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SMNTY Classics: SMNTY Works From Home · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Smith. I'm welcome to stuff
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: I've never told you protection of I hire radio and
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: recently for reasons that we will explain at a later date.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: That sounds so mysterious, it really isn't. But things are
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: going on, but things are happening, and just spent to
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: the world. Uh. I had to go through all of
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: our episode catalog recently and I had to kind of
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: flag like, oh, this is probably outdated. Uh. And they
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: were a bunch from the pandemic that I was like
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: early pandemic days. But I thought, you know, this could
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: be funny to listen to maybe or maybe very depressing,
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: or maybe a mixture of both before we really knew
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: what was going to happen, you know, like when we
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: were trying to predict things. Uh, and early on in
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: the pandemic, I would say we kind of settled in
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: at this point, but we still weren't sure how long
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: it was going to go. We did one on working
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: from home during the pandemic, and I wanted to bring
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: this one back because of a couple of reasons. UM,
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: I've seen a lot of articles lately around updating on
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: women's experience working from home, and we actually have a
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: whole Monday many I think that's going to come out
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: about this, but a lot of women have reported, especially
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: women in relationships HEATERO, relationships with children, that they're being
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: treated as if you can work whenever, So I want
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: to go get drinks and you're going to take the kids,
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: and you can work while you're doing that, right, Like
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: the kind of this idea, which was the fear we
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: had when we were talking about like the pros and
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: cons of working from home, is that that that might
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: happen um. And then also, and I know this sounds
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: like it's unrelated, but I swear it's not. Recently, both
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: Smith and I have watched the movie barbarian Um, and
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: one of the things that really struck me about that
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: movie is when she's the main character, is talking to
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: the Scars guard guy who may or may not be
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: the villain Um, and she says to him like, if
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: if I had gotten here first at this airbnb, I
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: would never have let you in. Never, And he kind
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: of lets her in and she she's like, no, no, no,
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: I would never would have done that. And I was
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: thinking about that recently because I've had a couple of
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: experiences like that word. It just becomes clear the gender
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: divide around safety in in that regard um where men,
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: some men in my life have just clearly not thought
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: about it. And I just think there's an interesting conversation
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: we can have about where these where we're missing the
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: conversation we should be having, or we're not like listening
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: to women when we're they're saying, like, no, I can't
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: just work whenever and take the kids whenever, Like it's
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: not just a thing that I can do super easily.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: And also you can't just because I'm working from home
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: doesn't mean you can just show up whenever. I like.
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: So that episode is coming, but in the meantime, please
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: enjoy this classic episode which might be a little dated,
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: but I think still we're listening to, Hey, this is
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: Annie and Samantha, and welcome to stuff I've never told
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: you a production of I Heart Radio. So, Samantha, what's
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: your favorite thing about working remotely? Um? Not having to
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: wear our bra mhmm, some faces. See, there's so many, honestly,
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: so many things. Being able to wait to the last
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: minute to make your face known instead of coming in
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: and talking to everybody, you know what I mean, And
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: like having the conversation of like seeing people passing by,
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: people having the moment of you know, all these things,
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: so you have to get ready and all this FaceTime
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: with people essentially have face to FaceTime and then start working.
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: As when we're doing it remotely, I'm like barely sitting
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: at the computer, like all r, let let's get started.
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: I love that. It sounds like water cooler talk is
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: your nightmare. Well, to me, this is like the introverted dream,
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: Like this is an introverse dream, especially because these are
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: people you work with and not necessarily choose to hang with.
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: Not that our people aren't a cool A lot of
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: people aren't. To put that out there, people are super cool.
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: I will, but it's still hard when you're in like
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: that work environment, work mentality. So kind of not having
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: to worry about that has been really nice. What about you,
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: I definitely am with you on the clothes thing. I
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: barely put on like real clothes anymore. Uh. And I
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: think the second thing is um working on my own
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: kind of weird schedule and not feeling bad about that,
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: and then also having usually a horror movie on in
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: the background, uh, and not feeling bad that like someone's
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: going to look over my shoulder and be like, hey,
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: you're not working, you're watching bad horror movies. I am.
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: I'm doing both. I'm a multitasker. I like to have
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: noise in the background as well, so if it's a
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: show that I'm rerunning, or if it's like loud music
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: or something, it's really nice to have that too and
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: not worrying about people judging my taste. Yes, and I
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: will say we come from a very like flexible Even
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: before this, when you had to go into the office,
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: it was a very flexible schedule and a lot of
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: people did watch stuff on the computer while they were working.
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: It's a very low key office. But my my anxiety
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: was that people were judging me for what I was watching,
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: so I didn't do it right. Yeah, you also had
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: like the facing like everybody walked by you computer and yeah, yeah,
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: I was very mad when they moved there. Yes, you
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: were out of your corner um. But yeah, I will
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: say for our office is eerily quiet, like everybody so
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: in their zone and such great workers, that's what it
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: really means. But it's they're so silent you walk in
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: and a small sound everybody knows. So it was definitely
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: kind of erie as well as Yeah, I was overly
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: conscious of being super quiet and I'm not a quiet person. Yeah,
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: and that's actually a good point. I want to get
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: back to you for this episode because today we're talking
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: about remote work and what that looks like for women particularly.
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: And this was a listener request from Julia, So thank you, Julia, Yeah,
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: thank you Julia. Yeah. And she was specifically saying, like,
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: when it comes to things that women often face in
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: the office, like sexual harassment, being judged by looks fashion,
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: how remote work might remove those things are less than
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: those things having to deal with those things. And um,
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: when we look at COVID nineteen, it has changed how
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: a lot of us work. Yes, I am coming to
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: you from my cousplay studio. Still, in a very short
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: amount of time, companies had to pivot to one or
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: nearly one remote work or a lot of companies did
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: not all of them. I think we did it. Our
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: office did it in a matter of days. It was fast. Um.
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: Even the Trump White House recommended that people work from
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: home quote whenever possible. However, many many companies resisted this,
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: as did several government agencies. For example, one CEO even
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: message employees we are collectively more productive working in our
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: corporate off This is and another said if we wish
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: to maintain our productivity, we need to continue working in
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: these offices. It is soul stealing and abilitating to embrace
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: the notion of social distancing and economic hiber nation. Now,
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: to be fair to this guy, he did later reverse
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: his statement, but he put that down in texts in
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: it to employees. Yeah, and I have friends. I have
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: friends who have received similar messages from bosses, and some
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: of them, like around this time, are having to go
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: back into work, right, even though clearly things are not
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: under control. Right. I've talked to old coworkers of mine
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: who are in the State Agency, and they a lot
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: of them that because it is a face to face job,
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: you have to see people, you have to see because
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: you have to see parents, you have to make visits. UM,
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: it was really difficult for the transition, and everything went
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: to telecommunications so zoom meetings and by away, surprise, surprise,
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: the State Agency doesn't have a lot of money and
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: doesn't have much invested in things like that, in equipment
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: like that. UM, even though it had actually been talked
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: about previously that why can't we just do this because
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: people were traveling so much that a big part of
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: the budget was being taken out for travel reimbursement, which
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: I know we're gonna talk a little bit more about later,
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: but it is it's kind of interesting to see how
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: they all kind of had to quickly change and what
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: is needed, what isn't needed, and then how so having
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: to backtrack and realize maybe part of this is because
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: they're trying to maintain control over their workers because they
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: didn't trust their productivity. Yeah, which is the whole thing. Yes, yes,
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: And that comes up a lot in this of this.
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: I believe that people are just shirking. I'm so ready
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: to shirk off their responsibilities and do less work, and
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: that is not the case. And we have some numbers
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: on that later for you. In this, so many remote
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: work policies implemented in the pandemics wake we're confusing, or
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: workers were afraid to use them, much like myself. Um,
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: some required managerial approval, meaning that it wasn't uniform. Even
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: this week, the boss over at Netflix said he saw
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: only negatives of working from home, which I'm really surprised by.
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: Remote work is often framed in direct opposition of collaborative
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: open space work, particularly in the text sector, and we've
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: kind of talked about open Works Force and all of
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: that because I'm like, what is this. Yeah, I know
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: I've said it before on this show, but one of
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: the first, like when we moved to our open space office,
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: one of the first meetings we had in there turned
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: into a two hour session of people complaining about how
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: they Okay, I'm telling you kind of like because I
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: came from a very individualistic case management type of world
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: and coming to that, I was like, what's happening? What
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: is happening? So yes, I was definitely one of those
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: I was confused. But all of this is complicated. Some
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: companies cannot close like we just said, or they'll go under,
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: but stayed open puts worker, as we know, at risk.
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: A lot of the bosses making these decisions have the
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: option to work from home while asking their employees to
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: go in. If we had a government safety net, we
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: might be having a different conversation. Yeah. Yeah, And again
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: with all of the issues of access, not everyone has
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: the internet or even fast enough internet or laptops, and
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: not all companies are providing these things, even if they're
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: asking their employees to work from home, so that is
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: an issue as well. Other companies are reevaluating remote work policies,
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: and I know we've had conversations among our co workers
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: if we're ever going to truly go back to the
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: office like we used to. It definitely feels like this
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: has changed how we work, and it will. It's a
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: change that's here to stay. I personally think it's going
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: to be more remote work. Maybe you have to come
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: in for in our case, like one to two days,
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: and we'll have not the big office space we have.
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: I think that's going away, right um, and big companies
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: like Facebook and Twitter have announced they're making remote work
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: permanent after this, right that smart? Mm hmm. Now, No,
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: before we get into this, there isn't a lot in
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: the way of data when it comes to remote working,
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: though more and more is starting to be collected. However,
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: my own personal caveat, I think that we can't necessarily
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: extrapolate too much out of the data being collected. Now
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: we can, but we just have to always have that
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: aspects of like it is a unique stressful time. It
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: is a pandemic, right, so numbers are changing, right, How
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: does it look outside of a pandemic right. And on
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: top of that, a lot of us are seeing our
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: coworkers in their home environments for the first time, which
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: is sometimes really funny, sometimes really embarrassing. UM. And some
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: speculate that this will encourage manages to be more flexible
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: post pandemic with remote options and schedules. Others think that
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: unless what culture changes, people who use work from home
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: policies to work late and get work done will be rewarded,
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: while others will use it for family reasons, mostly women,
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: who will be penalized. Right. And this is called the
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: ideal worker norm. And this is a worker who comes
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: in early, stays late, and never has to leave for
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: family reasons or any reason really and therefore is a
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: better worker and treats the job more seriously, which also
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: ties into the face time bias, which is going to
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: come up a lot in this UM. So yeah, there,
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: there's some people speculate unless we change that whole idea,
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: then even this kind of equalizing remote work time is
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: not gonna it's still going to carry over, right, which
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: is a very u s idea like that when you
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: hit that in there, that this whole not taking time
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: off of work, not having vacations and running yourself into
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: the ground. Definitely, this whole bootstrapping, this is how we
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: do it, is how you do it. You sacrifice everything
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: for your job, which is a whole other conversation. But
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: all of this has sparked conversations around work culture, whether
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: it's outdated, who business, who benefits from it, and how
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: we can make it better. So we're going to get
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: into some basics. Yes, so when we say remote work
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: also telework or tele commuting, what we mean is the
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: ability to accomplish work outside of an office. Most of
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: the very first work from home options offered in the
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: United States in the ninety nineties were part of women's initiatives,
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: only available to women because it was assumed men didn't
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: need them or want them because they weren't involved in caregiving.
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: And because of this, these options soon earned the nickname
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: the mommy track. However, these programs were so rarely used
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: for fear of panormalization, some HR professionals called them ghost benefits.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: A new study out of m I T found that
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: since the pandemic, about half of Americans who are employed
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: before the pandemic are now working remotely. Compare that too
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: before the pandemic, when only seven percent of Americans had
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: access to flexible schedules and work from home policies, according
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: to the U. S. Bureau of Labor. Perhaps because of
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: a history of articles out there claiming that working from
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: home will lead to once again a decrease in job
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: performance and effectiveness, companies have been very resistant to moving
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: to remote work or allowing for more flexible schedules. But
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: that is changing thanks to quarantine as many of them
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: are forced to adjust and their employees along with them.
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: And those beliefs about a reduction in productivity from remote
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: workers are actually not true, which I feel like it's
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: not a big surprise, but a twenty fourteen study found
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: that working from home actually increased productivity and saved companies
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: surprise money. Of course, the caveat with the study is
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: it surveyed the sector that could easily work from home,
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: and it was a self selected group, So remember that
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: when you work thinking at all these good things, right,
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: But other studies have found similar things. They found that
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: remote work options not only increased productivity, but also increased satisfaction,
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: employee satisfaction, engagement, and retention while decreasing stress. Remote workers
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: often work harder and for longer giving time without pay,
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: which is not good actually, but it shows how incorrect
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: the reigning assumption is. And I actually wonder because that
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: is the assumption that you're working less, that you work
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: more to prove that it's not true, that you're you're
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: definitely getting your work done, and actually I'm doing even more,
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: see right, And it's exactly I know. This has been
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: a conversation for many of us who may have had
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: flexible schedules previously because we had to be the the
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: keepers and may being able to prove that people can
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: do this, and so I would be more likely to
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: answer emails so much faster if I was at home
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: then I would if I was at the work space,
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm here, you got right here, that's all.
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: You get it right, right, right, right, which was not
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: necessarily the best attitude. But yeah, if I was at
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: home and I was given that option, or if I
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: were able to do something else, I was quickly on it.
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: I made sure to be more attentive, so you did
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: not have any questions about whether or not I'm working
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: or being productive. Yeah, and this goes back to what
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: I actually wanted to bring up about how you said
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: everyone in our office is so quiet, and at least
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: in my case and I and most of my team
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: members case, there's you know, we're working in audio. There's
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: part that's part of it. But also there was just
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: this idea that if I can get my work done
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: as quickly as possible, I can go home and be
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: done with work. Right. So the work day at this
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: clear separation, whereas now for remote work, I do feel
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: like I'm working more and it's kind of surprised me.
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: There's not the clear like, oh, I'm going home, I'm
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: done with work now, it's it's work question shrug emoji. Right. Um,
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: so I do like I am putting in more time. Right. Oh.
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: And another study found that children with mothers who had
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: access to flexible work options slept more so, which is awesome,
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: which is something to think on, except for the fact
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: that I have been reading as school is back in
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: and people are doing remote learning that the school time
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: still starts. An that's kind of shocking. Oh no, yeah, yeah,
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: so as before when it was summertime, I think that
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: changed a little bit, but now that school started, it's
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: almost like okay. For the mothers or fathers who are
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: working at home, they don't actually start till eight thirty
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: nine o'clock, but now because schools back in, school starts
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: even earlier for a lot of them, so they kind
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: of lose out now. But that's a whole of the conversation.
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: So employees have also reported feeling their work is more
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: innovative when telework options are available, which I'm trying to
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: see if that's true for me um, and that they
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: felt more informed, both which were frequently side concerns of
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: remote work, right, that it would be less innovative and
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: they would feel employees would feel les informed, but actually
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: the opposite is true. Now, this was a specific study
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: to Australia, so just put that out there, right, And
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: that's just a taste of some of the potential positives
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: of remote work and we'll get into more. But first
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: we're gonna pause for a quick break for a word
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: from our sponsor, and we're back. Thank you sponsored. All right,
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: So now we kind of want to talk about the
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: pros because we've already talked a little bit about the positive.
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: So what are these pros? So lately we've seen more
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: and more stories about the benefits of remote work flexibility,
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: time and money saving, and one found study that here
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: in Atlanta, people who are full time office workers say
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: five on commuting costs a year when they started remote working,
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: which is significant for us. And in New York, eliminating
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: commutes say full time employees an average of three hundred
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: and forty three hours a year. Wow, which is about
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: two weeks. Yeah. When Yeah, which is about two weeks.
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: But like such, so been so beneficial. The communal loan
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: just kind of zapps people from their Yeah. So it's
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: better for the environment and minimizing FaceTime, Yes, and the
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: biases that often come with it. And we've heard about
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: the benefits, especially for women, and especially when it comes
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: to childcare and things like breastfeeding or providing care in general,
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: not to mention the benefits for people who can't go
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: into the offices for whatever reason or having difficulty doing so. Yes,
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: And we have talked on this show so many times
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: about how women are penalized for having children or even
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: the assumed potential to have children, not getting jobs, not
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: getting promoted, losing jobs, losing promotion stions. We talked about
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: this recently in our animal care episode. Working from home
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: can help in those areas. Not only that a lot
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: of mothers report a guilt factor of not having a
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: flexible schedule, and work from home policies could ameliorate that
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: as well. Research from Pew found that fifty one percent
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: of working mothers said having a family made career advancement difficult,
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: while only six percent of working fathers said the same thing.
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: Forty percent of mothers took reduced hours to support their families,
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: compared to only twenty eight percent of fathers, and that
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: is a huge difference. YEAH University of Wisconsin Milwaukee study
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: found one third of women in tech left their jobs
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: due to lack of work life balance. In a seventeen
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: study out of the UK, seventy percent of women cited
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: remote working options as vital if companies wanted to keep
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: them as employees for the long term. Right and another
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: recent survey found that while women are more likely to
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: request the option to work from home stent of women
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: compared to the three set of men, they're less likely
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: to get it. Of female respondents reported quitting their job
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: because that option wasn't offered. Another report found that women
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: who work from home are twice as likely to feel
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: comfortable going to h R compared to in office women
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: in sixty seven percent of women who work from home
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: field that HR understands their needs compared to in office women,
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: which makes me wonder. That kind of surprised me too.
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: That makes me wonder if the office culture really is
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: just such a masculinized space that you feel less comfortable. Well,
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: and I know, I know for me, sometimes it's just
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: easier to being able to write things to people and
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: not have to sit there and explain. That can be
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: more succinct, and that can be more professional without them
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: assuming on being emotional or you know, just I would
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: think any of those things maybe a little better, and
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: especially if you have evidence like these are the things
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: I'm talking about that's true, you know, so that could
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: be a whole big thing. Uh. That same report found
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: that in twenty nineteen, fifty seven percent of women who
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: worked remotely we did the promotion in that year, compared
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: to thirty in office women and fifty one of male
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: remote workers, which is interesting numbers. Yes. And on the
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: other side of the coin, if you look at remote
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: work companies, that is, companies that specialize in remote work,
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: of presidents, founders and CEOs are women of those companies.
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: Another study found that eight of the dreaded millennials reported
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: work life balance was important to them, and eight five
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: percent wanted to remote work one percent of the time.
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: Seventeen survey of four hundred millennial women found that eighty
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: three percent of them wanted to start their own businesses
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: and also put family first. They wanted both of those
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: things right. Other studies have had that video conferencing can
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: help equalize in terms of appearance. While science indicates taller,
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: louder people typically men get more attention of meetings when
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: we're all reduced to a small square. Even if that
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: which is yea often did that so we can little
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: slat or just text, you know, but lessons that advantage yeah.
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: One report looking specifically at military spouses, of whom are women,
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: found that remote work could be a real positive for them.
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: The unemployment rate for military spouses is about compared to
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: the pre pandemic and not true anymore of four uh.
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: This could be due to inability to speak of language
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: as they move from base to base, difficulty finding short
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: term employment. Because of this, they are often targeted for MLMs.
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: More remote work options could change that could give them
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: something else that they could do. So remote work and
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: flexible scheduling options don't just help women but also other
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: marginalized groups. So there are some positives, but as expected,
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: there are some downsize and we'll get into those after
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: a quick break. Form a ward from our sponsor and
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: we're back, Thank you sponsor. Uh So, yeah, it's not
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: all good. We've been painting a very rosy picture here,
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: but there are some definite downsize. A recent I m
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: F study found that in the face of the pandemic,
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: one million workers and thirty five advanced and emerging companies
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: are at risk of losing their jobs due to their
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: inability to work remotely in a majority of those impacted
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: are the young, the poor, and women, potentially compounding wealth
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: and gender wealth gaps. For women specifically, this is due
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: to the fact that they do make up a large
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: chunk of hospitality jobs and also carry the primary responsibility
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: for childcare, while these services are currently largely unavailable. Right.
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: I actually just read something about people who work lunch
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: spaces and things like that at work offices and how
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: they've lost their business because of that. So it is
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: is a question of yes, we understand, but these other
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: businesses grew because of needs in office types of workplaces. So.
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: But for those that can work remotely, one of the
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: potential issues has to do with increased domestic work. We've
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: talked about this before. Several studies have found that while
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: men who work from home focus on their work, women
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: are expected to pick up more domestic responsibility, particularly now
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: with homeschooling. Um. That can and that can be distracting
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: and frustrating, leading to family conflict. Uh. Job creeps into
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: family time and extreme multitasking. And to that end, some
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: studies have found that companies that allow for flexible work
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: schedules do retain women with children at lower management positions,
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: but that doesn't translate to women advancing to more senior jobs.
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: And one way to combat this is having an office
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: that has a door you can close to have a
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: separate sphere, even if it's an office that's in a closet,
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: right yeah um. And if you're in a relationship with
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: a significant other, having them share the load also helps.
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: And other experts suggest that home life interruptions during video
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: meetings may make women doubt their capabilities. Yeah, sort of
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: the remote working version of imposter syndrome. Right. Um. Another
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: issue that might come up is a lack of access
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: to informal networks, particularly largely male decision makers. If you're
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: in a zoom meeting, it's more difficult to get informal
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: feedback and advice that often transforms employees into leaders. And
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: while remote work can, in theory democratize promotions, it depends
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: on people putting themselves forward, their resumes for speaking up
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: for themselves when it comes to promotions, negotiation, negotiating salaries,
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: All of those things that we know do have gender
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: differences with women putting themselves forward less. On top of that,
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: who's getting invited to those informal work happy hours and
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: what decisions are being made on sidebar conversations? How many
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: him and stay on you to hide household disruptions. This
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: is not a thing that I had considered, But yes,
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: I guess that is true. If you've got something going on,
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: you wouldn't mute, right. Yeah. Uh. Something else to be
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: watching is what happens when some of us do start
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: re entering the office and for some uh, that won't
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: be an option due to relocation for whatever reason. Um,
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: will it be more men running into each other and
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: traveling for work and therefore getting more promotions? Will women
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: miss out on those quick informal decision making conversations, which,
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: by the way, we call it our office fly bys. UM.
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: I do not like fly bys because it's like you freeze,
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: because you you understand that this decision needs to be
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: very made, very quickly. And I'm someone who likes to
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: consider all of the options. So I usually panic and
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: immediately regret what I say, and then I debate on
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: do I email? But actually, yeah, so I don't like those.
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: I'm not a fan of those, but they do happen.
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: Um Essentially, would we all end up going to the
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: office anyway because we're afraid of being left out or
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: out of sight, out of mind. Uh. In one article
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: I read, they said, well, the office become the new
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: status symbol, like going into the office. That's interesting because,
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: as you and I've talked about, I have not been
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: in the office that often, and I just kind of
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: officially started right as the pandemic quarantine happened, And so
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: I got went in the office a few times and
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: and didn't see the many people. I don't even have
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: a desk there, not because they didn't offer. I'm just like,
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: why would I need it? You know, I don't know
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: what I would need it? More than because I can
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: do this from this table over here, because it does
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: an open space with large tables and such. But yeah,
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: I thought about this and like, people don't know I
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: exist in that office because they don't realize I was
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: hired so close to the quarantine happening. It's like, oh, yeah,
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: she doesn't work there, doesn't she like, hey, I'm over here,
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: So this is interesting. I do think about that too.
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, well, I guess people don't know who
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: I am. That's cool and interesting. Well, even I worry
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: about it because I, as you know, and I'm almost
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: afraid to admit this, but I hate meetings and I
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: don't frequently go to them even if I'm invited to them,
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: and sometimes I'm worried. That's well, it's probably really not
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: a good career. Again, so you don't like face times either.
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: So new data also indicates that remote work days right
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: after the pandemic were longer and filled with more emails
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: and so many more meetings. Um, but it has evened
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: down a bit, I will say that. Yeah. Yeah, So
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: if we look at recommendations, how do we how do
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: we go forward? Experts recommend collecting and analyzing data examining
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: work cultures to determine if work from home is suitable
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: and keep in mind issues of gender and access, and
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: have women in other marginalized groups involved in these discussions
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: and decisions. Education for managers and clear communication of rules
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: and avoiding rewarding people who come in over those who don't,
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: which scientifically there is a lot of research that shows
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: that's difficult. Um, But if you know that, keep that
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: in mind, U and keeping an eye on output, like
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: if remote workers getting all of their work done timely manner,
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: that's got to keep an eye on that output. Yeah,
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: mhm um. And of course communication always communication, and it
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: is a little more difficult now that we are in pandemic.
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: Can't just come up and talk to someone about a
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: quick idea or have a flyby apparently I've learned as
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: a thing, but yeah, to have to actually type it
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: out and send it on and hoping that you can
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: have a clear communication, which I've you and I talked
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: about this other day as we were talking about interview people.
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: We weren't sure exactly if everything has been communicated, but
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: we didn't want to step on toes even though it's
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: a damn email. Yeah, yeah, I mean it's I can
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: see the positives of it in the negatives of it,
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: because on one hand, it's harder to have a fly by,
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: which means that hopefully more people are involved or less
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: people are left out. Maybe it's a better way of
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: saying it as opposed to an informal conversation decision that
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: just happened, like you know, as you walked by somebody. Um,
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: but uh, and also there'd be a record of it.
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: But I can see the the downside as well, the difficulties.
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: And you know, we don't really use slack at our office,
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: or at least our team doesn't. Other teams in our
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: office does. But I've heard about like slack secret Slack
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: discussions and things happening like on there. So this is
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: where I feel left out because I have no idea
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: what's happening, because I'm not invited to many because people
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: don't know I exist as my because I haven't been
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: on people's radar. So I'm like, what what's happening? So
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: I have to use other people to tell me what's happening.
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: But that was just decided to note about communication. It
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: is important. It can be difficult sometimes because you have
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: to put a little more effort so on a governmental
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: and corporate level, not surprising, providing social programs and safetiness
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: with the input of those most impacted, which I know
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: it's kind of been a lesson of who are you
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: listening to? Whose voices should be race And it's important
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: that we do that within jobs and sectors of remote work. Yes, yes,
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: um And to be clear, remote work doesn't make sexy
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: spices go away. I know I probably don't have to
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: say that, but I'm gonna say it anyway. Until we
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: change things, women will still be judged in video calls
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: by their looks. I've seen these Zoom articles of how
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: to how women can look so good in their Zoom meetings, um,
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: or by the way they phrase things in text. How
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: many exclamation points did we use or didn't use? Yeah,
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: I'm g s so much judgment. But in a lot
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: of ways, remote work and flexible hours are beneficial to
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: women and not just women. Of course, we've talked about
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: the economic and professional penalties to women during this pandemic too.
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: So while this pandemic might be pushing corporate culture towards
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: more flexible work hours and remote work options, which does
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: and will continue to benfit a lot of women. We
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: can't forget all other areas we've been women have been
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: hurt in during this pandemic and in many cases for
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: the long term, and how we can tackle those things too.
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: Um and also always worth reiterating access who has access
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: to remote working? So um, that's that's an overview. It
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: is interesting doing this right now when so many of
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: these things are unfolding. Uh, and we're seeing I know
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: when our meetings, our boss has brought up several times
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: like my kids are here and I'm having to rethink
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: all of this stuff. And it's just interesting to watch
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: it play out. And thanks to Julia for suggesting it
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: right um. Definitely worth discussing, and kudos to her and
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: how she's having to handle her situation. Yes, yes, yes,
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: yes um. If you listeners have any suggestion for us,
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: we would love to hear them. You can email us
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: at Stuff, Medium, Bomb, Stuff at i arn't media dot com.
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: You can find us on Instagram at Stuff I've Never
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: Told You or on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast. Thanks.
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: It's always to our super producer Andrew Howard. Thanks Andrew,
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: and thanks to you for listening. Stuff I've Never Told
• 35:42
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