Latest / Deep-Grace Diving with Tim Wright and Terey Summers / #22 Grief!

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#22 Grief! · Deep-Grace Diving with Tim Wright and Terey Summers

• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: Hey everyone, Tim Wright here.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: Wonder, or the Deep Grace Diving Podcast.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm here with Terry today.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: Terry is back with us.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: And she's not been with us for a couple months.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: This is her, technically her first podcast back.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: We actually did a couple podcasts prior to this one just to kind of give her some
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: runway to get used to being back at it.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: As we have said many times over the last few weeks, Terry has been...
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: Going through some deep, deep grief.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: And she is at a point in her life where I think she's willing to talk a little bit about it.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: We're getting it raw, right, Terry?
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, this is still fresh.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: You mentioned it was two months ago today that Jonathan passed away.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_02: Today's date.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_02: I've kind of felt the...
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_02: clock tick on Thursdays because of it happening on a Thursday night.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_02: But today is actually the actual two-month date.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: So we're going to talk about grief today.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: We all go through it.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: We're all going to experience loss some way, shape, or form.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: It might be the loss of a loved one.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: It might be the loss of a job, loss of a home, whatever.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: We all go through loss.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: We go through grief.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: But Terry is no stranger to grief.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: And so we're going to let her talk a little bit about it.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: But I just want to give people, Terry, sort of a sense of what you've been through in your life.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: You lost your dad when you were pretty young.
• 1:51
  22.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_02: You were 22.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: And your dad died from...
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_02: Cancer.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_02: It was a cancer that they were unable to identify.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_02: As a matter of fact, I think on his death certificate, it says undefined carcinoma.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_02: And it hit hard, hard and quickly.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: So how long was it between the time that you had the news and he passed away?
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you know, there were things going on that we suspected.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_02: He had an original diagnosis of cancer and quote unquote,
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_02: beat it when I was 10 years prior when I was 12.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_02: He was a weightlifter athlete and he had a gym in our home and a pulley broke and
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_02: he worked out with his brother,
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_02: Jim,
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_02: his younger brother,
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_02: Jim,
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_02: and a pulley broke and the weights came down and hit my dad on the right side of
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_02: his head.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_02: Well, he died.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_02: didn't pass out or anything but it was quite an impact and then about four or five
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_02: months later experienced some ringing in the air and things lo and behold there was
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_02: a tumor that had developed there and they um it was the same weird undefined
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_02: carcinoma so they uh removed it surgically there are all these things that were
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_02: supposed to happen that really my dad
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_02: great through,
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_02: God's grace just really got by without,
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_02: but they had to give him so much radiation that they told him at the time.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_02: Cumulatively.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_02: I know this sounds unbelievable,
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_02: but it's true that he had the equivalent to the bomb that was dropped in Japan.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_02: And they kind of said that,
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_02: That alone could bring it back.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_02: And in fact, it did.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_02: So I want to say we learned...
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_02: No one could figure it out.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_02: Even,
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_02: even the doctor that did the original surgery,
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_02: he actually missed something two years prior in a scan,
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_02: uh,
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_02: when my dad was having weird symptoms.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_02: And so when he went to Stanford,
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_02: my uncle worked there,
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_02: university hospital,
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_02: and in August of two of us,
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_02: excuse me,
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_02: no 86,
• 4:23
  1986.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_02: And, um, they discovered very quickly that in fact,
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_02: that original doctor had missed a return that had been two years prior.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_02: And that really could have saved my dad's life.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_02: He detected that.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_02: But it had already metastasized and was oddly pretty much everywhere.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_02: So from the time we learned it in August,
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_02: late August,
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_02: early September,
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_02: he died on February the 7th of 2000.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, excuse me, I keep saying that, of 87.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_02: That's not very long.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: And of course,
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: grieving as a young daughter or a dad is different than the kind of grieving that
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: you are going through now.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: And you'll have to remind me of the years, but you were married prior to Jimmy.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember the phone call I got.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: I was in Minneapolis.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: And so tell us a little bit about that.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, Tim, you were one of the first I personally called or someone connected us that night.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_02: Jim died.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_02: It was a surprise and still don't totally have clarity on it 100%.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_02: It was definitely heart attack related, but
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_02: They never could determine for sure if the heart attack happened and then the car
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_02: accident that followed was a result of that.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_02: Or had he gotten ill,
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_02: which he was earlier that evening,
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_02: and passed out and an impact caused the heart attack.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_02: But regardless, he died in 2007.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_02: Excuse me.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_02: Just...
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_02: Oh,
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_02: in the evening,
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_02: returning home from – he visited his dad and brother,
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_02: and he was just returning home.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_02: And his car left the freeway, witnesses said, uneventfully.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_02: And he exited without braking at 65 miles an hour and hit a tree.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_02: He was an engineer,
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_02: and I kind of joke about it a little bit,
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_02: that after seeing the car – it was a Honda Element –
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_02: he couldn't have aimed that there were,
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_02: I mean,
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_02: it landed right smack in the center of like this U shape,
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_02: the tree that he hit.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_02: And, um, it was just kind of like his life to measure everything down to the, um, but that was a shock.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_02: And, um, uh, I learned from, uh, police trying to get in touch with me.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_02: And, uh,
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_02: Jim had struggled with depression,
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_02: and we'd been in a place between the two of us,
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_02: and I kind of had fear that he might have taken his life because of the vagueness
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_02: of the phone calls.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_02: So I hate to say I was a bit relieved that it was what it ended up being,
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_02: but it flipped me upside down in a very different way.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_02: I was a little different back then in terms of just –
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_02: what God had done in my life.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I was on the cusp of great change and then sought great change.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_02: I lost 170 pounds, um, uh, that, you know, came on.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_02: in a time when i think i was living in a lot of hurt um i wanted children and i
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_02: learned we couldn't have any and i feel like not excusing myself but i mean i think
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_02: food just became a substitute and i was very large and uh and the death of jim um
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_02: as i'm sure it does for anyone with a loss it does and a spouse in particular it
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_02: does make you
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_02: pause and in that time I um conquered a lot of things a lot of fears I'd struggled
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_02: with some anxiety uh which interestingly enough has kind of come back a little bit
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_02: but um
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_02: It was a powerful time in my life where I thought maybe this was a joke.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_02: I really struggled with the idea of being alone.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I think from my childhood, I always feared I would be left or abandoned.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_02: And here I was left and abandoned, essentially, I thought.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_02: And so the grieving was big.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_02: The loss felt different.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_02: I recognize a lot of the same things that I'm feeling right now,
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_02: but there's so much that's totally brand new and totally piercing.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_02: that I don't ever recall from either my father's death,
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_02: which was debilitating too,
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_02: and then,
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_02: of course,
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_02: Jim's.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_02: So, yeah.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and you can tell us whatever you want to tell us, but with Jimmy's death, you weren't there.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: It was whether an accident or sickness or heart attack, you got the call from the police.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: With Jonathan, you were there.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: And you were celebrating your anniversary.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_02: Sorry.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_02: I'm going to make it.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_02: I'm totally fine.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, you just talk about the things that are going to be okay for you.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_02: It's good.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_02: It's just so fresh.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, I'm an easy crier, too, just to be fair.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_02: But we had been pulling out of, for about a year and a half,
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_02: I'm more than pulling out.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_02: We had arrived at a place and we're continuing to grow in it.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_02: And,
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_02: and actually,
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_02: I guess like a plane taking off,
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_02: we were,
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_02: reaching altitudes that were not,
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_02: they were new to us in terms of just,
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_02: um,
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_02: being free from some repeated challenges.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_02: And really almost most of our marriage had one thing after the other.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um,
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_02: And then just us navigating through that as two individuals who had,
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_02: when you marry as an adult in your middle age,
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_02: there's so much you bring to the table that you don't grow together with as if you
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_02: marry in your younger years,
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_02: not to say that's still not going to arise.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_02: But so we were just in a,
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_02: to coin a phrase,
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_02: we were in a really good place and one of the best places that we had as of yet
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_02: been in.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_02: So we, um, wanted to be, I'm a fan of, um, the pines.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_02: And so is Jonathan.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_02: Uh,
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_02: he was a mountain ish kind of guy also love the ocean,
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_02: but so we wanted to be in the mountains and we had not never,
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_02: um,
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_02: traveled to Greer and,
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_02: um,
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_02: I'd always heard of it and wanted to go.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_02: And we had such a lovely drive up.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_02: It was, uh,
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_02: Unlike any that we'd ever had traveling.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_02: And there's lots of reasons for that.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_02: We don't really need to flesh out here, but it was just a great day.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_02: And when we pulled in through Greer,
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_02: our heads,
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_02: it's a one road in and our heads are just turning left to right,
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_02: taking everything in.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_02: And we were having conversations like, what would it take to have a cabin up here?
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, this is just...
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_02: tranquil and stunning and so um when we got there it the sun was going down and it
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_02: started to rain and so we didn't want to venture back out that long road to grab
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_02: something to eat so i had gotten us a cabin uh one of the only places last minute
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_02: to grab one which was at a resort called edelweiss and a german influenced
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_02: um, resort.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_02: And,
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_02: um,
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_02: we were actually in a cabin,
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_02: but they had a restaurant in the resort and they let us bring Dixie in.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_02: So we did have dinner.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um,
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_02: and in the dinner,
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_02: he got,
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_02: we had to eat in the bar,
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_02: uh,
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_02: because of bringing Dixie in,
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_02: but he went and walked up to the bar to grab our drinks.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_02: They sat in iced teas for both of us.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_02: And
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_02: He got up and he said, gosh, my legs are killing me.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I didn't remember that until just recently.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_02: But long story short,
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_02: when we finished the meal,
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_02: I had driven down after putting our luggage quickly or not our luggage,
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_02: actually.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_02: No, we just I just went in to look at the cabin.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_02: I'd driven down.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_02: Jonathan walked down with Dixie.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_02: So on the way back up, I said, babe, do you want to ride?
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_02: And he because it was raining and lightly, but it was his note.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_02: my legs are killing me.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_02: And Jonathan was not a person to, to, to note out loud things like that.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_02: Like he just was not.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_02: And so I kind of tilted my head in curiosity.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember thinking to him, Oh, I'm so glad I brought some Tylenol.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_02: And, um, I drove and he made the way up.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_02: And when I got up, I saw my peripheral vision.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_02: He was leaning against the post, which also seems strange to me.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_02: Uh,
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_02: And, um, we, I took the, I had the keys from dry and I took Dixie.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_02: I opened the door, I got inside and literally four or five steps to get her some water.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_02: And I turned around and he was propping himself up.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_02: It appeared on the back of the sofa.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, dang, he's hurting.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_02: And he said, my back is killing me and my legs.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_02: Well,
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_02: I said, I got a little scared.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_02: I said, because this is something so unusual for Jonathan.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, can I, should I call?
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_02: What's the matter?
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_02: He goes, I don't know.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_02: That even scared me more.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_02: And then I said, should I call someone?
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_02: So I said, can you come sit down?
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_02: So when he moved, he moved like Frankenstein.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_02: It was like he could barely get one leg to move and all this sort of,
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_02: led in to what was going to soon unravel but um so we sat down and there was a
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_02: bathroom just literally like
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_02: a footstep and then into the bathroom.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_02: I was right there near him.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_02: And I heard him grunting like, and I thought, Oh, he's trying to get up and his back's hurting.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_02: This is not necessarily a mystery because Jonathan did sometimes when he overworked
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_02: had a weird back thing,
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_02: but we'd been driving for six hours.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_02: So I was just adding all this up as to,
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_02: so when I came out of the bathroom and I just,
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_02: Oh,
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_02: he said,
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_02: I,
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_02: excuse me.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_02: He was not vulgar, but he,
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_02: brass he said i gotta pee but it sounded weird like i don't miss anything and i
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_02: this whole experience has just reiterated that i just heard a different tone like
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_02: almost softer which he was soft-spoken but like cotton in your mouth sort of and i
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_02: said what and he reiterated with a little bit more vibrato i've gotta pee so i
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_02: hurried we're talking just seconds and i came around
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_02: And he was at the edge of the sofa.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_02: So in fact,
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_02: he was trying to get up,
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_02: but he was looking at me and the look was,
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_02: uh,
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_02: I had not recognized that look before and it was vacant.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_02: It was becoming vacant.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_02: And he was trying to say something to me and I'm like, babe, Jonathan.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_02: And about the second Jonathan,
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_02: I started to freak out and I started slapping his face thinking maybe,
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_02: he was having a seizure or I don't know.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_02: And it then just went very quickly.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_02: I called 911 and,
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_02: uh,
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_02: I saw movements in his head and he did wince once,
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_02: like not audibly,
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_02: but drew his eyes in as if something hurt.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_02: And then it was very brief.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_02: And then
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_02: he tilted his head and then that look became more and more vacant and his mouth was
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_02: open and the 911 operator asked me if he was breathing.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_02: And I,
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_02: I'd had my hand around his head and was,
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_02: he was leaning against the back of the sofa or futon rather.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_02: And, and I was trying to feel for a pulse and,
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_02: sense by cupping my hand over his mouth, if I could feel anything.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, I don't think so.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think so.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_02: And then he made a noise,
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_02: a breath like noise that at the time I interpreted as a gasp,
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_02: but also having,
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_02: I was with my brother-in-law when he passed away and there was something familiar
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_02: when he exhaled.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_02: And so in my spirit, I thought, oh, and I was holding onto him.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_02: at that time.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_02: And my heart,
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_02: my spirit resonated that he went from hearing my voice and having me hold him that
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_02: he was with Jesus.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_02: It was a surreal feeling,
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_02: but I continued to do what the 911 operator said because I thought even if he is gone,
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_02: I know they do things.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_02: They revive.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_02: They're not sure what had happened.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I don't need to go through all of that.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_02: It was quite maybe another time because it was really...
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_02: I did recently listen to the 911 call again.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_02: I know people think, what are you doing to yourself asking for that?
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_02: But the night was so surreal that I, I had to, I'm that kind of curious person.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_02: I needed to hear it and, and it did help me.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_02: And like I said, maybe sometime we can revisit that, but, um,
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_02: in the moment I did what they told me to.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_02: And, uh, it was hard on me physically.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, I'm out of shape and this is not for weenies.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_02: Like this is intense.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_02: And, uh, I, uh, I felt like my humor showed up and also my, um, bravado and, um,
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_02: Uh,
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_02: I debated politely,
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_02: but assertively with,
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_02: um,
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_02: the 911 operator that I didn't want to hear her tell me they're going to be there
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_02: soon anymore.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_02: She needed to get me a time.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_02: And,
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_02: um,
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_02: anyway,
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_02: it was about 10 minutes and then they came and they worked on Jonathan for about an hour.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_02: But what we did learn hindsight is, which made so much sense.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_02: I thought maybe it was a stroke.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_02: I wasn't sure, but, um,
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_02: He per his symptoms and,
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_02: uh,
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_02: all the details that they,
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_02: in the interview that the doctor had with me and also the sheriff,
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_02: uh,
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_02: they,
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_02: they are certain without an autopsy,
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_02: which I didn't want to do.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_02: And they weren't going to ask that of me.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, uh,
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_02: he died of an abdominal aortic aneurysm that ruptured.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_02: It would have been what caused that extreme pain in his legs.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_02: And then it also travels to your back.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_02: And then the doctor said, did he complain of a stomach?
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_02: He didn't, but
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_02: I did see that his stomach in all of the efforts to save him,
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_02: they had to take his shirt off and everything.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_02: I did see that his stomach was distended.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_02: You know, he carried a little belly, but it was not that.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_02: So all that put together, uh, what he was, when I thought he was gone, he was, he was gone.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_02: So,
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_02: um,
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_02: and then my,
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_02: uh,
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_02: the evening went on with things that you just,
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_02: well,
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_02: they lay,
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_02: he's laying in front of me in the floor.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_02: They had me get Dixie out of the room.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_02: So I watched a lot of their,
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_02: heroic measures happen from the bedroom door being cracked.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_02: But they then, when they tell me, just like they say in the movies, Tim, we've done all we can do.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_02: And I'd already been writing that out.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_02: So it wasn't like a complete shock, but they covered him up.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's when, you know, grief hits.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_02: But if there's anything that says someone's gone, it's that.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_02: And his leg was sticking out with just his sock on because they got his shoes off.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't know.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_02: Those were chilling times.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_02: I hate that cabin.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_02: I hate the thought of it.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_02: It was so terrifying and frightening.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I know I'm carrying some of that still.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_02: But that launched...
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_02: I want to say not to be dramatic, but Terry radically me, I changed that.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I, I, I couldn't believe it.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_02: And to be honest, Tim, I still can't.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_02: To, to so much a degree.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_02: The, the,
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: So it's almost like for you, you've got this grief on top of grief on top of grief.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: Each of these grief experiences are different.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_00: But this third one,
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: the trauma of that whole experience,
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: the helplessness that you felt,
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: what's going on,
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: the questions,
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: and then to have to relive that in your mind over and over again,
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: and then to be grieving at this stage of your life.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: right where you sort of had these plans and yeah we're ready to go what have you
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: what i shouldn't say what have you learned what are you learning about grief this
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_02: time around well besides that it sucks no yeah um
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, gosh.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_02: One of the very first word that came to mind is that it is a relationship I entered
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_02: into with within me with the pain of losing someone.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_02: And what I mean by that is like there's conversations that grief and myself have.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_02: though grief is also part of me.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_02: It's this place I don't want to explore, but I have no choice.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_02: So this relationship has been forced on me.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_02: And that it's very internal.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_02: I couldn't quite,
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_02: I wasn't one to break it down,
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_02: but to differentiate,
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_02: but I read something or I heard something,
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_02: someone speaking,
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_02: and I've been so curious.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_02: This time,
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_02: because I am so boldly and bravely different than I was in 2007,
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_02: because I have fought through some things.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_02: I gained a lot of that weight back in the gaining of that weight.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_02: I had to say, what, what, what is this?
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_02: What, what is it?
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_02: What's going on?
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_02: There's something deep, deep, deep in there.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_02: that has you returning when you thought you conquered something to take care of something.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I did find answers and have been through the digging.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_02: So this time with grief,
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like I'm gonna,
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_02: well,
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_02: off the bat,
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_02: I did not want to have anyone here with me when I came home.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_02: My brother and sister-in-law drove up that night
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_02: I was keeping them abreast of things,
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_02: hoping there would be that they would paddle him and that that would change things
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_02: and they would be taking him to the hospital.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_02: So over that hour, I was constantly checking in.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_02: Well,
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_02: when I had to say to my brother,
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_02: he's gone,
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_02: they said he and my sister-in-law,
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_02: Michelle,
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_02: said,
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_02: can we come?
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_02: Do you want us to come up?
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I am not someone to ask for things like that, but I knew I had, I said, absolutely.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_02: I could not get my mind around even staying in this space, uh,
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_02: by myself.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_02: Now, as it turns out, I was with the sheriff who's interestingly enough named Jonathan.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_02: And then the coroners come and what have you.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_02: So I was only by myself about an hour,
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_02: but Mark and Michelle,
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_02: um,
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_02: they drove up,
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_02: it was about a six hour drive,
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_02: they left at nine and they got there at three.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_02: But, um, uh, the, uh,
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_02: The wherewithal that I had to say I want to be by myself was this position that I
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_02: don't want to miss anything in the grieving.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want to...
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_02: I have a fearlessness about that,
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_02: and I know it's anchored in my faith,
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_02: but I knew that in previous losses,
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_02: like I remember after Jim,
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_02: I stayed at my mom's house.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't know that I...
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_02: felt like going home.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_02: I stayed at my mom's house for probably seven days or something like that,
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_02: but I just didn't want to,
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't want to wallow in this,
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_02: but I wanted,
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_02: it's,
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_02: it's not wallowing.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_02: It is taking it as it comes because I don't get this opportunity to do grief from
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_02: the beginning with a loss.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_02: And so I would get phone calls and text messages or,
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_02: Or is someone staying with her?
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_02: Like I even see it on social media.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_02: All my nieces would, they call me Bobo.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_02: Bobo, we don't think you should be by yourself at this time.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_02: And I totally understand the need to comfort,
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_02: but I didn't want to be distracted and I didn't want to miss because I loved
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_02: Jonathan so deeply.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_02: I wanted every minute of,
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_02: Of what grief has brought me.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_02: Because it was because of my love for him that I was grieving.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_02: One couldn't be separate from the other.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_02: So.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: Boy, this is Terry.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_00: Can I just say here?
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think I've ever quite heard that perspective on grief shared in that way before that.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: that you wanted to have this relationship with grief because you loved your husband so much.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: And this is just a part of that love.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: And you have, you have to go through this.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: Especially in our culture where we just come on.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's been a week.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: Move on.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: And people who are grieving like you, you know, it's not about a week.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's about the rest of your life, but that you're, you're not running from it.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: You're not necessarily.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_00: enjoying it but it is a part of your relationship with jonathan yes that you do him
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_00: honor and you do yourself honor by saying i'm going to take this grief seriously
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_00: i'm going to feel it i'm not going to be afraid of it i'm not going to wallow in it
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: i'm just going to live in a relationship and then and then where jesus takes me yes
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_00: you you i feel heard thank you yeah that's really uh so terry tell me a little bit
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: you know i think sometimes
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: People of faith,
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: we have expectations put onto us that if we're people of faith,
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: that Jesus comes along and it makes everything better.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_00: And that's not necessarily how it works.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: How has Jesus been a part of this grief experience for you?
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: What does that mean that Jesus is even a part of it?
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_02: I go to an initial conversation when I had,
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_02: when I got the call from our doctor,
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_02: he was filling out the death certificate and our,
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_02: our doctor is a Jesus follower.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_02: And at the end of,
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_02: of all of that,
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_02: and of course I was relieved to kind of at least know without,
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_02: with,
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_02: with some,
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_02: without some doubt,
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_02: mostly,
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_02: you know it's pretty certain that that's what took him.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_02: But the doctor said, Terry,
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_02: Do you trust, and he used it in the present term, but it was inclusive.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_02: Do you trust Jonathan's life to Jesus?
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_02: Hands down, absolutely.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_02: Do you trust your life?
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_02: And that kind of set a tone for everything because
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_02: In trusting, this hasn't challenged my trust.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_02: I have curiosities like, seriously, the night before our anniversary?
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_02: And like, why in Greer?
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I don't want to ever go to Greer again.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_02: It's one of the most beautiful places in Arizona.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like, things like that.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_02: But in terms of trusting, it just set a foundation for every kind of question that might come about.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_02: And in that, I did have...
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_02: peace because I, I'm like the Bible speaks of, um, a peace that passes all understanding.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_02: And that is like, there can't really be words put to it, but it comes from this trust.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_02: And, um,
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_02: And then about three days in,
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_02: I have been one that spends my mornings in a time with God,
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_02: and they have become like oxygen to me now.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_02: I know that when we are in relationships with people that we love, particularly ones that we live with,
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_02: that there is by design an exchange that occupies us.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_02: Hopefully it's never interferes with the relationship that I seek with God.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_02: But it takes up space.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_02: And so that space is hollow right now.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I felt like a vacuum, like I wanted...
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_02: more of God with me because that was what I knew to be.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_02: I knew it.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_02: I knew it.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_02: I knew it.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_02: Just like I knew my love for Jonathan and Jonathan's love for me.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_02: So I was,
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_02: I was reading and I,
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_02: the scripture in this devotion of Jeremiah 29,
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_02: 11,
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_02: and I don't know what verbatim you might,
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_02: but for,
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_02: I know the plans I have for you.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_02: When I read that, I'm so sorry, it took my breath away because I trust that.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_02: And so I had to go, hmm.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_02: Three nights ago, I lose the love of my life.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_02: And though I have a piece that
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_02: He's with you and it's what our relationship was built on.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_02: It was what our conversations were about so much.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_02: So I have that,
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_02: but are you saying then you know the plans you have for me not to bring you harm,
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_02: to prosper?
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_02: And it wasn't a hard pill to swallow.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_02: It was just, okay.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_02: In the light of that,
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_02: I have had to,
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_02: I won't say I've had to,
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_02: I chose to let that be the platter that this loss rests on.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_02: It's almost like it was presented under that umbrella of
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_02: God knows.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_02: God knows.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_02: And those are answers that I might never understand or get,
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_02: but I don't have to,
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_02: to understand,
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_02: to know that he knows.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: Terry, this has been really good.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously you're just two months in to this grief and, and that you're have articulated very clearly.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: We need to grieve because when we love deeply, we, we grieve deeply.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_00: And what our faith does is it meets us there in the depths and carries us.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't take away the hurt or the pain.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: It just carries us through.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I've been in a pastor for over 40 years.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_00: And over the years,
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_00: I've seen probably the best and the worst in terms of saying things to people who
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_00: are grieving.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_00: Because we just don't know what to say.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_00: And there are some things that are just so, they're well-meant, but so trite and so on.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_00: But there was a post on your, somebody, you reposted it.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I took a screenshot of it because I just, this really moved me.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know why, but I want to kind of close with this and see sort of why you reposted it.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_00: When the skyline of our lives is forever changed and we don't know what to do, how to be, or what to say,
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_00: May God meet us in our grief in this place of emptiness and loss.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_00: May we hold the hard, the horrible and the hope.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_00: That's just whoever wrote that, that, that really says it all.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_00: And, and the, the, that God holds us in the horrible.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_00: In, in the hard with hope.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um,
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, may God meet us in our grief.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_00: That was just well said.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you very, very much.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's good to have you back.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: We love you.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_00: And we appreciate you sharing your story.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_02: And I thank you and Community of Grace just for undergirding me like you have.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_02: I appreciate it so much.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_00: You bet.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_00: So next week, we are going to make a little change, not huge, but a little change in our podcast.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_00: And we're going to bring our good friend John D. Burgess back with us.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: And the three of us are going to do a Bible study together each week on the Gospel of Mark.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: from the Bible, the New Testament.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_00: We get so many questions asked about faith and about life.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought, you know, a lot of those questions need at least context.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_00: And Jesus gives us the context.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_00: So for folks who maybe don't have the time or haven't had the chance to do a Bible study,
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: never done one,
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: we're going to do a little three Bible study together,
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_00: three of us.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_00: And people can listen in.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: And so we hope that you'll join us for that.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_00: If this grief...
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_00: Podcast has been helpful.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_00: Share it with somebody and let them know that God loves them too.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_00: And that grief is okay.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_00: Grief is a gift of love.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_00: It hurts, but it's a gift in the end.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I hope you'll join us for that.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_00: Terry, again, thank you.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Tim.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_00: Let's get some Morse code in here.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_00: Just remind us that we are graced.