Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / MISSING TEXAS MOM SUZANNE SIMPSON’S DNA ‘FOUND ON HUBBY’S SAW’

Transcript

MISSING TEXAS MOM SUZANNE SIMPSON’S DNA ‘FOUND ON HUBBY’S SAW’ · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, missing Texas mom, luxury realtor.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Suzanne Simpson's DNA just found on her husband's hand held
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: reciprocating saw.
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: Let that sink in a moment.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: Her DNA is on her husband's hand held reciprocating saw.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: Why Imancy Grace, this is crime Stories. Thank you for
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: being with us.
• 0:36
  Speaker 3: They met in college at the University of Texas.
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: Nice guy, charismatic, engaging.
• 0:42
  Speaker 3: You know, Suzanne was a little tiny thing.
• 0:46
  Speaker 4: But for Suzanne, it wasn't perfect time.
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: It's just tragic.
• 0:50
  Speaker 5: Man.
• 0:50
  Speaker 3: I can't even imagine she didn't deserve that at all.
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: If just the thought of Suzanne's body out decomposing in
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: a trash site or a.
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: Disposal site is getting worse.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: The hand held reciprocating saul belonging to the husband absolutely
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: hass Anne Simpson's DNA on it? Why why would that
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: be there? Take a listen to what the almost pdchief
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: had to say.
• 1:20
  Speaker 6: So we're holding out hope that maybe, you know, maybe
• 1:23
  Speaker 6: she's trying to be away from the home, to get
• 1:25
  Speaker 6: away from that situation. That's not totally uncommon, but what
• 1:29
  Speaker 6: is uncommon. What is unusual is that this was a
• 1:32
  Speaker 6: woman who worked and was very dependable and loved her
• 1:36
  Speaker 6: children and was always in contact with her children and
• 1:39
  Speaker 6: her family and her friends. We would love for her
• 1:42
  Speaker 6: to be alive. Obviously, there's nothing concrete that says she's
• 1:44
  Speaker 6: not alive. And again I owe it to the family.
• 1:47
  Speaker 6: We all owe it to the family to speak of
• 1:50
  Speaker 6: her in a way where other people have been found,
• 1:53
  Speaker 6: like I said, injured and distressed, lost, troubled, hiding away,
• 1:58
  Speaker 6: all of those things are possible.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: Our friends at WAI joining me in Ulster panel to
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: make sense of what we are learning right now.
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: This is not the update I wanted to report to
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: you tonight.
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: For first out to Zachary Taylor Wright joining us, a
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: trending digital reporter with my essay my san Antonio. Zachary,
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: thank you so much for being with us. Explain to
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: me how the husband's reciprocating saw.
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: You know what?
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: Just pause, Zachary. I want to hear everything you've got
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: to say. But for people that don't know what a
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: reciprocating saw is, let me go to doctor Kendall Crown's
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: joining us, the chief medical examiner in Tarrett County. That's
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: Fort Worth, the Texas jurisdiction esteemed lecturer at the Burnett
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: School of Medicine TCU, Doctor Kendall Crown, thank you so
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: much for being with us. Before I get into your
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: usual topics, and that is the discovery of bodies. What
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: you can tell from bodies, what you can tell from
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: an autopsy. Could you explain and demonstrate what is a
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: reciprocating saw?
• 3:02
  Speaker 7: Certainly so. Reciprocating saws are saws that use a blade.
• 3:06
  Speaker 7: They actually have mine here is a large, fairly large saw.
• 3:11
  Speaker 7: It has a blade that goes backwards in the forwards,
• 3:14
  Speaker 7: which is the reciprocating.
• 3:15
  Speaker 5: Movement of the saw.
• 3:17
  Speaker 7: And they can be used to cut through metal, wood, bone, tissue,
• 3:21
  Speaker 7: you name it. They use them in the meat cutting
• 3:24
  Speaker 7: industry to cut apart cattle.
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: Hold on, let me see that again. Could you turn
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: that on one more time, Doctor Kimlin.
• 3:30
  Speaker 8: Crown's sure.
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: Jeff Horny is joining me, right, I heard it. Thank you.
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: Jeff Horny is with us right now, joining us from
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: San Antonio, longtime friend of both Susanne and Brad Simpson,
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: her husband, Jeff Horny.
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: I don't know how you can sit there and look
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: at that saw.
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: It looks like a giant version of the electric knife
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: people use at Thanksgiving and Christmas to cut a turkey
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: or a roast or something.
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: Sure he knew what he was doing. Look at that, knowing, Suzanne.
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: It's terrible, sad and disgusting actually, And he's a hunter.
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: You know, if you've used one of those saws, you
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: know that it's not real clean. It doesn't just make
• 4:21
  Speaker 3: a beautiful clean cut. And yes, I saw him in
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: the courtroom and he looked like he'd been doing push
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: ups for months.
• 4:29
  Speaker 5: You know.
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: He looks like a thug is what he looks like,
• 4:31
  Speaker 3: what he's turned out to be.
• 4:33
  Speaker 7: So it's sad.
• 4:35
  Speaker 9: Man.
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: We were talking to Jeff Horny, who's been a longtime
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: friend of not only Suzanne, the missing mom, but the husband.
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: Zachar Chell are right.
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: Thank you for holding a trending digital reporter with my
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: sa My san Antonio. Zachary, again, thank you for being
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: with us. I want to backtrack just a moment. You know,
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: I just heard Jeff Horny state that the husband, who
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: is presumed innocent under the law, these are just allegations
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: right now, Zachary.
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: I don't know how him.
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: Being a hunter has anything to do with his wife's
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: DNA being on a reciprocating so oh, I do I
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: do know the.
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: Connection he made.
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: He was making the connection that the saw could be
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: let me just say, contaminated or still caked with animal
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: detrit us from prior hunting trips.
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: I don't know a nice way to say it. That's
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: why I'm searching for the words.
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: But Zachary Taylor right, tell me how and where this
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: reciprocating saw it was discovered.
• 5:39
  Speaker 8: So the reciprocating saw was discovered in Brett's possession and
• 5:43
  Speaker 8: their believing their family home, but it was hidden away,
• 5:48
  Speaker 8: which is part of his accusations against him, is that
• 5:52
  Speaker 8: he attempted to conceal it from investigators. And of course
• 5:55
  Speaker 8: the DNA did link back to Susannah.
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: Zachary, you stated that the DNA is found on Simpson's saw,
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: but where was the saw?
• 6:06
  Speaker 8: The recif forgetting saw was found in Brad Simpson's.
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: Toolbox, you know, Zachary Tailor right?
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: Joining us from my san Antonio, Zachary, I understand that
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: the husband, Brad Simpson, tried to hide the saw.
• 6:22
  Speaker 8: Absolutely, So that's part of the accusations made against him,
• 6:25
  Speaker 8: is that he attempted to conceal the saw from investigators initially,
• 6:29
  Speaker 8: and so when they were able to find it and
• 6:31
  Speaker 8: thenk it back to Suzanne, they charged him with tampering
• 6:34
  Speaker 8: with evidence.
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: Well, if it's right there in his toolbox, I don't
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: understand how he's trying to hide it. I'm certainly not
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: taking his side.
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: But you know, Ben Power.
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: Is joining me, high profile defense attorney at legal Powers.
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: Then the worst thing.
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: You can do if this ever makes it to a
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: jury is for the prosecutor to state something in opening statements.
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: Like yes, and he tried to hide the saw, and
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: then it comes out that he didn't.
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: Because if you're wrong as a prosecutor on one fact,
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: it taints everything else. It takes your good facts. So
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: when you stand up in front of a jury and
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: you say he tried to hide the saw, because you
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: know what the hiding part is the big indicator that
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: something the faarius has occurred. Being Powers, how do I
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: know she didn't try to use the saw one time
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: and cut her finger on I mean, it could be
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: a million things, but the fact that he then tried
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: to hide it puts.
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: It in a whole another light.
• 7:31
  Speaker 5: Been Powers, Yeah, I agree, I think it's important that
• 7:34
  Speaker 5: if you're going to use the accusation that he tried
• 7:36
  Speaker 5: to hide the saw, and it turns out his toolbox. Obviously,
• 7:39
  Speaker 5: where that toolbox is found and you have the key
• 7:42
  Speaker 5: to hariving it, is trying to hide it. But I
• 7:45
  Speaker 5: agree with that. You just said you don't want to
• 7:46
  Speaker 5: lose credibility jury overstating or trying to extend your proof
• 7:53
  Speaker 5: beyond which your proof actually can show. And so I
• 7:56
  Speaker 5: think the importance to the saw in this context is
• 7:59
  Speaker 5: how its thread in the larger tapestry of the story.
• 8:03
  Speaker 5: And so I wouldn't unnecessarily try to extend it past
• 8:06
  Speaker 5: its value, which is her DNA's on the saw. And
• 8:10
  Speaker 5: for the States, that's a good fact. For the defense,
• 8:13
  Speaker 5: that's certainly a problem we're gonna have to address the trial.
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: Let me nail this down, Zachary tail all right, if
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: the saw with his wife's DNA on it, And you
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: know another thing I got to find out, Zachary, and
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: we may not know it yet, is it blood?
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: Because just go with me for a moment. Do I
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: believe this is true?
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: No? Could one's your or believe it absolutely? What if
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: she was using a saw and she cut herself through it?
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: I believe this.
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: Luxury real estate mom was out working with a reciprocating saw.
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: No, I don't, okay, but that is a legitimate argument
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: to be made to a jury. Or Zachary, what if.
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: It is bone, Now that's a whole another can of worms.
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: What if it is hair? Hair, It could be a
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: number of things that would clearly tell a jury that
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: the saw was used on her to dismember her. So, ay,
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: I gotta nail down. Is it true he tried to
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: hide it? And you know what, Zachary, when you don't
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: know a horse, look at his track record.
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: We already know he asked a friend. As a matter
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: of fact, I believe you told me this.
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: He asked a friend to hide a gun, and the
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: friend hid the gun in a false wall, and the
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: gun was found, and the friend, of course blabbed he
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: told me to hide it. So we know he has
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: a track record of hiding evidence. Now that's one thing,
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: But that doesn't prove to me he tried to hide
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: this saw. I need to know how did he try
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: to hide the saw? Where are we getting that?
• 9:44
  Speaker 8: So that comes directly from the charges against him, But
• 9:47
  Speaker 8: we don't have the exact details on where police found
• 9:50
  Speaker 8: the saw, other than it being in his toolbox. So
• 9:53
  Speaker 8: your points are completely accurate. And we also don't know
• 9:57
  Speaker 8: precisely what DNA they found.
• 9:58
  Speaker 5: On the saw.
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: Brian is Gibbons joining me.
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: Brian is the director of Operations for USPA Nationwide Security,
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: who leads teams of investigators all around the country trying
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: to find missing people. Brian, just go with me for
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: a moment. The saw in the toolbox. That's not damning,
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: that's not incriminating. That means nothing to me. I need
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: to know what part of DNA, what type of DNA
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: is it? For instance, if it's hair and scalp, it's
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: over for him. If it's just a little blood, well
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: that could have an innocent explanation. Not that I believe it,
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: but it could. So what about this, Brian? If the
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: toolbox itself, we know the saw is in the toolbox,
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: But if the toolbox itself, let's just say was buried
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: in the backyard, Okay, that indicates nefarious intent. If it
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: was flung in a river, we have to know more
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: facts before we can just blurt out it was hidden.
• 10:56
  Speaker 10: Yeah, as Attorney Ben Powers just said, we're looking at
• 10:59
  Speaker 10: a whole tapis story of things laid out in this
• 11:01
  Speaker 10: charging document. So where it was concealed, how it was
• 11:05
  Speaker 10: concealed is certainly going to come out later. But there
• 11:08
  Speaker 10: was a reason that investigators put that in the documents. Okay,
• 11:12
  Speaker 10: we see him concealing the cell phone, we see him
• 11:14
  Speaker 10: concealing the guns. Now we read about him concealing the saw.
• 11:19
  Speaker 10: They're laying out a pattern of behavior from Brad Simpson.
• 11:22
  Speaker 8: Here.
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: You know, Ryan, I gave up cursing, or I said
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: I was giving up cursing when I had the twins.
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: But on this special special occasion, let me just say,
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: they damn well better show me later. Because Karen Starke
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: joining me, a renounced psychologist, TV radio trauma expert. You
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: can find her at karenstart dot com. Karen, you know
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: I lived through the j Simpson trial, Mayhey Rottenhill.
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: One little beauty thing, the glove, one little beauty thing.
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: And I guarantee you, Karen Stark, if I could have
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: gotten in that courtroom and gone up to Simpson, I
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: would have gotten that glove on his hand, no question,
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: but no doubt, one thing. That one thing tainted the
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: whole case. It messed up the whole case. Like here,
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: if the state says he hit it, and then you
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: can't prove he hit it.
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: A technical legal term, they're screwed.
• 12:18
  Speaker 8: You know.
• 12:19
  Speaker 9: I would think, Nancy, that they would not say that
• 12:22
  Speaker 9: he was tampering with the evidence or hiding it unless
• 12:25
  Speaker 9: there was actually a reason.
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: Stop. Brother Kimble's.
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: Crowns is demonstrating what a reciprocating handheld saw is. Does
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: that come with another blade, a detachable blade?
• 12:41
  Speaker 7: Yes, it comes with multiple different blades depending on what
• 12:44
  Speaker 7: you're trying to saw up. It can come with ones
• 12:46
  Speaker 7: that'll work on a metal. It also comes with ones
• 12:49
  Speaker 7: that'll trim trees, things of that nature.
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: So for those of you just join medical examiner, doctor
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: Kendall Crown's is demonstrating a reciprocating saw. Go ahead, okay,
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: thank you, doctor Crowns. You know, to Zachary Taylor Wright,
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: the big bombshell tonight is that Suzanne's DNA is found
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: on that reciprocating saw. But there is other evidence that's
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: extremely disturbing.
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: The problem with a reciprocating.
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: Saw is that in the leading up to tonight, we
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: were looking for a body because nobody wouldn't you agree,
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: Jeff Horney, There's no way Suzanne would have stayed away
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: from her children this long.
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: No, absolutely not, so that means we're looking for a body.
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: But now that the reciprocating saw has entered the scene
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: with her DNA on it, that means he has very
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: likely been dismembered. That is going to make the discovery
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: of her remains much more difficult.
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: What does that mean to a prosecutor?
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: That means this may very well be a no body case,
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: as in, there will never be a body discovered. But
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: what else do we know? Zachary Taylor, right and joining
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: us from my San Antonio. We were just describing Brad
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: Simpson going out for a what a burger?
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: He certainly did not lose.
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: His appetite in light of his wife missing. Now I
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: know I'm projecting Zachary Taylor, right, But when.
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: I learned my fiance had been murdered, I lost down
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: to eighty nine pounds.
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: The thought of food literally made me sick, nauseous, and
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: I went so long. I remember the first thing I ingested,
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: and it was orange juice and something my mom had
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: in the fridge.
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: So I know that's just my experience.
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: But when I hear about Brad Simpson in the middle
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: of his wife missing, big out at what a Burger.
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: I'm not a shrink or a dietitian, but that just
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: doesn't sit right with me.
• 15:06
  Speaker 8: I mean, we don't know exactly what he purchased at
• 15:08
  Speaker 8: Waterburger so far, but we do know that he did,
• 15:11
  Speaker 8: in fact stop at Waterburger with some we'll say, suspicious
• 15:15
  Speaker 8: items in his trunk that he later unloaded after making
• 15:19
  Speaker 8: two separate stops. And we also know, according to the
• 15:24
  Speaker 8: restaurant off A David, he's accused of burning the couple
• 15:27
  Speaker 8: of electronics as well out of bendera home.
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: First of all, he puts his phone in quote lockdown mode.
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: Ryan Gibbons joining us USPA Nationwide Security. I don't know
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: what lockdown mode means. I guess that means like airplane mode.
• 15:45
  Speaker 10: Right, this is gonna go, This is gonna go one
• 15:48
  Speaker 10: step beyond that, Nancy. So once that phone enters lockdown mode,
• 15:52
  Speaker 10: you have no data being transmitted from that phone to
• 15:56
  Speaker 10: the cloud, to any towers, So trep tracking Brad Simpson's
• 16:01
  Speaker 10: movements with the phone would become nearly impossible at that point.
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: Ben Powers joining me high profile lawyer with legal powers.
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: Ben kind of reminds me of Brian Coberger. Just so happens.
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: He turns his phone off exactly the time the four
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: University Idaho students are murdered in their beds. What a
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: coink you think, Ben?
• 16:26
  Speaker 5: I do agree that taring off his phone is certainly
• 16:30
  Speaker 5: not a practice of the defense. You know. It definitely
• 16:33
  Speaker 5: is consistent with trying to have his activities where he's going,
• 16:37
  Speaker 5: what he's doing. There are other layers of allegations in
• 16:41
  Speaker 5: the war and against him the show. He's pretty active
• 16:45
  Speaker 5: after the altercation that he had of Suzanne and the
• 16:49
  Speaker 5: activity involved on the home depot to get different items
• 16:52
  Speaker 5: like trash bags, tarks, concrete buckets, things like that.
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: There is the discovery we talked about Powers Powers the
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: phone being put in lockdown mode. Is that the same
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: thing as airplane mode? Or is it something more?
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: What is it?
• 17:09
  Speaker 5: It's something more. It's something that's intended to avoid hitting
• 17:12
  Speaker 5: those things on the towers so that he could conceal
• 17:14
  Speaker 5: his movements. Okay, the thing I guess he wasn't baking
• 17:18
  Speaker 5: on was his car head GPS line as well. So
• 17:21
  Speaker 5: kind of idiot defeated the purpose of what he hoped
• 17:23
  Speaker 5: to achieve.
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: You know, Ben Powers, would you agree that at this
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: juncture in our technological world, a jury is going to
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: view putting your phone in airplane mode or lockdown.
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: As being as bad as placing you at the scene.
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: I mean, if he had had any sense at all,
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: he would have left his phone on at his home,
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: but instead he put it in lockdown. So I think
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: it has a very nefarious or sinister connotation to juries
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: because jury's didn't just fall off the turnip truck.
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: They don't have their phone in lockdown. They may not
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: even know how to.
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: Find lockdown on their phone, so that is going to
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: signal to them that something sinister was happening.
• 18:11
  Speaker 5: And I agree that the problem the state still has
• 18:13
  Speaker 5: got to have is that's all person would come in
• 18:18
  Speaker 5: after the fact, after the allegation that he killed Suzanne.
• 18:23
  Speaker 5: They don't have anything before. They don't have any premeditation,
• 18:26
  Speaker 5: any planning before. This is all posts and so they're
• 18:29
  Speaker 5: still going to have a problem with establishing, you know,
• 18:32
  Speaker 5: with this avoluntary manslaughter.
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: Ben Powers, You're right, they've got a problem.
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: Jeff Horney is joining us, a longtime friend of Susanne
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: and Brad Simpson's. You know, Jeff, how exactly do you
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: know them. Who did you know first?
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: I knew Suzanne first, and then I I met Brad
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: after that, before they even know each other.
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: So how would you describe him?
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: You know, he was a different dude. He was a
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: little weird, a little different, but you know he was
• 19:11
  Speaker 3: he was always uh you know, smiling and and I'll
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: be honest with you. Being a year younger than me,
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: I didn't see him a lot. The only time I
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: saw him was back at the frat house and everybody
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: was drinking beer and and you know, doing doing what
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: we do there. So you know, I've spent a summer
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: with Brad before his freshman year, uh, you know, rushing
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: our fraternity and and getting to know him and trying
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: to get him to.
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: Okay, well, I don't need to hear about rush season.
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: What I want to hear about Jeff Horny is when
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: you said he was odd.
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: That's what I want to hear about. You know the
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: old quote everyone.
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: Is odd but me and the and I think the
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: a bit queer at times.
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: What that means, h and.
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: Everyday parlance is everybody thinks everybody else is weird but themselves. Okay,
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: So when you say he was odd, you just can't
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: put that out there and leave it hanging.
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: What did he do that was odd?
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: Well, he never went anywhere with Suzanne. She was always
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: by herself, football games, by yourself, to watch her daughter's
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: cheer parties by yourself. Never Brad was was was very
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: rarely there. So that was that was that was odd
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: to me. You know, I don't know what else you
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: want me to say.
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: I was around.
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: I was around them because I Suzanne was a friend
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: of mine. You know, she's the one that would call
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: me and invite me to their parties. I wasn't you know,
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: Brad would not call me and and invite me. Uh
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: he he is a you know, again, the the community
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: is is a a party driven community. You know, there
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: was a lot of partying and alcohol. And there's this
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: group of mainly Alamo Heights men that raised money for
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: underprivileged folks and they they the cavaliers is what they're called.
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: And he was a cavalier. So you know, he had
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: some good qualities. I think, uh you know, I think
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: he might have been an okay father and and took
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: his kids hunting and fishing. I just know he was
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: not a very good husband.
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: I don't know that allegedly murdering the mother of your children.
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: Qualifies as being a good thought. Hey, Zachary Taylor, right,
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: got a question for you.
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to go along with the police and these
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: recent court filings as to everything that they have uncovered
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: with his phone in lockdown mode, police had to go
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: to extreme methods gathering surveillance video from all over homes, businesses, red.
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: Lights, you name it.
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: Let me talk to you about that, because what they
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: have put together without the use of his phone is
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: survellance video showing his truck at a grocery store twelve
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: thirty three am. Uh oh, he must have had a
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: snack attack. Twelve thirty three am, he said, the grocery store.
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: Nothing in the bed of his truck but an ice chest.
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: Then when he takes his daughter to school the next morning,
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: where was Susanne she normally takes him to school. There
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: are two full white trash bags added in the truck bed.
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: Okay. Then when he's spotted at that Bernie Whatburger an
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: hour later. Now he's got.
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: A heavy duty trash can with the firewood rat weighing
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: down an object now covered with the blue tarp. Wow,
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: a lot happened after he dropped his daughter off huh absolutely.
• 23:09
  Speaker 8: He also made a stop at a home depot where
• 23:11
  Speaker 8: he bought concrete, a large bucket, and some I believe
• 23:17
  Speaker 8: cleaning spray with bleach before he asks for directions to
• 23:21
  Speaker 8: the nearest dump site.
• 23:22
  Speaker 11: Simpson then stops at the Bernie home depot. Simpson buys
• 23:25
  Speaker 11: concrete mix, a bucket, trash bags, and chlorox spray. On
• 23:29
  Speaker 11: his way out, Simpson asks for directions to the nearest dump.
• 23:33
  Speaker 11: Surveillance footage captures Simpson leaving the dump then stopping for gas.
• 23:37
  Speaker 11: The two white trash bags are no longer in the bed.
• 23:40
  Speaker 11: Simpson then drives to Medina, just west of the family
• 23:44
  Speaker 11: home in Bandera. When Simpson is spotted again back in Bernie,
• 23:48
  Speaker 11: the tarp and whatever was underneath it are gone.
• 23:51
  Speaker 4: Simpson is on his way back from Bernie when he
• 23:53
  Speaker 4: receives the call, but Suzanne isn't there for their daughter.
• 23:57
  Speaker 4: Simpson picks her up around three point thirty, then heads
• 23:59
  Speaker 4: to his usual car wash with her. Video shows Simpson
• 24:03
  Speaker 4: washing the interior around the driver's seat and rear left
• 24:06
  Speaker 4: passenger seat, cleaning up what he claims were concrete stains.
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: In his car, Cleaning up the vehicle at the car wash.
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: You know, straight out of the playbook. A Photus Dulos.
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: You know, Dulos charged in the murder of his wife,
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: a Connecticut mother of five, and police in Connecticut did
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: an incredible job of pacing together video from all sorts
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: of origins.
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: You know what, listen, investigators believe photos.
• 24:38
  Speaker 4: Dulos parks his employees read Tacoma a few blocks from
• 24:42
  Speaker 4: Jennifer Dulo's home, then rides a bike the rest of
• 24:45
  Speaker 4: the way, lying in wait for her to return. After
• 24:48
  Speaker 4: attacking her in the garage, cops believe Dulo's loads Jennifer,
• 24:52
  Speaker 4: dead or unconscious in the back of her own suv,
• 24:55
  Speaker 4: then transfers her body into the Tacoma. Less than a
• 24:59
  Speaker 4: week later, without his employees knowledge, Dulas takes the truck again.
• 25:03
  Speaker 4: Doulos is caught on video paying for a car wash
• 25:06
  Speaker 4: in cash. His girlfriend, Michelle Traconis, later tells authorities he
• 25:10
  Speaker 4: was trying to clean a coffee spill. Despite Doulo's efforts,
• 25:15
  Speaker 4: investigators still managed to recover Jennifer Dulos's DNA from the
• 25:19
  Speaker 4: passenger seat.
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: To Ben Power's high profile defense attorney, why is it
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: when there is a murder or somebody goes missing Suddenly husbands.
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: And or suspects turn into Nate Nicks. You remember.
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: Jody Arias did all the laundry after she murdered Travis Alexander. Whoopsie,
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: She left her digital camera in the laundry, and you
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: see her foot by the dead body in the digitcam
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: out to that hurt. Then Scott Peterson went on a
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: laundry jag Clton doing all the laundry in the home
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: and cleaning up.
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: It goes on and on and on. Ben Powers, thank.
• 25:58
  Speaker 5: You for the obvious very active and very busy and
• 26:02
  Speaker 5: whatever it is.
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: Powers, weren't you the veteran defense attorney, because.
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: I'm hearing an echo. You're just saying what I just said.
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: What's your defense in this case of Simpson cleaning out
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: his vehicle around the time his wife goes missing.
• 26:18
  Speaker 5: I think at most you can just say it's odd
• 26:20
  Speaker 5: because they still don't have a body. They don't have
• 26:23
  Speaker 5: anything to say how he took her life, when he
• 26:26
  Speaker 5: took her life, where he took her life, where he
• 26:28
  Speaker 5: just remembered her, where she is if he did dismember her.
• 26:32
  Speaker 5: At the moment, all they have is DNA on the
• 26:34
  Speaker 5: boatsaw that no one can really explain. There's a lot
• 26:38
  Speaker 5: of speculation that can go.
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: Okay, okay, point will taken, Ben Powers, point will taken.
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: Zacharychill are right? Tell me about his movements that day.
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: I want to talk about the tarp, the bleach that
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: stops at the grocery at twelve thirty in the morning,
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: then going to a dump site, then.
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: Driving all around.
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: The area making stops, and all those bags of trash
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: then disappear every time he makes a stop. In a
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: surveillance video, something's been moved out of the bed of
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: his trunk. So why is it that day suddenly it's
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: in and out, in and out with the truck bed
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: just tons of trash bags a tart for Pete's sake.
• 27:15
  Speaker 8: I can't tell you why he did it. All I
• 27:17
  Speaker 8: can do is tell you what he's accused of doing,
• 27:19
  Speaker 8: and that is, like you mentioned, starting the morning with
• 27:24
  Speaker 8: some suspicious activity, including driving out to Bernie after dropping
• 27:29
  Speaker 8: off his daughter with only a nice chest in his trunk,
• 27:33
  Speaker 8: and the art starting in the bed of his truck
• 27:35
  Speaker 8: before he's then seen in Bernie with you know, large
• 27:39
  Speaker 8: trash fins and then stops at home depot, where he's
• 27:43
  Speaker 8: then seen that water burger with the large object covered
• 27:48
  Speaker 8: by a tarp, and then he asks for directions to
• 27:51
  Speaker 8: the nearest dump there and Bernie, and he's shortly seen
• 27:55
  Speaker 8: on surveillance camera footage after visiting the dep with the
• 27:59
  Speaker 8: two tryack's gone, but he still has the large item
• 28:02
  Speaker 8: covered with the tart. He then proceeds to drive to Bandera,
• 28:06
  Speaker 8: which officers reportedly know from license plate readers and other
• 28:11
  Speaker 8: surveillance footage that they see of his truck driving out there.
• 28:14
  Speaker 8: He then stops in Bandera for only less than fifteen
• 28:17
  Speaker 8: minutes before he's done seen driving back towards Bernie with
• 28:21
  Speaker 8: the tart and the large item under the tar being gone.
• 28:26
  Speaker 8: He's unseen on surveillance footage picking up his daughter and
• 28:30
  Speaker 8: all of those suspicious items from the back of his
• 28:32
  Speaker 8: truck are gone.
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: Jeff Horny, longtime friend of both Susanne and Brad Simpson.
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: I got to figure out how smart and or dumb
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: is your friend, Brad Simpson, because.
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: It's like the same old playbook.
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: Come on, this is the same exact thing Fotus Dulos did.
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: Okay, there's a copious amount.
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: Of blood found in the garage outside of Jennifer's car
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: after she came back from drop off that morning at school.
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: She's never been found, but he Traconas and his girlfriend,
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: that's certainly one way to put it. Michelle Traconas are
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: caught on video driving all around town going to I
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: believe it was five different trash receptacles caught on video
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: throwing away sponges, rags, towels all soaked in blood. The wife,
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: Jennifer Dulos shirt and bras soaked in blood.
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: So how smart is.
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: Simpson because he's just doing the same old playbook for
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: Pete's sake.
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: I don't think he's very smart. I'm you know, after
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: I heard that they found the found her DNA on
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: the reciprocating saw.
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: He's crazy.
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: I mean, I don't know what he could have to
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: get all that done in the few hours that he
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: got done. I'd like to know what he was on
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: to do that, you know?
• 30:10
  Speaker 5: Uh?
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: Has Brian Fitzgibbons, Brian, do you ever wish that suspect,
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: of course he's presumed innocent, would do something different? I mean,
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: don't you know that if the authorities have already gotten
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: him on video at the water Burger and the grocery
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: store and the here and the there. They're going to
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: have video of him disposing of stuff, although he may
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: have disposed of it in a remote area where we're
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: never going to find it.
• 30:40
  Speaker 10: Yeah, Nancy, at this point that I certainly wish all
• 30:45
  Speaker 10: the time that you know, a defendant would come forward
• 30:47
  Speaker 10: with the truth. Right, But at this point we're probably
• 30:50
  Speaker 10: dealing with multiple disposal sites, potentially bodies of water, potentially
• 30:57
  Speaker 10: different dump sites, and uh, you know this, this is
• 31:00
  Speaker 10: going to be very complicated. But so far as a wish,
• 31:02
  Speaker 10: of course, I feel that all the time, I wish
• 31:04
  Speaker 10: you'd come forward and give us the truth.
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: A major update in the search for Suzanne Simpson, the
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: missing Texas mom luxury realtor Listen It's.
• 31:14
  Speaker 6: Part Police Department, along with the Texas Rangers, have charged
• 31:18
  Speaker 6: Brad Chandler Simpson with murder in the death of his wife,
• 31:22
  Speaker 6: Suzanne Clark Simpson.
• 31:23
  Speaker 5: The Rangers have not.
• 31:24
  Speaker 12: Stopped investigating this case, as it has been turned over
• 31:27
  Speaker 12: to the District Attorney's apartment. The District Attorney starts their
• 31:30
  Speaker 12: process in the prosecution phase. Even though we are not
• 31:33
  Speaker 12: stopping our search for Suzanne Clark Simpson.
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: That from our friends at k e NS five and
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: you were hearing the almost part chief of police for
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: Dale Valet House and Sergeant Dion Cockrell from the Texas
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: Department of Public Safety. So now there is a formal
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: charge the district attorney now starting the prosecution phase. Will
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: more be made clear? Maybe not. We don't have a
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: right to know all of the details surrounding this case.
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: Straight out to doctor Kendall Crown's chief medical examiner in
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: Terran County, that's Fort Worth, Texas, doctor Kendall Crowns.
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: I'm thinking back on photos.
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: Dulos and how he and his lover, Michelle Chaconis were
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: hiding Jennifer, the mother of his five children. I mean
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: hiding throwing away into dumpsters, into trash receptacles all over town.
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: What man throws the same bag of trash in five
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: different trash cans?
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: Okay, food for thought.
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: But if we find, if we discover that Susanne has
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: been dismembered, that could mean anything from a leg to
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: a digit. So how do you go about if any
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: part of her is found connecting that back to Susanne Simpson.
• 32:55
  Speaker 7: So well, what you would have to do is whatever
• 32:58
  Speaker 7: you receive, you get tissue, bone, marrow, whatever you can
• 33:02
  Speaker 7: pull off of it, and then submit that for DNA.
• 33:05
  Speaker 7: If it happened to be a finger, you could actually
• 33:07
  Speaker 7: get fingerprints from it if it's still intact enough, and
• 33:10
  Speaker 7: you could do it that way. But in this type
• 33:13
  Speaker 7: of case, with the parts being found over time, that
• 33:17
  Speaker 7: each part that is found is going to have to
• 33:19
  Speaker 7: have DNA testing done on it to make sure it's
• 33:22
  Speaker 7: from her. But once you do find a part, especially
• 33:25
  Speaker 7: if it's like a large portion, like a thigh or
• 33:27
  Speaker 7: something like that, you know she's been murdered. You know
• 33:30
  Speaker 7: she's been cut up.
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: Joining me is renowned psychologist Karen Start joining us from Manhattan. Karen,
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: the loss of your mother is overwhelming, I've been told,
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: But then the additional shock that she'sn't been murdered, then
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: the additional shock that she has been dismembered. Now, if
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: the children don't accept that, they are left with the
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: specter of my mom's not dead, she just abandoned me.
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: So what are your thoughts?
• 34:07
  Speaker 9: Well, no matter which way this turns out, Nancy, these
• 34:10
  Speaker 9: children don't have a mother anymore. So there is so
• 34:14
  Speaker 9: much they've been exposed to. They're going to need a
• 34:17
  Speaker 9: tremendous amount.
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: Of help in my hand.
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: The newly released charging documents straight out to my Saint
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: Antonio Zachary tail all right, Zachary, tell me in a
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: nutshell about these allegations, and they are only that allegations.
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: He has not been proven guilty. What do you know?
• 34:33
  Speaker 8: So I know he's been charged with the murder of
• 34:35
  Speaker 8: Suzanne Simpson, and I also know he's been charged with
• 34:38
  Speaker 8: two bounts of tempering with evidence. One is linked to
• 34:42
  Speaker 8: the gun that he had his friend had and the
• 34:45
  Speaker 8: reciprocating saw that they alleged that he attempted to conceal
• 34:48
  Speaker 8: from investigators. Then he was also charged with tempering with
• 34:52
  Speaker 8: evidence with the intent to conceal his wife's body, although
• 34:58
  Speaker 8: very little information has been present on that charge. And
• 35:03
  Speaker 8: then those are the charges he's facing, but they're all
• 35:07
  Speaker 8: being questioned by his defense attorney.
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: In the last hours.
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: Brad Simpson in court before Judge Joel Petz with the
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: attorneys identified themselves.
• 35:16
  Speaker 8: He's a stand up appreciation. See you can get more
• 35:18
  Speaker 8: from mister Simpsons.
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: Okay, and so are you, Brad Chandler Simpson.
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: That from our friends aka b Zachary Taylor. What happened
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: in court.
• 35:26
  Speaker 8: There is quite a bit that's set to happen in
• 35:29
  Speaker 8: the coming months. He Brad Simpson is said to be
• 35:33
  Speaker 8: before the judge again on December nineteenth. Now that's a
• 35:37
  Speaker 8: motion to amend conditions. But very little has been filed
• 35:40
  Speaker 8: with the court to tell us or offer any kind
• 35:43
  Speaker 8: of insight into what his defense attorney might be looking
• 35:46
  Speaker 8: to do, although in the past he has sought to
• 35:49
  Speaker 8: reduce the bond amount and change the bond conditions to
• 35:52
  Speaker 8: allow him to see his children. And then he'll be
• 35:56
  Speaker 8: back before the judge on February twelve.
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: Well, you're right again. You don't know a horse. Look
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: at his track record.
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: Now Brad Simpson is demanding that the charges be thrown out.
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: Listen, there's emotion to quash the inditement, which I think
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: we will dedigate as a leader date.
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: That's for our friends at kabb to ben powers in
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: a nutshell, Ben a nutshell. The state doesn't give a
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: killer a gold star or an A plus plus because
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: they get rid of the body.
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: That's not happening.
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: The state doesn't have to lay out in the indictment
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: how the victim was killed.
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: If they can prove it, sure, put it in.
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: There, for instance, by manual strangulation, by shooting with the weapon,
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: by stabbing, But it doesn't matter.
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: The state doesn't have to prove how she was killed.
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: They just have to convince a jury that she has
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: been killed and that he did it in this jurisdiction.
• 36:49
  Speaker 5: Well, I disagree with that. They have to lay out
• 36:52
  Speaker 5: what their theory of the killing is. You know, there's
• 36:54
  Speaker 5: a big difference between a voluntary manslaughter, which is a
• 36:57
  Speaker 5: accidental killing, and a first degree murder, which is premeditated killing.
• 37:01
  Speaker 5: It sounds like his defense attorneys are saying, you're saying
• 37:05
  Speaker 5: he killed her, but you're not telling us how when
• 37:07
  Speaker 5: where any of the important details that go to your
• 37:10
  Speaker 5: theory of premeditation, And so that's what they're attacking with
• 37:13
  Speaker 5: their most recent silence is the lack of proof that
• 37:16
  Speaker 5: goes towards premeditation, like the state is trying to make
• 37:18
  Speaker 5: it out to be.
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: So, Ben Powers, let me understand in your mind, the
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: state has to lay out the exact mode of murder.
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: So you've never encountered a case where there was no
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: body to be found and the mode of murder was unknown.
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: Are you telling me, You've never seen a no body
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: case indictment.
• 37:41
  Speaker 5: What I'm saying is this most recent motion sounds like
• 37:44
  Speaker 5: what I would call a deal. In particular, it's basically
• 37:47
  Speaker 5: the defense throwing down the gauntlet and saying, okay, state,
• 37:50
  Speaker 5: you say my client premeditated killed this person.
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: I know what they filed, Ben, I know what the
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: defense filed. We just had reporters say that. But then
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: you said the dight must show mode i've murder.
• 38:02
  Speaker 5: When I say mode, I mean in this case, they're
• 38:04
  Speaker 5: saying it's premeditated, and then must include a factual allegation
• 38:10
  Speaker 5: that supports premeditation being charged.
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: For all of you would be wife killers out there,
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: an indictment does not have to show how you killed
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: your partner, Okay, you getting rid of the body is
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: not going to help you. And in Diamond only has
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: to allege that you committed premeditated murder the jurisdiction in
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: the name of the victim.
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: That's it.
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: The rest can be proven at trial. The state is
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: still building its case.
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: If you know or think you know anything.
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: About the disappearance of Texas's mom, Suzanne Simpson, or the
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: movements of her husband, Brad Simpson, who is presumed innocent.
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: Please dial two one zero two zero nine to seven
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: zero one two one zero two zero nine two seven
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: zero one. Let's remember now an American hero David Ennsbrenner Atchison,
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: p D. Kansas, shot and killed in the line of duty.
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: Served twenty four years in law enforcement. Survived by wife
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: now widow, Carrie, and children without a father, Avery, Abby
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: and Celia. American hero Sergeant David Ennsbrenner. Nancy Gray signing
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: off goodbye friend.