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Blue Christmas: A Perspective for finding joy even with the loss of a loved one · Centrally Speaking

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: Centrally speaking, it is the Central Schwarteller Church's podcast.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: It speaks about issues that would be of interest to our society.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: In particular, it addresses how a Christian worldview intersects with Western secular culture.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: In the spirit of the church's founder, we take the perspective of the Middle Way, which is in agreement with the historic Christian Church.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Dr.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: Drake Williams, Minister of Mission and Theology of the Church.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: Our website is www.cscfamily.org.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: Today we're talking about Blue Christmas, a perspective for finding joy even with the loss of a loved one.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: I'm very fortunate to have a good friend and colleague in the ministry, Reverend Dr.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: David McKinley, who's been the senior pastor here at the Central Schweinckfelder Church for 16 years.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: He's served here at the church for over 20 years and has been in the ministry since 1995.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: He has extensive experience with grief, grief counseling, and with pastoral care.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: He's also a family man who has three children, along with his lovely wife, Linda.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: So, David, welcome again to Essentially Speaking.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: Good to have you here.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Drake.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's a pleasure.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: Talking about grief, and at this time of year, there are so many different emotions, joy, excitement, anticipation.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: But for many, it's also sadness, gloom, and depression.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: In your experience, do you find a lot of people who are going through grief at the holiday season?
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_02: I do.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_02: In fact, it feels like that maybe a good third or half of people that I encounter in church life see the holidays as not altogether a joyful or a happy time, but they carry with them some level of grief, some level of loss.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe they lost a loved one years ago.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe it's someone that has passed on in the last three years.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_02: But nevertheless, life is not the same because their loved one is not with them any longer.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: Do you find at this time of year people seeking you out as a pastor specifically to talk about this more?
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_02: There are those that do.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_02: In fact, there's a gentleman in our congregation, a dear soul, that his wife passed away at Christmas time several years ago.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_02: And so this time of year brings up a certain amount of sorrow.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_02: And I'll ask how he's doing.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_02: He's very active in church life because he was so in love with his wife.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_02: When he says her name, when he remembers her, he can't help but to have a crack in his voice.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the memories are vivid, the sense of loss is real.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_02: And it is something that, as one person said, it's not something that you get over, it's something that you live with.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm thinking about living with it then.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: Uh some have said that there are various stages of grief that people go through.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: Won't you share what those stages are and the time that it takes to process the loss of a loved person?
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_02: I'm going off of memory here, but there was a good article produced by the University of Washington that painted the five stages of grief.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_02: But uh other authorities say that there are four stages of grief, and still others say that there are seven stages of grief.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_02: But they are shock and depression and anger and acceptance or processing.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_02: So it all depends on the person as far as the time to wade through these different stages.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_02: And some articles will say that the stages are linear, that they come one after the other in a certain order.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_02: And then others might say that one stage might precede another or might come after another.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_02: Bargaining, that's another part of the stage of this kind of ruminating.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_02: Well, if only this would have happened, or only if I would have made this decision, maybe my loved one would still be here, or some sort of recounting the chain of events that might be done differently in hopes that there would have been a different turnout.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_02: But the bottom line is grief is something that you do not find, it finds you.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_02: And we all go through it with different times and different elements.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_02: When the children of Israel lost Moses, they grieved for 40 days and 40 nights.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_02: Others have advised that if you have experienced the loss of a loved one, a spouse, or a child, that you should make no important decision within a year of that event.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_02: So different people work through their grief in different ways and at different speeds.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: But I bet it can be especially enhanced at Christmas time with maybe the memories of a loved one that you share around a Christmas tree or at a over a dinner or other activities.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: And right now our society seems to be so focused on romance and gift giving.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: Do you find that that enhances a sense of grief at this time of year?
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_02: I think it can.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_02: That certainly feeds into it, but I think that more than anything that enhances grief is remembering special experiences.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_02: You know, the family dinner at Christmas, or attending a candlelight service with a loved one, or making cookies with that person.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_02: Or for instance, if someone has lost their father and this person always used to dress up as Santa Claus and spend time with the children.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_02: These are the things that I think enhance grief the most.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_02: But I don't think that our culture helps at all when, yes, there's a lot of romance and a lot of emphasis on gift giving.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_02: I think that that can serve as just a reminder that my life is not the way that I think it should be if I'm going through grief.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: Here at the church, I know we have a tradition of putting poinsettias on the altar in the remembrance of loved people.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: And for those who haven't been to the church, it could be a hundred or so of poinsettias up by the altar given in memories of wives, husbands, brothers or sisters or children.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: I wonder if you could say something about this tradition that we have at the church and how these memorials might help and give an avenue to express grief.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that's a great question.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_02: I tried to do some research, asked some of the old timers around here.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_02: That tradition goes back a long way.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm not sure when we started that.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_02: But decorating the chancellor with poinsettas, that's a common tradition in churches.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_02: But purchasing or donating a poinsettia in memory of a loved one, that might be especially germane to Central Schweinfelder Church.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_02: And then what we do is we publish the names of those families and the tribute to their loved one.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_02: And if you get a hold of that pamphlet that's available at Christmas time, the tributes are very special.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_02: There will be nicknames used, or, you know, in memory of pop up or mom mom or some sort of even message of a spouse that has passed on.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_02: And it's very endearing.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_02: It's very special to read those names and to read those tributes.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_02: And being at the church as long as we have Drake, a lot of our friends are in that pamphlet.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's hard for a lot of us to realize that this person is no longer here and they're with the Lord.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_02: And as someone once said, you know, we don't grieve for them.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_02: If they were a Christian, they're with Christ, but we grieve for ourselves because our lives are so affected by their absence.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_02: But the Poinsetta, of course, has a wonderful legend to it.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_02: Some say that it originated in Mexico, but of course, the leaves are in the shape of a star, which stands for the Star of Bethlehem.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_02: And of course, the greener is a symbol of life.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_02: And then the red petal is a symbol of Christ's blood that provides atonement for our sin.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_02: So there is a Christian message to the Poinsettia.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_02: And of course, our chancel is beautiful as it's decorated for Christmas Eve services and Christmas Day.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's very special.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: And having lost a mother about five years ago to sponsor a memorial in her honor is very meaningful for our family.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I personally find it a way to helpful for processing the loss that she's not here.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_02: And your mother was a leader here and a very special personality, and she had a positive influence on everyone that knew her.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: Many people look at the Christmas holidays and they think only of happy times, but Christmas story also has some hardship and grief in it.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: Can you say something about grief or sadness in the Christmas story and maybe how that might help someone who's having a blue time at this time of year?
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_02: Well, the wonderful thing about the Christian faith, one of the wonderful things is that it's the story of God with us, Emmanuel, that Jesus was born to a virgin.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_02: His parents were peasants.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_02: And when he was offered at the temple, the sacrifice that was made was typical for a peasant family, a very poor family.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_02: Two turtle doves, I think my memory serves me right.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_02: He was born laid in a manger.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_02: That was a very dirty place to lay a child, but that's what Mary and Joseph had.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_02: The whole idea that Jesus came and dwelt among us, John chapter one, but also that he identifies with also our emotions.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_02: Shortest verse in the Bible is found in John chapter 11, I believe, verse 35, before Jesus raises his good friend Lazarus from the dead.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_02: It says, Jesus wept.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_02: Also, the Jews in that chapter observed Christ.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_02: And there's a scripture that says, Behold how he loved him.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_02: The whole idea is that Jesus understands what it means to grieve the loss of a loved one.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_02: And he came in the garment of hardship.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_02: And he, as he said of himself, you know, the Son of Man has no place to lay his head.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_02: He identifies with every sort of hardship and adversity that we face.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_02: His fellowship with the Father was broken when he was on the cross because he bore our sin.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_02: And he quotes the words of the psalmist, My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_02: That was a real feeling that he had from the cross.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_02: And so anything that we experience as far as loss, hardship, grief, sorrow, Jesus knows exactly what that's like.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_02: And he's able to minister to us in the midst of it.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: Christmas ultimately is about God sending his son for people who need to and are ready to receive him.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: How do you find Jesus providing joy today for someone who might be grieving?
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I think that the Christian message offers an assurance of heaven to those who have put their trust in Christ.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_02: And if you read Paul's words to the Thessalonians in his first letter to that church in chapter 4, verse 13, he says, Now, brothers, I wish that you would not grieve as others who have no hope.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_02: But he assures them that those loved ones who have passed on are with the Lord and that Christ will bring them with him when he returns at his second coming, at the parousia.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_02: But in the meantime, the Christian faith, because we have the Holy Spirit, because Christ is our advocate before the Father, he provides wonderful things that I've heard you quote as saying the forgiveness of sin, the power for living, and the hope for eternity.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_02: And those are those are three wonderful gifts that we can enjoy this side of heaven.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_02: And so we can make it through the loss of a spouse.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_02: We can endure the loss of a child.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_02: We can get through the death of a dear friend or a sibling because God is bigger than those sorrows.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_02: And that holds tremendous hope for those of us who've trusted in Christ.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: And this season so much is about hope.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: Hope that Jesus would come the first time, but the hope that he would come the second time to dry every tear that we might have.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we're about to have a busy Christmas Eve here at the church.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: Do you wish to share with our listeners about Christmas Eve services?
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_02: Christmas Eve is the busiest time, busiest day of the year for us as ministers, Drake, but it's so enjoyable because there is a lot of joy here.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_02: People are full of well-wishes and encouragements.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_02: And so we love spending it with our folks.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_02: And so we want to warmly invite everyone who's listening to this podcast to come and share Christmas Eve with us.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_02: At 2 p.m., we have a family service that will feature communion.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_02: We'll celebrate the Lord's Supper.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_02: We'll also have a first-person narrative by Joseph and Mary.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_02: So it will be very enjoyable and be quite entertaining and encouraging.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_02: And children are encouraged to come to that service.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_02: They will hear the Christmas story as well.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_02: Then at 5 p.m.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_02: in our fellowship hall, we have a contemporary Christmas Eve service that will also feature the Lord's Supper.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_02: The music will be more contemporary in style with a band, guitars, and keyboards and drums and things.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_02: And that's always enjoyable.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_02: And then at 7 p.m., we'll have the traditional candlelight service that will feature chancel choir as well as some brass wind instruments.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_02: And that is also enjoyable.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_02: And we'll celebrate the Lord's Supper as well.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_02: So 2 p.m., 5 p.m., 7 p.m., we would love to have you and your families join us.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks so much for sending this interview with us, Dr.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: McKinley.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: And let me wish you an early Merry Christmas.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_02: And Merry Christmas to you, Dr.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_02: Drake and your family.