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BOY, 7, DISAPPEARS FROM SCHOOL SCIENCE FAIR: WHERE'S KYRON? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, live rural Oregon. Stepmommy walks
0:09
Speaker 1: her seven year old down the hall of his elementary school.
0:13
Speaker 2: He's never seen again.
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Speaker 1: Police now insisting step Mommy take a second polygraph, and
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Speaker 1: in a bizarre twist, we learned Stepmommy sending X rated
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Speaker 1: photos to a lover just days after Kiren disappears. Despite
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Speaker 1: all of this, still no sign of seven year old
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Speaker 1: Tyrone Horman. Good evening, I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories,
0:40
Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us.
0:42
Speaker 3: Which started as another school morning soon turn into a
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Speaker 3: nightmare for parents of seven year old Krone Horman, who
0:50
Speaker 3: unexplicably vanished from a school science fair, a suspicious drive,
0:55
Speaker 3: an alleged accomplice, and a murder for higher plant.
0:59
Speaker 4: Where is old kyn Horman.
1:02
Speaker 1: This is a question that has gone through our minds
1:04
Speaker 1: and hearts over and over and over. Joining me an
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Speaker 1: all star panel to make sense of what we are
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Speaker 1: learning about Kyron's disappearance. But first I want to go
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Speaker 1: to a very special guest. Kien's father is joining us.
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Speaker 1: Kin Horman Kane, thank you for being.
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Speaker 4: With us, Hi, thanks for having me.
1:23
Speaker 2: Kine.
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Speaker 1: I know you've been asked this before, specifically my police
1:29
Speaker 1: and many many other law enforcement But could you go
1:32
Speaker 1: back to the day that you when you learn Kiren
1:38
Speaker 1: has disappeared, just seven years old at the time.
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Speaker 5: Yeah, I was at work that day and came home
1:47
Speaker 5: after I was in the office and went to walk
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Speaker 5: down to the bus stop that's down our driveway and
1:58
Speaker 5: went down to meet him when he gets off the bus,
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Speaker 5: something we do pretty much on every day. And the
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Speaker 5: bus came down and the door opened, and the bus
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Speaker 5: driver looked at us a little bit puzzled and had
2:12
Speaker 5: mentioned that he was not on the bus, and that
2:14
Speaker 5: came as a shock, and we talked to her for
2:19
Speaker 5: a few minutes, at which time we ran back up
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Speaker 5: to the house and got in the car and went
2:24
Speaker 5: up to the school to try to find out what
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Speaker 5: was happening while we were making phone calls on the way.
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Speaker 5: So it was a very shocking situation at that point
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Speaker 5: in time. And then went to the school, talked to
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Speaker 5: the teachers and faculty up there, placed the call the
2:41
Speaker 5: nine one one, and that's when the Sheriff's office got
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Speaker 5: involved and just kind of evolved from there.
2:45
Speaker 1: I'm just thinking about that trip, that frantic drive that
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Speaker 1: you made to the school, Kay, I'm projecting.
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Speaker 2: I remember I was in New York and I had just.
2:58
Speaker 1: Gotten the children made in their pajamas and called home
3:03
Speaker 1: and found out my dad was on life support. Within
3:08
Speaker 1: about fifteen minutes through, we're out on the street trying
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Speaker 1: to hail a cab to hopefully get a flight home,
3:14
Speaker 1: that trek, trying to get home, trying to get somewhere
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Speaker 1: to get to my dad. Will you describe those moments
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Speaker 1: where you are frantically on the phone, You're driving, You're
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Speaker 1: trying to get your facts together and find out everything
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Speaker 1: you can. What was going through your mind? What happened
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Speaker 1: on that trip back to the school.
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Speaker 5: Well, it was just a very I don't know that
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Speaker 5: I have a good description of it, very visceral.
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Speaker 4: Panic. Nothing.
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Speaker 5: I mean, sure panic the one thing or one of
3:55
Speaker 5: you know, one of the top things I think most
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Speaker 5: parents fear is their children going missing. You want to
4:01
Speaker 5: protect them, you want to be able to know where
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Speaker 5: they are at all times. And I was just panicked.
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Speaker 5: It was just terror. I don't remember much else. I
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Speaker 5: remember just I think what I've learned since then about
4:16
Speaker 5: the trauma response, I think that it was in just
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Speaker 5: full trauma mode at that point in time. You know,
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Speaker 5: everything just looked different, the scenery looked different. On the
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Speaker 5: drive up, there just everything racing through my mind of
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Speaker 5: you know, all the different scenarios that could play out.
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Speaker 5: But it was honestly, it was terror. I couldn't even
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Speaker 5: really explain the thoughts at that point. It was sheer panic.
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Speaker 1: You know. Another thing Caine Hormon guys joining us is
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Speaker 1: Karen's dad Kane. Many people would say it's not their fault,
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Speaker 1: they just haven't lived through it. Well, it's no big
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Speaker 1: deal that he's not on the bus, because what if
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Speaker 1: he stayed on the playground and was playing in the
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Speaker 1: bus left without him. What if he stayed in one
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Speaker 1: of the rooms and was doing extra assignment. There's something
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Speaker 1: called routine evidence, evidence of routine. Every day I pick
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Speaker 1: up my children at a certain spot at school. If
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Speaker 1: they're not there, there's a problem. It would be for instance,
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Speaker 1: if everybody got together and came here and it's time
5:20
Speaker 1: to get hooked up to you and no, Nancy, that
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Speaker 1: has never happened. It means something. It's significant. How did
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Speaker 1: you know here and here in your head and your
5:34
Speaker 1: heart when he did not get off that bus, when
5:36
Speaker 1: those doors swung open. How did you know instinctively something
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Speaker 1: was very wrong. It wasn't just playing on the playground
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Speaker 1: or staying in a classroom.
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Speaker 5: Yeah, that's exactly how you describe it. The button the
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Speaker 5: bus comes, he gets off. Every day, there's many I'll
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Speaker 5: want to discussion around, you know, whether or not he
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Speaker 5: was at school still, or you know, other things, and
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Speaker 5: he just very routine. Like you said, I don't know
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Speaker 5: that we had a situation where he ever missed the
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Speaker 5: bus up until then, and I'll recall him, you know,
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Speaker 5: being on the playground or in the classroom without us
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Speaker 5: knowing about it. And I think that's the main thing
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Speaker 5: is usually I think in a lot of those circumstances,
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Speaker 5: if there's something after school, you usually notified, and the
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Speaker 5: school's usually really good about doing that.
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Speaker 4: So it was just an immediate.
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Speaker 5: Response that something's definitely off, because we either would have
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Speaker 5: heard or he'd be stepping off those bus steps right now.
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Speaker 5: So exactly what you described, it was pretty much like
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Speaker 5: clockwork every day. And that was just the one day that.
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Speaker 1: I wasn't Okay, well you got to the school. What
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Speaker 1: happened when you got there?
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Speaker 5: I remember trying to locate teachers the three of us
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Speaker 5: were up there, so we were trying to locate and
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Speaker 5: ask questions about, you know, where he was at, if
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Speaker 5: he was still there, kind of the things that we
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Speaker 5: just talked about, just getting a rundown. And they had
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Speaker 5: indicated that he was not there that day, that he
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Speaker 5: had been absent from school from the basically the beginning
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Speaker 5: of the day, which then was an additional shot.
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Speaker 1: Oh my stars, that just makes my stomach hurt.
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Speaker 2: Your whole day, you're going about your.
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Speaker 1: Business, you're working, you're this, you're that, You're making calls,
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Speaker 1: you're sending emails the whole time. You think he's fine
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Speaker 1: at school, and he was not there.
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Speaker 2: He was not checked in.
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Speaker 1: Right when you say the three of you, I can
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Speaker 1: just imagine getting to the school is still kind of
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Speaker 1: drop off pick up, everything's going crazy, and you rushing
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Speaker 1: in probably to the office, going where's Ky and where
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Speaker 1: is he?
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Speaker 2: Where is he? I can't find anything?
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Speaker 1: Get off the bus, and then you learn he wasn't
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Speaker 1: checked in even to his very first class.
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Speaker 2: You said, the three of you, who is with you?
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Speaker 4: His stepmom and my daughter.
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Speaker 1: Okay, let me think this through. You get to the
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Speaker 1: school and who was it that told you he was
8:00
Speaker 1: never even here.
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Speaker 5: Yeah, honestly, I don't remember. I know we had started
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Speaker 5: talking to somebody, and then more people kind of gathered
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Speaker 5: around in the conversation that I don't recall who we
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Speaker 5: talked to first, honestly.
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Speaker 2: To seven years old at the time he goes missing.
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Speaker 1: Everybody thinks he is at school that day, but he's not.
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Speaker 2: What happened that.
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Speaker 6: Morning, Skyline Elementary School in northwest Portland, Oregon is having
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Speaker 6: their annual science fair, so the school is opened about
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Speaker 6: thirty minutes earlier than normal to allow for parents and
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Speaker 6: students to see the different projects created by the students.
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Speaker 6: Arriving at Skyline just after eight am, Kyrine Horman and
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Speaker 6: his stepmother, Terry Horman, go to his classroom to drop
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Speaker 6: off his coat and backpack. Kyrine then chose his stepmother
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Speaker 6: his exhibit called the Red Eyed tree Frog.
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Speaker 1: So Kyen Horman at school and at nuwell joining us
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Speaker 1: k XAL news host of speaking freely with an at
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Speaker 1: newel and thank you for being with us. But there's
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Speaker 1: no question he was at school for this pre school
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Speaker 1: science fair. Now interesting, A lot of times we don't
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Speaker 1: have that distinction. This was all happening before first period,
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Speaker 1: before he goes into his homeroom.
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Speaker 2: Teacher was his science fair? Explain?
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Speaker 7: Yeah, that was an event in which there were a
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Speaker 7: lot of people who came from throughout the community, and
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Speaker 7: there wasn't a lot of what you would say supervision.
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Speaker 7: There were people coming in and out because there was
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Speaker 7: a science fair, and the adults who were coming in
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Speaker 7: weren't really being monitored very much.
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Speaker 2: Crime stories with Nancy Grace came Horman with me Kirn's dad.
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Speaker 1: So that was kind of a big morning for him
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Speaker 1: taking in the big science project. I know when we
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Speaker 1: have that with our twins, it's a big ordeal. Try
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Speaker 1: to get everything there, don't leave anything behind, don't crush
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Speaker 1: it or hurt it on the way to school. How
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Speaker 1: was that morning before he left for school? Was anything
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Speaker 1: at all unusual?
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Speaker 5: No, not from my perspective. We had talked that morning
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Speaker 5: before he went up to the school, before I went
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Speaker 5: to work, We talked outside. He came out with me
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Speaker 5: to the car before I got in and left. I
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Speaker 5: told him that I loved him to have a wonderful
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Speaker 5: day at the exposition and that I would see him
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Speaker 5: after work and we talk all about it. So it
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Speaker 5: was just another pretty much normal day.
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Speaker 1: What more do we know about what happened at the
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Speaker 1: school that morning?
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Speaker 2: Listen?
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Speaker 8: Terry Horman has raised Karen since he was an infant,
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Speaker 8: and she takes a picture of Karen standing in front
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Speaker 8: of his project, posting the photo on Facebook. The two
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Speaker 8: walk around the classes looking at other students' projects and
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Speaker 8: see many other parents and children who have arrived early
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Speaker 8: for the science fair. Terry Hormon volunteers her time helping
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Speaker 8: Karen's teacher, Christina Porter, and Porter sees Karen and Terry
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Speaker 8: Hormon in Kiren's classroom that morning, and another teacher SE's
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Speaker 8: Karen and Terry in another classroom before the eight forty
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Speaker 8: five am school bell rings.
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Speaker 1: Caine Horman explain to me your understanding of what happened
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Speaker 1: that morning at the science expo and how many times
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Speaker 1: he was signed. I mean, I see the picture, I
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Speaker 1: know he was there, but now I'm hearing he was
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Speaker 1: in another classroom.
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Speaker 2: What's your understanding of his movements that morning?
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Speaker 5: Yeah, so based on what I understand, again, this is
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Speaker 5: what I remember being told that they arrived at the school,
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Speaker 5: that they went to the classroom where his project was
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Speaker 5: on display, that's the photo that we've all seen already
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Speaker 5: with him standing in front. I did see that photo
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Speaker 5: later that day on our camera as well. There was
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Speaker 5: a couple other pictures of other things in the room,
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Speaker 5: from what I remember, So they did look at some
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Speaker 5: other projects in the room again from what I recall,
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Speaker 5: and then there was a description of them walking to
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Speaker 5: other classrooms and looking at other projects in those rooms.
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Speaker 5: I don't remember. I don't recall which teacher it was
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Speaker 5: that they went into. I think they went in the
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Speaker 5: multiple rooms from what I remember and what I was told.
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Speaker 5: And then then there was a discussion about them parting
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Speaker 5: ways up in the hall by the office, and he
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Speaker 5: supposedly walked down the hall back towards his classroom and
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Speaker 5: she left the building again according to what I was told.
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Speaker 5: I don't know for a fact what happened, but that
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Speaker 5: that's what I remember as the kind of the described
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Speaker 5: overview of what happened there.
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Speaker 4: And again I.
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Speaker 5: Did see photos of the classroom in a few others,
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Speaker 5: but that's what I remember.
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Speaker 1: Okay, I'm understanding something really For the first time, this
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Speaker 1: expo wasn't in one big room like the gymnasium or
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Speaker 1: the auditorium. This was it was a different class classrooms.
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Speaker 1: So you would walk from classroom to classroom looking at
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Speaker 1: various other projects, you know, sizing up yours compared to them.
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Speaker 1: Did anybody have a really great idea or really bad idea?
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Speaker 1: You could talk about it at the supper table that night.
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Speaker 1: So they Kyra specifically and the stepmom are going from
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Speaker 1: room to room looking at the projects. Is that correct?
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Speaker 4: Yeah, from my understanding, that's correct.
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Speaker 1: Yes, Okay, I find that very significant because it's not
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Speaker 1: a group of people in one gymnasium, one gym with
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Speaker 1: all the projects and fifty people, one hundred people seeing Kiren.
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Speaker 2: He's walking from room to room, in and out. Everybody's
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Speaker 2: milling around looking.
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Speaker 1: Parents are there from all over looking at their children's
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Speaker 1: science projects. It's easy to get lost in the shuffle.
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Speaker 1: It's you know, you might as Zobe walking to the
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Speaker 1: Grand Central station. There's a million kids running around. There's
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Speaker 1: parents that don't really know each other, who knows what happened,
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Speaker 1: Who could really get a good grip on the last
14:16
Speaker 1: time Tyron is sane.
14:19
Speaker 2: It's not like he disappeared off the bus. He was there.
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Speaker 2: He was there. Guys, What more do we know about
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Speaker 2: that morning.
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Speaker 6: Listen, as Terry Horman leaves the school, she sees Kyrone
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Speaker 6: walking down a hallway toward his classroom inside Skyline Elementary,
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Speaker 6: Kyne has already placed his book bag and coat in
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Speaker 6: Miss Porter's classroom when he first arrived for the science fair.
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Speaker 6: Miss Porter starts her class like every day. Then the
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Speaker 6: children moved to reading group, then recess, then lunch. Around
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Speaker 6: three pm, the children, tired from a busy day, get
14:49
Speaker 6: on the bus to go home. Terry Hormon and her stepson,
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Speaker 6: Kyrone Horman, arrived at the school science fair the morning
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Speaker 6: of June fourth, twenty ten. Stepmom claims she saw Kyrone
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Speaker 6: walk to a classroom, but teachers mark him absent, alleging
15:02
Speaker 6: the little boy never made it to class. Police commence
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Speaker 6: an exhaustive search around a two mile radius of the
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Speaker 6: school that includes a remote island along the Columbia River.
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Speaker 2: Where is Kyne?
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Speaker 1: You think when you take your child to school everything
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Speaker 1: is safe and sound.
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Speaker 2: Not in this case.
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Speaker 1: Joining me an all star panel, but straight back to
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Speaker 1: Kyn's father, Kane Horman, joining us cain, what did stepmom
15:28
Speaker 1: Terry tell you about what happened?
15:31
Speaker 4: Yeah? So it was.
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Speaker 5: We talked about the going to the room at the school,
15:36
Speaker 5: doing the photos, walking around the different rooms. I actually
15:42
Speaker 5: do recall, after thinking about it a little bit more.
15:44
Speaker 5: I think it was this first grade teacher that they
15:46
Speaker 5: saw in his room. And one of the interesting things
15:50
Speaker 5: about the schools there is an upstairs and the downstairs
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Speaker 5: with classrooms, which I guess I didn't mention before. So
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Speaker 5: she had talked about starting in the upstairs rooms to
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Speaker 5: ring the science projects in those rooms, then going downstairs
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Speaker 5: and viewing the projects there and then and it's been
16:08
Speaker 5: a while, my memory may not be what it used
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Speaker 5: to be, but for some reason I remember her talking
16:13
Speaker 5: about them separating and meeting because there's different stairwells to
16:16
Speaker 5: go back up to the upper level. Where they went
16:19
Speaker 5: back up to the upper level and met near the office,
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Speaker 5: and that's where they parted, and she saw or talked
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Speaker 5: about him walking down the hallway back to his class
16:29
Speaker 5: I don't recall her saying she saw him doing that,
16:32
Speaker 5: but they met there and then separated. At that point
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Speaker 5: in the school, it's kind of a central the office
16:37
Speaker 5: is kind of a central spot in the upstairs. And
16:41
Speaker 5: then she went and did some of her daily things
16:44
Speaker 5: that she had on her list from the school. So
16:47
Speaker 5: that was the last time that she had said that
16:49
Speaker 5: she had saw him was in that central meeting place
16:53
Speaker 5: by the office.
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Speaker 2: And as the teacher to whom you're referring.
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Speaker 5: The teacher the names escaping me at the moment, I apologize.
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Speaker 2: That's okay.
17:01
Speaker 1: I just want to make sure you're talking about the
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Speaker 1: teacher says she saw him in that central area and
17:05
Speaker 1: she took off.
17:06
Speaker 2: To go do all her duties. Right.
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Speaker 5: No, I don't recall a teacher saying that That's what
17:10
Speaker 5: I was told by his stepmom is that they had
17:14
Speaker 5: they met up there and separated there.
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Speaker 1: Gotcha, now, I understand Also to an mule joining us
17:20
Speaker 1: kate x L news that at least one person saw
17:28
Speaker 1: stepmother Terry leaving the building. How do we know what
17:33
Speaker 1: time she left? Did she leave alone? Who is confirming that?
17:38
Speaker 7: Actually that information came from the mother of Kiren. She
17:41
Speaker 7: said that there were several witnesses who have told her
17:45
Speaker 7: that they did witness him leaving in a truck with
17:49
Speaker 7: the stepmother. So that's that's basically where that information came from.
17:54
Speaker 1: Speaking of Kyn's mother, Desiree, Listen.
17:58
Speaker 9: The investigation continue used to be on track and is
18:01
Speaker 9: progressing toward finding Kyen. We remain confident in the actions
18:06
Speaker 9: and constant commitment of law enforcement in the mission to
18:10
Speaker 9: find our son.
18:12
Speaker 2: We love you, Kyen.
18:14
Speaker 9: Never give up, Pope. We are all coming to get you,
18:18
Speaker 9: to bring you home.
18:19
Speaker 1: Back to Caine Horman Cain, did Terry ever mentioned to
18:26
Speaker 1: you leaving the school with Kirene.
18:30
Speaker 4: No, not in any conversation that we had.
18:31
Speaker 1: What do you know about potential witnesses that say they
18:34
Speaker 1: observed her leaving with him?
18:36
Speaker 5: Personally, I have no first hand account of anybody having
18:43
Speaker 5: seen him in the parking lot or her or them
18:46
Speaker 5: leaving together. I've heard a lot of second hand information
18:51
Speaker 5: that there's a number of different accounts. There's accounts of
18:56
Speaker 5: people seeing all three of them leaving because my was
19:00
Speaker 5: with her as well. There's accounts of seeing him by
19:05
Speaker 5: himself in the parking lot and getting into vehicles. I've
19:07
Speaker 5: heard different kinds of vehicles, not just a truck. And
19:10
Speaker 5: I've heard, you know, other other accounts of people witnessing
19:15
Speaker 5: her leaving the school by herself.
19:18
Speaker 4: I don't.
19:19
Speaker 5: I haven't heard any directly, so that's it's all second
19:23
Speaker 5: had information. I apologize but I don't have any firsthand
19:26
Speaker 5: witness accounts that have been dictated to me personally in
19:30
Speaker 5: that instance. But it's been a little bit of everything, to.
19:32
Speaker 1: Be honest, Nor do I in fact me reports state
19:38
Speaker 1: the step mom leaves without him, that she's observed leaving
19:42
Speaker 1: without him.
19:44
Speaker 2: How many times.
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Speaker 1: I can I ask you, Kane, did you go over
19:49
Speaker 1: it and over it and over it with stepmom Terry?
19:53
Speaker 5: Many many times exhaustively. There was a lot of discussion
19:59
Speaker 5: that was occurring post the interaction with the folks at
20:05
Speaker 5: the school and then with law enforcement, and it was
20:08
Speaker 5: pretty much a daily thing trying to walk through, you know,
20:11
Speaker 5: who they saw, recount the steps, making sure that One
20:18
Speaker 5: of my biggest concerns was, you know, did they actually
20:20
Speaker 5: meet up in part ways at the office. Didn't really
20:24
Speaker 5: ever get firsthand information that confirmed their partying at that location.
20:29
Speaker 5: So there was just a lot of conversation about trying
20:31
Speaker 5: to understand exactly what happened, where it happened, how it happened,
20:37
Speaker 5: and then including after as well.
20:39
Speaker 4: So there was a lot.
20:42
Speaker 10: Kirn, who was seven years old, disappeared from Skyline Elementary
20:46
Speaker 10: School in northwest Portland from day one.
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Speaker 11: The Molnoma County Sheriff's Office has worked in close partnership
20:52
Speaker 11: with the Molnoma County District Attorney's Office, the FBI, and
20:56
Speaker 11: other agencies to find Kyron.
20:58
Speaker 10: As parents, we can't imagine the pain and struggle Kyen's
21:01
Speaker 10: family has experienced and continues to experience without him.
21:05
Speaker 11: And that's why we have never given up or slowed
21:08
Speaker 11: down and trying to find Kyron, and.
21:11
Speaker 2: Neither have we.
21:12
Speaker 1: The truth is out there. Someone knows what happened to
21:17
Speaker 1: Kyrien Horman. And I'm telling you right now. Guys with
21:22
Speaker 1: me is Kyvin's father, Kan Jarrett Farantino joining us. Renowned
21:27
Speaker 1: former prosecutor, host of True Crime, Boss Jarrett, thank you
21:31
Speaker 1: for being with us. It seems to me that we
21:34
Speaker 1: understand the timeline very well.
21:37
Speaker 2: Kin has filled it out for us.
21:40
Speaker 1: I understand everything up until the point the stepmother leaves.
21:47
Speaker 1: That's when things begin to get mrquis agree or disagree?
21:54
Speaker 4: I agree one percent.
21:56
Speaker 12: It's not clear whether or not Kyeren left the build
22:00
Speaker 12: building with her, although Terry, the stepmom, claims she left.
22:04
Speaker 12: I run at school, heading toward his classroom and she
22:07
Speaker 12: left with their little girl. That is the golden moment.
22:13
Speaker 12: This case really began Nancy, and there's some discrepancy in
22:16
Speaker 12: Terry's story and how things played out.
22:19
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know. Dan Corsentino, former police chief and former sheriff,
22:24
Speaker 1: also served on US Homeland Security Senior Advisory Board now
22:29
Speaker 1: PI at dancorsantino dot com. Dan, right there, I'm telling
22:33
Speaker 1: you that is the critical moment, the critical moment when
22:37
Speaker 1: suddenly nobody's sure, what where.
22:41
Speaker 2: Where did he go that way or that way?
22:43
Speaker 1: Was the stepmom with him not with him? That is
22:47
Speaker 1: where the problem lies right there. You've seen it a
22:51
Speaker 1: million times. You've been a sheriff, you've been a police chief,
22:55
Speaker 1: you've been on Homeland Security. Right there, when the stories
22:58
Speaker 1: began to go in different directions. Everything's going along normally.
23:05
Speaker 2: Dad leaves for work.
23:07
Speaker 1: Everything's fine, they get to the school, they make it to.
23:10
Speaker 2: The science fair.
23:11
Speaker 1: But it's suddenly when step mommy leaves, that's when everything
23:16
Speaker 1: hits the fan.
23:18
Speaker 13: Dan Corsantino, Absolutely, that was the defining moment, that was
23:22
Speaker 13: the beginning of the journey in this sad case.
23:26
Speaker 4: What is really really interesting about.
23:29
Speaker 13: This is the comfort level that kyn had and who
23:34
Speaker 13: he had the comfort level with, and there was only
23:38
Speaker 13: one person on that particular morning when he was at
23:43
Speaker 13: the school with Terry. That was the person he had
23:47
Speaker 13: a comfort level with. Obviously teachers, students and everything. But
23:51
Speaker 13: unless this was a stranger abduction, which I don't think
23:55
Speaker 13: it was, that was individual that he had the comfort
23:59
Speaker 13: level with. And everything changed as her story continues to change.
24:04
Speaker 1: You know, you just mentioned something really important to be
24:06
Speaker 1: in Coursentino. You said, unless this was a stranger abduction,
24:09
Speaker 1: let's just talk about the reality of that possibility. Doctor
24:13
Speaker 1: Shery Schwartz joining me. She is a forensic psychologist and
24:17
Speaker 1: her specialty is criminal behavior. She's the author of Criminal
24:21
Speaker 1: Behavior and Where Law and Psychology intersect.
24:28
Speaker 2: Doctor Sherry Schwartz, thank you for being with us.
24:30
Speaker 1: That is not a possibility that there was a stranger
24:36
Speaker 1: abduction in the middle of the elementary school science fair.
24:41
Speaker 2: Okay, the science fair was.
24:43
Speaker 1: Ending, the eight forty five bail was going off for
24:47
Speaker 1: everyone to go to class.
24:49
Speaker 2: What stranger? What? Who?
24:51
Speaker 1: No stranger is in that building. Everyone is dispersing and leaving.
24:57
Speaker 1: The only one there where the story goes sid ways
25:00
Speaker 1: is with the stepmother. Doctor Sherry Schwartz.
25:04
Speaker 4: Yes, that's correct.
25:05
Speaker 14: She's the last one that was seen with Karen and
25:10
Speaker 14: Kiren hasn't been seen since. And when people use words
25:15
Speaker 14: like retaliation when we're talking about a missing child, they
25:19
Speaker 14: are missing stepchild that they've known since an infant, every
25:23
Speaker 14: alarm in my brain goes off, every alarm. You're right,
25:27
Speaker 14: doctor Sherry Schwartz.
25:28
Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, let's take a listen to
25:31
Speaker 1: stepmom Terry on our friend doctor Field's program.
25:37
Speaker 15: This was in retaliation for something that he was doing
25:40
Speaker 15: that I found out about while this is happening. And
25:43
Speaker 15: this particular person was actually his friend and sent to
25:48
Speaker 15: the house. So this was a setup.
25:51
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, a setup retaliation.
25:55
Speaker 2: What is she even talking about.
25:57
Speaker 1: Listen to more of the stepmom speaking to our friend
26:02
Speaker 1: doctor Phil.
26:03
Speaker 15: Well, that would be because the law enforcement told us
26:08
Speaker 15: to go to do what we told us to do,
26:10
Speaker 15: things that we normally do. So they want you to
26:13
Speaker 15: go grocery shopping, they want you to go to the gym.
26:16
Speaker 15: Specifically told both Kane and I and he was with
26:18
Speaker 15: me that day when we will win it.
26:21
Speaker 1: Okay, what she's talking about, because she'd possibly be talking
26:26
Speaker 1: about the X rated photo she's sending a lover within
26:31
Speaker 1: just days after Kirine disappearing.
26:35
Speaker 2: I mean, Kine, I don't know what you went through.
26:39
Speaker 1: I thought I knew everything about grief when my fiance
26:42
Speaker 1: was murdered. I couldn't eat, I couldn't sleep, I could
26:46
Speaker 1: barely speak. I couldn't stand to hear music or TV
26:49
Speaker 1: or radio or even the clock ticking.
26:51
Speaker 2: I would vomit and vomit. I couldn't keep anything on
26:54
Speaker 2: my stomach.
26:56
Speaker 1: The last thing I could have thought about is sending
27:00
Speaker 1: X rayed photos of myself to some guy.
27:04
Speaker 2: I mean, that's just not where your head is at
27:07
Speaker 2: a time like that.
27:08
Speaker 5: The first thing that I wanted to do was to
27:10
Speaker 5: cooperate with law enforcement as much as possible. And when
27:13
Speaker 5: I wasn't doing that, I was sitting in another room,
27:16
Speaker 5: staring at the floor and crying. For the first couple
27:19
Speaker 5: of days, I think I slept for maybe twenty minutes.
27:22
Speaker 5: The night that he went missing, we had a house
27:25
Speaker 5: full of law enforcement. One of the sheriff's officers that
27:29
Speaker 5: I had gotten to know over that period of time
27:33
Speaker 5: sat across from me in the room, and I think
27:35
Speaker 5: I might have knotted off for twenty minutes. Maybe everything
27:39
Speaker 5: was do everything possible, as fast as possible. Whatever we
27:42
Speaker 5: needed to do, and it was just being ready and
27:46
Speaker 5: available to go through the process that they conduct through
27:49
Speaker 5: the investigation as much as we could. Like I said,
27:53
Speaker 5: when I wasn't doing that, I was basically sitting there
27:55
Speaker 5: crying for the first and that was the first few days.
27:58
Speaker 4: It was.
28:01
Speaker 5: The grief was overwhelming, and at the same time, like
28:04
Speaker 5: we talked about in the ride up to the school,
28:06
Speaker 5: in my brain was just frantically trying to figure out,
28:09
Speaker 5: you know, what could we possibly be doing?
28:11
Speaker 4: Is this real?
28:13
Speaker 5: It's still just really hadn't sunk in all the way,
28:16
Speaker 5: but it had at the same time. I don't know
28:18
Speaker 5: if that makes any sense, but just mulling over everything.
28:21
Speaker 5: But yeah, I don't remember sleeping that much for the
28:24
Speaker 5: first week, if not longer, because we were in the
28:27
Speaker 5: middle of the investigation, we were being investigated in all
28:31
Speaker 5: the interviews and everything else that we were trying to
28:34
Speaker 5: get through. I mean, I was not on social media
28:37
Speaker 5: at all that I recall. I don't even recall cracking
28:39
Speaker 5: a laptop. I don't remember being on my phone. I
28:43
Speaker 5: just remember working with the team as much as humanly
28:45
Speaker 5: possible to make progress and on finding him. So the
28:50
Speaker 5: things that you're describing to me, completely foreign to me
28:53
Speaker 5: at that time, and still.
28:56
Speaker 15: It just.
28:58
Speaker 5: Sorry, I don't know how it's answered. It was just
29:01
Speaker 5: it was a very intense period of time. I have
29:03
Speaker 5: no idea how anyone would be in that mindset.
29:06
Speaker 16: Terry alleges she drove along country roads to sooth daughter
29:10
Speaker 16: Kiera's erich the morning of Chirrine's disappearance. Terry's friend Deetie
29:15
Speaker 16: allegedly rushes out of work at the same time as
29:18
Speaker 16: Terry's drive after receiving a mysterious phone call her whereabouts
29:23
Speaker 16: during this time are unknown. Witnesses at the school report
29:27
Speaker 16: an unidentified man in a white pickup truck at the
29:30
Speaker 16: science fair, but his identity remains a mystery.
29:34
Speaker 1: Guys, there's so much misdirection going on right here, so
29:39
Speaker 1: much misdirection. To Annette Newell joining us Katexale news host.
29:45
Speaker 2: Annatt again, thank you for being with us.
29:47
Speaker 1: That parking lot was likely full of parents leaving leaving
29:54
Speaker 1: the science fair, but you are telling me evidence has
30:00
Speaker 1: emerged of at least one witness seeing the stepmother leaving
30:07
Speaker 1: with Tyrone.
30:08
Speaker 2: Is that correct?
30:09
Speaker 7: They were seen out in front of the school by
30:12
Speaker 7: one of Kyron's friends, his grandma and sister as well
30:15
Speaker 7: as his bus driver. They were walking out to the
30:17
Speaker 7: main road, which is where the truck was parked. That
30:20
Speaker 7: witnesses saw Terry and Kyron leaving the school together that
30:23
Speaker 7: morning and heading toward their truck, according to Quayinna. Also,
30:27
Speaker 7: Terry said that she drove around town that day, stopping
30:30
Speaker 7: at the two grocery stores to get medicine for her
30:33
Speaker 7: daughter who wasn't feeling well. Then police found that Terry's
30:37
Speaker 7: phone pained herund Highway thirty north of Portland and that time.
30:41
Speaker 1: Period, Now you're telling me that she in the vehicle
30:45
Speaker 1: in the truck was bought a at not one, but
30:48
Speaker 1: at least two grocery stores. Could the video be highlighted
30:54
Speaker 1: enhanced to see if Kyen was in the car at
30:57
Speaker 1: that time.
30:57
Speaker 7: That's something that they tried to do a bunch of time,
31:00
Speaker 7: and they couldn't conclusively tell whether he was in the
31:03
Speaker 7: car or not.
31:10
Speaker 2: Crime stores with Nancy, Grace, Annett and Neil joining us
31:17
Speaker 2: k x L.
31:18
Speaker 1: And that video depicting the stepmother going to at least
31:24
Speaker 1: to grocery stores, was that immediately upon her leaving the school.
31:28
Speaker 7: Yeah, they do think it fit the timeline of what
31:30
Speaker 7: she was talking about, although there was some other time
31:34
Speaker 7: that they weren't sure if they could definitely connect what
31:38
Speaker 7: she was saying she did versus what she did. But
31:41
Speaker 7: they did find that there was some video of her
31:44
Speaker 7: from surveillance cameras in that area that did show her
31:48
Speaker 7: and show her in the truck.
31:50
Speaker 1: Right question, you mentioned the pinging of her cell phone.
31:54
Speaker 1: Explain to me where her cell phone pained.
31:57
Speaker 7: Yeah, it was an area in north Portland, not far
32:01
Speaker 7: from the school, around Highway thirty which runs north of Portland,
32:06
Speaker 7: and that was that was after she'd spent time driving
32:10
Speaker 7: her daughter around. She said she was driving in that
32:12
Speaker 7: area to settle her daughter down. It's what she told
32:16
Speaker 7: police when they asked why she was why the phone
32:19
Speaker 7: was paying around in that area.
32:21
Speaker 2: To Kaye Horman, this is Kyen's dad.
32:24
Speaker 1: When you asked her what had happened that morning, did
32:27
Speaker 1: she describe this circuitous route driving around with the daughter
32:30
Speaker 1: in the car to help her earache.
32:32
Speaker 5: Yes, she did. She talked about the retailers she stopped at.
32:36
Speaker 5: I want to say there was a gem stop. Again,
32:39
Speaker 5: I don't recall, it's been a while, but she did
32:41
Speaker 5: outline that. She outlined a few of the country roads
32:44
Speaker 5: that they were driving on. She wasn't overly specific about
32:47
Speaker 5: which ones. There was a few she talked about, but
32:50
Speaker 5: after that it was just driving around. But yeah, I
32:52
Speaker 5: was familiar with that kind of timetable.
32:56
Speaker 3: The fourteen year investigation has turned up no clues as
32:59
Speaker 3: to little Karen's whereabouts, but family and investigators suspect this
33:05
Speaker 3: was no accident. Stepmom Terry maintains her innocence as the
33:10
Speaker 3: Hormon family continues their desperate search for answers.
33:14
Speaker 1: We know the stepmother has never been formally charged in
33:19
Speaker 1: Karen Horman's disappearance.
33:22
Speaker 2: She has become the.
33:24
Speaker 1: Target of public suspicion. But there seems to be a
33:28
Speaker 1: chain of alleged misconduct really since the moment Kiren goes missing.
33:35
Speaker 1: Now to you, doctor Sherry Schwartz, I know that everyone
33:40
Speaker 1: reacts differently to pain or suffering, or loss or even stress.
33:47
Speaker 1: But this series of alleged misconduct does not bode well,
33:54
Speaker 1: doctor Sherry, not at all.
33:56
Speaker 14: And this isn't to me. This isn't anything that would
33:59
Speaker 14: cost a to the trauma response or a grief response.
34:03
Speaker 14: This is very specific behavior. She's talking about retaliation against
34:09
Speaker 14: Kirn's dad. She is saying things like the police told
34:14
Speaker 14: her things like to go to the gym. Now, I
34:17
Speaker 14: don't know if they did or they didn't, but I
34:18
Speaker 14: would find that very strange because most parents are out looking.
34:23
Speaker 14: And also, Nancy, if I lost somebody's sunglasses that didn't
34:27
Speaker 14: belong to me, I'd be scouring the neighborhood to find
34:31
Speaker 14: out where did I leave them, let alone losing someone's child.
34:35
Speaker 1: I also understand that Terry Lynn Moulton formerly Terry Horman,
34:41
Speaker 1: faced grand theft firearm charges stemming from an incident in Marysville, California,
34:47
Speaker 1: regarding a stolen gun.
34:50
Speaker 2: It's just like.
34:51
Speaker 1: One thing after the next, and Againcy is not ever,
34:55
Speaker 1: she's never been named a suspect, a formal suspect.
35:00
Speaker 2: And the disappearance of Kiren.
35:02
Speaker 1: You know, Caine, you earlier mentioned that you and the
35:06
Speaker 1: whole family were being investigated.
35:09
Speaker 2: That's SOP standard operating procedure.
35:12
Speaker 1: When someone goes missing, the first place police look, as
35:15
Speaker 1: they should, is at the family members, particularly the male members. Statistically,
35:22
Speaker 1: that's typically who did it tell me about being the
35:26
Speaker 1: target of an investigation.
35:28
Speaker 2: Yourself while your son is missing? What was that like?
35:35
Speaker 5: The one way I can describe it is. It was
35:37
Speaker 5: something that that I needed to do. I knew I
35:40
Speaker 5: didn't have any involvements.
35:42
Speaker 4: I knew that.
35:44
Speaker 5: Really at that point, it wasn't about me. Is really
35:46
Speaker 5: all I can say is about him, and I did
35:49
Speaker 5: everything I was asked to do as fast and quickly
35:54
Speaker 5: and urgently as possible to clear myself in the investigation
35:58
Speaker 5: because I wanted them to be focused on who it
36:01
Speaker 5: so it was I don't know, I set aside there
36:05
Speaker 5: was not really a lot of emotions for me on
36:07
Speaker 5: that front, other than they indicated the process and my
36:10
Speaker 5: job was to clear the process, and that's absolutely what
36:13
Speaker 5: I wanted to do, and again as urgently as possible.
36:16
Speaker 5: The focus was on him, finding him as quickly as possible.
36:19
Speaker 5: It really didn't have to do with me as far
36:22
Speaker 5: as how I felt about what was happening. It was
36:24
Speaker 5: just what I needed to do as his parent to
36:26
Speaker 5: help him get recovered as early as possible. So it
36:29
Speaker 5: was basically my mission to do every and anything asked
36:33
Speaker 5: to clear that process and continue to move forward. So
36:37
Speaker 5: it was a lot less about emotion at that point.
36:39
Speaker 5: I know I described the first couple like twenty four
36:41
Speaker 5: to forty eight hours just being kind of unresponsive unless
36:45
Speaker 5: I was being interviewed with investigators, crying and all that stuff,
36:49
Speaker 5: And as we started to get further into the process,
36:52
Speaker 5: I kind of had to set that aside and become
36:54
Speaker 5: more focused on.
36:57
Speaker 4: What needed to be.
36:57
Speaker 5: Done, the task that needed to be done, and not
36:59
Speaker 5: being emotional about how I felt. At that particular point
37:02
Speaker 5: in time. I missed him. I was frantic, but at
37:05
Speaker 5: the same time I needed them to focus on who
37:07
Speaker 5: actually did this. So it was about clearing. It was
37:10
Speaker 5: one hundred percent just about clearing everything that I needed
37:14
Speaker 5: to clear so we could stay focused on him.
37:16
Speaker 1: I don't even no words to describe what I think
37:20
Speaker 1: you've been through. But now, what is your message to
37:26
Speaker 1: anybody out there that may know anything about Tyen Well First.
37:32
Speaker 5: And foremost, Kiren, if you're still out there, we're still
37:35
Speaker 5: looking for you, So I will always lead with that.
37:38
Speaker 5: No one's given up. We are still looking. We haven't
37:42
Speaker 5: given up. We love you, we miss you. We are
37:45
Speaker 5: still active, the investigations active, We're still looking to everyone
37:49
Speaker 5: out there. Keep recording tips. We have tips coming in
37:54
Speaker 5: through the phone still to this day, lots on email.
37:58
Speaker 5: There's a website that I I'm sure that you guys
38:01
Speaker 5: will have the information for that. The Sheriff's office is
38:04
Speaker 5: put up now in addition to the one that we've
38:06
Speaker 5: put up for the past fourteen years, they recently put
38:09
Speaker 5: up a new one that gives a rough timeline, gives
38:13
Speaker 5: the tip line, it gives an email tip line. Would
38:16
Speaker 5: encourage everyone to submit tips, no matter how big or
38:19
Speaker 5: small you think they are. Try not to rule them out,
38:22
Speaker 5: try not to filter them, Just submit them and the
38:24
Speaker 5: investigators will do that work. But urge anybody who feels
38:28
Speaker 5: that they witnessed anything, no matter how long ago it was,
38:31
Speaker 5: to submit that information through the tip line, and again,
38:35
Speaker 5: don't try to filter it out, don't try to vet
38:38
Speaker 5: it for yourself, give it, pass it along. So I
38:41
Speaker 5: would highly encourage that. The other thing is there are
38:44
Speaker 5: age progress photos on the website. There's I think the
38:47
Speaker 5: original and three others. He's not seven anymore, and so
38:50
Speaker 5: that's one thing that we try to remind folks is
38:53
Speaker 5: that he's older. He may or may not have his
38:55
Speaker 5: glasses right now as well, so if he is still
38:58
Speaker 5: alive and he is out there with somebody, you know,
39:00
Speaker 5: we're trying to get people familiarized with those age progressed
39:03
Speaker 5: with and without the glasses. So if they do see
39:05
Speaker 5: a similarity that they call on that tip as well.
39:08
Speaker 5: But the tip line that both the phone and the
39:10
Speaker 5: email are open. They're still actively getting tips. Please continue
39:14
Speaker 5: to submit them as much as you can.
39:17
Speaker 1: You can, of course call Enigma or one eight hundred
39:20
Speaker 1: the Lost, one eight hundred the Lost. There is a
39:26
Speaker 1: fifty thousand dollars reward for information leading to the resolution
39:32
Speaker 1: of Kirene's disappearance, a fifty thousand dollar reward. Thank you
39:39
Speaker 1: for being with us, joining us in the search for
39:43
Speaker 1: Kiren Horman Nancy Grace signing off, goodbye friend,