Latest / The Art of Costume Podcast / The Last of Us with Costume Designer, Cynthia Summers

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The Last of Us with Costume Designer, Cynthia Summers · The Art of Costume Podcast

0:12
I'm at the end one thing that they did wind up doing with the
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clickers and the bloater was they glossed the mop quite a bit
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because with the lighting, which a lot of its natural lighting
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because we're outside and will be first when they first said
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they wanted put gloss on, you know, as costume people were
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like that's what are we gonna do with the costume?
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Hello. Welcome to the Arctic costume
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blogcast. I'm Spencer Williams.
0:47
And I'm Elizabeth Troy, Glass. Spencer, how's it going?
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Oh my gosh. That's going.
0:52
It's been a it's been a wild few days.
0:54
I had a pretty crazy weekend. Hi I bet I bet it's a busy busy
1:02
season for us. I feel like dude I DJ this
1:06
weekend for Katy Perry. No you didn't.
1:10
I did. It was one of the wildest
1:12
moments of my life. Okay.
1:17
Okay. Spencer making his love.
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It was really wild. Yeah.
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It's just been you know Word season still kind of wrapping up
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for us. I'm excited to you know get into
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some fun new projects but I have to say I've just been obsessed
1:33
if a certain TV show and I just can't stop talking about is kind
1:36
of taken over my life. I think everyone is obsessed
1:41
with this TV show and its leading, man.
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I think you all know what we're talking about.
1:48
We are talking about The Last of Us.
1:52
Pedro, Pascal the DeLorean. Everyone is obsessed with the
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show, seriously? Like I so confession, it's a
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little bit of a different episode because I only watched
2:07
the first three Episodes because it is so stressful.
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Oh my gosh Elizabeth! Yes it is true.
2:15
Elizabeth has only seen the first three episodes.
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So this episode this bonus episode will be Sans Elizabeth
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I'm sorry I just already have a lot of stress with my life.
2:31
I don't need the fictional stress of what sounds like, it
2:35
could become a really real zombie.
2:38
Apocalypse and as much as Daddy, Pascal is amazing.
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He does not lower my stress level during the show.
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Well, that is okay. Because actually, today we have
2:54
a really exciting guest. I'm so excited to talk to.
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But first Elizabeth, why don't you give the summary for this
3:01
bonus episode? I will Spencer after a global
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fungal. It could destroy civilization.
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A hardened Survivor takes charge of a 14 year old girl, who may
3:15
be Humanity's last hope. That is The Last of Us get HBO
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Max and watch it. Please don't be an Elizabeth.
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Watch this immediately. No, I get it.
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It's a lot to watch, but you have seen the first three
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episodes and and that third one will destroy you.
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I am warning, you and that episode.
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Is actually hard guest favorite episode.
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So we'll get into that a little bit.
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But first, let's dive behind a wardrobe as we usually do.
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This series was created by Neil druckmann and Craig Mazin and we
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have costume designer. My friend, Cynthia Summers, she
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is so cool, I love her to death. She is so great, some for
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notable work. A Series of Unfortunate Events
4:03
on Netflix, for which she was nominated for an Emmy.
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I love the show. You have to go.
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Check it out. The F that's a little bit of a
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young show but the costumes are just a master class.
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They're so good. She also designed the costumes
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for altered. Carbon Snowpiercer The
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Baby-Sitters Club and coming up soon.
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She did the costumes for the new Goosebumps TV series.
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I'm very excited to see that. Did you ever read Goosebumps as
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a kid? I did not.
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Of course, under the genre stuff, I was not allowed so I
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can read. Well, I I definitely did and
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those books used to keep me up at night.
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Elizabeth, I'm so excited to watch The Last of Us.
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Thank you for coming and saying hi.
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But I think we're going to take a little break and you will
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depart ways and I will be welcoming in our guest.
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I'm so excited. Yes sad to see you go.
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Everybody have a wonderful episode.
5:27
All right, we are back and I am so excited to introduce my
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friend. The Brilliance of the legendary
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costume designer. Cynthia Summers.
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Hey Sevilla. Via.
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Hi. Thanks for having me here,
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today. I've been trying to talk to you
5:43
for a while. I know it's so funny.
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Every week, Cynthia, night text. There were like, okay, we're
5:49
doing it this weekend, and then she sent the old text me back,
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actually, you should watch next episode actually, episode 3 is
5:55
my favorite. You should just watch for the
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end, right, but I just, I can't wait anymore, you know, so for
6:04
all those who are listening, we've only seen episode 5 at
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this point. So, whatever happens this for,
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I'm sure is amazing, but we're not able to talk about it, but I
6:14
think we have plenty to talk about already so I only have an
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hour. Yeah, well first, I just take
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everyone back Cynthia and I'm first met back when she was
6:26
working on a little show, called the series A Series of
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Unfortunate Events, which I love.
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Yeah, I think it's a masterpiece.
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Funny story. I met Cynthia, I went to a
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museum exhibit. Ribbit.
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And I said if there's one costume designer meet tonight, I
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hope it's Cynthia Summers. I caught her in a line at the
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bathroom and we've been friends ever since that's so true and
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that was, I can't remember that was season one or two of Lemony
6:53
Snicket, maybe one believed, it was too because the octopus
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dress is there. Oh yes, you're right.
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You're right. But it was big.
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It was a big. It was an important show for me
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for the show and for me and so I was really like kind of
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StarStruck my Self with everybody that was in the room
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and all the amazing art and beautiful, beautiful work that
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was in the room. And then you showed up and I was
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like who is this like really adorable charming and cute and I
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like what's happening, this is great.
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I was like Yay I was so new at that point.
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I mean this was just like an Instagram at that point there
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was no blog, there's no podcast so you know, I really appreciate
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just that meeting given if his outside of a bathroom, it meant
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a lot. Lots of me back then.
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When I was first started, it was a map of God.
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Yeah. Well, let's dive into the last
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of us just like everyone else. I'm obsessed with the show.
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I can't stop talking about it. I haven't been this obsessive
7:52
for show since Game of Thrones, which actually there's some
7:56
similarities, which we'll get into a little bit later with
7:59
infected. Yeah.
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So my first question is I don't take you as much of a gamer.
8:05
So how did you wrap your brain around?
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This project when you started off.
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Yeah, funny little back story. I did a prequel to Halo 4
8:15
Forward until the dawn like a long time ago.
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And when is that? Yeah, I wasn't a gamer but I my
8:22
my oldest son was really into that game so that sort of dates
8:25
me a little bit but he was really into it when I was doing
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all the press for that, one of the gaming group said, will you
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come and play a part of the game with with us and I was like,
8:36
yeah, sure. And I got there, It was like my
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worst experience because, you know, you have to have that
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hand-eye coordination with the controllers and I just didn't
8:45
have it. I didn't have it.
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I would constantly was stuck in the corner and stuck in the
8:48
corner and it was very embarrassing.
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So I'm going to say right off the top, I am not a gamer, but I
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definitely have a huge appreciation for people who do
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get invested in these games and are able to play them and just I
9:03
get it, I get it. Now I think when gaming first
9:06
start came out every was like why?
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Our people young people spending so much time, you know, with all
9:11
of this, but I get it now and Last of Us is it's so well
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written and it's written like a script.
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So the translation from game to I think therein lies the success
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of it going from game to live action, you know?
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The characters are so well fleshed out, there's lots of
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backstory, there's lots of room for more backstory, more more
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characters to come in and have these relationships with our
9:37
main characters. So, so that's what attracted me
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to the game or 422 the game translation to live action.
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And also, when I met on it, Craig, Mazin pitched it to me as
9:50
a love story. And I was like, hmm.
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Like I saw lots of horrible things like really unsettling,
10:02
things and people are dying, and there's these relationships and
10:05
children and and so on that note that he gave me, I went back and
10:11
looked at it again and one of the things that actually got me
10:14
was like a piece of the game that I was watching or it was a
10:17
promo for a piece of the game where a clicker actually gets
10:21
stuck in a corner in the game and he can't get our he or she
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can't get his way to get their way out and oh my heart is blood
10:29
for them because you know this was a human, you know, that
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they're not evil they're just taken over by nature and they're
10:36
just trying to do what is Is inherently being told what
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they're driven to do which is to procreate and, and make more,
10:45
you know, connection with this fungi, mushroom world and and
10:50
they and their and their blind and they can't speak and they
10:53
only can echolocate. So I was like, oh he can't get
10:58
out of the corner and they're gonna shoot him and it's just
11:01
devastating. I'm is devastating.
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And then the story with Joel and his daughter and the just the,
11:07
you know, All the devastation that happens and then of course
11:11
he needs Ellie and that relationship.
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That's what I got it. That's when I was like, I see I
11:17
see I see and one of those games like I mean I'm a gamer and I've
11:22
played it. I've actually watched it more
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than I've played it, which really speaks to like the
11:26
storytelling in this game. I've watched other people play
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it which is like so counterintuitive and I think
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that's the beauty of it. You can just watch it, not play
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the game. All o Neil druckmann course
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would never want me to say that. That.
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But you could you could if you're not a gamer, you can
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definitely get into the game via the series.
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Right? And I think it's so beautiful.
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I mean, I mean, look at it. It's so beautifully shot.
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It's cinematically gorgeous. It's devastating.
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But the relationships are really real.
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They're very real. And that's also something that
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Craig had brought up to me at the beginning was, we're going
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to be in this poke post-apocalyptic world and I
12:06
don't want it to look like It's devastated landscape, as are the
12:11
people, but I still want to show humanity and I want to show that
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this could happen to us because these people look like us, you
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know, they dress like us to some degree.
12:23
They, they're going through the same challenges in life that we
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are going through. He wanted to feel very grounded
12:30
in that kind of way. So all of those things made it,
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you know, really attractive to me.
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Wow. Wow, I am I'm obsessed.
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So let me let's dive into the actual costumes of the show.
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That's right. And I have some pictures go
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along and just for my goodness, so much fun, right?
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So because this is such a popular game, you're working
12:53
with Neil druckmann and Craig Mazin, where is the line
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between? Because it's one of the world's
12:59
most popular video games. So we have these costumes are so
13:03
memorable but then also your Cynthia Summers.
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You're a costume designer. Is the line between like giving
13:10
the fans what they want. But then also just like
13:12
storytelling through costume design were, you know, not every
13:15
single moment there would be wearing the same exact clothes
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through 10 episodes. So where's that line?
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You know, I want to say this reference is beautiful because
13:23
once something that, I really didn't anticipate at the
13:26
beginning of this show, which is, you know, as a designer.
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It's okay. So I'm pitched all of this
13:32
backstory and all these beautiful sort of the overall
13:35
tone of the show. But at the end of the day, It's
13:38
like a jeans and t-shirt show. So and post-apocalyptic so it
13:43
felt very like my range was very narrow but that being said when
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you see the show as a whole it's just really beautiful and the
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costumes. I want to say this is probably
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the first show where the costumes have been.
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Not that? No that's wrong.
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It's not that every show I do is the costumes are the main event
14:02
but they're not the main event here and they but they are so
14:06
integral into helping. Characters.
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Be a part of this world that they're in.
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And I it's it's collaboration in the biggest sense of the word as
14:17
a costume designer, probably that I've ever done because the
14:20
tones the reference to the game, the sort of departure from some
14:26
of the references in the game, the placement of the of the
14:29
costumes, where they happen in the game and where they happen
14:31
in our story, our clothes or the same or in a completely
14:35
different place, but that was because the The timeline of our
14:39
story, just didn't map out the same way as the game did in some
14:42
instances, but what was really important was to hit to hit the
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same note as the big pieces in the game.
14:52
So Joel's hero luck if you will, after after 20 2003, then to
14:59
2023 that, you know, the denim shirt, the jeans, the chore
15:05
coat, his backpack, And his boots were really, really
15:10
important and they're not exact to the game, but I think when
15:14
you watch it. Oh yeah.
15:15
And his I think when you watch it, you'll see it feels the
15:18
same. I think that's what was
15:19
important because, of course, the Persona is there, the spirit
15:23
is still there, the spirit is there and, of course, we had to
15:27
take what was in the game and put it on real people.
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And then also put it on Pedro, Pascal fella Ramsey and you
15:35
know, all the other characters that come in.
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So you really have to pee Pay attention to what moves, the
15:40
same on the live action, Parshin of it as to how it moves in the
15:45
game, or where it goes in the game.
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So, definitely this outfit that you're showing on Joel on Pedro
15:53
is like, he's like the man of the hour and this outfit, I have
15:56
had so much response to what is this, where can we get it from?
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Pratt's, from Gamers, from cock players like crazy and which is
16:06
really interesting to me because Is I didn't ever think of it
16:11
that way, and I perhaps should have where it's kind of an
16:14
Everyman rugged Timeless assessable look.
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And that's exactly what Craig was after.
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And so now it's interesting because that's exactly what the
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fans are after, right? So everything from like, you
16:27
know, certain Publications are asking me and, you know, other
16:32
and its fans. As I was saying, it's funny.
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You say that? Because I mean, we'll get into
16:36
it later, but I got lots of questions about, like the
16:38
Flannels like, where can I get that flannel?
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I was like, where can get the flannel?
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I mean, probably anywhere. I'll ask, you know, Peppa Pig.
16:46
Totally, I want to know last night last night, very late.
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I got a request from, I don't know if I can say names of other
16:54
Publications and things here. But for a minute, from the
16:57
strategist, from The New Yorker who was doing a piece on this
17:00
exact look, and where did we get this shirt?
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And there was so much conversation in.
17:06
They sent a stylist out to look and find it acceptable.
17:08
Cetera and they did find the shirt.
17:10
But the key point I want to make about this flannel green plaid
17:15
shirt is it's in the game. We found it at a never say the
17:18
name, right? Fall ravan and it's it, the
17:22
Plaid was perfect. The color was almost perfect.
17:27
The drape of it really worked into something.
17:30
We could alter because, you know, we alter everything.
17:32
But the thing was everybody and I've had a lot of questions, it
17:36
looks the same but it's not like, The ours has to breast
17:39
pockets and the fall ravan shirt does not as its as it comes off
17:46
out of the factory and so people were like people obsess on those
17:50
small details. So last night.
17:52
Yeah I got this last minute. I think what we think it's
17:55
coming out tomorrow and just can't find it.
17:58
Is this really it? And so it is it we did a lot to
18:03
it though. We actually had to reconstruct
18:05
the entire front of it because Ads have to match and when
18:09
you've got 30 shirts because you need that many to get through
18:13
all of the action, he goes through his stunt double is the
18:18
all of that. And, you know, goes through
18:20
different levels of break down, meaning it starts off fairly
18:23
clean because it's worn by Frank and and then it gets, you know
18:30
you'll see it gets worse and worse worse, but also we wanted
18:34
to Pockets to match the game. They don't match exactly, but we
18:37
needed that. And it had some weird, you're
18:39
not weird, but it had this sort of inset zipper pocket, so we
18:42
replace all the friends. I think we bought them out.
18:45
Probably wow. Well from That season.
18:48
So that's where that came from and then we over died at we
18:50
tailored it to fit Pedro because he's you know look at him.
18:54
He's like a handsome guy to make him look rugged but handsome.
18:57
Oh yeah. He has 30 minutes in this
18:59
podcast or yeah yeah I got one Tick Tock question actually from
19:07
hidden Barrow and ask Interesting question.
19:09
I thought says, at the end of Life, as we know it, what
19:12
clothes remain? Where do they come from?
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And are they precious or common? I thought that was a cool World.
19:17
Building question that really is and I had a perspective, which I
19:22
spoke about on a DQ ad and they actually looked into it and keep
19:27
it. They looked into it from a
19:30
military expert who said I was dead wrong as far as what you
19:34
would wear at the end of the world.
19:35
However, okay. I think that, you know, for the
19:41
billions who have access to in my in my mind denim is something
19:47
that's Timeless. It's been around for a very,
19:50
very decades and I feel like something.
19:54
It's something that's accessible to everyone every age.
19:58
You know, every generation has worn denim in some way.
20:01
So I think denim was really important for us to show.
20:05
Also denim, denim can be denim styles are timeless Wearing 505,
20:09
Levi, 50, 50. And yeah.
20:12
And of course, we over died them and broke them down and did you
20:15
know, made them unique? But I think that's accessible
20:18
for people flannel as well. And these, you know, these
20:22
rugged sort of oiled tour codes. Also these are all things that
20:27
are made for work. They're made to be to be in
20:31
rugged environments and they're also made to help you know, help
20:36
keep people warm and dry Why you need to layer?
20:39
You need to do other things with it but they're good layers and
20:42
to me that felt like in a world where time stopped in a matter
20:48
of four days. So you've got whatever was
20:51
fashionable or fashion forward or how or whatever in 2003 and
20:58
then you also had, you know, what, people had been wearing
21:00
for the decade before that because you know, we keep our
21:02
denim for four years. Our favorite pair of jeans.
21:05
Our favorite shirt, our favorite t-shirts and things and And you
21:09
take that 20 years into the future, what's left?
21:13
I think that definitely jeans are something that are much more
21:17
durable and longer wearing than say, something that is 100% wool
21:22
or 100% cotton, that's going to be volatile to the elements.
21:27
And to people who are on the run and people who are on the move
21:30
and living wearing layers and layers just to stay warm in the
21:34
winter and things like that. So, and the fact is to, I mean,
21:38
We all know that fashion is a highly pollutant, you know,
21:41
destructive industry. So these clothes are exactly
21:45
made to just disappear in 20 years at this point.
21:48
Exactly exactly that's a really good point and I think that
21:54
their tunnels looking and you know these oil jackets are
21:57
they're more valuable to people as as they do age because they
22:00
he's in, they become they form to your body a bit.
22:03
They they sort of crinkle and move at the elbows in the right
22:06
places and they're super durable.
22:08
I mean we had to wreck them to get them to look like they do.
22:12
We have to boil them to take all of the oil out of them so that
22:15
we could break it down because you can't put break down on top
22:18
of oil, right? That was going to be a wax.
22:21
Yeah, that that was going to be one of my next questions is I'm
22:24
a big break down nerd and that first, yay episode.
22:27
When they're tossing bodies and a fire.
22:30
The boss accuse, he's a mess shirts are sweaty, there's
22:33
blood. I was like, oh, I can't wait to
22:35
get into this with Cynthia. So what was the break?
22:38
Down process like with your agers and Dyers.
22:41
It was deep and we had a giant team that came to us from all
22:44
across North America and came to join us.
22:48
It was like the busiest, busiest, part of my team.
22:51
I'm sure the continuity to. Yeah, continuity.
22:55
We had a core group. I think of 15 and when we did
22:58
the big episode episode 5, they had like up to 30 breakdown
23:02
artists, working in our building.
23:04
It was phenomenal. It was crazy.
23:07
But you know, Everything you see on screen, absolutely
23:11
everything, even the new, even the even Joel and Ellie's new
23:16
shirts that they got it. Bill in Frank's, so the Plaid
23:20
flannel and the iconic red, sunset shirt that Ellie.
23:24
Where's directly visuals from the game even though they were
23:28
newer there, they still had to be over died.
23:32
So that they looked like they'd faded over the last 20 years and
23:35
so that they look like they had fold marks from being full.
23:38
It up in a box for 20 years. So, absolutely every piece of
23:43
clothing, underwear, shoes belts.
23:47
Hats helmets. Oh, that's a whole other part.
23:50
My team worked really closely with the props team.
23:54
So, all the helmets, all the federal gear, everything went
23:57
through breakdown. So aging and dying and, and
24:00
destroying, and nothing went from a clothing rack to set.
24:04
It really shows someone. Actually recently said that they
24:10
really love the breakdown on Melanie links, olinsky's on
24:13
Kathleen's jacket. Yeah, and I remember seeing that
24:17
for the first time and thinking, wow, what an amazing job they
24:19
did. Because look at it, the caller,
24:23
I mean, it's not just degradation of the item, it's
24:26
just the, it's the pallet of breakdown, which was so
24:29
important on this show, because Craig also did not want
24:33
everything to be black. You didn't want everything to be
24:36
dark and dingy. So you see the Lady the woman
24:39
standing to the right of million that lower right hand corner
24:43
picture. And you know, that's like a
24:45
1980s style bomber sort of, you know, sweat suit top piece over
24:53
top of a leather jacket. You know.
24:56
So things like that, we just needed to make sure we had
24:59
because he didn't want it. He wanted people to retain their
25:02
personality and I think that that, I think that we without
25:06
and then of course the danger of break.
25:08
And is everything gets over died.
25:10
First, to take to knock the color down just so it is an
25:13
easier space start with doing the Aging.
25:17
So once you do that, you take the vibrancy out of things which
25:20
was good for us. But you also run the danger of
25:22
taking a lot of too much of the color away because of course,
25:26
you never know how a garments going to react to being put in a
25:29
Boiling Pot of water. Right.
25:32
And we'll talk about vibrant healthy in a little bit.
25:34
I love that scene in episode 5, just saying all the survivors
25:38
because These people have gone through hell and your team
25:40
really had to like add characterization to all these
25:43
different people and, you know, not one character looked out of
25:47
place. Yeah, look at Perry.
25:49
Perry was awesome. Jeffrey Pierce.
25:51
Interestingly enough in case. Anybody doesn't know.
25:55
He is the voice of Tommy in the game.
25:57
Yeah, he's a baddie. You fatty, it's a great guy.
26:01
I met him on another show. Maybe ten years ago that I did
26:05
and he played a completely different character and He loved
26:08
his jacket. So much of that character had
26:11
when he showed up for his first fitting for the last of us.
26:14
He was wearing it. No, wait, stop it.
26:17
And he looks like you just like you remember, we work together.
26:20
I'm like, of course, I remember, he didn't have a beard like
26:23
this, but Brandi, just kind of stood there in front of me going
26:26
like this posing and poking it out.
26:30
And I was like, oh my gosh, is that for jacket?
26:32
He's like I wore the jacket just for you, I love them.
26:37
Both sweet and He was incredible in this two episodes.
26:41
It's a bummer. We don't know.
26:44
I know, I know. And that beard.
26:46
He grew, especially, oh, yeah, it looks good on ya.
26:50
One thing that I was in love with and I even messaged you
26:53
about, it was the colors you used.
26:55
And this really shows also the collaboration with this
26:58
practical set, by the way, which still blows my mind, but
27:02
especially episode to you CLE against this apocalypse based
27:08
Boston. The pinks and the greens and the
27:11
Earth Tones, it is stunning. I was just like Blown Away even
27:15
her. Even her backpack, even her
27:17
backpack, the green and the blue and effect Gene work seamlessly
27:21
together. It?
27:21
Yeah, this is, this is I guess to my point where, yes, it's
27:25
jeans and t-shirt show, but this is the perfect sort of visual of
27:31
showing how the costume is important and how it works with
27:35
the environment. So well, and it does stand out,
27:38
but It doesn't, you know what I mean?
27:39
It complements everything that there and this is Ali's first
27:41
time out of the qz as well. She's never been on grass.
27:44
Right. This is wild.
27:46
Yeah, we just crazy. So, yeah, it was really
27:51
important. Also, these are colors that
27:53
exist in the game. So this sort of really sorta
27:57
saturated, mmm, some of it looks like it cranberry and some of it
28:02
looks a little bit more burgundy, but these colors exist
28:05
in the game and I think it was really important for To
28:09
incorporate that especially in this in this space, where it's
28:13
her first time venture out into the world and all the newness of
28:17
it and that upper left hand corner picture with the three of
28:21
them. What, what, an amazing group of
28:23
actors. Oh my gosh, that is an actual
28:26
overpass that goes from outside of Calgary, the city.
28:30
We were shooting in at, for this particular part, actual main
28:34
artery to the downtown core, which we took over / for not
28:39
sure how happy the residents were gonna say entire overpass.
28:45
And when you see it in the show, even below the overpass.
28:48
All of those broken cars that was all practical.
28:51
All saying, I'm sure the citizens of Calgary are probably
28:54
once they saw, they're like okay fine, but yeah.
28:58
You know, he's such a show for the City of Calgary and the
29:00
province itself of Alberta that we had so much support which was
29:07
great. It was great.
29:09
They still still a lot of support from them on this, so
29:13
it's gorgeous. That was amazing.
29:14
That was amazing. All these practical sets.
29:17
And I keep telling people like the sets really did were built
29:20
to about 40 at least 40 feet tall, all the only sane, the
29:25
same everywhere, all of that, Boston wall, the Fallen, the
29:28
skyscrapers. I mean, I can't say enough about
29:32
our John John pay, no our production designer.
29:34
My goodness, all of the sets just so Falls.
29:38
As for me, these sets fall right in line with Lemony Snicket
29:41
which were also phenomenal sets. Everything was built the much
29:45
everything. It was more contained in a
29:47
studio, whereas these most of them were on location.
29:51
We took over hold towns to make our towns.
29:53
I mean, we traveled everywhere traveled by jet plane, wow.
29:58
The crew, the entire crew because it was faster and more
30:01
economical to laughing of us are like, yeah, yes.
30:06
Yeah, I love it. Well, while we're in the
30:09
beginning parts of the show. Let's talk about some characters
30:12
who left us pretty soon but I felt like had great Nico kills
30:18
this role. I was blown away and then
30:21
halfway through I remembered the game I was like oh yeah well I
30:26
want to talk about Sarah just real quickly.
30:29
Her costume is almost directly from the game which I thought
30:32
was a fabulous Easter egg. I just want to give you a moment
30:35
to talk about this specific costume.
30:37
Yeah, it This one was important because when we were in 2003 we
30:41
don't have a lot of what's the right way to put this.
30:45
We don't have a lot of uniqueness in the costumes for
30:49
our three main characters, being Joel Tommy and and Sarah.
30:54
So and we didn't and of course we have mostly, you know,
30:58
construction workers and laborers.
31:00
So this was our moment to really pay homage to the game and, of
31:04
course, it's the opening. So it was really important.
31:07
The graphic and Name. Helican drops actually is
31:11
something that came directly from Neil druckmann.
31:14
His daughter who was too, at the time had named her, one of her
31:19
stuff. He's helican drops and he
31:21
thought that was a good band name.
31:22
So that's where it came. That's what origin of from.
31:26
Yeah and purple was a color that are Mo was a color.
31:31
That was really important at the beginning of the show because it
31:35
was a color for our director and producer Hers and Neal of Hope.
31:40
And this is the only time we really see anything kind of
31:42
beautiful, like we see normalcy and any kind of beauty.
31:45
And of course, look at Nico, I mean my gosh, what a talented
31:50
and just beautiful human being the career that she has going
31:54
forward. I mean, that the things she's
31:56
done paths are amazing guy just 30 years from now we're going to
31:59
be like Nico Parker, you know Cammy award-winning yes it's
32:03
absolutely and Bella my goodness but it was really important.
32:08
Press to get this necklace. We, it's a tooth that I don't
32:12
know, the actually, the back story on this necklace,
32:14
particularly the the shirt for sure, because that shirt was,
32:19
you know, we built it. So that was from scratch.
32:23
The graphic came from Naughty Dog and then we sort of made it.
32:29
We aged it down and made it look lived in for her and Niko's
32:32
tall, and lean. So, it was important for us to
32:35
get the right proportions, Etc. It's really interesting.
32:38
Testing how much actually goes into making a t-shirt, it can be
32:42
as it can be, as, you know, painstaking as making a period
32:46
piece to some degree, you know, and getting the right color, we
32:51
my daughter want to ask you about this because people think
32:54
costume, as I know, she's probably got the on Amazon.
32:56
Yeah. Not at all.
32:59
And, you know, to get, I mean, Craig was really specific even
33:02
about where the shoulder where the sleeves landed on her arm
33:06
the same as with As with Bella with her red t-shirt.
33:11
So it was they were really specific.
33:13
The neckline really reflects the game, the sort of way it fits,
33:17
both the game character and Nico the where it ends, you know,
33:22
with the waist of her jeans. I mean, everything was
33:25
everything, all the details were important where the graphic
33:28
ended around her hip there, it was all very important, we opted
33:33
to not use the shell, the second shell necklace that be Because
33:39
there's so much action for her and we just felt like it would
33:42
be competing with the neckline of the T-shirt too much and be
33:46
really awkward to watch. Thanks so much.
33:48
Yeah, yeah. So we just stuck with the little
33:51
I want to say. It's a shark tooth.
33:54
Yeah. And we made made the necklaces.
33:56
I just amazing Artisans working on the show, super lucky
34:01
supernovae. And I was so sad to see her go,
34:04
but I guess I had to happen. Let's take a Break from our
34:09
heroes and talk a little bit about the infected.
34:12
I've been dying to talk about this with you.
34:15
Yeah, it's all practical like we're talking about but there's
34:19
also lots of Prosthetics. So where those are your role
34:23
come in with infected just like the clicker at this point.
34:27
Yeah. So the clickers, the clickers
34:29
and the infected had the exact same process because so
34:35
basically each clicker, each infected person, I know it It
34:38
was a huge process had power time.
34:40
Dear, I mean, yeah, for fitting and weight.
34:43
Basically, we worked super close obviously with Barry, Gower, and
34:46
Company. Amazing.
34:48
Makeup effects team from everybody knows where they're
34:50
from like Game of Thrones, oh, yeah.
34:53
And also worked with Craig Mazin on Chernobyl.
34:56
So that's how that's the connection there.
34:59
But I mean, if you haven't seen the bloater yet, wait until you
35:03
see the bloater, and I hope they do sort of post, a lot of photos
35:06
of close-ups on that boat. Is the amount of detailed work
35:10
in these pieces is incredible. So, look at that guy.
35:15
Oh my gosh. And that's the fact that it's
35:19
practical and he had to move. Obviously, he had to, they all
35:22
had to crawl out of this pit, and then run and fight, and it's
35:27
all latex, it's all hand-painted, you can see the
35:32
fuzz the sort of remnants of hair and fuzz sort of on the top
35:37
at the end. End one thing that they did wind
35:39
up doing with the clickers and the bloater was they, glossed
35:43
them up quite a bit because with the lighting, which a lot of its
35:48
natural lighting because we're outside.
35:50
Yeah, you can see in the clicker that screaming at us in the
35:53
lower right hand corner. See the gloss on him and one of
35:56
the first when they first said they wanted put gloss on, you
35:59
know, as costume people were like because here we gonna do
36:05
but they mostly sort of stayed with the phone.
36:08
Olds. And I do hope these characters
36:10
travel because to be able to see them in real life, will just be
36:13
so magical for people. You can't see all the details
36:16
here, but you can see two somewhat where the prosthetic
36:23
ends and where the costume begins, and where the costume
36:26
begins is where all the hard work came in for my team.
36:30
So basically, we started with flesh tone compression, garments
36:34
for each character, top, and bottom.
36:36
And then we built on top of that, we sort of mapped out
36:39
where we thought the pieces of the cordyceps, mushroom would go
36:45
on the body as well as up into the neck and arms, and legs.
36:49
And then from there, we all went away.
36:51
And we started dying and make doing colors, because everybody
36:54
was a different color. And then we all came back with
36:57
some of these shelf mushrooms on and where the neck ended.
36:59
We put the whole head on if they had the neck or if they were
37:03
just infected and they had just pieces on and then some of it
37:06
was practical makeup. Then we put the costume on sort
37:10
of pull, all the pieces through the costume, and then start to
37:14
glue and marry the costume into the mushroom piece.
37:18
So it looked like the mushrooms are kind of like have eroded
37:21
have eroded through the fabric as it were and sort of grown
37:26
through it like plants. Do grow through Fabric and so
37:30
then it's glued at that point, then it becomes one piece.
37:33
One top one bottom, and then the head is separate.
37:37
And then After that, then the piece goes back to my breakdown
37:40
team who painstakingly paint the costume, especially around the
37:46
upper torso area and back and arms to sort of blend in with
37:50
the mushroom itself. The work that the makeup effects
37:53
team of done, right down to using all of these little
37:57
different products that look like sort of fermented bubbles,
38:03
like the better on the mushroom as it's sort of the acid, is
38:06
sort of burning its way through and Was there's little fuzz all
38:10
over the ends of these mushroom head so that had to be
38:12
incorporated into the costume as well and then faintly see it and
38:16
it's creepy. Every time you catch a glimpse
38:18
look like crazy, I mean the level of detail and then and
38:23
then after that it was you know we get to set it was super hard
38:27
to dress these guys because everything was one piece now and
38:31
everything is very form-fitted and strategically placed so that
38:34
they can run and crawl and fight and And in the game you sort of
38:40
see that they almost appear naked at some of the clickers
38:44
because the the fabric has just come away so much.
38:47
I'm obviously we couldn't do that because these people have
38:50
to, you know, act and do stunts in their costume.
38:53
But we tried to, we tried to get as close to that effect as
38:57
possible. Some have long sleeves because
38:59
the Prosthetics didn't go all the way down there.
39:01
Arm some had short sleeves we tried to also have color.
39:05
I think when you sort of break down the Scenes.
39:08
You can see that some are female, there's going to be a
39:11
real fun female clicker coming. I cannot wait for her.
39:16
Of course, we have the child clicker.
39:18
Oh my gosh, Cynthia Blue's. Clues sure.
39:21
I was real mad at you but I paused it and I was like wait
39:27
because 2003 like I'm a little bit older.
39:30
Yeah. But wasn't that many years ago
39:34
has come back around as well, you know, something ride too.
39:38
You know, repurpose, but our little clicker child Sky Newton,
39:43
who is a physical performance artist.
39:46
She's a contortionist, but she's also a real up-and-coming
39:48
gymnast. They flew her in and I am going
39:52
to post at some point when I can get it together, photos of her
39:56
eating, just amazing. Because she obviously had to
40:00
crawl through that vehicle wild and run and she had bare feet.
40:05
So we had to do the fake bare feet, which is For hard to do
40:08
and really hard to do on a nine-year-old, child.
40:11
But the Blues Clues was, I actually asked Craig because I
40:15
just wanted to make sure I was doing due diligence and there
40:18
wasn't a real backstory, like there was for the helican drops
40:21
shirt. But Craig just said he really
40:25
wanted it to be a parent that this infection could happen to
40:32
anybody. No one was exempt and that it
40:36
was and that it It was he wanted people to look like everyday
40:41
people like you and me like a kid that's into Blue's Clues,
40:45
you know, like a kid that's into something else.
40:48
And so Blue's, Clues just seems like it's such a great graphic
40:52
and we got use it. Oh yeah.
40:54
It was perfect. It was as beautiful as it was
40:57
creepy. I was like how much longer than
41:00
this episode because I'm scared now and also shout out to bury
41:07
gower's. He put very Gallery.
41:09
Yeah, Barry and Sarah Gower, who run?
41:12
I think that Garin company is their production, where are they
41:17
Game of Thrones? And the episode, I love called
41:20
hardhome. I haven't loved an episode of TV
41:23
so much since that episode and then I find out that they
41:26
basically worked on this episode suicide like okay I'm obsessed
41:29
they worked on the whole show. They were with us for the whole
41:32
14 months, both in London England and also in Calgary with
41:36
us they had a huge Huge team. And they also for this scene had
41:41
to bring makeup special effect makeup artist in from around the
41:45
world, because it to dress, one clicker takes to makeup effects.
41:49
People one makeup person and to costumers.
41:53
So, yeah. And just a little stat.
41:56
It says that there were 60 actors and 70% etic artist.
42:01
It's wild and then we would just, we had this, we had
42:05
amazing spaces. We were super fortunate.
42:08
Really supported by HBO on this budgetarily.
42:12
So we had like a huge huge warehouse space where they would
42:16
start at all hours in the night, to put these people into the
42:20
works for their Prosthetics and costumes.
42:22
And it was, it was really something.
42:26
Is there a role in a costume department where I just get to
42:29
sit in a corner and just watch you work for 18 months because I
42:33
would like to apply of? I mean, for sure, Yeah, for
42:39
sure. And I want a minimum wage,
42:41
that's why. I mean we could find work for
42:44
you to do and that's the fun part of it.
42:46
We had a lot of people because we were working so remotely and
42:49
we needed so many crew. We had a lot of people that were
42:52
pretty new and it was, you know, a super amazing opportunity for
42:56
people to learn the industry on. You know, such a huge one of
43:01
HBO's biggest projects ever certain for the year in which we
43:04
were doing it, okay, Cynthia? Pedro.
43:08
Pascal is perhaps one of the most famous people on this
43:11
planet right now and I would be remiss if I did not ask you what
43:15
it was like, collaborating with the data Lorien himself on the
43:19
show. I mean, he kills it as Joel, he
43:22
looks amazing. Everyone's obsessed with his
43:24
jackets. Like we talked about the
43:26
flannels, what was it? Like it was really great.
43:29
I, you know, I didn't get to meet him or even speak with him
43:32
until he arrived for his first fitting.
43:34
Oh wow. Yeah.
43:35
So he because he's so busy like Like this his moment it.
43:39
Well, that's been his moment for a while but now he's just like
43:42
everywhere. So and we, you know, it was a
43:45
long 14 months, he came in and my biggest, you know, as a
43:49
costume designer, you set the room up, you have all of your
43:52
options. We actually broke everything
43:55
down before the fittings as well, which is a little bit
43:58
backwards sometimes but we had we were able to do that.
44:01
So I really wanted him to be able to feel who the character
44:04
was the moment. He stepped into the fitting room
44:07
and He, you know, I'm getting ready.
44:11
I'm getting my Spiel in my head, you know, like trying to fight,
44:15
you know, as a designer. I think we often try to find one
44:18
something in common with the person we're going to be having
44:20
the fitting with. So, you know, to try and sort
44:22
of, you know, make it comfortable for everyone.
44:25
And for me often, it's my dog Rudy really great photo of him
44:30
holding Rudy and his first pair of.
44:31
Oh my gosh. Sure that's amazing photo.
44:34
Yeah. But so I'm already I've got it.
44:37
Tall, you know, and, you know, he's coming off.
44:39
It was this after right after the second season of Mandalorian
44:43
and also, you know, his amazing work in Game of Thrones and
44:45
everything else that he's done. So I was a little like, jeans
44:49
and t-shirt, some got my best feel going and he comes in fresh
44:53
off the plane, been on a long trip, he comes in and he's open
44:58
like you see him? Like he's not, you know, it's
45:01
hard to walk into something like a fitting with someone for the
45:05
first time you've not met and basically, to Jerry get naked
45:08
and put clothes on. So, you know, you want to create
45:11
some kind and he walked in like let's do it.
45:14
This is great. Oh yeah.
45:15
And we just, I kind of gave them the Spiel and I was like, so,
45:18
you know, it's not going to be as exciting as your last Amazing
45:22
Project Muse. Like, I am so down with wearing
45:26
clothes that are going to be comfortable, right?
45:30
I've never imagined the best garmr double, yeah, after ball.
45:33
So I'm sure this is great. Yeah, and get dirty and then I
45:37
don't have to wear a helmet. Emmett.
45:38
And I was like, oh, thank you, thank you.
45:41
So, it started off on a great flood and we I think we nailed
45:45
like his jeans. They were the either, the first
45:47
or second pair of he put on, because we have many different
45:49
options of everything. All the shirts, the jackets, the
45:53
jackets were a little bit of a journey, but he was just really
45:58
into it. He was chatty, he had a, he had
46:01
ideas, he knows what feels good on him and he, you know, he's a
46:04
pro. So, he knows what it's going to
46:06
take for him to be able to pull this.
46:08
Character off. And you know what else can you
46:11
ask for as a designer? That's right.
46:13
It's biggest gifted of all dream collaborator have a dream
46:18
collaboration. Yes.
46:20
Okay. Before we talk about test, I do
46:23
want to just give my condolences to the Friends fans and family
46:26
of Annie Wersching who brought test to life who just recently
46:29
passed away. I feel like this world would be
46:31
nothing without her contribution.
46:33
She was incredible with that. I'm excited to talk to you since
46:37
Via about Tess. I mean, we only had her for a
46:40
moment there, but her scenes were just so powerful.
46:44
And a tour of, is a force. Of course, she sure did leave a
46:50
mark, we see her her costumes are pretty functional.
46:54
I would say you could tell that she's, you know, been going
46:57
through this for a long time. She's not exactly.
47:00
I would say a fashion queen, he knows it.
47:03
That's not what's important to her.
47:04
So how would you describe her yet?
47:07
Totally that. And you know she's she well she
47:12
is Joel's partner in the story. She she is.
47:17
I think she feels the weight of the world and the weight of this
47:21
mission that sort of falls upon them.
47:23
Much much more than Jewel does Joel Joel.
47:27
Kind of takes it as like, no don't want to do this?
47:30
No, I want that car battery. He was the car battery.
47:34
Yeah, the car battery. She does too, but she's like, I
47:37
don't know. She's feel Like she's the
47:39
grown-up of the, two of them. In a sense, like she really
47:41
feels the weight of it. She feels the gravity of their
47:44
situation, obviously physically, she gets into scraps and she's
47:49
just like she's she's really a strong, strong woman and Anna
47:55
plays her so amazingly and yes she doesn't care about what she
47:59
looks like for function over everything is what's important
48:05
for her. We did also tried.
48:08
A massage to the look of the character in the game, but
48:12
bringing a little more color to. It's just so, it wasn't so
48:15
desaturating, so invisible. And obviously, we had to have
48:19
sleeves on her because she is a real live person, and she just
48:23
her character is so physical, and there was a lot of stunt
48:26
work for her, for her stunt double.
48:29
So, we just couldn't have a sleeveless shirt.
48:32
So we tried to do it with color and sort of shape and a really
48:37
loved. How it was not feminine and it
48:40
was not androgynous either. It was just functional.
48:44
It was a functional outfit. And the idea of the people in
48:48
the Boston qz as well. Or everywhere is also that you
48:51
gain pieces. Not like you go shopping, right?
48:56
You gain pieces from other people, one way or another, or
49:00
they're found pieces. So things, you know,
49:04
traditionally wouldn't fit that. Well, we do have a flashback
49:07
when See her Franken bills with Joel in early days and the
49:13
transformation. I'ma I'd almost forgot about
49:15
that bit because it was smaller but intrical, right seen.
49:18
But oh my gosh, so beautiful right now.
49:22
I could tell that she was really excited about that little
49:25
luncheon. There was the lunch was good and
49:27
it was better times and there was a softness about her that
49:30
you do not get at the first take of test at all.
49:35
She's just all business. She's Physically all business,
49:39
she's mentally all business. It's been hard for her life has
49:43
been hard for her and even her hair.
49:45
It's just I'm glad that it wasn't just a ponytail, you
49:48
know, hmm, which probably would have made more sense for all
49:51
everything she does. Her hair does reference the game
49:54
as well and I'm glad we went down that road and just kind of
49:57
was always sort of messy but wasn't it?
50:00
I didn't find it. Distracting it any kind of way
50:02
it was it just I think it went with everything and for a
50:06
character to carry scars on their Face for, you know, that
50:10
something that production usually tries to get away from
50:13
because it's hard to track hard to crack scars or cuts that are
50:18
healing within the story timeline and bruising and things
50:22
like that. But you know they were just note
50:24
this woman would be you know she gets beat up like let's see,
50:28
this is let's make it real, this is real.
50:30
So I really love that they went there with her and Anna just
50:35
embraced it then I really let I like the realness and
50:39
authenticity mean, obviously, this is fictional, but I mean in
50:43
that moment, when you're just watching 2qz scenes, they could
50:45
feel, you know, real life just seeing her.
50:48
No, totally, yeah, I really loved working with Anna.
50:51
It was yeah too bad. That her character's life was
50:55
short lived. I know Anna Torv deserves a lot
50:58
more rolls than we just say I cannot stop time at how amazing
51:05
Bella Ramsey is as Ellie. Obviously, she's a big part of
51:09
the show the game, she's just amazing.
51:11
And I'm just like, I hear two Emmy, nominations ringing in my
51:14
head at the moment. She always seems to have on
51:17
protective layers which I really appreciate.
51:20
But occasionally I noticed he work in Easter egg in every once
51:24
in a while like the palm tree shirt which I thought was
51:26
immediately recognizable. So what was it like working with
51:29
Bella on Ellie? You know, Bella has a joy to
51:33
work with and I had spoken to a another designer who was working
51:37
with her before we started just to sort of get sizes, as we
51:41
often do, were often looking for things like that and just to get
51:45
a sort of feel the temperature of, you know, what, Bella likes,
51:49
what's her? Because she's a young person.
51:52
She's 17 at the time I think. And I just wanted to, you know,
51:56
I want to dance. Get as much information as I
51:58
could. So I could go and smart.
52:01
And he just he just couldn't say enough about her and then she
52:06
came in this exact. She's she's a smart smart human
52:09
being. She's also very empathetic.
52:13
She is very invested in what she's doing as an actor and I
52:21
think that obviously shows in all of her work but maybe
52:23
especially here because she's embodying this character.
52:26
That's, you know, not wearing period clothing which she often
52:31
is. In Period shows a lot of
52:33
Thrones. Yeah, just playing an
52:37
All-American Girl and not in a non-traditional All American
52:43
way. Oh, she's had a lot to deal with
52:46
and a lot to sort of, you know, Embrace and overcome or, or
52:50
create with. And I think she did such an
52:52
amazing job and she's got these great.
52:55
Sense of comic timing as well. Both, she and Pedro do and I
53:00
think that's the chemistry with the two of them.
53:02
You know, they're really hard characters, both of them.
53:05
So it's really important to have that little bit of lightness on
53:09
the other side and she's always needling him.
53:12
Like, she's always trying to get a smirk, a smile approval, all
53:17
sorts of things from him. And so she's always got that,
53:19
like, little bit of a, you know, cheekiness about her.
53:22
And I think, I think she's created this really.
53:25
Incredibly well-balanced character.
53:27
I really do. Yeah.
53:29
I mean, she's incredible at this role.
53:32
I'm yeah, I'm so happy. Honestly, for Bella Ramsey.
53:35
This is just such a great role and you're right, like, the two
53:38
of them together. They are such a great pairing
53:41
and, you know, I want to say one is more valuable than other.
53:45
They just both bring so much energy to the show.
53:48
And you know, that's that's that's key.
53:52
Because, you know, the story really is about Two of them and
53:56
they and the power that they are the empowerment.
53:59
They give each other and how that makes them a successful
54:02
pair in their Journey as characters through this, through
54:06
this story. So I just, I think it's
54:09
brilliant casting and I'm just looking at this picture of the
54:13
two of them she and and Bella and Anna standing in the water.
54:17
That was an amazing day in the hotel lobby that actually,
54:22
that's real. That's of course, that's all
54:24
real everything on the show is really.
54:25
Real practical but that was real and that water was just awful
54:31
looking it was and I assume a costume.
54:34
Nightmare nightmare everything on this show.
54:37
Was that okay? Today they're going to be
54:39
waiting through this green slimy water.
54:41
You're just like, cool, and it's going to be our hero.
54:56
Or the scorching heat. It was just that was a
54:58
challenge. But oh man, well, done by
55:01
everyone. So when you have these shirts
55:03
like the palm tree shirt, is that something that any fall
55:07
closely and you obviously have those made, I assume.
55:10
Yeah. The palm tree shirt, we made.
55:13
We it also has a journey. So it starts off not as broken
55:18
down as you see from the game illustration here, but it gets
55:22
there and we actually did the long.
55:25
Sleeved gray undershirt, as well, like, we really wanted to
55:30
sort of hit this one on the head as best as we could as far as
55:34
being the same as the game because it was so iconic.
55:37
And she gains the shirt at a pivotal moment when their bill
55:41
and Frank's, you know, and they have a shower or he has she has
55:44
a shower actually. So I mean, it's the first time
55:46
they've been able to get clean a different change of clothes
55:49
since they've been on the run. It's and I guess I can say at
55:52
the end of Bill and Frank and so this sort of true The trajectory
55:56
for these two characters from that point is really important
55:58
portent. And so it was the perfect place
56:01
for this t-shirt. So it's as direct from the game.
56:05
I mean, we agonized over that, that son, studying, son, you
56:10
can't even believe how hard it was, to get the graphic, exactly
56:13
how we needed it. We also had to cheat it a little
56:15
because on the upper her left hand side of the sun, there's a
56:21
couple of Seagulls And I think there's three, theres two or
56:24
three. But the way it sits in the game,
56:27
you can actually see it in the game photo.
56:29
It's everything is off a little skews, a little to her left.
56:34
And so then there's a bit of a space over on her right chest
56:37
side and when you look at something for a long time on
56:40
camera and it's not centered, it becomes really distracting.
56:45
It almost becomes like a mistake or did they get that?
56:48
So you never want that. So we cheated a little bit more
56:52
centered on Bella, so that we didn't have That you know, issue
56:57
of People wondering if we made a mistake by having it off to the
57:00
side a little bit. And I think that means that
57:03
can't really see it. Yeah, it's good.
57:05
You guys are so yeah, like feel like the seagulls are still
57:09
there. I just remember there were
57:10
getting really close to her armpits, so we weren't sure we
57:12
were going to be able to save the seagulls, but they were
57:15
important. So I'm pretty sure they're
57:17
there. Yeah, I think I know you're
57:18
talking about. It's also dark on my screen some
57:21
together. Yeah.
57:24
So an episode. Four and five, we got to meet
57:27
Henry and salmon for the game players.
57:29
I think there are certainly a little bit of a nervous energy
57:31
heading into this episode because we kind of knew what was
57:34
coming. But again, I really love the way
57:37
that, you know, to show in a game have had slightly different
57:40
versions of things. I think it's exciting.
57:43
But again, so beautifully done, I actually feel like, in this
57:47
case, I really, like what you did with the show, because I
57:49
felt like in terms of the game, these two characters weren't as
57:53
flushed out as well as I would say.
57:55
Of the other characters. So I appreciate what you did
57:58
with the costumes. You gave them so much more life
58:01
and the colors. I mean there's a lot of fire and
58:04
one of these two episodes. So I love the glow of their
58:07
colors against the fire and also the, you know, the face paint.
58:12
I thought was great. It's brilliant.
58:15
Yeah, and this was again, you know, a point that Craig Mazin
58:19
kept making as he doesn't, he didn't want to lose people in a
58:23
colorless. When he wanted to make sure that
58:26
there was color in the wardrobe and you can see from the game in
58:30
particular, these two characters were drawn very monochromatic
58:35
and pale, right? You know, and we're in winter,
58:38
in our story, much more than I think it was in the game, not
58:40
100% on that, but we were also in winter.
58:43
So, you know, had to keep our actress somewhat warm and they
58:46
need to look like they fit in the environment that they were
58:49
in. So, that gave us license to add
58:51
jackets and shirts, and they actually both have Two layers
58:57
on. Yeah, two layers on it.
59:00
Yeah, and I love their jackets because they they're little bit
59:03
retro. Feeling which is which is its
59:06
kind of fun and gives us again that sort of suspended time
59:12
frame. You know that sense of suspended
59:14
time that we're hopefully living in even though we know it's
59:17
2023. It's kind of cool to mentioned
59:19
some of the background characters in the Kansas City
59:22
scenes as well. Like had like a little bit of
59:24
80s Vibe too. Um, of their costumes.
59:26
So yeah. And there's a word like he needs
59:28
80s like Eastern European even sort of vibe.
59:32
Like there was so much, there is so much fun stuff.
59:34
We had one guy in a t-shirt from the prosperous Sopranos and they
59:39
had this sort of tracksuit like 80s sort of track suit black and
59:43
he totally look like a mobster, duh things like that.
59:49
That kind of, you know, didn't jump out at us, but definitely
59:52
made some impact if you happen to see them when you're panning
59:54
through the crowd, and This is real cool, sort of way, but I
59:57
digress. These two are amazing and Kevon
1:00:01
Woodard. What an amazing young man.
1:00:04
They scoured all of America for this.
1:00:08
This guy, they really did for this child because he is a deaf
1:00:11
actor in real life, and it was his first job.
1:00:16
Wow. Wow, that's amazing.
1:00:19
Harry, that's crazy. I mean, because the acting is so
1:00:22
Master Class. Yeah.
1:00:25
And he just they I know Craig was looking for a deaf actor to
1:00:31
play this role because the character is and he wanted to be
1:00:34
genuine. He also wanted to represent the
1:00:39
demographic or the community so he wanted to make sure that our
1:00:44
actor did like American slang and in specific African American
1:00:49
slang. Well, because that's who this
1:00:53
character is. He wanted to?
1:00:54
He wanted to make sure that it Specific almost like specific
1:00:57
regionally because like sign language is different in a lot
1:01:00
of places. So so yeah.
1:01:03
So we got Kevon what a great guy and Lamar to, I mean that one
1:01:08
scene. Yeah, I'm like, do you talk
1:01:10
about Cynthia that was scarred and adjust the Heartbreak just
1:01:18
oh boy, even though you know it's coming, it still doesn't
1:01:22
feel any better when it actually happens.
1:01:24
No entity. Be honest.
1:01:26
I actually because they showed somewhere side by side of the
1:01:31
scene from the game and a real life and I like the way that we
1:01:35
played it out Gianna. Yeah I mean it's no contest for
1:01:39
me. Much love for the game but still
1:01:42
oh absolutely. But here's here's a perfect
1:01:45
example of you know. Now we have an opportunity to
1:01:49
make it a little bit more just like went back and redid the
1:01:52
game they redid season one. Of the game just you know let's
1:01:57
freshen it up and give it just a little bit more.
1:01:59
We have the opportunity to do that and still saying the same
1:02:02
thing. Almost exactly but the sort of
1:02:06
mood changed a little and the the I don't know it was it was a
1:02:10
greater moment for Joel. Even I think in that interact
1:02:13
with the two of them. Yeah I want to end with talking
1:02:17
about you text me to you said look out for episode 3.
1:02:21
It's my favorite and I was like okay Cynthia watched it and I My
1:02:25
life was I think like most people my life felt changed
1:02:28
after watching this episode it was brilliant.
1:02:31
Of course we're talking about long long time which features
1:02:35
Bill and Frank I love this episode.
1:02:39
I'm actually kind of nervous to talk about because I feel like
1:02:41
every time I talk about, I start crying.
1:02:43
So I'm not going to tell me about dressing Bill and Frank.
1:02:48
So Bill in the game is a pretty fleshed-out character and he's
1:02:53
very kind of militant looking because, you know, he's a bunker
1:02:56
guy. He's like, you know, he's
1:02:59
everybody left, the town or was taken away from his town.
1:03:02
It's this beautiful little New England town, and he stayed and
1:03:05
he's made it his own. He's a survivalist.
1:03:07
So that needed to be reflected in his clothing and I think that
1:03:13
we wanted to be, we wanted to honor the game out of the game
1:03:18
look, but we also didn't want him to be too militant looking.
1:03:22
I mean, when we go down into his bunker, we see all of everything
1:03:24
on the wall, all the like, Armament he has on the wall.
1:03:27
It's really kind of crazy in the TVs and the whole thing.
1:03:30
And so we decided to sort of give that sort of militant look
1:03:34
over to set deck and as the person, Of course he carries a
1:03:38
gun and he's got his Bandolero with all the bullets and things
1:03:40
like that. But it gave us a place to where
1:03:44
he didn't start like so military looking and then to sort of get
1:03:47
softened and sort of a little more approachable looking.
1:03:53
Of course, being influenced by Frank.
1:03:55
We just wanted, we didn't want to have to start like way up
1:03:57
here and have to go, you know, end up down here.
1:03:59
So we kind of made him a little more utilitarian and I guess in
1:04:05
a way as opposed to militant, Um and then of course, Frank shows
1:04:11
up and Marie Bartlett. What a Dreamboat to work with,
1:04:17
right? Yeah, he came in and you know, a
1:04:22
lot of his fitting was done in a wheelchair because he winds up
1:04:26
in a wheelchair and wow. And so we actually had one so we
1:04:29
could never heard of that before.
1:04:31
I have to say, yeah, how are things going to sit?
1:04:34
How are we needed to be able to show that his body?
1:04:37
D was falling apart and, you know, he was becoming thinner
1:04:40
with his element and he was becoming more frail and the sort
1:04:45
of shake we need to be able to show.
1:04:47
So we, you know, we went with larger pieces of clothing,
1:04:50
that's one easy way to sort of make someone look smaller and
1:04:54
then when but sitting in a chair we wanted to make sure like his
1:04:57
his knees kind of sort of, not protruded, but sort of they were
1:05:01
more accentuated by his clothing and he probably would be wearing
1:05:05
sweatpants or something soft, because it's hard for him.
1:05:07
Dressed no, zippers all that kind of thing.
1:05:10
And the collar of his shirt is you see in this looks larger to
1:05:13
sort of show that maybe he's lost a lot of weight.
1:05:16
Of course, makeup helped a lot but just what an amazing again,
1:05:22
love story and I think that we shot all of our episodes out of
1:05:27
order as well. So we actually started in
1:05:30
Boston. I can't remember when we shot
1:05:33
this one. Was shot.
1:05:34
Five at the very end, but in any case, so, You don't really know
1:05:38
where everything's going to land went out when the seasons put
1:05:40
together in its finality. You have a good idea but they
1:05:43
may move some stories around a little bit.
1:05:46
So I think that putting this story in episode 3 after you
1:05:51
know going through 20 years of starting off in Austin, Texas,
1:05:55
and then winding up in, you know, the Boston and everything
1:05:59
that has happened and everything's falling apart.
1:06:01
And there's we know that there's these clickers.
1:06:03
We know there's this to stop for a minute.
1:06:06
And see what one couple how they've survived this pandemic
1:06:11
and where they've landed up in the world.
1:06:13
I'm not going to make you cry green flannel and I mean I mean,
1:06:25
come on Craig Mazin and his writing team are just Geniuses.
1:06:28
I the placement of this episode couldn't have been better.
1:06:32
I honestly can't say enough good things about this.
1:06:35
And then finally Justin, let's put this to rest.
1:06:39
I got so many questions about the fact that the flannel
1:06:43
someone on Tick Tock at good old.
1:06:46
Terra firma says in all caps. Please ask if Joel is wearing
1:06:51
Frank shirt at the end of the episode 3 was unintentional.
1:06:54
Yes and yes, yeah, no. Definitely it also a Beat from
1:07:02
Craig just like, just like the Blue's Clues and Just like some
1:07:06
other things that you'll see in this because Frank and Joel
1:07:11
weren't friendly in in Flight. In fact, he just met Frank when
1:07:16
he got, he knew bill. So that's how he meets Frank and
1:07:19
Frank standing in. Joel doesn't trust anybody and
1:07:21
rightly. So, but I think it showed the
1:07:26
humanity within Joel to make the choice of honoring, Frank and
1:07:31
Bill, by wearing this flannel shirt, that was the final thing
1:07:35
that he Franken. And if you know I think that was
1:07:40
the that was the motivation of him wearing this shirt.
1:07:44
It's Cynthia, it's beautiful. I love it.
1:07:48
Try not to cry. Yeah, it was really beautiful.
1:07:50
Yeah, Cynthia I really truly love your costumes on the show.
1:07:55
I think it's genius and you know video game adaptations.
1:07:59
Don't always go well as just kind of the thing and I really
1:08:03
feel like this is the first time I feel like I watched a video
1:08:07
game adaptation. Like there is hope for video
1:08:09
game adaptations. I just think such a brilliant
1:08:12
job and I just want to ask you, you know, what did this project
1:08:15
mean to you? I it's so exciting.
1:08:18
Yeah, you know, I think, I think when we all start a project, we
1:08:23
have purse, you know, perceived notion of what it's going to be,
1:08:27
how it's going to turn out often.
1:08:29
It doesn't or it segues in a different direction and I think
1:08:34
that until we were done, Until there was, I had some space from
1:08:38
it like a month away from production and started to
1:08:42
actually see what the, what, what the scenes were starting to
1:08:47
look like as a whole, with the music with the everything
1:08:49
altogether. I really had a new appreciation
1:08:53
for beauty and simplicity. Well, and how all the
1:08:58
Departments, all of the Department's, just sort of, you
1:09:02
can see how we all work together and just the beauty of it all.
1:09:05
And And the adaptation I think is brilliant.
1:09:08
Obviously, it's doing so well, but I just I'm very proud of it.
1:09:12
I'm very proud of it. And I was a little bit surprised
1:09:15
because like I said earlier, you know, it's this show is not
1:09:19
really about the costume as a standalone feature in any kind
1:09:24
of way. It was more about collaboration
1:09:26
and creating this beautiful world so we can watch the story
1:09:30
and not necessary. I mean you're Blown Away by the
1:09:31
scenery and by the sets and maybe by the costumes but It's
1:09:36
really about the whole effect. And that's I'm very proud of
1:09:41
this production for that. I really, really am.
1:09:43
And I that's right from the storytelling right from the top
1:09:46
on down and everyone in between it just it's it's beautiful.
1:09:51
I mean it's really beautiful. Hmm.
1:09:53
Yeah. As an audience member I have to
1:09:54
say like the thing I appreciate about the most, you know, you
1:09:57
kind of touched on earlier the humanity of it, just the
1:10:00
practicality of it. It just you know, makes you
1:10:02
excited about TV, film, knowing that all this This is, you know,
1:10:06
practical makeup. It's not obvious effects.
1:10:10
It's real sets, real people, real actors, deaf actors.
1:10:14
It's incredible. And just makes you excited just
1:10:17
about the industry as a whole, and you're part of that your
1:10:20
team's apart of that. So I just have to say, I think,
1:10:25
what you've done with the show is amazing.
1:10:27
I'm so personally happy for you and your team I just could talk
1:10:32
about this forever. I'm so excited and I just, I
1:10:35
really hope. This train keeps going.
1:10:37
I hope you get the continue with them because I just want to keep
1:10:40
talking about this until The Bitter End.
1:10:43
So yes, I do too. I think it's going to be.
1:10:46
I mean, I Craig Mazin did say somewhere in the press that
1:10:52
there and there is a season 2 was announced but that there
1:10:55
wouldn't be Pat anything past season 2 of course that anything
1:10:58
can ever always change. But for him, the story ends
1:11:01
there and he's a firm believer in not beating a dead horse, you
1:11:05
know, he He's a firm believer in this is the story, let's not
1:11:10
milk it and and let's leave it as this beautiful piece of film
1:11:15
art and have people because it will be accessible to go back
1:11:19
and re-watch Andre watch and re-watch.
1:11:21
She like, oh, what's I'm already doing.
1:11:23
So on a weekly basis, Cynthia, Summers, I am so happy.
1:11:27
You got to join. I'm so happy for you.
1:11:29
Please come back, anytime. You have something.
1:11:32
Coming out. I just love talking to you.
1:11:34
Thank you. I love talking to you as well.
1:11:36
I'm glad. We did this and yeah maybe we
1:11:38
should talk again at the end. Yeah.
1:11:40
I mean honestly I still have like 20 more questions.
1:11:44
So yeah a couple more weeks does, I'll text you.
1:11:48
Let's do it. Let's do it.
1:11:53
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