Transcript

Relly Nadler · Calm Under Fire

Col. John Boggs: Welcome back to Calm Under Fire. I'm Colonel John Boggs. I'm the president of Fortitude Consulting and Fortitude is a executive leadership development and coaching firm. And today we have Relly Nadler, who has spent more than three decades helping leaders perform at a high level without burning out in the process. Now his work focuses on emotional intelligence, self-awareness, and what happens to decision-making when pressure takes over. He works with executives and teams to move from reactive fast thinking to more intentional steady leadership. Today, we're talking about what it takes to stay calm, Relly Nadler: or just a little bit a pain in the face to speak. Col. John Boggs: clear and effective when the pressure is internal and constant. Raleigh, thank you very much for being here today. Relly Nadler: Thank you, John. I'm excited about this conversation. Col. John Boggs: Perfect. Perfect. Well, do you mind if we just go right ahead and start? Relly Nadler: Yeah, let's do it. Col. John Boggs: Great, great. You work with leaders who are performing, but often they get overwhelmed. When does pressure start to affect how they think and lead? Relly Nadler: Yeah. So it affects them when they start getting a little bit more on overwhelm. I mean, we all, you know, the pressure and, know, from the military, mean, many of us perform really well. So in Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Relly Nadler: psychology, they have that upside down U where anxiety moves up and it's right at the maximum at the top of the U. As it goes down on the U, too much anxiety, too much pressure. too little time to reflect and therefore people don't perform as well. So, you know, I'm a psychologist and a master executive coach, but I've given a lot of IQ tests in my training. so Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Relly Nadler: IQ is basically a hundred points plus or minus 15. So most of the people you deal with that I deal with, they're a standard deviation above 115, 120 CEOs are supposedly 125. And if you have too much anxiety, too Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Relly Nadler: much pressure, and you don't have the time to think and reflect, you get what I would call stinking thinking. Now, stinking thinking can be here. Normally you're operating at 115 to 120 and you have stinking Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Relly Nadler: thinking, you're hovering around a hundred. You're only average because the way the brain is focused in all this stress, it limits our perspective. And Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Relly Nadler: so, you you see me kind of in this field here and this is behind where I live in Santa Barbara in the Hawaiian country. But Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Relly Nadler: if you have a lot of stress and you get the sympathetic nervous system going and you're nervous and you're anxious, it zeroes your perspective. And some of the research by Richard Boiazes, Case Western, talks about how little is that? About Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Relly Nadler: 20%. So if I'm like this, you see me, if I'm like this, what am I missing? I'm missing Col. John Boggs: my. Relly Nadler: all the opportunities that could be out there or what other people have to say. And I get this narrow focus. So it's the idea of slow thinking. What are great leaders do? They take the time. Doesn't have to be hours. It could be Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Relly Nadler: moments of calm and Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Relly Nadler: it's called slow thinking versus fast thinking. Col. John Boggs: Is there a sign that, do you notice anything when a person is speeding up like that? Is there something, a telltale? Relly Nadler: Yeah. Well, John, everybody is different. And so when we talk about emotional intelligence, one of the key things is self-awareness. And in the category of self-awareness is understanding your triggers. So everybody is different. You know, be interested. I'll ask you kind of what's one of your triggers. One of my triggers, because I'm in the communication business as you are, is if I get interrupted. You know, it happens more in my personal relations and then I can get a little indignant and say, what am I, you know, why am I talking if I can't get a whole thing out? So that's a trigger for me. For somebody else, could be, feeling put down or criticized or not listened to, you know, so you really need to know what your trigger is. so that you can manage that. And so your question, John, all of a sudden I may feel myself getting a little upset or anxious and you want to be able to catch it. One of the experts in emotions, Paul Ekman talks about how do you catch the spark before the flame? What's the spark? Something's going on internally. I have some emotions. the scratchy chest or the sweaty palms. And if I can know what that is and give it a name, it's called Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Relly Nadler: affect labeling. That emotion can turn into a feeling. now a feeling is something I've labeled and I can maybe manage it. But if it's just kind of internally going on and I don't know what the heck's happening. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Mmm. Relly Nadler: So I always tell people, you catch what's going on quickly and redirect? So like, how about for you? Is there a trigger that you know just gets under your skin? Cause I'll have this conversation with leaders. What are your key triggers? Col. John Boggs: my, yes, I do have a trigger. My trigger is, there are certain words that will trigger me. And one of the words is, well, a couple of, it's I can't. I can't Relly Nadler: okay. Col. John Boggs: is just, that's almost like taking your fingers and dragging it across a chalkboard for me. Relly Nadler: It's beautiful. mean that's but that's a good sign. You know that when you go you can kind Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Relly Nadler: of hear that, Col. John Boggs: Yes, yes. Oh my goodness. So what does a leader do in those moments when things, you know, oh God, there's my trigger and it's bad. Relly Nadler: Yes. Col. John Boggs: What do you do? Relly Nadler: So what you do and it's going to be different in every situation. And I'll give you a tool that I pass on. But the first thing is you really got to just pause. And so one of the catchphrases that I have, John, if you stay on autopilot, you stay average. Nobody you deal with, nobody Col. John Boggs: Mmm. Relly Nadler: I deal with wants to be average. Now, and I do say if you're in the military on the front line like you are, yeah, you want to be on autopilot. If you're in an emergency room and you got to make quick life and death decisions, yeah, you're on autopilot. But for most of our folks, there is not an immediate emergency decision that they have to make in the next 10 seconds, 15 seconds. And so they can step back. Monitor what's going on and I talked about this vision, you know, it's about 20 degrees Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Relly Nadler: Just and you know this just taking some deep breaths connects the sympathetic to the parasympathetic You're a little bit more relaxed and maybe a graphic way to say that when you're more relaxed Whatever IQ points you were losing and Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Relly Nadler: kind of come back in those moments, so that would be one thing is to be able to breathe slowly and then step back and probably get curious. Okay. So what do I need to do in this situation or what are they telling me? Or what, what's the data that I need to have for this decision? Because why? Because I got time. Col. John Boggs: Mmm. Relly Nadler: So I'll give you a tool that you can do, because we're talking about emotional intelligence and for Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Relly Nadler: your audience. It's called the emotional audit. So we know what an audit is. Well, the emotional Col. John Boggs: All Relly Nadler: audit is how do we figure out what's going on? And if we are hijacked, and so hijacked means your emotions have taken over. And in a way, I like to say that your executive function here, like the gate goes down. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Relly Nadler: It's it's out for lunch. Sorry, out for lunch. Nothing happened for a while. And that's where you lose those IQ points. But if you can give what I would say, kind of like these AI prompts, I'm going to give you five questions. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Relly Nadler: And these five questions, one is a pause. So you have to get into the gap. And what's the gap? Stimulus. And if you're on autopilot, Same response, stimulus, same response. Oh, work before, work before, I'll just do this, automatic. What you want is stimulus gap, best response versus same old response. So these questions create a gap and they're better prompts that can allow you to enhance your IQ points. So the first one is in your stepping back, you're taking a couple... Deep breaths. What am I thinking now? And that's what's called meta cognition. You're stepping back. You're Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Relly Nadler: paying attention to your thinking. Now you're thinking about your thinking. I'm thinking this is awful or I'm thinking, I don't know what to do. Or I'm thinking, how do we get into this? Or I'm thinking, here we go again. Okay, fine. When we talk about triggers, Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Relly Nadler: Is there a pattern in your thinking? So that's Col. John Boggs: Mm. Relly Nadler: why I would ask them, you know, first, let's explore what it is. Probably Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Relly Nadler: not the only time you ever thought that. And if you're triggered, yeah, it's probably the same two or three things. How could they do that? This is, you know, totally wrong. and you need to know those triggers. So that's the first one. Meta cognition. The second one, Col. John Boggs: Meri- Relly Nadler: like we talked about, you go into your body and it's called, and what am I feeling now? Anxious, irritated, impatient. And if you're in a situation that you're triggered, it's going to be the same two or three things. Like when someone says, I can't, or when it's to you, or when they start interrupting me, I'm probably irritated. I'm probably impatient. It's not something way different. It's the same two or three things. And so you need to know that. What am I thinking? What am I feeling? Metacognition, meta-awareness. The third one, and again, this can happen in 15 seconds. So I say, ask the question, wait three seconds. Just notice what you're producing, thinking, feelings. The third one is, what is it that I want now? So that's meta-attention. Because if you're on autopilot, your attention isn't necessarily proactive. It's reactive. So what is it that Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Relly Nadler: I want? I want people, I want about to finish what I'm saying. I want to really communicate this so that people understand and we can have a dialogue. You know, that for me. Col. John Boggs: Mm-mm. Relly Nadler: When someone's saying, when you hear I can't, what is it that you want in that, would you say? Col. John Boggs: What is it that I want? Relly Nadler: Yeah, if that's the third question, you know, so what's your someone says, I can't do this. You know, you're probably feeling, you know, irritated. I don't know. Col. John Boggs: yes. Relly Nadler: OK. And then what is it that you want? Like you say, meta attention in this conversation, what is it that you want? Col. John Boggs: Well, what I want is for you to hear yourself as what I want. What I want for myself is to not be irritated, to be, I want to be able to think clearly and not get hijacked. Relly Nadler: Beautiful. So just think about that pause. So you got the thinking, the pattern, you got the feeling, the pattern, you got the want and just what you said. For me, it would be, you know, I want to communicate. I want to honor what they're saying. I want, I want to be heard. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Relly Nadler: Here's the key one. The fourth question, which is basically meta attention, meta awareness, it's raising awareness. Remember all these questions are creating the gap so that when you get to your reaction response, it's the best one. How is it that I'm getting in my own way now? That's a pattern. I'm raising my voice. Will you just let me finish? Will you just let me finish? That's not going to go anywhere. Maybe Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Relly Nadler: I've exhausted a little of my anger. But it's not effective. And everybody has their own pattern that gets in their way. And so when we notice that affect labeling, we could do something different. So is there a pattern that pops up for you that how you. Col. John Boggs: Yes, there is. I want to turn you off. I want to turn it off. And Relly Nadler: Wow. Col. John Boggs: in my work, that's not a good thing. Relly Nadler: But here's what's great about this, John. I mean, you're using some pretty strong words and great. And I mean, and you know this because you know yourself and you know from your experience. So it's like, OK, how am I getting in my way? I got a tone to my voice. And then, you know, for you, you want to turn them off. So we got thinking, feeling, want, how you getting away each one three seconds. Now you're at 12 seconds. Cause you wait to see what the last question is. No, and all that. So what do I need to do now to be my best? So think about that as an AI prompt. Cause we love AI and what it's able to do. We're not conscious about our prompts. So these are conscious prompts that we're talking about. What do I need to do now to be by best? Let me do my breathing exercise. Let me ask a few questions first. And as a, as you're doing that, your brain is slowing down and you're getting back your IQ points. So for me, it would be, what do I need to do now to be my best? I would take a couple of deep breaths. I would really kind of focus if I'm, if I'm going to react, I'd say, You know, this is important, but I want you to hear me. I'd love for you to just let me just get the whole thing out before you respond. But I'm saying that in an empathic way, you know, versus making them bad. How about for you? Col. John Boggs: Well, that's great. For me, I have to stop, take a nice good deep breath, and ask, what assumptions are you making? that leads you Relly Nadler: that. Col. John Boggs: to saying, can't. Relly Nadler: beautiful because we know the brain is this incredible predictive machine. And so why are we on autopilot? It's constantly predicting this is going to happen. This is going to happen. I should do this. I got to make sure for this. And just your statement, what are your assumptions slows that process down, you know, and it lets them to not fight. if it's an argument, you know, either side of the debate. Same thing for you. You that question is so good because it gets you curious. And what's the opposite of being curious? Judgemental. Col. John Boggs: judgmental, absolutely, I know, right? That's not good. Relly Nadler: So anyway, that's the emotional audit. And what am I thinking now? What am I feeling now? What do I want now? How am I getting in my way now? What do I need to do my best now? And again, it's that meta attention. Okay, so I know this, I need to bring that forward and bring forward my best. Cause otherwise I was on autopilot, which may not be my best. Col. John Boggs: Mmm. Wow. So help me to understand here the difference then between fast thinking and clear thinking. is speed, it's slowing down. Where is that? Relly Nadler: Yeah. Yeah. So Daniel Kahneman wrote the book, thinking fast or slow. The title says it, but you know, do you need, do you need more practice in fast thinking? Do your clients need more practice in fast? Probably not. We got that one wired. And so here's what's great about this, John, when they're talking to you or me, they're slowing down. We asked those questions and what I love about coaching It's one of the few times that you're in slow thinking you can reflect and you're going to ask questions. So tell me what are your assumptions there? They stop and they go, huh? Okay. And in coaching, you just did it. I would say you got to love the pause. Col. John Boggs: Yes. Relly Nadler: And why we don't take a pause. so when they're thinking, I got to just bite my tongue. Cause this is precious time. And that's the value of slow thinking. And what happens, they hear their own thoughts. It's not what you and I are saying. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Relly Nadler: It's kind of what they're saying. And they're going, yeah, I hadn't thought about that. that's a good point. that's a good question. They don't go there on their own. They go to the same place. Col. John Boggs: In your experience, what are leaders sacrificing when they don't realize this, when they stay in that reactive mode? What are they sacrificing? Relly Nadler: Wow. Huge. know, and I'm a have this masterclass I'm doing and one of as I'm preparing for it is what happens when they're reactive. We're all reactive. So depending on the person, one, we talked about they're going to have, you know, dumber decisions, you know, and so I'm just using graphic language more stinking, thinking nobody wants that, you know, and it's kind of like when the first thing out of their mouth, Is a decision, is that the best decision? It just, popped up. Does that really mean, and like your question, well, let's step back. Yeah, we could do that. What else? What else? So it could be bad decision-making or they react because of these emotions and they say something with a tone and attitude. It doesn't take much. And now they've demotivated whoever they're talking to, or if it's in a team, Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Relly Nadler: you know, let's say it's a team meeting and Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Relly Nadler: you always got that one person in the team, you know, who's going to come up with something counter, which is good. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Relly Nadler: And if the leader in the reactive state says, there you go again, Mike, be in the negative one. Two sentences or one sentence, I guess that is that derails Mike. It derails the team because unconsciously people say, this is not safe. I'm going to say something Col. John Boggs: Yeah. Relly Nadler: in my leader. So psychological safety is another big thing. You got decision-making, psychological safety, and then you've got the whole strain relationships with people. And when you know that, it happens in seconds. then it's trust. So another key factor of what's the consequence, Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Relly Nadler: less trust. Col. John Boggs: less trust. Could you talk just briefly about communications and how leaders communicate? Relly Nadler: Yeah. And I think, you know, it sounds like, you know, one for you, you know, being optimistic is big. And I think for a leader, they have to manage themselves. That's why emotional intelligence is so important. And then what do they say to others to help manage others? And so it's the framing of the communication. So, you know, this is a big challenge for us folks, you know, and maybe they share a little bit. You know, I have some apprehensions. About this and what we're going to do and, always using and versus, but, and we have an incredible team here. We've faced challenges. I know we can do this. It's not going to be easy, but we got to do it. So you notice, you know, I'm framing it, but you notice my voice and some of the empathy and really the nurturing of, Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Relly Nadler: of the team. They picked that up in their body. So it's, it's not only the words, it's, Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Relly Nadler: it's kind of the actions and they can feel that. And so I think one of the hardest things to be interesting, get your perspective on this, John, in leadership, it's inspiring others. And I think that's a hard one. I mean, it's not, I don't think it's supernatural for a leader to know how to inspire others. And I think that's as you're the communication you're saying. That's what the team needs. They need Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Relly Nadler: to be inspired. And then it's like, okay, well, what do you do? What's the steps to inspire some. Col. John Boggs: Wow, that's a great question. How do you inspire people? Wow. I often think that inspiring people is as much as your actions you take, it's your willingness to listen. And when we communicate, or a lot of leaders that I work with, when they communicate, unfortunately, there's over-communicating and then there's just not shutting up. It's not bad to over communicate, get the points out, but it's really bad when you're communicating nonstop. You're constantly talking Relly Nadler: Yes. Col. John Boggs: and you're not getting feedback. Relly Nadler: Right. Col. John Boggs: talk about a Debbie Downer, that's a killer. Relly Nadler: And and I think what happens I'm sure you may have seen this the person can kind of read They're not following me. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Relly Nadler: And So what's their autopilot? I got to keep talking. I got it. got it. I got to go over my point again What they're Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Relly Nadler: missing is on some level they've already picked up that they're not following They should stop Instead of more of the same, and this is where honoring that person, it's their wisdom. They've put a blanket on their wisdom and they should say, you know, I'm not sure this is going forward because now I notice what's going on with you. And what you could say is, you know, what questions do you have? But. Here is something that I pass on and John, I'm sure you'll after this, you'll pass it on because it's a simple thing. And I think Nike used to do this. could say, I could say, looks like you guys aren't listening. So what questions do you have? Who is really gonna say, I have a question. There may be one person, it's that person who Col. John Boggs: Hahaha! Relly Nadler: kind of lights the debate. Everybody Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Relly Nadler: else like, okay, this is not to place. But Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Relly Nadler: what if instead, the leader said, I can see, maybe some of you may have a hard time with this, ask me two questions, and then you pause. And just, you talk about communication, just the difference. Why? You want them to be thinking. You want them to be slow thinking. And when you say, and you have to wait for the pregnant pause. So, yeah, let me stop here. Cause I'm, I want to make sure it's a tracking. Ask me two questions. And then you wait like we're doing now for the pause. It'll be the most extroverted person. Someone's going to do it, but that's what a leader can do and should do because Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Relly Nadler: you want them engaged. You want them thinking. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Relly Nadler: And if you don't ask thinking questions, they're like on autopilot and they may just agree with you because they don't want to create conflict. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Yes, I tell my leaders, please try to speak as close to the end as possible. So don't start the meeting and start talking. Relly Nadler: it's the end of the meeting. Yeah, that's a great one. That's really good. Col. John Boggs: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you've worked with a lot of leaders and you've, you're very well accomplished, you're a very seasoned coach, and you've worked with a lot of leaders. What kind of internal pressures do you, what kind of internal pressures do you have you noted that leaders deal with that has them underestimate themselves? Relly Nadler: Yeah. Let me think about that. So it has them underestimate themselves. Col. John Boggs: Yes. Relly Nadler: Yeah. Some of it goes back to, think, their thinking, you know, and I talk about coaching as a thinking partner with them and for them. They're thinking about all the stuff. It's really slow thinking. Leadership is slow thinking. So I think what gets pressure is that they have to have, they're under the spotlight and they have to have an answer. further team for the board and they don't take a gap because we're talking about the gap and they need to get better at saying, you know, let me think about this. I need some time or, you know, I'm going to need some help on this because I don't know your role exactly. A couple of these role model questions. I need help. I don't know. Can they say, don't know? I mean, if you got the spotlight on you, I don't know. Let me go back and check with my team. let's say they're talking to the board. Can they say, I don't know? And it'd be interesting, your perspective in the military. Can you say, I don't know? That's one. Can you say, need help? And then the third one is, and you may frame this differently. is I made a mistake. Now for someone, you know, if it's critical, you're not going to, you may say, this didn't work out so well. Let's look at that. But those three things show that vulnerability, but it creates space that they don't have to be the answer person under the spotlight. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yep. Create space. Relly Nadler: What have you noticed with that bit of a spotlight? Col. John Boggs: Well, that's very interesting. One of the things I learned in the military was to say, if you don't know, don't say you do. I mean, it's, hey, you know what? I don't know, but I'll find out. It was Relly Nadler: Okay, all right. Col. John Boggs: always very quick. That's a very quick response. You know, I don't know, but I'll find out. I'll get back to you. But I'll find out. It was always, I don't know, but I'll find out. was almost... Hey, one, two, never stand there and BS your way through because you lose your credibility Relly Nadler: Yeah. Col. John Boggs: and you lose trust and you get a closer eye on you than you realized when you try and BS your way through. And Relly Nadler: Yeah. Col. John Boggs: that's what I've noticed that not only in the military, but in business. In business, so don't do that. Relly Nadler: Mm-hmm. Don't do that. it's that trying to create that learning environment. And I think the leader is, and we talk about inspiring. If they can say that, Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Relly Nadler: I don't know, but I'll find out. I like to say the leader is the emotional thermostat for the team. And so what does that mean? They set the tone. And if they're irritated, they're hijacked, they're upset, they're pressured, they walk in the room and everybody feels that. Now, supposedly, you know, emotions are contagious. That's why they're the most contagious person. It's about five or six feet out. You can feel this kind of vibration. Someone comes in, it's all kind of vibrating like, okay. Col. John Boggs: going on in here, yeah? Relly Nadler: And that gets them going. So that's why self-control for the leader is very critical. And understand I'm feeling pressure. I'm feeling like you need to know everything and go, you know, that's not right. Maybe that's my first response. I don't need to know everything. I got a team here. I got to empower them. So it's kind of knowing it's the what else question. Col. John Boggs: Okay. Relly Nadler: Don't always go with the first response. Okay, good. What else? What else? What else could be happening? And now you get that peripheral vision where you can kind of see more. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Well, this has been great, actually. But for leaders who want to improve, to know more, to connect with you, and something you've alluded to once before, a mastermind class, can you tell us about your work and your mastermind class? When is that Relly Nadler: Yeah. Col. John Boggs: going? How do people plug into that? Relly Nadler: Yep. So I kind of put it in the chat. And I don't know how people see that, but I can kind of talk about it. so this is next week. And it's really just an opportunity for me to share some of these tools that I have. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Relly Nadler: So I have these 10 tools called Leadership Keys. And it's all things to do in the Gap. You know, it's A lot of times I would talk about moment mastery. So if we create a gap, how do we fill the gap with the right things? How do we fill it with the right Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Relly Nadler: prompt? So the master class is just going to walk through some of these tools. One's called the leadership two-step. When you in, when you out. Another one is a feedback tool. How do you get feedback? You should be given feedback every day. What's your method? Delegation. You should be delegating every day. What's your method? There's a coaching tool that kind of goes through coaching steps. I've been training coaches for 25 years and know, aside from what I do and what are the steps? The one tool that I love, because you mentioned this, it's called the Assumption Ladder. And it's allowing people, have you heard, you may have heard of the ladder of inference? This is like a knockoff of that. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Relly Nadler: Are you familiar with the ladder of inference? Okay, Col. John Boggs: No, I'm not. Relly Nadler: well the Assumption Ladder is a knockoff, but it starts with What's your conclusion underneath your conclusion or actions? And that's what we see. You know, we see, we actually, we see conclusions actions. underneath that is what's the data? What do we know? And then that's the bottom wrong. The second wrong is, well, out of all this data, John, what'd you pick? Here's what I picked. We may be picking different pieces of the data. And then that then as a consequence, the third wrong, You're making assumptions. Well, if I pick something different, I'm making a stuff. We don't talk about that. That's invisible. And so the assumption ladder is like a slow thinking tool. So that's one of it. And so basically this masterclass will talk about that. And then I'm going to share a couple of tools around, um, what do do with emotions? There's a kind of some steps with what do you do with emotions? And then another one is, is about confidence. And that is around self-talk. So this is going to be our kind highlight that for folks. And I'll give you my website. So the website is www.drrellynadler.com. and there'll be some information about some of the tools and all that. Col. John Boggs: drrelineadler.com, that's the website. Is there an email address where they can reach out to you? Relly Nadler: Yeah, so the best one is just Rely Nadler, R-E-L-L-Y-N-A-D-L-E-R at gmail.com. Col. John Boggs: OK. Raleighnadler at gmail.com. Relly Nadler: Yeah, that'd be great. Col. John Boggs: Okay, perfect. Well, folks, we're closing this one out today. this is, hey, you want to, one, you want to coach, you want a good coach, Relly Nadler. And we can all use good coaches, trust me. You want to look into his master class, you want to reach out to him. Even if you miss the master class, please reach out because you're going to learn something, you're going to be better. You will just be better than you were. And that's always a great thing. So, Relly, again, thank you very much for being here. I can't thank you enough. You were awesome. And for everybody that's listening in, hey, leadership is too important to get wrong. It's too Relly Nadler: It's just kind of a...a play on. Col. John Boggs: important to get wrong. So please invest in yourself. Do Relly Nadler: you Col. John Boggs: the right things. And that's it on this end. Out here.