Latest / We Are More: Sisters Talk Faith & Feminism / Ep. 104: Religious Freedom™

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Ep. 104: Religious Freedom™ · We Are More: Sisters Talk Faith & Feminism

• 0:12
  Speaker 1: To the We Are More Pod cast. My name is Alyssa. And my name is Bree. We're two sisters passionate about all things faith and feminism. We believe that Jesus trusted, respected, and encouraged women to teach and preach his word.
• 0:26
  And apparently, that's controversial. Get comfy.
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: Oh, world. Good news. We got
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: some more rocks. Good news. And I thought it was a green opal is what it was advertised as, but Chatty BTS said it's Jasper.
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: Ugh. So upsetting.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: So and I and I believe ChatGPT.
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: With everything in your whole life? Not everything.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: One time, actually recently, I was like, hey. Write this or something for work. And it was not the paid version and maybe that was it. But rather than a word, it had like a weird symbol. And I said, what's that?
• 1:06
  I said, oops, a typo. Like, you're the internet. You can't have typos. You can't have typos. You're technology.
• 1:15
  Especially That's not okay.
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: When you use ChatGPT, you too have to be careful because I forget what they call it. But these systems can, like, make things up or they'll pull things from, you know, random websites. But if you ask for sources, it's usually pretty good about that. So you can kind of, like, confirm and make sure that you know where things are coming from. Mhmm.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: Not just like, hey, make up some random quote. Right. Say it's from Brenda down the road.
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: It does do that because I'll ask for important quotes and things like that. And it'll be like, oh, well, this is basically what this person says. I assume this person would have said it. Right. That's not helpful to me.
• 1:54
  I need real quotes.
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: Even though they're dead. But we're gonna make this up anyway. Bring them back to life.
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: So quick shout out. We have seen a lot of growth over the last month or so. And I wanted to shout out our biggest listener base from our new listeners is in Vietnam, which is very cool. Super cool and amazing. Thank you guys so much for listening, for going through our back catalog and listening to the absolute chaos that are some
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: of those episodes and sharing it with your friends and family too. We really appreciate that.
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: It's been really cool to see. We jumped from I don't know if you guys are interested in, like, the podcast growth. But I am the stats girly, and that's what I like to read and I find interesting. And so we jumped from, like, 44 countries. We were pretty static there for a long time to all of a sudden being at what did I say?
• 2:46
  Sixty four?
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: Sixty five. Think.
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: 65 countries kind of within about a week, which is very cool to see. It's nice to know that you guys are listening, that you find this valuable. It's also just from a personal point of view, crazy Mhmm.
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: To know that across 65 countries that I've never been to, my voice has been heard. Yeah. And your voice has been heard. And I think that's really interesting.
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: It's I just think it's very cool. When we started the podcast, we said we just wanna impact one person. And that's a lovely self deprecating thing to say. The reality is, of course, you wanna impact more than one person. But to think that this many people choose us, choose to sit here with us, hopefully find a safe space here with us
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: Mhmm.
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: That's one of the things that I can be the most proud of in my life.
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And I think it's really important to find your people. Mhmm. And hopefully, we're your people in a space where you feel understood and you feel seen and you feel heard. Mhmm.
• 3:51
  Because especially in this, like, Christian community, having the viewpoint that you and I do Mhmm. We're not the only two, but it is a smaller group of us.
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah. When I started down this path, this Christian feminist path, I legitimately thought I was the only person that felt this way. The only person that struggled with the idea of female only submission. We're just feeling like you were created as a second class citizen Right.
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: Or just a little bit less Mhmm. Than men. And I struggled with that. Mhmm. Having God, a creator, create me just a little bit less.
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: Yep. Not quite as important. Yeah.
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: And just knowing that that's not true.
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: Right. And it was for me, it wasn't impossible to find those resources. But for people ten years before me, it was almost impossible to find some of these resources. So we hope that we can help open that world to you. There's so many more creators.
• 4:48
  It's not just us. Mhmm. But we appreciate that you've chosen us, that you've chosen to be here of all the places that you can be. Mhmm. Now this series that we're starting,
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: because we're doing a new one A new different one.
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: Is little bit I feel like is a fun combination of stuff going on in our lives and also stuff going on on our social media. Yeah. But we're gonna be talking for the next few weeks about things that your pastor doesn't wanna talk about.
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: Things that your pastor who we assume went to some kind of school Mhmm. For teaching and preaching Mhmm. And should know these things, but they're not preaching about from the pulpit. Right. Just things that Christian people people people of faith should know.
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And some of it will be, like, today, we're gonna go into kind of the history of the Christian church and why we're here at Christian nationalism right now. But we're also gonna go over some tough verses in the Bible that are just hard to wrestle with. Mhmm. I'm thinking, like, when after Daniel was thrown in the lion's den in the Old Testament and the king threw his advisers and their families into the lion's den after that.
• 6:02
  And I always really struggled with that with those verses thinking about children. So we're gonna talk about just the hard parts of the Bible, the hard concepts. Because there are uncomfortable things, and it's still important that we talk about them.
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: Mhmm. And I feel like in churches today, they feel like the hardest topic to bring up is tithing. This is the hardest thing that we have to talk about is finances. But really, the hardest part is like, hey, remember when God asked that guy to sacrifice his son? Yeah.
• 6:34
  But there there's really tough verses in the Bible and and believing that your God is all powerful and all good, and then seeing these these tough parts of the Bible Mhmm.
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: To wrestle with. Yeah. A lot of times sermons because they have to be wrapped up in twenty, thirty minutes.
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: Mhmm.
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: So you're getting this little snippet to send you off into the week on a nice note. And I can understand where that comes from. I do. But you have to dig a little bit deeper, and that's what we're here for today.
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: But also understanding that the Bible was written in a completely different time, different culture, different social norms. And I think that the church today wants to slap our 2026 culture onto bible verses.
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: Mhmm. You can really see that if you scroll through our Instagram comments. I know we've talked about this a lot lately, but you can see people just not wanting to look into the past. And it's important that we do because those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it. Right?
• 7:46
  Mhmm. And that's why we're gonna look at the Christian past today.
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: Right. And understanding that the Bible that we read from often today has been translated many times from a language that you don't speak. So the original Greek and Hebrew, like, what did they actually want to say with these words? And what would they have understood based on their culture at the time, reading those words versus how we read them today Mhmm. Out of the King James version
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: or the NIV. Now today, specifically, we are talking about the church kinda cozying up to power over the last really long time. Okay? This is not new forever. Yeah.
• 8:24
  If you for our US based listeners or anybody who's following US politics in the news, the Christian church in The US has become a very nationalistic, very right wing organization. And it's easy to sit here in 2026, like you said, and say, well, this has never happened before. Or maybe this has only happened once before. But the reality of the church is that this has happened countless times before. And if we don't read it and recognize it, we're just we're gonna keep doing the cycle again and again.
• 9:00
  Mhmm. So this kind of started and Brie has most of
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: the research for today, but
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: I have a a little bit. I got a little bit. But this kind of started when Christianity became legal. So it was in about March. March.
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: That sounded very confusing. '80.
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: And that was when Constantine was the emperor. And prior to this, Christianity was illegal. It was like a little niche religion. People were actually being persecuted and killed for this faith. Right?
• 9:37
  And so Constantine, via the Edict of Milan, said, okay. Not only are we gonna legalize this, but we're gonna make this the official religion of Rome. So Roman empire, big empire. Right? How many times a day do you think of the Roman empire?
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: Is that what they ask, Matin, all the time? Yeah. That was a trend on TikTok for a long time. Like, how many times do you think of the Roman empire a day?
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: Well, now you can think of it right now. Fantastic. So huge empire. Now Christianity is the main religion. And so Christians, through this right here, you can see this through line, learned that in places of power is safety.
• 10:26
  In places of power is more power and more influence. And they branded it as good because they said, oh, well, we can we can force the rest of the world to believe in Jesus. Right? But the reality was it meant power for them. Mhmm.
• 10:42
  And so you can see it all the way back. Like, this is not a new concept, and we'll go through history with
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: you today. Are you ready for a history lesson? People love history class.
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: They do, especially when it's taught by us. So then jumping forward, like, four years, Christianity really, really took over the world. Right? We know this. It expanded in a big way, which in theory feels like a good thing and practices less of a good thing because it launched us into the crusades.
• 11:16
  And when the crusades happened, the Catholic church, which we've talked about before Christians like to pretend we're not part of, but that's our history too. And the Catholic church framed the crusades as like your holy duty. So don't laugh at me. Duty. And they would promise forgiveness of sins.
• 11:42
  So it was like an exchange. Right? So, okay, father of the family, you go to war, kill off a bunch of people of other faiths, and you and your family will go to heaven. Guaranteed. Golden ticket.
• 11:56
  Right? Which sounds so ridiculous. But that's what we were doing. That's what the church was doing. Because how do you get more power?
• 12:06
  You get rid of the people who think differently. Does that sound a little bit familiar to anyone? No.
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: That doesn't sound familiar
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: at all. One of the rallying cries that they would say as they were going into battle I'm not gonna say it in the original language because Brie will make fun of me. No. I think you should try.
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: I'm not gonna do that. I'll stay silent.
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: No, you won't. You'll make a face. But one thing that they would say is, god wills it. Imagine just imagine being on the other side of that. And this entire army screams at you as they're coming at you with swords, God wills it.
• 12:48
  And put yourself in this situation of the opposing side. Right? Why would you want to be involved with that god at all? Mhmm. If you're saying that god wants to torture and kill me, maybe I'll turn the other way.
• 13:05
  And yet this was how the church said, we're spreading Christianity. We're expanding Christianity by forcing others to either get in line and become Christians or die. Mhmm. And in a way, again, that's what we're doing today. All of these things relate.
• 13:26
  We're saying become a Christian or we're going to oppress you. Good luck. We have the inquisition,
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: which happened in the twelfth and ninth centuries, which long time ago. It was driven largely, again, by the Catholic church, especially in Spain. So think the Spanish Inquisition. Mhmm. And targeted what they called heretics, which was Jews and Muslims, people who weren't Catholic.
• 13:52
  Mhmm. And the biggest people group that they could find, which is a very interesting group of people to target, especially if you had the Bible. Right. Right? Mhmm.
• 14:01
  Interesting choices. They interrogated people. They tortured people. And I don't know if anybody's ever been to a medieval torture museum.
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: I don't think that's like a common life experience.
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: But let me tell you, it's scarring. Mhmm. What people can do to people. It's a fate worse than death. Mhmm.
• 14:22
  I would say it's awful. Don't go to the Chicago Medieval Torture Well,
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: now they're gonna come into our comments, and they're gonna yell at us.
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: Okay. If you want to feel something and have it not be good, then go to the medieval torture museum.
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: If you would like to be mildly tortured today.
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: They forced people to convert, or they would exile them Mhmm. Or torture or kill them. And the church claimed authority to decide who was in or out. So basically, they were deciding who gets into heaven and who stays out. Mhmm.
• 15:00
  And those that they decided were out were treated spiritually and socially disposable. Mhmm. So they could do with them whatever they wanted. And again, it goes back to that theme of, do you see this person as a human or not?
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: Right. That actually makes me think a lot about churches today. Are you on the inner circle, or are you not? We have felt that in so many churches.
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: Just like from socially, going into a church and feeling like there's this click, and there's this inner circle of people that are the most important people in the church. And trying to find your way and navigate, like, socially. And that happened to us. At least it happened to me as a teenager. Oh, yeah.
• 15:41
  Trying to find my space with these people who are supposed to be my people. Mhmm. Right? They're in my church and being exiled and told, you're not good enough. You're not one of us.
• 15:52
  You would be better to leave.
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: Mhmm. Or even for now too, I think people that are in the more progressive Christian space so often are told by Christian family members, by people on the Internet, by their pastors that if you believe this way, you don't get to be a Christian. If you say this thing, clearly, you don't have faith. Clearly, you don't follow Jesus. And it's the same concept, a little less brutal and violent.
• 16:25
  Mhmm. But it's the same emotional concept where it's like, we decide. Not God. We, the Christian church, decide if you're going to heaven or not, if your faith is real or not.
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Which is one of the number one things we're not supposed to do. Right? To judge someone else's faith. Mhmm.
• 16:42
  But we do that freely all the time.
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: To be entirely fair, it's really hard not
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: to judge people's faith. Like, I
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: know that we're really not supposed to, but it that is something I think is difficult. However, keep it to your dang self.
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: Keep those judgments a secret. We have the colonization and the doctrine of discovery in the fourteen hundreds. Oh, wow. That was quite a title.
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: Here we go. I'm ready.
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: It was backed by the pope. Got it. And allowed Christians and nations to claim lands of non Christians. So think how The US came in and took the land from the indigenous people. Mhmm.
• 17:23
  The indigenous people were displaced, enslaved, or killed. Mhmm. And non Christians were viewed as less than fully human. Christianity was used to justify domination. Mhmm.
• 17:36
  So that's why you'll see a lot on TikTok right now. There's a lot of pushback on social media about how The US is handling the immigration issue, especially because we stole their land to begin with. Mhmm. So who are we to say who stays and goes?
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah. This is ours somehow.
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Just because we've decided it is, and we were brutal enough Mhmm. To take it from you.
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: I actually read a lot about that same type of thing. And this might be where you're headed. But in Africa, when the church kind of organized and decided to start sending missionaries, there were tribes in Africa that would say the missionaries come first and then the military comes afterwards. Because they would send the missionaries in as like a, we're not so bad. Hey.
• 18:26
  We're gonna try and convert you. Now the conversion was violent and horrible too. Mhmm. But it was this, oh, no. No.
• 18:32
  We're good. But then right after us comes the people who are gonna take your land and take your people, and just horrible things are coming after this. And that was what the church was known for. Like, we say that now the church is known for hate. But the church has been known for hate for a long time long time.
• 18:52
  Depending on who you are.
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: Mhmm. And what did that conversion, in quotation marks Mhmm. Look like to them? Because to me, if I were to witness to someone, I wouldn't want to force it down their throats. I'd want them to fully believe it for themselves.
• 19:13
  But if you're just converting, in quotation marks, because you're terrified, that's not something you truly believe in your heart. Right. It's just, okay. I'll just comply to whatever they say because I don't wanna get my head chopped off.
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: Right. Here's a weird little family history thing too. This is, like, totally off topic. But I just found this out, and I find this really interesting. So our family comes from Malta, which is a tiny little island near Italy.
• 19:40
  And I was researching our family last name, and it has Arabic origins, even though we're from Malta for generations and generations. And it's because for a while, Malta was taken over by Arabic countries and Arabic speaking peoples. But then Rome came through and took over Malta. And that's why they're Catholic. And I just thought that was really fascinating.
• 20:08
  I like to know the history of this stuff. Maybe you guys are bored by this. But I think that's really interesting to know that, okay, had that not happened, our family would have been primarily Muslim. And then they you know, the Romans came in and then were Catholic. And and it is interesting to see how your family
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: shook out over time. Or what could have been for your family. Right. Right. 1845, slavery and the Southern Baptist Convention split.
• 20:36
  So you think the SBC. We've talked about them quite a bit. But Southern Baptist Convention split from the Northern Baptists. And the church doesn't usually say why. Can't imagine why.
• 20:50
  But the SPC is one of the biggest Christian people groups in ever. Mhmm. There's a lot of people. The reason they split from the Northern Baptists was because of slavery and their beliefs on whether missionaries that they were sending out could be slave owners. The thought process was, how can we send out people as missionaries to the same people group as they're enslaving back home?
• 21:16
  Mhmm. How does that make sense? How does that show Jesus' love? And that's how the Southern Baptist Convention got started. And that's how it found its roots, was because the Southern Baptists said, yes.
• 21:30
  Mhmm. You can be a slave owner and be a missionary.
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: And be a missionary. Think about that. Not that anyone being a slave owner isn't horrifying, but the person who's supposed to be bringing God to a people group is like, oh, no. But I own that one. Right.
• 21:47
  Again, they get to choose pick and choose who they decide is human Right.
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: At that time. Back home, their slaves I'm assuming they're not seeing as much of a human at all because they're not treating them as you should treat a human. But then they're going to these other countries to witness and share their faith with these people that they would bring back home and enslave. Mhmm. And not have a problem with it.
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: Right. And that's another very uncomfortable part of the Bible because the Southern Baptist Convention got their justification for this from Bible verses that talk about slaves. If you are new to the bible or haven't read a lot of it, there are a lot of passages, old and new testament, that talk about slavery and not in, like, a we need to abolish this immediately kind of way. And that's another really tricky part of the Bible.
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: It's uncomfortable. And I feel like that's where you have to know the culture Mhmm. That the Bible was written in. Right. And a lot of times, the Bible is working around rules that are already in place.
• 22:54
  Mhmm. So a lot of times, you'll hear Paul speak or read Paul speak. I don't think you can
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: hear him anymore. He's shouting really loud.
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: But a lot of his writings, he will quote the Roman law first.
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: And then immediately following it, say, okay, this is how we work within this law. Well, what you see oftentimes is God protecting the people in these situations. So, like, the laws that seem awful I'm thinking for women in particular in this instance because I just did a video on this. There are a couple of times in the New Testament where Paul talks about submission, but it's like, women need to submit because that's the Roman law. Because otherwise, they can kill you.
• 23:42
  Women need to submit because otherwise, this is a scary situation for you. Not because this is a forever rule. And I think that's how you have to look at it with the verses on slavery too. But it is difficult. I I don't know how to justify much of it other than to say that the Bible was written in a very different time that I don't understand.
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: Mhmm.
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: And it's hard. However, at the time of the Southern Baptist Convention creating, it was not enough of a different time that they shouldn't have understood. They should have understood. They should have said, no. We're not doing this.
• 24:19
  But what did that give them? If they continue to justify slavery as the Southern Baptist Church did because they stayed on the side of Confederates when The US went to war, that keeps them wealthy. Right? It gives you money. It gives you status.
• 24:41
  There's a lot of things that come along with that. We know that from the culture of the time. So instead of standing up for Jesus, they stood up for power. They stood up for themselves. And you have to you have to pull yourself out of the situation.
• 24:59
  And you have to say, am I fighting for Jesus, or am I fighting for what's comfortable for me? Because the church really likes to be comfortable.
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: Well, from there, we can dive right into how did Jesus live his life. We don't have a ton about Jesus in the Bible, to be honest. We know about him briefly when he was born. And then just like a little bit when he was, what, 12 or something. And then the rest of what we know about him is just when he was a couple years before he died.
• 25:34
  Mhmm. But he made a major impact. He lived his life loving people. And what does that love look like? I think that's important to define because the Christian church has tried to redefine what that love should look like.
• 25:52
  But the original language is agape, which you've probably heard before. It isn't romantic love. It isn't conditional love. It isn't I love you if you change. It's what it lays out in first Corinthians thirteen four through seven, if you want a bible reference.
• 26:12
  Love is patient. Love is kind. It does not envy. It does not boast. It is not proud.
• 26:18
  It does not dishonor others. It's not self seeking. It's not easily angered. So Jesus shows his love of people throughout the Bible when he stands in that gap of the super religious people who want to oppress people and keep their power by making sure everybody's following all the rules. And Jesus says, No.
• 26:45
  I'm going to love people because I love people. And so you see where he touches the untouchable, the leper, and he heals him. He sits and eats with what we would call sinners. And he defends a woman who they tried to trick Jesus and say, Hey, this woman was caught in adultery. We're gonna stone her.
• 27:09
  Right, Jesus? Because she was sinning, and he looks around, and rather than says, Yes, she was sinning, but Mhmm. No, he says, whoever is without sin, go ahead. Throw the first stone.
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: I'll wait. Mhmm. And note that he could have been the person who did. Mhmm. And he didn't.
• 27:30
  He says, neither do I condemn you. Go and sin no more. I have quoted that verse at so many people this week because people really like to take the second half of that verse, go and sin no more, and totally ignore the first part of the story. Totally ignore that Jesus could have thrown the first stone. Because I've been talking to people a lot about sin lately.
• 27:57
  And can we judge others for sin? Should we love the sinner, hate the sin, as is the favored phrase of the Christians? The reality is that even Jesus doesn't hate parts of you. Jesus could have thrown the first stone. He had the ability to because he said, whoever's without sin.
• 28:21
  He was without sin. He could have done that, and he didn't. And then he followed it up by saying, neither do I condemn you. I'm not sending you to hell. Now there's a lot of theories on what was going on with this woman, and we've actually done an episode
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: on episode on it. So go back and listen to that one
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: if you haven't. That's what love is. Love isn't throwing someone else's sin in their face. Love isn't pointing out all of someone's flaws. Now the church will try and tell you that it is because absolutely countless church people, just all the time, will say, I love you so much that I can't let you live in sin or continue to sin or whatever.
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: I need to speak truth in love. Don't you just
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: hate that? Doesn't that give you the Yes.
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: They've just decided that they're gonna take what the Bible so beautifully defines as love Mhmm. And say, actually, I'm gonna redefine it.
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: Mhmm. That one doesn't work for me.
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: So So I know that it says to, like, not point out someone splinter in their eye if I have a log in my own. But hey Mhmm. I need to speak truth to you because I love you so much. Right. I love you so much.
• 29:36
  But I'm also, in that same breath, gonna say, I'm not gonna be friends with you because you're an unbeliever. Mhmm. And okay. It's like
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: sharing your faith story with someone. Right? People like to just do this to people, throw their faith at them, and run away. Mhmm. And we always say not to do that.
• 29:53
  Like, you should have a relationship with someone. If you're gonna share your faith with someone, it should be someone that you know.
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: God will put them in your path and assume that God will make an opportunity very blatantly obvious. Mhmm.
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: But before that, you have to know that person.
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: They have to trust you enough to share and we've talked about this before too, but share their fears, their worries, just
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: how their day is before they're gonna open themselves up and talk about their faith. Right. And I think the same is true for sin in this instance. There are certain times in the bible where we are called to look at someone and say, I I love you so much that I wanna protect you from x y z. That I wanna help you through x y z.
• 30:41
  But it shouldn't just be, like, the neighbor across the street that you saw drinking the other day. You know? That's not the situation. The situation is, I have a preexisting relationship with you. I know what's going on in your life.
• 30:55
  You know what's going on in my life, and I'm worried for you. So I've prayed this through. I've taken time with God. And now here are some things that in actual real love, in first Corinthian style love, I'm gonna say to you. And let me say that's 1% of the time that should ever happen.
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: I also feel like a lot of Christian people say they're looking for opportunities to witness to people. They're looking for these opportunities to witness to people. And I would like to argue, how about we look for opportunities to love people? Because through that, through our love, people will see God's love through us. Mhmm.
• 31:44
  And maybe they'll start thinking, oh, the Christian people
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: aren't so full of hate and rebranded love.
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: Right. Maybe they actually want to be the hands and feet of Jesus. Right. Because this is how Jesus lived his life here on Earth. He loved outrageously.
• 32:04
  He was woke for the time. That's another thing that people like to throw at us in the comments. Quit trying to wokeify the Bible. Jesus was woke. I don't know how else to explain this to you.
• 32:16
  He was radical Mhmm. For the time. And if you're reading the Bible any other way, you're reading it wrong. Mhmm.
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: And if love doesn't feel like love Yes. Can we just say that, like, your rebranded version of love where you speak truth at people's faces. If they don't receive it as love, it's not love. It doesn't matter what words you choose to use. It's not.
• 32:44
  It's not love.
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: Or you go at someone and you say, we care about your soul.
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Okay. But can you care about, like, my person? Right. Right.
• 32:54
  And that's what kills me about, like, politics and stuff today. And I don't know that we wanna go into this super deeply, but if you aren't caring about someone's physical needs, you don't get to care about their soul. You don't. If you're taking away rights for food assistance, for medical care, for all of these other things that people need just to live day to day. If you don't care about that stuff, you don't care about their soul.
• 33:25
  And you shouldn't pretend that you do. You've made a video recently on Instagram, TikTok, all
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: the social medias about individualism. And I think Christianity has become so individual. And you think about, like, James Dobson, who said Christianity should be within the home and the family. Mhmm. And really harped on the importance of the family rather than the community.
• 33:49
  Right. The neighborhood. Love your neighbor, not just your own nuclear family. That's another way that Christian people have rebranded love Mhmm. Is just really caring about their own small little community rather than reaching out.
• 34:08
  Yeah. The common good. Right. What's gonna help the most group of people rather than just me?
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: I think that leads us really well too into Into. We into nationalism. And I think this is a global problem, but I wanna start us off in one of the worst times in history, and that's World War two. I have heard many times over the last year as we see what's happening globally, but particularly for us in The US. And people have said, what you're doing right now is what you would have done in 1942 Germany.
• 34:48
  Because in 1942 Germany, the Christian church, the Protestant Christian church, you can't even blame the Catholics now, aligned with the Nazi party. They said, yes. This is what god wanted because of a hyper nationalistic viewpoint. Because they said it's us against them. I have to protect my family above all else.
• 35:14
  And anyone who looks different from me, anyone who believes different from me isn't human. And so, of course, I mean, we all know what happened. Right? We all saw well, we I I wasn't born, but we can see from the history books what happened here. Because the church aligned with power.
• 35:35
  Because the church then did exactly what the church is doing now and said people aren't important. The people in this building are important. Your pastor doesn't talk about that. Right. Your pastor doesn't often say, Jesus died on the cross for the person that you despise the most.
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: And really think about that. Alyssa and I were talking about that right before we started. I wanna say filming so bad. And it's just recording. It's just recording.
• 36:04
  But often, the people that hate us the most are Christian men.
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, seriously.
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: And Jesus died on the cross for them. Mhmm.
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: And it's interesting. That's hard for me sometimes. Especially when I wanna be really sassy.
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: And it's a lot easier to align yourself with power if you forget that little detail. Mhmm. That Jesus died on the cross for everyone. And it's easier to get rid of those people to maintain your power if you don't see them as human anymore. Right.
• 36:38
  Which is exactly what's happened throughout time, what we've talked about this entire hour. Mhmm. But specifically in in Nazi Germany, they looked at the Jewish people and said, you're not human.
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: Mhmm. And remember that in all of these instances, these people were not abandoning faith. They weren't technically now I would argue that they didn't really know Jesus. But technically, they were not saying, I'm walking away from Jesus. They were simply taking the bible and reshaping it so that it fit the narrative that they wanted, so that it kept them aligned with power.
• 37:15
  And people are willing to do that all the time because people love power.
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: And just scroll through our comment section.
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: Oh, good heavens.
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. The videos about women in leadership before submission. Just scroll through the comment section and look at the absolute desperation of men. Mhmm. Trying to justify maintaining their power at any cost.
• 37:42
  Mhmm.
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: And if you've ever wondered, like, is feminism still necessary? You won't wonder after you look through the comments on one of those va we had one guy who literally just said women are property.
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And I
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: was wondering how That's
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: a pretty bold statement, but he's not
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: the only person to think that. And I believe that comment was liked by other people. So if you ever wonder, if you're ever not sure, or look at the names we get called Mhmm. Just for being women with a voice. How dare we?
• 38:10
  How what are we thinking? Now lest you think that nationalism is a US problem, unfortunately, it's not. And I think looking at it from a global lens might help some people realize this isn't good. Because if we're just in our bubble and you only look at the people around you who look like you, then you might think, hey, this is good for the people around me. Therefore, it must be good for everyone.
• 38:38
  But it's not. And you can see nationalism rising up through different countries and different religions. In India, you're seeing Hindu nationalism rise up. Israel is seeing Jewish nationalism. Turkey is seeing Islamic nationalism.
• 38:54
  Brazil is actually having an evangelical nationalism. But all of those people are using the same justification that Christians are using here. According to some I'll read you just, like, minimal stats because you know I like stats. Now the Pew Research Center shows that a I'm sorry. What?
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: It's p e w. I assume it's pew like a church pew. Right? I thought you just said puberty. No.
• 39:21
  The Puberty Research Center.
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: That's a different center. We don't want to go there. No. I'm past that. They showed that a lot of countries globally are seeing increased government restrictions tied to religion.
• 39:35
  So that's the interesting part about this where it comes from. Because of that, you're now seeing social hostilities in religious spaces. And part of the idea of why this nationalism could be happening is that people are feeling unstable. Those traditions that maybe their families are used to, that their ancestors were used to, are shifting. Culture is shifting.
• 40:06
  So instead of saying, okay, things are shifting. That's just how society is. People are grabbing on tight to their traditions, to their faith structures, to their restrictions even, and saying, no. No. No.
• 40:21
  This is what's good. Because instead of being a gray area that's maybe uncomfortable that you have to navigate and figure out and deconstruct, religion, all religions, give a lot of black and white. They give clear rules and regulations. They tell you who's in and who's out. And for a lot of people, that's comforting.
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: I also feel like it's a way to very easily get your way without having to justify it Mhmm. If that makes sense. Rather than looking at statistics on, like, hey, for example, gun control.
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: Let's really rile the people up.
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: In other countries, they have these restrictions, and they see less gun violence. So rather than applying that here, we're saying, No, no, no, our freedom. And then somehow slap God's name onto it. Right. Or rather, just looking at what would be most beneficial for everybody.
• 41:28
  How would this society function better? Mhmm. That doesn't matter. How can we maintain our power? Oh, slap God's
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: name onto it. Right. Well, and you see this coming from politicians too. Obviously, we see in our government, but you're seeing in governments around the world where they take religion and they weaponize it. They say, you can only keep your identity as a Christian if you vote this way.
• 41:53
  And people are sitting there and they're like, well well, I'm a Christian. I I must do this thing because I'm being told if I don't do this thing, then I lose my identity. My faith. Yeah. That's a big deal.
• 42:08
  God is going to be angry at me Mhmm. If I don't follow the leader. And that is scary for people. And I don't wanna give people excuses for evil deeds. Don't get me wrong.
• 42:19
  And yet at the same time, I can see where it's easy to slip into this. If you aren't vigilant about saying, I am going to read the Bible, I'm gonna understand what God really says, and I'm gonna fight for that. So that's our jobs. That is how we be the hands and feet of Jesus. And we have to call out some of the bad too.
• 42:46
  I've been getting some comments lately about, like, can you just not say that thing online? Like, have your opinion if you want, but be a little bit quieter about it. Must you constantly stir the pot? Yes, Teresa. We must.
• 43:02
  Sorry, mom. And I understand on some level from, like, a safety perspective, but it is our jobs. It is our jobs to stand up for what's right and not be silent and not cave to the pressure of crappy people who want to tell us who God is. And I
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: think it's especially important right now where there is so much hate around the name of God Mhmm. Around the name of Jesus because of the church, it's important to let people know that's not true. Mhmm. I'm thinking the immigrants, the LGBTQ plus community. There is love out there for you within the Christian people.
• 43:56
  Mhmm. And just because these people are screaming really loud and saying that God doesn't love you doesn't mean that's true. Right. And we're here. Here we are, the loving, safe people.
• 44:10
  We are because you're people. Right. And Jesus loves people. God didn't make us to hate us. There's a reverend who wrote a book called that, and I need to actually read it.
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah. There was a politician recently. He got up, and I'm not sure if there was a connection. Like, he read the book or not, but he is a gay representative for one of the states. I'm not sure which one.
• 44:33
  And he was talking about a gay rights bill and said, God didn't make me to hate me. I loved that. It was so so impactful. It just makes you wanna cry.
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: I could dive so much deeper into this. We will. We will. We'll get there. Don't worry.
• 44:48
  Next week, we're gonna dive into that topic a little bit more. Maybe I'll buy that book real quick and read it real quick. Super speedy reading. Super speedy About the idea, especially in the Baptist people, the little Baptist girls that we grew up, there's so much self hate. Yes.
• 45:08
  You're born a sinner. God saved a wretch like me. Mhmm. And you start to hate yourself. Yeah.
• 45:17
  And then you start to question as you start to deconstruct, why did God make people that he hated so much? Mhmm. Maybe that's not true.
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I just as, like, my own little thoughts that I've been having, we always talk about how we're God's children. Right? And you'll hear that all the time, especially I know we harp on the Baptist, but that's how we grew up. So deal with it.
• 45:44
  And you'll hear, oh, God loves you so much because you're his child, but then you're supposed to hate yourself. You're supposed to see all the sin, God God forgave you in spite of it, and aren't you lucky. I don't hate my kids. I adore them even when they do awful things, even when they drive me insane. God doesn't hate you.
• 46:10
  God doesn't hate you even when you do the wrong thing. He didn't make you to hate you. He knows exactly who you are, and he loves you. And maybe that lets you go on a nicer note this week than we do sometimes.
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: I like how this entire episode were like, oh. Get ready for next week.
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: That's how the pastors do it. We're learning from the pastors. And on a happy note so they come back.
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: If we end on sad, then they think not so much.
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: Well, I don't want to be depressed again. And that juice tasted weird.
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: Okay. Why is communion juice so bad?
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: I don't know. It used to be good. It did. It used to be
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: like grape juice, and now it's disgusting. It used to be a real Welch's.
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: And now they come in those little prepackaged containers after
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: the vid, and it tastes like acid. Acid. It's all Crackers like Styrofoam.
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: I don't think that's food grade. I think someone should look into that.
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: If you guys are not regular church goers, this little segment might be very confusing.
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: Have you heard of communion? During COVID, we had to do it with a Capri Sun and a Cheez It. Yeah.
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: We did. But we were staying home. Yeah. I forgot about that. Okay.
• 47:24
  So next week, we will talk about that. If you're wondering what we do on social media, we actually are super active over there. And frankly, we anger most of the world. So come join us and back us up because we need it.
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Back us up. But also feel free to message us and comment on the videos of other videos you would like to get more information on, you'd like to see, because we've done some video responses recently. We have. Meaning you.
• 47:51
  You've done them.
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: Well, I do them, and then Brie responds to the comments because my emotions can't handle that.
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: And I like it. Okay. So we will talk to you
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: guys about that next week. Find us on TikTok and Instagram at the we are more. And, yeah, that's all I have to say
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: to you this week.
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: Peace be with you. And also with you. Love you. Bye.
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: It gets with your spirit now. What? That can't be right. Oh, no. I think it is.
• 48:16
  I haven't been to church Bye. Love you. Bye.