Latest / It's Mom O'Clock / EPISODE 43: Hope, Heartbreak, and IVF with special guest Nicole Dougherty

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EPISODE 43: Hope, Heartbreak, and IVF with special guest Nicole Dougherty · It's Mom O'Clock

• 0:01
  Speaker A: Hello.
• 0:02
  Speaker B: You guys, stop. Isn't Mom o' clock yet? I'm going crazy.
• 0:08
  Speaker C: Heck yeah. It's Mom o' clock somewhere. Hi, how are ya?
• 0:17
  Speaker A: I'm doing fine. We're back.
• 0:20
  Speaker B: We're back. We had to bring in the big dog.
• 0:23
  Speaker C: Well, honestly, today's gonna be a really fun episode. So welcome back to Mama clock.
• 0:28
  Speaker B: We're here.
• 0:29
  Speaker C: We're ready to rock. And we have a special guest, Nicole Doherty. Hi. Welcome to Mom o'. Clock. We're so happy to have you.
• 0:38
  Speaker A: Yay.
• 0:39
  Speaker C: So we're going to talk all things IVF today. Hope, heartbreak, and what no one tells you.
• 0:47
  Speaker B: We're going to keep it. We're going to get serious. We're going to get fluffy.
• 0:51
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 0:51
  Speaker C: We're going to talk all the things. And then we had to bring in
• 0:53
  Speaker B: a guest for this because to be honest with you, Dom and I, we haven't gone through this before, thank God. And we. I mean, we have people near and dear to us that have, but we need to. We want to talk all about it and we need someone who really knows
• 1:07
  Speaker C: what's up and understand it. I feel like we could read all we want, but unless you go through it, you just don't know.
• 1:13
  Speaker B: And it's something like so many moms go through it and some people are scared to talk about it. Everyone goes through their own journey and it's just really nice to have you on here.
• 1:22
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 1:23
  Speaker C: So thank you for coming on here.
• 1:24
  Speaker A: Thank you guys for having me.
• 1:25
  Speaker C: Yay. Well, just to give a little background, this isn't Doherty. Fun fact, we went to high school together. Yay. She has a 15 month old Savannah. Cutie pie. She's married and she's a stay at home mom just like us.
• 1:37
  Speaker B: And she's also a baby. She's not even 30.
• 1:39
  Speaker C: And she's not even 30. I love it.
• 1:42
  Speaker A: I appreciate that.
• 1:44
  Speaker C: Best compliment ever.
• 1:45
  Speaker A: Yeah, right?
• 1:45
  Speaker C: I love it. So let's get into it. Honestly, let's just talk all about what IVF is. Sure.
• 1:52
  Speaker B: Did you know that one in six women go through it?
• 1:55
  Speaker C: I didn't know that.
• 1:56
  Speaker A: Yeah, it's true.
• 1:57
  Speaker B: It is. Yeah.
• 1:58
  Speaker A: More people than you know. You know, like people walking around.
• 2:01
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 2:02
  Speaker A: Silent, you know, I mean, silent burden.
• 2:04
  Speaker B: I have a core group of girlfriends and almost all of them have gone through it.
• 2:08
  Speaker A: And it's crazy. Like you're the odd one out.
• 2:10
  Speaker C: Right.
• 2:10
  Speaker A: Isn't that crazy?
• 2:11
  Speaker B: No, it is.
• 2:12
  Speaker A: You know, it's so interesting because, you know, one of the things that I read that I saw was that IVF and Women who are going through infertility and have just underneath depression, just underneath what people who have cancer are going through.
• 2:29
  Speaker C: It's so hard.
• 2:30
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 2:31
  Speaker B: Wow.
• 2:31
  Speaker A: So hard.
• 2:32
  Speaker C: I can't believe the statistics are that high in depression and stuff.
• 2:36
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 2:37
  Speaker C: That's insane. Yeah.
• 2:38
  Speaker A: Because it.
• 2:38
  Speaker C: But it makes sense.
• 2:39
  Speaker B: I mean, it makes sense. Especially if it's everything you ever wanted and your body's not letting you do it.
• 2:44
  Speaker A: You have no control.
• 2:45
  Speaker C: Right, Right.
• 2:46
  Speaker A: You have no control. And like, I feel like when you plan things to be one way your whole life and then they go another way, it's heartbreaking. Yeah.
• 2:52
  Speaker C: True. It's so true. It's like, almost as if. And this is no comparison. But I only relate in this way. Like, I plan to have a natural birth and I had a C section.
• 2:59
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 3:00
  Speaker C: I didn't plan to have a C section.
• 3:01
  Speaker A: No.
• 3:02
  Speaker C: The natural way is naturally.
• 3:04
  Speaker A: Absolutely.
• 3:04
  Speaker C: So it's kind of like you.
• 3:05
  Speaker A: Absolutely. I didn't.
• 3:07
  Speaker C: It's fine. But it does sit with you.
• 3:08
  Speaker A: When you picture your whole life doing something one way and then it happens another way, it's upsetting. It's a loss.
• 3:14
  Speaker C: It's a loss. It is. And I think maybe that. Is that. You think the reason why no one talks about it.
• 3:18
  Speaker B: Yes. But thank God for ivf, because.
• 3:20
  Speaker A: Thank God. Yes.
• 3:21
  Speaker B: I mean, I remember back in the 90s, my mom had infertility struggles and it was just coming up, like, she was just about to start it, and she actually adopted my brother and then had me. Like, I was a miracle baby. But she was ready to, like, go full on ivf. And it wasn't. It wasn't talked about. It wasn't. It was very, like. I mean, it was very expensive and not a lot of people even knew what it was.
• 3:46
  Speaker C: So I feel like there's so much. Obviously we're going to go through what actually happens when you go through ivf, but how did this start for you? Tell us your story.
• 3:56
  Speaker A: Yeah. So back. And so my husband and I got married. And then a year later, we were like, all right, like, let's try. Like, let's see what happens.
• 4:06
  Speaker C: Let's try.
• 4:08
  Speaker A: We got pregnant a month into.
• 4:11
  Speaker C: Wow.
• 4:11
  Speaker A: And we were so shocked. Like, I was on birth control for 10 years.
• 4:14
  Speaker C: So you got off birth control?
• 4:15
  Speaker A: Got off birth control. Realized I knew nothing about myself, nothing about my body, nothing about how my body worked. Like, you know when you're ovulating, like, you don't know what that looks like, but, like, I didn't know then what it looked like. I knew nothing about it. So it was so interesting that, like,
• 4:29
  Speaker B: I was like, you're like learning yourself.
• 4:30
  Speaker A: Yeah, I wasn't even getting periods at that point.
• 4:32
  Speaker C: Right. So 10 years consecutively, you're on birth control.
• 4:37
  Speaker A: Yes. And so I came off of it. We got pregnant right away. We went to our eight week appointment. There was a heartbeat, like, everything was great. And then we went back for. For a 10 week appointment and the heartbeat was gone. So we, you know, I was there, we were getting the ultrasound, and it actually wasn't my doctor doing the ultrasound. It was a woman who was like, working under her, like, shadowing her. And she said, I'll be right back. It was just silence, you know, like it was. The ultrasound was happening and there was silence on the ultrasound. And I looked at my husband and I said, something's wrong. Yeah, what are you talking about? Nothing's wrong. And I was like, no, something's wrong. And, you know, she actually, my doctor was at St Barnabas with a woman who was giving birth, so we had to wait for her to come back.
• 5:34
  Speaker C: You just laid there on call.
• 5:35
  Speaker B: Doctors.
• 5:37
  Speaker A: The two of us just sat there and. And, oh, my gosh, we were heartbroken. We knew, you know, like, you don't have to tell us. So then she. She came back and my sister came and met us there. And, you know, I remember my sister saying to me, you're gonna fall asleep tonight, you're gonna wake up tomorrow, it's gonna hit you again. And, like, you have to know that that's gonna happen. Like, know that that's gonna happen to you. And, you know, and it did. And she, the doctor at the time, this was not ultimately the doctor who I ended up seeing, you know, moving forward with, you know, my subsequent pregnancies. And she was against doing any testing of this baby. But at the time, I needed answers, right?
• 6:25
  Speaker C: What happened?
• 6:26
  Speaker A: You know, like, everybody around me was having babies and everybody was so happy. And I, you know, I'm thinking to myself, why not me? Why not me?
• 6:32
  Speaker B: Right?
• 6:33
  Speaker A: You know, it was so easy for everybody else. Why is it hard? Hard for me? Why is this happening? So I pushed for testing. We found that I had a partial molar pregnancy.
• 6:43
  Speaker C: What's that mean?
• 6:44
  Speaker A: A partial molar pregnancy is in not so many terms, like a pregnancy that's never. It's never viable with life. So it's never going to be a baby that's going to be here with us on this earth. It's not. Does it make it less heartbreaking? The problem with partial molar pregnancies Is. It's basically what happens is they have to monitor your HCG down to zero. If it doesn't go down to zero, you have to do chemotherapy, really. So I had to go to a gyne oncologist. So now I'm going through this loss. I'm going to a cancer doctor, like, petrified, you know, and, you know, doing all this monitoring, doing all this testing, and then you're not allowed to try again for six months. So six months of my life, I wasn't allowed to try again.
• 7:37
  Speaker C: Do you have more time to think?
• 7:38
  Speaker B: I feel definitely like, how was your mental state within those? You were just as a train wreck.
• 7:42
  Speaker A: And, you know, thank God for the people around me, you know, my mother, my sister, my husband. You know, thank God for the people who stepped in. And they were there for me. Like, that was like, that was a big deal, you know, like, they were there, but I was in a really bad way.
• 8:00
  Speaker C: How do you not be in a bad way?
• 8:01
  Speaker A: And, you know, it's funny because it's like they talk about postpartum depression. After nine months, you're pregnant, you have a baby, and postpartum depression can happen. But, like, nobody ever said, like, you could have a miscarriage. And then those hormones, you're still having that really big hormone drop. So I ended up definitely, looking back, I had postpartum depression, but nobody was gonna label it that. Obviously, you know, you get pregnant and you didn't get a baby out of it.
• 8:26
  Speaker C: Right. You know, and it was like, success in your eyes. And then something went wrong. So it's like, who do you blame? It's like, there's no one to blame. But I would run. I would run. My brain would have run.
• 8:35
  Speaker A: And so then I ended up having to have a procedure to have the pregnancy removed because I wasn't passing it on my own. And I ended up 24 hours later with a fever.
• 8:46
  Speaker B: Really?
• 8:47
  Speaker A: With a fever. And so then I went nuts. And I'm like, you know, what is this about? What is this from? Yada yada.
• 8:54
  Speaker C: Like, your body's not. Your body's fighting off something. You're right.
• 8:58
  Speaker A: Freaking out. I ended up having to go on antibiotics. Okay. So I ended up having endometritis. Not to be confused with endometriosis.
• 9:07
  Speaker C: Right. I know what that is.
• 9:08
  Speaker A: So endometritis is an infection in the uterus.
• 9:11
  Speaker C: Got it.
• 9:12
  Speaker A: And it was caused by the procedure.
• 9:14
  Speaker B: Is that common for.
• 9:15
  Speaker A: You know, it shouldn't be. It shouldn't be common.
• 9:18
  Speaker C: But I never heard of that before, honestly.
• 9:20
  Speaker A: Yeah. So it happened. So I went nuts after that, after, you know, researching and looking everything up. And you know, there was a lot about infertility right after you get endometrius or not actually clearing the infection after you are on antibiotics for a certain amount of time, like that could happen where you're on antibiotics, but. But you don't clear the infection.
• 9:42
  Speaker B: Right.
• 9:44
  Speaker A: So after, you know, that happened, I was on the antibiotics. I went to a new OB GYN who I ended up staying with the practice and I loved. But I ended up, you know, starting to try again. We, after six months went by, we started to try again. I got pregnant again right away. And this pregnancy resulted in a miscarriage that happened at home.
• 10:09
  Speaker C: Okay, so what was the difference?
• 10:13
  Speaker A: So I will say I knew what to expect.
• 10:15
  Speaker C: Okay.
• 10:16
  Speaker A: And I didn't. And I should have, but I didn't allow myself to feel it.
• 10:20
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 10:21
  Speaker A: I didn't allow myself to.
• 10:23
  Speaker B: Well, did you not allow yourself to get as excited as you did the first time?
• 10:26
  Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, I understand that.
• 10:28
  Speaker A: Yeah. And you know, we didn't even for this second pregnancy, we hadn't even gotten to the eight week appointment yet.
• 10:35
  Speaker B: Right.
• 10:36
  Speaker A: So I was like around six and a halfish weeks where, you know, the bleeding started, the cramping started, and you know, I told my husband again, like, you know, we ended up going to the hospital and you know, then we ended up going to my OB GYN few days later. And at this appointment, I actually had asked for a referral to go to RMA to go and do ivf.
• 10:59
  Speaker C: Okay.
• 11:00
  Speaker A: And this provider actually said, you know, if we sent every woman who's had two miscarriages to go do ivf, everybody would do ivf, basically have a third miscarriage. And let's see.
• 11:14
  Speaker B: Right.
• 11:14
  Speaker C: And I was like, it's almost like something clicked for you. And you were like, I don't want to go through this again. Yeah.
• 11:19
  Speaker A: I said, I'm not doing this again. I can't do this again. I can't do this to my body again. I can't do this to myself again. I need help at this point. So I ended up making an appointment at RMA with the provider who I ultimately saw who helped us to become pregnant.
• 11:38
  Speaker C: Now at this point, did you know anything about ivf?
• 11:40
  Speaker A: No.
• 11:41
  Speaker C: You just were like, I'm doing ivf.
• 11:42
  Speaker A: I'm doing ivf. I said, I need help. And in my mind, IVF is the way that you get help when you're going through infertility. Even if it's just testing, like they will Test everything for you.
• 11:54
  Speaker B: Right.
• 11:56
  Speaker A: So I went in and I remember I was going to the Basking Ridge office, and there's an office, like, that's much closer to my house. But I continued to go to the Basking Ridge office because that's like, their hub. So I felt most comfortable there. So I would go and, you know, it was five o' clock in the morning. It was pitch black, like. And I. As soon as I started going for this blood work.
• 12:18
  Speaker B: Because you have to go every day for every couple days. Yeah.
• 12:21
  Speaker A: And so as soon as I started going, I felt this relief immediately because it wasn't on me anymore. Like, it felt like a really big responsibility on me. I felt like I was letting my husband down. I felt like I was letting myself down. I felt like, you know, I felt so, so ashamed. Like, I felt like, I'm a woman, this is what I was made to do, and I can't do it.
• 12:47
  Speaker C: Right.
• 12:48
  Speaker B: I think a lot of women who are listening can relate to that.
• 12:51
  Speaker C: Yeah. I think the main reason why a lot of people don't like to tell their story, because they don't want others to judge, quote, unquote, the journey that they can't follow as a woman.
• 13:02
  Speaker B: Right.
• 13:02
  Speaker C: Because they should be.
• 13:03
  Speaker B: Or a lot of people have, like, the stigma. It's like, okay, we're women. Like, our bodies are supposed to do this, but, like, what if they can't?
• 13:09
  Speaker A: Right. Yeah, what if.
• 13:11
  Speaker C: And I understand that it's like a. And just to relate back, because I didn't go through ivf, but I did have a C section.
• 13:16
  Speaker B: Right.
• 13:17
  Speaker C: And I try to tell myself, and I'm good at this, just saying, you know, I have a beautiful baby. It doesn't matter how I had him, but I still feel like there's a stigma around having this. Say, what, baby? I've had someone say to me, what? You can't. Women can't push out babies anymore. Like, what do you mean?
• 13:33
  Speaker A: I tried.
• 13:33
  Speaker C: Someone said that to me. Yes. In a public setting. Yes. And I was like. Because we were in a setting with two.
• 13:38
  Speaker A: First of all.
• 13:39
  Speaker C: Yeah, but there's. My point is there's a stigma around having a C section. Like, it doesn't. It's not the easy way out, I'll tell you that.
• 13:46
  Speaker A: Absolutely.
• 13:46
  Speaker C: It's barbaric.
• 13:47
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 13:48
  Speaker C: And I rather have given birth naturally, of course. But I couldn't and I didn't. And I still had to push and actually almost give you both. So it's like, I feel your pain in the sense, like you feel like, you're ashamed that you couldn't do it the natural way. Right.
• 14:03
  Speaker B: Right.
• 14:03
  Speaker A: The way.
• 14:03
  Speaker C: Why couldn't I push my baby out in 15 minutes?
• 14:06
  Speaker A: Right.
• 14:06
  Speaker B: Right.
• 14:06
  Speaker C: Why did I have to have a cigarette?
• 14:08
  Speaker B: I think also, like, since I do have a lot of girlfriends that went through ivf, sometimes. I mean, sometimes it's not the woman. Sometimes it's the man sperm. And I remember, like, my girlfriend's talking about. They're like. Like, it's him. Like. And then it's like, do I know for you it was different, but do you feel like resentment could build up in a marriage if it was, like, your problem or his problem?
• 14:30
  Speaker A: Sure, I think either way.
• 14:31
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 14:31
  Speaker A: Yeah, I think either way. And I think that it's. It's a lot. You have to be able to communicate. You have to be able to tell each other what your feelings are in the moment.
• 14:40
  Speaker C: You know, I've been all four ivf. He was like, just go. Just go do it.
• 14:44
  Speaker A: Yeah. So he was. He got to a point where he was like, you know what? Like, if he didn't want to see me so sad anymore. And for him, you know, I think that he was scared, you know, And I think that, you know, anytime you have to get this extensive testing done, you're scared of what could be found.
• 15:04
  Speaker C: Right.
• 15:04
  Speaker A: What else could they find? You know? And that, I think, is really scary to men, too, in general. Like, especially if, like, they're not people who are, like, obsessed with going to the doctor. Obsessed with, you know, men in general. Yeah.
• 15:17
  Speaker C: Literally. They're not hate.
• 15:18
  Speaker A: So, like, for him, like, you know, it was hard for him, too, like, to have to go do the blood work and do all that stuff. Like, that is. That's a lot, you know, And I think that. I think that for men, there's a pride aspect of it, too, you know? And so when we found out everything was good with him, I will never forget this moment. He was windows down, music blasting, flying into the driveway. He's like, did you hear? I'm like, yeah, I hear it. What I'm saying, like, lucky you. Yes. Yes. And, you know, I. I was. For me, it felt kind of like, okay, like, we know that this aspect of this situation is great.
• 15:58
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 15:58
  Speaker A: That's one less thing we have to worry.
• 16:00
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 16:00
  Speaker B: Right.
• 16:00
  Speaker A: So for me, it was, you know, it was a win for sure. But I think that, again, if you're already feeling shame about the situation, it just. It could pour over into your marriage. It could pour over into your personal relationships. Like, that's a Big thing, too. Like, with women who, you know, their friends are all getting pregnant so easily and they're going through all of this stuff to get pregnant. So definitely that's a big aspect.
• 16:25
  Speaker C: I wanted to ask you, do you think if you would have had, like, I, I, I can tell by how you're speaking, you obviously did this, and I'm glad you did this the way you did for yourself because it was hard on you. Right. Do you think if you had more conversations and just gained more knowledge about your body and what was going on.
• 16:42
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 16:43
  Speaker C: Do you think you would have tried again naturally? You think you still would have done IVF because of the state of mind you were in?
• 16:49
  Speaker A: Yeah, I think, I think because of the point that I was at, at that, like, at that time in my life, mentally, I couldn't take it anymore.
• 16:57
  Speaker C: Yeah. And as you should, anymore.
• 16:59
  Speaker A: I wanted my baby, so at that point, I was willing to do anything. But I will say, like, I wish that I went into, I'm asking for
• 17:10
  Speaker C: the viewers, like, yeah, they're in this point, like, should I do it? Should I not, you know.
• 17:14
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 17:14
  Speaker A: Well, I wish that I went into trying to get pregnant in general, knowing more about my body, taking these ovulation tests, these pregnancy tests. Are you doing it right? There's all these different, Prepping your body for being pregnant.
• 17:27
  Speaker C: Like, you just don't know.
• 17:27
  Speaker A: People are taking their temperature. Like, I'm, I'm talking. There are so many different things. And the craziest part is, like, none of this stuff works.
• 17:35
  Speaker C: I know.
• 17:36
  Speaker B: Wait, the ovulation strips, I think, I
• 17:38
  Speaker C: think those are, those are definitely don't work, I don't think. Oh, I think because our cousin went, did ovulation tests, said she was ovulating, then went to the doctor. The doctor's like, you're not ovulating.
• 17:49
  Speaker B: Well, sometimes. I mean, yeah, there could be.
• 17:51
  Speaker C: I'm by the book. I know what I'm, I'm actually ovulating today.
• 17:56
  Speaker A: Yeah, well. And you want to know what, like, it depends on strips.
• 18:00
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 18:01
  Speaker A: If you're using the cheap ones, if you're using the expensive ones. And then there's, you know, like I said, you take your basal body temperature, you wake up in the morning, does it, and you're wrapping it.
• 18:09
  Speaker B: There's like the bracelets.
• 18:10
  Speaker C: Bracelets?
• 18:11
  Speaker B: Yeah, bracelets. To check your temperature.
• 18:13
  Speaker C: I'm talking there's, yeah, there's so much out there.
• 18:15
  Speaker A: And you want to know what? It's so sad because they're just preying on women. I know. They're praying.
• 18:19
  Speaker C: Yes.
• 18:21
  Speaker A: Yeah, they're. And. And I fell for it all. You know, I would do anything. And, like, when you finally get to a point where you understand what your body. It can do, what it cannot do.
• 18:32
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 18:33
  Speaker A: That I think, is the eye opening moment, because then, you know, I walked into this clinic, I started getting this blood work. Then there's other tests that you have to get.
• 18:40
  Speaker C: Take us through that process a little bit. I know a little bit about it because I. I've seen it firsthand. But I want to know from your perspective, like, all the testing you got to go through.
• 18:48
  Speaker A: So you have to do a saline sonogram. So they basically move saline, like, through your cervix. Not a doctor
• 18:57
  Speaker C: over here.
• 18:57
  Speaker A: Yeah, we're not doctors. I'm not a doctor. This is just what I make of these tests, so.
• 19:02
  Speaker B: And I think that's relatable because moms don't know shit either.
• 19:05
  Speaker C: I don't even know what IVF stands for.
• 19:06
  Speaker A: It's so.
• 19:07
  Speaker C: I can't even pronounce it.
• 19:08
  Speaker A: I will never forget. I'm sitting there in this room, and there's a group of people around me, and they're all like, yeah, like, all just looking at my uterus, and I'm like, I don't even know what I'm looking at.
• 19:17
  Speaker B: I felt that way every single pregnancy. Like, it's a room there, because I don't.
• 19:22
  Speaker C: I see absolutely nothing crazy.
• 19:24
  Speaker A: It's a room full of people all looking at the inside of your body. And it. You know, that was, I think, an aspect of it, too, that was like, you have to get comfortable with allowing
• 19:33
  Speaker C: you to like your doctor.
• 19:34
  Speaker A: You have to like your doctor. And so shout out Dr. Shastry.
• 19:40
  Speaker C: Love it.
• 19:41
  Speaker A: RMI.
• 19:41
  Speaker C: Where is she?
• 19:42
  Speaker A: RMA. So she's. She's at the Basking Ridge location. I believe she's at West Orange, maybe one other location, but she is.
• 19:49
  Speaker C: You need a good experience.
• 19:50
  Speaker A: I love her.
• 19:50
  Speaker C: A good referral.
• 19:51
  Speaker A: She's amazing. But all the doctors, they're amazing. They're all so very smart. They're all, you know, wonderful. Choose my girl.
• 19:59
  Speaker C: Love that.
• 19:59
  Speaker A: You need that. Yeah. So I went. I did the saline sonogram. It's where they move saline through your uterus to kind of just see the shape of your uterus. And then after that, you do. Okay. It's an HSG hysterosalpingogram.
• 20:15
  Speaker C: I would have never done that.
• 20:17
  Speaker A: And so for that, they move dye through your fallopian tubes and they sit with an X ray machine over you to see and make sure that there's nothing clogged.
• 20:26
  Speaker C: You know your shit. I'll tell you that.
• 20:28
  Speaker B: Even if I went through something like this, I still.
• 20:30
  Speaker C: That thing that's long, you know. Yeah. Well.
• 20:33
  Speaker A: And so my right fallopian tube was clogged.
• 20:35
  Speaker C: Okay.
• 20:36
  Speaker A: And they ended up believing that it was due to when I had that infection from the procedure to remove the pregnancy after.
• 20:45
  Speaker B: You know, if you never did that, you would have never got that answer.
• 20:49
  Speaker C: Right. Exactly.
• 20:50
  Speaker A: So. And I guess, fun fact, most women do ovulate from their right side most
• 20:54
  Speaker C: often because I always feel it on my right ovary. My doctor did say that you feel
• 20:58
  Speaker B: it on your right ovary.
• 20:59
  Speaker C: When I ovulate, I feel my follicle. Yeah. I swear I told him by the book.
• 21:03
  Speaker B: You are. You absolutely are.
• 21:04
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 21:05
  Speaker C: Feel on my right side.
• 21:05
  Speaker A: If you aren't, you know, ovulating on your left side and your right side
• 21:09
  Speaker C: is clogged, do you think that you would have not miscarried your second time if you knew that answer after your first miscarry?
• 21:18
  Speaker B: Well, no, because it.
• 21:18
  Speaker C: Just because it was clogged. If you knew that the fallopian tube was clogged.
• 21:21
  Speaker B: Yeah, but she didn't do anything about it.
• 21:23
  Speaker C: No, I'm saying if you knew that your fallopian tube was clogged after your infection.
• 21:27
  Speaker B: Oh. Like if they went in.
• 21:28
  Speaker C: If they went in and flushed it out, do you think it would have helped with your second.
• 21:32
  Speaker A: Maybe you have an answer. But also, like, if they Would they. I've. I've read before sometimes that when they do the hsg, it does kind of move whatever the blockage is through. But if it's scar tissue and stuff, like, I don't know how they're really going to get that out. So I don't know. It's possible, but I, you know, I remember that procedure being particularly painful for me.
• 21:55
  Speaker C: I can imagine.
• 21:56
  Speaker A: I. I think my toenails were sweating. I'm not.
• 21:59
  Speaker C: Everything was sweating laying there.
• 22:02
  Speaker A: Oh, my gosh. I was cursing. And then I, after. I, like, felt so guilty that I was cursing like that, this doctor. My body came off the table again.
• 22:10
  Speaker C: No, I can't.
• 22:10
  Speaker A: I was in so much pain. And, you know, she sat down, she looked at me, and right after the test, she said, you need to do ivf.
• 22:18
  Speaker C: She told you that right there. That's something I would need to hear.
• 22:22
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 22:22
  Speaker C: Tell me what I need to do. I can't make a decision on my own.
• 22:25
  Speaker A: Yeah. And, you know, I went home and I. I'm in a Bible study now, but at the time, I was just kind of reading through the Bible by myself. And I was in the shower, and I thought to myself, because, you know. You know, some people say, shouldn't do ivf. And I was. I stood in the shower, and I closed my eyes and I said, am I doing the right thing?
• 22:43
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 22:43
  Speaker A: You know, and I asked God, am I doing the right thing? Is this right? And I. Every night, you know, I was reading through, and I open. I was in psalms, and I opened. And first. Children are a gift from God is the first line. Yeah. He answered me right away. So I knew, you know, I stuff
• 22:59
  Speaker C: like that, too, because I'm the same exact way.
• 23:01
  Speaker A: Yeah. And he did. And so I felt at that point, said, this is gonna work, you know, this is gonna work for us. So after that, I had what's called an egg retrieval. And so with that, this is like the famous shots.
• 23:16
  Speaker C: This is how many eggs you.
• 23:17
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 23:18
  Speaker C: Came out of the egg retrieval.
• 23:19
  Speaker A: Yes. So this is the famous. You know, when you see on social media people doing the shots in their belly, that's what this is. So start getting on medication. And, you know, I was so excited about the whole process. Like, I was like, I don't care. I don't care how many times I have to stab myself in the stomach. You're ready, you know, and so my sister did a lot of my shots for me. God bless her. Yes. And thank you.
• 23:40
  Speaker B: Did your husband do any of them?
• 23:41
  Speaker A: He did them one time, and they hurt so bad. You're never doing it again? I'm doing it myself the next time.
• 23:47
  Speaker C: Oh, my gosh. They just don't know.
• 23:49
  Speaker A: It hurt so bad when he did it. I think he was nervous, maybe. I don't know.
• 23:52
  Speaker C: Yeah. I mean, imagine pricking your wife. It's a weird concept.
• 23:55
  Speaker A: Yes. So that's when I was going every other day. And then daily for. You would go in the morning for an ultrasound. They would ultrasound. They would see how many follicles you had growing on each side. And then it goes for about two weeks. For most people, I think it's like.
• 24:11
  Speaker C: It kind of depends on two weeks of shots.
• 24:13
  Speaker A: Yeah. And then you do what's called a trigger shot. You have to do it at the exact time that they tell you to do it. And then the next day, you go in. In the morning, and you go under anesthetic anesthesia and they go and they take out all, you know, your little follicles. And that morning, usually, like, your husband will Give, like, a fresh sample or if there's, like, a frozen sample. You know, sometimes things don't work out, you know, but they always make sure that they have the sample. And right then and there, they take your eggs and they inseminate them. And so.
• 24:44
  Speaker C: So interesting.
• 24:45
  Speaker A: Yeah. So when I woke up.
• 24:46
  Speaker B: So crazy.
• 24:47
  Speaker A: It's amazing. It's amazing. So I woke up and they said, retrieve 24 eggs.
• 24:54
  Speaker C: That's a lot.
• 24:55
  Speaker A: It's a lot of egg.
• 24:56
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 24:56
  Speaker A: So I was. I was like, oh, my gosh. Like, I. You know, I guess I didn't realize, like, that I was capable, you know? Like, I don't know. It was. I was shocked.
• 25:05
  Speaker B: You were defeated for.
• 25:05
  Speaker A: So, yeah, 24.
• 25:07
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 25:08
  Speaker C: That's a lot of eggs.
• 25:09
  Speaker A: Fertile. You know, from what I know. I feel like that's a lot of eggs. Yeah. I feel like. I was like, all right, we did good. Yeah.
• 25:14
  Speaker C: So we did good.
• 25:16
  Speaker A: We did good. And then. So then they. There's a process over the next few days where they call you. They tell you how many of your eggs matured, and then moving forward, how many, like, basically make it to the blastocyst stage. And I think that that's, like, day five or six usually. So we ended up all in all with seven.
• 25:39
  Speaker C: That's good, too.
• 25:40
  Speaker A: Yes. And so we had a mix of girl and boys. And what my doctor had told me was she wanted at least two for each child I wanted to have.
• 25:51
  Speaker C: Oh, that makes sense. That makes sense. So if you want one, you should have two, right?
• 25:56
  Speaker A: Yeah. So if you want two, you should have four.
• 25:57
  Speaker C: Right. Great.
• 25:59
  Speaker A: So we started discussing, you know, okay, we're gonna.
• 26:04
  Speaker B: Are you gonna pick the sex?
• 26:05
  Speaker C: I know.
• 26:06
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 26:06
  Speaker C: That's so exciting.
• 26:07
  Speaker A: So we ended up not picking the sex.
• 26:08
  Speaker C: Oh. So it just was by surprise.
• 26:10
  Speaker A: Yeah. So we said to them we wanted, like, a. Like a little bit of, like, a normal. Say, however normal you can make this process. But we wanted a little bit of normalcy. So we ended up telling them, best quality. You guys choose and don't tell us.
• 26:26
  Speaker C: So fun.
• 26:27
  Speaker B: I love the best quality thing because. No, because they do. They rank them.
• 26:31
  Speaker A: I know every other.
• 26:32
  Speaker B: So, like, my girlfriends are on their second third kids now, and they're like, all right, we'll get the third one. Like, the third best. I'm like, oh, that one's going to be so shitty.
• 26:42
  Speaker A: And it's hilarious because it's like.
• 26:44
  Speaker B: It's like, they're all good, but it's like.
• 26:45
  Speaker A: And who talks like this? Right? Like, people who just go and get Pregnant. Normally you're not like, okay, the best quality, like, it just. You better be a good one.
• 26:54
  Speaker C: Yes.
• 26:55
  Speaker A: Like, it's like you're just. You're just getting pregnant and that's it.
• 26:57
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 26:58
  Speaker A: But for us, it's like all of these people who have to go through ivf, it's just this, like, very specialized situation.
• 27:04
  Speaker C: I mean, think about it. You're doing shots in your kitchen. I assume your sister's coming over. You're getting blood work, like, every other day, so you're leaving work at the time, and you had to be put under anesthesia.
• 27:14
  Speaker B: So, I mean, it's a lot.
• 27:15
  Speaker C: You can wake up and be disappointed after all that.
• 27:18
  Speaker B: Also. Yeah. All of that doesn't lead to a baby. Correct. Maybe. Or maybe not.
• 27:22
  Speaker C: Right?
• 27:23
  Speaker A: Maybe the.
• 27:24
  Speaker B: I want to. I want to hear about your. The waiting period. The two week.
• 27:27
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
• 27:27
  Speaker B: Wait.
• 27:28
  Speaker A: Okay, so we. We went in for.
• 27:30
  Speaker C: So they. The transfer, right.
• 27:32
  Speaker A: And they come in and they wheel in. It's like a little. It's a cart with a dish. Yeah. Your baby is in there.
• 27:40
  Speaker C: Like, we used in, like, chemistry class.
• 27:42
  Speaker A: Like, those dishes, like everybod. Your baby is in there, and everybody else's babies are in there. It's crazy. And so on this screen, under a microscope, there's our baby. Like, that's what you sent us. Yes.
• 27:55
  Speaker C: That's like they're looking through a thing. Yes.
• 27:57
  Speaker A: And I can see her. And at the time, I didn't know it was her. So I see this baby on the screen and they take like little drops of water, I guess, and they're like. They're like, look, we're washing the baby.
• 28:06
  Speaker C: I'm freaking out.
• 28:08
  Speaker A: My husband and I are looking at each other like, what is happening? What is going on right now?
• 28:13
  Speaker B: Science is unbelievable.
• 28:14
  Speaker C: Science is unbelievable.
• 28:15
  Speaker A: Crazy. And like, it's like. Isn't it amazing, though? Like, you think about, like, you take a sit back and you're like, okay, like, God created us from that.
• 28:24
  Speaker B: I don't get it.
• 28:25
  Speaker A: Clump of cells.
• 28:26
  Speaker C: Like, I don't even understand.
• 28:27
  Speaker A: Like, we were like. We were a clump of cells before. Like, God was like, here you go.
• 28:31
  Speaker C: There you are.
• 28:32
  Speaker A: It's crazy.
• 28:33
  Speaker B: And the fact that they could do it now, not inside your body.
• 28:35
  Speaker C: Yes. Right.
• 28:36
  Speaker B: You could take them out of the body, make them.
• 28:38
  Speaker C: Right. That's exactly.
• 28:39
  Speaker B: Put it in.
• 28:40
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 28:40
  Speaker A: And they're like, look how cute. And we're like. We're like, okay. Yeah, cute, you know, and then so they. They did it. And it was on ultrasound, and you
• 28:51
  Speaker C: were Awake for all this. Yeah.
• 28:52
  Speaker A: And you didn't feel anything? And I was able to see babies go in and where. Baby was kind of awesome.
• 28:59
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 28:59
  Speaker A: It was so, so cool. You know, I always say, like, I got to meet her.
• 29:03
  Speaker C: Yeah. Before. Yeah.
• 29:04
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 29:05
  Speaker C: That's awesome.
• 29:06
  Speaker A: So I remember after my husband being like, don't pee too hard.
• 29:10
  Speaker C: Push her out, because you have to
• 29:13
  Speaker A: have a full bladder for the procedure. You have to have a full bladder so they can sit.
• 29:17
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 29:18
  Speaker A: And that's crazy. They were like. They were like, no, no, like that. You can't do that. It's okay. And I'm like.
• 29:23
  Speaker C: And even after all that, that's like.
• 29:25
  Speaker B: Guys are so stupid. It's like. It's like when you're actually pregnant and. And he's like, oh, my God, do you think I'm touching his head? I'm like, no, your cock is not that big.
• 29:33
  Speaker A: Yeah. Like, it's like, oh, my gosh.
• 29:36
  Speaker C: But I feel like even after all that.
• 29:38
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 29:39
  Speaker C: It still could not work.
• 29:40
  Speaker A: It still could not work.
• 29:41
  Speaker C: Which is such a crazy concept to think about.
• 29:44
  Speaker B: Well, I mean, all the right things have to happen. So you have. So when. When that was actually happening, you had to have been ovulating, right. Or no.
• 29:51
  Speaker C: So it's like a day after your period or something.
• 29:53
  Speaker B: Or when. Tell the viewers what.
• 29:55
  Speaker A: So you start on medication.
• 29:58
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 29:58
  Speaker A: They start you on medication. They start you on, I believe it's estrogen. And then also progesterone.
• 30:02
  Speaker C: Okay.
• 30:03
  Speaker A: Progesterone injection.
• 30:04
  Speaker C: Not only that you're putting in your body.
• 30:06
  Speaker A: Yep. And the progesterone injections are no joke. The needles are this big. They're intramuscular, so they go in your butt. And this is a lot. It's a lot. Yeah. And you do that at the same time every day. I did it for 56 days.
• 30:20
  Speaker B: Wow. Because that's like preparing your body to.
• 30:23
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 30:23
  Speaker C: Be.
• 30:24
  Speaker A: To be pregnant.
• 30:25
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 30:26
  Speaker A: And so I. I had done it at this point, I believe it was for five days. Went in, had the transfer, and then you still have to continue doing your shots. Now think about the people who. The transfer doesn't stick, and they're sitting there every day still doing these shots like it's pain and it's for nothing.
• 30:44
  Speaker C: And wait, so now that I'm remembering, you can't do the same spots.
• 30:48
  Speaker A: So you. You go back and forth every day each side.
• 30:51
  Speaker C: And then it gets sore.
• 30:53
  Speaker A: Swollen sore.
• 30:55
  Speaker C: Just like sticking a won't be.
• 30:56
  Speaker A: Yeah. So. And there's this auto injector that they make that it's not, like, FDA approved, but, you know, this pharmaceutical company makes this auto injector where you can load the, you know, the injection in and you can just press the button and it does it itself. Because, you know, think about it. You're sitting there, you're looking at this needle that's this big, and you have to jab yourself.
• 31:19
  Speaker B: So this is at home. You're doing this.
• 31:21
  Speaker A: So I was able to, like, I could see the pen, but I didn't have to look at the needle. And I was able to press the button.
• 31:28
  Speaker C: And that worked. What's it called?
• 31:29
  Speaker A: I forget the name of it. I'll. I'll look it up. Yeah. But it was, like. It was amazing. So it made everything a lot easier for me in that aspect. But my husband did make a comment. I'll never forget it. Thank you, Ryan. And he said, well, Nicole, be very careful that you don't hit a bone.
• 31:45
  Speaker C: Hit a ball, hit a bone.
• 31:47
  Speaker A: I never forgot it. I never forgot it.
• 31:50
  Speaker C: Don't even.
• 31:51
  Speaker A: I never forgot it. So every day at 7:50, I used to call my sister, and I knew she was at work, so I was like, I can't lollygag. You know, I got it. She's gonna count down from five, and then when she gets to one, I'm gonna press it, and then we're gonna hang up. Like, I cannot keep her on the.
• 32:10
  Speaker C: God for sisters.
• 32:11
  Speaker A: Oh, sisters. Thank God for sisters. And I used to. She was like, everybody in the office knows not to bother me for those 10 minutes.
• 32:19
  Speaker C: How sweet.
• 32:20
  Speaker A: You know, And I used to. Sometimes I would cry, and I'd be like, brian, I can't do it.
• 32:22
  Speaker C: That's it.
• 32:23
  Speaker A: Like, I'm done. I'm not doing it. She.
• 32:25
  Speaker C: And you literally have to.
• 32:26
  Speaker A: You have to. You have to. And after. It's keeping your baby alive at that point. Like, you have to. You don't have a choice. You said, nicole, you're doing. Stop. You know, she's like, do it. You know, And I would do it every time. There was one particular time, blood shot out after that.
• 32:42
  Speaker C: This is crazy. You know that, right?
• 32:44
  Speaker B: And, like, so many people go through it and don't. I mean, I'm. I'm really happy that you're telling this, like, full.
• 32:49
  Speaker C: Me too. Because a lot of people not only won't tell the story or if they do, they don't tell it in detail.
• 32:54
  Speaker A: Detail.
• 32:54
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 32:54
  Speaker B: People.
• 32:55
  Speaker C: If I was going through this, I need to hear bloodshot out of your ass.
• 33:00
  Speaker A: But you have to also hear that the medication does stay in, right? Yeah, it's okay. Like, I called my, my nurse after I said, does the medication come out? I have to do it again. She's like, no, no, like, you're good, right? You're good. And you know, I will say, like, the medical attention that you receive when you're going through ivf, second to none.
• 33:16
  Speaker C: That's good.
• 33:17
  Speaker A: They are on you, they're calling you. The times, like, it is so amazing. And I said to my husband, you know, after the fact, I said, don't get comfortable because it's not like this, you know, out in the world.
• 33:29
  Speaker C: Right. No, seriously, though, but that's lucky, you
• 33:32
  Speaker A: know, I'm back to the two week wait. So it's I believe, nine days, nine or ten days. And then you go in.
• 33:38
  Speaker C: One day's enough.
• 33:39
  Speaker A: I know. And you get blood.
• 33:40
  Speaker B: Yeah. That must be a long. So my question for you is, while you were going through this, did you tell people that you were going through it?
• 33:48
  Speaker A: No.
• 33:49
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 33:49
  Speaker C: It was just your family. Why did you refuse?
• 33:52
  Speaker A: Okay, so we're Italian. The malochio.
• 33:57
  Speaker C: You want bad juju?
• 33:58
  Speaker A: Yeah, I, I didn't want, I didn't want people's thoughts to affect.
• 34:07
  Speaker C: It wasn't. So you didn't want to hear people's thoughts back to you, or you didn't want people to judge you, or you didn't want the bad jujo?
• 34:12
  Speaker A: All of it. All of it.
• 34:14
  Speaker C: All of it.
• 34:15
  Speaker A: I didn't want any of it. And I didn't want, you know, I didn't want people look at me like I'm a freaking science, science experiment. Like, I don't want people to look at me, you know, and judge me in a way.
• 34:25
  Speaker C: Again, label you as.
• 34:27
  Speaker A: Yes. Yeah. This woman is infertile.
• 34:29
  Speaker C: Gosh.
• 34:29
  Speaker B: Also, you were already let down twice with two miscarriages.
• 34:32
  Speaker C: No one knows your story.
• 34:33
  Speaker A: No one knows.
• 34:34
  Speaker B: And it's like, and it's like how like my girlfriends, when they were going through that nine day period, they would choose who were they were going to tell because then if it doesn't stick, it's like, like, okay, I have to tell these people that I just did all this.
• 34:46
  Speaker A: And so many people knew the first time I was pregnant. And like, I am so thankful for all the people who were there for us. But like the amount of flower deliveries that I got. Yeah, like for a week. And I was like, like, I remember, like, literally, like, I'm gonna smash these flowers on the ground. Like, I don't want any more flowers, you know? But it was all you know, with good intentions. Everybody was doing.
• 35:08
  Speaker B: But that's how you're with. I'm sure, like, any, like, pregnancy announcement you saw on Instagram or any, like, all trigger. Like that is just like a trigger.
• 35:17
  Speaker A: Yes. Like, the morning I was going in for my procedure, I saw, you know, somebody who I knew announced her pregnancy. And, you know, I was like, oh, my gosh.
• 35:24
  Speaker C: Like, you also don't know what people are announcing. You don't know what they went through prior either. So maybe they were going through.
• 35:30
  Speaker B: No, but, like, we're all human. Like, you have this feeling.
• 35:32
  Speaker C: You're like, yeah, we're all human. So. Exactly. Can't help it. But, like, you wish you can ask somebody. Like, that's why it's so good to talk to people. So, you know, it's late.
• 35:39
  Speaker A: Yes. And, you know, the day that I. So I decided to take a test on my own at home.
• 35:44
  Speaker B: You did? Oh, so.
• 35:45
  Speaker C: Yeah. Oh, wait, so before you went in
• 35:47
  Speaker B: to get blood work, but they tell you not to do that.
• 35:49
  Speaker C: Why?
• 35:50
  Speaker B: Because, well, she's going to an actual clinic that is supposed to tell her. I have fights with my girlfriends about that.
• 35:57
  Speaker C: I probably would do that too.
• 35:58
  Speaker A: So. Okay, so. But they also tell you your HCG number and so you can get a positive. The number might not be high enough, so it might not be a viable pregnancy, but I went to my friend Nicole's baby shower and I was on my way home.
• 36:14
  Speaker C: I'm just going about your life, like, doing all those things. Like, the craziest thing, going to a
• 36:18
  Speaker A: baby shower while infertile is like, that should be. That should be. Where am I? Like, they're in, like, the Twilight Zone, right? There was like another.
• 36:25
  Speaker C: What's going on?
• 36:26
  Speaker A: Yeah. There was like 10 pregnant women around me all taking a picture. I'm sitting there like, yeah, that's terrible.
• 36:31
  Speaker C: It's terrible.
• 36:31
  Speaker A: Like, it's crazy. That's. I'll go back to it. But, like, that's another thing that I like. I wish that people. I do wish a little bit that people knew what I was going through, because I did take a step back from everybody.
• 36:46
  Speaker C: So I was like, what's wrong with Nicole?
• 36:47
  Speaker A: Meanwhile, always, what's wrong with Nicole? Nicole doesn't like us anymore. What's Nicole's problem?
• 36:52
  Speaker B: But you needed to do it for your mental.
• 36:54
  Speaker A: So depressed. Nicole was so depressed. Like, Nicole couldn't be a friend, couldn't be a wife, couldn't be a sister, couldn't be a daughter. Nicole couldn't be anything.
• 37:03
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 37:04
  Speaker A: Nicole was in the trenches.
• 37:06
  Speaker C: Yeah. But looking back, you realize how bad it was.
• 37:09
  Speaker A: Yeah, it was really bad. You know, it was bad. And, like, sometimes I don't even like to think about it.
• 37:14
  Speaker C: I know, because I get it. I get it. Oh, I get it.
• 37:17
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 37:17
  Speaker A: You know, like the weird thought. Yeah. It hurts to think about. But I did take the test. I went to cvs, I stopped, I picked up the test. My husband wasn't home. I wasn't home, did it by myself.
• 37:26
  Speaker C: You're so funny.
• 37:27
  Speaker A: I said, I have to do it alone. Yeah. And I did it. I took, like, four different types of tests. They all said pregnant. I said, no way. No way. Wait. I said, I guess I'm gonna call my husband. I guess I'm gonna call him. I looked at him, I said, I'm pregnant. He's like, excuse me. What, are you taking tests? Yeah. Like, what are you doing? I was like, I'm pregnant. He was like, oh, my gosh. You know, so we were so excited. You know, a couple days later, I went. And you go. You get your blood tests. They call you. They tell you congratulations. If it's, you know, a hopeful number,
• 38:02
  Speaker C: it's like a real thing.
• 38:03
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 38:03
  Speaker C: They do call you and say.
• 38:04
  Speaker A: They call you and they tell you congratulations. And then they want to see your number 60% or more every 48 hours, I believe it is. So they want to see that number doubling. So you got the positive, but they're still not there yet. Not over yet.
• 38:21
  Speaker C: It's, like, crazy.
• 38:22
  Speaker A: It's not over. So then you go back. You go back again, and then it's really nice, actually, because you start doing ultrasounds at four weeks.
• 38:30
  Speaker B: Like, all this process is. You're still, like, very.
• 38:33
  Speaker C: You're not. You don't have a baby. You don't have.
• 38:35
  Speaker B: Well, no, but you are. But, like, it's like, you're not, like, 12 weeks. You're not sick.
• 38:40
  Speaker C: Most women don't know they're pregnant.
• 38:41
  Speaker B: Right? Exactly. Like, you haven't even had the missed period. Right. You were doing it.
• 38:46
  Speaker A: And then you go and you see. You know, you want to make sure that there's. It basically looks like an egg yolk. They check that. Then they. And then at eight weeks, you graduate, and that's when you go to your Obey. I was like, do I have.
• 38:58
  Speaker B: Like, yeah, you didn't want to leave.
• 39:00
  Speaker C: So you have to leave them.
• 39:01
  Speaker A: You leave them. Yeah.
• 39:02
  Speaker B: And they will not see you anymore.
• 39:03
  Speaker A: No, it's actually against the law.
• 39:05
  Speaker B: It's so. It's actually. It is my girlfriend's talking about it because they're very attached to, like, you said that, doctor.
• 39:11
  Speaker A: Right.
• 39:11
  Speaker B: But, like, then they're just like, bye, yes, you gotta go. Because they move on. I mean, it's a. It's right.
• 39:16
  Speaker A: I'm like, I miss you. I love you. I send them pictures of my daughter, like, on the party. I'm like, hey, here she is. Here she is. Your masterpiece. Like, I love you guys, but people do go and they, you know, they'll bring their kids to visit so that, you know, the doctors can meet, which is really cool.
• 39:32
  Speaker C: That's cool.
• 39:33
  Speaker A: Yeah. So. But my nurse and I were super, super close. And, you know, she. I, like, adored her. And she was always, like, such a. Like a guiding light for me. Any questions I had, she. I always knew, and I could count on her. And, like, this made a really big difference for me because in the world, right? Like, if you go on your portal, your. My chart, whatever, and you write to your provider 24, 48 hours, they're gonna get back to you eventually, but it's not usually super quick. I would call her, two minutes later, she's calling me back. She's calling me back, you know, so, like, that was the way that I was so comforted by this practice, by these people.
• 40:11
  Speaker B: I bet it made a world of a difference. Yeah, you needed that. You needed the reassurance. I did.
• 40:15
  Speaker A: I needed that. Yeah. So I obviously became pregnant with Savannah, and I went to my obgyn, and it was amazing.
• 40:27
  Speaker B: So for that. For that pregnancy.
• 40:29
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 40:29
  Speaker B: Were you, like, on edge? Were you nervous? Or after that, were you, like. You were. So.
• 40:35
  Speaker C: So. So you. This works now you graduate, and you're going to your regular. And now you're just going through the process of being pregnant.
• 40:43
  Speaker A: High risk, or in the end, okay, so you go. Okay, so in regular pregnancies, you know, when everything is status quo, you go. And at 36 weeks, I had to go to perinatal weekly, along with my regular OB gyn.
• 41:00
  Speaker C: Because of your situation.
• 41:01
  Speaker A: Yes. And because. So I was on blood thinners. I was on a thyroid medication while you were pregnant. And so, like, I don't have blood thinners. I mean, baby aspirin. But I was on a thyroid medication, which I didn't have a thyroid issue, but everything is so specialized in IVF that they actually say, okay, so your thyroid is at this number, but it's optimal for pregnancy at this number, so we're gonna make it so you're at this number. So through my pregnancy, I was on those medications, and so they were monitoring me closely because I had two miscarriages previously. And that was another thing that was really great, I think for me, about the baby. Aspirin and thyroid medications, they're doing everything they can to make this successful. So I think that that really helped my mental health in the situation as well. And then at 36 weeks was when I started going back. They also do, at 22 weeks, they check baby's heart again. So they go in back at maternal fetal medicine, perinatal. They go in and they do another really big scan of the baby's heart. So you have like your 20 week appointment, which, you know, they check for arms, legs, toes, heart, all of it. But then they go back in and they're checking and they want to see everything is exactly where it needs to be. And so you get, you get extra reassurance.
• 42:19
  Speaker C: Was there any sign of relief? When. Was there a sign of relief when she actually came out?
• 42:24
  Speaker A: Not even.
• 42:26
  Speaker C: Is that crazy? Never a sign of relief.
• 42:28
  Speaker A: You know, it's funny, like, my sister was there too. We love. When I think of her, I'm like, I love her. She was there when I gave birth and my, my daughter was born and St. Barnabas. St. Barnabas. Shout out.
• 42:45
  Speaker C: Oh, you were St. Barnabas too?
• 42:47
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 42:48
  Speaker C: I like, forget you were saying Barnabas because you're not up north, but also
• 42:51
  Speaker A: shout out to their, all three of us, their unit, that you can go there when you're pregnant and they can check.
• 42:57
  Speaker C: Yes.
• 42:57
  Speaker A: Seven times I went seven. They knew me.
• 42:59
  Speaker C: Hey, Nicole, she's back.
• 43:01
  Speaker A: What up, girl?
• 43:02
  Speaker B: Yeah, their NICU is amazing. Everything, Everything.
• 43:05
  Speaker A: I love them. They're.
• 43:06
  Speaker C: They teams are amazing there.
• 43:07
  Speaker A: Class acts, all of them. They're amazing. So my sister was, you know, there with me here, my husband's here and I gave birth and wait, they allowed
• 43:18
  Speaker C: two people in the room with you?
• 43:19
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 43:20
  Speaker C: That's great. They don't usually.
• 43:22
  Speaker B: Yeah, they, they do. Which is not during company. They didn't.
• 43:25
  Speaker A: And they don't allow them overnight. So only. That was it. Yeah, only one can stay overnight. But you know, my daughter, she was crying, but like it wasn't enough for me. So I'm asking every person in the room, I'm looking around, is she okay?
• 43:39
  Speaker B: Oh, wait, did they. Did you have to say your sister was a doula or.
• 43:41
  Speaker C: No, no, I think there's only one person allowed.
• 43:44
  Speaker B: No.
• 43:45
  Speaker A: People probably thought we were a couple at one point and I had so,
• 43:48
  Speaker C: like a couple that look alike.
• 43:50
  Speaker A: Yeah, Like, I checked in with her. You know, like my husband was like, so he really, like, was, like, anxious, you know, So I checked in with my sister, you know, and gave birth naturally. Yeah. Yeah. So I, you know, I gave her. And the. My doctor was so, so wonderful. Dr. Robin at Summit Health Again, another shout out plug. Dr. Robin. She, like, we were chatting in between.
• 44:13
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 44:14
  Speaker C: Do you have an easy birth?
• 44:15
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 44:16
  Speaker C: Good.
• 44:16
  Speaker A: Yeah. I pushed for two hours. Yeah.
• 44:18
  Speaker B: God gave you that because you went through.
• 44:20
  Speaker A: Yes, well, one of my husband's friends was like, you know, God wasn't gonna.
• 44:25
  Speaker C: Another one? Yeah.
• 44:26
  Speaker A: Like, you know, so everything went really well. It was wonderful. My birth experience was wonderful. I feel like everybody talks about these really awful, scary birth experiences.
• 44:35
  Speaker C: Really awful, scary birth experience.
• 44:36
  Speaker A: Yeah. And, you know, a lot of people have really scary experiences, and none of
• 44:41
  Speaker C: them are the same. They're all different. They're all different. No one has the same story.
• 44:43
  Speaker A: Yeah. And, like, you have three kids, so, you know, all your births are always different, you know, so, you know, I had my daughter, and it was amazing, and it went well, and I, like, I remember looking at the doctor and being like, you know, did you see the episode of Keeping up with the Kardashians when Courtney pulled her baby out and she said, do you want to do that today? I said, no.
• 45:00
  Speaker C: Oh, I thought you were gonna say yes. I was just freaked out.
• 45:03
  Speaker B: I did that with my second, and
• 45:04
  Speaker C: I forgot you did that, too.
• 45:07
  Speaker A: No, no, I hated it.
• 45:09
  Speaker C: Wait, I also have to ask.
• 45:10
  Speaker A: I hate.
• 45:11
  Speaker C: Did you clean. Was Savannah cleaned off before put on you or. No, no, she was.
• 45:15
  Speaker A: Put right on me with all of stuff.
• 45:16
  Speaker C: All of it. You too?
• 45:18
  Speaker B: Yeah. Well, I asked after. After the second. I said, just clean them.
• 45:23
  Speaker A: I don't want them. I remember kissing her, and I.
• 45:25
  Speaker C: What is that?
• 45:26
  Speaker A: You just get his. Okay.
• 45:29
  Speaker B: I guess, like, the way the baby looks is insane.
• 45:33
  Speaker C: No, Like, I would. Absolutely. I had a C section, but if I had a natural birth. Clean him up and then give us.
• 45:39
  Speaker A: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
• 45:40
  Speaker B: I. I mean, I. I did say that, and I would say that again, but, like, yeah, I mean, it's your baby, so.
• 45:44
  Speaker A: It's your baby. It was in you. Like, it's your gut.
• 45:49
  Speaker C: I don't think I can. I don't think I get.
• 45:51
  Speaker A: They give you golden hour at St. Barnabas, which is very important.
• 45:55
  Speaker B: I love golden hour.
• 45:56
  Speaker A: Love golden hour. And. And I had sushi and golden hour. My nurse literally better than sushi and golden hour. My nurse literally went and took my sushi out of the fridge, brought it in for me. Like, she. I was like, this is like, you Know what?
• 46:08
  Speaker B: You know the Tiktoks now it's coming up on my feed now it's like, I'm so hungry, I'm craving a 2am Hospital visit. Pushing out my baby.
• 46:15
  Speaker C: Well, you had, like, a vacation when you had your third.
• 46:18
  Speaker B: Yes. When you get to second or third kid, it is a vacation. I mean, I. My husband and I were like, this is great.
• 46:27
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 46:29
  Speaker B: We stay, like, another night.
• 46:31
  Speaker C: I love it.
• 46:33
  Speaker B: But.
• 46:33
  Speaker C: What a beautiful story. Thank you for sharing that.
• 46:36
  Speaker A: Gosh, of course. Thank you.
• 46:37
  Speaker C: People are going to resonate so much with you. Yeah. And, like, I promise you.
• 46:41
  Speaker B: So if someone is going through IVF right now or thinking about going through it, what would be, like, your advice or what would be, like, one thing to tell them?
• 46:49
  Speaker A: So this is what sat with me through my whole experience, that I read it in the beginning and I still think of it to this day. The biggest thing for me is you're gonna have your baby. You're gonna have your baby. You have to be okay with the fact that it might not be how you initially thought. Somehow, some way, you're gonna have your baby. You know, whether it's that you eventually have to adopt like your mom did, you know, but you're gonna have your baby.
• 47:16
  Speaker C: That's a good. SO mentality.
• 47:18
  Speaker A: Once you relinquish control, you will feel more in control. That makes.
• 47:23
  Speaker C: Once you accept the fact that this is how it's going.
• 47:26
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 47:27
  Speaker C: That's the hardest part. I feel like accepting the fact that this is the way it is and then just embrace.
• 47:32
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 47:33
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 47:33
  Speaker C: I mean, we didn't touch on this at all because I feel like the most. The craziest thing about all this. I mean, what you go through, what everybody around you goes through internally, externally, but the fucking cost. Okay, like, forget it. What do people do?
• 47:48
  Speaker B: Well, some things are covered, so some
• 47:50
  Speaker A: things, we were very blessed.
• 47:52
  Speaker C: What if you had another round? You did one round, right?
• 47:54
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 47:54
  Speaker C: That was one round you just talked about.
• 47:56
  Speaker A: Yeah. People do more than one. Yes. So we were very blessed. The insurance that I was working at the time and the insurance that we had was covered by. We had fertility insurance. It's called progeny. It's amazing.
• 48:09
  Speaker C: Never heard.
• 48:10
  Speaker A: So progeny is really cool because it's like an almost like an add on to your insurance. All you pay is your deductible for the year. So, like, if you have, you know, pretty decent insurance and your deductible is a couple thousand dollars, that's all you're paying.
• 48:22
  Speaker B: That's amazing.
• 48:23
  Speaker C: Thank goodness for that.
• 48:25
  Speaker A: A lot of insurance companies don't allow you, like, to do what you want to do. So, like, some insurance companies will say, no, you have to do three rounds of iui, all three rounds have to fill, fail, and only then can I. Which is so, so messed up and really prolongs your process. So crazy. But with progeny, the way that they work is that whatever the doctor says goes.
• 48:48
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 48:48
  Speaker A: So I didn't have that experience. Yeah. So, like, I really felt like this all was meant for me.
• 48:54
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 48:54
  Speaker A: I was meant to go through this process and I was meant to have my children in this way because it. The way that it worked out for me is it was meant to happen. I remember after my first miscarriage thinking to myself, I want to just do ivf.
• 49:09
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 49:10
  Speaker A: I need to do ivf.
• 49:10
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 49:11
  Speaker A: Everybody was like, stop, stop. You only, you know, only had one miscarriage. Stop. And I said, I want to do ivf. I feel like I need to do ivf. And something was telling you to do that. Something was telling me. Yeah. And, you know, so it ended up working out really well for me.
• 49:25
  Speaker C: You have a beautiful 15 month old, and it was all worth it.
• 49:28
  Speaker A: Yeah. You can live.
• 49:30
  Speaker C: She's so cute.
• 49:31
  Speaker B: So I have one more question.
• 49:32
  Speaker C: Sure.
• 49:34
  Speaker B: Do you want more children?
• 49:36
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 49:36
  Speaker B: Okay, so you're gonna do the process again.
• 49:38
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 49:39
  Speaker C: So you can also get naturally too.
• 49:41
  Speaker A: Maybe it could happen.
• 49:43
  Speaker B: My girlfriend. My girlfriend went through IVF twice. She has two babies, and then she had a baby naturally.
• 49:48
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 49:49
  Speaker B: And she was like, like, like soon after. And she was like, oh, my God.
• 49:52
  Speaker C: What is happening?
• 49:53
  Speaker A: It's crazy that it can happen. Yeah, it can happen. But. Yes. So we only will have to do it half the process, because you already have.
• 50:00
  Speaker B: So you have. Do you have them on ice? Yes.
• 50:03
  Speaker A: I say they're in Elsa's Daycare.
• 50:04
  Speaker C: That's hilarious. Elsa's Daycare.
• 50:07
  Speaker A: Elsa's Daycare.
• 50:08
  Speaker B: But there's also, like, a lot of conversations to have after when you have them on ice, because like I said, my girlfriends are going through this now where they have. They know they have, like two or three left, and they're like, okay, like, maybe we want one more. And then, like, what do you do with the rest?
• 50:22
  Speaker A: So you can keep them forever? You can keep them forever.
• 50:26
  Speaker C: Oh, they last forever.
• 50:27
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 50:27
  Speaker C: But you.
• 50:27
  Speaker B: Then, I mean, you have to pay forever.
• 50:29
  Speaker A: Yes. You have to always pay. You have to pay a storage fee.
• 50:32
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. It's a storage for babies.
• 50:36
  Speaker A: Where am I right now?
• 50:38
  Speaker B: What?
• 50:38
  Speaker C: Video games.
• 50:39
  Speaker A: What's happening?
• 50:40
  Speaker B: It is crazy, but so, like, My girlfriend, she won't care if I'm talking about this. But, like, so she has. She has three, and we always talk about if me and her are gonna have a fourth, and she has these big. She has a big baby on ice, and she really wants to give her daughter a sister. She has two boys and a girl.
• 50:54
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 50:55
  Speaker B: And she knows she has one girl left. Right. And she's like, I gotta just have it. Like, I. Like, it's crazy to, like, think that science has allowed you. It's a up thing. Because, like, what if you. Like, for me, like, I'm probably not gonna have another kid.
• 51:09
  Speaker A: Sure.
• 51:09
  Speaker B: But, like, she knows I've never heard you say that. I mean. I mean, I don't know. But, like, so she knows that she's. She has this. This embryo waiting. And, like. And it could be like a sister to what? She really wants her baby to have a sister. It's like, that's a whole nother decision.
• 51:26
  Speaker C: What's stopping her?
• 51:28
  Speaker B: I mean, if she wants a fourth kid or not.
• 51:30
  Speaker C: Okay.
• 51:30
  Speaker A: But.
• 51:31
  Speaker B: But it's like, it's. It's right here.
• 51:33
  Speaker A: There's a lot of paperwork. Like, as you go through, when you're. When you're going through, you can. You can donate them to science.
• 51:41
  Speaker B: To science. Donate to science. I think that. I mean, I would. I feel like I would join it.
• 51:46
  Speaker C: To science.
• 51:46
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 51:46
  Speaker C: And your child be running around this world.
• 51:48
  Speaker B: No, to science.
• 51:49
  Speaker A: Science.
• 51:50
  Speaker C: Oh, they experiment on. Wait, that's even weirder.
• 51:54
  Speaker A: No, it's better when they test and, you know, and then. But you can donate.
• 51:57
  Speaker B: You could donate also, but you can
• 51:59
  Speaker A: donate to a family who is precious. You can, but then your baby is
• 52:04
  Speaker C: walking around the earth and you're not
• 52:06
  Speaker A: his mom, and you know what it's like, you know, to be like a mom, you know, like. And then all of a sudden, like, your baby is.
• 52:12
  Speaker C: Yeah, I don't know if I could do that. That's tough for me. Another family having my child. Yeah, but give him.
• 52:17
  Speaker A: What if they find you?
• 52:18
  Speaker C: He's mine. What do you mean by this?
• 52:21
  Speaker A: Literally mine. Blood, sweat and tears.
• 52:24
  Speaker B: Yeah, but if you're. If you're donating.
• 52:26
  Speaker C: Yeah, I know. I don't. That's hard.
• 52:27
  Speaker A: And it would. You know, it would really help a family.
• 52:29
  Speaker B: Totally.
• 52:29
  Speaker C: Totally. Yeah. People do.
• 52:31
  Speaker B: I mean, those are, like, really big conversations.
• 52:33
  Speaker A: They're no joke. Especially then there's conversations like, if one of you pass.
• 52:36
  Speaker B: Right.
• 52:37
  Speaker A: You know, you have to sign off. Yeah.
• 52:39
  Speaker C: There's so many things. So many things.
• 52:41
  Speaker A: One of the things you sign like, if.
• 52:42
  Speaker C: If, oh, you do sign before you
• 52:43
  Speaker A: pass away, then my husband is the one who is.
• 52:48
  Speaker B: So he could have those.
• 52:49
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 52:51
  Speaker B: And he could put them in his new wife if he fucked that new wife. That's a up thing to think about.
• 52:59
  Speaker C: Okay.
• 52:59
  Speaker A: I die, and then this new woman gets my husband and my kids and my beautiful children.
• 53:06
  Speaker B: On that note, we're leaving.
• 53:09
  Speaker C: No.
• 53:09
  Speaker A: That's hilarious.
• 53:10
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 53:11
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 53:11
  Speaker C: Wow. What a journey.
• 53:12
  Speaker B: Thank you so much for sharing. I know it's like a vulnerable thing and it's very. But I mean, it is so important to talk about.
• 53:22
  Speaker A: I don't want anybody to think they're alone ever. Yeah, because you're not. You're not alone. It might feel like it in the moment. You're not alone. You're not, you're not.
• 53:29
  Speaker C: Was the worst. I wanted to ask you this prior, but what was like the worst moment you had during all this process?
• 53:36
  Speaker B: Do you remember it?
• 53:37
  Speaker A: The worst moment that I had. I had. I felt like nobody was listening to me the whole time, like, screaming, like, it's not. Like, this isn't working. Yeah, like what we're doing isn't working. I'm screaming for help.
• 53:53
  Speaker C: That's the worst feeling. Yeah.
• 53:54
  Speaker A: I felt like. I felt. Felt totally out of control. I felt completely silenced. I felt honestly, like all of my doctors were amazing, but, like, I felt honestly, like, the system is not made for women who need help, you know,
• 54:09
  Speaker C: and that's a good way to put it.
• 54:10
  Speaker A: It's not made. And you know, the thing is, is that I think the very, like, worst moment was, you know, like a 2am Wake up call. What's happening?
• 54:23
  Speaker C: Why am I going through this?
• 54:24
  Speaker A: Like, what's happening to me? Like, why the loneliness? Yeah. You know, I, like, just would sit there and cry, cry and cry. Call my mom 10 times a day, crying. Call my sister 10 times a day, crying, you know, So I think that the whole. The whole first miscarriage was the lowest point. And I'm talking like it was six months of my life that, like, I. I think I can say 100. Worst time of my life. I was so, so depressed. So depressed. Yeah.
• 54:54
  Speaker C: You had no one around you going through this at all? No. You were really alone?
• 54:57
  Speaker A: No. And, you know, I will say, like, it does not help to hear, like, when, when you're going through it, people are like, well, at least, you know, you can get pregnant. At least you, you know.
• 55:06
  Speaker C: Is that one of the worst things to hear?
• 55:08
  Speaker B: Yeah, actually, I wanted to talk to you about that. What is. Like, what should people Say. Yeah, what should people say and what should people not say for someone that's going through ivf? Let's say you're. You open up and you tell someone, like, you know what? I'm going on this journey. I. This is what's happening. What's something we should not say for people who have not gone through it?
• 55:25
  Speaker A: I think, like, saying to people, like, again, like, at least you know, you can get pregnant. Like, that's insane.
• 55:29
  Speaker B: Right?
• 55:29
  Speaker A: You know, that's insane. I think that. I think that, like, it's very hard, and I. I know this to be true because obviously I've been pregnant. It's so hard when you're pregnant to not talk about being pregnant and not talk about your children.
• 55:42
  Speaker C: Oh, yeah.
• 55:42
  Speaker B: If.
• 55:43
  Speaker A: If you have a friend that doesn't have children or even has a child and is going through infertility, like, the best thing that you could do, unless they want to talk about their children, is like, just don't talk about children. Don't talk about pregnancy. Don't talk about children. You have to be okay with. If they don't want to attend your baby showers, you have to be okay.
• 56:00
  Speaker C: That's where I'm at. Like, how do you. If you don't want to tell someone about your. What you're going through, how do you tell them? Like, I think without them thinking, they're just going to be like, you're not coming to my baby shower. But they don't know why.
• 56:09
  Speaker A: They don't know why.
• 56:10
  Speaker B: Right?
• 56:10
  Speaker C: That's the hardest part, I feel. And it is.
• 56:12
  Speaker A: And, you know, I remember, like. Like, I remember back then being like, I'm not telling anybody what I'm going through, and then I'm also not showing up to things, and people are probably thinking that I'm just, like, mean.
• 56:24
  Speaker B: Right?
• 56:24
  Speaker A: And in reality, it's just that I'm hurting, you know? And I thought to myself, in this moment, this moment for me at this time is private, and when I come out of it, I'll share my experience, what you're doing right now, and they'll understand then.
• 56:38
  Speaker B: And, you know, and I think that's very, like, valid.
• 56:41
  Speaker C: Yeah, it's. But during. It's so hard. It's like, you want to tell somebody, but you don't want to talk about it, but you're not showing up because you can't show up. And it's like all these things and
• 56:48
  Speaker A: no one will know. No one will know.
• 56:50
  Speaker C: And they just create this.
• 56:51
  Speaker B: That happens, though, like, in life a lot. Like, with. I don't know, maybe like, grief or something. Like, people are grieving in different ways, and it's just like, I don't want to talk about this right now. And when I'm ready, I will come out and you will understand why I was the way I was.
• 57:03
  Speaker A: That's it. And, like, I. I feel like, you know, one thing you can say to your friends or to people who are going through even loss, but who are going through IVF is just like, I'm here for you if you want to talk about it. Right?
• 57:18
  Speaker C: That's it.
• 57:18
  Speaker B: Like, I support you. I'm here.
• 57:19
  Speaker A: I'm here for you. That's it. And, like, I won't bring it up to you. I think, like, I think a big thing just in general in relationships is, like, setting the expectations, right? Like, if you know what I need from you and I know what you need from me, we're good.
• 57:30
  Speaker C: Yeah. That's a friendship now.
• 57:32
  Speaker A: That's a friendship. And it's a friendship. That's a relationship. That's, you know, familial relationships. Like, everybody knows what works for each other. That's good. So I think that probably if I would have discussed it with the people close to me, what I was going through, maybe things would have been a little bit easier on me because they. I would have had more people there for me.
• 57:51
  Speaker C: Of course, any, like, separation from family members, friends, during this process that just happened because of what was going on.
• 57:59
  Speaker A: Yeah. Well, I ended up just, like, kind of being like, I went into, like, a bubble by myself. And, like, I. I did it, you know, Like, I did it. Like, I. I removed myself from so much and from so many things and from so many people and from so many experiences. Like, I remember even thinking to myself, like, I. I literally thought to myself, I thought, oh, my God, like, this is something I used to really enjoy. And I. I don't enjoy it anymore. Yeah. Because I can't stop thinking about what's happening right now.
• 58:26
  Speaker C: I mean, in front of your face 24 7. You're, like, constantly reminded of it 24 7.
• 58:31
  Speaker A: So, you know, I very much feel like I ended up doing it. I was reclusive. Like, I just removed myself because I was so unhappy. And then I was like, I'm not gonna go be unhappy around everybody.
• 58:47
  Speaker C: Yeah, that's, like, the worst thing you can do.
• 58:48
  Speaker A: Yeah. Like, I didn't want to do that to other people. Like, other people had amazing things that were happening to them. And, you know, and I think another big thing, like, for, you know, anybody who's going through it. Like, it's okay to feel sad for yourself but happy for other people at the same time.
• 58:59
  Speaker C: Yeah. That's a hard.
• 59:01
  Speaker A: This, you know, separate. It's hard, but it's okay. Like, it's okay to be. Like, why not me? Right? Why can't I, you know? Like, that is okay. There's nothing wrong with feeling like that, you know, but, like, you do feel guilty, you know, and you feel guilty for feeling like that. But, like, you are. You can love people and be there for people in a way that is still comfortable and works for you.
• 59:22
  Speaker C: Right. And also be struggling.
• 59:23
  Speaker B: I love that.
• 59:24
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 59:24
  Speaker B: And like you. Like we've always said, you never know what someone is going through.
• 59:28
  Speaker C: You don't talk about that yesterday. Yeah. Just be kind, Be nice. You don't know when someone's dealing with.
• 59:33
  Speaker B: We're learning with you. Like, to all. Everyone listening, like, this was just such a great episode.
• 59:38
  Speaker C: It was really something special. I think whether it resonates with one person or a hundred. You're gonna touch somebody. Yes, for sure.
• 59:47
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 59:47
  Speaker C: I mean, touched me and I, you know.
• 59:49
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 59:49
  Speaker A: Well, you were looking at me in the beginning of this episode.
• 59:51
  Speaker C: Almost cried. I swear to God, I have to look away.
• 59:54
  Speaker A: Seriously.
• 59:55
  Speaker C: Drums cry she was almost getting down my eyeballs because I had no idea. Yeah. You know.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:00:02
  Speaker B: Well, thank you. Seriously. Thank you so much.
• 1:00:04
  Speaker A: Thank you, guys.
• 1:00:05
  Speaker B: Nicole Doherty.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker C: Nicole Doherty. She has a beautiful baby girl now, and she dealt with some. And look at her now. Yeah. So thank you for coming on my.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker A: We love you.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker B: We love you.
• 1:00:16
  Speaker C: That was a great episode. Good job, you guys.