Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Natalee Holloway update; child dies as mom gets high; Texas realtor goes missing

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Natalee Holloway update; child dies as mom gets high; Texas realtor goes missing · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace on Sirius XIM Triumph Channel one two,
1:46
Speaker 1: two thousand five. On the small island of a Rubot,
1:48
Speaker 1: Natalie Holloway was with friends at a local bar where
1:50
Speaker 1: she was last seen getting a ride with Uron Vandersloughte.
1:53
Speaker 1: Natalie's disappearance remains a mystery. Her dad says that he
1:57
Speaker 1: had a private eye found human remains and the robot.
2:00
Speaker 1: We took those remains and had them remains tested, and
2:03
Speaker 1: they just returned last week. That's her human remains. Will
2:06
Speaker 1: there be able to be some kind of test Ave
2:08
Speaker 1: that will be answer once and for all whether this
2:09
Speaker 1: is Natalie. We're in the process of doing a DNA test.
2:12
Speaker 1: Dave Holloway says that a friend of a man who
2:15
Speaker 1: was once suspected in her disappearance tipped them off. I
2:18
Speaker 1: know that there's a possibility this could be someone else,
2:20
Speaker 1: and I'm just trying to wait and see. Your daughter
2:26
Speaker 1: goes on her senior trip everything's fine, heavily chaperone, she
2:32
Speaker 1: has a sunny disposition. She's surrounded by friends that seemingly
2:36
Speaker 1: won't leave her side when she's at home. The next
2:39
Speaker 1: thing you hear she doesn't make her playing back. You
2:43
Speaker 1: never see your daughter dead or alive again. That's what
2:50
Speaker 1: has happened the fate of the parents of Natalie Holloway,
2:54
Speaker 1: and at this hour is their new hope in the case.
3:00
Speaker 1: I Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank you for
3:02
Speaker 1: being with us. Quote. I hope we can bring peace
3:06
Speaker 1: and justice to Natalie's family. This from a forensic scientist
3:13
Speaker 1: that I'm calling Dr Bones. This guy's name is Dr
3:19
Speaker 1: Jason Kolowski and he is now working with Natalie Holloway's parents,
3:24
Speaker 1: David Beth Holloway to hopefully end this twelve year case.
3:29
Speaker 1: Now this is a break. We now learned that a
3:33
Speaker 1: saliva sample from the mother, Beth Holloway, has been used.
3:37
Speaker 1: She gave a bugle swab. That saliva sample from Beth
3:42
Speaker 1: has been tested. That is going to be compared to
3:47
Speaker 1: Bones that we have been directed too. And as it
3:50
Speaker 1: turns out, this informant Ur Harris, Emmy Award winning reporter
3:57
Speaker 1: joining us who covered the case in a ruba along
4:00
Speaker 1: with me when Natalie first went missing. In a prior
4:02
Speaker 1: podcast on the Natalie Holloway case on Wednesday, August, we
4:07
Speaker 1: mistakenly identified a person named Gabriel as someone Nancy had
4:10
Speaker 1: previously interviewed when the Holloway case was ongoing, and we
4:14
Speaker 1: made comments about Gabriel thinking he was the person Nancy
4:17
Speaker 1: had interviewed before. In fact, the person named Gabriel is
4:20
Speaker 1: not that person. Nancy Grayson Crime Stories apologized for the confusion.
4:25
Speaker 1: But aside from Gabriel, what does this mean that they
4:28
Speaker 1: brought in Dr Jason Kolowski with me? Is Aunt Harris,
4:33
Speaker 1: investigative reporter and a renowned medical examiner joining me out
4:36
Speaker 1: of Madison Heights, Wisconsin. Dr William Moroney, the author of
4:41
Speaker 1: a brand new book American Narcan Okay Art. What about
4:46
Speaker 1: this dodger? Why has he been brought in? This specialist?
4:49
Speaker 1: What does he know that other doctors may not know? Nancy?
4:53
Speaker 1: Dr Calowski worked at Ground zero after nine eleven. He's
4:56
Speaker 1: an expert on the DNA that you described. Marty Comuel
4:59
Speaker 1: bem a come from the mother. They have best Holloway
5:02
Speaker 1: saliva and that is what they used to trace these
5:05
Speaker 1: bone fragments found in Aruba from to someone from an
5:09
Speaker 1: Eastern European heritage. That's Natalie. So they have narrowed it
5:13
Speaker 1: to something generic or general. They know it's a woman,
5:16
Speaker 1: they know it's she's from eastern Eastern Europe. Now they've
5:20
Speaker 1: got to get a more definitive answer about about Natalie.
5:25
Speaker 1: And that is what this dr classed. He's doing similar
5:28
Speaker 1: testing to what he did with remains at Ground zero
5:32
Speaker 1: utter accidents. That's that's pretty impressive. I was there in
5:35
Speaker 1: New York the day of September eleven, and I'll never
5:41
Speaker 1: forget it as long as I live. And to the
5:45
Speaker 1: brave heroes that worked Ground zero, God bless them. And
5:50
Speaker 1: now he's back back on the scene joining me right now,
5:53
Speaker 1: Medical Examiner Dr William Maroney. Dr Maroney, I can't get
5:58
Speaker 1: away though, that this is based on something that we
6:02
Speaker 1: have gotten sideways through Tom, then Dick, than Harry, including Gabriel.
6:09
Speaker 1: Take a listen to what this informant Gabriel had to say.
6:16
Speaker 1: I've been undercover working with John. He is not a
6:20
Speaker 1: person that you want to be around because he's not
6:23
Speaker 1: mentally stable. To get more more out of John, I
6:28
Speaker 1: actually started living with him three months ago. That's when
6:31
Speaker 1: he told me everything. How did you meet him? How Well,
6:35
Speaker 1: before I ever moved to a rub up, gave me
6:38
Speaker 1: an opportunity to move her house there and take care
6:40
Speaker 1: of business for a while and live alone. So I
6:43
Speaker 1: took the opportunity to win, and I meet your on.
6:47
Speaker 1: We bumped into each other one day and gave me
6:49
Speaker 1: his number and ended up children. He was my friend
6:53
Speaker 1: at the beginning, but then I find out what kind
6:57
Speaker 1: of individual he really really was. She right in her
7:02
Speaker 1: grave over what she did to my guy, putting the
7:05
Speaker 1: magi over all these years, I should passed on their grave,
7:08
Speaker 1: for it's really hard to to listen to somebody talk
7:13
Speaker 1: that way. You know, he discussed me because me as
7:17
Speaker 1: a father, I have two girls, and if I was
7:19
Speaker 1: in Dave Holloway's position, I would do anything to try
7:24
Speaker 1: to find my daughter. You guys do not know what
7:28
Speaker 1: it is to live with John. So bottom line, Dr
7:32
Speaker 1: William Moroney, Uh, the bones will speak for themselves, but
7:35
Speaker 1: we're partially relying on tricking somebody, an undercovered person being
7:42
Speaker 1: miked up and getting somebody to talk about the night
7:45
Speaker 1: Natalie Holloway was body was supposedly disposed of. Dr Moroney,
7:51
Speaker 1: you're the expert. Explain to me how a bugle swab,
7:55
Speaker 1: a saliva swap is going to from her mother is
7:59
Speaker 1: going to identify these Well, you need uh genetic material.
8:04
Speaker 1: You need material from the nucleus of cells. That's the
8:10
Speaker 1: center of the cell that contains all the information how
8:12
Speaker 1: things are reproduced and replicated and remanufactured in the cells
8:17
Speaker 1: over and over. And they use a boocle swab because
8:22
Speaker 1: we don't like blood tests for this because red blood
8:26
Speaker 1: cells don't have a nucleus. They have when they're first
8:29
Speaker 1: manufactured and then they get rid of it, so that's
8:32
Speaker 1: not the good cell. The only reason we did blood
8:35
Speaker 1: testing in the beginnings is genetics came from blood labs
8:40
Speaker 1: um and then we soon learned that that was the
8:44
Speaker 1: wrong cell. In boocle cells are going to have that nucleus.
8:49
Speaker 1: Everybody learns in biology that every cell has a nucleus
8:52
Speaker 1: and that's where the genetic material is. And maternal DNA
8:57
Speaker 1: from the mitochondria is shorter and easier to repeat. If
9:02
Speaker 1: I had to give you like a picture in your head,
9:05
Speaker 1: mitochondrial DNA is like a bowl of spaghettios and regular
9:12
Speaker 1: DNA flopping around is like a big long bowl full
9:17
Speaker 1: of mixed up, tied up knots of linguini, and spaghettios
9:22
Speaker 1: are easier to manufacture and study been tied up knots
9:27
Speaker 1: of linguini. That's the difference pictorially of regular DNA versus
9:36
Speaker 1: migochondrial DNI. And the most important part of that is
9:40
Speaker 1: all of those spaghettios, whether you're a man or a woman,
9:44
Speaker 1: are inherited from the mother only, and that's why it's
9:49
Speaker 1: an easier match. And this DNA expert has got some
9:54
Speaker 1: of the credentials from really good schools out of New York,
9:58
Speaker 1: and he's been a crime scene investigator, and mitochondrial DNA
10:02
Speaker 1: in the last ten years has really become more standard.
10:05
Speaker 1: It was way too experimental something else, Dr Maroney. According
10:10
Speaker 1: to Dr Jason Kolowski, he's analyzing bone fragments. I thought
10:17
Speaker 1: that full bones were found Art Harris. I thought they
10:21
Speaker 1: found bones that they knew were human bones. But this
10:27
Speaker 1: says he's analyzing bone fragments. I mean, what do we
10:30
Speaker 1: know are about where the bones were found and the
10:33
Speaker 1: condition of the bones. Man thing really know is that
10:36
Speaker 1: this informant was friends with Joan Vanderslon's good friend who
10:41
Speaker 1: helped them bury the body. You're telling me that he
10:45
Speaker 1: secretly wired himself to get this guy, John Tom to
10:51
Speaker 1: confess about hiding the body. Right, they hold They go
10:55
Speaker 1: to this remote area and they do a dig and
10:58
Speaker 1: they come back with, as he said, fragments bone fragments
11:02
Speaker 1: that the rubid prosecutors dismisses animal bones, Nancy, but very
11:08
Speaker 1: apparently did not do the testing, as they never have.
11:11
Speaker 1: And so these were secreted out of the country and
11:15
Speaker 1: tested and determined to be human remains according to Dave
11:20
Speaker 1: Hollwood's scientists, and then those human remains were traced, as
11:24
Speaker 1: we discussed to a woman of Eastern European to set
11:29
Speaker 1: decent giving hope that it could be modeling. So that's
11:31
Speaker 1: what they're waiting for. End hold on, I want to
11:33
Speaker 1: I want to go back and visit an issue. You know,
11:36
Speaker 1: I don't have any use at all for the government
11:39
Speaker 1: in a room, but none whatsoever because these prosecutors he
11:43
Speaker 1: when the family came down there desperate to find their daughter,
11:47
Speaker 1: they didn't so much as lift a finger to help them.
11:49
Speaker 1: Everything was dead end and they let Paulice Vanderslute Vanderslute's father,
11:54
Speaker 1: who was a judge in Aruba cover up the whole thing.
11:58
Speaker 1: Now they're claiming that this wasn't human bones. These were
12:02
Speaker 1: not human bones that Dave Holloway, now his dad found.
12:07
Speaker 1: But here I've got Dave Holloway, her father saying it's
12:12
Speaker 1: human bones. And Dr William Maroney, you you kind of
12:16
Speaker 1: know this, doctor Jason Kolowski, he is saying, not only
12:21
Speaker 1: are they human bones, but it's a female of Eastern
12:24
Speaker 1: European descent. So who am I going to believe the
12:27
Speaker 1: prosecutors that you know, you gotta take what they say
12:30
Speaker 1: with a box of salt. Okay, not not a dad,
12:34
Speaker 1: not a spoon, but a box of salt, and I'm
12:37
Speaker 1: gonna believe them over Dave Holloway and a a guy
12:41
Speaker 1: that even you, Dr Maroney seemed to respect. Yeah. I
12:45
Speaker 1: think what's really important is he comes with the credentials
12:49
Speaker 1: in at least ten or fifteen years of good experience.
12:52
Speaker 1: He started out as a crime scene investigator in New York.
12:56
Speaker 1: And oftentimes we see people after months and months for years,
13:01
Speaker 1: and they are remains, they are not intact skeletons, and
13:05
Speaker 1: there's nothing there. Why would like a leg bone. Why
13:08
Speaker 1: would a leg bone that's been buried suddenly turn into fragments.
13:12
Speaker 1: I don't understand that part of that comes in in
13:15
Speaker 1: the decay process. There are animals and insects later in
13:21
Speaker 1: the last stage of decay that na separate and sequester
13:28
Speaker 1: bones away. So it's not a biological problem where it
13:32
Speaker 1: breaks down or the victim was chopped up and you
13:39
Speaker 1: have to be able to see those. If they took
13:41
Speaker 1: bones out of the country and they find blade and
13:45
Speaker 1: serrated marks on the bones, then we'll know that you're
13:49
Speaker 1: in Vandersloot, cutting into Natalie Holloway into pieces to get
13:55
Speaker 1: her into a car, into a car. To God, I
14:00
Speaker 1: pray to God that the hollow Ways are not listening
14:04
Speaker 1: to this go ahead, are to support that Nancy. This
14:07
Speaker 1: this so called Gabriel. This witness and friend of jan
14:11
Speaker 1: Vantas Flute, reported that the judge his father came to
14:15
Speaker 1: the beach where Natalie supposedly had o deed or choked
14:19
Speaker 1: on her own salat vomit after taking g h D
14:23
Speaker 1: slipped to her by Joan Vantage, who go She is
14:26
Speaker 1: on the beach unconscious and then dies. According to this witness,
14:31
Speaker 1: the father says she's dead, yurin. He then helps put
14:35
Speaker 1: her into a burout bag he's brought from the house
14:38
Speaker 1: and has to push her and bend her over to
14:41
Speaker 1: get her into the bag and then into the trunk.
14:43
Speaker 1: And then it's off to the forest to dig the hole.
14:46
Speaker 1: And that is supposedly where they found her. After this
14:50
Speaker 1: guy goes back to the original place marked by a
14:53
Speaker 1: cactus and takes the remains to a forest, and that
14:57
Speaker 1: is where we are. You know, hold on, you got
15:02
Speaker 1: me as far as you believe. Judge Paul's Vanderslute shows
15:06
Speaker 1: up with a barrel at bag, bends her and contorts
15:09
Speaker 1: her to put her in the bag. Said okay, says
15:12
Speaker 1: she's dead, puts her in the bag, and then what
15:14
Speaker 1: did you say about a cactus? Slow it down, man,
15:16
Speaker 1: slow it down, okay, Nancy. So after that you're in
15:21
Speaker 1: the Wrexus Son put the body in the trunk, then
15:24
Speaker 1: drive to a remote area and dig a hole and
15:28
Speaker 1: mark that spot by a cactus, and according to this documentary,
15:32
Speaker 1: tells them don't ever say a word to anybody about this.
15:35
Speaker 1: But later he feels a need to move the body
15:39
Speaker 1: and recruits the guy who is he yourn or Paulus
15:44
Speaker 1: n feels it feels he's got to move the body
15:47
Speaker 1: and find this friend who the Ludwick, who then goes
15:53
Speaker 1: and digs it up with him and they take it
15:56
Speaker 1: to another area and bury bury the owns that will
16:00
Speaker 1: bury the body that are now turned into fragments. Uh.
16:04
Speaker 1: And this was done with the help of h Then
16:08
Speaker 1: then the witness that we have here's the story and
16:12
Speaker 1: tells the father and investigators T J. Ward that leads
16:17
Speaker 1: them to this spot. They've harvested these fragments and they
16:23
Speaker 1: have gotten them out of the country and contrary to
16:25
Speaker 1: what the Luban authorities say, they are human remains, not
16:30
Speaker 1: animal remains. So that is what's being analyzed. We won't
16:33
Speaker 1: know the results or until sometime next month, you know
16:38
Speaker 1: Dr William Maroney joining me along with Art Harris. Dr Maroney,
16:42
Speaker 1: you know what really burned me up. Another thing is
16:45
Speaker 1: that while all of this is going on, with the
16:47
Speaker 1: father trumping as far away as nicaragu want to find
16:50
Speaker 1: out about his daughter. You know what they have to
16:53
Speaker 1: say when all this uh happens thanks to the Oxygen Network,
16:58
Speaker 1: who's basically sponsored the whole thing, they're saying, well, hey, guys,
17:03
Speaker 1: that's a crime to take a human bone eut the body.
17:07
Speaker 1: You know what, Really, that's what they've got to say.
17:11
Speaker 1: I mean, according to this doctor and according to Dave Holloway,
17:15
Speaker 1: two people I tend to trust, it is a human
17:18
Speaker 1: bone and very possibly Natalie's, and that's all they've got
17:22
Speaker 1: to say. They should be saying, you know, let us
17:25
Speaker 1: help you, let us be part of this, because if
17:28
Speaker 1: this is Natalie, we want to prosecute. Instead they're going
17:31
Speaker 1: Nanny Nanni, boo boo. You can't take the bone out
17:34
Speaker 1: of the country. There is no way in h double
17:37
Speaker 1: l I would hand that fragment over to a Reuben authorities,
17:42
Speaker 1: Dr Maroney, because without that there may be no case.
17:46
Speaker 1: And there's only two kinds of the animals in a
17:49
Speaker 1: Ruba that they could possibly be. If you want to
17:51
Speaker 1: talk about native animals to Ruba's, it would be got
17:57
Speaker 1: and donkeys. So they're saying that more donkey bones were
18:01
Speaker 1: found because they're saying the animal there's except for decos
18:05
Speaker 1: and lizards. There's nothing else on a Ruba, some goats
18:10
Speaker 1: and donkeys, and they will definitely be able to tell
18:14
Speaker 1: the difference between human bones and goat or human bones
18:19
Speaker 1: and donkeys. All across America. The first thing you learn
18:23
Speaker 1: in fence agathapologies how to tell the difference between like
18:26
Speaker 1: gear bones and human bones in rural settings. So it's
18:31
Speaker 1: a primary skill. So they'll really be able to nail
18:33
Speaker 1: that one hard. I mean, this guy is no slouch,
18:37
Speaker 1: Dr Maroney. He went to Cornell and Cuney. He's written
18:43
Speaker 1: a textbook on forensic science, and he helped head up
18:46
Speaker 1: set up New York's first mitochondrial DNA lab. I mean,
18:50
Speaker 1: so he is no slump. And if he says this
18:55
Speaker 1: and you respect him, it's very hard for me to
18:58
Speaker 1: believe that Dave hall Way would lie about this. One
19:02
Speaker 1: more thing, Dr Maroni, Since we know Beth Holloway has
19:06
Speaker 1: provided a bagle swab, a saliva swab, and we know
19:11
Speaker 1: these aren't human bones according to this doctor, how long
19:15
Speaker 1: till we get a result? You're probably looking at six
19:19
Speaker 1: eight weeks because of the chemical processes. It's difficult in time,
19:24
Speaker 1: but they need sixty eight weeks, almost two months before
19:27
Speaker 1: they get the DNA data back, aren't Harris, Dr William Moroney,
19:32
Speaker 1: We are on it. Do you remember what your children
19:36
Speaker 1: were like at age two? I do, Uh, they barely
19:40
Speaker 1: came up to my knee if they had just learned
19:44
Speaker 1: to walk. They were extremely premature and everything took longer
19:48
Speaker 1: for them, and they would be fascinated by something as
19:52
Speaker 1: simple as a water sprinkler. And I would spend every
19:56
Speaker 1: single moment I could with them. I remember um giving
20:01
Speaker 1: them a bath, and it would be time for me
20:04
Speaker 1: to go to CNN H l ANN to work, and
20:08
Speaker 1: they would be so upset when I would leave, I
20:09
Speaker 1: would have to walk out without shoes on. I'd have
20:13
Speaker 1: the shoes outside, climb out the playroom window soaking wet
20:18
Speaker 1: from the bath. My clothes will be wet, and put
20:21
Speaker 1: my shoes on outside because if they saw me put
20:24
Speaker 1: my shoes on, they would know I was going somewhere,
20:26
Speaker 1: or if they saw me change into any nice clothes
20:28
Speaker 1: at all. They were so dependent and so precious, And
20:35
Speaker 1: that is why the story of a mother of four
20:40
Speaker 1: getting high on heroin and the front seat of her
20:44
Speaker 1: car while her two year old taught girl just two
20:49
Speaker 1: years old, hanged herself on a seat belt trying to escape.
20:59
Speaker 1: And here's the kicker. This is mommy's third one too
21:04
Speaker 1: three repeat, third child neglect charge m M. The two
21:12
Speaker 1: year old little girl, the taught girl is dead. All
21:16
Speaker 1: this occurs while the mom, Diana Joseph, gets high in
21:22
Speaker 1: the car. The little girl got tangled in the seatbelt
21:27
Speaker 1: trying to escape the car. This after Diana Joseph was
21:32
Speaker 1: already convicted of sleeping while her son was in a
21:38
Speaker 1: hot bathtub. This time police say they found heroine residue
21:44
Speaker 1: and rocks of crack with her. Oh oops, I almost forgot.
21:49
Speaker 1: Then she was arrested another time for leaving her other
21:52
Speaker 1: two children home alone. She was in a parking lot
21:56
Speaker 1: then too. Hi. She's been convicted many times over the
22:01
Speaker 1: last twenty years. She's just thirty nine for drugs and
22:05
Speaker 1: other charges. And now this little girl is dead. I
22:10
Speaker 1: wish you could see the selfie that she posts of
22:13
Speaker 1: her online and a tight pink the neck t shirt
22:18
Speaker 1: looking all uh Kim Kardashian at the screen. I mean,
22:22
Speaker 1: you know what, she ain't gonna look that good behind bars.
22:25
Speaker 1: That's all I can say. Joining me right now. In
22:28
Speaker 1: addition to Dr William Moroney, we're now a medical examiner
22:32
Speaker 1: out of Madison Heights, Wisconsin and author of a brand
22:35
Speaker 1: new book available on Amazon, American Narkian How to Fight
22:40
Speaker 1: the Opioid epidemic and save your own family. Also with
22:44
Speaker 1: me Crime Stories, contributing reporter Drew Nelson, Drew, tell me,
22:50
Speaker 1: let me understand exactly what happened. I know this much,
22:54
Speaker 1: cops said. Diana Joseph is stoned out of her gourd
22:58
Speaker 1: yet again, this time on heroin. She was arrested by
23:01
Speaker 1: Alloway Township police in New Jersey High on heroin. Like
23:05
Speaker 1: you said, the story is, she had this little girl
23:09
Speaker 1: strapped into the car seat in the back seat. She
23:11
Speaker 1: went driving after she got loaded, and then she came home.
23:18
Speaker 1: She parked in the driveway. We have no idea how
23:22
Speaker 1: long she was parked there before she woke up and
23:25
Speaker 1: called to say that the two the two year old
23:28
Speaker 1: little girl, uh, she couldn't wake her up in the
23:31
Speaker 1: back seat. And then the police say she uh. Now
23:34
Speaker 1: I'm quoting from the police here. They say that she
23:36
Speaker 1: injured herself struggling in the car seat. So now they
23:40
Speaker 1: have to do the autopsy to confirm the official cause
23:43
Speaker 1: of death. Dr William Roney Drew Nelson just said, they
23:49
Speaker 1: still are trying to german exactly what happened. White. I
23:52
Speaker 1: thought it was decided that the little girl, the two
23:56
Speaker 1: year old little girl was trying to get out of
23:59
Speaker 1: the car and was struggling with the seat belt and
24:03
Speaker 1: hung herself. Why is there a possibility something even more
24:08
Speaker 1: sinister happened? I mean, they can't tell that. I mean,
24:10
Speaker 1: I know mommy was high in the car. According to
24:13
Speaker 1: police on heroin are the is there a suggestion it
24:16
Speaker 1: could be another raison? The girl was strangled, No of
24:20
Speaker 1: the the way it happens, though, is at that age
24:23
Speaker 1: and at many different um stages of development. The head
24:28
Speaker 1: of a child is disproportionately larger than the body, and
24:34
Speaker 1: while they can walk and crawl, sometimes they have difficulty
24:39
Speaker 1: using arms and legs to escape things. And that's probably
24:43
Speaker 1: what happened. She tried to get out of the chair
24:46
Speaker 1: and what ordinarily would be a seatbelt strapped across her
24:50
Speaker 1: chest and shoulders suddenly pulled up into her throat and
24:57
Speaker 1: neck and with a disparate, fortunately large head in a
25:02
Speaker 1: tight seatbelt, her tight buckledown would not have allowed her
25:09
Speaker 1: hands or legs to free her. And that's struggling to
25:15
Speaker 1: get out. Then she'd lose consciousness, and however long she
25:19
Speaker 1: was there, we don't know. I mean, this child may
25:22
Speaker 1: have been hungry. This child may have um had urine honor.
25:28
Speaker 1: She could have been there for hours and hours. When
25:31
Speaker 1: somebody nods out on hair, when you don't know how
25:34
Speaker 1: long it's going to take for them to revive. This
25:37
Speaker 1: woman needed treatment, Okay, you know, Dr Maroney, every time
25:41
Speaker 1: I could, every time I could, for ten years in
25:46
Speaker 1: inner City Atlanta, I would try to send addicts to rehab.
25:52
Speaker 1: Sometimes they have to wait in jail for months before
25:55
Speaker 1: they could get a spot and stay paid rehab. But
25:59
Speaker 1: if they couldn't get into rehab and there was no way,
26:02
Speaker 1: no room, no bed for them that have to go
26:04
Speaker 1: to jail, there's nothing you can do about it. Uh So,
26:08
Speaker 1: I know. Typically you'd want me to feel sorry for
26:11
Speaker 1: the addict, and I hear you, and I get it,
26:14
Speaker 1: and I do, But that only goes so far with
26:17
Speaker 1: me when you've got a two year old dead girl. Maroney, Well,
26:21
Speaker 1: we needed Child Protective Services to intervene a lot sooner
26:25
Speaker 1: than what they did. They've been intervening. Come on, Drew Nelson,
26:31
Speaker 1: tell him Deanna Joseph's record. She served five years probation
26:38
Speaker 1: that this was from the first child cruelty and neglect
26:42
Speaker 1: um conviction. She was found high Police founder high wandering
26:47
Speaker 1: around a parking lot back in. Her children at the
26:51
Speaker 1: time were aged eleven and two and they were home alone.
26:54
Speaker 1: And that's not the only time. This is this the
26:57
Speaker 1: third arrest, so she could get high and the parking
27:01
Speaker 1: lot hold. On the two thousand and eight incident, mommy
27:05
Speaker 1: was arrested again. She left the children eleven and two
27:07
Speaker 1: alone at home so she could go get high in
27:09
Speaker 1: the parking lot. That was the first time. The second
27:13
Speaker 1: time she was convicted of child cruelty and neglect. This
27:16
Speaker 1: was back in she was passed out in her apartment
27:20
Speaker 1: and she had her infant son in the bathtub, in
27:24
Speaker 1: a bath and she was passed out. She just got
27:27
Speaker 1: out of jail in August of last year off of
27:29
Speaker 1: that charge. According to in j dot com, what happened
27:33
Speaker 1: in that one that drews telling you about, Dr Maroney,
27:37
Speaker 1: Mommy was convicted of child cruelty and neglect. Cops found
27:41
Speaker 1: her unconscious beside her eleven month old son, who was
27:44
Speaker 1: partially submerged in the bathtub. And that is just the
27:49
Speaker 1: tip of the iceberg. She has been in and out
27:52
Speaker 1: of jail for twenty years and she's only thirty nine. Okay,
27:57
Speaker 1: for twenty years, seven arrests that rang from heroin to
28:01
Speaker 1: cocaine to resisting a police officer, eluding a police officer
28:07
Speaker 1: after being told to stop. I mean, and this time,
28:11
Speaker 1: according to the police report, she gets high on heroin.
28:14
Speaker 1: She also has crack, and she has a daughter in
28:17
Speaker 1: the car, and it's just driving around high on heroin
28:20
Speaker 1: when she finally parks in the driveway and just passes
28:23
Speaker 1: out high. So Dr Moroney, what is that sensation? I mean,
28:29
Speaker 1: why did she let the little girl die in the car?
28:32
Speaker 1: She sat there high on heroin and as her daughter
28:37
Speaker 1: about one ft away from her died. It's not a
28:40
Speaker 1: long term high that people seek. It's oblivion and euphoria
28:47
Speaker 1: that often leads to sleep. And that's the best you
28:52
Speaker 1: can seek, and you keep getting higher doses to get
28:56
Speaker 1: there because you're tolerant and dependent. And I'm just really
29:00
Speaker 1: um torn up that there's a criminal justice system that
29:05
Speaker 1: keeps putting these children back in her care without compulsory
29:10
Speaker 1: probationary drug testing. I'm a very strong proponent of drug
29:15
Speaker 1: testing to make sure this kind of stuff doesn't happen.
29:19
Speaker 1: The last time she was in her apartment and the
29:24
Speaker 1: child was in the bathtub. That's what happened the very
29:27
Speaker 1: last time. I mean, there's been so many times it's
29:30
Speaker 1: hard to keep up with it. But the last time
29:33
Speaker 1: she was unconscious while her child. The taught that infant
29:37
Speaker 1: actually was submerged in the water. It goes off from
29:42
Speaker 1: from there. Um there were spoons and glass sing envelopes
29:48
Speaker 1: containing heroine residue. More cracked that time as well. After
29:54
Speaker 1: a hospital exam, Diana Joseph was charged with possession of
29:59
Speaker 1: a dangerous substance and endangering a child. This is what
30:02
Speaker 1: I don't understand in this case, the current case where
30:05
Speaker 1: the child is dead, Drew Nelson, The child is dead
30:10
Speaker 1: while mommy's passed out on heroin. She dies about one
30:13
Speaker 1: foot away from her. Last time, her son was one
30:17
Speaker 1: ft away from her, submerged in the water while she
30:19
Speaker 1: was high. Why is she only charged with child endangerment
30:24
Speaker 1: Because to me, this is felony child abuse or felony
30:29
Speaker 1: child endangerment and a death occurred, that's felony murder. Right now,
30:34
Speaker 1: she faces that second degree child endangerment charge, like you said, Nancy,
30:38
Speaker 1: But if when the autopsy comes back, there is the
30:41
Speaker 1: possibility that the charges could be upgraded. A felony exit
30:45
Speaker 1: from the way that the police were describing this, he
30:47
Speaker 1: was in the process of committing a felony and somebody
30:50
Speaker 1: died there go. Felony murder could be the charge she faces.
30:54
Speaker 1: As of right now, she faces the second degree child
30:57
Speaker 1: endangerment charge tenure maximum sentence and a hundred fifty dollar
31:01
Speaker 1: maximum fine. I've learned something else, Dr Maroney. Authorities say
31:06
Speaker 1: that the little girl, the two year old Todd, had
31:09
Speaker 1: no signs of blunt force trauma. Uh and they're still
31:12
Speaker 1: trying to determine the exact cause of death. It was
31:16
Speaker 1: a cool night, but Diana Joseph had the heater on.
31:22
Speaker 1: The car was parked and running for all this time.
31:26
Speaker 1: How does that factor into the autopsy? Dr Maroney, Well,
31:32
Speaker 1: if it was a child that was strapped in that
31:35
Speaker 1: was trying to get out of a chair, it's most
31:38
Speaker 1: likely strangulation. And if she had the heater on, that
31:44
Speaker 1: child was overheating and she was trying to get out
31:48
Speaker 1: of a chair because she was uncomfortable. Mommy didn't know
31:52
Speaker 1: what was happening, Mommy was unconscious, Mommy was asleep. But
31:57
Speaker 1: anytime somebody's hot, they try to get away. A young
32:03
Speaker 1: child doesn't understand open the door through the crank. It
32:06
Speaker 1: just tries to arrive and struggle out of a tight
32:11
Speaker 1: car seat. And again the head is oversized. The straps
32:15
Speaker 1: are across the chest and shoulders. As a child slips down,
32:20
Speaker 1: they pull up and it's likely asphyxiation or strangulation. You
32:28
Speaker 1: know what, um, I am not siding with the mom,
32:32
Speaker 1: even though I know she's got this drug problem. I'm
32:34
Speaker 1: siding with a little girl. The child is dead. The
32:37
Speaker 1: two year old little girl is dead. This mom has
32:40
Speaker 1: been in and out of the system for child neglect
32:44
Speaker 1: and child abuse, and right now we don't even know.
32:49
Speaker 1: It's not clear whether mommy was even being monitored by
32:53
Speaker 1: the Department of Child of Family Services. What is going
32:57
Speaker 1: on in New Jersey? Why are they taking care of
33:01
Speaker 1: their children when a mom can't do the job. I
33:06
Speaker 1: don't like this, but that is when a child has
33:08
Speaker 1: got to be placed in foster care. And I don't
33:10
Speaker 1: like foster care. But this child is dead and I
33:15
Speaker 1: can guarantee you this. We may not know the cause
33:17
Speaker 1: of death right now, but I can guarantee you this.
33:21
Speaker 1: The last thing that baby saw was mommy. Hurricane Harvey,
33:28
Speaker 1: ree King havoc throughout Texas, but there is one family
33:34
Speaker 1: in particular that is reacting very differently to Hurricane Harvey.
33:39
Speaker 1: And this is why it could destroy. The hurricane could
33:43
Speaker 1: destroy any hope of ever finding missing Texas realtor Crystal McDowell. Apparently,
33:52
Speaker 1: this beautiful young realtor goes missing just before Hurricane Harvey
33:58
Speaker 1: straight out to reporter Drew Nelson, Crime Stories contributing reporter,
34:04
Speaker 1: what happened? What do we know about her disappearance? Drew?
34:07
Speaker 1: She's been missing since Friday, It was the hours right
34:10
Speaker 1: before Hurricane Harvey hits. She's from Baytown, Texas, that's just
34:15
Speaker 1: east of Houston, and her uncle that that's her closest relative.
34:19
Speaker 1: Her parents died when she was eleven, so her uncle
34:22
Speaker 1: runs the family real estate agency, and he says that
34:25
Speaker 1: she left a message to just, you know, routine message
34:28
Speaker 1: to say that she had a couple of appointments and
34:31
Speaker 1: that's the last he ever heard from her. He went
34:33
Speaker 1: and talked to her ex husband later in the day.
34:36
Speaker 1: He um she's been staying at his home because her
34:40
Speaker 1: home has been under renovation. So Crystal has been staying
34:44
Speaker 1: with the ex husband, and her uncle said she talked
34:47
Speaker 1: he talked to the ex husband and he said that
34:51
Speaker 1: Crystal sent him a text. This is the ex husband
34:55
Speaker 1: sent him a Texas says she was coming to pick
34:56
Speaker 1: up their two young children to take to Dallas. So,
35:00
Speaker 1: even before heavy rains have devastated Houston because of Harvey,
35:05
Speaker 1: this family already suffering from a nightmare that they can't
35:09
Speaker 1: wake up from Monday Mark day four without hearing from
35:14
Speaker 1: Crystal McDowell. Now this happened just before Harvey goes down
35:20
Speaker 1: to Dr William Moroney, in light of Harvey in Texas,
35:25
Speaker 1: how is this going to affect finding Crystal this Texas realtor,
35:29
Speaker 1: or if she's dead, finding her body in the collection
35:33
Speaker 1: of evidence, this is devastating. This could literally wipe out
35:38
Speaker 1: any crime scene. If there was a crime scene, if
35:41
Speaker 1: there was a primary crime scene, a secondary crime scene,
35:44
Speaker 1: it's going to be lost in the secondary effects of
35:49
Speaker 1: finding her. If the body is found, it's gonna dependent
35:53
Speaker 1: on moisture and temperature, whether or not the body the
35:58
Speaker 1: case according to and understood protocol so that they would
36:02
Speaker 1: be able to set a time of approximate death. So
36:07
Speaker 1: but collecting evidence, this is a game changer. This is
36:10
Speaker 1: a deal breaker. You're not kidding. This is what we
36:14
Speaker 1: know about her. She's thirty eight years old. Uh, she
36:17
Speaker 1: looks like she's got long blonde hair. She was a
36:20
Speaker 1: former flight attendant for express Jet. She was already bringing
36:24
Speaker 1: in tens of thousands of dollars in revenue every month
36:28
Speaker 1: for the real estate company. Everybody loved her. She never
36:33
Speaker 1: missed an appointment. But catch this, she had appointments the
36:37
Speaker 1: day she went missing and never showed up. In my mind,
36:42
Speaker 1: Dr Moroney, that's where you start with your timeline, agree
36:46
Speaker 1: or disagree. I totally agree. She always is prompt in
36:50
Speaker 1: returning messages, whether from a client or a family member. Always, always.
36:55
Speaker 1: That's why the family knew something was very wrong. Now
36:59
Speaker 1: from my unders standing, straight back out to Drew Nelson
37:02
Speaker 1: reporting on the case. Cops searched her home but found
37:06
Speaker 1: nothing of any significance. They also got to her computer
37:11
Speaker 1: and it looked like some files have been destroyed, which
37:16
Speaker 1: piqued my interest. But it looks like that may have
37:19
Speaker 1: happened because of a factory reset, so you know, that's
37:24
Speaker 1: nothing nefarious at all. The woman, Crystal McDowell always active
37:30
Speaker 1: on social media. She has not posted on her personal
37:33
Speaker 1: page or her professional page. Since the same day she
37:36
Speaker 1: missed those appointments. Drew. Now, when you say factory reset
37:42
Speaker 1: on her computer, what that means is somebody went in
37:45
Speaker 1: there and wiped it out intentionally. Oh my goodness. Okay, see,
37:50
Speaker 1: I didn't know that factory reset. I thought that meant
37:54
Speaker 1: something completely different. Drew It school me, what does that mean?
37:59
Speaker 1: Factory reset. That's taking your computer, your smartphone, your tablet,
38:03
Speaker 1: takes it back to zero like it's a brand new
38:06
Speaker 1: except the police can go in there and find what's
38:09
Speaker 1: been wiped out. It's it's as though it's been kind
38:11
Speaker 1: of wiped over um with paint, but then you can
38:15
Speaker 1: just kind of wipe the paint away and see what
38:17
Speaker 1: was there. So now, okay, I did not know, Drew Nelson,
38:22
Speaker 1: that that is what factory reset meant. Uh. Dr Moroney,
38:28
Speaker 1: especially in the real estate business. I doubt very seriously
38:32
Speaker 1: she reset her phone and her computer because those are
38:36
Speaker 1: all of her contacts. Somebody's trying to cover something up,
38:41
Speaker 1: some recent contact, some phone numbers, some emails being wiped
38:45
Speaker 1: out on purpose. This is forensic evidence that this needs
38:49
Speaker 1: to be recreated. Crystal McDowell is described as five four ways,
38:55
Speaker 1: about a hundred and twenty pounds with blonde, long blonde hair.
38:58
Speaker 1: It comes about onto her elbows. Now, authorities are not
39:03
Speaker 1: sharing information, uh, regarding what the files may have contained
39:09
Speaker 1: that they are trying to salvage right now. But I
39:12
Speaker 1: think it it's very foreboding that the day she you know,
39:15
Speaker 1: how realtors live and breathe, They rise or fall on
39:19
Speaker 1: those appointments, she missed two of them, which she had
39:22
Speaker 1: never done before. You know. Back to Drew Nelson, reporter
39:27
Speaker 1: on the story, Drew, what do we know about her
39:30
Speaker 1: personal life? Does she have children? Now? She has two
39:33
Speaker 1: children with her ex husband and they are still staying
39:37
Speaker 1: with her ex husband right now, Wait a minute. Ex husband, Now,
39:43
Speaker 1: he has not been named as a suspect. He has
39:45
Speaker 1: not been named as a person of interest at all.
39:48
Speaker 1: I'm just asking on my own what do we know
39:51
Speaker 1: about him? Now? The uncle has been has been talking
39:56
Speaker 1: and he says that the after the asked, he heard
40:00
Speaker 1: from Crystal. Later in the day he called and spoke
40:03
Speaker 1: to the ex husband, and the ex husband said that
40:06
Speaker 1: Crystal cinema text to say that she was on their
40:09
Speaker 1: way to pick up their two young children to take
40:12
Speaker 1: to Dallas. And now her uncle is saying that Crystal
40:16
Speaker 1: never said anything about making plans to evacuate to Dallas
40:19
Speaker 1: for the storm. Wait a minute, Wait a minute. Was
40:22
Speaker 1: this when they knew Harvey was coming, but before Harvey
40:25
Speaker 1: had hit? This was just a few hours before the
40:27
Speaker 1: storm hit. I find it very hard to believe Dr
40:30
Speaker 1: Maroney that she would evacuate and leave her children behind
40:34
Speaker 1: after the ex husband is saying she was planning to
40:37
Speaker 1: take them with her. I don't believe that, Dr Maroney.
40:40
Speaker 1: That's impossible. Mother's instinct, intuition would never allow that to happen.
40:45
Speaker 1: That just families don't do that in emergencies. So what now,
40:49
Speaker 1: Dr Maroney, what should they be doing now to try
40:51
Speaker 1: to find Crystal McDowall, guys, please help us find this
40:54
Speaker 1: Texas mom. She goes missing just before Harvey hits. Tip
40:59
Speaker 1: Law for Chambers County, p. D. Four oh nine to
41:04
Speaker 1: give us some advice. Doctor, We need forensic I T specialists,
41:09
Speaker 1: people that have been trained by the FBI or the
41:12
Speaker 1: Texas Bureau of Investigations of GEORGI Old Bureau of Investigations,
41:17
Speaker 1: or maybe military to reconstruct some of the resets. Dr
41:21
Speaker 1: William Moroney joining US Medical Examiner out of Madison Heights.
41:25
Speaker 1: A lot of focus has been placed on Harvey, which
41:28
Speaker 1: I understand, but Crystal's family is more focused on her
41:33
Speaker 1: activity on the Thursday and the Friday before she goes missing.
41:38
Speaker 1: They are desperate for anyone that may have seen or
41:41
Speaker 1: spoken with Crystal McDowell. Crystals Serat McDowell, Mother, Texas realtor
41:50
Speaker 1: Missing Tipline, Chambers County p D Police Department, four oh
41:56
Speaker 1: nine to six seven twenty five hundred, Drew Drew Nelson.
42:02
Speaker 1: What more can you tell me? The family has contacted
42:06
Speaker 1: the FBI, They've contacted Baytown Police, They've contacted the sheriff's
42:10
Speaker 1: office that they're they're all busy with the with the
42:14
Speaker 1: flood with Hurricane Harvey, the FBI, their office is flooded
42:18
Speaker 1: in right now. So the family is frustrated beyond belief.
42:22
Speaker 1: That their cousin has been saying that the police are
42:24
Speaker 1: just too busy to look for Crystal and too busy
42:27
Speaker 1: to look for her black Mercedes Benz uh and they've
42:29
Speaker 1: had several reports of abandoned cars, abandoned Mercedes Ben's that
42:34
Speaker 1: the police can't check out because they're just too busy
42:36
Speaker 1: saving people. Here's the other thing, uh, and again the
42:40
Speaker 1: husband the ax has not been named at all. What
42:44
Speaker 1: about this theory? Drew Nelson. She had an opening and
42:49
Speaker 1: a closing that day. Have the people that she was
42:53
Speaker 1: supposed to meet been checked out? Because I recalled distinctly, Oh,
42:58
Speaker 1: I'll never forget this case. This realtor, a mom had
43:03
Speaker 1: one showing. She was on her way home. She was
43:05
Speaker 1: on the phone with her husband and they were deciding
43:08
Speaker 1: who's going to pick up something for dinner. She was
43:10
Speaker 1: working late, nobody had time to cook. Boy, I've been
43:12
Speaker 1: there and they make plans about whatever they were going
43:16
Speaker 1: to pick up. She had one showing left. It was
43:19
Speaker 1: starting to get dark. She went to the showing. She
43:22
Speaker 1: was never saying alive again. She was murdered by some
43:26
Speaker 1: guy there at the empty home. That's what happened. So
43:31
Speaker 1: what about that those people been checked out? Drew Nelson.
43:35
Speaker 1: The opening and the closing that day. That takes us
43:38
Speaker 1: back to what's on her computer. Police would have to
43:42
Speaker 1: recover her schedule to find out the people who were
43:45
Speaker 1: on those two appointments. Check out those names, check out
43:48
Speaker 1: those people and find them. Now we don't know if
43:51
Speaker 1: police have had a chance to talk to them yet,
43:54
Speaker 1: but this goes back to the fact that they're so
43:56
Speaker 1: busy with the hurricane. This has just been put on
43:58
Speaker 1: the back burner because there so busy with saving people's lives,
44:04
Speaker 1: pulling people off of cars, off the off of their roofs,
44:07
Speaker 1: that they they're just not able to give this the
44:10
Speaker 1: attention that it needs. Nancy, Well, this is another thing.
44:13
Speaker 1: We know the children, the two children are at the
44:16
Speaker 1: excess home, and she hasn't contacted them. Yeah, here this
44:21
Speaker 1: is what I also what I know According to her cousin,
44:24
Speaker 1: Melissa Cherry, she says Crystal had canceled a walk through
44:29
Speaker 1: earlier that morning. Does that mean Crystal call and made
44:33
Speaker 1: the cancelation or she didn't show up. The cousin goes
44:37
Speaker 1: on to say, this is not a storm thing. Crystal
44:40
Speaker 1: had appointments the day before and that day. We haven't
44:44
Speaker 1: heard from her since that morning. Um, she was driving,
44:49
Speaker 1: as you said, a black Mercedes, but because of the flooding,
44:52
Speaker 1: the family has not been able to get out and
44:54
Speaker 1: look for it. Um. Another thing that I know, she
44:57
Speaker 1: hasn't tried to contact her children. That's bad. Okay. Also
45:02
Speaker 1: we know that cousin says she's gotten numerous calls about
45:06
Speaker 1: abandoned Mercedes and some costs to people claiming to have
45:10
Speaker 1: Crystal and trying to extore money. This has got to
45:14
Speaker 1: be pure hell, the uncle keeps saying, talking about the
45:19
Speaker 1: helpless feeling he has, nobody can do anything about it.
45:25
Speaker 1: So where does it stand right now? The tag number
45:28
Speaker 1: H happy B brother B brother black Mercedes H happy
45:34
Speaker 1: be brother be brother sixty three fifty one. Where does
45:39
Speaker 1: it stand now? Drew? The last that her uncle heard
45:44
Speaker 1: anything about her was when he talked to her ex husband,
45:48
Speaker 1: the man who still has their children. Crystal has been
45:50
Speaker 1: staying with her ex husband because her house has been
45:53
Speaker 1: under renovation. Uh. The x husband says, the last thing
45:58
Speaker 1: that he heard from her was that she was on
45:59
Speaker 1: the way to pick up their two young children to
46:01
Speaker 1: take the Dallas. But the uncle, he questions whether she
46:05
Speaker 1: ever sent those messages. Now I'm quoting him here. He says,
46:09
Speaker 1: we aren't sure she sent those messages to him. Well,
46:12
Speaker 1: you'd have to have for for insta expert to determine that.
46:16
Speaker 1: Tipline everybody four zero nine seven. Amidst all the pain
46:22
Speaker 1: and misery and suffering happening in our Texas right now,
46:29
Speaker 1: let's don't forget Crystal McDowell, Nancy Grace Crime Stories, signing
46:35
Speaker 1: off goodbye friend,