Latest / Conversations with Cumberland Heights / From Residential to Outpatient: One Counselor's Journey Through Recovery, Treatment & Growth

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From Residential to Outpatient: One Counselor's Journey Through Recovery, Treatment & Growth · Conversations with Cumberland Heights

• 0:00
  Jason.
• 0:01
  Welcome. Thank you. Thank you for having me.
• 0:04
  So I've been really looking forward to this.
• 0:08
  And it's just completely ironic that you're
• 0:11
  in the middle of a transition with a different role with us.
• 0:15
  Yeah, but a little bit of a different role.
• 0:17
  So tell people who you are, what your name is.
• 0:21
  Briefly, what your background is, maybe what your training is
• 0:23
  and what you've been doing,
• 0:24
  what your job has been at Cumberland Heights and for how long?
• 0:28
  Yeah. So my name is Jason Sillitoe.
• 0:30
  I'm a licensed alcohol drug abuse counselor in the state of Tennessee.
• 0:33
  I'm also in recovery from alcohol and other substances.
• 0:39
  And I basically,
• 0:41
  I got my foot in the door to treatment after, working my own program of recovery.
• 0:46
  I fell in love with
• 0:47
  helping people as a sponsor, and,
• 0:51
  while in my, my early stage of recovery housing was it was an issue.
• 0:54
  So I went to a sober living, and, I was one of their better clients.
• 0:59
  I did what I was told,
• 1:00
  and I was working my part of recovery really well, and the owners liked that.
• 1:03
  And so they offered me a job in Houseman,
• 1:07
  and that was kind of like my first,
• 1:11
  supervisory role and treatment as a, as a house manager.
• 1:14
  And that was a learning experience.
• 1:17
  Had some hard times.
• 1:20
  Yeah.
• 1:20
  You know, had to deal with some dust in the house,
• 1:23
  which unfortunately is something that happens. But,
• 1:27
  I also was able to help some guys out.
• 1:29
  And so I talked with my sponsor.
• 1:31
  I said, I think I like this, I want to change my career path.
• 1:34
  Right. And so he says, well, what do you need to do?
• 1:37
  I said, I think I might just look into it some more. He's like, good idea.
• 1:39
  Do some research.
• 1:41
  And I found a place where I could pay to get certified
• 1:44
  as a certified alcohol drug abuse counselor, and that's where I started.
• 1:49
  Went to school, got my specialty hours
• 1:51
  needed, worked in IOP.
• 1:55
  And, kind of just started clocking hours.
• 1:58
  Got my got my KDKA, passed the ICRC.
• 2:02
  And then, long story short,
• 2:05
  found the woman that I absolutely love.
• 2:08
  I'm in the married up club.
• 2:11
  And, Covid happened,
• 2:13
  and we had a kid, so things just kind of quickly moved on.
• 2:18
  And when we had our daughter, Kyler, she was about six months
• 2:21
  old, and and, we wanted to make a change.
• 2:24
  And so she had some family out in Tennessee.
• 2:28
  And, one day I just said, I think we need to move to Tennessee.
• 2:31
  So we started looking, and,
• 2:34
  God has provided us a path.
• 2:36
  And while we were selling our house, I found a place called Cumberland Heights
• 2:40
  that I'd never heard of.
• 2:42
  And there was a spot open, so I applied and I got it.
• 2:45
  And so before we moved out here, we had a house where we both had jobs.
• 2:48
  Yeah. There was no obstacle.
• 2:51
  And so
• 2:53
  been working here ever since I,
• 2:55
  transitions my certification to licensure
• 2:58
  and started off as a float counselor in the men's department,
• 3:01
  working all different departments
• 3:03
  and been a primary counselor for about four and a half years now.
• 3:07
  So. And what's that like?
• 3:10
  Like what?
• 3:11
  For somebody that has no idea what happens in residential care
• 3:15
  or what it's about day to day.
• 3:17
  What's it like?
• 3:19
  What time do you get here?
• 3:20
  When do you hit your spacebar?
• 3:21
  Like, what are you doing?
• 3:23
  It is a it is a full day.
• 3:26
  I, having wasted a lot of
• 3:30
  time in my disease, I use the best of my time.
• 3:34
  So I wake up really early.
• 3:36
  Self-care is very important to me.
• 3:38
  So I wake up at about four, I go to the gym, and then, I live in Springhill.
• 3:43
  So I have to leave there at the perfect time.
• 3:46
  Because if you don't need Springhill.
• 3:47
  Yeah, you're early enough. You're stuck on that 31.
• 3:50
  So it's right.
• 3:50
  I'm out the door by 630.
• 3:51
  I could hear about 730 ish.
• 3:54
  On a good day, another day days.
• 3:55
  I'm here at eight.
• 3:57
  And then,
• 3:59
  it's running until about 330, and that's my window to go home,
• 4:03
  because once again, there's more traffic. So,
• 4:06
  primary group is, what?
• 4:08
  The patient's one of their favorite things.
• 4:10
  It's, every day, group work, counselors, caseload all meets together.
• 4:15
  And that's where the, intense and sitcom's
• 4:18
  feedback sharing challenges on campus, off campus.
• 4:22
  And then we get to work individual clients.
• 4:25
  So when we have a full caseload, it's usually for me it's a 9 a.m.
• 4:29
  session or primary group.
• 4:30
  And then after lunch it's another 1:00 session.
• 4:33
  And then the remaining times, filling the days all documentation.
• 4:38
  You also have to be available for crisis management because that stuff happens too.
• 4:42
  So you have to be very flexible.
• 4:45
  Which can be hard at times for some of it's very,
• 4:48
  you know, discipline in their, in their structure.
• 4:50
  But patients come first.
• 4:52
  So Jason, what do you think four and a half years in this role.
• 4:55
  What's the goal for somebody that's in your group.
• 4:58
  What's what do you think the goal is for this period of treatment.
• 5:04
  Or a counselor.
• 5:05
  You know, for a patient. Or.
• 5:07
  Oh, stabilization.
• 5:09
  That's that's pretty much as much as you're I mean,
• 5:12
  I don't want to discredit the first 30 days, you know, but detoxes, detox.
• 5:16
  Detox is the physical aspect.
• 5:18
  The remainder of the 30 days is clearing the cobwebs out of the noggin.
• 5:22
  Okay.
• 5:23
  It's it's really being aware of what your emotions are.
• 5:26
  It's finding out who am I now that the substances are here.
• 5:29
  How do I deal.
• 5:30
  You know like right now
• 5:31
  I got several clients that are sick for the first time in recovery
• 5:36
  and they've been so used to being sick and intoxicated,
• 5:39
  they haven't ever felt the pain of being sick.
• 5:41
  So being sick for the first time in recovery is awful
• 5:44
  because you feel everything.
• 5:46
  And so it's like you feel like you're dying and it's like, no, you do.
• 5:49
  You just have allergies. That's what this feels like.
• 5:51
  So welcome. This is what everybody going through right now.
• 5:55
  So it's
• 5:55
  it's more of you know, depending on the client's willingness counselor's
• 5:59
  main objective is to find a pathway to support them moving forward.
• 6:05
  And the other underlying symptoms that might cause substance use
• 6:11
  because not all fam it's not always a family B disposition.
• 6:15
  It can be trauma.
• 6:16
  Too much love not enough abuse or neglect.
• 6:20
  Sexual trauma could be other forms of trauma, could be mental health.
• 6:24
  And a lot of people don't realize I have a drinking problem.
• 6:28
  We'll know.
• 6:28
  You also
• 6:30
  cope with anxiety by drinking, right?
• 6:32
  You have a you have a an adverse childhood experience that you never looked at.
• 6:37
  And and that's something that's reoccurring.
• 6:40
  You don't you're not aware of it.
• 6:41
  So, it's helping them better understand their life
• 6:45
  and then maybe other avenues to support their recovery.
• 6:48
  Because if it's if it's a, a, not a,
• 6:53
  a big
• 6:54
  picture thing, we're only really dealing with one problem.
• 6:57
  So how does the milieu shift
• 7:00
  your treatment goals for patients like I just I'm
• 7:03
  so I'm a recovering
• 7:07
  therapist myself.
• 7:08
  You know, I used to work in treatment in terms of being patient, facing, and,
• 7:14
  of course, you know, I don't do that anymore.
• 7:17
  And it's been some time,
• 7:20
  eight years since I've been patient facing in a treatment setting.
• 7:24
  And I'm curious, your strategy, your insight over those eight years,
• 7:30
  which is different than than the years before that, you know,
• 7:34
  culture changes, trends shift,
• 7:37
  like I'm curious about from a residential perspective,
• 7:41
  you know, are you allowed to push
• 7:43
  and pull and mold
• 7:46
  based on the milieu that you have in your group,
• 7:48
  or are you trying to set a similar homeostatic
• 7:54
  change process no matter what, or are you just taking it as it comes?
• 7:58
  You just take it as it comes? Yeah.
• 8:00
  If I go into a group setting with an expectation,
• 8:04
  there, I come out with an agenda.
• 8:07
  Interesting.
• 8:08
  You know, you really you might have an idea of okay, so
• 8:11
  so and so as opposed to, to step the whole thing.
• 8:15
  Right.
• 8:16
  But then once you sit them all down, you have them check in and you know,
• 8:19
  you have them,
• 8:20
  you know, you do a self assessment of their of their anxiety cravings,
• 8:23
  their depression, all those things. Yeah.
• 8:25
  But with how their internals are doing,
• 8:28
  that's not something I typically have to chair in group.
• 8:31
  It's a little more intimate.
• 8:32
  I think they're more honest when they don't share.
• 8:33
  So it's something, you know, they can provide it to me,
• 8:35
  but then they start sharing about problems and then the whole day
• 8:39
  could be just problem solved.
• 8:40
  And so that idea of what you are planning is going to be about.
• 8:44
  Let's have this huge psychotherapy group and get down to the core
• 8:47
  of whatever that it's like, yeah, forget about it.
• 8:49
  It's truly client centered.
• 8:51
  Yes. Super interesting.
• 8:54
  And you have to it reminds me a little bit of experience.
• 8:57
  And, you know,
• 8:58
  when I was in graduate school, like being exposed to adolescent care.
• 9:02
  And I
• 9:03
  always had to be really careful with pace.
• 9:06
  Like being in recovery I was always wanting to
• 9:11
  this is going to sound harsh but I don't mean it that way.
• 9:13
  But I was always let was always wanting to push into vulnerability or
• 9:21
  I'm an EFT therapist by passion, you know.
• 9:24
  And so I was always trying to identify what's the process underneath the content.
• 9:30
  Right. Content of the day.
• 9:31
  The content.
• 9:33
  What's happening underneath that might be a recurring frustration
• 9:36
  with my partner or whatever. Yeah.
• 9:38
  And you know you do treatment with adolescents
• 9:41
  and you need to slow down there a different developmental.
• 9:47
  And a lot of people talk about addiction treatment
• 9:51
  from a developmental lens in the sense that,
• 9:54
  you know, people that have been drinking and drugging for 20 years
• 10:00
  are at a different,
• 10:01
  on average, developmental stage than their peers at the same age. Yes.
• 10:07
  And I, I find some I, I can see what your day to day might feel
• 10:12
  like in terms of just allowing people to be where they are, literally.
• 10:15
  Yeah.
• 10:16
  So it's funny you say that
• 10:16
  because I was actually just having an interaction with the client.
• 10:20
  And their whole life has been
• 10:22
  a basically constant fight or flight stress response.
• 10:28
  And so from childhood and they were on,
• 10:32
  they were constantly under, right.
• 10:36
  Hardly any good interactions.
• 10:37
  And so they get here and they're like, here's what's next.
• 10:41
  I'm like.
• 10:44
  Right now you can slow down.
• 10:45
  You're not ready for how we're gonna take care of,
• 10:48
  you know.
• 10:48
  So there is that there's a good time to
• 10:50
  there's a time where you do need to push your client a little bit, and there's time
• 10:54
  we need to tell patient to kind of like, pump the brakes.
• 10:57
  Yeah. So.
• 10:59
  Oh, it's about to shift for you a little bit. Yes.
• 11:04
  So tell people what you're doing next.
• 11:06
  So once again I'm a big I'm a big, spiritual guy.
• 11:11
  And God has just been so good to me.
• 11:13
  I'm very blessed for the lifetime of,
• 11:16
  you know, like, I said before, I've been with Carolyn for about almost five years.
• 11:19
  River road, I do my main focus and,
• 11:25
  I started going to school at Hazelden Betty Ford Graduate School,
• 11:29
  and so shout out school work.
• 11:33
  But father, husband, you know, my plate, my bandwidth at school.
• 11:38
  And, to be honest, I've been I've been waiting for the spot.
• 11:41
  I've been waiting for a long time.
• 11:43
  And I always just knew that if I did the right thing,
• 11:46
  the door open when it's supposed to happen.
• 11:49
  And I just can't,
• 11:50
  I can't
• 11:51
  point to anything else other than God working my life.
• 11:54
  This opportunity opened up,
• 11:57
  you know, we've had some really great times here at Cumberland.
• 12:00
  Have had some stressful times here at Cumberland.
• 12:03
  You know.
• 12:03
  Certainly have.
• 12:05
  But, this new opportunity, I think is going to be great for me,
• 12:09
  not only as a national, but as,
• 12:13
  as a Cumberland Heights employee.
• 12:15
  Because part of the reason why I'm doing Hazelden Betty Ford
• 12:18
  is to enlarge my scope of practice, because right now, my scope is addiction.
• 12:24
  And, once I get my master's degree, you know, once I pass the NCA
• 12:28
  and get my LPC and then my image speed, that opens the whole door
• 12:32
  to other practices and, you know, my skill set changes.
• 12:37
  I my, my long term goal is to help more people.
• 12:41
  But my I think my even longer term goal is to get my foot in the door,
• 12:48
  to help other counselors help more.
• 12:51
  So right now I'm learning more about the IOP side within Cumberland Heights.
• 12:55
  So that's going to, I think kind of help me see the big picture and how it works.
• 12:59
  I know what it's like to send people, right, residential to SC or residents
• 13:02
  to IOP, but now, okay, on the receiving end of IOP,
• 13:06
  you know, working with the different,
• 13:09
  you know, they're coming in already established
• 13:11
  or they should be already established.
• 13:13
  As far as detox wise, they may, you know, usually come through residential.
• 13:16
  They've had 30 days of stabilization.
• 13:17
  Period. Right. I'm not right.
• 13:20
  You know, and it's not foreign to me because I did work it out,
• 13:23
  right, you know,
• 13:25
  so I'm excited for this opportunity that the hours fit my schedule more.
• 13:29
  It's closer to. Home. Oh, man.
• 13:31
  It's a lot to be with family.
• 13:32
  How much closer?
• 13:33
  Like significant.
• 13:35
  Well, 50 miles right now to River road.
• 13:37
  19 miles to.
• 13:38
  Yeah, that's just. So. It's mass.
• 13:41
  Yeah, yeah.
• 13:42
  So, Jason's going to our cool spring.
• 13:46
  Brentwood? Yep.
• 13:47
  IOP location, which is a great location.
• 13:50
  Beautiful location, great office.
• 13:51
  And I think. Is Sarah still in there, too?
• 13:53
  Sarah. Yes. Yes. She's in.
• 13:55
  She's my director and she's right. Next door.
• 13:57
  Perfect. Yeah, yeah. Awesome. Yeah.
• 14:00
  So I think that I love when those opportunities, you know,
• 14:03
  those God moments come in where there's like,
• 14:05
  you know, the need in the organization and it happens to fit the individual's
• 14:10
  goals. Yeah.
• 14:11
  You know, like when we can hit that
• 14:13
  nexus, it's just perfect.
• 14:16
  Yeah.
• 14:18
  And it was kind of a natural question for me to ask because.
• 14:22
  So you've been doing the four and a half years, very patient centered
• 14:27
  firefighting, stabilization
• 14:30
  and how can we remove barriers for engagement.
• 14:36
  And now you're going to be on the other side
• 14:40
  or really the next step of engagement.
• 14:43
  You know, and ideally
• 14:45
  trying to support somebody who might be in your care at the IOP level of care,
• 14:51
  you know, from like two, three, four months. Yes.
• 14:56
  I mean, hopefully we can really, you know,
• 15:01
  help somebody.
• 15:02
  So, so from detox to end of IOP,
• 15:05
  we're talking about four ish months
• 15:09
  of engagement in professional services that are really absolutely needed.
• 15:14
  Yeah.
• 15:14
  And so I'm also excited for you to be a bridge. Yes.
• 15:18
  You know, like,
• 15:21
  we don't know what we don't know.
• 15:25
  And it's a good thing to have cross-pollination
• 15:30
  and fresh ideas and iteration, you know.
• 15:35
  Absolutely.
• 15:36
  So I have no doubt that you're going to get in there and say, you know,
• 15:40
  wait a minute.
• 15:42
  What?
• 15:42
  Let's what if we connected this doc to this one, you know, that type of thing.
• 15:46
  So the missing little things that we
• 15:47
  the nuances that we don't know, who's we don't know.
• 15:50
  Yeah. And Sarah's great. Yeah.
• 15:52
  You know,
• 15:54
  I, I've always just been impressed by her and her presence and her practice.
• 15:58
  And it's just totally natural to.
• 16:00
  She's been in that location for a long. For a while.
• 16:02
  Yeah.
• 16:04
  So what do you what do you think it's going to be next Monday.
• 16:07
  So we're recording this today's Thursday.
• 16:10
  So your last day here I mean.
• 16:13
  At on campus tomorrow.
• 16:14
  Tomorrow. Yeah.
• 16:16
  And we didn't I didn't we scheduled this whenever we did.
• 16:19
  I didn't know that this was all going to.
• 16:22
  So it's kind of an emotional week.
• 16:23
  It's been very emotional. Yeah. Yeah
• 16:27
  there's
• 16:30
  I love it.
• 16:31
  Yeah.
• 16:36
  The growth that I've made here.
• 16:38
  Yeah. Been huge.
• 16:39
  Yeah.
• 16:44
  Fighting.
• 16:44
  You know, we fight for our clients,
• 16:47
  and, you know, we don't we don't treat our clients.
• 16:50
  That's the thing. I was funny. I,
• 16:53
  I was asked to also write my bio for the, for the website today.
• 16:56
  And so I'm like, this is I'm doing everything all at once this week.
• 17:00
  It's terrible. It's also great. Yeah.
• 17:03
  You know, when I went through treatment, I went through a place called Summer
• 17:08
  and it's run,
• 17:09
  it's in Oak Hospital in Newport Beach, California, and it's one of the best ones.
• 17:13
  It was literally it's literally
• 17:16
  Cumberland Heights if it was on the coast.
• 17:19
  I know there's a lot of bad treatment centers out in California,
• 17:22
  but this is like a legit,
• 17:24
  and, when I work here,
• 17:28
  I see the, the heart and I see the care,
• 17:31
  the staff for the clients,
• 17:34
  and I see what they do day out.
• 17:36
  And it's encouraging. It's motivating.
• 17:39
  And it just makes you want to try harder and,
• 17:44
  Yeah. So
• 17:46
  it's going to be,
• 17:48
  you know,
• 17:50
  it's a hard transition, but it's needed because I use the metaphor of, like,
• 17:54
  I've got a I've got a fellowship
• 17:55
  in my office right now, and it's about time for to be planted.
• 17:59
  And right now that I'm that plant, right.
• 18:02
  In order for me to grow more, I need to be on it.
• 18:05
  And that's what this is, and it's all happening.
• 18:07
  And so I see the I see this podcast, this which was scheduled like a month.
• 18:11
  I didn't know this was going to happen tomorrow.
• 18:14
  It just so happened
• 18:15
  I had the IOP meeting yesterday like, oh yeah, every time my recovery has been
• 18:21
  just seamless.
• 18:23
  And so that's why. That quiet surety.
• 18:27
  Yeah, no roadblocks, no fighting.
• 18:30
  And then you just say, okay,
• 18:31
  take me where I'm supposed to be.
• 18:35
  Yeah.
• 18:35
  You know, and allow me to do this work.
• 18:38
  Allow me to do your will separately, but also connected.
• 18:41
  I'm so excited that you're in the Hazelden Betty Ford graduate program.
• 18:46
  Yeah, I think, like, and I'm really proud
• 18:50
  that we have, like, a crew.
• 18:53
  Yes. That's in there. Yeah.
• 18:55
  And in fact, we've gotten feedback from some of our peers,
• 18:59
  from Hazelden Betty Ford leadership, just that,
• 19:02
  you know,
• 19:02
  the crew of Commonwealth Heights staff that are there are some of the best
• 19:06
  students in the program.
• 19:07
  And so we just I take some pride in being like, yeah, absolutely.
• 19:11
  You know, not that there's any sort of competition, but I just know
• 19:15
  that y'all are in there not only impacting competition, but I'm sure.
• 19:20
  But not only that, y'all are
• 19:21
  in there and having your own because because education changed my life.
• 19:25
  Yeah.
• 19:27
  You know, when I went back, I had failed in school.
• 19:30
  I don't know if we never talked about this.
• 19:32
  And I failed in school, and I was a young person in recovery,
• 19:36
  you know, and through my addiction.
• 19:38
  And so I had a lot of shame,
• 19:40
  you know, like restarting, and,
• 19:44
  and it already with the shame of being kind of in recovery.
• 19:48
  So I'm just dealing with all this identity about, like, you know, what it could
• 19:51
  have, should stuff bless, you know,
• 19:56
  God led me into a recovery program in Lubbock, Texas, Texas Tech, God
• 20:01
  like you, into this graduate program connected to Hazelden Betty Ford
• 20:05
  with some of your peers.
• 20:06
  And so I was in a I was in a community, you know, similar to that
• 20:09
  in the sense that I, I was in school with other people that are in recovery.
• 20:13
  And it it taught me a lot about recovery, about how to show up early.
• 20:17
  About how to stay like I never forget like when I showed up to campus,
• 20:21
  I'll tell you this
• 20:23
  when I showed up
• 20:23
  to Texas Tech, you know like doing,
• 20:27
  like orientation.
• 20:29
  Oh yeah. You know, and they like hands.
• 20:30
  You like the obligatory, like, Hanes t shirt, you know, that's like 100% cotton.
• 20:35
  That'll like, cut your skin. Yeah.
• 20:37
  They're like yeah, yeah.
• 20:39
  And they give you like the bag with all the inserts
• 20:41
  and like the Texas Tech pen or whatever.
• 20:43
  And you're in this auditorium and and everybody there.
• 20:46
  I mean, I was so it's such an alcoholic thing.
• 20:49
  You know, I was there with people in recovery.
• 20:51
  But I remember feeling so different.
• 20:54
  You know,
• 20:54
  just still struggling with that identity because I perceived everybody being 18.
• 20:58
  Yeah. You know, and I was 21, by the way.
• 21:01
  So it's not I mean relaxed neck, you know, it wasn't that serious of a
• 21:05
  little harder. But yeah.
• 21:08
  And I remember calling my
• 21:09
  sponsor like the first day of classes because I just had all this evidence
• 21:13
  of failure.
• 21:13
  Yeah.
• 21:14
  And I remember I was like, I have no way.
• 21:16
  And he was, Louis in Texas.
• 21:19
  I was like, I have no idea what to do.
• 21:21
  He was like, what do you mean? And I was like, what do you mean?
• 21:23
  What do I mean? Like, I'm not calling. What do we want?
• 21:26
  Tell me what to do, you know?
• 21:28
  And he said, well,
• 21:30
  why don't you follow the suggestions of recovery and apply them in school?
• 21:34
  And I was like,
• 21:35
  give me this crap. You know?
• 21:38
  And he said, well, look,
• 21:40
  if you show up early,
• 21:43
  stay late, sit close to the front, ask for.
• 21:46
  Help.
• 21:47
  Take notes.
• 21:49
  And at the end they're going to give you this document
• 21:52
  your first day of every class.
• 21:54
  And he's like if you do everything that document says to do
• 21:57
  when it says to do it you'll get straight A's.
• 22:01
  So I it's called the syllabus. You know.
• 22:03
  And that was my experience.
• 22:05
  You know stick close to the front, ask for help and just take advantage of it.
• 22:09
  So I get really that taught me how to be a team member.
• 22:14
  Yeah.
• 22:15
  It taught me how to collaborate, how to have difficult conversations
• 22:19
  with a group mate who might not be pulling their weight, on a project.
• 22:24
  And how how can I address that in a way?
• 22:27
  You know what I mean? It started to.
• 22:29
  Meanwhile, you're learning about therapy.
• 22:33
  You're reading about the etiology or the root of this,
• 22:36
  different types of models and ways of thinking.
• 22:39
  And so I'm excited for you, Jason, because it'll change your life too.
• 22:45
  And God will probably
• 22:47
  take you in a direction that you don't expect.
• 22:51
  You know,
• 22:57
  Yeah.
• 22:57
  Yeah. It already has.
• 22:59
  How long you've been doing like when did you start with them.
• 23:02
  I'm in my second semester right now.
• 23:04
  We got a couple more, a few more weeks.
• 23:06
  Yeah. We're live right now.
• 23:07
  We're doing etiology and ethics.
• 23:09
  So, Good.
• 23:11
  How many people are in the in your kind of cohort.
• 23:15
  It's weird because some are full time, some are part time.
• 23:18
  So it's kind of variable right.
• 23:20
  So some will come in and some will go out. Right.
• 23:23
  But I'm in
• 23:26
  both.
• 23:26
  I'm a part time is two classes.
• 23:29
  And I've got two colleagues that I'm also.
• 23:31
  And we're trying to stay on the stay
• 23:33
  track in classes, so we'll be together next semester as well.
• 23:37
  We'll have a residency after after the summer semester.
• 23:39
  So I think it's a great resource for our field.
• 23:42
  Absolutely.
• 23:43
  You know, like, the way that they make it easy for,
• 23:46
  professionals that are working in treatment centers across the country.
• 23:49
  Can you speak to some of those benefits?
• 23:51
  Yeah.
• 23:52
  Well, first of all, I totally related with the apologies
• 23:56
  to you kind of experience because, I only have a high school diploma.
• 24:00
  Yeah.
• 24:01
  And so for me to go from a
• 24:03
  high school diploma, which I was not an honor student, right?
• 24:07
  I was a I was I was a basketball.
• 24:10
  And so when I went to junior college, community college, I, I always joke there.
• 24:15
  I left with the masters in alcoholism. Yeah.
• 24:17
  So what I learned in junior college. Yeah.
• 24:18
  So I dropped out of that, to go sell yachts for my family and,
• 24:23
  you know, make the make the money, you know, and so at at 44 now
• 24:28
  going to grad school with the bunch of 22, 23, 24 year olds
• 24:33
  fresh out of undergrad, it's intimidating, you know, but
• 24:37
  the good part for me is with my licensure, that got me in the door.
• 24:41
  I have more experience.
• 24:43
  And so, now
• 24:45
  the things that I'm learning are the things that I don't the models that college,
• 24:51
  I, I just started diving into the DSM five TR
• 24:55
  so being able to learn how to diagnose people appropriately,
• 24:59
  it's going to be a total,
• 25:01
  bigger scope of practice.
• 25:03
  I can help I really because of my own mental
• 25:06
  health and trauma obviously substance use I could help those people.
• 25:10
  More specifically who is right now it's kind of a no go zone.
• 25:14
  I can't do harm. So it's gone.
• 25:16
  So something else that'll be exciting to think about, Jason,
• 25:20
  is it'll teach you like a good program like that will teach you how to learn.
• 25:23
  Yeah. For life.
• 25:25
  You know, so I've been out of school for eight years.
• 25:30
  Seven years,
• 25:32
  and, like, think about the world today.
• 25:34
  Seven years.
• 25:35
  You know, like, so much has changed, you know, everything that come on, guys
• 25:39
  is doing now with artificial intelligence, like,
• 25:41
  I didn't go to school for, you know, like that. That was a.
• 25:43
  But school prepares you
• 25:46
  to know how to show up early and how to stay late, how to ask for help.
• 25:50
  And so I just I'm just thrilled for you, man.
• 25:53
  And just also because I know that you all are so
• 25:57
  you and your team,
• 25:59
  you all are so gifted at helping people and and,
• 26:03
  you know, putting your arms around them and loving them
• 26:05
  until they can love themselves, you know, like that's what it's about.
• 26:08
  Yeah.
• 26:10
  In these spaces and.
• 26:13
  Yeah.
• 26:13
  So just, just super, super excited about that process for you.
• 26:19
  Talk about I'm curious
• 26:21
  to shift gears about the new building
• 26:25
  and not to talk about, you know, oh, the paint color.
• 26:28
  I'm not I'm just it was a transition for our community.
• 26:32
  Yeah. Describe that.
• 26:34
  However makes sense to you.
• 26:38
  Or do you mean to set the table about what happened?
• 26:40
  Kind of sure. Yeah, yeah, let's do that.
• 26:43
  So for those that don't work at Room Road every day.
• 26:46
  Yeah.
• 26:48
  We, had.
• 26:52
  We launched a capital campaign a couple years ago to make some
• 26:55
  improvements at our, at our headquarters, at our primary, adult residential site.
• 27:00
  And one of those was our residential spaces.
• 27:04
  You know, we had actually
• 27:07
  the first two
• 27:08
  buildings we ever built, technically,
• 27:11
  were the two cabins that we sought to replace.
• 27:15
  So we're 60 years old this year.
• 27:18
  They were 60 years old.
• 27:19
  And shout out to them like they served us.
• 27:23
  Well, me, I, I stayed in one of those in
• 27:27
  cabin 300.
• 27:30
  Jay, our CEO was a patient in one of those cabins.
• 27:34
  So there's like these two spaces that are like near and dear.
• 27:37
  So as you know, it was like a process, like we had we had community events,
• 27:41
  you know, in those buildings.
• 27:42
  And so but we recognize that,
• 27:44
  you know, it was, it was for to a bathroom like we needed to invest.
• 27:49
  Yeah.
• 27:50
  And our community
• 27:53
  and it added some flexibility in what we could do.
• 27:56
  So that's kind of setting the stage.
• 27:57
  And Jason's team, we we opened kind of part one of that,
• 28:03
  which is approximately a 20,000 square foot,
• 28:08
  40 bed
• 28:10
  building on our campus, like net new
• 28:13
  with the clinical, multi-use and community space connected to it.
• 28:17
  Whereas before we were kind of separated and different buildings.
• 28:21
  And so Jason was and is one of the primary counselors
• 28:26
  in that building and shifting, you know,
• 28:29
  from one day to the next, you know, taking luggage,
• 28:33
  patients, moving, hanging pictures and getting logged
• 28:37
  into the new computer, like from where you were before and crime.
• 28:40
  Yeah, I was in the cabana.
• 28:42
  Was a shift. Yeah.
• 28:44
  So just talk about that.
• 28:45
  Yeah. It's funny, like
• 28:48
  in this last week, just thinking of all the different experiences.
• 28:53
  You know, I was in the cabana for the majority of my role here.
• 28:55
  And so,
• 28:57
  when I think of my clients, that's where they most, you know,
• 29:01
  we've been in the new building now.
• 29:02
  It's been like.
• 29:03
  Three months. Three years and say three months.
• 29:05
  Yeah, it's still, you know, so I it's
• 29:11
  it's weird.
• 29:15
  I don't know if it's because I'm leaving, but it's like,
• 29:17
  I kind of minimize how much work that I just done in that space.
• 29:21
  You know,
• 29:22
  because I spent so much time in the cabana, and now I'm leaving,
• 29:25
  you know,
• 29:26
  but it is a beautiful building.
• 29:29
  I mean, the the rooms that you guys built for the clients,
• 29:34
  they have more space.
• 29:36
  Before, like when I.
• 29:37
  When I think of
• 29:39
  three and 400, you know, you'd have two to room and there would be no privacy.
• 29:44
  You bed over here and over here.
• 29:46
  And then the Jack and Jill bathroom with the other room with those beds, you know,
• 29:50
  and this one, they actually have their own stall and their own shower.
• 29:56
  The the accommodations are just, Yeah.
• 30:00
  It gives them,
• 30:02
  more space to do their own studying.
• 30:03
  They have the little nooks.
• 30:05
  Our offices are now much more suitable for groups,
• 30:10
  offices before, you know, a 60 year old building.
• 30:13
  I don't think they're really ever plan on having that many patients
• 30:16
  in those offices.
• 30:17
  Whereas now you can get eight patients in an office
• 30:20
  and not feel so,
• 30:23
  and, yeah.
• 30:28
  Yeah, it's it was well done.
• 30:30
  How do you think the patients took it?
• 30:32
  I've gotten mixed results.
• 30:34
  I've gotten mixed. Results.
• 30:35
  Is that I find it really interesting to hear about.
• 30:39
  Yeah, I think I think initially in the first
• 30:45
  two months, I think we got a lot of kickback
• 30:48
  because the patients that were in that period of two months
• 30:51
  were familiar with the cabins.
• 30:53
  So when they moved from the cabins to this,
• 30:57
  cult, kind of more like a hotel feel, right?
• 30:59
  Sure.
• 31:00
  Because it's very, you know, it's it's.
• 31:03
  Years newer. Yeah.
• 31:04
  It's like you know, there's no way to escape.
• 31:07
  There's a difference. And. Yeah. Yeah.
• 31:09
  So, you know, some some of the people that are expecting the cabin feel
• 31:15
  they go, whereas people that don't know any different.
• 31:17
  I think it's amazing. It's beautiful.
• 31:20
  They're proud to be. They don't want to be anywhere else.
• 31:21
  Right. You know. So take them down to the cabin.
• 31:23
  They say wait a minute.
• 31:24
  Yeah. Right.
• 31:25
  Right. Yeah. Do you want this or do you want that?
• 31:26
  I want that, right.
• 31:27
  You know, I want the newest model.
• 31:29
  Sure. Everybody sure? Yeah, sure.
• 31:32
  Yeah, yeah. It's a shift for the campus, too.
• 31:34
  You know, like in terms of staffing and where people are.
• 31:37
  And yes, I really like that model, though,
• 31:41
  and but I don't do the groups here right.
• 31:43
  I like that y'all are in one zone
• 31:48
  that you have what you need in that area, especially
• 31:51
  when the other phase two, the women's is built.
• 31:55
  And then the men are going to shift
• 31:58
  hazel and hazel.
• 31:59
  And so that whole quad.
• 32:02
  Will become
• 32:04
  especially with all that you think about what the
• 32:07
  the additional clinical admin space that Hazel provides.
• 32:11
  So like Vivian and her workflow and her team like
• 32:16
  it'll just be more seamless to do what needs to be done.
• 32:21
  And then oh let's access the FLC or let's assess Craig or whatever.
• 32:25
  And also for the women.
• 32:27
  Yeah. You know to get that, updated feel.
• 32:29
  Although Hazel was 2000.
• 32:34
  Yeah. It's newer.
• 32:36
  Oh I wouldn't
• 32:39
  2005 maybe 2007 I don't I don't remember I'll top my head.
• 32:43
  So yeah, that was definitely not something we expected to
• 32:47
  the separation
• 32:47
  of the staff because we were all in training before.
• 32:50
  And so when half of us moved down there,
• 32:53
  we weren't we, we weren't anticipating the detach.
• 32:57
  You know so that's been a little bit of a shift.
• 32:59
  But I, I mean word isn't like on the street new buildings are going to have
• 33:04
  the women's is going to have downstairs clinical upstairs patients.
• 33:08
  I think that will fit the clinicians and the patients better.
• 33:13
  Because that might provide them more of that, that one building feel,
• 33:16
  you know, as opposed to like over here over here
• 33:20
  and then also having a clinician together because,
• 33:23
  you know.
• 33:24
  Going from Collins side to your side.
• 33:27
  Yeah, it's kind of a walk.
• 33:28
  It is. Yeah.
• 33:29
  And it's we felt we feel disconnected. Right.
• 33:31
  You know. Right.
• 33:32
  So I'm glad I was happy to hear that. That was
• 33:35
  well, part of that too is a footprint.
• 33:37
  Yeah.
• 33:38
  You know, because it's like, well and the grade.
• 33:41
  Yeah.
• 33:41
  You know, so there's.
• 33:42
  A lot of work for that, that 800 building for sure.
• 33:44
  Yeah. The house.
• 33:46
  But well I mean like the footprint of the new one.
• 33:49
  Oh yeah. Okay. Yeah.
• 33:50
  Because it's not as, I mean, you know, it's in between two existing
• 33:54
  buildings, whereas the other ones like wide open kind of field.
• 33:57
  Yeah.
• 33:58
  And so I too am excited.
• 34:02
  You know, because that that clinical
• 34:04
  not to get so like nerdy in these details but like that clinical space downstairs
• 34:08
  you know will also be like if it's after hours and clinical
• 34:13
  isn't here for whatever reason, you know, that whole space can be closed off.
• 34:17
  Right. And then but the community space is still accessible.
• 34:20
  Yeah. It's really an L.
• 34:22
  Yeah. But the same finishes
• 34:25
  throughout
• 34:26
  nice to make it really just, you know,
• 34:29
  a great improvement for the women
• 34:32
  as well, you know. So.
• 34:35
  Okay.
• 34:37
  Something else I'm curious about.
• 34:38
  And I ask tons of people
• 34:42
  how the patients changed.
• 34:44
  How was the presentation changed over your five years here?
• 34:48
  I'd be really interested to hear your perspective.
• 34:50
  So it's funny you ask that because I have two different kinds of that.
• 34:53
  Okay. Times have changed.
• 34:56
  So is the approach.
• 34:59
  I think we're seeing a lot more mental health
• 35:02
  awareness.
• 35:03
  Are we seeing more mental health or are we measuring better.
• 35:05
  Measuring better. Yeah. Oh yeah.
• 35:07
  No I because I don't know the answer I think. We're measuring. Better.
• 35:09
  Do you think so. Yeah.
• 35:10
  Like you think we're recognizing it better.
• 35:12
  We're talking about it better.
• 35:14
  That's interesting.
• 35:16
  And then I also think
• 35:18
  that the clinicians approach to come up
• 35:22
  some might say
• 35:24
  on the pendulum of you know old school
• 35:28
  do this or you might die. Right.
• 35:30
  It's pivoted over to the we're going to support you no matter what you guys are.
• 35:36
  You know. So
• 35:38
  I think the part
• 35:40
  that I don't ever want to lose, like,
• 35:44
  I'm a pretty black and white counselor, and I have a client that struggling.
• 35:47
  I usually tell them upfront, if I see a red flag for you, I'm going to tell you
• 35:51
  you might not like that, but it's my duty to let you know of this issue
• 35:56
  and for you to determine whether or not you're going to.
• 35:58
  Because if you leave here and I don't help you identify this problem,
• 36:02
  then I'm feeling,
• 36:04
  you know, I'm gonna give you the autonomy, the beneficence, then I'm listening
• 36:07
  and supporting you with this.
• 36:09
  And it's up to you whether or not you want to do it right.
• 36:11
  They might not do in their first 30 days, but that's not the expectation. But,
• 36:16
  so it's hard because you want to build
• 36:19
  a therapeutic alliance and you want them to have a good experience.
• 36:22
  At the end of the day, we're really trying to save their lives,
• 36:25
  and a lot of them think they know what they need.
• 36:27
  As a professional psych, I think you should work.
• 36:29
  Wasn't okay.
• 36:32
  That's fine.
• 36:32
  Yeah, I remember the bringing up memories.
• 36:35
  The laid back approach. Yeah.
• 36:37
  You know, the is almost like a sponsor approach.
• 36:39
  You know, like, I know a lot of later and I'm a laid back,
• 36:42
  they're accused of being a licensed sponsor.
• 36:45
  Right. You know, and I'm like, that's not the case. We're educated to,
• 36:48
  and then there's, like the
• 36:49
  LPC approach and that's the, you know, the Rogers.
• 36:52
  Yeah.
• 36:53
  You know, that patient centered approach.
• 36:54
  So I think there's a there's a deal I,
• 36:57
  there's a spectrum there we need to find.
• 36:59
  Yeah I did both.
• 37:00
  Yeah. Okay.
• 37:01
  So when I was in Texas it's called an lcdc.
• 37:04
  Okay. Licensed clinical designation.
• 37:07
  Yep. Licensed chemical dependency counselor okay okay.
• 37:09
  Yeah.
• 37:10
  You know a shit which ages that, you know, licensed
• 37:14
  as I was always fascinated by this because
• 37:18
  addiction is considered by some to be the most
• 37:22
  one of the most complicated,
• 37:27
  mental health disorders in existence,
• 37:30
  taking out severe mental illness. So,
• 37:33
  dissociative identity disorder, which you're,
• 37:35
  you know, probably reading about now, multiple personalities like
• 37:39
  I'm, I'm set that aside for a second extreme bipolar one.
• 37:43
  Let's set that aside.
• 37:44
  But but also addiction is very interesting
• 37:47
  because of the phenomenon of choice.
• 37:52
  Yeah.
• 37:54
  So let's hold that in one hand.
• 37:57
  That addiction is one of the more
• 37:59
  complicated mental illnesses to exist.
• 38:02
  Yet in the other hand, it's the only.
• 38:09
  Diagnosis disorder, disease, psychological,
• 38:14
  that you can get a license, a bachelor's level
• 38:17
  license to treat.
• 38:21
  Interesting. Now,
• 38:24
  as a person in recovery, as somebody
• 38:26
  who's gone down the path that you're going down right now,
• 38:30
  you know, you start to uncover a little bit
• 38:31
  more information about like, well, why is that?
• 38:33
  And it's because our field has grown in parallel
• 38:37
  to that of psychology and our understanding of psychology.
• 38:42
  And so when this place was started there was not licenses.
• 38:48
  Right. In the 1960s.
• 38:50
  That's something that came later. Yeah.
• 38:52
  And so as the field grew in its professionalization so too did
• 38:57
  the need to like pragmatically solve the problem of like wait a minute.
• 39:04
  There are people that have
• 39:05
  worked here for a long time making this up.
• 39:09
  That are really skilled.
• 39:12
  They never went to school for it.
• 39:13
  They never read, you know, a laid back manual.
• 39:17
  Right. Or had a super of it.
• 39:18
  But they, they know how to stabilize.
• 39:23
  They know.
• 39:23
  So we need to have an accessible tiered
• 39:28
  approach to those profession to that professional.
• 39:32
  So that didn't happen with depression naturally.
• 39:35
  Right.
• 39:35
  Because we didn't have you know these treatment centers,
• 39:40
  these legacy providers around the country that were started to help alcoholic men.
• 39:45
  You know, we didn't have any of that.
• 39:46
  So, you know,
• 39:47
  so it's it's really fascinating to me to think about how the history invited that.
• 39:51
  And now I think it's strengths, that
• 39:54
  our health care systems have that other disciplines don't have.
• 39:58
  I mean, we have this
• 40:00
  well, we
• 40:01
  we talked about it earlier, like the multidisciplinary,
• 40:05
  you know, diversity is our strengths,
• 40:07
  diversity of experience and posture
• 40:11
  and perspective is one,
• 40:14
  because if you think that you're going to get in recovery and not be challenged
• 40:18
  by God, I'm not like I'm not saying like people
• 40:21
  are going to confront you in a meeting. That's not what I mean.
• 40:23
  But like, life's going to come at you.
• 40:26
  Yeah, for sure.
• 40:27
  And, one of my favorite lines in the basic text is,
• 40:34
  oh, I'm blanking about the,
• 40:37
  everything is subject to revision.
• 40:40
  Especially what we know about the truth.
• 40:44
  Just like, oh, like, oh, I remember, you know, like,
• 40:47
  oh, okay, I'm going to be on this path of, like, Groundhog Day,
• 40:51
  like getting these lessons. So,
• 40:55
  I think that it's important to remember
• 40:58
  how those skills that you're talking about
• 41:02
  are just as valuable
• 41:05
  as the master's level LPC, Rogers, FTE, CBT.
• 41:11
  It's two arrows in the quiver.
• 41:15
  And in my experience we need everybody.
• 41:18
  We need somebody.
• 41:18
  We need people that are not in recovery
• 41:21
  that have a master's degree, that are called to this work.
• 41:23
  We need people that are just laid acts.
• 41:26
  We need people that are don't have any of that.
• 41:29
  Yeah, it might be on the team.
• 41:31
  And then we need people like you, Jason, who have both experiences
• 41:36
  and can be we need all of that.
• 41:39
  Yeah.
• 41:41
  You know, I think that
• 41:42
  sometimes because I remember, I remember
• 41:46
  our late OC staff can have a chip on, you know, a little chip about, like,
• 41:51
  you know.
• 41:54
  Having feelings about, you know, should I do this or should I not.
• 41:57
  Should I get a master's degree, should I not?
• 41:58
  And so, yeah.
• 42:02
  But I think that organizationally, that's how we think about it,
• 42:06
  you know, it's like we need we actually need everybody.
• 42:09
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 42:09
  You know.
• 42:10
  Well, that's where I think I realized because I if it wasn't for common highs,
• 42:15
  I'm it would have grown as much as I have.
• 42:18
  I also wouldn't be using mass.
• 42:23
  Nothing. Oh.
• 42:24
  Yeah.
• 42:24
  Vivian told me she was like, we kind of kicked Jason in the butt.
• 42:30
  You know, I mean, like,
• 42:31
  Tom, tell me about that.
• 42:32
  When did that happen?
• 42:34
  And did you did you find it?
• 42:37
  So it was actually it was another gotcha.
• 42:40
  I was talking to a
• 42:42
  peer that I absolutely love, and she's recently an LPC, MSP as well.
• 42:46
  And we were talking in my office one morning and,
• 42:51
  you know, you get to a certain point with the company where you feel you see it
• 42:55
  and I'm, you know, the.
• 43:00
  The realization of self-empowerment.
• 43:01
  I have to try and be honest with where are my recovery.
• 43:04
  Okay.
• 43:04
  And I was realizing that I was at I was hitting my glass ceiling
• 43:08
  because with the laid back
• 43:11
  couldn't do much more.
• 43:11
  I couldn't do much more.
• 43:12
  Private practice was definitely and probably not.
• 43:15
  Could be like a large set of management opportunities available.
• 43:21
  I'm seeing where the trend is with that,
• 43:23
  with, you know, education and, you know, of course.
• 43:26
  So it's a total door opener. Yeah.
• 43:29
  You know, for good reason.
• 43:31
  So I was looking at I was looking at other career loss.
• 43:34
  I was actually looking at career change. Really. Yeah.
• 43:37
  And I was talking to my coworker and like, what about going back to school?
• 43:40
  I'm like, I have a high school diploma. Yeah.
• 43:43
  And I'm 48. Years old, right?
• 43:45
  Two girls, three and five and a mortgage.
• 43:48
  Like, I don't have the time or the ability to go back to school for.
• 43:52
  It or the energy.
• 43:54
  Yeah, the energy.
• 43:55
  Yeah. Right.
• 43:56
  And, and she's like, man, you would be great.
• 43:59
  She said,
• 43:59
  if with your skill set and your approach, you got you in education, you start.
• 44:04
  I'm like, I just and we
• 44:06
  I've been thinking about this for months and that's how the conversation got.
• 44:10
  And I kid you not, Nick.
• 44:12
  I get back to my desk, I log in and an email
• 44:17
  comes from, one of our previous HR people that says that Hazelden Betty Ford
• 44:22
  gave me on campus in two weeks talking about their graduate program.
• 44:26
  And I and I just didn't think. Really.
• 44:28
  Until I looked at the bottom and it says they have a pathway
• 44:33
  for those that are don't have the undergrad,
• 44:36
  but have the licensure and the experience to admit.
• 44:41
  Shout out to HR for making sure that they put that piece.
• 44:46
  Yes, yes.
• 44:48
  So when you do it, when you post it again, make sure you add that again.
• 44:51
  But I also Hazelden is obviously we love Hazelden.
• 44:55
  Yeah. You know we're I can't.
• 44:59
  We can trace our history straight back to Hazelden.
• 45:00
  Absolutely. Yeah. Minnesota model. Right.
• 45:03
  I will not stop promoting it to my peers.
• 45:05
  Of course, if anybody else needs help, I'm going to give them a shout out to their,
• 45:09
  But it was just another one of those gotcha moments.
• 45:11
  Like, I remember going back to my wife, I, I forwarded the email to my wife saying,
• 45:17
  oh my God,
• 45:19
  shout out.
• 45:20
  And like, I've already signed up.
• 45:24
  And so I was I think it was like three weeks
• 45:26
  from the time the email came to the time, like it was in.
• 45:29
  I went in there, notepad, everything, and,
• 45:32
  and, it was not a seamless thing.
• 45:34
  Oh, man, it's so cool.
• 45:36
  That's so cool.
• 45:38
  Yeah, just hard to say.
• 45:40
  No, wait. This.
• 45:42
  Yeah. This this this.
• 45:44
  This. Yeah.
• 45:45
  And then, like,
• 45:47
  another thing that's recently occurred, that is a combination
• 45:51
  of shout out to, Cumberland, but also to Tennessee.
• 45:56
  Is the,
• 45:59
  we are in, treatment and,
• 46:01
  and I think is who provides the the.
• 46:04
  No. I'm thinking I'm getting the mixed up.
• 46:07
  Titus. Titus.
• 46:08
  I'm sorry.
• 46:10
  They have a scholarship, and,
• 46:12
  I've been approved for it, so as a non first, let's not go fast for,
• 46:17
  you know, eligible students. Go.
• 46:20
  I got the support from the state OAC funded.
• 46:24
  Right.
• 46:24
  So which can program which comes from.
• 46:27
  So we so our, Tennessee alcohol and drug counselor trade organization.
• 46:32
  Tadesse.
• 46:34
  Right received funds from the state which general
• 46:37
  which came from the settlements related to the oxycontin epidemic
• 46:42
  and has decided to distribute a portion of those funds through the school program,
• 46:47
  which puts money in the pockets of people that are going to school to become
• 46:52
  alcohol and drug counselors or any anything in the psychology field broadly.
• 46:57
  Yeah, it's it's,
• 46:59
  I think it's super cool.
• 47:00
  Yeah, I think it's mostly for optics, but it might be for later.
• 47:04
  I'm not sure.
• 47:04
  I'm just another another blessing because the
• 47:07
  the financial part being out of pocket, no scholarships available.
• 47:12
  Huge blessing.
• 47:13
  So I wouldn't say life change.
• 47:15
  I mean it's it's a big deal.
• 47:17
  What's what makes me really happy about that too is like Tennessee
• 47:21
  making it like putting the money
• 47:25
  in the pockets of people,
• 47:27
  like truly changing the trajectory of their life
• 47:30
  and making something accessible that otherwise wasn't.
• 47:33
  Yeah.
• 47:33
  You know, and education being one of those is huge.
• 47:37
  Yeah.
• 47:38
  I mean, I don't know what the tuition is.
• 47:40
  You don't have to tell me yet, but it's not nothing.
• 47:42
  Oh yeah. Yeah.
• 47:43
  You know, so that's so great man.
• 47:47
  And the amazing part is, is because,
• 47:49
  you know, I'm basically skipping my undergrad and paying for it.
• 47:52
  Yeah.
• 47:53
  So the tuition rate is very reasonable when you really look at it.
• 47:57
  Yeah. That's a good way to think about it.
• 47:59
  You know you're kind of getting it all in a little bit.
• 48:01
  That's that's really the unique thing about what they do is they recognize
• 48:06
  yep that there's this need.
• 48:08
  Right.
• 48:09
  And they, they have figured it out through their own graduate program
• 48:13
  and the Department of Education.
• 48:15
  However it is that they apply for that.
• 48:16
  K Crep approved which is the big part you know.
• 48:19
  Yeah.
• 48:20
  And cheer and, and they solved the problem.
• 48:23
  And now you know you're one of many that are just benefiting from that.
• 48:26
  I'm just so excited for you guys.
• 48:28
  Yeah I'm so excited.
• 48:30
  We're going to miss you man.
• 48:33
  Yeah. It's
• 48:34
  I mean yeah.
• 48:36
  You're still here. Yeah.
• 48:37
  You know, but the River road crew is a unique crew, you know.
• 48:42
  Absolutely.
• 48:42
  Stillwater has their it has a little bit of that
• 48:45
  Academy has a little bit of that IUP has a little bit of that.
• 48:48
  I got to meet the ILP team yesterday.
• 48:49
  How was I want to give them a shout out
• 48:51
  like they are a bunch of amazing, energetic, passionate people.
• 48:55
  Yeah.
• 48:56
  And, Doctor Lewis.
• 48:58
  Yeah. He's awesome.
• 48:59
  I have never met her before. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
• 49:03
  Of course, the shout out to Cindy, who's who's there for her retirement and.
• 49:07
  Retiring after. 19.
• 49:08
  Years. 19 years.
• 49:11
  Yeah, it's weird because, you know, I'd been talking to her about a position,
• 49:16
  and I hope, you know, I could never do because my girls, you know.
• 49:19
  And so it's really interesting that the DMs
• 49:22
  like transfer.
• 49:26
  Yeah.
• 49:26
  Yeah. But, yeah. Looking forward to.
• 49:28
  I'm not you know, I'm not saying goodbye to people here.
• 49:30
  I'm saying see you later.
• 49:31
  Of course.
• 49:32
  You know, I'll be I'm going to come back for some alumni stuff.
• 49:34
  I'll be here for trainings.
• 49:36
  I'm just, in a different spot.
• 49:38
  And, you know, maybe one day I'll come back and wear a bigger
• 49:41
  pair of shoes, which is kind of my, yeah, term approach.
• 49:45
  So we know that God has a plan. Absolutely.
• 49:48
  Yeah. He's been. Very apparent. These things tend to.
• 49:53
  Unfold like you talked about all day today.
• 49:56
  More will be revealed. More
• 49:59
  or do you know okay, last question.
• 50:04
  What do you think our.
• 50:13
  Biggest strength is and
• 50:17
  if you could change one thing about
• 50:20
  this place, this organization,
• 50:25
  what would it be?
• 50:33
  Shame with it.
• 50:37
  But I'm really glad
• 50:37
  you didn't start that question.
• 50:40
  Okay, so
• 50:42
  the number one thing about this place is the legacy and the reputation.
• 50:47
  That's why people fly all over.
• 50:50
  We have a history
• 50:53
  with the same reason why people go to Hazelden Betty Ford.
• 50:56
  You know, when I got the job in California, I told,
• 51:00
  a text that I was leaving, I was getting a new job, and I.
• 51:04
  Tomorrow I was working.
• 51:06
  How did you get a job?
• 51:08
  There were me.
• 51:09
  Got a reputation.
• 51:10
  Because of what? What what? It's done.
• 51:17
  So I would say that's probably
• 51:20
  the answer. Your first question.
• 51:21
  Okay.
• 51:21
  The second one, what I would change for,
• 51:30
  We can delete it too later if you want to, so.
• 51:32
  Don't know. Fear.
• 51:33
  Let it rip.
• 51:35
  Yeah, I,
• 51:36
  I would keep some of the old school values morals.
• 51:39
  I would definitely try and focus a lot on,
• 51:42
  you know, the first 30 days on residential campus,
• 51:45
  you're not going to get a whole lot from a mental health worker.
• 51:50
  And I think that,
• 51:52
  comparing when I first started
• 51:56
  to now, I think the approach of Sears
• 52:00
  and of counselors has changed.
• 52:04
  Some for the better, but some for the worst.
• 52:07
  You know, I think that,
• 52:10
  I don't, I don't I don't want to see Cameron Heights mimic anybody else
• 52:14
  because Cameron Heights only has something that nobody else has done.
• 52:17
  And I know that there's a lot of appealing boutiques.
• 52:20
  Let them be boutiques.
• 52:22
  Let them. Let them do their thing.
• 52:24
  But I think we try a little bit too hard to be like that.
• 52:28
  And that's not that's not in, keep the blood the way it is
• 52:32
  and successful for 60.
• 52:34
  You know,
• 52:36
  one easy thing I could do for tablets,
• 52:41
  bigger problem.
• 52:43
  You know,
• 52:45
  Those IT guys.
• 52:47
  I love it. They save our butts.
• 52:49
  But I'm giving myself a hard time.
• 52:53
  Well, I apologize, I was your call.
• 52:55
  No no no no no, none. Nothing is my call.
• 52:58
  It's our call.
• 52:59
  I think the,
• 53:03
  There is some validity and truth to what you're talking about.
• 53:06
  There is some awareness and discussion.
• 53:09
  Look.
• 53:12
  I'm an alumnus.
• 53:13
  Yeah.
• 53:14
  And a person in recovery.
• 53:15
  That doesn't mean that I care more or less than you.
• 53:20
  But there is discussion.
• 53:24
  That I'm happy exists,
• 53:26
  which is how do we balance
• 53:31
  our tradition?
• 53:34
  The wisdom that comes with experience.
• 53:39
  With change.
• 53:40
  Yeah.
• 53:41
  And growth.
• 53:45
  I mean in some ways it's
• 53:47
  how do we as individuals practice
• 53:51
  the program that we preach.
• 53:55
  How do we inject those values and those principles
• 53:58
  into the organization in a way for it to remain healthy?
• 54:01
  I mean, anytime you get a group of people together, let alone majority of us
• 54:06
  being alcoholics and addicts, you're going to have a little bit of drama,
• 54:10
  you're going to have a little bit of conflict.
• 54:13
  But by and large, I think this is a very healthy organization.
• 54:17
  Oh, yeah.
• 54:18
  And, and.
• 54:23
  I, based on my experience here as a team member,
• 54:30
  I think that.
• 54:33
  Those discussions and conversations are ongoing
• 54:36
  and I know are close to the hearts of all of our team members,
• 54:40
  which is just, hey, how do we continue to balance, you know,
• 54:43
  and I don't think we'll ever lose that balance,
• 54:45
  I guess, is what I'm trying to say.
• 54:47
  I think it's the same thing is the approach
• 54:48
  is that that we have to evolve, like with the mental health part.
• 54:52
  Yeah, of course, but I don't think we need to evolve as much as like this.
• 54:56
  Who we were 60 years ago would be shocking and likely scary
• 55:01
  for a staff member, just like it would be 70s to 90s.
• 55:06
  You know, like,
• 55:08
  interestingly enough, you know, like one of one of our teams down here
• 55:11
  rewriting and updating the history book.
• 55:13
  And so I've been like,
• 55:15
  and I don't recommend that project.
• 55:18
  Because it's a big responsibility, you know, to try to get it right.
• 55:22
  Yeah.
• 55:23
  To try to protect not so much the legacy of the or the legacy of the people.
• 55:28
  Yeah.
• 55:29
  That gave so much.
• 55:32
  And how do we make sure that we protect those stories, whether it's the person,
• 55:36
  one of the people that founded the family program and gave us our gate.
• 55:41
  And her will, whether that's the person
• 55:44
  that gave us our logo in the, chapel bell.
• 55:48
  That was over 100 years old when it was installed on campus
• 55:53
  25 years ago.
• 55:57
  And I, I'm just with you.
• 56:01
  I love that part of us.
• 56:04
  At the same time, how does come on, how to make sure
• 56:06
  that we don't become legends in our own mind?
• 56:09
  Yeah, yeah, that's a little dangerous. Yeah.
• 56:12
  So I and I think.
• 56:14
  But we need your help to do that.
• 56:15
  Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Well, I'm.
• 56:17
  I appreciate you asked me that question because I think ultimately part of that
• 56:20
  keeping that DNA is, is
• 56:23
  keeping the management like
• 56:26
  I think involving
• 56:28
  counselors and CIA might be.
• 56:31
  Yeah.
• 56:31
  Because there's, there's blinds but everybody's point.
• 56:33
  Yeah, totally. You know,
• 56:36
  but sometimes some decisions are made and it's like
• 56:40
  we only have an opportunity to let them know what
• 56:42
  that problem might call, like the cogs in the wheel, you know what I mean?
• 56:45
  So, yeah.
• 56:47
  And you know what?
• 56:48
  I it's funny because when I, when I think of the problems
• 56:51
  that come right has,
• 56:54
  I can't help but remind myself all the good.
• 56:57
  Yeah. This place does.
• 56:59
  And there's problems in every treatment center, you know?
• 57:02
  So I say that all the time, like, hey,
• 57:06
  if every patient is doing every human being
• 57:10
  that's coming here to try to change
• 57:13
  is following every policy.
• 57:15
  And behaving perfectly.
• 57:17
  Something's wrong.
• 57:19
  Check the water.
• 57:19
  Yeah. You know, like we should expect.
• 57:24
  We should
• 57:25
  you know, we should expect things not to go
• 57:27
  according to plan or people to not know or
• 57:32
  I mean Jason, like I have trouble
• 57:36
  sometimes not losing patients
• 57:40
  because I got a flat tire at a really inconvenient time.
• 57:43
  So, like, it's ironic sometimes that I.
• 57:45
  Oh, that's something else we should battle against
• 57:48
  is like how we can come down hard on I can't believe you know.
• 57:51
  You know, they're doing it and it's like, yeah.
• 57:54
  And last week, you know, they were shooting heroin.
• 57:56
  You know, like, maybe we should reframe,
• 58:00
  you know, a little bit of how we're thinking about that.
• 58:03
  Look. Yeah. Good luck.
• 58:05
  Thank you.
• 58:06
  Right I think I'm so I'm so pumped that we got to have this conversation.
• 58:10
  I'm to thank you for.
• 58:11
  The right time.
• 58:12
  Yeah.
• 58:13
  You know, and good luck to you.
• 58:14
  And, you know, we talk and and all that.
• 58:16
  But just so, so grateful for your time on this day.
• 58:19
  Yeah. I'm also I want to say that,
• 58:23
  you know, as a staff member, I really appreciate
• 58:26
  because I to observe people, and I've seen you on campus
• 58:31
  seeing you around, and I've seen you in, the meetings. And,
• 58:35
  I'm very hopeful.
• 58:36
  With what moving forward our lives and especially, like, you're all cool, man.
• 58:40
  Thank you.
• 58:40
  So I feel I feel like we do have,
• 58:43
  I think Cumberland Heights have a good future ahead of itself.
• 58:45
  That's kind of, And, if I thought otherwise, I wouldn't be saying that.
• 58:49
  Yeah, well, thanks, man.
• 58:50
  So thank you for letting me meet you and talk to you and.
• 58:53
  Yeah, you know. Yeah. Likewise.
• 58:55
  Thanks for listening.
• 58:57
  Don't forget to, like, follow or share. We appreciate you all.
• 58:59
  See you next time.