Latest / The Joe Rogan Experience / #2569 - Bill Thompson

Transcript

#2569 - Bill Thompson · The Joe Rogan Experience

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: The joe rogan experience train.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: By day joe rogan podcast by night all day.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: Put the microphone in front of your face so we
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: can use this what are you saying.
• 0:17
  Speaker 3: Some people think the stuff about the roadster online was
• 0:20
  Speaker 3: like you know it's not real.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: It's 100 real my friend.
• 0:23
  Speaker 3: Was there no not i so i'm even like words
• 0:27
  Speaker 3: are tough to You have to use your words very carefully.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: Well, here's the thing. Will it be available in the
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: general public? Right.
• 0:33
  Speaker 4: Probably not.
• 0:34
  Speaker 5: No.
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: How could you use it? How could you make that
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: legal where you have a car that can fly over
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: other cars if there's a traffic stop?
• 0:41
  Speaker 3: Like I'm trying to– I guess what some people are saying,
• 0:44
  Speaker 3: it's like the– A test model car.
• 0:48
  Speaker 4: This is the concept car.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: First of all, it probably won't be released anywhere near
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: when they say it's going to be released just based
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: on what he's done in the past. I mean, the Roadster,
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of people that paid $ 250, 000 for the
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: Roadster in 2017. I know a guy who did that. Yeah,
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: I know a guy who did that too. And imagine
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: you did that back then and you were expecting that car.
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: You got a completely different design. Yeah, I mean completely
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: different looking car now. It has the fucking Lamborghini doors Yeah,
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: and it flies What? This guy's nuts!
• 1:22
  Speaker 6: I would- He's so out of his mind. He's got
• 1:26
  Speaker 6: too much money.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: He just does whatever the fuck he wants.
• 1:28
  Speaker 4: I'm not with the people saying it's fake with wires
• 1:30
  Speaker 4: and stuff.
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: Some people said that there was wires on cranes and yeah,
• 1:33
  Speaker 3: I don't- I'm not buying that.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: No, well there is already a car that does that
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: trick where it can go upside down. There's this- Really?
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: There's this race car. Oh god, I forget the name
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: of it. But it actually has a fan underneath the
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: bottom of the car that acts as a suction. And
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: this car does insane lap times because it's absolutely glued
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: to the ground.
• 1:54
  Speaker 6: Perfect handling.
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, perfect handling. And it's only a one-seater car. McMurtry Spur.
• 2:00
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: Let me try to find a video. Put some headphones on.
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: Watch this thing. See if you can find it. It's
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: a hyper. Yeah, see, that's it. It goes upside down.
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: This thing is literally crazy. It blows away all of
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: the lap times on every single racetrack. Because, first of all,
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: it's really light, really tiny, has insane power because it's
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: all electric. And it has so much suction at the
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: bottom that it can go upside down. So they were
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: the first ones to at least demo this type of tech.
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: And they did it on this car. Like this car
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: literally has so much suction. Give me some volume so
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: you can hear this. So this is a literal suction
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: cup underneath the engine that's allowing this thing to hold
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: its entire body weight, which has got to be, like,
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: I would imagine at least close to 2,000 pounds.
• 2:52
  Speaker 6: It's one of those carbon fiber bodies.
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: Even if it is, with the engines and the batteries.
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: So if it was a... A combustion engine car, maybe
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: it could be under 2,000 pounds. There's a few Porsches.
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: They make some really old resto mod Porsches from the
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: 1960s and early 1970s that can get under 2,000 pounds.
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: There's this guy that worked for, God, I think he
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: worked for Bugatti or something like that. One of those
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: crazy high-tech car companies, and he built a car that
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: was completely the opposite. He built a car where he
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: stripped everything out of it. He made like a 1969 Porsche,
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: stripped everything out of it, made all of the panels fiberglass,
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: and he got it to like 1,800 pounds. Wow. And
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: the idea is like that is like the most visceral
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: driving experience, the most connected you are to a car,
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: the lighter they are. The heavier they are, they can
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: get really crazy with performance. Like my Tesla is probably
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: like 4,000 pounds, but it's like a time machine.
• 4:00
  Speaker 6: Isn't the Cybertruck like seven or eight or something like that?
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: Well, that's even bigger, right? I have the Model S,
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: but the Cybertruck, it's all cold stamp steel. I think
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: that's the type of steel, but it's– Incredibly heavy.
• 4:13
  Speaker 6: I ordered one of those and then I ended up
• 4:14
  Speaker 6: pulling out. I kind of regret it. I don't know.
• 4:16
  Speaker 6: I just, I wanted one. I loved it. I just
• 4:19
  Speaker 6: liked the idea of it. It's very seldom that I
• 4:20
  Speaker 6: would look at a car and just smile every time
• 4:22
  Speaker 6: I looked at a car. And every time I looked
• 4:24
  Speaker 6: at that Cybertruck, I just smiled. So I was like,
• 4:27
  Speaker 6: I kind of want one of those. And then I
• 4:28
  Speaker 6: put the money down and my wife was like, what.
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: Are you doing?
• 4:31
  Speaker 6: And I was like, I want one. Like I've always
• 4:33
  Speaker 6: been a Ford guy. So I've got like a Ford Tremor,
• 4:36
  Speaker 6: which I love that truck. And so I put the
• 4:39
  Speaker 6: money down and then I started hearing like other guys
• 4:41
  Speaker 6: got them and they're like, oh, there's some issues and
• 4:43
  Speaker 6: bugs being worked out. So I was a coward and
• 4:44
  Speaker 6: I pulled out. I shouldn't have done it, but I did.
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: Well, you can get one now.
• 4:47
  Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah.
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: I mean, they're making, I'm sure they make them better now.
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: I'm sure they're.
• 4:52
  Speaker 6: Oh, yeah.
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: They figured out whatever the kinks were.
• 4:54
  Speaker 6: Any other thing.
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 4:55
  Speaker 6: The first generation, it's going to have kinks that have
• 4:57
  Speaker 6: to be worked out.
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but there's some issues where people are like pulling
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: the panels off and some of the panels were like
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: literally glued on, but they fixed all that stuff now.
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: So this is the thing in the air. Honestly, though,
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: completely honestly, I like the look of the original model better.
• 5:12
  Speaker 6: I do, too.
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: I think it looked cooler. The original Roadster, it looked
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: more like a modern supercar, and that looks more like
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: a Lamborghini.
• 5:22
  Speaker 6: It looks like a Lamborghini had a baby with a Cybertruck.
• 5:24
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And not even like a new Lamborghini, like a
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: Lamborghini from the 90s.
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: Which are cool.
• 5:30
  Speaker 6: Like a Countach.
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. It's just like that one is.
• 5:35
  Speaker 6: That's slick.
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: That thing's sick. That looks amazing. I mean, maybe they
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: could redo that. I don't know.
• 5:45
  Speaker 6: It's a crazy world.
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: These things are weird. It's weird that you can get
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: a car that goes zero to 60. That is going
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: to be real. It's going to go zero to 60
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: in under a second. That's fucking insane.
• 5:55
  Speaker 6: Well, at that test, it was 0.9 seconds or something
• 5:57
  Speaker 6: like that.
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's crazy.
• 5:59
  Speaker 6: That's like you're going to liquefy your insides if you
• 6:01
  Speaker 6: go any faster.
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: Well, it's half the speed of sound.
• 6:03
  Speaker 6: Right?
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: Right. I mean, it's full top speed, rather. Its top
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: speed is half the speed of sound, which is just insane.
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: I think it's like top speed is over 300 miles
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: an hour. What is half the speed of sound? Is
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: it like 380 or something? 360. 360? That's insane. That's
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: fucking insane.
• 6:24
  Speaker 6: I mean, I like going fast, but I don't know
• 6:26
  Speaker 6: if I want to go that fast.
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: I like going fast, but what I really like is
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: the feeling of a car. That's what– unless you're a
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: race car driver, all the how fast he goes is
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: all horseshit. They're all fast. Every car is fast. You
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: want to like the bargain. This is like the absolute
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: best cool car bargain. Get a Ford Mustang GT.
• 6:51
  Speaker 6: My favorite car of all time, and I've been saying
• 6:52
  Speaker 6: this for years and I've never bought one, but my
• 6:54
  Speaker 6: sister and her husband used to race Mustangs, and he
• 6:58
  Speaker 6: had a 71 Ford Mach 1 with the big back end.
• 7:03
  Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.
• 7:03
  Speaker 6: And he eventually turned it into like what they call
• 7:06
  Speaker 6: a super calm, funny car. So it became alcohol fueled.
• 7:09
  Speaker 6: And the only thing that was original was like the
• 7:10
  Speaker 6: back end, but everything else got replaced over time. It
• 7:12
  Speaker 6: was a funny car essentially. But I've been in love
• 7:15
  Speaker 6: with that car since I was like eight years old.
• 7:16
  Speaker 6: Like I just look at that and I think to myself,
• 7:18
  Speaker 6: that is like, that is muscle car par excellence. Like
• 7:21
  Speaker 6: it's the perfect.
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And those cars aren't the best to drive.
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: No.
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: They don't handle that good. No. But it's the feeling
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: that you get when you're driving them. It's like you're
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: driving a ride. Like when my kids were little, they
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: used to love this one ride at Disneyland. God, what
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: is it called? It's based on the movie Cars. It's
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: like you get in a car and you're kind of
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: steering and you're going on. It's like you're on tracks
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: and you're going around.
• 7:45
  Speaker 6: Like the Lightning McQueen car type of thing?
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I forget. There's two car rides. There's one car
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: ride where you're not steering. You're just in a car.
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: It's like a roller coaster. And there's a car next
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: to you and you're supposedly racing. This one's different. This
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: one you get in these little cars. You actually do
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: kind of steer them. Huh. And they're fun. And it's
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: not fast. But it's, like, loud and you feel the
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: steering and the engine. Like, that's what I like. I
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: like cars that engage you. Like, there's a visceral connection. There's, like,
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: there's some sort of a mechanical connection. You feel it.
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: That's what I like.
• 8:19
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I did driving courses while I was in the military.
• 8:22
  Speaker 6: We had, like, what you would call– I guess it
• 8:25
  Speaker 6: was called at the time, like, a high-risk officer pipeline.
• 8:28
  Speaker 6: So the– I guess like the expectation would be at
• 8:31
  Speaker 6: some point you might be caught or captured. So there's
• 8:33
  Speaker 6: all these different courses that they send you through in
• 8:35
  Speaker 6: order to, you know.
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: Sure.
• 8:37
  Speaker 6: It's like Sears School on steroids. But one of the
• 8:40
  Speaker 6: courses was for like a week and a half, all
• 8:43
  Speaker 6: you do is learn how to drive. Like they have
• 8:48
  Speaker 6: rally car instructors come. teach you how to drive and
• 8:52
  Speaker 6: like how to do trail turns and how to, uh,
• 8:56
  Speaker 6: you know, navigate course. And then you do on-road off-road
• 8:59
  Speaker 6: and like, they put you in all kinds of crazy scenarios.
• 9:02
  Speaker 6: Like at one point they drive you up to a
• 9:03
  Speaker 6: checkpoint and you've got a bag over your head and
• 9:06
  Speaker 6: they put you at the checkpoint and they say, all right,
• 9:09
  Speaker 6: we're going to take this bag off. When we take
• 9:10
  Speaker 6: the bag off of your head, uh, react to the situation,
• 9:14
  Speaker 6: like it's an operational scenario and you can employ whatever
• 9:17
  Speaker 6: you need to do. Like They basically just want to
• 9:19
  Speaker 6: see how you do under pressure, but it's part of
• 9:21
  Speaker 6: the car course. So you're at this checkpoint and, you know,
• 9:25
  Speaker 6: for me, it was, you know, the guard started freaking
• 9:27
  Speaker 6: out and then they're shooting blanks and stuff. And basically
• 9:30
  Speaker 6: they just want to see, cause they teach you exactly
• 9:32
  Speaker 6: how to do it. Like you plant your left foot
• 9:34
  Speaker 6: or you, yeah, you plant your left foot, you stand up,
• 9:37
  Speaker 6: you get behind yourself and then steer it backwards. And like,
• 9:40
  Speaker 6: how can you navigate a serpentine, uh, in reverse in
• 9:45
  Speaker 6: a car while under fire and get out of a situation?
• 9:48
  Speaker 6: It was a lot of fun. The courses were a
• 9:49
  Speaker 6: ton of fun and you learn like from the best
• 9:51
  Speaker 6: drivers in the world. And like everything in life, you
• 9:55
  Speaker 6: think you have a conception of how these things will
• 9:58
  Speaker 6: be before you get into them.
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: It's like golf.
• 10:01
  Speaker 6: Like I really, I got into golf years ago cause
• 10:03
  Speaker 6: I was told I would suck at it. And cause
• 10:06
  Speaker 6: I was a rugby player at the time. And it
• 10:07
  Speaker 6: was my, you know, father-in-law said, you're not a golfer. You're,
• 10:12
  Speaker 6: you're a large blunt instrument, like go keep playing rugby.
• 10:16
  Speaker 6: And so I was like, Fuck this guy. I'm going
• 10:18
  Speaker 6: to fucking be as good as golf as I can. So, um,
• 10:22
  Speaker 6: you know, at first I was trying to lift the
• 10:23
  Speaker 6: ball or I was trying to overcorrect and prevent a
• 10:28
  Speaker 6: slice by really strengthening my grip. It was actually, no,
• 10:31
  Speaker 6: you got to hit from the inside to the out.
• 10:33
  Speaker 6: You got to transfer your weight here. Um, you actually,
• 10:36
  Speaker 6: if you want the ball to go high, you need
• 10:37
  Speaker 6: to hit down on it. And it was the same
• 10:39
  Speaker 6: thing with cars. If you want to drive fast, keep
• 10:42
  Speaker 6: your tires in contact with the road as much as possible.
• 10:45
  Speaker 6: use the brake to front load the weight, because we
• 10:47
  Speaker 6: were driving Interceptor Impalas in the course, so it's like
• 10:51
  Speaker 6: most of the weight's in the front, so you want
• 10:53
  Speaker 6: to apply brakes through the corners. People think fast and
• 10:56
  Speaker 6: furious is like the fastest way to drive a car.
• 10:59
  Speaker 6: I should say the public consciousness. Obviously anyone who's ever
• 11:02
  Speaker 6: been around a race car driver or watches race cars
• 11:04
  Speaker 6: knows you need the wheels in contact with the road
• 11:07
  Speaker 6: as much as possible. You try to draw a straight
• 11:10
  Speaker 6: line through the course and navigate that straight line, so
• 11:13
  Speaker 6: if you're cutting, corners and stuff like that to keep
• 11:15
  Speaker 6: the cars as straight a line as possible. Steer as
• 11:17
  Speaker 6: little as possible. Don't oversteer like you always see in
• 11:20
  Speaker 6: the movies, like people are oversteering like the car. And
• 11:23
  Speaker 6: it's like, no, like the guy in the course was like,
• 11:25
  Speaker 6: never oversteer. If you have to put one hand over
• 11:28
  Speaker 6: the other, you're failing. Feed one hand, feed the wheel
• 11:32
  Speaker 6: from one hand to the other and take a trail turn.
• 11:35
  Speaker 6: And if you oversteer, you're going to lose contact with
• 11:37
  Speaker 6: the ground and you're going to be slower. So it
• 11:40
  Speaker 6: was all these opposites.
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: I guess the point is it's a perception. Yeah.
• 11:44
  Speaker 6: You have a perception going in that this is like
• 11:46
  Speaker 6: a fast, like when I get really good at this course,
• 11:49
  Speaker 6: I'm going to be, you know, uh, what do they
• 11:51
  Speaker 6: call it? Like in fast and the furious when they're,
• 11:53
  Speaker 6: you know, taking a really tight corner and their back
• 11:57
  Speaker 6: end swings out and.
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: It's a car squealing.
• 11:59
  Speaker 6: I don't remember the sliding, drifting, drifting, drifting. Like you
• 12:02
  Speaker 6: think like, you know, 25, 30 year old me at
• 12:05
  Speaker 6: the time was like, this is what I'm going to
• 12:06
  Speaker 6: be doing by the end of the course. Like, no,
• 12:07
  Speaker 6: apply the break and take the tip turn. correctly, keep
• 12:11
  Speaker 6: the wheels on the ground.
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah. That's the key is doing the limitations of the
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: car and being able to avoid doing that.
• 12:17
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 12:17
  Speaker 6: But it's been around quicker. It's been the case for
• 12:20
  Speaker 6: me in life. Anytime I learned something at a very
• 12:21
  Speaker 6: high level, um, like even with archery, like the slower
• 12:26
  Speaker 6: you can pull the trigger on the release and, and, and,
• 12:30
  Speaker 6: and my instinct would be like snap, slap it. And
• 12:33
  Speaker 6: some people slap it and do fine. But for me,
• 12:35
  Speaker 6: it's the same with long distance shooting. Like when I
• 12:37
  Speaker 6: take a long distance shooting course, Pull that trigger so
• 12:40
  Speaker 6: you almost can't even anticipate where it's going to fire,
• 12:46
  Speaker 6: at what point it's going to fire. Manipulate the play
• 12:48
  Speaker 6: and pull the trigger as slow as possible, and that
• 12:51
  Speaker 6: will be the most accurate shot you're going to take.
• 12:53
  Speaker 6: If the shot surprises you nine times out of ten,
• 12:55
  Speaker 6: it's going to be more accurate than a shot that
• 12:56
  Speaker 6: you've anticipated.
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: Right, because you're anticipating recoil. Yeah. There's a caveat to that.
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: The caveat to that is there's some very high-level archers
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: that win a lot of big tournaments– that do what
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: they call command trigger.
• 13:12
  Speaker 6: For sure.
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: And I think what's going on there is those guys
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: learned how to shoot a surprise shot first. And those guys,
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: almost all those guys, those target guys, they use a
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: hinge and, or at least sometimes they use a hinge.
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: A lot of them use thumb buttons now, but, and
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: they use a thumb button like a hedge. They just
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: load it up with back pressure until it goes off
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: in a surprise shot. But There's guys like James Lutz
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: and there's a few of these, Kyle Douglas, Tim Gillingham.
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: These guys win giant tournaments and they command shoot. Yeah, yeah.
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: So they shoot. What they do is they put the
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: pin over and they know how to stay stable.
• 13:49
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: And they've done it for so long and they have
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: tremendous back pressure on the trigger or on the bow
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: they're pulling.
• 13:56
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: And then they hit the trigger when they wanted to go.
• 13:58
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: They can keep their shit together. And I think it's
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: a mental thing. The real problem with people in target
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: panic is two things. One, if you're in a tournament,
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: like when you're shooting, if you're getting targeted, like those
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: guys are shooting. People have never seen a Vegas round.
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: So what a Vegas round is, you have three targets
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: and you're shooting at 20 meters and you're shooting, you're
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: trying to hit a dime at 20 meters 30 times.
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: And so that's how you get a 300 score. Yep.
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: This guy Lutz just shot 719. So he, at a 720.
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: 720 is possible. So at a 72 arrows, this motherfucker
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: only got a nine once. And he's command shooting. This
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: is the thing. So it's not a steadfast rule. But
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: to overcome the pressure of that anticipation and flinching, that's
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: when people turn to a surprise shot. I think the
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: pressure is the problem. It's not the technique of releasing.
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: Because if you show someone how to shoot a bow
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: and they put the target, they put the pin over
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: the target, they hit the trigger, for a while they're
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: good at it, right? So what happens? What makes them
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: not be good anymore? Well, it's clearly their mind. It's
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: clearly the pressure. And so I think maybe you can
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: be just as accurate, if not more accurate, using a
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: command shot. But you need to understand how your mind
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: is working. And you need to understand how to mitigate
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: pressure and how to stay calm. And I think there's
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: only a few ways to do that. There's strategies that
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: you can use. You can learn techniques. But the reality
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: is when a big moment hits you, you're going to
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: freak out. So I think the strategy might be just
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: have a bunch of big moments. Have more big moments
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: in your life, more instances in your life where you
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: have to deal with pressure. And that kind of tracks
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: with everything else in life. The people that have dealt
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: with pressure, that understand pressure and know how to perform,
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: they can kind of do anything. You can kind of
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: go from that and be involved in all sorts of
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: other things that involve pressure. But if you don't know
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: pressure at all, and then all of a sudden there's
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: a screaming bull elk in front of you at 40 yards,
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: and all you've been shooting at is a target, you're
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: going to panic, especially if you're not a pressure person. Now,
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: if you are a pressure person, you're probably still going
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: to freak out the first couple of times, but eventually
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: you'll figure it out.
• 16:31
  Speaker 6: Yeah, your road to figuring it out will be a
• 16:32
  Speaker 6: lot quicker if you've dealt with pressure in the past.
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: That's what I think.
• 16:37
  Speaker 6: With Spartan Forge, we have a guy on our ambassadors,
• 16:41
  Speaker 6: I guess you'd call them. I don't like any of
• 16:42
  Speaker 6: the terms. He's a guy that we trust to consult
• 16:45
  Speaker 6: for us on features in the app, and then he'll
• 16:47
  Speaker 6: talk about the app. His name is Levi Morgan.
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: Oh, he's the best.
• 16:50
  Speaker 6: He's a fantastic archer. And just spending time around those guys,
• 16:54
  Speaker 6: they definitely have a way of Because we had an
• 16:57
  Speaker 6: archery competition a couple of years ago, everyone in the company,
• 17:00
  Speaker 6: and he was part of it. What's funny is this. Now,
• 17:02
  Speaker 6: if we were to do this nine times out of 10,
• 17:04
  Speaker 6: this guy wouldn't win. But one of my engineers is
• 17:06
  Speaker 6: this killer named Evan Freed. And he and Levi were
• 17:11
  Speaker 6: in the final, like 20 guys started this archery competition.
• 17:14
  Speaker 6: It was the two of them at the very end.
• 17:16
  Speaker 6: And Evan beat him.
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: Oh, my God.
• 17:18
  Speaker 6: I couldn't believe it.
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: Weaponized autism.
• 17:20
  Speaker 6: Yeah. He's one of them. He's one of them. I mean,
• 17:23
  Speaker 6: he absolutely was a stone cold killer. And then we
• 17:26
  Speaker 6: did it with these other guys at an attack event,
• 17:28
  Speaker 6: like a total archery challenge.
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: How much did he beat Levi Morgan by?
• 17:33
  Speaker 6: I mean, he won. I don't remember exactly what the
• 17:35
  Speaker 6: delta was, but he won.
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: That's crazy.
• 17:38
  Speaker 6: And nobody could believe it. Like everyone looked at him
• 17:40
  Speaker 6: like John freaking Wick for the rest of the week.
• 17:43
  Speaker 6: And like, who is this guy that just went and
• 17:45
  Speaker 6: shot at the king and didn't miss? And Levi's the
• 17:48
  Speaker 6: best in the world. And like I said, if they
• 17:49
  Speaker 6: had done that nine times more, Levi would have won
• 17:52
  Speaker 6: the next nine. But for one moment, he was Prometheus.
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: I don't know about that. See, we're going back to
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: the mind again. If he can do it once, why
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: can't he keep doing it?
• 18:03
  Speaker 6: Yeah, maybe. I mean, there you go, Evan. Maybe you
• 18:05
  Speaker 6: should quit as an engineer for me and go and
• 18:07
  Speaker 6: be a professional archer or something like that.
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of these rules that people have for things.
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: And I'm like, well, who invents these rules? Other people.
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: And a lot of times people invent rules to sort
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: of to kind of rationalize or deal with their own struggles.
• 18:23
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: So they invent rules of like what you can and
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: can't do, what you can and can't get away with,
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: what works and what doesn't work. You only know what
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: works if you try it and it works.
• 18:34
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: Think DraftKings isn't available in your state? Think again. The
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: cage is set, and DraftKings keeps the full card at
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: your fingertips in one sports app live in all 50 states.
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: Once the cage door closes, everybody has a pick. DraftKings
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: keeps you close. to the pay-per-view card from the first
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: walkout to the final horn. Make your calls as the
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: card unfolds. Download the DraftKings Sports app and use the
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: code ROGAN. New customers can spend five and get 200
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: in bonuses within 21 days. That's code ROGAN. Spend five,
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: get 200 in bonuses. In partnership with DraftKings, the crown
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: is yours.
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER. 1-800-MY-RESET. Connecticut called 888-789-7777. Or visit ccpg.org.
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: On behalf of Boot Hill Casino in Kansas, bet tax
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: pass-through may apply in Illinois, 21 and over, void in Canada.
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: Event contract trading with DraftKings Predictions involves risk of loss.
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: Availability varies. Predictions offer void in New York. Bet to
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: get bonus bets that expire in seven days. Trade to
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: get Predictions dollars that expire.
• 19:35
  Speaker 4: In one year.
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: $ 50 in rewards issued every seven days via click-to-claim for
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: 21 days. One non-withdrawable reward redeemable. Turn I hear it's a.
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: That's a heuristic, which is something I talk about all
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: the time, is people come up with a good enough
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: way to do something that works for them.
• 19:44
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: And it might not work for everyone. Well, another example
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: of this would be Cam Haynes.
• 20:03
  Speaker 6: Doesn't he really slap whenever he fires?
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: Well, he kind of pulls it slowly back, but it's
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: definitely a command shot.
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: But then again, look at, first of all, his ability
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: to deal with pressure.
• 20:15
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: Right? He runs 300-mile races. He does all this crazy shit.
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: On top of that, he's been a hunter for 30
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: years plus.
• 20:22
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: Probably more. Probably 40 now.
• 20:24
  Speaker 4: Right?
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: So he's been hunting most of his life, and he's
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: had so much experience pulling the trigger on animals. Yeah.
• 20:30
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 20:31
  Speaker 6: Yeah, and that reps, it's all about reps.
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: It's all about reps with everything in life. And it's
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: all about, it's not just reps, it's recent reps. You know,
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: it's like having the amount of repetitions like recently to
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: the point where it's a normal, natural part of your psychology,
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: the way your mind works.
• 20:48
  Speaker 6: I'll do that with whitetail hunting is I always make
• 20:50
  Speaker 6: sure I try to kill two or three doe before
• 20:52
  Speaker 6: I really start zeroing in on going for a buck.
• 20:54
  Speaker 6: Because if a buck's the first thing I'm looking at,
• 20:56
  Speaker 6: and it's been nine months since I've hunted or six
• 20:58
  Speaker 6: months or whatever since I've hunted, I'll still get it.
• 21:00
  Speaker 6: I've been hunting for 25 years and I'll still freak out.
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: Buck fever.
• 21:04
  Speaker 6: Or get the adrenaline drop afterwards. I don't usually get the,
• 21:07
  Speaker 6: I've never really gotten the adrenaline drop when it's happening.
• 21:09
  Speaker 6: But as soon as that arrow is loosed, then I'm like,
• 21:13
  Speaker 6: I'm just like freaking out. Like I don't even know
• 21:15
  Speaker 6: what happened.
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: Well, at least you can keep it together before the
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: arrow's loosed because that's where most people fall apart. I mean,
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: I've seen professional, you know, I don't want to call
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: them professional hunters, but people that make their living as
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: hunting influencers and they have these videos that And you
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: can watch them on YouTube and they're shaking like a
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: leaf when they're drawing back their bow. And they're like, wow,
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: this guy's been hunting for 40 years. Yeah. And he
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: still gets jazzed up.
• 21:35
  Speaker 6: Yeah, there's something about that. I think it's why we
• 21:39
  Speaker 6: all want to keep hunting, right? Because it's probably hard
• 21:41
  Speaker 6: to do. Well, it's hard to do for sure. But
• 21:44
  Speaker 6: it's wired into our, you know, however we evolve, however
• 21:48
  Speaker 6: we establish over time. One thing is true is that
• 21:51
  Speaker 6: we were able to stick around and have success because
• 21:53
  Speaker 6: we had these groups of hunters that would go out
• 21:55
  Speaker 6: and hunt for the tribes. So there's wiring in us.
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: 100%.
• 21:59
  Speaker 6: That hunting might be the only way or one of
• 22:02
  Speaker 6: the few ways to tap into that in a way
• 22:05
  Speaker 6: that your body immediately understands.
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: Fishing is too.
• 22:07
  Speaker 6: Yeah, fishing for sure.
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: Well, I have these comparisons that I do. It's one
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: of the reasons why I say I never go to
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: protests because protests are like fishing. This is why. Fishing
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: is a part of your DNA. You get a little kid.
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: When my daughter was five, it was the first time
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: I took her fishing. When she caught a fish, she
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: was so excited. It's in you. It's in you. You
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: know that catching this thing means your body's rewarding you
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: with all these good feelings and good endorphins because now
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: you're going to eat. You're going to be able to
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: feed your family. You're going to be able to survive.
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: When you're protesting and everyone's walking down the street chanting
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: and cheering... That's too much like war. That excites the
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: part of the brain that thinks we're supposed to smash
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: Starbucks to crush the patriarchy or whatever the fuck you
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: want to do, light things on fire. When you see
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: people behaving with, air quotes, mob mentality, what is that?
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: I'll tell you what that is. That's war. That's your
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: body's ability to recognize that it's you with a bunch
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: of other people that are supposed to be on your side.
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: You're in a life or death situation. And you're against
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: another team and you're marching and chanting and screaming. Everybody's
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: hyped up. And next thing you know, violence breaks off
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: and everybody gives into that feeling. Giving into the kind
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: of behavior that would be almost impossible to imagine if
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: you were by yourself. Smashing someone's car window while you're
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: by yourself. Walking up to Starbucks with a fucking traffic
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: cone and breaking the window and diving in and throwing
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: things off the shelves. You would never do that while
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: you're by yourself. Why are you doing it with this
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: giant group of people?
• 23:43
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: It's the war thing. It's just like the fishing thing.
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: It's in you.
• 23:49
  Speaker 6: It's that circuitry.
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: Let's go. You start Black Lives Matter, whatever it is,
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: whatever it is. No kings, whatever it is. You start
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: marching down the street, free Palestine. These fucking buildings are
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: keeping us from freeing Palestine. You want to light them
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: on fire. And that's what people do. It's a normal
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: part of us that allowed us to survive to 2026
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: with tribal warfare.
• 24:12
  Speaker 6: We needed that circuitry.
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: And that feeling that you get from catching a fish-
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: Multiply that times 1,000 for archery elk hunting.
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: It's off the charts, the highs and the lows.
• 24:26
  Speaker 6: There was a deer I was chasing. I'm more of
• 24:29
  Speaker 6: a whitetail hunter. I've only been elk hunting twice. I
• 24:32
  Speaker 6: want to do it more. I just haven't had the time,
• 24:33
  Speaker 6: and I lived on the eastern seaboard. Most of my
• 24:35
  Speaker 6: career I was in the military, so the option of
• 24:37
  Speaker 6: going west and elk hunting wasn't in the cards for me,
• 24:39
  Speaker 6: so I mostly whitetail hunted. But a couple of years ago,
• 24:42
  Speaker 6: I was hunting a public land buck in the Allegheny
• 24:46
  Speaker 6: that was 12 years old where's the allegheny uh um
• 24:50
  Speaker 6: well it was actually wasn't actually the allegheny was east
• 24:53
  Speaker 6: of there but it's uh north north central pennsylvania would
• 24:57
  Speaker 6: have been the better way to say it but i
• 24:58
  Speaker 6: just say allegheny because that's near there it's farther it's
• 25:00
  Speaker 6: farther east of there it's actually a couple hours east
• 25:02
  Speaker 6: of there but um anyway uh i was hunting up
• 25:05
  Speaker 6: there and uh there's buck everyone had knew about and
• 25:09
  Speaker 6: he was old and huge and at one point he
• 25:10
  Speaker 6: was like 170 inches And it's pretty big for a
• 25:14
  Speaker 6: public land white-tailed buck.
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: Huge.
• 25:16
  Speaker 6: And everyone knew about it. And I was going up
• 25:18
  Speaker 6: into this area to hunt where he had been historically
• 25:22
  Speaker 6: during the rut. Thermals were wrong in the area. Thermal
• 25:26
  Speaker 6: draw was rising still and it should have been pulling
• 25:29
  Speaker 6: at this point. So I was like, this is a
• 25:30
  Speaker 6: bad spot. Like where he's at, he's going to smell
• 25:32
  Speaker 6: me coming in. So I'm just going to walk to
• 25:34
  Speaker 6: a different part. So I walked to the front of
• 25:36
  Speaker 6: the mountain and just went up there where I knew
• 25:38
  Speaker 6: the thermals would be better. And he was on a doe.
• 25:41
  Speaker 6: And I was still on the ground. I hadn't even
• 25:43
  Speaker 6: climbed a tree yet. I was on the ground. And
• 25:45
  Speaker 6: he was pushing a doe into like a ditch. And
• 25:47
  Speaker 6: then he popped out. And when I saw him, I
• 25:49
  Speaker 6: was like, holy crap, that's him. Like, that's the monarch.
• 25:51
  Speaker 6: Everyone called him the monarch. And I was like, ugh. Like,
• 25:54
  Speaker 6: I'm still like freaking out. Anyway, I pulled back and
• 25:58
  Speaker 6: put it right in, like double lunged him at like
• 26:00
  Speaker 6: 35 yards. And I had like an adrenaline drop for
• 26:04
  Speaker 6: like 25 minutes afterwards. I couldn't even call my buddy
• 26:08
  Speaker 6: to come and help me drag him because I was
• 26:10
  Speaker 6: freaking out so bad. And it was a consequence of
• 26:14
  Speaker 6: like three years of knowing this buck existed or that
• 26:16
  Speaker 6: he was in the area. And then you put all
• 26:19
  Speaker 6: this time in, like way more time than you should
• 26:21
  Speaker 6: to chase this animal. And you have this goal. And
• 26:24
  Speaker 6: then all of a sudden it's in front of you.
• 26:25
  Speaker 6: And you're like, I can't believe this is happening. This
• 26:27
  Speaker 6: is happening. And then I always say the same thing
• 26:29
  Speaker 6: I used to say in the military when I was shooting,
• 26:31
  Speaker 6: which was to kind of get into my zoning out mode.
• 26:36
  Speaker 6: I had this acronym I learned in the military, which
• 26:38
  Speaker 6: was STAB. Steady position, trigger squeeze, aiming, and breathing. So
• 26:42
  Speaker 6: every time I'm at full draw, I say to myself
• 26:44
  Speaker 6: very silently, I'm just like steady position, slow trigger squeeze, aim, breathe.
• 26:49
  Speaker 6: And then I always breathe at the perigee of my breath.
• 26:51
  Speaker 6: So I'll take a big breath in, I'll breathe all
• 26:54
  Speaker 6: the way out so there's no air in my body,
• 26:55
  Speaker 6: and then slow pull. And when I say that, when
• 26:59
  Speaker 6: I remember to say that to myself, then it's kind
• 27:00
  Speaker 6: of like any panic or anything kind of falls away
• 27:04
  Speaker 6: and I'm just focused on the task of Steady position,
• 27:06
  Speaker 6: trigger squeeze, aiming, breathing. But it happened for like 25
• 27:09
  Speaker 6: minutes afterwards.
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: Have you studied any of Joel Turner's stuff?
• 27:12
  Speaker 6: Uh-uh. Do you know who he is?
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: I know who he is.
• 27:15
  Speaker 6: We've talked on Instagram a couple of times. I mean,
• 27:17
  Speaker 6: I've watched some videos. But to say I've studied him
• 27:20
  Speaker 6: or I know the whole story, that would be inaccurate.
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: Well, his strategy is essentially what you just outlined, just
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: with different words. But the same thing. He says you
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: should talk to yourself through the entire shot so that
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: you make this a closed loop. thing instead of an
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: open loop thing. And so what that means is an
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: open loop thing is like swinging a baseball bat. Once
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: you start to swing it, you're swinging it, right? It's going.
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: And a closed loop thing is something you could stop
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: at any moment, like writing. When you're writing something down,
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: you could just stop that pen at any moment. It's
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: not like it gets away from you. So the thing
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: about an archery shot is it can kind of get
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: away from you and that's when you flinch and that's
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: when you're six inches off the mark.
• 27:59
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: At 20 yards and you don't understand what happened. And
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: that's what he teaches people to avoid. And he was
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: a SWAT team member. And he would teach people proper
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: techniques in order to, I mean, he learned psychology and
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: he learned like what's going on in the mind in
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: order to be able to execute in those situations that
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: are extremely high stress, hostage situations. Like you had to
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: shoot somebody that was holding someone hostage.
• 28:25
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: He's been in those things and he realizes that that's
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: a life or death situation that can be mitigated by
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: a certain amount of understanding of what's happening in the
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: mind and what causes open loop or closed loop thinking.
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: And so what you're doing is instigating closed loop thinking
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: by talking to yourself the entire time. So by having
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: every moment controlled and every moment calm and you have
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: a system and you're actually saying that system through your head,
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: That's what keeps you in the present, in the moment,
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: instead of just panicking like a lot of people do.
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: We've all seen it. People just freak out.
• 29:01
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: And some people don't understand what is happening in their mind.
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: So they just repeat these things over and over again.
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: And they have good days and bad days. And they
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: don't understand where the bad days are coming from. And
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: what is it? Well, what it is is your mind
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: got away from you. And sometimes the mind can just
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: run amok.
• 29:18
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: It can just take it. That's why people have anxiety attacks.
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: I mean, maybe some of the reasons why people. I
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: don't want to say, but I don't know why people
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: have anxiety attacks. But some people have anxiety attacks because
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: they start thinking about something and dreading it, and then
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: it builds up in their mind, and then all of
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: a sudden it's just a runaway train inside their brain.
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: And they haven't developed personal methods for stopping that and
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: mitigating that kind of stress and recognizing what's happening while
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: it's happening and then talking yourself down off the ledge
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: and just peace of mind. Getting yourself to a peaceful place.
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: Some people don't have those strategies because So the moment
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: something goes sideways, especially if they're not used to pressure,
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: the moment something goes sideways, it just runs away from them.
• 30:05
  Speaker 6: Yeah. So lots of people say lots of things about me.
• 30:09
  Speaker 6: I remember Andy on here talking smack about me being
• 30:11
  Speaker 6: Captain America of autism. That's the first thing that comes
• 30:14
  Speaker 6: to mind. Andy's the best. I mean, I talk to
• 30:17
  Speaker 6: Andy almost every day. He's become one of my closest,
• 30:20
  Speaker 6: like I shouldn't say closest friends. I should say someone
• 30:23
  Speaker 6: I regularly talk to and he's good for me. because
• 30:26
  Speaker 6: he's kind of the opposite of me in ways like he, like,
• 30:29
  Speaker 6: like my wife and I are good for each other
• 30:31
  Speaker 6: in the way that she worries about everything. She's worried
• 30:34
  Speaker 6: right now. She's sitting outside worried out of her mind
• 30:38
  Speaker 6: right now about something, probably something she hasn't even talked
• 30:40
  Speaker 6: to me about. I almost worry about nothing until it
• 30:44
  Speaker 6: becomes something that's important to me. Like if someone asks
• 30:48
  Speaker 6: me to do some work or something that's particularly important, um,
• 30:52
  Speaker 6: Then I care about like, okay, this work will represent me.
• 30:54
  Speaker 6: I got to do it as diligently as I can.
• 30:57
  Speaker 6: My representation reflects on my family. So then things, I
• 31:00
  Speaker 6: start caring about things. But if I do have a superpower,
• 31:04
  Speaker 6: I would say it was imposed on me in a
• 31:06
  Speaker 6: weird way by my mother. My mother was an alcoholic
• 31:09
  Speaker 6: and would go to AA meetings and drag me along
• 31:13
  Speaker 6: like when I was really young. And she, they would
• 31:16
  Speaker 6: say their serenity prayer at the beginning of every Alcoholics
• 31:20
  Speaker 6: Anonymous meeting, which was, God grant me the serenity to
• 31:22
  Speaker 6: accept things I cannot change, courage to change the things
• 31:25
  Speaker 6: I can, and wisdom to know the difference. So I'd
• 31:27
  Speaker 6: be standing here and watching these people tell these insane stories.
• 31:30
  Speaker 6: Like I went on a seven-day bender. I'm from Missouri.
• 31:33
  Speaker 6: I woke up in Las Vegas. And I'd just be like,
• 31:35
  Speaker 6: what am I doing here? I'm like nine years old.
• 31:37
  Speaker 6: Like what is happening? But that did stick with me.
• 31:41
  Speaker 6: And I would say that's one of my superpowers is
• 31:45
  Speaker 6: if I can't affect something, I don't worry about it. Like,
• 31:48
  Speaker 6: if there's nothing I can do about it, like, I
• 31:50
  Speaker 6: just had a conversation with my daughter about this last night.
• 31:52
  Speaker 6: She was worried about teenager things. I was like, look,
• 31:55
  Speaker 6: you know, I've told you the serenity of prayer, your Amma,
• 31:57
  Speaker 6: my mother used to tell me. Like, try to just
• 32:01
  Speaker 6: live by that. And that kind of goes to the
• 32:03
  Speaker 6: things we're talking about with shooting is let's just focus
• 32:05
  Speaker 6: on the things we control. And let's develop a heuristic
• 32:08
  Speaker 6: or a way to get through this closed loop system
• 32:11
  Speaker 6: that you're talking about. And for me, it was a
• 32:13
  Speaker 6: heuristic because it was just something the military taught me
• 32:15
  Speaker 6: that worked particularly well. I didn't know all of the
• 32:17
  Speaker 6: psychology or stuff that you're talking about it there. But
• 32:20
  Speaker 6: I would say if I had one superpower, it's my
• 32:22
  Speaker 6: ability to just not care when I can't affect the outcome.
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: That's very wise.
• 32:26
  Speaker 6: I wouldn't say, yeah, and I wouldn't say it's my wisdom.
• 32:29
  Speaker 6: It's something I adopted from someone else, but it served
• 32:31
  Speaker 6: me particularly well in life because whether it was in
• 32:34
  Speaker 6: Iraq or Afghanistan or the Philippines or Africa or anywhere else,
• 32:38
  Speaker 6: I was in like a shady situation. It was like, okay,
• 32:41
  Speaker 6: this is going horribly. What can I focus on? I
• 32:44
  Speaker 6: can get on the radio. I can do this. I
• 32:46
  Speaker 6: can do that. Let's do those things and let's get
• 32:49
  Speaker 6: out of here. And so it's served me really well.
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: Well, I think that's the proper strategy for navigating life correctly.
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: I think the opposite, just freaking out about everything every
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: time it happens, that just doesn't serve you. I think
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: What we were talking about earlier is an issue, too. Like,
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: think about all the things you just said, all the
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: different places you were where things went sideways. Like, most
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: people don't have those experiences. And that's one of the
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: reasons why most people are not resilient. And I think
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: you need a certain amount of very high-pressure situations in
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: your life in order to kind of galvanize your character. Yeah.
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: Find out who you are when the chips are down.
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: You don't know who you are. Like, we've all seen
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: these guys. They get in fist fights online and these
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: videos online and they don't know how to fight. And
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: yet they talk themselves into this fight. It's almost like
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: they want to believe and they want. to convince this
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: other person they want to fight, and then they think
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: they're going to be able to do it, and everyone's watching.
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: I'm just going to hit this guy, and it doesn't
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: work out. And they wind up a highlight reel, and
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: everyone makes fun of them, and then their life is
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: literally ruined now. When I was a kid, if you
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: got your ass kicked, no one knew but you and
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: the guys who kicked your ass.
• 34:07
  Speaker 6: Yeah, and it happened all the time for me. It
• 34:09
  Speaker 6: was like every two or three weeks somebody would get
• 34:10
  Speaker 6: in a fight.
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 34:11
  Speaker 6: Fighting was so common for me growing up in a
• 34:13
  Speaker 6: farm town in the middle of North Dakota.
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: Oh, I'm sure.
• 34:15
  Speaker 6: It was the highlight of our month.
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: Nothing else to do.
• 34:17
  Speaker 6: Like if the school bully and someone else threw down
• 34:19
  Speaker 6: or whatever and that guy won or like, it was
• 34:22
  Speaker 6: just like, this is awesome.
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: But everybody got over it after a while and you
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: forgot about the fight because there'd been 10 other fights
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: since then. And life moved on. Now, if you get
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: your ass fucked up in a, if you go to
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: talk some shit to some dude in a convenience store
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: in front of his girlfriend, he KOs you.
• 34:38
  Speaker 6: With a can of something?
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: And someone's got the thing in your face like, oh.
• 34:41
  Speaker 6: Shit, you got knocked the fuck out. The internet remembers.
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: They remember forever. And all your friends remember, all the
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: people that hate you remember.
• 34:50
  Speaker 6: You become a meme.
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah. It's a way more difficult time to fuck up
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: than ever in the past.
• 34:57
  Speaker 6: It's one of those things too where, I said this
• 34:59
  Speaker 6: while I just did Annie's podcast like three weeks ago.
• 35:03
  Speaker 6: But it's like essentially we can– if you don't force–
• 35:07
  Speaker 6: you talked about resilience. But if you don't force the
• 35:12
  Speaker 6: harshness of nature upon you, like if you don't adopt
• 35:15
  Speaker 6: it and try to put yourself in situations where things
• 35:18
  Speaker 6: will get hard so you can find out who you are.
• 35:20
  Speaker 6: And you can do this in a multitude of ways, right?
• 35:21
  Speaker 6: You can do it with jiu-jitsu. You can go to
• 35:23
  Speaker 6: a jiu-jitsu gym and get your ass handed to you
• 35:25
  Speaker 6: time after time and just understand like, okay, I'm not
• 35:28
  Speaker 6: the badass I thought I was. And there's a whole
• 35:30
  Speaker 6: wealth of things that I can learn for the next
• 35:31
  Speaker 6: 50 years. And so you're adopting something or like hunting.
• 35:35
  Speaker 6: I have friends that I do. We do fasted hunts together.
• 35:38
  Speaker 6: We were going to do this one this year, but
• 35:39
  Speaker 6: Spartan Forge kept me fasted. So what we do is
• 35:42
  Speaker 6: we take a cooler. We pack it with drinks and
• 35:47
  Speaker 6: food and accoutrement like salads and stuff like that. And
• 35:51
  Speaker 6: then we get a Yeti and we lock it. And
• 35:53
  Speaker 6: then one of the wives has the code for the Yeti.
• 35:56
  Speaker 6: And she doesn't give us the code for the Yeti
• 35:58
  Speaker 6: until we kill something. So we have to send her
• 36:00
  Speaker 6: a picture of a doe or send a picture of
• 36:02
  Speaker 6: a buck or something like that. And so we'll just
• 36:04
  Speaker 6: have salt water. And we'll fast for two or three days.
• 36:08
  Speaker 6: And then somebody kills a doe finally. In the past
• 36:11
  Speaker 6: when we'd do it, there'd be five or six of us.
• 36:13
  Speaker 6: So someone's going to kill in the first couple of days.
• 36:15
  Speaker 6: The shortest time was ever like 36 hours. The longest
• 36:18
  Speaker 6: time I think we went four days. And you're just
• 36:20
  Speaker 6: hunting fasted. And, uh, that's the best feeling in the world.
• 36:25
  Speaker 6: When someone texts and says like dough down, it's like
• 36:28
  Speaker 6: when you're three days into like, and I'm a heavy guy,
• 36:31
  Speaker 6: so I can go a long time without food. Like
• 36:33
  Speaker 6: I usually do a quarterly fast where I'll go. The
• 36:36
  Speaker 6: shortest is usually two or three days. And the longest
• 36:38
  Speaker 6: I'll do is seven days.
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: But isn't that different when you're out hunting? Like you're
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: burning off a lot.
• 36:43
  Speaker 6: It wears it down a lot quicker.
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 36:45
  Speaker 6: So like by day three, you're hurting. And so we, we, we,
• 36:50
  Speaker 6: I've always killed within was except for one time. We've
• 36:52
  Speaker 6: always killed within three days, but the sense of community.
• 36:56
  Speaker 6: And we talked about the wiring that it taps into.
• 36:58
  Speaker 6: Like when you're sitting around a fire with like five,
• 37:00
  Speaker 6: six people and nobody's eaten. And now you're texting the
• 37:04
  Speaker 6: photo and you're opening the cooler and you will want to,
• 37:07
  Speaker 6: you want to cry almost. And you're like, Oh man,
• 37:09
  Speaker 6: you're the best. I was just, I can't believe you did.
• 37:11
  Speaker 6: This is the best day ever. Oh my God. Like
• 37:14
  Speaker 6: you're just, you're feeling like you're on top of the world. And, uh, it's,
• 37:17
  Speaker 6: you just killed a doe.
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: I know, but that's what we're wired for. And we're
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: missing that. I mean, this is one of the reasons
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: why people are so attracted to like these videos of
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: people who survive or videos of subsistence cultures in the Amazon.
• 37:32
  Speaker 6: Naked and afraid.
• 37:33
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: All that stuff. There's a reason why we're attached, attached
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: to those things. I think it's because that those human
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: reward systems are the strongest purveyors of happiness. that we
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: have currently available to us.
• 37:46
  Speaker 6: Yeah, because we're not really wired to get happy from
• 37:48
  Speaker 6: an Instagram video. It happens. Like we get happy scrolling.
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: You may laugh a little, but it's not the same happiness.
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: It's a very temporary. It's not a body happiness. Like
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: you shoot an elk at 60 yards and double lung
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: it and watch it tip over. That kind of happiness,
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: there's nothing like that. There's nothing like that. That's a
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: different thing. That's a survival thing. It's built into your DNA.
• 38:10
  Speaker 6: But the point I was making was if you don't
• 38:12
  Speaker 6: choose something Like choose to eat well, choose to train,
• 38:17
  Speaker 6: choose to hunt or choose to do Jesus to you
• 38:19
  Speaker 6: or choose just to get a degree in something really difficult.
• 38:22
  Speaker 6: If you don't adopt those things, then like nature, reality
• 38:25
  Speaker 6: will judge you and you're going to get fat and
• 38:27
  Speaker 6: old or have no meaning.
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: You're also going to get anxiety over almost anything.
• 38:31
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: Almost anything and everything. The people that I know that
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: freak out the most about things don't do anything difficult. Right.
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: And they're the ones that are freaked out all the
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: time about things that I'm like, let's walk it off.
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: You're going to be fine.
• 38:43
  Speaker 6: One of the things that works really well for my
• 38:44
  Speaker 6: wife is I'll tell her to do something creative when
• 38:47
  Speaker 6: she's feeling anxiety. She'll like paint or draw or build
• 38:51
  Speaker 6: something or do something. And that seems to be a
• 38:54
  Speaker 6: good way to get like the creative juices flowing and
• 38:57
  Speaker 6: just like complete something. Because I think one of the
• 38:59
  Speaker 6: other problems is that we work, both of us work
• 39:01
  Speaker 6: in the tech industry and the job's never done. Like
• 39:07
  Speaker 6: when you're building software, you're building things like it almost
• 39:09
  Speaker 6: never gets finished. It's always like we're done with this thing.
• 39:12
  Speaker 6: It's on to the next thing. So you don't get
• 39:14
  Speaker 6: that sense of like, you know, I would go back
• 39:17
  Speaker 6: to North Dakota every year and just farm and drive
• 39:21
  Speaker 6: beat trucks for like two weeks. I'd take vacation to
• 39:23
  Speaker 6: go and farm and drive beat trucks, like do harvest
• 39:26
  Speaker 6: Cause I just liked it being done. And most times
• 39:28
  Speaker 6: I donated the money to my church. So I just
• 39:31
  Speaker 6: go home and drive trucks for two days, 12 hours
• 39:33
  Speaker 6: a day, beat trucks where I'm following a loader, putting
• 39:37
  Speaker 6: beats into the back of the truck and driving it
• 39:38
  Speaker 6: there just because I was like, I did three fields
• 39:40
  Speaker 6: this week. I feel awesome.
• 39:41
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: You worked.
• 39:42
  Speaker 6: Yeah. I worked and I did physical labor and it's finished.
• 39:45
  Speaker 6: That's the best part about it is the work's done.
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: Well, there's something about that stuff that's very appealing to people.
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: That's why Yellowstone's appealing, right? These people, they have to
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: run these cows or they're going to not survive. I mean,
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: that's why we like, you know, these people that live
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: as trappers and they live in the fucking Siberian mountains.
• 40:04
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: There's something about that stuff that's just built into us.
• 40:07
  Speaker 6: I think we're probably more evolved for that than we
• 40:10
  Speaker 6: are for what is going on today. So it's satisfying
• 40:13
  Speaker 6: the same circuitry we talked about before.
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 40:16
  Speaker 6: Which is really what we're made for.
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: Which is interesting because, like, you recognize this, yet you're
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: in tech and you have an awesome application for phones.
• 40:25
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 40:26
  Speaker 6: But the goal of it is to get people out.
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: Right. That's true. Your tech is actually very good for
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: people that are outside and it actually helps you.
• 40:35
  Speaker 6: And because people have less time, they can scout at
• 40:38
  Speaker 6: home or, like, when they really want to get out
• 40:39
  Speaker 6: into the woods or, you know, September 13th and they
• 40:42
  Speaker 6: fly in two days, it's like, or I can go
• 40:43
  Speaker 6: scout this mountain. Yeah. digitally, find out places I want
• 40:46
  Speaker 6: to go and look at and then mark them and
• 40:48
  Speaker 6: then get on the app. But I always tell people
• 40:50
  Speaker 6: when we're developing the app too, like there's a bandwidth
• 40:54
  Speaker 6: between the brain, the thumbs and a phone. And the
• 40:57
  Speaker 6: amount of, I'm always trying to maximize that bandwidth. So
• 41:01
  Speaker 6: the less time that I have to interact with an
• 41:04
  Speaker 6: app in order to get more information, I've increased bandwidth.
• 41:07
  Speaker 6: So less buttons, less time, just let's just get them
• 41:11
  Speaker 6: the information they need. and get them focused on the woods.
• 41:14
  Speaker 6: Because if I had my way about it, they wouldn't
• 41:16
  Speaker 6: pick the phone up once they're in the woods. It
• 41:18
  Speaker 6: goes in their chest pocket or their rig or whatever,
• 41:20
  Speaker 6: and then they're hunting. This is the apps that I'm building.
• 41:24
  Speaker 6: Like we're just about to implement an awesome thermals feature
• 41:27
  Speaker 6: that we've been building for a long time. And we
• 41:30
  Speaker 6: can now accurately map thermals. So when you're elk hunting
• 41:33
  Speaker 6: and you see like a, you know, I'm waiting for
• 41:35
  Speaker 6: these thermals to switch because where these elk are at,
• 41:39
  Speaker 6: the sun is hitting the side of this mountain. Thermals
• 41:41
  Speaker 6: are rising from the bottom and the wind is coming
• 41:44
  Speaker 6: from the top. So there's no way to get to
• 41:46
  Speaker 6: these elk. So I need to wait for the thermal switch.
• 41:48
  Speaker 6: So with this update we're going to put out first
• 41:51
  Speaker 6: on the web, you can pick a day, time of
• 41:53
  Speaker 6: the year. You can go historical and look up historical weather.
• 41:56
  Speaker 6: So you can say these elk were in this area.
• 41:58
  Speaker 6: I dropped this pin. Now I'm going to place this
• 42:00
  Speaker 6: marker here and I want to see how the thermals
• 42:02
  Speaker 6: are acting in the area. This is what kills most
• 42:04
  Speaker 6: hunters is not understanding how thermals work, especially whitetails and
• 42:08
  Speaker 6: elk hunters. They don't know how the thermals work or
• 42:10
  Speaker 6: they don't understand it. Or they've never gone in the
• 42:12
  Speaker 6: off season.
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: What we're talking about with people that don't know what
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: the fuck we're talking about, when the morning is happening,
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: when it's cold and early in the morning, all the
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: wind is going down the mountain. When it gets hot,
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: then all of a sudden the ground heats up and
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: then the wind starts going up the mountain. So when
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: these animals are below you, as you're coming down the mountain,
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: they're going to smell you immediately because all the smell
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: is coming down. So you have to approach them from
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: the bottom. And then when they're above you, if it
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: starts getting hot out, you've got to get above them
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: and you've got to get above them quick or they'll
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: blow out. They'll blow out of there. And they can
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: smell you from forever away. I've seen animals smell me
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: from 100 yards away.
• 42:52
  Speaker 6: It's wild. I've seen good data on studies. And a
• 42:56
  Speaker 6: buddy of mine, he used to take– a friend of mine,
• 42:58
  Speaker 6: he died in 2017, but he's a prolific whitetail photo–
• 43:02
  Speaker 6: He took photos of whitetails. He had a deer pen
• 43:05
  Speaker 6: and there was a mountain that was a three quarter
• 43:07
  Speaker 6: mile away from his property in New York. And when
• 43:10
  Speaker 6: those does came into heat, all of the bucks would
• 43:12
  Speaker 6: gather at the base of this fence to smell the
• 43:16
  Speaker 6: wind coming off this mountain of these does that were
• 43:18
  Speaker 6: three quarter mile away. So you think about that, like
• 43:21
  Speaker 6: how well they can smell. And so, yeah, we're putting
• 43:24
  Speaker 6: this thermal feature out. But the thermal feature, the reason
• 43:26
  Speaker 6: I bring that up is because it's designed to be
• 43:28
  Speaker 6: used at home. So you can map the thermals for
• 43:30
  Speaker 6: an area. You can put in the temperature. You can
• 43:32
  Speaker 6: put in the wind speed. And this engine beautifully maps
• 43:36
  Speaker 6: exactly how the scent is going to move around on
• 43:38
  Speaker 6: this mountainside.
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: Can I ask you this? Does it vary depending on
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: east or west slope? Because if it's east slope, the
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: thermals will rise quicker, right?
• 43:45
  Speaker 6: Yes. And yes, because the sun and the incidence of
• 43:49
  Speaker 6: the sun. Because what we had to build into this
• 43:51
  Speaker 6: was an extremely high resolution topographic layer. We had to
• 43:56
  Speaker 6: have this engine... But then we also had to put
• 43:58
  Speaker 6: like canopy cover into this.
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: Oh, wow.
• 44:01
  Speaker 6: So it modulates differently based on the type of canopy
• 44:03
  Speaker 6: that it's in, whether it's elk on the side of
• 44:05
  Speaker 6: a hill or it's in the open air or it's
• 44:08
  Speaker 6: elk inside of a bunch of hemlocks or not hemlocks,
• 44:11
  Speaker 6: but like aspens or something like that. It's going to
• 44:14
  Speaker 6: change how those thermals work. And I've been using it
• 44:18
  Speaker 6: just the other day. I've got these spots with whitetail.
• 44:20
  Speaker 6: It's a little different because The bucks know where these
• 44:23
  Speaker 6: thermals are as bucks get older. And we'll get off
• 44:25
  Speaker 6: the white-tailed deer. I apologize, but you got me hyped
• 44:28
  Speaker 6: up on hunting.
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: No, I love white-tailed deer. It's number one most hunted
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: big game animal in America. Yeah, I know.
• 44:32
  Speaker 6: I just mean hunting writ large. I doubt most people
• 44:35
  Speaker 6: want to hear me talk about hunting. Okay, cool.
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: I think people like hearing people talk about things that
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: are very fascinating to them. And I think people that
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: don't understand hunting, especially people that think it's easy. You
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: really don't understand what it is. You really don't understand
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: how complicated it is. Particularly bow hunting, but even rifle
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: hunting is easy. Good fucking luck. Rifle hunting is not easy.
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: There's so much territory. You have no idea how big
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: the mountains are. When you get out there, it is
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: insanely hard. It's all hard. Yeah, it's a little easier
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: than archery in that you can be 300 yards away
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: and accurately shoot. Okay, still not easy. Not by, that's
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: like saying that boxing is slightly easier than MMA. Boxing's
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: not easy.
• 45:20
  Speaker 6: Shut the fuck up.
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: They're hard things to do and especially to do them
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: well and to understand all the different, like when I
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: first started hunting, when Steve Rinella took me, that's that
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: mule deer that I got right there in 2012. That's
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: when I first started hunting. Immediately I was like, oh
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: my God, this is so much more difficult and there's
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: so much more to learn than I ever understood. It's
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: layer upon layer. It's so complex.
• 45:44
  Speaker 6: Especially to be good at it.
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: And I'm not that good at it. I mean, I'm
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: successful at it, but it's also a lot of it
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: because I use really good guides and people help me.
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: And I can handle pressure. And I'm in shape. So
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: there's those things. But I'm learning things all the time.
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: I'd say like if I was a hunter, if it
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: was like a jujitsu belt, I'd be like a high-level
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: purple belt, maybe a brown belt. But I'm not a
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: black belt. I know the difference. There's like when I
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: hunt with Cam Haynes, I'm like, oh, okay. Yeah.
• 46:10
  Speaker 6: I don't know anything.
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: He's a six degree black belt. He shows me things
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: all every time. I've known that guy for 12 fucking years.
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: And every time we hunt together, he shows me something new.
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: And I learned something new, some new approach, some new
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: way to handle a situation. This is what's going on.
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: They're going to do this. This is why they're going
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: to do this. You got to know that we got
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: to get ahead of them. Like there's things he knows
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: that I don't know. And you only learn with time
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: and with studying and And when it becomes the primary
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: focus of your life. And for me, it takes over
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: my life around June. Around June, it just takes over
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: my mind.
• 46:43
  Speaker 6: Yes.
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: I do other things, but I'm thinking about September.
• 46:46
  Speaker 6: Same thing. When I was driving yesterday, I was telling
• 46:48
  Speaker 6: my family, I'm like, I'm watching the leaves change. All
• 46:50
  Speaker 6: I can think about is I want to be in
• 46:51
  Speaker 6: those trees right now. There's something about, well, anyway, to
• 46:55
  Speaker 6: finish the point on the thermals, I marked some of,
• 46:58
  Speaker 6: using this model, I marked some of my best whitetail
• 47:00
  Speaker 6: hunting spots in the mountains. And then I mapped the
• 47:04
  Speaker 6: thermals and looked at the thermals. And it became apparent
• 47:07
  Speaker 6: why deer were using these routes because an old wise
• 47:10
  Speaker 6: whitetail buck knows he's getting thermals from like 320 degrees
• 47:14
  Speaker 6: are funneling into this one spot based on the predominant
• 47:17
  Speaker 6: wind for the area, all these things that the app
• 47:19
  Speaker 6: can tell you. And it's like, oh, that's why he's
• 47:21
  Speaker 6: always been in this spot because he knows the whole
• 47:23
  Speaker 6: mountain before he ever steps a foot on it. He
• 47:26
  Speaker 6: knows if there's a hot doe on that mountain. He
• 47:28
  Speaker 6: knows if there's hunters on that mountain. He knows if
• 47:29
  Speaker 6: there's anything on that mountain. He can smell it. And
• 47:32
  Speaker 6: it really has opened my eyes, like I can't wait
• 47:34
  Speaker 6: to get this feature out so people can see it.
• 47:36
  Speaker 6: But the goal to put a bow on this is
• 47:39
  Speaker 6: to get people out and experiencing it because I think
• 47:42
  Speaker 6: it's a great mechanism for coming of age for young kids. Like, hey,
• 47:48
  Speaker 6: you're 14 or 15 or whatever. I'm going to treat
• 47:50
  Speaker 6: you like a man from today. We're going to go
• 47:52
  Speaker 6: out and kill an animal and eat it together and
• 47:53
  Speaker 6: get a bunch of guys together for men, I think.
• 47:56
  Speaker 6: It works for women as well, but I'm saying particularly
• 47:59
  Speaker 6: for young men. we've kind of lost coming of age
• 48:03
  Speaker 6: rights or we've kind of like, you know, in Native
• 48:05
  Speaker 6: American tribes, you study or Viking or all of these other,
• 48:09
  Speaker 6: they had a time and place where it's like, now
• 48:11
  Speaker 6: you're a man, I'm going to treat you like a man,
• 48:12
  Speaker 6: no more excuses.
• 48:13
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 48:13
  Speaker 6: And we've kind of put that off and we kind
• 48:15
  Speaker 6: of spoke about this last time, but it's something that
• 48:18
  Speaker 6: I think we desperately need for young men because, and
• 48:21
  Speaker 6: for adults even who haven't really chosen to start acting
• 48:24
  Speaker 6: like men. And I can say, I act like a
• 48:26
  Speaker 6: child all the time, so I'm not a perfect dude,
• 48:28
  Speaker 6: but Um, the military was that for me. So mine
• 48:32
  Speaker 6: got kind of outsourced. Um, but it's, I think it
• 48:36
  Speaker 6: leads to a lot of problems that we have in
• 48:37
  Speaker 6: society today. Like things my grandpa used to bitch at
• 48:40
  Speaker 6: me about when I was a kid.
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: 100%. There's a lot of people who are never truly
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: tested and they live their life with this just cloud
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: of uncertainty. constantly hanging over them. And this lack of
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: understanding of their capabilities and how they can expand those capabilities.
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: That's the thing about being tested is that you realize like, oh,
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: I fell short. I suck at this. This is not
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: my thing. I got to learn how to do it.
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: And then you learn and then you realize, oh, I
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: can expand my potential in all things. I learned it
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: from martial arts. That's what happened with me when I
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: was young. I got into martial arts when I was 15,
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: like really heavily. And that it became my whole focus
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: and it changed my whole, the whole way I approached life.
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: I realized like that pressure and big moments and things
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: that are difficult are good for you. They're blessings.
• 49:30
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: And you, you learn about yourself from those things.
• 49:33
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 49:33
  Speaker 6: I think I talked about this with Andy, but I
• 49:36
  Speaker 6: think it was Plato, um, was, was, Not only known
• 49:39
  Speaker 6: for his great thinking, but known for his excessively good
• 49:43
  Speaker 6: wrestling ability.
• 49:44
  Speaker 3: Really?
• 49:44
  Speaker 6: Plato means broad or broad shoulders. That's what his name meant.
• 49:50
  Speaker 6: And he said it's one of the worst things in
• 49:52
  Speaker 6: life to go through life and not understand the full
• 49:55
  Speaker 6: potential of the human body. Like to not push yourself
• 49:58
  Speaker 6: physically to a place where, A, you understand the actual
• 50:02
  Speaker 6: capability of your body to make it through a situation.
• 50:05
  Speaker 6: And then B, to understand what type of person you
• 50:08
  Speaker 6: regress to when the chips are down, which was another
• 50:11
  Speaker 6: thing the military gave me. It wasn't like something I
• 50:14
  Speaker 6: had this profundity and I went out and searched for it.
• 50:16
  Speaker 6: It's like I'm in a SEER course where I'm being
• 50:19
  Speaker 6: pursued by, you know, operators. And because there's there's a
• 50:22
  Speaker 6: regular SEER courses in the military and then there's graduate
• 50:25
  Speaker 6: level SEER courses. What is a SEER course? Survive, Evade, Resist, Escape.
• 50:30
  Speaker 6: So in the initial one, which is kind of more
• 50:33
  Speaker 6: for pilots and aircraft crew members, they teach you how
• 50:37
  Speaker 6: to survive in the wild, how to evade, capture, like
• 50:41
  Speaker 6: if you're being pursued, and then if you're caught, how
• 50:43
  Speaker 6: to resist torture, enhanced interrogation methods, that type of thing,
• 50:47
  Speaker 6: and then how to escape. So you get kind of
• 50:50
  Speaker 6: like a watered-down version that a lot of people go to,
• 50:52
  Speaker 6: but then this high-risk officer pipeline or If you're in
• 50:56
  Speaker 6: JSOC and other organizations, they put you through like a
• 50:59
  Speaker 6: real deal Holyfield one. The one I went to was
• 51:02
  Speaker 6: like three weeks and they teach you picking handcuffs, how
• 51:06
  Speaker 6: to escape from a trunk, how to escape from a house,
• 51:08
  Speaker 6: how to improvise, like make firearms, shotguns, how to dress
• 51:13
  Speaker 6: a squirrel and eat it. But they put you through
• 51:17
  Speaker 6: like a week. I think it was actually six weeks,
• 51:19
  Speaker 6: maybe not four weeks, but you do two weeks of
• 51:22
  Speaker 6: training where it's like, You just sit in a place
• 51:23
  Speaker 6: and you're picking handcuffs. You sit in a place and
• 51:26
  Speaker 6: you're learning how to get out of a trunk. You
• 51:27
  Speaker 6: sit in a place and you learn how to conduct
• 51:30
  Speaker 6: polish on what you're wearing. So if you're spotted by
• 51:33
  Speaker 6: a policeman and you need to change how you look,
• 51:35
  Speaker 6: how do you polish yourself so you change your appearance?
• 51:38
  Speaker 6: So if they've got an APB out for a guy
• 51:39
  Speaker 6: in a gray shirt and black pants, how do you
• 51:42
  Speaker 6: change that quickly? Then after they teach you all that stuff,
• 51:45
  Speaker 6: they throw you into an operational scenario where you're just
• 51:47
  Speaker 6: being pursued by a bunch of people who do this
• 51:49
  Speaker 6: for a living. And, um, you know, my evasion was like,
• 51:53
  Speaker 6: I think like 12 or 13 miles to the Appalachian
• 51:55
  Speaker 6: mountains and you're sleeping on the ground at night. And
• 51:58
  Speaker 6: I actually had a crazy, it's the only thing that
• 52:02
  Speaker 6: ever happened to me. So I wasn't in an evasion.
• 52:06
  Speaker 6: People are going to make fun of me for the story,
• 52:08
  Speaker 6: but it's fine. Um, I was in the Appalachians and
• 52:13
  Speaker 6: I was like on day two or three or maybe
• 52:16
  Speaker 6: four or something like that. And I had eaten very little.
• 52:19
  Speaker 6: Before I left the town that I was in to
• 52:22
  Speaker 6: get up on– and they teach you like how not
• 52:25
  Speaker 6: to just walk a trail. You basically serpentine snake a trail.
• 52:29
  Speaker 6: So you know where the trail is. You can still
• 52:30
  Speaker 6: orient yourself but you're not following the trail because that's
• 52:32
  Speaker 6: going to make you easily caught. So you're running and
• 52:36
  Speaker 6: when they started the operational scenario, you're put in a
• 52:41
  Speaker 6: trunk of a car with a painting outfit on. You're
• 52:44
  Speaker 6: handcuffed and you're zip-tied. So you have to first defeat
• 52:47
  Speaker 6: all of those restraints. So you're learning– You learned how
• 52:50
  Speaker 6: to pick the cuffs. You learned how to get out
• 52:51
  Speaker 6: of duct tape or these other things. And then you
• 52:54
  Speaker 6: learn how to pop the trunk from the inside whenever
• 52:57
  Speaker 6: it's not built to be popped from the inside. Now
• 52:59
  Speaker 6: they have all those latches that you can pull and
• 53:01
  Speaker 6: just jump out. But they'll put you in like an
• 53:03
  Speaker 6: older vehicle. And then you have to evade. So now
• 53:06
  Speaker 6: you're running from people who are chasing you. And the
• 53:08
  Speaker 6: local authorities know that you're part of this course. And
• 53:10
  Speaker 6: they're also, if they see you, they'll also pursue you.
• 53:14
  Speaker 6: So you quickly learn how to change what you're wearing,
• 53:17
  Speaker 6: whether that's going to like a Wal-Mart donation point and
• 53:20
  Speaker 6: reaching in and grabbing clothes. Or, you know, at one
• 53:23
  Speaker 6: point in the course, I just put my whole bottom
• 53:25
  Speaker 6: half in a mud puddle. So my white outfit now
• 53:28
  Speaker 6: looked like I had black jeans on in the dark.
• 53:31
  Speaker 6: So you learn all these like, you know, little things
• 53:33
  Speaker 6: to do. And then you do the evasion part. Well,
• 53:35
  Speaker 6: during like day three of the evasion part, and I
• 53:37
  Speaker 6: still don't know if this is a dream or if
• 53:40
  Speaker 6: this happened. I'm pretty sure it happened. I'm 80% sure
• 53:43
  Speaker 6: it happened, but I hadn't eaten for a few days.
• 53:46
  Speaker 6: And I thought I ran into hikers on the Appalachian Trail.
• 53:50
  Speaker 6: So I came to an area and there were these
• 53:52
  Speaker 6: people sitting on a log. And again, I don't know
• 53:55
  Speaker 6: if this was a dream. I don't know if this
• 53:56
  Speaker 6: is because I hadn't eaten for days or because I
• 53:58
  Speaker 6: was being tracked or I was under a lot of pressure.
• 54:00
  Speaker 6: But I had like a quick conversation with them and
• 54:02
  Speaker 6: they're like, well, we're going to go to sleep. And
• 54:03
  Speaker 6: I was like, okay. And they had along the trail,
• 54:06
  Speaker 6: they had these like little open-faced cabins. And so I
• 54:10
  Speaker 6: saw them go into this open-faced cabin and go to sleep.
• 54:15
  Speaker 6: And then I started a fire and slept on the
• 54:20
  Speaker 6: ground next to the fire. And I just told them, oh,
• 54:22
  Speaker 6: I'm just, you know, they give you a cover. So
• 54:25
  Speaker 6: you can just tell people what your cover is while
• 54:27
  Speaker 6: you're in there when you interact with people. And so
• 54:31
  Speaker 6: I did all that. I started a fire. I'm sleeping
• 54:34
  Speaker 6: by this campfire. I wake up in the morning and
• 54:37
  Speaker 6: it was a big dirt area. So I wake up
• 54:39
  Speaker 6: in the morning and I looked over there like three
• 54:41
  Speaker 6: hours later. This was like 2 a.m. when I got
• 54:43
  Speaker 6: there and it's like 5 or 5.30 now. And I
• 54:45
  Speaker 6: look up and I'm like, oh, they're gone already. I'm like,
• 54:47
  Speaker 6: that's weird. So, um, like I start the fire again,
• 54:51
  Speaker 6: quickly warm myself up to keep evading. And, uh, then
• 54:54
  Speaker 6: I looked at the ground, there were no footprints anywhere.
• 54:57
  Speaker 6: So I was like, wait, did I see people here
• 54:59
  Speaker 6: last night or not? Like, did this happen or not?
• 55:01
  Speaker 6: And I'm like freaking out. I'm like, I'm not seeing, like,
• 55:03
  Speaker 6: there should have been dirt. Like I thought they were
• 55:05
  Speaker 6: sitting on a log. There's no log here. So when
• 55:07
  Speaker 6: I was debriefing after the course, I told the, you
• 55:10
  Speaker 6: do a debrief with like a, with a doctor. Um,
• 55:13
  Speaker 6: who's monitoring everyone. Cause at one point you're being slapped
• 55:16
  Speaker 6: around or you're locked in these cages or you're locked
• 55:19
  Speaker 6: in like at one point in the government detention part,
• 55:21
  Speaker 6: I'm locked in a cement block. Like you're in a
• 55:23
  Speaker 6: cement room where you can't stand up. You can't sit down.
• 55:26
  Speaker 6: It's too thin for you to like get on the ground.
• 55:28
  Speaker 6: And they're playing this horrible freaking music at the top
• 55:32
  Speaker 6: behind your head. It's like violins that make no sense.
• 55:35
  Speaker 6: And you're in there for like eight hours. And so
• 55:37
  Speaker 6: you really start getting like, have you ever done like a, uh,
• 55:40
  Speaker 6: like a, a dunk tank or like a tank where
• 55:42
  Speaker 6: it's dark?
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, sensory deprivation.
• 55:44
  Speaker 6: Yeah. So this is what this is. It's sensory deprivational.
• 55:46
  Speaker 6: You can't lay down. You can't stand up. You can't
• 55:48
  Speaker 6: get comfortable because it's only like five and a half
• 55:50
  Speaker 6: feet tall. It's too thin for you to lay on
• 55:53
  Speaker 6: the ground. They're playing this music in the back of
• 55:55
  Speaker 6: your head. And this is after you've been evading. So
• 55:57
  Speaker 6: you've been captured. So you're dehydrated. You haven't eaten. And
• 56:01
  Speaker 6: I was like seeing worms everywhere. And I was like,
• 56:03
  Speaker 6: I kept telling myself, you're hallucinating. Like I was seeing
• 56:05
  Speaker 6: like all these snakes inside of there. Like all this
• 56:08
  Speaker 6: awful shit is happening to you. And so I talked
• 56:10
  Speaker 6: to the doc afterwards. He's like, oh, no, I've heard
• 56:12
  Speaker 6: this story like 15 times.
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: Did he hear the story of people meeting people that
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: weren't there?
• 56:18
  Speaker 6: People meeting people that weren't there or having an experience
• 56:20
  Speaker 6: or being in a place. Because they do have you
• 56:23
  Speaker 6: with a GPS sensor in a fanny pack so that
• 56:27
  Speaker 6: if you get lost or you get turned up or
• 56:29
  Speaker 6: hit by a car or something like that, they know
• 56:31
  Speaker 6: where you are. But they don't use that to chase
• 56:34
  Speaker 6: you or they're not supposed to. Um, and so he,
• 56:37
  Speaker 6: he's like, yeah, I debriefed guys who thought they were
• 56:39
  Speaker 6: in like different parts of the city or they were
• 56:41
  Speaker 6: thought they were in a different area altogether. Um, or
• 56:44
  Speaker 6: they get lost and turn around, they're dehydrated. So like
• 56:46
  Speaker 6: when you're not eating for a while, you've got the
• 56:48
  Speaker 6: stress of being chased by people who do this for
• 56:49
  Speaker 6: a living. You haven't had any water, no reliable meals.
• 56:52
  Speaker 6: You're stressed out and you've been running for three or
• 56:54
  Speaker 6: four days. Like your mind starts doing things to you.
• 56:58
  Speaker 6: So I still, to this day, don't know if a,
• 57:00
  Speaker 6: that was a dream B I hallucinated those people or
• 57:02
  Speaker 6: C they were there and just like the dirt was
• 57:04
  Speaker 6: gone in the morning.
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: Guys, you know I'm into ketones and I rock with
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: ketone IQ, but here's something that blew my mind. Throughout history,
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: you see all these civilizations talking about fasting and how
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: good it can be for your body and brain. I
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: honestly feel sharper when I do it. That's because when
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: you fast, your body starts making its backup fuel, ketones.
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: They burn clean, last long, feel amazing, and they help
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: you with focus and mental clarity. But fasting is really hard.
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: So when I need to stay sharp, I take ketone IQ.
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: It delivers the same super fuel your body naturally makes
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: when fasting right to your brain. They help me drop
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: into laser-like focus when I want to stay locked in
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: and think clearly, and that's the beauty of it. You
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: get the benefits of ketones without having to fast. Finally,
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: you can pick it up at CVS nationwide, and your
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: first shot of Ketone IQ is always free. So head
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: to your local CVS and try one for yourself, or
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: go to ketone.com slash rogan for 30% off your subscription order.
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: Maybe they're interdimensional travelers.
• 58:07
  Speaker 6: Maybe they're interdimensional. It's possible.
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: If you're an interdimensional traveler, why do you have to
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: look like an alien, you know?
• 58:13
  Speaker 6: Yeah, that's true.
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: If you've got the ability to come here from another dimension,
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: I think you probably have the ability to look like
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: Elon Musk.
• 58:22
  Speaker 6: I think it's highly likely that Elon Musk is an
• 58:24
  Speaker 6: interdimensional traveler.
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: Something along those lines.
• 58:27
  Speaker 6: He's something.
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but that's my thought about aliens in general. I
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: think if they were amongst us, there's no way we
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: would ever know.
• 58:36
  Speaker 6: If they have the technology to do the things that
• 58:38
  Speaker 6: we think that they're doing, we are woefully inept to
• 58:41
  Speaker 6: try to comprehend or understand what it is they're doing
• 58:43
  Speaker 6: or who they are or what they're doing.
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: Right, and why wouldn't they be able to imitate us?
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: We're simple. And there's also so many different models of
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: us to choose from. There's so many different versions of
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: us that you could draw from and create a compilation and,
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: you know, make an artificial person or an image of
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: a person or just affect someone's visual cortex to the
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: point where they don't see you for what you really
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: look like.
• 59:06
  Speaker 6: Yeah, for sure.
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: That seems like simple compared to traveling interdimensional. or traveling interstellar. Yeah.
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: If they really do have these gravity drives that can
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: instantaneously transport you from one galaxy to another, I think
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: they could probably pretend they're a person.
• 59:21
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, we can screw with our own perception
• 59:24
  Speaker 6: all the time and then people explain it to you
• 59:26
  Speaker 6: and you're like, holy crap, I didn't even realize that.
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 59:28
  Speaker 6: I'm like, The two faces looking together with the vase.
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
• 59:32
  Speaker 6: There's one on the line where it's like it's a
• 59:34
  Speaker 6: block with like a black bar in the middle.
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: Uh-huh. Yeah, we did that the other day.
• 59:38
  Speaker 6: Oh, okay. Well, I won't retell the story.
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: Oh, we've done it twice. It's incredible. What is that
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: called again?
• 59:45
  Speaker 4: Corn sweet.
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, corn sweet.
• 59:46
  Speaker 6: Yeah, so your perception can be messed with.
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: That one's nuts.
• 59:50
  Speaker 6: Yeah, if you think you're in control of your faculties,
• 59:54
  Speaker 6: you rest on a limbic system and a central nervous
• 59:56
  Speaker 6: system that's been around for a long time And it's
• 59:59
  Speaker 6: very patterned the way that it metabolizes reality. And our
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 6: ability to mess with that is.
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: I wonder what evolutionary advantage, if any, there is in
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: being able to hallucinate when you're tired.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 6: I think there's probably something to do with... Well, I'm
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 6: not an expert on this, but I know that dreaming
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 6: is particularly important when it comes to that stage of
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 6: sleep cycle is where you store memories. So one of
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 6: the things that happens when you're not sleeping for a
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 6: long time is your memory is one of the first
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 6: things to go because you need those stages of sleep
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 6: in order to remember things.
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: Well, that makes sense because when I'm sleep-deprived, my memory sucks.
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 6: Yeah. I mean, I think dreams have a tremendous amount
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 6: of function. I myself am a huge believer. It's probably
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 6: one of the things I believe in most is dreams,
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 6: and this is going to sound crazy coming from somebody
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 6: who makes his living doing engineering, but I do think
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 6: that the collective subconscious– And the individual unconscious, we're resting
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 6: on millions of years of learned lessons that we can't
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 6: possibly be born with. And so they pop up out
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 6: of this collective subconscious. Like you see a person, you
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 6: just get the ick. You're like, I don't know what
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 6: I like this guy. I don't like this guy.
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 6: That lessons probably happened to your ancestors 10 million times.
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 6: And something is popping out of that substrate that you
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 6: don't have full access to. And it's telling you that
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 6: because it's a heuristic that has been adopted over a
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 6: million years of evolution or 300,000 years or whatever you
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 6: think humans have been around for. That story has been
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 6: told a million times. And I think dreams, it doesn't
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 6: make sense to me. And again, I'm not the expert
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 6: on this, but it's stuff that I think about all
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 6: the time. Actually, I was, um, back in the day,
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 6: I was trying to impress my now wife and she's
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 6: a mathematician and she, uh, you know, went to Johns Hopkins,
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 6: super smart, like just Outside of the normal distribution of people, especially,
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 6: you know, a woman who's really into mathematics is just
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 6: not normal. Or it's not, you know, there's far more
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 6: many men. I'm going to get shit on for this.
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 6: I meet way more men mathematicians than I do with women.
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 6: And I'm sorry I don't control the fabric of reality,
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 6: but it seems to be the case. I'm just observing things,
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 6: observing patterns. Anyway, she's a mathematician.
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: You covering all your bases.
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 6: Yeah. Well, dude, doing your podcast the first time, so
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 6: much hate.
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah. You got to stay out of the comments.
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 6: I don't know. I don't go to the, I didn't
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 6: read your comments. Where are you getting the hate?
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: DMs. Oh, well stay out of the DMs.
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 6: Yeah. Well, I will from now on.
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: You should close those off anyway.
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 6: Yeah. Um, but, uh, what, what, oh yes. So, um, dreams. Um,
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 6: I will have a problem in my life. And so
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 6: the reason I was talking about impressing my wife, um,
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 6: she was in the chaos theory and she's reading all
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 6: these books on chaos theory. And, uh, so I went
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 6: on YouTube to watch some videos about chaos theory. And
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 6: I actually, this is an origin story for me of
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 6: types of, of a type. I actually saw a Jordan
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 6: Peterson video, but it was not about chaos theory. It
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 6: was about chaos and order. Like it was like, you know,
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 6: it was one of those, but I didn't know. So
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 6: I clicked the video and this was before he blew up.
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 6: This was like, um, you know, when he was just
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 6: posting stuff on YouTube. So I watched this video and,
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 6: And my goal of watching the video was to get
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 6: into understanding chaos theory. But what I ended up doing
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 6: was getting into Carl Jung because I watched one of
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 6: these first videos. So I have a very addictive personality.
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 6: So I started reading every Carl Jung book I could,
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 6: like everything about the collective unconscious, the red books, everything
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 6: that he wrote, and really got into dreams. And this
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 6: might be a self-fulfilling prophecy. It doesn't matter because it's
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 6: particularly useful to me. But I'll have dreams where, and
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 6: I used to have a psychologist that I talked to
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 6: when I was in a kind of a depressive state
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 6: years ago. And I made sure to hire one who
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 6: was a union. So I would document my dreams and say,
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 6: here's what I had a dream about. And it just
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 6: became astonishing to me that my dreams were trying to
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 6: tell me things. And from an evolutionary standpoint, it made
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 6: sense to me that your body wouldn't just present you
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 6: fuzz like a TV screen, that dreams would have an
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 6: evolutionary function where you're able to draw on the lessons
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 6: of the past. And you could call that the collective unconscious.
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 6: You could call that the Holy Spirit of God. You
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 6: could call that transcendent reality. It doesn't matter. But there
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 6: seems to be something to dreams. I'm convinced of it
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 6: because I still document my dreams to this day. And
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 6: when things are happening in my life, the dream will
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 6: be telling me, like, here's where you're at. This is
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 6: what you need to do. And then we watch these
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 6: dreams manifested in reality through a particularly good book or
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 6: a particularly good movie. And it's tugging on that same
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 6: string where we're watching something and people have done this
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 6: better than me, but you're watching something and you're not
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 6: understanding what you're watching, but you know that you love
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 6: it and you want to keep watching it. And it's
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 6: because your unconscious is telling you there's a lesson here
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 6: for you. And I'm going to make you keep watching
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 6: this until you understand what the lesson is. And the
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 6: example I always give people is Let me tell you
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 6: a story. And the story is about a guy who's innocent,
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 6: but he's sentenced to death. And he had a collection
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 6: of disciples that followed him around. And he taught them
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 6: beautiful things about the world and the fabric of reality
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 6: and gave them appreciation for life. He died and was
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 6: reborn or raised from the dead, but also passed through
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 6: to this world through a woman's womb. And he's a
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 6: fisher of men. So I'll tell people that story and
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 6: I'll be like, what story am I telling you? They're like, well,
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 6: you're telling me the story of Christ. I was like, no,
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 6: I'm telling you the Shawshank Redemption. It's the greatest movie
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 6: of all time per IMDB, per Rotten Tomatoes. It's a
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 6: perfect movie. I'm not saying Stephen King wrote that book
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 6: to retell the Christ story. What I'm saying is that
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 6: story is a very base story, a story of the
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 6: complete perfect man who's innocent of a crime, who's tried
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 6: and killed for that crime, but reborn. And that's because
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 6: in the collective unconscious and in our lives, we need
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 6: to undergo those same things like I talked about before.
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 6: You have to force nature and reality onto you and
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 6: adapt to them and suffer a little death, like even
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 6: an ego death. Like you had a system, the system failed.
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 6: Now it's time for you to recalibrate that system and
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 6: then be reborn into the world. And so I think
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 6: all of those things are tightly coupled when it comes
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 6: to dreams, when it comes to media that we consume,
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 6: stories that hit with us and we don't understand why.
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 6: And great art is art that's made and the artist
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 6: doesn't even know the story that he's telling. He just
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 6: has a compulsion to tell the story and so they
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 6: write it down. And we don't know, like Stephen King
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 6: is a great author. I love consuming his stuff. But
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 6: he's more of a vessel to the unconscious than he
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 6: is somebody who just thinks up great stories.
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: Well, he wrote a lot of his stuff basically unconscious. Yeah.
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: Some of his great works. What do you mean by that? Well,
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: he doesn't even remember writing Cujo. Great movie. Yeah. Great book.
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: I didn't read the book. The book is fantastic.
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 6: I didn't read the book.
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 1: Well, he was heavily drinking and doing drugs back in
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: those days. Yeah. And he would just get blacked out
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: and write these books.
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: And I think it was Carrie too, right?
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 6: I'm not sure.
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: He's got a bunch of his books where some of
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: the best ones where he was just obliterated when he
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: wrote them.
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 6: And that was the way. He's tapping into that.
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: Get away from himself. Get out of his own way
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: and tap into that thing. Because that's one of the
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: things that creative people always talk about is getting out
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 1: of your own way. And finding that zone.
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 6: Haven't drunk a stupor. Cocaine to do stays. Have you
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 6: ever seen the movie Maximum Overdrive?
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 1: No memory of writing the book at all. Yeah, I did.
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 6: Oh, great book.
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: King wrote It between 81 and 85 while deeply dependent
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 1: on alcohol and cocaine. One of the best books. He
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: also wrote books like The Shining, Pet Sematary, and The
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 1: Tommyknockers during that era while regularly consuming alcohol, cocaine, Valium, Xanax, marijuana,
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 1: and even mouthwash. He's openly shared in his writing. Yeah,
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: it's in the book. He often had to stuff cotton
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 1: swabs in his nose to stop cocaine-induced nosebleeds from dripping
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: onto his typewriter. Fuck yeah. Yeah. Jeez. Meanwhile, some of
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: his best stuff.
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 6: Diving into unconsciousness and then like a hero coming back
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 6: with something, a story.
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 4: Have you ever heard of the hypnagogic state?
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 6: No.
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 1: Yes, I have, but I don't remember what that term is.
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 3: I have a perplexity describing Salvador Dali's use of it
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 3: because I've found a few people that did it, but
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 3: I was getting really into dreams too and was having
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 3: some weird sleep deprived visions.
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 4: And I found that this is a thing that smart people...
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 4: I guess, tapped into.
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 1: Being half awake and sleep deprived. Well, I told you
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 1: about the news radio writers. I've told you that before. Yeah.
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: And so the writers on news radio, they didn't do drugs,
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 1: but they would stay awake. So they'd stay awake till
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: like three o'clock in the morning and then start writing
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: the scripts.
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and everybody was just like delirious. And they would
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 1: write till like 6, 7 in the morning. We would
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 1: show up to do the table read, and these guys
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 1: were still awake from the night before.
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 6: Wow.
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 1: And hilarious shit because they were just like– it's like
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 1: they were high, but they weren't high. And they would
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: write these ridiculous, absurd scenarios and really hilarious lines, and
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 1: they were purposely doing it under sleep deprivation to induce
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 1: that state.
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 6: And that, I think is a, you know, it's going
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 6: to sound paradoxical to say it, but that's a heroic action, right?
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 6: Like going into, going into the unconscious, a place where
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 6: you're either depriving yourself, hurting yourself, but you're, you're, you're
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 6: diving into the mud, the, the, the, the water and
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 6: you're pulling out something great. Like it goes to what
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 6: you said about fishing. Like Christ said, I'll make you
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 6: fishers of men. And that means I'm going to dive
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 6: into the water to the abyss. I'm going to pull
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 6: out something of value and everyone gets to eat and
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 6: be happy. And that's the hero story, par excellence, is
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 6: people going into unsavory conditions, making sense of an unknowable environment,
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 6: recalibrating themselves and then returning. That's always the story in
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 6: the book, right? The hero gets defeated in the beginning.
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 6: He has to go through some type of transformational period,
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 6: which often, like Star Wars, he's in the swamp. Or
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 6: Thor Ragnarok, he goes to this upside-down world where he
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 6: has to fight the Hulk, who's his friend. Or any
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 6: of these movies... They have that and then there's the
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 6: return of the king where he sets order and makes
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 6: everything right. And dreams, I just– it's one of the
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 6: most valuable things to me. And one of the things
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 6: that kind of sucks about it is– and Jung talks
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 6: about this– is once you start to really learn and live,
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 6: like you try to become a better version of yourself,
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 6: you'll actually end up dreaming less. But when you do dream,
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 6: the dream will be more dense and And, but the
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 6: layers of the dream get more, um, the dream is
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 6: never just to solve one problem. It's usually, it's many
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 6: problems stacked on top of themselves.
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 1: So say that again, when you learn more about yourself.
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 6: When you start listening to the dreams and you start
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 6: living like.
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 1: You dream less.
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 6: Well, not, not necessarily. The better lesson is if you
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 6: start listening to your dreams and you start orienting yourself
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 6: based on the feedback that you're getting from the collective
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 6: unconscious or the word of God or the voice of God.
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 6: and you start setting your life in order, and you
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 6: start acting like a better person, the need for dreams
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 6: is not as profound.
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 1: How does he make this determination? Is he running a study?
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 1: How many people is he looking at? Is he dealing
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 1: with his own personal experiences?
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 6: So I read this, and I think it's called, I
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 6: think this was in the Red Book, but I'm not sure.
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 6: Or it might be, I can't remember, which might be
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 6: man and his symbols. It doesn't matter. But what he's
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 6: basically saying is, The dreams are there to provide you
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 6: input and corrective measures and to let you know the
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 6: archetype that you're acting out. And then once you start
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 6: setting yourself in order, a good marker is you're no
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 6: longer dreaming. In other words, you're doing the right thing now.
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 6: So your dreams don't have to keep giving you this feedback.
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 6: Jamie can pressure test me because I might be wrong
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 6: and I don't want to say something wrong on this
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 6: podcast of all.
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 1: But it's also, it's like.
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 4: This statement, this is taken from something he said. It's
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 4: almost like that, but it's not.
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 1: Dreams balance the conscious mind. If your waking mind is
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 1: overly rigid, hyper-rational, or arrogant, the dream will supply emotional, vulnerable,
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 1: or contradictory imagery to restore equilibrium. Interesting. Self-portrayal of the psyche.
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 1: Jung saw that a dream was a spontaneous self-portrayal in
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 1: symbolic form and of the actual situation in the unconscious.
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 1: They show you where you truly stand psychologically without the
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 1: ego's filters.
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 6: Yeah, dreams drive towards wholeness and self-realization. So what I
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 6: got from Jung was the more you start to become
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 6: more of a whole person and you engage in the self-realization,
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 6: the less utility the dreams will have and therefore you'll
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 6: have less of them. So in other words, if you're
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 6: doing well by yourself.
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 1: I understand this, but I don't understand how you'd be
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 1: able to study this unless it's all completely anecdotal from
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 1: an individual. Because you're one person and your thought process,
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 1: especially as a psychologist and a psychoanalyst, is going to
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 1: be very different than most people. So to say that,
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 1: it's got to be people that always dream like there's
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 1: people that have very vivid lucid dreams yeah and they're
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 1: they're able to cultivate those yeah.
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 6: And i would also say jung falls out of the
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 6: distribution of today what most people engage in is cognitive
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 6: behavioral therapy or cbt is not what jung was doing
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 6: like jung was far more radical and i wouldn't say
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 6: the most pre-reviewed guy in the world um so it
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 6: just it it and it could be like anything else
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 6: in life a heuristic that doesn't necessarily they're the right way.
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 6: And the reason I say that is because heuristic is
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 6: something that's not the right way to do something, but
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 6: it works for you. It's the right way to do
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 6: things for you. Um, and it just might be a
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 6: useful heuristic to me, but it, it certainly, um, I
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 6: can think of just, you know, a dream even I
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 6: had last week where I wrote it down and went
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 6: back to it the next day. Cause I woke up
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 6: at like four in the morning. I wrote it all down,
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 6: woke up the next day and looked at it and
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 6: it was like smacking me in the face. Like what
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 6: the dream was telling me.
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 1: Um, what was that? It, Is it personal?
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 6: I mean, I can talk at it at a high
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 6: general level, but it is personal. Problems with legal, with
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 6: some legal stuff. And, you know, I'm almost through it,
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 6: but it's taken a toll on me for about a
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 6: couple of years. And we got some resolution that was
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 6: some of what I wanted to see and some of
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 6: what I didn't want to see. And that night I
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 6: went to bed pretty angry. And then I had a
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 6: dream where I was on a train and And there
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 6: were these people that were like rendezvous people all over
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 6: the train and they were like, you know, biker looking guys,
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 6: kind of rough. And, uh, they were making fun of
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 6: me or they were telling me I wasn't shit. And
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 6: then some of them would challenge me to things. And
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 6: then in the dream, I met a woman and I
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 6: was like, Hey, I really don't know what's going on
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 6: in this dream. Like, or I'm not in this dream
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 6: in this, in this place. Like, can you help me out?
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 6: And she was like, well, you kind of have to
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 6: learn what's going on here on your own. Like, And
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 6: so at one point, a bunch of gunshots came from
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 6: the outside of the train. And I grabbed her like
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 6: as the guns were shooting. And I put myself in
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 6: between her and the gunshots where they're coming from. And
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 6: then she said when we got up and like the
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 6: gun stopped firing, she's like, OK, I can help you
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 6: out some here. And she started telling me things about
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 6: this this this train world that I was in. And
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 6: then a guy came and challenged me whose name was
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 6: also Bill, but he looked like an old bearded guy,
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 6: like an old biker beard guy. And we started fighting,
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 6: and I put him in an Americana, which anybody who
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 6: knows how to fight shouldn't succumb to an Americana.
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 1: What are you talking about?
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 6: Well, I'm saying like a– I'm fighting like a blue
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 6: belt and I try to hit him with a basic
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 6: jiu-jitsu move. He's going to fuck my world up.
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 1: Oh, I don't know about that.
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 6: Well, Andy would. Guys that– Gordon would.
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 1: Maybe a high-level black belt.
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 6: Well, I don't know.
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 1: It just seems– People get caught in Americanas all the time.
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 4: Maybe.
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 1: It's a legit move.
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 6: You know more of this than I do. But I
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 6: put him in an Americana and I ended up– not
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 6: that this is possible, but I ended up compound fracturing
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 6: his elbow.
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 1: It happens all the time.
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 6: And– he didn't quit. And the woman told me as
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 6: I was fighting, she's like, not only does he have
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 6: to say, uncle, you have to accept that he is
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 6: submitted before it's over. And so he was like, I'm
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 6: not done. And I was like, Oh my God. So
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 6: we keep rolling and I, he tackles me and I
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 6: get into a guard and I, and I put him
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 6: in an arm bar and I break his arm with
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 6: an arm bar, his other arm. And then he's like, okay,
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 6: I submit. And then she's like, now tell him you
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 6: accept his submission. And so I was like, I accept
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 6: your submission. And then, And then later in the dream,
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 6: like I get off this train.
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 1: This is a crazy fucking dream.
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 6: And I wrote it all down. I can show you
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 6: it on my phone when we get out of here
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 6: because I woke up at 4 a.m. and wrote it
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 6: all down. And then I got out of the dream
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 6: and I ran into my wife. And my wife said,
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 6: I'm going to get on the train as well. And
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 6: I feel like I need to go and test myself
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 6: or get into the world. And I was like, baby,
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 6: don't do that. Don't get on the train. It's not
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 6: a good place to be. It's horrible. It's horrible. don't
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 6: do it. And she's like, Oh, I feel like I
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 6: need to do it. And then I woke up. So
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 6: the dream, like I immediately knew just from like the
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 6: self study and reading these things, the train was a
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 6: framework for the legal system. In other words, there are these,
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 6: there are these people that speak terms you don't understand.
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 6: It's got a, it's got its own direction and inertia
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 6: and gravity and And you don't control where the train goes,
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 6: just like you don't control where a courtroom or a
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 6: judge or the justice system goes. You are subject to
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 6: everything that's happening in that train. And they're going to
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 6: say and do things that don't make sense to you
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 6: and that you're going to need someone else. And like
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 6: it said up there, a compensatory function for men is
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 6: usually an anima character. An anima relation is... You know,
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 6: I've heard you talk about this and what you're describing
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 6: is anima integration, but essentially men need to first become men.
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 6: And once men become men, then they can start integrating anima.
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 6: And what what a way easy way to say this
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 6: is a grandfather or a man needs to grow up
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 6: and become hard he needs to be disagreeable he needs
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 6: to fight he needs to learn how to push himself
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 6: and test himself and instill these masculine features into him
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 6: once he's done that then he can be the old
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 6: grandfather that's got like a granddaughter on his lap Um, or,
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 6: or he's emotional with a grandchild or he's starting to
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 6: learn really more about his wife, but he first needs
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 6: to learn himself. So he has to harden his masculine, um, his, his, um,
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 6: his masculine features before he integrates anima features, but anima
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 6: features in movies, um, or in books or in all
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 6: of these things, it's usually a character. Like if you
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 6: watch the movie Wolverine, um, or not Wolverine, if you
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 6: watch the Logan movie, he's got a young version of himself.
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 6: Who's a woman. who has no ability to speak. So
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 6: she lacks logos. She lacks an ability to express herself
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 6: in the world. And as she starts to integrate and
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 6: get closer to Logan, who's this masculine character, she finally
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 6: adopts logos and starts to speak towards the end of
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 6: the movie and even starts speaking English. And because they're
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 6: the same person, she's a clone of him, Jung would
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 6: say that's the anima part of Logan that he needs
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 6: to integrate before he can defeat the bad guy in
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 6: the end of the movie. So this anima character on
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 6: this train who is a particularly good lawyer or someone
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 6: who understands this world that I don't understand. And I
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 6: need to show them something like protecting her from the
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 6: gunfire before she starts telling me about this world and
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 6: how it works. In other words, I have to use
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 6: that compensatory relating function in order to understand this train
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 6: that I'm on that I've got really no control over.
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 6: And that the stakes of this fight were far bigger
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 6: than I ever thought they were. And that the person
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 6: that I'm fighting, which is not the person I'm fighting
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 6: in court or not the person that I'm fighting in life,
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 6: was actually me. And there's a part of me that
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 6: I was experiencing that dream who's not willing to give
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 6: the fight up. He will fight until he's gotten an Americana,
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 6: until he's got a broken arm, until he's got an
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 6: ankle lock and he can't walk anymore. My dream was
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 6: warning me about taking this to the end. And if
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 6: you take this to the end, it could be bad
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 6: or it could be good. We don't know.
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 1: Well, it can consume your life.
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 6: It could consume me.
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 1: More importantly. Yes.
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 6: And consume millions of dollars and consume everything else. And
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 6: so my dream was readying me and saying, look, you're
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 6: at a threshold where you have to open yourself up
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 6: to parts and really learn the justice system and really
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 6: learn these things or you're not going to be ready
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 6: for the fight. And the fight's not against the other guy.
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 6: The fight's actually against yourself.
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 6: And so that's the nexus of the dream. The dream
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 6: is not telling me about the future. It's telling me
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 6: where I am at this point in time. So it's
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 6: very useful to me, these things. And we see them
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 6: reflected in media. Like I said, in that Logan movie
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 6: I talked about, he actually fights himself. And that himself
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 6: that he fights, the clone, have you seen the movie?
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 1: No.
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 6: He's got no logos. He can't speak. And this daughter
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 6: or this clone of him has no logos and he
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 6: cannot speak. And they're moving from south of the border
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 6: um which is this like chaotic desert wasteland up into
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 6: north dakota actually in the movie which is this like
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 6: garden of eden type of place and it's there it's
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 6: this like buddy travel story across this place where he
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 6: has to integrate these parts of himself in order to
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 6: finally defeat his shadow self which is a union thing
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 6: which is this other wolverine with no ability to speak
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 6: who's this animalistic version of himself and only then in
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 6: the end of the movie he's It's really the story
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 6: of Moses, but in the end of the movie, he's
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 6: literally hung on a tree and killed by his own
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 6: shadow self. And then only then can this new version
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 6: of him, this animated integrated version of him, go north
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 6: into Canada and live freely. So it's one of the
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 6: highest grossing Marvel movies of all time. I think it
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 6: made over a billion dollars. But it's telling a very
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 6: old story. And that old story that it's telling is
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 6: an ascent of a mountain like Moses to go up
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 6: and get the new law. But it's also an ascent
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 6: of the mountain that will ultimately lead to your crucifixion,
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 6: but it will save everyone else that you love. It's like,
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 6: you know, the Jews in the wasteland. It's this death
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 6: and rebirth story that it speaks to a very deep
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 6: level in people. And even as engineering minded as I
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 6: am and as scientifically minded as I am, I can't
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 6: dispense with something when it's as useful as it is. Um,
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 6: there's just something there that keeps scratching at me and
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 6: I can't let it go. And it's part of my
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 6: addictive personality. Like I said, I've consumed like Eric Neumann
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 6: and Carl Jung and Freud and Adler and all of
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 6: these great authors who wrote about all of this, the
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 6: perseverance of the human soul under extraordinary circumstances. Um, you
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 6: can't dispatch with these things because it got these people
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 6: to where we are today. And there seems to be
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 6: some truth there.
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 1: So, Well, it's undefinable and it's very strange. Whatever the
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 1: dream state is, there's something going on there that's very odd. Very,
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 1: very odd. And I don't dismiss it. I don't understand it.
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 1: I don't dismiss it. But I'm very wary of people
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 1: who are clearly defining it, like mapping the territory. Yeah.
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 1: I don't know if you have the ability to do that.
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 1: And I think people want to define things. That are
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 1: undefinable because it gives them comfort.
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 6: For sure.
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 1: That there's a structure to things that, you know, they
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 1: can say, oh, I get it now. I don't know
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 1: if you're ever going to get it.
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 6: I think it's the same thing that you get when
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 6: you hear from people. When I was 16, it was
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 6: the only time I've ever done drugs in my whole
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 6: entire life. And I can now say this, that I'm
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 6: out of the military.
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 1: That's outrageous.
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 6: I've never done anything. But when I was a child.
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 1: Meanwhile, you're doing drugs right now.
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 6: Right, nicotine. When I was a child, some friends gave
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 6: me mushrooms. when I was like 16 and it was
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 6: crazy experience. Um, and, uh, it, it, it also, I
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 6: won't tell the story cause we've already done this once,
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 6: but it also led me to an updating of my
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 6: system and an understanding of who I am.
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 1: How come you never did it again?
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 6: I was in the military.
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 1: How come you don't do it now?
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 6: Security clearance. Um, I don't know. I just, uh, I'm
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 6: not saying I wouldn't. All I'm saying is I'm so
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 6: hyper focused on what I'm doing now that I don't,
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 6: I don't, There'll be a time and a utility for it.
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 6: There'll be a time and place for it. And I
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 6: do think I've talked to lots of veterans, other guys
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 6: who have done like the, they go to South America
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 6: and they do Ibogaine. And, you know, I talked to
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 6: one guy who said, you know, he had a ton
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 6: of antidepressants and medication and stuff. And he went down
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 6: there and did that. And when he got back, he
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 6: threw it all away and he was better afterwards. So
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 6: there's definitely value there. But again, that's that, That's that
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 6: pattern of diving into unconsciousness and diving into this world
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 6: that will judge you. And some people come back better.
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 6: Some people come back broken. Some people overcook the goose.
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 6: I'm not sure. I think I would probably do it
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 6: one day. I'm just so busy building. I would worry.
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 6: I also worry about my mind. Like I also know
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 6: I would never do like a cocaine thing. Or I
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 6: would never do some of these other drugs because I'm
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 6: really already highly strung. I'm already hyper-focused on things.
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's why I've avoided Adderall. Even though it's very
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 1: interesting to me.
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 6: I would never be able to get near... I might
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 6: want to try it once. I do nicotine because it
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 6: helps me think. It's the only thing that can make
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 6: me focus. I don't do... too many a day but
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 6: when I do them it's usually when I'm trying to
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 6: think about a problem or like zero in on something
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 6: whereas other people it like makes them feel like giddy
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 6: or high or whatever I get no feeling from this
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 6: other than like.
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 1: It just yeah it's a definite nootropic.
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 6: Makes the world focus in and I had it when
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 6: I was in Iraq on my second tour to Iraq
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 6: I started doing like mint skull because we'd convoy like
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 6: a long ways And there wasn't anything to do. It's
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 6: not like we had a turtle box or a Bluetooth
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 6: speaker in the Humvee. You just had six hours of
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 6: driving in front of you. So I'm going to throw
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 6: a skull in, just like mint skull. But then I
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 6: started brushing my gums away, so I quit. And then
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 6: when this stuff came out, I was like, oh, I
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 6: get to get the nicotine without brushing my gums away?
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 6: Sign me up.
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 1: Right. Yeah, it's very addictive to people. It's interesting. This stuff,
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 1: these pouches have come out of nowhere.
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 6: I get off of them every once in a while.
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 6: Like I'll switch to, there's this one that I use
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 6: that's got no nicotine in it.
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 1: Ultras?
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 6: Ultras. Yeah. So I'll just do like that for like
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 6: two or three weeks.
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Those are great. And then. That's just nootropics.
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 6: Yeah. And so I'm not, you know, wired up. Like
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 6: the first day is always like, this kind of sucks.
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 6: Like I want one. I don't have like the comedown
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 6: that most people have where I'm like, I'm going to
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 6: kill someone if I don't do one right now.
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah. It's interesting. But I do get.
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 6: I do get disagreeable.
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 1: I don't. I think it's biological, man. I can just
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 1: stop taking them. I took them like when I was
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 1: on vacation. I took off 10 days and no problem
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 1: at all. And I do that all the time. I
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 1: take three, four days off. It doesn't irritate me. But
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 1: I think that's biological. I think some people have that
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 1: weird thing and some people don't. And some people, it
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 1: gets in their system to the point where they need
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 1: it all the time. And some people don't. I've heard
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 1: horror stories of people. I've also heard horror stories of
• 1:28:30
  Speaker 1: people with other stuff that I find really troubling, like Kratom.
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 1: Kratom's a big one.
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 6: What is that? I'm sorry.
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 1: That's that weird fucking it's kind of an opiate and
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 1: it's everywhere. It's in those live free drinks and those,
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of different, like they banned the synthetic
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 1: version of it from gas stations. Now people are buying
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 1: this stuff and convenience stores and weird sketches.
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, man.
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 6: That you can buy in a grocery store or a
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 6: convenience store?
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 1: You can get it from a leaf, right? It's from
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 1: a plant called the kratom leaf. I don't know what
• 1:29:04
  Speaker 1: the plant is. But this stuff has become very popular.
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 1: And I've heard horror stories of people going to like,
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 1: you know, a quote unquote health food store, like a
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 1: juice shop. And they have these little live free drinks.
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 1: And they go, oh, this must be healthy. It's in
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 1: this place. And you drink it and you're fucking vomiting.
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 1: And it's like you feel like you're on opiates. Wow.
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 6: I've not even ever heard of this.
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah. It's interesting because there was a guy that he
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 1: had some real problems with opiates. And then he started
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 1: telling me that he got off opiates, got clean. And
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 1: then he was telling me about kratom, that he takes kratom.
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 1: And I say, what is this stuff? And he said, well,
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 1: at low doses, it acts almost like a stimulant, like caffeine.
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 1: And then at higher doses, it more relaxes you. And
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 1: I'm like, okay. like, well, how much do you take?
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 1: So he told me, well, you know, if you want
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 1: to take a couple of them, like before a podcast
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 1: or something, try it. And I did. And I was like,
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 1: this is kind of interesting to a couple of pills.
• 1:30:04
  Speaker 1: I was like, it is, it's kind of like a
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 1: little stimulant, no big deal. And then I said, how
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 1: much do you take? And, uh, he said, well, before
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 1: I wake out, work out, I take 10. So I said, what?
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 1: I go, you take 10. I go, what does that
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 1: feel like? He goes, I don't have a problem with
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 1: it at all. So I took 10 and, uh, I
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 1: called him up and I said, hey, man, I go,
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 1: you're high. I go, you're getting high. This is you're
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 1: not sober. Like, this is not a sober thing. You're this.
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 1: I'm high as fuck right now. It was a weird
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 1: high because it was a high that didn't seem to
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 1: affect my motor skills. So it was at the studio.
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 1: I did it. So I worked out, have no problem
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 1: working out. It didn't affect my cardio. It didn't affect
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 1: my ability to lift weights, didn't affect anything. And then
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 1: I was playing pool. It didn't affect my ability to
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 1: play pool either. It didn't, like, fuck with my motor skills. Like,
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 1: alcohol will.
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 6: What do you feel like when you're on it?
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 1: Oh, it's weird. It's a weird high. But whatever it is,
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 1: it's a high. I was like, dude, you're high as fuck.
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 1: If you're taking 10 of these, like, you're not sober. And,
• 1:31:10
  Speaker 1: you know, I think there's a bunch of people that
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 1: have had problems with opiates that don't recognize that this
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 1: takes them down that same road. And then I know
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 1: a lot of people that are heavily addicted. to crate
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 1: them and can't get off of it wow like friends
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 1: i have one good friend who takes it every day
• 1:31:28
  Speaker 1: he's taking he drinks bottles of these things and he's
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 1: drinking like six a day i was like fuck dude
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 1: that's crazy.
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 6: I i i'm so afraid of drugs um just because
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 6: i come from a family of not to smite my
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 6: own i love my family but just drug addicts and alcoholics.
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 1: Many people do i mean it's it's not nothing to
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 1: be ashamed of it's normal.
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 6: I think i'm the only one who's not been to
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 6: jail or rehab.
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 1: That's crazy.
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 6: And then, you know, I've got two sisters that died
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 6: from overdoses and a brother that killed himself. Um, I just, yeah,
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 6: two years ago or three years ago, my sister, Jenny
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 6: died maybe even longer, four years ago. And then my sister, Heather,
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 6: who was most like me in the family. In other words,
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 6: like we both wanted to get out of North Dakota and, um,
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 6: she married into a great family, like one of the
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 6: best families I've ever seen. And then got on antidepressants.
• 1:32:18
  Speaker 6: And then I believe when she got off the antidepressants,
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 6: it was really rough, like a really rough time for her.
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 6: And she got addicted to methamphetamines and then ended up
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 6: leaving her family and going up to like Fort McMurray, Alberta.
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 6: And she was up there for like seven years and
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 6: wouldn't talk to any of us. And her and I
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 6: were very close growing up. We were the most alike
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 6: and that we just wanted to leave North Dakota and
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 6: see the world and do things. and, So while she
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 6: was up there, she was at like a rehab facility and,
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 6: and this wacky fucking Canadian America's top hat place. Um,
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 6: they would give them meth once a week at the facility. Yeah.
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 6: And so she either stored up her meth, like didn't
• 1:33:05
  Speaker 6: do it one week and kept it and faked it
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 6: or got some from someone else, but did like a
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 6: critical amount of meth and killed herself at the facility. And, and, um,
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 6: they would give you meth? They were giving it. I mean,
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 6: why were they giving you meth? Jamie, you can look
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 6: this up, but there's a term for it. And I
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 6: don't remember what it was. Cause I asked the same question.
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 6: Cause her brother or my brother, ex brother-in-law, her husband,
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 6: Rick told me, and I was like, why are they
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 6: giving it to people? And he's like, well, they wanted
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 6: them doing it like in a clean, safe environment instead
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 6: of like out on the streets. And I'm like, how
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 6: about we just get them off of that shit? Like,
• 1:33:40
  Speaker 6: can we all agree that's bad?
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah. What a strange strategy. This is the strategy that
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 1: they employ in a lot of these cities, right, where
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 1: they give people access to drugs that are safe, and
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 1: they also give them clean needles and crack pipes. This
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 1: is something that you see particularly on the West Coast.
• 1:33:57
  Speaker 1: It's a very common thing in the Pacific Northwest. There's
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 1: a bunch of these places that will give people, they
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 1: give them money, they'll give you drugs, and they'll give
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 1: you needles. And the idea is that you're providing them
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 1: with safe access.
• 1:34:12
  Speaker 6: Well, it killed my sister. Well, she killed herself, but
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 6: I'm saying, you know, my family is just the story,
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 6: not the story of it. There's good people in my family,
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 6: very good people that I love very much. So I'm
• 1:34:22
  Speaker 6: not trying to smite my own, but we have a
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 6: problem with addiction.
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 1: Dude, a lot of people have a problem with addiction,
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 1: whether they believe it or not. You know, I think
• 1:34:31
  Speaker 1: addiction is a normal part of human behavior. And I
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 1: think there's probably an evolutionary aspect to that. I think, um,
• 1:34:42
  Speaker 1: Addiction is what allows people to get very focused on
• 1:34:46
  Speaker 1: certain things, like to become a good hunter. We have
• 1:34:51
  Speaker 1: to be very addicted to the idea of hunting. And
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 1: I think that same sort of pathway can be very destructive.
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 1: And it can be very destructive like you can get
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 1: addicted to gambling, which I've seen a lot of people
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 1: get addicted to gambling. Or you can get addicted to
• 1:35:07
  Speaker 1: drugs and alcohol. You know, there's this guy that I
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 1: knew that was a world-class pool player, like one of
• 1:35:12
  Speaker 1: the best in the world. And he hurt his back
• 1:35:15
  Speaker 1: in a car accident and then become addicted to pills.
• 1:35:18
  Speaker 1: And my friend Tommy said this best. He said the
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 1: same thing that made him great at pool made him
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 1: addicted to those fucking pills. Like he couldn't put them down.
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 1: He was just invested in those pills. He wanted to
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 1: take them all the time. And he died of a
• 1:35:30
  Speaker 1: drug overdose young. And this was a guy that never drank,
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 1: never smoked, was clean, sober, and was just his number
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 1: one focus ever. was just being the best pool player
• 1:35:38
  Speaker 1: in the world. And I think that thing that we
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 1: all have, especially some people have in spades, I have it,
• 1:35:49
  Speaker 1: is I become very addicted to things.
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 6: Yeah, me too.
• 1:35:52
  Speaker 1: I'm very focused on things where it consumes me.
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 6: Golf did that to me. I don't golf anymore, but
• 1:35:59
  Speaker 6: I got to where I was like a six handicap,
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 6: which is a fairly good golfer.
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 1: What are you, Jimmy?
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 3: About 14, 15.
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 6: So I just shot a play. I had played for
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 6: the first time in a few months the other day
• 1:36:13
  Speaker 6: and just shot like 12 over, which is like a
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 6: good golfer. But there was a point when I lived
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 6: in Hawaii that I was like, you know, I shot
• 1:36:20
  Speaker 6: a couple of par rounds, like one or two over.
• 1:36:22
  Speaker 6: And I did this solely because somebody told me I
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 6: was too much of a fucking gorilla and I'd never
• 1:36:27
  Speaker 6: be good at it. That was the sole reason. Every
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 6: time I was practicing, I'm like, I'm going to show
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 6: that motherfucker. I'm going to show him. I'm going to
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 6: show them.
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 1: That's so ridiculous.
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 6: I'm going to beat it. And I like devoted my
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 6: whole life to it. And then when I got really
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 6: good and I was better than most people I ran into,
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 6: I lost all interest. I hardly ever do it now.
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 1: Really?
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 6: Hardly ever do it. It's how am I, that's, it's
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 6: really weird. It's happened to me a couple of times
• 1:36:48
  Speaker 6: in life where I would go down a road of addiction.
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 6: Just fortunately, the addictions were in like positive kind of,
• 1:36:56
  Speaker 6: you know, positive control loops where I would get, into
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 6: something hard. And then once I felt like I had
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 6: a certain level of mastery, I'd move on to something else.
• 1:37:08
  Speaker 1: Well, that's probably the part of you that wants to
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 1: learn something from scratch again to go through that same process. Yeah.
• 1:37:14
  Speaker 1: Which is, that's the most important part, I think. The
• 1:37:17
  Speaker 1: most difficult part is the beginning. Becoming a beginner at things,
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 1: I think is very beneficial.
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 6: The white belt. Yeah.
• 1:37:24
  Speaker 1: It's very beneficial to you to learn that there's something that,
• 1:37:26
  Speaker 1: oh my God, I know nothing about this. I'm terrible
• 1:37:30
  Speaker 1: at this. I have so much room to grow. Yeah.
• 1:37:32
  Speaker 1: Whereas something that you've been doing for a long, long time, it, it,
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 1: you know, it's, it becomes more of like fine tuning.
• 1:37:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:37:40
  Speaker 1: And these slow incremental improvements rather than understanding this, this
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 1: like enormous sea of information that you're not, you don't
• 1:37:48
  Speaker 1: have access to yet. Yeah.
• 1:37:49
  Speaker 6: With golf, it was like, I'm hitting the ball straight.
• 1:37:53
  Speaker 6: Moving on.
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 1: That's nuts.
• 1:37:55
  Speaker 6: Uh, like next thing, um, Bow hunting, though, is something
• 1:37:59
  Speaker 6: I haven't exhausted. Obviously, technology is something I haven't exhausted.
• 1:38:03
  Speaker 1: Well, I think bow hunting is so variable, too. There's
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 1: so many different things. If every shot was 20 yards
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 1: and every animal stood still, it would be boring. You'd
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 1: get bored of it. I don't think you'd get bored
• 1:38:14
  Speaker 1: of it, but it wouldn't have the same appeal that
• 1:38:17
  Speaker 1: it has where it's completely chaotic. One of you doesn't
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 1: even know the game you're playing. That's the animal. You know,
• 1:38:24
  Speaker 1: it's it's playing a different game it's game of survival
• 1:38:27
  Speaker 1: it's looking for predators and you are a predator but
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 1: it doesn't understand how you're doing it and your your
• 1:38:33
  Speaker 1: your thing is like to get to a position where
• 1:38:35
  Speaker 1: you can execute execute a shot and do it right
• 1:38:39
  Speaker 1: and then the amount of time that you have to
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 1: put into it I think is the real thing for
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 1: me it's like the understanding that look if I take
• 1:38:47
  Speaker 1: a few days off of archery And I go and shoot.
• 1:38:50
  Speaker 1: My first few shots are a little shaky. A lot
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 1: of times I'll still hit the 10 ring at 60
• 1:38:56
  Speaker 1: yards with a few days off. But it feels a
• 1:39:01
  Speaker 1: little odd. It doesn't feel 100% locked in. And then
• 1:39:05
  Speaker 1: I have to do it again until I'm locked in.
• 1:39:08
  Speaker 1: And if I had to shoot an animal like that,
• 1:39:10
  Speaker 1: like if I had a very difficult shot on an
• 1:39:13
  Speaker 1: elk at like 70 yards and I hadn't shot a
• 1:39:16
  Speaker 1: bow in two months, I would not take it. I
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 1: wouldn't be able to.
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:39:20
  Speaker 1: Which is nuts.
• 1:39:20
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 1: I've shot thousands of arrows at 70 yards effectively in
• 1:39:26
  Speaker 1: a lethal zone.
• 1:39:27
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 1: And yet I wouldn't be confident that I could do it.
• 1:39:31
  Speaker 1: Where there's a lot of other things that I would
• 1:39:33
  Speaker 1: be very confident that I could do if I hadn't
• 1:39:36
  Speaker 1: done in months.
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 1: It's weird.
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 6: It is weird.
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 1: And I think because of that, because it's such an
• 1:39:42
  Speaker 1: engrossing and involving process, the process of archery in particular-
• 1:39:47
  Speaker 1: and then bow hunting at the extreme level of it.
• 1:39:51
  Speaker 1: I think there's two different extreme levels of archery. There's
• 1:39:53
  Speaker 1: target archery, which I think is extreme mentally, but it's
• 1:39:56
  Speaker 1: still a stable static shot, a static target, versus bow hunting,
• 1:40:01
  Speaker 1: which is non-static, moving, enormous animals, and all their senses
• 1:40:05
  Speaker 1: and all the different things that are involved, wind, all
• 1:40:07
  Speaker 1: the factors, elevation, changes. There's a lot of stuff going on.
• 1:40:12
  Speaker 1: They're moving. There's a lot of things happening that you
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 1: never can master it. There's no mastery. You can get
• 1:40:19
  Speaker 1: more effective than you used to be.
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 6: And there's different ways to do it. I'm a very
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 6: analytically mind bow hunter. I like breaking everything down, understanding
• 1:40:29
  Speaker 6: the thermals, rise and fall of the sun, first light,
• 1:40:32
  Speaker 6: last light. What are these thermals going to do on
• 1:40:34
  Speaker 6: this hill? Where's this buck coming from? Where's the doe bedding?
• 1:40:36
  Speaker 6: Where are the scrapes outside of that doe bedding? How
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 6: do I get downwind of them? How do I avoid
• 1:40:40
  Speaker 6: the parking lots? How do I do all of these things?
• 1:40:42
  Speaker 6: Then I've got this other buddy, his name is Johnny Stewart,
• 1:40:45
  Speaker 6: who is just a deer. Like I'll go scouting with him.
• 1:40:48
  Speaker 6: This guy kills two or three big bucks every year.
• 1:40:51
  Speaker 6: And you would think this guy must have like a system.
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 6: And he's just like, this feels like a place where
• 1:40:57
  Speaker 6: there are deer. I was like, well, John, what are
• 1:40:59
  Speaker 6: you talking about right now? He's like, I don't know, Bill.
• 1:41:01
  Speaker 6: But like just the way this place looks to me.
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 1: Well, it's pattern recognition too, right?
• 1:41:06
  Speaker 6: Yeah, but he's pulling it from a place where he can't.
• 1:41:09
  Speaker 6: sight to you what's going on right whereas when i
• 1:41:11
  Speaker 6: walk into a spot i'm like well i've got three
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 6: intersecting trails that come here there's you know doe bedding
• 1:41:16
  Speaker 6: over here i've got two scrapes here the thermals come
• 1:41:18
  Speaker 6: up at 8 30 so i want to be i
• 1:41:20
  Speaker 6: want to wait for the thermal switch before i get
• 1:41:21
  Speaker 6: into my stand otherwise my scent is going to paint
• 1:41:23
  Speaker 6: this side of the mountain and he's just like this
• 1:41:26
  Speaker 6: looks good.
• 1:41:28
  Speaker 1: It's interesting that there's there's people that are system oriented
• 1:41:32
  Speaker 1: and then there's other people that are instinctive yeah that
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 1: that's a a big factor in striking So in striking,
• 1:41:39
  Speaker 1: one of the things that I find interesting is some
• 1:41:41
  Speaker 1: people who are great strikers, and by strikers I'm talking
• 1:41:44
  Speaker 1: about martial arts. Some people have a system and they're
• 1:41:48
  Speaker 1: really good at showing their system and teaching their system.
• 1:41:53
  Speaker 1: And other people can't quite tell you what they're doing. Right.
• 1:41:56
  Speaker 1: They just know how to do it. They know how
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 1: to do something at varying speeds in order to fuck
• 1:42:03
  Speaker 1: with someone's perceptions, their timing and reads.
• 1:42:06
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 1:42:06
  Speaker 1: And they just do it instinctively. And it's just they've
• 1:42:10
  Speaker 1: done it so many times. They just know what they're doing,
• 1:42:13
  Speaker 1: but they can't teach it. Yeah.
• 1:42:15
  Speaker 6: Yeah. It's so strange, especially when you talk to people
• 1:42:19
  Speaker 6: who are at that very high level. Like I think
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 6: you know, but I've become pretty good friends with George St. Pierre.
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 6: And him and I bear hunted last year together, and
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 6: I spent basically a week with him. And I didn't
• 1:42:31
  Speaker 6: do jujitsu. I did mixed martial arts in the military.
• 1:42:35
  Speaker 6: Or I did combatives, we called it, in the military
• 1:42:37
  Speaker 6: for like seven, eight years. So it was a little different.
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 6: Like you would learn the basics, but then it would
• 1:42:41
  Speaker 6: get into, all right, now that you've got him in
• 1:42:43
  Speaker 6: this position, you can stab him. Or now that you're
• 1:42:45
  Speaker 6: in this position, you can break contact. Or like, so
• 1:42:48
  Speaker 6: there was a combat nexus to it that wasn't strictly jujitsu.
• 1:42:52
  Speaker 6: There was more to it. And, but like talking to
• 1:42:56
  Speaker 6: him and then just like messing around or seeing like
• 1:42:59
  Speaker 6: how he applies pressure or what he's doing or how
• 1:43:02
  Speaker 6: he's a great wrestler and how he integrates these other things.
• 1:43:05
  Speaker 6: It's just, When you deal with these people, or like
• 1:43:08
  Speaker 6: with Gordon, it's like you're at a level that's just,
• 1:43:11
  Speaker 6: I couldn't ever get there even if I hoped to.
• 1:43:14
  Speaker 6: And even if you could explain to me what's, like,
• 1:43:17
  Speaker 6: in other words, Gordon could pin me in a position
• 1:43:19
  Speaker 6: and say, here's what you got to do. I still
• 1:43:20
  Speaker 6: can't do it.
• 1:43:21
  Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying?
• 1:43:23
  Speaker 6: To him. To him. And so they're just at such
• 1:43:26
  Speaker 6: a level that even if they are able to articulate
• 1:43:28
  Speaker 6: it to you, you're still not getting there because you
• 1:43:30
  Speaker 6: don't have everything that it takes to bridge the gap
• 1:43:32
  Speaker 6: from here to there.
• 1:43:33
  Speaker 1: Well, Gordon's very systematic. You know, and it comes from
• 1:43:37
  Speaker 1: his teaching under Donaher. Like Donaher, John Donaher, who's I
• 1:43:42
  Speaker 1: think the great mastermind of jujitsu. He has a very
• 1:43:46
  Speaker 1: specific systems and he breaks things down. Like they're very
• 1:43:49
  Speaker 1: technique oriented. And then there's, there's things that you just
• 1:43:53
  Speaker 1: learn from over the course of training. There's the flow
• 1:43:57
  Speaker 1: of it all that you learn from it. But Gordon
• 1:44:00
  Speaker 1: is like a great example of someone who's an amazing teacher.
• 1:44:02
  Speaker 1: As well as an amazing jujitsu competitor because like his
• 1:44:08
  Speaker 1: big part of his income comes from his instructionals, selling instructionals.
• 1:44:13
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 1:44:13
  Speaker 1: Because they're so good.
• 1:44:14
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:44:15
  Speaker 6: I mean, the thing that's interesting to me about Donaher
• 1:44:19
  Speaker 6: is like he's almost like a first principles jujitsu guy.
• 1:44:22
  Speaker 6: Like when you hear him talk, like he breaks things
• 1:44:24
  Speaker 6: down to like very elemental levels where it's like, what
• 1:44:27
  Speaker 6: is the point of jujitsu? What are you doing with jujitsu?
• 1:44:30
  Speaker 6: What are you trying to establish?
• 1:44:31
  Speaker 1: And it's like.
• 1:44:32
  Speaker 6: Right. I'm not even thinking about these things, but he's like,
• 1:44:34
  Speaker 6: because I think his background is in philosophy, right? Or
• 1:44:36
  Speaker 6: something like that.
• 1:44:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Columbia.
• 1:44:38
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 1:44:39
  Speaker 1: He was a professor.
• 1:44:41
  Speaker 6: That's crazy. That transition to me.
• 1:44:43
  Speaker 1: Or at least, was he a professor? Definitely he was
• 1:44:46
  Speaker 1: a PhD, I believe. And then started doing jujitsu because
• 1:44:50
  Speaker 1: he was a bouncer and wanted to learn how to fight.
• 1:44:54
  Speaker 1: So I probably should learn how to fight because he
• 1:44:55
  Speaker 1: was a power lifter at one point in time and
• 1:44:57
  Speaker 1: a rugby player also. And then became obsessed. And, you know.
• 1:45:02
  Speaker 1: became the greatest coach of all time. And he's like
• 1:45:05
  Speaker 1: a character from a film.
• 1:45:06
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:45:06
  Speaker 1: Really, it doesn't exist in real life because he's a
• 1:45:09
  Speaker 1: guy who wears a rash guard every day. Everywhere he goes.
• 1:45:11
  Speaker 6: I saw pictures of him at a wedding. You just
• 1:45:14
  Speaker 6: took the words out of his mouth.
• 1:45:15
  Speaker 1: I mean, but he's a real eccentric. It's not like
• 1:45:17
  Speaker 1: he's trying to be eccentric.
• 1:45:19
  Speaker 6: It's like he's either this or he's a bad guy
• 1:45:21
  Speaker 6: in a Bond movie.
• 1:45:22
  Speaker 1: Okay. So he's a sixth degree black belt, arrived in
• 1:45:25
  Speaker 1: the United States in 91 to study at Columbia University's
• 1:45:27
  Speaker 1: philosophy PhD program. After arriving in New York, Donner was
• 1:45:31
  Speaker 1: introduced to Brazilian jiu-jitsu, continued training at the academy, became
• 1:45:35
  Speaker 1: teaching classes as well while Henzo Gracie was traveling for competition.
• 1:45:41
  Speaker 1: So did he finish his education and did he start teaching?
• 1:45:44
  Speaker 3: He had a master's degree in philosophy and was pursuing a.
• 1:45:48
  Speaker 1: PhD in epistemology. And so that's when he became obsessed.
• 1:45:53
  Speaker 1: And so while he was attending the university, He worked
• 1:45:55
  Speaker 1: as a bouncer in various Manhattan nightclubs. So I've elevated
• 1:45:58
  Speaker 1: his education, but a little bit.
• 1:46:00
  Speaker 6: That's insane.
• 1:46:00
  Speaker 1: I thought he was teaching. But he, when he started
• 1:46:03
  Speaker 1: teaching jujitsu, he was like sleeping on the mats. Like he's,
• 1:46:07
  Speaker 1: he was there all day long, every day.
• 1:46:08
  Speaker 6: Another addictive personality.
• 1:46:10
  Speaker 1: Not just that, but a man who is obsessed with,
• 1:46:13
  Speaker 1: do you know the Japanese term kaizen?
• 1:46:16
  Speaker 6: I've heard you talk about it.
• 1:46:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Kaizen is you continue to improve on one thing. Constantly,
• 1:46:24
  Speaker 1: where it's this never-ending cycle of improvement. And this is
• 1:46:28
  Speaker 1: a philosophy that applies to jiu-jitsu. This is a continual
• 1:46:32
  Speaker 1: cycle of improvement. You know, there's certain applications that people
• 1:46:37
  Speaker 1: have seen, like the application of Kaizen in engineering, for example.
• 1:46:42
  Speaker 1: Like a good example is like they take a specific
• 1:46:45
  Speaker 1: platform and continue to work on it. Like a good
• 1:46:48
  Speaker 1: example is the Nissan GT-R. Are you aware of the
• 1:46:51
  Speaker 1: Nissan GT-R?
• 1:46:52
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:46:52
  Speaker 1: Okay. So Nissan GT-R is one of the best examples
• 1:46:55
  Speaker 1: of that where it is essentially the same car for
• 1:46:58
  Speaker 1: 20 plus years. And they don't change the body shape.
• 1:47:02
  Speaker 1: They don't change the geometry. They don't change the way
• 1:47:05
  Speaker 1: it's all-wheel drive sports car. But what they do is
• 1:47:09
  Speaker 1: continue to refine it to the point where it was
• 1:47:12
  Speaker 1: just fucking dialed in.
• 1:47:14
  Speaker 6: Tweaking it.
• 1:47:15
  Speaker 1: Just constantly improving it and just dialing it in. Dialing
• 1:47:19
  Speaker 1: it in further, further, further, further, further. And if you
• 1:47:22
  Speaker 1: get like a 2025, I think it was 2025 or
• 1:47:25
  Speaker 1: 2026 was the last year they made the GTR. And
• 1:47:28
  Speaker 1: you compare it to like a one that was released
• 1:47:31
  Speaker 1: in the 19, God, when was the first GTR? Was
• 1:47:35
  Speaker 1: it 2000s? Was it?
• 1:47:37
  Speaker 6: I think it was late 90s, I thought, but maybe
• 1:47:40
  Speaker 6: early 2000s.
• 1:47:41
  Speaker 1: It might be early 2000s. I think it's in the 2000s,
• 1:47:43
  Speaker 1: but it almost looks the same, but there's so much better.
• 1:47:47
  Speaker 1: And that's, that's, the same with everything. I mean, Kaizen
• 1:47:52
  Speaker 1: as applied to mixed martial arts as a whole, like
• 1:47:55
  Speaker 1: if you looked at mixed martial arts as a whole,
• 1:47:57
  Speaker 1: all of these individuals that are competing in it and
• 1:48:00
  Speaker 1: all these individuals that are pursuing it and teaching it
• 1:48:02
  Speaker 1: and studying it, they're essentially doing that. They're taking this
• 1:48:07
  Speaker 1: thing that used to be this chaotic thing where, you know,
• 1:48:12
  Speaker 1: there was certain strategies that people had, You know, one
• 1:48:15
  Speaker 1: guy was a brawler, the other guy was a grappler.
• 1:48:18
  Speaker 1: get you down on the ground, punch you in the
• 1:48:19
  Speaker 1: face a bunch of times. And then they're expanding the
• 1:48:23
  Speaker 1: possibilities to this like insane level where you're seeing people
• 1:48:27
  Speaker 1: now that are like on the Dana White contender series
• 1:48:30
  Speaker 1: that would be absolute world champions in 1994.
• 1:48:34
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 1:48:35
  Speaker 1: And these guys haven't even entered the UFC yet. Right.
• 1:48:38
  Speaker 1: Because the level of the game through this constant pursuit
• 1:48:41
  Speaker 1: of excellence and then this competition, this boiling pot of
• 1:48:45
  Speaker 1: competition where you have, I mean, how many MMA athletes
• 1:48:49
  Speaker 1: are there worldwide now? Who knows? It's got to be
• 1:48:52
  Speaker 1: in the hundreds of thousands of elite MMA athletes. When
• 1:48:56
  Speaker 1: I say elite, I mean like guys who can fight professionally.
• 1:49:00
  Speaker 1: I would say there's probably, I mean, they might not
• 1:49:02
  Speaker 1: all be fighting professionally yet, but they're at that level.
• 1:49:05
  Speaker 1: When you introduce amateurs and you think about how many
• 1:49:09
  Speaker 1: thousands and thousands and thousands of gyms there are, and
• 1:49:12
  Speaker 1: out of those gyms, how many people have people that
• 1:49:15
  Speaker 1: are at a very high level? Fuck, it's crazy. So
• 1:49:19
  Speaker 1: this is a new thing. I say this all the time,
• 1:49:22
  Speaker 1: but it really is accurate. Martial arts have evolved more
• 1:49:26
  Speaker 1: in the last 33 years than they have in the
• 1:49:29
  Speaker 1: last 33,000 years. And that is true. Because from the
• 1:49:32
  Speaker 1: time the UFC came about, In 1993, I mean, the
• 1:49:36
  Speaker 1: Brazilians were way ahead. The Brazilians were way, the Gracie
• 1:49:40
  Speaker 1: family in particular, were way ahead of the curve. They
• 1:49:43
  Speaker 1: were pursuing this and looking into this in the 1940s
• 1:49:47
  Speaker 1: and 50s. Like, Elio Gracie was having mixed martial arts
• 1:49:50
  Speaker 1: competitions in the 1940s. You know, they were having, they
• 1:49:54
  Speaker 1: called it valetudo. It was anything goes. And they were
• 1:49:57
  Speaker 1: having fights in the ring in front of large groups
• 1:49:59
  Speaker 1: of people long before the UFC was ever around. Hicks
• 1:50:03
  Speaker 1: and Gracie famously had them when he was 18 years
• 1:50:06
  Speaker 1: old when he became the champion of the family. I
• 1:50:08
  Speaker 1: mean he was defeating much larger people when he was 18. Yeah.
• 1:50:13
  Speaker 6: I remember watching that back in the day too, like
• 1:50:15
  Speaker 6: peak UFC. Not peak, but it's big now. I still
• 1:50:18
  Speaker 6: go to it now. But watching like GSP in his
• 1:50:20
  Speaker 6: heyday back in the day and stuff like that is
• 1:50:22
  Speaker 6: just– Well.
• 1:50:23
  Speaker 1: That was peak emergence.
• 1:50:24
  Speaker 6: Peak emergence.
• 1:50:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, peak emergence was like 2005 on. So 2005 was
• 1:50:27
  Speaker 1: the ultimate fighter. And it's very rare when one moment
• 1:50:34
  Speaker 1: really sort of defines the growth of a sport, but
• 1:50:36
  Speaker 1: you can find that in MMA. And in that one
• 1:50:39
  Speaker 1: moment was the Stefan Bonner-Forest Griffin fight in the finals
• 1:50:44
  Speaker 1: of The Ultimate Fighter on Spike TV. It got millions
• 1:50:47
  Speaker 1: and millions of people watching it, like more than anything
• 1:50:49
  Speaker 1: anybody had ever watched on Spike TV before. And it
• 1:50:52
  Speaker 1: was just because it was so good. It was so crazy.
• 1:50:54
  Speaker 1: And you see the rise of people watching it. They
• 1:50:57
  Speaker 1: could track the ratings in real time. So people were
• 1:51:00
  Speaker 1: calling their friends going, dude, you got to fucking watch this.
• 1:51:03
  Speaker 1: Turn on Spike TV. This is crazy. And they were
• 1:51:06
  Speaker 1: watching it and it changed the entire course of martial
• 1:51:11
  Speaker 1: arts forever. That one fight.
• 1:51:14
  Speaker 6: Yeah. I mean, for me, my watershed moment was like
• 1:51:17
  Speaker 6: GSP bisping, like watching when GSP went up a weight class.
• 1:51:24
  Speaker 6: And what year was that?
• 1:51:25
  Speaker 1: Um, 2017 or somewhere around there. Yeah. Went up to middleweight.
• 1:51:31
  Speaker 6: But for me, it was just like, okay, now I'm obsessed.
• 1:51:33
  Speaker 6: Cause this guy's just done. So like, I thought I
• 1:51:36
  Speaker 6: love GSP. I know him, but I didn't think I
• 1:51:38
  Speaker 6: didn't know him at the time. I just thought, I
• 1:51:40
  Speaker 6: don't know, this is going to be tough. Um, and
• 1:51:42
  Speaker 6: just to watch somebody go up another weight class and
• 1:51:45
  Speaker 6: go and win in this, like, I just, it was amazing.
• 1:51:49
  Speaker 1: It was by the way, GSP is not even a
• 1:51:50
  Speaker 1: big welterweight. You know, GSP, when you look at welterweights today,
• 1:51:54
  Speaker 1: GSP is the size of a large middleweight or, excuse me,
• 1:51:57
  Speaker 1: a large lightweight today. A large 155-pounder today.
• 1:52:01
  Speaker 6: I think he walks around like 160 right now or
• 1:52:02
  Speaker 6: something like that.
• 1:52:03
  Speaker 1: Well, that's light. I think he's heavier than that.
• 1:52:05
  Speaker 6: Is he?
• 1:52:06
  Speaker 1: I think he's in the 80s. Is he? Maybe even
• 1:52:08
  Speaker 1: in the 90s. Well, it depends on how much he's
• 1:52:10
  Speaker 1: weightlifting and what he's doing.
• 1:52:12
  Speaker 6: I thought he was less.
• 1:52:13
  Speaker 1: He's definitely heavier than that. But in his prime, he
• 1:52:15
  Speaker 1: would hover around the high 190s and then cut down
• 1:52:18
  Speaker 1: to 170.
• 1:52:19
  Speaker 6: Yeah, but he was a beast in that fight, too.
• 1:52:21
  Speaker 1: He looked like such a beast. There's guys now. Like,
• 1:52:23
  Speaker 1: do you follow closely, like, top contenders now?
• 1:52:27
  Speaker 6: Not closely. Not like I should, no. Not as closely
• 1:52:29
  Speaker 6: as I should. I mean, I'll watch the big events.
• 1:52:32
  Speaker 1: There's this cat, Michael Morales. He's one of the scariest
• 1:52:34
  Speaker 1: guys in the 170-pound division. He's a fucking monster. Like,
• 1:52:38
  Speaker 1: a really, really dangerous guy. And he's enormous. Yeah. He
• 1:52:42
  Speaker 1: gets well over 220, well over 220 and gets down
• 1:52:46
  Speaker 1: to 170.
• 1:52:46
  Speaker 6: And just cuts at the last minute?
• 1:52:48
  Speaker 1: No, he cuts it slowly over time, but then he
• 1:52:51
  Speaker 1: rehydrates and reinflates. And when you see him inside the octagon,
• 1:52:54
  Speaker 1: you're like, how the fuck? And I don't know how
• 1:52:57
  Speaker 1: many times he can do that. So that is essentially
• 1:53:01
  Speaker 1: very brutal on the kidneys. It is essentially a death's
• 1:53:07
  Speaker 1: door event. You're getting to death's door. You're getting to
• 1:53:10
  Speaker 1: death's door 24 hours before you have to fight in
• 1:53:13
  Speaker 1: a cage. And then you're rehydrating yourself and replenishing yourself.
• 1:53:17
  Speaker 1: Not to 100%, by the way.
• 1:53:18
  Speaker 6: No, you can't.
• 1:53:19
  Speaker 1: You're not. There's no way. So this is how big
• 1:53:22
  Speaker 1: Morales is. He's fucking enormous, dude. And he's so powerful.
• 1:53:26
  Speaker 1: He's absolutely huge for the weight class. When you see him,
• 1:53:30
  Speaker 1: he looks like a light heavyweight. He really does. Because
• 1:53:32
  Speaker 1: he is. I mean, he's basically like 220 pounds now.
• 1:53:35
  Speaker 1: He looks like a big middleweight when he's in there.
• 1:53:37
  Speaker 1: But yet, Somehow or another, he makes it to 170.
• 1:53:40
  Speaker 1: And he's undefeated and not just undefeated in the UFC.
• 1:53:43
  Speaker 1: He's starching people. And he's a wrestler who very rarely wrestles.
• 1:53:49
  Speaker 1: And he has a judo background, very rarely uses that.
• 1:53:52
  Speaker 6: It's kind of like Gaethje, right?
• 1:53:54
  Speaker 1: Gaethje, Justin Gaethje.
• 1:53:55
  Speaker 6: Yeah, he does.
• 1:53:56
  Speaker 1: In a way. But this guy is much bigger and
• 1:53:59
  Speaker 1: just a real seek and destroy guy. welterweight and one
• 1:54:02
  Speaker 1: of the absolute top contenders. Terrifying human.
• 1:54:05
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I just meant that Gaetje was a really good
• 1:54:08
  Speaker 6: wrestler and you hardly ever see him wrestling.
• 1:54:11
  Speaker 1: Right, right. Well, it takes a lot of energy to
• 1:54:13
  Speaker 1: wrestle people. That's part of the problem. In order to
• 1:54:15
  Speaker 1: grapple and constantly shoot and taking people down, it's one
• 1:54:18
  Speaker 1: of the most energy intensive aspects of MMA. Like shooting
• 1:54:22
  Speaker 1: on someone, you're exploding.
• 1:54:23
  Speaker 6: A lot of energy.
• 1:54:24
  Speaker 1: And then you're wrestling with them. So you're grappling with
• 1:54:28
  Speaker 1: all their strength, using technique and leverage, and then you
• 1:54:31
  Speaker 1: have to hoist their body up in the air and
• 1:54:33
  Speaker 1: slam them to the ground.
• 1:54:34
  Speaker 6: And get that takedown.
• 1:54:35
  Speaker 1: And you can only do that so many times, which
• 1:54:37
  Speaker 1: is one of the reasons why Merab is so fucking extraordinary,
• 1:54:41
  Speaker 1: is the fact that that guy can do that full
• 1:54:43
  Speaker 1: blast for five rounds. It's insane. His cardio should be
• 1:54:49
  Speaker 1: studied in a fucking laboratory because he's a real freak.
• 1:54:53
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:54:53
  Speaker 1: He's a real freak.
• 1:54:54
  Speaker 6: I bet.
• 1:54:54
  Speaker 1: But very few people have that ability. He breaks world-class fighters. Like,
• 1:54:59
  Speaker 1: you know, Umar Nurmagomedov, like, when he fought him, like,
• 1:55:03
  Speaker 1: he almost couldn't believe this guy was still doing this, like,
• 1:55:07
  Speaker 1: deep into the fifth round. Like, it was just so crazy,
• 1:55:11
  Speaker 1: his work output. And most people don't have that. So
• 1:55:14
  Speaker 1: most people, when they're really good grapplers, they develop a
• 1:55:17
  Speaker 1: style that's like a mix of grappling and striking because
• 1:55:20
  Speaker 1: there's time. Even Khabib, like, one of the rounds with
• 1:55:24
  Speaker 1: Conor McGregor, he never shot for a takedown.
• 1:55:25
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:55:26
  Speaker 1: It's the round that Conor won. And it's because he
• 1:55:29
  Speaker 1: just chose to stand because he had to, like, realize, like, okay,
• 1:55:32
  Speaker 1: I burned so much energy in the first couple rounds
• 1:55:35
  Speaker 1: going after this guy, taking him down, smashing him. I
• 1:55:38
  Speaker 1: can't keep this up. I have to take a round
• 1:55:41
  Speaker 1: where I don't burn off as much energy and let
• 1:55:43
  Speaker 1: my body recover a bit.
• 1:55:45
  Speaker 6: Yeah, the White House fight, I watched that from my
• 1:55:47
  Speaker 6: cabin out in North Dakota. So I was alone. I've
• 1:55:51
  Speaker 6: shown you pictures, the cabin out in the middle of nowhere.
• 1:55:54
  Speaker 6: It was my father's cabin. that I bought back in
• 1:55:57
  Speaker 6: the family like four years ago, rebuilt it from the
• 1:56:00
  Speaker 6: ground up. And I was like, I'm in the perfect
• 1:56:02
  Speaker 6: place to watch this fight. I was so hyped up,
• 1:56:05
  Speaker 6: like watching the whole thing. Like my son was coming downstairs.
• 1:56:08
  Speaker 6: I was like, not now, I'm watching the fight. Like
• 1:56:09
  Speaker 6: leave me alone, I'm watching the fight. I was cheering.
• 1:56:11
  Speaker 1: It was crazy.
• 1:56:12
  Speaker 6: I just remember watching Ilya talk. I think he was
• 1:56:15
  Speaker 6: on your podcast, wasn't he? Saying he was just going
• 1:56:17
  Speaker 6: to decimate Gaethje.
• 1:56:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And that was- Well, he thought it was going
• 1:56:21
  Speaker 1: to be easy. And I said, man, I don't know
• 1:56:24
  Speaker 1: how you could think it. And a lot of people
• 1:56:26
  Speaker 1: were saying to me, like when I was saying Justin
• 1:56:28
  Speaker 1: has a huge chance, and they would go, oh, you're
• 1:56:30
  Speaker 1: hyping this fight up. I know what you do. Like
• 1:56:32
  Speaker 1: Ari Shafir accused me of that. He's like, oh, I
• 1:56:34
  Speaker 1: know what you're doing. The guy who's going to lose,
• 1:56:36
  Speaker 1: you're saying he has a chance. I go, no, he
• 1:56:38
  Speaker 1: has a real fucking chance. He's insanely durable. He's extremely
• 1:56:41
  Speaker 1: experienced in very high-level competition against world-class fighters. And he's
• 1:56:46
  Speaker 1: been in the deep trenches where you're in hell. Like
• 1:56:51
  Speaker 1: if you're in a war– like the wars that he had,
• 1:56:53
  Speaker 1: like with Dustin Poirier, he had a war, he had
• 1:56:55
  Speaker 1: that war with Max Holloway. He's been in those trench
• 1:56:59
  Speaker 1: wars where it's four and five rounds. You've been beaten
• 1:57:03
  Speaker 1: up for fucking three rounds. Your body's broken and you're exhausted.
• 1:57:07
  Speaker 1: And yet you have to persevere and press on.
• 1:57:09
  Speaker 6: He's a freak of nature.
• 1:57:10
  Speaker 1: He's amazing.
• 1:57:11
  Speaker 6: So Tyler from archery country, uh, is good friend of mine.
• 1:57:15
  Speaker 6: We were in Vegas for the Patty fight with Gaetje, um,
• 1:57:19
  Speaker 6: that you were gracious enough to invite me to. And, um,
• 1:57:22
  Speaker 6: we were, I don't gamble. And, but we were leaving
• 1:57:26
  Speaker 6: a casino. We were there for some reason. And I
• 1:57:29
  Speaker 6: think I had like a hundred bucks in my pocket.
• 1:57:31
  Speaker 6: So Tyler and I were like, we're going to go
• 1:57:33
  Speaker 6: back or go, we're going to go to the fight.
• 1:57:35
  Speaker 6: I think actually we were going to the fight. So
• 1:57:38
  Speaker 6: I sat down at like a three card poker table
• 1:57:39
  Speaker 6: and I was like, it's an easy game. Let's just play.
• 1:57:41
  Speaker 6: Like I got a hundred bucks. Let's just do this.
• 1:57:43
  Speaker 6: So I ended up getting up to like a thousand
• 1:57:45
  Speaker 6: dollars at this three card poker table with Tyler. So
• 1:57:49
  Speaker 6: I was like, dude, like, let's just leave. Like, we've
• 1:57:51
  Speaker 6: got the money. Like, let's just get out of here.
• 1:57:53
  Speaker 6: So we're walking out of the casino and he says, Hey,
• 1:57:56
  Speaker 6: why don't we put money on the, um, Gaethje fight
• 1:57:58
  Speaker 6: tonight against Pimblitt? And I was like, okay. So I
• 1:58:01
  Speaker 6: had to like download an app and we went to
• 1:58:03
  Speaker 6: the thing and like place the bet at the place.
• 1:58:06
  Speaker 6: And we both were like, we got to bet on Justin. Like,
• 1:58:08
  Speaker 6: it's got to go this way. It's like, you know, cause,
• 1:58:11
  Speaker 6: and he was the underdog.
• 1:58:12
  Speaker 1: He was?
• 1:58:13
  Speaker 6: Yeah. He was the underdog for sure. Cause I got paid.
• 1:58:15
  Speaker 6: I put down 500 or something like that.
• 1:58:18
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 1:58:19
  Speaker 6: That's crazy. Can you certify that? But I'm 99% sure
• 1:58:21
  Speaker 6: because I got a big payday on it. I made like,
• 1:58:24
  Speaker 6: I think I got 2000 bucks. Or maybe $ 1, 500 or
• 1:58:28
  Speaker 6: something like that.
• 1:58:29
  Speaker 1: I do not know why he would be the underdog.
• 1:58:31
  Speaker 6: Yeah, there it is.
• 1:58:31
  Speaker 1: Paddy Pimble is a favorite and Justin Gaethje is the underdog. Wow.
• 1:58:35
  Speaker 1: Minus $ 238. That's crazy.
• 1:58:38
  Speaker 6: So we put that $ 500 apiece that I won playing
• 1:58:42
  Speaker 6: three-card poker on Justin.
• 1:58:46
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 1:58:46
  Speaker 6: And then we got paid. It was in my DraftKings
• 1:58:49
  Speaker 6: account or whatever, wherever the money got deposited. I didn't
• 1:58:52
  Speaker 6: even know how to get to the money. I just
• 1:58:54
  Speaker 6: had $ 1, 500 there. So at the White House fight, I
• 1:58:57
  Speaker 6: called Tyler that night, that day of, and I said, dude,
• 1:59:00
  Speaker 6: I'm just going to put all of this money back
• 1:59:01
  Speaker 6: on Justin again. And he's like, oh, I already took
• 1:59:04
  Speaker 6: my money out. I should have done that. And I
• 1:59:05
  Speaker 6: was like, I mean, it was $ 100. And now it's $ 1, 500.
• 1:59:09
  Speaker 6: So I put it all on the money. And he
• 1:59:11
  Speaker 6: was the underdog again for the Ilya fight.
• 1:59:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:59:14
  Speaker 6: So it ended up being like $ 6, 000. Wow. That I
• 1:59:17
  Speaker 6: turned from $ 100 into like $ 6, 000. And then I took
• 1:59:20
  Speaker 6: it out and used it to rebuild my house. So, Justin,
• 1:59:23
  Speaker 6: I owe Justin my upstairs. I paid for all the
• 1:59:27
  Speaker 6: flooring upstairs from Justin's fists.
• 1:59:30
  Speaker 1: That's a good way to gamble. Yeah, that's good healthy gambling.
• 1:59:34
  Speaker 6: Never do it again, but it was awesome. I mean,
• 1:59:37
  Speaker 6: I had one run.
• 1:59:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm very conflicted about gambling because I've met a
• 1:59:41
  Speaker 1: lot of gambling addicts. I know a lot of– because
• 1:59:43
  Speaker 1: I come from the pool world, you know, and the
• 1:59:46
  Speaker 1: pool world was filled with gambling addicts. That was my
• 1:59:48
  Speaker 1: first real exposure. To people that are addicted. They would
• 1:59:51
  Speaker 1: go to off-track betting before they ever got to the
• 1:59:53
  Speaker 1: pool hall. And then they'd show up at the pool
• 1:59:55
  Speaker 1: hall during the day. They'd have stories. The fucking horse.
• 1:59:58
  Speaker 1: I bet on this horse. He didn't come in. They
• 2:00:00
  Speaker 1: were all addicts. And then they would all be looking
• 2:00:02
  Speaker 1: for action. Oh, my God. They'd play gin. There was
• 2:00:05
  Speaker 1: guys that would play gin or they'd play poker. There
• 2:00:09
  Speaker 1: was like a whole elevated level where it was like
• 2:00:11
  Speaker 1: seating and stuff where it was like above the pool
• 2:00:13
  Speaker 1: tables where guys would hang out and have card games.
• 2:00:16
  Speaker 1: And then they would gamble on pool games and everybody
• 2:00:18
  Speaker 1: was just in action. It was in, everyone was in action.
• 2:00:22
  Speaker 1: And part of me is like, oh, you know, gambling
• 2:00:24
  Speaker 1: can be destructive.
• 2:00:25
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 2:00:26
  Speaker 1: But it wasn't for me. So why is that? So
• 2:00:29
  Speaker 1: isn't it like, isn't it a personal control thing? Like,
• 2:00:34
  Speaker 1: isn't it like recognizing what's detrimental to you and what's positive?
• 2:00:38
  Speaker 1: Isn't that a bunch of aspects of life? Like I'm
• 2:00:41
  Speaker 1: pro alcohol too. But I recognize that people could become alcoholics.
• 2:00:45
  Speaker 1: But isn't that also like a personal control thing?
• 2:00:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:00:48
  Speaker 1: Like shouldn't you know what you can do and what
• 2:00:52
  Speaker 1: you can't do and isn't the real thing learning how
• 2:00:55
  Speaker 1: to control yourself? I mean so I don't have any
• 2:00:58
  Speaker 1: problem with gambling at all. And I know way too
• 2:01:00
  Speaker 1: many people who enjoy it to ever like come out
• 2:01:03
  Speaker 1: against gambling. But yet I have friends that are staunchly anti-gambling.
• 2:01:07
  Speaker 1: And they think that these gambling apps are terrible and
• 2:01:10
  Speaker 1: think these casinos are terrible and that we should outlaw
• 2:01:13
  Speaker 1: all of it. And I'm like, man.
• 2:01:15
  Speaker 6: You just shove it underground.
• 2:01:16
  Speaker 1: It's also people have enjoyed that since the beginning of time.
• 2:01:20
  Speaker 1: And then also coming from the world that I come from,
• 2:01:22
  Speaker 1: coming from the pool world, gambling is a huge part
• 2:01:25
  Speaker 1: of how you get good at pool. One of the
• 2:01:27
  Speaker 1: things about pool is stakes. Like, you know the term pool?
• 2:01:31
  Speaker 1: It comes from pooling money together to gamble?
• 2:01:34
  Speaker 6: No, I did not know that.
• 2:01:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not called pool. It's called pocket billiards. So
• 2:01:38
  Speaker 1: the original billiards game, well, there's a game that is
• 2:01:42
  Speaker 1: also still played in a lot of Latin American countries.
• 2:01:45
  Speaker 1: South Korea, they're really big on it, and it's called
• 2:01:47
  Speaker 1: three cushion billiards. And three cushion billiards is a game
• 2:01:50
  Speaker 1: that you play on a table that doesn't have any pockets.
• 2:01:53
  Speaker 1: And what it is is you have three balls, and
• 2:01:56
  Speaker 1: the key is understanding... Geometry and force and spin and
• 2:02:02
  Speaker 1: how it affects the rails. So the rails are all
• 2:02:05
  Speaker 1: these rubber rails. And in three cushion billiards, you contact
• 2:02:09
  Speaker 1: one ball and then you have to go three cushions,
• 2:02:14
  Speaker 1: contact the second ball, and then the original ball. So
• 2:02:18
  Speaker 1: you're contacting these three balls but also hitting three cushions. Huh. Yeah.
• 2:02:25
  Speaker 1: Or two balls but also hitting three cushions. hitting three cushions.
• 2:02:29
  Speaker 1: So you can't just hit one ball into another ball.
• 2:02:31
  Speaker 1: There's a, there's a, there is an old billiard game
• 2:02:34
  Speaker 1: where they did that, but it was a very boring game.
• 2:02:36
  Speaker 1: But this three cushion game is a much more dynamic
• 2:02:38
  Speaker 1: form of it. So that's billiards. And then there's pocket billiards.
• 2:02:43
  Speaker 1: So pocket billiards is what people think of as pool
• 2:02:46
  Speaker 1: is where you're shooting a ball into a hole and
• 2:02:48
  Speaker 1: there's six holes on the table. So pool comes from
• 2:02:52
  Speaker 1: the term of pooling money together to gamble on pocket billiards.
• 2:02:56
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 2:02:56
  Speaker 1: So when you go to a pool hall, that's a
• 2:02:58
  Speaker 1: gambling hall. That's what they were. And so in New
• 2:03:02
  Speaker 1: York City at the turn of the century, the turn
• 2:03:04
  Speaker 1: of the 20th century, I think there was some insane
• 2:03:08
  Speaker 1: number of pool halls just in New York City. I
• 2:03:11
  Speaker 1: think it was over a thousand. Wow.
• 2:03:13
  Speaker 6: Yep.
• 2:03:14
  Speaker 1: And it was a lot of these guys, especially in
• 2:03:16
  Speaker 1: the 1940s and guys coming home from the war. They
• 2:03:21
  Speaker 1: didn't have families and it was a bachelor culture. And
• 2:03:23
  Speaker 1: these guys, they didn't want to be a part of
• 2:03:25
  Speaker 1: society anymore. They just wanted to, you know, unplug and
• 2:03:31
  Speaker 1: be a part of this world of men where men
• 2:03:33
  Speaker 1: got together and they gambled and they smoked and they
• 2:03:36
  Speaker 1: talked shit and they engaged in a lot of vice.
• 2:03:39
  Speaker 1: You know, there's, and that was also when I was
• 2:03:42
  Speaker 1: exposed to drugs, like a lot of drugs.
• 2:03:45
  Speaker 6: How old were you at this time?
• 2:03:46
  Speaker 5: 23.
• 2:03:46
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 2:03:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah. About 23, maybe 24 when I really started playing
• 2:03:52
  Speaker 1: a lot. And a lot of these guys, that was
• 2:03:55
  Speaker 1: the first time I ever saw anybody do heroin. Yeah.
• 2:03:59
  Speaker 1: It was a guy who was a world-class pool player.
• 2:04:03
  Speaker 1: He had two nicknames. One of them was Buffalo Bill
• 2:04:05
  Speaker 1: and the other one was Water Dog. And this guy,
• 2:04:08
  Speaker 1: he was a world-class pool player who was also a
• 2:04:11
  Speaker 1: heroin addict. And what he would do is he would
• 2:04:13
  Speaker 1: go into the bathroom. And everybody knew what was going on.
• 2:04:16
  Speaker 1: He would go into the bathroom, lock the door, shoot up.
• 2:04:18
  Speaker 1: And then he'd come out, and he would sit on
• 2:04:20
  Speaker 1: one of those billiard chairs. So he'd sit on, like,
• 2:04:22
  Speaker 1: it's like a big bar stool with, like, arms on it.
• 2:04:25
  Speaker 1: He'd sit there like this.
• 2:04:27
  Speaker 6: And just pass out.
• 2:04:28
  Speaker 1: No, just zoned out for, like, 20 minutes just high
• 2:04:31
  Speaker 1: as fucking heroin. And then come back. And then when
• 2:04:34
  Speaker 1: he's back, he was ready to play. And his eyes,
• 2:04:37
  Speaker 1: his fucking pupils were huge. That's what I remember. It
• 2:04:39
  Speaker 1: was like he had gerbil eyes, like shark eyes. And
• 2:04:42
  Speaker 1: he couldn't miss. I mean, it was insane watching him play.
• 2:04:47
  Speaker 1: There's a table in Executive Billiards in White Plains, New York,
• 2:04:50
  Speaker 1: where I used to play. Table one had these tiny
• 2:04:53
  Speaker 1: little pockets because it was the gambling table. So the
• 2:04:56
  Speaker 1: pockets were just shy of four inches. So you couldn't
• 2:05:00
  Speaker 1: fit two balls in them. And they were very gaffy,
• 2:05:03
  Speaker 1: meaning like the way the angles were cut. Like it
• 2:05:05
  Speaker 1: was like. The way it was made was kind of haphazard.
• 2:05:10
  Speaker 1: The way they wedged these things in there to make
• 2:05:12
  Speaker 1: the pockets tighter. It wasn't perfect. Like if you would
• 2:05:15
  Speaker 1: hit the point a little bit, it would bobble out.
• 2:05:17
  Speaker 1: It was very difficult to be accurate on this table.
• 2:05:21
  Speaker 1: And this fucking guy couldn't miss. And he was playing
• 2:05:24
  Speaker 1: for $ 10, 000. Holy shit.
• 2:05:27
  Speaker 6: That stresses me out.
• 2:05:28
  Speaker 1: I was watching this guy play for $ 10, 000. The guy
• 2:05:30
  Speaker 1: who was playing was this guy, George the Greek, who
• 2:05:33
  Speaker 1: was a famous gambler. And George would be yelling at him,
• 2:05:36
  Speaker 1: this motherfucker, he can't play without his shit. He's got
• 2:05:39
  Speaker 1: to take that fucking shit. So he's trying to distract
• 2:05:41
  Speaker 1: him while he's playing. And this guy just, he just
• 2:05:44
  Speaker 1: couldn't miss, just moving around the table, seeing all the angles.
• 2:05:47
  Speaker 1: It's like to him, the game was simple. And it
• 2:05:50
  Speaker 1: was just when he was on heroin and he had
• 2:05:52
  Speaker 1: to do heroin. And I ran into him years later.
• 2:05:56
  Speaker 1: So I knew him in New York and then I
• 2:05:58
  Speaker 1: moved to California. And this was like, In 95, 96,
• 2:06:02
  Speaker 1: I was playing in this tournament in Bellflower, California. There's
• 2:06:06
  Speaker 1: this legendary pool hall that used to exist there. There's
• 2:06:09
  Speaker 1: still one in Sacramento, but there's one in Bellflower that
• 2:06:12
  Speaker 1: was called Hard Times. And Hard Times was the mecca.
• 2:06:16
  Speaker 1: When I was playing pool in New York, everybody was
• 2:06:18
  Speaker 1: talking about Hard Times. Hard Times was where all the
• 2:06:20
  Speaker 1: gambling was. And all the great players, the Filipino players
• 2:06:23
  Speaker 1: would go there, and they had this big Sunday tournament.
• 2:06:26
  Speaker 1: And so I would go and play in the Sunday
• 2:06:27
  Speaker 1: tournament because anybody could play. I'd just get killed every week.
• 2:06:30
  Speaker 1: But I'd go anyway just to be able to play
• 2:06:32
  Speaker 1: like world-class players and to watch and just to have fun.
• 2:06:35
  Speaker 1: And Waterdog was there. And I go, hey, man, what
• 2:06:37
  Speaker 1: are you doing out here? And he's like, yeah, I
• 2:06:39
  Speaker 1: took a trip. I took a trip to California, you know,
• 2:06:42
  Speaker 1: just tried to get in some action. He goes, I
• 2:06:45
  Speaker 1: want to get in the tournament, but I don't have
• 2:06:46
  Speaker 1: any money. I go, I'll put you in. So it
• 2:06:48
  Speaker 1: was only like, I don't remember what it was, 20 bucks,
• 2:06:50
  Speaker 1: 25 bucks to get in the tournament. And so I said,
• 2:06:53
  Speaker 1: I'll put you in. He goes, oh, but I got
• 2:06:54
  Speaker 1: to go get my shit. And I was like, what?
• 2:06:57
  Speaker 1: I go, well, go get your shit. He goes, I
• 2:06:59
  Speaker 1: need a ride. I go, I'm not driving you. And
• 2:07:01
  Speaker 1: he goes, come on. He goes, you got to give
• 2:07:02
  Speaker 1: me a ride. It's fine. Don't worry. But I had
• 2:07:05
  Speaker 1: a nice car at the time. My first nice car.
• 2:07:07
  Speaker 1: I had a Toyota Supra Turbo.
• 2:07:09
  Speaker 6: Nice.
• 2:07:09
  Speaker 1: I loved it.
• 2:07:10
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 2:07:11
  Speaker 1: I was like, I can't drive. They'll confiscate my car.
• 2:07:14
  Speaker 6: I thought you were going to say Highline.
• 2:07:15
  Speaker 1: No. You can get in real trouble. And he wouldn't play.
• 2:07:21
  Speaker 1: Or he wouldn't accept that I wouldn't take him there.
• 2:07:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:07:24
  Speaker 1: I put him in anyway. He played sober, and he
• 2:07:26
  Speaker 1: played terrible. He was angry. He wasn't playing good. He
• 2:07:29
  Speaker 1: was rotten. You could tell it was a mess. The
• 2:07:34
  Speaker 1: guy could have won the tournament. He was that good.
• 2:07:36
  Speaker 6: I grew up in Canada for a few years, like
• 2:07:39
  Speaker 6: three years. And I remember reading it. I don't know
• 2:07:41
  Speaker 6: who this is, and I hope Jamie can look it
• 2:07:43
  Speaker 6: up for me, Jamie, if you don't mind. But there
• 2:07:44
  Speaker 6: was a story of a goaltender that would play on drugs.
• 2:07:48
  Speaker 6: And I want to say it was something crazy. Maybe
• 2:07:51
  Speaker 6: it was something simple like cocaine. but he would take
• 2:07:54
  Speaker 6: the drugs before a hockey match because it made the
• 2:07:57
  Speaker 6: world look slower. Oh. a better goaltender and he said
• 2:08:02
  Speaker 6: it was like the ball the puck became like catching
• 2:08:04
  Speaker 6: a beach ball or something like that grant fewer that's.
• 2:08:07
  Speaker 1: Him edmonton oilers and hockey hall of fame goaltender so
• 2:08:11
  Speaker 1: he publicly admitted to abusing cocaine for about seven years
• 2:08:15
  Speaker 1: or using it correctly and Why is he abusing? He
• 2:08:19
  Speaker 1: used it correctly. Rumors and reports circulated about cocaine use
• 2:08:22
  Speaker 1: involving several members of the powerhouse Edmonton Oilers dynasty, including
• 2:08:26
  Speaker 1: a well-known 1986 Sports Illustrated report, though fewer was the
• 2:08:30
  Speaker 1: most high-profile player to face official league discipline regarding it. Well,
• 2:08:35
  Speaker 1: probably because he admitted it.
• 2:08:37
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 2:08:37
  Speaker 6: I mean, I remember hearing him say, like.
• 2:08:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, 1990, he admitted it publicly.
• 2:08:41
  Speaker 6: Yeah, and I was a child then, so I'd have
• 2:08:43
  Speaker 6: been eight at that time. But I was living in
• 2:08:45
  Speaker 6: Canada where everything was hockey. Like you were not, it
• 2:08:48
  Speaker 6: was hockey night in Canada. It was Molson, Labatt, Blue.
• 2:08:51
  Speaker 6: And the whole, like when I moved there, I was
• 2:08:53
  Speaker 6: in second grade and I only knew football. And the
• 2:08:57
  Speaker 6: coach was like, yeah, we only play hockey here. And
• 2:08:59
  Speaker 6: I was like, I've never played hockey. He's like, well,
• 2:09:01
  Speaker 6: you do now. And I was like, well, my mom,
• 2:09:03
  Speaker 6: we're poor. We don't have any money. This is like
• 2:09:05
  Speaker 6: in a- Boilers on cocaine.
• 2:09:07
  Speaker 1: Look at that. Look at the- Hockey news. Wow.
• 2:09:11
  Speaker 6: Oh, shit. But all I did was watch hockey. They
• 2:09:15
  Speaker 6: made you. And I told them, I was like, we
• 2:09:17
  Speaker 6: can't afford hockey gear. All of the kids on the
• 2:09:19
  Speaker 6: team donated a hockey bag full of gear. The coach
• 2:09:21
  Speaker 6: brought it to my house. This was like a little
• 2:09:23
  Speaker 6: town called Plum Cooley, Manitoba, like east of Winkler. Small town,
• 2:09:26
  Speaker 6: 300 people. And they're like, you play hockey now. And
• 2:09:30
  Speaker 6: I started learning to skate and did that for like
• 2:09:32
  Speaker 6: three years. And it was just– everything was hockey. There
• 2:09:35
  Speaker 6: was no choice in it. It was– It's crazy.
• 2:09:38
  Speaker 1: It's religion up there.
• 2:09:39
  Speaker 6: It was total religion.
• 2:09:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:09:41
  Speaker 6: And it was, I remember hearing that story about that
• 2:09:44
  Speaker 6: guy and it made me think of that when you
• 2:09:46
  Speaker 6: were saying that. And that's strange. That's so strange that
• 2:09:48
  Speaker 6: people get better when they're in these altered states.
• 2:09:50
  Speaker 1: Well, Errol Helwani posted something on Twitter today that someone
• 2:09:54
  Speaker 1: sent me because it was pretty interesting. And it was
• 2:09:57
  Speaker 1: about this guy who's a goalie. See if you can
• 2:09:59
  Speaker 1: find it. He was talking about how interesting and introspective
• 2:10:03
  Speaker 1: this guy is and a fascinating thinker. And this guy's
• 2:10:07
  Speaker 1: very intelligent. I don't know his name. I don't follow hockey, unfortunately.
• 2:10:10
  Speaker 1: But he was talking about how he has to be
• 2:10:13
  Speaker 1: in an unconscious state to play a goalie. And that
• 2:10:19
  Speaker 1: when he's in his conscious state, like when he's joking
• 2:10:21
  Speaker 1: around and talking to people and laughing and having fun
• 2:10:24
  Speaker 1: with his teammates, then he's conscious and he's thinking. He's
• 2:10:26
  Speaker 1: thinking too much. So he has to achieve this unconscious
• 2:10:29
  Speaker 1: state in order to just react to be a better goalie.
• 2:10:33
  Speaker 1: But it was... See if you can find it.
• 2:10:35
  Speaker 6: Like a flow state almost.
• 2:10:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and the way he described it was really interesting
• 2:10:39
  Speaker 1: because I was like, I get that. I understand what
• 2:10:40
  Speaker 1: he's saying because you get that with everything. Like, I
• 2:10:43
  Speaker 1: cannot talk and play pool. If I talk and play pool,
• 2:10:46
  Speaker 1: I'll play like shit. Like, I'm talking to my buddies
• 2:10:49
  Speaker 1: and having fun. I get frustrated. I'm like, I got
• 2:10:50
  Speaker 1: to stop talking because if I'm talking, I can't. Like, yeah,
• 2:10:53
  Speaker 1: this is the guy. Listen to this.
• 2:10:58
  Speaker 5: About 34 saves in your night, just how you felt
• 2:11:01
  Speaker 5: and what you saw as you looked out from your crease. Yes,
• 2:11:04
  Speaker 5: I felt nothing. The problem with me is that I
• 2:11:09
  Speaker 5: have a lot of fun playing, but when I start
• 2:11:11
  Speaker 5: having too much fun, it makes me into... from an
• 2:11:15
  Speaker 5: unconscious goalie to a conscious goalie, and my conscious brain
• 2:11:18
  Speaker 5: is really bad at playing goalie. So I have to
• 2:11:21
  Speaker 5: let my unconscious brain do the work, because it reacts
• 2:11:23
  Speaker 5: a lot quicker. When I'm having too much fun and
• 2:11:25
  Speaker 5: I'm smiling and I'm talking to everybody and I'm hanging out,
• 2:11:28
  Speaker 5: what happens is that shifts me into more conscious, brain
• 2:11:31
  Speaker 5: goalie and then I can't react in time and then
• 2:11:33
  Speaker 5: I'm slow I'm behind the play and then I give
• 2:11:35
  Speaker 5: up seven goals you know but today it was just
• 2:11:38
  Speaker 5: unconscious like don't think about anything you know if you
• 2:11:41
  Speaker 5: ask me how I made a save I bet I
• 2:11:42
  Speaker 5: have no idea just my unconscious brain does it and
• 2:11:45
  Speaker 5: that's what you work in practice for you know Well,
• 2:11:47
  Speaker 5: you felt nothing during the game, but I wonder what
• 2:11:49
  Speaker 5: you felt like after when you're doing the three stars
• 2:11:51
  Speaker 5: and you hear the crowd. When the buzzer went, that's
• 2:11:54
  Speaker 5: when I was like, okay, now you can let it
• 2:11:55
  Speaker 5: all go. So you get a huge rush of like
• 2:11:58
  Speaker 5: dopamine and serotonin and adrenaline and just like goosebumps. It's
• 2:12:02
  Speaker 5: the best feeling in the world. It's like the biggest
• 2:12:03
  Speaker 5: reason why I love to play. And yeah, then you
• 2:12:06
  Speaker 5: can just let it all out. Now I can smile
• 2:12:07
  Speaker 5: and enjoy myself. But yeah, like TV timeouts in between period,
• 2:12:10
  Speaker 5: I'm like, don't smile. Don't talk to anyone. Just focus
• 2:12:13
  Speaker 5: on your game. Let your unconscious brain do it.
• 2:12:16
  Speaker 1: And it was great. What is this guy's name, Jamie?
• 2:12:19
  Speaker 1: Does it say? And Ariel's... Okay.
• 2:12:25
  Speaker 6: I don't follow hockey anymore either.
• 2:12:26
  Speaker 1: But it's the same as you were talking about with
• 2:12:28
  Speaker 1: Archie when you're shooting a deer, right? Like you're going
• 2:12:30
  Speaker 1: through this process, you're thinking, you're going through it, but
• 2:12:33
  Speaker 1: it's like you're just trying to stay focused. Then after
• 2:12:35
  Speaker 1: it's over, you're like, oh! Now you can be conscious
• 2:12:38
  Speaker 1: and aware of this moment. Like, wow, this is insane.
• 2:12:40
  Speaker 6: Yeah, it's a flow state. Devin Cooley?
• 2:12:43
  Speaker 1: Devin Cooley. Amazing.
• 2:12:44
  Speaker 6: The only other place that I ever experienced that was
• 2:12:47
  Speaker 6: in the military. Like we would plan for six months
• 2:12:49
  Speaker 6: for an operation and do all this intelligence gathering going
• 2:12:52
  Speaker 6: into an operation where blood and treasure is on the line.
• 2:12:55
  Speaker 6: One of the operations.
• 2:12:56
  Speaker 1: Blood and treasure. I like how you put that.
• 2:12:59
  Speaker 6: Well, that's always the stake. When I was collecting intelligence,
• 2:13:02
  Speaker 6: those were always the stakes that I kept foremost in
• 2:13:05
  Speaker 6: my mind is that collect this like blood and treasure
• 2:13:08
  Speaker 6: is on the line. Like our country's money... and the
• 2:13:12
  Speaker 6: taxpayer that has to labor every day to pay these
• 2:13:15
  Speaker 6: fucking taxes. And the blood of the people, your brothers
• 2:13:19
  Speaker 6: that you love are the ones that are going into this.
• 2:13:22
  Speaker 6: Cause I was, like I said before, I'm not the
• 2:13:23
  Speaker 6: long tab or I'm not the cool guy. I was
• 2:13:25
  Speaker 6: the nerd for the cool guys. So I treated it
• 2:13:28
  Speaker 6: like it was like the, like the outcome of the
• 2:13:31
  Speaker 6: entire operation depended on me is always what went into
• 2:13:34
  Speaker 6: my brain. That was the only way that I went
• 2:13:36
  Speaker 6: into this. And if I wasn't totally locked in, But
• 2:13:39
  Speaker 6: when I would be on a hill or in a
• 2:13:41
  Speaker 6: helicopter or in a Humvee watching an operation go down
• 2:13:44
  Speaker 6: based off of my intelligence work, I would get into
• 2:13:46
  Speaker 6: that same flow state I get with bow hunting. Bow hunting,
• 2:13:49
  Speaker 6: when I was retiring from the military, I was so
• 2:13:51
  Speaker 6: stressed out because I had no idea what I was
• 2:13:52
  Speaker 6: going to do that was going to replicate this experience.
• 2:13:57
  Speaker 6: I was like, where am I going to get this
• 2:13:58
  Speaker 6: flow state from? And it dawned on me while I
• 2:14:01
  Speaker 6: was in the military that helping hunters in the same
• 2:14:04
  Speaker 6: way solve targeting problems as helping, you know, JSOC guys
• 2:14:08
  Speaker 6: or rangers or or green army guys um that sense
• 2:14:13
  Speaker 6: of completion that i would get at the end like
• 2:14:15
  Speaker 6: when bad guys were dead or arrested or you know
• 2:14:18
  Speaker 6: a terrorist operation was sunk um based off of all
• 2:14:21
  Speaker 6: that work was just like the most addictive feeling in
• 2:14:24
  Speaker 6: the world it's a very addictive feeling and that flow
• 2:14:26
  Speaker 6: state that i would get into when i was doing
• 2:14:28
  Speaker 6: work that was particularly meaningful and is such a hard
• 2:14:31
  Speaker 6: thing to replicate. It's like a place you have to
• 2:14:33
  Speaker 6: find yourself in. It's not a place you can put
• 2:14:35
  Speaker 6: yourself in. You have to get there, like start doing
• 2:14:38
  Speaker 6: the work, start putting things together, start thinking.
• 2:14:41
  Speaker 3: Here it is.
• 2:14:41
  Speaker 1: What do we got here, Jamie?
• 2:14:43
  Speaker 4: A friend of mine taught me this a long time ago.
• 2:14:45
  Speaker 3: I think he probably learned it in college somewhere.
• 2:14:47
  Speaker 1: Oh, I've seen this.
• 2:14:48
  Speaker 4: Four stages of competence.
• 2:14:49
  Speaker 1: Yes. Unconscious incompetence, conscious incompetence, unconscious competence, and conscious incompetence. completion, competence.
• 2:14:59
  Speaker 4: Unconscious competence is the last one.
• 2:15:00
  Speaker 1: The last one.
• 2:15:01
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 2:15:02
  Speaker 1: So the idea is that you start from ignorance and
• 2:15:06
  Speaker 1: we're all aware of a lack of knowledge of skill exists.
• 2:15:09
  Speaker 1: And then you go into conscious incompetence. We're aware that
• 2:15:13
  Speaker 1: a lack of knowledge and a skill exists. We're unaware initially.
• 2:15:17
  Speaker 1: And then you go to, we are able to use
• 2:15:21
  Speaker 1: the new skill with effort. So that's conscious competence and
• 2:15:24
  Speaker 1: And then mastery, we're able to use the skill easily
• 2:15:27
  Speaker 1: without effort.
• 2:15:29
  Speaker 6: It gets integrated into consciousness.
• 2:15:31
  Speaker 1: And then it starts all over again when you learn
• 2:15:32
  Speaker 1: something new. Yeah, and that's why people are addicted to
• 2:15:35
  Speaker 1: learning things new.
• 2:15:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:15:36
  Speaker 1: From the beginning, beginner stage is very important, very good
• 2:15:40
  Speaker 1: for the mind. And becoming a beginner at new things,
• 2:15:43
  Speaker 1: I think, is one of the best things a person
• 2:15:44
  Speaker 1: can do, especially a new difficult thing like bow hunting
• 2:15:48
  Speaker 1: or like jiu-jitsu or like golf or yoga, anything that's
• 2:15:52
  Speaker 1: hard to do. Like learning it in the beginning, it's
• 2:15:55
  Speaker 1: very exciting and very good for the mind. And I
• 2:15:58
  Speaker 1: think one of the things that happens to people is
• 2:15:59
  Speaker 1: they stop doing that and then their brain atrophies. Yep.
• 2:16:03
  Speaker 1: Their brain atrophies the same way your muscles atrophy when
• 2:16:05
  Speaker 1: you no longer use it.
• 2:16:06
  Speaker 6: Yep.
• 2:16:07
  Speaker 1: And that skill or the experience, rather, of learning a
• 2:16:11
  Speaker 1: new skill, learning a new world, a new universe that
• 2:16:15
  Speaker 1: you are now engrossed in, very, very beneficial.
• 2:16:19
  Speaker 6: It's so good for your ego, too.
• 2:16:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:16:21
  Speaker 6: Just– The thing, as I get better at anything, whether it's, um,
• 2:16:26
  Speaker 6: building apps, military operations, um, my limited time in doing
• 2:16:31
  Speaker 6: things like jujitsu, like I just rejoined or was attempting
• 2:16:33
  Speaker 6: to rejoin a gym, but I'm going to find.
• 2:16:35
  Speaker 1: A different one.
• 2:16:36
  Speaker 6: Um, just knowing there's a thing in life. Like when I,
• 2:16:41
  Speaker 6: when you get really good at something, you actually start
• 2:16:44
  Speaker 6: to learn how much you don't know.
• 2:16:45
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 2:16:46
  Speaker 6: It's like, you've just uncovered a new world of like,
• 2:16:48
  Speaker 6: holy shit. I really don't know anything. I thought I
• 2:16:50
  Speaker 6: was getting towards the top and this was a false mountain.
• 2:16:52
  Speaker 6: And now the big, like I looked at a mountain,
• 2:16:54
  Speaker 6: I started to climb, I got to the top and
• 2:16:56
  Speaker 6: I'm like, oh shit, this isn't even the mountain I
• 2:16:58
  Speaker 6: was looking at. That's over there.
• 2:16:59
  Speaker 1: Dennis McKenna had a great expression about this. He said,
• 2:17:03
  Speaker 1: I'm going to fuck this up, but it's essentially, I'm
• 2:17:06
  Speaker 1: paraphrasing it, that as you expand the bonfire of knowledge,
• 2:17:15
  Speaker 1: it highlights the surface area of ignorance, right?
• 2:17:20
  Speaker 6: That's pretty good.
• 2:17:20
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 2:17:21
  Speaker 1: And that the more you learn and the more it
• 2:17:23
  Speaker 1: expands this understanding that you have of the world you
• 2:17:27
  Speaker 1: live in, the more it highlights how much you don't know.
• 2:17:30
  Speaker 1: And that's why people that pretend they know it all
• 2:17:32
  Speaker 1: are so fucking dangerous. As the bonfire of knowledge grows brighter,
• 2:17:36
  Speaker 1: the more the darkness is revealed to our startled eyes.
• 2:17:40
  Speaker 1: That's Terrence. I think his brother was the original. I
• 2:17:44
  Speaker 1: think that someone's paraphrasing that. I think they're attributing that
• 2:17:47
  Speaker 1: to Terrence when it's Dennis. I think because I'm might
• 2:17:50
  Speaker 1: be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that Terrence is quoting Dennis.
• 2:17:56
  Speaker 1: Either way, both brilliant guys.
• 2:17:58
  Speaker 6: Yeah, it's like the yin-yang thing. Like have one foot
• 2:18:01
  Speaker 6: in the competence of what you've learned and then another
• 2:18:04
  Speaker 6: foot in the unconscious incompetence of what you don't know
• 2:18:08
  Speaker 6: or what you know you don't know. And it's like
• 2:18:10
  Speaker 6: one of those things, too, is like as you begin
• 2:18:12
  Speaker 6: to learn these things, you realize I almost become ashamed
• 2:18:16
  Speaker 6: when I see how great I can be in certain
• 2:18:19
  Speaker 6: like how good. One of the things my grandmother taught me,
• 2:18:22
  Speaker 6: all of these pearls of wisdom that I come back
• 2:18:24
  Speaker 6: to now because there's a significant amount of time where
• 2:18:27
  Speaker 6: I was being raised by my grandparents. My grandmother used
• 2:18:29
  Speaker 6: to say, be good for goodness sakes. And as a kid,
• 2:18:32
  Speaker 6: I was always like, whatever, grandma.
• 2:18:34
  Speaker 1: Isn't that like Santa Claus? I don't know how to
• 2:18:36
  Speaker 1: be good.
• 2:18:37
  Speaker 6: I think it's from that song. I think that's right.
• 2:18:39
  Speaker 6: I think that's right. But she would always say like
• 2:18:41
  Speaker 6: when I was fucking up, she like be good for
• 2:18:43
  Speaker 6: goodness sakes. Like just be good.
• 2:18:44
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 2:18:45
  Speaker 6: And I threw that away, but she like put a seed.
• 2:18:48
  Speaker 6: I think Andy said, I put that can of food
• 2:18:51
  Speaker 6: on the, on the, in the pantry of my mind
• 2:18:53
  Speaker 6: to come back to it later. Cause now in my adulthood,
• 2:18:56
  Speaker 6: it's like, um, I'm, I'm always trying to, um, you know,
• 2:19:01
  Speaker 6: be good, but also for no reward in itself. Like
• 2:19:04
  Speaker 6: one of the things, a funny story I always tell
• 2:19:06
  Speaker 6: is when my wife and kids, when I go to
• 2:19:08
  Speaker 6: poison my children at McDonald's every once in a while,
• 2:19:12
  Speaker 6: I always pay for the vehicle behind me. So we'll
• 2:19:14
  Speaker 6: go through and, you know, we have this thing and
• 2:19:16
  Speaker 6: my kids are always like looking at the vehicle behind
• 2:19:19
  Speaker 6: because I always tell the person at McDonald's like I'm
• 2:19:20
  Speaker 6: paying for the person behind me. I do this in
• 2:19:22
  Speaker 6: other places in my life much more meaningfully, but this
• 2:19:25
  Speaker 6: is a good example. And this one time the lady's like,
• 2:19:28
  Speaker 6: are you sure you want to pay for the people
• 2:19:30
  Speaker 6: behind you? And like my wife looks at me and
• 2:19:31
  Speaker 6: she's like, uh, you know, what's the problem? And she's like,
• 2:19:34
  Speaker 6: it's going to be like 170 bucks or something. And
• 2:19:37
  Speaker 6: I was like, well, it's not a principle if I
• 2:19:39
  Speaker 6: don't do it right now. So I'm going to pay
• 2:19:41
  Speaker 6: for them. And then as we're pulling away, there's like
• 2:19:43
  Speaker 6: big group of like, you know, a bunch of kids
• 2:19:45
  Speaker 6: just going nuts that their food was paid for. Um,
• 2:19:48
  Speaker 6: but I would often engage in those types of things
• 2:19:50
  Speaker 6: because it made me feel good. And that's probably the
• 2:19:54
  Speaker 6: wrong reason to be gracious. And as I've gotten older.
• 2:19:58
  Speaker 1: Why is it bad to feel good, though? You're doing
• 2:20:00
  Speaker 1: a good thing and you feel good doing a good thing.
• 2:20:02
  Speaker 6: There's something self-centric about it. A little bit.
• 2:20:05
  Speaker 1: I say that all the time, that there's something selfish
• 2:20:08
  Speaker 1: about being generous.
• 2:20:09
  Speaker 6: Yeah. And so now I try to do it with
• 2:20:11
  Speaker 6: no expectation that the person will ever know who did it.
• 2:20:15
  Speaker 6: And my hope is that they'll walk around saying they're
• 2:20:17
  Speaker 6: angels in the world or good people in the world.
• 2:20:20
  Speaker 6: Like I'll never know who this person is. So now
• 2:20:22
  Speaker 6: I try to do big, meaningful things in that way.
• 2:20:24
  Speaker 6: But that was the pearl that my grandmother dropped me with,
• 2:20:27
  Speaker 6: be good for goodness sakes. I'm just being good for
• 2:20:29
  Speaker 6: goodness sakes. I'm not doing it because it's going to
• 2:20:31
  Speaker 6: inflate my ego. I'm not doing it because I'm going
• 2:20:32
  Speaker 6: to go tell people what I've done. I'll never tell
• 2:20:35
  Speaker 6: people these things. I only use the McDonald's analogy because
• 2:20:38
  Speaker 6: it's an easy one. I'm not this benevolent guy. But
• 2:20:41
  Speaker 6: trying to do it in that way, it's just these
• 2:20:44
  Speaker 6: old ways of doing things and these old sayings that
• 2:20:46
  Speaker 6: people have start to come full circle. Then you realize
• 2:20:49
  Speaker 6: there's a ton of freaking profanity in these things that
• 2:20:53
  Speaker 6: we can leverage and try to make ourselves better people
• 2:20:55
  Speaker 6: by doing it yeah.
• 2:20:57
  Speaker 1: It's interesting that idea that there's knowledge that's in us
• 2:21:03
  Speaker 1: that we don't know and that we've been given whether
• 2:21:08
  Speaker 1: I guess it's through genetics or lack of a better
• 2:21:11
  Speaker 1: term or through whatever soul transmission but you know if
• 2:21:16
  Speaker 1: you're aware that there's a young Chinese kid who did
• 2:21:21
  Speaker 1: an experiment with moths. And he ran this experiment with
• 2:21:27
  Speaker 1: moths in the caterpillar stage, and he found out that
• 2:21:31
  Speaker 1: through the transformation from a moth to a caterpillar, they
• 2:21:36
  Speaker 1: essentially become like mush and then reemerge as a caterpillar
• 2:21:39
  Speaker 1: once they go into the cocoon. This is a very
• 2:21:42
  Speaker 1: intense metabolic transformation where their body is broken down to
• 2:21:46
  Speaker 1: this mush and then becomes a butterfly. or a moth,
• 2:21:52
  Speaker 1: that this knowledge is transmitted through that process. And not
• 2:21:57
  Speaker 1: just that, but it's also transmitted to their offspring somehow
• 2:22:01
  Speaker 1: or another. And he's proven this.
• 2:22:03
  Speaker 6: Epigenetics, I think it's called.
• 2:22:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but this kid proved this like physically with these animals,
• 2:22:09
  Speaker 1: with these insects. See if you can find that.
• 2:22:11
  Speaker 4: I've only found a video saying it, and they don't
• 2:22:14
  Speaker 4: have a link on that.
• 2:22:15
  Speaker 1: It has something to do with lavender. They used a
• 2:22:18
  Speaker 1: scent and the scent– when they encountered the scent, they
• 2:22:23
  Speaker 1: developed this like– they had something where there was like
• 2:22:28
  Speaker 1: a vibration. And when they encountered the scent, there was
• 2:22:31
  Speaker 1: an uncomfortable vibration they experienced. So they avoided that scent.
• 2:22:34
  Speaker 1: And he could prove that the moths had– that it
• 2:22:39
  Speaker 1: had gone from the caterpillar stage and the moths still
• 2:22:42
  Speaker 1: retain that memory. And then– Also, it had been transmitted
• 2:22:46
  Speaker 1: to their offspring.
• 2:22:46
  Speaker 6: I believe B.F. Skinner also did this with rats.
• 2:22:49
  Speaker 1: Right, with mazes, right? Yeah.
• 2:22:51
  Speaker 6: Yeah. And with the smell of cats.
• 2:22:53
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 2:22:53
  Speaker 6: Something along those lines.
• 2:22:54
  Speaker 1: Well, the rat thing is really interesting, too, because this
• 2:22:57
  Speaker 1: puts it— right, Skinner, right? This also puts it into the
• 2:23:01
  Speaker 1: principle of morphic resonance. You know, like the idea is
• 2:23:05
  Speaker 1: that you're—so this is one of the things they've shown
• 2:23:09
  Speaker 1: is that if you teach rats on the East Coast
• 2:23:12
  Speaker 1: how to navigate a maze— Rats on the West coast
• 2:23:14
  Speaker 1: can navigate that maze quicker. Yeah. Yeah. This is Rupert
• 2:23:17
  Speaker 1: Sheldrake's work. Yeah.
• 2:23:19
  Speaker 6: Strange.
• 2:23:20
  Speaker 1: Very weird stuff because I think we're very, um, we
• 2:23:26
  Speaker 1: have this narrow minded perception of what knowledge is and
• 2:23:29
  Speaker 1: what information is and where it is and where it's
• 2:23:31
  Speaker 1: coming from. It's like that thing that you said, when
• 2:23:33
  Speaker 1: you see someone, you get the ick.
• 2:23:35
  Speaker 6: Yep.
• 2:23:35
  Speaker 1: Like, well, I don't know what you're getting. Like maybe
• 2:23:38
  Speaker 1: you're getting, there's maybe it's pattern recognition. Maybe it's not.
• 2:23:42
  Speaker 1: Maybe there's like a, there's a sense that we have
• 2:23:45
  Speaker 1: that's undefined that you can't put a ruler to, or
• 2:23:48
  Speaker 1: you can't put on a scale, but there's something there
• 2:23:51
  Speaker 1: that we're not totally aware of that allows us to
• 2:23:54
  Speaker 1: stay safe and has been inside of us forever.
• 2:23:57
  Speaker 6: I think it's like a framing problem because like the
• 2:24:00
  Speaker 6: Greeks would say the spirit of war. And I don't
• 2:24:06
  Speaker 6: think they meant like a flying demon or something or like,
• 2:24:09
  Speaker 6: you know, they didn't mean, That there's this god of
• 2:24:11
  Speaker 6: war and he's a physical entity. I think they mean
• 2:24:14
  Speaker 6: this is a persistent thing across all classes of humans
• 2:24:18
  Speaker 6: that no matter who they are, this is inside of them.
• 2:24:21
  Speaker 6: And so it's like a god to us. It's a
• 2:24:24
  Speaker 6: god because it rules us. We don't have it. It
• 2:24:28
  Speaker 6: has us.
• 2:24:28
  Speaker 1: Well, it's that spirit that comes out when I was
• 2:24:30
  Speaker 1: talking about with protests.
• 2:24:31
  Speaker 6: Yes, exactly.
• 2:24:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. And so there's a, the mob mentality thing.
• 2:24:35
  Speaker 1: It's this thing that happens to us.
• 2:24:37
  Speaker 6: Yeah. And so if that's why I say, I don't
• 2:24:39
  Speaker 6: make a lot of distinction between God, the collective unconscious
• 2:24:44
  Speaker 6: or transcendent reality. It's this abyss of unknowing that we
• 2:24:49
  Speaker 6: are fortunate to tap into every once in a while
• 2:24:52
  Speaker 6: and pull something out of it. And like, it was interesting.
• 2:24:56
  Speaker 6: I watched your interview with JD Vance and you guys
• 2:24:59
  Speaker 6: were talking about the difference between like what he conceptualizes
• 2:25:02
  Speaker 6: as a demon and And what you conceptualize as an alien.
• 2:25:05
  Speaker 6: And I just think that was a mismatch impedance. I
• 2:25:08
  Speaker 6: think you guys could be talking about the same thing,
• 2:25:10
  Speaker 6: but you're using a regionally accepted formal lexicon to describe it.
• 2:25:15
  Speaker 6: But you could be saying the same thing. Perhaps.
• 2:25:20
  Speaker 1: But I had a purpose to why I was questioning
• 2:25:22
  Speaker 1: him on that. My purpose is that my perception was
• 2:25:26
  Speaker 1: that he was signaling to a certain group of very
• 2:25:30
  Speaker 1: religious voters.
• 2:25:31
  Speaker 6: Yes, I know.
• 2:25:32
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean?
• 2:25:33
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 2:25:33
  Speaker 6: No, I, and I know that's why I was so,
• 2:25:36
  Speaker 6: I don't know if I messaged you about this or not.
• 2:25:38
  Speaker 6: I believe I did, but it blew my mind that
• 2:25:41
  Speaker 6: people were talking shit that you had him on. It's like,
• 2:25:43
  Speaker 6: why wouldn't you want the vice president on? Like there
• 2:25:45
  Speaker 6: are a bunch of comments like, Oh, so-and-so's here. Big
• 2:25:48
  Speaker 6: freaking deal.
• 2:25:49
  Speaker 1: Blah, blah, blah.
• 2:25:49
  Speaker 6: I was like, look, we're in a hot war and
• 2:25:52
  Speaker 6: there's a lot of shit going on in the world.
• 2:25:53
  Speaker 6: And even if Joe has been told he can't ask
• 2:25:55
  Speaker 6: about certain things, like you talked about with Kamala, uh,
• 2:25:58
  Speaker 6: I still want the guy talking for three hours.
• 2:26:00
  Speaker 1: I didn't get any requests from him about not talking
• 2:26:03
  Speaker 1: about things.
• 2:26:03
  Speaker 6: I'm just saying, even if that happened, I still want
• 2:26:05
  Speaker 6: those people talking for three hours because you can't sit
• 2:26:08
  Speaker 6: for three hours and talk and not reveal yourself.
• 2:26:11
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 2:26:11
  Speaker 6: Like, I mean, things don't protest too much. Like, you
• 2:26:14
  Speaker 6: will talk about the things that are going on, even
• 2:26:17
  Speaker 6: if you don't want to. Just get the person talking.
• 2:26:20
  Speaker 6: And that's what I think is the beauty of this
• 2:26:21
  Speaker 6: podcast for a myriad reasons. One of them is, Everyone
• 2:26:26
  Speaker 6: can come on here and just talk and people will
• 2:26:28
  Speaker 6: reveal themselves in those three hours. You will get to
• 2:26:31
  Speaker 6: the nexus of who someone is over that three hours.
• 2:26:34
  Speaker 6: And that's why I want Bernie on here or I
• 2:26:37
  Speaker 6: want JD on here. I want Trump on here, Kamala.
• 2:26:40
  Speaker 6: And when someone won't come on to the biggest podcast
• 2:26:43
  Speaker 6: in the world who's running for high office, then we
• 2:26:46
  Speaker 6: should dispatch with that person. And it wouldn't matter if
• 2:26:49
  Speaker 6: it was this podcast or another one. The biggest, if
• 2:26:51
  Speaker 6: you can't sit there and talk about your principles and
• 2:26:54
  Speaker 6: your organizing criteria of how you, the way you metabolize
• 2:26:59
  Speaker 6: the world and why you think you're the one who's
• 2:27:01
  Speaker 6: fit to change it. If you can't talk extemporaneously about that,
• 2:27:06
  Speaker 6: I don't want you in high office because you're not
• 2:27:08
  Speaker 6: revealing yourself.
• 2:27:09
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 2:27:10
  Speaker 1: You're not revealing yourself. You're probably a construct. Yes. You're probably,
• 2:27:14
  Speaker 1: you probably have this thing that you're promoting this, this
• 2:27:18
  Speaker 1: image that you're pursuing and that you're, you're trying to
• 2:27:20
  Speaker 1: get the general public to accept. That's not, totally real. Yeah.
• 2:27:25
  Speaker 6: This isn't Fox News for 15 minutes where you get
• 2:27:27
  Speaker 6: to read the talking points.
• 2:27:29
  Speaker 1: Right. That's the issue with those things. It's just not
• 2:27:32
  Speaker 1: enough of an understanding of who that person is. And
• 2:27:35
  Speaker 1: in a long-form podcast, you do get that understanding. I
• 2:27:39
  Speaker 1: get why people have that sense you shouldn't platform people.
• 2:27:42
  Speaker 1: I think that instinct is incorrect.
• 2:27:44
  Speaker 6: If I didn't like someone, I want them platformed.
• 2:27:47
  Speaker 1: Well, not only that, you already know them. Like, they're
• 2:27:50
  Speaker 1: already out there. You're not going to make them more popular.
• 2:27:53
  Speaker 1: They are who they are. Right. But, like, there's certain times,
• 2:27:56
  Speaker 1: like the Trump interview was a good one, Where you
• 2:28:00
  Speaker 1: never got a chance to see that guy talk that
• 2:28:03
  Speaker 1: way in really a non-combative situation. Because almost all media
• 2:28:09
  Speaker 1: that he did is either kissing his ass, like on
• 2:28:11
  Speaker 1: Fox News, or trying to take everything he said out
• 2:28:15
  Speaker 1: of context.
• 2:28:15
  Speaker 6: It was binary.
• 2:28:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And you get a chance to see someone communicate
• 2:28:21
  Speaker 1: for a long period of time.
• 2:28:23
  Speaker 6: I got so much shit about Trump after the podcast
• 2:28:25
  Speaker 6: with you when I gave him like a C plus
• 2:28:27
  Speaker 6: or something.
• 2:28:28
  Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
• 2:28:29
  Speaker 6: That was a majority of my messages.
• 2:28:31
  Speaker 1: Were they mad?
• 2:28:31
  Speaker 6: Yeah. You don't understand Trump and what he's doing. There's
• 2:28:34
  Speaker 6: 4D chess here and you're not getting it.
• 2:28:35
  Speaker 1: Oh, the 4D chess one is great.
• 2:28:37
  Speaker 6: And I was like, okay, please elucidate me on what's
• 2:28:40
  Speaker 6: going on right now because I'm not getting it. But
• 2:28:44
  Speaker 6: because I was for him in the beginning and then
• 2:28:46
  Speaker 6: when everything started going topsy-turvy and I wasn't able to,
• 2:28:50
  Speaker 6: you know, rationally predict what the next step was going
• 2:28:53
  Speaker 6: to be. Now I'm the bad guy. It's like, look,
• 2:28:55
  Speaker 6: I just wanted like these five things and I'm not
• 2:28:57
  Speaker 6: getting them. I'm getting one of them.
• 2:28:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:28:59
  Speaker 6: Uh, can we have a discussion about the other four? Um,
• 2:29:02
  Speaker 6: and so I just, it's like you said, people aren't
• 2:29:05
  Speaker 6: going to get changed. There's no one's going to listen
• 2:29:08
  Speaker 6: to your podcast with Kamala and say, you know what?
• 2:29:11
  Speaker 6: I was a right wing guy, you know, before this podcast.
• 2:29:14
  Speaker 6: Now I think I might vote for Kamala.
• 2:29:16
  Speaker 1: But the thing is, there are a bunch of people
• 2:29:18
  Speaker 1: that she could have reached that are in the middle.
• 2:29:20
  Speaker 6: For sure. Yes.
• 2:29:21
  Speaker 1: That's where I think there was a missed opportunity. And
• 2:29:24
  Speaker 1: I think a lot of people agree to that.
• 2:29:26
  Speaker 6: Or who want to know more about her. Like, The
• 2:29:28
  Speaker 6: one thing I'll say about, I'll say a good thing
• 2:29:30
  Speaker 6: about Trump. I've met him a few times. I was
• 2:29:32
  Speaker 6: on stage with him in North Carolina. He's really good
• 2:29:35
  Speaker 6: at like summing one up and someone on up, summing
• 2:29:37
  Speaker 6: someone up quickly. Like when I first met him, I
• 2:29:40
  Speaker 6: like shook his hand. He's like, so you're like the
• 2:29:43
  Speaker 6: AI guy.
• 2:29:43
  Speaker 1: You're the AI guy.
• 2:29:44
  Speaker 6: You can do AI. And I was like, uh, well, yeah,
• 2:29:47
  Speaker 6: I mean, I was a soldier in the military. I
• 2:29:49
  Speaker 6: kind of learned it while I was there. And he's like, soldier,
• 2:29:52
  Speaker 6: I could see you being central casting AI. I don't
• 2:29:54
  Speaker 6: think so. And that was our conversation. And I was like,
• 2:29:58
  Speaker 6: This guy's like– he just summed me up in like
• 2:30:00
  Speaker 6: a second. Because I'm more soldier than I am that.
• 2:30:05
  Speaker 6: And he said some other things, but that was about it.
• 2:30:08
  Speaker 6: And I just stood behind him on stage for a
• 2:30:10
  Speaker 6: couple of hours. But he's got an ability– he's got
• 2:30:15
  Speaker 6: this comedic timing, which I think is unheard of. Pretty good.
• 2:30:21
  Speaker 6: But there's other things I just disagree with. And that's
• 2:30:24
  Speaker 6: a free world to disagree.
• 2:30:26
  Speaker 1: It's very clear that you don't have ultimate power as
• 2:30:30
  Speaker 1: a president.
• 2:30:31
  Speaker 3: No.
• 2:30:31
  Speaker 1: You can't just do things.
• 2:30:33
  Speaker 6: And thank God for it.
• 2:30:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, that's what the whole process
• 2:30:37
  Speaker 1: is supposed to be about. That's the reason why we
• 2:30:40
  Speaker 1: have Congress and the Senate. It's the reason why all
• 2:30:43
  Speaker 1: that stuff exists.
• 2:30:45
  Speaker 6: What do you think? What do you think? We're looking
• 2:30:47
  Speaker 6: at Gavin Newsom.
• 2:30:48
  Speaker 1: And I don't think so.
• 2:30:49
  Speaker 6: Or someone like that.
• 2:30:50
  Speaker 1: I think he's too much of a liability. I don't
• 2:30:52
  Speaker 1: think they're going to. There's just too much going on
• 2:30:55
  Speaker 1: with them. Well, just I mean, unless they were severely desperate.
• 2:30:59
  Speaker 1: I think it's probably going to be someone who's not
• 2:31:01
  Speaker 1: tainted in the public eye. Someone, you know, because we
• 2:31:06
  Speaker 1: buy narrative so quickly. We we hated or I don't
• 2:31:09
  Speaker 1: say we. A lot of people hated Kamala Harris as
• 2:31:12
  Speaker 1: a vice president, and then all of a sudden she
• 2:31:13
  Speaker 1: was our savior. And they did that quickly. There's a
• 2:31:17
  Speaker 1: way that they can promote things, especially now through bots
• 2:31:21
  Speaker 1: and social media. Social media is infested with nonsense. It's
• 2:31:26
  Speaker 1: infested with bots. It's infested with completely fake stories. There's
• 2:31:30
  Speaker 1: so many stories that I read, like national news stories
• 2:31:33
  Speaker 1: that are absolutely fake on X and that people just
• 2:31:36
  Speaker 1: put up there. And I think they're trying to discourage
• 2:31:39
  Speaker 1: that somehow. I think, you know, like you don't get
• 2:31:44
  Speaker 1: as much money from– because there's things like you get
• 2:31:47
  Speaker 1: money from posting on X. I don't, but some people do.
• 2:31:50
  Speaker 1: Like you sign up and it's people that make their
• 2:31:53
  Speaker 1: living from engagement. I knew they had that on Facebook.
• 2:31:55
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.
• 2:31:56
  Speaker 1: They have it on X. Yeah. People make their living
• 2:31:59
  Speaker 1: with engagement.
• 2:32:00
  Speaker 6: But the bots are a real thing. I can speak
• 2:32:02
  Speaker 6: personally to that. Like I've pulled the string on the
• 2:32:04
  Speaker 6: bot stuff, looking at how they get funded, where they're
• 2:32:07
  Speaker 6: ran out of, the people that are behind them, why
• 2:32:09
  Speaker 6: they do them, how they do them. And it's such
• 2:32:11
  Speaker 6: a real thing to a degree that people just don't
• 2:32:15
  Speaker 6: understand how they're being manipulated by these things.
• 2:32:18
  Speaker 1: It's enormous.
• 2:32:19
  Speaker 6: It's an enormous market, billions. And it's funded in ways
• 2:32:25
  Speaker 6: that I think would surprise people. And thank God for
• 2:32:29
  Speaker 6: things like data leaks and things like it, where we
• 2:32:32
  Speaker 6: can get to this information or just the fact that
• 2:32:34
  Speaker 6: there's campaign finance laws and that. Money has to be
• 2:32:37
  Speaker 6: routed and accounted for and these types of things so
• 2:32:40
  Speaker 6: that people can pull the string on it and understand
• 2:32:42
  Speaker 6: how things are being manipulated in the public eye.
• 2:32:44
  Speaker 1: It should be illegal. It really should be. I am
• 2:32:47
  Speaker 1: all for people being able to express their opinions, but
• 2:32:50
  Speaker 1: it should be an individual's opinions or the opinions of
• 2:32:53
  Speaker 1: an individual that represents an organization. If you're a spokesperson
• 2:32:56
  Speaker 1: for an organization, you want to tweet something, okay, no
• 2:33:00
  Speaker 1: problem with that. But I think that organized campaigns where–
• 2:33:04
  Speaker 1: let's say in particular like there's some sort of big
• 2:33:08
  Speaker 1: social issue, something that's going on in the world or
• 2:33:12
  Speaker 1: something that involves our civilization, our culture. And then you
• 2:33:15
  Speaker 1: have either a foreign country or you have an intelligence
• 2:33:20
  Speaker 1: agency or you have a corporation that's funding that. this
• 2:33:24
  Speaker 1: propaganda narrative, this fake viewpoint and making it look like
• 2:33:28
  Speaker 1: people are in lockstep with this. And then you've got
• 2:33:30
  Speaker 1: a lot of people that if that, whatever that narrative is,
• 2:33:34
  Speaker 1: is attached to the ideology they identify with, whether it's
• 2:33:37
  Speaker 1: left wing or right wing, then those people will start
• 2:33:40
  Speaker 1: parroting those points and you'll see it. You see this
• 2:33:43
  Speaker 1: like sheep-like behavior with people. And it has a tremendous
• 2:33:46
  Speaker 1: effect on how we view things as a culture. And
• 2:33:50
  Speaker 1: I think it should be illegal. I think you should
• 2:33:52
  Speaker 1: have to be a person, post for yourself.
• 2:33:56
  Speaker 6: Yeah, even if you post, even if you're not named,
• 2:33:58
  Speaker 6: you should have to authenticate some way if you're going
• 2:34:01
  Speaker 6: to enter the zeitgeist of public, any of these types
• 2:34:04
  Speaker 6: of things. Because, I mean, the other thing about Facebook
• 2:34:09
  Speaker 6: and social media and these other things that people don't
• 2:34:10
  Speaker 6: realize is they can feed you the narrative and put
• 2:34:13
  Speaker 6: it on the vector that helps you metabolize it in
• 2:34:15
  Speaker 6: the best way. In other words, if a public person
• 2:34:18
  Speaker 6: is running for office, And you might only agree with
• 2:34:21
  Speaker 6: 10% of what this public person thinks. There are ways
• 2:34:24
  Speaker 6: to manipulate the algorithm. So you're only fed that 10%.
• 2:34:27
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 2:34:27
  Speaker 6: So you only understand this. You're only getting what you
• 2:34:30
  Speaker 6: agree with with this particular politician. And there might be
• 2:34:32
  Speaker 6: 10 other things you don't agree with that you're not
• 2:34:34
  Speaker 6: going to see unless you pull the thread yourself. And unfortunately,
• 2:34:38
  Speaker 6: just a lot of people don't pull the thread themselves
• 2:34:39
  Speaker 6: because they're busy. They have to make money. They have families.
• 2:34:42
  Speaker 6: And so they're only getting one side of the story.
• 2:34:45
  Speaker 6: And then it's being monetized, which is also really gross.
• 2:34:49
  Speaker 6: It's just super dangerous. It's super dangerous.
• 2:34:51
  Speaker 1: But it's super dangerous and it's super easy to manipulate us.
• 2:34:55
  Speaker 1: It's like there's never been a better time to use
• 2:34:58
  Speaker 1: propaganda on a society than today.
• 2:35:01
  Speaker 6: Yeah. And I watch the ways I've been in the past,
• 2:35:03
  Speaker 6: how it's happened to me. So it's like I'm not
• 2:35:05
  Speaker 6: immune to this even though I understand a lot of
• 2:35:07
  Speaker 6: it and how it's happening.
• 2:35:08
  Speaker 1: None of us are. And you're certainly not immune to
• 2:35:10
  Speaker 1: your algorithm. Your algorithm and the echo chamber that you
• 2:35:13
  Speaker 1: exist in, they just constantly bombard you with one-sided opinions.
• 2:35:17
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 2:35:18
  Speaker 1: It's a weird time in terms of truth, and everyone
• 2:35:22
  Speaker 1: has to figure out what's the best way for them
• 2:35:24
  Speaker 1: to engage with that. The way that I do it,
• 2:35:28
  Speaker 1: I only look at things that people send me. Someone
• 2:35:31
  Speaker 1: has to send me something interesting. I'm not seeking anything
• 2:35:34
  Speaker 1: out anymore. It's just too much. It's too negative.
• 2:35:37
  Speaker 6: Yeah, and you'll drown in it.
• 2:35:38
  Speaker 1: You'll drown in it, and it also takes away from
• 2:35:41
  Speaker 1: your time. It's such a time suck and such an
• 2:35:45
  Speaker 1: attention suck, and it will waste it. It's wasted energy.
• 2:35:49
  Speaker 1: And I always try to explain it to people in
• 2:35:51
  Speaker 1: terms of I try to look at my attention and
• 2:35:54
  Speaker 1: my energy of the day as units. Yes. I have
• 2:35:57
  Speaker 1: 100 units. And if I spend 30 of those units
• 2:36:00
  Speaker 1: concentrating on nonsense and horseshit, I've wasted 30 units, very
• 2:36:04
  Speaker 1: precious units. It's only a certain amount of days in
• 2:36:07
  Speaker 1: a year and a certain amount of years in your life.
• 2:36:09
  Speaker 6: I was going to say that about gambling. The reason
• 2:36:11
  Speaker 6: I don't like gambling is because if I throw down $ 100,
• 2:36:14
  Speaker 6: that's an hour of my time. And it makes me worried. Like,
• 2:36:20
  Speaker 6: I only have so much time. I'm like, I'm throwing
• 2:36:22
  Speaker 6: an hour away.
• 2:36:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:36:23
  Speaker 6: I just threw an hour to this casino.
• 2:36:25
  Speaker 1: I think I would gamble on fights if I wasn't
• 2:36:27
  Speaker 1: involved in the UFC. I think I would do that
• 2:36:29
  Speaker 1: because I think I'm pretty good at it.
• 2:36:30
  Speaker 6: It gets you into the fight.
• 2:36:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:36:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:36:32
  Speaker 1: A hundred percent. If you've got money on Gaethje and
• 2:36:34
  Speaker 1: he starts to knock down Ilya Topoyer, you're like, oh, shit.
• 2:36:37
  Speaker 6: I was doing cartwheels in my living room.
• 2:36:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:36:39
  Speaker 6: But I just think about things as time. And so
• 2:36:42
  Speaker 6: when I had that three grand, I'm like, well, this
• 2:36:44
  Speaker 6: is what it would take me. I think of my
• 2:36:45
  Speaker 6: personal time. I bill it about a hundred bucks an hour.
• 2:36:48
  Speaker 6: It's about how I look at my personal time. So
• 2:36:50
  Speaker 6: that's time I can't get back or I've just gained
• 2:36:53
  Speaker 6: a bunch of time by getting that $ 3, 000. So I
• 2:36:55
  Speaker 6: get nervous when I think about getting rid of it.
• 2:36:57
  Speaker 6: Like I don't like to spend like that. I want
• 2:36:59
  Speaker 6: to be able to pull the thread. And you said
• 2:37:01
  Speaker 6: it is units. I would say money, units, it doesn't matter.
• 2:37:04
  Speaker 6: Because time ultimately in the final analysis is the only
• 2:37:06
  Speaker 6: thing we can't make more of.
• 2:37:07
  Speaker 1: Right. At least now. I think to live a better life,
• 2:37:11
  Speaker 1: use your time wisely. And that is an old age
• 2:37:14
  Speaker 1: old expression.
• 2:37:15
  Speaker 6: Another one of those pearls of wisdom that seems to
• 2:37:17
  Speaker 6: come back.
• 2:37:18
  Speaker 1: Use your time wisely.
• 2:37:19
  Speaker 6: Only so much of it.
• 2:37:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah. It's so finite. Yeah. I mean, it's so funny
• 2:37:24
  Speaker 1: when I i have days where i do nothing on
• 2:37:27
  Speaker 1: purpose where i just i'm burnt out i've done too
• 2:37:29
  Speaker 1: much and i just like to veg date i just
• 2:37:32
  Speaker 1: like to hang out in front of the tv and
• 2:37:33
  Speaker 1: watch cool shit i just want to be entertained yeah
• 2:37:36
  Speaker 1: but i'm amazed at how much time flies by it
• 2:37:38
  Speaker 1: was like sometimes i'll be watching just youtube documentaries and
• 2:37:43
  Speaker 1: it's five hours later i'm like.
• 2:37:45
  Speaker 6: Fuck yeah covid feels like yesterday.
• 2:37:47
  Speaker 1: Right it does it does it does It does. It
• 2:37:50
  Speaker 1: really does. It's nuts. It's nuts. We live in a
• 2:37:55
  Speaker 1: very unique moment in history. And I think about to
• 2:37:59
  Speaker 1: become even more unique.
• 2:38:01
  Speaker 6: In which ways?
• 2:38:02
  Speaker 1: With AI.
• 2:38:03
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 2:38:04
  Speaker 1: I think the way AI is going to transform society
• 2:38:06
  Speaker 1: is going to be unlike anything that's ever happened before.
• 2:38:10
  Speaker 6: How do you think it's going to transform society?
• 2:38:13
  Speaker 1: Well, I think jobs are going to be eliminated. That's
• 2:38:15
  Speaker 1: a big one.
• 2:38:16
  Speaker 6: Eliminated?
• 2:38:16
  Speaker 1: Eliminated. I think there's going to be no use for
• 2:38:19
  Speaker 1: people for a lot of things that people do right now.
• 2:38:21
  Speaker 6: What time scale are we talking?
• 2:38:22
  Speaker 1: 10 years maximum.
• 2:38:24
  Speaker 6: Maximum?
• 2:38:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, maximum. In 10 years, the world's going to be unrecognizable.
• 2:38:28
  Speaker 1: That's what I think.
• 2:38:31
  Speaker 6: So how do you feel? You think this will happen?
• 2:38:35
  Speaker 6: You think we're on that course already?
• 2:38:36
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 2:38:37
  Speaker 6: And that all jobs will be subsumed?
• 2:38:42
  Speaker 1: No, not all jobs. I think creative endeavors are always
• 2:38:45
  Speaker 1: going to exist. There's always going to be... Human beings
• 2:38:48
  Speaker 1: are always going to have the need for human connection.
• 2:38:50
  Speaker 1: We're always going to want to see live sports. We're
• 2:38:52
  Speaker 1: always going to want to see live music. Live comedy
• 2:38:55
  Speaker 1: is always going to exist. I think going to the
• 2:38:57
  Speaker 1: movies is a great sort of a community experience. I
• 2:39:01
  Speaker 1: used to love going to comedy movies. Comedy movies when
• 2:39:04
  Speaker 1: they used to make them.
• 2:39:05
  Speaker 6: Oh, yeah.
• 2:39:05
  Speaker 1: Fucking garbage. Woke, killed comedy movies. Yeah. We used to
• 2:39:09
  Speaker 1: be able to go and you're laughing really hard with
• 2:39:12
  Speaker 1: a whole group of people that you don't know. Just
• 2:39:14
  Speaker 1: like going to a comedy club. It's very similar in
• 2:39:16
  Speaker 1: a lot of ways.
• 2:39:17
  Speaker 6: I was telling my wife about your comedy club. And
• 2:39:19
  Speaker 6: I said, it's the closest thing to 1996 that I
• 2:39:23
  Speaker 6: can get to. And she's like, well, what are you
• 2:39:25
  Speaker 6: talking about? I'm like, well, you lock your phone away.
• 2:39:27
  Speaker 6: You go in there. There's no worry about someone recording something.
• 2:39:30
  Speaker 6: People get to go on stage and talk shit. And
• 2:39:33
  Speaker 6: you just feel like you're back in a place. Like
• 2:39:37
  Speaker 6: no one's sitting there scrolling. I hate watching people at
• 2:39:39
  Speaker 6: dinner and both of them are scrolling their phones.
• 2:39:41
  Speaker 1: I know.
• 2:39:42
  Speaker 6: And you don't see any of that. And it's just
• 2:39:44
  Speaker 6: shit talking and fun. And you're with your buddies and
• 2:39:47
  Speaker 6: you're laughing. And it's just a great experience. And so
• 2:39:52
  Speaker 6: I have a theory about AI when it comes to
• 2:39:55
  Speaker 6: what you just talked about. So I think we're in
• 2:39:57
  Speaker 6: agreement in at least one thing. And I think what's
• 2:40:00
  Speaker 6: going to happen is if you look at like the
• 2:40:02
  Speaker 6: number one movie in 2020 or 2019 was like Avengers
• 2:40:07
  Speaker 6: Endgame or Avengers Infinity War, those two movies. Highly digitized,
• 2:40:12
  Speaker 6: tons of CGI. Everything's getting done in front of a
• 2:40:15
  Speaker 6: green screen. And it made, you know, $ 2 billion or
• 2:40:19
  Speaker 6: over a billion. I don't remember exactly what the number was.
• 2:40:22
  Speaker 6: And then you look at this last year and the
• 2:40:24
  Speaker 6: biggest movie per dollar spent was Obsession, which was made
• 2:40:27
  Speaker 6: by a YouTube creator who was doing stuff out of
• 2:40:31
  Speaker 6: his basement a few years earlier. So I think to
• 2:40:34
  Speaker 6: your point about people wanting genuine human interaction and My
• 2:40:38
  Speaker 6: theory as it pertains to AI is AI will become
• 2:40:42
  Speaker 6: ubiquitous in certain ways. It will eventually, fortunately or unfortunately,
• 2:40:47
  Speaker 6: run massive parts of the economy. It will run a
• 2:40:52
  Speaker 6: lot of things. But what will happen with people will
• 2:40:57
  Speaker 6: get sick. And in a few years, your daughters are
• 2:40:59
  Speaker 6: going to be able to send you an Avengers movie
• 2:41:01
  Speaker 6: where it's you, Ari, Shane– Right now they.
• 2:41:04
  Speaker 1: Can do that.
• 2:41:05
  Speaker 6: Well, I'm saying like with a prompt, they'll make a
• 2:41:07
  Speaker 6: two-hour movie and it'll just be the Avengers movie and
• 2:41:10
  Speaker 6: it will look indistinguishable from another movie. And you'll get
• 2:41:14
  Speaker 6: sick of that quick. And then people– I think things
• 2:41:18
  Speaker 6: like regional theater houses. My wife and I's favorite thing
• 2:41:21
  Speaker 6: to do is go to the Nutcracker at Christmastime in D.C.
• 2:41:25
  Speaker 6: at the National Theater. Those things will start springing up
• 2:41:29
  Speaker 6: and they'll be easier to spring up because to start
• 2:41:31
  Speaker 6: a business, to start an LLC, if you have a
• 2:41:33
  Speaker 6: novel idea, you're looking at $ 30, 000 to $ 100, 000 of negotiating
• 2:41:37
  Speaker 6: red tape and government in order to start a business.
• 2:41:40
  Speaker 6: AI is going to make that super easy. And I
• 2:41:43
  Speaker 6: think in a few years we're going to see theaters.
• 2:41:45
  Speaker 6: I think we're going to see– I agree with Elon
• 2:41:47
  Speaker 6: in that prices are going to get way cheaper to
• 2:41:50
  Speaker 6: make something production scale-wise. Amazon is going to be– you'll
• 2:41:54
  Speaker 6: be able to buy a coffee table for $ 1 or $ 2, $ 3.
• 2:41:58
  Speaker 6: I think there will be a large deflationary effect where
• 2:42:01
  Speaker 6: products are going to get cheaper and the quality of
• 2:42:03
  Speaker 6: life will go up because more people will be able
• 2:42:05
  Speaker 6: to buy cheaper things. And if you're living on $ 10, 000
• 2:42:09
  Speaker 6: a year, you're going to be able to live really
• 2:42:10
  Speaker 6: well in the coming years because of AI. But because
• 2:42:14
  Speaker 6: people will be able to set up businesses easier, like
• 2:42:17
  Speaker 6: craft tables, handmade things, people setting up businesses, it will
• 2:42:21
  Speaker 6: allow a rejuvenation of creative endeavors and people with money
• 2:42:27
  Speaker 6: or people who are making money in the middle income
• 2:42:29
  Speaker 6: and above, middle class income and above, will yearn for
• 2:42:32
  Speaker 6: handmade things. And because it's so easy to start these businesses,
• 2:42:36
  Speaker 6: it's the same thing with people who have money now.
• 2:42:39
  Speaker 6: All my friends who have money now have classic cars.
• 2:42:42
  Speaker 6: A lot of them have lots of classic cars. They
• 2:42:43
  Speaker 6: have handmade things, handmade furniture, all of these things. I
• 2:42:47
  Speaker 6: think the market is going to get flooded because people
• 2:42:49
  Speaker 6: are going to be so sick of highly stylized AI
• 2:42:52
  Speaker 6: making everything look awesome. I think it's much more likely
• 2:42:55
  Speaker 6: that in 10 years, If you and your wife and
• 2:42:58
  Speaker 6: myself and my wife are going to go out, we're
• 2:42:59
  Speaker 6: going to go to a regional theater house and watch
• 2:43:01
  Speaker 6: Hamlet or some play or something like that. Yes, that
• 2:43:04
  Speaker 6: will start with people with more money. But as more
• 2:43:07
  Speaker 6: theater houses pop up and more creative endeavors, I think
• 2:43:09
  Speaker 6: people are going to be able to get creatively back
• 2:43:11
  Speaker 6: into things. And AI, in my estimation, will exist as
• 2:43:15
  Speaker 6: like a utility in your house. They're trying to not
• 2:43:18
  Speaker 6: do that in ways that we've talked about. But a
• 2:43:23
  Speaker 6: good output for AI is it becomes a water heater
• 2:43:25
  Speaker 6: in your house. You have your own personal GPU that
• 2:43:28
  Speaker 6: you do your own training or your own things on
• 2:43:30
  Speaker 6: or it does your bills for you. It takes care
• 2:43:31
  Speaker 6: of the doldrums of life and it can do all
• 2:43:34
  Speaker 6: of these things for you. It's ran locally. It's not
• 2:43:36
  Speaker 6: something that you go to open AI for or you
• 2:43:39
  Speaker 6: go to a large company, name your large AI company.
• 2:43:44
  Speaker 6: A good output from AI would be we have these
• 2:43:48
  Speaker 6: open weighted systems that are available to everyone. You buy
• 2:43:51
  Speaker 6: your GPUs. It goes in your basement. Your data never
• 2:43:54
  Speaker 6: leaves your home. You're not out training some other company's AI.
• 2:43:58
  Speaker 6: It all gets done regionally, and it handles your bills
• 2:44:00
  Speaker 6: for you. It does your bank account. It does all
• 2:44:02
  Speaker 6: of these things.
• 2:44:02
  Speaker 1: That's a very rose-colored glasses view.
• 2:44:04
  Speaker 3: It is.
• 2:44:04
  Speaker 1: It is. But I see where the human thing, like
• 2:44:09
  Speaker 1: human-created stuff is going to be more valuable. That's the
• 2:44:12
  Speaker 1: best possible best-case scenario.
• 2:44:14
  Speaker 6: And people will be able to afford things. If you're
• 2:44:16
  Speaker 6: not making a lot of money and you don't have
• 2:44:18
  Speaker 6: a lot of economic output, you're going to be able
• 2:44:21
  Speaker 6: to live very well.
• 2:44:22
  Speaker 1: I think. Well, we'll see if we don't get killed
• 2:44:24
  Speaker 1: by the robots.
• 2:44:25
  Speaker 6: If we don't get killed by the robots. I mean,
• 2:44:26
  Speaker 6: I just, I don't see a path to sentience with
• 2:44:29
  Speaker 6: AI in its current form today, I guess is my big.
• 2:44:33
  Speaker 1: That's another conversation that we're going to have to have
• 2:44:35
  Speaker 1: when we have more time. Okay. That's a long one.
• 2:44:37
  Speaker 6: I didn't think there'd be a second time. So now
• 2:44:39
  Speaker 6: I believe.
• 2:44:40
  Speaker 1: You when you say that there's a third time. Let's
• 2:44:41
  Speaker 1: definitely do it again.
• 2:44:43
  Speaker 6: I really appreciate you having me here.
• 2:44:44
  Speaker 4: My pleasure, brother.
• 2:44:45
  Speaker 1: It's always great to talk to you. You're a fascinating guy.
• 2:44:47
  Speaker 6: If I can do the obligatory question. So Spartan Forge,
• 2:44:52
  Speaker 6: my company, we've released two Hunt Plus updates, tons of
• 2:44:56
  Speaker 6: UI updates, UX, tons of features. We're about to release
• 2:44:59
  Speaker 6: that thermal thing that I just talked about before. We've
• 2:45:02
  Speaker 6: got CarPlay. We've done a lot of things. We've grown
• 2:45:04
  Speaker 6: a ton. And there's too many features for me to
• 2:45:08
  Speaker 6: go into there. But we just produced a film on
• 2:45:12
  Speaker 6: YouTube about an engineer in our company who's also a
• 2:45:15
  Speaker 6: gunsmith called Old Soul. We're doing a third one about
• 2:45:18
  Speaker 6: my cabin today. That I purchased back and having my
• 2:45:22
  Speaker 6: family out there. And we're going to have some veterans
• 2:45:24
  Speaker 6: out there and raise the money.
• 2:45:25
  Speaker 1: On the Spartan Forge YouTube channel?
• 2:45:26
  Speaker 6: Yeah, on the Spartan Forge YouTube channel. And so we're
• 2:45:28
  Speaker 6: going to do one about my dad's cabin coming up here.
• 2:45:30
  Speaker 6: And we've got some great companies. Hoyt is sponsoring it.
• 2:45:33
  Speaker 6: VPA Archery. Have you shot VPAs before?
• 2:45:36
  Speaker 1: Sure.
• 2:45:36
  Speaker 6: Oh, you have? Yeah, yeah. Best broadheads. I love those broadheads.
• 2:45:40
  Speaker 1: They make the archery country broadheads.
• 2:45:42
  Speaker 6: Yes. Oh, my God, dude. I have been aiming for
• 2:45:44
  Speaker 6: shoulder blades. With those things on does and bucks because
• 2:45:48
  Speaker 6: you can just double shoulder blade an animal and drop it.
• 2:45:50
  Speaker 1: It's a great broadhead.
• 2:45:51
  Speaker 6: It's a great broadhead. So VPA, Azio Camo is another one.
• 2:45:56
  Speaker 6: And my buddy Joe runs Azio Camo. These companies are
• 2:46:00
  Speaker 6: sponsoring us to produce these films. And we're going to
• 2:46:04
  Speaker 6: do a coffee table book with it. But we're trying
• 2:46:06
  Speaker 6: to get into reminding people why we hunt and why
• 2:46:10
  Speaker 6: we're out here doing these crazy things. And it's not
• 2:46:12
  Speaker 6: about bloodlust or killing. It's about the joy of having
• 2:46:16
  Speaker 6: a backstrap with your kids at the table. Like, you know,
• 2:46:18
  Speaker 6: up until we run out of deer meat, most of
• 2:46:20
  Speaker 6: my kids' diet is deer meat. And it's about that
• 2:46:23
  Speaker 6: coming of age and getting back to our roots and
• 2:46:25
  Speaker 6: engaging that circuitry that we talked about before. And as
• 2:46:28
  Speaker 6: paradoxical as it sounds, I'm hoping to help people do
• 2:46:30
  Speaker 6: that through an application. But yeah, we're producing a lot
• 2:46:33
  Speaker 6: of stuff. And it's also just reminding hunters why we hunt.
• 2:46:37
  Speaker 6: It's not just about the big racks and the bloodlust.
• 2:46:40
  Speaker 6: It's about food and tribe and shared heritage. So thank
• 2:46:44
  Speaker 6: you again.
• 2:46:45
  Speaker 1: Beautiful. My pleasure, brother. Thank you. Good to see you. Bye, everybody.