Latest / Living Uncertain an OCD Podcast / Another Week with OCD (OCD)(Episode 24)
Transcript
- Opening: Hello, and welcome to the podcast, Living Uncertain. This podcast is dedicated to obsessive compulsive disorder, OCD, and the primary treatment, exposure response prevention, ERP. OCD comes in many forms, such as contamination, perfectionism, checking, harm, superstitious, religious or moral, sexual orientation, and or relationship. ERP is the gold standard to treating OCD. and it focuses on deliberately confronting fears, the exposure, while refraining from compulsive rituals, the response prevention. With repeated exposures and without engaging in compulsions, we learn to tolerate anxiety and break the cycle of intrusive thoughts. We are a married couple that have faced both the challenges of OCD and the incredible healing that ERP can provide to your marriage, family, and your home. As a person who lives with OCD, I am much more than this diagnosis. We all can be. Marc and Stacee: Hey y'all, it's Stacy, and along with my husband Mark, we want to thank you for living uncertain with us. Welcome to episode 24. And as you all know by now, this is the podcast that discusses everything OCD and ERP related. We're here today, on today's episode, to talk about a few different things, things that have been going on in our life over the last week that perhaps OCD has been a part of. I think it's important tonight to talk more about. certain compulsions and what ERP can look like when you're trying to reverse that cycle or interrupt that cycle. So welcome. So this past week has been kind of a up and down week for us. So Stacy is a contractor and with as a contractor sometimes you have jobs or you don't have jobs. Yes, and to be clear, I'm a contracted therapist, not a actual contractor. Yeah. Contracted therapist. Yes. So last school year you had a job in a school that then they hired somebody, so you weren't rehired yes, a contractor in that school. Yes. And then you were kind of in limbo. Mm-hmm. Which for somebody that has O C D, limbo is Not pleasant. No. Or somebody that, you know, has to be a part of that person's life sometimes. Or someone pleasant. is it not pleasant for you either? I'm so sorry for that. my bad. But but you know, I did tell you we're gonna be fine. You know, it's you know, unfortunately that's part of that reassurance that you know, it's it's hard. Do you reassure? Do we have a conversation? Do you do ERP? It's not one of those things where, you know, is ERP like do you do it in that moment? Because, you know, if you're out in public, you know, is it a time and place for ERP? But when you're in your own house. And I think that's a really good point to bring up and it's something that we've touched on in other episodes, which is when is it ERP appropriate or when is it just a conversation to be had? When is it ERP appropriate? When is it not? Or when is it just a conversation and when is it someone with OCD like myself seeking reassurance and checking in. And I think that's one of the bigger ones too that we've had to tackle, especially as you and I are both getting stronger with what we know about OCD and how we counteract and try to interrupt the cycle of compulsions, which is knowing when it's just a conversation and when I'm seeking reassurance. And that's gets so frustrating, especially to me, because there are times and perhaps this week we hit that where I see it one way and you see it differently. And that becomes a moment where we have to kind of just take a step back and remember what we've done in the past, remember what our training is, remember all that education, and then kind of figure it out together, which we are much, much better at doing now. But it is still very Difficult. So back to the I didn't have a job. You then your your contracting company found you a position. Yes. In a different district. Yes. And you were supposed to start yesterday. Yeah. And per per the request of that school district. Right. Which they didn't which as It happens in the beginning and the rollout of every school year in districts, big or small. Things happen, things come up and it's not always a succinct start here, do this, have this, now you go here. Which and and I wanna also layer a a l a add a layer to this complexity of of the contracting. You you're not in person. You're doing this virtually. Correct. The school district that you are contracted in is over two hundred miles away from us. Correct. So you can't necessarily walk into the school or into the district office and be onboarded. Right. Everything is being done virtually. It's a little different situation. And some of it's being done through your contracting company, you know, some of it's direct. you know, and and if it doesn't go for me, what I've noticed, if it doesn't go smooth or there's glitches to the day. Then then I have recognized or I've noticed that then some OCD tendencies come out. You. And you know, you and I had conversations yesterday. We sure did. And I saw it much differently, didn't we? Yes. And it was not her OCD, is how she saw it. And she wanted to say, Well, I know you're gonna say this is my O C D and what was the other thing? there was a little bit of a midlife crisis thrown in there. yeah, mid midlife crisis thrown in there. Yes. So it was OCD and midlife crisis, you know. Just the combination that any woman wants to hear from the love of her life, by the way. Yeah. because she was like wanting to just basically quit the job and you know, or I no, not not quit not quit the job, but I'm not gonna have a job because you know, they didn't get their act together, then you know That's what I was seeing. That's what I was feeling, even from being at work. No, no, no. See, I didn't see it that way. I just saw the nervousness of I had everything planned out and organized the way that I thought it was gonna go. And then it didn't go that way. And I started looping a little in my head. Which doesn't sound at all like OCD, does it? Well, but here's the thing. No, that was sarcastic. That's absolutely OCD. I understand that, but I didn't know you were looping in your head. Well You never told me that. That's No, I like to keep those little nuggets secret now sometimes. So here she is looping in her head where I'm having, you know, I'm telling her, Well, this may be a little bit of midlife crisis slash O C D and which then you know, makes her a little bit more angry. So actually I think this I mean, we got through it pretty quickly though. So there's that. Well all of our arguments usually are pretty quick. For twenty years they've been that way. Yeah. Twenty two everybody, by the way. yeah. Who's counting? Yeah. So here's Yes. It was my O C D. And and here's a good segue. Hold on here. So so we're gonna add another layer into my gosh. Is this like a seven layer dip or what? Like you going bean dip there. You know, seven layer bean dip with ERP and midlife crisis. Well then we're gonna add our daughter into the mix. Okay. Because she sprung she sprung a little extra surprise on us, which is that We've been planning for her to go to a certain charter high school for months and months and months. And then last night she decided, I think I want a more traditional high school experience and I want to go somewhere different. Where her brother went. And so here we are. So in the United States or in Arizona, you know, if you don't live in the boundary of that school, you have to do what we call open enrollment. Yes. Which the school that her brother went to is not part of our. attendance boundary for where we lived. So you know, here I am working in the same school district. Mm-hmm. And in my mind, I know the processes, I know what happens, I know all that stuff. So here I am texting the people that could make it happen to get her in. Right. And according to you, I was on my phone all night long. Well, because I wanted to discuss it more. Because that's what I like to do, because here I am in my head again and with more layers of things to be in my head about. Now, I think this is a good time in this episode to segue into another piece that I wanted to talk about, which is one of the things that I have done for so many years and one of the things that I've been able to hide and kind of squirrel away on my own. Ooh, this will be fun to hear this. Something new, everybody. no. Well not new for myself. Not for you necessarily or for the listeners now, but I'm saying is my mental compulsions, right? That's what I kept hidden for so many years. That's why I didn't even know that I had OCD. And so I would take to doing these mental compulsions and having a very ritualized conversation with myself if things didn't feel in control and very certain and I wasn't in the process of living uncertain yet. And so I would do these mental compulsions. So what was yesterday? And so it's what it always is that if something is out of my control, it's it's okay. You're okay, it'll be all right. Because you know what? Even if it doesn't work out, this and this and this, or even if it doesn't go this way, we'll do this and this and this. Like it's always I have to get to a point where then I can hold on to something in my head at the end, which is like I have figured it out and I know what's gonna happen. Thank you. Yes. In a sense, it's pretty much exactly what it is. Or I'll say, you know, I I just have this very ritualized way because I've just done it for so many years that no matter what the situation is that comes up, that is out of my control, that is a potential surprise that might be somewhat uncomfortable or unsettling, that doesn't feel just right. That doesn't feel just right, I do this very ritualized looping thought process, which I now know a lot of It becomes known as these mental compulsions, right? And so in this whole process of therapy and in this whole process of being introduced to ERP, one of the things that I've learned how to do is interrupt that need for the mental compulsion, which is something, again, that I've had to hold myself accountable for because it's not necessarily something that everyone else can see. And so I thought it was a good time to kind of talk about what that looks like when I do. I suppose when I do exposures, ERP to myself, when I think or can see myself going down that road of having that mental loop. So let me ask you this. So yesterday, yeah. It was your day wasn't going right with the new school. Mm-hmm. Avery dropped that truth bomb on us. Mm-hmm. Were you in the p space? Did you have the the the mental capacity, the mental brain power? To stop those compulsions. Yes. And I will say that I got more caught in the mental compulsions, the fact that I hadn't heard about my job. I had Avery and her switching high schools into a different kind of compartment. And I was like, I think we can deal with that one. And and I had you because you were gonna deal with the brunt of it because you, like you mentioned, work in the district, et cetera. So I felt pretty okay about that one. It was the not having the the solidified job or or that I felt like it was the solidified job in my head. And that's where I let myself, well, what happens if I don't do this? Well, what happens if this happens? Well, what if this? What if that? And I could feel myself going into that. And then to combat those obsessions or those intrusive thoughts, I start my ritualized compulsion, which is no, no, you're okay. It'll be okay. It's fine. It's fine. Sometimes they're in my head. Sometimes I'm literally speaking out loud to myself. And I've heard that before. I'm aware that's not my finest Hour, but yes. And so, yes, when I feel myself doing that now, and it was even last night I was able to do it to a certain extent. What I do now is I kind of say to myself the opposite of what I'm used to telling myself. So if it's, you know, this isn't gonna work out, and you know what, it's gonna be okay. I'm gonna be okay because I know that this is gonna work out and it's gonna be okay, and I'll be all right. Instead of doing that, because I don't actually know. I have to actually say that. Maybe it doesn't. Maybe it doesn't work out. Maybe she does hate me. Maybe it doesn't happen the way that I think. Maybe it will. Yesterday, did your anxiety ever go up? Not as bad as I've had before in the past. So so I think you probably have gotten better not bringing your having your anxiety go up, more of jumping straight into the mental compulsion compulsions. And my brain still I feel is I'm much so I'm so much clearer. And I'm less foggy than I ever have been before. And so even if I start to get into a moment where I'm feeling uneasy or uncomfortable, I look at it or feel differently about it. I don't know if that makes sense. And maybe to someone out there listening who has OCD and who's going through something similar than that I do, maybe to them it will make sense and I hope it does. Because now that I've been through the ERP process, now that I've had so much success with all of that, I don't feel as though the anxiety just spikes. It it takes a lot more now to get my anxiety to spike than it ever did before. Like before it would be one little moment and all of a sudden I was at a zero to sixty. Now we'd have to stack several pretty intense moments onto one another in order to get my anxiety back up that high. Yeah. So when you when you as your day went on and and your contact at your your contracting agency it was like touch base with me a couple times a day. I think I got home by the time your last check in with her was supposed to happen. Yeah. And I could tell that you were kind of on edge. Mm-hmm. So I I will just tell you, I knew I could feel that it was O C D that was happening. And you didn't necessarily want to agree with that. No, I did not. Did you deep down kind of feel like maybe I always deep down feel that way. But in the moment, no, I didn't want to agree with you. Yeah. It just didn't it didn't feel just right. So then Did you see what I did there? Yeah. So then we finish our our night out. Yes. And you wake up the next morning and you're still feeling uncertain. Yeah. And I mean and I know that because you and I were were not arguing or anything, but you know, we were kind of talking a little bit about, you know, was this OCD or was it not? And and you weren't happy with that conversation. No, it was not. So then what happened today that got you to that point that you were like, okay, it's all good. Well, 'cause it worked out. Right? Like So they contacted you and gave you everything that you need to do in order to do the job. So I could have just gone without the mental compulsions and ritualized or the the intrusive thoughts and the mental compulsions the night before and just realized that it's okay if you live uncertain. Obviously that's the whole point of this podcast. And I have to still consistently remind myself of that. That I could have gone without doing all of that and it still would have it it worked out or it wouldn't have. And neither one was going to end the earth. No, but I will tell you this. One of the comments you made to me a little while ago, if it didn't work out and we're living on my paycheck, you don't feel like the money I make is necessarily your money. now we're getting okay. Here we go. Now this is getting into another podcast that we'll get to down the road. completely different than the one dealing with OCD. But yeah, I mean, we've been married for twenty two years. We've both worked full time. Yeah. Since we were married. And I've been a full-time working mom for all these years. And to be honest, I've always financially contributed to the family. You've been the moneymaker. I for many years I was. I no longer it was content with that. Yeah. But yeah, it's a very You know, we're we're from a different age and stage in life too and a different generation. And so things just look differently for us, I suppose, as we're getting into our middle age here soon enough. And so yeah, there was a thought that was, Well, what if I can't contribute financially to the family? Then what? Well then maybe the the earth will end somehow and it won't. But in the moment I'm not thinking it thinking about it like that. Yeah. But even then like tonight at when we were sitting down having dinner. You know, we talked a little bit about yesterday if it was O C D and I think you have a clearer mind. Okay, I'm just gonna say it on the record for you, for the listeners, for anyone who needs to hear this. Generally speaking, it's always going to be my OCD. Always. But I think because you feel like you've come so far that you don't want it to be. Once I see this no, I do not want it to be, because that's fearful for me to Go backwards, even though it's not necessarily going backwards because I'm handling it differently than I did before. And there is such a thing as grace. Yeah. To how far I have come and what I have done. And sometimes, yeah, it gets me a little bit. The OCD, I mean. Like it'll sneak up on me again. And I'll be like, dang it, where did that come from? And so, yes, again, for the record. If ever you tell me this is probably your O C D, just be prepared that the first thing I'm gonna want to say is not everything is my O C D, but I'm putting it on the record that Most likely it is. Yeah. There's a ninety nine point nine percent chance. Yeah. And and for me it's hard because like it sometimes it's so always so hard for you. It is hard because it's small. It it's not something that you can necessarily For somebody that didn't live with you day in and day out like I do, they wouldn't pick up on that it was OCD. No. And that's that's the hard part of the I c I picked up on that it was probably OCD, but then I've got to tread lightly on how I I did get frustrated with you saying that to me yesterday, but I knew deep down it was. And as we've talked about so many times before too, I the the amount of just immense trust and love that I have for you that has only gotten stronger over the years. Is is as such that I can't be too upset for long because you're not coming at it from a place of hurt or what do I want to say? You're not trying to hurt me. No. Is what I want to say. No, it's a help. It's not that. But I but I will say because you when you weren't necessarily buying in that it might have been your O C D, I I have to tread lightly on on doing quasi ERP with you. Like you you would ask you would ask me questions and I wouldn't necessarily respond to them. Mm-hmm. I know you know I wasn't responding to them. But I had to do it in a in a gentle way versus I'm not sure. When when we when we know that you're truly jumping into your O C D land. I can do the I'm not sure. When it's quasi conversational slash O C D, I've got to be a definitely a lot more delicate. And creative, it sounds like. And c and creative on how I respond to some of your questions or our conversations. And that is very hard to do sometimes. I can imagine. And again, it's But I but I will say, like today we had a very good conversation about it. Yes. And I think that's the that's the tricky part because we are married, we are raising two teenage children, we are doing life together. And so when do we have just a conversation versus what is me re checking in or trying to get reassurance and being able to know the difference is is sometimes very challenging. And I think that's part of That's still a a sticky part. It for us it's definitely very difficult for us. But I do know one thing that you and I have started doing, I've noticed at least, is we swing back around to that conversation. Excuse me, that conversation later, maybe the next day, or later in the afternoon, or you know, it it's never a conversation that is a one and done. We kind of go through that ERP quasi ERP sometimes. And then the next day after we've gone through it, I I know we circle back around and have those conversations about what we were trying to have a conversation that's about, which was not an effective conversation. Or sometimes we bring it up like we are now. You know Well, yeah. This is this is raw and authentic and and showing that O C D is a constant moving piece of any person's life or household. And there are different challenges that come up week by week. You know, so some yeah, for me, yeah, sometimes there there's some frustrations like there was last night, but I do know that it's O C D related. I do know that we can then circle back around a little bit later when I know the the situation that you might be feeling uncomfortable is resolved. Mm-hmm. Like today was resolved for you because you got everything you needed to do your job. Right. Moving forward and you feel comfortable about what's happening. And so now we can have an actual conversation about that, but yesterday afternoon was ERP about what was not happening. Yes, and I will say that while I most often will ask you for reassurance or check in with you, there was a time in my life when I was doing that with everyone in my life. Yeah. And so I will say that there was a point yesterday, even though I got caught in mental compulsions, that I didn't do other compulsions, which would be generally speaking in my life, would reach out to other people. To ask for reassurance. Do I still have a job? Am I okay? Why didn't you know, is this okay? Did I do something wrong? I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. Like there are things I would over apologize, I would over-explain, I would overcompensate for so much and check in to make sure that people were happy with me or feeling okay about me, or I needed that reassurance that no, everything was gonna be okay. And I wasn't just getting it or needing it from you. I was needing it from other people. Now I will say. that yes, I got anxious, but I s but I sat in the discomfort of that rather than seek reassurance from someone else. And and you didn't go to your contacts at the district and exactly over apologize why they didn't get a form or this or that or whatever that the breakdown was of you not starting You know, like they wanted you to So actually when we think about it and we break it down, it's a win. Yeah. 100%. No, I mean but this is us but this is us sitting down and talking about what you would have done and what you do now. Right. I mean, you would have probably sent those people four texts. Yeah. Apologizing and I'm so sorry, you know, and checking in and asking for reassurance. Yeah. Yeah. And now you just they didn't do what they needed to do and You're you're gonna push through and hopefully tomorrow's a different day. Yeah. But you try to do the check ins and the reinsurances with me. So I mean, that's how far you really have come. So now and now you being the person I depended most on that for, we're also doing the the work to try to create some new norms in that area too. But even your last the last school district you were with last year, y you Your caseload was like up to ninety kids because you kept saying yes and yes and yes and yes. And part of that was because of being a business owner, you wanted people to be supportive and, you know, willing to do and go the extra mile to help move things forward and stuff, but that was a little too far. My people pleasing generally goes too far. Yeah. And you recognize that thou now. So you know, and you're like, no, I'm not gonna stumble in in my past oopsas for the one coming up, school year coming up. You know, to where you won't be taking on ninety kids when, you know, just it's it's not feasible. No, no, no, I understand. No, I you're right. You don't have a time in the day to do all the paperwork that you have to do. And I mean I can see you were stressed at the end of the school year because of that reason. Trying to get, know, all the services in and meetings and paperwork and you know, when you kept saying I'm adding another four kids and their five kids, I'm like, That's a lot of paperwork. I know that 'cause I used to do the paperwork. And it was a lot. But I'm I'm on a good trajectory now and our daughter Avery will be on a good trajectory and and hopefully we'll have her back soon to do another episode with us to talk about, you know, her continuing journey on On ERP and because she's about ready to step into a really big ERP piece. Yes, she is. She's going from a school that has about that she was anticipating, well, going from a school online where there was about, you know, twenty of her classmates online, virtually checking in twice, three times a week type of thing, to potentially thinking about going in person at a high school with four hundred kids now walking onto a campus with eighteen hundred, nineteen hundred kids. So yeah, that's ERP with a capital ERP. Yeah. But she has told us that she feels more confident because of the ERP and the medication. Mm-hmm. And that she feels more ready than she ever has felt. Absolutely. You know, and I I We just gotta her try. One hundred percent. 'Cause if she, you know, falls and needs support, we're gonna be there to help her. We already have a kind of a a couple of contingency plans in place if that happens. Yes. But you know, we're hoping it doesn't and she can we have contingency plans for our son too, by the way, everyone who begins his freshman year at Arizona State coming up. So Living in the dorms. But he but he has assured us that he can keep his space clean. Because he'll have a roommate, but he's got three roommates right now in his current living situation. And I haven't necessarily seen that. I think he would I think he would like to say it's different when it's his parents and his sister versus a roommate. But we'll see. We'll see how he does. We're we've got some contingencies for him too, if things don't work out and and if he falls, we'll be there to support him too. No, Just as we will our daughter, one hundred percent. Being parents is difficult. That's what we do. You know, we'll show up every day. Yes. But anyway, we digress because this is living uncertain and we're here to talk about O C D and ERP. But yeah. Well, but they they there's a they make us practice the E. they do. No, no. That's been a it's been huge. And and hugely beneficial for them too, as they are teenagers now and growing up. So it's been good for our whole family. So we want to thank everybody for listening today. Always. If you follow us on Facebook or want to share a story on there, you're not, you know, anonymously, please do so about successes that you've had. If you don't want to come onto the podcast, if you want to come on the podcast, please reach out to us. We'd love to have people on no matter where you're at, we can do it, you know, through video and we'd love to share your story. Continue building this community. Because it is, it is definitely a community that is not recognized and it's misunderstood. Yes. And on Instagram, we are living uncertain underscore OCD. So thank you for listening tonight. And for Living Uncertain with us every day. Thank y'all. Marc & Stacee: Thank you for joining us on today's episode and Living Uncertain with us. We are not therapists and this podcast is intended to provide information and support. It should not replace traditional means of seeking help from a licensed mental health professional. If you like this episode or would like to hear more, please like, subscribe or share with someone you think may benefit. Here at Living Uncertain, we're building a community of support. If you and your significant other would like to share your story, we would love to have you on the podcast. Please click on the link in the episode description and fill out the interest form.