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Mentor or Coach: How to build and nurture powerful work relationships · Unspoken Career Truths

• 0:00
  Welcome to Unspoken Career Truths.
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  I'm Lauren Levette Gilbert. And I'm Cara Wood and we're.
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  Here to be the coworkers you can trust.
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  This month we are talking about all our keepers, and so often
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  our keepers are actually just about like the people in your
• 0:16
  life who make a difference. We've covered community and
• 0:20
  teamwork, so definitely check out those episodes.
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  But today we are talking about mentors and coaches.
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  I love this topic. I just think it just brings a
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  smile to my face because I think of all of the mentors and people
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  I've had in my life that have helped me to come home today.
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  I know I loved even just kind of reflecting on this and planning
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  it out because I was thinking the same thing.
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  Any particular like advice or impact a mentors had on you?
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  My first ever boss who I would consider now like one of my best
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  friends. She gosh, I like, where did I
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  begin? She like really just made me the
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  professional I am today. Like she was the perfect example
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  of like what it means to be a good person, a good colleague,
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  like work really hard, ask thoughtful questions.
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  Like I still ask her stuff. I'm like, what would you do in
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  this situation? And she just has like all of
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  this wisdom and she I truly, truly credit her with like how I
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  present myself in settings, how I write emails, how I show up to
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  meetings, how I like treat other people in the professional
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  setting. Like she shaped so much of, of
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  who I am. And it's just so cool because
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  like, she was in my wedding party.
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  You know, like and yeah. She started as a boss, she's
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  still a mentor, but she's now like a best friend, so it's been
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  really cool to see that. And we're gonna talk about that,
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  how like the, I think the best mentors actually do become
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  friends. Like there's like an evolution
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  that you have. First person that came to mind
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  for me was actually my piano teacher that I started going to
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  when I was six years old. And, you know, so I was learning
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  piano from her, but so many things that she taught me about
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  like being a grown up and all these ways of just like living.
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  She, after becoming, you know, a pianist, she went on to be like
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  an amazing photographer. And it was just really cool to
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  like be inspired by someone who's living this artistic life
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  and kind of see that it was possible, as well as have her
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  take the time to show me a skill.
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  I love that. Yeah.
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  So the key of this episode really, we wanted to 1st
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  distinguish coaching from mentoring and then talk about
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  the scenarios when you need one of either a coach or a mentor,
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  when you need to be 1. And then how do you initiate and
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  then nurture these types of relationships?
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  I know we talk a lot about like, kind of like early in career
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  talent, like having a mentor. Finding a mentor I think is
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  really important. 100% it makes such a difference.
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  The stats on like the impact that mentors make.
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  There's one study that's 86% of CE OS say that their mentor is
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  the key reason that they were professionally successful.
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  And I think that it really makes a difference.
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  And the other kind of stat that I kept running into was how much
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  it meant to individuals to be mentors or managers when they
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  are acting as coaches instead of just bosses.
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  It's so much more fulfilling to their job.
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  And so it definitely is worth your time to sort of invest and
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  like reflect on these relationships.
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  So just a couple of definitions. Coaches.
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  Coaches are focused on an objective.
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  They're the people who help develop a specific skill to win
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  and achieve specific things. So often times these folks are
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  kind of time bound and there's a clear goal and it could be short
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  term, it could be in like a context specific.
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  So yeah, I mentioned my piano teacher already.
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  She was someone who was very skill specific.
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  It was like time bound. I'm guessing, Lauren, that maybe
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  your boss as well initially started out as someone who was
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  like caring about how you delivered on the work and a
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  coach. 100%, yeah, 'cause she was my first job, my my first
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  boss and my first ever job. Yeah.
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  And I was there for gosh, five years.
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  So that's it Definitely started more as like coaching and
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  helping you like figure out professional life.
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  Yeah. And then with mentors, they're
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  providing long term guidance. And one of the things that makes
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  a mentor, like key to a mentor is that they're helping you
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  develop as a person. They're not necessarily as
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  focused on a specific outcome. So when someone becomes a mentor
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  to you, there's someone who's going to sort of help you with
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  all of these big life questions, and not necessarily someone
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  who's like, let's get to point from point A to point BI.
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  Like that, I like that you're defining them too, because I
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  think finding a mentor, you need to look for maybe like a
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  different kind of person and or like a different kind of a
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  relationship that you might have.
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  Like, I asked a friend of mine to be a mentor a couple of years
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  ago, but it took me a while to like, find someone who I felt
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  fit. That, and it was more about like
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  me holistically than like the moment in time that I was from a
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  coaching perspective. 100%, I feel like there are coaches like
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  everywhere in your life. It's someone who already does
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  something well or recognize it as an honor, as a skill that you
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  have and can help you develop it.
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  Versus like mentors are rare because as you sort of already
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  said about your mentor, as someone who becomes a friend
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  over time, it's someone that you can bring any life problem to
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  often. And you really have these like
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  who am I developmental conversations.
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  They know you throughout the life.
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  Like it's so beautiful that she was like part of your wedding.
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  It's like this person has like seen you through so many things
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  and I feel like there's a lot of pressure.
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  I don't know, Lauren, did you have this where people kind of
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  say to you like find a mentor. Who are your mentors?
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  You need a mentor. And IT, when I was early in my
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  career, I felt a lot of like kind of pressure and confusion
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  around that because I had a lot of people in my life that were
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  giving me great advice and support.
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  There were people I would go to for different things, but I was
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  like, OK, wait, who's this magical person?
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  And like, how do I beg them to be a part of my life?
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  I think that's an absolutely excellent point.
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  I think I made a lot of mistakes when I was younger about like
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  picking a mentor because there is a lot of pressure.
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  People are like, oh, just get a mentor, It'll solve all your
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  problems. Like, and I'm like, well, what
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  does that mean? Who do I want to be my mentor?
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  And I focused more, I think at the time on someone who was a
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  coach versus a mentor. And for me, and I'd love your
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  opinion on this, my distinction is also really a mentor is
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  someone that you see how they live their life and you see how
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  they act and how they've made choices and how they've gotten
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  to where they are. And you respect that.
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  You want to understand it. You, you could see yourself kind
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  of not necessarily following a same path, but you have like
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  aligned values and it's, it's much more holistic versus like,
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  hey, like you are a great, I'm making this up sales leader and
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  I know I can learn from you, right?
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  And I think I I made that incorrect distinction when I was
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  younger. Absolutely.
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  For me, the values piece is huge and often times when I think
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  about mentors, it's I'm looking at someone who's achieved
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  something that I am in awe of, but it's not necessarily
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  something I also want to achieve.
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  It's just that, yeah, it's just that I'm like, wow, I can see
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  that they have like a presence. They share values that I have.
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  I feel comfortable around them. And all of those things help me
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  like see like, OK, this is someone that I want to like,
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  learn how they're like, you want to learn their skill set, like
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  not necessarily just like a one skill or help you hone a certain
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  skill. And their thought process like
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  like, like that's, that's how it started.
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  I was like, well, how would you think through this or like, how
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  would you approach this? Or like, even if they've never
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  done it in the past, they can use kind of their reasoning and
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  thinking about it. Yeah, I love that.
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  Like also like the whole how it started thing because I've had
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  people you said you'd like, you know, ask someone to be your
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  mentor. Like I've had people also be
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  like, oh, like I, I'm just going to go and ask someone to be a
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  mentor for me. And I, I, I have never had that
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  experience. But I, again, I've had many
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  mentors and I find that usually it begins with like a mutual
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  appreciation. Sometimes if they are further in
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  their career, they see something new.
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  Other times you just, you're sharing your admiration for what
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  they've already achieved and you have this like curiosity about
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  what they're doing. And then they're and you're you
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  ask them for their time. I, I think that's an absolutely
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  fantastic description. And don't be afraid to ask.
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  Like I was nervous, like I remember exactly where I was
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  when I asked, would I be my mentor?
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  Like walking in the hotel somewhere?
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  And I was like, would you be like interested in being my
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  mentor? And I, I felt like super awkward
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  because I'd never really like officially asked before.
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  This is like the second mentor I've ever had.
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  And just like, of course, I'd love that.
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  Let's let's set up some time. And I was like, OK, great.
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  Yeah, well, for those of you who are listening, there are some,
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  like, key things that you can do.
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  And it doesn't necessarily have to be the, like, ask them for
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  the whole enchilada of being your mentor.
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  You can start with just asking them for what you need and
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  telling them why and what you admire about them.
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  Like, I would love to learn more about how you did this.
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  Like, oh, you made this change. You, you know, you've built this
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  thing. I'd love to like spend time,
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  learn more and have a specific ask whether it's coffee, 10
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  minutes, 5 minutes, 15 minutes. Yeah, I was just going to say I
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  like, I like the like also pinpoint something about them or
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  something they've done or an example to be like, hey, I
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  really liked how you did this because it's also hard for other
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  people to receive information to be like, hey, where do I start?
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  But if you if you say, hey, can we get coffee so we can chat
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  about like how you decided to make a career switch or like
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  just come up with one thing and then after that it starts to
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  flow. But like, you want to make sure
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  that you also give them the opportunity to come to the table
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  with something to start the conversation.
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  Yeah, and I think it's also really important like often
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  times the best mentees are the ones who take the initiative to
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  plan and keep up communications. Someone who and I actually
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  reflecting on this episode, I realized she's now a friend.
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  But I think for a little while she was a mentee and she but she
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  did a great job of keeping in touch with me.
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  And every quarter we would have a plan and she would reach out
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  and we would make time. And initially our conversations
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  were a lot about her career, but it became something where now
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  we've shared so much. You know, I give her vacation
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  advice, She gives me so many different like piece of advice
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  on the things that she's expert in that we are just legitimately
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  friends now. But it was this like consistency
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  of continuous continuous thing to reach out.
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  I love that so much. Yeah.
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  And I think that's, that's the other thing too, like a lot of
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  us have imposter syndrome that like we could ever be a mentor
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  to someone. Or like, I mean, at least I, I
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  can claim for myself, I do like, but there's an opportunity for
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  potentially anyone listening to also be a mentor to other
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  people. Like be open to that.
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  You have a lot to give, no matter if you think so or not.
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  100%, I feel like as soon as you do something that other people
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  admire, like you're ready and you might not even have
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  reflected on what you did to get there.
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  But if you are someone who can like listen thoughtfully because
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  a lot of what mentorship is, is hearing what other people are
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  like dealing with and what they want to achieve.
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  Like remember again, the difference between a mentor and
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  a coach. A coach is helping you like get
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  to a goal. A mentor is just listening to
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  where you want your life to go and like, sharing and reporting
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  you through their values to show you what they've done and what
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  they've struggled with. Like, mentors can sort of admit
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  a lot of struggle, not that coaches can't, but coaches often
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  come with like, specific tools and like, you know, ways to
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  solve a problem. Mentors are sort of there with
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  you, like through the life stuff they don't have to have.
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  And I think it's. All the answers go ahead, yeah.
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  Yeah, no, I I completely agree with that.
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  And I think a trap I kind of fell into was it doesn't have to
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  be formal. Like I felt like it had to be
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  this like, you know, OK, in in the working world, if you work
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  in like corporate America or tech or something like you have
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  one-on-one. So I'm like when you get a
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  one-on-one with like a high level leader, it's like, OK, I
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  need to prepare something. I need to have questions.
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  I need to be ready. Like it doesn't have to be
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  formal. It can be a coffee chat to your
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  point car. It can be just a casual
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  conversation. Like don't get stuck in the I
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  need to prepare my five year life plan and have them to react
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  to it. That's not how this works.
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  It's really a an ongoing development conversation and
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  learning and listening. Yeah, exactly.
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  And like, I think being really like transparent about what
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  you're struggling with and then asking that person like how
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  would you think about this? What's your advice?
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  It's it really is you're just kind of building a friendship.
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  Another way to think about it or another thing to bring.
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  So we've talked about, you know, ask them, tell them what they
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  need, like share what you admire and then take the initiative and
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  just set up some regular communication and share what
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  you're going through and ask them for specifics.
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  Always respect their time and think about your own boundaries.
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  There may be things that you're like, these are the things that
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  I think they're going to help me with.
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  I'm not going to share, you know, other aspects of my life
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  right away or ever. And then to find ways to make it
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  like a beneficial partnership. So things that come up in
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  conversation, you might share interesting articles or like
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  books with them. You know, you you can think
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  about ways that you might collaborate on something.
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  There are just to your point around imposter syndrome.
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  There are always skills that you have that other people don't
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  have, even someone that you see as a mentor.
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  Yes, 1000% everybody has something to offer.
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  I mean, and I, I also think that's a really unique kind of
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  give and take in a, in a mentor relationship, right?
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  Where like you can say like, Hey, I want to learn about this.
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  And then if you see the other person like trying to dabble in
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  something or asking you a question, you can say like, Hey,
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  could I help you look into this or I can help you try it.
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  Or like, for example, my, one of my mentors really, really wanted
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  to get into kind of the podcasting world and that was my
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  expertise. And so I shared that level of
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  knowledge where she has more like broader experience and and
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  more kind of like entrepreneurial experience.
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  And so we asked about that. So also think about ways that to
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  your point, you can collaborate, you can provide perspective, you
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  can bring up a question to kind of talk about that topic that
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  could be relevant to both of you and have a discussion.
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  Yeah, it's so great. It's I totally agree with all of
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  that. And I'll just say back to like
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  the importance of it not being so formal.
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  One of the interesting things like so 91 more stat to bring up
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  90% of Fortune 500 companies have mentoring programs, like
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  formal mentoring programs because people know the value of
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  them, but only a third of the employees say they actually
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  benefit from those. So that kind of shows you when
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  you make it really formal, it's it's a shame for those of you.
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  That's a shame. Before it is making a sad face
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  yeah, it's it's a shame. And I think I, my diagnosis of
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  that is that it really isn't about having these formal one on
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  ones or anything like that. It really is kind of finding the
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  person that you can share with and become friends with.
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  And that doesn't always work inside of a structured office.
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  So we again, the theme of this is mentoring and coaching.
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  And so let's talk a little bit about when you are leadership.
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  Yeah, I personally, I think it's actually a really, really
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  powerful to coach and think of yourself as a coach and not
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  necessarily take on trying to like mentor all of your direct
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  reports. I would agree with that.
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  I would say when I had a team, I, I tried to be the coach,
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  right? Because you can't be the mentor
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  for everybody. You just, it's one like you
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  don't always mesh with everyone in that level.
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  Like it's a different relationship, but I think a
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  manager should always be a coach.
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  It really helps if you think of your entire team as one unit and
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  a full team and you are the coach that's helping to
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  highlight all of the key elements of each of your
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  employees so that they can be the best, their best selves, and
• 17:03
  then your team can work well. I think of it as as a team,
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  you're all moving towards one goal, but the best coaches know
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  what their each player does well.
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  So it's not that you're treating people as one unit, but that
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  you're recognizing the skills they have.
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  You're helping them grow either the skills they want to grow or
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  those strengths they already have, and then you're putting
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  them in those right positions. So like to use the sports
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  metaphor like, you know, who should the goal the goalie
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  should be who who should be on offense, I think.
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  Things like like Myers Briggs, I think we've talked about this in
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  the past, or like any of those kind of like personality tests
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  where you can understand how people think and how they work
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  is a great way of being able to use that analogy appropriately,
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  right? Like if you know, for example,
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  Cara, like you're very good at content writing and I'm very
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  good at like external speaking and I enjoy it and I don't
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  really like content writing. And you don't maybe maybe don't
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  like external speaking, then you know what opportunities to give
• 18:05
  those people on your team. And then maybe there's a growth
• 18:08
  area that I'm interested in and it's specifically aligned with a
• 18:12
  new project that's coming. It just helps you use your team
• 18:15
  in the best way that makes them feel fulfilled.
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  I love it when I get to self identify that instead of having
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  it be something that's prescribed for me by a
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  personality test, in part because as someone who is high
• 18:31
  test introverted, but there are times when I'm ready to take on
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  speaking roles. A good coach does a balance
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  where they see and they evaluate the skills of their team, but
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  then they listen to what their team members want to grow into.
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  And so sometimes you see someone who's like, not good at using
• 18:51
  their hands, they shouldn't be the goalie at all, but they
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  really, really want to be the goalie.
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  And if you work hard enough, you can become that goalie.
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  But they might be starting from a different place than the
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  person that is already sort of ready to be in that role.
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  So how do you, that's another challenge of being a coach man.
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  Manager is like, how do you balance that?
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  But yeah, there's all these different ways that you can
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  assess the people on your team, support them to grow into the
• 19:16
  players that they want to be. And I just think it's it's
• 19:19
  really valuable. Also, again, we've been talking
• 19:21
  about coach versus mentor to kind of know that that can be
• 19:24
  your role when you're a manager on a team.
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  And to your point, Lauren, you're not always going to gel
• 19:31
  enough to become everyone's mentor.
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  They're maybe not even going to respect your values in the same
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  way that you would when you choose a mentor.
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  And it's also. It's a lot of commitment, right?
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  Like you are investing time into someone else's life and career
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  and development, and you want to make sure that you can provide
• 19:49
  that time. So just choosing wisely about
• 19:52
  what you say yes to so that it's valuable for that person and for
• 19:55
  you. Yeah, absolutely.
• 19:57
  And like last thing I want to talk about cuz we talked about,
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  you know, how to find a mentor, how to know if you need a coach
• 20:03
  versus a mentor and then how to be a coach when you are a boss
• 20:08
  but you're always a teammate at work.
• 20:11
  And so I wanted to talk a little and pick your brain, Lauren,
• 20:14
  about like, what place? Does coaching versus mentoring
• 20:17
  have when you're just colleagues with others?
• 20:21
  I love this question mostly because I think about you when
• 20:24
  we work together, like you were a coach to me in so many ways
• 20:28
  and also just a sounding board. So I think when you look at it
• 20:31
  at like a teammate level, it's it's easier to think about it as
• 20:35
  like someone you can bounce ideas off of and learn from and
• 20:39
  someone who's with you in that team to kind of achieve your
• 20:43
  overarching goal, right? And it's also sometimes great to
• 20:45
  talk about the coach, right? Like how are you dealing with
• 20:50
  what's happening with the leader?
• 20:51
  Like how are they approaching it?
• 20:52
  What did you see? So I think the way I look at it
• 20:55
  is like you were a coach to me in so many ways when we work
• 20:59
  together because you helped me like reason through things.
• 21:02
  And so there's definitely value in talking to your team mates
• 21:05
  about things and they can meet coaches in different ways,
• 21:08
  right? Because you're all in the ship
• 21:11
  together, right? And you're all have the same
• 21:14
  leader and you're on the same team.
• 21:16
  And so you probably have aligned goals.
• 21:18
  So it does kind of fit into that coaching capital in my opinion.
• 21:22
  Yeah, that is interesting. And I feel like we've been
• 21:24
  talking a lot about especially how coaches can identify the
• 21:27
  different skills that people have.
• 21:28
  And you, you want to be just as savvy as your manager or
• 21:33
  sometimes more savvy than your manager to sort of recognize the
• 21:36
  different strengths people have. I love like stealing skills from
• 21:40
  others. I don't know, it's not as
• 21:42
  generous as the way that you phrased it.
• 21:44
  But when I notice someone does something really well, I'm like,
• 21:47
  how do they do that? You know, like Lauren, you
• 21:50
  present really well and I'm like, how did you do that?
• 21:52
  Like let me kind of like steal that, you know, formula.
• 21:55
  So I think there's totally opportunity for you to both be a
• 22:00
  coach, for you to be a coachee or I guess we're saying like
• 22:03
  player on the team. When you notice people have
• 22:07
  great skills, you want to steal and then those mentoring
• 22:11
  relationships are really special and often times they show up as
• 22:14
  friendship first or maybe they start as coaches and then you
• 22:17
  deepen into friendship. I think there's always is going
• 22:20
  to be a sort of a mutual risk fact and we talked about like
• 22:23
  having aligned values often with your mentor.
• 22:26
  There's one fine line I think that's worth talking about, and
• 22:31
  we did 2 episodes on it last season, and that's feedback.
• 22:34
  And I think that you need to be really careful when you're on a
• 22:39
  team and you maybe don't have a relationship with someone to not
• 22:43
  approach them as a coach if it's not the right place or time or
• 22:47
  they didn't ask for it, right? Like even if you have a feedback
• 22:50
  culture, there's the right way to do it and it can come off
• 22:55
  negative if you just approach it as like, well, I know this and
• 22:59
  I'm telling you this and this is how you should do it.
• 23:01
  So just make sure you're very aware of if you're giving
• 23:05
  feedback and or coaching, it does require, especially for
• 23:09
  someone at your level or another teammate, a level of
• 23:12
  relationship first before you can kind of come out and say
• 23:15
  those things. It's just a fine line that I
• 23:17
  think is worth mentioning. I'm so glad you brought that up
• 23:21
  because it makes me think about how valuable it is when you're
• 23:24
  actually asked for feedback. And a lot of times when you are
• 23:28
  recognized as a coach or a mentor, you're asked directly
• 23:32
  for feedback. And when you are not seen as
• 23:35
  that, it's really valuable to know you're not seen as that.
• 23:38
  Sometimes people, even if you have more experience on a team,
• 23:42
  people may not see you as the leader and they don't want to
• 23:45
  hear what you say or they're not open at the moment where they're
• 23:49
  at with their skill set. So that's a great, that's a,
• 23:51
  that's a great caveat. So to wrap up, coach versus
• 23:56
  mentor, which do you have and which do you need in your life?
• 23:59
  We want to hear about it Share Anyone can be a coach or a
• 24:03
  mentor, and these are really important and great
• 24:06
  relationships to have and nurture in your life.
• 24:09
  Leaders benefit, especially when they coach team members.
• 24:12
  It's way more fulfilling than just being a boss because you
• 24:15
  get to like leverage the skills that people have.
• 24:18
  Seek a coach when you have a specific or time bound need.
• 24:23
  You know, skill based and developing your mentor bench
• 24:25
  actually requires initiative and a lot of effort and coordination
• 24:28
  on your part. You should be the one who's
• 24:31
  initiating that. Telling someone you respect them
• 24:33
  and asking them to be a part of your life.
• 24:36
  And I'll just add one thing and that's you can have more than
• 24:40
  one mentor throughout your life and at different stages of your
• 24:43
  life. You might need a coach versus a
• 24:45
  mentor and it's OK. You don't have to.
• 24:49
  If you're early in career and you're like, I need a mentor,
• 24:51
  but it doesn't really make sense.
• 24:52
  That's OK. Like there's not always a time
• 24:54
  where you need a mentor. Sometimes you just need a coach.
• 24:56
  So just really kind of sitting down to identify like what are
• 25:00
  my goals? Like what am I trying to achieve
• 25:02
  and what could really kind of help me get there?
• 25:04
  Yeah, I think a lot of this starts with just asking advice
• 25:07
  to people that you respect. Like that is like a great way to
• 25:11
  start it. And then to your point, you get
• 25:14
  to develop it from there. And there's going to be lots of
• 25:18
  mentors and coaches throughout your life.
• 25:19
  So tell us for now which ones you really value.
• 25:23
  You want to hear your stories as well.
• 25:25
  Thanks everyone. Thank you, and that's a wrap.
• 25:29
  Thanks for joining us on Unspoken Career Truths.
• 25:31
  Don't forget to follow us on Spotify and Instagram.
• 25:34
  And if you like this episode, share it with a friend.