Latest / Becker’s Healthcare Podcast / Katherine Yale, DDS, of PDS Health

Transcript

Katherine Yale, DDS, of PDS Health · Becker’s Healthcare Podcast

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  - There's a small circle of people who truly
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  - Becker's fourteenth annual CEO and CFO roundtable
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  - executive level attendees
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  - around growth, financial sustainability,
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  - workforce strategy, and the leadership questions that don't
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  - Join us November second through the fifth in
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  - Chicago.
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  - For the agenda and event details,
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  - visit beckershospitalreview.com
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  - and click on the events tab in the
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  - upper right.
• 0:51
  - Hello, everyone. This is Ariana Podolatin with the
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  - Becker's Dental Dental and DSO review podcast. I'm
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  - thrilled to be joined today by doctor Catherine
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  - Yale, an early career general dentist practicing with
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  - a large DSO in California.
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  - Doctor Yale, thank you so much for being
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  - here today. It's a pleasure to have you
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  - on our podcast again.
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  - Thank you for having me. It's really great
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  - to be back.
• 1:12
  - A little background.
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  - I actually,
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  - joined Ariana,
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  - back in 2024
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  - when I was still in dental school, and
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  - now life has really changed.
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  - A little bit of background on me. I
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  - graduated dental school in 2025.
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  - I started working for a DSO immediately.
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  - I practice as an associate for about a
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  - year, and I've recently transitioned into partnership in
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  - my office.
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  - Aside from Chairside Dentistry,
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  - I also help support and develop other early
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  - career dentists.
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  - You know, I really like to focus on
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  - creating better alignment between the realities new dentists
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  - experience
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  - and the support organ...
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  - Organizational leaders provide.
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  - So that's kind of what we're gonna be
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  - talking about today.
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  - Yes. Yeah.
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  - So thank you so much for,
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  - introducing yourself there for listeners who weren't already
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  - aware.
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  - So... Yeah. No. You mentioned already, we spoke
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  - last when you were in dental school, to
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  - discuss what new grads were seeking from DSOs
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  - and how DSOs go about,
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  - recruiting and retention.
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  - Now you've been practicing for a little over
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  - a year, and you've noticed a growing
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  - disconnect
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  - between what new graduates experienced during their first
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  - year of practice and what practice owners and
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  - larger organizations
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  - believe that new dentists need.
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  - So
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  - to start off our conversation, when you say,
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  - you've noticed a disconnect,
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  - what does that look like in practice? What
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  - have you seen?
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  - Yeah. I I think it starts with
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  - understanding
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  - what it is dental school provides.
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  - It's funny, this morning I asked my chat
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  - GPT, I said, what is the goal of
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  - dental school?
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  - And it said, at its core, the goal
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  - of dental school is to produce a dentist
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  - who is clinically competent and safe enough to
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  - begin
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  - independent practice.
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  - So when you think about that, dental school
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  - is designed so that each individual who attends
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  - can provide clinically acceptable care. There are tons
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  - of guardrails in place
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  - to ensure that happens,
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  - and it should be that way to ensure
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  - patients are safe.
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  - The care that's being provided is, you know,
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  - up to standard.
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  - But when you think about
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  - clinical practice after dental school, that looks very
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  - different.
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  - So I think the disconnect comes from
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  - what,
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  - you know, a graduating
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  - doc knows versus
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  - what organizations
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  - expect us to know.
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  - You know, we don't learn about fees. What
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  - is the fair market price of a crown?
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  - That's not really the basis of discussion while
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  - you're in school because you're learning how to
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  - prepare a crown.
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  - How do re... Insurance reimbursements work? How do
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  - you file claims?
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  - Case acceptance. Right? That's that's not the focus
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  - of school, but that is the reality after
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  - you exit school.
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  - And so I think that's that's kind of
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  - the place to start of what do we
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  - know
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  - and where do we need to be to
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  - develop the outcomes that we are all looking
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  - for.
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  - Yeah. Yeah. Definitely.
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  - Why is the the first year of practice
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  - such a critical period for
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  - developing diagnostic confidence in dentists?
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  - Yeah. So,
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  - you know, kinda taking it back to school,
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  - every step of your process
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  - is verified by your clinical attending.
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  - But once you're in your first year of
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  - practice, you're placing that external validation
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  - with your own clinical judgment.
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  - So, you know, this this comes from outcomes
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  - and also mentorship.
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  - Because when you're in dental school, you're there
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  - for four years, but truly you're treating patients
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  - for about two of those years.
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  - And most of the time, you know, you
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  - you see a patient and then maybe that
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  - patient is passed down to the next student
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  - in line.
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  - So you never really get to see the
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  - outcomes of your work on a long term
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  - scale.
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  - So you develop your confidence seeing what works
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  - and what doesn't work.
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  - And that's where a really great mentor comes
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  - in as well because,
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  - they put you on the right track.
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  - Now the thing that I find interesting now
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  - talking about that first year and developing that
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  - clinical judgment is use of AI tools. Right?
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  - So when you think of Pearl or Overjet,
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  - those tools that identify
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  - the, you know,
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  - caries for you or bone loss for you,
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  - it really changes the game,
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  - in terms of developing that confidence.
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  - You know, kind of taking it one step
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  - further
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  - As you build that diagnostic confidence,
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  - that's when you have an increase in case
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  - acceptance because your uncertainty shows in the way
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  - that you communicate.
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  - So when you develop confidence in saying, I
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  - know what this is. I know what we
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  - need to do. You're able to communicate that
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  - better to patients.
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  - Kind of last point on this first year,
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  - when it comes to, you know, diagnosis and
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  - treatment planning,
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  - you are going to treatment plan things that
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  - you know how to do well. So when
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  - it comes to having a mentor in place
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  - that first year, this should be someone that
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  - understands your strengths and is building on that
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  - so you feel more confident,
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  - treatment planning procedures that maybe when you stepped
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  - in day one, you didn't feel super confident
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  - with, but you, along the way, are developing
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  - that confidence to continue to do those procedures.
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  - Yeah. That's a good point.
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  - And I know you mentioned there's a few
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  - things that, dental schools don't cover,
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  - for dental students, and that's a a big
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  - reason why
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  - mentorship is very important to graduates.
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  - So what does effective mentorship actually look like
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  - at a busy dental practice?
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  - Yeah. That's that's a that's a good one
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  - because,
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  - mentorship
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  - should be specific to the individual. Right? So,
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  - you know, if you're hiring a new doc,
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  - you should have something that's structured and specific
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  - to them. So something that can be tailored.
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  - What I think would be really helpful
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  - for mentorship in a in a, you know,
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  - busy practice
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  - is creating
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  - time that's specific for
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  - talking about cases,
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  - for asking questions,
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  - for reviewing. It's really easy to have your
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  - day packed with patients, and then, you know,
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  - you're going home at the end of the
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  - day. But spending that extra fifteen, twenty minutes
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  - to sit with your associate in a time
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  - that's, you know, designated to say, hey. This
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  - is when we talk about cases
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  - or we talk about whatever it is you
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  - need or your goals.
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  - Those things, I think, make for really effective
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  - mentorship.
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  - And why can conversations
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  - about production and compensation
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  - sometimes be uncomfortable or confusing for a new
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  - dentist?
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  - So
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  - for
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  - new docs,
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  - compensation,
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  - and those types of conversations, it's the first
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  - time that we are learning that business language
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  - of dentistry.
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  - When you... When I mentioned, you know, the
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  - fair market price of a crown, when you're
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  - in dental school, obviously, the fees are very
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  - low,
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  - to allow access to care and also, you
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  - know, to make it accessible. Right?
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  - But when you're in practice, there is there
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  - is a, you know, standard fee maybe for
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  - the office or something like that.
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  - Those conversations are never had in school.
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  - Similarly,
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  - you know, how much should you make per
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  - year? That's not something that's discussed either.
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  - You know, the structure of payment. Right? Are
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  - you paid on collections or production?
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  - All of those things are not discussed, and
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  - it's really easy to become confused and not
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  - understand,
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  - you know, where you're coming from,
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  - especially collections,
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  - write offs, lab fees. All those
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  - things should be more of a conversation in
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  - school. But also, you know, as new grads
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  - graduate,
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  - there should be a safe space for them
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  - to talk about those things.
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  - Yeah. Yeah. That's a good point. And I've
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  - seen many DSOs that have become more focused
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  - on leadership development and mentorship, as you mentioned,
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  - just because of the realization of how important
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  - this is for especially new dentists, but even
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  - dentists, that have been in the field for
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  - quite some time now.
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  - So a lot of this involves creating their
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  - own development programs and, you know, DSOs come
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  - in all different sizes. You know, you have
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  - some that are only 30 locations to some
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  - that have more than a thousand locations, for
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  - example. So,
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  - when... How can DSOs create standardized development programs
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  - for their networks while still recognizing that each
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  - dentist
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  - has different needs, goals, and requires a different
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  - pathway?
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  - Yeah. I think it starts with,
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  - number one, understanding
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  - the doctor. So understanding their strengths,
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  - their confidence levels, and and where their ambitions
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  - and goals are. I think a lot of
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  - times,
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  - turnover happens when those things are not understood.
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  - So, you know, there's tools you can put
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  - in place. For instance, baseline assessments. Right?
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  - Before day one, just sending out a survey
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  - of all of the kind of areas
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  - of practice,
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  - root canals,
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  - oral surgery, extracting teeth,
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  - crowns, fillings, and having a one to five
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  - scale of how comfortable are you and how
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  - confident are you in these procedures
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  - and just seeing where the doctor is to
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  - begin with.
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  - In addition to that, you can ask questions
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  - about ambition and what mentorship looks like to
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  - them.
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  - For some people, they want someone who will
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  - sit shoulder to shoulder with them for their
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  - first crown prep or something like that. And
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  - there's other people that feel more confident in
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  - their abilities,
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  - but maybe don't understand that business perspective and
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  - have goals of ownership.
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  - So, that would be... Number one is understanding
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  - and creating a baseline
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  - of where that person is at.
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  - And then taking it one step further,
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  - creating a strong clinical philosophy
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  - for them. So,
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  - kind of in collaboration.
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  - So clarity on standards of care, but leaving
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  - room for discussion if there is
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  - disagreement.
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  - What does that look like if then statements
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  - to ensure standardization?
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  - If two thirds of the occlusal table of
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  - the tooth is compromised,
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  - then indirect restoration.
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  - Things like that that take it one step
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  - further from identification,
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  - which you can use AI tools for, to
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  - now treatment planning and being confident in that
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  - treatment plan.
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  - You know, it's it's interesting because
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  - these these frameworks kind of take into account
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  - that clinical perspective, but there there are people
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  - that are looking for more than just that.
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  - Maybe they want professional growth. Right? So offering
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  - CE courses
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  - or things like that, learning about what it
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  - is that drives them, I think, is really,
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  - really important for that standard
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  - framework that, you know, becomes more personalized over
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  - time.
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  - For people who
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  - who, you know, are looking for more clinically
• 12:32
  - based help,
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  - core competencies and milestones. So, okay, you know,
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  - your first
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  - three crowns.
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  - The first one will sit chair side together.
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  - Your second one, you know, I'll be close
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  - by, but you're doing that on your own.
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  - Your third one, you know, all on your
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  - own kind of thing, and I'll
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  - just check afterwards.
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  - But but those standard...
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  - That standard framework
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  - can be tweaked for each person having those
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  - clinical documents in place and,
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  - knowing knowing your your doc are the first
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  - steps. Okay.
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  - And I'm very interested to hear your thoughts
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  - on this, next question. If you were designing
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  - the ideal first ninety days for a new
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  - dentist, what would you do? What would you
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  - include?
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  - So the first thirty days
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  - should really be
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  - almost like a dating period. Right? You're getting
• 13:27
  - to know each other,
• 13:28
  - and and making sure that you're aligned. So
• 13:31
  - getting to know the staff, getting to know
• 13:34
  - the technology in the office,
• 13:36
  - getting to know,
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  - your patient flow, how you move through an
• 13:41
  - appointment,
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  - that that should be the first thirty days.
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  - Then, you know, when you reach the sixty
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  - to ninety day mark, it should be that
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  - implement... Or thirty to sixty day mark. Excuse
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  - me. It should be implementation.
• 13:56
  - So, okay, I've talked about how we run
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  - through an appointment.
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  - Now it's your turn to go through these
• 14:02
  - appointments, and let's see, you know, how how
• 14:05
  - you do and and where there's areas for
• 14:07
  - improvement.
• 14:09
  - And then sixty to ninety days should really
• 14:11
  - be just support and confidence building. Hey. Great
• 14:14
  - job. Hey. Awesome work today.
• 14:17
  - It should really be they're confident on their
• 14:20
  - own and and moving in that direction on
• 14:22
  - their own.
• 14:24
  - Alright.
• 14:25
  - And, what are three changes an organization
• 14:28
  - could make immediately to improve performance and retention
• 14:32
  - for a new dentist?
• 14:35
  - So
• 14:36
  - to me,
• 14:37
  - a baseline assessment
• 14:39
  - is never a bad idea regardless of how
• 14:41
  - long a doctor has been in an office.
• 14:43
  - So, you know, a check-in of how are
• 14:46
  - you doing and what do you need
• 14:48
  - and how confident do you feel in each
• 14:50
  - of these procedures, I I don't think there's
• 14:52
  - ever a wrong time to do that.
• 14:55
  - So that would be number one.
• 14:57
  - Number two is,
• 14:59
  - you know, designating
• 15:01
  - ten to twenty minutes,
• 15:03
  - you know, once a month, once a week
• 15:04
  - depending on where your doctor... You know, your
• 15:06
  - associate is at,
• 15:08
  - to talk about
• 15:10
  - cases
• 15:11
  - and,
• 15:11
  - areas for improvement.
• 15:13
  - You know, when you're reaching... Going kinda back
• 15:15
  - to that ninety day,
• 15:18
  - process, sixty to ninety days should be evaluating
• 15:21
  - trends.
• 15:22
  - So in those fifteen to twenty minutes where
• 15:25
  - you're sitting down together, maybe you're addressing the
• 15:27
  - trends that you've noticed in,
• 15:30
  - case acceptance or outcomes
• 15:32
  - or
• 15:33
  - misdiagnosis,
• 15:34
  - things like that.
• 15:36
  - So that's number two, is setting aside time
• 15:38
  - to really work together and and see where
• 15:41
  - you're at.
• 15:43
  - Number three
• 15:45
  - would be,
• 15:47
  - I think, giving giving multiple
• 15:50
  - learning formats. So for example,
• 15:53
  - maybe it's not just reviewing cases. Maybe it's
• 15:56
  - sending YouTube videos. Right? Or or sending an
• 15:59
  - email that includes, like, three, four videos that
• 16:01
  - would be helpful for all the doctors across
• 16:04
  - the organization based on, you know, trends that
• 16:06
  - you're seeing.
• 16:07
  - Something to help bolster confidence,
• 16:10
  - and build community. So maybe in those YouTube
• 16:13
  - videos, if there's 10 people that agree that
• 16:15
  - this is a really useful tool,
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  - hey.
• 16:19
  - Maybe the 10 of us can talk together
• 16:20
  - about cases that are similar to this one.
• 16:23
  - I think that's a really powerful retention tool,
• 16:26
  - building community.
• 16:28
  - Alright.
• 16:29
  - Well, that concludes our conversation for today, doctor
• 16:32
  - Yale. Thank you so much. It's been great
• 16:33
  - having you on our podcast again. Pleasure speaking
• 16:35
  - with you, and looking forward to connecting with
• 16:37
  - you again in the future. Thanks so much,
• 16:39
  - Arianna. It was great chatting with you too.