine the
40:07
light on the many, many people it takes to bring a story to
40:12
life on screen. So thank.
40:13
You. That's so kind.
40:14
Congratulations once again. OK, thanks.
40:17
Take care.