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Business Owner: Benny Bowman Reminds Owners That You’re Not Running This Forever—Now What? · Budget Your Business

• 0:00
  Scott: Today, I'm joined by Benny Bowman of Iron Gate Capital Advisors to talk about his role, not what he's doing today, but what he did previously as a business owner and as a president of Worth Higgins.
• 0:14
  Scott: Hello, Benny.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: How are you doing?
• 0:16
  Scott: I'm good.
• 0:17
  Scott: Thanks for joining me today.
• 0:19
  Scott: So, Benny, I I know you're you're at Iron Gate today, but what I'd like to start at was you you had a career at Worth Higgins where you worked your way into the president role.
• 0:31
  Scott: So I'd like to kind of understand, just give us a little background around your journey to that position at Worth Higgins.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I started in the printing industry at a very early age at an entry-level position at a small printing company and worked my way through that company, learned the business.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: The business owner at the time said that if I learned the business, he'd give me a chance in sales.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so I made it to sales and I learned how to sell.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I came up with the sales manager at the time, uh, a great concept for selling.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: We had it basically a seven-step process, and it was very effective, and it was selling on the process, not on your personality.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's some salespeople out there that can just sell just strictly off their personality.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: They have a gift of gap, but this process would enhance someone like that, but it would also help any person, no matter what type of personality style they were.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: So it was very effective.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: I became recognized locally as someone that was a good competitor.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so Worth Higgins asked me to become the sales manager there when the company was at about 6 million in annual sales with about 45 employees.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: And so I implemented our the strategy and the process that I had been working myself for years, and we grew fairly rapidly as a team.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I eventually from that success moved into the chief operating officer role because I had the background of manufacturing behind me prior to going into sales, and so it it kind of made a good bridge between sales and production, which sometimes can be um adversaries in a business.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: And so we continued to grow and evolve and eventually made it into president of the company and pretty much did all that I could do in the business and was looking for uh uh a reason to reinvent myself.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: So at about 25 years in at Worth Higgins and growing from 6 million to 36 million in annual sales, uh we we, my wife and I, decided that it was okay for me to try something else.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's what I did.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: But it was a wonderful experience um working at Worth Higgins.
• 2:58
  Scott: And Benny, that that's a that's I I love the story where you know you started in printing and you ended up in the president role.
• 3:06
  Scott: As the president of the organization, what like like what kind of advice would you give maybe existing um business owners or or or leaders in the business where they see somebody that was Benny 20-ish or 15 years ago, where they're thinking about this individual could eventually step into this role.
• 3:32
  Scott: Since you came up from that perspective, I'd be interested to hear what you had to say about that that specific process of stepping into the president role and maybe how others that are in that role could look at that from with other people.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, that's a great question.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, so um to even consider uh leaving Worth Higgins, um, I had to have a succession plan already in my mind.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: And so um we had not just one, but three uh leaders within the company that could uh successfully continue the business.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: And but to your point, uh how do you find that person?
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: You know, in some cases you might not have that person, um, you might have good worker bees, but not good leadership.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so then maybe you have to look outside of the business for that person.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but in the case, I guess in my case, uh when I look back on it, um, this is a great question because I hadn't really thought about it this way, but uh I was always asking questions.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_01: I was always asking why couldn't we to the current president?
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: Why can't we do this?
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: Why can't we do that?
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: And to the point sometimes it probably got on his nerves, you know, because I am persistently asking, you know, why can't we do this when you know we've got a lot going on already?
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: You know, why do I want more change?
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: But I guess what I would say in hindsight is that's the type of person you're looking for to take over in your succession plan is someone that is that you have to put the reins on as opposed to crack the whip on.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: You want somebody that is pushing because really that's one of the most important things a president or a CEO or a business owner can do.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: I'd say, you know, sometimes don't think out, don't get caught inside the box.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: Constantly think outside the box.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because you can get comfortable, you can get in a place where you you understand everything and you want it uh to go smoothly, and so you want to keep it within those boundaries that you know.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: And that's great for the business to make sure that your business is running that way day to day, but your mindset should be out of that box, constantly pushing.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: And so if you have somebody that's showing great leadership skills, someone that's somebody that other employees respect that keeps a balance between taking their job seriously, but at the same time having fun within the job, all of those things I think make a great leader and they make someone that could be a good person to be in your succession plan.
• 6:29
  Scott: Yeah, I I can see where basically what you're saying, you really don't want to force someone in that role, right?
• 6:35
  Scott: You you want to find somebody that that is interested in it.
• 6:39
  Scott: And I'm assuming you were interested in it and then in moving in on that role, and as you moved out, you you you mentioned you you you talked to a few people.
• 6:47
  Scott: Do you have any lessons learned around the actual transitioning in and then maybe out of that position?
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: So um I think again, knowing what just like anything else, it all starts with a plan.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: What is your and that plan in any circumstance?
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: For a business owner that wants to wants to have a successful succession, they need to begin with the end in mind.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: What does the end look like?
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: So for somebody today, that looks like I'm getting out this year.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: For somebody else, I'm gonna work until I die.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and everything in between.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so knowing that is your vision, beginning with that end in mind, no matter what it is, there's no right or wrong.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: But then planning towards that.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: What does that look like and how does that get you?
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: If I've got to get out this year, I want to get out this year, then what does that look like?
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: And are you ready to do it?
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: And then sometimes realistically, you're not.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: And so that vision might need to be extended to do it effectively.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: So it's more about beginning with the end in mind and then basically knowing what that end looks like.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: What is you what do you want for your legacy at this company?
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: Because all jokes aside, whether you work another year or you work until you uh leave this earth, you will leave this job.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: You will leave this company.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so planning for it and doing it in a way that makes you successful after that transition, I think is really important.
• 8:25
  Scott: Benny, I I like that approach, and I I can see how that's valuable in planning ahead.
• 8:31
  Scott: Otherwise, you're gonna be surprised, right?
• 8:33
  Scott: Like nobody likes to be very few people like surprises in a business unless it's really positive.
• 8:38
  Scott: I'm curious how much of that was related, or or maybe talk through how your planning process, your planning process as the president of the business for on the business side, not necessarily for the for the succession planning, but just specifically on the business side.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so if you think about it, we used budgeting a lot.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_01: The plan kind of was around the budget.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, what what does it look like?
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: Because really, uh even if we wanted to diversify into another industry or another, even if we just wanted to add a piece of equipment, add an employee, that cost needs to be built into the budget.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: So whatever the plan is, you know, really need to look at the numbers to see if it makes sense at that time.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: If not, then when when can you get to that place where that makes sense?
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: So planning is the key.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: Uh the foundation of that to me is always the numbers.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you're you're in it to, you know, you're in it to be profitable, unless you're a nonprofit.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: But if you're in it and you own the business, you're in it to be profitable.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: And profitable sometimes doesn't always mean investing specifically in your business.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: It can mean diversifying, it can mean all of those things.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: But that's also where you can see leadership skills is when you know you definitely, or in my opinion, again, there's no right or wrong.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: People are successful in lots of different ways, but in my opinion, you don't want to create a budget and then hand it off to the executives that then hand it off to the middle managers that then hand it off to the employees.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: You want to create a plan that everyone has some ownership in, all the way down to the employees.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so you in that doing that process, you start to see how employees react, how your managers react, and therein lies the opportunity to see if they have the potential to move up to replace you when you see how they react and how seriously seriously they take the business and understanding that we're in business to be successful.
• 10:54
  Scott: Benny, I'm gonna push a little bit harder on that note because you talked about don't just create it at the top and then push it down.
• 11:02
  Scott: So maybe you could share with us who all did you involve in the budgeting process?
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so for me personally as president, and just to clarify for those out there listening that are business owners, I was president of an ESOP, which is an employee stock ownership program.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: So I had an I sat on the the committee that oversaw the ESO.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but the the the theory, the point that I just want to point that out, but the the process is, I think, exactly the same as if I treated it as if it was my own business.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so the people that um were involved in a planning process that worked directly with me were the chief operating officer.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: For some companies, it might be the production manager, but the person that's over operations day-to-day, whatever that is, if you provide a product or service, that person is who I worked with.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: And then I also worked with our CFO.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: That could be your controller, but I'm working with that person directly and with the VP of sales.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm working with them directly, then they are challenged to then work with those middle managers that work for them to come up with a plan.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: And then more often than not, those middle managers are consulting with employees on the floor to make the right decision for their department or their specialty within the business.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a trickle-down effect that then kind of gives some ideas that I, sitting at the top, would not always see in the day-to-day on the on the shop floor.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think it's important to get those ideas in, but then bringing it all together, knowing for each of those three people that that answered directly to me, seeing if they understood the objective when they left the meeting, the original budget meeting, and did they come back with that information so that each of the three of them information kind of came together and fit neatly for our overall budgeting plan.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: And one thing I'll say is we always started with the top line first.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: We started with our goal for sales over that period of time.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: If we were planning for the year, or if we were planning for three years in the printing industry, it's very hard to plan beyond three years, but we would be planning for a period of time, and we would start with the top line because maybe it's because of my sales background, but nothing happens until something's sold.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so let's start there.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: And what's a realistic expectation for that time frame that you're planning or budgeting for?
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: And from there, you've got essential expenses that you have to cover and figuring out how you can reduce those costs was the first step.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: And then what's left over?
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: And then what are you going to do with what's left over to get the highest return on your time and your capital investment?
• 14:14
  Scott: And Benny, I'm curious about what you shared back.
• 14:19
  Scott: So you put the budget together, you've agreed on it within the leadership team.
• 14:24
  Scott: What all or how much do you share back?
• 14:26
  Scott: And then my my second part of that is did the company being an e-sop?
• 14:31
  Scott: So thanks for sharing that.
• 14:32
  Scott: Did the company being an eSop change what you shared versus maybe if you were an eSOP?
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: That's a great question.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think that probably, but I've seen owners, you know, now that I work with a lot of different owners, there are some owners that keep all the financials close to their best, but there's others that want employees to know what's going on because they feel like if they know what's going on, they're they're better prepared, good or bad, with whatever decisions that are going to be made.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: So for us, because we were ESOP, we shared everything.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, each employee has a stake in it because it's an employee stock ownership program.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so we disclosed everything.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: We would have quarterly meetings with all the employees.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: When we were small enough, we'd do it all in one group.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: And then when we got larger, we would break it into smaller groups.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: And but we would have the day that the VP of sales, the CFO, and the chief operating officer and myself would go from department to department and give a recap.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: Always interesting to know that the grapevine is one of the best communication tools in a business.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: I mean by that I mean if we were to have a meeting, the first meeting with a department, by the week by the time we got to the last department, a lot of the information had already been text to those employees from the employees in the previous meetings.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: So, and the reason I know that was that I would always like do a like we had a mission statement, and I would get the employees to say the mission statement or the quality statement, and they'd get a gift card.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so at the first meeting, maybe no one knows the quality statement, but by the last meeting, you can best believe they're collecting the the gift card because they've been text by a friend in the other department and says, go memorize the quality policy.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: And um, so anyway, it's just it was a it was a great way to get the message out, but also just know that your employees talk.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: I guess that's my point.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: So if you tell one employee, odds are a lot, if not all, the employees are gonna eventually find out.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: So holding close to your vest, I'm not saying is wrong.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just saying that for us, we shared everything and we were pr pretty successful in doing so.
• 17:01
  Scott: I I I agree with you, Benny, that trying to keep secrets within a business is difficult.
• 17:06
  Scott: To your point, you tell one person and you tell everybody, which it can be a positive and a negative.
• 17:11
  Scott: What what was the hardest aspect of the business to budget for you?
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's a great question, too.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: I I don't know if uh if there was one particular thing.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: It was more about for us, the printing industry is a mature industry, that's a polite way to say it.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: And because it's mature, it has been commoditized, and so the margins are very thin.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: And so the um the decision on what to do with any profit is a critical one.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: How do you get the highest return on the investment?
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because you're trying to improve that margin when it's very difficult to do so.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: And so sometimes it's obvious.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes it's it's obvious.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like one time we we uh this business that was very labor intensive on the finishing side, and in the beginning, we had hand workers doing that finishing.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: But as that business grew, we did some research and found an actual piece of equipment that could automate that finishing process.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: It was not an inexpensive piece of equipment, but when you did the math, you know, having 15 hand workers doing something versus one piece of equipment with one operator, the ROI, was a no-brainer.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: And it paid for itself in months, not in years.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: But then other times it's not as easy to make that decision as to how to make the highest return on investment.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so you might have two departments that have brought up great ideas or recommendations for investing some of that capital, and you you have to make a decision which one is better.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes it's not always, it should be dollars and cents, but sometimes it's not.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: If one department has received a lot of attention and you continue to ignore the other one, but you then say, Okay, we're gonna we're gonna invest in this department.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: If you do it in the right way and you do it with the right option, whether it's including, you know, bringing a new person on or bringing in a new piece of equipment or a new software technology, if you do it in the right way, it can be a real morale boost.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, I would like to say that those things don't come into play.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's just dollars and cents.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: But if I'm honest, I would say you've got to you've got to think about the human element and what return you're gonna get for that investment in that regard as well.
• 19:44
  Scott: Yeah, that that that's a that's a key point, Benny, that it's it's not all even as a CFO, I have to appreciate it's not all about the dollars and cents.
• 19:52
  Scott: You do have to bring in that human element.
• 19:54
  Scott: As you were, if you look back of your time at Worth Higgins, specifically in the president role and and planning and budgeting for the business, what would you do differently today?
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think honestly, I would um we and during my tenure there, we had eight acquisitions.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: Now a couple of them were we acquired businesses that were outside of our our uh skill set, which one of them was very successful.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: The other one is still in Worth Higgins, but it took a lot because it was it was so far out of our skill set.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: It was a long learning process to figure out how to bring it in, how to tie the two together, even though both were in the graphic arts, they're two totally different uh environments.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: And so um I think honestly, uh I would do less acquisitions, especially the acquisitions that were within our skill set.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we were trying to increase revenue share in the marketplace by those acquisitions, but you're buying a company that, you know, at best has margins as good as you and sometimes not as good as you, and so you've got to compensate for that.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: I think one of the things that we did, um I would do more, which was we started an investment account within the company, and a share of our profits went to that investment account that was invested in good quality businesses, but not ownership of those businesses.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: And so that that investment account kind of sat on the sidelines and continued to grow and grow.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I can tell you for a fact that in many years it received a higher return than the business did.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: And so in hindsight, would we have been better to put more money in that version?
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: versus buying that business down the street that had a margin similar to ours?
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: Probably so.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I will also tell you that during COVID, uh that account uh put us in a whole different um realm when it came to strength, uh when the market of printing basically collapsed and other printers all around us were uh either going out of business or were were just getting by.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: We we leaned heavily on that account uh to get us through while not uh not not increasing our debt um and it was a it was a it was a home run you you just put in these you know this what would be to the individual uh the the zeros were more but to the individual you're putting away you know nickels and dimes in this investment account and then you look up one day when you need it and oh my gosh this thing has really grown so giving that element more attention I think could be critical to a business owner as far as having strength in the downtime.
• 23:10
  Scott: Yeah having a reserve account like that to to get you through those events so those map massive events can can be sounds like it saved the business.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah and and really you know it's not about like you know what I see now today in my new role working with business owners is it's sitting in a savings account or it's sitting in a checking account and you're not getting anything for it.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: You don't need it.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: You've got cash flow putting that business that that portion of your assets to work can be the difference maker in a great year compared to a semi-profitable year.
• 23:50
  Scott: And and Benny why don't you go ahead and tell us a little bit you you you've you're not at Worth Higgins anymore but what are you doing today?
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah so I um I moved out of the printing industry thinking I was going to be a consultant in the printing industry and my financial advisor um who was at IronGate asked me what I was going to do I told him he said well he said your skill set could transfer to any industry it doesn't have to be just the printing industry why don't you come to work for us and see if you like the financial industry and you could do some business development for us with your skill set of sales.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I did and I did like it and I have I feel like I have purpose and I feel like very often I can what what what it's really made me feel good about is all the mistakes I made in the past.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: If I can share one with a business owner today to keep them from making the same mistake then it was well worth me making that mistake you know five years ago ten years ago what have you but really what we're looking at I'm looking at it from the business owner side and trying to show them how both in our business and personally the belief in beginning with the end in mind was was what got me to where I had the freedom to leave a business and try something new when others might say they could never afford to do that.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: And that all stemmed from setting up that those funds and I'll I'll lean more towards less myself and more towards a business owner now that diversification of some of the revenue or income and profit that you are receiving into a diversified portfolio both split between non-qualified investment account and your qualified retirement plans.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: But most business owners miss the value that comes with the tax efficiency of investing and utilizing a retirement plan to its fullest.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I I even for one in hindsight could have done a better job.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: But the investment side on the non-qualified side that I think I did pretty well and and I like setting that up you know for a business owner and making them understand or helping them understand that this could be the this is how you leave your legacy this is how you plan for your your family.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: And it also when you can build strength outside of the business and you're not totally reliant on that business it gives you so many more opportunities when you are at that point where you you're ready to leave the business and how you leave and what you do with it.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: It gives you a lot more freedom and strength.
• 26:52
  Scott: Well that may not sound like the most natural progression from president of a printing press to to a advising firm but it sounds like you made a a really natural progression.
• 27:03
  Scott: So thanks for sharing that with us Benny.
• 27:06
  Scott: Sure.
• 27:07
  Scott: Now I I like to wrap up all of our shows with one to three immediate takeaways that our listeners can literally put into action as they turn off the show.
• 27:17
  Scott: You've thrown quite a few out there feel free to go back to your president you know your your your president days or even what you're doing now but what what takeaways would you have for listeners?
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah so again I I will re-emphasize what we said a little bit earlier or what I said a little bit earlier which is you know start with the sales goal first figure out what a realistic don't don't you know think you know unrealistic think realistic.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know if it goes beyond that great but what's a realistic sales goal and working around that goal nothing happens until something's sold and I know for some business owners the production is where their expertise lies and sales is sometimes what's called a necessary evil but it's not and embracing that and recognizing that I think is a key to successful business ownership is to start with that sales goal.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_01: And then being aware again not staying in the box getting outside of the box keeping everybody in the box on a day to day but thinking outside of that box constantly is is a key for business owners.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_01: I may be being redundant right now but I I just believe in it wholeheartedly that you've got to be thinking about next steps.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_01: And then you know I I would say and this is probably cliche but I believe in it again wholeheartedly is you know uh and give yourself a break.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_01: I mean don't uh don't let it overwhelm you um and and just take it into context laugh at laugh at yourself sometimes and actually it doesn't hurt to do it in front of other people if it if the situation allows it.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_01: Let people see that you're human as a business owner I think is a good thing.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: There are times when you have to you know you have to take the the helm and say this is what we're going to do and put the serious face on but there's other times when you need to realize you know life is short.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's just as important not only for the business but for the own personal health and success for the long run.
• 29:39
  Scott: Yeah that that that last point Benny kind of circles back to your what you said earlier is you're not going to have this job forever, right?
• 29:46
  Scott: Right or the raw forever.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 29:50
  Scott: Well Benny could you could you share a favorite podcast or book recommendation for us?
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah so one of the best books that I ever way I'll put it is I actually utilized information in it.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't just a good read it's a book called Traction by Gino Hickman I mean Geno Wickman I'm sorry but Gino's dad's name was Floyd Wickman and when I was a very young salesperson just learning the business Floyd Wickman had a great series of training that I listened to on a regular basis and his son Gino now is using some of that practical common language that anybody can understand but are powerful and effective thoughts in this book called Traction and I would highly recommend it.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_01: And then I'm also reading a book right now by a gentleman named Scott O'Neill that says Be where your feet are which is a term that I had used in the past and was um interested to find out that there was actually a book with the title and so I'm reading it now and and basically in this book so far what I've read is you know don't don't dwell on the past learn from it don't plan for the future but don't worry about it.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_01: Just be the best you can be today in whatever it is that you're doing right now today that is part of the plan for going forward use the experiences you've had in the past to do it the best you can today but be where your feet are and just work hard at what you're doing today.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's what can make you the most successful this has been great.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for those as well where can people find out more about you online so they can go to iron gate capital dot com that's our website you can see meet the team and you'll find my information there and uh would look would love the opportunity to help anybody with any questions that in my experience could maybe they could benefit from.
• 31:51
  Scott: Perfect and thank thanks for joining up for joining me today Benny thanks Scott it's been great