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Star Wars The Master of Evil Review CCLXIV · Star Wars Alliance

0:00
Speaker 1: The Force will be with you always.
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Speaker 2: Hello, everyone, Welcome back to another episode of a Star
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Speaker 2: Wars Alliance your home on Gegle Tomas Podcast Network for
0:25
Speaker 2: any and all. Thanks Star Wars. I'm your host as
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Speaker 2: always Katie and with me like always is Clay Clai.
0:34
Speaker 2: How are you doing tonight?
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Speaker 3: I am doing fantastic because I read a book on time.
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Speaker 2: We read the book, read it two times.
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Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, which also I uh, before we jump into this,
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Speaker 3: of course, the book in question is uh Star Wars
1:02
Speaker 3: The Master of Evil, written by Adam Christopher. Yes, I
1:08
Speaker 3: want to go ahead and say this. Adam Christopher writes
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Speaker 3: in a way that I am able to read his
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Speaker 3: books fast. I was able to do it with Shadow
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Speaker 3: of the Sith. I was able to do it with this.
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Speaker 3: Now I will say I think this was a lighter
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Speaker 3: read than Shadow of the Sith. But yeah, for some reason,
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Speaker 3: his writing style is just really easy to just glide through.
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Speaker 2: So I actually struggled on this one the first read through.
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Speaker 1: Like oh, Shadow of the Sith, I sped read, and
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Speaker 1: the first round through with this book I struggled.
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Speaker 2: And I think it's because of the way the chapter
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Speaker 2: lay out ends up playing out. Okay, because the front chapters,
2:05
Speaker 2: and I think this was the same case with Shadow
2:07
Speaker 2: of the Sith. However, we were in like a tight
2:10
Speaker 2: deadline situation for Shadow of the Sith, so I may
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Speaker 2: have like glossed over this a little bit. The front
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Speaker 2: chapters are very heavy detail. You're getting introduced to everything.
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Speaker 2: It's not as light as some of the other Star
2:24
Speaker 2: Wars books in introducing everything.
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Speaker 3: I kind of have to agree, actually, now that I'm
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Speaker 3: thinking about it. On this second reread, actually my second
2:36
Speaker 3: reread was actually a listen. I got to listen to
2:39
Speaker 3: the book, and I did notice that, comparatively to the
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Speaker 3: last five chapters, the first five chapters are heavily detailed.
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Speaker 2: And I think that's where I struggled, because, like with
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Speaker 2: Shadow the Sith, I didn't feel like there was as
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Speaker 2: much of a need for like introducing where is like
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Speaker 2: the prologue to this book. This book has a prologue
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Speaker 2: and then fifty eight chapters. And the prologue I looked
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Speaker 2: at it on my second read through on my Kindle
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Speaker 2: and it was like, uh, you have fourteen minutes left
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Speaker 2: in this chapter, and typically I am like ten minutes
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Speaker 2: or less with my speed reading capabilities, and like the
3:31
Speaker 2: prologue in and of itself is ginormous, and like, so
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Speaker 2: I finished the first eight chapters last night, and that's
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Speaker 2: the first The first eight chapters with the prologue is
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Speaker 2: twenty five percent of the book.
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Speaker 3: Wait really, yeah, holy cow?
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Speaker 2: And that's not necessarily a bad thing because realistically, like
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Speaker 2: I've read the rest of the book today in about
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Speaker 2: four hours. Yeah, and it was really easy reading the
4:04
Speaker 2: second time around because I knew what to expect and
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Speaker 2: so it was a little bit easier for a read through. However,
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Speaker 2: I'm still also finicky on the details and ultimately where
4:21
Speaker 2: this is in the Charles Soul comic run, which is
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Speaker 2: going to be my first question for you. Where do
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Speaker 2: you think this takes place?
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Speaker 3: So I'm curious to why you think. Your answer is
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Speaker 3: the answer that you gave.
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Speaker 2: I. So my answer, guys, is I think this is
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Speaker 2: between issues six and seven in the Charles Soul run.
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Speaker 3: Yes, And I looked at that issues six and seven
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Speaker 3: is right around the time that we are introduced to
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Speaker 3: the Inquisitors in.
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Speaker 2: Right, So seven is the Inquisitors, I think, or is
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Speaker 2: it six that's the inquisitors?
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Speaker 3: I believe six is when we are introduced to the
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Speaker 3: Grand Inquisitor.
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Speaker 2: Okay, so it will be five and six then, not
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Speaker 2: six and seven.
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Speaker 3: I apologze. Okay, Okay, Okay, that makes more sense because
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Speaker 3: I was like, but I now that makes sense.
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Speaker 2: I read the comic before my second read, and I
5:32
Speaker 2: must have gotten just mixed up with the issue numbers
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Speaker 2: because I wanted to go back and reread the comic
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Speaker 2: even though we've just read it. Guys, go listen to
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Speaker 2: our two reviews on that series if you guys are
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Speaker 2: interested in what we thought. But I went ahead and
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Speaker 2: read it again just to kind of get some additional context.
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Speaker 2: We do see the crystal bleeding in chapter format in
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Speaker 2: this book, so that's kind of why I'm like, Okay,
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Speaker 2: this takes place directly after that kind of thing.
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Speaker 3: So not only that, I don't know if this was
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Speaker 3: done semi on purpose.
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Speaker 2: But.
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Speaker 3: There is a really funny thing that Adam Christopher did.
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Speaker 3: If this is the case, because I agree with you.
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Speaker 3: I didn't agree with you when you said six and seven.
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Speaker 3: Now I agree with you would saying five and six,
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Speaker 3: which expected. Yeah, Adam Christopher does give his version of
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Speaker 3: the bleeding of the Crystal, but little spoilers for literally
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Speaker 3: the very end of this book, when Vader presents himself
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Speaker 3: after everything that happens in the book, presents himself too sidious.
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Speaker 3: At the end of this book, he literally looks exactly
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Speaker 3: like this in this panel at the very end of
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Speaker 3: issue number five. Coincidentally, he looks exactly like that again
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Speaker 3: battle damaged and everything else. So I wonder if that
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Speaker 3: is somewhat done on purpose, Yeah.
7:36
Speaker 2: To kind of lean everything together.
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Speaker 3: I don't know, Yeah, But the only difference is some
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Speaker 3: of the characters that were in the book are not
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Speaker 3: present in the last page or the last few pages
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Speaker 3: of issue five. And again it's up to interpretation. Uh.
8:04
Speaker 3: The the comics versus books, versus TV versus movie is
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Speaker 3: all kind of like, in my mind, like it ebbs
8:23
Speaker 3: and flows like almost almost in a way of like
8:28
Speaker 3: it's a matter of perspective. It's a matter of a
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Speaker 3: certain point of view.
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Speaker 2: And Adam Christopher had said when he pitched this book,
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Speaker 2: because he I believe Tom said he pitched this book. Okay,
8:43
Speaker 2: I may be misremembering that, but I thought Tom had
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Speaker 2: said that Adam had pitched the book and it had
8:49
Speaker 2: found he had found a little known a hole basically
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Speaker 2: in this My hesitation is because we know that, hey,
8:59
Speaker 2: he goes to meet with Palpatine after he gets his savor,
9:04
Speaker 2: that's where where you're talking about at the end of
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Speaker 2: issue five. But we also know he meets with Palpatine
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Speaker 2: to get the Red Guard. We never see Vader with
9:14
Speaker 2: the Red Guard yeah, in the comic. So that's where
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Speaker 2: I'm like, Okay, this makes the most sense that it
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Speaker 2: is here, so I would say that's where we are.
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Speaker 2: I'm interested to see you to hear Adam Christopher's interviews
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Speaker 2: next week because we're recording this before interviews and everything
9:34
Speaker 2: started to come out, So I'll be interested to see
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Speaker 2: what he has to say on where it's at, because
9:40
Speaker 2: I'm assuming with interviews and stuff that he'll be able
9:44
Speaker 2: to reveal that. Yeah, but we kind of skipped over
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Speaker 2: an important part of a review episode, Clay, what is
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Speaker 2: your generic thoughts on this?
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Speaker 3: Yeah, I know we kind of just jumped right into
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Speaker 3: everything here, and I I think that's just to tell, like,
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Speaker 3: for me anyway, how much I really enjoyed this book.
10:05
Speaker 3: I like Adam Christopher's writing. We both enjoyed Shadow of
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Speaker 3: the Sith, and we were very eager to read this.
10:16
Speaker 3: Mind you this book and this is part of my
10:23
Speaker 3: like surface level thoughts, like last order, this book was
10:31
Speaker 3: not entirely what it was meant or it wasn't exactly
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Speaker 3: what it was. Yeah, it did not convey appropriately quote unquote,
10:44
Speaker 3: And again it's all a matter of perspective and everything else,
10:50
Speaker 3: because to a point, it did do exactly what it
10:52
Speaker 3: was meant to do. But I'm curious as to why
11:01
Speaker 3: Adam leaned on a new character that he introduced, that
11:15
Speaker 3: character being halland Goth and we'll talk more about him
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Speaker 3: once we get into the nitty gritty of this book.
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Speaker 3: But you know, initial thoughts when I read this all
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Speaker 3: the way through, even in the midway through, I was like,
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Speaker 3: this is not the book that I thought I was
11:35
Speaker 3: gonna read. Again, not entirely a bad thing because of
11:43
Speaker 3: the different ways we can approach getting to where the
11:48
Speaker 3: synopsis said we were going to get. So upon doing that, though,
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Speaker 3: the ending of this book introduced something very big and
12:03
Speaker 3: I do have a question for you about that once
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Speaker 3: we get there, and it like it made it got
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Speaker 3: it got me to like perk up when I started
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Speaker 3: to like read it. There is a certain chapter at
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Speaker 3: the very like near the end of this book that
12:21
Speaker 3: I was like, oh, are we going there? Oh, is
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Speaker 3: this what we're doing? What does this mean?
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Speaker 2: I'mius what you're talking about.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm being vague for a reason, so thought yes.
12:38
Speaker 3: So with that, just to reiterate, yeah, not entirely the
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Speaker 3: book I thought I was going to read. I enjoyed
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Speaker 3: it anyway, and I'm curious to know does this move
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Speaker 3: the needle on the idea of Darth Vader as a character, Like,
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Speaker 3: does this book as a book that we thought was
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Speaker 3: going to change the way we saw Darth Vader his
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Speaker 3: evolution of a character. Does this move the needle at all?
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Speaker 2: So, honestly, I'm gonna say no, simply because of one
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Speaker 2: of the last chapters.
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Speaker 4: I was left confused at the end of it, and
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Speaker 4: I kind of feel like we ended up in the
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Speaker 4: same place, maybe a little more.
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Speaker 2: Darth Vader is accepting well, So to answer the generic
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Speaker 2: thoughts one first.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, well, because because that's that's the thing, I'm
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Speaker 3: gonna go ahead and throw that out there since you
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Speaker 3: kind of started to answer it. The idea of Darth
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Speaker 3: Vader is he is an evil dude.
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Speaker 2: M h.
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Speaker 3: Everything that we have read and everything that we have
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Speaker 3: seen does not waiver that at all. The only time
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Speaker 3: that that waivers is when he is supposed to at
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Speaker 3: the end of Return of the Jedi.
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Speaker 2: M hm.
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Speaker 3: He is no longer Darth Vader at that point we know,
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Speaker 3: or the way that it is interpreted in the Star
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Speaker 3: Wars lore is that he returned to the Light side
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Speaker 3: and he regained his identity of Anakin Skywalker.
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Speaker 2: Correct.
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Speaker 3: Yes, so he is no longer Darth Vader. Darth Vader
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Speaker 3: is the menacing, evil right hand of a dictator of
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Speaker 3: the galaxy. So when there are moments that happened in
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Speaker 3: this book, it makes me. It goes back to the
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Speaker 3: question or the statement that we've had, ironically a couple
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Speaker 3: times in the show recently, is villains need to stay villains. Guys,
15:32
Speaker 3: we shouldn't wave them from that. Yes, they can have
15:34
Speaker 3: layers of intellectual thoughts and all of this other thing,
15:39
Speaker 3: But can a decision to make a character a certain
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Speaker 3: way change it too much? And I think this was
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Speaker 3: teetering a little too close to that edge.
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Speaker 2: That's I think where I end up with this is
15:58
Speaker 2: okay to do the generic thoughts because then we can
16:03
Speaker 2: dive into spoilers. Okay, So, guys, like I said, I
16:07
Speaker 2: have kind of been convoluted with this book, and because
16:12
Speaker 2: I read the book probably the beginning of October, and
16:15
Speaker 2: then I said, Okay, I'm gonna give it a break.
16:18
Speaker 2: And then I ended up giving it a longer break
16:20
Speaker 2: than I anticipated because I'm still convoluted on it, and
16:23
Speaker 2: I was like, okay, I know a second read is
16:26
Speaker 2: going to help benefit my thoughts. I left the second
16:32
Speaker 2: read less convoluted, but still convoluted, I think simply because
16:43
Speaker 2: of the thing that I've already said. I don't think
16:45
Speaker 2: it moves the Darth Vader needle any further other than
16:49
Speaker 2: and maybe you can convince me on the end of
16:53
Speaker 2: the book. I don't know. I do like the introduction
16:58
Speaker 2: of Colonel God. I thought he was an interesting character,
17:03
Speaker 2: being a person who's going to have a lifelong disability.
17:07
Speaker 2: I enjoyed reading about another person who is stuck with
17:10
Speaker 2: a lifelong disability that's gonna end up killing him. Mine
17:13
Speaker 2: probably won't kill me, knock on wood. But you know,
17:17
Speaker 2: it's nice to have that representation there because so often
17:21
Speaker 2: the disability community is not represented, and it was nice
17:24
Speaker 2: to see it in Last Order for the little bit
17:26
Speaker 2: that we got with uh Tria. But then it was
17:31
Speaker 2: even nicer to get it here. I love TC ninety nine.
17:34
Speaker 2: I think he's a great Trod. I love the slighting
17:38
Speaker 2: the Matrix season in to add to his characterization. I
17:43
Speaker 2: think that's super cool. I know see Threebo had done
17:46
Speaker 2: it a couple times in the Legends, so that was
17:50
Speaker 2: kind of cool to bring that in.
17:53
Speaker 3: It didn't I will say this, I did not even interpret,
18:00
Speaker 3: even though I literally I must have read it too fast.
18:04
Speaker 3: I did not realize until my second read that the
18:07
Speaker 3: TC series is basically the carbon copy series of the
18:14
Speaker 3: C three series.
18:16
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the earlier version of the C three pl
18:20
Speaker 2: or the three PO series. I think it is what
18:23
Speaker 2: they called it endless. So I really enjoyed TC ninety nine.
18:29
Speaker 2: I'm curious about dso. I love getting to see other
18:33
Speaker 2: cultures force using brought into Star Wars. That was something
18:39
Speaker 2: I really loved about Legends, and so I was super
18:41
Speaker 2: happy to get it here. Despite what the synopsis said,
18:45
Speaker 2: so kind of hint with that is it kind of
18:49
Speaker 2: does relate to the synopsis, But I still left convoluted
18:55
Speaker 2: because and I think if there was a clear indication
19:01
Speaker 2: of where this took place in the comic, I think
19:04
Speaker 2: Charles Soul's Darth Vader comic is so vital to the
19:07
Speaker 2: character mm hmm, and that we see such growth in Vader.
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Speaker 2: I like the Lightsaber creation in the Soul comic feels
19:21
Speaker 2: like Darth Vader went back to being a paddlewan. It
19:24
Speaker 2: is a very learning experience. We see how bad grows
19:31
Speaker 2: in the dark Side again going to the hey, villains
19:33
Speaker 2: need to stay villains. But the characterization there is.
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Speaker 3: Cool, yes, because we because one thing that is reminded
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Speaker 3: to us by Sidious and Little Spoiler again by the
19:47
Speaker 3: dark Side itself is that Vader is still new to this.
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Speaker 2: And I don't feel like, ultimately where we get with
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Speaker 2: this book that that newness to the dark Side is
20:06
Speaker 2: done justice. I know Anakin Skywalker is very perful, powerful,
20:11
Speaker 2: JENNI M I know that Darth Vader is very powerful.
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Speaker 3: Sixth mm hmm.
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Speaker 2: This is still supposed to be within the first year
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Speaker 2: of Darth Vader being a dark Side apprentice. Yeah, I
20:27
Speaker 2: don't get the conflict.
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Speaker 3: Oh, your your iPad emojis are up. That's hilarious.
20:38
Speaker 2: I didn't realize that that was up. And here, I
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Speaker 2: don't know, it's hard to say without spoilers why, but
20:50
Speaker 2: the conflict that Vader faces in this it feels like
20:54
Speaker 2: he's at the ten year mark of being the Sith
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Speaker 2: Apprentice versus six months. Actually it feels less than that
21:04
Speaker 2: because I think so issue issue six is I think
21:12
Speaker 2: Palpatine says, hey, it's been a year since my reign
21:16
Speaker 2: started or something. It's like six seven, eight in that range.
21:22
Speaker 2: It's in the Jocasta New arc of it basically, So
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Speaker 2: I feel like he just feels a little too powerful
21:32
Speaker 2: even being who he is. I get he's the chosen
21:34
Speaker 2: One guy still, but I feel like there's still dark
21:38
Speaker 2: side energy should have won out a little bit more maybe,
21:41
Speaker 2: Like so those are like my general thoughts, Yeah, I
21:46
Speaker 2: know a lot that's I say for general thoughts.
21:50
Speaker 3: Well literal and I get it. Like, because this is
21:53
Speaker 3: I can see how this can be a controversial book
22:00
Speaker 3: for people who look at Darth Vader as the ultimate
22:05
Speaker 3: dark Side badass, you know, and thinking they're going to
22:09
Speaker 3: jump into a book that's all about the general hardcore
22:16
Speaker 3: Darth Vader badassory. Right, yeah, because it does come to
22:23
Speaker 3: a very abrupt stop m hm as the prologue. It's
22:29
Speaker 3: like it's like boom, we're jumping into count Dooku and
22:34
Speaker 3: then we go straight into somebody who isn't Darth Vader.
22:46
Speaker 2: And I don't mind the prologue being there. I do
22:48
Speaker 2: think if you don't have the prologue, you don't hit
22:52
Speaker 2: quite as hard because you need that introduction for where
22:56
Speaker 2: the ship is. And we're done spoilers now, guys, but.
23:02
Speaker 3: Still tadbit minor. I somewhat disagree. I think that there
23:12
Speaker 3: could have been more and I haven't used this term
23:17
Speaker 3: in a while for our reviews, but there could have
23:20
Speaker 3: been more meat and potatoes in the revealing of the
23:25
Speaker 3: mystery near the middle to end of this book. If
23:30
Speaker 3: you don't have that introduction, because you have the character
23:36
Speaker 3: that is the spoiler Droid that is still there, right,
23:42
Speaker 3: that can kind of be able to have the exposition.
23:50
Speaker 3: So you literally could have the prologue non existent and
23:57
Speaker 3: still be totally fine with everything there.
24:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, because now that you say that, I do feel
24:06
Speaker 2: like Dooku, we know at this point has been Palpatine's
24:12
Speaker 2: apprentice for almost thirteen years, basically because you think he
24:18
Speaker 2: left at or he had shortly become Palpatine's apprentice at
24:24
Speaker 2: the end of the Phantom Menace. Based on what we
24:26
Speaker 2: know in.
24:27
Speaker 3: Trials and Jedi and.
24:31
Speaker 2: So right here just about we're at like eleven, twelve,
24:34
Speaker 2: thirteen years somewhere in that range. And so the fact
24:39
Speaker 2: of the matter is is that he chose to betray
24:42
Speaker 2: Palpatine at that point and tried to set himself up
24:45
Speaker 2: for success for this dark Side nexus power. What we
24:49
Speaker 2: learn in the prologue is a virgins So we're bringing
24:53
Speaker 2: that verbiage into play once again in the Star Wars universe,
24:58
Speaker 2: which is interesting, but we'll get to that. And he goes, oh,
25:02
Speaker 2: I'm going to save this power for myself and sends
25:04
Speaker 2: it off to anchor in hyperspace. My problem is is
25:08
Speaker 2: that you I think I would maybe disagree with you
25:11
Speaker 2: if we didn't know, if we did know that he
25:16
Speaker 2: was sending it off to be anchored in hyperspace. But
25:20
Speaker 2: you don't know that, So I feel like you do still.
25:24
Speaker 2: I feel like you still need like a little bit
25:25
Speaker 2: of setup, but you may not have had to go
25:27
Speaker 2: as long with it.
25:29
Speaker 3: But see where That's why I don't believe you do,
25:35
Speaker 3: because you have literally Adam wrote the prologue out to
25:41
Speaker 3: give you the entire picture in the prologue, but throughout
25:46
Speaker 3: the book you find out that you find out about
25:49
Speaker 3: the B one androids, you find out about the signal,
25:52
Speaker 3: you find out about the hyperspace, all before you even
25:56
Speaker 3: get there. Yeah, so like he's he gets into the
26:08
Speaker 3: like repetitive territory technically throughout the book.
26:15
Speaker 2: Maybe it's the parallel between Douku and Vader, now that
26:20
Speaker 2: I think about it, is that Christopher is trying to showcase, Hey,
26:27
Speaker 2: Doku had been Palpatine's a prentice for this long and
26:31
Speaker 2: now Vader is going to try to do the same
26:33
Speaker 2: thing that Douku's doing with less than six months under
26:36
Speaker 2: his belt. Yeah, maybe that's the reasoning there.
26:42
Speaker 3: I could see that, and I think, like for me,
26:47
Speaker 3: I do think that maybe whether that be it was
26:54
Speaker 3: a editing decision or a decision for Adam himself, that
27:00
Speaker 3: like maybe there was like concerns that like, hey, maybe
27:06
Speaker 3: not every reader will connect the dots, which.
27:11
Speaker 2: Well, I think Star Wars editors know us a lot
27:14
Speaker 2: better and know that, hey, we're smart fans, we will connect.
27:18
Speaker 2: Do I feel like Star Wars books?
27:21
Speaker 3: I love I love a good mystery, especially when the
27:26
Speaker 3: reveal slaps me in the face. I really enjoy getting
27:32
Speaker 3: beat up by mystery. But it's like, I I still
27:38
Speaker 3: enjoyed this book. I know we're kind of like like, yeah,
27:42
Speaker 3: we're now kind of just like picking it apart, But
27:46
Speaker 3: I still enjoyed what this book is.
27:50
Speaker 2: You know. I think I would really enjoy at least
27:56
Speaker 2: the back half of this book adapted in to a
28:00
Speaker 2: Halloween comic, because I feel like the ship is super spooky.
28:06
Speaker 2: I the last three quarters in this book basically.
28:10
Speaker 3: So Sore's here's the thing that gets me. When we
28:15
Speaker 3: jump into hyperspace. I am a very like, Hey, I'm
28:20
Speaker 3: gonna jump into my mind palace and watch this movie
28:24
Speaker 3: as I read this book. That's what I do with books. Now.
28:29
Speaker 3: Do you know what makes that really freaking hard to do?
28:32
Speaker 3: When you have a labyrinth that can literally change every
28:36
Speaker 3: single hallway, every single floor, and you have like three
28:42
Speaker 3: or four ships that I have no idea the concept
28:47
Speaker 3: of what they look like. Yeah, and so they, when
28:52
Speaker 3: I say they, Adam has three different groups go into
28:57
Speaker 3: this temple, finds a way to land and in the
29:00
Speaker 3: middle of hyperspace, and they all find a way relatively
29:05
Speaker 3: the same way, but all different. And so I'm like, Okay,
29:12
Speaker 3: so we're here, what does this mean? And I love
29:16
Speaker 3: immediately immediately every single group is like, what's all this
29:22
Speaker 3: gross stuff around the walls and the ceiling? What like
29:25
Speaker 3: it's supposed to look like, Hey, this is a murder house,
29:28
Speaker 3: by the way, guys, but it.
29:31
Speaker 2: Comes to dark corrosive.
29:33
Speaker 3: Yeah. I legitimately first read read through, I was like,
29:39
Speaker 3: wouldn't that be absolutely hilarious if it was just like
29:43
Speaker 3: oil and coolant? And then that's literally what it was. Uh.
29:50
Speaker 2: I want to correct myself, by the way, because I
29:52
Speaker 2: said I love the back three quarters of this book.
29:54
Speaker 2: I love the middle three quarters of this book. I
29:56
Speaker 2: have issues with the front and I have issues with
29:58
Speaker 2: the back.
30:00
Speaker 3: Totally understandable.
30:02
Speaker 2: I love I need to like say that point plank
30:06
Speaker 2: because I love shadow of this, I love Adam Christopher's writing.
30:10
Speaker 2: I have issues with.
30:12
Speaker 3: At what point? At what point? I have to ask
30:15
Speaker 3: you this, at what point does it dip? What action
30:19
Speaker 3: happened where you're like, wait a second.
30:24
Speaker 2: The final Darth Vader versus Virgin's fight.
30:28
Speaker 3: Okay, so it's anti climactic. I totally understand. Not only
30:37
Speaker 3: is it anti climactic, it's a little confusing, and the reason.
30:43
Speaker 2: Why is because he, just like the Virgins, disappears basically
30:48
Speaker 2: the Virgins.
30:52
Speaker 3: You, you as in the reader, are supposed to legitimately
30:58
Speaker 3: believe that this virgin is Darth Vader. For like, I'm
31:04
Speaker 3: pretty sure two chapters and then in the middle yeses,
31:10
Speaker 3: and then out of nowhere, the real Darth Vader comes
31:14
Speaker 3: out of the Virgins. When that happened, I was like,
31:19
Speaker 3: wait a second, that virgence is walking with that one
31:28
Speaker 3: woman throughout this temple, and several people have also seen
31:35
Speaker 3: them walking together.
31:37
Speaker 2: And what happy a second too? On the first read,
31:42
Speaker 2: like I literally flipped back and forth them. I was like,
31:44
Speaker 2: what the heck just happened? But I recognized it when
31:48
Speaker 2: Appo calls it out because he's sitting there, his knee,
31:54
Speaker 2: his prosthetic lag has been destroyed, and the virgens comes
31:58
Speaker 2: out or whatever, a ghost, a force ghost, whatever.
32:02
Speaker 3: Yeah, the essence of the dark Side, I guess.
32:07
Speaker 2: You could also say, and he goes it's almost like
32:10
Speaker 2: it's floating. There's actually no sound coming out of it.
32:15
Speaker 2: It just it's like it remembered to make a sound
32:18
Speaker 2: when it starts making sounds and stuff.
32:20
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like I had.
32:21
Speaker 2: Kind of put it together, but then when Vader actually
32:24
Speaker 2: climbed out, I did have to go back and go, Okay,
32:26
Speaker 2: are we sure that's what just happened?
32:29
Speaker 3: And like, honestly, this would be really cool adapted into
32:37
Speaker 3: a Tales of Animated Yeah, I could see that too,
32:40
Speaker 3: Like if you want to get weird and creepy, like
32:44
Speaker 3: play with lights and all of that stuff, I think
32:47
Speaker 3: this would be really fun. I want to jump ahead
32:59
Speaker 3: because I would very elusive to what I was talking
33:02
Speaker 3: about on Hey, wait a second, are we going there?
33:05
Speaker 3: What are we doing here? We are introduced to two
33:08
Speaker 3: characters in about the middle of this book, those two
33:14
Speaker 3: characters being force sensitive from the planet DSO DSO. I
33:24
Speaker 3: can't remember the mother's name zero is it zero? But
33:31
Speaker 3: I know that the daughter's name is Anusha. Anusha and
33:41
Speaker 3: her mother decide or agree to follow goth to this
33:48
Speaker 3: temple in the first place to.
33:53
Speaker 2: Help him get there with the gravity lasso.
33:55
Speaker 3: For one yes, but two their mission, which I also
34:01
Speaker 3: kind of get confused by because in the midst of
34:04
Speaker 3: everything that's going on in the temple, at some point
34:06
Speaker 3: you're just like, hey, everyone's mission is basically, hey, we
34:10
Speaker 3: just have to survive now. But their initial go ahead.
34:17
Speaker 2: Their mission going into the temple and getting there is hey,
34:22
Speaker 2: we want to rescue husband dad, and then we want
34:25
Speaker 2: to kill Dater the monster.
34:29
Speaker 3: But is it also and I have to, I guess
34:34
Speaker 3: go into a third read, But was there intent on
34:39
Speaker 3: getting the temple, like getting the temple back? Like what
34:43
Speaker 3: I thought? Okay, because because I know that they got
34:47
Speaker 3: like they were really like upset about the fact that
34:51
Speaker 3: it was stolen and it was part of their history
34:54
Speaker 3: and like it had to do with like all their
34:58
Speaker 3: connections to the force and everything. So like a part
35:01
Speaker 3: of me, for some reason, was like, okay, so they're
35:03
Speaker 3: going to also attempt to get this temple back. That's
35:06
Speaker 3: a little weird and a little crazy. Oh well, let's
35:09
Speaker 3: keep going. So the mother's main focus. She has a
35:16
Speaker 3: lot of anger and hate because eventually Goth messes up.
35:24
Speaker 3: He can't keep up with the lie. He messes up,
35:29
Speaker 3: and they're like, hey, wait a second, who the hell
35:32
Speaker 3: are you. They put blasters to his face and everything else.
35:35
Speaker 3: He's like, okay, I light, I know, Vader, we killed
35:38
Speaker 3: your dad. I'm sorry, And then it becomes okay, well,
35:45
Speaker 3: if that's the truth, thank you for telling us the truth.
35:48
Speaker 3: Let's go kill Vader.
35:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, because he reminds them, hey, I saved your life. Yeah,
35:55
Speaker 2: when this fire broke out. So they basically go, Okay,
35:59
Speaker 2: you saved our lives, will save your life right now?
36:02
Speaker 3: Yeah kind of thing.
36:03
Speaker 2: Don't get on it.
36:03
Speaker 3: Our way basically now the end of their story, or
36:09
Speaker 3: should I say the mother's story. Good dun dun dun dudd.
36:15
Speaker 3: She attempts to go solo and try to kill Vader.
36:21
Speaker 3: Does not work. The next time we see her is
36:25
Speaker 3: she's on her knees and Vader's about to kill her,
36:30
Speaker 3: and anew, she gets pissed off, starts to use like
36:33
Speaker 3: force gimmicks and try to blast him with the blaster
36:36
Speaker 3: and all this other stuff. And then Vader pulls something
36:41
Speaker 3: that I actually got really excited about. He says, Hey,
36:48
Speaker 3: I thought I sensed you. I felt something poking my
36:54
Speaker 3: brain a little bit. Yeah, you're sensitive in the force,
36:58
Speaker 3: but you're weak and you can be stronger. You have
37:02
Speaker 3: a lot of hate, you have a lot of anger.
37:08
Speaker 3: Just kill your mother and we're good, Katie. Do you
37:16
Speaker 3: know what this means?
37:18
Speaker 2: What?
37:22
Speaker 3: In all of Cannon, we have not seen Vader attempt
37:34
Speaker 3: to have an apprentice other than Luke Skywalker. He has
37:44
Speaker 3: never attempted an apprentice. Yeah, this is the first showing
37:53
Speaker 3: in Cannon that Vader has attempted an apprentice.
37:58
Speaker 2: So you could have stark Hill, we can.
38:02
Speaker 3: Have star Killer, we can have whatever the canon version
38:09
Speaker 3: of stark Killer is, because it doesn't necessarily need to
38:13
Speaker 3: be stark Killer, which I do believe the fandom would
38:18
Speaker 3: go ape shit if it's not stark Killer. But the
38:23
Speaker 3: fact that they introduced the idea of an apprentice for
38:27
Speaker 3: Darth Vader this early on in his Sith career quote
38:34
Speaker 3: unquote got me really excited. I was like, oh, snap,
38:41
Speaker 3: I want to read that book.
38:43
Speaker 2: Oh I don't need any more Darth Vader chories.
38:51
Speaker 3: Oh wow, Adam Christopher just killed all the hype of
38:57
Speaker 3: Darth Vader for Katie with one the book.
39:01
Speaker 2: When this was announced, you and I were both like, hey,
39:05
Speaker 2: it's Adam Christopher. Will give it a shot, because we
39:08
Speaker 2: both enjoyed Shadow of the Sith. But when this was announced,
39:11
Speaker 2: we were like, what's the point. We got hyped when
39:15
Speaker 2: we found out it was Adam Christopher.
39:16
Speaker 3: We got hyped, but we we did maybe overhype ourselves.
39:26
Speaker 2: Maybe a tad I think, because see this is where
39:30
Speaker 2: I'm like hit or miss. I think if it had
39:32
Speaker 2: been the back half of the Charles Soul comics. I
39:35
Speaker 2: think I would have felt a little bit better about
39:38
Speaker 2: this one, like before he gets Moostafart as his planet
39:42
Speaker 2: kind of thing with it being so early. The back
39:47
Speaker 2: half of the book pisses me off because I don't
39:55
Speaker 2: understand and this is like my main gripe and we
39:59
Speaker 2: have to talk about. Like I said, the middle of
40:01
Speaker 2: the book, guys, I have no problems with it. I
40:04
Speaker 2: love the exploration of the planets. I love the hype
40:07
Speaker 2: into God's I think the Uhlan's Star Almanac is hysterical.
40:13
Speaker 2: I love that bit. I think it really works as
40:16
Speaker 2: a whole. My problem lies in Vader battling the virgins,
40:25
Speaker 2: losing the Vergens comes out of the hole, and then
40:30
Speaker 2: the virgins goes back to guard the virgins, and then
40:34
Speaker 2: Vader battles the virgins again.
40:38
Speaker 3: And way, okay, now you're confusing me. Hold on, back
40:40
Speaker 3: it up, explain that again.
40:43
Speaker 2: So Vader takes Apo, goes into the ship, Yes, separates
40:52
Speaker 2: off from the clones, takes just Appo, goes to the hole.
40:57
Speaker 2: Vader climbs in said hole, battles virgins, Vader kind of
41:01
Speaker 2: loses virgins, comes out. Yes, Vader comes out yes, So
41:11
Speaker 2: then kind of the vergence does its thing, kind of
41:14
Speaker 2: manipulates things and then goes back to the whole after
41:19
Speaker 2: Vader leaves.
41:20
Speaker 3: I need to know if there is edits of this
41:26
Speaker 3: book that didn't make it into the book, because here's
41:29
Speaker 3: the thing we know, and we say we know, but
41:35
Speaker 3: in legends we have seen essence of the dark side
41:42
Speaker 3: and essence of like past seth lords embody individuals or
41:51
Speaker 3: be so stronge, be so strong that they are capable
41:55
Speaker 3: of projecting themselves onto the plane of existence to manipulate things, right,
42:03
Speaker 3: but they're able to keep their consciousness, they have motivations,
42:10
Speaker 3: they can do things. I will agree with you that
42:17
Speaker 3: the virgens, the Darth Vader virgins that has, you know,
42:24
Speaker 3: inside the Virgins portraying both Anakin and Darth Vader, and
42:28
Speaker 3: then outside the Virgins portraying Darth Vader. There is clearly
42:35
Speaker 3: no motivation and there is no sense of like an
42:40
Speaker 3: achievement that he is attempting to get done. And I
42:44
Speaker 3: think that's my issue is it's just a phantom.
42:50
Speaker 2: Yes, and we have like this virgence feels very much
42:56
Speaker 2: like what Vader faces on most of art between the
43:01
Speaker 2: bleeding of the crystal and then the end when he's
43:04
Speaker 2: building his palace on top of the dark Side energy.
43:09
Speaker 2: It wasn't called a virgins at that point because virgens
43:11
Speaker 2: is didn't exist, But it's basically a virgence.
43:14
Speaker 3: Yeah.
43:14
Speaker 2: Thing he goes through very much the same battles we have,
43:21
Speaker 2: but we have seen previously that the Virgins is all
43:24
Speaker 2: kind of act different, kind of depending on where you're at.
43:29
Speaker 2: Virgins created the twins in the Acolyte, the Virgins on
43:35
Speaker 2: Kashik with the brochure trees and stuff. I don't know
43:39
Speaker 2: if that's technically a virgence anyways.
43:42
Speaker 3: I think it could be, but yeah.
43:46
Speaker 2: But my point is, I guess is that the Virginss
43:50
Speaker 2: are strictly a power source basically at the end of
43:55
Speaker 2: the day. It's not clear if they or walked away
43:59
Speaker 2: with that power at the end or because the Virgins disappears.
44:04
Speaker 3: So here's here's here's the thing though, and this is
44:07
Speaker 3: where we're going into the very end of this book.
44:11
Speaker 3: He did it was didn't like it. It was the
44:17
Speaker 3: sith holocron.
44:26
Speaker 2: There's a sith holocron. How did I miss that? Into
44:29
Speaker 2: two reads?
44:30
Speaker 3: So at the very end he goes to they don't
44:34
Speaker 3: call it a sith holocron, but the way that it
44:37
Speaker 3: is described, he hands it because because him and Oppo
44:42
Speaker 3: go into the Emperor's room, Vader goes directly past everybody,
44:50
Speaker 3: looks out into the windows, and then turns around and
44:55
Speaker 3: just hands over this triangle, this red triangle with with
45:04
Speaker 3: scribes and ruins on it to Emperor Palpaty. It's a
45:13
Speaker 3: sith holocron. He did get the power. It was mocking him,
45:23
Speaker 3: and so like you, you're right, there was no in
45:27
Speaker 3: the actual like moments where Vader was fighting quote unquote himself,
45:37
Speaker 3: there is no like you believe that there is just
45:41
Speaker 3: this secret this like actual force power, because that's what
45:49
Speaker 3: the synopsis and kind of the way the story makes
45:54
Speaker 3: you feel that Darth Vader is attempting to like get
46:00
Speaker 3: is this power. But when you actually read it and
46:07
Speaker 3: you realize that the secret to this force energy, darkseide, whatever,
46:17
Speaker 3: it's just a holocross, and it makes you kind of believe,
46:25
Speaker 3: Like we read the High Republic book with that Darth
46:31
Speaker 3: uh what's his name, that's what it reminded me of,
46:36
Speaker 3: with like the where he's trying to get to the
46:39
Speaker 3: very center or whatever. It literally reminded me of that book.
46:48
Speaker 3: I completely ruined Katie's night. I'm so sorry.
46:56
Speaker 2: I don't understand how I didn't understand that that was.
47:01
Speaker 3: Don't worry Katie. The first read or the second read.
47:08
Speaker 3: I didn't realize that there was a whole freaking prologue
47:11
Speaker 3: with Count Dooku on my second read. On my second read,
47:14
Speaker 3: I was like, wait, why am I reading all this
47:17
Speaker 3: stuff with Count Dooku. I must have accidentally skipped it
47:20
Speaker 3: on my first read, which is why I was so
47:24
Speaker 3: advocating towards like, hey, you can still understand how this
47:27
Speaker 3: goes down without the prologue because I did the first time.
47:31
Speaker 2: We might have to revisit this review, Like we might
47:34
Speaker 2: have to just like completely skip the end of this
47:38
Speaker 2: and then revisit this because I'm like dumbfounded right now.
47:42
Speaker 3: So Katie's entire idea of what she thought about this
47:46
Speaker 3: book was the lack of information when the information was
47:52
Speaker 3: actually there, Folks, this is why baby brain is a
47:57
Speaker 3: real thing. Guys for one and two slowed down on
48:04
Speaker 3: the speed reads, girl, Like.
48:07
Speaker 2: Okay, you can see is my speed reading fault. I
48:14
Speaker 2: completely read that he tossed a brick. It basically was like,
48:20
Speaker 2: here's your temple, like he Vader found a brick from
48:27
Speaker 2: the temple and brought it back to Palpatin.
48:30
Speaker 3: That's what I.
48:30
Speaker 2: Thought it was, and I was like, cool, great way
48:34
Speaker 2: to mess with him. I guess, I don't know. Okay,
48:39
Speaker 2: So there's Goth's chapter. I'm literally going back.
48:42
Speaker 3: Yeah, he says Vader tossed the stone down onto the
48:45
Speaker 3: daz in front of the Emperor's feet. It hit the
48:48
Speaker 3: floor with a metallic thud. Metallic thud, which yep, that
48:53
Speaker 3: sounded somehow too loud for the size. Here is your temple,
48:58
Speaker 3: said Vader. And this is kind of like an appo's
49:03
Speaker 3: like perspective. So he says that, you know, Palpatine was
49:11
Speaker 3: laughing to a city of blah blah, and then yeah,
49:17
Speaker 3: that's it, Like, but he did say that Vader's cloak
49:21
Speaker 3: shifted and pulled something out of the from underneath it,
49:24
Speaker 3: and when his gauntlet handed his gauntlet hand emerged, it
49:28
Speaker 3: was holding an oblong piece of stone. A oh, says,
49:32
Speaker 3: a rectangular brick of dress material that had been splin
49:36
Speaker 3: along one side to form a sharp triangle shard. So
49:42
Speaker 3: it's a holocron.
49:47
Speaker 2: Okay. So I scrolled back to the chapter where he
49:53
Speaker 2: fights the merchants and stuff, and he talks like it
49:56
Speaker 2: talks about like how the temple is. He was back
50:00
Speaker 2: in the central chamber of the temple, but something was
50:03
Speaker 2: very different. There's no mention.
50:07
Speaker 3: Of him grabbing it. Yeah, no, no, no, But that's the thing.
50:10
Speaker 3: It's supposed to be a clever uha. You're supposed to
50:14
Speaker 3: think that he failed. That's the point. The point is
50:19
Speaker 3: that because again it even plays along with that detail
50:23
Speaker 3: with Anusha. Anusha is like getting inside of his head,
50:28
Speaker 3: is like, oh, Vader is scared this power that he
50:32
Speaker 3: can't control. Because they're all thinking of this like omnipotent thing,
50:42
Speaker 3: we as the reader are also thinking that this power
50:45
Speaker 3: he is trying to grasp is a physical manifestation of
50:50
Speaker 3: the dark Side, which technically a dark Side holocron or
50:58
Speaker 3: sith holocron is a physical manifestation, but we think of
51:02
Speaker 3: it as like actual force power, not a Seth holocron.
51:11
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're gonna have to come back to the end
51:13
Speaker 2: of this book because I'm gonna have to reread the
51:15
Speaker 2: entire thing knowing that that's a holochron. What the fuck?
51:22
Speaker 2: Because this can literally knowing that it's a holochron. I
51:26
Speaker 2: legitimately have no idea how I miss that.
51:29
Speaker 3: Well now I well, not only that, now we have
51:34
Speaker 3: to read, or like you don't even have to read.
51:38
Speaker 3: I would tell everybody who reads this book to now
51:41
Speaker 3: glance at Charles Soul's book and see when the holocron appears,
51:52
Speaker 3: because there is a red holocron in that secret portion
51:57
Speaker 3: of the library. You need to know when it appears.
52:08
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, my brain hurts, y'all. And I'm child
52:18
Speaker 2: three this weekend, my whole entire second read through this book.
52:22
Speaker 2: Matt is home dealing with the sick child, and I'm
52:24
Speaker 2: away for the weekend. Like you would think that my
52:27
Speaker 2: brain's on point. I read that chapter because I wanted
52:31
Speaker 2: to make sure that I knew what I was talking about.
52:33
Speaker 2: I reread it twice on my second read because I
52:37
Speaker 2: knew that it had still pissed me off. And now
52:42
Speaker 2: Clay is telling me that maybe I didn't need to
52:44
Speaker 2: be pissed off. Oh my gosh, Hey, it it is
52:50
Speaker 2: what it is.
52:52
Speaker 3: It's It's not a bad thing. But this is a
52:58
Speaker 3: clear indicator for any and all those who are jealous
53:03
Speaker 3: of Katie's speed reading. Just be careful with it. It's
53:08
Speaker 3: a superpower, but it definitely so I will say this,
53:16
Speaker 3: I need to double check. Currently I am looking at
53:24
Speaker 3: issue Oh crap, what issue was this? Uh? Issue number eight? Okay,
53:31
Speaker 3: I need to look at the issues prior to issue five.
53:38
Speaker 3: But issue number eight there it is the Sith holocron.
53:44
Speaker 2: But right, but that's in the Jedi temple where they
53:48
Speaker 2: hadn't explored yet. Ducasta opens that for the first time.
53:57
Speaker 3: Does she open it for the first time?
53:59
Speaker 2: Yeah, because that droid standing there.
54:02
Speaker 3: Oh that's true.
54:04
Speaker 2: Oh hold on, like, hey, Anakin, like you're not supposed
54:07
Speaker 2: to be.
54:08
Speaker 3: Here, that's true. Hold on hmm. Okay, so here's something else.
54:18
Speaker 2: So my other proof that is Moment's mask is in
54:21
Speaker 2: there and in the I think it's like issue twelve.
54:28
Speaker 2: Palpatine goes, oh, I'm so proud that you found this
54:31
Speaker 2: because there are so many Sith artifacts here that we
54:33
Speaker 2: can add to our collection and learn.
54:37
Speaker 3: So okay. So I've always thought, and this this is
54:41
Speaker 3: something that can feed into my my tinfoil hat theory
54:47
Speaker 3: is I've always thought Palpatine does have the ability to
54:52
Speaker 3: get into that portion of the library, and that it's
54:55
Speaker 3: a test for Vader.
54:57
Speaker 2: I don't think he did, because the Jedi were very
55:01
Speaker 2: secretive about that. And yes, he knew that the Jedi
55:06
Speaker 2: had the list of the children, but he didn't know
55:10
Speaker 2: that it had been entrusted to Joe Costa, who hid
55:13
Speaker 2: it in that area. Otherwise he probably would have had
55:17
Speaker 2: people searching for it in Okay area.
55:20
Speaker 3: So a little flaw on my theory, a little flaw,
55:26
Speaker 3: But the fact that around that time they were looking
55:31
Speaker 3: for Sith artifacts does definitely tell you like, hey, yeah,
55:36
Speaker 3: this is a sith holocron. What sith holocron do we
55:47
Speaker 3: think that is? You know? Like and again like I
55:52
Speaker 3: don't know if this like I will definitely allow you
55:57
Speaker 3: to reread it again you get a new perspective. But
56:03
Speaker 3: does this change the way that you think about the
56:06
Speaker 3: book in the sense of, you know, the fact that hey,
56:11
Speaker 3: there is an answer when you thought there wasn't one.
56:17
Speaker 2: Yes, I think so, because my whole point was like, hey,
56:21
Speaker 2: the virgins just kind of disappears into nothing, like that
56:26
Speaker 2: hole is not there?
56:28
Speaker 3: No, no, no, I still think that there is a
56:30
Speaker 3: little flaw in like the motivations of the virgins. If
56:35
Speaker 3: you're going to bring it out to have like some
56:37
Speaker 3: sort of identity. It still lacked motivation. There was no
56:44
Speaker 3: there was nothing there other than like, oh I'm a ghost,
56:47
Speaker 3: I'm gonna trick people, ha ha ha, Like there's nothing there.
56:51
Speaker 3: And I do think that maybe there was some things
56:53
Speaker 3: that Adam Christopher may have had to like take out
56:56
Speaker 3: of the book or whatnot.
56:58
Speaker 2: So I'm curious, yeah, because I do think the Virgins's
57:03
Speaker 2: whole point was to be a testing point for Vader.
57:07
Speaker 2: I mean, like that's like the conversations that he has
57:10
Speaker 2: basically with him and everything. But yeah, him stepping out
57:16
Speaker 2: the Virgins, stepping outside of itself and becoming a form
57:22
Speaker 2: but then reverting back didn't make a whole lot of
57:26
Speaker 2: sense to me. I do like that he kept it
57:28
Speaker 2: consistent where the droids could not see him, so like
57:32
Speaker 2: even Keel for instance, when Sarnath has control of him,
57:36
Speaker 2: Sarnath can't see the Virgins. He's like, what are you
57:41
Speaker 2: talking about? Why did you order the droid to shoot
57:43
Speaker 2: because there's nothing there? You're dumb? Like I did like
57:48
Speaker 2: that portion of it, I really do. I have always
57:52
Speaker 2: enjoyed the st Droid series in Clone Wars, so it
57:56
Speaker 2: was nice to kind of see that translated to a book.
58:00
Speaker 2: Form and kind of be utilized here because I do
58:02
Speaker 2: think they were underutilized in Clone Warsh and so I
58:07
Speaker 2: thought that made for an interesting twist. Again, I did
58:11
Speaker 2: not have a single problem with the middle three quarters
58:14
Speaker 2: of the book. It was the front part where I
58:17
Speaker 2: kind of slogged through. That was really my only problem
58:19
Speaker 2: with the front part, and then the back one. I
58:22
Speaker 2: didn't understand the ending. I had already I had already
58:28
Speaker 2: sent Clay a topic for us to talk about, like
58:32
Speaker 2: with comparing the crystal bleeding scene between the comic and
58:37
Speaker 2: the book, because I think that would be interesting. So
58:40
Speaker 2: we will probably tack on a rediscussion of the ending
58:43
Speaker 2: to that.
58:45
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, for sure. One thing that we haven't really
58:50
Speaker 3: discussed is what I would think is our main character
58:55
Speaker 3: of this book being Goth. You mentioned that you really
59:02
Speaker 3: enjoyed his character because of the idea of he does
59:06
Speaker 3: have this long form sickness he's looking for some sort
59:09
Speaker 3: of cure. One thing that I wanted to bring up.
59:16
Speaker 3: And I know we're probably getting way into like spoilers
59:19
Speaker 3: territory more so than we do other books, But I
59:22
Speaker 3: think this is a fun discussion either way. How do
59:25
Speaker 3: you feel because this is kind of like one of
59:31
Speaker 3: those things in Star Wars that like keeps like they
59:39
Speaker 3: when I say they, Lucasfilm, whoever is in charge of publishing,
59:43
Speaker 3: like just Star Wars in general, keeping the identity of
59:48
Speaker 3: Darth Vader is like supposed to be this big deal
59:53
Speaker 3: in Star Wars war but we actually have a cacharacter
1:00:00
Speaker 3: characters that find out who Darth Vader is. How did
1:00:10
Speaker 3: you feel about that? And should it be so much
1:00:13
Speaker 3: of a secret? Like is this going to be the
1:00:18
Speaker 3: thing in Star Wars that keeps getting retconned? Like, oh,
1:00:24
Speaker 3: there is people who know.
1:00:29
Speaker 2: So you have not read the A New Hope to
1:00:35
Speaker 2: ESB Darth Vader series, and you have not read es
1:00:38
Speaker 2: B to Return of the Jedi. No, it has been
1:00:46
Speaker 2: a while since I've read those, so I don't want
1:00:48
Speaker 2: to tell you anything differently, but I do believe it
1:00:52
Speaker 2: kind of still remains a thing where Vader tries to
1:00:58
Speaker 2: kill anyone who knows that he's Anakin Skywalker. Yeah, I
1:01:04
Speaker 2: don't think they try to retcon that out.
1:01:09
Speaker 3: Not necessarily retcon, but like they they keep bringing more
1:01:13
Speaker 3: and more people into discovering or finding out that he
1:01:19
Speaker 3: is Anakin Skywalker. Is it something that like is it
1:01:28
Speaker 3: a well that's going to become a little too dry
1:01:32
Speaker 3: when it comes to plot.
1:01:36
Speaker 2: I don't think so, because I feel like it just
1:01:38
Speaker 2: brings another of depth to that character, so that we know, Okay, hey,
1:01:45
Speaker 2: this is a really dangerous thing for them to know.
1:01:48
Speaker 2: If Vader keeps them alive, it's because it's like maybe
1:01:52
Speaker 2: a glimmer of hope that Anakin Skywalker is still there.
1:01:56
Speaker 2: Like in the ESB two return of the Jedi comic series,
1:02:03
Speaker 2: Stabe comes back in that Sabe recognizes some different things
1:02:10
Speaker 2: that Vader says and kind of puts together, hey, this
1:02:13
Speaker 2: is Anakin Skywalker, and ultimately she starts working with Vader
1:02:17
Speaker 2: because she knows that her mistress would want him supported
1:02:24
Speaker 2: and thought that at the end of the day that
1:02:26
Speaker 2: Anakin was doing the right thing. Basically he's doing the
1:02:30
Speaker 2: he's doing the wrong thing for the right reasons kind
1:02:32
Speaker 2: of vibe. So, and Vader chooses to keep her alive
1:02:38
Speaker 2: because she looks like godme like so that sort of
1:02:42
Speaker 2: thing that that is one.
1:02:43
Speaker 3: You're right, because I started that series, but I haven't
1:02:47
Speaker 3: finished it.
1:02:48
Speaker 2: I have not either. I've heard bits and pieces, but
1:02:51
Speaker 2: I had gotten to the point where Sabe had kind
1:02:53
Speaker 2: of figured out, hey, this is Anakin.
1:02:55
Speaker 3: Mm hmm. Yeah. So going along with kind of this
1:03:04
Speaker 3: topic of Darth Vader with Goth, you know, Goth's motivation
1:03:11
Speaker 3: throughout this entire book is, Hey, I'm dying. Anakin was
1:03:18
Speaker 3: dying and now he's not. I need the same treatment.
1:03:25
Speaker 3: What do we do to get me to stay alive.
1:03:29
Speaker 2: I don't think Goth actually recognizes that Vader is Anakin
1:03:36
Speaker 2: until like the very end, Like even though the shaman
1:03:41
Speaker 2: says Annie and like, oh.
1:03:43
Speaker 3: No, no, like that stuff, he doesn't. He doesn't understand it.
1:03:45
Speaker 3: Then he does understand it when TC ninety nine shows
1:03:49
Speaker 3: him the footage.
1:03:51
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I don't think like he put together even
1:03:53
Speaker 2: at that point that it was Anakin skylooker like. I
1:03:56
Speaker 2: think he has like thoughts, but he knows. Okay, Vader
1:03:59
Speaker 2: was badly injured and he's being kept alive in this suit,
1:04:02
Speaker 2: So I need to be his friend so he can
1:04:04
Speaker 2: give me a suit to stay alive.
1:04:07
Speaker 3: Okay, Okay, yeah, yeah, that was my.
1:04:10
Speaker 2: Thought process with it. Is that regard?
1:04:14
Speaker 3: Well, so my question to you is, because I have
1:04:18
Speaker 3: my answer, Okay, was there ever a point in this
1:04:23
Speaker 3: book were you considered, hey, God has a chance. Nope, Okay, good,
1:04:39
Speaker 3: And that's the right answer.
1:04:41
Speaker 2: I think. I think that's maybe because I'm a cynic
1:04:46
Speaker 2: at heart with my own issues. Maybe if this was
1:04:50
Speaker 2: five years ago, me before my brains, you would have
1:04:53
Speaker 2: gotten a different response because at that point I was
1:04:55
Speaker 2: a little more positive. Now I'm like, everybody's kind of
1:04:58
Speaker 2: stuck with what they've got.
1:05:00
Speaker 3: I I had so when when while reading this, I'm like, man,
1:05:09
Speaker 3: this sucks. This dude has this sickness, which I'm I'm
1:05:15
Speaker 3: not familiar with the illnesses of the Star Wars galaxy
1:05:21
Speaker 3: was new, so this disease, Yeah, I thought that was
1:05:25
Speaker 3: very interesting.
1:05:27
Speaker 2: I think he took it and kind of spun like fibromyalgia,
1:05:30
Speaker 2: because fibromyalgia is a pain condition, and so he just
1:05:34
Speaker 2: kind of took it and modified it for the.
1:05:37
Speaker 3: Star Wars universe. Yeah. Yeah, I thought this was very interesting,
1:05:42
Speaker 3: and I was like, Okay, there is a motivation to
1:05:45
Speaker 3: keep going, and of course there is these like uh,
1:05:50
Speaker 3: there's like a a temporary fix with this nitro injection. Yeah,
1:05:57
Speaker 3: soul nitro that TC is in charge of distributing for him.
1:06:04
Speaker 3: He's like, hey, eventually we're gonna run out of these.
1:06:06
Speaker 3: We need a long term fix. We need Vader to
1:06:09
Speaker 3: help me get that long term fix. And while reading this,
1:06:14
Speaker 3: I was like, I don't know, man, like I need
1:06:18
Speaker 3: Darth Vader to still be Darth Vader. And so when
1:06:24
Speaker 3: you ask for help, I either need complete silence or
1:06:31
Speaker 3: you know, a lightsaber to the head, Like I that's
1:06:35
Speaker 3: what I need. Now. What I got was very interesting.
1:06:41
Speaker 3: What we got.
1:06:41
Speaker 2: I thought it was a lot better than any of
1:06:45
Speaker 2: those two possibilities, because God comes to the realization, Hey,
1:06:49
Speaker 2: you know what, there's enough. I can't live with myself
1:06:52
Speaker 2: if I have to do these things to innocent people
1:06:55
Speaker 2: at the end of the day, now.
1:06:57
Speaker 3: At the very end, Yes, that's his result. Before that, though,
1:07:02
Speaker 3: a few chapters before that, he goes to Vader and
1:07:06
Speaker 3: he's like, this is what I need from you because
1:07:10
Speaker 3: I still want to serve. And I think that's like
1:07:12
Speaker 3: the title of the chapter is, I want to serve.
1:07:17
Speaker 3: And he gives like this really long monologue and Vader's like,
1:07:22
Speaker 3: I like you. The Empire needs more people like you.
1:07:27
Speaker 3: And I'm like, oh, Vader, yeah.
1:07:30
Speaker 2: See, I didn't even think it that part because TC
1:07:34
Speaker 2: had already been like, dude, your body has adapted too much,
1:07:37
Speaker 2: like you literally have.
1:07:39
Speaker 3: Days at this month. Yeah, yeah, I there was a
1:07:43
Speaker 3: small inkling of hey, this might work, but only for
1:07:50
Speaker 3: the advantage of the Emperor Invader. So that's the only
1:07:55
Speaker 3: reason why Vader would ever help him. Yeah. Now at
1:07:58
Speaker 3: the end when he is finally just about to collapse
1:08:04
Speaker 3: and tells Vader like, f you, I could not be
1:08:08
Speaker 3: you like you, and again like there's this this is
1:08:14
Speaker 3: still very early on in the Empire. I will say
1:08:17
Speaker 3: that very early on in the Empire. I think there
1:08:20
Speaker 3: is some people who are still yet to really understand
1:08:23
Speaker 3: what the empire is at this point of the Empire.
1:08:27
Speaker 3: So when he's yelling at Darth Vader like we're supposed
1:08:32
Speaker 3: to be like peaceful and save the galaxy and all
1:08:35
Speaker 3: this other stuff, I'm over here like rolling my eyes,
1:08:38
Speaker 3: like come on, man, you're a part of the Empire,
1:08:40
Speaker 3: Like do you really think like that's what's going to
1:08:43
Speaker 3: go down.
1:08:44
Speaker 2: I think that goes back to Kopnor too at the beginning,
1:08:47
Speaker 2: which was like also something that was kind of like
1:08:51
Speaker 2: introduced and not like fully expanded upon, but like ultimately
1:08:56
Speaker 2: because like I feel like this is new, it makes since,
1:09:00
Speaker 2: but at the same time it's isb Supervisor Desler who
1:09:06
Speaker 2: introduces it and is like, yeah, we're one of the
1:09:10
Speaker 2: last generations to fight for the New Republic and then
1:09:14
Speaker 2: one of the first generation to fight for the Empire,
1:09:17
Speaker 2: like we are one of a kind. Basically, I didn't
1:09:22
Speaker 2: think that made a whole lot of sense because Compronore
1:09:25
Speaker 2: was like for the preservation of the New Republic kind
1:09:31
Speaker 2: of thing for the Empire, and I was like, you've
1:09:37
Speaker 2: been around for how long and we've already got an
1:09:40
Speaker 2: organization to protect the Empire. But like, also you think
1:09:44
Speaker 2: about it and you're like, Okay, well, the isb spun
1:09:46
Speaker 2: up so quickly, like Palpatine had all this stuff in
1:09:49
Speaker 2: the works, so I didn't really have late. I thought
1:09:53
Speaker 2: it was interesting and I questioned it. But also at
1:09:55
Speaker 2: the same time, Palpatine spun up a lot of things
1:09:59
Speaker 2: very quickly.
1:10:00
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I I like, overall, I still enjoyed this book. Again,
1:10:11
Speaker 3: our hype around this book was the deepest, darkest secrets
1:10:16
Speaker 3: of the dark Side. We're gonna see all of these
1:10:19
Speaker 3: dark side Yeah, we're gonna see dark Side ghosts and
1:10:23
Speaker 3: like all this other stuff, which technically we did. We
1:10:26
Speaker 3: we we saw like a somewhat of a ghost, a
1:10:30
Speaker 3: Phantom is more of what I would call him, but like,
1:10:37
Speaker 3: what did we like one of my theories like, oh,
1:10:40
Speaker 3: we're gonna see Aslin, Like we're gonna like, oh my god,
1:10:43
Speaker 3: like this if if this is an inkling of what
1:10:46
Speaker 3: we're gonna see in because that's what like, you know,
1:10:49
Speaker 3: enough time has passed the you know, with Trials of
1:10:51
Speaker 3: the Jedi. I was like, holy crap, this chapter is
1:10:55
Speaker 3: like the birth of like this new generation of Sith.
1:10:58
Speaker 3: This is gonna be amazing. I hope this kind of
1:11:00
Speaker 3: leads into Master of Evil and no, like that's not
1:11:04
Speaker 3: what it is. And I think that we need to
1:11:07
Speaker 3: start adjusting expectations. These are two books in a row,
1:11:14
Speaker 3: not saying that we now have to do this with
1:11:16
Speaker 3: every book and be like, hey, you guys, are you
1:11:20
Speaker 3: know Strike two? You know it's nothing like that, But
1:11:26
Speaker 3: I do like because one thing that I immediately noticed
1:11:31
Speaker 3: after our review of Last Order was more Star Wars
1:11:37
Speaker 3: accounts promoting Last Order but saying, hey, for those of
1:11:43
Speaker 3: you who are wanting a post Rise of Skywalker story,
1:11:48
Speaker 3: be cautious, this isn't what you think like And so
1:11:52
Speaker 3: I am just curious if Lucasfilm Publishing is going to
1:11:57
Speaker 3: be aware of what we the fans are saying here.
1:12:02
Speaker 2: Well, and I think too with the Hunt for Ben
1:12:05
Speaker 2: Solo news that kind of we talked about this past
1:12:10
Speaker 2: week and we'll probably no, we're not talking about next
1:12:13
Speaker 2: week because Visions is going to take a ton of time. Yes,
1:12:17
Speaker 2: not in like a bad way, but it's just going
1:12:19
Speaker 2: to take a long time.
1:12:20
Speaker 3: Guys.
1:12:20
Speaker 2: I know, I said butt Ton, but I had to
1:12:24
Speaker 2: make that through. Okay, I'm very excited for Visions Volume three,
1:12:29
Speaker 2: but I think the Hunt for Ben Solo maybe all
1:12:33
Speaker 2: of this is kind of like a testing ground to
1:12:36
Speaker 2: kind of see how things are related because just publicity,
1:12:41
Speaker 2: you're not changing the content of the book, or at
1:12:42
Speaker 2: least I'm assuming you're not changing the content of the
1:12:44
Speaker 2: book to fit kind of the vibe you're looking for,
1:12:50
Speaker 2: but publicity is definitely something that I think needs to
1:12:53
Speaker 2: kind of be looked at. And we go, Okay, how
1:12:56
Speaker 2: truthful is this at the end of the day, because
1:12:58
Speaker 2: you don't want to mislaid readers. That is a way
1:13:01
Speaker 2: to alienate them. Ye, and again that's not Adam Christopher's fault.
1:13:11
Speaker 2: That's the publishers M Lucasfilm Story Group. At the end
1:13:16
Speaker 2: of the day. I just want to say, at the
1:13:19
Speaker 2: end of the day, no matter what happened with this book,
1:13:23
Speaker 2: I did enjoy most of it. I'm gonna have to
1:13:27
Speaker 2: re explore my feelings and reread to really feel how
1:13:32
Speaker 2: about I feel about the entirety of the book?
1:13:35
Speaker 3: Well, and oh, you know, because like for me when
1:13:40
Speaker 3: I read this, especially with how this book presents itself
1:13:46
Speaker 3: the cover, the like Kathulhu esque evil, like this is
1:13:52
Speaker 3: supposed to be a horror book. Yeah, when you get
1:13:55
Speaker 3: down to the themes in this book, they all match.
1:13:59
Speaker 3: They are all there. Now the synopsis gets a little
1:14:03
Speaker 3: away from us a little bit, yep, but from a
1:14:07
Speaker 3: certain point of view, it's that so I still enjoyed this.
1:14:14
Speaker 3: I would like to hear other thoughts. Honestly, it has
1:14:20
Speaker 3: been a while since I have sat down and listened
1:14:23
Speaker 3: to somebody else's review on a Star Wars book. I
1:14:30
Speaker 3: think this is going to be one that I'm actually
1:14:32
Speaker 3: going to be actively going to see and listen to
1:14:37
Speaker 3: other people's idea of what this book is.
1:14:41
Speaker 2: Knowing because I typically go readwritten reviews of the books afterwards,
1:14:47
Speaker 2: just because I can process those a little bit better,
1:14:50
Speaker 2: but knowing that I need to revisit my own thoughts.
1:14:54
Speaker 2: I will probably hold off on doing that until after
1:14:58
Speaker 2: I have kind of finalized things at least, so good
1:15:02
Speaker 2: idea this is. I will say, this is the first
1:15:06
Speaker 2: book that I've had issues reading apparently like so, and
1:15:14
Speaker 2: don't get me wrong again, I love Star Wars books.
1:15:17
Speaker 2: I read very quickly and I know that, which is
1:15:19
Speaker 2: why I was. On the first read through, I was like, Okay,
1:15:21
Speaker 2: I need a second read. Like we delayed this. We
1:15:23
Speaker 2: were originally supposed to record this Sunday, and I totally
1:15:26
Speaker 2: I was like, we need I need to delay this
1:15:28
Speaker 2: because I really knew a second read. And at least
1:15:31
Speaker 2: I can say that I read it twice and somehow
1:15:34
Speaker 2: missed that there was a holochron at the end twice.
1:15:40
Speaker 3: Well, no, And I think it's more so the fact
1:15:42
Speaker 3: that your problem wasn't the end of the book. Your
1:15:45
Speaker 3: problem was the mystery of the virgins, and the holocron
1:15:51
Speaker 3: is not really answered, or the holocron isn't even the
1:15:55
Speaker 3: answer to what you were confused about in the first place.
1:15:58
Speaker 3: It's just a aha result that you just gleamed over.
1:16:03
Speaker 3: And that is you know, it can happen to the
1:16:07
Speaker 3: best of us.
1:16:08
Speaker 2: But it may answer my question too with the mrgents.
1:16:11
Speaker 3: So yeah, which, by the way, guys, I do think
1:16:15
Speaker 3: that although there is a lot of newer things coming
1:16:22
Speaker 3: out for the idea of like hey like because like
1:16:26
Speaker 3: we said at the very beginning of this review, the
1:16:28
Speaker 3: teetering of the characterization of Darth Vader, does he lean
1:16:32
Speaker 3: towards being a not so bad guy versus a very
1:16:37
Speaker 3: evil person. Although I don't like those topics in a
1:16:43
Speaker 3: Star Wars book, the one thing that I do like
1:16:48
Speaker 3: is I'm just gonna not censor myself here fucking with
1:16:54
Speaker 3: Vader's head, with the uh, with his with his past.
1:16:59
Speaker 3: That's that's what this book is really about. It's about
1:17:01
Speaker 3: Vader's past, and so when we see the dark side
1:17:07
Speaker 3: manifests itself into his past, I love all of that
1:17:13
Speaker 3: because it really gets into his head and it motivates
1:17:16
Speaker 3: him even more to be the evil Darth Vader that
1:17:18
Speaker 3: we all know and love. So yeah, but yeah, I
1:17:23
Speaker 3: think that is it for This review went on actually
1:17:28
Speaker 3: a little bit longer than I thought it would.
1:17:30
Speaker 2: I thought it was too, but it was probably because
1:17:33
Speaker 2: I was dumb outed.
1:17:36
Speaker 3: So I'm so glad I will probably grab that little
1:17:41
Speaker 3: snippet and that will be our social media for the week.
1:17:46
Speaker 3: The fact that you were kind of just like wait, what,
1:17:49
Speaker 3: like that was golden. I love that a lot when
1:17:53
Speaker 3: you see.
1:17:54
Speaker 2: Like the camera zoom in on the person on the
1:17:56
Speaker 2: social meda and they're like, wait, what did you just say?
1:18:01
Speaker 3: It's so good. But yeah, guys, by the time you're
1:18:05
Speaker 3: listening to this, it is the embargo date is is here,
1:18:13
Speaker 3: but the release date is not. The release date for
1:18:17
Speaker 3: this book is as fer even thank you. I was
1:18:23
Speaker 3: literally picking it up here right on Penguin Random House.
1:18:26
Speaker 3: It is November eleventh. The guys, this is a hefty
1:18:29
Speaker 3: three hundred and eighty four page book, and I already
1:18:35
Speaker 3: have mine.
1:18:36
Speaker 2: Pre ordered, so I believe I have mine pre ordered.
1:18:40
Speaker 3: I have mine pre ordered. But like I showed Katie
1:18:44
Speaker 3: before we even started recording, there is an amazing book
1:18:51
Speaker 3: or a version of the book that has sprayed edges
1:18:57
Speaker 3: of a red lightsaber and and Darth Vader hovering a
1:19:01
Speaker 3: Kyper crystal.
1:19:04
Speaker 2: I need it.
1:19:06
Speaker 3: I don't need it. I don't need any of these, Okay,
1:19:11
Speaker 3: but do I want it?
1:19:14
Speaker 2: Hell?
1:19:14
Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe you know, so I'll I'll keep it bookmark
1:19:20
Speaker 3: and then if a day where I donate Plasma and
1:19:25
Speaker 3: I literally have nothing else to buy. I'm just like, Okay,
1:19:27
Speaker 3: I guess I have to buy it now, So that's
1:19:30
Speaker 3: what I'll do. But with that, guys, thank you so
1:19:33
Speaker 3: much for being here listening. Of course, you can follow
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Speaker 3: me at Fanboy Clay on any and all social media.
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Speaker 3: Please follow and like our Star Wars Alliance content over
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Speaker 3: on Instagram and Blue Sky and Threads as well as
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Speaker 3: if you're not already following the Geek Versus Alliance or
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Speaker 3: not Geek Verse Geek Ultimate Alliance Twitter account as well,
1:20:00
Speaker 3: so you can get updates on all of our shows. Yes, Katie,
1:20:05
Speaker 3: what about you, y'all?
1:20:06
Speaker 2: You can follow me on those social media platforms. It
1:20:08
Speaker 2: is at Slice of Katie. Remember, the show's account is
1:20:12
Speaker 2: linked in the description box below, but you can if
1:20:15
Speaker 2: you need me to say it here it goes. It's
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Speaker 2: Star Wars Alliance with no A in the Wars. Very important,
1:20:21
Speaker 2: don't forget it. That's also the username to our email
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Speaker 2: Star Wars Alliance no an the Wars at gmail dot com.
1:20:28
Speaker 2: So with that, guys, I hope you have a great
1:20:30
Speaker 2: day or name whatever coming day. You are listening and
1:20:33
Speaker 2: we will see you'll next time, May the Force be
1:20:35
Speaker 2: with you