Latest / The MeatEater Podcast / Ep. 122: Live from Denver

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Ep. 122: Live from Denver · The MeatEater Podcast

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: This is an eater podcast coming at you shirtless, severely
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: bug bitten in my case, underwear listening. Un don't make
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: you eat podcast. You can't predict anything, all right, everyone,
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: thanks for coming out. Man, I'm gonna I'm gonna break
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: with protocol a little bit and do intros um. Thank you,
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: thank you, thanks, Yeah, honest, the laughing eagle down man.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: Uh Cody Louhan, who describes himself earlier as having come
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: from let me get this right, come from a ranching
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: and Olympic ski jumping family. Uh, this guy could do
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: what you mind? This guy competition but shure, sure, this guy.
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: You can't see it. He has a hat, he has
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: a farmer's tan on his head. He has the pale
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: lines of his hat stitching wedding. Ryan Callahan from all
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: the way, all the way from First Light World headquarters
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: in catch Him, Idaho, and then Colorado's own Brodie Henderson
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: who's on the mediator crew. Brody's a semi retired fly
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: fishing guide. Yeah that's good way putting, good way of
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: putting it. But yeah, man, thanks for coming out. And
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: I come through uh Denver a fair bit. Last time
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: I came through here, I had one of you guys,
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: big giant held your box, which I took back home
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: with me. Um earlier though another time I went to
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: has anyone who ever been to the lynden Meyer the
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: Lindenmeyer site, you know about this? Okay? So like if
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: you go way back in time, so like the first
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: culture of American hunters that that emerge as like a
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: distinctly American culture was this place called this group called
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: the Clovis Hunters, and they were ice age hunters, so
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: they hunted mammoths and short faced bears, and they were
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: widely dispersed, and they developed this very distinctive projectile point
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: called the Clovis Point. It's regarded as a diagnostic projectile
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: point where if you find one and look at it,
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: you're like, that is thirteen thousand plus years old, and
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: that's who made that thing, was the Clovis. Now, around
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: the time when Clovis came is debated about how this happened.
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: But all that mega fauno, the mammoths, Masodon, short faced bears,
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: you know, nine genera of large mammals all vanished kind
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: of contemporanis with the arrival of cloth of Us and
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: out of this came all these different cultures, and the
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: culture that emerged here where we are now was this
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: culture called the Fulsome culture, and so most of the
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: ice age stuff was all gone, and Fulsome was a
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: group of slightly post ice age hunters from around twelve
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: thousand years ago who basically hunted the same stuff we
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: hunt today because all that crazy stuff was gone. Lynden
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: Meyer is the second most famous Fulsome site. The most
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: famous Folsom site is in northeast New Mexico, and it's
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: called the Folsome site, and you're Folsom, New Mexico. And
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: that's where Folsom was identified. And they had driven uh
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: thirteen bison Antiquoius up into a dead end canyon and
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: killed him with adeladdles and butchered them all on site,
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: and it was a temporary encampment. Was crazy about lynden Meyer.
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: Lynden Meyer, just north here is the oldest known place
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: that we have which would have been what we now
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: think of as a ron avou of hunters. It seems
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: as though at times, for some unknown reason, hundreds of
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: falsome hunters would show up at the linden Meyer site,
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: so many that their their projectile points kind of distinctive
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: as regarded as the most difficult projectile point to make,
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: because they would knock a channel out of each face
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: of their projectile point, and they would have they would
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: have that thing. So you've got a spearhead, a foreshaft,
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: and there's even a camel bone for foreshaft that came
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: out of linnen Meyer. So they were maybe dabbling with
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: some stuff that's now extinct, but they would deal these
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: like little fluted points and they'd have them in a thing.
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: And that flute, that channel that they would knock out
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: is distinctive of a falsome point, and that the Lindenmeyer
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: site they have excavated one thousand channels, so that many
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: guys making these very specialized points there when they were there.
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: They ate jack rabbit, cotton tail rabbit, bison, they ate venison.
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: Oftentimes they'll be eating turtle and they eat turtle at
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: linden Meyer. So great generalist hunters and people often wonder like, well,
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: how could it have been that these people who lived
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: at such low population densities, how could they have all
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: found each other? And why did they come together? And
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: it's funny because they had they brought to Lindenmeyer site.
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: They had red ochre. They came out of northern Wyoming,
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: and they had toolstone. They came out of the Texas Panhandle.
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  Speaker 1: In it's regarded that the folsome hunter has lived at
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  Speaker 1: such low densities. It doesn't make sense that they did
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: hand to hand trading. There probably wasn't enough them to
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: have trade channels. It's thought that because they had great
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: fidelity to stone sources, they seem to be more associated
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: with quarries where they would get the very particular type
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: of rocks that they like to use to make projectile points.
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: They had more fidelity to the stone source than they
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: did to their hunting grounds. But they liked linden Meyer
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: maybe because you're kind of in the mountains, you're kind
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: of on the plains. You have the foothills, there's a
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: lot of stuff to hunt, and there's this big, multi
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: story geologic feature there that's like a red and white
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: bands of rock, and you can see this thing from
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: eighteen miles away. There's a theory that you could say
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: to a dude down in the Texas Panhandle and ice
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: Age America, just walk up the edge of the mountains
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: and when you see right that's where we'll meet in
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: five years. And somehow it would work out that these
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: mass accumulations of folsom hunters would gather at the linden
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: Meyer site. So I bring that up only because, um,
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: here you have their generalist hunters. They eat a wide
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: array of things that people might now regard as a
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: little unusual, and they would gather under this large structure.
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: And here we all are again to night twelve thousand seven,
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: dred years later, gathered in the Oriental Theater of Denver.
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: So welcome. Uh, There's there's a couple of housekeeping issues
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: we have to take care of. Uh. Is a guy
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: named Dan and his wife Ashley and his daughter's scout
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: want to wish him a happy Father's Day? So who's that? Callian?
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: There's a company I gotta finish up? Uh? Callahan just
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: got it. Was telling about a chicker bite on his scroll.
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: But I told you that happens to your confidence. Uh.
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: We've talked many times about cleaning morrell mushrooms. Now, Brody,
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: can I tell me this guy was roughly where you live?
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: Tell where you live? Just south of Steamboat Stagecoach. Has
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: anyone here? Has anyone here found a Morrell within Let's say,
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: what's the fair radius that you would say there are
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: has anyone sawnd a Morrell within fifty miles of Brody's house?
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: Really that? Uh? Do you guys find Morrells in Colorado?
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: Eastern Colorado, but not up in the mountains, not in
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: the mountain point being Callahan. We've talked at length about
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: cleaning Morrell's. A chef wants you to know that he
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: washes them, does wash them to get all the bugs
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: and dirt off, dries them in a salad spinner A
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: bunch of times, leaves the water that falls out of
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: the salad spinner in the bottom of the salad spinner,
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: places it in this fridge for two days. It somehow
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: holds enough humidity and the fridge is climate is such
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: that when you pull the Morrell out of that salad spinner,
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: it is indistinguishable from when you picked it out of
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: the dirt. I just want you to know that another
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: guy wants to know this. He's trying to figure out
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: when he dies. Go ahead, and he would tell this
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: chef that he is losing mushroom. He's beating that mushroom
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: up fire too much. Okay, that means that now this
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: Morrell conversation will have to continue into future. I'm trying.
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to take care of a couple of things
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: just need to be put to rest. House clean, the housekeeping,
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: keep it going. Uh. The guy wanted to know this.
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: We had talked a lot about. I talked about what
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: I want to happen to my carcass when I die.
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: He has it that he wants to be cremated, but
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: then his wife is supposed to take the ash and
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: have it made into clay pigeons and then hold a
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: clay pigeon shoot where his friends come and shoot him
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: out of the sky. So he goes on to say,
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: I'm not even sure if there's a company that does that.
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: Maybe after first flight cal you could get into that business. Yeah,
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: always thinking. Uh, another question, and this is pertinent for
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: something else. Why blouch? Where did blouch come from? J honest?
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: Can you give background on blouch? It's just how you
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: say boom or bang in Latvian and Latvian I've been
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: when I learned from Janice's father Joannice, all Lavians are
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: named honest, Yeah, they're true, like janice Is father Johannest.
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: When I heard the word blouch from whom it became
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: my favorite word, and everyone assumed that it's b l
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: o u c h and and Yanic's clarified, that's not it.
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: It's b l o u k S with a a
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: u k s a u a s with a blank.
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: So if you go and look, we're we're we have
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: our special blouch t shirts Meteor Podcast blout shirts. It
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: is not misspelled. It's spelled the right way. Also you'll
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: find our posters. And there's a story about the poster.
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: One day, I was talking about if I was a painter,
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: what I would paint. Is a scene that was described
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: to me by our friend Brandon Butler, which is he
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: was watching a turkey gobble on a cold morning and
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: he described how in that turkey would rip out a gobble,
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: you would see steam come out of his beak. And
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: I was so moved by that I said that if
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: I was a painter, I would make that painting. And
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: so we had a fan make a special turkey steam
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: breathing gobble turkey And that is the story behind that
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: special commemorative me Eater Podcast steam Breathing Turkey poster. So
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: that is explained. Now moving on in another thing. Let
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: me see, I want to make sure this is our
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: last squirrel keeping are let up, this is the last
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: girl keeping, last piece of housekeeping, and this is another
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: thing we really need to put the rest. A long
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: time ago, I argued that when someone says like things
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: got off of Western, right, which I've never heard. I
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: grew up in Michigan. But if you were like, things
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: got awful Western there, and I said, yeah, like squirrely,
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: and people wrote in a guy rolling, He's like no,
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: because Western there is an implied physical danger in Western
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: that is absent from squirrely. So I did a long
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: correction where I said, I stand corrected, Um, squirrely is
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: like He used example, like Jana stepped on an arrow,
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: the arrow now shoots squirrely. Okay uh, he used example
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: cal hand hit on a guy's girlfriend in a bar.
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: Things got Western. But he but this guy writes and
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: he says the correction needs to be corrected. He's from
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: South Florida. He says, in the motor sports world, squirrely
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: damn sure has a sense of physical danger involved. When
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: you're going down the road and your bike gets squirrely,
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: watch out, it's not good. And he also says that
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: he introduced me to a term which is squid, which
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: is a squirrely kid. And another guy wrote in to
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: wind up saying that he says, in addition to Western
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: and squirrely, you need to be aware of two terms
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: from the Northeast, which is snotty and sporty. He goes
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: on to explay he's a he's a turn works largely
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: in the legal cannabis market right now, so he's very busy,
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: and he says that if c's pick up to a
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: level where it's just you're uncomfortable, but it's not perilous,
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: one would describe that as being a bit snotty. If
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: things pick up from there and you really need to
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: be paying attention, things have now gotten sporty. He also
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: uses sporty when describing heated professional discussions. That's the housekeeping portion.
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: So thank you. Baron with us now to get into
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: some of the meat here, um trying to get how
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: best to bring this up. There's something we need to resolve. Okay,
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna do this. The five people present up here
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: on stage to start off, We're gonna handle like this.
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: Is there a grizzly bear in Colorado right now. Okay,
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: if if you believe, yes, raise your hand. Oh all right,
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: there's a there's a little background to this. We've we've
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: been quibbling or getting snotty or getting western over the
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: past couple of days. Um, I will say, I don't
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: know if there's a grizz in Colorado here today, but
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: I can say unequivocally, Um, some of you know my
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: background in the in the woods and otherwise, but unequivocally,
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: I witnessed a young male bore grizzly in northern Colorado
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: last year, just a few miles south of the Wyoming border,
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: out in some stage brush. And uh, that's I stand,
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: That's where I stand, And that's fantastic. Yeah. So it's
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: kind of like, can we go into a little background. Yeah,
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: let's go a little background. But let's go, let's go
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: deep dive. Let's do it. Okay, deep dive. Let me
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: consult my stuff here, because I want to give you guys,
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: like a little background on the issue. Um. Well, I
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: should point out I usually like to point out when
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: it was a good transition. You remember earlier talking about
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: how the fulsome guys brought Ochre down from Wyoming. Huh,
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: I remember that vaguely grizzlies coming down from Wyoming like
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: that transition. So where are you leading? This has the
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: ochre broder You're saying yes, Say like, what do you
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: all famous grizzly bears from the old days? Sharon Common
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: Old Old f from was the last bear in Utah?
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: You know, New Mexico had an old grizzly of some
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: name Old Mose, Old Most, Old Silver, now Old Mose.
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: I want to talk about Old Mose a little bit
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: because Brady Brodio, we're talking about Old Mose recently, who
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: met his end in four uh. Old Mose was a bear.
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: His name comes from the fat that he mosied around.
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: And you'll find when you're looking at like old famous
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: bear stories like the Last Grizzly here in the Last
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: Grizzly there they sharing common extraordinarily long life span where
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: Old Most seems to have terrified people for forty years.
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: And to account for the fact that he was terrifying
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: people across the entirety of the state, the same rascally
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: bear that refused to be caught, he someone had to
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: account for, like how he could be everywhere all at once,
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: So he naturally became Old Mose as in the Mosying
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: around Bear and His Old Moses legend Star is a
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: guy named Jason Jacob Radcliffe who's out hunting deer and elk,
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: gets mauled by a bear in eighteen three. His buddies
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: find him. He's dying in the woods. They load him
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: on a horse, bring him down to a ranch, and
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: he expires with probably my favorite dying words of all time,
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: which is boys, don't hunt that bear. And this was
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: down in the Arkansas River training. Okay, So people then
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: don't take his advice and they just start hunting that bear,
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: and every bear that anyone goes near it turns out
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: to be Old Mose. And there's a guy where at
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: a point there's a skeleton turns up and there's a skeleton,
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: some boots, some spurs, and a car bean and the
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: bones have been gnawed on, and that death is abscribed
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: to Old most of course Bention. In the spring of
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: n four, a couple of guys, so this is a
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: year after, like this is the year after the Right
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: Brothers had their first sustained flight and the heavier than
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: air vehicle to set it in time and four, a
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: guy named Wharton Pig and James Anthony gets some hounds
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: and they get after old mos and they catch it
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: and it it turns into a very squirrely, very Western shootout.
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: Anthony later describes hitting the old moles behind the shoulder,
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: and he used the terms, I still don't know what
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: it means. What's my new favorite term. He hits it
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: in the shoulder, and the bullet lodged up against on
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: the other side a place that he describes as the
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: sticking place, which like the shoulder blade, maybe that muscle
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: behind the shore, like a spot. Do what you think
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: it wouldn't that be like like if you're gonna knife
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: a hog or you know what I mean, the sticking place,
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: that's the place where you stick that pig. That's gotta
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: be right here. Yeah, yeah, I thought he meant that
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: there's like a spot that he finds that his bullets
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: wind up in without exiting the sticking place, but he
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: means like the entry point place would be a great
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: name for a bar. Actually, yeah, that definitely trumps um
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: No West bott My brother wanted to name one the
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: repeat offender um but uh yeah, and the sticking place
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: that's gotta be The sticking place means so so dies
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: old Mos and kind of like so dies a legend
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: and then it winds up being that the last bear vanishes.
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: Let me just get make sure I'm getting my facts straight. Here,
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: the last bear in Colorado up unto a point, the
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: last bear was what years everybody the last one when
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: they think they killed the last one was the government.
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: So that was like a known thing where a government
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: trapper goes out and on contract kills one stand Juan
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: where they were known to be like the last holdout
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: a bear of grizzlies in Colorado. And then somehow weirdly
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: and this is where this is where Cody, this is
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: where like this is the thing that starts to add up.
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: What this is where it starts to add up where
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: it gets squirrel because so last grizzlies gone. But in
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: nineteen seventy nine, long comes Ed Wiseman. Who can you
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: tell the ball of Ed Wiseman. He's walking down a
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: trail again the sand Juan in the San juans Alu.
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: Do basic, man, what's seventy twenty seven years after the
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: last Grizzli has been killed, here's Ed. He's archery hunting apparently,
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: And I believe what's the wilderness area. Now I don't
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: think it was. Then it may have been, but um,
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: the story is obviously convoluted, as these kind of things go.
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: But um, Supposedly he gets jumped by a grizzly and
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: manages too And this is like before archery hunters were
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: commonly using compound bow. So he's hunting with a he's
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: hunting the rieker bow wood arrows, gets jumped by angry
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: grizzly and uh, manages to kill it by stabbing it
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: with the arrow and in the heart, like I mean
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: like place place, and uh, you know, they investigate the
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: whole thing because some people later claimed that he shot
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: the bear. His hunting partners claimed that, yeah, his hunting
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: partners some and I don't this is just internet lord,
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: But like some of his hunter partners later said no,
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: no, no no, no, he got onto it in the meadow,
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: put a stock on and narrowed it right. But he
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: passed a lie detector tests when they passed, and no
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: one contested, Like, there's no one that contested the legitimacy
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: of the place. It was confirmed by I believe confirmed
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: by by biologists as at grizzly, and they went and
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: searched the whole state after that. I was five years old. Yeah,
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: and they launched a very thing to add in about
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: this bear ship. It was so it was old, arthritic,
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: its claws and teeth were war down. But but it
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: had at some point it's life bore young, right, so
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: it had been a reproductively viable bear. Where we sit
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: right now, the closest grizzlies are two miles away, right,
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: probably over two hundred from here, the southern end of
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: the wind River Range. So here you have a twenty
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: five year absence. Is that what that math comes out to?
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: A seven year absence from from the last bear? No, no, no,
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: I'm saying that first absence and then there's one bamn miraculous. Now,
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: like some some writers get involved in this, right like
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: Rick Bass did a did a book about it, and
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: David Peterson did a book about the search. But no
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: one's ever then turned up proof. Now there's a ton here.
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: But I just want to throw this out real quick. Uh.
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: A bowl hunter from Australia named Adam Greentree saw one
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: last year. He's in a tough spot though not being Americans,
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: in a tough spot because like if I was in Australia, Okay.
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: Let's say I go to Australia and I'm like, oh, hey,
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: by the way, the wombats aren't distributed. How you guys
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: understand wombats to be distributed? You can imagine the degree
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: to which right the resistance I'm gonna get. So he's like,
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: it's like a it's a tough stance to take as
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: someone who can't represent lifelong exposure to to grizzlies and
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: black bears, um walking through the single little more so
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: that an exhaustive search, the consensus, the scholarly academic consensus
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: is no. But people routinely come forward, and oftentimes credible
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: people come forward, and you're like, I saw one, right,
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: absolutely incredible. I have the cross he's got, he's got
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: a sunburned like, he's got a farmer's stand on the
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: top of his head. The guy, the guy spends time
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: out in the woods. Now you get into like, why
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: does this matter? And I think that so give your
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: stance on why it matters? How do you do? How
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: down far down the rabbit hole do we want to go? Um?
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: I think I think it matters from a few standpoints.
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think people have the literally just a
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: basic right to know, you know, if these animals are here,
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: I think there is a potential safety issue going forward. Um.
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: I don't think there's many of these bears, but you know,
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: we call it kind in my world, the Sagebrush Telegram,
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: which is a lot of the you know, communications between
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: ranchers and people who live in rural communities, and so,
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: you know, conspiracy theories run rampant no matter where you are,
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: especially when it comes to Apex predators, wolves, wolverines and
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: now grizzlies apparently and so um anywhere where where I
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: thought I saw where I saw this bear is um.
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: Come to find out three other families had apparently seen
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: the same animal within like a five or six mile
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: radius within a two week span of when I saw it.
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: So I think people have we need to know if
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: these animals are actually coming down through here, especially with
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: what's going on with now that the state is finally
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: admitted that we have an established wolf population here in College,
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: which was used to be only Cook said that. So
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: they haven't admitted that there's an established wolf population, they've
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: admitted that there's wolves traveling into the state. Know, I
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: believe there was, um because we had some of the
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: wolf meetings. I'm also from old Steamboat Springs, UM. We
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: had for the wolf meetings, there was a statement, and
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: perhaps I'm wrong, but I do believe that it said
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: that it was an established wolf Colorlation Parks and Wildlife
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: guy that we talked to today. So the wolves are
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: transient only, but a bunch of them, but we see
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: them there. It's a lot of them. So I think,
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: you know, in the same breath, I think it's important
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: for people to know what what's going on here in Colorado.
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: We've had a confirmed wolverine, We've got wolves. What's keeping
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: the grizz from crossing? This was a confirmed wolverine in Colorado.
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: There was the one that ended in the North Dakota
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: of the ranch. He was, yeah, exactly, yeah, But you know,
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: we've talked about before, but a wolf came out of
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: the Michigan's Upper Peninsula got killed in Missouri, a known wolf,
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: like an identified wolf. So things will pack up and leave. Absolutely,
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: So is it possible that grizzlies are trickling them matriculating
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: into Colorado. I think absolutely, very many, as far as
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: you're right to know. Though Colorado has a lot of
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: black bears runs the black bears so the fact that
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: you know a grizzly bears out there, is that gonna
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: change your behavior at all? No, I don't think it's
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: gonna change your behavior. You always need to be be
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: you know, well exactly. But I mean in terms you'll
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: be carrying track and poles. You'll be tracking, yeah, carry
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: good poking stick, a good poking stick. Um, you know bears.
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: But I mean, like you, you know, I spent a
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: lot of time around black bears and seeing a lot
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: of really big black bears going their graves, and so
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: I like to think that I've been around a lot
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: of grizzlies in my guiding days in Alaska. So I
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: like to think I'm a somewhat decent credible witness when
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: I see these things. And then when I see a picture,
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: and when Buddy shows me a picture of a bit bear,
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: that you show me that picture yesterday pictures. But here's
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: the thing, I didn't take the picture right and I
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: can show use my phone right now, and I be like,
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: look at alose Din. We had giant Lincoln in Colorado.
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: What do we have. We're on stage coach yesterday. I've
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: gotten this picture. But and and that's the you know,
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: that's the tough thing about saying that you saw an
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: animal like that in a state where they don't exist,
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: you walk out on that limb and go on a
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: live podcast and talk about it. So I've always sympathized
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: with those guys, because oftentimes those guys are not being right.
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: How many people said, how many people try to explain
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: away every mountain lion in the eastern US as an
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: escape pet. We're soon you have what must be like
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: this very thriving industry of mountain lion owners that no
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: one really knew about, who are habitually cutting loose their pets,
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: drop off the park man and after a while people
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: had to come to terms with it doesn't make sense,
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: but some number of these things must be packing up
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: camp in the Black Hills of South Dakota and deciding
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: to go many hundreds of miles relatively undetected. So sure, man,
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: and and I want to clarify, like my perspective on it.
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: I like I want to like sort of like nuance
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: out my position on it. I think that I take
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: see it's so complicated, it's inexpressible by the English language.
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: If someone right now said, hey, do you hear the
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: news um, a car hit a grizzly in Colorado, I
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: wouldn't even be a teensy bit surprised because from one
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: of those things to travel two miles, I don't want
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: them can turn up in Colorado wouldn't surprise me in
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: the least. What I don't like, though, is the idea
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: that there's that that there's this known breeding population that
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: vested into that there's people with vested in rest and
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: concealing the idea of this thing that it's like it's
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: meant to be kept secret because in this day and age,
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: like secrets don't get kept well. When they were down
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: to having they were down to having only a handful
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: of eat, like the Florida cougar, they were down to
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: having a handful, but you couldn't keep from getting hit
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: on the road. Like things just have a way of
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: turning up. And this is like my one of many,
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: but kind of my favorite anti bigfoot argument would be
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: that if you look at the way rare species just
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: get killed and turned up dead and get shot by
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: people whose livestock is get attack, getting attacked, chasing their kids,
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: they shoot it, it gets hit by cars, it just dies,
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: It turns up dead. In the pond, whatever happens. It's like,
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: even when we're down to like having some known quantity things,
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: we can't stop them from dying all over the place.
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: So that when people talk to these wildlife populations that
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: there's no carcasses turning up anywhere. It becomes like hard
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: to leave that the things that the necessary things are
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: in place to do it. And the idea that oh
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: they if they catch m Colorado, they bring them back
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: to Whelming, how is that going over with the state
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: government and Whelming those guys are doing their damn is
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: to get rid of a handful of Callahan proposed the
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: idea of an underground railroad for grizzly bears. Bears, take him,
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: take him back. I do like there's plenty of unknown
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: out there with tons of large mammals that we feel
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: extremely familiar with. Like, look at all the new data
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: that's showing up on mule be your migration corridors, Like
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: like we just confirmed the longest mule be your migration
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: And that's an animal that most people would consider themselves
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: extremely familiar with, the root of which is now looking
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: to perhaps get riddled with. Yeah, things that went then
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: destroy that migration corridor. Um. But it to jump to
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: the point is like, look at you know, all the
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: data that we're getting off of these GPS collars. UM.
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: A great one is Uh they had a colored sal
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: grizz in Montana. Um. She covered an incredible amount of
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: country and did some absolutely bizarre things including, Uh, Flathead
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: Lake in Montana is a huge body of water. It's
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: seven miles long, two and a half miles wide at
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: its whitest point, and this grizz swam out to the
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: dead center of the lake, turned around, swam back. Nobody
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: ever saw this. I just wanted to see what was
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: out there. No people, there's no eyewitness No, it was
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: just tracking data. And you know, we never nobody would
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: ever be like, oh, yeah, the grizz is just gonna
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: swim out the middle of the night, in the middle
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: of the lake, paddle around for a little bit. And
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: then they do that all the time. So there is
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: quite a bit unknown that I think does does go on? Yeah,
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: and that's what makes it kind of beautiful. And like
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: my goal, and we we've talked a thousand times too,
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: my goal is to and most of the guys that
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: hang out with agree with it would be like my
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: goal be that we would recover grizzlies and all suitable
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: habitat the agreement falls apart when we discuss like we'll
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: define suitable. There's there's a lot of people who know
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: this issue very well, and they say, like, we've kind
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: of done it except for the exception of one spot,
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: perhaps two, and they're not here. Nobody likes raccoons and
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: their garbage cans in San Francisco. When it's a six
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: pound raccoon, it's probably gonna be a bit more of
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: an issue. Yeah, it's slightly unnerving and being with your kids, like,
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: you know, every wants to get their kids involved in
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: the auto doors, to be out with little kids in
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: places that have like a like high densities of grizzlies,
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: it's like this added thing. But you know what, in
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: of Alaska, it's like they're dealing with it just fine.
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: There's people up there, not many, but they're right there.
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: So here's a startling grizzly statistic that, uh, the show
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: is kind of the power of misguided humans. Um, let
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: me find this. Between eighteen fifty and nineteen twenty, grizzlies
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: were extirpated from ninety five of their historic range in
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: the lower forty eight. Then from nineteen twenty to nineteen
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: seventy they were extirpated from half of that. So you've
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: got them whittled down to being on a couple percent
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: a couple percentage points of their native range, right dance
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: like we we had we did. We did a the
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: same to Elk, and we've now recovered Elk on of
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: their native range. We're still absent from nine of their
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: native range, and we're still trying to make progress in that.
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: And I just cannot as much to understand the complexities,
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: the political aspects of it, what it means for the
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: egg industry, everyone, As much as I see that, I'm like,
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: I can't. I just can't accept that's something that as
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: human beings in America that we can be okay with
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: having something like that on the edge. So I just,
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: you know, I'm not saying here, but if I did
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: hear that someone turned one up in a definite sense,
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't get that feeling like, oh no, I'd kind
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: of like almost a little bit secretly be like it's
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: like bringing wild back. It's like going to buy some
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: chalks up head Knock and Yellowstone kind of like didn
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: the lady just get that's the most common yellow stone injury.
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: I think the lady just got gored today. Yesterday yellows
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: when I was reacharch in my buffalo. Look it was
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: talking about um a very common, a very common animal
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: related injury. There would be a puncture wound to the
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: upper buttocks. Yeah. States, So speaking, going back to grizzly
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: bearris and populations, which states now have u and restoration
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: that species? Which states now do we now have grizzly
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: bear hunts coming on board here? Well? Possibly too, Possibly
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: two states will initiate grizzly hunts. Possibly, you know, I
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: say possibly because who knows where litigation is. Co might
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: do a tag and what only might do up to
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: a couple of dozen with female quotas built into it.
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: And then they have they we've identified like recovery areas.
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: So when we talk about like if we say that
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: we should recover them when all suitable habitat um, there's
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: this there's this idea of what those student habitats are.
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: Northern cascades. So in in northern Washington you have the
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: own a cascade ecosystem. And Secretary Zinkie recently came out
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: and declared his support for recovering bears in Northern Cascades
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: right now, in the Northern Cascades in the US, there
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: maybe maybe is one or two grizzlies there right now.
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: They flirt with the border. Cavney Yak has fifty yep.
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: Sell Kirk's eight. Sel Kirk's have eight. Northern Continental Divide
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: Northern Continental Divide has over a thousand Greater Yellsone ecosystem
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: has eight hundred, possibly proceeding more. In all these places.
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: Because of how econom it's usually the number is usually
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: the minimum, the upper end of the population, we don't
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: really know. And then there's the one spot that we
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: say we could get them or could have them and don't.
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: And that's the bit route. Well, the Yak as well,
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: I mean the Yak Cabney Yak Wilderness is I believe
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: the least visited wilderness area in the lower forty eight
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: uh rust to hunt black bears in Man, you'd like
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: stumble into grizzlies and it's only fifty of them. Yeah,
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: So I mean we've recorded fifty bears there or is
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: that an ext We've recorded x amount and extrapolated that
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: out to fifty. It's extrapolated out because what people are
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: Jerry looking at is you're looking at female home ranges
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: and then you kind of like, based off session mature
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: females how much area they need, you make these like
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: these basic map shapes where you put in like known females,
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: what would their range be, And then just from general dynamics,
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: you understand the ratio of cubs and males and you
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: model it out. It's not like someone goes on goes
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: one too, it gets the fifty when people have a birthday.
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: My kids like to go, are you on? Are you too?
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: And they called my older brother man, they get old
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: by the time they got up to the right number.
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: But yeah, they don't like they're not counting them. But
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: and you get into that area. And this is like
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: the last thing to say about with this idea of
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: like because like right now there's a lot of talk
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: where people in Colorado are toy with idea like do
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: we want to reintroduce wolves or let them trickle in
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: because there's different sort of like social tolerances right to
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: reintroduction and trickling in. And for a while people talked
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: about that will take grizzlies and cut grizzlies loosen the
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: bitter root. If we take them and reintroducement to the bit,
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: they're gonna have an experimental status so not regulated as
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: tightly because they were a reintroduction, and some grizzly advocates
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: feel that it's better, Well, let's just let them walk
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: in on their own, which is eventually gonna happen anyway,
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: because if they walk in on their own, they carry
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: with them full e es a protection. We had the idea,
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: we're just gonna make a barrel trap and puts them
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: in there, just to get the whole thing over with, right. Uh,
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: never got around to that, but it was like an
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: idea we toyed with was let's just push this along
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: and get it to his logical conclusion. But um, it's
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: it's like a thing that you guys wrestled with. And
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: someone said today that they're like a government agent was saying,
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: he's highly what was he saying, he doesn't think that
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: Colorado will do a wolf for introduction, right? Right? And
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: I don't want to say who said this, Well he
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: said parts and wildlife is off. But that's parts and wildlife.
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: That's not the people who are actively trying to move
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: towards reintroduction, he said. He said, Carl our Colorado parks
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: and wildlife. They show up on their own, They're welcome here. Yeah,
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: what's your taked? Yeah? But what did the guy say
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: to you recently? If you're a big game hunter? How
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: can you be if you're why be pro predator at all?
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: Because the more you know, the less predators, the more
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: big game we have to hunt as big game hunters.
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: What's your take? Hey, you know, it's a it's a
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: tough one. It's you know, I'm kind of a I'm
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: gonna take the easier rout being in between her here.
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: But I love having apex predators on one In one sense,
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: it's these big wild animals that are back in wild country.
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: That's there's nothing more beautiful that you can think of.
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: On the other hand, you think of the state of
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: our current mule your population in Colorado, and you think
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: of our elk population. We're always a winter or two
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: away from major winterkill. What happens if we have a
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: huge population apex better population explosion? You know, a couple
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: of big wolf packs step into your favorite elk hunting unit,
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: and then you have a winter kill on top of
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: that then than what than what's going on? Then all
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: of a sudden we have a big problem. So um,
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: you know, from a few different perspectives, not a problem
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: for the wolves, not a problem for the wolves. I mean,
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: Colorado was a if you look at yeah, if you
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: look at what we've got going on here in Colorado,
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: I mean this is the ideal target for wolves and
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: in grizzlies. I mean we're covered up with animals. Were
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: pretty special state. So selfishly, I I agree with that.
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: You know, I don't want these animals killing my dear
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: and elk and wiping out my herds. And maybe there's
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: a little ignorance in that statement. But on the other hand,
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: you know, I love wild these wild places and wild things,
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: so you know, you're damned if you do, and you're
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: damned if you don't. Yeah, I remember when elk, when
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: when wolves came into the areas that we hunt elk
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: after like what happened very quickly after the Yellowstone re introductions.
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: I remember a guy that we would bump into in
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: our elk hunting area. He would be he would kind
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: of like get worked up about it, but he'd be like,
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: you know, you gotta share though, gotta share, gotta share,
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: like walking them through. But the thing that I come
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: back to me and it's like you look into sort
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: of like you try to try to like look into
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: your own heart. And I remember the first wolf track
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: I saw a man, I was ecstatic, not for what
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: it meant, not like what is it gonna be down
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: the road for tag allocations, and but just in the
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: immediate moment, right in the immediate moment, there's sort of
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: this really satisfying like holy ship. That was the moment
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: I had last year. And when I take people to
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: hunt in Alaska, always the thing that they always say,
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: always I hope we see or a it's just like
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: always exactly And that's what's so funny. People travel to
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: Alaska going to jacks and going to the park as
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: in Frank Church Wilderness, Uh with the buddy mine is
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: working in there, the big outfit there's uh, he was
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: pretty fun. We're in this pup tent at the end,
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: there's like the big wall tent, nice wall tan, cooked tent.
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: There's a nice wall tan for the clients, another nice
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: wall tan for the clients. And then it's like you
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: guide bums figure it out, and uh that remudas out there.
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: Uh you know, kraal full hot fence of mules and horses,
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: and they're kind of talkative all night and they're pawing
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: the ground, frozen ground. You know, it's really loud, and
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: uh it's a full moon, just like you know you're
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: in a glowing tent in a full moon and can't sleep.
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: And uh, first wolf, How I ever heard wolf cuts
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: loose and everybody goes dead silent, And I would easily
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: trade a freezer full elk meat for that moment, you know,
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: I mean, that was a special, special moment. Another thing
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: I returned when I think about this, and I feel
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: that's the point I brought up before, is why, like
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: the guys that are just dead set anti predator across
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: the board, why do those guys all want to hunt
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: and lask it's a bad You wouldn't like it at all.
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: There's big stuff run around, all toothy, crazy stuff running
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: around everywhere. But I think that people would answer, is
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: there Alaska guards very jealously, jealously it's right to do
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: predator management. So they've got a nice balance. And I
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: think that some people fear, probably quite rightfully, so, some
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: people fear that if if wolves get very like heavily
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: established in Colorado, if you know, in in a decade
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: we're talking about grizzlies being like absolutely established in Colorado,
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: that there's the idea that that like politically and socially,
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: the state Fish and Game Agency isn't gonna have any
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: latitude to do management to to like factor in various
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: stakeholders in the conversation. I think if people, if people
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: knew that this will happen, these animals will come. When
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: they come, we will have management authority and we will
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: manage with deer hunters, elk hunters, all people in mind,
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: and find like a good balance. I think that people's
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: tensions wouldn't be as high. I mean, all they gotta
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: do is look to Montana, right, I mean, as as
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: has it been a doomsday scenario up there for you
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: hunting el not at all. And they got they got.
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: I mean they found as much as it was gonna
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: be that Montana having a wolf season was gonna be
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: the end of wolves, they found it ain't that easy.
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: Wolves do? They got smart? Yeah, I mean I don't
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: know what you're still finding out, Yeah, plenty, I've got
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: as good at elk hunting up there as I did
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: in Colorado, and there's this beautiful time in there where
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: people are so used to blaming wolves that they actually
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: ceased to hunt. And if you're out there hunting, it
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: is like the best elk hunting on the planet. And
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: all you have to do is be like, oh, yeah,
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: it's full of wolves. Oh. I've run into guys who
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: were like in their truck and had given up because
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: they caught the wolf track. You know what, that guy
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: would have given up no matter what, you give up
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: to his wife's man give up. It's like Psalm's gonna
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: make him give up. Uh dame, We else have anything
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: on the wolves or grizzlies. Yeah, you saw a grizzly
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: in Colorado. They are they're all named old something. Can
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: you name them, Cody? Oh, man, we'll call this one
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: the old New Hanski, the old lou john Ski. So oh,
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: keep it in the family. Name you name them after yourself. No,
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: I'm just trying to there's enough. What are you going
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: to name it? It's something like that, a ghost grizzly,
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: and you know it's an old ghost grizzly, except this
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: one wasn't old. C uh CPW Colorado, Parks and Wildlife.
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: They do have a form, right if you look at it,
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: Grizzly sighting for they have a grizzly sighting form, which
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: like if you got this, they don't have a big
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: foot sighting form? Do they bigfoots blurry? Right? Yeah, that
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: wasn't blurry. So there's like they got a form. Man,
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: there's a reason that people make forms. So if you
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: guys out there see one, go fill out the form.
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: And he said that the award, and we talked today
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: said he wasn't comfortable with the idea that they investigate
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: possible sightings, but they he used, like at it, they'll
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: look into it. What did he use look into it? Yeah,
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: he didn't want to say like quite like I wouldn't
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: say we investigate, we look into it, don't worry about it,
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: checks in the mail, We'll think about it. So does
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: that now? Another to Colorado News piece that I want
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: to get into. Can you can you lay out the
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: Gore Range? I think he spent so much time. Wow,
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: I can do it, but you honest is like the
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: Gore Range expert here. I did a little bit of
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: hunting in there, but a lot of you guys probably
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: I'm sure some of you've been up there. There is
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: the Gore Range that runs from Veil north towards Steamboat.
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: There's a Gore Pass which goes between Breckon Ridge and Bail.
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: There's Gore Creek that runs from Bail down into the
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: Eagle River. There's Gore Canyon on the Colorado River near Kremling.
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: Did I say Gore Pass Pass actually to Ponis Kremlin.
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: And there's this gentleman, British gentleman that's spent a lot
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: of time. You should talk about rampage in my notes.
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: The top of my notes is Gore is what you
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: might call an asshole. How many people here know like
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: the Gore? Like Gore has everything named him? You guys
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: know who Gore was? The story of Gore? So so uh,
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: this is something we've discussed in the past. Was like Laramie,
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: So Larrmy has got how myself named after him? Larrmy
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: shows up, he's like kind of a mountain man. No
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: one knows aiding a bottom is that his name Laramie?
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: And the minute he showed up, well was killed and
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: stuffed through the whole in a frozen beaver pond. The
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: dude winds up a half to stay named after him. Okay,
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: so Gore, here's Gore. So Gore is a he's an
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: Irish lord, so he's the aristocracy. Comes west in the
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: eighteen fifties to go on a little hunting trip. Now,
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: an interesting fact about this is Gore faired He's gonna
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: come up through New Orleans and come up the Mississippi
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: and then go up the Missouri. But he gets word
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: from a Mormon missionary in London to avoid New Orleans
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: due to a cholera and malaria outbreak, lands in New York. Instead.
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: He is packing with him seventy rifles, a dozen shotguns,
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: a brass bed, a steel bathtub featuring his personal crest.
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: He travels with his own personal fly higher. It takes
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: dozens of carts and wagons the haul Gore's hunting equipment.
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: He makes his way out to the Platte River, where
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: he hires Jim Bridger, famed mountain man Jim Bridger to
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: be his hunting guide. And they set to killing, and
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: they kill him for two years. Uh. They hunt the Arkansas,
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: they hunt the South Platte. They get up to Montana.
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: They hunt the Tongue, the Powder, they hunt the Yellowstone.
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: Gore likes to sleep till ten. They likes to get
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: up and hunt until after dark. By his own calculations,
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: he kills two thousand, five hundred buffalo, which he leaves
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: the rot one d five bears, perhaps forty of which
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: were grizzlies. He kills one thousand, six hundred deer in Elk.
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: Indians are going to their Indian agents to complain about
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: this particular individuals waste of resources. Even Jim Bridger gets
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: sick of him. Eventually everyone's mad the guy. His trips
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: coming to an end. He goes down to Fort Union
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: on the Missouri and he wants to sell his gear
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: to the James Kipp who ran the fort there. James
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: Kip gives him what he perceives to be a shitty offer. Now,
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: a lot of guys, Mike Brody's been in the guiding business.
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: How many you guys have all guided everyone? Here's guided
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: rich clients give you stuff? Am I not? Is this right? Like? Oh,
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: here's my binocular? Sonny? I mean, doesn't this happen? Real
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: hired to convert that into gasoline? I have found. But
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: it's a thing, right, It's a thing that happens. You
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: give your guide stuff not Gore. Gore is offended by
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: the offer, and at Fort Union he and this is
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: witnessed by a many. He starts a giant pyre and
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: burns every single thing that he had brought with him
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: out of spite. He burns Conostoga wagons, he burns freight wagons,
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: He burns red river carts. He burns a silk tent.
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: He burns all of his carpets. He burns his down
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: filled pillows. He had brought over an Indian rubber rubber
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: raft that no one had ever seen. He throws that
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: on the fire and burns it. He burns his meteorological equipment.
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: He burns his entire personal library. Bridger later in his
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: life talked about Gore, and the part of the story
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: of the interested Bridger was that Gore introduced him to Shakespeare.
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: Gore would read Bridge or Shakespeare at night, but he
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: burns all to his Shakespeare text. He had kept meticulous
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: journals through his whole journey. He burns his journals, hands
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: Jim Bridger fifty bucks and leaves only with his hunting trophies.
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: Then he winds up with a mountain range, a mountain pass,
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: a canyon, lake, Creek and wilderness area that he never
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: stepped and named after him. Yep, which violates even the
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: government's idea like explain like what it is that you're
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: supposed to do? Oh, you you you can you can
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: do that better than me, Like like like you have
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: to have you have to be an American citizen first, right, Um,
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: you go discover, you go explore something, you map it
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: out meaningful, you give people useful information that are going
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: to be there at some point in the future. And
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: someone says, hey, that guy did a good job, let's
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: name that mountain after him. But gorgeous gets out of
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: sheer inertia. Right, But there's a petition that Brody was
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: talking about. No, this is your your area of expertise. Yeah,
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: so this is the day and age where we're kind
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: of conscious of our history and mistakes we've made in
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: the past and names that shouldn't have been named. And
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: so there's a movement to rename the wipe Gore's name
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: off the face of Colorado's mountain sides. And uh, I'm
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: not sure how much traction it's gaining. But you can
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: sign the petition. You can sign the petition. Yeah, yeah,
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: And I believe what they want. It's the Shining Mountains
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: is what they would like the Ute to name them.
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: But a name that's been proposed is the general term
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: for the Rockies, which would have been the Shining Mountains.
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: The level the left a lot of time in there.
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: A couple more quick facts about Gore. It was the
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: most expensive expensive hunting expedition ever mounted at the time,
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: and Gore never cocked his own rifle, so I'd be like,
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: cal cock my rifle now I'm gonna shoot, you know, uh,
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: read about his thing. It's reminisce so like Gore like
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: winds up being a villain right like we now perceive,
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: and oftentimes like I'm the guy. I'm the kind of
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: guy that oftentimes when I hear like we're gonna read
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: aim something because of our contemporary perspective, oftentimes I get
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: a little uncomfortable feeling because I don't think it always
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: works to take a contemporary notion of morality and like
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: a a like a sophisticated progressive sense of morality and
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: apply it to people two years ago who probably in
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: their own time were progressive. But if but they but
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: it will never keep up, like you're always gonna find
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: something So the more you go back and analyze, you're
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: you're looking at people who further times were like outstanding,
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: like regardless outstanding individuals with really sophisticated thoughts about human
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: rights and sophisticated thoughts about what we ought to be
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: doing and how we ought to be as a nation
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: and what our aspirations and goals should be. But there's
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: this blemish, and we we we fixate on the blemish,
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: and it kinds of makes me uncomfortable more in his
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: own time, was hated, was hated. But maybe you don't.
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: Maybe maybe you leave that name there to just remind you, hey, man,
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: don't do that, you know, Well, that's what I'm thinking,
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: Like Colorado school kid, what an amazing lesson? You're like, Oh,
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: Gore a peak. I wonder how that guy named gonna
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: look this guy up? I mean, can you learn about
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: like the rapacious quality of man? Yes, otherwise it's like
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: that's gonna stick with you. The Shining Mountains is a
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: great name. But then no school could ever learns about
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: Gore because it's wiped off the face of the map, right,
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: So I don't know, Yeah, like maybe there should be
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: one of those interpretive highway signs that just says like, hey,
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: an asshole on it here. Yeah. I don't know, man.
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: Do you think there are people at the time being like, boy,
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: that's terrible, but he's creating a lot of jobs. That's good.
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: That's good. Uh. Yeah, I don't know, man, I don't
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: know about Because here's the thing. We all love Roosevelt, right,
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: and if you want to go find if you want
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: to find a guy that was up to that, go
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: read a little bit about Roosevelt's when he got out
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: of office and he did his big African safari. No difference,
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: no difference, but he right, Oh, that was just how
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: they did things back then, because he wanted up doing
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: some good turns. So even our interpretation of morality is
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: sort of like the influenced bollies are things where we're
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: you know, like his Africa trip. When anyone, anyone that
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: describes his average trip, they can't. Any writer that talks
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: about it can't help having the giant list of all
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: the crazy stuff he packed, quite similar to the list
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: I gave a minute ago. But he's our great hero.
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: So I don't know. The package for River of Doubt.
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah extensive, O my god, I mean you could almost
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: calm Gore with a conscious right, like he came around
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: at the end, you believe. So he died single. I
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: don't know. I mean, well, he did a lot for us,
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: right conservation wise. Okay, so let's say this. You're a
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: single reference Thereah, cow died single? Oh, just point out.
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I think that, like one history of
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: Gore that I read, the writer took some level of
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: satisfaction in the fact that he died alone. Maybe I
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: don't know if he was like he might have been,
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: but you know what, in the end, he died alone,
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: so he must have had a good life. You know.
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm just like the writer took says
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: it wasn't meant as a dig I was just wondering. Um, okay,
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: so let me say this. You are, You are commander
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: of the universe, and on your daily docket of decisions
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: is hey, should we change the Gore arranged to the
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: Shining Mountains? And just gotta you know, you got so
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: much to do that day. You gotta make a snap decision.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: And you know right now they're making the new signs.
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: Do you do it or not? Oh man? Before we
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: had this conversation, I was all for change, and you know,
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: but now I'm rethinking it. Um. I can't tell you
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: how many times I heard you want to say I
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: was back in the Gore. Yeah, back in the Shining Mountains.
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: That sounds good, they does. But there's nothing wrong with
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: the Gore either. But when you know the history of it,
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: it kind of stinks. Right. But now I'm conflicted because
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: I'm wondering if we should be changing those little blemishes
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: or do we leave them just to reminders. In my mind,
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: there's a gap here. The gap being why did they
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: name it after him? We know it's named after him,
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: but I guess maybe I'm missing something here, But I
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: don't know why they named it. Was it because he
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: came and did all these amazing expeditions and created a
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: name for himself, or because he was in There's for
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: how it started to happen. But it's not satisfactory. It
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: wasn't them being like, man that was a good guy,
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: he was cool. It wasn't like that. It was just
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: their naming a lot of things at the time, right,
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: So he came along at the right time, was kind
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: of notorious, and they said, you're the man rolls off
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: your tongue the morning I was for changing now here.
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: I am Master of the Universe, was the title commander
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: of these of the universe. Keep it, that's my official
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: make the sign, keep it. I'm with you like it's
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: it's where, it's what it is. You know, you can't
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 1: erase history by changing the name, and you shouldn't want
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: to write she shouldn't try and cover it up. I
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: don't know, man, callam learning opportunity. This is similar the
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: issues that are going on in New Mexico with regard
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: to monuments that were named after famous Spanish conquisadors that
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: horrible atrocities against Native Americans and Pueblans, and um, you know,
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: do you keep these because that was an important part
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: of history or do you change them because this guy
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: was such an ass and did so many bad things
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: and so many were just tools and the tool kit.
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah you know, so so yeah, I mean, do you
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: know these issues are being looked at all over the
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: place right now? I say change it, change it. Hell yeah,
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 1: I've called it to go over my entire life. Commander
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: command of Commander Cody hot Rod Lincoln. He opened up
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: for stepping wolf. Yeah right, Uh can we are we
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: ready to move on. There'ld be cool, cool, no one,
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: no one anything more. You know you're good. I'm good. Okay,
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: Now what's going on? It's checking that time? Are you
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: doing good? Do you think it's immoral? Do you think
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: it's immoral or or what's the opposite, immortal? Is it immoral?
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: Or okay? Two? Shoot a bedded deer? I'll go with okay, okay.
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: Can you give me a thinking and why it's okay? Um?
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: I think I just lay out why some people would
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: say maybe it's not okay. First, right, you want to
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: agree that we agree that would be a fine approach.
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: You're gonna say it's okay and tell us why it's
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: not or why some my view it is not yeah,
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: because I think if you don't have the context of that,
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: then why you even have this conversation. But I think
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 1: that well, there's two reasons I think a lot of
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: people say it's not okay, she did better deer or
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: whatever big game animal. One being that you're not seeing
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: like the body sort of stretched out and you're not
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: able to identify exactly where the vitals are and where
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: exactly should place your bullet or arrow right. The other
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: one being that somehow you caught an animal sleeping or
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: off guard, and that um, you're at such an advantage
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: that you should feel I guess morally bad about it.
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: And then you should like give the animal pass because
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: it's taken a break. Yes, that's money. That's the main
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: two reasons why people are sort of not not like
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: I want to see that as a sportsmanship thing, like
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 1: you're not supposed to shoot a duck off the water,
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 1: right some somewhere in there. Yeah, we've all decided that's okay.
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 1: So I I say it's okay because, um one, I
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: feel like if you know and and the anatomy enough
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: and if you have a like a rifle or whatever
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: weapon with enough pour that you know that the vitals,
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: that you can still place that bullet right where it
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: needs to go, even when it's you know, crowded up
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: in bedded and as far as like given it a
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: past because you caught it sleep. And you should be
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: considered like an excellent hunter because you snuck up to
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: a bedded animal because everybody knows it's like okay. Every
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: now and then, sure you catch one that's actually asleep,
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: but more likely when they're betted, they're still aware, or
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: or the one next to him is aware. Nobody's actually
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: completely asleep on the job, right. It's not he caught
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 1: like the platoon sleeping. He's stuck in there and got
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: the jump on everybody. So I think when you sneak
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 1: into you sneak into a bunch of bedded deer or
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: or just one, you should be considered an exceptional hunter
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: with exceptional skills and not not be not be said
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: that somehow you got over all one. I feel I
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: feel you on that. And remember we met a guy
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: that was kind of the opposite where his wife didn't
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: want to eat meat from animals that looked at him, right,
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: I do remember that. She's like she like, did it
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: look at you know? Okay? Right, So it didn't matter
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: if it was better or not. No, that was her thing.
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: It became. It became rather than saying like, oh, no,
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: you snuck up on this thing and it's better down.
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 1: Her thing would be like just from looking at it
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 1: like a sort of outsider perspectively, like once it's aware
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 1: of you and staring at you, you've kind of like
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: lost like something went wrong there and and and it
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: wasn't like you you know, you've said that before though,
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: like you prefer to shoot animals that have no idea
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 1: your way prefer it. Like when I'm like, it's in
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: everybody's story, you had no idea. It's like people love
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 1: that part of the story. Yeah, man, not aware that
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: I was there. I'm gonna start whistling first, just to
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 1: let him know, get him to stand up. Well, you know,
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 1: like Kevin Murphy blows the horn right when he starts
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 1: before he started on the guy that rode in about
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: about this. Do you want to know? I hesitated at first,
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 1: even shared his detail his dad was so opposed to
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: shooting do you know what I'm talking about? His father
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 1: is so opposed to shooting a bedded deer that his
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: father once found a wounded deer that had been hit
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: by a car, and he had kind of watched it
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 1: around their property. He kept trying to catch it on
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: his feet, but it had always cut through their property
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: and lay down, so it's already wounded. He's basically trying
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: to put it down but also be able to eat
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: it for it goes bad. He goes and gets a
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 1: red Rider BB gun to shoot the deer to get
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: it to stand up, to then shoot it with a muzzleloader.
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: This guy writes in a letter explained is the same.
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: What's your take on it? Wow? Give it a fighting chance?
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: He just give it a fighting chance. Yeah. I hunting
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 1: with you. Yeah, we you know, we ran into that
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 1: scenario in New Mexico on a problem r hunt. Crawled
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: up on an animal, open shot in the bed, and
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 1: all kinds of ship about it. Yeah. Prior to that,
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 1: I mean, it was actually a pretty cool stock. It
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 1: was really open country and we had to herd of
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: cattle just come blasting through and it was provided the
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 1: only bit of cover for the first part of the stock.
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 1: And then you went in belly crawled and finish This
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 1: amazing stock got into out in the middle of I mean,
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 1: there's a grasp about this tall and then you get
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 1: as cut it rashing and ship. Yeah, crawling around the
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 1: hot ass sun was dragging my rifle behind me. Cat
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 1: the storms all up and down and it was like
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 1: you weren't mainly because it was laying down. It's like,
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: come on, man, So so what does your take would
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 1: you take? Is? Uh? I have taking animals and some
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 1: of the best stocks in my life have been totally
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 1: creeping up on an animal and killing its bed On
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: the flip side of that, I have had animals lost
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 1: with me um by somebody shooting an animal and uh
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 1: not hitting the animal right when it was bedded, because
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: I have had to happen, and just this past year
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: I had that happen. It costs a family member of mind,
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 1: a bowl and so on, embedded on embedded bull elk.
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 1: So it happens. So if you know what you're doing
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 1: and you feel confident with it, and you are going
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 1: to own your shot and you've completed that stock, I
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 1: think you go for it. If you're not confident with it,
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 1: the animals not laid just right, don't take the shot. Yeah,
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 1: it's so hard, and I always have a hard time
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 1: with folks who are like, absolutely, this is the only
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 1: way you can do it, because honey is just not
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: that way. That's why I love it. It's got no
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 1: end to the variables. Right, there's animals, and animal does
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 1: what it wants and the conditions are unknown. So uh,
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 1: my general rule of thumb is no, do not client
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 1: though it compresses commander of the universe, compresses the area,
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 1: um you have more, you're I feel like your odds
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 1: increase of destroying good meat and patience kills man. Just
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 1: wait for that thing, stand up, put it through both lungs.
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 1: Minimal meat loss done to you. Now that being said,
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 1: you know you can very very well find that scenario
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 1: where everything is perfect, animals better and you have just
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 1: that beautiful window through the vitals and and it's great.
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 1: But yeah, generally I say, do not shoot. Wait are
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 1: you coming from the client perspective? What you're telling clients?
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 1: Are you individually here? I typically hold off myself. Yeah,
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 1: what about a client of time? No Brody. Well, before
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 1: Calihan spoke up, I was gonna say, I prefer to
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 1: shoot everyone betted. But the only shot I'll take you,
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 1: I had to wait a while for it to bed down.
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 1: Now I gotta think about it. I mean I have shot,
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 1: you know. I shot a bullout at less than twenty
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 1: yards with the rifle bedded down, and he was just
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 1: as surprised as I was when I um. But now
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 1: cows like got me off feeling guilty about it. So
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: you're on your personal journey. You know when people say
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 1: like two people like go yeah or no, when they
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 1: just measure the volume. When you're doing like an audience survey,
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: I don't want to do or measuring the volume. I
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 1: just want for when I put this to the audience test,
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 1: I just want you to say, yep, like that loud
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 1: not all kinds of screaming is a nice yep? Uh
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 1: would you change? Uh? Okay? All those in favor of
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 1: switching the Gore Range to the Shining Mountain Range say yep.
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 1: Alls in favor of it keeping its name, huh. Alls
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 1: that think it's okay to shoot a deer say in
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 1: its bed say yo. Yeah, they progressively got louder. You know,
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 1: I don't know about ship Okay. So we have at
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: at you know, at the Mediator podcast, we have a
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 1: man who's kind of emerged as as what I like
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 1: to call our philosopher and residence. Where does this guy,
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 1: this dude Luke Ryan, who happens to be with us
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 1: here tonight, who uh what sends in all these kind
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 1: of like really perplexing hunting questions, ethics questions enough to
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 1: where like I started taking notice of this fellow that he, uh,
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 1: he really knows how to get in there and grapple
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 1: with some of the hunting conundrums. And like said, he's
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 1: an intendis night and he had this question which interesting
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 1: ideas like what winds up being your shot to kill
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 1: ratio in big game hunting, pointing out that a wonder
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 1: one ratio meaning you know, every you you you kill
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 1: an animal with every shot you fire, might not be
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 1: the most ethical ratio because in some things that might
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 1: be that the minute you if if you hit an
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 1: animal for purposes of having a quick, humane kill, you
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 1: might quickly follow it up with a second shot in
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 1: order to ensure that it's gonna like die really quickly.
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 1: So bragging a one to one might not be as
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 1: good as if you had like a higher ratio, because
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 1: you just want to shure to like put him on
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 1: the ground quickly and efficiently in the case of hunting
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 1: something like moose or elk. So what is your shot
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 1: to kill shots fired two animals killed ratio? Uh one
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 1: point three one point three But lifetime no, I just
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 1: I just running through in my I just like ransom
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 1: calculations from like a year from the last year, because
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 1: I mean, I haven't like, I haven't like kept that,
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 1: I haven't like tracked the data. But I'll point out
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 1: the last year big game hunting, the only time I
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 1: shot twice, the first one would have been fine. That
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 1: just happened to shoot twice. I mean it's like a
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 1: fog nack, like a shot and you'll make fun. Oh no,
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 1: you're right. Yeah, so like one point seven or whatever,
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 1: one point four? Yeah, no, you're right. Yeah, I bet
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 1: you everyone that they think about it, the number will grow. Okay,
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 1: let me let me put it. Let me put this way,
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 1: let me put it in a more conservative way. It's
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 1: not too it's not big game only or is it
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 1: we counting a small game to you know, you're not
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 1: countently hunting ducks. No, there's more real quick okay, quickly
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 1: to give us the last part. Yeah, I got you staying.
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 1: If you miss, you gotta count it. Yeah, but I
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 1: don't have that problem. Oh yeah, it would be like
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 1: not to not to you guys running very high right now. Yeah,
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 1: you're honestly had some Western hunts. Yeah, yeah, for sure,
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 1: for sure. Um three on my coups to each on
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 1: my last two animals. Last cow was to last five
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 1: squirrels with three apiece. Yeah yeah, I don't know. So yeah,
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 1: what does that give me? Yeah, I'll just go with
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 1: Colorado last year one on my muley Buck one on
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 1: my prompt because you missed your MULEI buck before that,
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 1: my gun didn't fire. What does that? Yeah, I pulled
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 1: a trigger and I didn't even get a click or anything.
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 1: Does that count? Doesn't count? That doesn't count. And then too,
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 1: on my bowl, I pulled that, I shot him and
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 1: he didn't move, so I immediately shot him again and
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 1: just to be sure, and walked up there and two
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 1: two vital shots. So four shots, three animals. Now let's
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 1: hear Cal's amazingly known Kel's point seven five like amazingly
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 1: low number. Yeah, this is good. This is humbling bowl
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 1: one mule deer, one bowl negative four? What does that mean?
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 1: I at the time, I was like, I am inexplicably missing.
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 1: Now that's not true. The fact of the matter is
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 1: is I have, quite ignorantly, I have just not been
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 1: shooting as much as I used to, and I had
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 1: my rightful skills have clearly fallen off the map. So
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 1: I did. Uh. I went back home to Montana on
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 1: our real misery hunt and found another nice bowl in
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 1: there and missed. I missed three times, now four times?
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 1: Missed three times? Okay at sub two yards? Kelly, yeah,
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 1: are you hearing you? All the scenarios but that's not
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 1: the question. I can give you a full meal deal.
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 1: But I missed three times under two hundred yards, okay,
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 1: And I had a here is the bull because it
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 1: was so confused that it ran directly at me. And
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 1: now it's at four years and I'm like, well, now
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 1: only a jackass would miss and I had the safety
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 1: on and did uh, how about I not heard the story?
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 1: It was it well, it's yeah, it's not a good story.
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 1: And it got away. It's just it got away gone.
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 1: I mean, it was the full day I told you
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 1: about that hunt. It was like thirty winds the whole time,
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 1: this hell hole and the driving snow, and I had
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 1: all the time in the world, had my pack down
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 1: and like two ft of snow, so I was basically
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 1: like sitting on a couch, had dead fall in front
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 1: of me and had a perfect rest. And I was like,
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 1: just take your time, just take your time, just take
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 1: your time, and one of those yeah, and I did,
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 1: And I missed over a course of period of time. Yeah, yeah,
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 1: good question, Brady, hold on. But then was off right? No,
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 1: it wasn't, no, no, no, this was off So you lost.
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 1: I got lost in the numbers somewhere. So you're running
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 1: a plus two absolutely six an arrow bull, one bullet
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 1: for the mule. There three misses on another bowl, which
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 1: I didn't feel bad. Two animals, seven shot. Divide this
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 1: into this and yeah she did like three point three yeah.
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 1: Uh cow, moose, one shot, mule, deer buck one shot,
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 1: cow out three shots. They all hit her, but it
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 1: was three shots too to end it at the end.
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 1: That's it for last. But I feel like you year
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 1: is such a small sample size too, Okay, can we
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 1: move on? Yeah? If you do, you're salad with sub
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 1: tube comfortable. I think there's years eyes probably more in
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 1: cow's range. Thanks Luke. This guy starts out by saying
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 1: I have absolutely zero access to grind, so I'm gonna
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 1: tell me more. Um. He goes on to ask this, Uh,
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 1: he's going out west. He's from Georgia, going out west
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 1: on his first big time wild West hunting trip, which
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 1: he says he does not want it to get squirrely. Um,
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 1: what is a specific prong hornet? He's going on an
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 1: antelope punt, prong horn, analop punt. He's like he wants
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 1: a little specific piece of prong horn anlope hunting gear,
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 1: not like just general universal gear, but antelope gear. Kneepads
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 1: take one, everybody gets to pick one. I'm doing knee
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 1: pads analope specific. Yeah, I like it, construction kneepads. Um,
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 1: since I saw you do this, I'm gonna go with bipod.
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, we'll play, we'll play. Yeah, I'm gonna go
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 1: with optics. You know, universal gear. You're talking specific normal
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 1: general gear. I feel like bipods specific enough, specific enough.
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 1: I accept that answer. So I go like apare twelve
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 1: or fift twelve power binos. There we go, twelve power binders, sunscreen.
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 1: I was gonna say, like a buff but sunscreen kind
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 1: of thirteen bullets. I don't know. I'll add another one
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 1: man and we've done this. Uh is a white handkerchief.
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 1: It's kind of amazing just for flagging, just doing this.
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 1: You want to see him go, and they'll oftentimes be like,
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 1: huh is that legal everywhere? If it's legally illegal, how
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 1: could it be ill? I can't picture being illegal to
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 1: be like, to be like, dude, I just was getting
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 1: my hanky out. I was just giving him my head
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 1: like a safety aspect. There's something white moving number Oh
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 1: shoot a shot, Steve Rinella, we got time for a
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 1: couple more. We gotta call it more. We got it
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 1: also got to our closers. Here's a quick question. But
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 1: I don't think you guys are gonna have any perspective
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 1: on this question. A guy writes in and he says,
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 1: I guess this isn't keeping with your having eaten coyotes.
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 1: Have you any advice or experience with the common carp?
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 1: There is a lot of meat on those puppies, Um
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 1: I have like we've cooked and eating common carp. I've
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 1: smoked him, ground him up for patties. It's uh, it
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 1: winds up being that like it's absolutely edible. A lot
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 1: of people from a lot of cultures raise them for
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 1: the purpose and he's talking about common like, you know
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 1: your Asian carp raised them for the European cart, raising
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 1: for the purpose of food. You're fine, it's edible all that,
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 1: But after when I eat them, I don't come away
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 1: from it being like man, I cannot wait to go
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 1: get another cart. And so that's like to me, that's
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 1: this whole classification of wild game. It's like I ate
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 1: it didn't hurt um not dying to do it. Again,
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 1: and I put common carp in that category. Any experience.
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 1: If you have no experience, can you do me a favor?
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 1: Try it? Can you? Um? No? No? Not that. Can
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 1: you tell me what sort of like the latest wild
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 1: game dish you've been onto that you're like, this is
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 1: what people ought to be cooking that they might not
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 1: be aware of your No, they could be aware of it,
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 1: but it's like what you're on because you made me
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 1: a very good moose heart taco two nights ago. Yeah,
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 1: can that be my answer? That could be your thing?
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 1: Lay it out? Okay? Um? Yeah, I did a moose
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 1: heart moose heart and an elkhart. We really didn't need both,
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 1: but um kind of carved him up, got him down
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 1: and nothing but meat. You know, there's a lot of
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 1: connective tissue and silver skin on hearts. As you trimmed
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 1: all that off, we do not had to, you know,
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 1: make dinner for the boss. So um. But yeah, when
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 1: once you get that stuff off of there, the gristle
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 1: and veins and fat and silver skin, it's like very
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 1: dense kind of soft meat. And I just cut it
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 1: in strips, marinated it in uh olive oil, lime juice,
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 1: carne asadas, seasoning, grilled it. Rare threw it on some
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 1: tacos with all kinds of top. Yeah, like charge some
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 1: peppers and onions on the grill to go on it.
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 1: Some case so fresco. I think that was about it. Herbs, yeah, cilantro. Yeah,
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 1: it's just like a fresh summer meat. Yeah. Well, I
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 1: was so worried about overcooking it that some of it
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 1: was definitely undercooked. But I'd rather go that direction than
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 1: overcooked like this in your mouth. But my kids ate it,
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 1: which I you know, and you guys didn't hear any grumlins.
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 1: So I love mine here today. But a moose hearts
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 1: like a guy actually, Like I posted a picture of
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 1: the elkhart and the moose heart. He's like, you should
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 1: have posted a picture of a deer heart for US
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 1: Eastern guys for size perspective, and I said, I replied
• 1:28:16
  Speaker 1: to him, I said, fist to fist child's head like
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 1: kind of the perspective. I want to back up on
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 1: cart real quickly. At one time, did it a scopier
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 1: recipe with carp where you cut the carp's head and
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 1: tail off, then you de bone and you flay it
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 1: like de bone all the meat, and you grind the
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 1: meat up and mix it with butter and bread crumbs
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 1: and all kinds of all the good things to eat.
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 1: And you reform the carp's body out of this stick
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 1: the head and tail back onto it like scales with truffles.
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 1: It's like food taxider. You rescale the carp with sliced
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 1: truffles and eat it. That is good, carp. It sounds like,
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 1: can you make that next time? We? Can you make
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 1: that next time we go cart fishing? I could do
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 1: it again. I could do it. It It takes like about
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 1: three days budget um, carp. I feel like anything when
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 1: the water is super cold is edible. And it's a
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 1: flawed theory. Uh. And then you know, summertime, carp there
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 1: in to me like boiling hot water out there in
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 1: the back bays, and and that just does not seem
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 1: palatable in any way, shape or form. But you know,
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 1: I was in Panama over the winter that waters always warm.
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 1: Those fish tastes great. Yeah, that's a good point, but
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 1: people do have that they're good in the winter. I
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 1: grew up here in that about suckers. But I'm and
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 1: uh one kind of fun fish thing. You know, MA
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 1: always try one extra thing. I had a uh brown
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 1: trout ate a streamer a little too deep and kept
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 1: the brown trout that had not I only say that
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 1: because I just hadn't intended to have trout that night.
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 1: Kind of rearrange the menu and did the trout on
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 1: blue blue. Yeah, So if you don't know what this is,
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 1: it's it's basically it takes some aromatics and uh white
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 1: vinegar and water. Get that too, a high sizzle and
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 1: just slide the trout in there. Well, when I gutted
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 1: this brown trout, it had a liver that was like
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 1: this big. I mean it was like two big thumbs
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 1: doubled up. And I threw that liver in there and
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 1: it was not to be missed. It was fantastic in
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 1: the old days. And they made true doll blue or
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 1: blue trout. I'm saying it's horribly and uh it was.
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 1: It was essential that you put a live trout because
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 1: it's skins would turn to extra vibrant blue. But that
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 1: just doesn't feel quite right. And guts in obviously, Yeah,
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 1: you get the vinegar broth because what it is is
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 1: like the skin turns blue for some reason I'll never understand. Um,
• 1:31:24
  Speaker 1: But if you wanted to be really blue, you put it.
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 1: You slip live trout into the boiling elixir, which just
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 1: one of those It's like gore. Right, there's just some things.
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 1: There's just some things we don't do anymore. Kids. Oh man,
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 1: no carp My last name is lu Han, so clearly
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 1: tacos are pretty big in my household. So I love
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 1: a red chili taco and just a really good um
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 1: some of the prime cuts from either pronghorn or elk
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 1: and uh some good ground red chili from northern New Mexico,
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 1: and uh some flour and you get the mixture right
• 1:32:06
  Speaker 1: in your pot, and then you dump in your meat
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 1: and you cook a little sole on the side and
• 1:32:10
  Speaker 1: which is like hominy almost, and you mix those up
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 1: and you have a big, hardy stew, probably the best,
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 1: my favorite meal. And you can probably put a house
• 1:32:18
  Speaker 1: cat near it would taste good, right, And I said,
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 1: you up, man, If you get that red chili, if
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 1: you get that, if you get your if you get
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 1: everything mixed up just right, you can throw a carp
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 1: in there and it taste a carbon carp tacas. But
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 1: I've had that, and it wasn't until I met you
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 1: that I knew that there was like a tar or
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 1: tear war. What's that word in wine tear war? I
• 1:32:40
  Speaker 1: don't know, say to it? Yeah, like uh, meaning that
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 1: that each like each place sort of has its own
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 1: thing that that it imbibes in the flavor, right, and
• 1:32:52
  Speaker 1: it's like a one thing that like this hill, the
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 1: South Hill has an extra quality that you don't get
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 1: when we grow greats on the North pie. Like your head,
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 1: you were like being into what valley chili's come from? Yeah,
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 1: the Hatch Valley obviously everybody knows Hatch chili, but a
• 1:33:07
  Speaker 1: lot of volcanic soil. And then for the green chili,
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 1: and then northern New Mexico, the Espanola Valley is my
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 1: family's preferred red chili, which is green chili that's dried, crushed,
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 1: you know, ground and um. And then each It's interesting,
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 1: each of the pueblos in New Mexico also take prior
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 1: to our our chill. Our green chili is better than
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 1: the next door poeblo screen chili. So everybody's kind of
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 1: got their own strains and different ways of preparing it. Yeah,
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 1: and you integrate that int your world game, and you
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 1: I integrate a lot of green Chilian red chili in
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 1: my into our wild game cuisine. My my wife does
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 1: as well. So you carps have served you carb? Yeah
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 1: it was good? You liked it? Was that able? The
• 1:33:51
  Speaker 1: what I did like from that same we're talking about Wisconsin, right, Yeah,
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 1: well was good. I remember those the ribs that we
• 1:33:57
  Speaker 1: had off those but they were off the carp. I
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 1: think that was a buff a little sucker that's a
• 1:34:01
  Speaker 1: native fish. Yeah, but those rails were good. Yeah, like
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 1: really like meaty good ribs off of a fish. Yeah,
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 1: like the rib the rib cage. Man, like you cook
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 1: the rib cage off a buffalo socker, which is like
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 1: a cart but it's a native fish, not a non
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 1: native fish. They used to be a commercial market for
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 1: him in the old days. Just fry that rib cage,
• 1:34:21
  Speaker 1: thrilled them with ramps, which you probably have new your house. Either.
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 1: Are they like quarter inch maybe not quite? They're like
• 1:34:31
  Speaker 1: that thick? No there you going the bone itself or
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 1: them with the meat the the meat Oh yeah then
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 1: a solid maybe even three eights. So what what do you?
• 1:34:42
  Speaker 1: What are you hot on right now? Put? Am I
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 1: hot on? Turkey, liver, pat day meat, butter as as
• 1:34:52
  Speaker 1: a bunch of people on Instagram described it, which I
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 1: never called that growing up, but yeah, I took a
• 1:34:58
  Speaker 1: turkey liver and ah, I didn't mean to, but I
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 1: ended up basically sulking in water for about a week.
• 1:35:05
  Speaker 1: It's because I didn't have time and I was almost
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 1: getting ready to pitch it, I'll be honest, because like, yeah,
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 1: I don't know if it's still gonna be good, but
• 1:35:12
  Speaker 1: it smells fine, So I went ahead and did it
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 1: and quick recipe. Um, so I recommend anybody tries it
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 1: because it literally took thirty minutes to not even thirty
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 1: minutes by fifteen minutes to make, and then maybe an
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 1: hour to let us set up in the fridge, but
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 1: just so good a week. Yeah, so in a week
• 1:35:27
  Speaker 1: you probably get away with just printing it, but trimming up,
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 1: chopping up a little bit. And I was surprised because
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 1: it was a chicken liver recipe that I used and
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 1: they called for a half a pound. I was like, oh, man, like,
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 1: how am I ever gonna come up with a half
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 1: pound of liver? Right? But the turkey's liver actually ended
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 1: up being a quarter pound. A turkey's liver is a
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 1: quarter pound. Yeah, so I just had to have the recipe.
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 1: I was surprised. Yeah, big liver, and so chopped it up,
• 1:35:57
  Speaker 1: and then uh, in a with I think like a
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 1: couple of water, you put that in there, one bay leaf,
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 1: a couple of peppercorns, one clove of a crushed garlic,
• 1:36:08
  Speaker 1: and like a half a teaspoon of fresh time. I believe,
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 1: simmer for about three minutes, turn turn the heat off,
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 1: put the lid on it, let it sit for five
• 1:36:19
  Speaker 1: more minutes, strain it out of the water into the
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 1: food process or remove peppercorns and bay leaves, buzz it
• 1:36:26
  Speaker 1: until it's pure ad. And then um, I read a
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 1: bunch of recipes on how to make chicken lap patten
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 1: it and people, uh it varied greatly to ask to
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 1: how much butter people put in? So for my quarter pound,
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 1: I put in roughly three quarters of a stick of butter.
• 1:36:42
  Speaker 1: Like the further east you go, the more butter you have, yes,
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 1: definitely more labby than you are. The more butter you did,
• 1:36:48
  Speaker 1: you say, three quarters three quarters of a stick? Yeah,
• 1:36:51
  Speaker 1: three quarters of a stick. And then uh, that's all
• 1:36:54
  Speaker 1: so it's all pure eight up. And then I think
• 1:36:56
  Speaker 1: the recipe called for conejak in an avenue. So I
• 1:36:58
  Speaker 1: think I put in like a tables fun of no, no, no,
• 1:37:07
  Speaker 1: it was four roses whiskey that had some dust on it. Yeah,
• 1:37:14
  Speaker 1: and uh yeah, if you buzz that another second longer,
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 1: put into a ramickin, cover it and put it in
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 1: the fridge. It sets up and then smeared on crackers.
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 1: It's delicious. Yeah, but you know, you get into the
• 1:37:26
  Speaker 1: kind of the point of you're like your creamed cart
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 1: because you've almost taken what it was and transformed it,
• 1:37:32
  Speaker 1: you know, so far to something else because you've added
• 1:37:35
  Speaker 1: how long does it take to do that? Yunny? It
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 1: sounds like a pretty involved process, Like are you kidding?
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 1: It was quick and easy. That's the thing that happens
• 1:37:44
  Speaker 1: in wild game cooking where and we thought it was
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 1: a bunch of Steve kend rots, very wonderful venison pork
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 1: fat sausage. Is at what point is it no longer
• 1:37:59
  Speaker 1: why old game? A quarter pound of liver in three
• 1:38:03
  Speaker 1: quarters sticks of butter. I was still like the fact
• 1:38:07
  Speaker 1: that it's liver makes me be like, it's extra wild game, right,
• 1:38:10
  Speaker 1: It's like extra wild game. So I still feel like
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 1: that counts is a wild game dish. It's very definitely
• 1:38:17
  Speaker 1: a wild game dish. I'm glad you brought up his
• 1:38:20
  Speaker 1: sausage though, because I was talking about this with your brother,
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 1: and we're talking about like adding too much fat, wasting
• 1:38:25
  Speaker 1: a bunch of fat, right, because you end up with
• 1:38:27
  Speaker 1: a pant that's got you know, sometimes a half inch
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 1: of what you cook. Those sausages that I made, right,
• 1:38:32
  Speaker 1: there's like a half inch of fat that they're floating
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 1: in by the time you've done cook them. But I
• 1:38:36
  Speaker 1: feel like there's something else going on inside the sausage
• 1:38:40
  Speaker 1: that when you when you cut down the fat, because
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 1: you're thinking, like all I have here is waste, right,
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 1: because of all this extra fat I put in here.
• 1:38:48
  Speaker 1: But something else is going on inside that sausage. It's
• 1:38:51
  Speaker 1: changing the character of that sausage. With that much fat
• 1:38:54
  Speaker 1: in the right, even though it's all like there's a
• 1:38:56
  Speaker 1: bunch left and drift down like when you cut that one, heard,
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 1: and when you make fat, even though it's like there's
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 1: a bunch of rendered out fat, what's left over is
• 1:39:06
  Speaker 1: a much different product. You're right, because it gets like
• 1:39:09
  Speaker 1: I think you had once said that you described someone
• 1:39:12
  Speaker 1: sausage as though you had browned a bunch of burger
• 1:39:14
  Speaker 1: and crammed it into a sausage casing. Were the ones
• 1:39:17
  Speaker 1: that being like, it's like kind of ground meat in
• 1:39:20
  Speaker 1: a tube and the fat. You're right, even though the
• 1:39:22
  Speaker 1: fat comes out, there's something about the high fat ratio
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 1: that still makes it that you bite into your like
• 1:39:30
  Speaker 1: that is sausage you guys. All right, so that's what
• 1:39:36
  Speaker 1: you're hot onto. Yeah, I'm definitely gonna do it again
• 1:39:40
  Speaker 1: next year, my liver pat alright. Concluders, Oh, you were
• 1:39:48
  Speaker 1: supposed to bring something. Gonna do it right now as
• 1:39:51
  Speaker 1: you are we doing concluders. But you were thinking about
• 1:39:57
  Speaker 1: doing a segue into my concluder. But are you gonna
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 1: segue off of the moose Heart because you could do
• 1:40:07
  Speaker 1: a double sege. That's a double segue. Maybe you should
• 1:40:10
  Speaker 1: do that? Um you think how t o? My first
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 1: concluder is thank you to everyone for coming out tonight.
• 1:40:27
  Speaker 1: My uh, My second concluder is, um, there's only eight
• 1:40:34
  Speaker 1: of these chairs in existence, but these these handy Danny
• 1:40:36
  Speaker 1: Knew yet E chairs. So these are cool, very comfortable.
• 1:40:39
  Speaker 1: My third concluder, my third concluder is, uh, hey, Brody,
• 1:40:43
  Speaker 1: I keep thinking about that uh moose heart taco. You
• 1:40:47
  Speaker 1: made me speaking of moose. We were talking to a
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 1: Colorado Parks and Wildlife officer today about other recreational users
• 1:40:58
  Speaker 1: on public land besides hunter um and the impact they
• 1:41:02
  Speaker 1: may or may not have on game and other wildlife.
• 1:41:06
  Speaker 1: And CAL has been involved a lot with kind of
• 1:41:11
  Speaker 1: bringing those recreational users together with hunters to like join
• 1:41:16
  Speaker 1: up in this fight to protect our public lands, which
• 1:41:20
  Speaker 1: got me to thinking about this thing that happened up
• 1:41:23
  Speaker 1: I believe at Brainerd Lake, not that a couple of
• 1:41:26
  Speaker 1: years ago um where a I think he was an
• 1:41:30
  Speaker 1: archery hunter drew a moose tag for the Indian Peaks
• 1:41:34
  Speaker 1: wilderness there, which is, you know, right there by Brainard
• 1:41:37
  Speaker 1: Lake and legally shoots a moose within close proximity of
• 1:41:45
  Speaker 1: the trailhead. The moose kind of saunters through a meadow
• 1:41:50
  Speaker 1: and promptly dies in front of some freaked out hikers types,
• 1:41:57
  Speaker 1: which led to that area, like that area being closed
• 1:42:02
  Speaker 1: within a one mile radius for moose hunting so that
• 1:42:05
  Speaker 1: no more hiker types get traumatized by animals dieing in
• 1:42:08
  Speaker 1: front of him, which is kind of irritates me because well,
• 1:42:16
  Speaker 1: like also it could happen anywhere, like you know, like
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 1: a hiker could be hiking on any chunk of public
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 1: land and be like, oh my god, I just the
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 1: death cycle. Yeah, what kind of place is this? And
• 1:42:31
  Speaker 1: so like, if we're gonna share public land with these
• 1:42:35
  Speaker 1: other recreational users, which I'm all for, we gotta share,
• 1:42:41
  Speaker 1: right like hunt and hunting and things die. And like,
• 1:42:45
  Speaker 1: I understand why it happened because it's in close proximity
• 1:42:48
  Speaker 1: to Boulder, and but that shouldn't But that shoudn't matter. No,
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 1: don't do that. Don't do that because by you Also,
• 1:42:56
  Speaker 1: Brody provided his own counterpoint earlier that they had opened
• 1:42:59
  Speaker 1: up like a like basically a green space cow hunt
• 1:43:02
  Speaker 1: there that went on very well, exactly sew of you guys,
• 1:43:04
  Speaker 1: probably from maybe some of you guys, hunted it that.
• 1:43:07
  Speaker 1: When I saw it, I was like, there's no way
• 1:43:10
  Speaker 1: they're gonna pass this cow hunt, like right outside the
• 1:43:13
  Speaker 1: city city limits a Boulder on open space like county land.
• 1:43:18
  Speaker 1: There's no way it's gonna go. And it went over
• 1:43:20
  Speaker 1: very well. You know, they reduced a heard about that
• 1:43:24
  Speaker 1: was largely out of control because it wasn't getting hunted,
• 1:43:27
  Speaker 1: and it went over. Did anyone kill him there? Anyone hunted?
• 1:43:35
  Speaker 1: Good luck? I feel like they should have charged those
• 1:43:39
  Speaker 1: hikers more for having the experience of witnessing witnessing such
• 1:43:50
  Speaker 1: like a rare occurrence. Yeah, like you watch it on
• 1:43:53
  Speaker 1: you pay cable television to watch that stuff, right, you know,
• 1:43:56
  Speaker 1: Like that's my brother was recently telling me. When he's
• 1:43:59
  Speaker 1: watching uh animal chasing another animal heat roots for the
• 1:44:03
  Speaker 1: animal to get away, I always find myself kinding. I
• 1:44:07
  Speaker 1: hope he catches it. Yeah, he's like, oh man, I
• 1:44:10
  Speaker 1: get the press like i'd be. I'd be like, go down,
• 1:44:13
  Speaker 1: go down, go down. Yeah he got him again. No points, Nope,
• 1:44:27
  Speaker 1: call hand out a concluder. Yeah. So, thank you guys,
• 1:44:34
  Speaker 1: very very much for all the public landowner T shirts
• 1:44:37
  Speaker 1: and all the compliments about our public lands and they're
• 1:44:40
  Speaker 1: amazing and the hunt eat t shirts and it's awesome,
• 1:44:46
  Speaker 1: and I hope you guys do more than just wear
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 1: a good looking T shirt and get involved in this process.
• 1:44:53
  Speaker 1: It's very easy and uh to talk about this experience
• 1:44:58
  Speaker 1: and broad he's talking about here. I think it is
• 1:45:01
  Speaker 1: incredibly easy and incredibly unproductive to kind of be like,
• 1:45:06
  Speaker 1: screw you, I'm a hunter and I paid for this,
• 1:45:09
  Speaker 1: and I'm in fact I'm paying for most of you
• 1:45:11
  Speaker 1: guys recreation opportunities. Though it's so fun and it's so easy,
• 1:45:19
  Speaker 1: it's just not productive. So trailhead diplomacy is something I
• 1:45:23
  Speaker 1: always talk about. Have to have a little bit of patients.
• 1:45:28
  Speaker 1: You have to look at all this as learning teaching opportunity,
• 1:45:32
  Speaker 1: learning opportunity um for both sides, and you gotta be
• 1:45:36
  Speaker 1: willing to listen just as well as you uh explain
• 1:45:40
  Speaker 1: your position. But you know, all this stuff is uh,
• 1:45:46
  Speaker 1: we like to think of hunting as a right, but
• 1:45:48
  Speaker 1: it's just something that we really get to go out
• 1:45:51
  Speaker 1: and enjoy. And it is a very real thing that
• 1:45:55
  Speaker 1: it it could go away. We could see it happen.
• 1:45:57
  Speaker 1: So I think all of us, as responsible human beings,
• 1:46:02
  Speaker 1: adults and hunters, have to go out there, uh with
• 1:46:08
  Speaker 1: a willingness to educate and make sure that this is
• 1:46:12
  Speaker 1: around for a long long time. Yeah we did, you
• 1:46:19
  Speaker 1: get That's a tough one to follow up on, Thank you,
• 1:46:27
  Speaker 1: But it kind of thought riding on Cal's coat tails there.
• 1:46:30
  Speaker 1: I think back in the day here in Colorado nies
• 1:46:33
  Speaker 1: nine fifties, we had a lot of tremendous people who
• 1:46:36
  Speaker 1: were were class outdoor recreationalist ski jumpers, basically our tenth
• 1:46:41
  Speaker 1: Mountain Division. Guys, what did they? These are all the
• 1:46:43
  Speaker 1: original outdoor recreationalists, and that generation was also fishermen and
• 1:46:48
  Speaker 1: big game hunters, and so somewhere those past recreation hunting
• 1:46:53
  Speaker 1: and fishing of diverge. And so I think it's up
• 1:46:56
  Speaker 1: to us now. It's going on with what calisin to
• 1:46:59
  Speaker 1: kind of bring that full circle through trailhead diplomacy or
• 1:47:03
  Speaker 1: otherwise and just education, recruiting new hunters. And one thing
• 1:47:07
  Speaker 1: you know that I see, Uh, last year, I was
• 1:47:10
  Speaker 1: bummed out. I was driving through northern Colorado through on
• 1:47:14
  Speaker 1: a National Forest road and I kept driving past camp
• 1:47:16
  Speaker 1: after camp with dudes in the middle of the afternoon.
• 1:47:18
  Speaker 1: They're all saying, no, you didn't see a grizzly bear.
• 1:47:20
  Speaker 1: And they're saying, there's no grizzly bearers here, and there's
• 1:47:23
  Speaker 1: no hippies here. Um, So I was bummed out because
• 1:47:27
  Speaker 1: I wasn't seeing any kids. I was just seeing a
• 1:47:29
  Speaker 1: bunch of dudes here and a bunch of dudes there.
• 1:47:32
  Speaker 1: Came over the Settle Rise into patch of aspens and
• 1:47:35
  Speaker 1: I looked up and there was two kids walking up
• 1:47:38
  Speaker 1: the road with twenty two smiling at me. And was
• 1:47:41
  Speaker 1: a brother and sister hunting grouse with a rifle and
• 1:47:44
  Speaker 1: their dad walking right behind them and kind of made
• 1:47:48
  Speaker 1: my day. And I was like, God, we need more
• 1:47:50
  Speaker 1: of that out in the woods right now. And I
• 1:47:52
  Speaker 1: think you know, and so you know, IM parting not
• 1:47:55
  Speaker 1: to go too long here, but you know, um, life
• 1:47:59
  Speaker 1: is like a toilet paper man. The more you get
• 1:48:01
  Speaker 1: into it, the faster goes. There's so many excuses not
• 1:48:05
  Speaker 1: to take a buddy or a new hunter, or a
• 1:48:08
  Speaker 1: child hunting. And so you've just got to take it
• 1:48:10
  Speaker 1: upon yourself to make that happen every opportunity you get,
• 1:48:14
  Speaker 1: because every day that goes by you don't do it,
• 1:48:16
  Speaker 1: isn't a day that you didn't take someone else and
• 1:48:18
  Speaker 1: bring him into this room that is full of people
• 1:48:22
  Speaker 1: that do what we love. So that's all I got.
• 1:48:25
  Speaker 1: Blind getting all warm and fuzzy in here. Can't team
• 1:48:31
  Speaker 1: me up something he served me up? Can team me
• 1:48:35
  Speaker 1: up something too? Like trying to segue you into something?
• 1:48:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah give me Oh boy, Um, that's funny because the
• 1:48:47
  Speaker 1: warden today mentioned that too. Um that struck me and
• 1:48:51
  Speaker 1: I think you guys heard it today where he mentioned
• 1:48:54
  Speaker 1: that ten twenty years ago, like every camp he went to.
• 1:48:59
  Speaker 1: There were kids in there, and a lot of times
• 1:49:01
  Speaker 1: it was just mom, dad and kids and and just
• 1:49:04
  Speaker 1: kids that we're not even old enough to hunt. But
• 1:49:05
  Speaker 1: like every camp you stop, I was like that. And
• 1:49:08
  Speaker 1: now they literally get on the radio and go, oh yeah,
• 1:49:11
  Speaker 1: we just stopped at a campus and people is under
• 1:49:13
  Speaker 1: thirty in it. Um So he he was pointed that
• 1:49:17
  Speaker 1: as you know, being a factor that we don't have
• 1:49:19
  Speaker 1: this like younger generation coming up where we still a
• 1:49:22
  Speaker 1: lot he said, the average age was fifty or something
• 1:49:26
  Speaker 1: something like that. I think there's a thing that happens
• 1:49:29
  Speaker 1: and I found it, and this is like just tagging
• 1:49:31
  Speaker 1: on your concluder. But the thing I found that I
• 1:49:34
  Speaker 1: don't know if it was something's changed, but I know
• 1:49:37
  Speaker 1: a lot of guys now that seemed to be that
• 1:49:39
  Speaker 1: that there like very busy and they're kind of protective
• 1:49:43
  Speaker 1: of these little times when they can get away, and
• 1:49:47
  Speaker 1: it's kind of like there's a lot of people that
• 1:49:48
  Speaker 1: don't want to be bothered by Uh, there's sort of
• 1:49:52
  Speaker 1: this mentality of not wanting to be like bothered by
• 1:49:54
  Speaker 1: the annoyance of having kids, right, And so you can
• 1:49:58
  Speaker 1: I think that now they're maybe not maybe it's not
• 1:50:01
  Speaker 1: something new, but there's just kind of like reluctance to
• 1:50:03
  Speaker 1: be drugged down by how I mean, they're little and
• 1:50:06
  Speaker 1: they're hard to deal with. I have three little kids,
• 1:50:08
  Speaker 1: and when when I'm fishing with them, I'm like, sometimes
• 1:50:12
  Speaker 1: not the person I want to be a question too,
• 1:50:16
  Speaker 1: and I gotta just go like okay, yeah, I usually
• 1:50:20
  Speaker 1: don't even get to pull the trigger when I have
• 1:50:22
  Speaker 1: my kids with me, So you can't. There's not even
• 1:50:24
  Speaker 1: ratio of you know, pull to dead. Sh Yeah, you're
• 1:50:27
  Speaker 1: like bullet fired deal, like no one shot. You might
• 1:50:30
  Speaker 1: as well leave you gun at home. And then but
• 1:50:32
  Speaker 1: then I like I I now and then collect myself.
• 1:50:34
  Speaker 1: I remember when I was getting a vast act to
• 1:50:36
  Speaker 1: me at one point the document like this, and I
• 1:50:39
  Speaker 1: knew I was like, why have I been laving here
• 1:50:40
  Speaker 1: to twenty five minutes? But yeah, I'll be like this
• 1:50:43
  Speaker 1: is my kids, be like just pulled together, pulled together,
• 1:50:46
  Speaker 1: pulled together, and then come back out and be like, okay, everyone,
• 1:50:49
  Speaker 1: we're gonna get all these hooks out of everybody. We're
• 1:50:54
  Speaker 1: gonna rebate, and we're gonna get back in the water man.
• 1:50:58
  Speaker 1: So it's like you got to get him out yeah, yeah,
• 1:51:05
  Speaker 1: thank you again for coming out. Yeah, I love all
• 1:51:08
  Speaker 1: you guys. One more minute, it'll be fun. But we
• 1:51:13
  Speaker 1: will be at the front doors season to sign some
• 1:51:16
  Speaker 1: books as long as we possibly can. And before you
• 1:51:18
  Speaker 1: guys all get out, oh yeah, don't storm out of there.
• 1:51:20
  Speaker 1: We'll be there, so you just, you know, nice and easy,
• 1:51:23
  Speaker 1: make your way there. But before you leave your seats,
• 1:51:25
  Speaker 1: we have a couple of hats and then you'd be like,
• 1:51:27
  Speaker 1: hats for your hat tossed us. Oh, this is the
• 1:51:35
  Speaker 1: met hats town hats. Oh my god, take up your beer. Yeah,
• 1:52:07
  Speaker 1: all right, I'm out, Thank you guys. Yeah. Dember