Latest / The Elevator Careers Podcast / Air Force Values in Elevator Industry Leadership | Chris Miller

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Air Force Values in Elevator Industry Leadership | Chris Miller · The Elevator Careers Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Give it a try.
• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: Honestly, it's not going to hurt you.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's uh only good things can come from it.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: Even if you decide that it's not for you, uh, that will help you find that clarity.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you'll always pick up um lessons to learn and different skill sets from from joining this industry and trying.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um the this industry, one of the great things about it is that nobody, regardless of whether they're in senior leadership or middle management like me, or frontline supervisor or salesperson or you name it, or mechanic, nobody can be successful in this industry um on their own.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: Uh honestly.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's uh, you know, you're we're working with equipment from the 1950s all the way through present day, uh, as far as age range goes.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: And then as far as breadth of equipment you're working on, you're working with hundreds of different kinds of OEMs.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and so it's the ultimate, like I said, proven ground for leadership, but it's also the ultimate um environment for people that are team-oriented.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's a total this is a team sport, the elevator industry, all the way.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: Hello, and welcome to the Elevator Careers Podcast, sponsored by the Allred Group.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: I am your host, Matt Allred.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: In this podcast, we talk to the people whose lives and careers are dedicated to the vertical transportation industry, to inform and share lessons learned, building upon the foundation of those who have gone before to inspire the next generation of elevator careers.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: Today our guest is Chris Miller, general manager with Kone in Salt Lake City, Utah.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: Chris joined the elevator industry after several years in the U.S.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: Air Force, where he took to heart the core values, integrity first, service before self, and excellence in all we do.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: Chris loves what he does and has come to know that the elevator business is truly a team sport.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: Nobody can succeed alone.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: Chris is a student of leadership and strives to become a better leader every day.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: Chris, welcome to the show.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Matt.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: Appreciate you having me.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm excited.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's uh it's always good to talk to you, and I appreciate your willingness to to do this interview and and uh share with me some of the things you've learned throughout your career.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: And uh first question I just want to ask is uh, did you ever as a kid think you would spend your life working in the elevator industry?
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: No, um, that's a good question.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I I never even thought of the elevator industry, never even thought it was an industry until um in 2007 uh a headhunter had found my resume online and asked me if it was something I was interested in pursuing.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: And that's when I was like, oh, there's a whole industry around elevators.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I had no idea about it.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right, right.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: What was your early vision as a as a you know a kid or growing up?
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what what did you want to be?
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, well, um, I actually wanted to be a race car driver for a long time.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: And then uh that pivoted uh to being a professional football player.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: And then um, but you know, just as as far as more um um pedestrian type goals with career, um, it's funny because my when I would ask my parents when I was growing up what my dad did for a living, they always just said, well, he's a he's a businessman.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: And uh so I just always assumed I would I would become a businessman, whatever that is.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: So um those were my visions being a bit going into business, whatever that is.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you ended up spending some time in the military.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: What was it that led you that direction?
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I um, you know, when I was uh growing up, I had a um um I did have a sense that I really did want to quote unquote serve the country in some way, shape, or form.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: And um I uh as a young person really felt that the way you serve the country is by being in the military.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: Now, quick caveat, I've I've since learned as a result of actually my military experience that um you can serve the country in many, many other ways.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: The military is just one avenue by which you can serve.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but nonetheless, uh I did have a desire to serve uh in the military.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I had the privilege of um also uh getting recruited to play football at the Air Force Academy.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: So it became kind of a two birds, one stone kind of thing.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: It was like, oh, I can I can be in the Air Force and I can play football in college.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: So to me, it was kind of a no-brainer that that was that was the path I was going to pursue.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: Well, what were some of the most valuable lessons you learned while you're in the military?
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, the first thing that comes to mind is really the the core values of of the Air Force, and that is integrity first, service before self, excellence in all we do.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: And that's something that uh right from day one in basic training that that starts getting um drilled into you, into your head, um until until it becomes less of a cognitive thing and more of a heart thing in terms of those core values.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um without a doubt, those are still core values that um I adhere to today.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um uh, you know, and again, just to repeat it for the sake of conversation, you know, um integrity first, you know, that's no matter what, um, you always have to have integrity.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: And my, you know, the way I define integrity is integration between public and private life.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that that's no duplicity, you know, it's it's it's it's what you see is what you get.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: Your words and your actions are integrated.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um service before self, you know, as we'll talk about, I'm sure today, you know, I'm a big proponent of being a servant leader.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: I think that that is the model of leadership, the best model of leadership is a servant leader.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: So service before self um uh really for me started as a result of my experience in the military.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: And excellence in all we do is really, you know, put another way, is uh be the best version of yourself.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I I think that those are beautiful core values to live by.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: And that came from the military.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's awesome.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm sure we could uh spend a lot of time just kind of digging in into that.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: I I do want to shift a little bit because you know, you had a transition out of uh military into civilian life.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just curious what that was like.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: I've heard some different stories and uh from others, but what was your experience?
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, you know, um it was uh I didn't realize it at the time, but it it probably took me a few years to what I would call demilitarize, you know, when I went into the civilian world.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, looking back on it, because I I got out of the military in 06, so I was active duty from 98 to 06.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: And um I think um I was probably fairly rigid uh when I first got into the civilian world.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um things were more black and white, if you will, in terms of how you do things.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, being in the working world as a civilian, I had to adjust to the fact that um people don't just do things because you say, or this is what we should do.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and and so it's much more um, you know, dare I say, um, you know, uh uh winning friends and influencing people um uh by really getting them to buy into who you are and and why they should trust you and believe you, as opposed to, you know, uh having uh the military structure of well uh the he or she's the boss and and we have to do it because they say so.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um so more subtle, uh had to rely on uh much more than just my authority uh with the position that I was in.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um and uh also have to be more flexible, quite honestly.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: Now that probably sounds like a little bit of an oxymoron because lots of times in the military, uh flexibility is key.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, when I was in the Air Force, they used to say flexibility is the key to air power, and there's a lot of truth uh to those things.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um however, in the civilian world, um you just uh there's a lot more um uh well I should say there's a lot less structure, and therefore there's a much greater um importance on being able to influence uh people, not just because of the position that you hold.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's and I guess what's coming to mind is you know just that uh influence is seems to be more individual.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: You can't just say to a hundred people, okay, march after me and expect all hundred.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: So you have to essentially work or or exert yourself to to kind of one by one get to know the people and say, Okay, here's here's where we're going, right?
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_01: Or yeah.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, very well said.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the uh you know it's so interesting is that um, you know, I do consider myself a student of leadership.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I I think um you never fully uh reach the top of the mountain as a leader if if you're a true student of any discipline for that matter.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: There's always continual improvement.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's a labor of love, if you will.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's an art.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um yes, there's you could say there's a science aspect of leading, right?
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but the implementation of the leadership is art, right?
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, making it your own, having it fit uh and be um authentically yours, the principles of leadership, having them fit within your personality and how you choose to apply them.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: And so my own leadership style, I would say, in some ways is more um, you know, adapted and morphed a lot uh from when I was in the military to where I'm at now in the civilian world in the elevator industry.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: But the core principles have remained the same, you know, it's like what we started out with with those three core values, and then uh, but the chain of command, you know, the way information flows, the the need to set expectations, hold people accountable, um uh follow through, um, communicate uh both with your internal customers and external.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's the dichotomy, if you will, that um the implementation must uh be flexible and adapt to the situations you're in, but the core principles kind of remain the same.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: And so just to be more specific to your comments, Matt, the um, you know, it's kind of like when you lead people, you have to hold um um everyone accountable.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: You have to hold a um consistent standard, if you will, and that, hey, if if this is the behavior, this will be the result, be it a positive consequence or a negative consequence.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: Because one thing that kills morale quicker than anything else in an organization is if people feel that certain folks are getting unfair uh favoritism, um, or other folks aren't being held accountable.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: But that doesn't mean you treat everybody the same, right?
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so how I motivate um maybe one of my superintendents versus uh that has one type of personality versus how I need to speak to or address uh or address or motivate uh, let's say another salesperson with a whole totally different kind of personality.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: I need to adjust my style to effectively communicate each person based on um how they're motivated, while also maintaining the consistency of equal accountability across the board.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the art piece, the art aspect of it, if you will.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: It it definitely makes it more personal, right?
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: To address each person in a way that that you can connect with them, build the trust, and then you know, hopefully they have a desire to you know come along.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, well said, you know, it's every every single person, as we know, is is different.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: We're not all the same.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: And therefore, a one-size-fits-all approach, if you're a leader, is never going to be the most effective approach.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you have to you have to know your audience, right?
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: Uh that's that's uh like communication 101 right there is yeah, who's your audience?
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: Leadership is uh so much about communication, you know.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: So knowing knowing your audience, right?
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, absolutely.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: You shared with me a uh a story about working in a labor union and um as I recall, aerospace out after the military.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: What was uh share that with me and what what you learned from kind of that experience?
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, that was um that was kind of a transition job for me, you know, because I I it was my first civilian job post-military.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: So this was in the 2006 time frame, and I was uh running baggage handlers at a major airport.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, um that happened to be uh organized labor, the the workforce that I was running.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: And uh keep in mind this is back when I was in just beginning the process of being air quotes here, the demilitarized, um, as very much in the military mindset still, even though I was a civilian then.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember going to a particular gate um at this airport where the uh baggage handling crew, one of the baggage handling crews was that I was running for that shift.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I introduced myself as as their um their supervisor for the evening, and uh they proceeded to say, you know, why the F do we care?
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought to myself, well, I am not in the military anymore, am I?
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: There was no saluting, no calling me sir.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, and so that was quite honestly, um, there were a few good lessons that came out of that one-year stint, that transition stint before I eventually got found my way into the elevator industry.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: And that is um, you know, one, I'm not anti-union, but there has to be a balance of power, if you will, uh, between the company side and and the union side.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there has to be balance.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: And it can't be if it's a seesaw, if it's tipped too much one way or the other, then that doesn't make for uh fair, um, fair balance and negotiating in good faith, if you will.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um it and it doesn't build trust, right?
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: But the other thing, the uh the other problem that I discovered uh through that experience was that there has to be a balance between, or rather, there has to be equal um authority that's commensurate with the responsibility level.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I was a superintendent in that role.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: And um, the superintendents, uh my my peer superintendents uh who were working with me um at that location for that company, we had all of the responsibility, but we didn't have the authority that matched that responsibility.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: And so you felt kind of like a sitting duck or a sacrificial language.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: Was it was it the company just not supporting you, or what did that look like in as you saw it?
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that was um from a lack of support from our leadership uh up the chain from us, um, and because of um uh leaders above uh the immediate um superintendents, um, you know, higher up, you know, operations manager level folks, because of their lack of courage, uh, because when you're in leadership, you're gonna have incongruity, you're gonna have to have courageous conversations, you're gonna have to hold folks accountable.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: And and uh that doesn't mean you have to have ugly conflict, but it means that as a part of human nature, there will be conflict.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: And in my opinion, because those folks weren't willing to have any conflict whatsoever, it had created this imbalance where the union had all the power, the comp the superintendents didn't have anything.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: We knew that if the anything we did, anytime we would try to hold someone accountable who was a union member, it would eventually be overturned through the multiple levels of the grievance process.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's why I I say there has to be authority commensurate with responsibility level, and that has to that begins with your higher-ups supporting uh you as a frontline person.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: I I like the way you say that.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: And and to me, it uh what I'm seeing in my mind is just, you know, it a leader uh has to be able, like you say, to live with that incongruity and kind of kind of bridge that gap to kind of stand in that space between, hey, this is uh incongruous and and yet being able to uh to kind of deal justly with all uh all sides.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: And and that's that's not an easy thing.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not something that like you say you can just hide from if you're in that role, you you know, the the forces on either side are gonna, you know, create the imbalance and take advantage of the other, perhaps.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's true.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the um um I have a tremendous amount of spec uh respect for frontline supervisors in any organization, quite honestly, because you know, it's it's where would I say that's where the superintendent lives in the brackish water, you know, and I don't know much about sailing or or boats or being on the water, but I know this, and that is some of the most turbulent water is where freshwater and salt water mix.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, and that's referred to as brackish water.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's where the superintendent lives.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's their life is in the brackish water.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, they are right where uh the union and where the company meet.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: And that can be a good, a good mixing, a good relationship if you have a superintendent that knows how to bridge that gap and to build trust on both sides.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um unfortunately, uh you you don't find many good superintendents because it's a very difficult job.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: It requires all of yourself, and um, it requires every bit of leadership skills and and um commitment to work ethic that one has.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um but I know it it can be done.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: I've seen it done.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: And um when it when it does happen and when that gap is bridged and there's trust between company and union, it it's truly a beautiful thing.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: Tell tell me about you know what what are the critical components to really being able to bridge that gap?
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: And and as I say that, I'm one of the things that's coming to mind is somebody I talked with recently who, similar to you, came out of the military, got put right into a superintendent job, and and they were telling me how you know to be able what they did, you know, ask a lot of questions.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: But even then the mechanics were like, you know, what are you why are you asking all these questions?
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: But also just being humble enough to realize that that I'm not here to teach you anything.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm here to to help bring some solutions.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just curious what you would say to that.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's so interesting.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: Bear with me.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'll meander a tiny bit.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: And that is, you know, I when we talk about diversity, right?
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: Uh one of the forms of diversity, I think, as far as uh let's talk in the elevator industry, uh, would be having superintendents.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, if you have superintendents uh in a particular office, a blend between outside the industry superintendents and superintendents that have come up from the field.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: That that's a nice balance because outside the industry hires like myself have one particular approach and can see things perhaps in a different way, dare I say fresh way.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but others that have come up as mechanics have a level of expertise, technical expertise that guys like me that came in from the outside aren't going to have.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: And when you put those two different kinds of perspectives together, again, a lot of beautiful magic things can happen.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but one of the things that I learned is that as a superintendent or an operations manager, you don't have to be the technical expert.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's it's not my job to know exactly how to troubleshoot an elevator if it's shown certain fault codes, or you know, or if we've had multiple call outs on a particular elevator in spite of having done X, Y, and Z.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: That's the it's not me as a superintendent that, well, let me tell you what we need to do, Mr.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_00: Foreman Mechanic, and and this will fix it.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: Rather, a superintendent's a generalist, and and they need to provide the support and the tools and the training or whatever the case may be for the people that are the subject matter experts, which in this example would be the mechanics in the field.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: So by making, so how do you how do you get buy-in then from a union person um if if you're their their boss as a superintendent and you've never been a mechanic?
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, in my experience, what I learned is that you have to prove to them that their life is better with you around than not around.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: Meaning your presence helps them uh it helps their job to be easier.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: It gets them uh the tools or the support, or you engage on issues with customers that uh that provides them a level of support and gives them a clear path to do what they do best, which is fix elevators.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: So when the field, in this case, the union folks get that buy-in that wow, life is better with this particular superintendent around, then you start getting that trust.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: And then you start really again, beautiful things start happening.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm sure that obviously there's a a vast array of that.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just curious, how long does that take?
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: And what are what are some maybe some specific examples of you know, here's here's when trust was won?
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that is uh excellent question, and it varies, right?
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna sound like a politician when I say this, but it depends, Matt.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: But I'll answer you.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: I'll answer you direct here.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: The um um it does depend on the people that you have.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: It depends on uh the culture uh that's kind of already in place, you know, because culture plays a piece of this too.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: And just as a quick aside, uh, you know, there's a there's a saying, which I'm sure you've heard, many people probably listening to this podcast have heard it.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: And that is uh culture eats strategy for breakfast.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: And that is no matter what kind of fancy strategy someone may come up with, if your team has a winning culture, they're gonna figure out a way to get it done.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: Pick your favorite NFL team, whether you know Steelers in the 70s, Niners in the 80s or whatnot.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they always with their culture, they always found a way to win.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so you know, um what I have found um in my experience as a superintendent, it's usually a year, you know, but that's not a hard and fast rule.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um you have to grind it out, you have to prove over the course of time um that you are who you say you are, and that um and that who you say you are uh is not just a uh a flash in the pan.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's real and proven over the course of time.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um which in my experience is is is difficult in itself because you know, looking back on some of my experiences coming out of college, I was an HR guy guy for a while and I was like, you know, I was kind of a jerk.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I just I just I didn't I didn't have a good, I don't think, a good self-concept, you know, of who I was.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe I thought I had a little more power than I, you know, than they were willing to give me.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: But I there are some things that I regret.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe for me it would have been a few extra years to kind of say, okay, dude, you know, maybe, maybe now we can trust you.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: But uh I'm just curious.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, there's one reason with superintendents in particular, it takes a while to build trust, is because they turn over so quickly.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so a lot of times the field guys are like, Well, who's this latest guy or girl?
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and we'll see how long they last.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: And so again, it's not for the faint of heart.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but um, you know, I'll give you a real example, and uh, I don't mean this uh uh to toot my horn, but it's something I'm grateful for.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: It was a team effort, and um uh, but you know, there was a job uh in in a major city, and um I had come in as uh the service manager in this downtown office.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_00: We had 18 folks that I was running uh in the field, and uh the previous folks had been a revolving door, and it was an extremely strong, crusty union uh environment, uh very anti-company.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: And um uh, you know, uh the definition of love is uh to will the good of the other.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and and I think when you look at servant leadership, people need to love their people, even if even if their people injure them for that.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, now I don't mean love them like hey, I'm gonna be your best buddy, because leadership is not about being everybody's best buddy, but leadership takes courage.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: And just like a parent, uh in my opinion, a parent shouldn't necessarily be their child's best best friend.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: They they need to be their mom or their dad, right?
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_00: Well, in the same case, a leader needs to be a leader first versus everybody's buddy.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: But in this particular case, the example I'm referencing, it it took every bit of a year before uh these very hardened um IUEC gentlemen uh finally started warming up to me.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: And when they did warm up to me, the level of loyalty that I had from them is unparalleled to any level of loyalty I've ever had by any other group in the entirety of my career.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: And so it goes back to the old adage you're gonna get out of it what you put into it.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: And anything in this life worth achieving is gonna require blood, sweat, and tears.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: That's just how it goes.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's uh yeah, I love that.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate that.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I think that's certainly something to a rising generation, my own kids, right?
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: Helping them realize that that it's not just about kicking back and putting your feet on the desk, right?
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_01: If you if you really want to engage and succeed, you know, there's like you say, blood, sweat, tears.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: There's there's real effort that that goes really deep in into who are you and and how are you gonna engage with these people.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that, you know, referencing my example before, I think that's where I was kind of struggling 20 something years ago was was I I was I was pretty insecure myself.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so I didn't know how to navigate those waters.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: And uh it's taken me a while to to learn that.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_01: So thanks for bringing that up.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, you bet.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, in your defense, that all of us go through that uh truly, you know, and um you know, the uh um I once read that the definition of humility is just thinking uh less of yourself.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: Now that doesn't mean thinking less of yourself in terms of esteem, like I'm just a uh a piece of dirt.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: No, it means thinking less often of yourself, being more other focused.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's a good example of humility.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it takes folks, uh, you know, if if if if we humans are like uh fine wine, it we get ideally we get better with age, right?
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: And humility is something that oftentimes has to be learned, right?
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: When we're younger, lots of times when we're younger, as we see in our kids, it's kind of me, me, me, right?
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: Sure, absolutely.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, by default, I think we just come programmed that way.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: So um, so I'm I'm curious what uh you know, once you join the elevator industry, how long before things started to click that hey, this this is somewhere where I could actually stay, I can plant some roots here.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, another great question.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: The um well, I'll be very honest with you.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: Uh for a long time I was trying to run away from the responsibility of being a superintendent.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: I was I was giving it my all.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I attribute uh the military background for that is that hey, this is the mission before me, and even if I'm not enjoying it, um, I need to give it everything I got, right?
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but the elevator industry and and a superintendent in particular in the elevator industry is very demanding, you know.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: Dare I say it's kind of like a 24-7 always on commitment.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, and I was very much uh when I was younger seeking that uh the the Margaritaville that Jimmy Buffett sings about.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_00: And how am I gonna make that happen, you know, and and still have enough money and just life is about, you know, um relaxing and just having a good time.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, as I've matured, because you know, we were just talking about that in the previous uh question and answer, and that is uh just from my own philosophy, um I I the the the older I get, the more I realize that life is not about me.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's about serving others, you know, uh love, right?
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like as I defined it a few minutes ago, to will the good of the other, servant leadership, right?
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: And so I had a stint um back in uh 2015 uh as a year uh as a consultant.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I had thought to myself, a consultant in the in the elevator industry, and I had thought to myself, oh, this is great.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna have anybody that has to that reports to me.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm gonna be uh a lone wolf, independent individual contributor.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna have better work life balance, I'll be able to do kind of whatever I want.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it was very eye-opening for me, but I I really did not like that job.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_00: I thought I would, but I thought it was everything I wanted.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: And we also know that one of the sometimes one of the um the funny things in life is when people get exactly what they want.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes they find out it's not actually what they wanted.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: And that's kind of what happened to me.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: Now, the consultant thing for me wasn't my gig.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I realized that I wanted the leadership piece.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: I missed having uh mission and purpose.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_00: I missed um uh having the camaraderie of having other peers and direct reports and bosses in the fight with me, right?
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: And so it was at that time that I felt, in a sense, like the prodigal son, and I decided to return.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I was like, okay, this leadership thing, it's it's what I do, and it's the stressful side of this business.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: But this time, instead of running from it and fighting it all the time, I'm gonna go back into it.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going back into the fight, and I recognize now that this is what I do and that my life is not about me.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, at this point in time, uh, when I had made that decision, I had uh two daughters and another one on the way.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_00: And so um all of that played into me now embracing um the res um the responsibility uh that comes with being a leader.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_00: And quite honestly, it's made all the difference.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's made all the difference for me.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: So just leaning into uh like you say, it's it's it's a it's a weight, right?
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_01: There's a there's a weight of responsibility on your shoulders, and and what I hear you saying is I was I was wanting to kind of run away from that, and now I'm just I'm just leaning in, you know, squaring my shoulders and putting that weight there, and and that's where you're finding your your joy.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: That's true.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's um it's funny how that works, isn't it?
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's in self-sacrifice that uh yes, they can be you can have very tough times.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_00: Uh you might not be quote unquote happy in a particular moment because of the stress and the things that are going on, but you can have joy.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_00: Joy is deeper than happiness, and you can have true joy if you know you're on purpose and you're serving others, and that you're and that the team that you're a part of is on the right path, and the sacrifices that are being made are for a greater good.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I do firmly believe that uh with leadership, uh, what separates mere um uh leaders that uh are are posing as leaders versus authentic leaders, genuinely authentic leaders, is what I would call um uh suffering and responsibility.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_00: That that that sounds doom and gloom, but I really think that that's what it comes down to is the true bona fide leaders out there um are willing to suffer and they're willing to say, put the responsibility on my shoulders.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_00: They don't run from it, they run to it.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it's not meant for everybody.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_01: I kind of what I'm hearing is is almost kind of like willing to sacrifice your your whether it's time, your your convenience for for your people, for the greater good, for you know, because bearing that burden uh of leadership is you know, there is a sacrifice to that.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: But like you say, if that's where your gifts are and that's where you find your joy, then that's awesome.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you you Yeah.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's important to recognize uh where one's one's talents and gifts lie, right?
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_00: Not everybody's a leader, not everyone's meant to be a leader, right?
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that's not to say that leaders are better than other people.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_00: No, we we need this this world needs people of every kind of background and talent level and skill level and um uh all different kinds of gifts, right?
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_00: But for those who do have uh the the quote unquote gift of leadership, um and once they recognize that, then that's something to be embraced.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: And that that's there, then dare I say that's part of what you're calling is is if is if you have those particular gifts, there's a reason for that.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_01: That's cool.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_01: You uh you would mention earlier, you know, being a student of leadership.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm just curious, what are some of the the most powerful tools, resources?
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um I'm assuming, and you can clarify this, but that the the student of leadership maybe came post-2015 versus prior to that when when you weren't quite as settled in that role.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: No doubt.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_00: And again, very astute observation and comment on your part.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_00: The uh right, when in embracing it, it's almost uh similar to if you had a uh uh uh somebody who is uh has musical talent, but they never they're not interested in it.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't want to practice the piano three hours a day after school, you know.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but then something clicks maybe when they're older and they they recognize that wow, this really is a gift that not many people have, and I need to I need to cultivate it, I need to hone it.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_00: And then all and then and then they and then they start doing that.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_00: And in and uh to to validate what you just said, that's very much how it was for me.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I actually study leadership now.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_00: So to answer your question, you know, there's three things in particular that have um um kind of formed the hallmark of my civilian leadership style that have helped out a lot.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_00: Believe it or not, one of them is uh the old Gary Chapman book, uh Five Love Languages.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, uh I highly recommend that because uh it's not just about romantic relationships, about it's about relationships as a whole.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know, does somebody are words of affirmation, someone's love language?
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: I could tell you for me, if somebody says thank you to me, I'm willing to run through a burning brick wall for them.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_00: That's a love language for me.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, other people maybe like my mother, uh, her love language is uh gift giving.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_00: Uh that that is how she shows her love is by giving people gifts.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_00: Even if it's gonna make her go bankrupt, she's getting gifts for you to show you she loves you.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um so five love languages, one book I highly recommend.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, another one is uh Patrick Linchoni's uh Five Dysfunctions of a Team.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: And it basically talks about um how trust is the is the most important aspect of any team that's gonna be world class.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_00: You have to have trust as its foundation.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_00: And he's not talking about predictive trust.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_00: He's talking about, you know, predictive trust meaning I know Matt Alred's going to ask another question of me.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_00: I can predict that's going to happen.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but uh the trust that Matt or that Patrick Lincioni's talking about is trust that I can be real in this on this team.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: I can actually have a different opinion than my boss, and I don't have to worry about sharing that different opinion with my boss.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_00: I don't have to worry that he's going to fire me as a result of that.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_00: So that that's a great book uh and great principle.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_00: I highly recommend to everyone.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_00: And then the third thing is the disc model, D I S C.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: And that talks about people's four different personality types.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_00: Some people uh under the I uh portion of the disc model are congruent.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_00: They're they're very affable, they get along with everybody, they want people, they they want it's very important to them that people like them.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_00: Other people like with D are very direct, and it's kind of like, hey, you're talking too much, get to the point.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_00: Just I want it what what's your point here?
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_00: And so in leadership, you know, what we were talking about earlier is know your audience, right?
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_00: All that helps me to know my audience.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_00: Am I talking to a D?
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_00: Well, then I'm not gonna ask them how their day was.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just gonna go straight to what what we got to talk about.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_00: Let's get to business.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_00: Or am I talking to somebody that's uh an S on that model?
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_00: That means they love data.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm not gonna give them my opinion, I'm gonna show them data because data to them is all that matters.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_00: These are all good things to keep in mind with you know, leadership, if you will.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_01: So what um, and obviously we've talked a lot about leadership.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'm curious, what what would you if you boiled it down, what's what's the essay?
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_01: What's what's at the core of good leadership?
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_00: Caring about others, you know, it I what I said before about love, you know, it's uh servant leadership, it's about genuinely caring about those you've been charged with leading, you know, to whom much has been given, much is expected, right?
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_00: And leadership is um it's a humbling honor, you know, and it's a lot of responsibility, and much is expected of it.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so uh you have to care and um you have to genuinely, and I use this word, love your people, will the good of the other, even if they injure you for it.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_00: You need to be strong enough as a leader and courageous enough of uh as a leader to deal with that because it's not for the faint of heart.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and and people can tell if you care or don't care, right?
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_01: And that's that's what you're gonna get back, is you know, it's it's even though it's uh you know it's maybe easy to think that that you can hide it, you can't.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_01: Right, they're gonna know.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_00: I agree, and I think that ties in, Matt, to what we were saying before, you know, about you know, when I was saying it takes roughly a year to prove to earn people's trust.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that's because, you know, um over the course of a year, you can really see the consistency of somebody's motives and the in their character, really.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's very easy for people to be turning on the charm and uh a certain way, maybe for a short period of time, right?
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_00: And so that it's over the course of time that that people begin to see that you know what I might not like this leader uh in terms of uh uh he might not be the the person I I want to hang out with all the time, but I respect him and I recognize that that he or she is a good leader.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like is not necessarily synonymous with whether someone's a good leader or not.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_00: I I like I've liked plenty of people that haven't been great leaders.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_00: Uh there's been other people that, quite honestly, uh have been um maybe I haven't liked as much, but uh boy did I have a tremendous amount of respect for them as leaders, and and boy were they effective as leaders.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_00: And that doesn't mean they didn't care for me.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_00: They cared for me greatly.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_00: But uh, you know, leadership, like I said, is not shouldn't necessarily be a popularity contest, you know, because whether someone likes you or not, feelings are so fleeting, right?
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_00: Feel feelings come and go just like the clouds pass over the sky.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_00: But so over the course of time, you know, you can build that trust and um and then people can begin to see uh, you know, if if you're truly who you say you are as a leader and have their best interest in mind.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, if they learn to trust you, then they can then they can put their whole heart into it, knowing that you know you're not just gonna be capricious or or you know, because until they feel that safety, is what I would interpret it, then then they're they don't feel like they can give what they've got to give.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_00: That's true.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_00: And the boss, you know, whether people are conscious of it or not, the boss usually sets the tempo.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_00: And the boss is is busting his or her butt.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um that doesn't mean everybody's gonna bust their butt, but more than not, they will.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_00: If the boss is uh playing hooky all the time, then most likely their folks are gonna well if the boss doesn't care, then then why should I?
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know?
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, yeah.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_00: The um, you know, so I I will I will say this, uh, you know, for those, you know, for other folks that you uh um may be working with, Matt, that are junior military officers or you know, uh or senior NCOs and they're considering uh this this elevator industry, I will tell you, um it's uh if you truly, if they and in addressing them, if if they consider themselves truly students of leadership, if they consider themselves leaders and that's their their profession is leadership, then this is a great industry for them, you know, because you know, for myself, um, it's not about elevators.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_00: The elevator is a great industry, but when you're in a leadership role like I am, uh elevators just happens to be the currency in which we're dealing with, or that I'm dealing with, but it's more about leading in organizations and um social psychology and individual uh psychology and how people get along, and um, you know, it it's elevators now for me, and it will be the rest of my career, but you know, you you pick the industry, these are all all the same kind of challenges that leaders face.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I can tell you that um uh, you know, like the Marcus Allen story I shared with you a couple weeks ago, you know, Mark, I was watching this um NFL life story on Marcus Allen, the the great running back for the Raiders and the Chiefs.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the things he said was one of the reasons he liked playing football was because he found it to be the ultimate proving ground for one's toughness, as in this case, as a man, right?
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I would dare say that leadership in this industry, and especially if you're coming up as a supervisor, same exact thing.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_00: This is the ultimate proven ground for leadership, and it's not for the faint of heart, and it's gonna require all of yourself and uh to bridge the gap between companies and union and and um it's a tough industry, but that magic can happen.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I've had the good fortune of being a part of uh organizations where that does happen, and as tough as this industry is, it you can actually have fun in it when when that starts clicking and people start buying into buying into the common purpose, common goals, common objectives.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and as we uh as we get close to our time here, I just got one uh question I I think that's gonna tie this together, and and that is what advice would you give to someone who is brand new?
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe they're coming out of the military, maybe they're coming out of college, uh, someone who's brand new to this industry.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_01: What would you tell them?
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um I would tell them uh give it a try.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um honestly, it it's it's not gonna hurt you.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's uh only good things can come from it.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_00: Even if you decide that it's not for you, uh, that will help you find that clarity.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you'll always pick up um lessons to learn and different skill sets from from joining this industry and trying.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um the this industry, one of the great things about it is that nobody, regardless of whether they're in senior leadership or middle management like me, or frontline supervisor or salesperson or you name it, or mechanic, nobody can be successful in this industry um on their own.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_00: Uh honestly.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's uh, you know, you're we're working with equipment from the 1950s all the way through present day, uh, as far as age range goes.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_00: And then as far as breadth of equipment you're working on, you're working with hundreds of different kinds of OEMs.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and so it's the ultimate, like I said, proven ground for leadership, but it's also the ultimate um environment for people that are team oriented.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's a total, this is a team sport, the elevator industry, all the way.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_00: And so um that would be my my advice is to give it a try and progress through motion.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_00: Even if you don't know what you want to be when you grow up, the way you get closer to finding what you want to be when you grow up is through progress.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's not by sitting in a room and just saying, I'm gonna do nothing until I figure out what I want to do.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_00: No, you it's by doing something that you're gonna figure out what you ultimately want to do.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_01: Chris, thank you so much.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's been a pleasure uh interviewing you, and I appreciate you being with me.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm I'm humbled and honored uh that you asked me.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_00: So thanks, Matt.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_00: I enjoyed talking to you.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_01: Good luck to you.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_00: Appreciate it.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for listening to the Elevator Careers Podcast, sponsored by the All Red Group, a leader in elevator industry recruiting.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_01: You can check us out online at elevatorcareers.net.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_01: Please subscribe, and until next time, stay safe.