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Kevin Milne: The Work From Home debate · The SME Stream

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: News'd be thank you very much for your text. Jack.
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: I personally think people who should continue to who can
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: work from home should continue to work from home. After all,
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: it's not their job to prop up eateries. I don't
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: want to spend two and a half hours a day
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: in traffic, nor do I want to pay twelve dollars
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: a day to park, says Fiona. Yeah for you, call Fiona.
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: I'm with you on that. It isn't your job to
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: prop up those cafes and things, although they are doing
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: it tough at the moment. But my reading of the
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: rules is that under the directives you can still work
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: from home. You just have to come to an agreement
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: with your employer. Where may you say, you know what,
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: Actually I'm going to be able to do the same
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: amounter of work, if not more to a higher quality
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: from home. Maybe you can look at a flexible option.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: Thank you for that. I'll get tomorrow your feedback in
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: a couple of minutes. Kevin Milner is with us this morning. Calder.
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: Kevin thoughts on this, Lawson, Oh amazing, eh, like actually
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: actually incredible.
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: I mean.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: The thing is about formula one. I'm no expert, but
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: I've got more and more into it over the last
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: couple of years thanks to Drive to Survive, that that
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: amazing series on Netflix. And it's pretty clear that most
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: of the people, not all of them, but most of
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: the people who make it into Formula one make it
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: with big money behind them. So either they come from
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: a family with really incredible resources, or they happen to
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: have relationships with sponsors that are pumping gazillions of dollars
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: into Formula one. I don't think anyone is suggesting that
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: Liham Lawson, you know, comes comes with the self a
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: spoon in his mouth, so he's made it there out
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: of shared determination and talent. And I just think that
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: is incredible.
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: I really do, absolutely brilliant. Yeah no, and I'm not
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: a race I'm not a I'm not a motorhead or yes, no,
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: I just I just really admire that guy for his
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: for his stickability totally and also obviously is incredible skill.
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah no, it's quite remarkable. Kevin, You too have been
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: pondering where you stand on the work from home debate.
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's funny, actually, isn't it that we by the
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: ended up with the same topic really today. But and
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: you've covered some of it, But yeah, there have been
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: plenty of headlines this week about working from home, or
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: WFH as it's called. Why the abbreviations, Jack, how much
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: quicker is it to say WF eight than working from home?
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: It's time so precious for you millennials.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's not quicker to say it, but
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: it is quicker to text it.
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. I knew you were going
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: to say that. I'd written all this out and I
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: thought I'll have a crack at about that, and I
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: suddenly thought texting, yeah, no, you're quite right. But anyway,
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: there's an old fashioned side of me that says the
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: whole working from home things got out of hand necessary
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: during COVID, but when COVID ended, we needed to return
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: to our workplaces to again work as a team under
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: normal supervision with no distractions. Doesn't that have a lovely
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: boomer retiree ring about it? Jack from someone who doesn't
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: have to go into the office anyway. Yeah. On the
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: other hand, a significant percentage of the workforce have discovered
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: their lives improved by working, a more fulfilling family life
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: cheaper with workoutput not appearing to suffer, So why return
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: to the old status quo. I'm a bit split on
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: the issue, really, but there's one thing unclear about and
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: has been mentioned already today. With all the talk about
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: the CBD business failures, the seem to suggestion this week
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: the government might want some employees back into their offices because,
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: among other things, the Central Business District needed them. There
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: may be valid reasons to tell employees to return their officers,
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: but surely not just because other businesses depend on them
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: central city cafes and bars, or fewer people now using
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: the buses and trains. Next we'll be hearing that public
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: servants have to go back to wearing suits to work
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: to support the dwindling number of local tailors. If it
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: turns out COVID showed us a better way to work
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: involving a significant level of working from home, than it's
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: a leak forward and we need to run with it
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: and sorry that affected businesses and services simply have to adjust,
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: just like open plan working and hot desking required employees
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: to adjust.
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I'm with you on that, Kevin. I agree.
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: I wonder if there's just somewhere in the middle of
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: all this a bit of a happy medium whereby like
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: public sector workers who do work in central Wellington and
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: who are commuting from you know, sometimes quite significant distances,
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: you know, Masterson or something like that. I wonder if
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: there's a happy medium whereby people are in the office
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: for a few days a week. So they're in the
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: office for three days a week, right, and that means
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: that they are also potentially contributing to some of those
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: CBD eateries. But they're getting the benefits from being in
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: the office and all of the easy communication that comes
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: from being in an open plan environment, but then also
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: getting the benefit from being able to focus on their
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: work at home. And I just wonder if there's a
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: nice little kind of if we can thread the needle
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: and yeah, yeah, I mean, you know, because the way
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: I actually looking at the detail of those directives, I
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: was like, I don't I don't think that this actually
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: changes anything. I don't think there will be you know,
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: employers or agencies that are automatically saying that you are
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: entitled to work from home. Maybe maybe I'm maybe I'm
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: wrong on that be interesting to know.
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: I think the government was really telling people you cannot
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: tell the guys that run your company or manage your
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: business that you are going to be staying at home. Yeah,
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: it has to be negotiated. Yeah, and I think that's
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: totally clear. And if they want you to come into
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: the office, I'm sorry. That's the way it happens. You
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: go into the office, you do what you're told.
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I like, no, it sounds even older than I
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: really am.
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: I think it's pretty real. I think it's pretty reasonably
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: and it's pretty common sense.
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah. The only the last thing I will add is
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: that it's really clear to me that like that people
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: work best in different conditions. So, for example, my my
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: wonderful wife, she is a total night owl, right, so
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: she kind of like starts to get into gear for
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: her working day at about four PM, and so that's
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: when she's really starting to get most productive. And of
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: course then it's like, all right, the day's done, I'm
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: going to hit home, you know, whereas I am super
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: productive at quarter pus seven in the morning. And so
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: we're just kind of total opposite ends of the day.
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: And so I will often do an hour or two's
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: work from home and achieve more like before I go
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: into the office, and achieve more in that time than
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: I will in four hours in the office, and you know,
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: it's just yeah, it's it's it's funny. I just and
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: I think sometimes, you know, it probably requires a little
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: bit of flexibility on behalf of both employers and employees.
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: But anyway, I know a lot of people will have
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: thoughts on that. Kevin, You're not making your way to
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: Wellington tonight for.
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: The Albot Oh good man, Oh yeah, I'm up to
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: the rugby.
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: Good What are you thinking? Because last week, you know,
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: I came at the start of the show very foolishly
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: made predictions, which is never never a good idea when
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: it comes to rugby, and it looked like, actually my
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: warnings were gonna be heated, if you like, by the
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: first ten or fifteen minutes of that game when we
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: put what twenty five points on them. But things turn
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: out it was a pretty exciting match last week, so
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: it's sort of hard to really gauge.
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not confident about any of my predictions after
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: last night and watching Counties Thrash thrash Wellington that were
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: sitting about tenth and the ladder beating the table leaders easily. Honestly,
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: they would have beaten the All Blacks. Last night. Counties
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: were Magne Nevers.
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it was pretty remarkable. I what fifty one twelve.
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: I think for the gentle its remarkable.
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: Really.
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: Hey, thank you so much, Kevin, have a wonderful time
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: this evening, and thank you for your feedback as well.
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: Jack.
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: To assume that businesses or agencies weren't already discussing specifics
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: for working from home as total crap. It was never
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: an entitlement was Surely the employer would know if working
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: from home or in the office is the most profitable.
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: I suppose the question is that, well, some people would
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: say is that if it's a private business, yes, the
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: employer absolutely would know whether it's most profitable, but that
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: in the public service the drive for productivity might not
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: be quite the same as it is in a private business.
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: That would be the argument there, wouldn't it