Latest / Authentic Living / Are Mental Health Issues in the Workplace on the Rise? with Mental Health Specialist, Sue-Ann Maislin

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Are Mental Health Issues in the Workplace on the Rise? with Mental Health Specialist, Sue-Ann Maislin · Authentic Living

• 0:01
  Welcome to authentic living with Roxanne, a place where we conscious conversations about
• 0:08
  things that really matter in our lives.
• 0:12
  And now here's your host, Roxanne Derhodge.
• 0:37
  Everyone's, Roxanne Derhodge.
• 0:38
  Thanks.
• 0:38
  Thanks for tuning in again today.
• 0:40
  I have a colleague that I've known Souanna, I'm gonna say we've known each other now about 20
• 0:45
  years because I've been gone from, the consulting situation that we were involved in.
• 0:49
  So what thanks so much for coming on today.
• 0:52
  My pleasure.
• 0:53
  So, Sue Ann is a a workplace mental health specialist and, you know, an area that
• 0:59
  obviously I speak about a lot in my arena with my background.
• 1:03
  And Suzanne's, she also went to, the same university as myself, the University of
• 1:09
  Toronto, and where she has an undergrad in psychology and, a leadership, adult design
• 1:17
  degree.
• 1:18
  Is that what it is?
• 1:19
  A master's
• 1:20
  Yeah.
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  I have a masters in counseling and a masters in adult education.
• 1:23
  So you a double masters.
• 1:25
  Okay.
• 1:25
  Didn't read the second one.
• 1:26
  Awesome.
• 1:27
  So we, she's she worked in, with private and public sector.
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  She's, really been involved with, mental health training in the workplace.
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  So I thought we would have her on to share some of her wisdom of what really what's happening
• 1:40
  out there in, the workplace.
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  And mental health, And you keep hearing it, and we keep seeing it in an environments for sure.
• 1:48
  Swann, it's on the rise and it's continually keeping, going up year after year.
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  So let's talk a little bit about kind of your space and what you're doing out there with
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  mental health in the workplace.
• 2:02
  Thanks.
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  So my my, goal is really to to sit down and have honest conversations with employers and
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  leaders and different stakeholders in the workplace about their experience at work.
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  So we talk about, you know, mental health on the one hand, and we also talk about mental
• 2:18
  health problems and mental illness.
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  And that space, the the space I could talk about mental health problems, mental disorders
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  are continuing to increase depression, is a single leading cause of ill health and
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  disability worldwide.
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  And certainly here in Canada, It accounts for the majority of people being off work or
• 2:37
  struggling at work.
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  But we're also I also wanna talk to workplaces about mental health, you know, the the health
• 2:43
  part of mental health, the resiliency and coping skills that people need.
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  And in fact, I was listening to one of your previous speakers talking about coping and
• 2:51
  resilience skills for youth.
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  We really have a bit of a coping crisis going on, so it's about teaching people skills to be
• 2:59
  healthy.
• 3:00
  And to cope and to protect their mental health and also working with employers to design plans
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  to not only keep people healthy, but be able to respond effectively when people struggle
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  because that fact is all of us struggle from time to time.
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  And although more people are talking about it, than ever before, which is heartening to see.
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  There's a lot of stigma that exists, and it's a barrier, for workplaces.
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  And that's
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  the driving of the costs.
• 3:27
  So why well, from your perspective, you're out there and I'm out there.
• 3:30
  Why do you think there's such a drastic when we we were in consulting together, there was an
• 3:36
  increase.
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  We knew that year over year, the short term claims were on the increase.
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  The the long term claims were in the increase, you know, we would track things like incidental
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  absences and what were the needs, for strategic planning with different environments to keep
• 3:50
  people at work and healthy.
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  And we're talking 10, 20 years ago.
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  And it's just continued to become to stay to to increase an exponential rate.
• 4:00
  Why do you think that's happening?
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  It's interesting.
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  Yeah.
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  Like you said, we were kind of pioneers back then, you know, talking about something that
• 4:06
  nobody wanted to talk about.
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  So the good news is people are talking about it.
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  And employers are talking about it mainly because of a cost associated with mental health
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  problems.
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  And those costs, even though we're talking about it, for many employers, they still
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  continue to increase.
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  And I feel like part of the problem is that employers are If they're doing anything at all,
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  it's usually really reactive and sometimes it's a little bit of a band aid type strategy.
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  But sometimes employers are just totally hands off you know, so there's lots of lost
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  opportunity.
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  And they're not really doing anything that's comprehensive.
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  They're they're not always appealing to the people who need supports in the work place.
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  I see a lot of breakdown in leader behavior, you know, that that leader behavior really
• 4:49
  drives mental health in the workplace.
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  Yeah.
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  That leader employee relationship when it's positive and there's connection between the 2.
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  Really enforces people feeling better about coming work and feeling like they'll be
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  supported if they have any kind of difficulty.
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  But the fact is a lot of leaders don't know how to support people and they're very
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  uncomfortable if somebody's experiencing a personal problem.
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  And I've even heard leaders kind of just say, you know, no thanks, not for me.
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  That's not my role.
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  You know, sorry.
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  So that, unfortunately, that kind of disconnect is also part of the problem.
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  Employees who may be struggling, are living in shame and silence.
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  They feel isolated, by their colleagues.
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  They're afraid to share what's going on with their leader because they fear that they'll be
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  a prejudice against in some way or discriminated against, or, you know, maybe even
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  lose their job.
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  So it's a very scary prospect.
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  And so that disconnect, that sort of drives disconnection and lack of trust in the
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  workplace is probably increasing some of the costs that we're seeing.
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  And, you know, I I and I can speak to, you know, we've all been through things in our
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  life.
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  And I want to talk about that spectrum, right, because Every time people hear mental health,
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  they think illness.
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  So I, you know, and I really, I always say to people, we there's such a spectrum and Gone of
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  the days which is that, you know, people are using their limbs and and getting those broken.
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  Now if you think about your day, Suzanne, on my day, we're constantly using your brain.
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  Right.
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  Right?
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  And, you know, we get up and we continue to using it, and we're on computers, and we're
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  consulting, and we're writing, and we're speaking.
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  And in in this day and age, how many people are already acting in that capacity?
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  A lot of us.
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  Mhmm.
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  And we're not got, you know, We're not shutting down like we used to.
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  I'm I grew up in Trinidad, not too big.
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  I I was talking to my dad about this and, about what's we're having a mental health talk or
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  discussion over dinner the other day.
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  And I said, you know, dad, at home, there were two channels when I grew up in Trinidad and
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  Tobago on TV too.
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  And it was 3:11.
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  Freddy Trinidad, and this night, they're gonna go, yeah, yeah.
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  And it shut up.
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  It shut off at 11 o'clock.
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  If that, there was maybe a half an hour of something that kids would first of all want,
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  but it ended with the news.
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  So that wasn't the focal point.
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  And you kinda think I think about it now.
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  I'm talking about, you know, 30 years ago.
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  And now we're we're connected from the time we get up, and we know with adult brains, that's
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  one thing.
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  And we get tired, but you can think about young brains, which is where we're seeing a lot more,
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  you know, issues around mental health because a lot of these brains that aren't developed are
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  overloaded, and kids aren't shutting now because they don't know how to shut down.
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  Alright.
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  And that's actually a problem.
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  It's a problem for adults, like you said, because we had there was never any ground rules
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  even for those of us who lived in a space, like you said, where there were 2 t I remember I
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  lived in Quebec.
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  There were 2 English channels or 3 English channels.
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  And then eventually, we got cable and got the US channels.
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  But, you know, there was a time and there were boundaries and we had, you know, Sunday was a
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  kind of a day of rest and and so on and so forth.
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  Now we're connected all the time.
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  There's an expectation sometimes at work and in life to stay connected.
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  And as you mentioned, for youth in particular developing brains, there's a lot of evidence to
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  suggest that, all of the exposure to blue light that we're getting disrupts our circadian
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  rhythms.
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  We're not really teaching people how to connect socially, even though we're using social media
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  for connection.
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  People are maybe more isolated or there's this opportunity to present a self that's not really
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  their self to put on a mask, I guess, is is a way to put it.
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  And that challenge to kind of keep up that appearance that, you know, everything is okay.
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  Everything is okay when they're not okay.
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  And then you mentioned also just the pressure that we have.
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  20 fourseven, 365 stimulation.
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  And it's hard to turn it off.
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  There are some people who actually get addicted to all of that because they just like the drama
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  that's going on around them.
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  So it's challenging.
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  Right?
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  And so we're seeing, as you mentioned, young people, you know, youth between 16 24, are
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  experiencing and often do experience for higher rates of onset for some mental health problems.
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  And that happens.
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  That's been happening historically because people move through puberty and into adulthood
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  and often start to experience symptoms.
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  But also we're seeing an increase in the number of people.
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  The prevalence for depression worldwide has grown 18%.
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  So that's just one single illness.
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  Is a leading cause of health problems worldwide.
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  And some of the evidence suggests that, you know, the constant pressure, constant stress,
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  constant blue light that we're getting from all of our devices has has affected our brain
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  function.
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  And our circadian rhythm, and it's it's impacting our overall health.
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  So let's talk about Employers out there.
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  They obviously, the bottom line, and I will go to the bottom line because that's where the
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  pocket as soon as the pocketbook gets impacted, we start talking about making change strategy
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  wise.
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  What kind of shifts have you seen, let's say, in the last 10 years, around really putting the
• 10:06
  right strategies in place to impact the bottom line in companies.
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  That's a great question.
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  There are some employers.
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  So a few things that that, note on the mental health commission of Canada has a longitudinal
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  case study program that they launched back in 2013, 2013 when the national standard for
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  psychological health and safety in the workplace was launched So for those of you not
• 10:28
  familiar, I'm happy to send you a link to to it, Roxanne, and it outlines really, how
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  employers can go about implementing a a comprehensive strategy to protect the
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  psychological health, the psychological safety of workers.
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  So a few larger lawyers have participated in that case study.
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  One that I've worked with really closely is Bell Canada.
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  They have, in my opinion, really exemplified what workplace can do.
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  So they've looked at different dimensions, and one really crucial thing that probably kick
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  started them was their CEO, George Copson sharing of his personal situation.
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  And the impetus to really say we've gotta change things around here.
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  It's not just about money.
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  It's about keeping talented people.
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  It's about having a workplace where people really want to come in and there's happy
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  workers.
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  So they have done, really they look sort of from bottom up about what they wanted to do.
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  They've been doing some training, sort of ad hoc around mental health for leaders in the
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  workplace for a while, but they really decided at a point that we've gotta make things change.
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  And they started looking at, you know, things like what's driving short term disability
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  claims.
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  What's happening when somebody is presenting mental health issues?
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  Are they getting support from the workplace?
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  Do they have support outside of the workplace?
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  How can we change the dynamic between leaders and team members?
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  So there's better conversations happening.
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  And one of the things that they really did is they worked with their insurance provider.
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  I think it's Manulife and, with their employee and family assistance provider and, with other
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  providers and they came up with a strategy that worked, and they looked at things like leader
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  trading, but training that's really specifically targeting some behaviors that make
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  a difference.
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  And giving leaders routine training and check ins around how to apply skills.
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  They also worked looking at how to support early accommodation in the workplace.
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  So the goal was to let workers know it's safe to talk about mental health in our workplace.
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  You will be treated with respect and we have a lot of resources to help.
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  And the idea of saying, you know, we have support for employees leaders who get support
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  on how to support you and options for accommodating you early on if you're starting
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  to struggle with no penalty have really been a And so what they're seeing, and they've
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  presented on in some conferences is, lower rates of short term disability.
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  So people actually being off work less number of cases and duration of of claims.
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  So they've actually seen 16 day reduction, I think, is the last number I heard.
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  In days of absence when you got 55,000 employees across Canada and that's a lot of
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  money.
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  And, you know, there's stuff that you can measure.
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  Right?
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  You can measure short term and long term claims.
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  You can measure, employee satisfaction, I guess, like the pulse surveys and things like
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  that that they do at work.
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  And you can measure what other dimensions really need to change, you know, at work and
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  things like respect in the workplace, for example, you know, helping people learn to be
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  to behave better and setting standards around those behaviors that work.
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  And they they've also, I think, collaboratively worked like I said, a number of stakeholders in
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  their business, including their unions, including grassroots, employee groups,
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  including training, creating peer teams in some aspects of their business.
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  So they've got, you know, mental health peers that are trained, to talk to colleagues and
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  encourage them to reach out to support resource, and they've got resources for support
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  and and even good coverage for mental health benefits.
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  So if somebody needs to speak to a counselor, and Both of us know that can be difficult to
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  arrange.
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  Even if you've got funding, it can be difficult to arrange.
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  They have, resources available, and they've got money, benefits for employees to use directly
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  for psychological counseling.
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  So they they've actually seen, a reduction in in the numbers.
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  And maybe they're trying to see happier employees at work.
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  I think that's the other thing.
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  Some things you just cannot measure.
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  Like, is somebody really better engaged at work because they're feeling mentally healthy?
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  And I don't know yet if anyone's really capturing those kinds of numbers.
• 14:31
  Again, they have employee satisfaction service and stuff like that, but that's sort of the
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  wave, you know, to say, yeah, we've got, we've been able to bump down our costs, and we've
• 14:39
  been able to look at them now.
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  I think they started measuring back in 2010.
• 14:42
  Staples is another organization I've worked that's done some very tangible things and also
• 14:47
  seeing results.
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  But they also recognize that seeing results takes time.
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  And that it really you know, involves a lot.
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  It involves investment from the senior leadership team, not just money, but actual
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  investment.
• 15:00
  We're behind this program.
• 15:02
  We're going to endorse it and we're going to practice the same kinds of behaviors as we
• 15:06
  expect our leaders and our employees to demonstrate and that constant sponsorship, of
• 15:12
  course, they've been Bell in Bell's case.
• 15:13
  They've been actively involved in the let's talk initiative outside of the workplace.
• 15:18
  And they've seemed to marry that very nicely with what's happening inside their workplace.
• 15:21
  So I know that change is possible.
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  You know, Have they invested money?
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  Yes.
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  But are they making money?
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  Is there a return on investment?
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  Yes.
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  The answer is yes.
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  There is return on investment, but it takes really taking a a comprehensive look.
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  And I'll just point out one more thing, that you mentioned, I think, is worth it.
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  You know, we we've gotten better at dealing with broken arms and injuries and accidents and
• 15:45
  hazards.
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  You know, many of us nowadays are knowledge workers anyway.
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  So it you know, we are keen with our brains.
• 15:51
  But even in the workplaces where injuries were happening, businesses have really because of
• 15:55
  laws in in Canada, have really invested heavily in making sure people are protected and they're
• 16:00
  first aid first aid is on-site.
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  So the number of physical claims has really decreased.
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  But what I'm hearing from people is the number of mental health claims is just increasing and
• 16:10
  increasing because the workplace has no strategy for being able to deal with them.
• 16:14
  And that's.
• 16:15
  So I guess that's where we're gonna see policy kind of being morph as we go because truly,
• 16:20
  like, I mean, with, you know, WSEB and and what has happened on on that end, we're not really
• 16:25
  seeing that concern anymore.
• 16:27
  But as we're seeing through the World Health organization, the impact of depression and
• 16:31
  anxiety, it's just shooting through the roof.
• 16:34
  But Bell is a a a fantastic example, and you said also Staples.
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  The but you know what?
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  If you're an employer or a leader out there or CEO of a small company, And you're gonna say,
• 16:44
  you know, that's all well and good.
• 16:46
  I don't have to deep pockets like, you know, the bells of the world.
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  What would you say to,
• 16:52
  you know, say maybe somebody at with a smaller company that's thinking, you know, I have these
• 16:57
  concerns.
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  What kind of things could I start to do or what strategy should I start to, think about
• 17:04
  investing in, even if I don't have as much to invest in in in wellness?
• 17:10
  Right.
• 17:10
  And I think that's that's always a challenge.
• 17:12
  It doesn't have to be a huge financial investment.
• 17:15
  It can be a couple things.
• 17:16
  So 1st and foremost, the national, standard for logical health and safety that I was talking
• 17:21
  about, outlines different strategies for large employers, midsized employers, and even small
• 17:27
  employers where you have like 15 people for example, in a workplace about what they can do.
• 17:32
  One thing that's really important is that they need to have somebody in the workplace who's an
• 17:36
  owner of that project and sponsorship from leaders.
• 17:39
  And then to target, you know, what is it that we wanna see improve in the workplace?
• 17:43
  You know, where are the gaps?
• 17:44
  That we're seeing, you know, is it that we've got a lot of employees who are struggling with
• 17:49
  mental health issues and going off on short term disability, What can we do to support
• 17:53
  those people a little bit earlier?
• 17:54
  So part of that, you know, maybe, just looking at how to change support behaviors in the
• 17:59
  workplace and help people understand resources are actually available, out there.
• 18:05
  And I know that, you know, money may not always be the easiest thing, but just to look and say,
• 18:09
  you know, can we train some in this workplace to help you more responsive as somebody is
• 18:13
  struggling, and help that person get access to resources a little bit sooner.
• 18:18
  Because, you know, part of it is there's a breakdown.
• 18:20
  You know, there's especially in in some sectors, you know, there's this need for people
• 18:24
  to be on a 150% all the time.
• 18:28
  And there's really not a lot of opportunity for introspection about, you know, what happens
• 18:33
  when I'm not feeling at my best, right, keeping those those appearances up.
• 18:36
  So there are, campaigns that people can invest in.
• 18:40
  There's one called not myself, today at work.
• 18:42
  There's free you can invest in a free version of it if you're an employer, or a low cost
• 18:47
  version, even just starting to have that conversation about mental health, and
• 18:52
  encouraging maybe leaders to start talking about mental health challenges with their teams
• 18:56
  and say there's times that it's stressful here.
• 18:57
  And then we know that, you know, we're we're always on them at a 1,000,000%.
• 19:01
  But if there's times that okay, to set some boundaries.
• 19:03
  And there are times when we need help and resources, and here's where to find them.
• 19:08
  So, you know, taking some ownership of encouraging people to seek help.
• 19:13
  One of the most powerful things I've seen in small workplaces is when a leader themselves or
• 19:17
  somebody who's in a position leader shares their own personal situation.
• 19:22
  Somebody who's successful at work and people look up to and and, you know, will say, listen,
• 19:27
  I live with an anxiety disorder, and I've been living with it for 25 years.
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  And I know that there are people here just like me who struggle, and I want you to know that
• 19:36
  there's help.
• 19:37
  Right?
• 19:37
  I'm doing well.
• 19:38
  There's resources.
• 19:39
  You can come talk about it with me if you need to.
• 19:42
  Because sometimes a person who's struggling on their own may so be so afraid or not know where
• 19:47
  to turn for help.
• 19:48
  So a colleague or a leader who has some some skills and some training can really be an
• 19:54
  encouraging force for that person to start taking steps to get better.
• 19:58
  And at the workplace, even without spending a lot of money, just having more supportive
• 20:02
  policies, you know, it's it's not so much about the whats is the the how, you know, my body
• 20:09
  language, you know, am I showing the person that I'm interested and I'm caring, are we
• 20:14
  really open to having this conversation with person?
• 20:16
  You know, do they really feel like they're part of a team and a valued member of our team no
• 20:21
  matter what during the good times and the bad times?
• 20:23
  And I think if you can start sending that kind of message out people that were a family and we
• 20:27
  take care of each other.
• 20:29
  And, you know, we'd have each other's box.
• 20:32
  People feel supported Right.
• 20:34
  Because, I mean, everybody like gone of the days, and I heard that, you know, 10 years ago,
• 20:39
  we're doing so much more with less.
• 20:40
  And I know that the the world the way of the world with globalization, things are getting,
• 20:45
  you know, busier and busier.
• 20:47
  And there's more competition for your, you know, for market share and lots of different
• 20:52
  sectors.
• 20:52
  So we know how that's going.
• 20:53
  So it's it's not slowing down.
• 20:55
  It's it's it's it's accelerating that much more.
• 20:58
  So, really, all we can do is look at what kind of things.
• 21:01
  And I talk a lot about, being, you know, relationally transparent.
• 21:06
  So if I am I if I am your leader and I am literally looking, you know, making it seem
• 21:11
  that everything's okay, and there's people around me that are kinda dying on the vine.
• 21:16
  I'm so disconnected that I'm not recognizing that I'm I may be stressed, and I'm able to put
• 21:22
  it together, but how am I accepting the differences with people around me to support
• 21:27
  them in whatever way that they need to be supported.
• 21:30
  Right.
• 21:31
  That's a challenge for leaders sometimes.
• 21:33
  I I think, first of all, many leaders I've managed on a lot of training with business
• 21:37
  leaders and with mid level leaders, a lot of them struggle themselves.
• 21:41
  Anytime we have conversations about mental health and workplace, I usually will see if I
• 21:44
  have twenty five people in the room.
• 21:46
  I'll usually see, you know, probably about 80% of them that are really engaged in the topic.
• 21:52
  And sometimes people get so comfortable that they'll share their own now.
• 21:54
  More and more now share their own experiences.
• 21:57
  And then I see about 20% of people, who just are so uncomfortable with the topic.
• 22:02
  Sometimes they seem so awkward because they're not used to having conversations about it.
• 22:06
  And that it's funny that 20%, you know, maybe about 2 or 3 of them just really are quiet the
• 22:11
  whole time.
• 22:13
  And, you know, it's easy to assume that they don't really care.
• 22:15
  There's a lot diigma, but what happens often is it's those 1 or 2 people that will come to me
• 22:20
  in private after the session or find me on LinkedIn and say, I'm really struggling for a
• 22:25
  long time myself.
• 22:26
  You know, we're talking about helping employees.
• 22:28
  I'm scared, you know, because I think I have depression And my life feels like it's falling
• 22:34
  apart.
• 22:34
  So I think that, you know, leaders do struggle.
• 22:38
  Sometimes they're good at at covering up.
• 22:39
  And and once in a while, right, we all have good coping skills, but it's also recognizing
• 22:43
  that any single one of us, we're and we'd sort of talk about there's a continuum might be,
• 22:48
  might be feeling overwhelmed right now with lots of things that are going on.
• 22:51
  And, you know, stress at work is just one more of those things that's going on where I might
• 22:55
  be really excited and engaged most days, you know, right now with everything else that's
• 22:59
  going on.
• 22:59
  I just can't put that happy face on.
• 23:02
  So I think 1st and foremost leaders need to recognize that.
• 23:05
  Like, am I seeing something that's different?
• 23:07
  Right, in this persona, are they quieter?
• 23:09
  Are they, you know, maybe not participating as much meetings?
• 23:13
  Are they you know, maybe they're performing well enough, but I'm starting to notice maybe
• 23:18
  they're late or, you know, they just don't seem to be putting the same emphasis at work.
• 23:21
  And well before it gets to a place where there's a performance issue to get to lean into
• 23:26
  that space and just say, hey, you know, I'm I'm I'm concerned about you.
• 23:29
  You know, we know each other.
• 23:31
  And, you know, is there something I can do to help?
• 23:34
  Right?
• 23:34
  That kind of conversation.
• 23:36
  And when we see leaders who can have that conversation, you usually see employees you
• 23:40
  feel connected and supports and leaders.
• 23:42
  So it's just about important
• 23:44
  that.
• 23:44
  I'm sure you've been in environments where you've seen both, and I have been in multiple
• 23:47
  environments.
• 23:48
  Why I've seen leaders, and I think if only we can clone him or her.
• 23:52
  Right?
• 23:53
  And then there's others that you think, oh my goodness, you know, and and they're still going
• 23:57
  up the ranks.
• 23:58
  Right?
• 23:59
  Yeah.
• 23:59
  That's the that's the thing.
• 24:01
  And that and they're they're still performing.
• 24:03
  They're still, helping the company get what they need to.
• 24:06
  And then what do we say?
• 24:08
  To employers like that to employees that are seeing that, and they're saying, well, really
• 24:13
  what repercussions are there or or accountability is there for companies that are
• 24:18
  having someone still climb that is really, I'm gonna call them inauthentic versus ones that
• 24:23
  are authentic.
• 24:24
  It's a challenge.
• 24:25
  Like, you and I have talked about this in the past, leaders don't necessarily get training
• 24:31
  around being and a lot of employers don't identify people to be leaders who have
• 24:34
  leadership commonencies, you know, that that make them authentic leaders that connect with
• 24:39
  people.
• 24:40
  They look at people who've demonstrated a high level of skill on their job and they decide,
• 24:43
  okay, since they were really good at, we could make them a leader of, and that's a challenge.
• 24:48
  And there's a lot of employers who, instead of looking at job fit for leaders, they just
• 24:52
  promote people.
• 24:54
  And sometimes those folks don't have the competencies.
• 24:57
  I I firmly believe if they want to, they can learn them.
• 25:00
  Right?
• 25:00
  People can learn empathy.
• 25:02
  They can, for the most part, can learn to be better listeners.
• 25:05
  There's skills that make a difference.
• 25:08
  The workplace has to reinforce those skills.
• 25:10
  So, you know, if they see somebody climbing, they they need to recognize, you know, what
• 25:14
  what's happening?
• 25:15
  Is this person doing well in the workplace?
• 25:17
  What's happening to the employees beneath them?
• 25:19
  You know?
• 25:20
  At a certain point, I'm I'm gonna say a leader who, you know, gone are those days where you
• 25:25
  can be an abuse of harsh leader in a workplace and expect people to perform.
• 25:29
  So at a certain point, that leader's gonna crash.
• 25:32
  People coming into the workplace now new younger generations expect to have leaders that
• 25:37
  are more authentic and vulnerable and connected and they're not getting that or they're not
• 25:40
  feeling supported, their performance is gonna start declining.
• 25:43
  And eventually, the leader's gonna have a number of team members with declining
• 25:46
  performance in the workplace is gonna start saying, you know, we can only replace so many
• 25:50
  people.
• 25:50
  Why is there so much turnover on your team?
• 25:52
  Why are we losing people who seem to have such a promising start in this organization only to
• 25:57
  see them flounder?
• 25:58
  So I think workplaces actually start taking a look at leaders like that.
• 26:02
  And hopefully, you know, from a prevention standpoint, they start recognizing it's really
• 26:07
  important to invest in leader training.
• 26:10
  Absolutely.
• 26:10
  Because they may attract them, but but can you retain them?
• 26:13
  Right?
• 26:13
  So if you have all these young leaders that are, you know, bringing so many things to them.
• 26:18
  And then there's that continual, attrition of them not being able to keep people their their
• 26:25
  human capital, then at that point, it speaks to, okay, what what's happening here in the
• 26:29
  leadership team that you're not able to keep these people, grow these people, and have them
• 26:34
  kind of, stay.
• 26:35
  And, you know, not that gone are the days where people stay for, you know, 30 years.
• 26:41
  But at least have that, trajectory where they're, you know, growing it within the
• 26:45
  company, and then maybe they leave for different reasons, not because they're thinking
• 26:48
  this is an unhealthy environment for me.
• 26:50
  Right.
• 26:51
  That's a it's a interesting point.
• 26:53
  And I think there is often we hear about it.
• 26:56
  You know, there are people who come into a workplace, and they don't leave because they
• 26:59
  like the work they're doing.
• 27:01
  They don't like the people and they don't like the culture.
• 27:03
  So part of really understanding and promoting a mentally healthy, psychologically safe
• 27:08
  workplace starts looking at culture and looking what's going on and what kind of culture do you
• 27:12
  wanna, you know, project in the workplace?
• 27:14
  And some workplaces have to take a a really hard look at some of the behaviors like
• 27:18
  incivility that go on.
• 27:20
  Replace the national standard again that I I talked about, identifies different competencies
• 27:26
  and variables for workplaces to look at.
• 27:28
  And, you know, leadership development is one of them.
• 27:32
  You know, the culture of the workplace the level of civility and respect.
• 27:37
  So those kinds of things, you know, we have to, you have to think about, you know, are we a
• 27:42
  welcoming culture?
• 27:43
  Do we take care of our people?
• 27:45
  Do we understand what the psychological demands are on people, you know, like the type of work
• 27:50
  they do?
• 27:51
  And I think that's another area employers, like gotten good at doing is understanding the
• 27:56
  different psychological demands or stressors that people face on the job, you know, whether
• 28:01
  it's trying to compete in this high, you know, high energy 20 fourseven, 365 environment, and
• 28:07
  there's a lot of people like that or, people like, for example, paramedics or, you know,
• 28:14
  emergency room personnel who face really high levels of traumatic imagery every single day or
• 28:19
  dealing with people, in acute distress, it's helping give them tools to be able to adjust to
• 28:25
  their environment.
• 28:26
  That's a a major, area of just understanding, you know, what's going on.
• 28:30
  So even a small employer can do that start to say, you know, what kinds of stressors are
• 28:35
  people facing in the workplace?
• 28:37
  What can we do to give them better tools, and I'll call those coping skills, right, little
• 28:42
  micro skills that they have to deal with the kinds of challenges that they're in.
• 28:46
  Rather than just kind of throwing them to the wind and letting them figure it out.
• 28:50
  So again, employers can start looking at that and leaders can also start looking at how can I
• 28:55
  encourage my team members to develop problem solving skills and stress management skills?
• 29:01
  How can we sit down and have conversations about the challenges that we're having in our
• 29:04
  environment and work things out together as a team.
• 29:07
  That kind of stuff.
• 29:08
  So it makes a a huge difference in terms of promoting better mental health in the
• 29:13
  workplace.
• 29:13
  Right?
• 29:14
  Even making it okay to say, you know what?
• 29:16
  Today, I'm not feeling great.
• 29:18
  You know, I'm really I'm just having a bad day and people understand that.
• 29:22
  That happens sometimes, you know, and there's support.
• 29:24
  And who can't and who can't relate to that?
• 29:26
  We've all had those.
• 29:26
  So you think, oh, this is gonna be that kind of day and being able to say that to even your
• 29:31
  team around you or whatever because I'm sure within your team, people have also felt the
• 29:35
  same.
• 29:35
  And then if if you're the leader and you say that, then they go, oh, okay.
• 29:39
  Well, if he or she is able to to to share that, what they're feeling internally, then it's
• 29:44
  like, okay to say, you know, yeah.
• 29:45
  Well, I, you know, had a sick kid last night or, my mom or dad's ailing or, you know,
• 29:51
  whatever's going on because like we know, people bring themselves to work.
• 29:55
  And, you know, I also often think it's like that wheel Like, most of us can kind of have
• 30:01
  that wheel continue, but if there's too many stressors going on in the different systems in
• 30:05
  people's lives, eventually, you know, they're gonna need that mental break to be able to kind
• 30:10
  of figure out what they need to put in place to start functioning as best as possible we all I
• 30:15
  I can think of multiple times in my career that I've gone through that.
• 30:19
  Right?
• 30:19
  Me too.
• 30:20
  And I I can remember myself being a leader, and I think I'm pretty vulnerable generally with
• 30:26
  people.
• 30:26
  No.
• 30:26
  I try to I have there's boundaries around all of it, but to let people know once in a while
• 30:30
  that it's a hard time.
• 30:31
  Or even as a team to say right now, you know, we're going through a lot change.
• 30:34
  I can see people's nerves are frazzled.
• 30:36
  Let's talk about it.
• 30:37
  You know, mine aren't you.
• 30:38
  It's okay to feel frazzled.
• 30:40
  Let's talk about what we can control in this environment.
• 30:43
  I happen to have a a leader, you know, Jerry Smith, Blake Jerry Smith was my leader.
• 30:48
  And he really exemplified, like, authenticity as a leader.
• 30:52
  He was just Yes.
• 30:53
  Just checked in with people, and he made it his business to check-in.
• 30:56
  Not to force you to share anything you didn't want to, but just to come and sit by your desk
• 31:00
  or give you a phone call and say, how's your week?
• 31:03
  And I you can talk about business, but he's saying, but really, how are you how are you
• 31:06
  coping with it all?
• 31:08
  Sounds like that was a bit stress for you.
• 31:10
  What what can I do to help support you around that if it happens again?
• 31:13
  That kind of stuff, like I said, that goes such a long way to making somebody wanna come to
• 31:17
  work you when they're having a bad day because they know that it's okay.
• 31:21
  You know, it's okay to say, hey, I'm having a bad day and I need a little bit of support
• 31:24
  today.
• 31:25
  And also understand that somebody else might be having a bad day tomorrow, and we can be there
• 31:28
  to support each other.
• 31:30
  Right?
• 31:30
  And I think it's just kindness and gentleness, right, because we all levels that we were
• 31:34
  working at when we worked together.
• 31:36
  It was the pace was high.
• 31:37
  We were traveling.
• 31:38
  We were doing lots of different things.
• 31:40
  But even the kindnesses of the gentleness or just you know, if I if if I knew my team, I've
• 31:45
  I could come in and kind of talk to them about my worlds.
• 31:48
  And but like you said, with a within professional boundaries and all those things,
• 31:52
  but then I could just kinda understand that I may be traveling for the next 3 days, but I I
• 31:56
  still feel that connection when I do come back to the office to be able to let people know
• 32:01
  that, you know, other than business, this is kind of what's happening in my world.
• 32:03
  And I think that just creates a a space that allows you to to just relax and be yourself.
• 32:10
  And, ultimately, if I'm functioning, then, of course, you're you're gonna get maximum
• 32:14
  productivity from me.
• 32:15
  If I feel like I can't relate and I, you know, I'm stressed or, you know, business is
• 32:20
  stressful and home is stressful and lots is going on, that's where I we get into that
• 32:24
  concept of presenteeism, which is con the concept for others who have maybe never heard
• 32:28
  that term is, I show up at work, I give you maybe 60% of productivity.
• 32:33
  You know, I I fly under the radar.
• 32:36
  I don't go off on anything, but you don't get me a 100%.
• 32:39
  Or, you know, at that optimal functioning, which is what a lot of people do.
• 32:42
  And that's a hard thing to measure.
• 32:44
  You're like, presenteeism is challenging because you could have someone at work, of
• 32:47
  course, not really working.
• 32:48
  Or you
• 32:49
  guys don't wanna work and they're just going through the motions and they're getting the job
• 32:52
  done, but they're not feeling really good about being at work.
• 32:55
  And sometimes harder for them to identify.
• 32:57
  So again, as, you know, a leader, it's okay.
• 32:59
  It's about saying, you know what?
• 33:00
  If you're not okay, it's okay not to be okay.
• 33:03
  You know, there's there's resources we have that are here to help support you if you're
• 33:07
  having a bit of a difficult time.
• 33:09
  And let's talk.
• 33:10
  You know, if there's anything I can do to support you and, and let's talk about what may
• 33:14
  make a difference here in your work world.
• 33:15
  So, again, I wanna point out, you know, when we give people opportunity also to connect and and
• 33:21
  to add value.
• 33:22
  And I'll use the word a little bit of latitude on their job, right, involvement in students.
• 33:27
  We generally see employees who feel a lot more appreciated at work too.
• 33:31
  So there's lots of things leaders can do to really, make a difference.
• 33:35
  Lots of things employers can do to really make a difference it's really about having
• 33:41
  conversations with people, maybe sometimes one on 1, sometimes in a broader context about, you
• 33:46
  know, all of us struggle.
• 33:47
  Right?
• 33:48
  And there's options here to support you here if you need them.
• 33:51
  And and
• 33:52
  that your strategy should should be aligned with your sector and your demographics of your
• 33:58
  population and your age and the type of work.
• 34:01
  It's this there's no one fit all And, I mean, I know with me, when I worked with companies, you
• 34:06
  know, over my tenure with, health and wellness, every environment was different There were
• 34:12
  certain, you know, if it was a female environment like health care, work life balance
• 34:16
  was important, shift work, accommodation, child care related concerns.
• 34:21
  So I think it's recognizing what is the need to keep people mentally well and at work for the
• 34:27
  most part.
• 34:28
  And you know, and then if people do go off work that we're treating them the same as if it's a
• 34:34
  medical concern, And I I know with return to work programs that have initially when we were
• 34:39
  at the inception of of what, you know, kind of being involved at that end, that people would,
• 34:45
  you know, get the phone call or the card, just the same.
• 34:48
  That was something that I know was slower coming and hopefully I would think that that's
• 34:53
  probably happening a lot more with the return to work today.
• 34:55
  Would you say that that's happening?
• 34:57
  Okay.
• 34:57
  One of
• 34:58
  the things we really encourage workplaces to do is create first of all, have connections.
• 35:02
  We have connections with people, all the time.
• 35:06
  I am, you know, whatever the reason that someone's off, whether it's you know, a
• 35:09
  maternity leave or a disability leave, you know, having connections with people so that
• 35:13
  they feel connected to the workplace that they know that they're part of that extended family
• 35:19
  in the workplace.
• 35:21
  One thing that can really help, of course, is if somebody is away from work is having their
• 35:25
  leader connect with them.
• 35:27
  If assuming the employee wants to hear from them, but just having that connection, it's not
• 35:30
  a work connection here.
• 35:31
  It's just a a a personal connection to talk.
• 35:33
  You know, to say, I'm thinking about you.
• 35:36
  I'm wishing you well.
• 35:37
  Right?
• 35:37
  Maybe update them on some some non stressful news happening in the work environment just to
• 35:42
  to help them feel connected and to hear a little bit about what's going on in their
• 35:45
  environment.
• 35:45
  That makes it so much easier for someone who's been off work and maybe feels afraid.
• 35:50
  You know, let's face it.
• 35:51
  If you're a high performing employee and you suddenly start to go through a really difficult
• 35:55
  time in your life and maybe your performance and your relationships that work starts to
• 35:59
  suffer, you you're probably pretty scared about what's gonna happen when you get to work.
• 36:03
  And not only that, I mean, you've got a person also living the symptoms of health condition
• 36:07
  and managing the treatment and their own, you know, cell stigma about what's happening to
• 36:12
  them, all that stuff.
• 36:13
  So having people who can connect them and say I'm here.
• 36:17
  You know, I'm ready to to connect and and I'm here to support you when you get back to work.
• 36:22
  Makes a big difference.
• 36:23
  Right?
• 36:24
  That person's gonna feel a lot more supported when they get back.
• 36:26
  It makes the transition a lot better.
• 36:28
  And, you know, there's things that employers can do.
• 36:30
  I'll start richer to improve outcomes when somebody who's been on disability leave comes
• 36:34
  back to work.
• 36:36
  One of them is to make sure that people have the opportunity to return a gradual on a
• 36:39
  gradual process.
• 36:41
  We know that progressive return to work, for example, makes a really big difference.
• 36:44
  It's a best practice in most industries that have large insurers managing their disability
• 36:49
  claims or large disability management companies.
• 36:51
  In small employers, I don't always see that sometimes back after being waived for, you
• 36:56
  know, 4 to 6 months for whatever the the reason.
• 36:58
  It could be multiple reasons, and they're, like, right back on the job.
• 37:02
  So it's really important to to be connect with employee, their medical provider, and consider,
• 37:07
  you know, they may be ready to come back on a very short term basis or gradual basis, and
• 37:12
  that part of their treatment plan.
• 37:13
  That actually helps them feel better helps them build their self esteem and their stamina a
• 37:17
  little by little so that they can get back to, where they're best.
• 37:22
  You know, so I I think there's lots of little things again that workplaces can really look at
• 37:27
  that do make a difference in terms supporting the mental health of their people.
• 37:32
  And there's, you know, even if you pick 1 strategy to focus on and champion, it makes a
• 37:38
  difference.
• 37:39
  Right?
• 37:40
  If you're truly invested in, doesn't have to be money investment as much as sometimes time
• 37:44
  investment.
• 37:45
  So let's talk about what you do out there.
• 37:47
  And if ever, you know, you're doing lots of things, you're doing lots of training,
• 37:50
  consulting, you know, So where could if people are wanting to have a conversation with you,
• 37:56
  there could be a small employer that's lucky.
• 37:58
  Like you said, a lot of small employers may not have, return to work policies or things in
• 38:04
  place.
• 38:05
  I know you do some work with that.
• 38:06
  Where can people get a hold of you and what kind of things do you do out there that people
• 38:10
  might be aware of and that and where can they reach you?
• 38:13
  So I'll send you a link to how to contact me.
• 38:15
  I have a website.
• 38:16
  It's called the stewedmaslyn.com.
• 38:19
  The the type of work I do, I it really ranges, but one of the things I'm really invested in
• 38:23
  doing with employers large or small is talking about how they can enhance mental health and
• 38:27
  And I'm talking about mental health, not just dealing with mental ill health, but improving
• 38:32
  outcomes for people, making the workplace a better place come to.
• 38:36
  You know, partnering with businesses like yours to help support better leadership skills
• 38:41
  development.
• 38:42
  So, you know, one area that I really am focusing now with smaller employers is helping
• 38:48
  them understand where they can make a difference in terms of that are managing some
• 38:53
  of the disability claims they have and looking at things like opportunities to support an
• 38:58
  employees who are struggling.
• 38:59
  If you don't have an infrastructure where you've got employee and family assistance
• 39:03
  programs and a disability carrier and a lot of small organizations They've got an HR
• 39:07
  professional who's also their occupational health and safety professional and their
• 39:11
  manager of operations and has a, you know, myriad of responsibilities you know, how can
• 39:16
  how can we come in and be a bridge to support them, when they're dealing with situations,
• 39:21
  whether they've got somebody maybe who is starting to struggle and they don't know what
• 39:24
  to do.
• 39:25
  How to support them in identifying options to keep that person functioning well at work.
• 39:30
  If they're capable of staying at work, and how to connect with that person if they are away
• 39:35
  and help to transition them back into the workplace.
• 39:37
  So that's one area I I work in.
• 39:39
  I am seeing a lot, a big spike, of course, also in workplaces where they don't know how to deal
• 39:44
  with mental health crises.
• 39:46
  And, you know, in a larger workplace, you know, the larger your workplace, the more likely you
• 39:50
  are to see someone who is in crisis that could be things like suicide.
• 39:54
  I hear a lot about that.
• 39:55
  I've had recently a few employers call me where they've gone employees who have active
• 39:59
  psychosis, and they're having active psychotic episodes at work.
• 40:03
  And it's scary for the employee.
• 40:06
  It's scary for the workplace.
• 40:07
  It's scary for the team.
• 40:08
  So around how to manage that, how to to diffuse, crises.
• 40:12
  So a lot of work again around mental health for state skills.
• 40:15
  So I'm a an instructor for the mental health commission.
• 40:17
  And helping employers learn those skills, you know, so they've got somebody on board.
• 40:22
  You know, again, whether it's that small HR person or a couple of identified people who can
• 40:27
  be there, to help deescalate mental health crises, anxiety attacks.
• 40:32
  Again, panic attacks happen very frequently at work.
• 40:34
  So these, you know, skills can be learned.
• 40:36
  They don't take a lot of time to learn, and they're not all that costly.
• 40:39
  You can take a mental health or 1st day course in in and around, pretty much anywhere in
• 40:43
  Canada for about a 195 to $250 for 2 day course, and learn skills that actually can make
• 40:51
  a difference and even save an employee's life.
• 40:54
  So those are things that I'm sort of seeing spike now because Small employers sometimes
• 40:59
  really struggle.
• 41:00
  And Of course.
• 41:01
  Of course.
• 41:02
  Real crisis on their hands.
• 41:04
  Like
• 41:04
  I said, I've had a few where, suicide risk been high or there has been a death by suicide and
• 41:09
  they're they're coping with the aftermath and realizing we needed to do something different
• 41:13
  here.
• 41:13
  So that that kind of areas of growth area.
• 41:16
  I'd like to see people getting ahead of that curve.
• 41:19
  Right.
• 41:19
  But understanding that there these are real risk that take place and and that they can be
• 41:24
  there are tools that are not expensive that they can use to help manage them.
• 41:29
  So there's some point to start, and it doesn't per se take a lot of money.
• 41:33
  Correct.
• 41:34
  You know, like I said, it it may be, identifying 1 or 2 key people in your
• 41:39
  workplace, putting them through a course like mental health first aid, just so they learn
• 41:44
  some basic skills.
• 41:46
  Maybe doing a little bit of work with leaders, right, to help them out, so understand that
• 41:50
  sometimes they're on the forefront of being able to see when somebody might be starting to
• 41:54
  struggle because they have that day to day relationship with their team members.
• 41:58
  And even if there's not a lot of money for skills development, the the leaders, you know,
• 42:01
  if they've got someone that they can come to internally, that can support them to have a
• 42:07
  better conversation with their team member, it will make a difference.
• 42:10
  Awesome.
• 42:10
  Well, this has been amazing, and I know you and I can probably talk for hours because we're we
• 42:15
  work in the same wheelhouse.
• 42:17
  So, again, thanks so much for spending the time with us.
• 42:20
  And for, anyone listening, I think it's, you know, it's going back to, again, the basics.
• 42:25
  Yes.
• 42:26
  We are living, you know, in that, that's knowledge economy today.
• 42:32
  And we are using, or bring capacity so much more than we're probably realizing.
• 42:37
  You talked a bit about blue lights and the impact of you know, are young people not being
• 42:43
  able to have basic conversations, where they co can co create connection.
• 42:48
  So that's being lost.
• 42:50
  And, you know, some of the basics about Sundays at my Sundays at my house, we were either this
• 42:55
  is the Caribbean, though, at the beach or we were having naps on a Sunday, but we were all
• 42:59
  home.
• 42:59
  So some really, really simple things that now we've lost where now we're at 24 7, 7 days a
• 43:06
  week connected and, in that space, and that's really depleting our our mental well-being and
• 43:12
  not mental illness because that's a spectrum because oftentimes it's a it's a small
• 43:17
  percentage of population that would end up on that on that end of the spectrum.
• 43:22
  So being aware that there's things you can do obviously to reach out to people like, Suen,
• 43:27
  should you need, some information as an employer that's fantastic so she could
• 43:31
  strategize and around my wheelhouses around authentic leadership.
• 43:37
  So as a leader, I offer, skill development and coaching in that arena.
• 43:41
  So if you're ever needing any information on me, please, go to Roxanne Derhodge Consulting.
• 43:47
  Okay.
• 43:47
  Take care, and thanks again, Suanna, and we'll chat with you soon.
• 43:50
  Oh, my pleasure, then.
• 43:52
  Okay.
• 43:53
  Take care.
• 43:54
  Thanks for tuning in to authentic living with Roxanne, creating the space for positive
• 44:00
  healthy chain.
• 44:01
  Roxanne is a keynote speaker, psychotherapist, and coach to work with Roxanne, visit Roxanne
• 44:08
  Durgesh dotcom/blueprint.
• 44:11
  We'll see you next time on authentic living with Roxanne.