Latest / Zone2Speak Podcast / Uncharted Grit: Cara Dixon Conquering the Badlands

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Uncharted Grit: Cara Dixon Conquering the Badlands · Zone2Speak Podcast

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Hi, everyone. Thanks for joining us for another episode of the Zone to Speak podcast.
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Today, we are so happy to have a truly inspiring guest with us,
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Cara Dixon, a remarkable ultra cyclist who has pushed the limits of endurance
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and determination on some of the toughest courses around the world.
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Cara is known for her relentless drive and incredible mental resilience,
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tackling grueling multi-day races that test the body and mind.
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From battling extreme conditions to navigating the highs and lows of ultra-distant
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cycling, Kara's journey is a testament to what's possible when passion meets perseverance.
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Today, we'll dive into her experiences, the challenges she's faced,
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and the triumphs that come with pushing beyond the boundaries of what most of us think is possible.
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Welcome to the Zone to Speak podcast. We're so excited to have you with us today.
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Hi, everyone. Welcome to the Zone to Speak podcast. We're your host, Debbie. And Juliana.
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Music.
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I see, like, so many people are cyclists. I feel like Vistro is a mini Girona.
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It's a wetter Girona. It's, I mean, I think it did feel like that when I went to Girona.
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It did have similar vibes in that just the cycling community is amazing.
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Amazing i feel like jerome obviously has a lot higher level of like pro cyclists
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like professional cyclists like bristol's a lot more casual you've got some
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incredible cyclists here especially with like adventure and ultra cyclists there's
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some really good like big people have lived here and the community is really
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nice really supportive really friendly and like.
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It's not your typical, what I've got to say, like old school cycling clubs.
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It's all pretty new stuff. All like, yeah, we've got like an incredible like
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women's just, it's not really a cycling club.
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It's sort of turned into a cycling club. It's basically just a WhatsApp group,
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which anyone who's in Bristol who just wants to ride with local women just is
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part of this WhatsApp group.
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And you just send out a message and like somebody is like, oh yeah,
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I'm free this afternoon or something.
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Thing because bristol's it's a really easy city
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to get out of to ride it's if you
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if you go out like west you can get out to like
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mountain bike trails within 15 minutes from the center which
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is just there's not many cities where you can do that um especially in the uk
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like a big city to be able to just go out and do mountain bike trails from like
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the center of town within 15 minutes is just special and maybe that's why it
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attracts a lot of cyclists i don't know but yeah it's It's definitely a good
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city to live. But yeah, it is a bit expensive.
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I think I got lucky with where I'm living now because it's just a guy who was
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sort of, I sort of knew through one of my cycling clubs who had,
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well, it's his house and I'm just a lodger. Wonderful.
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Yeah. Yeah. It's a nice city.
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Geron is getting super expensive and there are quite a few protests going on.
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Yeah. About what mostly?
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The locals are upset, you know. I think this is happening in a lot of small towns, actually.
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I get everybody's side, but it's just like these small towns are living off
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tourism, but you also don't want crowds and you don't want prices to go up.
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So what do you want? But they are targeting cyclists.
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Yeah, I think it's, I remember that when I was in Girona, they did have like,
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I think it was around the track, it was the last time I went to Girona.
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Obviously it was absolutely rand with
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cyclists who were just there just for this race and i
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do understand it from their point of view like
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the whole airbnb boom and it's the same way my mom wants to move to basically
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she works in this small little market town but it's like a 20 minute drive for
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her and she's getting to the age where she doesn't want to have to be relying
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on a car but she recently she broke her wrist when a dog pulled her over but
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like it meant she felt really isolated not being able to live in the town where she works.
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But because it's on the edge of the North Yorkshire Moors, it's a really touristy
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town, every house that comes up on the market just immediately gets bought by
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somebody to turn it into a holiday let.
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And it just means the people who work these not high-paying jobs,
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they're just working in shops and the cafes, the things that sort of make that
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town what it is, they can't afford to live there because everything just gets bought as a holiday let.
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It's sad. It's like they created what that community is. And now everybody gets kind of pushed out.
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It's so nice to meet you, Cara. I think I've seen you around Girona before.
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I think I've seen you at the Traka as well.
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I didn't race. I was going to do the 560, but it got canceled.
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You raced the 200? I was down to do the 560 because that was kind of like,
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it felt like a really good distance for me.
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I really wanted to have a rematch with Cynthia, obviously. I had to battle last
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year. I met her a few days before the start. I think it was just at a cafe or something.
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And we were both really looking forward to like having that race.
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Obviously, Lael was there as well. And I was like, this is incredible.
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There's like such a stacked field.
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And then when it got cancelled, I thought, okay, that's disappointing. But like, I'll do 360.
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It's going to be completely different because the 360s raced.
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It's a weird distance for me, that distance. Like I can pace myself for a 100 mile race, like 160k.
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I can pace myself for a 500 mile race
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like 800k I can do that but for something like
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360k it's a weird sort of it's really intense still like you saw the speed like
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G and Caro who won it like the speed like how strong they were over such a long
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race I did just get an email through yesterday I think they are doing the 560
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again next year and yeah now I'm gonna do that I think so what What would happen?
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What are the chances? It can't get cancelled two years in a row.
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That would be incredibly difficult.
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It was canceled? Is that what happened? They had some massive storms in Girona,
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like the week leading up to the three, like basically the week I was there in
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Girona, it rained every day.
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And they had a lot of the 560 route went, well, there was some bits that went
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like over 1400 meters or something, went really high.
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And the snow line was, basically you'd be riding through snow for a lot of it.
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So they had to change the route initially to get rid of those high bits.
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And then I think the weather was still just, massive
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storms so they kind of just ended up cancelling it because they
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want to postpone it another day and another day and just keep postponing
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it and they they did say like anyone who
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had entered 560 could do either of the other races and that
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was like good enough obviously there are a lot of people there who are like more
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ultra specialists who just thought what's
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the point in doing the other races and just riding around
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them but they're not going to be competitive at it but I went and thought why
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not I'll give it a go and I enjoyed it like it was it was good it's not something
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that suited me as much but I went off way too hard I just kind of got excited
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and just it went off really hard
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because it was like a mixed start and it started on this big road climb.
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Out of I can't remember it was just a long sort of sort of shallow road climb
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so it was pretty fast and I was just like okay I'm trying to move up through
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the field I started kind of far back in it and made my way up into a decent group.
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I was in a group with like, I can't remember who else, but like Sarah Stone
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was in there. So I thought, okay, this is not a good group to be in.
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If somebody like hers. I'll say.
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I've obviously managed to make my way into a decent group. And I rode with that
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group for a couple of hours, I think. It was hard work, but...
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I think it was like a corner I crashed out on.
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I think the people whose wheel I was following missed this turning.
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Like it was a left turning and I think they missed it. They didn't see it coming on the route.
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So they missed it. I saw the turning and I took the turning,
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but I took the turning with like as much speed as they were carrying, not doing the turning.
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So I basically took this corner at like 40k an hour and just wiped out and cut
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my left leg up quite badly.
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But I got back on and I got back on into that group. somehow
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and I just dropped my chain on the next descent so that's actually
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what dropped me out of that group because then I just could not pace myself
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back up to that then I sort of rode on my own for
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half an hour or something before Danny Shrewsbury's
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group caught me and then I rode with them for a while and then I
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got like a triple puncture going through a river crossing basically this entire
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race was not it was I had such bad luck
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in this race I had two punctures in the rear tire and
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one in the front just from basically just smacking the
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rim going through a river crossing too fast which was just
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my inexperience really everyone else was going on the
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outside it was not river crossing just like a bit of
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a stream that crossed over a bit of a road and people
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were taking like the dry line i was just like just get your feet wet just why
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are you doing this just get your feet wet we're in a race i was like well obviously the
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reason they took that is because they could actually see where the obstacles were i didn't
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see the obstacles i went through and but it took
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me ages to sort those punctures out as well but by the time i'd
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fixed that like it was quite far back down so I just had to spend a lot of time
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chasing and I think I rode for another 2k so that I crashed out at like 80k
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and then I think I rode for another 200k after that with just like blood dripping
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down my legs and oh my goodness it got to the final like there's a big climb about,
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280k in where I just kind of I was struggling a lot my leg was in a lot of pain and I kind of dropped.
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I'd made my way back up through the field quite a bit and
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I'm not quite sure where I was at that point but I was just feeling so
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bad and I was like yeah is it really worth it trying
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to race for like I don't know maybe a top 20 or something and
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I just kind of saw an ambulance at I think like the third feed like the last
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feed before the finish and I just thought it's probably sensible to actually
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just get checked out here rather than rather than injuring myself more which
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I kind of did because I I could not pedal for the next two weeks really I think
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it was just swelling because Because it did go down after just resting it.
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But eventually I had to drop out. I was supposed to be doing seven serpents in Slovenia.
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And I had to drop out of that because I was injured, which was really disappointing.
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And then I had to drop out of the Gralic as well, which is the one in Scotland.
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And it was just not amazing. And it kind of put a downer on the first half of
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my season because I'd had not a great few, like two couple of races before then as well.
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Just bad luck, not being at the level I was sort of hoping to be at the beginning of the season.
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I think after that, I took a bit of a break. I had like
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a couple of months where I didn't do any races and I went on
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a nice bikepacking trip with like one of my best friends we went to Ireland
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we did something like Cork and Kerry like the west coast we did about 1200k
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like 1200 kilometers in like six days so it wasn't like a chill bikepacking
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it was like 200k a day bikepacking yeah that's a heavy duty we were staying
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really nice bmbs we were like stopping at cafes having lunch having dinner at
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like pubs it was chill it It was.
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Last year, I did a race down the west coast of Ireland, like an ultra,
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and it was, I think I did about 400k a day.
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And I was swimming for three hours a day. And I was not stopping at cafes and not stopping at B&Bs.
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And to go back this year with a friend and just do it chill and like,
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enjoy the same bit of scenery.
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Like it's absolutely incredible. Ireland's incredible, but like the west coast
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is just stunning. Like the sea is amazing.
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You see a different perspective as well, because you're not really looking at
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all of those things when you're racing.
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You don't quite notice the same thing.
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And also, we were only riding during the day. I did a lot of riding during the night in that race.
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So there's a lot of stuff you miss. And it's nice to go back with her and just
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chill in an evening in an Airbnb, have nice dinners and just have a fun time, which it was good.
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It helped me because then when I got back and started doing some races right
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afterwards like end of june sort of july time i
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actually started doing a lot better and like there was a few as i did
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yeah i think you needed to refresh there yeah that's kind of what it was it
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was just rather than stressing about all these races and not being as good or
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like this is like my chance and like messing up my chance or something and then
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yeah there's always some sort of a pitfall and sometimes we just have to learn
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certain lessons and it sets Sets us back a little,
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but only to pick us back up where we need to be.
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Yeah, I know. Unfortunately, sometimes we have to look at that and it can feel
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like it was right there in our grasp, but something kind of slid away.
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But at the same time, we get the opportunity that we need.
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And then it was after that, I think at the end of July, where I looked to go
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in contact and offered support and I was thinking like, why not?
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Like it I don't know just manifest it didn't I wasn't originally planning on going back because,
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like I did so well last year I thought to myself there's only one way I can
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better how I did last year like there was only one possible outcome where I
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could improve and why I did last year and that's a lot of pressure going into
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a race that big so I kind of in my head I was just thinking,
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like why go back yeah I could do better but I don't know.
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So you had the experience at Traka, which I think a lot of people went through that.
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I heard so many people saying, you know, especially because the people that
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were doing the 560 were ready for that distance where, you know,
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usually you excel, keep going, going through the night.
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And then suddenly you have the option to not race or take the 360, which was crazy fast.
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Fast and insane it's so fast it
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was i don't know it's also a lot flatter as well and
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then 560 had a lot of climb i think 560 had over 10 000
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meters of climbing and the 360 was basically
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at a hilly start the heavy middle and then like a few hills at the end and like
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the rest of it was so flat so it was like a completely different style of race
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it was a lot of group riding and does that lend to the speed kind of yeah intensifying
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oh my god it was incredible being Being in a group with like Sarah Sturm and The Speed,
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they were going on the flat, on gravel.
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I've got some like GoPros. Is there so much adrenaline going through your body
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because you're like, I can't believe I'm next to these women and I'm hanging
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in here and I'm pulling my own.
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It must be so surreal. I do. I have some videos, I think, which were from somebody
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who was like following the race.
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And there's videos of me and her.
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And I think this is when I was bridging across with her. So we were taking turns.
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I was like, this is insane.
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Like to be doing this and be taking turns with her and
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she's also a lot shorter in person than i was expecting which
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makes it a lot harder for me to actually get any draft
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i was like okay at least i can get a
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draft of g it's a lot harder when someone he likes and then i crashed out in
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front of her so in my head it's like well the only time she's ever raced with
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me i embarrassed myself by crashing out it's so funny how we all say that those
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types of things but i know in those situations, it feels that way too.
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But sometimes we just cannot avoid it.
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You know how to ride, obviously from how much you're riding, but you have to learn.
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Everybody has to learn. I'm sure she's had epic falls.
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You just cannot avoid. It's not about being the best cyclist out there.
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Fall, crash, it happens.
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And I've had plenty of crashes and stuff. I think it was just because the whole.
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560 thing being and then doing the 360 you can train in so many different areas
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or just say i'm gonna go take a a bike packing trip and i'm gonna check out
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this trail over here it's amazing that you could do that it makes for a better
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training just do most of my training just around here just,
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it's it's you said there's so much riding to do as well it's like i live in
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bristol and it's so close to
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wales which is just absolutely incredible for gravel just the scenery the
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mountains it's a lot quieter in wales as well it's probably about 45 minutes
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to cycle from where i live here and to get into wales and then wow yeah it is
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it is that's nothing on a bike it's nothing i think it's like 20 something k
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and it's right yeah so it basically feels like i am kind of.
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So close to wales and there is some really nice gravel there's some i can just go and do like an
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overnight or something and ride up to just the
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middle of nowhere and like the Brecon Beacons or something
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or go even further or I did an I did an
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ultra back in June I think or beginning of
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July it's the one Molly Weaver runs who again
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is an incredible ultra cyclist that she's doing
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Trans Pyrenees she used to be like a professional road cyclist like
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I can't remember which team she raced for she used to be
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like an insanely good road cyclist and then she kind of I
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think she had a crash and then she sort of finally got back into cycling
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through ultra and like adventure racing and everything
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and she's again she's bristol based so she's
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just one of these incredible women who live in bristol and go out and
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do i don't know transperonese or like transcontinental or she did like she did
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atlas mountain race as well this year and she's just absolutely incredible but
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she ran her own race it was in wales it was from like her sort of family's bike
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shop, which they have up in Ludlow.
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And it's like 620k. I think I did in 36 hours, but it's really rough terrain.
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It's not like smooth gravel. It's 620k with,
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about like 15 000 meters of climbing which is just that's it's an insane amount
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of climbing there's no flat there is a flat bit the flat bit is the last bit
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a flat it's from yeah from.
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590k to 610k there's a flat bit of sort of just road just basically getting
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from like the last final climb to the last two awful climbs that's the only
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bit of flat in the entire route the rest Best of it is just like on my Wahoo,
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it gives you like the red gradients, like the gradient colors.
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There is no climb that isn't a red gradient. It's kind of like there is some
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good gravel on there, but I think the route's kind of meant to be quite challenging.
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So it's sort of a mixture of road and off-road in a weird way where there is quite a lot of on-road.
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So a gravel bike is probably faster than a mountain bike.
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Just you can go a lot faster on the on-road climbs,
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but most of the off-road is a lot lot faster on a mountain bike it's weirdly
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designed where there isn't the right bike for it either bike you're going to
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be either just too slow on the road sections or just really uncomfortable like
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I felt like I got nerve damage in my hands after doing it because it was so
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rough but it was faster on a bike.
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Did you use a mountain bike or a gravel bike? I did on a gravel bike.
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I'm pretty sure it is faster on a gravel bike.
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I know that Santa Cruz and there's, I think, a truck is doing it too.
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A lot of companies are now making a gravel bike that's got like a front shock
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that will, it'll, it's not a lot of travel, but it's. Yeah.
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Yeah. I mean, I've, I actually rode the Stigmata and pretty nice because it
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feels just as snappy as like the regular rigid fork.
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There's a lot of debate on that, you know, like, is it really gravel if you have suspension?
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It's so minimal. It was still, it felt like it. It honestly didn't feel like
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it. You might get a mountain bike and put a road handlebar on it.
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I know. I just don't feel like it wasn't a street handlebar or anything like that.
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I mean, they're still talking about that. I don't think that's going to take
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flight with like these monster bikes. I think it just depends.
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Like each race is different and some races that's going to be useful.
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Some races aren't. I know I had a friend who rides for Canyon and I think they
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have one of their bikes as a fork with suspension.
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I'm not sure which one it is. You love climbing? Because I keep hearing climbing.
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How do you feel about climbing? I do love climbing. I do so much climbing.
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I think last year I did about 500 kilometers worth of like thousand meters of climbing in the year.
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I do a lot of climbing because I do a lot of cycling and I guess it comes with that.
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But I don't know. I love climbing. I'm just not a really, really fast climber.
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I'm a good climber. I'm not like dropping the fast girls on a climb because
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like I'm not the lightest cyclist either.
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So that kind of makes a difference. But I do love climbing and I will do a hilly climb easily.
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Love that. I think you can endure on that. If you can handle the climbs and
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just stay in your rhythm.
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And in your zone, you're good because you can always recover too.
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Yeah. It just depends on the type of race. Like a shorter race,
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it's kind of like if you get dropped on a climb, then it's kind of so much harder
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to come back. You've got to kind of punch it a little bit more there.
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You've got to conserve energy and use it in certain areas.
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I mean, I wouldn't even begin to know with those kind of punchy climbs.
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Oh, my God. And these long, long. It's incredible. Like just going out with
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some of these strong women.
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I can do my bits in certain parts. and then you get to a climb it's like well
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i can try i can try for as long as i can and like hang on but there's going
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to be a point where that's not going to work anymore that's probably when it
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gets us to get really steep but i do i do love climbing and i think things like ultras it's
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nobody's going all out on a climb apart from
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okay you know badlands last year the start people were going all
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out on the climb but this year it was a
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lot calmer i was seriously i was dreading
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the start so much like the bit i was dreading at
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the stem before the race was the first
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10k and the last 80k the
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first 10k because i remember last year it went off like any gravel race i've
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done it just went off full gas and i don't know why i think some of the guys
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got really carried away and they really put it in this is the first main climb
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out of granada and i think i had like the fastest time overall from that start
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just trying to stick in the fastest group and it's It's incredible.
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I stuck with them until I dropped my chain on like a really steep bit.
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I think I'd smacked my mech hanger, I think, when I'd unpacked.
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Like not enough to break it, but just the bender bits, like the limits were
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a bit messed up. So I had nightmares about the whole race.
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But I think that was good for me because it dropped me out of that group and
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I meant I'd paced myself better.
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It was much calmer to start this year. It was, it was chilling.
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It wasn't like a big group starting.
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It's sort of like everyone sort of split off into their own paces a lot easier,
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easier which was nice like I still tried to go relatively hard
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at the start just to I just didn't want to be on the back foot because I just
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remember with these races like I don't want to be on the back foot from the
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start I prefer to go a bit too hard and then just deal with the consequences
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rather than not go hard enough and then just feel like I'm chasing for so long
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and that was kind of But my idea was like, okay.
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Everyone else might try and do this more sensibly and try and pace themselves if i,
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know i can recover from this even if i do go too hard like
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i know i'm not going to put myself into to the red to a point where you're
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not going to be able to recover i know i can do that so i just need to be able
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to push hard enough to get ahead and then just try and stay stay ahead basically
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but then i remember danny and brad they were doing in a pair and they obviously
22:54
sort of had the same idea so i was like riding pretty hard and then danny would
22:58
come past and like i know she She was racing in a pair and everything,
23:01
but I'm still there thinking like, I still don't want her to beat me.
23:04
Like I know she's, I'm still racing her. Luckily with a pair,
23:08
you've got twice the mechanicals to worry about.
23:10
And I think Brad had a mechanical fairly early on. I don't know if it was a
23:13
puncture or something. The moment they went, I was like, okay,
23:15
I can calm down a bit. I can try and pace this a bit better.
23:18
So what did you do differently? Because I know you did last year and then I
23:23
read that you changed a little bit of your strategy and you won this year and
23:28
it was on the top 10 overall.
23:30
Yeah, a lot of it's just more experience. I've done a lot more of those type
23:34
of ultras in the past year of sort of like two, maybe three day long ultras.
23:39
So not just like week long ones. So ones where it is very intense,
23:43
where it is like no stop time.
23:46
You can't stop for three hours to sleep or something because you're not going
23:48
to be able to be competitive if you stop for three hours to sleep.
23:51
I had more experience in that regards.
23:53
I think last year as well, it was one of the first times I did that sort of
23:57
ultra. So I did sleep on the first night, not for long, I slept like 40 minutes.
24:01
But that, it dropped me back quite a bit behind Cynthia, just that one stop.
24:08
And this was when she was ahead of me as well. So she'd overtaken me about 200k into the race, I think.
24:14
So there was one woman who was like way ahead of us at the start and she ended
24:17
up scratching at the highest point.
24:20
I think she got caught in a storm and got really cold and really wet.
24:23
I can't remember her name, but she ended up scratching there. So,
24:27
I was never in front. I was never first, like at any point in that race.
24:31
I was always either second or third or then second again.
24:36
And once Cynthia overtook me going through Gore, well, after Gore on like the
24:40
climb up to Cala Alto and like the first night, she overtook me again on that climb.
24:45
And then I kind of wasn't sure how I was racing it. It was strange last year.
24:49
I was a lot less prepared.
24:51
I didn't have a plan. I was kind of just going out and just going hard
24:56
and yeah trying to think about like this year i was so much
24:59
more prepared i had memorized where every single
25:02
fountain was in every town i went through like i don't know what i'm going to
25:05
do with that knowledge if you drop me in some random spanish town find the fountain
25:10
like that because i was like i do not want to waste time getting into a fountain
25:13
and not getting into a town and not being able to find where the water fountain
25:16
is so i was like so i was spending like
25:20
my lunch breaks at work and in the weeks leading up to badlands basically just like
25:25
finding them on street view and everything's like okay so the route goes through
25:28
there so like when i get into that i just need to turn left here and i can find
25:31
the fountain i can fill my bottles up there and that's where that shop is and
25:35
i can do that and it opens at this time it closes at this time it's like i i
25:39
did so much prep for this race and i did none of that last year like last year i.
25:44
I don't know, like I didn't, I was, I struggled to find water last year.
25:47
Like I just, some reason I just couldn't find water.
25:51
I just was really bad. So that's kind of what I was going for.
25:54
I was like, that's going to catch me out. I do not want to be dehydrated on this.
25:57
And there was only one point I think where I was close to really struggling
26:01
with water. And that was the end of like the desert section in Garaffi.
26:05
So there's like, you go through Garaffi, like the town, you do this big,
26:09
awful, awful steep climb.
26:11
And then you descend into the desert it again and i think from there for about
26:15
80k there's not really any resupply points you're just in the desert and i think
26:20
towards that just before the climb out of the desert i was like.
26:24
I'm on my last bottle and i've got like a tiny bit of this last bottle and i've
26:28
still got 20k to go i should have like stuffed like an extra bottle in like
26:31
a pocket or something and i think,
26:34
it's like six seven k before gore i was going around
26:37
this dirt track that they just routers on to and
26:40
there was this little girl who'd obviously her and her
26:42
parents had set up this little sort of stall of just like cold water
26:45
bottles perfect oh my god i came around
26:48
this corner and she'd sort of put it on the weird side it was like on the blind
26:51
side so you couldn't really see it until you went round and then i spotted out
26:55
the corner of my eye as i was going quite fast i slammed on my brakes and she
26:58
ran up to me and handed me stuff i was like you need to work on your bottle
27:02
handoffs but thank you so much and then i mean she just seemed so happy to be able
27:08
to help like that because this was like yeah 6k and they were just handing our
27:11
bottles to any of the riders who came past i think danny and
27:14
brad had just just got bottles from them as well because i caught them at that
27:18
point and it was it was only 6k to go but i was still it felt like ages because
27:22
gore felt like a sort of oasis that i'd been through there last year but like
27:27
last year i didn't stop in gore
27:29
which was insane but i think because the route was different last year
27:32
i'd had a resupply maybe about an hour or so before gore so i kind of i just
27:37
went through it because I didn't need to.
27:39
But this year it was, it'd been so long since I'd had any water and it was before
27:43
the long night section. So I thought, okay.
27:46
I'll stop here, get some food, fill up my bottles in the fountains,
27:50
cool myself down because I was absolutely buoyant.
27:52
So I went over to the fountains. I basically just drenched myself because I
27:55
was so hot and regretted that 15 minutes later when I realized,
28:00
okay, it's starting to get dark.
28:02
And I've just completely soaked myself. And I started to feel cold just standing around.
28:07
I was like, I've gone from 42 degrees in
28:10
the desert to now feeling cold within like two hours and
28:13
I've got to now ride through the night over the
28:16
highest point on the route like 2,200 meters or
28:19
something it's like is this a great idea maybe not so I
28:23
went into the shop and I got some got some foods and
28:26
not amazing the biggest fan of small Spanish
28:29
town supermarkets they don't have the best selection
28:32
of food that I like oh my god trying to
28:35
do it vegetarian as well it's just like a bit of a nightmare when
28:38
I first did my first few ultras I tried to do them vegan as
28:41
well and just like kudos to anyone who can do
28:43
that it's so stressful especially if you're trying to race race
28:46
it if you just ride if you're riding it and you you're not
28:49
stressed about going to shops you're like going to stop shops and you
28:52
can chill but when you're like race racing it and you're sort of trying to go
28:57
into a shop and get out as quickly as possible it's too much it's it's something
29:01
i can't deal with so i go at least with vegetarian i can sort of still do this
29:05
even if i'm just eating boring stuff so i went into that shop and got some i
29:09
can't remember what i got just
29:10
boring food or something I think I got an ice lolly as well which was nice but
29:14
I needed at that point I needed something like that and as I left the shop Svenja
29:21
came into the town so she had been chasing me so so she wasn't too far behind
29:25
me she was a lot closer than I was expecting basically.
29:28
I'd been in Gore for like less than 10 minutes and I came out and she was there I was like okay,
29:32
Were you like, I've got to get back on my bike now? Yeah. It would stuff everything
29:36
in my pockets and in my bag. I was like, I'll eat on the bike.
29:40
I don't know how fast she's going to be in Go. She could literally just walk
29:44
into the shop, grab stuff, and be gone in five minutes.
29:47
So I was just thinking, like, I could have lost a lot of time just,
29:49
like, faffing about in that shop or the water fountain. So I was just like, okay, I'm going now.
29:55
Which, I don't know, Go is an amazing place. Like, the atmosphere they have
29:58
for the race is incredible.
29:59
It's like a party you go into there. you you come into the town people were
30:03
like shouting my name it's like how the hell do they know my name obviously
30:05
we just look at the dots or spoken to other people it's like this is incredible
30:09
and then I sort of left and there's a really nice climb out of goal like this road climb,
30:14
and you sort of go around and the sun was setting as well so I
30:16
had the sun setting of this really nice town and then
30:19
it started to get cool and I was feeling so much happier that it was going to be not
30:23
40 degrees overnight because I had struggled a lot
30:25
in the heat like I was impressed that I actually could
30:28
somehow deal with that heat because I've never been in temperatures that
30:31
hot so being able to actually ride through
30:35
that temperature and be fine in it was like a
30:38
big surprise to me yeah I guess you
30:40
don't know how you're going to respond oh my god like 40 yeah it was 42 degrees
30:45
that was the hottest that's pretty drastic to drop like that it plays some tricks
30:50
on the body so you do have to make sure you're hydrated and eating enough because
30:55
dropping Stopping your body temperature like that can affect you quite a lot,
30:59
especially if you're just constantly pushing.
31:02
Yeah, I had to be really careful about electrolytes as well because I was just,
31:05
I knew that was what was going to get me out.
31:07
Like I could probably get enough water, but I basically took like electrolytes, like salt.
31:12
Yes, that's the best thing to do. Yeah, the mix is you put in your bottles or
31:16
something, you have to drink a whole bottle of water to get all those electrolytes,
31:20
which you don't always want to do.
31:22
Maybe you're trying to conserve your water a bit because you go long in a
31:25
section or just one i don't like when i'm really thirsty i
31:29
just i can't stand the thought of flavored water when
31:32
i'm really thirsty i just want plain water i just want water i know
31:35
too much of these mixes sometimes it starts to
31:38
make you kind of nauseated i thought okay i don't know exactly like how much
31:42
i sweat out or anything but it's like this is this has got to be fine like it
31:46
can't i'm not i'm doing this for two days i probably hope i mean you can definitely
31:50
mess up your body doing that for two days but like Like I thought at this point,
31:54
I'm sweating quite a lot out.
31:55
If I'm taking too much salts, it's not going to really matter at this point.
31:58
I was like every hour, I just have a notification on my Wahoo saying, take another salt.
32:03
Again, this is another thing that I was so much more prepared this year because
32:06
I had planned ahead. Like I did not do that last year. Yeah.
32:11
I'd learned so much that I just basically moved everything I'd learned from
32:15
last year to this year, and then just kind of got lucky and nailed it.
32:21
So many things that could have gone wrong. I still punctured 8k from the finish.
32:25
Last year, I punctured 20k from the finish.
32:27
So I'd like, I had improved by an extra 12k.
32:29
So maybe, maybe another time I can make it to the whole, like the whole end as well.
32:35
I think it was a combination of luck, being really prepared.
32:38
It's a lot more experience. experience absolutely loved it especially
32:41
knowing you know you've done it before and you
32:44
you put so much work into
32:47
being prepared but tell
32:50
me a little bit about your training schedule i know you have a full-time job
32:55
and you are training 20 30 hours a week i mean are you a super woman tell us
33:01
what what are you doing a little bit a little bit well i kind of like i have so i I work a nine to five,
33:09
but it's kind of like, it is just nine to five.
33:11
I don't have to do any work outside of work. Once I leave the office, it's fine.
33:14
So I tend to just like do a couple of hours in the morning.
33:18
It's really not that structured.
33:21
It's weird. It's basically done on vibes. I don't want to say that.
33:27
Depending on how I feel, I'll go out and do intervals or I'll go out and just do like a chill ride,
33:32
or I'll go out and do a social ride with friends, or I'll go out and do
33:35
a massive 16 hour ride at the weekend on
33:38
like a Saturday or something and then do it it's not
33:41
structured in the sense that I have a coach or anything like I don't I
33:44
can't afford a coach or something but it's yeah
33:48
so I do get a lot of miles in I feel like that's definitely
33:51
helped a lot in just especially with ultras being able to
33:55
be on the bike for that long day on day out for the fact that I've done like
34:00
40,000 kilometers a year for like the past five six years like that's just a
34:05
lot of riding and it's just kind of what i've done for like my entire adult
34:09
life it's just right that's experience on the bike you have to share about the story with your brother,
34:15
with how you got back into psych please please please i love it so i wanted you to share it,
34:22
so as a kid like my dad was really into cycling we lived in the countryside
34:27
it was nice we do some mountain biking and that was that i kind of moved away
34:31
a bit at school senior school i went I got really into rowing,
34:35
like rowing was my sport. That's what I did throughout senior school.
34:38
Up until the university, rowing was all I did.
34:41
University was a weird experience where I struggled a lot with my mental health.
34:46
I mean, I was bad again coming through senior school, but I think moving to
34:50
university, I didn't have any friends at the start because it was like a completely
34:52
different place. I was quite isolated where I was living.
34:55
And yeah, my mental health took a big dive. So I didn't really do much around university sport wise.
35:02
I commuted by bike, Like, basically, that was it.
35:04
And then kind of when I was starting to get better, my brother got me back into cycling.
35:10
And I was quite big into rock climbing at the time, sort of.
35:13
That's what I did when I was on placement. And I was doing that three, four times a week.
35:18
And I introduced him to rock climbing and he introduced me back into cycling.
35:21
I think because of that, we kind of switched and he went all into rock climbing.
35:26
He does like these big mountaineering adventures and massive treks and does
35:31
like big multi-pitch climbs.
35:33
And I obviously went all in on
35:35
cycling like fully in on cycling like as far
35:39
into cycling as anyone can go and it
35:41
was it was weird that my brother gave me back into that
35:44
because I remember the first ride he took me out on I hated it I threw up halfway
35:48
through it it was like it wasn't even 30k it was like a 20k ride and I remember
35:52
just feeling so bad halfway through it and then for some reason I just ended
35:56
up doing more and then doing more and more and then just like building up and
36:00
building up. And then, yeah.
36:02
And then COVID happened and I just did insane amounts of cycling because I had nothing else to do.
36:07
During 2020, I did 53,000 kilometers, like 33,000 miles.
36:13
Wow. I think it was about, I think it averaged about 100 miles a day, I think.
36:20
That's why I said it was so important to tell that story because you were,
36:24
you were meant to be cycling.
36:25
There's something that was calling you to the bike. yeah it was
36:28
a weird sort of i didn't have much else to do because there wasn't
36:31
much work i was doing and i didn't really have a social life
36:34
that year either so i just rode my bike
36:37
and just i explored so much of yorkshire and
36:40
where i used to live i'd go out and do like a 400k ride
36:43
and like do the coast to coast to coast is what we call it yeah
36:46
that was i loved doing it like it was a good year for
36:49
just riding my bikes the weather was also really good and i
36:51
still just kind of carried it on even when I got back into regular life
36:54
I just do it at the weekends or it'd be
36:58
split up into like two rides a day like a
37:00
ride in the morning a ride in the evening or when I was working part-time
37:03
I could still fit in big rides so it's kind of just yeah
37:06
it's been my life for like my entire adult life it's
37:09
kind of just obviously moving into ultras maybe like the natural
37:12
progression just I would say I do
37:15
I do love the short races I love short gravel races but I'm
37:18
less competitive at them I think that's a lot more intensity like
37:22
strength and everything but if it's like a four-hour race and
37:26
they are fun and I have been competitive at them it just depends
37:29
on luck and how I'm feeling but and they are
37:31
really fun because riding around like a fast
37:34
gravel course with like these incredibly strong women
37:37
it's like it's the most fun I've ever had on a bike when I.
37:40
Did the when I did the gravel earth final last year it was it was so much fun
37:43
because it was the first one of those gravel earth races I'd done and I knew
37:47
a few of the people there but like I met so many people there and made so many
37:52
good friends just at one race like that and then you've got to do this incredible
37:56
course with some really fast.
37:58
Like really, really fast girls. Oh my God. I just wanted to do more of it.
38:03
And then the field's just gone stronger and stronger in the past year and a bit. And it always will.
38:07
It just keeps getting stronger. You keep getting amazed.
38:10
God, every single time I do one of those races, it's like, there's these news
38:13
people I've never heard of. And they're just like, where the hell have you come
38:16
from? And how are you so strong?
38:18
It's like part of it's like, oh my gosh, now I got to work harder.
38:21
And part of it is like, I'm so amazed.
38:23
This is wonderful to see so many women out here and so
38:25
many strong women and the community the same
38:28
with ultras as well it feels like every time i do
38:31
one of these ultras there's somebody like cynthia turns
38:34
up or svenya or something like svenya obviously won
38:37
unbound excel this year and i've i
38:40
was i was so worried about her going into it because
38:43
i've raced her three or four times
38:45
before and every single time she's beaten me but these have been
38:48
on like 100 mile to 200 mile races so
38:52
i i know she's a really really really strong
38:55
cyclist but she'd never done a multi-day ultra before
38:58
like she the longest race she'd ever done it was around excel
39:01
which was about 24 hours it's a different animal exactly
39:05
so i was like okay i have experience here she doesn't i can hopefully use that
39:10
to my advantage like if i can use the stuff i know i can try and just like build
39:15
off that and just hopefully do better because she doesn't have that experience
39:18
i wasn't 100 sure she'd be like the closest competition i'm just like okay i know.
39:23
About her and I have raced her before so like she's the
39:25
only one I can prepare for it was amazing racing with
39:28
her again and it was also kind of nice to beat her
39:31
and Danny who again it's just people who beat me
39:34
every single time I've raced them so it's kind of like haha you're in my world
39:38
now they're on bad lands that you beat them so in bad lands I beat them but
39:42
like every other time I've raced them they beat me so I was kind of like okay
39:45
I've tried beating you in your your world but But now you've come into my world
39:49
and this is something I do because neither of them had done like a multi-day ultra riff off.
39:54
I know you're really strong and I know you still pretty know what you're doing,
39:57
but there's so much you learn just doing this race.
40:00
If Dani does another one, I think if she had done it on her own,
40:03
without Brad, she would have been so much closer.
40:06
Because the thing is, when you're doing it with a pair, you're going as slow as the slowest person.
40:11
And not that Brad's slow or anything, but everyone's going to be the slowest
40:14
person at one point during that race.
40:16
As if you would never try being a pair? I'd give it a go.
40:20
If I found somebody who'd sort of want to do a pair, like I've got a few friends
40:24
in Bristol who might be up for it, I'd love to give it a go.
40:28
Like I I'm not quite sure because I've
40:31
done bikepacking trips with people and that's a
40:35
completely different thing there's a lot of compromise in there and
40:38
you have to give up a lot of that control in a
40:40
sense too yeah I don't know I may do it
40:43
it's it's nothing I've planned yet if I go
40:46
back to Badlands I need to think of something else to do I'd like to go
40:48
back and do something different maybe doing a pair would be
40:51
how I'd do it next time but it's not currently on
40:54
my plans what's in the plans are you willing to talk about
40:57
obviously i've mentioned the 560 and the tracker because
41:01
that's again going to be quite a big event if it goes
41:03
and goes ahead this year because they put so much.
41:04
Music.
41:06
Effort into like the marketing and like like publicity around it it's going
41:10
to be a big event it's going to have really big names there again so that's
41:14
obviously an early season it's like may isn't it it's quite early in the year
41:18
and then i have a few things that i'm kind of thinking about doing depending
41:21
on sponsors i've got some meetings
41:23
and stuff i I want to sort things out before I make some big plans.
41:26
I just want to do different things. And going back to Badlands a third year
41:29
in a row would just be a bit.
41:31
I would love to just because I love the atmosphere and the people there.
41:35
And it's kind of nice going there, having people know me now.
41:37
Last year, I went and nobody knew who I was at the start.
41:40
I walked through that. I think I knew Bruno and that was it.
41:43
And he introduced me to some people. And I think, but then this year I went
41:47
and so many people knew who I was and wanted to say hi.
41:50
Or like even if i hadn't actually met them myself they'd
41:54
like follow me on instagram or on strava or
41:57
whatever or just like knew me from the race last year and it
41:59
was such a strange experience going back there and feel like okay people actually
42:02
know me and like want to talk to me and say hi and i
42:06
feel popular and i don't know
42:09
it's it's such a nice community like even just the organizers when
42:13
when i turned up like 8 a.m something
42:16
so basically how i had to ride from the airport in
42:19
malaga to granada again this year because
42:21
like the flight gets in at like 1 a.m there's no
42:24
trains running at that time i don't want to hang around in malaga for six hours
42:27
for the first train so i just thought i'll build up my bike and i'll ride to
42:31
granada it's like 140k up to granada but it's also like it's flat for the first
42:36
40k because you're just riding along the coast and then you suddenly go from
42:38
like sea level up to a thousand meters because you just go up it's 140k with
42:43
like 2 000 meters of climbing i got there at.
42:46
8 a.m 9 a.m or something and david the
42:50
guy who organizes it was there and he like immediately
42:53
saw me and came up gave up and like gave me a
42:55
hug and said hi it's so great to have you here and then i
42:58
just kept meeting more and more people whole morning yeah like
43:02
the people i knew from like float chair were there and like
43:04
the athletic affair people at maya was there and just like oh
43:08
it's so nice to actually know people this year yeah known from
43:11
like other gravel races had turned up like amity was
43:14
there it was so much nicer being there for a
43:17
few days before the race this year and opposed to
43:20
last year where i turned up the day before the race after having
43:23
them doing the same ride from malaga so i'd given myself an extra day to rest
43:27
which if i if that's personal growth if anything i agree you kind of need that
43:32
rest day right before that makes a big difference you've shared so much about
43:36
feeling the inspiration and the community support how does it feel when
43:42
you actually finish and you go home?
43:45
It was weird this time because last year I finished at 6am because the route was slightly shorter.
43:50
It was, it was like 750k. Like this year it was 40k longer.
43:53
And it was also a lot more off-road this year. So it was, it took me an extra
43:57
three hours to do it this year, even though I think I was like faster pace.
44:00
I was a stronger cyclist this year.
44:02
So I finished at 6am last year, which was dark. And I think there were two people at the finish.
44:07
I think David was at the finish for me and somebody with an incredibly bright ring light,
44:11
who was like interviewing people at the finish which was not
44:14
great because like the last 10k of last year all
44:17
my bike lights had died apart from one like diddy little
44:20
head torch i had so i had to do the last 10k with like virtually
44:23
zero visibility which was
44:26
not great because it's still quite a bit of off-road and then it's a long descent
44:29
so my eyes are like adjusted to pitch black at that point and then i turn up
44:34
at the finish line somebody with this brightest ring light i've ever seen just
44:37
comes up and starts interviewing me so in the video it's like an interview with
44:40
me in that film where I am just like squinting and just cannot see a single bit.
44:45
But again, there was like two people. And you're sleep deprived. Yeah.
44:49
But yeah, there were like two people there. So it was, I mean,
44:51
ultras are always like that where you do the hardest thing you've ever done
44:55
and you get to the finish line and it's like.
44:58
Two three people there right and that's it it's not
45:00
like it's kind of strange right because you're in your
45:03
own mind you're you feel this such this accomplishment a
45:07
sense of self-worth so it's kind of like it's always a bit anticlimactic right
45:11
you don't really think about that during the race and then this year it was
45:14
different so obviously obviously not like crowds of people but there were people
45:18
that lena from voloccio maya was there there was my brother who'd been filming
45:22
he'd um And he came and some film for a project of his that he wants to do.
45:27
So he basically been hiding in bushes and flying drones to fill me over the two days.
45:31
So it was cool to actually finally see him. Cause I think I only caught him
45:34
out the corner of my eye a few times during that race.
45:36
But so he was there, but he was still kind of like trying to keep back cause
45:39
he was trying to get footage.
45:40
So he was there with a camera from a distance. So it was like,
45:42
kind of nice to see you, but I still pretend you're not there.
45:46
Congratulations. Like run up and give me a hug.
45:50
Exactly. because there were so many
45:52
other people as well so like david was there and like
45:56
amity had scratched from the race i think on the like
45:59
the first morning like the like the day after i think she
46:02
caught heat stroke but she's managed to ride somewhere
46:05
and got a lift at the finish line so she was there so
46:08
she came up and gave me a hug and like she was also so nice because
46:11
she offered me like her bed and a shower which i really
46:13
needed because i couldn't sleep like the best thing
46:17
in in the world it was so nice to like have good friends
46:20
just like there at the finish line i actually felt like
46:23
like there were people there for me
46:26
this time even though they were there for things and everything.
46:29
But it felt nice to actually have people to finish line unlike
46:32
last year i was like i turned up it was pitch black there was
46:35
nobody there and i went and slept on a floor in a in a village
46:38
hall sort of the ultra you were doing
46:40
that for yourself it's your own journey me yes you
46:44
said your brother was there are we
46:47
going to see a documentary about your
46:50
racing is that something who wants to do like like
46:53
a 10 minute long he's got quite a bit of footage it's a
46:56
project he wanted to do for sort of a outdoor film
46:59
festival and he kind of wanted to do it on me because like he's
47:02
like obviously he knows about my cycling and
47:05
knows about these adventure races and everything so when i
47:08
basically found out about badlands i was like hey do you
47:11
want to do this and so he ended up dropping a lot of things and
47:15
flew down to malaga and rented a car
47:17
and he brought a friend who knew how to fly a drone when
47:20
i'd been doing all my prep for the race i'd also been sort of planning filming locations
47:24
so i'll be going this bit looks really cool on camera make sure you film here
47:29
or like that's going to take a while for me to get from there to there so like
47:33
so i have no idea timing wise it's like okay i don't know how fast i'm going
47:36
to be this year or mechanicals or whatever but like you've got the dots you
47:39
can like follow Follow me on the tracking.
47:41
But during the race, I'm not going to be thinking about you.
47:45
I don't care if I'm not at the right place at the right time.
47:48
He was saying, oh, this is really cool, this sand. If you get to there at sunrise,
47:52
they'll be amazed. It's like, no.
47:55
I'm not going to wait there for a sunrise shot. You can get a sunrise shot of
47:58
some other cyclist going down there. I don't care.
48:01
I'm racing this. Yeah, you cannot say hi. If I'm crying by the side of the road,
48:06
you can't offer me anything.
48:08
You need to film like a nature documentary. If I'm being eaten by a lion,
48:13
you need to film from a distance.
48:15
Because that'll be counted as support if you came and saved me.
48:18
Right. Even if you came over and offered me a Band-Aid or something.
48:23
Exactly. Just let the lion have me. This is more important.
48:27
Well, do let us know when the film comes out. We'd love to see it and share with everyone.
48:34
Some of the drone shots are incredible. So getting back to like real life,
48:38
it was weird. So I went straight back to work.
48:41
I flew back the next morning and was back at work,
48:44
the morning after that basically so I had no chill time it was traveling and then back at work,
48:50
and work it was just like yeah they
48:53
sort of said like oh congratulations and I said like I'd won or something like
48:56
that but it was just that it was like nobody really understood what
48:59
the race was yeah they don't they don't understand that aspect
49:02
of it I mean you won't get that kind of recognition in
49:05
that same way even if you share a story with them it won't be
49:08
the same connection same people who'd be like absolutely mind
49:11
blown that you'd cycled 40 miles or something so if
49:15
you said you'd cycled 500 miles
49:18
they're just going to be like what i don't even drive my car that
49:20
far or something like that but then there was a film one of my friends runs
49:25
this sort of film night they do occasionally where they they do cycling related
49:30
films and uses like a charity fundraising for the people who do the trails in
49:34
ashton court and lee woods like a cycling charity basically that help people
49:38
get into mountain biking.
49:39
So there was a, like a community cycling event on that evening. So I went there.
49:44
I decided to, I know friends that are going to be there. I have some really good friends there.
49:49
And I went there and oh my God, that was just like incredible.
49:52
Like the amount of people who came up and congratulated me and gave me hugs
49:55
and gave me a shout out at the start or.
49:59
After having a day at work where it just like it had not happened
50:02
to then go to this place where I had like I don't know
50:05
like 50 people like congratulating me on the
50:08
race made up for everything like yeah that's that's the champagne toast right
50:12
there even if you don't get that when you finish the race it's like sleeping
50:17
in a comfortable bed after and then finally just getting to go back to that
50:21
community it feels like everything's all worth it right it is so So it was just sort of a great,
50:28
these are my people and this is where I go on my support.
50:31
And same with like the Friday morning ride I do with like a load of the girls in the city.
50:35
We just go out and just 40k loop and then we go to have a pastry and have a coffee before work.
50:41
It's like one of my favorite things to do on a Friday morning.
50:43
It just like sets me up for the day. Your life, you put so much into that and it's impactful.
50:48
These people, they know me, they ride with me, they see how much I ride,
50:52
they see how much I train.
50:54
And so it's kind of nice. A lot of them, obviously, I had spoken to about how
50:57
disappointed I was in the start of my year.
51:00
I was struggling as well because I'd been unemployed for about six months up
51:03
until June or something.
51:05
So I struggled a lot with my mental health around that as well.
51:08
So I was basically just focused on training at that point because that was kind
51:11
of what was getting me through things.
51:13
It sometimes does help that, right? Doesn't that kind of help at least to have
51:17
a focus on something, especially with mental health?
51:20
As long as you have some sort of outlet in that sense that kind of makes you feel better.
51:25
And there's some support there, it can make such a difference.
51:28
It was nice to feel like it finally paid off.
51:31
So they were so happy for me. And the groups I went to, they gave me a shout-out,
51:35
like the mountain biking one that I do, and it was like, oh, I love the city.
51:40
I love the people in the city. And just to be able to do something like that, yeah.
51:46
So that's kind of how it felt. It was like, amazing finish.
51:50
Nothing at work and then just like no i actually
51:53
love it here right and that that's what i
51:56
got from just our conversation in the past you love
51:59
bristol you feel at home it is it is it is
52:02
definitely the community that makes i mean the city's itself great but it
52:05
is the people here and the fact that is a city where there
52:09
is so many incredible cyclists who just want to do things
52:12
i want to be so supportive and just like this weekend i'm
52:15
going on a bunkhouse trip with a load of girls from the club where we're going up to
52:18
the bunkhouse it's like it's
52:21
100 miles up to like the middle of wales we booked
52:24
a bunkhouse out for i think 16 or 20 of us i went
52:27
there on a saturday sort of rode over from shrewsbury had like
52:30
a bit of a recce of the course and then stayed in a nice b&b but just
52:33
like read a book and just had a nice chill thing and then
52:36
i did this race it was okay it was a short race i think i was
52:38
like came like 11th or something but it was like it was
52:41
like a short fast race that I just kind of wanted to do
52:44
because it was local and I was okay I've had my big
52:47
sort of win of the season I'm just gonna enjoy this
52:50
I'm gonna ride with some fun this has been
52:53
so much fun talking to you I really
52:56
enjoy talking to you too as well you're so easygoing and have such a wonderful
53:01
outlook on everything I did want to say thank you for joining us today so much
53:06
it's been such a joy and pleasure and we truly appreciate your contribution
53:10
to the ultra gender and cycling community you're a major force to be reckoned with a true inspiration.
53:16
And we are going to continue to follow your path
53:19
we love that you do everything on your own terms we
53:22
congratulate you on all your success and your hard work we recognize that you're
53:28
amazing can't wait to see what's coming next if i'm in gerona at some point
53:33
i'll definitely have to say hi please please reach out i'm always i'm always
53:38
looking for excuses to go to gerona i do so many
53:40
races in spain it's like it's easy to get to but they're also it's
53:43
just such a nice country i'm definitely looking for my excuses to
53:46
go back well i'm here so just send me a
53:48
message you know have a wonderful evening and
53:52
a great weekend ahead bye that's all for today's episode we want to thank you
53:59
our listeners for tuning in your support means everything to us if you enjoyed
54:04
this episode please consider subscribing leaving a review and sharing it with your.
54:09
Music.